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Sales Expert Paul Leon on Creating Your Value Proposition as a Writer · The Daily Writer

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Hey friends, welcome back to the Profitable Writer Podcast.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: If you're new here, my name is Kent Sanders.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm an author and ghostwriter.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: And this is the show that helps you grow your impact and income as a writer.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, speaking of being a writer, here's the reality that we all live in.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: We have one foot in the world of business and the other foot in the world of creativity.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: And the tendency for creative types and writers like us is that we tend to focus on making the product and we tend to not focus as much on the marketing and the selling of that product.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: Well I'm really excited because my guest today is here to help us develop our business chops as writers.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: Paul Leon is a training leader and sales manager with nearly 20 years of experience providing sales management in a number of industries.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: He has extensive experience in all aspects of developing and delivering sales training materials, including developing curriculum in alignment with product training, facilitating new hire training, providing in-person and online classes, meeting and exceeding sales training goals, and leading cross-functioning teams.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: Paul is also the host of the Persistence Mastery Podcast, which is an awesome show about helping professionals grow in their communication skills.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: There's a link in the show notes, and I highly recommend that you check it out.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: In today's conversation, Paul and I talk about creating your value proposition as a writer.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: So in other words, what is the value that you bring to your clients, customers, readers, viewers, and listeners?
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: How does what you do actually improve their lives?
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's a really important question that we all have to answer for ourselves and for our business.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: And we dive into that deeply today.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: We also dive into the difference between the concepts of cost and investment and why that difference is so crucial for your business.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: So if you do client work as a writer, you'll really love this episode and the actionable steps that you can put to work in your business immediately.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: This is really, really good stuff.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I highly recommend that you grab a pen and paper and take some notes.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: Here's my conversation with the amazing Paul Dion.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: Paul, thanks for being on the Profitable Writer.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited to chat with you about this important topic of sales for writers.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: So before we get into that though, thanks for being here.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate your time.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thank you for having me.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm uh I'm looking forward to in this podcast interview.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I know it both demands on our time.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's this is a pleasure.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: So thanks for having me.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm curious if you can, and uh when I put this episode together later, readers will have they will know a little bit about about you because I'll have a bio that I read and so forth.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: But take us a little bit into your story, if you could, about how you got involved in sales and what your experience is in that world.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: Well, how I got involved in sales realistically, it it actually started when I was living in Fort Lauderdale, Florida.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, my I grew up in a single parent household, fell on hard times.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, initially was a college dropout, and I had to make money.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of one of those things where it was one of the philosophies I teach today is you want to sell from inspiration, not desperation.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, unfortunately, my start was from desperation, um, which is not a fun way to get into sales.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: I started doing cold contacting, door-to-door selling, and corporate gym memberships.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: That was one of my first sales jobs near the Sagrass Mall in near Miami, Florida.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: And fell in hard times, but in my first month hit my commissions and did about a little over$6,000 in commissions the next month.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: Not knowing anything, I was what you would call um stupid on fire, smart on ice.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it was really tough.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: And but that launched me into another sales journey of work working later with Verizon.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: It was a Fortune 100 company.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't know if I should name companies that I've worked with, but they are all on my LinkedIn, so there's no transition.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: Verizon was a great company, and I started learning quickly though, that if I really wanted to get into being able to teach the mistakes I made to help other salespeople avoid the headaches.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I had weeks where I did 400 cold calls and maybe got one appointment.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I had weeks where I made 80 calls and got 10 appointments.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I learned different moments along the way that in order for me to be able to teach my mistakes and break into corporate training, because that's where I started to find my passion was in speaking and training, is I needed to get a degree.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I put myself through college later in life around 28 years old.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then at 32, I graduated with an organizational behavior degree from Rollins College in Winter Park, Florida.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: But I was in sales that whole time through a couple different sales careers from corporate gym memberships, uh B2B, B2C selling, of selling wireless plans to small businesses and whatnot.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a couple things I've learned about the art and skill of sales, is that number one, we oversump we we complicated too much.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: Number one.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: Number two, we have a a jaded and obscure view of what sales is.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: And part of the reason for that, I think, Ken, and you and I spoke about this, yes, is we've had negative experiences, or we were taken advantage of from someone else who claimed they were in sales.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: You have any questions so far about a little bit about my journey, just to kind of navigate the conversation a little more, if that's fair.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: No, this is fantastic.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: This is this is great.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: So, and you know the thing about sales is this.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: Sales, like we when we first connected on this subject matter, and I think it was about a month ago, I want to say, a lot's happened.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: I was speaking in Nashville.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: I was supposed to schedule speak in Nashville before we connected, then spoke in Nashville, so it feels like it's been a long time.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the things I started with when I was speaking in Nashville, it was about 40 sales professionals in the room.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: Was sales is simply about lining up your solution or service to what you are selling.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing more, nothing less.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's not about having a checkered shirt with bad intentions.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's that simple.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: And the best sales process out there is a consultative sales one, not a transactional and not a conversation sales process.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean a consultative sales process.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I say that to say this is that the whole time in Nashville, where I was speaking those 40 sales reps, that's what we focused on.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: We focused on key elements around scripting, value proposition, the consultation, how to prioritize it and not cheat the consultation.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: Most people, when they start implementing a sales process, I have found, Kent, is they try to cheat the consultation, and that's just not pragmatic in my experience.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a little bit about my background.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: What questions do you have so far?
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: What's can you go?
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this would be great.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what do you mean by cheating the consultation?
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: Can you explain what that means uh a little bit more if you could?
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: So one of the things when we I look at someone's business or I look at somebody who says, I want to go into business, and um I need to learn how to sell.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just go with that philosophy.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'll ask them, well, what do you and I'll and I'll do a deep dive.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what are you doing?
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: What are you selling?
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes what happens is it's a product that's pretty low tech, an example.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: It could be a foo product that's not really a consultative sales process needed for like a five or ten dollar commodity, right?
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: However, let's say you're selling a service or something customizable to them, kind of like what you're doing now.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: The cheating the consultation is giving a price before you do that.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's the number one way we cheat the consultation around our solution or service is okay.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: We give the customer a price with no context or no advantages to them or no solutions that are customizable to them.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then the customer puts a sticker tag on us, yes, and that's all we are to them.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's the number one way we cheat the consultation is we get into price before we do it, and we give it willingly because we're not valuing that consultation.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a lot that goes into the consultation, but that's the first way.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: Probably about unfortunately over 50% of sales professionals do in cheating the consultation.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: Why why do people in sales do that?
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what's the motivation for throwing a price out there without any sort of context or anything else around it?
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I will tell you, in my 20 years of being in this field, my I think number one is you're trying to find a laydown.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: A laydown is somebody who would buy no matter what.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's the first thing.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: They think that.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I equate that laydown terminology to what I call lottery ticket mentality.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: And essentially saying, if I tell a thousand people my price, somebody will just buy for no reason and no context.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's along the same lines of saying, Kent, if I buy a thousand lottery tickets, I'm gonna win.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you are gonna win, but you're probably gonna win five dollars is what you're gonna win.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, you're not gonna win much.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: And that's probably the biggest thing is, and it's that's the number one thing.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's lottery ticket mentality.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: Number two, it's just a laziness.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of salespeople and a lot of businesses are trying to hit the easy button.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: But realistically, the way you actually hit the easy button is defining your value proposition and letting the meeting be circled around that when you book the appointment, whether you're doing that meeting virtually or you're doing that meeting in person.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: That is the biggest pinch point for a lot of sales professionals.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: They don't book their meetings by qualifying the candidate around a value proposition.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then your consultation is about open-ended questions, features, and advantages, giving the customer advantage when they don't just buy you, they invest in a service to get a return for themselves.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the other thing that we don't we miss out when we conduct a consultation.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: But going back, because I'm giving you a lot, the value proposition is the number one thing salespeople don't they don't do that, or they they've forgotten that art and they don't put it at the forefront when they're gonna sales process.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: What is a value proposition for those who haven't heard that term before and and the importance of really getting that right in your sales process?
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: So a value proposition um is not to be confused with a marketing value proposition.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll explain the difference.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: So a sales value proposition is when the sales professional conducts an appointment setting or the office manager, depending on how the business is structured, around what's in it for them.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: So let's just say for your business, for an example, you have the Profitable Writers Podcast.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: I actually really love that title because right off the bat, you're you there's something in it for the customer.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: Right off the bat, somebody connects with you, that's what they get.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's it, it's a good value proposition name.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: So your value proposition, let's just say somebody says, I want to know more about how to be a profitable writer.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well, in your case, let's just go with your scenario.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, actually, Mr.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: Customer, what I do here, and is your is your that's the name of your business, the profitable writer, if I may ask, Kent?
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's the name of this this podcast as well as the membership group.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: Good.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: So that's so you would simply here's the value proposition.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: You help writers take their skill set and turn into profit.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's your value proposition.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: So and your target market is writers.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: See, it's not, I mean, nothing against a mechanic, nothing against, you know, a mailman, but you're not helping male, and they may be part-time writers if that's the case, but really your target market is someone who wants to write and turns their skills into profit.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: So when you say that or communicate that in the phone call, in a text, or in your marketing material, the more qualified meeting you have, and the stronger consultation you can have as well.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: Does have any questions around that so far?
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll give you a little bit more to kind of hone in on this part of the sales process if that helps you.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, we'll get back to the conversation in just a minute, but I want to take a couple moments to give a huge thanks to today's sponsor, Vellum.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, for years, my go-to choice for book formatting software has been Vellum.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: Vellum gives you the power to build, style, and preview your book and have a ton of fun while you're doing it.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's a reason that Vellum is the go-to choice for Mac users who care about creating beautiful ebooks and print books and want to save tons of time in the process, and that reason is that Vellum is easy to use, it's a lot of fun, and it produces really great looking print and ebooks.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: And the best part about all this is that you can download Vellum and play with your book's formatting to your heart's content.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: You only have to purchase when you're ready to publish.
• 14:41
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• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: To download Vellum for free and give it a whirl, go to trivellum.com slash daily.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's trivellum.com slash daily.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, this show is for writers who want to build a profitable writing-based business.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um in my experience, and I I know I'm generalizing here, but writers as a whole, most most of us did not come from an entrepreneurial or a business kind of a background.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: So we're not really used to thinking in these terms.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people who are in this, even uh if we want to make a business around it, we do it, we we initially started doing this because we love books, we love writing, it's a skill set that we have, but we don't really know how to create a business around it.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: For for those kinds of writers who don't automatically think like business people, what are some ways that they can begin uh figuring out what their value proposition is?
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they're editors, maybe they're ghostwriters or freelance writers.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: How do you figure out what your value proposition really is?
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: Is it something that you just decide on your own, or do you really need to do some market research and talk to people?
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: What's the best pathway to discovering what that is?
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think, and it can get in a situation like that where it's a ghostwriter, and that's where kind of I feel I could you know you more for that more than myself.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: But let's just say, for example, um so give me an example.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: Have you worked with somebody who's a ghostwriter or somebody who works in an XYZ industry?
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just take education.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: Is that something you're familiar with at all?
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: If you work with that before, if I may ask, Kent?
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: I did.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: I actually was a college professor for about 17 years, so I'm very much familiar with the education world.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so awesome.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: So let's say a ghostwriter wants to penetrate that market, right?
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: What is the benefit, solutions, and results the ghostwriter is to that institution and your experience?
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just start there.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's a good question.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um my first response probably would be if you're a ghostwriter, don't target education people because they don't have any money typically.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: And because they know I'm being a little sarcastic, but uh, but actually kind of not.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um I actually have told people there, you know, there's a reason I don't typically ghost write for people in like the church world or the education world, um, because there's there's not nearly as much money flowing in those industries as there is like business or entrepreneurship or whatever.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: But let's let's set that aside.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I think the main thing that I would want to know from somebody that I was ghostwriting for, whether they're in education or not, is what is that you want to achieve?
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what what is your goal?
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then I would try to figure out okay, what how how does what I'm doing, how is that valuable to them, whether it's saving time or money, increasing their expertise, their authority in their niche or or whatever it is.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I try to find out what's important to them, and then how does what I do help get them more of that essentially?
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: Gotcha.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: So a couple things I'm gonna speak to right there.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: So a couple things you said, and I'm gonna I'm gonna challenge you on them, and I'm not gonna challenge, I'm gonna do it in a way where I'm not trying to come across disrespectful if that's fair.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: One of the things you said was they don't have any money, right?
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: Number one.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: Number two, you did just do a good job having open-ended questions, right?
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: Right there.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: You said, what do you want to accomplish?
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: What da, boom, boom, boom.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: Those are open-ended questions.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: We'll get into that.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: Now, let's go just a little bit narrow, a little bit deeper.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: Let's say that one of those churches, let's put the fact they have no money to the side.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: Let's put the fact to have none of that to the side.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: Let's say that you went in there and they paid you.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: They had all the money in the world, and they said, Kent, you're our guy, or this XYZ professional, you're our guy.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: You're you're you're our guy.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: When you're done delivering your service as the ghostwriter of the education, what are you giving them when the job's done?
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: Start there with that question.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: What are you giving them?
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: Just answer that question, if I may ask.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: When you're done, what you're giving them, I mean, the you mean the the product or the value of the product, the service, etc.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: Just start there.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: What are you giving them?
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: Typically, it's a it's a finished manuscript of some kind, ready for editing.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: Finished manuscript, ready for editing.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: Go a little more.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: Give me a little more, okay.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that's a good question.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, if I'm doing publishing services, it would be obviously doing all the project management for that, handling the editor, graphic designer, okay, Amazon, KDP stuff, whatever.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um so would you say you sh in one sentence, and I'm gonna take a shot at this, and then you're gonna help me fill in the gaps, Ken.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Would you say that you help them streamline the process to taking the writing they have and elevating it in a shorter amount of time?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: Would that be a shorter way of saying that, if I may ask?
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, not really, because I would typically not be taking their writing and doing something with it.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: It would be I'm I'm typically doing all the writing myself.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: So all that.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: So that's technically the value proposition.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: Let's take all the technical to the side.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: So and let's go back into that.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: Everything you said, what we need to do when I work with an individual and we book an appointment, we need to be able to say in one sentence how everything you do is in one value statement.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: So the writing, all the pain associated through publishing, all the because people will buy for advantage to their institution.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: And here's the other thing that a lot of salespeople do that you mention, I don't is they go in with self-fulfilling prophecies.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: Self-fulfilling prophecies kill sales.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't mean I'm turning this kind of into a coaching new session.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: I don't mean for it to do that, but it kind of organically did that.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: I don't tell people to go, they don't have any money.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: Well, they don't do this.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: No, if we do a really good job keeping the solution in front of the whole time, people will find the money.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: And when you do a quality consultation with good follow-up, they're gonna give it to you.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: So let's go back to the value proposition.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: So if I'm a ghostwriter, we're gonna use this example.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: One of the things that I we have to define is how do you, in one to two sentences, tell that prospect, tell that customer base, your target market, let's just say education, institutions, that when they decide to do a consultation with you, you'll help them better have what result.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: So here's an example.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just say I'm a ghostwriter.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: This is Paul with Ghostwriters LLC.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: I help education institutions take all the pain away from ghost, you know, ghostwriting and everything associated with it.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's a very lame value proposition, but you can start.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: To see that I want to give them the end result first, and I want that to be the lead-in for why to do the appointment.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: And what would take a little more time, unfortunately, in this case is a deeper dive into what that end result looks like.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: For me, off the top of my head is you help ghostwriters, you help education services streamline their writing needs through your services.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like that would be a short, simple, you know, value proposition.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: Now, when I've worked with realtors, I tell them, well, you're not really selling a home, you're taking the pain away from renting all that.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: So you help renters.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: So when I worked with like a real estate company once in this training, I helped renters become homeowners and give their family comfort over ownership.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like that was one value proposition I did with like a real estate company.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: But that took a day and took two hours of a deep dive of we got to start with the end result and bring it to the beginning.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what we do to book our appointment.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: And that's one of the things your business will help them do.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: But one of the things I do across this country, and all I've spoken in 30 states about this now, I want to say, is I spend about two hours just helping salespeople.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: Who's your target market?
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: Boom.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: What is the benefit, solution, and result of what you do?
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: Boom.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: That needs to be what the appointment is booked around.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: And when I work with, you know, last example, and then we'll take a question if it's fair.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: When I work with electrical contractors, I tell them you don't help homeowners, and let's say they're selling a generator in this example.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: You don't sell generator.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: You help them have customizable backup power needs.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: You help homeowners have customizable backup power needs.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: And what I have found, Kent, is the electrical contractors that take my class and do that see about an 80% drop in cancellation rates.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: Customers respect their time.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: They prioritize them.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what you want, but they're not going to prioritize you if the appointment it's set around is to I sell ghostwriting skills.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: You see, it's too general.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: But if you you got to target it, you got to narrow it.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of no, I don't, I've never shot a gun, but I say the rifle approach, not the shotgun approach.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: You got to hone it in, you gotta narrow it in, and you gotta hit it right there so that when we book the appointment, they go, okay, I'm getting this result and service if I decide to invest with this individual or company.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: And we have to keep it that clear and that simple.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: That was a lot of writers.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a lot.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: But so for writers who are selling services, correct.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: Then it's really critical for them to sit down and think about what are basically what what are the emotional things that you're fulfilling?
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: What are the emotional needs that you're fulfilling for the client?
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're not just selling a service, it's what does that do for them and what does that mean to them?
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: Whether it's comfort or safety or protecting their family or whatever the result might be.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: Are there certain categories of you know, like when you think about what is really the end result of what a product or service is helping somebody with, are there a certain number of of the deepest emotional needs that you really try to hit with people, the things that really drive or motivate us?
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think in those terms?
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, here's the thing.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: I do think in that terms, depending on who I'm working with, because part of what I train also is human behavior styles.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: So it it depends on the behavior, because that can be divided based on environment and circumstances.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: What I focus on, Kent, is I focus on whether I can I have a value and a service and I can customize it to a target market.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: So one of the things I would tell a writer, kind of going back a little, who is your customer?
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: And when I say who is your customer, Kent, these are questions they should ask themselves.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just go there.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: Number one, who is your customer?
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't, and the answer cannot be all God's children.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: That cannot be that.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: I mean that respectfully.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: It needs to be homeowners, it needs to be specific.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: Who is your service for and who will pay for it or is looking for it?
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's the first question they need to ask themselves.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then once someone says yes, they give you the money, what is the end result?
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's the second question.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: You have to spend time with those two things and you have to define it clearly and easily.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's that simple.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: Did that answer your question or did I give you too much?
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: No, that that's really that's really good.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's really good.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just wondering if there are certain certain kinds of emotions or motivations that we have as humans that if we can figure out a way to connect our product or service to those things, then it'll be a much clearer value proposition for the client or the customer.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the number one pain, the number one emotion is anything associated with a painful experience.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: Helping someone to avoid a negative outcome is typically one of the fastest drivers into booking a consultation.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: Typically, you know, that's but not every service is built around pain.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like some services are built around giving someone, and when I say pleasure, I mean in the sense that when they buy this, they get XYZ feeling.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you go to a nicer restaurant to have nice candlelit dinner and all that, you pay more for that experience.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: But a restaurant where it's more of an inbound sales process, you know what you're getting when you walk in or like a store is not a consultative sales process.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's a transactional sales process when you look at a restaurant.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: When you're going more outbound and like, you know, because you had mentioned the introvert, right?
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: We let's talk about that.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: The introvert who may not be comfortable initially with these skills right away.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: Well, here's what you need to also spend time with.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: What does your marketing material say?
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: Is it in line with your sales messaging to create inbound leads?
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason I say that, Ken, is there's a really good article from the Harvard Business Review about something we call the Great Divide.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: They studied companies, and what they found is bigger companies, one of the biggest challenges, and it was like Fortune 100 companies, is marketing typically has a different value proposition than the sales side of companies.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: And this is a typical thing you see in big companies.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: However, the more investment companies make into bridgeting the marketing messaging and the sales messaging together actually profit more most of the time.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason that is, is because they start to inlign the value proposition together.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a way an introvert could easily and pragmatically say, okay, does my business card have my value proposition?
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: Things that they could small steps along the way.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: Is my marketing value proposition the same as my sales proposition?
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: So when I create that inbound connection, whether they decide to go to a networking event or send someone a message through LinkedIn through a video, it's in line with each other.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: So that's some tangible steps that they could do and where they're comfortable at to start communicating their value proposition where they don't have to feel like, all right, I have to make 400 cold calls to get, you know, because that, you know, I had to do that.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: But I again, I I always tell people put yourself in situations ideally where you could sell from inspiration, not desperation.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: Ideally.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's good.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: There are a lot of things that introverts can do.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's that don't require you to manufacture some sort of crazy extrovert personality.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, that's how I got my second ghostwriting client was I sent somebody a message on LinkedIn.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: It was very sincere.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: I just said, hey, a lot of people in your circle, tell me how awesome you are.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I complimented them on their business.
• 30:38
  unknown: Yeah.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't even know they were looking for a ghostwriter.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I was just saying, hey, I think you're doing an awesome job.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, lo and behold, they needed a ghostwriter.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: So you just never know what's going to happen when you do things like that.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that's something that very much an introvert can do.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to go out to conferences or whatever.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, LinkedIn seems like a it's like a just treasure trove that's just waiting for us to take advantage of it.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and I'll and I will tell you this, as somebody I I'm starting to more avidly avidly, sorry, avidly use LinkedIn more.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I am finding that when I leave with like a video or a value proposition, because I'm an extrovert, I get my energy from people.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um it is a treasure trove, there's a ton of opportunities out there.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: And here's the third thing you mentioned that a lot of salespeople don't have, and you have it when you had said what you said about you send someone a message just complimenting them, is they don't have good intentions.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I know this is gonna sound a little philosophical, but some of the best salespeople or sales companies have good intentions behind their sales process and they lead with it around the whole skills and practices.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: I was talking to a business owner here where I live in Ohio, really big business owner.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: He's got seven salespeople, very successful.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: He sent all his salespeople to my class.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I had an opportunity after I had spoken um was it Trenton, North Carolina, or is it South Carolina?
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: I was speaking in the Trenton area, the Bible Belt, you know, you know I'm familiar with.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember we connected and he said something to me that stays with me to this day.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: He says, I tell my sales guys, if you don't care about the customer on some level, you're not gonna be successful here.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's what he told me.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: He says, I tell all my salespeople, if you don't care about the customer on some level, you're not gonna be successful here.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a very rare thing to hear.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, like that you sent an email to someone just complimenting them.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: And that's good.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: You have to communicate good intentions, and you also have to do a good job of communicating the solution and service of what you do effectively, because that's how you can also compliment your customers.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: They go hand in hand as well.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's really good because uh there's so much material out there on sales and you know, business, and there's so many resources out there.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like it's easy to get lost in the technique of things and lose the basic humanity that has to be part of this process.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's hey, we care about people, we want to serve them by doing whatever it is that we do in our business, but ultimately this is about helping people and improving their lives, isn't it?
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's really what this is supposed to be all about.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's what sales is.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: It should be about do solution and service, lines it up with your customer, and good intention needs to follow.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, here's what you have, and I don't want to say this to sound daunting, but one of the things that are sometimes against us is scammers, people who take advantage of us, people who have services that are not about giving you solutions to avoid pain.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: They're about giving you solutions to you to have temporary pain.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's uh I mean, uh and unfortunately, and what you have fighting against you is a lot of negative experiences that's sometimes jading and obscuring your future customers.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: But here's what you have to remember it's it's not your fault, number one.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: Number two, it's not your job to change their paradigm.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know about you, Kent, but I'm in 20 years of doing sales, I have not been able to change anybody's paradigm in this world.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_03: Very true.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: But it is it is your job to have good intentions, communicate your message effectively, and when you do a good job of those two things consistently with enough action, you'll be able to not try to shift paradigms and manipulate.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: You'll actually start to influence people, and then you won't have to chase money.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: Money will chase you when you do that consistently with enough action.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's that's really, really wise because you you can't really change people anyway.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: I mean I've been married um many, many years, uh getting close to 30 years here in the next couple of years.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm always surprised, I'm always thanks.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm always surprised at how my wife and I can experience the exact same event or conversation and we interpret it totally different.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think anybody who's been with a partner for a long time would probably say the same thing.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so I mean, my goodness, if if I can't even change my own wife to see my paradigm, to see her paradigm the same way and or her me, then what odds do we have that we're gonna do the same thing with a customer or a client, you know?
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: Zero chance.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: No, zero chance.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: But if you lead with your value, you lead with good intentions, and you do that over X amount of reach outs or X amount of touches, like people seeing your material and that, eventually you will start to gain customers who want to buy from you.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is just the beginning.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the value proposition is a big pinch point, Kent, and that's just the start.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: The biggest skills that come following once you get good at this is how to do a quality consultation and how to execute strong, good follow-up, and how to keep a pipeline.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: Those are the things that also follow in the consultative sales process.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: We've really hit just on the surface, yeah.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: But this is a thing that a lot of us don't think about because we have all these self-fulfilling prophecies.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not trying to knock you again for saying this, but I don't I don't say like that guy has no money, that person's poor, that company stinks.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: What I say is I'm gonna give them my value proposition, and are they looking?
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's it.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: Are they looking when I give it?
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: And here's the benefit to when you really define this for yourself, it's gonna get your confidence up.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: So when you say to a person or your customer base Kent, you know, I'm Kent with profitable writers, I help writers take their writing skills and turn into profit.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: And somebody says no, well, they're not saying no to you personally, they're saying no to the benefit solution and result, which means they disqualify themselves, but that doesn't mean they're a bad person.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: They're just not ready at this time.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that that's a good point.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: And and when I say, and maybe I should clarify, like when I say, you know, this person, that person doesn't have any money, what I really mean is if I'm pitching my ghostwriting services or talking about ghostwriting, I probably wouldn't target education or church members.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: Right at this time.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's just you have to put it in other circles.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I get that.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: And you have to be strategic with your time because we've only got so many hours, you know.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um however, I absolutely would target those industries because I actually come from both of those worlds for like a membership community, because those are those are industries or you know, types.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: I use the word industry.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's not nobody says the church industry, but you know what I mean.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, those are very much fields where there are a lot of talented writers who want to make more money.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: So those are very much my target audience, at least partly for something like the profitable writer community or those kinds of things.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if that's yeah.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't mean to pick fauna, yeah.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't no, I think it's great.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think this is a great conversation.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: And um no, I love it when people just kind of uh you know, whenever we just I love being challenged, like so often in today's world, people are afraid to challenge others and say, yeah, maybe you should think about this.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's fantastic.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: This is why I do podcasting to learn and to grow and and um just to come and and see see what more I can learn as a writer and as a business person.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I appreciate your time and coming on the show.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: This has been great.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, thank you for having me.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is um this is a strong experience for me.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm as I told you launching the podcast at the end of September is kind of a new thing.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_01: Our business has done.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I wanted to do this, I was looking forward to this, and cool.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I want to make sure that your writers or listeners, when they hear this, that here's the thing when you listen to the content of your podcast and you do get challenged and you have those moments, allow the challenges to become coaching moments for yourself.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_01: Being challenged is actually a positive because it's a it's an organic way to get coached before a mistake is made.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think what we do sometimes, and I'm getting too philosophical, and I want you to have the last word.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: This is your show, Ken.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, is we don't we think in terms of criticism too much.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_01: Being challenged will allow you to coach yourself organically into being improved.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: Being criticized doesn't.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's sometimes why people don't like to be challenged.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's the other thing I was gonna speak to.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, this is good.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know how you end your show, but I want to get you're the star of it.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: This is your show, so I want to be respectful of that.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no, I try to make the guests a star.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, uh many times, I mean, I mean, seriously, um, I don't always say this verbatim, but uh sometimes I do before I hit record, is that I feel like my job as the host of the show is to make the guests look good.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: And to, you know, and sometimes I'll say uh whatever I can do to make you comfortable and to make you shine.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's really what my my job is.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: My inspiration for for hosting has always been this is gonna date me, I realize.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: My inspiration was always Johnny Carson, who I loved as a kid.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: I adored Johnny Carson.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_00: He was actually the exact same age as my grandfather.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh grandfather passed away many years ago, but Johnny had the ability to make guests really, really shine and to ask great questions.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: He could have the world's biggest celebrity, or he could have like uh some random farmer from the Midwest on his show talking about you know some kind of interesting thing.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: And he treated everybody exactly the same and really made that guest the the focus.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I that's what I aspire to do on my show.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe someday I'll get there.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I I I think you're on the right track.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm I'm rooting for you.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I can.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, so thank you for having me.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: And this has been a strong amount of time, and I hope that some of your listeners will take this and improve, is my intent.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure they will.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_00: This has been a blast.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for coming on the show.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate it.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Paul.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: Wasn't that fantastic?
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: I learned a ton from this conversation, and I hope that you took some notes as well, because what he shared with us about creating your value proposition is absolutely critical, particularly if you do any kind of client work.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, it's it's critical for any kind of business.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: Even if you are not doing client work and you're only building your author platform and you're owing only writing your own books and you're not doing things like ghostwriting, editing, or design or things like that, it's still really, really critical because whenever we ask people to invest with us, in other words, to spend money on a product or service that we offer, uh there has to be a clear value proposition.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: What are they getting in exchange for the money that they're spending on our products and services?
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: You have to get really clear on that because if you're not, your customers or clients are going to be really, really confused.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: So many thanks to Paul for spending some time talking with us today and helping us all get clear on what a value proposition is and why it's so important.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I want to take a second to give a huge thanks to today's sponsors.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_00: We already talked about Vellum in our mid-roll, but I want to highlight a couple of other sponsors who are part of our show today as well.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: And the first one is Thumbprint Creative.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: Now you've probably heard the saying, don't judge a book by its cover, but in the book world, that is a complete lie because we all judge books by their cover.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: People do judge the quality of the book by whether you have a great cover.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: And the cover, in fact, is the very first thing that people notice about a book.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why my graphic designer of choice is Christy Griffith, owner of Thumbprint Creative.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_00: Now I've worked with Christy for years, and she's designed book covers and the interior layout for some of my own books as well as my ghostwriting client books, in addition to designing a lot of book covers and doing the layout for many, many friends of mine that I've sent her away.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: Christy works really closely with you to design a layout for your book that perfectly captures the theme and genre of the book.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: I highly recommend her.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's definitely worth checking out.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: You can go to go thumbprint.com to learn more about Christy's services.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's Gothumbrit.com.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_00: I also want to give a big thanks to today's other sponsor.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: There's no such thing as Writer's Block, which is the brand new book from my friend and business coach Honore Corter.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: If you've been thinking about being more productive in your writing, uh, or you just want to know how to grow your writing business, uh this awesome little book is going to help you learn the secrets to keeping the words flowing.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: You'll learn what's really blocking you, you'll learn about the value of building your writer tribe, uh you'll learn how to become the writer you've always dreamed of, and much, much more.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I highly recommend you grab a copy of this book today.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's short, you can read it fast, but the lessons will impact you for a lifetime.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's called There's No Such Thing as Writer's Block, and you can grab it via the link in the show notes.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: All right, my friend, as always, thank you so much for listening, and I'll see you next time.