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When the People You Love Don't Get Along: Navigating Family Conflict · Still Well Podcast

• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, my friends, and welcome back to another episode of Still Well Podcast.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: I am your host, Brooke Stillwell, and I'm so glad you are joining me for another conversation about all things midlife, living with faith, living with vitality, productivity, and very purposely in this next phase of life.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: And this week, I am bringing to you another conversation from an email that I got from one of our listeners.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: Again, thank you so much for all of those who have reached out to me.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: I think this conversation in particular is probably going to strike a nerve with many of you because it struck a nerve with me.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: We have a viewer that reached out to run something past me that was going on in her personal life.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: She's been watching the podcast since back before when it was life after kids.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: And it resonated with me, not necessarily through the same exact thing that she's going through, but I think that the general principle applies to many of us.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I am guessing that it is something that most of you, and certainly me, have dealt with in some way, shape, or form in our life.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so I emailed her back.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: We spoke back and forth just a bit shortly, and I asked her for her permission to share her conversation and her story.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: And she said so graciously that if it would help anybody else, she would be more than happy for me to share it.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: I am not going to use her name.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: We'll just call her Kay, just to keep her and her personal life protected.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: But I want to really jump into this conversation and just talk through this.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then again, once you hear the conversation, uh, I would love to get feedback from all of you.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: But Kay wrote in to me, I'm just gonna grab my iPad so I can read this to you, and then we can just jump right in.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: So she says, question.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: My husband got very angry and yelled at my mom over the weekend.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: I was there, it was just the three of us.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: I am extremely embarrassed and ashamed of it all.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: My mom, thankfully, is a Christian woman of faith, and said it's okay.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: She said he has some past resentment and he needed to get it out.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate her kindness.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: My husband has said he just doesn't want anything to do with my mom and will be civil, but doesn't want to know how she's doing or what she's doing, etc.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: I told him, of course I respect that, but how do I navigate this with my mom and my husband?
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: That is a loaded question.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm gonna just take a guess that there are many of us that have dealt with, listen, if it's not like son-in-law, mother-in-law type deals can be really, really tricky, right?
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: Any type of in-law relationships can be tricky.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: Daughter-in-law and mother-in-law relationships can be tricky.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen so many different things with family, particularly with in-laws.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: But even beyond that, you guys, family can just be tricky.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: It can be really tricky to navigate.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there's a culture today of just writing people off and writing off family members, in particular, under the lens of toxic and safe and healthy boundaries.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't judge anyone.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to, I don't want to judge anyone who's listening because we're all walking a different path.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: But I fear that sometimes we may jump to do that too quickly before we try to navigate a situation with a lot of grace and love uh and even forgiveness.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I can just say as we jump into this conversation about Kay and what she wrote in, that I it was actually good timing for me because I'm just coming back.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: Just got back two nights ago from a trip home to outside of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, where my family is, celebrating my youngest nephew's first birthday.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I stayed at my parents' house and my brothers and my nieces and my nephews, my sister-in-laws were all around.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, those situations can be a little bit tricky and sometimes very stressful.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: When you put a lot of different personalities into a room and there's in-laws involved and there's big personalities involved, there can be some stress and drama.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: That is 100% sure, especially when there's many people involved.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: Now, in a situation like Kay, it was just the three of them.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: And probably from what she explains and describes, uh, it was better that it was just the three of them because, you know, when there's a big group and things get a little dicey, then there can be creation for a lot more drama.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, families are tough.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm I'm coming back from the weekend just taking a step back.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: And even in light of Kay reaching out, how do you navigate these situations?
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: Just remembering and reminding myself that no family is perfect.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: No, not one family.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: The more that I listen to women, moms, people in general, the more I'm come to find out, like if we're really real and honest with each other, no family is perfect.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: There's some sort of stress or angst or or drama or something that goes on in in the midst of every family.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to start this conversation by saying that because I know for myself, for a very long time, I held my family to the standard that like nobody was gonna be able to hit.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: I've talked to you about this before, these really high expectations where I went everybody to act perfectly and everybody to be kind to everyone, and everyone always say and do the right thing and never be offensive or hurtful.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, me sitting in a room watching how other people are responding or how they're feeling and what are they thinking and how can I help?
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just the fact of the matter is we're all different people.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: None of us are perfect.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: We all handle things differently, we all perceive things in different ways, and sometimes we just have to extend grace to each other and know that our family is what it is.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: We're likely not going to change a person, right?
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: So in Kay's conversation there, which we're gonna get into a little more specifically here in a couple minutes, she's likely not to change uh her husband, but we can work on ourselves.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's sometimes what it comes down to is that we're not gonna be able to necessarily change other people in the situation.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm coming home from my trip to Pennsylvania going, we're all the same.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody's the same.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing has changed, nobody has changed.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: We all have our personalities, we all act and interact and do the way we've done.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody's going to change.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm certainly not going to change them.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: So then what am I going to do?
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like in in case situation, what do we do?
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: Are we just going to throw our hands up and say, forget it, I'm not going to deal with it.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's too stressful.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's annoying.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's this or that.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: I it's high stress.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's drama.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't want to be a part of it.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: We don't want to do that either because they're our family.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: And family is the only family we're going to get.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I believe it's very important to maintain those connections and to maintain that community with our family.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, obviously, I know that some of you listening may be in very difficult or hard situations, maybe even abusive situations.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: So please don't mistake me.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm talking in most of the majority of us, is just stressful, can be sort of dramatic type things that, you know, just ruffle our feathers, if that makes sense.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I also want to say that I did, when I reached out to Kay the first time, you know, say that let's just take a step back for one second, because in this situation with Kay or with any of you, if you're ever in a situation with a family member, whoever that might be, that is physically abusive or overly, you know, emotionally abusive or whatever that looks like, you then need to do what you need to do to keep yourself safe and whoever else is involved safe and protected.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a different conversation than what we're having here today.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: But in Kay's situation, when she wrote to me, it did break my heart because, and I I told her that, because she's in a really tricky situation.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure we've all been there where we're in between two people who we really care about that are not getting along.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: They don't necessarily perhaps even like each other.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm have that situation in different areas of my life.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then they have a fight and explosion and blow up.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: And then how do you navigate that?
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: Because you love both people.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: And if you took a step out and you talk to each person, there's always, in any argument or in any confrontation, or in any relationship, there's always two sides to the story.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's something very important that we have to keep in mind that she could sit down and talk to her husband and he could explain one thing and her mother could give a very different story.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so keep that in mind as well, that there's always two sides to a story and try when possible to be as neutral as you can.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: That can be really difficult, especially if you resonate with more or connect more or are more like one of the parties that are involved, that can be a tricky thing.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: So there's that.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: But the first thing that I said to Kay, and I think this is important in any situation, is to take a step back for a minute and where in the situation is there any place that you can be grateful for or have gratitude with?
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: And that might sound silly in a hard, hard thing like this, but in Kay's situation, when we take a step back and look at what she wrote, like she can be so grateful that her mother is a Christian woman of faith and that she was choosing to handle the situation with grace and with kindness and give her husband a lot of grace.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, imagine that situation could have been a lot worse if her mother had come and said, He's ridiculous, I don't want to see you or him anymore until he straightens up or whatever.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: She could have made that far worse.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: And there are many different ways that that could play out.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure for some of you it has played out that way.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: So let's take a step back in this situation, and in whatever situation we are in, and when there is a place to see a good part of the bad, let's acknowledge that first.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: So thank goodness her mother is like that, and then chose to handle the situation in that way because my goodness, when a mother is upset and the in-law is upset, and there's boy, that can be a really tricky situation.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: So if any of you are listening and are dealing with that right now, I just my heart goes out to you because I've been in those situations too, and it's very can be very tough and very stressful for all members of the family.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so I would just encourage you, I encourage Kay and I will encourage you as well to remember, and I think I talked about this a little bit last week, that you have to look at the situation and ask yourself, what are the things that I can control and what are the things that I cannot control?
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because you will always see those in a situation.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: And there are going to be things in a situation or circumstances that you cannot control.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: And you have to try your best to let go of those things.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: So in this example, and in almost all situations where there's interpersonal or interfamily fighting or friction or whatever that looks like, you know, this could even be, honestly, between your adult kids.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've seen that play out in other people's lives too, where two siblings are fighting and the mom is heartbroken.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: So this can apply to many situations.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: So when we take a step back and say, okay, well, what am I not in control of?
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: First of all, you are not absolutely not in control of the way somebody else is going to act.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to take that off of the table right away.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: In this situation, in particular with Kay, she is not in control of how her mother chooses to act.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: She is not in control of how her husband chooses to act.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: And in those moments where she was feeling embarrassment and shame, I told her in an email right up front, like that that feeling of shame is not from God.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: She was not responsible for the way her husband acted.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's not, that's not a Kay issue.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's her husband's issue.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you're in a situation like that, remind yourself that you are not the issue.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: The two parties may be the issue, but you are not in control of them.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: You can't control how they're gonna act.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: You cannot control whether or not they're going to forgive each other.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: The only thing in this situation, very often in these types of situations, that you can control is yourself.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: You can control how you choose to respond.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: You can control your emotions.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: And you may say, well, no, I can't control my emotions.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: They just get away from me.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: You can control your emotions.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: And believe me, this has been a big struggle for me, and I've always been of the mind that sometimes you just can't control your emotions.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: When we start to control and take our thoughts under control and give them to God, we can start to control our emotions.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: So we can control our emotions.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: We can be aware of our emotions and we can choose to not act on them.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: If our emotions are, if we're getting upset, if we're getting angry, we can choose to zip our lip, to not act on something, to not say something that is gonna make the situation worse.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: We can choose to not let that situation stress us out.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: And you may go, well, that's definitely not happened.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: How is that possible?
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: Believe me, I know how you feel because I spent years being overly, overly stressed and upset about how other members in my circle, my family or friends were acting or behaving or they're fighting amongst each other.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it was a lot of stress that, like time that I can't get back, and stress that was unnecessary because at the end of the day, there was not anything that I could do.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't specifically change the situation.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: So where you can, you control yourself.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: That fighting, that inner personal, whatever's going on there, can only get to you and can only stress you out if you allow it to, because it's not directed right at you.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's not directed personally to you.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a personal attack.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: So remember that.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: You can't, you can't control what other people are going to do.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: You can only control yourself and how you choose to respond to something.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: And nobody can stress you out or make you upset unless you allow them to do that.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that sounds a lot easier said than done, but I guys have been working on this for so, so, so, so long.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I literally just in this last year that I've been spending more and more time in prayer, again, I keep harping on this, and more time in quiet meditation with the Lord and asking, praying for these things, praying for guidance from the Holy Spirit.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, a good prayer in these situations is to pray to the Lord to help you to see things the way they really are and not as they appear to be, so that you don't make it more dramatic and bigger than it needs to be.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: To pray to God to take your mind and give him your mind and help him to think your thoughts.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, in another prayer that I have been praying that I was actively able to practice this weekend when I was away, and I think something in response to Kay's situation as well.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I just read this, I read so many books, but I think I just I read Torin Wells' book, Joy Bomb.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it was in this book where he was saying that, you know, the the Jesus' life is the perfect combination of truth and grace.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: And can we, as people of faith, choose to walk in the truth of people's life, but do it and show up with a lot of grace?
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so I've been praying for that.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: I've been praying, Lord, help me to walk in the truth of other people's lives, but to do it with a lot of grace.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so that means like in these situations, when life is hard and messy, when people are not doing the things that we would hope they would do, when your husband doesn't respond in the way that you hoped he would, when your brothers are fighting amongst each other and you don't know what to do, or your kids are fighting and how what is that gonna look like?
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: Can we show up in the truth of their lives and the truth of their personalities and how they respond?
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: And can we still act in grace and in love and in mercy?
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a tricky thing, that's a hard thing to do, but it's often very necessary with family members is to be able to do that.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I encourage Kay and I will encourage you as well that nagging somebody or bringing a fight or a situation or a circumstance up over and over again will often backfire on you and will probably end up creating more drama than any good, especially if you're in a situation I've just seen, I know with my husband, like he does not want to be told what to do, he doesn't want to be nagged.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: And if I start to go down that path because I'm really hoping he'll do something, the worst thing I can do is ask him to do it or ask him to behave in a certain way or to whatever it is over and over again.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: That typically almost always backfires.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: The best thing you can probably do for a situation like Kay or in a situation when you're in interpersonal issues is not continue to bring it up, right?
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: We can be in the background and we can be praying over those people and we can be praying for the situation, and we can be praying for heart change and for God's grace and for people's circumstances and outlooks to change and their behaviors to change, but we can't necessarily do that ourselves and bringing it up and telling them what they need to do is very often going to backfire.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: It is very often smart to not give advice or to tell somebody how to behave or act unless they have asked you for your opinion or your advice.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: And that's tricky, especially if it comes to adult kids, right?
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you see them doing something to each other that's not right, I mean, I guess sometimes as moms we need to step in, but we have to be really discerning there.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: And very often, we probably shouldn't give the advice unless we're asked.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: And when it comes to our spouses, I find that more often than not, unless they're asking or unless it's something that they can really be doing somebody else harm or them harm, it's it's often smart to pray for them and to be open to speaking to them anytime that they need, but not necessarily to be telling them what to do.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: That usually doesn't work out to anybody's advantage.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: So keep that in mind too.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, in these situations, I think for Kay, you know, as she was saying, the embarrassment and the shame, again, that that's not that's something that either the enemy is putting on us or we're putting on ourselves.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: In a situation like that, she did she didn't do anything.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: There's a fight going on, there's other circumstances going on, it is not her fault.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: Again, it's the other people's issue, not a you issue.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so you have to try to remove yourself from that and take a step back from it.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's a very tricky and hard thing to do because when you're so close to people that you love, it's hard to not feel, you know, if your husband or your child or a best friend behaves in a way to somebody else that you don't necessarily deem appropriate, that's a hard thing because you're so close to that person that it feels feels like it falls back on you.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: But it doesn't necessarily, each person is responsible for their own actions.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so we have to remember that.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: We have to remember that we're not responsible for other people's actions.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, this is the other thing that I find that I struggle with, and I'm gonna guess Kay has struggled with or did as she was writing this email, and maybe some of you have too.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this comes naturally for us as mothers, is that we want to be the fixer of the situation.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: We want to make things better.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: If you have a big heart, if you're high in empathy, you probably feel a lot of load.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: I know I tend to do that.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: I feel the load of wanting to fix the situation.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: I feel the load of, again, as I stated, like watching people and how they're interacting and what they're thinking and how can I make it better, or how I can how can I diffuse this possible thing from happening?
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: And the truth of the matter is you can take a lot of stress and weight off your shoulders if you realize that those problems aren't yours to solve.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: And very often, if you're feeling a heavy, heavy weight or heavy, heavy stress or anxiety over a situation or an argument or an issue, it's likely because it wasn't yours to solve and it's not yours to solve in the first place.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: You are not the savior of the people in your life.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: You are not the fixer of the whole problem.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's Jesus' job.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: You're not God, He is.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I think very often we can get focused on like me, me, me, me, me, and I've got to do something, and this falls on me, and they must, you know, I I'm partially responsible, so I've got to step in, I've got to this, I've got a that.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: And that's just very often not true.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of times the best thing we can do is take a step back from the situation and love people and pray for people, but let God be God and let God do what God does.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that that can be really hard.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: That can be really hard, especially if you like to be in control and you are a problem solver and a problem fixer.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so many moms are.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: So to realize that is just a really important thing.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, the other thing I think that we need to remember in these situations when things are hard or where there's family drama or there's fighting, you know, a really important thing to remember is that we often just have to give things time.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's very, very easy to get caught up in a situation and feel the tension of the drama and the stress and the fighting.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: But very often, if you can be patient, and a lot of times these situations are a lesson in patience.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: So just take a step breath, take a step back, catch your breath, and be a little patient and know that things are gonna work out.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: Put it in God's hands and trust, again, that He works all things together for our good.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: In that situation with Kay, hopefully and prayerfully, over the next couple weeks, her husband will have a time to process and calm down.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: Her mom will be open and willing to talk.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, things will look a little bit different in a couple days, a couple weeks, it could be even months.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: But very often it just takes some time for people to process things and to calm down.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, anger can be a tough thing at the start, but very often, I mean, I've had many instances where relationships just seem like, oh my gosh, I don't know how this is ever gonna get fixed.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I'm I want to be forgiving and the other person wants to be forgiving, but there's a lot of hurt feelings, things were said that shouldn't have been said, and I just think this is not gonna be mended or it will never get back to the way it was.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes relationships don't.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: They don't get back to the way they were originally.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: But I have found in my life, and I'm sure you have seen as well, as the as you uh go through life, that time can very often, I mean, God is the healer of all wounds, but time can heal those things too.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes those things just take times to work through and process through.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I would encourage you, if you're in a situation that just, you know, recently happened and it's really high stress, as Kay was in, to just give it some time to take a step back and remember that you're not the one that's in control here to give it to God and to give it some time.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: That can be very important and very helpful too.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: And then the other thing is, as we were talking about, focus on the things you can control.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: You can focus on being a really good example of kindness and love to the people that are involved.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I find myself doing that more and more with my family.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: I can't control how people are going to behave or act, but I can control how I'm gonna love them and how I'm gonna show up and the example that I'm gonna set.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so I encourage Kay in that too, that you can choose in this situation to love your mom and to be open-hearted with her and to even, you know, be open and honest if you're feeling bad about how your husband or the person reacted.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: You can choose to be a loving and kind person.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: And you can choose to be that way to your husband as well.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: You can choose to show up well.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: You can choose to lead by example and just and just be an example of love for the parties involved.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes that's the best and the only thing that you can do, frankly.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: So that can be an important thing too.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: The other thing is.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: If you're in a situation like this.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I I don't know if I have to bring this up and mention it, but I think that I probably do because there are times that I need to hear this as well in my own circumstance in life, especially when it comes to family.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: Try in these situations, try with your family not to gossip or create more drama around it.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's just a big thing.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, the the the Bible talks about this too.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that we can often make excuses for the gossiping that we do, like we just need good advice, or we need to tell the other person because we want them to pray, or, you know, it's not gossip by just telling them the truth of what happened.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: The fact is, whatever label you give it, you can still be gossiping and creating more drama.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: And the Bible calls us not to do that, and especially within family, that is a very important thing.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, so I try to keep in mind to not say something to somebody else about another person that you wouldn't say right to their face.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because, you know, the chances of that getting back to the person are very good.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: But secondarily, I remember my pastor, and this was just a couple weeks ago, saying that gossip is such a hurtful sin because whoever you're talking to, when you gossip about someone else, it can change the way that person sees the person you're gossiping about.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: It can cause them to have a heart change with them and to look at them through different lenses.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: And we are all children of God.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so you're putting down another person that was created in God's image, and it's not an okay thing to do.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's just it's not okay.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: So remember that even when it seems like, you know, maybe you're in a situation where, you know, you have a really close sibling and you're talking to them about what the other sibling did or whatever it is, try the best you can not to do that.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: I will say that gets really hard when you're talking to your siblings and it's about your parents, doesn't it?
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: And mom or dad, if you're listening, I apologize, but it's just so funny to well, this is a total sidetrack and side note, but like to get older and to watch your parents getting older and then to talk to your brothers about what they're seeing too, and just like little things that your maybe parents have always done that are, you know, just silly things, or we all annoy each other in some ways.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: But to talk about and and just kind of chuckle about that or giggle with your your siblings, it's just it's an interesting dynamic.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's a really interesting thing, or just yeah, I'm sure you all are experiencing that too.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: But there again, like life is short, right?
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: This is the thing.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like when it comes to our family, life is short.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: And we're all getting older, and our parents especially are getting older.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just these situations are really tough, I think, especially because the more you love somebody and the more they mean to you, the harder those things become, the trickier it becomes to navigate.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I can sense that in the email that Kay sent, you know, she loves her mom, but she loves her husband.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, like when you love people and you have people close to you, you want everybody to get along.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, that's a really tricky and tough thing.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, it it the patience, as I said, and remember it's not your problem, it's your problem.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then another thing is I I think we need to remember, and I talked about this last week, that God is working all things together for our good, even in these difficult situations.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: And to just see these situations or stressful circumstances or the interfamily fighting or whatever it is that you're going through at the time is an opportunity for you to practice leaning into God, for asking Him for strength, to practice letting go.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: Often these difficult circumstances teach us that we can't navigate and do life on our own.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that's what we need to know from the start.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think we get into real trouble in our own lives when we focus too much on self-help because it's all about self.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: And we're not asking God to move enough, and we're not allowing him to move in us and to do the work and to acknowledge that it's his strength, not ours.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: And in situations when there's, you know, bickering or fighting or drama between family members, or whether it's with you with a family member or family members that you're watching in Kay's case, her husband and her mother, it could be your kids, whatever it is, to remember that we need to lean on God and to get through these moments.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: We can't, we can't do it on our own.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: We have to look up.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's a perfect time to pray more, to spend more time with God, to trust him in these situations, to ask him to be the author and perfecter of our faith and to remember to be diligent in prayer because God is the healer.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: He's not just a physical healer, he's not just heals us spiritually, he is the healer of relationships, and he can heal any relationship.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: He can certainly heal Kay and her husband and her mother's relationship.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: And those are tricky things, they're hard things, but we have to remember again, and I reminded myself and I continue to remind myself that nobody's perfect.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody's perfect, least of all me, not you.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: Kay's not perfect, her husband's not perfect, her mother's not perfect.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: We have to remember that and we have to show up with more grace.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: When we set too high of expectations, and I talked about this last week, but I'll continue to say it because it's such a lesson, even that I'm currently learning, that when we set high expectations for other people, we're often just let down because the expectations were too high.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so instead of doing that, can we lower our expectations for the people that we love that are around us and expect more of ourselves?
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: Can we, when there's inner fighting among family, can we lower the expectations of the way we think it should be and call ourselves to a higher place where we can love both parties, where we can, you know, if asked advice, speak in love.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: If we can remember to pray, to ask for discernment for when we should speak and when we should give advice and when we should be quiet.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's a tricky thing.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the Bible says that the mouth, the tongue, is a very powerful tool.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: The words that we use can be very powerful.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll encourage you to remember that the Bible says to be slow to anger, slow to speak, and quick to listen.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: Slow to anger, quick to speak.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: No, slow to anger, slow to speak, quick to listen.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: I will get you, I'll put in the show notes that scripture because it's a really important one.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really important in this situation.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: As a matter of fact, while we're on here, I might just look it up so you can have it, because that is something and I I wish now in hindsight it just came to me that I had said that to Kay, because in these situations, that is sometimes the best advice that we can give ourselves.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: Peace.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: Give me a second here.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I have it here, just took a second to look it up on my iPad.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: But this is the description right here.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: I just looked it up for you.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: James 1, 19 to 20, and this is the NIVR New International Version.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to anger, because human anger does not produce the righteousness that God desires.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: So in these situations when emotions are running high and you were feeling embarrassed or shame or anger or whatever it is, we need to remember to be slow to speak, slow to become anger and quick to listen.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: And you might say, well, in that situation with Kay, well, you know, somebody should have told her husband that.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: Well, maybe, maybe, but that's an example of us holding high expectations on somebody else and, you know, expecting things that are out of our control.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: So we can't control how other people are going to be.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: We can't control what their anger is going to look like.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: We can't control what they'll choose to do, but we can choose in that situation what we will choose to do.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes the best thing that we can do is to be very slow to speak and quick to listen.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: Because when we jump off or jump in or start to put our own opinions in, that can go south really quickly.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so we need to be discerning about that when we need to be just quiet and listen, when we need to zip our lip and hold space for the other parties to feel their feelings, you know, and there's something to be said too at the same time for sharing how we're feeling.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I don't, I don't think that, you know, in a situation like that where your um husband having a hard time with your mother and you're watching it all happen and your heart is is breaking, you know, there's nothing wrong to it with expressing your feelings.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: There's nothing wrong with sitting down with your spouse if you believe it will be received well.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: And even if not, like there's nothing wrong with expressing how you feel.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you don't obviously we don't want to do that to manipulate or to get what we want or to make the other person feel bad, but to share how it affected you, um, to talk through your feelings, to share what's important, to let the other person know that your mom is an important person in their life.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, maybe you need to even talk through and set some ground rules of what that's gonna look like.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, in this situation for Kay, my mom is a really important part of my life.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna stop having a relationship with her.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: And my biggest hope is that you will find a way to get along with her and to mend this because I love you both very much.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, sometimes the missing piece of these things also is I just got done telling you to be slow to speak.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: But after the fact, when emotions are lessened and there's not anger in a high-stakes situation, after the fact, you know, sometimes we need more communication and we need to do that in a loving and kind and gentle way.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's where we need to ask for discernment.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: I find in a lot of my situations that again, talking is not necessarily gonna change the other party.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: So sometimes it's wasted breath and sometimes it can make things worse.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: Again, the only thing you can control is yourself, but that's not the case with every relationship and with every family.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes what really needs to happen is to sit down and talk and love, to talk that out.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: And that may not look like you talking to both parties, again, because you aren't necessarily responsible for that, but it might mean you talking in this situation, if we use that as an example, you know, taking time to be straightforward and but in a very loving and kind way to talk to your spouse about how you're feeling and how you perceive the situation.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's okay too.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: And we can't always in these situations assume that the other people know how we're feeling.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: We can't just assume.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think we can get into really difficult situations when, especially like with our spouses, we just assume that they know how we feel or assume that they know what we're thinking and they don't act in the way that we deem appropriate when really what's going on is they didn't have any idea what we were thinking or feeling, and we didn't share it.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: We just expected them to know.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: So sometimes what's lacking in relationships is communication.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that doesn't mean like screaming and yelling, or how could you do that?
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: And why don't you see things my way?
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: But that just means, you know, being real and being vulnerable, but doing it in a kind and gentle manner, right?
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: We think about the spirit, the fruit of the spirits, this kindness, behaving and acting in your relationships and in your family with kindness and gentleness and goodness and love and patience and self-control and peace, like those are the things that we need to bring to the table when we have these interactions with our family members and those that we love.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I think when we can set that example, as I said earlier, when we can be the person that's acting kind and self-controlled and gentle and in love, then the people around us will be a lot more apt to do that.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: But we have to hold ourselves to a higher standard.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: We have to expect more of ourselves.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: And again, we can't, we we don't show up in those ways.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: We can't show up that well if we're not relying on God because we it's not in us.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: We can't do it.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: And the Bible is very clear about that that if you want to bear the fruit, the vine has to stay connected to the branches.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: So we're the vine, but we've got to stay connected to the branch, which is Jesus.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: And if we're not firm and rooted in him and looking to him to bear that fruit, we we're not going to.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's just we're imperfect.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: We're we're fallible.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: We're not gonna get it right.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I found in my life that the more that I rely on Jesus, the more I ask him to fill me with more of himself, the better I navigate every aspect of my life.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so again, these hard times are just really great opportunities for us to lean in to him and to ask him for wisdom and for guidance or fruit of the spirit to fill us with so much of himself that there isn't room left for anything else, right?
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like I want to be the person that walks into the room and just is so full of God's joy and light that it it exudes from me that people can't help but notice.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's not always an easy thing to do.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: And certainly in these trying situations, I'm pointing to my iPad because I'm talking about a Kagan here.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: Man, that can bring out the worst in us.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: It can be so easy to get distracted and to not be the bigger person.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: But that's where, again, we've got to be slow to speak and slow to anger and quick to listen, quick to just take a step back for a moment, quick to send up a prayer to God, quick to, if you need to step out of the room if things are getting heated or you're feeling yourself getting anxious or whatever that looks like.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: Step out of the room, go to the bathroom, take a couple deep breaths, check in with God, get a little glass of water, whatever you need to do to maintain calm within yourself.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's tricky.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, relationships are tricky, and especially with family.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: And we are dealing with a lot in midlife, right?
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: We're dealing with reconnecting with spouses after the kids are growing up.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: We're dealing with our relationships with our grown kids, we're dealing with aging parents, we're dealing with likely our adult siblings as well and their kids and how that's functioning.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: We're dealing with how our spouses interact with our parents and how we interact with our spouses' parents.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's a lot.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's a lot.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it can be a lot of sometimes stress and drama.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: But on the other side of that, it can also be a lot of joy.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: It can also be a lot of joy if we let it, if we let it, and if we can take a step back and step out of the drama and know that we don't have to fix it all and that none of us are perfect.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, there will always be difficulties because none of us are perfect and we can't hold ourselves to such a high standard.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: And when we can do that and we can trust God to move into heal relationships and trust him to help us show up as our best selves through his power and his strength, then things start to change and more joy comes into our lives and into our relationships.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm gonna be praying that for you, and I've been praying that for Kay as she navigates this situation and praying for the heart changes that need to happen.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: And for all of you, because you know, in this phase of life, we're talking a lot about writing the next chapter and what does that look like now that our kids are grown and how do we live more joyfully?
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: And relationships are a very big piece to that puzzle.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so we have to be having these conversations as well.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: Family relationships are a big piece to that puzzle.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I hope this was helpful for you today.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: Feel free, please, to write in again and let me know.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: Listen, if you have advice for me in the situations, if you have more advice for Kay, whatever that looks like, we're building community here, a sisterhood here of midlife moms and women who are writing this next chapter and doing it as faithfully as we can and relying on the Lord to lead us.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: So if you have something to say, write in.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: So listen, I've had two episodes now that have come from women writing in and talking about things that they were going through.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: And both situations resonated with me because I've been in, if not exact same, similar situations.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm guessing it's the same for you.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_00: So remember the email is brook with an e at the end at thestillwellmom.com.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: Feel free to give me feedback, to ask questions, to weigh in on anything that we're talking about.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: I love hearing from you guys.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's like one of my favorite parts of the week.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you so much to all of you who have already reached out.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: Remember that I'm on Facebook and Instagram if you want to follow along at the Stillwell Mom.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: You can also go to the website, thestillwellmom.com, to get more information about what's going on to find the podcast there.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if you are enjoying this podcast, please, if you would share it first of all with women that you think it would help.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: That would be amazing.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: Help me get the word out.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then secondarily, if you're enjoying the show and you would take a moment to rate and review the podcast, it's a huge help for visibility and growing the community.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I just hope you remember again that you do not have to do midlife alone.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: You can always choose stewardship over striving, and you can be strong in body, steady in mind, and rooted in faith.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time.