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Over-Selly: Why Marketing Feels Gross Right Now · Reframe

• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Reframe, where honest conversations create new possibilities.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: With Sarah and Danny, and each week we sit down together to explore life, growth, and everything in between.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: Hello! Hi Danny, how are you?
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, Sarah.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: Lovely to see you again.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm good and I feel fired up from our conversation that we are very quickly moving into to record, aren't we?
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: I feel fired up, I feel tingly, I feel passionate, which I'm hoping that means we're gonna get into something really juicy as we always do.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, actually, that really just struck me because as we record this, whether it's at the time where it's going to be heard, but we are collectively in gate 16, which means that when we're speaking from a place of enthusiasm about what we're speaking about, then it's really um something that we're supposed to talk about.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I think we should take that as a sign because we have just had this moment where we've gone, should we or shouldn't we talk about this, haven't we?
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and what I love about it is we go, let's let's test ourselves.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: And part of it was it feels a little bit uncomfortable, it feels a little bit different, it's kind of going against some of the views that we hear online.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: Everything I say, we will explain so we can put it into some context.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that can feel difficult, but I if I know anything about me and you is we embrace that, we push ourselves, and we're doing it live in action, which I think is also really important for us to be raw and messy and real, and so we're bringing that for forward, aren't we?
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: But to stop speaking in code and riddles, let's put the words into into play.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: We've just been having a conversation about marketing, specifically social media, and the way we are quote unquote supposed to or meant to or should be marketing ourselves, and how at the moment that just feels like it doesn't fit for me.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you are agreeing the same.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, when I go on my socials at the moment, I just don't want to be there.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't been on my phone a lot recently, but what I find really difficult is then that's the tool that's meant to push my business forward.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm in a real sticky place at the moment.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: I want to throw my phone against the wall whenever I go on it, but I'm like, pick it back up and post something, and then the pressure of that makes me go, I don't know what to post.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I put it down again, and I'm in a real, real difficulty with that, and I think it's slightly different to your experience, but also you're feeling some of the things as well.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I think we were both saying that particularly Instagram as a platform, um, just feels really kind of over selly at the moment, and you know, I hands up just for kind of like you know, that's me.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: I've I've been doing the same thing since, you know, like the end of last year.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: We, you know, seeing it as this is a place for my business, this is a place where I, you know, where I find clients, this is so so it bec does become something where it feels like you are offering products, things, you know, even if it's I think we we started talking about this is that even if it's kind of like something free or something low ticket or something that you you know you don't feel like is a huge investment necessarily, and it's like a nice way to get to know somebody, but it's that pressure then that goes that moves you into a channel where you are then being pressurized to to invest further and the constant emails.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, oh my goodness, I'm even avoiding my emails because there's just so many now.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I don't read hard, you know.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I I just wonder where this is all going because it just feels like it's a lot of noise, a lot of like creating stuff that people aren't necessarily seeing or engaging with or or want, and it's bombard sales by bombardment, like who's shouting the loudest?
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: Who's making the who's you know, it's like by kind of like by quantity instead of quality, we're kind of like finding ourselves in that space of who do we buy from?
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, and it's not that I don't want to invest in other like other founders, other entrepreneurs, because actually, especially female ones, that's exactly where I want to put my money because I have a true belief that you know that the money that we place into the people that hold integrity and have the right energy are going to change the world.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I have this vision of women, how women in business, in solo businesses, is as entrepreneurs, as founders can kind of like change the world.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: But I just find that this way at the moment just doesn't feel doesn't feel com like doesn't feel comfortable, and I think that what what we were saying was is that what happens is is you start to feel like there's something wrong with you because that's what it makes you feel like, and that there's something wrong that needs fixing within you um because you don't want to do it that way, or you're not kind of able to do it that way, doesn't feel comfortable to do it that way.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: So it was us exploring that.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: Is there anything that you that's coming up for you around any of the things that I've said there?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: I wonder.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: So much.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like my head has just exploded with all different things to say on it.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I will try and pick some of them.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: But like you say, for what we were talking about was the ethics of it, and ethics is so so important to me as a person, but also as a practitioner.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: I I regard ethics so highly, so I do find it uncomfortable in that space sometimes where you have to question the ethics of some of the marketing tactics, and I've definitely done it myself being in some containers and being advised to you know market in a certain way of pain points like we were talking about.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: I can absolutely understand the marketing point of it, and as I say, holding my hands up, I've I've done that as well.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: Because I also like to be challenged and called out for things, but just yeah, I guess the ethics of it, of what we were talking about was you've got this problem.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: Let me highlight it over and over again, probably make you feel bad about it, because I'm emphasizing it again and again, and I'm the one that holds the solution.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I've always talked about this in marketing.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: It ha the model that we that I tend to see is I'm the only person that can have this offer because of course they're a business owner, they're wanting to sell.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: I understand it all, but something that's never ethically fit right, fit right with me was there's not one solution to one problem to everyone, and it's not ever meant to be like that.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: And the example I gave was I went to a yoga class and it talked about connecting the mind and body and stillness and connecting to yourself, and I thought, wow, that's really interesting because yoga can give you that, and therapy can give you that, and somatics can give you that, and probably human design can give you that, and then I started to see there's so many different techniques and people and offerings that solve the same problem, but sometimes we then get into, especially on the online world, this is better for you, or no, don't go down this route.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I see it a lot with talking therapy.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: There was definitely a space where some creators would say, I never got results from talking therapy until I did somatics, right?
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: Until I did no sorry, until I did this thing, and that's never ever sat right with me.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because how can we say this thing is not gonna work?
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, the the ethics of it, I think I do sometimes find it difficult.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: And where do I sit?
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: Do I want to share?
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: Do I want to be the opposing view?
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: Which I'm encouraged to do because marketing I hear a lot of if you've got an opposite view, that's gonna get you great engagement.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: But when me and you come from a place of genuine ethics and genuine care and genuine passion, and you know what we do, what we believe in is so much more than what we're trying to sell.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like we literally, I feel, try to embody the things that we do and we believe in.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: I really, really find it difficult when there seems to be a bit of a mix match in that.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know any of that makes sense, or whether that's just me blurting out what's going on in my in my head.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: No, it makes perfect sense.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: And there was again so much that came through whilst you were speaking there, and I and I genuinely I one of the most important things I think that you said there for me anyway, was about that kind of sense of connectedness that you got, and that there are so many ways to create connectedness and that it's going to be different for everybody.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that actually that's the point, isn't it?
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like it's one of them, like to me, that interconnectedness of us all is a huge part of how we all succeed, and yet so much of this marketing is separating us from that in order to sell to us because it wants to say that it has the solution, so it almost takes us like it makes us feel like separated from ourselves so that they can bring us back into it.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I just don't know how long that has, what length, what longevity that has in the way that makes sense and see the energy changing.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: That you know, like we we started talking about um what's the options, what's the different, what's the different ways.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: If it's not pain points, I mean absolutely when something is being sold to you, or when you're looking for something to buy, you're looking to buy, invest, purchase something because you are looking to solve a problem.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I get that whole idea, of course, you've got to satisfy something in something.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to, there's got to be a desire for what it is that you're that you're selling.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know have the full solution to this, but I'd rather feel like connected to something and want to be a part of it and have it as something in my life that feels like it it kind of adds something rather than I'm buying from a place of scarcity, of like, oh my god, I don't have that.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: I need it, I need it, I need it.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you don't want to be drawn into like, let me be a part of that.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: I want to I want to fill more of myself up with that kind of like with that, with that product, with that kind of essence of whatever is there.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: That feels like something more desirable to me, a way of kind of of and and I'm sure if if we were marketing experts, there is absolutely ways that this is supposed to be.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: People would talk about what this is.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think you you know there there is certain things, isn't it, they say you'll you'll kind of buy around.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: Biotypes, yeah, there's money, yeah.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um uh uh I can't remember what they are, and I'm sure somebody would would fill us in who's listening.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: But yes, what sorry, what were you saying?
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, when you were saying that then, I think what I've seen in the past is certain biotypes, like you say, you want to feel connected.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: There's an emotional, there's a you that's as far as I got as well.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: I've heard them many times, but yeah, different ways that we or different reasons that we uh buy for, and therefore in marketing we can tackle that as well.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I and I see that, and it's great to know.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I think what we what we said is we just want to go online and say this is what we do, this is who we are.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like if this relates to you, if this resonates for you, we're here.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but it's it feels difficult to do that, and I think especially if you speak to marketing experts, and I absolutely am not a marketing expert, so you know, people will have uh big opinions, I think, on everything that we're talking about, and I'm sure that they would say, and probably have said to me as well, that's not gonna work.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: But something in me feels like why not?
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: I want to challenge that.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: Why not?
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because I believe in authenticity, I believe in connection, I believe in just you can feel the authenticity and the genuineness and the attraction and the magnetism.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think you you um touched on that.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: So why why can it not work?
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I thoroughly believe that online we should be ourselves and people then get the feel for us and connect and then can make their decision on on how to buy.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: But what you said in response to that was really interesting when you talked about different gates and different charts.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so um I was saying I said I was saying to you before that in recent times I haven't worked with somebody like so.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: If I've worked with a coach or an expert around marketing or around my business, the each of them has had this one gate, which is the gate 26, which is called the gate of marketing in human design.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: So in their human design, they've had this gate or um 26, which is about the ability and the gift of being able to spot what people want and to sell it to them, provide it for them.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: So it becomes it comes very easily to them to be able to create a marketing strategy plan to market to you, to be able to see what it is that you want.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: And these people are the ones that are really good at knowing what their niche client is, what their what their client is, they can see the client and they know exactly how to sell to the client.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like it could, it's just so easy to them.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's a natural frequency within them, and because it's there, it's also very aligned for them to do it.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: They have to hold an integrity around what it is that they're selling because they will know it's so easy for them to entice people into that.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and people with this will there will be people that won't use it in integrity, but they that's that that and they get a buzz from that as well.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a real buzz from being able to sell and inviting people into the sale, and the whole sales thing will come naturally to them, is aligned for them.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so these are the people that are then selling us this idea of how to sell because they can they know how to do it, and they they find it so easy.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: So because they find it easy, they think that their strategy or their blueprint for it will work for everybody, but it doesn't, and it can't, and it might highlight it like there might be other things in people's chart.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not just saying it's the only one that means that you can sell, that's absolutely not the case.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: There's lots of other ways that you could, you know, you you could, but this particular gate, like I say, is very strong and very uh, like I say, I've seen it in three different experts and coaches that I've worked with that do marketing.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: But you can have something else that means that you are like I have the gate 31, which is in the throat, and it's called the inf it's an it's influential leader um energy.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: And what it means is is that what I have to say to the right people is impactful and influences people.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: Again, it's one that you have to have a lot of integrity around because if you know that you can sway people by what you say, then you have to so people naturally then see me in that role as somebody who can provide information and can or can speak and lead and kind of you know take like sway people in a way, but not like you know, not like I say, not in a way that is is out of out of integrity.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: You have to be able to be speaking from a place that holds integrity, and that entices people into my energy.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: That will get people to come with me if they if they feel an alignment between what I'm saying and what you know what um what I kind of share.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um and there's all sorts of other other ways in which you are when you are your energy is aligned, that people will just be magnetized towards you regardless of how you're whether you're doing the marketing thing or not, they'll be drawn towards you.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: Now I don't I don't deny that there is a need for us to have a clear understanding of what it is we're selling and what it is we're sharing, and that can also sometimes be a problem.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: But the whole structure of how we do it, I think, is not just a one-way fits all.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's what we are talking about moving away from.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like how blaming the whole, like, oh, I'm not selling because because you know, I don't have that gate, or I'm not, you know, I don't want to do it the way that everybody, that's not it.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: There's so much more, isn't there, to our businesses.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: But what what we were saying is is that we want we we would like to be able to just be very clear on what it is that we do, share that with people, and people to go, yeah, there's a connection there, yes, I want that, I I want in on that, and then we're not feeling like we're needing to sway people, which which is what the marketing that we're talking about is all about is like messing with your nervous system, making you feel dysregulated, and then seeing that that thing that's dangled in front of you will solve the will solve that feeling, will make that feeling go away.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the biggest things that I've learned over the last few years in investing in other people and in small tickets and higher tickets is the lesson I learned was I needed to trust myself.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but it's so easy to get into these, like we were talking about, smaller offers or entry offers which are designed to then upsell, and it and that's not me.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I see I see the usefulness in it, I see how it could also be really beneficial.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: There's a need that you need to meet, and this person can meet it.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: There's absolutely that's fantastic, there's nothing wrong with it.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: But sometimes it's been it's led me to believe, like we said before, something's wrong.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't got this skill that I need that is really easy to obtain if I just you know hire this person or invest in this.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: When actually all along I needed to trust in myself, and to go back to the conversation that started off all of this is maybe all of this is feeling a certain way because it's a reminder I need to trust in myself.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I think when I started my private practice, I'm sure I've said this before, I literally had a bank account, an email address, and a directory, and I I built a business that way.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I think probably what I internally reacted to when you first brought up the topic was maybe right now I'm trying to force myself to be on social media in Instagram, and it it's not where I'm meant to be right now because it was last year, and I know that, and I showed up and it was a lot easier, and it feels very different to where I feel I am now.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe that is the message to trust myself that right now this platform is not where I need to be.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I need to be somewhere else and just to listen to that, but also that trusted is also having the courage to switch off from it, to not have to listen to everything's a problem.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: I've got this situation that isn't working, and I should be on social media and I should be consistent because that's a big message that I hear all the time.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, maybe consistency isn't what I have.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we've talked about that in my human design, and I don't think it I am meant to be consistent, but if I listen to the messages of post every day, be so consistent, be on social media, and that's not where I'm meant to be.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: Again, going back to where I think that's the unethical side or the lack of individuality of the messages that perhaps get shared on socials.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: And and I really feel that we um that learning to trust, you know, when you know yourself, like when you know yourself as a unique human being, an exquisitely unique, exceptional human being, and I see this all the time in my own clients, is you know, you you you start to when you see yourself through those eyes, which human design really helps you to do because it shows you your individuality, and it shows you that your way is different to everybody else's way, and that's okay, your way is the right way, and that you can then learn to trust in that way, and you don't need to be swayed by everybody else and what everybody's trying to sell you, and everything.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: And instead of kind of like buying from that place of anxiety, you can actually sit with something and go.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: Does this will this really meet a need within me?
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: Does this give me something expansive?
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm not I'm not just trying to fill a hole here, like kind of like plug something in a way.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, that we're kind of like it's that consuming to fix ourselves, isn't it?
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: Instead of consuming to kind of expand and grow ourselves.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's a diff there's a completely different energy behind that, isn't it?
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: And just having that calmness within you to go, yeah, no, I really do want to work with that person, and what they're what they're talking about sounds amazing, and I feel like I'd really benefit from that and I grow with that, and that would be so supportive to my business, is completely different from buying, like, oh my god, if I don't have that, I'm gonna fail.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and again, I feel like that goes back to what we were talking about of ethical marketing because ethical marketing would say I've got something that's gonna help and improve and expand, not you're missing something, and I'm the the the only solution to fill that gap.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, oh my goodness.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I wonder if we um we can kind of bring that round to sort of like to close off on that subject for now, just to leave that kind of like thought of maybe just create.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think you know that they l legally there's the could the cooling off period, isn't there?
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: General marketing, and we should really all just allow ourselves and give ourselves.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think when we feel enticed and excited to buy something, that space step away.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: I think you've literally said this to me before is to also check in, check in with myself because I've definitely bought from excitement, I've definitely bought from different states, and I think you've literally said to me, I'm someone that perhaps needs to pause and to not always buy from when I'm really high and not buy when I'm really low as well.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean that energetically, and to kind of sit with it, and that's based on my chart.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I've definitely I've definitely taken that on board and I can see the usefulness of it.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: But I think my conclusion, which is probably most of our episodes, to be honest, is connecting to yourself, trusting yourself, and be led from from that as opposed to the external and the external noise.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: Within go within always, I feel like this is like the answer to everything.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: It starts within you.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: You have to the you know, that's that's you have to be your ultimate authority.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: Cannot let something else, somebody else, some something that's outside of you be deciding your fate, your destiny, your it's like everything is within you that you need, and that's a big part of you know, like what human design shows us.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: So we don't all need we don't need all those things out there, but some of them some of them are nice to have, and some of them will help us move in the right direction and move where we're going.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, so just find going returning inwards and making that connection.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like when we first started, I was, I don't know what my energy was, a little, a little like this.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then when we started speaking, I was like, oh, this is such a topic to speak about.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: And now I just feel like I've had that breath.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you very much, Sarah, for bringing it up in the first place and everything that you've just said, which just allows me to release some of the things I didn't even know I was holding.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thank you for the nourishing conversation again, Danielle.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I shall see you again next time.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, see you then bye.