Latest / Mortgage Marketing Radio / Ep #102: Getting More Agent Referrals by Going Deep vs Wide with Agents

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Ep #102: Getting More Agent Referrals by Going Deep vs Wide with Agents · Mortgage Marketing Radio

• 0:00
  In today's highly competitive mortgage industry, building profitable relationships with
• 0:04
  the real estate agents is essential for success.
• 0:06
  However, finding effective ways to secure agent relationships can be a challenge.
• 0:11
  With so many mortgage loan originators vying for the attention of real estate agents, it
• 0:15
  can be difficult to stand out and establish meaningful connections.
• 0:20
  Our new case study featuring loan officer Chris Cogill is a must-read.
• 0:25
  Chris has closed a remarkable 36 million in funded loans from agent referrals.
• 0:31
  And in this case study, he shares his proven strategies for building strong relationships
• 0:34
  with real estate agents and leveraging those relationships to drive more business.
• 0:39
  To get your hands on this resource, head over to LOKestudy.com and download your free copy
• 0:45
  of the case study today.
• 0:47
  You'll find actionable insights and practical tips that Chris used to close 36 million
• 0:52
  in funded loans from agent referrals and how you can too.
• 0:56
  Don't miss out.
• 0:57
  Go check it out right now, visit LOKestudy.com and download your free copy today.
• 1:17
  Hey listeners, Jeff Zimper of your humble host, thanks again for tuning into this episode
• 1:38
  of mortgage marketing radio, depending upon when you're hearing this, hopefully you're
• 1:42
  doing one of two things.
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  Closing out the year strong or hitting the ground running as you enter the new year with
• 1:49
  the wind at your back with your business plan in place.
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  By the way, speaking of a business plan, most agents are in the same boat you are at this
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  time of year.
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  They're looking at planning their business for the new year.
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  And guess what they oftentimes need and they're open to and that's help.
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  Help in terms of getting clear on their goals, getting clear on their why, getting clear
• 2:11
  on the how, right, because a business plan can be complex or can be simple.
• 2:15
  I believe it should be simple and it should be a living breathing document that change
• 2:19
  and tivots when necessary with the market, for example.
• 2:22
  And so one of the things we offer you, our loyal listeners, if you choose to become a pro
• 2:27
  member of mortgage marketing institute, is we offer you a growing library of turnkey,
• 2:32
  instant download, lunch and learn, kick ass agent classes, that'll be my new tagline,
• 2:38
  kick ass agent class.
• 2:39
  What do you think?
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  But speaking of a business planning, one of the new classes we just added in there is
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  business planning, right, planning your best year ever, right?
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  How do you get clear on what you want and how to get it?
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  And that's as simple as it needs to be as number one, decide what you want, right?
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  Number two, decide why and then number three, decide how, because you may have heard
• 3:00
  it said that if your why is big enough, you'll figure out the how.
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  And so this business plan template is designed to add tons of value to real estate agents
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  through teaching this class.
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  By the way, I just got off a different podcast recording where this loan officer talked
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  about business planning.
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  It's been a fact it's the session I'm introducing right now.
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  And so that's what made me remember to tell you guys about this class and the other classes
• 3:23
  that are in the library over at the mortgage marketing, not pro membership.
• 3:27
  So not only that, do you get all the power points, the templates, the video tutorial that
• 3:31
  done for you, flyer, how to use Eventbrite to schedule your events and automate the follow-up.
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  Not only do we give you all that awesome content and teach you how to get butts in the seats
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  and loans in your pipelines, we have an entire system in there for you every single month,
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  a brand new class, but also we've got other things in there that are useful for you as
• 3:51
  you're looking at your business for 2019, right?
• 3:54
  Which is how to get better at your sales conversions, what are your scripts, what are your
• 3:57
  talk tracks, how to build your online brand and succeed on social media with Facebook
• 4:02
  and ads and videos and so forth.
• 4:04
  All that's in there for you if you want to become a mortgage marketing pro member, obviously
• 4:08
  where do you check it out, links in the show notes, but go to mortgagemarketing.row for
• 4:13
  more.
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  All right, so with that said, speaking of that, my special guest is Debbie C. Cord and
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  along with her is her business development person that she recently brought on the last
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  year.
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  Katie Shive.
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  Katie shout out to you for connecting me to Debbie, Katie's been a long time listener, first
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  time interviewee on the podcast, couldn't have done it without you, Katie, so thanks a
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  lot for you and what you do.
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  And of course, thank you to Debbie for sharing your wisdom, 20 years in the business.
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  She's up in Reno, Nevada, just up north from me, just a short six hour drive, but a shorter
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  45 minute flight.
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  So given the option, I think I'll be flying up to CU Debbie and take it out for a coffee
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  or whatever.
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  But anyway, so Debbie, 20 years in the business, guild mortgage, rock star consistently does
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  about 64, 65 million a year, 260 families, she helps every year, folks, that's a lot of
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  loans.
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  All right, and we're going to unpack lots of different things on this episode, which is
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  her realtor strategy, going deep versus wide, which one is better, what's different you
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  choose.
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  We're going to talk about events again, you know, it's funny.
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  In the interviews that I've been doing, especially lately, a lot of these veteran originators,
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  so depending on your tenure in this career, whether you're here, three years, five years,
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  20 years, a lot of us who've been around in this industry, like me since 2003, we've seen
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  some of these strategies that have been out there for quite a long time, events, pop
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  buys, right, things like that.
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  And I just love it when I hear, again, the same message from another top producer, 260 loans
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  closed in a year.
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  How would you like to do that if you're not already doing it?
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  Okay.
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  Success leaves clues, folks.
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  It is episode WC cord, Katie Shive, they're talking about how they leverage events, how
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  they're leveraging video.
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  One of the reasons Debbie brought Katie on is to help Debbie become a modern originator
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  and start to implement video and hold her accountable on that.
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  So it's a great dynamic between the two of them about how she makes that happen.
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  And then we're going to talk about how she deals with TBDs, something she calls her Thursday,
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  hot shoppers, a book study, masterminds that she does with real estate agents.
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  Literally this is just a crash course in how to build a sustainable, reliable, purchase
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  referral business, yet how to also diversify and get online and make that happen for you
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  as well, even if you're an old dog.
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  All right.
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  So once again, thank you for being here.
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  If you like this podcast or like the show, hey, let us know.
• 6:40
  Leave us a review, some comments, wherever you're listening to this, iTunes, Stitcher, go
• 6:45
  over to our Facebook page.
• 6:46
  And by the way, if you haven't yet joined the private group on Facebook, just go to Facebook
• 6:49
  and type in mortgage marketing radio, boom, you'll be taken to our group.
• 6:52
  Just ask for entry, permission, love to have you join that growing community where we
• 6:56
  share additional content and resources and training for you guys.
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  And that said, let's get into this week's show.
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  Debbie Katie, welcome to the show.
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  Thank you, Jack.
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  Hi, thank you.
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  All right.
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  So I've done these sessions before on the podcast where we've got two people calling in.
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  So it makes sense to first let's identify who's who, so people can associate the person
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  with the voice.
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  Debbie, why don't you go first, tell us who you are, what you do.
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  You're up.
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  Okay.
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  My name is Debbie.
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  Say, Cord.
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  And I've been in lending a loan officer about 20 plus years, so let you know how old I might
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  be.
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  And I just love what we do here.
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  So when I'm with Guildmorgge.
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  Awesome.
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  Katie.
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  Perfect.
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  My name is Katie Shive, and I work on WC Quartz team.
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  My focus is business development and marketing.
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  So that looks like making sure our events, business partners and clients that are really
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  loved on and happy and well communicated to you.
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  All right.
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  How long have you guys been working together?
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  A little over a year.
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  I've been on Debbie's team since last fall, so just a little over a year, actually.
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  And it was truly one of my best hires.
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  I mean, she has our master's degree in marketing, and she's bringing us into the new modern
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  millennial.
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  And it's such a huge benefit to our team.
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  All right.
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  So we're going to talk about that in a second.
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  Debbie, I want to set up for those listeners that people are naturally curious all the
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  time.
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  Give us like a 2017 roughly volume units.
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  We're pretty much somewhere in the market of 64 to 69 million a year.
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  And that's been pretty consistent for the past four years.
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  And we're probably a good mix of conventional FHA and builder business.
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  And that's around 260 to 270 units per year.
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  Wow.
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  A lot of loans.
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  And you are in, of course, Reno, Nevada, just north of me a little bit here.
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  Yes.
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  Michael, just talk about Reno all day, actually.
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  I dig in.
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  I love it.
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  But that's not why we're here.
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  Let's talk business.
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  OK, so you mentioned for a second, Katie, she was the best hire you ever made.
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  And she's bringing you into, helping to bring you into the quote, I'll use the word.
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  You use this millennial market, right?
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  Or whatever.
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  I assume by you, you brought Katie on.
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  Let me not assume.
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  Why did you bring Katie on, unpacked that a little bit?
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  Well, because here at Guild, our culture and a lot of the goals for the last couple of
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  years have been for high touch, high tech.
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  And as we change, high tech is a lot easier for true marketer and somebody who's a millennial
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  herself, maybe the beginning stages of it.
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  And I think it's very important as a loan officer to continue to change with your market
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  so that your clients get the best of both worlds.
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  And what are you hoping are the changes that Katie will help you implement?
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  Well, she's definitely given us a presence on the internet and all the different sources
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  that a lot of people today, it's changing, it's no longer they're finding you through
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  their real estate agent and the referring partner, they're doing their own research and
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  they're on the internet and they're on all the different sites that we're all familiar
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  with.
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  And so you have to have a presence there to capture that.
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  And did you feel that prior to bringing Katie on, you were lacking, maybe were you unsure
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  you were going to be able to do it successfully yourself?
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  Absolutely.
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  All right, Katie, you up for the task?
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  I am, yes, I always really, really good challenge.
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  You're not saying Debbie's a challenge, are you?
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  No.
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  Yes, I am.
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  Go ahead, Katie.
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  I am.
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  She's not a challenge, but I think what I see highlighted our market is changing and
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  just how we talk to our clients and our business partners is constantly changing.
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  So part of my challenge and my job is really to figure out the best way to meet our clients
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  and business partners where they're at.
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  What Katie, I want to ask you, when you were evaluating looking at areas of opportunity
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  for Debbie, let's call it that, right, for her online presence or branding, et cetera,
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  what kind of stood out for you initially as like glaringly obvious that was needed to
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  be worked on?
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  Let me think one of the things that we really focus on is just being consistent on our
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  branding across the board, so making sure that all of our messaging is consistent.
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  We focus heavily on LinkedIn and Facebook, so making sure our posts are consistent.
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  We really try to do posts at least five days a week, but not just a spray and
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  price.
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  We're going to post out there and hoping that somebody can respond, but also building
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  engagement.
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  Working on getting our clients and business partners to comment, to share, and
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  really trying to create a dialogue and build community through social media.
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  And so how have you done that in your time you've been there about a year or
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  so when you say drive engagement, community getting partners and
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  comments and all that stuff, how do you do that?
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  What types of content are you creating and posting?
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  So some of the things we've done is creating events, so we do a couple events,
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  big events each year, so we do one in the fall, which we recently did.
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  We run it out of pumpkin patch farm, so to speak, and we had about 300 clients
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  show up, which was really successful in our mind.
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  And so we really pushed that on social media.
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  One of the things we did partner with an agent in town.
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  So we had a lot of fun with it.
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  We got an inflatable dinosaur costume and ran around the corn patch and
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  made some goofy videos and created an event on Facebook for that.
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  And then just really played that up as much as we could.
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  So you ran it out of pumpkin patch.
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  I love that idea.
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  How did you do that?
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  Was that like during off hours or whatnot?
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  So we did on a Thursday, so it wasn't peak weekend hours for them.
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  And we did have to pay for the whole rental fee, so we had basically a private event.
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  But there's each family or each child left with a pumpkin.
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  There was a pumpkin patch, a petting zoo.
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  We had two face painters come.
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  They had all kinds of different rides and whatnot.
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  And then on the most inside, we created some,
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  you know, cards that each family left with.
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  And so it was like a postcard.
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  And then we created a scavenger hunt.
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  So the kids had to go around the farm and find different farm animals
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  and bring that back to us.
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  And they got a treat bag.
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  And then on the back of the card, it just said,
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  you know, thank you so much for your business.
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  We really appreciate you.
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  Love that.
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  We have 100 people.
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  That's huge.
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  We actually have 301.
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  Our max is 300 and they graciously left the one extra person.
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  So, C Jeff, for us, this is Debbie.
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  We've done that event.
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  This was our third straight year.
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  But typically for me, just high touch,
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  I would get out as much as I could.
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  But we've never had the success rate that we had this year
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  to thank our clients, our past clients for staying with us.
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  We've never had that kind of success without Katie's marketing.
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  So that's where the big difference came.
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  More people could, were reached and could take advantage of such a great event.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  Well, seriously, that's amazing.
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  I mean, imagine the ripple effect from that 300 people.
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  And that was a mix of past clients and some agents.
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  Is that correct?
• 14:44
  Yep.
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  I mean, there was primarily our past clients.
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  That's what we marketed too.
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  And that's an occurrence as a thank you.
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  And our marketing leading up to that.
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  So we did do some print.
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  We didn't do a mailer.
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  So we mailed out personal invitations to every family.
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  And then we followed up with an email campaign as well
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  and then added social media into it.
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  But you didn't call people.
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  You relied on the outbound stuff.
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  We did rely on the outbound stuff.
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  And then we did make some phone calls.
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  It's a lot on the last day, just as a reminder.
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  And I'm asking that.
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  Hopefully, you know, it's coming across the right way.
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  And that really speaks to a couple of things, right?
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  I mean, one, your marketing, the pieces must have been really good
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  and compelling, the social media itself.
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  And then just I think the connection or affinity
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  you've got with those clients
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  to get that level of people to participate.
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  That really says a lot about, I think you, Debbie.
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  No, thank you.
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  And that's truly where with my 20 years,
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  that's what I take the most pride in.
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  But like we said in this new marketing and guild idea
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  is high touch, high tech.
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  And great at the high touch.
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  That's always been what sustained me.
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  The high tech has been a challenge.
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  Awesome.
• 15:55
  So I want to all stay on this thread for a moment of events.
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  It's funny because a podcast I recorded just before this one,
• 16:01
  same theme, right?
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  Another top producer, big on events.
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  What are you guys looking at for other events
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  as we enter in more holidays, right?
• 16:08
  We got Thanksgiving and Christmas coming up,
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  anything around those.
• 16:12
  Yeah, so we do happy hours as well.
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  Those are targeted a lot to our business partners
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  and our agents.
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  So we really try to love on them.
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  We've gone back and forth with, you know,
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  in the past, we used to do one every single month.
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  But everybody knows agents are super busy.
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  And sometimes it felt like our
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  attendance started to dwindle
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  because they knew, oh, if I missed this month,
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  I can come to the next one.
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  So we have since shifted that model a little bit.
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  And now we typically do one a quarter.
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  And that has a much better turn on.
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  I think our last happy hour,
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  we had a little over 20 agents show up to that.
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  So we work with a local kind of bar
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  and restaurant in town, which is great to support local.
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  They love having us.
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  And then they donate a raffle.
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  So every time we go, they donate like a wine basket.
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  And we get, you know, we collect business cards when they come.
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  So that way, we know who is attending.
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  And then this is a way to thank them for coming.
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  We also have the business donates at wine basket.
• 17:21
  I know you're doing anything where it's like the people who come,
• 17:24
  they get a free drink ticket or they all on their own for that.
• 17:27
  It depends on the event.
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  So we definitely will host food.
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  And then, you know, drinks can be on them.
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  It just kind of depends.
• 17:37
  We, you know, none of us are really heavy drinkers.
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  So we do more heavy apps and a lot of food.
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  So we'll put a big spread out in the middle of the table
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  and make sure they leave with full bellies.
• 17:51
  That's awesome.
• 17:52
  So clearly, events are a key part of you staying top of mind
• 17:55
  with real estate agents, right?
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  And clients.
• 17:58
  Yeah.
• 17:58
  So in addition to events, we also do pop buys,
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  which is another thing that we target.
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  So I look at a calendar.
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  I usually try to do this six months in advance.
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  And I'll look at, you know, major holidays.
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  Or I like, we did a pop buy in August.
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  It was national.
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  More say and he doesn't look at more.
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  So I put together this really cute,
• 18:20
  small packet and delivered about 50 to different agents.
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  I mean, the cost for us is, you know, maybe $2 per little bundle.
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  And then I designed a little tag that I printed
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  in tied to each bundle.
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  And then I went around to all of the different offices
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  and then handed those out.
• 18:40
  So little pop buys like that as well are in addition
• 18:43
  to just kind of stay top of mind.
• 18:46
  Hmm.
• 18:46
  Okay.
• 18:47
  Um, events, pop buys, it's fundamentals.
• 18:52
  You know what I mean?
• 18:52
  It's one of those things that have been done for years.
• 18:55
  Some people don't well.
• 18:56
  Some people look at pop buys as I've said this just a moment ago.
• 19:00
  Uh, some people call pop buys cheesy.
• 19:03
  You know, we love cheese.
• 19:07
  Well, cheese winds up being green oftentimes, doesn't it?
• 19:11
  Yes, it does.
• 19:12
  The form of referrals.
• 19:15
  Yes.
• 19:16
  Why do you do?
• 19:16
  Yeah, here's the thing I want to answer for the listeners.
• 19:19
  Why do you do pop buys?
• 19:21
  What does it do for you?
• 19:23
  So I think first of all, it's all about your branding.
• 19:26
  And second of all, the pop I can serve as two separate things.
• 19:30
  It's like, wow, look, your lending team really still thinks of you,
• 19:33
  thinks of you a lot.
• 19:34
  You're on the forefront of their mind.
• 19:37
  Second of all, it's a little bit of breaking rice about what we've got today.
• 19:41
  Oh, I see, I mean, yeah, yeah, right, right.
• 19:45
  So it makes them feel special.
• 19:46
  Um, also, do you think it's helpful in today's world,
• 19:50
  an online noisy world to take some of the online offline?
• 19:55
  Absolutely.
• 19:56
  I would 100% agree.
• 19:58
  I mean, I think it's one of my challenges of finding that balance, right?
• 20:03
  I could do everything digital and just not get out of from behind my desk.
• 20:08
  Or I could be totally, you know, we could be out in front of agents all the time.
• 20:14
  But it's that balance of having a social media presence,
• 20:18
  email campaigns, whatnot, but, you know, also making sure Debbie and I are
• 20:22
  getting out in front of our agents and face to face.
• 20:25
  I mean, you just can never replace that face to face interaction.
• 20:28
  I think that people make a big mistake if they think that the high touch is not
• 20:33
  still part of our current climate and our future climate.
• 20:36
  It is still going to matter.
• 20:39
  Absolutely.
• 20:39
  I agree 100%.
• 20:41
  Okay, so that's great.
• 20:42
  Events, Popeyes, I love it.
• 20:44
  By the way, guys, for those that are looking, you know,
• 20:46
  Katie, you said you planned this, the events or Popeyes out.
• 20:50
  I think it was Popeyes specifically.
• 20:52
  You planned those out up to six months in advance, did you say?
• 20:55
  Yeah, so I look at the calendar and I just try to figure out.
• 20:58
  Okay, you know, what are we doing?
• 21:01
  You know, obviously we're not doing a Popeye every single month,
• 21:04
  but I try to kind of alternate.
• 21:07
  So maybe it's a Popeye one month, a happy hour, the next.
• 21:11
  You know, and so I kind of look six months out and we'll figure out like
• 21:14
  what the the Schmors one, for example, it's like, oh, it's August.
• 21:17
  We're not having a happy hour this month.
• 21:20
  Oh, it's National Schmors Day, the end of the campaign.
• 21:22
  So it's kind of the thought logic behind.
• 21:24
  Let's do a Popeye and get in there and, you know,
• 21:27
  W and I just loaded up our car and went around for the afternoon and delivered them.
• 21:31
  So yeah, I try to look six months out.
• 21:34
  Yeah, I think that's smart.
• 21:35
  You got a plan, right?
• 21:36
  Because it's like all of a sudden Tuesday and you're like,
• 21:38
  oh, Thursday's like, you know, the day,
• 21:40
  where am I going to too late then?
• 21:42
  Right.
• 21:43
  I want to share a resource with people that are listening.
• 21:46
  You probably have your own.
• 21:47
  I mean, there's a bunch of them.
• 21:47
  You can find online, Google, like National holidays.
• 21:51
  And these aren't the usual like Veterans Day holidays.
• 21:54
  You can find works.
• 21:55
  Yeah, like this one I'm looking at right now is National Day Calendar.
• 21:59
  Hey, heads up people.
• 22:01
  I don't know if you knew it, but yesterday,
• 22:02
  November 6 was National Nachos Day.
• 22:05
  So we missed that one.
• 22:07
  Yeah, that's literally the calendar that I use.
• 22:10
  And it's fun because you can find some really off-the-cuffs
• 22:14
  topics that are great conversation starters.
• 22:17
  You know, the National Red Hat Day,
• 22:18
  there's all kinds of things you can get really playful with.
• 22:21
  That's what's awesome is it's fun.
• 22:23
  It's different.
• 22:24
  You stand out.
• 22:25
  It's not the usual rates today or trending at five, you know?
• 22:29
  Right.
• 22:30
  Who wants to hear that?
• 22:31
  By the way, here's a gift to you guys.
• 22:33
  November 14th.
• 22:35
  Do we have time?
• 22:36
  Yeah, it's National Pickle Day.
• 22:37
  So perfect.
• 22:39
  You can get pickle chips,
• 22:41
  pickle cakes.
• 22:41
  You could have a...
• 22:42
  So there goes Katie already.
• 22:44
  You could say don't find yourself in a pickle.
• 22:46
  Choose our team.
• 22:47
  Yes!
• 22:48
  There you go.
• 22:49
  How quick was that?
• 22:51
  Love it.
• 22:51
  Love it.
• 22:52
  So people listening, check out those calendars.
• 22:54
  Lots of cool fun ideas.
• 22:55
  I mean, you can even just do videos around it.
• 22:56
  If you're not the pop-by person, you know,
• 22:58
  and do a video, have fun with it.
• 23:00
  All right.
• 23:01
  So speaking of videos, let's transition to a little bit of online stuff.
• 23:05
  I'm poking around here.
• 23:05
  I'm trying to find out more of what you guys are doing digitally.
• 23:09
  So I'm on your Facebook page.
• 23:11
  Tell me about videos that you're doing.
• 23:14
  What's the strategy around that?
• 23:16
  What I'll preface it before Katie takes over.
• 23:19
  She tries really, really hard on these videos.
• 23:21
  I am not the most willing participant, but I am learning.
• 23:25
  Yeah, so we, that's definitely a goal that we keep making for ourselves is to be more
• 23:33
  on the forefront doing video.
• 23:35
  Just because that is, you know, just so quick, easy way to get in front of your clients.
• 23:42
  You know, that's not just the boring content that you're reading.
• 23:44
  So we do a lot of video around events.
• 23:48
  If we have events leading up to it.
• 23:50
  And then we will do video emailing.
• 23:52
  Like we have subscribed through bomb bomb.
• 23:55
  So we will email, you know, our database for veterans, say,
• 23:59
  for all of our veterans or for Christmas and different things like that.
• 24:03
  So we do a lot of videos through email marketing as well.
• 24:07
  It's not always on our Facebook page.
• 24:10
  And you've got the video that are they broken out into different groups,
• 24:13
  realtors, clients?
• 24:15
  And we haven't done that as much.
• 24:18
  We do have a Facebook group that we have,
• 24:24
  we've had an issue, I shouldn't say we've had an issue.
• 24:26
  We want to do something like a Facebook group,
• 24:29
  but our compliance is looking into it.
• 24:30
  So we haven't launched that yet.
• 24:31
  But I know that some people do, you know,
• 24:35
  segment out their markets by groups doing it that way.
• 24:39
  So right now, our strategy is just our Facebook page is to everybody.
• 24:44
  So I try not to talk just rates or just, you know,
• 24:48
  inspiring things that we try to have that make.
• 24:50
  So we know we're talking both to our business partners and our clients.
• 24:54
  I think too, Jeff, you're probably talking about some canned videos, right?
• 24:58
  So probably for 2019, that might be our growth where you've got your standard.
• 25:04
  Congratulations.
• 25:05
  Just gone out your home got accepted that you could send out generically once you produce one.
• 25:11
  You know, trying to send out a video.
• 25:12
  This is goals for 2019 trying to set up.
• 25:15
  When you know that somebody's making an offer today,
• 25:18
  trying to set them apart by sending the listing agent a video about
• 25:21
  you're the one with the free call and how strong they are and how much they love the house.
• 25:26
  Trying to look more at those really specifically dedicated things
• 25:31
  that would help your client achieve the dream of home ship and get their offer accepted.
• 25:36
  And your agent.
• 25:38
  Yeah, so it sounds like what you're trying to do there is integrate video
• 25:41
  into some of the milestones and touch points during that transaction.
• 25:44
  Yeah, yeah, makes a lot of sense to do that.
• 25:46
  And of course, it takes a little bit of work up front to kind of build that all out,
• 25:49
  but once it's done, it's done and it works.
• 25:52
  Yes, and that's where Katie's so great is that it's consistent because
• 25:56
  I feel like in this market, if you do something once or twice,
• 26:00
  it doesn't do you much good if you're not consistent.
• 26:03
  So when you click on the on the things that are going to grow your business that are important to you,
• 26:07
  you have to be consistent.
• 26:09
  And that's where Katie's helped us to have a plan and be more consistent.
• 26:14
  That's why I believe the business itself is more consistent.
• 26:17
  So, so Debbie, then it sounds like Katie had to encourage you,
• 26:21
  could Joel, you kick you to get started with video?
• 26:26
  Yes, that is true.
• 26:27
  So how do you feel now? Are you feeling more comfortable?
• 26:30
  I am. I am. I prefer a goofier video over anything polished or professional.
• 26:35
  So many times, Katie won't even show me when we get done with a little clip video.
• 26:40
  It's just you just post and I trust her because it's always been
• 26:44
  exactly what we wanted and it net our goals.
• 26:47
  But if I have to rewatch it, I don't think they would get posted.
• 26:51
  And I will say to every video that we've done, I wish she, she definitely, once we do videos,
• 26:58
  they get easier. I think you get more comfortable with what you're doing and she does a great job with that.
• 27:03
  It's just, yeah, being consistent, I think is really what's key.
• 27:08
  And truly being yourself. If I try to be somebody super polished or try to not be myself,
• 27:14
  that's when the videos are not fun.
• 27:16
  Key point right there. Be yourself. Don't, yeah, don't try and look Hollywood.
• 27:23
  That's not that's not someone else's.
• 27:25
  Yeah, yeah, exactly. Katie, I'd like to maybe get your input briefly on too many people get caught
• 27:32
  up in the metrics of video. And I'm not saying it's not relevant or important, like views and all
• 27:37
  that kind of stuff. It is. But this, I guess, is around the point of consistency because what would
• 27:41
  you say to those people who we know they're out there that we know they're listening right now,
• 27:46
  and that's you I'm talking about. We're all, yeah, I did three videos and it didn't work for me.
• 27:51
  Or I didn't get, you know, I only got 12 views. How do you coach that person on why to hang in there?
• 28:00
  I think, you know, just going back to the consistency part is you're building an audience.
• 28:07
  You know, you throw three videos out there and you just stop all of a sudden. I mean,
• 28:11
  you just never know who's watching. You never know. Even if you have one person watching,
• 28:16
  that could translate to, you know, a referral or refinance or a purchase down the road.
• 28:22
  But if you give up too soon, you don't know what audience you're building. You don't know who's
• 28:26
  following you. So, you know, our approach isn't to do it for the metrics, although we do look at
• 28:32
  that and that is important. But really, our long-term strategy is we're trying to build an audience,
• 28:38
  we're trying to build our community. So whether we have one person watch it or, you know, 1200 to us,
• 28:46
  it's just important to be consistent and to let people know. I mean, if they're going to follow
• 28:52
  our page and then we just drop off, you know, why are they going to continue following us?
• 28:56
  So kind of trickling that through. I think a lot of people have the ambition to do, you know,
• 29:02
  video and like with any goal going to the gym or whatever. I mean, you start out that, you know,
• 29:07
  January 1, Gung Ho and then come February, it kind of tapers. And so if you can find a realistic
• 29:14
  schedule that works for you, I mean, maybe that's just one video a month. But practice finding that
• 29:20
  medium, be consistent and then build upon that rather than trying to, you know, do a video every day
• 29:26
  and burning out. Right on, right on. Okay, cool. I'm going to transition to back to UW for a second,
• 29:32
  looking at my notes from our initial conversation. You mentioned something if I'm correct that you're
• 29:37
  doing differently, maybe, or changing up how your realtor strategy and that is you're going,
• 29:44
  is it going deep versus wide? Did I get that right?
• 29:47
  Yeah, and it's not a change for me. So in my 20 years, it's pretty much been, that's where I'm
• 29:53
  super comfortable is really strong relationships where your goals are their goals and everybody wins.
• 30:01
  And I'm not great at going wide, which Katie has helped us add a lot of different people or business
• 30:09
  partners through these other avenues that have not always been. So we are going a little wider
• 30:15
  than what I'm used to. And I just want to make sure the service doesn't change. That's always
• 30:21
  been the reason that kept me from doing that. I see. So that actually is, I correct myself.
• 30:26
  It is you're going wide versus deep because you've been used to and very good at going deep,
• 30:31
  but Katie's brought some capabilities for you to scale your reach. That what I'm hearing.
• 30:36
  That is correct. That is correct. And then what you do is you identify those folks that might be
• 30:41
  right for then moving forward or moving further down the funnel, whatever and going deeper with
• 30:46
  those few, right? Yeah. And I think, I think as long as I definitely am just speaking for myself,
• 30:52
  I feel like when you are aligned with the same goals in business period, it is so much funner
• 30:59
  and such a better transaction for everybody involved. So that does mean at times I have tired agents.
• 31:06
  If we don't work together on either side, it's not a win for everybody.
• 31:12
  So that's really important to me. Do you ever put up with that crazy realtor just to keep getting
• 31:17
  the business? I think that comes with age, right? So in my early years, I'd put up with everything.
• 31:25
  I do feel like in the last 10 years, no, I won't because at the end of the day, if that's a huge
• 31:32
  challenge for me, then their client is filling the same and it's not where I want to be and it's
• 31:39
  not really a transaction that ends up the way we want it to. So it doesn't mean I don't try super
• 31:46
  hard. It doesn't mean that I'm willing to throw out a business partner or a lead. It means that
• 31:52
  it just has to be a great fit for everybody. And at sometimes I've had to change. Sometimes
• 31:57
  I've had to change to realize, oh, look, they have a value here and their point is something
• 32:03
  that we can. Now I get it. I get one of this way and I get why it's a good business relationship.
• 32:07
  So sometimes we change too. But no, I no longer will do a deal with a nightmare just to do a deal.
• 32:14
  Just don't do it. Don't have to. Well, and you also have to think about the cost to you and your
• 32:19
  business of that. Like you mentioned, the clients are impacted by that. But then also,
• 32:25
  you know, I mean, there's the impact of you emotionally and what a time suck that becomes
• 32:29
  and how that takes you off track. So it's easy. I know, like you said early on, it's harder to say
• 32:34
  that because you need business or you'll do anything. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So let's transition a
• 32:39
  little bit. I'm looking at my notes and I want to kind of do a couple rapid fire topics and see
• 32:43
  where this leads us. I wrote down Thursday hot shoppers. What's that? So every time we get a lead
• 32:51
  pre-qualified that actually could go out today. So no credit fixes. They are ready to go. They
• 32:56
  have their down payment. They're hot shopping. Every Thursday, my team follows up with that hot
• 33:01
  shopper. We call to see how it's going, how they're agent doing. Are they seeing some properties
• 33:07
  so that we can revalidate their agent at that point. But bigger, bigger thing is sometimes we find
• 33:13
  out that they're not happy with the agent that they are happy with us keeping in touch. So it
• 33:17
  becomes super important on both sides. Interesting. So when you find out they're not happy with the
• 33:22
  agent, how do you handle that? I really do dig into that. I want to know why I try to validate,
• 33:29
  not if it's not true, but if it's true, I try to validate that that's not really what I'm used to
• 33:34
  from that agent and have they talk to the agent. I try to get them to go back to the agent
• 33:40
  because the agent can't do better for them if they don't know how they're missing the mark on what
• 33:45
  they're getting, you know, what the buyer wants to see. And many times we end up turning that
• 33:50
  around. People are not comfortable with confrontation. So in that conversation, they realize, yeah,
• 33:55
  it is not fair to this agent that I haven't told them that he's showing me properties and he's
• 34:00
  missed the mark on what I want to see. So many times we keep those relationships together by having
• 34:06
  those conversations. Yeah, I love the fact that you said with your Thursday hot shoppers,
• 34:12
  there's multiple initiatives behind that. One is obviously to touch base and stay connected and
• 34:17
  you're building a fence around that client ideally because we know they could be double-apping
• 34:22
  whatever. How do you handle then? I'm curious what percentage you know, Remark is different,
• 34:26
  but I know I often talk to loan officers and they've got the TBDs and I don't know what your market
• 34:33
  like, meaning there's a lot of TBDs there to just maybe in pause mode and you just still apply
• 34:40
  the same Thursday strategy. Yeah, until we know they're no longer in the market for whatever reason
• 34:45
  we do, that's just part of one of my upfront teamH jobs every Thursday. Well, I love that because
• 34:51
  now that I think about this, you know, there's a number of L.O.'s I've spoken to where your
• 34:56
  frequency is probably the most regular or consistent one I've heard because I think too many L.O.'s
• 35:01
  let it go too long, like a TBD, right? They'll let that thing kind of fizzle out. Yeah, and when
• 35:06
  you're having those regular conversations, you know if that's still an active shopper, they'll
• 35:10
  tell you. And then I think that really does go back to my preference of going deep because I'm
• 35:15
  taking care of those people and we're really, really coddling those relationships we started rather
• 35:21
  than to keep looking for more and more and more and more so you don't get the high touch.
• 35:26
  And when you recognize that somebody is taking a pause or they're not active in market or whatever,
• 35:31
  you know, they communicate that to you or through questioning, do you then move them to some type
• 35:36
  of a, you know, email drop campaign or something or other different type of schedule?
• 35:41
  That's exactly what we do. So it might become a, they just said that they've had a relationship
• 35:46
  change or a financial change and it's going to be six months before they have that money saved
• 35:51
  back up. Then we might touch them every other month saying, hey, how's it going?
• 35:56
  Do you have any questions? Whatever their reason was, we talked specific about the reason,
• 36:00
  let's say, how's the savings going? Do you want to touch base and pick on track?
• 36:05
  But that might become every other month. If somebody truly says they're out for a year for whatever
• 36:09
  reason, then that might only be once a quarter. If somebody is working on credit, we're probably
• 36:15
  checking in once a quarter to see what that gauge looks like. I mean, we just got somebody back
• 36:19
  to an agent that they worked on their credit for three years. Doesn't happen a ton, but when it
• 36:25
  does, it's so rewarding. And we were able to get them back to the exact same agent because
• 36:29
  every conversation, we talked about their business partner and their goals. And when we called
• 36:34
  the agent to say, hey, Mr. Smith is ready to go. They were just thrilled.
• 36:39
  And with those, the TBDs, the Thursday hot shoppers where you're trying to, you know,
• 36:45
  keep people active in market, what's their status, et cetera. Are you also then updating agents
• 36:50
  on those conversations if there's something meaningful, I guess? Yeah, if it doesn't reach any
• 36:55
  confidence, it's definitely something we're talking about. Okay. And it's interesting. I'm
• 37:01
  thinking about this through the lens of, well, I think one of the value props for a loan officer,
• 37:06
  we already talked about one, which is I edify that real estate agent and help build them up. Do you
• 37:13
  intentionally articulate that as part of your value proposition for real estate agents is,
• 37:18
  you know, not only is it my goal to obviously prequel, pre-approved all that stuff, but also to
• 37:23
  ensure that I drive as many leads or clients, you know, back to you. Does that make sense?
• 37:29
  It's definitely probably one of my number one talking points about how the partnership works.
• 37:35
  Because the 1-800 lender is not going to care about the agent and our market and for that relationship
• 37:41
  else. And do you find agents respond to that positively? Yes, I do.
• 37:47
  It's so, so funny is, well, we both, I'm just like thinking it's crazy. We've been around in
• 37:54
  this industry a long time, it's me since 2003. And that's one of those classic fundamentals of,
• 38:00
  like you constantly hear about realtors don't value loan officers or they're not loyal. And in my
• 38:05
  response to that is exactly what you and I just talked about. Well, probably because you're not
• 38:09
  doing a good job demonstrating your visible value because it sounds like you are on the same page,
• 38:13
  Debbie, where it's yes, your job is to do an awesome job as a loan officer or all that kind of
• 38:17
  stuff. But you are, this is where I think you're point about going deep, you're an extension of
• 38:22
  that team, right? Absolutely. Yep. Yeah. And I know that was that was pitched a lot more back in the
• 38:28
  day, air quotes, if you will, where it was, you know, where I got my training from, where it's like,
• 38:34
  you would call and introduce yourself, you know, hi, this is Debby Seekord. I'm part of the, you
• 38:38
  know, ABC team at remax. And, you know, first of all, just congratulations on your choice to use
• 38:44
  the ABC team at remax. They're one of the best, you know, that kind of stuff, right? Right. Yeah,
• 38:49
  I don't think that happens a lot. I think what happens is, no, and I think that I do think that
• 38:54
  something that's missed. And I think that mass media and you can go wide and just hope that
• 39:00
  some stuff sticks, right? So for me, that's where the relationship's so important. And our industry
• 39:07
  is not easy. It's not easy for the agents. It's not easy for GoLender. So when you have somebody and
• 39:13
  you can have like this great happy ending experience that the homeowner gets the house of their dreams
• 39:19
  and everybody gets paid, it's just such a win-win. All right. Good stuff. Let me transition for a moment
• 39:28
  back to Tukati if she's the best one to answer for this. What, if anything, are you guys doing
• 39:33
  around paid traffic, paid advertising, Facebook ads, for example? You know, we don't do a whole lot
• 39:42
  of paid advertising. We've experimented with it a little bit through boosting posts or
• 39:49
  videos. If you have a new product that just rolled out, it's unique to, you know, to GoLender,
• 39:54
  our market, we'll boost that. But I honestly can't say that we should have seen a significant
• 40:01
  return from, you know, our paid traffic or paid advertising versus all of our organic stuff.
• 40:08
  So that's just not something that we focus on heavily on our team. Do you also have to jump
• 40:14
  through some compliance hoops if you're going to be running any ads? Yeah. I mean, anything that we do,
• 40:20
  you know, is always going through compliance and that's something that's so important to us.
• 40:24
  So, you know, occasionally we'll have things, you know, I'll come up with an idea and this
• 40:28
  would be great. And, you know, we'll send it to compliance and for whatever reason it may not,
• 40:32
  you know, be approved. And of course, we value that over anything else. So it really just depends.
• 40:38
  But fortunately, our compliance team works really hard to make sure that, you know, they're not
• 40:44
  just blocking everything. So rarely do they ever put the full brakes on. So they work really
• 40:50
  hard to get that together with us. So is your company producing any content for you that you then
• 40:56
  repurpose on social? They do. Yeah. So they have, you know, a lot of, you know, some of the generic stuff
• 41:05
  that, you know, tips for home buyers and, you know, different mortgage terms and specific to
• 41:13
  product announcements and things like that. So we definitely will use some of their creative
• 41:19
  products or create a content and we'll kind of drip that into our social strategy.
• 41:26
  But then we also really try to create a lot of our own stuff. So I would say maybe one day a week
• 41:32
  we'll use content that corporate produces for us and then everything else we try to produce, you
• 41:38
  know, for our team. Do you guys do anything around agents, content or listings or things like that
• 41:45
  that they may be, you know, posting to share that or? Yeah. So we will share if an agent has a new
• 41:52
  listing or something like that. I think that goes back to what Debby was talking about. We try to
• 41:56
  validate the agent. So if they have something that they post, we'll definitely share that. But we'll
• 42:02
  do, you know, we'll do co-branded flyers and share that as well. So anywhere that we can partner
• 42:09
  with our business agents, we love to get behind that. And that's where Guilds Platform is fabulous.
• 42:16
  There's all these flyers and products that you can use for helping your business partners.
• 42:23
  Get out there. What are some of the things you help them do in terms of marketing?
• 42:27
  So we do a lot of, you know, like you said, with the flyers, we'll do open houses with them.
• 42:33
  Just to clarify. So open house flyers, right? So we do open house flyers coming soon flyers.
• 42:40
  I know some loan officers have used products called list reports. That is a platform that's
• 42:47
  available. And then occasionally if they ask us to do an event, we'll consider that. Again,
• 42:52
  it's really, you know, we have some pretty creative agents. So some of them come up with some pretty
• 42:56
  cool stuff that they purchase with. Are you doing any open houses with them? Things like that?
• 43:01
  Yes, we do do open houses. And always the same thing. My main job in that open house is to
• 43:08
  edify, you know, if they have an agent, it's great. And if they don't, that there's one here that
• 43:13
  can help them with every need that they could have in a match and edify the person. And then,
• 43:18
  you know, we also have a fun thing like we have an open house survival kit from the dollar store.
• 43:24
  And it just has like that the agent gets and it just has their card, our card. And it has maybe
• 43:31
  a light bulb in it, a candle. If you go into a house, it's a little less desirable.
• 43:38
  Then we've all been in. Maybe some for breeze. Some lights.
• 43:43
  Some for a roll of toilet paper. You know, it's just another fun thing and it still adds value
• 43:47
  to that. And they they can actually carry those around in the future and refill them.
• 43:52
  Right. Right. That's awesome. I love it. Open house survival kits. Yeah. Again, making it fun,
• 43:56
  making it different. Okay. Last thing I'm looking at here for my notes is you mentioned earlier,
• 44:01
  you're coaching agents and I wrote down a book study. You're doing a book study with agents.
• 44:06
  Is that correct? Yeah, I do have some agents that we do a book study. We've done them
• 44:11
  after my in groups where we get together and they can be from all different offices. That's
• 44:16
  beautiful part about the happy hours and some of these other things is that the agents come from
• 44:21
  different offices and it's not a conflict. They learn. You learn more together. But the bigger focus
• 44:27
  we did in 2018 was my team picks a book and they read it throughout the month and if that's how
• 44:34
  we start our Monday morning meetings. What was highlighted, what they like, it gives me a chance
• 44:39
  to figure out where they're where they're really value bar and and to see everybody's strength
• 44:46
  and what's important to them. And we just like the last book we just finished with the secret.
• 44:51
  And it, you know, we do a vision board every year and we're teaming up with a real estate group
• 44:56
  issue and their agents are coming and we're we're getting together and we're doing vision boards
• 45:00
  together. It's lots of fun things. No, yeah, I love that. This is kind of a new idea for some people
• 45:07
  because I brought it up once before I think and it was like, you know, lights go on. Oh, great idea
• 45:12
  because a lot of people think agents are hyper competitive and they're not going to get in a room
• 45:17
  and share ideas, you know, about what's working. But to your point about your masterminds,
• 45:22
  you found that not to be the case. No, and actually I may have had the beliefs the other way prior
• 45:27
  to joining Guild were a highly coached company and these happy hours are what truly introduce me
• 45:34
  for the first time that these people do love interacting with each other. Sometimes deals are made
• 45:39
  at these happy hours. Sometimes ideas are given of how a deal can be made and it's different than
• 45:45
  what I've perceived before coming to Guild for sure. So real quick then a mastermind, the kind of
• 45:50
  the format for that is roughly what just gets that out if you could. That would be just talking about
• 45:57
  our market today, the hot topics within the market and it usually does revolve around the core
• 46:03
  coaching or whatever coaching, whatever coaching forms you use. So we just look at how do you
• 46:09
  track your leads? How did tracking your leads go? What does your greatness tracker look like or whatever
• 46:14
  forms? Like it's the accountability of the work that you've got then to achieve your goals
• 46:19
  because none of us have bosses. None of us have to show up. None of us punch a clock. These younger
• 46:25
  agents have not even had a chance to work in an environment that they have to show up at 8 and leave
• 46:29
  at 5 so they're kind of just out there with no real guidance. So these forms, the accountability,
• 46:35
  your greatness tracker, how many calls did you make? How many thank you cards did you send?
• 46:40
  What do you do for the end of the year? Reminders? What do you do for the quarterly reminders of
• 46:44
  your close clients? It's just really for me, it's mostly based around coaching, the core coaching
• 46:51
  that we use. Yeah, as a matter of fact, come to think of it, one of your colleagues,
• 46:55
  Olig to Koch, you know him? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Who doesn't know Olig, right? Exactly.
• 47:03
  Had him on the podcast and he said the exact same thing in terms of how he sees the role for
• 47:09
  loan officers, you know, he's changing, if you will, although you and I were like, hey, no,
• 47:14
  this has been the role since the beginning. But for those that aren't doing that, you need to
• 47:18
  become a coach for the agents. I think there's this perception that for those of us in the industry,
• 47:23
  we get exposed to all this stuff, the different real estate coaches out there and all that kind of
• 47:27
  jazz. And our assumption is, oh my god, the realtor is they've got plenty of info on how to do
• 47:31
  X, Y or Z. And reality is, yes, but no, because you know, most of them aren't like doing it yet. And
• 47:40
  they really need, here's what I've learned, they need a guide, they need your user term a coach,
• 47:45
  but to have somebody locally there face to face in person, that's a whole different thing than
• 47:49
  watching a video or whatever. Exactly. And it's an in-person accountability.
• 47:54
  Now, I love it. And by the way, to your point about, you know, the coaching content, right,
• 47:58
  you guys are part of the core and all that stuff, great organization. And so the whole point there
• 48:04
  is, look, just borrow the content that exists out there and put it together in a format that's
• 48:09
  right is easy for you to share and people to write, share and have a conversation. Your goal is
• 48:14
  really to facilitate her in those masterminds, isn't it? Absolutely. Yeah, you're not like a teacher,
• 48:19
  you're not like, you know, big raw raw session, you're like, okay, so let's talk about this concept of
• 48:23
  like time blocking, you know, and you just roll it out there. And people just love the fact that
• 48:29
  somebody's pouring into them, I think I could go on about that all day. I love it. And we've
• 48:36
  actually had, you know, we've seen a lot of success through that, but again, that's just about
• 48:40
  my personal preference about willing to be. You could do big, huge lunch and learns with
• 48:45
  you invite everybody in the brother, which, which I've tried that and we've done it and some of them
• 48:50
  are a lot of fun. But I much prefer the more deeper relationships where we know what we can do
• 48:57
  for each other and how to best help each other and accountability. Yeah, I think the big takeaway
• 49:02
  from all this is specifically real estate agents is, you know, not to sound cliche, but it is a
• 49:08
  real estate relationship. And we need to be as loan officers, I just taken my personal experience
• 49:15
  and a lot of folks I talk, you just need to get better at developing relationships and realizing
• 49:20
  that from the get go, that it's not a vendor situation, your job is to not close alone. Even though
• 49:26
  it's like, you know, we've heard that before as a matter of fact, you know, give us back the
• 49:31
  oleg for a second. He's like, you know, three years ago, you know, maybe you could get by with,
• 49:36
  oh, I close loans on time, but so what today, everybody can do that. That's not your competitive
• 49:43
  advantage. So how do you, what is your competitive advantage? And I think it's, you know, again,
• 49:46
  to sound, I hate to beat these words to death, but it's the value you bring to the relationship.
• 49:51
  It's how are you pouring into that person? How are you helping to help them get, achieve their goals?
• 49:56
  You know, we've heard it for so long, but dog gone and it's true.
• 50:01
  Yeah, and I think I think in the 20 years that that concept comes and goes, right? Because it's
• 50:06
  the next shiny penny, the next great idea. But I think at the end of the day for me, it's always been
• 50:13
  the consistent relationship. Not about when I get paid, but how we all issue that in goal.
• 50:20
  Right, right. And then last, before we wrap up, Hey, Katie, what do you got on your radar for
• 50:27
  2019 digital marketing wise or branding wise for a, for Debbie and team?
• 50:33
  I think really just kind of sound to more videos. That's really a goal that we've been
• 50:39
  discussing and pushing. And so really just being more consistent, getting in front of the camera.
• 50:46
  I think, you know, being more spontaneous and in really pushing videos is going to be our
• 50:52
  main goal for next year. More spontaneous videos. Does that mean like on the streets, right?
• 51:00
  Yeah, I mean out and about or maybe even doing more Facebook live events too. That's a huge thing.
• 51:10
  I know sometimes when you're live, the nerves come out a little bit different than if it's recorded
• 51:16
  and you can do 10 takes. So I think just being doing Facebook live events and, you know, more
• 51:24
  more videos is really where we're going to be focusing. Love it. Love it. Look at the key there,
• 51:29
  even with Facebook live or anything is likely. It just, just be you. It doesn't have to be perfect.
• 51:33
  Totally. It go live and go, you know. Yeah, we pulled out some props.
• 51:40
  And then we really try to have that balance of fun and cheese because that's what you're going to
• 51:45
  get when you work with our team. You're going to have a great time and you're going to be taken care of.
• 51:48
  But we definitely like to have fun and get things done. So that's how we try to come across
• 51:54
  in all of our communications. And that's a great reminder that people would rather be entertained
• 51:59
  than educated. But if you can combine the two, you got a winner. Yeah, yeah. Winning together.
• 52:05
  Exactly. Awesome. Well, let's guys appreciate you making time and you're incredibly busy.
• 52:09
  What's the best way? I'm going to put links in the show notes, of course, to
• 52:12
  W. Your Facebook page. The website as well. Give me that one more time. So those listening,
• 52:18
  they know where to go. So our website is guildmortgage.com for slash debris cord.
• 52:25
  Awesome. Well, thanks again for sharing. I really appreciate you both being here. I thought it was
• 52:29
  an awesome combination of powerful women dropping some truth bombs. Well, thank you for having us.
• 52:36
  And thank you, Jeff, for always trying to better our industry. It's fabulous. Thank you.
• 52:39
  Oh, you bet. No, thank you. It's a passion project. And that speaks to our listeners.
• 52:44
  Thank you. Of course, ultimately for tuning in and listening. And if you like the episode,
• 52:48
  hey, let us know. Give us a little shout out wherever you're listening to this little ranking
• 52:52
  star. You know how to do it. So it's my pleasure to host this. And as always,
• 52:59
  be good. Be safe. We'll see you out on the next one. And bye for now.
• 53:06
  Radio one more truth in mortgage marketing. Get more free training and resources at mortgage
• 53:12
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