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Carleigh Kmetz on the Role of Emotional Intelligence in Communication · Expertly Said

• Kristen Sweeney: My guest today is Carly Kmetz Associate Director Dermatology Public Affairs at APVI. Carly has built a storytelling career focused in healthcare. a communicator with a passion for elevating patient voices ⁓ building empowerment so patients can be active members in their care. Her current communications role is focused in public affairs and working to build and protect both brand and company reputation, ⁓ she also has 10 plus years of experience across internal communications, crisis management, executive comms, corporate social, and influencer strategy. You're listening to Expertly Said, a podcast on the art and impact of communication. I'm Kristen Sweeney, founder and CEO of Every Little Word. What you won't find on Carly's resume is her role as assistant coach for a local high school swim team. Coaching has built Carly's leadership abilities and motivational skill set, reinforced the value of relationship building, and highlighted the importance of communication and fostering meaningful relationships. Carly, welcome to the show. Carleigh Kmetz: Thank you so much Kristen. It's a pleasure to be here. Kristen Sweeney: I'm really looking forward to this conversation. ⁓ and as usual, I wanna get started with ⁓ your origin story. So we heard a little bit of the kind of the broad range of experience you have. ⁓ but take us back as far back as you'd like. ⁓ where did your journey into communications really begin? Carleigh Kmetz: ⁓ I mean, a at a young age, ⁓ mainly watching my sister and her ⁓ kind of growth into what she wanted to do for college. I'm ⁓ the youngest of three and I always wanted to follow in ⁓ my sister's footsteps. So I was having her fashion choices, what music was she listening to, and then when it was time for the like educational decisions of college, I was watching what she was doing and hearing the Kristen Sweeney: That's it for this episode of Expertly Said. We are produced by Every Little Word, a boutique content and communications agency. If you like what you heard, you know what to do. Subscribe, share the episode with a colleague, or leave us a review. If you want to connect with me directly, please do. You can find me on LinkedIn, just search Kristen Sweeney. Thanks for listening. Talk soon. Carleigh Kmetz: Amount of passion she had when she went into the communications field. And I said, ⁓ you could be doing that stuff like after you graduate, these are real things. And ⁓ so it led me actually going to the same college. I went to ⁓ University of Massachusetts in Amherst, ⁓ studied in communications, and then afterwards I was really ⁓ kind of dumbfounded in what industry do I take this in? And I had a lot of discussions with my parents. Of where's the right move? I graduated a semester early, so I was kind of the first of my group of graduates to be kind of looking at that job market. And in talking with my dad, who's in the pharmaceutical industry, I was really amazed that ⁓ you can be a communicator and not have as extensive of a scientific background. And so I was able to network with a lot of his communication colleagues. Throughout his many, many years of service within the pharmaceutical world and many companies he's been able to sit on. And ⁓ it just opened up a huge door of, ⁓ wow, like I I actually can see having even more passion for communications because of that direct tie to patients. And even if it's not an external focus, like even the internal component, there's still that network. Of you have to let in the internal employees know what you're doing on the outside and feel that level of passion. So there's still some level of connection to that patient community that you're serving. And that really guided me into wanting to go into the healthcare field and I originally started with an internal communications and I felt like that was a a really great journey for me of understanding what do employees want to know before jumping into the more external ⁓ public relations side of things where it's okay what does the company now want to relay to the outside world? What's the perception that they're trying to build? ⁓ how can you be doing this from a thought leadership perspective? How can you be doing this from your social engagement? ⁓ LinkedIn and having CEOs post on LinkedIn started to become a huge thing. So building those strategies for the first time and understanding the voices of these ⁓ leaders who didn't seem like they were that easy to access, then became super easy to access. So the world of Ask Me Anything, those types of things started to branch out and really helped evolve how we thought about communications and that standard of Kristen Sweeney: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Carleigh Kmetz: Of put out a press release, a couple social media posts that didn't end up doing the trick, and you had to keep kind of pushing yourself to new worlds of creativity, and then found myself at Abvi and has been able to grow in that creative fashion of really thinking through year-long campaigns and how we're engaging with the patient community, how we're engaging with the advocacy groups that are also building so many super powerful resources for. these patients, even just the networking and cross functional support that you have to have to be able to deploy these types of communications is huge. So it's it's everywhere and everything. Kristen Sweeney: Yeah, yeah. Agreed. There's ⁓ gosh, there's so much in there I want to respond to. So first I love that ⁓ it's like a s positive story of inspiration from within your own family, the family affair. I have two girls, seven and three, and I can't tell you the number of identical sets of loves that we have, right? Because like the little one wants to be just like the big one. ⁓ and sometimes vice versa, too. So ⁓ really relate to that, but it sounds like, you know. For you, that was something that was inspiring, but you found a way to like make it your own and own it for yourself as well. Yeah. ⁓ and then when you were talking about that early role in internal comms, I was just having a conversation yesterday and someone made an excellent point. They said, you know, at this point in the age of social, everything is online, everything internal is external. And that's such a like interesting. Carleigh Kmetz: Exactly. Exactly. Mm-hmm. Kristen Sweeney: kind of place to be in, but but ⁓ you know, and internal I think you have a little more opportunity to maybe not control the message, but certainly to shape it. ⁓ and the flip side of that, right, is employees are paying really close attention. really close attention. ⁓ whereas, you know, externally you're you're, you know, ⁓ obviously you have own channels, but you're working with earn media and like trying to identify other opportunities versus being able to sort of ⁓ Carleigh Kmetz: One hundred percent, one hundred percent. Kristen Sweeney: you know, make them for yourself internally. So ⁓ it's a great journey. I am curious, as you said, you know, early on learning, okay, you don't have to have a scientific background in order to work in ⁓ comms in biopharma, but what was the experience like for you of needing to kind of pick up the science aspect of it? What what was useful for you? what would you maybe have done differently? Carleigh Kmetz: Yeah, I I mean, I definitely talked to a many, many medical affairs colleagues of ⁓ how are you interpreting this data? ⁓ give it to me in layman's terms, like what's how is this important? Or like if we had a new piece of data and we wanted to announce something about it, whether it was internal or external, it's w well, why is this important? It's just like, Well, this is new data in the field and that's blah blah blah blah and it's like No no, like I real like I'm I'm gonna push and like pull and like really try to get as much information as possible because these are the questions that people are going to be asking. Like our employees who sit and some of them work so closely on a program and others have no idea that program is even happening. So you have a very wide range of knowledge and you need to be able to hit the people at their lowest level of knowledge. Kristen Sweeney: Mm-hmm. Right. Carleigh Kmetz: ⁓ and it might seem very tedious for someone who has lived and breathed it, but that's where the like the tremendous kudos and thank yous and the like hard work, that's where that's attributed. So you're still able to recognize them, but you need to be able to balance with what's the nitty-gritty of the why do I need to know this? And like, yes, this is important for you, but like why is it important to a patient? Why is it important to a clinician? What How is this going to change someone's every day? Or is it not? And if it's not, like that's totally fine too. But like, give me that level of information. And then I I think it allowed me to better understand also like the patient population. So some of your treatments when they're going through clinical trials or they're FDA approved for a disease state. You're able to really better understand what's that patient journey. How many treatments does that patient actually have access to? To or if they have access to a lot, how many are they going through time and time again and not getting the quality ⁓ results that they should be? So, like, what is their knowledge base? And it's just a constant stream of questions that I think between talking with internal colleagues, talking with external organizations that really know the community, doing your own level of social listening of what is that community saying kind of Of all of those pieces help build that larger puzzle of okay, I feel really confident that I can own this brand, this treatment, this patient population, and also give myself the grace that there's always going to be new learnings. The landscape evolves, and once it evolves, there's something new that you have to pick up. But that's why you have kind of a broader team, that it's not just Kristen Sweeney: Mm-hmm. Carleigh Kmetz: I'm a communicator of one in terms of like what I do within dermatology and support the business, but I have a whole cross-functional team behind me that's able to really lean in and help support what's that information base that I can communicate. So even though it's coming through one person, there's truly a huge team behind you as well. Kristen Sweeney: Yeah. Yeah. I loved you talked about for me, I think of this concept as calibration, which is it's not just sort of receiving the information, but having an understanding of the importance of it. And that is one of the key things that, you know, when we work with executives and experts that we need to rely on them for. It's like I can uncover this, but I need you to tell me, is this Everybody in your industry knows this and it's old news. Is this a standard best practice? Is this like an earth-shattering revelation? Because I could think it sounds interesting or unique, but I need to understand how we introduce it versus being like, the sky is blue, you know, like meanwhile, yeah, yeah, people know that. So that that process, and I think that's really a place where Carleigh Kmetz: Yeah. It's like ⁓ people know that. Kristen Sweeney: ⁓ I know certainly we rely on those experts that we work with to help us calibrate what for this audience to your understanding, like is it new to them? Is it in you know, is it ⁓ something they misunderstand? Like calibrating not just the sort of level of importance, but that's directly tied into who you are talking to, the importance to them. Carleigh Kmetz: Mm-hmm. One hundred percent. I d I don't think that it's e every company has a goal of what do they want to communicate, how do they want to be perceived, what's the reputation that they're building, but there's also the component of you need to know your audience and you need to know what they want to hear. And sometimes those messages don't align and you have to figure out a new way of how can we make this resonate and what what is that storytelling method? Is there a communications role? Maybe there's not, but oftentimes there is. I I I hardly go into a meeting where I'm like, I shouldn't have been here. Like I I think most of the time it's like, ⁓ yeah, no, I should have been here. Kristen Sweeney: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right. All right. Yeah. Yeah. I want to touch a little with you on your experience with ⁓ social, ⁓ social campaigns and then also get into a little bit of your work with influencers. ⁓ we've had a little bit of conversation with some other guests, but this is certainly an area where, you know, pharma's not known for necessarily leading the charge in n like say the the latest ⁓ most kind of out there. marketing efforts and techniques. So ⁓ tell me a little bit about influencer culture ⁓ and ⁓ collaboration in the context of pharma. What's what's challenging about it and and why is it maybe way why or where is it still worth I imagine a lot of extra leg work, right? Carleigh Kmetz: Yeah, yeah. I mean it it is a larger effort to support, but it definitely moves the needle in terms of your reputation and how people are receiving information. I think I actually was just digging into Edelman's Trust Barometer Report that they put out annually and they have a special report on trust and health, and that report like shined so loudly that Kristen Sweeney: Mm-hmm. Carleigh Kmetz: Yes, your doctor is a very primary source of information, but oftentimes people have more trust in their peers. So if they are on social and they see someone that looks like them that sounds relatively intelligent talking about something, they're not gonna necessarily do the back-end research to make sure that that was factual. Like they're gonna just automatically assume, like, ⁓ you said that you should be eating carrots in the morning. Okay, I'm gonna be eating carrots in the morning. ⁓ and kind of take that in rather than, ⁓ you you should be eating carrots in the morning, let me research that, let me ask my doctor that. It's kind of it's moved away from this broader range of research and kind of putting trust in various lenses of people and also the boom of AI. So I think that that ecosystem is definitely a ⁓ really important. Kristen Sweeney: Mm-hmm. Carleigh Kmetz: reminder of how we should be engaging with the patient community because at the end of the day they don't want to be defined by their condition. They are going to be a normal person. So I have to think of myself of if I'm the normal demographic for that patient population, what am I doing when I'm scrolling on my phone? I'm watching get ready with me's I'm seeing like some home run reels. I'm watching dogs play dress up. Like I'm doing the normal things that people want to see, and then I'm seeing some people who look like me ⁓ and dress like me, and I'm looking more intently at those people and listening to them and following them. And so I have to kind of put myself into that patient's shoes of what would they be doing? And I think that that's kind of expanded the lens of influencer engagement and pharma in the sense of yes, we can be. Kristen Sweeney: Mm-hmm. Carleigh Kmetz: Be behind the curve in the sense of we can't put a social media post out within a day. Like that's not within our regulatory constraints. But if you really understand the like long-range plan of ⁓ this is kind of evergreen for a patient, then you can sneak in into those moments in time that matter to them and actually reach them at a point of inflection. And so I I think an example of that is really Kristen Sweeney: Right. Carleigh Kmetz: Finding a quote unquote like lifestyle influencer. So someone who isn't regularly posting about their condition on their platform, but ⁓ from like a dermatology lens will look at people who are maybe more into fashion or people who have partnered with some skincare brands and have opened up a little bit that they have, let's say, psoriasis, but that's not the whole. Purpose of their channel. And I think it's finding those kind of diamonds in the rough that are going to be able to be on someone's scroll and do the type of ⁓ content that people are normally going to want to watch. So that when they've a person first sees that person, they're like, ⁓ they're talking about this fashion thing, or they're talking about this. And then you insert the patient impact component. Like, what's that one key message that you want that person to highlight or is it going to a URL? So I think that that that's the new way that I've seen ⁓ entrance that has been very powerful and has made the case for why influencer. ⁓ I think another component of it is there's various levels. ⁓ We saw a lot in the pharma industry you're going to have your celebrity ⁓ and like this is your primary Kristen Sweeney: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Carleigh Kmetz: Spokesperson, and over the years that's like dwindled down to we don't need the celebrity, we would rather have kind of like a tribe, like an army of people that we could be working with and supporting our brand, or just supporting like general disease education. And we're gonna look at the more like micro level, where they still have a very supportive audience and following, but it's not gonna be Kristen Sweeney: Mm-hmm. Carleigh Kmetz: Be in the millions, it's going to be in like the ten thousands. And so you're seeing a lot more of how can we be working with ⁓ I don't want to call them smaller level influencers, they all have their purpose, but the ones that don't have as large of a following and aren't at that celebrity level because that's where you're really seeing like a prime audience engagement moment. And then it's I think even most successful when after your campaign launches, you're seeing their followers like increase and you're like, ⁓ okay, this wasn't just purposeful for me. It was purposeful for them as well. Kristen Sweeney: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I l I love this and you kind of preempted a question I had about how how you're considering like what makes a good influencer ⁓ for an organization. Tell me a little bit about the balance of sort of multiple brands in play, right? The personal brand of the influencer, the organization's brand. ⁓ how do you sort of navigate the partnership piece while ensuring I think authenticity because of course this is kind of the the underlying right is like the credibility and authenticity that these individuals have. So how do you preserve that and you know with regulatory and everything else that you're dealing with, how do you kind of navigate and find the right balance? Carleigh Kmetz: Yeah. Yeah, because at at the end of the day, it is a script. Like you we do have to identify a tight knit script that can be approved ⁓ within the kind of confines of of pharma in this like more highly regulated environment. And and that's important. ⁓ and I think that the influencers that we engage with understand that level of importance and understand that nuance of like, hey, you Can have a product that has a lot of ⁓ safety that needs to be advised. Like, this isn't going to be a standard video for me. Like it's but it's not I don't want it to also just stand out as like someone seeing that piece of content and being like, Why the heck are they doing that? Like, you you definitely need that level, exactly, like you definitely need that level of authenticity, and I think it goes through a lot of vetting. we're going through years. Kristen Sweeney: Right. This is a random ad, yeah. Carleigh Kmetz: Worth of content, we're really trying to understand what's their engagement, how are they talking about things, how are they not talking about things? I think a big part of it is are they a person that is very reactive to their community or things that are happening in the world, or do they have a more nuanced way of approaching it? And you kind of assess various levels of risks, and I think any Kind of partnership has some level of risk because that there's only so much control you can have. But I think the the sweet spot we've been able to kind of manage, at least what I've been noticing, is it it first starts out in that longer vetting process of like who are our people? What are they saying? And then once you get to that introductory phase of like that handshake agreement of like, yeah, I'm in contract with you, let's partner. on the content, then it really is going through like the preliminary meetings and having more realistic facetimes of what is your story? What's one thing that you wish the community knew more? And it's digging into that more personal ⁓ like lifehood and their experience and finding a way that has their experience match a key message that we want to be sharing. And then that's kind of the blending point. So It might take two months to get a post out the door, but when you're able to meet someone's personal experience with that personal experience resonates with a key message that we want to be sharing, then it's kind of that like bright star of this content works at any point in time. Kristen Sweeney: Yeah. That beautiful Venn diagram, that beautiful overlap. ⁓ Yeah, I love that. Carly, before we shift to our one big idea, which I'm very excited about, I want to talk to you a little bit about swimming. ⁓ I was so excited to see this in your bio. I am a former swimmer myself. I swam in my early years and was very, very active on our swim team all through high school. I was captain my senior year. ⁓ and it was like a it still remains a big Carleigh Kmetz: Yeah. Yeah. Kristen Sweeney: Part of my identity. So first I wanna ask you what events you swam. Carleigh Kmetz: Ha ha ha. I was I was a butterfly, ⁓ which is not usual for for most, but that was one of the first strokes that I was able to do really well at an early age. And so that was kind of the the I am butterfly 500. Like they're like, you're one of the only swimmers that can do it. I was way better at short distances. I was not gonna be doing a five hundred free. Like don't don't put me through that. But if you Kristen Sweeney: Okay. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Carleigh Kmetz: You are have me in for a fifty or a hundred, I I can do that well. ⁓ but my favorite stroke was backstroke. ⁓ I just leaned into to butterfly just since I had the early age experience of kind of trekking along and doing that in swim meet after swim meet. How about you? Kristen Sweeney: Nice, nice. Nice. ⁓ it was a two hundred, two hundred free, two hundred im, so I had a really good fifty fly and then I would die out. ⁓ so occasionally I swam a hundred, but it was rough and frost stroke so slow. so that was me. Carleigh Kmetz: Yep. Yeah, I I give kudos for the people who can perfect brushstroke. Anytime I see it on the Olympics, I'm like, How? How? I like I wish. Kristen Sweeney: How? How do you get anywhere? How do you get anywhere? ⁓ tell me a little bit about, you know, we were chatting before the episode started, about what being a coach has taught you about communication, especially maybe some of that intergenerational communication. So love to hear a little bit more about that. Carleigh Kmetz: Mm. Yeah, I mean, I I I think that when you're talking to a group of kids who are growing up in a different generation than you did. They are experiencing the world in a very different way. I mean, they experienced school during COVID. I couldn't imagine that. Like their life has been altered in a different way than my life was altered through my schooling. And so it's really kind of that balance of like know your audience. Like I I think that that really taught me of like what do they want to be hearing how can I share what I want to tell them in a way that resonates with them and it's it's kind it constantly went back to like know my audience. So it was I got to know them more. I got to know what classes they liked. I got to know the teachers that they didn't like. I got to know what strokes that they really wanted to perfect. ⁓ I learned a lot about the ⁓ parts of practice that they hated and I would still make them do it, but I like it's it's really digging down to Kristen Sweeney: Yeah. Carleigh Kmetz: Who are they? And ⁓ how how can I have this information resonate to make them better? And I I think at the end of the day as a coach, like I did want to ensure was this an experience that you would want to come back to? I think that's the number one goal of I would hate to be that person that led you into the pool, and then at the end of the season, you were like, I'm never stepping in a pool again. To me, that would be a very very huge failure. And so knowing at the end of the season that those kids were wanting to go back into the pool, that was the biggest accomplishment. But I think like the true source of pride for a coach is really you're seeing those kids not like improve on their time. You're seeing their stroke get stronger. And that was the point of pain is trying to share with that the younger kids of Hey, have you thought about doing this with your stroke? And they're like, no, I that's not gonna work. It's like I yeah. So it's like, but I I I I think it might be a good thing for you to try. And they would like roll their eyes and then they would do it. And they'd be like, how how'd that feel? Kristen Sweeney: I know how to swim. Carleigh Kmetz: Okay. Like it's it takes a lot of convincing, but at the end like I the more I knew them, the easier it was to ⁓ have them feel like Kristen Sweeney: Yeah. Carleigh Kmetz: I'm a peer but also a superior. Like it was that interesting balance that I think that they were able to finally accept at a certain point in time because they saw the level of interest I was putting back into them and really understanding who they are, what they wanted, and ⁓ was communicating in a way at that point, knowing what they wanted, in where it resonated. Kristen Sweeney: Yeah, I love that. I you got me thinking, like, I mean, one of the things I think is so great about swimming is like it's a little boring, you know? And it just kind of it requires a lot of discipline. And when you're just not in a race certainly, but when you're just there doing your sets, like it's a little boring and you still kind of do it anyway. And ⁓ but I think about like Carleigh Kmetz: Yep. Kristen Sweeney: At some point I absorbed and as an adult, I very much understand the idea that like hard things get me results, right? But even seeing my own ki my own kid practice piano or dance or anything else, I'm like, that's not just like ingrained in us. And I forgot that somewhere along the way, right? To the point of like understanding your audience that that's actually a lesson that I must have learned at some point in life. It's like hard things and then you get better. And that makes the hard, sometimes boring stuff. Carleigh Kmetz: It's true. Kristen Sweeney: worth doing. It's like a it reinforces. ⁓ but what I love about what you shared is that like you're explaining that and articulating that and making that connection ⁓ that maybe I think as adults we kind of take for granted. Carleigh Kmetz: Yeah. For sure. Mm. For sure. And I I I also love the point that like oftentimes swimming is seen as individual. And for the most part it is individual. But you are on a team. So like if you miss a race, you're you're hindering your team. Like the the points that you're getting during that meet, now you you you lost the opportunity to gain points. Like the there is still like a level of commitment that yes you want to do it for yourself, but you're also wanting to still Kristen Sweeney: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Carleigh Kmetz: you're you're still trying to ingrain that team atmosphere in it and the importance of showing up for your team, not just for yourself. And I think that that's always an important lesson to have. ⁓ but I I do really appreciate swimming because it's not just about the team. It is also about you individually and like what you can achieve on your own. Mm-hmm. Kristen Sweeney: Yeah. Beating your best and yeah, yeah, definitely. I the earliest example I can think of of seeing strategy in action, and I wouldn't learn what strategy was for many years, is my high school swim coach. And she used to pull up on the overhead projector before every swim meet. She would map out every event, who we were swimming, and based on careful study, who she thought the other school would swim. What their times were and what she expected everyone's rank to be. And she would show us that although we didn't have the top swimmers, we had a really strong team, but you know, there were some superstars certainly. And sh and she was like, but we will win because of our depth. We had huge team. And so it was like, we will take second, third, and fourth place. She would map out the points, and the whole thing was just like this giant strategic exercise. ⁓ I give her a lot of credit. I didn't appreciate it at the time. I was just like, ⁓ okay, it's good. We're gonna win. Great. You know, I mean the amount of work that must have gone into that. ⁓ Carleigh Kmetz: Yeah. Yeah, there's there's definitely a lot of background with the other coaches of how do we set up this meet, but also ensure that we aren't having our kids do a stroke that they absolutely hate. And so there are those times where it's like, well, someone has to do the five hundred. And so like the weeks prior to the event, you're trying to suss out like what kid could be supporting a five hundred and it's also telling them like this isn't gonna Kristen Sweeney: Yeah. Carleigh Kmetz: be your this might not be your event every single time but like how about we try it ha like let's see this learning opportunity and and that was also I think part of the strategy. Your your coach definitely seemed very she she knew even just everything from the other team perspective. Mine was ⁓ very honed in on my own like team members and and those students. Of course there is certain Kristen Sweeney: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Carleigh Kmetz: ⁓ areas where you're thinking about the other school, but ⁓ I I definitely leaned in on the coach side of like what do these students want to be doing and kind of put that perspective in with the other coaches. So at the end of the day you're an assistant coach, you aren't making all of the head decisions, but you're still able to have some level of voice to help kind of guide that that larger strategy. Kristen Sweeney: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, awesome. Well, I want to make sure we have time for a one big idea, but I really appreciate the conversation on this. It was really fun for me to talk swimming and yeah. Yeah. Same. So let's switch gears completely. ⁓ every episode we cover one big idea. Carly, this is a chance for us to get into the nitty-gritty details of one insight, experience, or aspect of your work. Carleigh Kmetz: Likewise, I I love swim. Kristen Sweeney: That has had a meaningful impact on how you communicate. ⁓ Today's one big idea is the role of emotional intelligence in communication. So you gave me this great ⁓ when we were speaking before, kind of traditional definition of comms as information exchange. Can you talk a little bit about that and why you think that sort of falls short of what's really needed to make an impact? Carleigh Kmetz: Yeah, I mean, ⁓ information exchange is one hundred percent important in part of communications, but for the sole definition of communications, ⁓ we've evolved way past that. And we are at a point where ⁓ you need to be understanding the intention and the purpose of your communication and what's the emotion that you wanna have behind that communication. And then it goes again back into what I I we've been talking about a lot is Like, what's the audience? And that's where that exchange of information, if you're solely defining it by that, you're missing all of these other subcontexts that really help build the foundation of an exchange of information that's actually resonating and that's actually impactful, and that's telling the story that someone wants to hear, but that you are also wanting to share. ⁓ Kristen Sweeney: Mm-hmm. Carleigh Kmetz: into someone else's shoes and they're seeing this, like how are they going to react? Like that that one question is so important and definitely where the the empath in me ⁓ really comes out in how I think about communications. Kristen Sweeney: Yeah, I'd love to hear more about that because, you know, from talking with you a little bit about this, it's like this is not an intellectual exercise for you. ⁓ so can you share maybe a little bit more about being an empath yourself and how that impacts, like what what does it mean to consider the emotion of your audience? How does that affect you, like on a maybe quite literal level? Like I'd love to just hear more more about that. Carleigh Kmetz: Yeah. I mean some days are really challenging. Like if I truly put myself into the shoes of an individual ⁓ going through ⁓ a type of rare cancer or going through a chronic skin condition ⁓ that's so visible to the outside world like you're you're understanding the pain and shame and like emotional layer that they're going through and you're just like once you know that it's really hard to say what what do I like what does our company want to communicate that's actually important to them? Like how can you break down that wall of saying like my information matters listen to it like when you truly know the journey that they're going through. Kristen Sweeney: Yeah. Carleigh Kmetz: And every journey you're at is completely different. So you also kind of putting yourself in the shoes of you might have a person who's newly diagnosed or you might have a person who's been battling ⁓ for ten years and everything in between or even further out there. ⁓ ⁓ ⁓ can be a lot to manage and take in, but I I think it's ⁓ not have it be kind of like all encompassing It really is ⁓ what are the key insights of a patient journey that I want to tie myself to? ⁓ How can I understand how they're thinking, how they're feeling on a daily basis? And then ⁓ let's really think about that when we're putting forward a communications proposal, when ⁓ I'm working with my marketing partners and they're putting together a commercial proposal. like how is that commercial going to resonate? Is the activities that the patient is doing? Is that something that they like that patient actually is doing? So I think it's also being that like gut check of ⁓ it's allowed me to be that gut check of hey let's not be tone deaf. Let's really think about what they're experiencing and not just kind of put that on the back burner like how can we constantly make this front and center. Kristen Sweeney: Okay. Carleigh Kmetz: And i i I won't lie, it is it is overwhelming, but I think when it becomes kind of the standard practice of ⁓ before you do something, you're thinking of them. you're hopeful that what you do afterwards is is the right move and doesn't kind of rock the boat or ⁓ cause a crisis. Kristen Sweeney: Yeah. I I love this and ⁓ you know, as a background as an actor, like what you're describing is kind of the state that you're often trying to get into. Acting exercises are playing a role is like im it's embodied, right? It's not just okay, I've got some attributes down in my messaging and like all right, it's it's really kind of taking that on. And as you said, that can be a lot. So you have to of course like protect yourself ⁓ as well. Carleigh Kmetz: Mm. Kristen Sweeney: I'm curious how you think about so we talked about kind of c that sort of emotional connection of the patient experience or whoever that audience is on the other side, right? Maybe it's a busy healthcare provider, it could be a KOL, like a lot of different, a lot of different things. ⁓ I'm curious if you have a perspective on the intention as or like the emotional state as the Carleigh Kmetz: Mm. Kristen Sweeney: Creator. And I'm thinking about this a lot because this is one of the things that I see in a, I'll say like a more nuanced version of the kind of the great ongoing AI debates, right? Is this idea that like AI didn't think anything when it AI didn't feel anything, AI didn't come from a particular place. And so that's not to say like let levy judgment on usage or not overall, but ⁓ Carleigh Kmetz: Mm. Mm. Kristen Sweeney: It makes me think about what is the role of intention as a a creator or someone building that plan or crafting that message. Do you have a perspective on on what where that emotion kind of fits? Is it a a two-way street or is it primarily focused on the end audience for you? Carleigh Kmetz: I I think there is, I mean, at the end of the day when you're working as a professional for a company, you do have to keep like their strategic imperatives in mind. What's the enterprise impact that you're trying to achieve? So there is two ways to the emotion. Like we also have to balance like what's the tone and tenor that we typically communicate in and is that tone and tenor appropriate for this situation? ⁓ is Is the spokesperson? Like, is it going to be a executive that we want talking right now? Or is it going to be a person that we want to talk on behalf of us in the sense of let's bring in a subject matter expert or a a healthcare professional or even a patient? Like, is there other people who are better at communicating this? And I think that that's also like that's also where intention comes. ⁓ Based on our enterprise goals, based on our ⁓ brand goals and those strategic imperatives of how are we trying to move the needle to help this community? It's also thinking about how what's the best way to communicate that with intention on our side. And it's being kind of humble to the essence of not everyone, not everyone at every time is going to want to hear from the executive. of your company. They might want to hear from someone else who can ⁓ kind of blend the two worlds of the patient experience and the the company perspective. And so that that takes a lot of intention work as well. It's not just thinking about your audience, it's thinking about like how how can we be communicating better and bringing that to life in a in a newfound way. Kristen Sweeney: Yeah. I l I love that perspective and because there are the right messages for the right time. I think for me, one of the things that I do feel like translates to my work is it it actually does go back to what you said about kind of connecting to the so if I think about our clients and I care deeply about our clients, but that doesn't mean like by, you know, late on Wednesday, I'm not kind of like ⁓ this thing, you know, you could get a little like, can I just check the box and move on with this? And and so you gotta really dig deep to be like, why are we doing this? What are we trying to achieve for them? Because I believe in their mission and who they wanna help. it's not always that easy to keep that thread kind of to stay connected to it, right? Carleigh Kmetz: Mm. And I I mean ⁓ sometimes maybe that level of effort isn't needed. Like there might be a communication where it's like w w what d do we need to put in this much thinking? O often times I'm in the lens of d Kristen Sweeney: Just released me from a lot. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Carleigh Kmetz: what would it hurt not to do that? Like, why wouldn't we? But if there needs to be like quick answers and like we need to respond to this quickly, then you kind of go back to your tried and true of like, what's the best way to be reactive in this situation? Or do we have a process that we follow that helps us be reactive in this situation? But when you're taking like more of those proactive approaches and really building out like how are we communicating to whatever the Kristen Sweeney: Yeah, yeah. Carleigh Kmetz: audiences. I I think that level of of first initial thought of really what does your audience want to hear? How do we want to communicate and kind of doing that balancing act is is really important. Kristen Sweeney: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I was I was just thinking, and I'm I don't think he'll ever listen to this podcast, but if he did, we'd have a good laugh about it. I was ⁓ speaking with a client the other day, and he was like, Yeah, I was gonna put up this this post-event post, but then I started looking at the pictures, and there's so many pictures. We had three different photographers, and I wasn't sure, and I was just like You don't have to review 2,000 photos. You just have to find one good one of you. Like that's it. It's not actually more difficult than that. You know, it doesn't have to be this exhaustive and exhausting exercise. So ⁓ thanks for reminding us of that. Carly, I wanna move us now to the last word. This is our lightning round segment where every guest gets the same five questions to answer. Just go with your gut on these. Are you ready? All right, number one. Carleigh Kmetz: Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, go for it. Kristen Sweeney: What is your favorite word to say out loud? Carleigh Kmetz: Love. I I am in a a love era right now. I am I'm planning a wedding, so I I it's kind of it's it's it's a little bit more in in in front of mind. Yeah. Kristen Sweeney: ⁓ congratulations, you're getting lots of love. Awesome. What's a word you know from reading, but you are not sure how to say it out loud? Carleigh Kmetz: So I know how to say it out loud, but I always feel like I'm gonna mispronounce it if I just read it plainly. It's kernel because there's no R in the spelling. Kristen Sweeney: Like the fried chicken kernel? Carleigh Kmetz: ⁓ no, like the ⁓ military, like a colonel, yeah. Yeah. Yes. Kristen Sweeney: Yeah, yeah, Colonel Sanders is what is the gift. Yes, yes, okay. ⁓ yeah, that's fair. That's fair. not to be confused with the popcorn colonel. Said the same. Why? I don't know. ⁓ question three. What's one phrase saying you wish could be retired for good? Carleigh Kmetz: True, true. Why? I think in the pharma world game changer, ⁓ the more the more you say it, the less meaning it has, 'cause not everything can be a game changer and that it seems like most communications start using that word pretty ⁓ fluidly. but I I I think more generally it's the it is what it is. I feel like that phrase you aren't you aren't allowing problem solving. You aren't allowing Kristen Sweeney: Ooh, okay. Carleigh Kmetz: some of the like areas of life that are important to experience. You're just accepting things as they are, which time and place for it. But if it's a common saying in practice, then it it kind of negates some of the the nuance and the problem solving that you can have behind. Kristen Sweeney: ⁓ you are the second guest to give me it is what it is. And my husband frequently asks me why it's not everybody's saying. ⁓ so I will have to tell him. He'll be delighted. ⁓ he's like, how is this not the only answer? What's a communication of practice or principle that's non-negotiable for you? Carleigh Kmetz: so I will have to sell the Snaps. I would say that every communication needs to have a purpose. Kristen Sweeney: Love it. And what's the last thing you read, heard, or watched that really stuck with you? Carleigh Kmetz: I actually have ⁓ the book beside me, but it's ⁓ tiny tiny beautiful things. it's a a compilation of a columnist called Deer Sugar, and she would receive anonymous Kristen Sweeney: ⁓ a show and tell. Carleigh Kmetz: comments from people asking for life advice on various topics. And so this was a compilation of some of her better like question and answer, like her responses back to the people. And there are ⁓ many in here that I I go back to pretty frequently of that is such a different way of looking at things and how she how she'll typically answer Kristen Sweeney: Nice. Wow. Carleigh Kmetz: is bringing her own perspective in. So she'll the more you read it, the ⁓ like the sooner you'll actually start to get what she's trying to point to because you you get her storytelling method a bit more, but it's it's definitely very powerful and has had me kind of change my perception of talking about issues with people and how can we be solving them. Kristen Sweeney: Wow. Is that the author of Wild? Carleigh Kmetz: ⁓ yes, yes, yes, yes. Yeah, and brave enough, yeah. Kristen Sweeney: Okay, okay. I haven't Okay, nice, nice. I will have to check that out. This is like my own personal recommendation list. So I appreciate it. Carly, thank you so much for joining me today. If our listeners want to learn more about you, where can they go to find you? Carleigh Kmetz: Of course. can definitely find me on LinkedIn. I'm ⁓ always happy for new followers and and connections. So ⁓ yeah, Carly Cometz for for LinkedIn. Kristen Sweeney: Awesome. Thank you so much for being here. Really enjoyed the conversation. Carleigh Kmetz: Likewise, ⁓ always happy to talk about communications. Thanks, Kristen. Kristen Sweeney: Thank you.