Latest / Thrive A/F (After Forty) / Lever 6: Technology - Data & Insights for Health & Longevity | Thrive A/F Ep. 7
Transcript
- Lou Fratto: you asked me the other day, you said, Hey, do do you think I'm like on the crazy side of of this stuff? And how how crazy are you? And I'm like, Well, it depends who you ask, you know. Keith: Yeah. Lou Fratto: if you were to ask my wife, for example, she's thinks I'm she I might as well be Brian Johnson's you know, twin or something. She's i if she tells people, He wakes up at crazy hours and he works out like a madman and he goes to jujitsu and he He fights all these people and he you know and he he'll never eat anything bad and dah dah dah and all this stuff and I you know, and that's her take and Keith: Hello. Welcome back. We are here. Thrive AF. This is episode seven. Last time we got it wrong. I said it was episode five. It was episode Lou Fratto: Yeah. Keith: six. This is episode seven. I am one of the podcast hosts. My name is Keith Kalija. And I am one of the owners of CrossFit Terminus in Atlanta, Georgia. I am here with my good friend. You might know him as One of South Florida's most elite physical therapists, a longevity specialist, master of the ancient art of judo, and author and scholar, my friend Lou Fratto. Lou, say hello to the fans. Lou Fratto: Hey. Hey guys. thanks for the exaggerating all that stuff, Keith. I appreciate Keith: Ha ha ha. Lou Fratto: it. By the way, it's not judo, it's ju jujitsu. So bit Keith: my goodness, I should go back. We should start over. Lou Fratto: technically it's a big difference because if Keith: Yeah. Lou Fratto: I went against a really good ju judo guy in and we were standing up, I would probably end up flying through the air and landing on my back. So it is a big difference. Yeah. Keith: Sorry about that. No disrespect to either discipline. That is a rookie mistake on my part. I should know better. So jujitsu. Lou Fratto: No. None taken, none taken. Keith: I would love to maybe, you know, at some point get a deep dive on the difference between the two because as a lay person not in the martial arts, it's not a hundred percent clear. But I know my kids took a keto one for a while when Lou Fratto: Nice. Keith: they were young. But anyway, that's a bit of a sidetrack, but it's been a while. Since we got together and did a podcast. So maybe we could just take a minute and catch up and say, How you doing, Lou? Like how's the last couple of weeks been good? Lou Fratto: Yeah. Hey, I'm good. Yeah. Went to Dallas to see my folks. I know you went to see your parents as well in Sarasota, right? So it's been good, yeah. Keith: Yep. Yep. Yeah. Same here. It was nice to take some time off. We were celebrating belated birthday for my dad. So happy birthday, belated birthday, dad. Got to play a little golf, fish a little bit. My brother and I went down. It was awesome. It was good times. Lou Fratto: Do does your dad fish too when you guys go or? Keith: Yeah. Yeah. I mean he used to he's owned two boats and not anymore, but we used to do a lot of fishing out in the golf and then we get out on the golf course now. We take his golf cart out and go to the golf cart golf course ponds and fish a little bit. So he was a big influence on me, when I started getting back into fishing. So it was nice. Lou Fratto: That's cool. I I can't wait to have my buddy Doug on here as a guest. you know we you guys know him as the shark fighter. Keith: Ha ha ha. Lou Fratto: you guys will have great conversations 'cause he's a big time fisherman. Keith: Yeah, Lou Fratto: And he's tried Keith: I saw that. Lou Fratto: he's tried hard to convert me. And it's a tough battle. I I get seasick, so you know. Keith: really? Lou Fratto: Yeah, so that's the main thing that holds me back. I mean, if I go out, Keith: Yeah. Lou Fratto: it's gotta be flat and all this stuff, because I don't wanna ruin everybody's trip, you know. And well you remember. Remember when we went to the Bahamas and I was seasick the whole time on the way there? I mean that w Keith: Yes, I do remember. There was a lot of people seasick on that boat. Lou Fratto: that was brutal. my god. Th this I wish I would have kept in touch with the other guy that was our age and he was from some other school. Keith: I have a picture of that of you two together. Lou Fratto: If you can find that you need to post that well, I don't know, we have to probably get his permission and I have no idea who he is. But but anyway, Keith: who knows? Forget it. Lou Fratto: he and I were the were the two guys in the bathroom the whole time just puking and we we had instant, Keith: Great story. Lou Fratto: you know, instant camaraderie there having to f fight that Keith: Yeah, I th I'll I will dig that picture up because you can tell y'all had a rough day. Lou Fratto: Yeah, and you know, I was like that age, you know, I c I didn't know I had a propensity to see sickness, but that kinda cemented it. I like I everybody else is like at least, you know, you guys that I was with. You guys were all having fun and I was just Keith: Yeah. The the worst thing about it is there's nothing you can do really. I mean, I guess you can take dramatamine and stuff like that, but if you're feeling nauseous on a boat, I mean there's nowhere to hide. And Lou Fratto: Yeah, it's the worst feeling. Keith: yeah. I never used to get it, but then I did get a touch of it. we did a Boy Scout trip that was on a sailboat for about six days. And Lou Fratto: wow. Keith: the only time it hit me is when we were underway and I went down below for a couple of minutes and I lost sight of the horizon. And Lou Fratto: yeah, yeah. Keith: I've never Really been seasick before and I was down there. I'm like, this is not good. I had to run back Lou Fratto: Yeah. Keith: up because it's different, man. It hits different. Lou Fratto: Yeah, it's like your body like goes haywire and the more you stress out about it the worse it it gets. Keith: Yeah. Lou Fratto: but he's tried really hard and you know, and the fish any kind of picture that I have of me holding a nice good size fish, you know, he basically did all the work and I, you know, reeled it in and then he grabbed it 'cause I won't even touch the fish, you know, and but I'm pretty bad. Keith: dude. I need to come down there. We need to do a we need to do a fishing trip together because that would be good content for the YouTube channel. Lou Fratto: man. I mean the f my favorite fishing is when w I used to go with my dad and uncle and cousin and we had guides and they would do everything. They would, you know, put the bait on there, they would say, Cast it over there, you'd cast it if you if you're lucky enough to catch one, they would take the fish off the hook and throw it back. I didn't have to do anything. Keith: Yeah. That's not fishing. I was gonna say I'm doing a trip next weekend, if everything works out. a river float here in Georgia with Lou Fratto: Nice. Keith: my buddy Carl Cordemire, who is a podcast listener. So shout out to Carl. He Lou Fratto: Sweet. Keith: is a he's like a my fishing sensei sensei. I mean, the guy just I mean, he can catch anything anytime, anywhere, and he's set up this trip where we're gonna float down. It's supposed to be like a 10 mile float down one of the rivers and camp out. So I'm excited about that. Lou Fratto: Nice. That that is a nice yeah, nice way to do it. So I was gonna say Doug had another death death defying adventure. I think it was last weekend he called me in Dallas and he told me about it. So again, I'm just Keith: man. Lou Fratto: gonna store all these up so that he can just release them all at once. Keith: really building Doug up here when he comes on. He is he's gotta he's really gonna have to perform. Lou Fratto: He has nine lives and his and his kids too because they've they've been through a lot of the adventures with him, so Keith: Good deal. All right. Well, good catching up. Let's get caught up on where we are with these episodes and what the topic is going to be today. But real quick, before we get into it, wanted to do a couple quick plugs. So on the first plug is for the podcast, Thrive AF. We are now on Instagram. So if y'all don't follow us closely on the Substack, you might have missed it. But we are on Instagram at at Thrive AF Podcast. So if you're on Instagram and you want to follow us, we have been posting a little bit of content there, kind of feeling our way. So give us a follow. Keep up with what's going on there. That's our first social media presence other than YouTube, which Lou Fratto: Awesome. Keith: I don't really count as social media. Lou Fratto: And you know what? Good job on that, because people should know, I think I've said it before, you all of the all of that stuff is because of you, you know. You and all of this stuff, I could never have done this. I I barely even know how to get on to in Instagram and and so it's all because of you and we should mention that your company is pescador consulting, right? And Keith: Yeah. Lou Fratto: what do you do what exactly do you do you do? Keith: Okay, so this will be a personal plug then for for me Lou Fratto: Mm-hmm. Keith: and for so for those of folks in the audience that don't know me personally, for the last 30 years or so I've been in digital marketing. and for the last eleven years I was with US Bank. Shout out. but now I'm out of my own. I've run big digital marketing. teams for big companies and digital agencies. So now with Pescador Consulting, essentially what I'm trying to do is take that experience and that knowledge and see how it can scale to small or medium-sized businesses. I'm also open to obviously working for any size company as a consultant. But this has been a great example of taking some of the skills that I developed and applying them to a smaller scale and hopefully maintaining a really high level of quality, but on a startup budget essentially like Thrive AF, it's not Lou Fratto: Yeah. Keith: like we have a big budget, right? actually it well Lou Fratto: Do we have a budget? Keith: confidential. We don't want to open the curtain that much. But but yeah, I mean I'm I have a website, pescadorconsulting.com. actually I just finished the second part of a case study that I did about this. about Thrive AF and how we put it together. So yeah, if if any listeners or viewers out there have need of a digital marketing strategist that with a lot of experience and also now sort of turning my attention towards trying to help small and medium-sized businesses you know level up their digital game, give me a shout, either on Lou Fratto: Right. Keith: the website or just send me an email at Keith at Keith at Thrive. Dash no thrive dash af dot com. So yeah. Lou Fratto: Right. Keith: Wow. A little brain fart there. Lou Fratto: thanks for the help with what you've done with this man and and p Keith: Yeah, it's been fun. Lou Fratto: yeah, it's been really a lot of fun. It's cool. Keith: Still evolving. all right. Before though, one more thing before we get into the meat of the episode, which is going to be about technology. I have a correction from last episode in the shout-outs. I gave a shout-out to a guy named Daniel and who's a terminus member and I pronounced his name wrong. So I pronounced it seeth. it's actually scythe. So Lou Fratto: Okay. Keith: I wanted to make that correction. So thanks for listening, Dan, and thanks for correcting me. Lou Fratto: Hey, I got a correction I gotta make too. Keith: Okay. Lou Fratto: Evelyn, who we showed a picture of her guns, Keith: Yep. Yep. Lou Fratto: said, actually, you know, Lou, I didn't quite get to black belt. She said, And and she said she was testing for it and she got hurt. And so Keith: Yeah. Lou Fratto: she's a brown belt in her discipline, didn't quite get to and this is how she got hurt. I think she she said she was in her forties. She had to run full speed and dive over five people and pull off the landing. And she said Keith: Like a somersault landing? Lou Fratto: Yeah, yeah. And she said as she was in the air, she realized she wasn't gonna make it. And she was gonna land on the last Keith: no. Like evil canival. Lou Fratto: Basically, she was gonna land on the last few people. Keith: Cool. Lou Fratto: So she said she twisted in the air to to avoid the people and landed off of the I guess there was a mat at the end if you made it. Landed off the mat and injured herself and that was the end of that was the end of that. So she wanted to Keith: no, poor thing. wow. Lou Fratto: be honest and say, I didn't quite make it to black belt, so but she's still an awesome person. Keith: Well we Yeah, yeah. We we definitely cherish honesty and authenticity. So shout out, Evelyn. The fact that you were up for even trying it. Too bad too bad you didn't have it on on video, because that would have been social Lou Fratto: I know, right? Keith: media gold. Lou Fratto: my god. Keith: Very viral. all right. So we're gonna talk about technology today, but first you wanna do the disclaimer because we're gonna get into some detailed information. Lou Fratto: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. W we're not software engineers, we're not doctors. this is not meant to take the place of what your physician is telling you or your healthcare provider. It's just for information and educational purposes and of course major entertainment. Right? Keith: Absolutely. I mean, that's number one. I think the other thing is this the other disclaimer today is we're gonna talk about products. we're gonna talk about, you know, software as you said, and and other products. none of this is sponsored content. We don't currently have any sponsors, and if we ever do, we will let the audience know. But the stuff we're gonna talk about today is stuff that we have personal experience with. It's not an endorsement, it's not a sponsorship, it's just what we use and what we know. So Lou Fratto: Yeah. Keith: All right. With all that preamble out of the way, let's talk about it. So I have it down as technology, but in the book I think it covers a little bit more than just strictly technology. So you do want to get into kind of what you covered in the chapter? Lou Fratto: yeah, what well I think I think it's it's best that we do just keep it to technology because it can get Keith: Okay. Lou Fratto: it can get really deep and and probably the other sections deserve their own podcasts as as well. So yeah, let's just stick to the technology part of it and then we can kinda circle back around in the future with the other parts of it. You know? Keith: Okay. Yeah, that works too. do you wanna start out with some of the main points, I guess, when you think about technology? Lou Fratto: Yeah. Yeah, I think the main actually if we were to summarize it into one point, it would be the best I could state it is like empowering yourself with the technology available today to give you information to make educated decisions. And there's no better time for it than in today's day and age. You know, it's just really this is funny, you know, this morning I got onto Chat GPT and I was going to ask it a question and it prompted me. It said, hey, do you want to link chat GPT to your health information on your phone? Keith: I got that same prompt this week and I've seen other people commenting about it like on LinkedIn and writing about how they feel about it. Lou Fratto: It's amazing because it the the timing couldn't have been better. Now I have no problem with it. I've actually been uploading information to it myself for over a year, maybe two years. And I love it because it gives me very detailed information and I mean answers based on me. And so yeah, I linked it up and I said, I I really have no problem with this. It's you know, they're they're gonna do their best to keep it confidential, but I had no problem with it. So I thought, wow, that's so ironic that it Ask me this morning. You know? Keith: Yeah, I mean, I think it'll be an area where obviously there's will be some debate about what you do and don't Lou Fratto: Yeah. Keith: want to share and what the, you know, what is the model using that data for? And there's probably tons of conversations happening, but I guess, you know, personal feelings about your comfort level with Lou Fratto: Yeah. Keith: what you share with AI is gonna is gonna play into that. But I'm sure it'll be a developing space where there's a lot of discussion and a lot of research. So Lou Fratto: Yeah, we're just on the cusp of it because if it's now starting to prompt people, Keith: Yeah. Lou Fratto: that's gonna be it's gonna blow up in that in that direction in a good way, or like you said, it could be there's also counterpoints to it. You know. Keith: Yeah. Yeah. One of the things that you did mention in the book, and and we're talking, I think in this case, what we were just talking about is sort of personal use of technology. But there was also some information that you shared in there about what you thought would be helpful on like an annual basis to do with your GP or the kind of healthcare, I guess, care team that you're involved with. You want to talk a little bit about that. Lou Fratto: Yeah, I think we we shouldn't lose that in this whole, you know, yeah, there's all these great bells and whistles coming out and it's evolving faster than we can even keep up with. But let's not lose touch with the true and tried medical tests. You know, go to your doctor. You know, let's not let's not forget, go to your doctor every year or whenever they want you to go and get your test. You know, we're talking about like your you know, if if appropriate your PSA and your, you know, your bone density and a stress test and just a regular physical, you know, check your blood pressure, check your blood levels, you know, what else are colonoscopy, you know, mammograms, Keith: Mm-hmm. Lou Fratto: stuff like that. Let's not forget about that because those are the reason they test for those regularly and they've been testing those for years is because they are valuable, you know, and if you don't test them you're you're missing you can best miss something very big. And I want to do a what I call a cliffism. I've I've quoted him before but my buddy Cliff, he's a really special guy. he's you know got a great attitude on life and we were talking maybe a month ago and he said yeah you know I went and got my blood levels and I said what were the results and he goes I haven't gotten them back yet and and then th the conversation kind of evolved into like he was saying, you know, I'm okay with my mortality. You know, when it's my time I'm I'm fine. And he goes, but I don't want to die of something ridiculous that I could have caught in a blood test. Keith: Right. Lou Fratto: You know, and that's Keith: Yeah. Lou Fratto: kinda the whole point. And even if it's a chronic thing that's you know, that maybe you can't get rid of and and maybe isn't gonna kill you right away, it's best to catch it early so you can manage it as best possible, you know, and so Keith: Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a good point. I guess, you know, maybe it's like we we thinking about these personal technology things that we all have access to to give us numbers on a daily basis if we want is a complement to a more traditional plan on making sure that you round it out with regular visits and you know, it's not necessarily replacement, but they're complementary in some ways. And I guess one thing now that you can do with a lot of the fitness trackers is download, you know, a health report that you can actually share with, Lou Fratto: Mm. Keith: you know, your health providers, which isn't something we talked about before, but I Lou Fratto: Yeah. Keith: know that it's possible. So it should, Lou Fratto: Yeah. Keith: like you said, continue to open up, hopefully, a better opportunities for people to understand their their full picture when it comes to health and longevity and and just fitness in general. Lou Fratto: Yeah, it's just more information and information is power if you use it correctly. you know, the the wearables are giving you kind of real time data and like you said, filling in the gaps maybe between your standard tests and get but giving you more information and they can catch things maybe that could be a disaster. Like I've had a several patients whose watch told them they were in AFib, you know, and they had no idea. they f maybe they might have felt funny but they didn't know what it was and it said, Hey, you know, you're an aphib, you better get this checked. So something as simple as that is super powerful now, you know. Keith: Yeah. So do you want to get into wearables or is there anything that you want to talk about in more detail with that Lou Fratto: No, I think the well, the first part of the topic it's it's your standard test. I think the only thing I would add, and of course again, I am biased, I'm a physical therapist, is I would say go to a PT once a year and get tested for your balance and your how you move and your strength and that kind of thing. So I I I would add that too, you know. Keith: Yeah. I think that's a really good point, especially, you know, I mean, we're old, but as you get older, those kinds of things like balance and, you know, strength and a few other things become more important because I think you've mentioned before and in in the context of this episode as well, things like falls and you know, losing a little bit of that physical dexterity can be a real threat or I guess a real danger. especially as you get older. So it's almost like going to a physical therapist to understand what your baseline is when you're in your forties or fifties or sixties is probably a pretty important thing. Cause that's also something that you want to measure over time, I would imagine. Lou Fratto: Yeah, absolutely. So you can use like a d d data and technology to get a baseline and or just the skills of the physical therapist. But Keith: Right. Lou Fratto: like balance is something or lack of balance is something that sneaks up on you. It's like you lose a little bit if you know, if you're not working to keep it and to improve it. You lose a little bit every year and then all of a sudden just one day you're like, Well, you know, you you stumble or you fall and you're like, Wait, wow, where the heck did that come from? I That never would have happened to me before and so it's better to take a proactive approach with it. Keith: Yeah, I think that is really common. Well, you want to get into wearables and real time monitoring and other stuff. Lou Fratto: Yeah, yeah. I think that w just my take on wearables is you know, they w you should basically look at the trends with those. So there's they're all based on algorithms and each one of them has their own little sort of different twist on the algorithm. And so yeah. Keith: Hey, real quick, let's define what we mean when we talk about wearables, 'cause not everybody might know. Lou Fratto: okay. So like, you know, watches the wa the smart watches, the Keith: Mm-hmm. Lou Fratto: rings, the straps that you can wear. yeah, yeah, like I got I have two which we need to talk about. Keith: Double fisted. Yeah. we'll get into it. Lou Fratto: Yeah. and I have one on my ankle, but I can't show that one. That's one that keeps me in the house. Keith: All right. Yeah, that's a different kind of wearable. Lou Fratto: But no, so where w where were we? So the yeah. Keith: just just kind of defining what we mean when we say wearables, basically any sort of device that you can wear on your body that helps you track biometric health data, right? Okay. Lou Fratto: Yeah. And that's gonna be amazing because I envision someday where they put something internal if you allow it and it really tests everything, you know. Keith: Yeah. Okay. Well well, I mean, you know, they've been doing it for a long time with things like pacemakers and, you Lou Fratto: Yeah. Keith: know, some other devices now that are pretty invasive. But yeah, I'm sure we'll get there at some point. But right now it's on the outside of the body is what we're talking about. Lou Fratto: Yeah. Yes. Yes. And there is one thing that I thought of too. It's the blood glucose monitors that some people are wearing. it's like a continuous measurement of your glucose and just to expand upon that, it is pretty cool because you can learn some insights that you might not have thought of otherwise. like have a friend, Jeremiah, who did it and he was surprised that his blood sugar spiked after eating quinoa, but not after eating rice. So, you know, he was like, Wow, I never would have thought that, you know, 'cause it's not supposed to do that, but that was just an insight that he that he gained. And th and that's brings up another subject is that's these things can be powerful with giving you insights that you might not have ever thought of or ever put two and two together and I have my own kind of examples of that. And that's why I wanted you to when you get a chance to flash up the FedEx logo. Keith: You want me to now? Lou Fratto: if you can, if you can do it quickly. Put your Keith: Okay. Lou Fratto: there you go. So Keith: Look at that. Lou Fratto: So one of the this is a great example of an insight because if you look at the orange letters, the E and the X, there is an arrow between them. Right? And so Keith: Mm-hmm. Yep. Lou Fratto: until somebody points that out, or until you notice that yourself, you would look at this logo a thousand times and never see that. But once you see it, you'll never look at the logo the same. You know? So Keith: Yeah. Yeah. It's funny when you asked me to include that in there, it jogged my memory about why I I had last time I thought about the FedEx logo and then as soon as I saw it, I'm like, yeah, the arrow. Yeah, that's funny. Lou Fratto: Right, right. So it's a great example of an insight. So now he'll never look at Kinwath the same again, you know, and and s one of the insights that I learned when it when I got the Apple Watch, so I've had it for like four or five years or so, You know, I I I got it for certain reasons of maybe connecting to the phone and stuff like that and and I and then I realized that it had a vibration alarm. So I started wearing it at night, because when I would wake up early it wouldn't wake up the whole house with a regular, you know, alarm that I'd have to, you know, hit. It would just vibrate and I'd wake up and everybody else got to keep sleeping. So I thought that was fantastic. but then I started kind of paying attention to that it was tracking my sleep and everything and and I just realized there was How fragile a good night's sleep really is. You know, so for instance, it made me realize that even one or two drinks fragments my sleep, you know, with I'm talking about with alcohol. And also a late-night meal f totally screws up my sleep. And even though kind of knew that, I just never put two and two together. And it made me realize, okay, wow, you know, it's that has a big effect on my sleep. it doesn't necessarily change my activity much or it just but it you know, 'cause I'm still gonna go out with friends and have dinner and, you know, maybe we don't Keith: Right. So gonna live your life. Lou Fratto: Yeah. But but at least now I I'm aware, you know, and I'm making a decision based on knowing all that. So that was a cool insight. Keith: Yeah. Well, and it could be a small tweak. It could be, you know, I don't know, instead of having two or three drinks, you might cut it off at one and switch to water or something, knowing that if you have a a drink after nine o'clock, it kind of impacts you negatively. It might depend on what you have going on the next day. But I think you're right. Lou Fratto: Yeah. Keith: Like the ability to make connections between what your activity is and what the effect is and what that impact is. may lead into the discussion about perspective though, on how to kind of interpret the data and also maybe to keep it in perspective so that it doesn't become something that you obsess over. so before Lou Fratto: Right. Keith: before I interrupted you about wearables, you started to talk a little bit about the sort of algorithmic nature. So maybe Lou Fratto: Yeah. Keith: go back to that and talk, finish the thought if if you could on Lou Fratto: Okay. Keith: how to look at the data and and what that means when you talk about like algorithmic and trend data versus specific data points. Lou Fratto: Yeah. Yeah, so for me, where there are some specific data points that might catch a catastrophe or something that you really need to go check, it's I think they're more valuable with trends, you know. So you look at the trends and if you're and we said this I think on another podcast, if you're trending in the right direction, hey, great. If you're trending in the wrong direction, maybe put some thought to it and and try to fix it. You know, like you said though, without over obsessing about it and and that kinda brings up another point is sometimes these wearables are not right for for people. Like if you have a certain type of personality, you may they may drive you crazy and or may j you know, stress you out or whatever. And so there are certain people that just don't want to wear these things and I totally I I I I get what they're saying, you know. Keith: Yeah, I agree. And I know some people personally who have given them up because like you were talking about sleep. They felt like waking up every morning and getting a report about how poorly they slept was actually having a negative impact because they were stressing out about it. So they just ditched it. So, you know, having that perspective and trying to figure out, well, how am actually going to use this information? Is it going to be beneficial or is it going to be harmful? Is probably Lou Fratto: Right. Keith: a personal decision. But The idea of using them for trend analysis is one thing that, at least for me, has helped me keep it in perspective because I've had mine, which is a brand called Whoop, for about two years now. and I never really did a lot of deep thinking about the information that it was provided really until we started planning and talking about these things in the podcast. And the idea that it's measuring some things very precisely, but a lot of what it's presenting you with in terms of results is derived from an algorithm. It's not a direct measurement. And so when you kind of understand that, I think it also helps add perspective to, you know, the best way to use the information that it's kind of spitting out. Because it can't it can't measure everything just by sitting on your wrist or by being on your finger. Right. It has to take that data and make some inferences. Lou Fratto: Right. Keith: you know, to give you something that's actually useful. think the other thing that might help keep it in perspective for people is understanding that at least with the one that I'm wearing, the whoop, it's a subscription, just like a lot of other subscription products, right? And so, It has a vested interest in keeping you engaged, just like any other app that you use or social media app. so mine is a wrist tracker that comes with an app on my phone. And I'm a pretty heavy user of the app. but I've also noticed that there's a business model behind it. And there's constant like upsell opportunities within Lou Fratto: Ha ha. Keith: the app, right? we can give you more data if you, you know, increase the tier that you're subscribing to, or you can get more features if you upgrade to a better version of the device. So like I guess keep in mind that behind all of these things, whether it's an Apple Watch or a Whoop or, you know, anything that you wear, there's a business model there that's in that that has a goal of keeping you engaged with it and that sometimes can affect the information that it's that it's giving you. So another piece Lou Fratto: Yes. Keith: of perspective that kind of might help. Lou Fratto: Yeah, so speaking of insights, I had never considered that angle before before you told me that a couple of days ago and I went, wow, that is interesting, you know. Keith: Yeah. Yeah. Lou Fratto: That's interesting thought. I was talking to a patient the other day, and he's in great shape, and he's a cyclist, among other things. And and he's he's very into the tech, and so he's got you know he's gone through everything. He's got the Apple watch, the upgraded watch beyond this one. He's got whoop. He says, and then he's he's done cycling where he's worn a polar chest strap for his heart Keith: Mm-hmm. Lou Fratto: rate, and then the other two things, just to compare the actual. Accuracy, you know, and the poll I would say the chest straps are the most accurate, you know, for heart rate. And so, you know, and he was just saying, you know, okay, this one is more accurate than this one, and this one's way off, and this, that, and the other. And but anyway, he was talking about the whoop, and he said he thinks the whoop is trying to like egg him on a little bit because it was saying, hey, you know, you're you're you're aging a little faster than normal, and you know, it's so it's it's stroking him a little bit. Keith: Yep. Yeah. Dealt, same thing. Yeah. I mean, it has this this age score within it, you know. And the ideal is it's telling you, you're like much younger than your actual age. And I've had the same experience where about every month it'll tell me I have a new whoop age and I'll look at it and it will I mean it's good because it is a motivating factor for me. I mean, that's one of the reasons we're doing this podcast. We're both interested in like, you know, trying to feel and and you know. be younger than we are. but it definitely is one of those things where there's a lot of marketing behind it, right? Because Lou Fratto: Yeah. Keith: once you get invested in it, like I'm pretty invested in this thing, it would be a challenge for me to switch to a new device or even to get rid of it. I could still do the exact same things that I do now. I didn't need it, but now that I have it, I'm kind of locked in. So we'll see, you know. Lou Fratto: Yeah. Yeah, so a couple of things that came to mind as you were saying that. I think I fit in the middle. You know, there's the people that look at this stuff all the time and they use it and they really harness it all the time. And then there's the people that don't even want to see this stuff that that we talked about because it stresses them out or whatever. or they don't need it, you know. And I go I'll go through bouts where I'll use and I'll gather data for three or four months and then and then I get tired of it or whatever, or I get the insights that I need, the knowledge that I need. It teaches me. Whatever I was looking at, and then and then I don't need it for a while. I'll go six months, nine months without even looking at it, and then maybe something else will come up that I want to look at. For instance, this strap is the Hume longevity strap, and I gotta give them credit. They they got me with the marketing. It was like, man, I just wrote a book on longevity, and this is a strap based on longevity. I gotta get it, you know? It's yeah, so and it was on sale. And but one of the cool things about it was it. It has a pod that you stand on that you can get to, and I have both. So you stand on this thing, and it uses electrical impedance in your body and sophisticated technology and all this stuff. And they say it's 98% as accurate as the fancy test, like a DEXA scan that you'd pay a lot of money for. And it measures your body fat, it measures your muscle content, it measures your lean lean mass, your fat mass, it measures your bone. Bone density, just all kinds of cool things. And at the time I had some patients who were coming to me and were concerned about losing muscle mass because they were on GLP ones. And I had other patients who were coming to me and they were concerned about their bone density. So I said, okay, well this will be cool. I'll get the pod and I'll test it on myself and just kind of see, you know, what kind of feedback it gives me. And then I got some baseline numbers. I said, okay, let me change my workouts to try to improve these numbers. And so for about three months I changed and and I saw the numbers trending in the right directions and it was just kinda like those things I already knew, but it it reaffirmed that and and now I'm kind of at the phase where I'm like, okay, I know enough information from this stuff. I'm kinda getting tired of looking at it and I'll probably put it away for a while and you know, give maybe get back to it in the future. I don't know. Keith: Yeah, that's a good use case. I mean, I've had similar experiences of going in and out of of spending you know, how much time I spend with looking at my stuff as well. But maybe you talked about that being on kind of a spectrum. Do you kind of feel like you're in the middle? do you want me to bring up that slide from an extreme version? So here's Lou Fratto: Yeah. Yeah yeah. Keith: why don't you talk about this slide that you put together? I think Lou Fratto: Yeah, so Keith: you use it in some of your Seminars too. Lou Fratto: Yeah, yeah, I've this is a slide from my one of my longevity seminars. And the whole point of this slide is you can optimize yourself right out of a fun life. You know, and Brian Johnson, you know, he is I actually the from what I know about him, I watched his documentary, so I don't yeah, I don't know him personally, but I actually I don't mind the guy like him for for he's honest. You know, he's like, Look, I am obsessive compulsive, I've battled depression, I've had, you know, a lot of issues, I have all this money. He sold his company for close to a billion dollars. He has all this time on his hands, and he says, Look, I'm gonna be the guinea pig. I'm gonna do this treatment or this technology, and it's either gonna kill me or it's gonna help me live to 160 or whatever. And you know so I like him for his honesty. But but he's a great example in my opinion of overdoing it. And this is basically his schedule. So I think he wakes up at like 530 and he goes to bed at 8 or 830 because I can't see it closely here. But but basic Keith: You got it about right. Lou Fratto: yeah he's essentially doing from he's going from one optimization thing to another and he just I I just don't know Where is he finding time to live? Keith: Right. Yeah. Well, I think you said as well, like he's pretty honest about it, like you know, the fact that it may not be the most healthy approach. And I think is again represents the extreme end of what you can do, if you had unlimited, relatively unlimited money Lou Fratto: Yeah. Keith: and time and focus, and on the other end of the spectrum is completely ignoring you know, your health. data and information and doing nothing. But I think everybody needs to find maybe that middle ground. And you know, it's interesting. I was I'm writing a series of articles for the Substack about what I've been doing with the fitness tracker and some of the AI. And r writing it out. So in my mind, I feel like I also am kind of middle, you know, of the road when it comes to how much time I spend thinking about this stuff. But as I sat down to write it out, I started to look at it and say, Yeah, people are gonna think I'm a crazy person because it's like 15 steps. But Lou Fratto: Holy cow. Keith: then I realized too, it took me about four times as long to write it out as it takes me to do what I'm doing. You know, so I don't Lou Fratto: Funny. Keith: know. I don't know where that puts me. but you know, people can make their own judgment. But I mean, for me, what I've been doing, I'm gonna talk about it maybe in a little I'll talk about it a little bit here, but then go into more depth, like I said, in the in the sub stack. And if y'all are not signed up for our Substack, please do that. But so I've been trying to take the information that I get from the fitness tracker and combine it with a standard AI chatbot and take some of the some of the things that we've talked about in this podcast. and create some goals around nutrition, sleep, and exercise and make little changes, like is one of our other kind of core principles of what we're doing with Thrive AF is that you have all these levers. You don't need to make huge changes to make impacts on your life. And so to put that into practice. And so what I've been doing is taking pictures of everything that I ate. For I started out with 10 days, but then just extended it. And I will put that into an ongoing chat in Gemini, which is what I'm using. And not to really get detailed necessarily like calorie counts and stuff like that. But what I've always understood about nutrition is that a good step towards cleaning up your diet is a food log. I've never been good at doing it because I get lazy. And, you know, when I would try and keep a manual food log, I couldn't do it. But To me, it's a really good use of like an AI chatbot is that you can now just take a picture of everything you eat and pop it in there and do it really quickly. And it gives you feedback along the way if you tell it a little bit about what you're trying to accomplish. And so for me, one of the things that I was able to do is start making small food substitutions, right? So I might have s some things that I would eat as snacks or as lunch. And the AI started to give me potential options to swap things out. Small Lou Fratto: Mm. Keith: changes, right? So moving from like a store bought regular peanut butter to a natural peanut butter that doesn't have sugar in it or seed oils was one small thing. adding more protein to my diet based on what I was doing with exercise. So it's been an interesting kind of experiment. And then keeping the taking the data that I get from my wearable and taking a summary of that and putting it into the same like chat thread has added then a layer of exercise and nutrition together that you can take a look at and have an ongoing discussion about if you have specific goals. Like for me, I wanted to do more zone one and zone two running or cardio. on top of the CrossFit stuff that I've been doing. Cause that's one of the things that you talked about in our earlier episode about exercise and movement was having a balance between high intensity and lower intensity stuff leads to better longevity. So when I took a look at what I was doing was very, very CrossFit focused, that piece of it was missing. So like intentionally adding more of that zone one and zone two training into my plan, I think has been a good thing. And now I've got 30 plus, you know, well, probably more like 45 days of where I set a baseline based on what my whoop was able to give me from from a from a metric standpoint and add these new things into what I'm doing with exercise. And now 30 or 45 days later take a look at it and see how things have changed. And I've seen some positive results come out of that. Which again I'll probably I will share in more detail on the sub stack, but and and to me it still feels like I'm not optimizing myself crazy. But again, Lou Fratto: Normal. Keith: like that's I don't know. I don't know if everybody would look at it and feel that way. So Lou Fratto: Right. And I'm glad you you shed some light on that because when you showed me the graphics that you that w the AI put together my first thought was, okay, what is he trying to accomplish here so I can put it into context, you know, and so I know you're gonna elaborate on that with your articles forthcoming and in the substack, so that's gonna be cool. I I'm gonna put I'll be able to actually put it into context. But the the other thing that's funny is It dep you know, and you asked me the other day, you said, Hey, do do you think I'm like on the crazy side of of this stuff? And how how crazy are you? And I'm like, Well, it depends who you ask, you know. Keith: Yeah. Lou Fratto: if you were to ask my wife, for example, she's thinks I'm she I might as well be Brian Johnson's you know, twin or something. She's i if she tells people, He wakes up at crazy hours and he works out like a madman and he goes to jujitsu and he He fights all these people and he you know and he he'll never eat anything bad and dah dah dah and all this stuff and I you know, and that's her take and you know, I don't know, you know, and and actually a lot of my friends think I'm definitely on the side of probably over yeah, overdoing it too, because you know, that's it's not their thing. So I don't know. I you know, it's yeah. Keith: Yeah. Right. Well, it yeah, it's hard to tell. I guess like w when I I approach this, I guess a couple things that try to make it accessible. So the technology part of it. Like I don't think it's that I don't think it's that odd now to have some sort of a device, whether it's a dedicated fitness tracker or an Apple Watch that has the ability to track your fitness. And that's pretty accessible to most people. So it's not like we're doing something that's way out of the norm. And then I also think if you were to layer on some of the things that I'm doing with an AI chatbot, it's also pretty accessible. It's just to the degree in which you might be willing to invest and how much time you have to invest in doing it. And like when I first started trying to put together this plan of of what to do, it felt like a lot, but now it's just part of my morning routine. And Lou Fratto: Yeah. Keith: you know, it doesn't take me that long and it doesn't feel that weird. I'm not sure I'll do it forever, but I mean, like having a food log and to be able to look at it and say over a certain amount of time, here's everything that I ate is beneficial. And if you, you know, have any sort of goals around whether it's weight loss or whatever, fitness goals, it's there and it's accessible for most people. And you don't have to be an excess obsessive compulsive to actually get some. benefit out of it. Lou Fratto: Yeah. Keith: I hope. And maybe that's something that'll come through and what we're talking about here and also the stuff that we're writing on the substack and sharing. So Lou Fratto: Yeah, it's definitely gotten easier to keep track of a lot of stuff. you know. Keith: Yeah, it really has. Yeah. Lou Fratto: Yeah, that's a AI makes it great. And then it can assimilate it and it can give you recommendations in like two seconds, which is unbelievable. But and one one other point is is that I think that's why I love having friends around and of course my wife too, who are very you know, they they love yeah, Keith: They hulk around you. Lou Fratto: they love life and they love having fun and they don't obsess about the future too much and about health and everything and so they ground me and they keep me having fun and And so I I love them for that and they put up with my insanity at times. And but then again I think s some, maybe a little bit of my health consciousness rubs off on other people at times. I I don't know, you know. My daughter too, she just rolls her eyes. Keith: Yeah. Well, they've got time. Like our our children have time to figure all this stuff out. And it'll probably be different by the time they're ready to invest in it. But I mean, hopefully it's good. I mean, it's good information for people that are listening to this and sort of consuming it to think about, you know, and I I really enjoy having conversations about this with other people at at the gym. Because everybody has their own little approach and a lot of them have the same kind of devices and things. And again, that's a small subset of people that are obviously very invested in their health and fitness. But there's so many ways I think that you can use this stuff to to help support whatever your goal is. And I'm really Lou Fratto: Yeah. Keith: be interested to have more conversations about it with, you know, folks. in the real world, but also potentially like when we start in season two and having people on the show, I think it'll be a really fun thing to talk about you know, what people are doing in their daily lives around this stuff because it's changing pretty rapidly. Yeah. Lou Fratto: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Keith: Yeah. The other thing that's been good for me is it's it's helped me change my point of view on some things about nutrition like When I would take a recovery day or a rest day and I wasn't working out, I would think, well, I need to not eat as much because I'm not exercising to kind of balance that. And I think that's opposite of what conventional wisdom is and maybe was doing the wrong thing, because the recovery day is supposed to be where you're building back up your energy stores and you're repairing, you know, whatever damage you've done. So you need to feed your body. the right stuff even on a recovery day, even though it feels like you're eating a lot. So that was like a mind shift to me that I hadn't really thought about before, that maybe you or is just c more conventional wisdom for people that study this more. But to me it was kind of like, I I didn't really think about that. And it was counterintuitive to me, but I've changed my it's changed my whole point of view on it. So Lou Fratto: Yeah, and let's give credit to the to the companies and the guys who were the first ones talking about recovery and monitoring your recovery. We talked about that in a previous podcast, like your heart rate variability, and I I did my best to define that. And you know that's just made a lot of people aware of how hard they're working themselves and how much they need to recover. And it's helped to to emphasize the importance of recovery. And I wanted to give a shout out told me about heart rate variability. This was about 15 years ago maybe. And his name is TJ Kenoki and he is my jujitsu one of my jiu-jitsu teachers and he's also a really great personal trainer and athletic trainer and he's in the the Boca Raton area you can look him up if you want to but he he he told me about it and he said hey have you heard about this thing you know it's called heart rate variability and they're they're looking at how hard you've been training and how much recovery you need and if you know and if your recovery's really good then they work the people out really hard and if if you've been working out too hard then they'll take an easy day. I said, no, wow, I'll I'll go home and look that up. So I looked it up and then I've been toying around with it ever since. But he was the one that turned me on to that. So I wanted to give him credit. Keith: So if it was that long ago, how were they how were they measuring it? Were the were the wearables and stuff actually that good back then? I can't remember. Lou Fratto: No, no. It was like the w the way that I did, I I searched for an app and I found an app on my phone and you had to hold your finger against the camera lens and it would measure it that way. So definitely not as accurate as it is now. And you and Keith: That sounds like a gimmick to me, but Lou Fratto: Yeah, well, it did its best to measure it and and you know, and it would tell you, okay, do it every the same time every day and I you know, I think it was like right when you wake up was a good time to do it. It just didn't Keith: I got it. Lou Fratto: g it didn't give you continuous measurement like it does now, but you know, it was Keith: Right, right. So because it yeah, because it was you were kind of doing some of the work manually that now is probably being done by the device algorithmically or whatever, today. So Lou Fratto: Yeah, I know this is gonna be like a probably way too long of a podcast, but can we talk about the the definition of resting heart rate? Do you think that would be valuable? Keith: Yes. Yeah. I had a discussion with my wife about it last night based on what you and I talked about in the pre call, so go for it. Lou Fratto: Yeah. Well so like I I somehow I re s I got the idea to research this because I was getting with these two things, you know, I was getting conflicting results on my resting heart rate and I was just like, well how can they be so far off? And what I found out is that the different bands and the different technologies have a different definition of resting heart rate. And so for instance, Whoop and Aura tend to calculate your resting heart rate when you're in your deepest levels of sleep, you know. So you might get a really low number as a result, you know, like if you're in good shape, you might be in the forties. and then the Apple Watch tends to average it out during the day when you are like n not active. So it might even be considering right now you and I talking as it might be calculating that in as my resting heart rate. So it's you're sitting there and you're a awake and you're doing something but not super active and that's how it calculates resting heart rate. And then the Hume tends to average it out throughout the day, you know, no matter what you're doing. So if you have a job like mine where you're super you know, you're active the whole day, pushing, pulling, manipulating, walking and doing all this stuff. It's going to give you your resting heart rate based on that. So because it's an average throughout the day. So I might get in the 40s with the watch tell you know when it measures it. because I have an app that'll measure it at my deepest sleep. And so it might say 40 something, which would be akin to say what the whoop would say. And then The regular Apple Health algorithm might tell me my resting heart rate is more like in the fifties, and then maybe even low sixties, and then this thing is telling me 70s, high seventies, and so you know, depending on which one you look at, you get a way a totally different picture of my, you know, car cardiovascular conditioning, unless you know that it's you know different in the context. Keith: Yeah. So how do you kind of rationalize all that? I mean Like, I mean, if you didn't know, if you only had one, like Lou Fratto: I don't. Yeah. Keith: you might think, why is this thing, you know, telling me that I'm super out of shape? But luckily, I guess you have multiple measurements that you can then figure out like which one to actually listen to. But Lou Fratto: Right. Keith: I guess the point there is it well, one of the points might be, depending on, as you said, which device you have, and if you only have one or if you have multiple, it's you need to really understand what some of those measurements. are based on to give you the Lou Fratto: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Keith: right context and figure out what to do with it. Because you could have a like a very skewed vision of some very baseline things if you don't understand the way that the device is calculating it and measuring it. Right. Lou Fratto: Yeah, so you could be let's say you had the Hume ban and it was telling you your resting heart rate is seventy nine and then you talk to your friend who's got the whoop and he's like, Yeah, mine's forty six You're like, Keith: Yeah. Lou Fratto: What's going on, man? I am like out of shape or something you know, whatever. it's Keith: Yeah. Yeah. I think I had a thing similar to that when I was running with a couple of friends a few weeks ago and I don't know what kind of trackers they had, but we stopped. We were doing like four minutes on, one minute off. these are my friends Danny and Jason, shout out podcast listeners, and they were looking at their heart rate and they had they said their numbers and I looked at mine and it was much lower. And we're not that much different in terms of fitness level. And I was like, that's weird. Like, and I wonder now if it was due to the fact that maybe we had different devices and they were measuring things. Because at the time I thought it was very odd that there was such a difference, but it's good to know. Lou Fratto: Yeah, and also, yeah, what should be noted is that the the wrist bands, the watches and whatever, I I think are miserable at they do a terrible job at measuring your heart rate when you're super active. Like if you're doing like a crossfit workout or you're doing a really hard weight workout or even if you're sweating and you're doing like a really hard run or something, the to me the accuracy gets worse and worse and worse. And so that's why I actually had invested in a a polar heart rate strap that goes around your chest. And those are under a hundred dollars. Yeah and those Keith: And that's much better. Yeah. Lou Fratto: are more accurate But so the harder you work out to me, the the less the accuracy is for the wrist device. So let's say you're on the Schwinn Airdyne and you're just going crazy, you know, and Keith: Yeah. Lou Fratto: well you're you're engaging these l these tendons. Yeah, and these tendons here, and so it Keith: accelerometers or whatever they're called. I thought you mm Lou Fratto: it's the accuracy goes out the window. So that should be taken into account. Keith: Yeah. And I maybe that's supports another point though, where even though you might let's say you have a device or multiple devices, and they're measuring things, it goes back measuring things differently. I think it also points back to the idea of using it as a trend analysis because I guess from what I understand, even if this device measures differently than one that you're wearing, if I have two years of trend data, that trend data Lou Fratto: Right. Keith: should be Correct because it's me, right? And it's using the same measurement on me over time. Therefore, I may not be I may get a different resting heart rate than if I was wearing another device. But the trend for that resting heart rate should be accurate, at least, you know, it, you know, where one was 70 and one was 40. If I was doing the right things and that was improving, I should see that regardless of the specific measurement. If that makes sense. Lou Fratto: Yeah, totally. So as long as you stick with the same device it's it's valuable. Yeah. Keith: Right, right. But realize that if you switch or if you add another one, you're gonna have to rationalize the the data that you're getting at some point. But the trend line is still valid. Lou Fratto: Yeah. Yeah, and I saw this story I think online, so I don't know if it's actually accurate, but I think Woop really made their name and they really shot through the stratosphere in their sales because a professional golfer was wearing a whoop and during COVID times and it alerted him I think something about his body temperature had ticked up a little bit and it and and it said, Hey, you know, this is a sign of something or whatever. So I think he went to the doctor and they discovered that he had COVID really early on as a result Keith: Interesting. Lou Fratto: of what the whoop told him. and I think that made Whoop just blow up with popularity back in the that time frame of COVID. But that's kinda cool. You know, it's a i he Keith: Yeah. Lou Fratto: had a certain baseline and then it ticked up. He went to the doctor and they found out he had COVID back in the early days of COVID. Keith: Huh. Yeah, I mean, I just started noticing them at the gym. Everybody started wearing them. And then another thing goes back to marketing. Like part of part of, I don't know if the other ones do this, but Whoop will give you like a free 30 days if you give your code to another person, you know. So somebody, you know, at the gym was like, hey, I asked them about it and they said, You want to try it here, use my code. They got a free 30 days on their subscription because I signed up. And then when Lou Fratto: Nice. Keith: I got a new device, because I was eligible for an upgrade, I passed mine on to Dana and so there's an incentive to do that because then I got a free 30 days just by passing my old device to my wife who signed up for it. So it's a pyramid scheme, you know. Lou Fratto: Nice. Smart. Yeah. Smart. Keith: Kind of like us trying to get people into subscribe to our substack and Lou Fratto: Exactly. Keith: all right. Well, we have gone on quite a while, but this is a really good topic. So Lou Fratto: Yeah. Keith: I don't mind. We can split it up if we have to. But yeah, I mean I guess there's a lot going on in this space with technology. There's a lot of helpful things. You got to keep it in perspective, figure out what works for you. And maybe what you and I talk about here might people might think that we're crazy people, but to us it feels normal. Lou Fratto: Yeah. Look, we're doing it for research for the podcast, okay? Keith: That's right. That's right. We're serious, serious researchers. I would really love to, you know, I can't I would really love to hear from other people and have these discussions about what people are doing because I just think it's a really interesting thing to talk about. So I guess that's a plug for anybody that's listening or watching. would love to get your comments on the episode on the Substack articles. Let us know what you're doing and look forward to having guests on in season two so we can talk about this and and other stuff. So Lou Fratto: Yeah, absolutely. And I wanna give a a thank you to Cece who wrote the article, the Substack article, Every Day is Leg Day. I thought, Keith: That was really good. Lou Fratto: yeah, she I know her and she is a unbelievable person and it doesn't s d all of that that she wrote in there is true and it doesn't surprise me if you know her. Doesn't surprise me. Keith: Yeah. Really great article, really good inspiration, good story. Hopefully we'll have more guest contributors. I know that we've got a couple that we're working on for the subsack stories as well. So I think that's gonna be great. So looking ahead, we have two more episodes that are gonna be based on the chapters of your book before we get into season two. And next episode we're gonna talk about social connections, I think. Lou Fratto: okay. Keith: That's the next chapter and then the finer chapter is gonna be habits. Lou Fratto: Yeah, yeah. Mm. Keith: So and that'll be wrapping up. Then we move into big season two where things get really, really exciting. Lou Fratto: Yes. Keith: you wanna Yeah. Just blathering on for an hour and a half. Lou Fratto: I think it will be. It'll be fun to have people on, you know, peop different than us. Shark fighters. Keith: do you wanna do quick shout outs? I've got a couple. Lou Fratto: I did my C C for sure. Keith: Okay. Lou Fratto: and then I did my correction with Evelyn and let's see. yeah, Doug for continuing to live a adventurous life so we can have a packed podcast with him someday. Keith: Absolutely. Shout out, Doug. yeah, I already gave one out to Carl, my fishing sensei. So thanks for listening, Carl. And he gives me good feedback in person and also comments on the stuff. So thanks for doing that. another couple listeners from CrossFit Terminus Morning Crew. Greg Jeffrida. he's a Paisan, very, very consistent, has told me a few Times that he listens to the podcast and he's enjoying it. It's a little confusing Lou Fratto: Nice. Keith: because I have another friend named Greg Gianfrito who's also a Paisan. Do you remember Greg Gianfrito from yeah? Lou Fratto: my god. Yeah, I saw him in your picture that you sent me when you were down in yeah. Keith: Yeah, so yeah, very close name, but spelled differently. So shout out to both Gregs. Lou Fratto: my gosh. Wow. Keith: another listener who's in the early morning crew at Terminus, Alex Sales. He is a really nice young Buck, really good athlete, and has mentioned that he's listened to all the episodes. So thanks Alex for tuning in. couple birthday shout-outs. my friend Andy Rosebuck Rosebuck had a birthday. You might know him as Axe. Lou Fratto: Yeah. That says it all right there. Keith: Yeah, that says it all. He was yeah. Saw him when we were down in Sarasota, so happy birthday, Axe. And Lou Fratto: He has had an adventurous life, I am sure. Yeah. definitely. Keith: yeah, yeah. I told him he needs to come on the podcast. Lou Fratto: I ha I remember him though, but he was fun. Keith: Another birthday. one of our coaches at Terminus is a little bit belated, but Coach Chase had a birthday a couple weeks ago. And funny story about Coach Chase is you know, you did an article about grip strength early on in the Substack. And I don't know if you know this, but in CrossFit, a lot of people will wear gymnastic grips for doing pull-ups so that your hands Lou Fratto: Mm-hmm. Keith: don't rip. And Chase actually shamed me into getting rid of my gymnastic pull-up grips and you know because it was not supporting grip strength and so I did I had to I had to take on the challenge. I couldn't yet I couldn't let the I couldn't let the young wolf come at the alpha without responding. So I have ditched the grips and I'm a better man for it. So Lou Fratto: That's great that you still refer to yourself as the alpha. That's like you know, perspective is reality. Keep thinking that That's great. Keith: Yeah. Yeah, I'm the alpha. Give me a break. Lou Fratto: you know what that's what's fun about this stuff is not taking it too seriously, but making small little changes here and there that you know, that hopefully Keith: Yeah. Lou Fratto: keep us keep us enjoying life, right? Keith: Yeah, indeed for sure. Well, happy birthday, Chase. Appreciate you. All right. I'm also gonna bring up here we had a nice comment from a friend of mine, Neron Hinton, about nutrition. the funny thing about this comment is he's referencing some quotes that came probably fifteen plus years ago from my business partner Ben, who is Lou Fratto: Yeah. Keith: one of the owners of CrossFit Terminus, and these are actual quotes that he gave us about bacon and how pig grease is better than grains. There's a million ways to die and how you have control over the ways that result from what you put in your body. anyway, he as Neron said he first heard this advice 16 years ago and he's beginning to understand that he can no longer out-exercise a bad diet. So thanks for listening, Neron. he's another Lou Fratto: Yeah. Nice. Keith: person we should have on the podcast because he's probably outside of my gym buddy Anita, who I started going to CrossFit with. he's one of my oldest. companions from the early days from like day one. So he he and his family moved a little bit further out. So we haven't gotten to work out together in a long time, but we keep in touch and he's a really great guy. And he's Lou Fratto: Cool. That's cool. Keith: he is a still kicking it. he's a little bit older than us, but he's still going to the gym and doing the right thing. So Lou Fratto: Nice. Keith: it's a good deal. All right. I think that's all I got. Lou Fratto: I got one more. I just thought of it. A buddy Keith: All right, hit me. Alright. Lou Fratto: of ours from a long time ago, Chris DeGance. Keith: Yes. Lou Fratto: He has a new product. I think it's new. I mean I just heard about it. Called Dr. C's Party Patch. I think he c it's what it's called to be specific. Sorry, Chris, if I mis misnamed it. I'm not sure. I don't know. I don't I Keith: Is he is he the Doctor C in this, as in Doctor Cr Who is this mysterious Doctor C? Lou Fratto: I have to ask him, Keith: All right. Lou Fratto: Yeah, that we'll have to have him on the podcast to ask about it. But he sent me and yeah, just me a a a a sample of these patches and what they again, this is not medical advice, but what they're supposed to do is if you go right, not yet, Chris, not yet. Keith: Not a paid endorsement, not a paid endorsement. Lou Fratto: Nike could be calling too, we never know. But anyway, so if the the patches are supposed to if you put on before you go out you know, and have maybe a later night than usual with your friends and maybe you have a few drinks and you leave the patch on, you know, throughout the night and then as you're asleep, it's supposed to, you know, help you feel better in the morning. So Keith: Okay. Lou Fratto: I tried it. I put the patch on. I only had I think two drinks, but usually when I at This at my lofty age that I'm at now, when even two drinks when I wake up in the morning the next morning. I'm not I wouldn't call it hungover, but I'm I just drag and my I have brain fog. And Keith: Yep. Yep. Lou Fratto: I don't think I had it with the patch. I have felt I felt better, and that's an honest, Keith: Okay. Lou Fratto: honest opinion. Maybe it helped me sleep a little better. We already talked about how I get this fragmented sleep, and I don't remember waking up like every hour like I usually do and I I I think I felt better. So Keith: Hm. Okay. Lou Fratto: kudos to Chris and I hope the patches take off and I could say it helped me. Keith: All right. Well, I'm gonna need some of these patches and we're gonna have to test. Lou Fratto: Ha ha. Keith: We're definitely gonna need some when we go back to the football game in October. That'll be the big test. We might have to wear like four or five of them. Yeah. Lou Fratto: Right. For sure. So stay tuned. Stay tuned. Keith: Indeed. All right, cool. Well, I guess we should do our favorite part of the podcast. Sign off. Yes. Lou Fratto: let's get it right this time. Keith: All right, we're on it. All right. You want me to start? All Lou Fratto: Yes. Keith: right. Until next time. Lou Fratto: Keep challenging yourself. Keith: Keep growing. And keep thriving AF. Lou Fratto: And keep thriving. Screwed it up again. Keith: People are gonna think we're doing it on purpose, but we're not. We're just bad. All right, buddy. Good chat with you. And Lou Fratto: We're really not. We're just amateurs, what can I say? All right. Keith: long episode, good show, long show, as they say. I may have to chop it up, but we'll figure it out. Yeah, man. Thanks, Lou. Bye. Lou Fratto: It was fun though. Take care, man. Alright, later. Bye.