Latest / All The Right Movies / The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (2001) | Ep. 67 - Part 1

Transcript

The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (2001) | Ep. 67 - Part 1 · All The Right Movies

0:05
The Ring of Power. It has been found.
0:09
Sarah needs only this ring to enslave the world.
0:13
It must be destroyed in the fires of mud.
0:16
Doom strangers from distant lands.
0:19
You will unite or you will fall. You have my soul.
0:23
And you have my boat and my. This task was appointed to you
0:28
and if you do not find a way, no one.
0:31
The Lord of the Rings. The Lord of the Rings The
0:33
Fellowship of the Ring opened in 2001 and changed fantasy cinema.
0:37
Peter Jackson's epic adaptation of Tolkien's beloved novel, the
0:40
film follows the Hobbit's journey to destroy the One Ring
0:43
of Power and save Middle Earth from darkness.
0:45
My name is John, and the fool of a Tuks with me are not.
0:50
Nobody tosses the dwarf. And Westie.
0:53
You shall suck. From the Shire to Mount Doom,
1:00
all the right movies are talking hobbits, Wizards, and the film
1:03
that started it all. You have our sword and our
1:05
podcast. So 1 does not simply skip this
1:08
episode. Hello and welcome to All the
1:29
Right Movies, big fans of Second Breakfast, elevens, luncheon,
1:34
afternoon tea, Dinner supper and podcasters on classic and hit
1:38
films. In that order.
1:39
Nice crispy bacon. Well, as ever, we're telling the
1:44
story of Hollywood one film at a time, and today we're going
1:47
there and back again. Yeah, well, part of the way
1:50
there, anyway. The rest comes later.
1:52
Yeah, a third of the way there, we're getting there.
1:54
It's sword sorcery and cinematic history as we talk the film that
1:58
launched 1000 memes, The Lord of the Rings, The Fellowship of the
2:01
Ring. Yeah.
2:03
And to be clear, it is the extended edition we're
2:05
discussing, so even bigger. Oh, yeah.
2:08
It's not worth it otherwise, is it?
2:09
No, definitely not. Well, before we set off from
2:12
Hobbit and all, should we mention our own Fellowship on
2:15
Patreon? Yeah, let's do it.
2:17
Not quite as liquid if as a visit in Moria, but not far off.
2:20
If you're a regular listener to our podcast, you can help
2:23
support what we do by becoming an ACRM patron.
2:26
Patrons get access to our bonus podcast episode called Double
2:28
Feature, where we talk to films to feature on our main podcast,
2:32
and the Watch List, where we review more modern releases.
2:35
Yeah, and you get access to our whole podcast archive full of
2:39
bonus episodes and archived episodes of our main show, like
2:42
this one. So hundreds of episodes in
2:44
there. Yeah.
2:45
And you'll become part of the excellent ATRM community where
2:48
you can engage with lots of great movie fans like yourself.
2:51
You will. So to find out more, visit
2:53
patreon.com/all the Right movies.
2:55
Subscribe directly on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or YouTube.
2:59
Yes, one subscription to rule them all.
3:02
Indeed. But yeah, back to the day
3:05
though, and it is the Lord of the Rings Part 1.
3:07
Yeah, you put this one forward W 8, did I?
3:10
Of course you did of. Course I did.
3:12
You're mad, man. So why are we talking about it?
3:15
I mean, we'll have to, don't we? Let's be honest.
3:17
I mean, this was a huge spectacle at the time.
3:20
I was working at the cinema at the time, flying through the
3:22
book. The trailer was just
3:24
unbelievable. It was just so exciting.
3:26
And it was Christmas, and it was like, yes, yeah.
3:29
It still reminds us of being excited for the next Christmas
3:32
and the next Christmas. Like these three Christmases
3:34
were just absolutely fantastic. So we'll give you a reason to
3:36
like Christmas then, Westie. And then it's finished and now I
3:39
hate it again. I just have to watch these.
3:41
But yeah, it was just a fantastic experience in the
3:45
cinema, and I don't think I've had anything that's been close
3:48
to it, really. I mean, it's just feels really
3:50
personal as a film, but with the scale and the epic nature of it,
3:54
I don't know how that's possible.
3:56
I think it's just an incredible introduction to the whole world.
4:00
And just the sheer magnitude of it, just the bravery, it's just
4:04
ludicrous. I mean, we'll have to start
4:06
somewhere, but this was like the kind of film that I totally
4:09
needed brought up on Harry housing, you know, Argonauts and
4:13
Clash of the Titans and Sinbad and Warhammer.
4:16
Yes, yeah, yeah. As a kid, that's what I was
4:18
really into, just this fantasy world and there wasn't anything
4:21
quite like it. It's an evolution of that stuff,
4:23
I think, isn't it it? Absolutely is.
4:24
And it was just really what I was into and just that real
4:27
escapism, like it's a world very exciting, very well done, so
4:31
authentic and just an incredible, incredible film that
4:34
I'm really excited to talk about.
4:36
Yeah, similar for me. Read these foam memories of this
4:38
one coming out in 2001. I was 20 at the time, and I
4:42
remember the anticipation for it being like off the scale.
4:45
Yeah, it seemed to be on the cover of Empire magazine every
4:47
month for about a year and a half.
4:49
Yeah, it did. Yeah.
4:50
Just take the ring and then throw those space.
4:53
Yeah, everyone was talking about it so much.
4:55
Saw that before it did release. I read the entire trilogy source
4:58
material back-to-back in about two months.
5:00
Of course you did. Even if it wasn't going to
5:02
release, you still would have done that.
5:04
At some point. Yeah, yeah, I'll just make it
5:06
myself. And then when it came out, to be
5:08
honest, at first I was a little disappointed really.
5:10
I think the problem was that I just literally read the books.
5:13
So I had specific expectations about what it was going to be, I
5:16
think, right. But my opinions have evolved and
5:19
changed to think over the years. Some haven't, to be honest.
5:21
So looking forward to getting into all that are.
5:23
You still furious about Bombardil?
5:26
Is that the problem? Miss that guy?
5:28
Yeah. The story behind the scenes.
5:32
I mean, it's outrageous, isn't it?
5:34
It's. Ludicrous, that's what.
5:35
It is. Based on one of the most beloved
5:37
book series ever made. Fascinating story of how it came
5:39
to be made in the 1st place, followed by an absolutely
5:43
massive production. Yeah.
5:44
So big that researching this episode, I was left open mouthed
5:48
at times. So we'll talk about all that,
5:50
obviously, as well as chiming with some huge opinions as we
5:53
do. Yeah.
5:54
Yeah. And there's bound to be some big
5:56
laughs, yeah. There's bound to be.
5:57
Oh, yeah, Yeah. I mean, I've bought a new pad of
6:00
paper for this brand new, huge Jodor Extended Edition.
6:04
Extended Edition, Yeah. And Matt, have you been at the
6:08
Gaffers Homebrew? I love the homebrew.
6:10
What was that? I thought you did.
6:12
Yeah. So why are we talking to Yellow
6:14
to your TFO TR? Oh.
6:16
God. Yes, I just checked you.
6:18
Got that right. Well done.
6:19
Yeah, checks out. Every time.
6:21
This one, I didn't have massive expectations because I didn't
6:25
know what to expect. I hadn't read the books.
6:27
And all I knew Peter Jackson for at that point was the
6:29
Frighteners, Nice. And some early like splatter
6:32
horosaur. Combine those two things.
6:34
And what I was expecting was something along the lines of,
6:37
you know, the mummy, the bread and Fraser one.
6:39
All right. Yeah, I was expecting, you know,
6:40
something from a bit of an adventure book, something that
6:43
would be pretty lightweight at the same time.
6:44
Not much step through it, but then it got about half through
6:47
this and it just hit me how much depth the film did have, how
6:50
much more weight it had than I was expecting.
6:52
The sheer world building that was going on in the craft behind
6:56
it, but most importantly, the heart behind it all.
6:58
And it got to the end of my first thought was I have to wait
7:01
a whole year for the next one. Yeah.
7:03
Devastated. Yeah, it was devastating.
7:06
I was completely blindsided by how incredible this was.
7:10
And it is one of the most monumental productions anyone
7:13
has ever undertaken, which resulted in one of the most
7:16
monumental trilogies ever. And this is where it starts.
7:19
Yeah, So The Fellowship of the Ring was produced by A New Line
7:22
Cinema and Winger Films, distributed by A New Line and
7:25
released on December the 19th, 2001, filmed across get this,
7:29
150 locations across New Zealand over 438 days.
7:34
Like covers all three of them. The film was directed by Peter
7:37
Jackson, written by Jackson, Fran Walsh and Phillipa Boyens,
7:40
based on Jr. Tolkien novel of the same name,
7:43
and stars Elijah Wooders, Frodo Baggins, Ian McKellen is
7:45
Gandalf, Viggo Mortensen is Aragorn, and an epic ensemble
7:49
cast including far too many people to mention right now.
7:53
We will as we go though on that. We should mention as well that
7:57
with the films and the production being so massive,
7:59
it's impossible to cover everything in one episode.
8:01
Yes, unless you want to be here for 12 hours.
8:03
So yeah, what we've done is, much like Peter Jackson, we've
8:07
planned out the whole trilogy. I mean, we're surely going to be
8:09
doing the next two as well at some point.
8:11
Oh definitely going to make it a yearly thing now.
8:13
Definitely same time next year we'll do it.
8:15
Same time next year we'll do 2 towers, yeah.
8:17
So anything you think we might not cover here that will be
8:19
coming in those episodes? Yeah.
8:21
That said, we are still covering a hell of a lot this time round.
8:24
Yeah. Well, then let's hunt some walk.
8:28
Should we? Let's do it.
8:29
We're heading to Middle Earth. First, stop the Shire as we talk
8:32
the beginning of the Fellowship of the Ring.
8:37
The beginning. The Fellowship of the Ring drops
8:42
us into Tolkien's fantasy world through the lens of Peter
8:45
Jackson. Like a bomb.
8:46
It does. We're going to be talking main
8:48
character introductions, the start of Frodo's journey, and
8:50
the arrival of the Ring race. But before that we get a bit of
8:53
back story. Just a little bit, just a touch.
8:57
So the film opens with the longest prologue ever, Cate
9:00
Blanchett as the Alvin Lady Galadriel narrators through
9:03
thousands of years of Middle Earth history and the story of
9:06
the One Ring. We see the four the Rings of
9:08
power, the war games, the Dark Lord Sauron and the tales of
9:11
previous ring bearers is he'll do Gollum and Bilbo Baggins.
9:15
Matt quite the opening. This isn't it.
9:18
Just a little bit. It's not going to hold your
9:20
hand. This film, this is full on.
9:22
This is the world we're in. This is who we're talking about.
9:24
And if you don't understand the seriousness, you do when you get
9:28
that glimpse of that battle with Sauron.
9:30
I mean, that bit itself, it's only about two minutes long, but
9:33
it's already got such an epic scope that you go hang on,
9:36
they're doing this in the 1st 5 minutes.
9:38
Where is this going to go from here?
9:41
Because that shot where the camera just drops from the Cliff
9:43
edge where you've got all the arcs being shot down with the
9:46
arrows and it follows over the top of the army charging towards
9:49
the elves and the men. I've never seen anything like it
9:52
before, certainly not in the 1st 5 minutes of anything.
9:54
And it does. I think that Jackson is really,
9:57
really great at in these battle scenes where the epic and scope,
10:00
but he always picks out a little detail that sticks out in here.
10:03
It's when the left fly with the arrows and one with this battle
10:06
last Elrond so close it flicks his hair up and he gives a
10:10
little flinch. Yeah.
10:11
So this is just exposition in action blended perfectly and
10:14
like say the 1st 5 minutes. This is ridiculous, Yeah.
10:18
It really is from the very beginning.
10:19
The film start with a black screen for about 30 seconds
10:22
we're yelling an elvish woman speaking, and then that gets
10:24
translated by Cate Blanchett to English.
10:27
And then that like burnt gold Lord of the Rings logo phase in.
10:30
Yeah, I love it. I'm in and nothing's happened
10:32
yet. Just a logo, yeah.
10:36
As a prologue, it's insane. The scale is there instantly 7
10:39
minutes long, tells a story that's worthy of like a 12 hour
10:42
trilogy in its own right. Yeah.
10:44
And just the visuals the show us that battle, the battle of the
10:47
last Lions, it's called. And you mentioned it, Matt, that
10:50
helicopter style CGI shot of the thousands of orcs pouring down
10:53
Mount Doom with a huge choir in the score.
10:56
How? Big is that.
10:56
Yeah, it's like 90 seconds in or something.
10:59
Yeah. I mean, some opener tells us
11:01
everything we need to know about the world, the rings, Sauron,
11:05
orcs, elves, golem in his cave. It's world building about as
11:08
good as it gets, I think. And we see the benefits of the
11:11
huge production in the first few minutes.
11:13
When we do see in here Gollum, it's Gollum.
11:15
They haven't dropped him in here, then had to go away and
11:17
design him and cast him for the next film.
11:19
So it all flows perfectly. And I think as a prologue, it's
11:22
like borderline masterpiece to be honest.
11:25
It sets up themes, it establishes the world.
11:27
It's ginormous and it's thrilling.
11:30
A fitting way to start a Lord of the Rings trilogy.
11:32
Yeah, every time I watch that opening battle sequence, I
11:34
think, oh, we're going to see this later.
11:36
Yeah, this is just a clip. Surely this is big enough where
11:39
it's like the set piece and I will see it again and you never
11:42
can see it again. That's it.
11:44
This is the starter. This is the starter that's like
11:46
this is your chicken tikka and that's it.
11:49
The curry's coming up. You just got to wait for it.
11:51
It's just unbelievable how this is just a part of the prologue
11:54
and it is so big in scale and just so epic.
11:57
But then them shots of the Misty Mountains.
11:58
Oh, beautiful. It starts with such a powerful
12:02
confidence. This is the dialogue, this is
12:05
the accent, this is how we're going to shoot it.
12:07
This is an action set piece right at the top.
12:10
It's a film in itself, to be honest, and Cate Blanchett's
12:12
voice over is just absolutely glorious.
12:15
It is beautiful. The vision is there from frame 1
12:17
isn't? It Oh, totally.
12:18
That's it. This is the vision.
12:19
This is what we're doing. It's just consistently
12:22
brilliant. I agree.
12:24
Yeah, and when writing the film, Jackson knew early on there'd be
12:27
a prologue as as we've been saying, there's a lot of
12:30
exposition to set up. Yeah, he gave it a Philip of
12:32
Boyens to write and told that she had 4 pages to do it.
12:35
Jackson then decided he didn't want to start with the prologue,
12:38
but when they put it in front of New Line, their one piece of non
12:41
negotiable feedback was him. Must be prologue.
12:45
The best studio note ever. Yeah, I know, right.
12:48
I mean, of course I had to be 1. Now we have it.
12:50
I think Jackson was apparently planning on starting just with
12:52
Billbo's monologue about hobbits.
12:54
That would get straight after the prologue.
12:55
Right. So a slightly softer opening.
12:58
But the way it transitioned from the prologue to that bit.
13:00
Glad Real says for the time will soon come when hobbits will
13:03
shape the fortunes of all. And that crossed us all, from
13:06
the, like, sweeping mountains to the mountains on the famous
13:08
Tolkin map. Yeah.
13:09
Yeah. And then it panned from the
13:10
whole map. Yeah.
13:11
And up to reveal Billbo and back end.
13:13
Yeah. What a shot.
13:14
That is unbelievable, incredible.
13:16
The narration was originally read by Frodo speaking at the
13:19
end of the trilogy. That then changed to Gandalf
13:21
narrating. Jackson didn't like either of
13:24
them narrating as they weren't alive during the events.
13:26
So you had the idea of using Galadriel as it showed the
13:28
immortality of the elves, which I think is a lovely touch.
13:31
It is, yeah. And the dialogue is really,
13:33
like, theatrical and dramatic. Obviously it's supposed to be.
13:35
A wonderful bedtime story, isn't it?
13:38
Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, some of that can handle
13:40
that better than most. And one of them is Cate
13:42
Blanchett. Her narrations fantastic.
13:44
I love it when she's like, they were all of them.
13:47
Deceived. Yeah.
13:48
Brilliant. That could be laughable in
13:50
someone elses hands. It's perfect.
13:53
Yeah, it's great. And we only see Saron for about
13:56
one minute of screen time here. But create them was still a
13:58
massive job. Jacksons Effect studio Wet
14:01
Workshop did the design and constructed the suit from Real
14:04
Steel. It was so complex that it took
14:06
six weeks to build it and the guy inside the suit was in New
14:09
Zealand. Stoneman called Salah Baker.
14:11
He said playing Saron was the greatest thing that ever
14:14
happened to him. Wow.
14:15
I mean, it's a great thing to tell people, isn't it?
14:17
I was Saron. I was.
14:19
But anyone could do that. Yeah, well, good.
14:21
That was Saron. Well, Salah Bake, I said.
14:25
The Jackson's acting brief to him was really simple.
14:27
You just said Darth Vader has got nothing on you.
14:30
Wow. Nice.
14:31
Perfect. Slamming people everywhere, Do
14:35
people just disappear? And when he's swinging at them
14:37
it's just so good. Yeah, there were a few cast and
14:40
crew cameos in the prologue as well.
14:42
Crew members from the effects team went a workshop, played a
14:45
few of the elf warriors during the battle.
14:47
The seven dwarf Lords are mostly went a workshop.
14:49
Crew members, obviously. I mean they look like when a
14:51
workshop crew members as I would imagine them to be anyway.
14:57
And one of the concept designers, Alan Lee, plays one
15:00
of the 9 Kings of Men. Yeah, we'll talk a bit more
15:02
about Alan Lee and what a workshop later, but that bit
15:05
with the 9 Kings? Glad Real says nine rings were
15:07
given to the race of men who, above all else, desire power.
15:10
Well, don't give any to them then.
15:13
Certainly don't give them nine asking about trouble.
15:17
We do find out later with someone who made the rings, so
15:20
fair enough. Yeah, yeah.
15:21
And that's our epic opening prologue, the history of Middle
15:24
Earth. Up to now, yeah, we've seen the
15:26
Rings power. Time to see where that power
15:28
leads, I think. Yep.
15:30
Let's do it. The film then properly begins 7
15:35
1/2 minutes in. Yeah, we see Bag End, home of
15:37
the Baggins, is Hobbit in their village within the Shire, and
15:40
Gandalf arrive for Billboard's birthday party.
15:43
Yeah, we meet Sam, played by Sean Astin, Mary played by
15:46
Dominic Monaghan, and Pippen, played by Billy Boyd here as
15:48
well, before Gandalf sent Frodo packing and off on his journey
15:52
with the Ring. I can definitely see you living
15:55
in Hobbit and Matt Love. It so much, do you know that?
15:58
So what do you think of it? Just root vegetables all day
16:02
long. Amazing.
16:03
It's the contrast in Gandalf's behavior that's so effective
16:06
because when he first turns up, he's just quite this very jovial
16:09
character, quite funny. And then when he comes back, he
16:12
looks so incredibly rattled and paranoid.
16:15
And, you know, just the change, The Hobbit in itself, you know,
16:18
the darkness that it's now shrouded in.
16:20
And when Gandalf takes the ring out of the fire and he asks
16:23
Florida if he sees anything on it, and he says, oh, there's
16:25
nothing. No, wait.
16:27
The way that McKellen plays that expression on Gandalf's face
16:30
from relief to quiet despair is so good because it's that thing,
16:34
that love, when you see it in a film where there's no dialogue
16:36
being or every thought that the character's thinking.
16:39
And he with Gandalf, it's, Oh, no, this is the worst possible
16:43
outcome. And as well, you just get great
16:45
sound design here as well. All those whispers you hear
16:47
coming from the Ring, along with those amazing close-ups of it.
16:50
I love all that. It gives it a genuine presence
16:52
as a character, which it needs to be.
16:54
And this moment really lands in terms of this is when you start
16:57
to take this seriously because everything in Hobbit and so far,
17:00
it's just been really kind of light and bucolic.
17:03
And now it gets dark. Yeah.
17:04
Well, I call this give us a sense of like shy our life,
17:07
which is just everyone getting pissed.
17:09
It seems like amazing. Yeah.
17:11
Billboards won the 11th birthday party.
17:12
It's just a massive session. That line delivery, it's my
17:17
111th birthday. It's like Glastonbury,
17:22
everyone's off the Reds, but it's nicely done because it
17:25
makes you care about the Shire. You see why it's worth saving.
17:28
And that motivation gets mentioned by the hobbits
17:30
throughout the whole trilogy. Yeah.
17:31
Yeah. So the party is great, but after
17:33
the party, how cool is that shot in Bag End before Bilbo leaves,
17:37
where he drops the ring and it just, like, sticks to the floor
17:39
with a thud. Yeah.
17:40
What an image. No exposition needed when all
17:43
those things going on. Yeah, but the scene for me is
17:46
when Gandalf returns that you're talking about to see Frodo
17:48
having done his research on the Ring.
17:50
He's all wild eyes and crazy. It's great.
17:53
Yeah. Too much of the halflings leaf.
17:55
Absolutely not enough. And there's a cutaway scene
17:58
where we suddenly cut the Mordor and Gollum being tortured, and
18:01
he's like Shire Baggins. And the tone suddenly shifts
18:05
completely. We move from like the cozy Shire
18:07
to the horror of Mordor. And it's totally seamless.
18:10
And that little montage where Frodo was like, but that would
18:13
lead them here. And we're cutting back and forth
18:15
to the ring waste on the way. That is fantastic.
18:17
The stakes get raised just from that.
18:20
I think it's some great storytelling that sets the scene
18:22
for everything, really. When Jackson was cast, the film
18:25
he considered hiring Sylvester McCoy is Billbo, before setting
18:28
on Ian Holm. Holm had already voiced Frodo
18:30
Baggins in a BBC Radio adaptation of Lord of the Rings,
18:33
and McCoy later played Radicast the Brown in Jackson's The
18:36
Hobbit trilogy. He did that radio version.
18:39
Sam was played by Bill Nye. Well, nice.
18:42
I like it already. Just running under a cool tap.
18:49
And the writers played around with the timelines from the
18:51
original books and these scenes. In the novel, the time between
18:54
Gandalf leaving after Billbo's party, going to Gondolf to get
18:57
information about the ring and then returning to back end is 17
19:01
years. Yeah.
19:02
And in the film, Frodo and Sam leave the shy with the ring the
19:05
same night Gandalf visits him. But in the novel, it's months
19:08
later. Yeah.
19:09
He was in nor rush Tolkien, was he?
19:11
No. 17 years old. Yeah, the right decision to
19:13
change that storytelling wise, surely.
19:15
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
19:17
And they don't tell us. But that's Ministerith, the
19:19
Gandalf visit in Gondor. We spend a load more time there
19:22
in the Return of the King. Yeah, we'll mention the moment
19:24
the ring sticks to the floor in Bag End.
19:26
And they did that by making the floor magnetic so it didn't
19:29
bounce great. And the ring itself was made by
19:31
a renowned New Zealand Goldsmith called Jens Hansen and the look
19:35
of it was based on the wedding ring of Rick Porras who was the
19:38
Co producer on the film. One Rick to rule them all.
19:41
I mean, don't wedding rings just look like wedding rings?
19:44
Well, I think it looks great. I think it looks exactly what it
19:46
needs to be. It's like simple but majestic.
19:48
Yeah, it's kind of square at the same time.
19:50
It's got like an edge. Yeah, yeah.
19:52
Kind of weird, yeah. Yeah, I love it when Gandalf
19:54
throws it in the fire and the words in like Black Speech
19:56
appear on it with the One Ring to rule them all stuff.
19:59
They're obviously really famous words from the book that have to
20:01
be in there, and they're doing such a cinematic way.
20:03
It's fantastic. Yeah.
20:04
Did everyone one buy one from Forbidden Planet when they came
20:06
out? No.
20:08
Put it in a little thing and it lit up.
20:09
It was like I'm not having. That, oh, did it right.
20:11
It's great. So Hobbiton was built in its
20:14
entirety as a village on a family farm near Matatama in New
20:17
Zealand, and it was overseen by the production designer Grant
20:20
Major in art director Dan Henner.
20:23
It had 28 separate Hobbit halls, and each one had to be
20:26
different. It was built a year before
20:28
production began to make it look like a lived in place and had
20:31
real vegetable patches and the large tree that stands over back
20:34
end that was built especially by the production team.
20:37
Every single leaf had to be manually attached.
20:39
No wonder it took 438 days to film.
20:42
Half the time was building that tree.
20:46
Well, you see behind the scenes footage even before the start
20:48
building sets. That location looks like
20:50
Hobbiton. Yeah, like lush greens and clear
20:52
lakes. Like a stunning place.
20:54
Yeah, it's fantastic. So I mean was the no anxiety
20:57
attached to make in this film whatsoever like a year before?
21:01
I change my mind every 7 minutes with anything.
21:04
So that's being built. You just look at it again, go
21:06
out. It's not what I fancied
21:07
actually. Exactly.
21:08
In the scene. Yeah, and then after production
21:10
wrapped, the Hobbiton sets weren't destroyed, the family
21:13
farm stayed open, and Hobbiton remained there.
21:15
So too subtraction and you can actually walk through The Hobbit
21:17
holes and visit the Green Dragon Inn.
21:19
Brilliant. Well, there you go, Matt.
21:20
If you want to live in Hobbit and you can absolutely want to,
21:23
I'd love to go there. Sounds brilliant.
21:25
Yeah, be unreal. And there were two sets built of
21:28
back end, one was built for Ian Holm and Elijah Wood and the
21:31
other was 33% smaller for Ian McKellen which was to make
21:35
Gandalf look much bigger than the hobbits.
21:36
And they also use a 7 foot 4 actor called Paul Randall to
21:40
stand in for McKellen and some of these shots.
21:42
Tall Paul. He was known as, obviously. 33%
21:47
like you figured that out. Somebody did.
21:51
I would have. Just went 35, you know what I
21:53
mean. But also that moment where
21:55
Gandalf turned and banged his head on the ceiling near the
21:57
start. Yeah, that wasn't in the script.
21:59
You, Mccullen, had lived it and Jackson kept in the film.
22:02
You actually thought it was real?
22:03
Right. Brilliant.
22:05
So after that, Gandalf's going to need a little bit of help, so
22:07
he goes to his old friend Saruman, let's say Christa
22:09
Valley here. And he is so right for this
22:12
part. It's.
22:12
Unbelievable. But he looks amazing, he sounds
22:15
amazing. But what I love is the dialogue
22:18
between them here and how beautifully it's delivered and
22:20
how seriously everyone takes it was like, tell me friend, when
22:23
did Saruman the Wise abandoned reason for madness?
22:27
Yeah, yes. I mean, what a ridiculous line
22:29
to pull it off. No problem.
22:31
Exactly. It's just incredibly Moorish for
22:34
me. It's just wonderful.
22:36
These two absolute legends rule on the screen.
22:39
And what Jackson said as well, that he hated like Wizards in
22:42
film and he hated magic in film, and he didn't actually want to
22:46
put that across. So there's just the lack of like
22:48
the lightning bolts and the blue fire and all of this stuff
22:51
flying everywhere. This is literally like 2 old
22:53
guys kicking the shit out of each other.
22:55
In. The pool feel the bones
22:58
snapping, but it's like it wasn't up until this fight
23:01
sequence where I went, oh, this is a Peter Jackson film because
23:04
he does that push in on that wide angle lens in the ceremony.
23:07
It's just warm. It's like a 12 mil or something
23:09
stupid. Great.
23:10
Yeah, that's Peter Jackson. There's a Peter Jackson film.
23:12
Then there's that cut the black and you just like, what about
23:14
your scene? What's going on?
23:16
It just pulls it in. And these two, when they're
23:18
acting together, is always an absolute joy.
23:21
In this scene for me, I just felt like I was getting pulled
23:23
in slowly each time, just like the rope was pulling us.
23:25
And this one was a big, big push forward.
23:28
It was really, really, really, really good.
23:30
All of it as well, just the way it starts, that overhead shot of
23:33
Gandalf galloping into Eisengard to start it all.
23:36
That's great. And it is obviously always a joy
23:38
to see. Christopher Lee.
23:39
Definitely. Yeah.
23:40
Is Sarah Man in his late 70s at this point.
23:42
And I think he's fantastic. I like it when he gives Gandalf
23:45
some crap. Like your love for the halflings
23:47
leaf has clearly slowed your mind.
23:50
Too many bongs for Gandalf. No, we went missing for 17
23:55
years. And.
23:57
Then the fight scene is brilliantly put together,
24:00
obviously using stuntmen for parts of it as Gandalf and
24:02
Sarman up, throwing each other all over the place.
24:04
I think it's most of it, but it's great though because they
24:06
can totally cover them up with long hair and beards and it's
24:08
just you can do what you want with the guys.
24:10
I think they're just an excellent job.
24:11
It's seamless. It is seamless the way they cook
24:13
between the stonework and then McKellen and Lee for the
24:15
close-ups. It is fantastic.
24:16
Yeah. Love Sarman and this whole like
24:18
intro to him. Brilliant.
24:20
Yeah, he's great. And Sarah Man's Tower and Ice
24:23
and Guard is, it's called Orthang.
24:25
It's all from the book, but Jackson needed it all created
24:27
from scratch. So one of the concept designers,
24:30
Alan Lee, he'd done a sketch of Orthang for the centenary book
24:33
edition of Lord of the Rings that showed part of the tower.
24:36
Jackson told him to finish the drawing and based on that
24:38
illustration where the workshop created a miniature of Orthang
24:41
which was 15 feet high with a 65 foot circular fortress towel was
24:47
carved and then cast in resin to create that black volcanic glass
24:50
of payments that it has and would film the model using
24:53
motion control filming. Amazing 33% resin.
25:00
I mean techniques that were already about 30 plus years old
25:02
by this point, but how good does it look?
25:05
It's ridiculous. Amazing.
25:07
It kind of look any better, that's how good it looks.
25:09
No, it couldn't. I mean, we'll talk more about
25:10
the practical effects work later, but there's a shot before
25:12
this we talked about when Goldman's being tortured, the
25:15
establishing shot, like, pans down this enormous scale model
25:18
of Baradur. Yeah, those miniature shots,
25:20
this Lord through the trilogy, they are breathtaking.
25:24
I've not seen anything like it anywhere else, I don't think.
25:26
Yeah, totally agree. Incredible.
25:28
The interior scenes in Orthang between Gandalf and Saruman were
25:31
filmed on a set. Ian McAllen said he'd never been
25:33
on a set like it before because it had been designed to be
25:36
really angular and sharp, to create a castle in a horror
25:39
movie kind of feel. And Christopher Lee said that
25:42
the steps of the Saruman's throne was so steep he had
25:44
trouble climbing. But to be fair, Christopher Lee,
25:47
be like, just like home. Yeah.
25:49
Probably, yeah. Yeah, I'm used to this.
25:52
Yeah, great set though, isn't it?
25:53
Oh. It's wonderful.
25:54
Yeah. So am I sitting really angular
25:56
and uncomfortable? No one stays too long.
26:00
No one stays too long. Just.
26:01
Slide out the door. And just after this we see Sarah
26:06
Man breeding the Urakai, which were a stronger type of hawk.
26:09
In the books talking suggests they are a cross breed of Orks
26:12
and men, but here we see them being bred and birthed in pods
26:16
beneath Isengarde and the Ork workers received beneath
26:18
Isengarde. They were all played by weather
26:20
workshop staff who did as. We'll discuss all the practical
26:23
effects on the film. Yeah.
26:25
Yeah, seeing them pull from the mud covered in that like
26:28
membrane substance, Great visuals.
26:30
Disgusting though. It's horrible, though.
26:32
Jackson's tapping right into his horror movie background there, I
26:34
think. He's loving it, that's his.
26:36
Favorite bit? Yeah, and I love it when Sarah
26:39
Man says to learn. It's the first to work.
26:40
I Whom do you serve? Saruman.
26:45
It is so great. So that's Gandalf and Starman
26:49
setting some wheels in motion. We've seen Isengard Wizards
26:52
fighting and Orokai breeding weirdly.
26:55
Yeah. Time to meet then as goal.
26:57
Let's do it. Or let's do it, yes?
27:01
After fleeing the Shire with the Ring, Frodo and Sam come across
27:04
Hobbiton's answer to the Likely Lads in Mario Dog, Brandy Book
27:07
and Peregrine Took. Well, glad yeah, that's them.
27:11
All scary. All the nine former kings of men
27:13
sent from Mordor to find the ring.
27:16
The Ringwraiths. Black Riders.
27:18
The Nazgal. Yeah.
27:20
From hiding in tree roots to the chaos of Buckleberry Ferry W 8.
27:24
How do these early Nazgal scenes work?
27:26
I mean, I love them. I absolutely love these guys.
27:28
They're just really still out for me.
27:30
But what I always think of is like they've been waiting around
27:32
for ages, like thousands of years.
27:34
Yeah, what they've been doing. They say playing cards or
27:37
something. Have we found that ring yet?
27:39
So we're go and get it or. What brothers hanging out, the
27:43
dying for this job and finally it happens and they're straight
27:46
out in the straight ready for it.
27:48
But that will get off the road sequence.
27:49
It's just so beautifully done cinematically because it's so
27:52
for Borden, you know, they use the vertical shot.
27:55
There's that Dolly zoom in there, which is absolutely
27:57
fantastic because you got the leaves kicked up at the bottom
28:00
and you know, something's not quite right.
28:01
Peter Jackson says, yeah, it's it's the Hitchcock shot.
28:04
Spielberg's used it a couple of times.
28:06
He's. Really kind of like pushing it
28:08
down. I can't remember where or what
28:10
film it was. I love the fact that you get the
28:14
Nasco hearing real close up and it's a real sticky kind of close
28:18
up. The Who fit in the ground, you
28:20
can smell them, like the authenticity on them is just
28:22
absolutely fantastic. And I really love the fact that
28:26
we're watching a composite because you've got the hobbits
28:28
at the bottom, ring wreath comes past the tree and it's just at
28:31
the top. You can tell that's 2 completely
28:32
different shots. And the beautiful thing about it
28:34
is I really don't care. Like that's just a terrifying.
28:38
But what I really like is the little details here and when the
28:41
ring wreath just grabs the tree trunk and all the insects start
28:44
coming out. Oh yeah, lovely touch.
28:46
Running away. And like Jackson was thinking
28:47
that might be confusing for people thinking that they're
28:49
kind of scared of it. But the way I took it was like
28:52
they were attracted to it. That's how I read it, yeah.
28:54
Lovely touch, a great introduction to these things,
28:57
these shadows that are chasing them and you just think the
28:59
hobbits have got absolutely no chance against these guys and I
29:03
love that. Something I don't really get
29:05
from this point in the film is that Frodo and Sam have already
29:08
gone a long way. They've slept in the woods
29:10
overnight. Yeah, and they just stumble
29:12
across Marion Pippen at Father Maggots Field like they're out
29:14
for a walk. What are they doing there?
29:16
Yeah, that's a good point, yeah. Yeah, but the Nazgul are so
29:20
cool. Yeah, great idea.
29:22
They look awesome. And their musical theme, that
29:24
choir, I love it. That first shot of the mid
29:28
Minnes mogul where the doors open.
29:30
Yeah. And they come galloping out in
29:31
all that green light. Is there a better shot than
29:33
that? There's a few, but it's just in
29:36
this film it only kind of betters itself.
29:38
It reminds me of the Grim Reaper from The Frighteners as well.
29:40
I think it's very. PHF Yeah, but the first time
29:42
they're in a proper meaty scene, it's probably this.
29:43
When Frodo's like get off the road.
29:46
A great little touch here as well.
29:47
They're under the tree and the Nazcale appears above them.
29:50
The first problem that we get at one really it walks from behind
29:53
the tree, but have you noticed that we don't see it walk past
29:55
the other side, It just kind of appears from out the tree.
29:58
All right, Yeah. Subtle, but just enough to say
30:00
these things are normal. Yeah.
30:02
Another nice bit of horror style filmmaking from Jackson, I
30:04
think. Yeah.
30:06
Yeah, and this scene where the hobbits hide under the tree from
30:08
the Ring race, that was actually filmed on the very first day of
30:11
shooting. And it was shot in the Parklands
30:13
in Mount Victoria and Wellington.
30:15
And wet air created the whole the hobbits hiding, but the path
30:17
in their legs, they were all real.
30:19
And they've since become a tourist destination of.
30:21
Course. Like everything else, first day
30:25
of filming and you're hiding from the race.
30:27
Straight in for Jackson Action Jackson.
30:31
The Nasgos high pitched screen was created by the sound
30:33
designers Phil Haywood and Simon Hewitt.
30:36
They recorded the Co writer and producer Fran Walsh performing
30:39
the scream and it was then edited digitally to make it
30:42
sound more unearthly. They then added sound of two
30:45
plastic party cups being rubbed together to complete it all,
30:48
which is insane. And I think Fran Walsh had a
30:50
cold at the time, which is why I thought it was all Gale of raspy
30:53
and they just kind of utilized that scream.
30:55
Fran. Yeah.
30:56
Well, yeah, it sounds great. Yeah.
30:58
And that little scene where the Nas goal asks that Hobbbit for
31:00
directions, you know, where he's, like, shy?
31:03
You're a baggage. Yeah, that voice is Andy Circus.
31:06
Of course it is OK, right? I hope they Gollum, of course,
31:10
yeah. You could be like, excuse me
31:11
mate. Yeah, I mean, we've been talking
31:16
about Jackson's horror roots and wear, the short and the scene at
31:19
the ferry. This, for me is the one that
31:21
Hawks back to Jackson being a horror director the most because
31:25
the music, the screeching that we've talked about from the
31:28
NASCAR, that incredible shot where you get that one just back
31:31
lit by the moonlight. Unbelievable.
31:33
Unbelievable shot. Get out.
31:35
Get out. Yeah.
31:36
Run as fast as you can. This is pure.
31:38
Horror. Make Sleepy Hollow look like a
31:40
fucking at you sketch. Absolutely does.
31:42
Yeah. And it's such a contrast to
31:44
everything we've seen before because the Shire was so bucolic
31:47
and warm and green. Yeah.
31:49
And it's this real stamp the film needs to reinforce.
31:51
And they are so far from home now and so far from safety with
31:55
these NASCAR on the heels. And I think it's a really great
31:57
character moment as well because they're all out of the depth.
32:00
Pippen doesn't have a clue what's going on.
32:02
He's just running away from something and he doesn't
32:04
understand why. But the rise to the occasion
32:07
here, which they continue to do throughout the whole trilogy,
32:09
which is the point of their characters throughout, and Mary
32:12
in particular, he works out that day after Frodo the Nascal, and
32:16
as soon as Frodo says he needs to leave the child, he doesn't
32:19
hesitate. It's right.
32:20
It's this way to the ferry. He doesn't go.
32:22
Well, they're after you, not me, mate.
32:24
See you. I'm going back to former Maggots
32:25
field. So it's really important moment
32:28
in binding these four together and showing that, you know
32:30
there's more to come from them. The way the Nazgul comes
32:33
crashing out the fog on his horse.
32:35
Terrifying that. Yeah.
32:36
And I've heard people say it's a bit of a plot hole that the
32:38
Nazgul stops on the pier when the ferry's like, 2 feet in
32:41
front of it or something. Like, why doesn't it just jump,
32:43
Right? But it's not because the Nazgul
32:44
don't like the water. Yeah, we'll see that in a later
32:46
scene, don't we? Yeah.
32:47
Yeah, We thought. Which we'll talk about,
32:49
obviously. And crossing the Brandywine
32:51
River is the point at which the hobbits officially leave the
32:54
Shire And the Buckleberry ferry scenes.
32:56
They were shot at Keeling Farm near Manakow.
32:59
The whole area was stressed and Rick to create the river
33:01
crossing. And in one take, Elijah Wood
33:03
actually overshot his Trump and ended up in the river instead of
33:06
on the ferry. Nice.
33:07
He leapt over the ferry. Yeah.
33:09
Carl Lewis. It's a big job, though.
33:13
But I do like that the nods go literally chase the hobbits
33:16
across the border out of the Shire.
33:17
Like out of their home. Yeah.
33:19
Yeah. And that is the beginning of the
33:21
beginning of the trilogy, the epic prologue, the journey out
33:24
of the Shire. And from birthday parties to
33:26
black writers trying to talk about the mad man orchestrating
33:30
the madness, surely. Let's do it.
33:32
Yep, the director. The director of The Fellowship
33:41
of the Ring was Peter Jackson. This was technically his 7th
33:44
feature film after making his name with horror comedies like
33:47
Bad Tears, Meet the Feebles and Brain Dead, then showing some
33:50
more dramatic chops with Heavenly Creatures.
33:52
Yeah, and a bigger budget film with The Frighteners.
33:56
Jackson was the man who did what Hollywood said was impossible,
33:58
bringing Torquay into the big screen.
34:00
Yeah, a slight leap from splatter comedy to Middle Earth,
34:03
Matt. Yeah, but how was Peter
34:05
Jackson's work here as director? I mean, it's arguably the most
34:09
monumental production anyone's ever undertaken.
34:12
And when we talk about huge ambition like that, quite often
34:15
the person behind it is someone like James Cameron, an absolute
34:19
tyrant in madman who will kill people to achieve his vision.
34:23
But then you've got Peter Jackson, just the most amiable,
34:25
easy going person to work with. The absolute sweetheart of a
34:29
man. Well, I think you read
34:31
interviews with the cast and crew and the running joke is we
34:34
think he is an actual Hobbit because he looks like 1 and he
34:37
is like 1. And yet he's got this huge
34:39
production. But also there'll be a lot of
34:42
questions here in this production.
34:44
And you know, for fact, Jackson had an answer for every single
34:47
question that was raised. And he's one who's seen this as
34:50
a trilogy and playing the long game.
34:51
Like, other directors would have rushed through The Hobbit in
34:54
sequence and got the L1's counsel at the 30 minute mark.
34:58
But Jackson knows you've got to spend time here in Hobbiton for
35:01
the entrant work. Because when the hobbits return
35:03
in Return of the King, the point is Hobbiton hasn't changed 1
35:06
little bit, but they have. And as we said, this is the
35:09
place that keeps Fordo and Sam alive on Mount Doom at the end,
35:12
because the dream of it is what they hold on to right at the
35:15
end. And that does not work unless
35:17
Jackson has the confidence to keep all of that opening in
35:20
Hobbiton at the beginning and keep us there.
35:23
And that's just one decision of thousands that he gets right.
35:26
Yeah. Yeah, it's a monumental
35:28
production, like I said, and he just nails it somehow.
35:31
Yeah. I mean, where on Earth, where on
35:32
Middle Earth do you start with Pierre Jackson's work?
35:35
Yeah, Yeah, he's exactly everywhere.
35:37
It's like one of those Looney Tunes cartoons where they're
35:39
playing American football in Daffy Ducks in, like, every
35:42
position. I mean, as a piece of direction.
35:45
It's not Kubrick or Scorsese. Is he, like, stroking your chain
35:48
and pondering which shot will represent the theme of the film
35:50
best? There is an element of that.
35:51
To be fair, I was. Going to say that kind of is.
35:54
But with the sizes, production, this is intense getting their
35:58
graft as well. Sleeves up, shorts on for
36:00
Jackson, wild hair, beard get stuck in.
36:04
He's on the set filming scenes. He's in the design studios
36:06
reviewing everything. He's working with huge costume
36:09
teams, production teams, makeup departments, scores of
36:12
musicians, effects people, camera crews, others as well.
36:15
And he's all over it. His passion for what he's doing
36:18
is like the fires of Mount Doom just took the ring into PR
36:21
Jackson. Job done.
36:23
Yeah. Yeah.
36:23
But I mean, leadership and corralling of everybody
36:26
throughout this epic shoot is ridiculous.
36:29
There was somehow few major production problems and somehow
36:32
it does still feel personal to Jackson.
36:35
This isn't a hired gun being told.
36:36
Just get it on the screen like studio or tentpole sometimes
36:39
feel like this is Peter Jackson's film through and
36:41
through. The look for the material, the
36:43
vision, the attention, the detail, it's all there from the
36:46
start. Like I say, maybe not the
36:48
greatest ever piece of artistic filmmaking, but this has got to
36:51
be one of the most extraordinary pieces of big scale direction
36:54
we've ever seen. Yeah, genuinely astonishing
36:57
stuff from PGA for me. You just have that knighthood.
37:00
Yeah. And then so.
37:01
Yeah, I mean, I think the thing I'm focusing on here is the
37:04
level of control. Without that level of fear.
37:07
There's a control through love, I think, and that comes across
37:10
in the film. I think that's where the the
37:12
heart of all this is, because there's a genuine care between
37:16
all of the actors. There's a genuine care between
37:18
whoever's making the shoelaces for the orcs.
37:21
At some point, you know that everyone kind of cares and
37:24
everyone's bringing their absolute A game to it.
37:26
And he really does bring that out in people.
37:28
And I think Jackson's look on this is that everything you see
37:32
in this film, everything on the screen is important.
37:34
It has a place, it has a history, it has a time, it has a
37:37
reason to exist. There's nothing here with any
37:40
fat on it whatsoever. In the extended editions we're
37:42
pushing 4 hours nearly and it's still a breeze to get through
37:46
because everything's just so different from seeing the scene
37:49
from character to character. The motivations are there, he
37:52
just doesn't seem like he's tired.
37:54
I don't believe he's a human being.
37:57
I just can't fathom just even building Hobbit in a year before
38:01
and just overseeing that freaks me out.
38:03
Yeah, just that one must be exhausting.
38:05
And it's the first, what, 10 minutes?
38:07
Yeah, exactly. It's ludicrous.
38:09
And as well, it's the amount of other directors that are on this
38:12
whole thing, you know, the second units, the third units,
38:15
the stunt units. And it's just incredible the
38:18
scale and the consistency within that scale.
38:20
I mean, there's films that are 1% this budget, 1% the time
38:25
that's been put on this and they're all over the place.
38:28
This is unbelievable and just what an achievement this is and
38:34
for anyone to say anything bad about it, I think it's
38:37
impossible to do. It's impossible to look down on
38:39
this. If you love cinema, it's a
38:40
marvel. It's just a marvel, and he is a
38:43
marvel for doing it. Yeah, yeah.
38:44
I think as soon as you look into what kind of involved behind it,
38:47
it's impossible not to be impressed with Jackson.
38:50
Yeah, it absolutely is. Just the amount of control that
38:52
he's got over it. But at the same time, he seems
38:54
like such an approachable guy. Yeah, so the first published
38:58
work set in Middle Earth was The Hobbit.
39:00
That was released in 1937, and The Lord of the Rings came along
39:03
in 1954 and 55. Yeah.
39:05
And long before Peter Jackson. Hollywood have been looking to
39:08
adapt them, Yes. So I think A Brief History of
39:11
Middle Earth on Film might be helpful.
39:12
Yeah, go for it. Couldn't get Kane Blatchet
39:14
incinerated, unfortunately, but next best thing we've got Matt.
39:18
Yeah. Obviously a slightly softer
39:20
tone. We've gone for silky vox.
39:24
Go for it, man. So Disney were interested in
39:28
doing animated versions of The Hobbit in the 30s and then Lord
39:31
of the Rings in the 50s, but neither went anywhere.
39:34
Walt Disney said Tolkien's work was too serious and too violent,
39:37
and Tolkien said he had a heartfelt loathing for Disney
39:41
films. Nice.
39:43
PL. Travers.
39:46
Yeah, not a great combo for working together then, is it?
39:49
Not really. And there were others interested
39:51
in doing animated adaptations in the 50s and 60s.
39:54
A producer called Al Brodaks tried to get the rights.
39:58
A science fiction magazine editor called Forrest J Ackman
40:01
had a treatment produced which Tolkien didn't like.
40:03
And then in 1967, Rembrandt Films produced a 12 minute
40:07
animation of The Hobbit. So that Rembrandt animation,
40:10
that was the first time Tolkien's work was ever on
40:12
screen. So it's significant, but also
40:15
I've seen it and it's not great. No, you have to be careful
40:18
seeing Rembrandt animation as well, that people can be very
40:20
confused about that, Yeah. It's very primary school.
40:24
Yeah, and Al Rod actually mentioned there, he was the
40:26
producer of Yellow Submarine Beatles film.
40:29
Yeah, yeah. Well, Speaking of The Beatles
40:32
then in 1969 United Artists bought the rights Lord of Rings
40:35
and wanted to make a film star in The Beatles as the four
40:38
Hobbits. Twiggy is Gladriol and it would
40:40
be directed by Stanley Kubrick. In the same, Kubrick said.
40:44
It was unfilmable. Yeah, yeah, apparently John
40:46
Lennon wanted to play Gollum, right?
40:49
But I mean, that's the year after 2001 came out.
40:51
So if Kubrick says you can't film it, it must be true.
40:54
Well, it must be. I think it's more content than
40:56
it is anything else. I would imagine John Lennon is
40:58
Gollum. Like imagine.
41:00
Just imagine. British director John Borman was
41:03
then brought in by UA to direct and he wanted Al Pacino was
41:07
Frodo, and in Borman's script Saran is described as looking
41:10
like Mick Jagger and also in this version, Frodo.
41:13
He's a bit of a player and he had sex with Gladrio.
41:16
Nice. Yeah, fair enough.
41:18
Saran would have been having sex with everyone if he would like
41:20
Jagger. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
41:21
Lord of the G Strings. I mean, that sounds insane and I
41:25
would love to see all of it. Yeah, Chino, who on all over the
41:28
Shire. I'd like to see the trail as I
41:31
don't think I could sit through the whole films.
41:33
And then moving on from that producer Salt Sandsport the
41:35
rights from UA and produced The Hobbit as an animation in 1977.
41:39
They then made probably the second most famous adaptation of
41:42
Lord of the Rings, the Ralph Bakshi animations, in 1978.
41:46
Yeah. And they terrified me as a kid.
41:49
Yeah, I remember them. There's a not to Bakshi's
41:51
animations in Fellowship as well.
41:53
You know the moment at Billbo's party where he's naming Hobbit
41:55
families and he says proud foots and one guy shouts proud feet.
41:59
That shot with his feet in the foreground is exactly the same
42:02
as the same moment in the Ralph Bakshi film.
42:04
Right, OK. Yeah, little homage, I think.
42:06
And then in the 80s George Lucas tried to get the rights to The
42:09
Hobbit, obviously, reportedly for Spielberg to direct even
42:12
more obviously, but because of all the previous adaptations or
42:16
the rights were a bit entangled and sitting with various
42:18
companies saw Lucas made Willow with Ron Howard instead.
42:23
Right, I want to do The Hobbit, but if not, I'll just do Willow.
42:26
It's the same thing. It's the same film.
42:27
Small people. Yeah, yeah.
42:29
Things then went quiet until Peter Jackson came along, who
42:32
did the as we know it The Lord of the Rings trilogy in the
42:34
early 2000s, and then followed those up with The Hobbit trilogy
42:37
10 years later. He did.
42:39
I'm Speaking of Kubik, actually. Do you think The Eye of Saron
42:42
Jackson was taking some inspiration from Hal in 2001
42:45
maybe? Yeah, yeah.
42:46
How? Yeah, very possibly.
42:47
You can say that, yeah. Not quite as polite, Saron, is
42:50
he? Not really.
42:51
No, stop singing, Daisy. Peter Jackson first became aware
42:55
of Lord of the Rings when he saw, like we've said, the Ralph
42:57
Bashki animation at the cinema when he was 17.
43:00
He read the book and wanted to see a live action version of it.
43:02
He forgot about it until 1996 when he made The Frighteners.
43:06
To make that film, Jackson had to expand his effects studio,
43:08
Wetter Digital, to handle all the CGI.
43:11
After The Frighteners, Jackson needed a big project to keep
43:13
Wetter going and thought about Lord of the Rings.
43:16
Well, yeah, I think his first thought was that Lord of the
43:18
Rings would be unattainable. So he came up with an idea of
43:20
his own for a fantasy film that was apparently about an upside
43:24
down medieval town. And it was called Blubber Head,
43:28
which sounds like the most Peter Jackson film in the world.
43:31
Yeah, I'd rather see that. So then by the midnight he's
43:37
Jackson and his Co writer and wife Fran Walsh were fully going
43:40
after Lord of the Rings. Jackson spoke to Saul Sans about
43:43
buying the rights from him and he wanted to make The Hobbit
43:45
first, but the rights were split between Sans and US so he
43:48
couldn't get them. Right.
43:50
Yeah, the same issue George has had.
43:51
The rights were all over the place.
43:53
Jackson didn't just get Willow 2 in there, thankfully.
43:58
But Jackson had a first look deal with Miramax because they
44:01
had produced Heavy Creatures, so he was obliged to go to Harvey
44:04
Weinstein. Unfortunately, about making Lord
44:06
of the Rings, Weinstein was interested in, Miramax spent $14
44:10
million developing the project, but couldn't get funded for
44:12
three films, so told Jackson he had to make the whole trilogy in
44:16
1/2 hour film, which Jackson said just impossible.
44:20
Yeah. Yeah, apparently, Weinstein said
44:22
if Jackson didn't agree to do it in one film, he would hire
44:25
Quentin Tarantino instead. Frodo carrying the ring round in
44:31
a briefcase. We happy.
44:34
Yeah, we happy. Shot of Hobbit's feet.
44:37
Too many. Too many.
44:39
Yeah. That would be absolutely
44:40
disgusting. Yeah.
44:42
Yeah, apparently Weinstein thought the Miramax owned the
44:44
rights to all the work Jackson had done to that point.
44:46
But they didn't. Jackson did, right?
44:48
So Miramax had to pull out basically.
44:51
But mean Peter Jackson, not Samuel L Jackson, right?
44:53
Yeah, Jackson. The ring rates coming out, we
44:56
should have shotguns. Jackson then put together a 35
45:02
minute pitch video and not showed everything they've done
45:04
up to that point. He sent it to studios asking for
45:07
funding to make 2 films as he thought nobody would want to
45:09
make three. Yeah, 20th Century Fox,
45:12
Universal and Sony all passing. They just didn't like the
45:15
script. Right.
45:16
Yeah. Also, apparently this time
45:17
somebody in Jackson still doesn't know who, I don't think,
45:20
leaked the script that he was sending around under the
45:22
Internet. Right.
45:23
Which is outrageous. But he said this might have
45:24
actually helped because it got the word out there much more
45:27
that someone was trying to make a Lord of the Rings film.
45:29
OK, Yeah. So Jackson had one final chance
45:32
at this point. A friend of his, Mark Odeski,
45:35
worked at New Line Cinema and they were mostly known for
45:37
horror. So through Odeski, Jackson got a
45:40
pitch with the head of New Line, Robert Shea, and at the end of
45:42
the pitch, Shea had just one question for him.
45:45
There were three books. Shouldn't be 3 films?
45:48
Yeah, I read the video with Mark Odessi, and he said that when
45:50
Shay said that Jackson just sat there, he was so stunned.
45:54
Yeah, I bet. And Odessi started kicking him
45:55
under the table, just getting to say something.
45:58
And Jackson just went, sorry. Say that again.
46:01
Right. Good for him.
46:02
He did it. Yeah.
46:03
It's. Amazing.
46:04
Well, Shay's reason and was why would anyone want movie Goes to
46:08
pay $18.00 when they might pay $27.00 obviously.
46:11
Nice. Studio head, yeah.
46:12
Exactly so. New Line greenlit a $281,000,000
46:17
production budget to make all three films.
46:20
Yeah, it was a tentative green light though.
46:21
Apparently we're not official because of one that retains some
46:24
control of our pre production decisions, Right.
46:26
I guess because Jackson was so unproven to doing this kind of
46:28
thing. To be honest, I think any film
46:30
maker would be really, except maybe Cameron or Spielberg.
46:33
Yeah. Jackson wanted to film all three
46:35
films back-to-back in New Zealand as he knew it had the
46:38
locations needed for Middle Earth.
46:40
New Line were fine with New Zealand but wanted to make one
46:42
film at a time, Jackson said. They had to do all three at once
46:46
as it would require building huge sets, he said.
46:48
The New Zealand government won't allow us to keep all of that up
46:51
between films and New Line. Agreed.
46:53
I still kind of can't believe they did, to be honest.
46:56
I. Can't either.
46:58
It was such a risk, not just on producing all three films before
47:00
the 1st ones being a success, but risking it all on Pierre
47:03
Jackson. Yes, mad professor, low budget
47:06
horror guy. Let's get him in, yeah?
47:08
Let's go back and watching Bad Taste just signed the contrast
47:13
and they're just, what have we done?
47:14
It just took him three years. But New Zealand, what a choice
47:20
of location. I mean, personal.
47:22
The Jackson obviously is from there, but it looks perfect.
47:25
It's kind of became part of the identity of the film, isn't it?
47:27
Yeah, absolutely. Oh it.
47:28
Really has, yeah. There can't be many films so
47:30
linked with where it was shot. I think everyone seems to know
47:32
Lord of the Rings were filmed in New Zealand.
47:34
Yeah, if you go to New Zealand now, you just think you're going
47:36
to the Lord of the Rings thing and yeah, that's why you're
47:38
going, yeah. So pre production for the three
47:41
films started in 1997, two years before filming, and the
47:45
back-to-back to back shoot of the three films in New Zealand
47:48
lasted 15 months. It was 438 days of principal
47:52
photography, 9 units filmed simultaneously, 150 different
47:56
locations and 2400 crew members. And it's been estimated that 50
48:01
million man hours went into making the whole trilogy, which
48:04
works out at 25,000 years in. Jackson said he went through the
48:09
whole shoot on three to four hours of sleep a day.
48:12
Wow. Bloody hell, Francis Ford
48:14
cobbler. Yeah, not as much cocaine,
48:17
probably. Probably not.
48:19
Dead After was but literally one of the biggest and most
48:22
ambitious productions ever. Surely.
48:25
Yeah. I mean, for Jackson as a film
48:26
maker as well. What an opportunity.
48:28
Yeah. This iconic property which
48:29
hasn't been made as live action. So he's the first.
48:32
Yeah. That must have been so exciting.
48:33
Yeah. Like a kid in a sweet job for
48:35
25,000 years. Well, for his work on The
48:38
Fellowship of the Ring, Peter Jackson was nominated for best
48:40
director of the Oscars, and the film was nominated for best
48:43
picture and lost out on both to the same film.
48:45
Do you remember what? Go on, Matt.
48:47
Beautiful Mind. Ron Howard.
48:49
Ron Howard strikes again. He.
48:50
Does not. To the front, Howard one for
48:53
Willow. Really rubbing it in.
48:58
No major Oscar wins for Jackson on Fellowship.
49:00
You'd have to wait a little bit for that.
49:02
But for us, in having the vision, getting it green lit,
49:05
then making the whole trilogy back-to-back, this is a pretty
49:08
extraordinary direction from Peter Jackson.
49:10
It's phenomenal. He would have been sitting at
49:11
the Oscars going, yeah, you don't like it?
49:12
Yeah, but your kids are going to.
49:18
Love it the cast. Peter Jackson was firing on all
49:24
cylinders as director of The Fellowship of the Ring, but what
49:26
about those in front of the camera?
49:28
There was a huge ensemble cast on the film, and as we've said,
49:32
the whole story is told across all three Lord of the Rings
49:34
episodes. As such, for the cast right now
49:37
we're focusing on three of the main players.
49:39
Yeah, that's Ian McKellen as Gandalf and Viggo Mortensen as
49:42
Aragorn. We're starting with the ring
49:44
bearer himself though. We are, yeah.
49:47
So Elijah Wood plays Frodo Baggins, a young Hobbit who
49:50
inherits the One Ring from his uncle Bilbo.
49:53
Frodo undertakes the quest to destroy it in the fires of Mount
49:55
Doom. We follow Frodo's journey from
49:57
leaving the Shire to entering the Fellowship, to breaking from
50:00
the Fellowship at the film's end to continue alone with Sam.
50:04
Yeah, yes. He's got the weight of Middle
50:06
Earth on his shoulders, Matt. He certainly does.
50:07
Around his neck, anyway. Yeah, but how is Elijah Wood as
50:11
Frodo? I think he does a really
50:13
underrated job because the point of Frodo is he's such an
50:16
innocent character, and I think for an actor, a lot of times
50:19
playing innocence just probably isn't that interesting to play
50:22
and put on screen. You want the ambiguity, you want
50:25
the moral complexity of Aragon, and you don't get that referred
50:28
or that opening when you see him just relaxing under the tree.
50:31
You think like all the hobbits, he's just dictated heart.
50:34
So I think credit to Wood for really embracing that part of
50:37
the character and embracing the seriousness and the earnestness
50:41
or fraud or because he could be very wishy washy and a bit dull,
50:44
but I don't think he is. And The thing is, would like
50:47
everyone, he's looking beyond fellowship, going all the way to
50:50
return the king and realized, well, actually the really
50:52
interesting stuff is at the end when you see how much suffering
50:55
he's going through to finally get rid of the ring.
50:57
None of that will work unless he does the hard work here to set
51:00
him up as such an innocent character like Peter Jackson.
51:03
He's playing the long game, really leans into the innocence,
51:06
really makes it work because he's got the media stuff to play
51:09
with in the next two films. And that only works if you say
51:12
Frodo is out of his depth, as he say.
51:14
Yeah, I think what's really great.
51:16
Yeah, I like, I like. I would.
51:18
I still think of him as North as much as Frodo.
51:21
Remember that. All right, Yeah.
51:24
Yeah, but I mean, he is well cast as Frodo.
51:26
He's got a nice, likable presence, which works well, and
51:29
he looks pretty perfect. He's got a bit of an elvish kind
51:31
of look about him, I think. So he fits into the world.
51:34
And Jackson makes the most of those Big Blue eyes, doesn't he?
51:37
The cameras all over them, all the way through the trilogy.
51:40
Loves those eyes, yeah. I mean, the thing about Frodo is
51:42
he's the main protagonist, so needs to be someone that we'll
51:45
root for and we'll have to root for him really quickly.
51:48
There's so much going on. Jackson hasn't got time spending
51:51
30 minutes of us getting to know him.
51:53
And what does bring that quality?
51:54
I think he's not overly heroic or larger than life, but does
51:57
bring like an every man kind of quality.
51:59
And he's got a lot to do, dramatic dialogue scenes, big
52:02
action scenes. Not in this film, but later on
52:05
he's doing a lot of acting with a CGI character.
52:07
Yeah, no spoilers. Who that is?
52:10
I mean, he's the lead in this production, which is beyond
52:13
massive. And he was only 18 when they
52:15
started filming under pressure of carrying a huge production of
52:18
a huge series of novels. He could have been swallowed up
52:21
by it. Yeah, but I think he carries it
52:23
well. I mean, what I call it an
52:25
incredible acting performance. Probably not.
52:27
There's other cast members who I think are better actors.
52:30
But as a young actor leading this crazy project and being the
52:33
focal character, the film bearer, if you will.
52:36
Yeah. Really good stuff from Elijah
52:37
Wood I think. Yeah.
52:39
I mean, it's very, very similar. He's he's fantastic and it
52:42
absolutely leads it. And you need somebody with that
52:44
level of innocence that you guys have spoken about and it makes
52:47
the character really accessible and really personable and you
52:51
kind of want to root for this guy.
52:52
It's so close to being annoying on.
52:55
The page. This character could have been a
52:56
real pain and if there was annoying and it was just a
52:59
little bit weak and flattered and just because he kind of
53:02
plays it that way a little bit. But there's still a strength and
53:04
a resilience behind there. But he doesn't know what
53:06
strength and resilience is. It's not the best acting
53:09
performance, but I think it's the best fraud or performance
53:12
anyone could have ever done. Yeah.
53:13
And I think he knows where the boundaries are with that.
53:16
And the astonishing thing is, and we'll talk about this with
53:18
all of the actors, I think, who were involved in this whole
53:20
production. But with this being shot out of
53:22
sequence, the fact that he's arc works so well.
53:26
Yeah. The fact that he has.
53:27
Right. Oh, you're innocent now.
53:28
All right. You've just been bitten by
53:29
Sheilab now. It must have been not all the
53:31
way through. Yeah, you're with Golem now, all
53:32
right? You don't like Sam anymore?
53:35
Yeah, wears his head ass. Yeah.
53:37
The fact that this looks like it's been shot in sequence, it
53:39
looks like it's been shot chronologically, it kind of
53:42
makes total sense. And it's absolute credit to
53:44
Elijah Wood because I think he's front and centre in mostly all
53:48
of the scenes and he's kind of leading it and everyone is
53:50
looking to him. And even at the at the end of
53:52
Return of the King, I will go and turn to almost to the camera
53:55
and says for Frodo, because it's always in the back of
53:57
everybody's mind, he is the one who's leading this journey.
54:00
Without him, it will not work. And that's a hell of a thing to
54:03
carry. But he does it so well.
54:04
It's like you said, John, it is just the personification of
54:07
carrying the ring. That's the role that he plays as
54:10
a human being, as an actor. He carries the film and he does
54:12
it really, really well. He absolutely does.
54:15
I agree. And Jackson left N stone
54:17
unturned in the search for Frodo.
54:19
He auditioned about 200 actors in London for the part,
54:22
including Jake Gyllenhaal. And Gyllenhaal said that he went
54:25
the audition and thought he was prepared for it.
54:27
But afterwards, Peter Jackson said, you do realize he's
54:30
supposed to do this in a British accent?
54:32
Oh dear. Yeah, exactly.
54:34
His agent just hadn't told him that and therefore he didn't get
54:36
the part. Right.
54:37
Yeah, he said that when the agent got Jacksons feedback,
54:39
they were told he's the worst actor I've ever seen.
54:45
Brutal. Ouch.
54:46
But yeah, if you don't read the brief, it doesn't look great.
54:49
No. Elijah Wood was filmed the
54:51
faculty at the time. Great film Rodriguez.
54:53
Check that out if you haven't seen that.
54:54
The custom call for Frodo went out and he heard about it from a
54:57
film critic called Harry Knowles, who's from any cool
55:00
news, I think. Any cool news?
55:01
Yeah. Great site that was like the go
55:03
to at the time. It was back then, yeah.
55:05
And Wood made an audition tape where he dresses Frodo in
55:07
breeches in a flowing shirt. He read directly from the
55:10
original books and shot 3 scenes shown fraud with various points
55:13
in the journey. He had the video of FedEx
55:15
directly to Jackson and Jackson called him about a month later
55:18
offer him the part and he said Elijah cast himself.
55:21
Wow, brilliant. Apparently that call wasn't very
55:23
good because all Jackson could hear was Wood sister screaming
55:26
in the background because she knew we had the part.
55:29
All right. Yeah, amazing.
55:30
He was the first actor I cast Elijah Wood.
55:32
Oh wow, right. And Jackson said that as soon as
55:34
that video came in, for the first time in like 200 auditions
55:37
or whatever, he felt like he was looking at Frodo.
55:39
Lovely. Brilliant.
55:41
That's how it's done. Take a bull by the horns, guys.
55:43
If you want something, go and get.
55:44
It absolutely totally agree. Yeah, and Jackson said there was
55:48
a nerve for six weeks before filming started where the cast
55:50
met for the first time and he had to just hope that they got
55:53
on, especially the Hobbbit's, because he wanted them to bond
55:56
like the characters. Fortunately, they ended up
55:59
getting on famously. And Wood said the memories he
56:01
treasures most the downtime between takes, where The Hobbit
56:04
actors would spend time in each other's trailers watching films
56:07
together. Nice.
56:09
Yeah, Wood said the first time that he met Sean Astin was in a
56:11
hotel lobby. They didn't know each other at
56:13
all, and as soon as they saw each other, they ran across the
56:15
room and hooked. Nice.
56:17
Yeah, some crazy things going on with this film.
56:22
It's just a real portal of joy, isn't it?
56:24
It's just so much happiness and heart and love involved in all
56:26
of this. It just makes us so happy.
56:28
It's a wonderful thing. It's a beautiful thing.
56:30
Yeah. Well, for his performance as
56:32
Frodo, Elijah Wood wasn't nominated for any major awards.
56:34
But I don't think that really matters in carrying one of the
56:37
biggest film productions ever. He had his place in Hollywood
56:41
and for us, we like him a lot in the role.
56:43
Yeah, he's great. Absolutely.
56:44
In the role, out of the role, Sweet man Perfect Castle was
56:48
wonderful stuff. Moving on from the lead, we're
56:52
now discussing Frodo's mentor in Gandalf the Grey, played by Ian
56:56
McKellen. Yeah, the wizard who sets the
56:58
whole quest in motion. We see Gandalf's arrival in the
57:01
Shire through leading the Fellowship to his death of sorts
57:04
when he fends off the Balrog in the minds of Moria, Yeah, he's
57:08
the wielder of the flame of an oar, whatever that means, Matt.
57:11
Yep. So how does Ian McKellen do as
57:14
Gandalf? I feel like he's the glue that's
57:17
holding all the other performances together.
57:19
Because they meet the hobbits and they're childish and a
57:22
little bit trivial at first. You think, and that's fine
57:24
because that works for them. But you need someone to make
57:27
this world feel grounded. And I think that's what McKellen
57:29
brings, because this character, he could be really lightweight
57:32
because he arrives and it's all jokes and it's fireworks.
57:35
He's making the kids laugh, but he's the one that realises
57:38
something's not right and he knows what that ring is, where
57:41
it came from, and there's serious consequences now which
57:44
have to be dealt with. And he spins all that on a dime
57:47
where all the stuff where like, say he's entertaining the kids,
57:50
all that stuff disappears. And it's like now there's an
57:53
adult in charge. And I think that's why we feel
57:55
that loss when he falls to his doom at the time in Casa Doom,
57:59
because we think, well, we're lost without him.
58:02
And because without him, this group is going to fall.
58:04
And ultimately they do the splinter because he's not there
58:07
to bind them together after that moment.
58:09
And that's why his eventual return in The Two Towers feel so
58:12
important. And then that journey from this
58:15
slightly bumbling, Silly Wizard at the start to take in charge
58:19
of the defence of Minis Tereth in Return of the King charging
58:22
out into battle. Brilliantly convincing.
58:25
And it's all because of McAllen. And he really grounds all the
58:28
material here. And I think everyone kind of
58:30
follows suit. Yeah, I think it's one of the
58:33
most popular performances in the film.
58:35
Ian McKellen. I think so, yeah.
58:36
Again, he looks the part really suits the grey robe with the
58:39
pointy hat and the huge beard, your classic wizard attire.
58:43
Yeah. And he looks good smoking a huge
58:45
pipe, which is essential, obviously.
58:46
Yeah, obviously. And as a character, Gandalf is
58:49
the mentor figure, like a definitive mentor figure as
58:51
well. George Lucas basically went,
58:53
thanks very much, change the name to Obi Wan Kenobi and went
58:56
right, that's not sorted then. Yeah, that'll do me.
58:59
So a classic octave from Talking and that does a lot of the work.
59:02
But McKellen clearly brings stuff as well.
59:04
Yeah, he's usually got a twinkle in his eye and he brings some
59:07
humour to it, I think. Yeah, he does, yeah.
59:09
And he has to go between that and being the assertive kind of
59:11
leader he is as well. And he's a bad tempered sword,
59:14
isn't he, Gandalf? He hears it.
59:16
Yeah. Yeah.
59:16
He hates Pippen, He. Really hates him with.
59:20
Me calls him full overtook. One of my favorite moments comes
59:23
in the first actor after the party at back end when
59:25
billboards getting angry, saying wants to keep the ring.
59:28
Gandalf's really patient, but then he erupts like Bilbo
59:31
Baggins. Yeah, but then he suffers
59:33
immediately and goes, I'm trying to help you.
59:35
It's really good. Yeah.
59:37
So Gandalf command respects but also has some vulnerability, I
59:40
think, which adds depth to the character.
59:41
You might not always get. Yeah, but yeah, I think McKellen
59:44
bring his gravitas and power to the role, but still stays human.
59:48
So really good casting. Again, probably one of the
59:51
definitive performances in the trilogy and I think certainly
59:53
the most defend the performance of Ian Mckellen's career.
59:56
Oh yeah. He completely owns this part.
59:58
Yeah, if you think of the part he's played before, like big
1:00:00
franchises, you don't turn around and go, I would need Ian
1:00:03
McAllen to be Magneto. No, it's almost forgettable that
1:00:06
he was, in a strange way. It's been overshadowed by this,
1:00:09
I think. Hasn't.
1:00:10
It yeah. Oh, definitely.
1:00:11
But I think even at that point, it wasn't as impactful as this
1:00:13
is. I think this is just a perfect
1:00:15
rule for him. He's just an elder that you
1:00:17
trust. He's like a perfect granddad
1:00:20
because he's like, if you get on the wrong side of him, he'll
1:00:22
absolutely lamb you all over. But at the same time, you just
1:00:24
want to hook him and just be like, I'm sorry.
1:00:26
Yeah. OK.
1:00:28
So he's got that command over everybody in that respect, I
1:00:31
think from everybody. And I think that's just Ian
1:00:34
McKellen has that respect from anybody anyway.
1:00:36
Yeah. And you can see that the cast
1:00:38
really do respect him as an actor and as a performer.
1:00:42
It does kind of come across on the screen somehow doesn't.
1:00:44
It definitely, yeah. There's this real kind of like
1:00:46
I'm in his presence. Like even with Christopher Lee,
1:00:48
you would expect him to be small in that, but he's not.
1:00:51
He just completely matches it and brings this wonderful
1:00:54
theatrical nature to it. His stage presence is absolutely
1:00:58
evident throughout the whole film.
1:00:59
I don't think this at all as a cinematic performance.
1:01:01
I think this is like a theatre performance where he's using the
1:01:04
scenery and he's using the props.
1:01:06
He's engulfed in it. He becomes Gandalf the Grey,
1:01:09
believable. Then he becomes Gandalf the
1:01:12
White, which is totally believable.
1:01:14
Then you watch that switch between the two of them and you
1:01:16
would have been acting between them.
1:01:17
Two parts, but the ethereal nature of when he kind of
1:01:20
becomes Gandalf the White is just again, like a different
1:01:22
actor. It's a completely different
1:01:24
performance. That little moment with Ian
1:01:26
Holmes is just is just wonderful.
1:01:27
And the moments with Elijah, what a wonderful.
1:01:29
And the moments with Igor, Morton said, oh, wonderful.
1:01:31
He's just great at having this grandeur and then zooming in and
1:01:35
making it really personal. He's fantastic.
1:01:37
I wish he was my best friend. I don't think I'd have many
1:01:41
problems if he and McCallum was my best friend.
1:01:44
Absolutely not. Originally, New Line wondered
1:01:46
Sean Connery to play Gandalf, so Jackson sent the scripts to
1:01:50
Connery's home in the Bahamas. Connery declined, though, and
1:01:53
later said. I read the book, I read the
1:01:55
script, I saw the movie. I still don't understand it.
1:01:58
Amazing. And he was apparently offered a
1:02:01
$6 million salary plus 15% of the total gross.
1:02:05
Oh wow, and. Much more that.
1:02:07
Would have been Damon turning down avatars.
1:02:09
Yeah. Yeah.
1:02:11
Yeah, I mean, don't send him the scripts, send him the pictures
1:02:14
of the New Zealand golf courses. He'd be there in his shot.
1:02:17
He'd be. Straight.
1:02:18
He'd be there on his jetpack. Yeah, I wish.
1:02:22
It arrives precisely when he means to.
1:02:25
OK pal, what's with the Maharsh guy?
1:02:27
The sermon. This is the org saying you're no
1:02:31
good member of a stinking race. But yeah, apparently if you'd
1:02:36
said yes, he would have made about $450 million from the
1:02:39
three films. Yeah.
1:02:41
He didn't need it though, let's be honest.
1:02:43
It's your gunnery. I'm sure he was fine, but.
1:02:45
Others were considered as well. Christopher Lee wanted to play
1:02:48
Gandalf, but Jackson obviously offered him Sarah Man instead.
1:02:51
And apparently Christopher Plummer turned the part down and
1:02:54
Sam Nail had to say no because of scheduling conflicts with
1:02:57
Jurassic Park 3. And Anthony Hopkins also turned
1:03:00
it down. Some great names.
1:03:02
Yeah, some great names. Totally different direction with
1:03:04
every single one of them though. Yeah, I think those have been
1:03:06
great. I think Patrick Mcgoohan said no
1:03:09
as well for health reasons. Longshanks from Braveheart.
1:03:12
Mcgoohan Yeah, yeah. The problem with Hobbiton?
1:03:16
It's full of hobbits. That would have been brilliant.
1:03:19
He would have been great. Actually, he would have been
1:03:21
good as Saruman. He would have been great, yeah.
1:03:24
And then Philippa Boyens was watching footage to see if
1:03:26
Patrick Stewart would make a good Gandalf, but instead
1:03:29
suggested the person he was in the scene with, Ian McKellen.
1:03:32
McKellen hadn't read the books, but said that Jackson's passion
1:03:35
for the project won him over instantly, and so he signed on
1:03:37
as Gandalf. Nice.
1:03:39
Well, it would, wouldn't it? Yeah.
1:03:40
Jackson's like a Hobbit, a wizard, and the Nell Fall rolled
1:03:43
into one. Yeah.
1:03:44
Yeah. And as well, McKellen said that
1:03:45
he based his accent as Gandalf on recordings of talking,
1:03:49
reading The Hobbit, Right. And I can definitely hear it if
1:03:51
you listen to those recordings. Yeah, yeah.
1:03:53
Nice. I'll check that out.
1:03:54
McKellen was cast, but there was a problem when filming on X-Men
1:03:57
Overran and McKellen realized he'd had.
1:03:59
I have to pull out of Lord of the Rings.
1:04:00
That same day, he ran into Robert Shea at a restaurant in
1:04:03
London, and McKellen told him. I've just heard I can't do the
1:04:05
film. McCallum said the next thing he
1:04:07
knew, the shooting schedules for both X-Men and Lord of the Rings
1:04:10
had changed, meaning there wasn't any clashes anymore.
1:04:13
Amazing. Nice.
1:04:14
Wow, Robert Shea calling in some old favours, it sounds like.
1:04:17
Oh, absolutely. Yeah.
1:04:18
Like the Godfather. Robert Sauron Shea.
1:04:24
And once he was cast, McKellen read the trilogy over and over
1:04:27
again and made script suggestions on the back of it.
1:04:30
Jackson said that before shooting the scene, McKellen
1:04:32
would come to him with the book and say, I see you've left this
1:04:35
Gandalf line out, but if you were to include it, this is how
1:04:37
I would do it. And he would have hugged it out
1:04:39
in front of Jackson. Yeah, Jackson said that he was
1:04:42
sold on changing Lords of Gandalf's dialogue on the back
1:04:44
of those mini auditions. Oh wow.
1:04:46
Right. Yeah, I think the vast majority
1:04:48
of Gandalf's dialogue is from the books.
1:04:50
Yeah. So quite the salesman, McKellen.
1:04:52
Yeah. McKellen could have just read
1:04:53
the phone book as Gandalf Thorn. It would have been interesting.
1:04:56
It would have been. Gandalf smokes his pipe a lot in
1:04:58
the film, which comes from the books during production or the
1:05:01
studio had some concerns about children seeing that and Jackson
1:05:04
considered writing it, so Gandalf had just given up
1:05:07
smorgun and chewed Toffees instead.
1:05:09
Niggarettes. He'd be vaping now, wouldn't he?
1:05:14
He eventually went with the pipe though, which I think is a much
1:05:16
better idea. Definitely, I love how they went
1:05:18
from him not smoking at all to making him a massive pothead.
1:05:21
Yeah, huge. At the party when he's smoking
1:05:23
with Bilbo and he blows his ship out of the smoke.
1:05:27
Love it. Serious weed experience.
1:05:29
Gandalf the Vape. And the makeup designer was
1:05:33
Peter Owen, and McKellen had to sit in his chair for three hours
1:05:36
every morning before filming. The idea was that they would
1:05:39
just add the beard and change Mckellen's eyebrows.
1:05:42
But once they added the beard, Mckellen's nose looked tiny.
1:05:44
So they created a prosthetic version from Mckellen's or nose,
1:05:48
but bigger to balance his face back out.
1:05:50
Yeah, it looks natural, I think. I think it does, yeah.
1:05:53
Yeah, and Peter Rowan, one of Oscar for best, make up for his
1:05:55
work on the film as well. Nice.
1:05:57
We've got to be careful with that.
1:05:58
I mean, like, not like, Tom Hankson wrote Perdition.
1:06:00
That's pretty obvious. Or Steve Martin in Roxanne.
1:06:03
In Roxanne. Yeah.
1:06:06
And costume designer Nyla Dixon created 40 different versions of
1:06:09
Gandalf's clock for McKellen and the various stunt and body
1:06:12
double S he worked with. She said the hat was the most
1:06:15
difficult bit and it took months to design something.
1:06:17
Jackson was happy to sign off. Right.
1:06:19
Yeah, it is a pretty key park, to be fair.
1:06:22
And the silver scarf of Gandalf weighs was added by McKellen
1:06:24
himself. He took that from the books.
1:06:26
Yeah, nice. So like painstaking work just on
1:06:29
this look of 1 character that would kind of take for granted.
1:06:32
Yeah, we do. Yeah.
1:06:32
You kind of just go, oh, well, that's a wizard's hat then.
1:06:34
Well. Of course, yeah.
1:06:35
Yeah, you've got it. Fair enough.
1:06:37
For his performance as Gandalf, Ian McKellen was nominated for
1:06:39
Best Supporting Actor with the Oscars.
1:06:41
The only cast member nominated. Yep, lost out to Jim Broadbent
1:06:44
for Iris. Yep.
1:06:46
Right about you, obviously. Yeah, but for us, Ian McKellen
1:06:50
as Gandalf, one of the definitive Wizards and mentor
1:06:53
figures in movies? Absolutely.
1:06:55
Iconic, yeah. The final cast member of the
1:07:00
main trio we're looking at is Viggo Mortensen as Aragon, also
1:07:03
known as Strider. Yeah, the rightfully to the
1:07:06
throne of Gondor. Aragorn shows up as a Ranger in
1:07:08
The Prancing Pony in protects the hobbits on their journey
1:07:11
from Bray onwards and shows signs of accepting his destiny
1:07:14
in the climax of the film. Yeah, yeah, a servant of the
1:07:17
enemy would look fairer, but feel Fowler, Wesley.
1:07:19
Absolutely. How is Viggo Mortensen as
1:07:21
Aragorn? How is Viggo Mortensen?
1:07:23
Is Aragon perfect? It's the most perfect role I
1:07:27
think I've ever seen and will stand by.
1:07:29
I think it's just absolutely flawless, 100%.
1:07:32
I mean, he's a beautiful man. Let's get that out of the way.
1:07:34
Everything he wears is absolutely flawless.
1:07:37
Just the way that he carries the character, just his pride,
1:07:40
that's kind of not even evident, but there's just weight that he
1:07:43
carries. There's just this responsibility
1:07:45
that he's got. There's just this real, like
1:07:47
perfect father figure almost, but at the same time, he's not
1:07:50
the main character. It feels like he is, but he's
1:07:53
not. And he has that room and he has
1:07:55
that space for everybody else and he's just incredible, just
1:07:59
incredibly emotive. I think the way that he plays
1:08:02
that character, he's just absolutely disappears into it.
1:08:06
100%. I haven't seen him in anything
1:08:08
better and he's amazing and everything.
1:08:10
He's given everything to this and you can see he's given out
1:08:13
everything to it. Even close-ups of his hands you
1:08:15
can see like he hasn't washed them for weeks.
1:08:18
Yeah, the filthy on there. Everything about him is just
1:08:21
manky, but it's just authentic. I want to be wet.
1:08:25
I don't want to wear underwear because they wouldn't have had
1:08:27
it. I bet he's got no socks on.
1:08:29
He just doesn't give a. Shit.
1:08:31
It's made friends with the fucking horses, for God's sake.
1:08:34
Yeah, yeah. Every single thing that he does
1:08:36
in this film is just 100%, and not just this in all of them and
1:08:41
all the way through. He just absolutely owns it like
1:08:44
everybody else owns it. But what a pleasure to see him
1:08:47
on the screen. It is.
1:08:48
Yeah. And even when he's just in the
1:08:49
Prancer pony and he's smoking in the corner, that's just cool as
1:08:52
ice pops out in it. I mean, imagine when you used to
1:08:54
be able to smoke in pubs. I tried to pull that off and it
1:08:56
didn't work. It was that weird over there
1:08:59
with these hood up tracksuit on. But you know, even like the name
1:09:03
Strider, you would think, oh, that's too cool for anyone to
1:09:06
pull off. Nope.
1:09:08
Endlessly watchable, endlessly followable.
1:09:10
I would easily follow this guy anyway.
1:09:13
I didn't give a shit where he's going.
1:09:14
He's like Wesley, we're going here.
1:09:15
I'm like made 100% I'm coming with you.
1:09:19
Amazing. Love him, absolutely love him.
1:09:21
So you like him then, Rusty? It's just a perfect performance.
1:09:25
It's wonderful. Yeah, he's the big heroic action
1:09:27
figure, isn't he? I mean, certainly compared to
1:09:29
the other series we've just spoken about.
1:09:31
And he has a huge Ark Aragon, which mostly takes place across
1:09:34
the three films Ranger to King of Gondor.
1:09:36
But what's great in the writing is how he gets knock here as
1:09:39
well as Boromia dies at the end. Aragorn refers to Gondo as our
1:09:43
people for the first time. Yes, we start to accept his
1:09:45
place, our people. And something else I think is
1:09:47
interesting about the writing is how different this Aragorn is to
1:09:50
the book version. Because in the books, Aragorn
1:09:52
accepts who he is from the start, and he's ready to be
1:09:54
king, right? Yeah.
1:09:55
He's reluctant. He's in exile.
1:09:57
He's got a big pipe. I mean, that's a good change
1:10:00
because it gives him an obvious narrative arc.
1:10:02
I bet he has. And you think of Mortensen,
1:10:07
Obviously you love him. Westie, I love him.
1:10:09
I also think he's pretty great. On the other hand, this could
1:10:11
have been a slightly cliche character, I think.
1:10:14
Oh yeah, 100%. But not with Mortensen.
1:10:16
The action scenes, he's massive, pulls them off no problem.
1:10:20
And we know he's a good actor. And in the dramatic scenes he
1:10:22
gets, and there's probably more there than he gets credit for,
1:10:24
he's great in those as well. Yeah, we'll talk about some of
1:10:26
the bits, but where some of the cast members are occasionally
1:10:29
over the top and they align deliveries for me, Mortens
1:10:32
always measured. He's always grounded, which I
1:10:35
definitely prefer. Yeah.
1:10:36
So he's rugged, he's heroic, he's conflicted.
1:10:39
W he loves them. Yeah, classic stuff.
1:10:41
But a film like this needs a bit of that.
1:10:43
Our going delivers it and so does They Come Once and yeah,
1:10:46
brilliant performance for me. Just get your head around it on
1:10:48
paper, right? The camera is just, it's a low
1:10:50
angle. It pushes forward.
1:10:52
He puts a knife into his scabbard, turns towards the
1:10:54
other two and says let's hunt some orc and then runs away.
1:10:58
You're reading that going, there's nobody who can pull this
1:11:01
off in a million years. And when he does it, their hair
1:11:04
stand up on the back of the neck.
1:11:05
I'm like, and I'm starting to cry.
1:11:06
I'm like, let's, let's do it. Yes, we are.
1:11:10
You're at the front door, I'm at the.
1:11:11
Front door just on me with the Morrison the pen knife in me
1:11:17
jeans pocket. And Matt, what do you think of
1:11:22
it? Doesn't matter, does it?
1:11:25
I cannot feel that about all. No, I think Martin is just the
1:11:29
absolute man in this, isn't he? And yeah, but the really
1:11:32
interesting thing is there's no ego here at all, because this
1:11:35
could be such a bulky, macho performance done with the real
1:11:39
cockiness. But Martin plays with such a
1:11:41
reluctance. He doesn't want to be known as
1:11:43
the presumptive king. He would much prefer to be
1:11:46
strided as going about his business.
1:11:48
He doesn't want Arwen to give up immortality for him because what
1:11:51
if he doesn't deserve it? But when he's called
1:11:53
interaction, he absolutely does not hold back.
1:11:56
And it's what Wesley is saying. There is just this natural
1:11:59
leadership to him that shines through.
1:12:01
And I think he was as much a leader on set as he is a
1:12:04
character on screen. I think everybody just followed
1:12:07
his lead. I think he let those actors
1:12:09
through so much. It's like Aragon needs the
1:12:11
characters through so much. And I think it's that sense
1:12:13
looking at him is one of these actors are going, you know what?
1:12:16
If Vigo is going to do it, I'm going to do it because I trust
1:12:18
him. And I think if I follow him, I'm
1:12:20
going to be OK. And like on screen, that moment
1:12:23
in The Two Towers when he throws those huge doors open at
1:12:27
Helmstee, you just get that sense of relief, like, oh thank
1:12:30
God, I will go and see. We'll get through this now.
1:12:33
Now that he's this one man will change things.
1:12:35
That's just what he brings. And that arc from mysterious
1:12:39
Ranger to the reluctant hero to the King of Gondor is just
1:12:43
perfect. It's a perfect bit of custom.
1:12:46
Yeah, so of all the castings that took place in The Lord of
1:12:49
the Rings, the most contentious story revolved around Viggo
1:12:52
Mortensen, a tale all of its own.
1:12:54
Yeah, we've not got talking to tell it, but we have got the
1:12:57
next best thing. So, Matt, you were for regaling
1:13:00
us again? Me again?
1:13:02
Yep. Go on then why not?
1:13:05
So one of the first people Jackson met with was Russell
1:13:08
Crowe. But Crowe said that he sensed it
1:13:10
was the studio who wanted him more than Peter Jackson, so he
1:13:12
chose to step away from it. Yeah, Crow was fresh from
1:13:15
Gladiator, so you can see why the one that him, I think.
1:13:18
Would make sense, yeah. Yeah, he probably turned up with
1:13:20
his band. That's what put Jackson off.
1:13:21
Yeah, very possible, yeah. But Jackson's first choice was
1:13:26
actually Daniel Day Lewis and he tried to convince him by meeting
1:13:30
with him multiple times and the studio kept offering more money.
1:13:33
But Day Lewis just wasn't interested in being a
1:13:35
blockbusters and kept saying no. Right, yeah, I think you said
1:13:38
you wouldn't want to be in a film that he wouldn't want to
1:13:40
see himself. Oh, that's fair enough.
1:13:42
So no interest in Lord of the Rings?
1:13:44
Fair enough. Amount of principles, clearly.
1:13:45
Absolutely, yeah. Vin Diesel also auditioned.
1:13:49
What I know. Imagine that all about the
1:13:52
family. No, No chance.
1:13:54
Loads of high fives. No, I get that.
1:13:57
Low fives for The Hobbit and. Apparently Nick Cage was offered
1:14:02
the part but said no due to family obligations, and then
1:14:06
after auditions, Jackson cast the part by Highland Stewart
1:14:09
Townsend, who was an Irish actor whose biggest role at the time
1:14:12
had been shooting fish. Shooting fish, Yeah.
1:14:15
Yeah, like a British ROM com. Was yeah.
1:14:17
Imagine Cage in there, Aragon going nuts at the hobbits every
1:14:20
5 minutes. Ludicrous idea.
1:14:24
Isn't. No.
1:14:25
I'd love to see that trailer. So Stuart Townsend trained for
1:14:30
two months prior to production starting, but then the day
1:14:33
before filming, according to Townsend, he got an e-mail from
1:14:36
Jackson just saying he'd been fired.
1:14:38
The reason that was officially released was that at only 27,
1:14:41
Jackson had realized Townsend just looked too young to play
1:14:44
the part. Absolute nightmare.
1:14:46
Awful lot. Yeah.
1:14:47
Over the years, as the stories have leaked out that apparently
1:14:49
not just Jackson but senior cast members have raised issues about
1:14:52
Townsend. Things like you'd be skipping
1:14:54
sword training sessions. And he was overly negative at
1:14:56
times. Apparently Ian McKellen
1:14:58
confronted him saying, you don't want to be in this film, don't
1:15:00
you? And Jackson heard about it.
1:15:02
Yeah. I mean if all true, that's only
1:15:04
ending one way unfortunately. Yeah, it is.
1:15:06
Yeah. So Mark our Deskie said he got a
1:15:09
call from Jackson saying Townsend had left the project
1:15:11
and they needed a new outgoing immediately or desk.
1:15:14
He suggested Viggo Mortensen, somebody Jackson and the writers
1:15:17
had already been considering. Mortensen said he got a call
1:15:20
offering him the part and he wasn't sure, but his 11 year old
1:15:23
son Henry, he was a big fan of the books and persuaded him to
1:15:25
do it. Yes, Henry.
1:15:27
Yes, there's our Savior. He said that he got a call at
1:15:29
home offering him the part and was told it was this huge 15
1:15:32
month production in New Zealand. And he said, wow, I mean, that's
1:15:35
a big decision, I need time to think about it.
1:15:37
And they said, yeah, yeah, no problem.
1:15:39
You've got till this afternoon. When Mortensen 2 on the roll, he
1:15:44
had some conditions for Jackson. Mortensen once trilingual and
1:15:47
spoke English, Danish and Spanish, and asked Jackson if
1:15:50
more of Aragon's lines could be written in Elvis.
1:15:54
I mean some boy, I mean. Can you make it even harder
1:15:58
please? Yeah, can you make Wesley even
1:16:00
more jealous? He said he wanted to do as many
1:16:03
of his own stunts as possible, which included using a real
1:16:06
steel sword, not a lighter one that the other actors used.
1:16:09
And Jackson agreed to both. I mean, come on.
1:16:12
Yeah, you do get a sense of the weight of how we're going, so
1:16:14
don't you? It looks heavy as hell when he's
1:16:16
swinging it about, Yeah. Amazing.
1:16:19
So talking about the sword, the cast were trained for the sword
1:16:22
fight by Bob Anderson, and he was an Olympic fencer who got
1:16:25
involved with Hollywood when he retired.
1:16:27
He'd already worked on several Bond films, the original Star
1:16:30
Wars trilogy and The Princess Bride.
1:16:32
And he said that Morton was the best actor he ever trained as a
1:16:35
swordsman. And apparently, and I completely
1:16:37
believe this, Mortons encountered a sword with him
1:16:40
everywhere, including in public, and got questioned by the the
1:16:42
police over it. Amazing.
1:16:46
Yeah, Jedi trainer Bob Anderson's role on Lord of the
1:16:49
Rings was Sword Master. Yeah, great job site all that.
1:16:52
Nice. And you know that moment at the
1:16:53
end where alerts the Urokai throws a knife in Aragorn and he
1:16:57
directs it with his sword? Yeah, apparently Mortensen did
1:17:00
that for real. For real?
1:17:01
Yeah. Like a Jedi, yeah.
1:17:04
Yeah, and because he did his own stunts, Mortensen was injured
1:17:07
pretty frequently. And the fight with alerts at the
1:17:09
end? Mortensen chipped a tooth.
1:17:11
He said he was fine and told the make up team to super glue his
1:17:14
tooth back in. But Jackson said he had to go to
1:17:16
a dentist. Just super glue with back in.
1:17:21
Class like Mortensen, isn't he? Yeah.
1:17:22
Also, I came across an interview from years after the films came
1:17:25
out where we talked about everything, and he signed off by
1:17:28
saying to the interviewer, totally sincerely, one last
1:17:30
thing. If you ever run into Stuart
1:17:32
Townsend, please do give him my best.
1:17:36
Yeah. Right, forget about it next.
1:17:39
No major award if they go more instant for fellowship of the
1:17:42
ring, but seems like we agree I will go and turned out to be in
1:17:45
pretty safe hands. Yes.
1:17:47
Absolutely. We.
1:17:47
Wouldn't be talking about Steel Townsend like this, I don't
1:17:50
think. Or anyone to be honest.
1:17:53
Before we finish on the cast section, we have our first
1:17:55
Patreon question. So as well as all those benefits
1:17:57
from mentioned to the start, if you sign up to become an Atrm
1:18:00
patron, we'll answer your questions on the show.
1:18:02
Yeah, we have the first one now and it's on the cast.
1:18:05
Okay, so Ian Joyner is here. Hello, Ian.
1:18:09
Hello, Ian. So Ian says sometimes the
1:18:11
questions right themselves for me in Hobbits, four members of
1:18:14
ATRM, Who is who in your fellowship?
1:18:17
Also a credit where it's due. Another patron, Tom Coles, asked
1:18:20
a very similar question. Yes.
1:18:22
Right, OK. What do you think about which of
1:18:24
us is a witch Hobbit? I'm going with you first, John,
1:18:27
because never known anyone love food as much as you do.
1:18:31
So you would therefore definitely be Pippin because.
1:18:33
Pippin loves this food. You definitely have a second
1:18:36
breakfast, I know you do. I'd love to, yeah.
1:18:40
And it was the fastest I've ever seen anyone eat a pizza or
1:18:42
winner for pizza I've. Eaten Westies food before and
1:18:48
he's a great cook. He makes delicious food to.
1:18:50
Therefore, he'd be Sam, because Sam is knocking up food all the
1:18:53
time. That's very kind.
1:18:54
Thank you mate. Anytime obviously pop over, not
1:18:57
second breakfast. I'm going to John's for second
1:18:59
breakfast and I'll see you then for Frodo.
1:19:02
I'm going for Luke because it just tickles me that someone
1:19:04
with so much disdain for the fantasy genre would be the lead
1:19:07
in these films. He would be the most reluctant
1:19:10
hero you've ever seen. And therefore that leaves me as
1:19:12
Merry. All right, nice.
1:19:14
Well done. Yeah, well, I suppose someone
1:19:16
has to carry the burden of all the right movies, so I'll
1:19:19
reluctantly take Frodo. And that makes me sound more
1:19:21
heroic than I actually AM. Yeah, work with Luke, obviously,
1:19:24
so he can be Sam. And Luke does cook a good Stew
1:19:26
from. What I remember OK, right?
1:19:28
And then you guys thick as thieves from your cinema days.
1:19:31
So obviously Mary and Pippin. Yeah, yeah, much Pippin, as he
1:19:34
also has a beautiful soft singing voice.
1:19:36
I would imagine, like in the Return of the King.
1:19:38
Well, so Wesley or Mary. Well, I mean, you're not Mary,
1:19:41
obviously. I can definitely say you're
1:19:44
puffing on one of his pipes. Although actually, I do think
1:19:46
we're probably all a bit like Pippin when it comes to second
1:19:48
breakfast and eleventhers. I think so, yeah.
1:19:52
Mine's the same as yours, John, to be honest.
1:19:54
Like node for node, it's split in the two camps, isn't it?
1:19:56
You've got Frodo and Sam who are together who are kind of leading
1:19:58
the way. And I think that's you and Luke
1:20:00
obviously with leading each episode and doing, you know, a
1:20:02
lot of the research would be by. And then you've got the 2 are
1:20:04
just pissing around in the background, which is just me and
1:20:06
Matt. I would definitely put you down
1:20:09
as throat or leading the way. Luke's going to be Sam.
1:20:11
I'll put myself as merry. Nice.
1:20:13
Am I slightly older than you? Are you slightly older than me?
1:20:16
I'm slightly older than you. All right, well, I'll switch it
1:20:18
around. I'll be Pippin, I'll be the
1:20:19
idiot, and you can be Merry and help us get there.
1:20:21
So yeah, that's where I'll see it.
1:20:23
Yeah. Nice, I was.
1:20:24
Hoping it was going to be the whole fellowship and I'll be
1:20:26
like I'm Aragorn. Well, that's says the Shire Fork
1:20:32
and also our main cast section. Done.
1:20:34
Yeah, as we've said, all major cast members will be covered
1:20:37
across the three Lord of the Rings episodes, but for now
1:20:39
we've taught Elijah Woods fraud or Ian McKellen as Gandalf and
1:20:43
Viggo Mortensen as Aragorn. Yep, 3 good pieces of casting
1:20:46
and all career defining for each of them.
1:20:49
Yeah, Flawless. All three, I think.
1:20:51
Yeah. Perfect casting.
1:20:55
The middle. So with the Nazgul on their
1:21:00
trail, the hobbits make it debris in the Prancing Pony.
1:21:03
In Frodo accidentally discovered a new power of the ring and we
1:21:06
meet the mysterious Strider. Then the Nazgul attack at the
1:21:09
ancient ruin. A weather top Matt, you would
1:21:12
love a few wheels with a prancing pony.
1:21:14
I absolutely do, yeah. Yeah.
1:21:17
I mean, I think we've all been as excited as Pippin at the
1:21:19
thought of a pint at one point, haven't we?
1:21:22
It's that I'm Alvin One. Definitely.
1:21:25
But then, as we've been saying, this is our first glimpse of
1:21:27
Aragon, and who is this guy? Really Mysterious, really, for
1:21:30
Borden at this point, actually. And this is another same way.
1:21:33
It just emphasizes how far out of their comfort zone the
1:21:36
hobbits are. Because who can they trust here?
1:21:38
They don't know anyone. They barely know where they are.
1:21:41
And if you think about the last time we see Aragon in this
1:21:44
trilogy, what a journey this character goes on from this
1:21:47
first pavement skulking in the shadows to his coronation as
1:21:50
king at the end and the introduction that he has with
1:21:52
these cows, it continues to ground the threat because he has
1:21:56
that great conversation with Frodo once he pulls them all
1:21:58
upstairs. You frightened?
1:22:00
Yes. Not nearly frightened enough.
1:22:03
That's great. Again, it's one of those signs,
1:22:04
you think on the page, who can make that work?
1:22:07
Viggo Morton, that's who. He can make it work.
1:22:09
And then instantly, you think, well, I want to follow this guy
1:22:12
because if it wasn't for him, the hobbits would have been
1:22:14
sleeping in their beds when the Nas go creep in and attack.
1:22:17
And I think that's such a great rug pull on the audience.
1:22:19
It is. Yeah.
1:22:20
That actually watching from another room across the street.
1:22:23
It's brilliantly done. Yeah, yeah, when we first get to
1:22:26
breathe, there's some great digital effects that
1:22:28
establishing shot of the village where the camera like pans out
1:22:31
to show the whole place. The set was actually pretty
1:22:33
small and they filled the background digitally.
1:22:35
It looks totally real to me. It's a great shot.
1:22:38
Yeah. But while I about the whole
1:22:39
sequence is how Jackson, like, subtly ramps up the tension
1:22:42
through all this mystery. The hobbits are out there depth
1:22:44
and we see that where everyone's towering above them, which is a
1:22:47
nice visual touch. Yeah.
1:22:48
And Aragon, we've all said it, but that intro shot in the
1:22:51
corner in the dog hood up, huge pipe.
1:22:54
I love it. Yeah, proper mysterious stranger
1:22:56
stuff. And I like it when he takes
1:22:58
Frodo away to another room and some bursts in.
1:23:00
Like all have you long Shanks and the Nazgal still pursuing
1:23:07
them is essential. I like it when the birds past
1:23:09
the Watchmen at the village and the scene in the Hobbit's room
1:23:11
where the stabs the beds are nicely done.
1:23:13
More horrid shops, I think, from Jackson.
1:23:15
But the Nazgal presence adds this constant background threat
1:23:18
to everything, which is great. And we see a couple of changes
1:23:22
to the source material here. In the novel, the Nascal don't
1:23:25
attack the hobbits in their bed themselves.
1:23:27
They kind of possess some of the men of breed to do it for them
1:23:29
instead. And then in the books also,
1:23:32
Bilbo says Frodo is his second cousin once removed.
1:23:35
But in the films they changed to Bilbo being Frodo's uncle.
1:23:38
Bilbo says it earlier. But then in the Pranson Pony,
1:23:40
Pippin says Frodo is Bilbo's second cousin, once removed on
1:23:44
his mother's side. Yeah, a little nod.
1:23:46
How much of A tool is Pippin completely gives the game away
1:23:50
complete liability. Sure.
1:23:51
I know a bagging Frodo. Bagging.
1:23:53
He's over there. What Peregrine tool?
1:23:59
Although that does lead to Frodo accidentally putting on the ring
1:24:01
and going invisible. So it's a good way of showing us
1:24:03
something. But kind of need to know about
1:24:05
the ring, yeah. Yeah, I mean, from there we get
1:24:08
one of the greatest lines of all the trilogy, which is just so
1:24:10
wonderful. Before weather tops.
1:24:12
What about second breakfast? Absolutely.
1:24:15
Brilliant. But anyway, I'm going straight
1:24:18
to weather top because I think this is just as a set looks
1:24:21
incredible. It's so, so good.
1:24:24
It has this real kind of atmosphere to it.
1:24:27
It's supposed to be a safe place, but it looks anything
1:24:29
but. Again, Marian Pittman fucking
1:24:32
messing everything up. Nice crispy bacon.
1:24:34
Oh, it's infuriating that. Let's put it out.
1:24:37
Put it out. Yeah.
1:24:38
And then you get that scream of the Nazgo.
1:24:40
Yeah. And that amazing moment when
1:24:42
Frodo puts the ring on and you see them.
1:24:43
And I think it's a really cool visual where there's like,
1:24:46
they're the kings when they're in the ring world and you just
1:24:49
see them like, further what they actually look like.
1:24:51
Yeah. And then Frodo gets stabbed and
1:24:53
you're like, what? What's going on?
1:24:55
It's just a wonderful, wonderful sequence where it's like we're
1:24:58
never out of this danger where we're going.
1:25:00
How are we going to get away from these things?
1:25:02
They're just constantly there. And Mary and people are
1:25:04
constantly messing things up. Yeah, yeah, Just get rid of
1:25:08
them, right. Let's just do this properly.
1:25:10
Let's get level headed with it. But it's Aragorn appearance,
1:25:13
Aragon fighting off the nasal as well.
1:25:14
It's like, it's anything this guy can't do.
1:25:16
Can it just be any more impressive than what I'm already
1:25:19
seeing? But again, it just sets up the
1:25:21
next part of the story. We're going into like Act 2 now,
1:25:24
and this is just so pivotal because this ultimately is what
1:25:28
kills Frodo. The death blow at the start of
1:25:31
the trilogy and weather top. And you find that out so much
1:25:34
later, which gives this scene so much more weight and so much
1:25:37
more poignancy. And I watch it again now and I
1:25:39
just love it. I pay far more attention now to
1:25:41
the scene than I did for the first time I watched it.
1:25:42
It really holds up on extra viewings.
1:25:45
Sausages. Nice crispy bacon with a fire.
1:25:48
Fire. Why doesn't Arrow go and just
1:25:50
send them all packing? Give me the ring.
1:25:52
Definitely them to like. But this is the first time we'll
1:25:56
see a proper fight with the Nasgal Jackson's built with, so
1:25:58
it has to be worth the wait. And it definitely is.
1:26:01
Yeah, but after Frodo get stabbed by that Morgul blade, as
1:26:04
I would go, and 'cause it, yeah, it leads to an action sequence.
1:26:07
I think I might prefer when Alwyn turns up to get Frodo to
1:26:10
Rivendell. Nice.
1:26:11
That horse chase is a great action scene.
1:26:14
Yeah. The low angles, tracking Alwyn's
1:26:16
horse and then cutting to these wide shots showing the Nas go
1:26:18
like closing in. It's like thrilling stuff.
1:26:21
Incredible. And then the Nas go stop at the
1:26:22
edge of the river. The Brewin it's called.
1:26:24
Which makes sense because we've already seen them avoid the
1:26:26
Brandywine earlier on. And then Alwin's line, if you
1:26:30
want him, come and claim him. What a line that is.
1:26:33
Unreal. Written for the film.
1:26:35
It's not in the books and it's great.
1:26:37
I mean, it's only a minor scene relatively, but one of my
1:26:39
favorite action scenes in the three films.
1:26:41
When the water turns into horses as well.
1:26:43
That is so badass. Yeah, it really is.
1:26:46
And the first scene that Mortensen filmed was the weather
1:26:48
top sequence. So as soon as he landed in New
1:26:51
Zealand, he was taken straight off to Bob Anderson for saw
1:26:54
training. And he said he was in a room
1:26:56
with Anderson and nine of the guys with swords.
1:26:58
Anderson gave him a sword and shouted go, and the nine others
1:27:01
all charged Mortenson, screaming and swinging the swords about.
1:27:04
Mortenson said he just shouted, holy shit.
1:27:07
And Anderson replied, right, that's what you're going to be
1:27:09
dealing with. Now let's get to work.
1:27:11
Nice. At that moment, Aragorn turns
1:27:14
off, sword in one hand, fire in the other.
1:27:16
Absolute legend. But by that top itself, that was
1:27:19
filmed on a farm near Port Waikato because it had this
1:27:22
tabletop style mountain that could film on right?
1:27:25
I mean, we keep saying it, but these locations are incredible.
1:27:28
Next level Next. Level.
1:27:30
I think when cast and crew members start turning up at
1:27:32
these places, that must have been a real God, this mad key.
1:27:35
We might actually pull this off. Yeah.
1:27:37
Yeah, yeah, he's got something here.
1:27:39
Yeah, it. Really helps him getting the
1:27:40
character as well. If you're in that location,
1:27:42
you're like, this is what it looks like, you know?
1:27:44
All right, OK, perfect. Exactly you must do.
1:27:46
Just before they reach by the top as we've discussed there's
1:27:48
the same way Pippen asks are going about second breakfast.
1:27:50
I'm not going to do the accent again.
1:27:52
It's only good enough one join paper and I'll do it for you.
1:27:56
Are we going throws him an apple?
1:27:57
And when the film the scene, Jackson at them shooting apple
1:28:00
being thrown at Billy Boyd 16 times before, he was happy with
1:28:03
it. And Boyd said Mortensen enjoyed
1:28:05
it far too much. It is funny, Pippin asked about
1:28:09
breakfast. Now we're going like you just
1:28:11
had breakfast. And Pippin goes.
1:28:12
We've had one, yes. And in the books, an elf does
1:28:17
arrive at Weathertop to see a photo, but it's not Arwen, it's
1:28:20
a male elf called Glorfindal. Arwen is in the books, but only
1:28:24
in a minor role. She's mentioning Rivendell in
1:28:26
Fellowship of the Ring and Marie's Aragon in Return of the
1:28:29
King, but plays no role in the plot.
1:28:31
Well, I'm very glad that she changed it.
1:28:33
So man. When she appears, it's like,
1:28:35
thank God, a woman only an hour in, Yeah.
1:28:38
Yeah, yeah. It seems like she's always
1:28:41
watching what Aragon's doing, those always there to help them.
1:28:43
That's how it feels. Yeah, and Jackson knew he wanted
1:28:46
a well known actress to play Arwen.
1:28:48
And apparently Kylie Minogue auditioned to play, well, the
1:28:51
first person Jackson want to resume with Thurman, but she
1:28:54
said no because she'd just fallen pregnant.
1:28:56
Yeah. And Jackson then spoke to me
1:28:57
with Sorvino and Ashley Judd before casting Liv Tyler.
1:29:01
All right, nice. Yeah, Thurman could have been
1:29:02
great, obviously. Yeah, wonderful.
1:29:04
But at the time, Liv Taylor was probably the biggest star in the
1:29:07
cast, I think. Probably just off the bat of
1:29:10
Armageddon was. Yeah, it was, yeah.
1:29:11
Yeah, probably. Yeah.
1:29:12
It's a good show. That's why she's on all the
1:29:14
posters. Yeah, yeah.
1:29:15
Steven Taylor should have been. Now run.
1:29:17
That would have been. Amazing.
1:29:19
How about you not? Which was at the Council well.
1:29:24
What this way? And Tyler was another member of
1:29:29
the cast who never read the books when she was cast, but she
1:29:32
quickly did. She also learned some elvish and
1:29:35
spent months in New Zealand before filming, Learning saw
1:29:37
training and horse riding. Yeah, she also learned how to
1:29:40
deepen her voice for her as well.
1:29:41
She said that her dad, Steven Tyler, asked her why she'll let
1:29:44
them digitally alter her voice. And she was like, they didn't.
1:29:46
That's all me. All right.
1:29:48
I think she's really good. I wish we had more of her if
1:29:50
anything. Definitely need more.
1:29:51
Yeah, she's fantastic. Yeah.
1:29:53
So that's the introduction of Strider and our first proper
1:29:55
battle with the Naz goal. When hobbits are in over their
1:29:58
heads, they usually are, to be fair.
1:30:00
Yeah, no choice. But with our going and Arwen, a
1:30:04
couple of good action sequences there.
1:30:06
Yeah, great. After Arwen's race against the 9
1:30:11
gets Frodo to safety, we find ourselves in Rivendell, the
1:30:14
House of Lord Elrond, played by Hugo Weaving.
1:30:17
We get Gandalf's reunion with Frodo.
1:30:19
Some new character introductions in Sean Beans, Bora, Mia,
1:30:22
Orlando Blooms, Elf Legolas and John Reece Davies, Dwarf Gimli,
1:30:26
and the formation of the Fellowship.
1:30:28
We're going to see the elves, Matt.
1:30:30
We are. How do we find things at
1:30:32
Rivendell? A little bit tense, to be
1:30:35
honest, between some of these characters, yeah.
1:30:37
Yeah, a little bit. Particularly between Aragon and
1:30:39
Boromy at the start. You know, Aragon, he doesn't
1:30:42
want to give away who he is. You get the sense he's not sure
1:30:45
of Boromy from the start. I love that bit when Boromy
1:30:48
called some friend and he just stares at him like, yeah, yeah,
1:30:52
I'll be the judge of that, thank you.
1:30:53
Whether we're mates or not, the difference between the couch is
1:30:56
because you've got that broken salt there nozzle and you see
1:30:59
Boromir just treating it like a trinket, something he can just
1:31:02
like Chuck around, which Condostrogon who has such real
1:31:05
reverence for it. But having said that, all this
1:31:07
tension that said that just sets up their ventral reconciliation
1:31:11
really beautifully at the end. So it's all about planting the
1:31:14
seeds. And then you get the other
1:31:16
conversation with Owen, which gives us the depth that we need
1:31:18
for their altogether because we don't really know who she is at
1:31:21
this point. Apart from that amazing action
1:31:23
scene you talked about John, when she rescues fraud or?
1:31:26
Yeah. But the relationship with Aragon
1:31:28
needs strengthening, and that's what the scene does because we
1:31:31
see all the doubts that Aragon has for the first time.
1:31:34
And we also see that Arwen is the only one he really confides
1:31:37
in because she believes him. You know, she believes he can be
1:31:40
the rightful heir to Isolde and could be the king.
1:31:43
And it's done really well because Jackson treats all these
1:31:45
intimate character moments just to see as he does the action
1:31:48
sequences. Absolutely, I like all these
1:31:50
little character moments we get. I mean we've had a good chunk of
1:31:53
action, so nice to take a bit of a breather and we get some back
1:31:56
story to our goal. And the intro to Boromia.
1:31:58
I mean for someone who's such a proud son of Gondor, Boromia has
1:32:02
no respect for Nasal Isel days broken sword just drops on the
1:32:05
floor and walks off. I know.
1:32:06
Outrageous. Yeah.
1:32:08
But all the stuff around Aragorn's essential He picks the
1:32:10
sword, or be careful. He puts it back on the scene
1:32:13
with Arwen, then gives us the love story.
1:32:15
I think that's all really nicely done.
1:32:17
It kind of gives us Aragorn's motivations for the rest of the
1:32:20
trilogy, really. I think he carries it in the
1:32:22
book, doesn't he? Aragorn, he carries nozzle and
1:32:24
then when he's fighting on whether top, he pulls it out and
1:32:26
it's already broken. But Peter Jackson was I couldn't
1:32:29
have done that in the film because people just thought it
1:32:30
was hilarious that he pulls out a broken sword because he
1:32:33
already had it with him. It sounds like The Princess
1:32:34
Bride or something. Yeah, yeah, that would have been
1:32:39
really funny. But yeah, that's why it's
1:32:41
actually in this scene, to kind of give that bit of back story.
1:32:43
Yeah, nice. And the Rivendell sequences were
1:32:46
filmed in Kaitoki Regional Park near Upper Hutt on New Zealand's
1:32:50
North Island. It's a forested park and Jackson
1:32:52
always wanted to film Rivendell there.
1:32:55
They built the set on location and it had real water running
1:32:57
through it. Lovely.
1:32:59
And obviously it's all signposted today for visitors.
1:33:01
Yeah, must be some tour around New Zealand.
1:33:03
This. Must be amazing.
1:33:05
Yeah. David Bowie apparently wanted to
1:33:08
play Elrond. I mean, can we just think about
1:33:10
that for a second? That's all I think about.
1:33:12
These dresses like the Goblin King.
1:33:14
Yeah, you're. Selling it, yeah.
1:33:21
I know, right? But Jackson was worried.
1:33:22
He was too famous to play a supporting character.
1:33:24
One of the producers, Barry Osborne, had just worked with
1:33:27
Hugo Weaving on The Matrix and recommended him to Jackson, and
1:33:31
that's how he came to play Elrond.
1:33:33
Yeah, I like Hugo Weaving. He's good as Elrond.
1:33:35
It does bother me slightly how poor faced he is about
1:33:37
everything. I know what you mean, yeah.
1:33:40
I'm not a big fan of how we see his Mordor.
1:33:41
It's like Mordor. Yeah, I mean, Speaking of Hugo
1:33:48
Weaving, we'll go to the Council of Elrond, which is a secret
1:33:51
meeting. Why not?
1:33:52
He's great. He really kind of carries this
1:33:54
for me because he is so serious. He kind of looking around.
1:33:58
It's the reactions here that make this scene for me.
1:34:00
It's so weird and so serious. The amount of time cinematically
1:34:05
this would have taken to shoot with everybody sat in a circle
1:34:08
just to get the eye lines to match would have been absolutely
1:34:11
outrageous. And know who's looking way or
1:34:12
who's looking at who, or your screen left and your screen
1:34:15
right. The tension is just ramped up
1:34:17
and ramped up and ramped up. But just before that, I mean,
1:34:19
Sean Bean's speech in this. Can we talk about that for a
1:34:21
second? Of course.
1:34:22
Because it's just unbelievable. Yeah, it's just fantastic.
1:34:26
It's a meme of all memes for me it.
1:34:28
Really is. Just that look and 1 does not
1:34:31
simply, but his whole delivery of it is just incredible and
1:34:35
it's like the very air you breathe.
1:34:36
There's a poisonous fume. Not with 10,000 men could you do
1:34:40
this? It is folly.
1:34:42
It's like, please don't make us do it.
1:34:44
And it's just this complete fear that everyone's got now.
1:34:47
Thraudo then realizes what he's got to do and gets all these
1:34:50
visions. He's like, I will take it, I'll
1:34:52
do it, I'll take the ring, and it's Gandalf.
1:34:54
It's Ian Mckellen's reaction here.
1:34:57
And you know what the direction was that Peter Jackson gave to
1:34:59
Ian McKellen for this scene? What was it?
1:35:01
It was imagine that your teenage son has just been told he has to
1:35:05
go and fight in World War 1. Wow, wow.
1:35:07
And if you watch that reaction again, from that direction to
1:35:10
that, yeah, brilliant. That's a perfect reaction
1:35:12
because he just shuts his eyes. He's like, oh, and then this
1:35:16
humour. Yeah.
1:35:17
From the back of that, you know, because then Sam runs in his
1:35:21
album can't even keep you out of a secret meeting.
1:35:22
He's like, hey, and then you see everybody together and I think
1:35:27
this is the only static shot where you see the nine of the
1:35:29
fellowship all together. Is that right?
1:35:30
I. Think it is, yeah.
1:35:32
As a setup for what the Fellowship is and what it means
1:35:34
and what's at stake, it's pretty flawless.
1:35:37
It is, it's massive. And tell you what, Elrond is a
1:35:40
right one, isn't he tells Gandalf the ring can't stay in
1:35:43
Rivendell. Okay, thanks.
1:35:44
Yeah. And then opens the council by
1:35:46
saying it must be cast into the fires from when it came.
1:35:49
One of you must do this. Yeah, not me.
1:35:52
I'm staying, yeah. I had a shot at it before, it
1:35:54
didn't. Work didn't work out a case in
1:35:58
the wall, obviously, as it brings the Fellowship together
1:36:00
and a step forward in the arc of Frodo.
1:36:02
He agrees to take it on. Yeah.
1:36:03
And up till now as well, the plot's been evolving as we go.
1:36:06
It's like, get to the Francine pony, then get to Rivendell.
1:36:09
Now we know they're going to destroy the ring by throwing it
1:36:11
into Mount Doom. That's the plot for the rest of
1:36:13
the trilogy. Really.
1:36:15
Yeah. And I do like some of the back
1:36:16
and forth. Mostly the moment the borrow me,
1:36:18
I realizes who I were going is. And he's like, this is is he'll
1:36:21
do his hair. And he's clearly thinking, shit,
1:36:24
I shouldn't have dropped that sword.
1:36:25
Yeah, the only thing I'm not a fan of, and this is very much
1:36:29
subjective, is the torn. Towards the end, when they're
1:36:32
all standing there together, the music swells and L runs like You
1:36:36
shall be The Fellowship of the Ring.
1:36:38
It's so on the nose, almost have a physical reaction to it.
1:36:41
I love it, dear. It's just like.
1:36:43
You waiting for the curtains to shut.
1:36:45
Yeah, Yeah, it is like that, yeah.
1:36:46
Feels to me like Jackson knows that's why you have to swap the
1:36:49
discs on the extended edition. Yeah, that's gonna be the point.
1:36:52
You have to swap over to this tape.
1:36:53
Yeah, yeah. But yeah, with us now knowing
1:36:55
the ultimate goal, narratively it might be the most most
1:36:57
important scene in the trilogy, yeah.
1:36:59
Definitely. And this scene is in the book
1:37:02
but was changed a lot for the film.
1:37:03
In the book, it's a debriefing scene that explains what's
1:37:06
happening next. There's no arguments between
1:37:08
anyone and Gandalf delivers a 7 1/2 thousand word monologue.
1:37:13
Jackson, you needed to be cut right down.
1:37:15
And he later admitted to making crimes against the book.
1:37:18
He had to though. A 7 1/2 thousand word monologue
1:37:21
would be about 45 minutes. Imagine that.
1:37:25
Give that a Connery, you'll tell you to piss off.
1:37:30
It's like the end of Apocalypse Now and.
1:37:34
The turn into the scene, which is for the drama, the drivers, a
1:37:37
plot. That's good screen writing, I
1:37:38
think. Yeah, another addition for the
1:37:40
film that I like is where Gimli tries to destroy the ring with
1:37:43
his axe and it just sits there. That's really good.
1:37:45
Yeah, that's great. The scene was constantly
1:37:48
rewritten throughout film, and as Jackson was never happy with
1:37:50
it, the DP, Andrew Leslie said if they shot it as written in
1:37:53
the original script, the scene would have been 40 minutes long.
1:37:56
And Borromya's speech went through rewrites.
1:37:58
So the scene we see in the film, Sean Bean is sitting with the
1:38:01
script on his lap because the changes were only given him the
1:38:04
night before. And he makes really subtle kind
1:38:06
of looks down if you watch it again, just to kind of read a
1:38:09
few lines. He's only does it a couple of
1:38:10
times. But yeah, to still, I mean, that
1:38:13
speech is incredible. To know he didn't even know it
1:38:14
in the morning and has to just learn it and then nail it, it's
1:38:17
even better. Yeah, he is good in that scene.
1:38:19
Sean Bean, he's great. And Rivendell is the first time
1:38:22
we see Boromia. Obviously, he goes on to play a
1:38:24
pretty significant role in this film.
1:38:26
We may not get another chance to discuss him in detail.
1:38:28
So what do you think of Sean Bean is Boromia?
1:38:31
I think maybe he has the toughest drop out of everyone
1:38:34
because every other actor gets to play out their character arc
1:38:37
across three films. Bane doesn't get the chance to
1:38:39
do that. He gets maybe half of this film
1:38:41
to do everything. So the fact that he is still so
1:38:44
memorable and he goes from the guy who you think he's, he's
1:38:47
going to be the weak link here. And he does succumb to
1:38:49
temptation, but still rallies himself in the end to sacrifice
1:38:53
himself to save Mary and Pippen and have that incredibly
1:38:56
emotional final saying where you're devastated that he dies.
1:38:59
Yeah, I think that just speaks to the superb work that Tron
1:39:02
Bane does here to get all that across in amongst everything
1:39:05
else going on here. Yeah, yeah, stuff like it is a
1:39:08
gift. And 1 does not simply walk into
1:39:10
Mordor. Borrow me.
1:39:11
I might be the king of the movie memes.
1:39:13
Yeah, he probably is. The passive car address scenes
1:39:17
where Borromere picks up the ring in the snow were filmed on
1:39:19
Mount New Rule Hoy. The location was 3600 feet up in
1:39:23
the mountains, so the cast and crew were flown there every
1:39:26
morning by helicopter. Sean Bean, however, had a fear
1:39:30
of helicopters, so after the first day he would climb the
1:39:32
mountain and meet the crew up there.
1:39:34
It would take him about two hours every morning.
1:39:37
Wow. I've got more of a fear of
1:39:39
climbing a mountain in the snow for two hours then I have just
1:39:42
getting in a helicopter for 15 minutes. 100%.
1:39:45
Yeah. Jackson said there was something
1:39:47
with Possum on the way up in the helicopter, like 1000 feet below
1:39:50
the sea, Sean being in full Boromy outfit, like scaling this
1:39:54
Cliff face. There's another bit in Rivendell
1:39:58
which is a bit logical but I love.
1:40:00
That jump scare when Bilbo sees the ring round Frodo's neck and
1:40:03
he turns into like a monster face thing for a second.
1:40:06
Oh yeah, that's half a rubber prosthetic as well because I
1:40:09
thought it was all CGI but it's actually like a rubber
1:40:11
prosthetic on Ian Holmes face, which is terrifying.
1:40:13
Yeah, yeah. As we're saying this is a mix of
1:40:15
practical and digital effects what created a rubber puppet
1:40:18
with a horrific face which was then superimposed over Ian
1:40:21
Holmes face in post production. And Holmes loved it so much that
1:40:25
the effects, same hat, the mask, casting iron and gave it to him
1:40:28
at the end of filming as a gift. Amazing.
1:40:31
It is a gift when they gave it to him.
1:40:33
Surely. Yeah, Surely.
1:40:36
So that Rivendell. The fellowship has formed.
1:40:38
Time for our nine companions to set off toward mode or first
1:40:42
door. We've got a mind to visit.
1:40:44
We do. We do.
1:40:45
A mine. The Fellowship sets out from
1:40:50
Rivendale, but their path over the Misty Mountains is blocked
1:40:53
when Sarah Man does the wizard version of a rain dance.
1:40:56
Yes. Instead, the gang take the
1:40:58
underground route through the minds of Moria, where we see
1:41:00
orcs, goblins and Epic shore down on the bridge of Kaza, Doom
1:41:04
and Matt. Yeah, they have a cave throw to
1:41:07
do. How do you find Moria?
1:41:09
Terrifying, to be honest. And glad you said it.
1:41:12
Yeah, and that's such a great line delivery from Boromir.
1:41:15
They have a cave troll. Like, what else is going to go
1:41:18
wrong here? I've got to deal with that now.
1:41:21
Incredible sound design here, The screeching of the goblins in
1:41:24
the distance. And yeah, lovely.
1:41:26
That beating of the drum, which really ramps the tension up.
1:41:30
And just one of the great shots of the Fellowship, that shroud
1:41:32
of them all, like drawing their arms together in that tomb,
1:41:35
backing up against the wall because that dog is splintering.
1:41:38
So, you know, it's not going to hold much longer.
1:41:40
Yeah. And when that troll comes
1:41:41
through, I think it just feels like such an odd way.
1:41:43
Harry Hausen, who he knows a massive influence on Peter
1:41:46
Jackson. I could definitely see this
1:41:48
troll in this sequence as stop motion in a Harry Hausen film
1:41:52
from the 50s or whatever. And the thing that Jackson takes
1:41:55
from him is he got to give these creatures a personality,
1:41:58
although just seem like a special effect and nothing else.
1:42:00
And that's what he does see. It seems really confused.
1:42:03
This troll, it's hitting the goblins as much as anything
1:42:05
else. It's just widely swinging.
1:42:07
And I almost feel sorry for it when it's killed because I think
1:42:10
it's just been tortured to be in this blind rate without
1:42:13
thinking. And the goblins has set it
1:42:15
loose. So yeah, it's yet another
1:42:16
incredible sequence, but very, very, very Harvey Housing for
1:42:19
me. Yeah.
1:42:20
Yeah, I like it when we first walk into Moria and Gandalf's
1:42:22
like, I have no memory of this place.
1:42:25
Oh great. Yeah, nice one.
1:42:26
Yeah, thanks for bringing us here then.
1:42:28
But it's a great location. The production design is
1:42:31
fantastic. It's an excellent how it's
1:42:33
short. It's all like really eerie and
1:42:34
foreboarding great. When Gandalf reads from Balin's
1:42:37
book and he's like Drums in the deep.
1:42:40
We cannot get out. They are coming.
1:42:42
It's chilling. I love it.
1:42:44
Yeah. And a nice fact for Finder The
1:42:46
Hobbit trilogy is that Baylin is in those films.
1:42:48
He's 1 of Thorin's gang. He's the older dwarf with the
1:42:50
big white beard. Yeah.
1:42:51
Which adds some nice context. Yeah.
1:42:53
When Gandalf says he is dead then because he knows them.
1:42:56
And that bit went. Now they are coming and you see
1:42:58
the pen slide away. It's just a wonderful little
1:43:01
moment that is that he's too busy to do anything about it.
1:43:03
Yeah. And then Pippin when the armour
1:43:05
crushes all the way down the well, It's awful.
1:43:08
Liability again. It's Pippin's fault, but Gandalf
1:43:11
has to take some responsibility here.
1:43:12
Bringing this muppet along should have brought Alwyn,
1:43:15
surely? Yeah.
1:43:17
He's a big chunk on The Goonies, isn't he?
1:43:21
But before they go through the mine, the Fellowship tried to
1:43:23
walk across the misty mountains, which are filled with snow.
1:43:26
These are the scenes filmed on Mount Noahu Roy, and there was
1:43:29
no snow there. It was fake snow fired from a
1:43:31
machine and Shawn Arsen said the lights were boiling hot and they
1:43:34
all had sweat pouring down the faces.
1:43:36
Right. There's a nice touch from the
1:43:38
books here as well. When the fellowship roll like up
1:43:40
to the midriffs in snow, Legolas is walking on top of it, and
1:43:43
that's mentioned in the novel. Elves are so light on the feet
1:43:46
that Legolas can walk on top of the snow, it says.
1:43:48
Yeah, it's a great touch that. Yeah, the scene outside the
1:43:52
walls of Mario where Frodo works out the password was filmed at
1:43:54
5:00 AM in a car park, if you can believe it.
1:43:58
Absolutely crazy. And they filled it all with
1:43:59
water. And the late monster that grabs
1:44:01
Frodo was created by Wetter Workshop.
1:44:03
The head of the workshop was Richard Taylor and he briefed
1:44:06
the monster to his team by saying it should look like a
1:44:09
huge sphincter with teeth. And it does.
1:44:13
And it does. It does indeed.
1:44:15
The water in the water, the monsters called the scenes in
1:44:18
the book as well. And another nod of the book here
1:44:20
is Bill the pony. Yes.
1:44:21
Who are? We're going.
1:44:22
And Sam let go outside the mine. Bill actually plays a much
1:44:25
bigger role in the book. He's with The Hobbit, like, all
1:44:27
the way from the start, really here.
1:44:28
It's kind of like, where did Bill come from?
1:44:31
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
1:44:33
I think the executive from New Line said that and they had to
1:44:35
put that line in where it's like, don't worry.
1:44:37
So now you'll find his way home. Yeah, right.
1:44:39
It's like a little nod to the executive.
1:44:41
New line was like, what happens to build a pony when, you know,
1:44:43
really. Yeah, Yeah.
1:44:44
So that to put that line and it's just like, look, he's going
1:44:46
to be fine. He's all right.
1:44:47
It's all right. You find this way?
1:44:48
Confident he's going to get home, I'll.
1:44:51
Be well. You see how far from obviously
1:44:54
can't pass the mountain. Jackson, one of the We get
1:44:56
picked up by the lake monster and kind of thrown around.
1:45:00
That's key with Jackson. That would have been awful,
1:45:02
yeah. And the.
1:45:03
Designs for the Minds of Moria sets were inspired by the works
1:45:07
of a nation artist called Giovanni Batista Piranesi and
1:45:11
the Dutch artist MC Asher Jackson had the concept artist
1:45:14
Alan Lee take influence from their paintings in designing the
1:45:17
Moria we see in the film in front Walsh Hadley's artwork
1:45:20
blown up and presented it to Jackson as a birthday present.
1:45:24
Lovely. Happy birthday.
1:45:25
He has a terrifying underground city.
1:45:29
I'd love that. You have on your mantelpiece W
1:45:33
you wouldn't. Absolutely, yeah.
1:45:35
But those artists, Pyrenees, he was known for a series called
1:45:37
Imaginary Prisons at the 1700s, right?
1:45:39
If you look at those sketches, it's just like, yeah, Maria, it
1:45:42
looks exactly like it. I'm aware of Asher.
1:45:45
I think there's that's like the bridge very similar to that.
1:45:48
He does those famous like impossible stairway paradoxes.
1:45:51
Yeah, loads of films have taken from those.
1:45:53
Yeah, Asher is amazing. Yeah, The Cave trial that Matt
1:45:55
spoke about was entirely CGI, and the actors weren't fighting
1:45:58
anything on the set. That was created as a clear
1:46:01
model first, and Richard Taylor was concerned with making it
1:46:04
look realistic. That's why it has huge spade
1:46:06
like hands, perfect for digging in a mine.
1:46:09
Jackson's feedback, though, was always to make it look more
1:46:12
sympathetic. He said he wanted The Cave troll
1:46:14
not to be evil, but more like a big stupid kid who's got bad
1:46:17
friends. Yeah, yeah, totally.
1:46:19
Yeah, yeah. Bad mates.
1:46:21
I think that works, yeah. I kind of feel bad for The Cave
1:46:23
for all that big moan that he lets out when he dies.
1:46:27
Yeah, said the rancor. And Return of the Jedi is, yeah.
1:46:30
Yeah, the Trolls clearly like early 2000 CGI, but I think it's
1:46:34
aged quite well. I.
1:46:35
Think yeah. I think it's because of the
1:46:37
personality. Yeah, and probably because the
1:46:39
surroundings are all real. So it's a nice blend, I think,
1:46:41
of techniques. And it's not too bright either,
1:46:43
which I think helps. Yeah, definitely.
1:46:46
So then we'll come into the real problem is if it's not hard
1:46:48
enough, the bowl rug isn't reduced now.
1:46:52
Oh, this thing's unreal. I absolutely love it.
1:46:56
Like just the threat of it, just the look that Lego last gives.
1:46:59
He's just like, right, This is bad news.
1:47:02
Everyone's afraid of this thing. The orcs are running away,
1:47:05
everyone's terrified, and it's just the design on this is
1:47:09
absolutely incredible. Just them cracks in the skin
1:47:11
where you can see the lava underneath, when it breathes
1:47:13
fire, when it just comes out of the fire.
1:47:16
It's just absolutely unbelievable as a bit of design
1:47:19
because you totally buy it. And the fight between Gandalf
1:47:23
and the Balor of the way, he just turns into it and he's just
1:47:25
like, right, You can't come past this point.
1:47:27
He knows he's got to sacrifice himself.
1:47:29
He knows he's not going to make this, but wait for a split
1:47:32
second, just a split second thing.
1:47:34
He's done it. And it's such a beautiful moment
1:47:36
where he just like goes, he's cracked the bridge, it's fallen
1:47:40
down, yes, right. Gandalf's done it.
1:47:42
And then that whip comes up and you go, no, because I love that
1:47:47
line. Fly, you fools, as if get out of
1:47:49
here. You don't say that in the book
1:47:50
as well. Yeah.
1:47:51
Get out of here, this isn't going to end well and from when
1:47:54
he drops this is just absolutely 100% so far up my street it
1:47:59
could be me neighbour's house. It is.
1:48:02
Absolutely perfect. Slow, more shouting, really
1:48:06
dramatic. Big strings, arrows bouncing
1:48:10
everywhere. Aragon looking for loan.
1:48:12
Everyone screaming. What the sound design huge is
1:48:15
just this sense of absolute devastation.
1:48:19
Yeah. And then when they get outside
1:48:20
and you just see everyone is just completely smashed in by
1:48:24
this whole thing. Devastated.
1:48:26
Yeah. And I love Aragon in this moment
1:48:27
as well. He's like, get up, let's go.
1:48:29
Yeah, yeah. That's.
1:48:30
Great. Come on, you know, don't dwell
1:48:31
on it. Stick some ACDC on.
1:48:32
Let's get in the car. He's got that real kind of
1:48:36
leadership quality. And there's that great moment
1:48:38
from Borrow Me as I give them a minute for pity sake.
1:48:40
And he's like, no, we've got to move.
1:48:41
There's no pity involved. It's great that that comes from
1:48:44
Borrow Me as well, isn't it? Humanizes him a bit.
1:48:47
And this bit as well was especially brilliant because the
1:48:49
whole cast were together, but Ian McKellen hadn't arrived in
1:48:52
New Zealand at this point. Right.
1:48:54
So they're all mourning someone who they don't even know what he
1:48:56
looks like is Gandalf. They've never met him.
1:48:59
He wasn't even on set. He hadn't arrived.
1:49:00
So he'd just been cast at this point.
1:49:02
So again, that makes it even more poignant how good these
1:49:05
actors are and how well they played it all out out of
1:49:07
sequence. Right.
1:49:08
Great. Yeah.
1:49:09
I like how at the start they just hear this distant role and
1:49:12
the orcs, goblins all scatter. That's really good.
1:49:14
They're like, no. Never seen the silhouette of the
1:49:18
Balrog. And I think it's pretty funny
1:49:19
where Gandalf, like this fall was beyond any of you, as if
1:49:22
it's going to sort it right out and he just goes run and legs
1:49:26
it. But what a sequence.
1:49:30
What a monster. This is like Jackson and his
1:49:33
blockbuster best, I think. Yeah.
1:49:34
The design of the ball rocks perfect, all shadows and flames.
1:49:37
And when it rolls and we go really close up, that is superb
1:49:41
CGI. Yeah, just that haze, just like
1:49:43
that fire haze, and it kind of rocks the whole air.
1:49:46
Yeah, it's. Awesome.
1:49:46
Yeah, Gandalf. Best moment in the trilogy for
1:49:48
my money. Do you think?
1:49:49
Proper old man badass taking on this huge monster?
1:49:52
Yeah, I love it. It's like your classic way to
1:49:54
end Act 2. Your mental figure gone.
1:49:56
Yeah, George Lucas was frantically taken notes and he
1:49:59
read this. The part of the mind where the
1:50:02
Balrog appears is Dwarrow Delph, a dwarf city.
1:50:05
It was designed by the concept artist Alan Lee and Wetter
1:50:08
Workshop created in CGI based on those designs.
1:50:11
Yeah, I've seen that. You can basically lay the
1:50:13
digital creation for the film on top of what Alan Lee drew, and
1:50:16
it's nigh on like a perfect match.
1:50:18
It's great. Traces.
1:50:19
Yeah, exactly. And Wetter said the Balrog was
1:50:22
one of the most difficult things to create for the trilogy
1:50:25
because Tolkien's descriptions are actually pretty vague.
1:50:28
He just says it's a shadow blacker than black with the main
1:50:31
of fire. Good luck.
1:50:32
Yeah, run rile with that lads, have fun.
1:50:36
Yeah. The first design looked more
1:50:39
humanoid, but then Jackson saw an illustration John Howe had
1:50:42
done of the ball rock and said it should look like that.
1:50:44
The only difference was the added wings for the film.
1:50:47
The animation supervisor was Randall William Cook, and he
1:50:50
said Jackson just told him it needs to be big.
1:50:55
And it is, it is. I know it's CGI, not stop
1:50:57
motion, obviously, but yeah, I think it has rear Howie housing
1:51:00
vibes to it. Definitely.
1:51:01
Maybe just because it's so good. Yeah.
1:51:03
McClellan said he found film in the Bell Road scene one of the
1:51:06
most difficult as he was acting with just a tennis ball to look
1:51:09
at to get the eye line right. Yeah, something he wasn't used
1:51:12
to at all, obviously. And the line in the books is you
1:51:15
cannot pass. Gandalf says that four times.
1:51:18
It was the same in the script, but McClellan changed the final
1:51:21
line to you shall not pass. Instead, Jackson liked it and
1:51:24
kept it in. Yeah, what a change.
1:51:26
It's absolutely awesome. It's.
1:51:28
Huge. It's iconic, isn't it?
1:51:30
Yeah, I'm not reading that in the book as well, before the
1:51:32
film even came out. And even then thinking this is
1:51:35
going to be amazing in the film, this bit.
1:51:37
Yeah, shall not. It's just a lot more powerful.
1:51:39
Yeah, it's just the delivery as well.
1:51:41
It's massive. Yeah, yeah.
1:51:43
Yeah, it's a great line as well. I got goosebumps for that bit,
1:51:46
yeah. Every time and following
1:51:48
Gandalf's going, the rest of the fellowship run from the mine in
1:51:51
a huge staircase collapses. This isn't in the book and in
1:51:55
the original script it just said the fellowship run down the
1:51:57
stairs towards the bridge. Jackson asked Allen Lee to
1:52:00
design the stairs and he came back with this crazy elaborate
1:52:03
staircase that was huge and falling apart and that gave
1:52:06
Jackson the ID to make more of the sequence and have it
1:52:08
collapse as they run down it. And just keep adding to it.
1:52:11
Jackson. Why not it's?
1:52:12
Not big enough as it is, I know. What else could happen with the
1:52:14
collapsing bridge? Let's find out.
1:52:17
And we've made it through the middle and the mines in one
1:52:20
piece. Well, except for the wizard,
1:52:22
obviously. Obviously.
1:52:23
Bray, Rivendell, Moria, losing Gandalf to the Balrog.
1:52:26
There's a lot been going on and we're not doing yet, are we?
1:52:30
Nope. No in here.
1:52:35
The crew. Peter Jackson assembled an
1:52:39
enormous team to help him bring Middle Earth to life, and it's
1:52:42
some of that crew we're talking about.
1:52:43
Now. We're going to be discussing the
1:52:45
music from composer Howard Shaw, and the visuals are supplied by
1:52:48
cinematographer Andrew Leslie and effects studio Wet, our
1:52:51
workshop. But first, it's all about
1:52:53
getting Tolkien's words from page to script, isn't it?
1:52:56
Sure is. So the credited screenwriters on
1:52:59
The Fellowship of the Ring are Fran Walsh, Peter Jackson and
1:53:01
Philippa Boyens husband and wife team.
1:53:04
Walsh and Jackson had been writing a partner since the 80s,
1:53:07
working together on almost all of Jackson's previous films.
1:53:09
Bogans was mostly known for stage plays at the time, and
1:53:12
working on her first screenplay here.
1:53:14
Wow, so more on that shortly. Yeah, but quite the writing room
1:53:17
W 8. How did they handle adopting the
1:53:20
unadaptable? I mean, if this is ever going to
1:53:22
test the marriage, right? You're right.
1:53:26
It's going to be this, isn't it? I mean, the amount of I would
1:53:30
have like agree and and everybody, I mean, without with
1:53:33
no pun intended, but everybody being on the same page and
1:53:36
everybody working towards the same goal.
1:53:38
And it just seems like all three of these guys opinion is in
1:53:42
exactly the same space. It's going in exactly the same
1:53:45
direction. Because I mean, it's really
1:53:47
important to mention he had to have two female writers on this
1:53:50
film because that really shows it shows this heart to it.
1:53:53
It shows an organization to it. It shows an absolute necessary
1:53:58
need for the story not to get overblown out of hand.
1:54:01
It's a it maintains a really human element.
1:54:03
And I think that's really important because Jackson
1:54:06
writing this by himself, I think it would have just been really
1:54:09
over bloated. And, I mean, you know, a lot of
1:54:12
the studios turned down the original draft of the script.
1:54:14
And I would imagine, you know, Fram Walsh had some input into
1:54:17
that. But a lot of that would have
1:54:17
just been Peter Jackson going, this is my Lord of the Rings.
1:54:20
Yeah. And I think what they do is to
1:54:21
stay very, very true to the source material.
1:54:24
But what they'll also do is they'll update it for a modern
1:54:27
audience so they don't make it too confusing.
1:54:29
But at the same time, it's incredibly authentic to that
1:54:31
original material, which is incredibly hard to do.
1:54:34
So for me, I think the writing is next to flawless for how to
1:54:37
adapt a novel, and especially how to adapt 3 novels this
1:54:41
intense with this much history and this much of A fanbase.
1:54:44
I mean, this is a die hard fanbase.
1:54:47
And to have that in the back of your mind, as well as to try and
1:54:50
impress yourself and the other two people you're writing with.
1:54:53
And then to present it to Christopher Lee, who knows Jade
1:54:55
or Token all the way through, to have Ian McKellen come up and
1:54:58
change lines for Jackson. Yes, he does take the lead, but
1:55:01
he's incredibly open to everybody else on that crew.
1:55:04
And you can totally see it. And this is definitely three
1:55:07
people walking in exactly the same direction, stepping in
1:55:10
exactly the same footprints of each other.
1:55:12
It's perfectly done. It's really well measured,
1:55:14
really well balanced and it's just an absolute joy.
1:55:17
Yeah, I mean, what a challenge adapting the Lord of the Rings
1:55:20
trilogy all in one go. I mean, mad not just because of
1:55:24
the status of the books. Legendary novels with a
1:55:26
worldwide fan base, which brings the pressure of its own, you're
1:55:29
right. But also I've read the trilogy
1:55:31
and it's absolutely enormous and they've changed a fair bit.
1:55:35
But in my opinion, I think it's a really good and pretty
1:55:38
faithful adaptation, right? I think the overall plotting
1:55:41
across the whole trilogy is excellent.
1:55:43
It's a superb story and it does feel like, well, how could this
1:55:46
be any different? Like great stories often do, the
1:55:49
plot comes almost entirely from talking, obviously.
1:55:52
But the changes the writers here have made are all for good
1:55:54
reasons and all the right choices for me.
1:55:57
Yeah, Yeah. These facials are podcasts
1:55:58
called All the Right Choices. They really should.
1:56:03
We talked about the Council of L1 scene changing a law it had
1:56:05
to Gandalf banging on for 45 minutes.
1:56:08
It's obviously a no go. Yeah, they are the changes they
1:56:11
made as well. Some we'll talk about shortly
1:56:13
and some come in the other books and we'll save those for those
1:56:15
episodes. But what I find impressive is
1:56:17
how few complaints I've seen from original Tolkien fans.
1:56:21
Yeah, yeah, obviously there's some.
1:56:22
It's the edge of the Internet, but far less than you'd expect
1:56:25
from a passionate fandoms. Yeah.
1:56:27
So I think that shows how good a job they did of capturing like
1:56:29
the spirit of Tolkens work and the tone of the books.
1:56:32
I mean there's a mountain of exposition need to feed us and
1:56:35
that's handled really well. The prologue that we talked
1:56:37
about that does some of it and then Gandalf delivers a lot of
1:56:40
the rest, which works because he's wise and like 2000 years
1:56:44
old. I think those scenes where he'd
1:56:46
explain the power of the ring to fraud would back end.
1:56:48
There's some of the best moments in the film for me.
1:56:51
And like we've said, Once Upon a time adapting Lord of the Rings
1:56:53
was considered impossible. Peter Jackson proved that wrong
1:56:56
with these films and I think the screenplay is gave him and the
1:56:59
crew a great platform to work with once they got to New
1:57:02
Zealand. Yeah, I think it's the writing
1:57:04
from three people who really and truly understand these novels
1:57:07
because we've all seen adaptations of various books in
1:57:10
the past where they've understood what the highlights
1:57:13
are, but that's all. Yeah, but the right knee
1:57:15
understands the mythology because in the wrong hands, this
1:57:18
could be like the Cliff Notes version of Lord of the Rings,
1:57:21
and it's anything but. But at the same time, they
1:57:23
realize it's still got to work as a piece of cinema for people
1:57:25
who don't know the books. And they might have to make
1:57:27
choices like you're saying, John, which would anger the
1:57:30
hardcore talking fans. So, you know, sorry Tom
1:57:32
Bomberdale fans, but there's just no room for your boy here.
1:57:35
He doesn't work. And I think they know that.
1:57:37
And the kind of like, well that's fine.
1:57:39
And it makes the book it's own thing still.
1:57:41
It's not taking anything away from it.
1:57:42
It's it's almost like a companion piece at the same
1:57:44
time. Yeah, it is it.
1:57:46
It's like understanding Arwen has to have a bigger presence,
1:57:49
otherwise the end of Return of the King is really confusing.
1:57:52
Like who's that? Who's who's that he's getting
1:57:54
married to? The know that cinematically,
1:57:56
some events in the Two toes that have to be brought back to
1:57:59
happen in Fellowship, for example.
1:58:01
And an awful lot of people. The Comic Relief you get with
1:58:04
Gimli is a bit much, and it is a bit much of times for me.
1:58:06
But at the same time, you understand they've got to
1:58:08
humanize these characters a bit because I since went and read
1:58:11
the books. This could be a very, very dry
1:58:13
adaptation. It's not big on humor
1:58:16
necessarily. So what they've done is they've
1:58:18
produced something that for the most part satisfies most fans of
1:58:21
the book, but also works as an introduction to this world for
1:58:24
novice like I was back then. And I think that's such an
1:58:26
incredibly difficult balance to pull off, but that absolutely do
1:58:30
so. Yeah, because nowadays when you
1:58:31
read a book, you can often see the writers gotten half an eye
1:58:34
on the adaptation coming up talking.
1:58:36
That's not the case at all. Definitely not.
1:58:38
He's writing an epic piece of literature and that's his goal.
1:58:41
And so there has to be concessions made of that, I
1:58:43
think once you come to make a film from it.
1:58:45
Yeah, definitely. After the success of The Hobbit
1:58:47
in 19, 37 Talking's publishers Alan and Unwin wanted a sequel.
1:58:52
Talking wanted to get more into the mythology of Middle Earth,
1:58:54
so took it on. He took inspiration from Norse
1:58:57
mythology, Anglo-Saxon literature and Old English epic
1:59:01
poem Beowulf, and his own experience is actually in World
1:59:04
War One and eventually produced The Lord of the Rings, which
1:59:07
published in 1954. I love that his publishers ask
1:59:10
him for a nice sequel to his small children's book. 15 years
1:59:13
later, he turns up with this. Yeah, you go boom on the desk.
1:59:18
Yeah. But yeah, in Beowulf the word
1:59:20
orchnias is used to refer to a type of monster, so Tolkien
1:59:23
adopted that to orcs. Right.
1:59:25
And now orcs are like a staple of fantasy.
1:59:27
I think. Yeah, definitely yeah.
1:59:29
Orcs are in Warhammer 40,000 on the Westie.
1:59:31
And Warhammer Fantasy Battle, yeah.
1:59:32
Orcs with guns in that case. Space Orcs are in Warhammer
1:59:35
40,000, but we're not getting to it.
1:59:37
It's fine. So Jackson and Fran Walsh first
1:59:40
started adopting the books in 1997 when Miramax were involved.
1:59:44
Jackson said they broke down the three books into a 90 page
1:59:46
treatment which made it obvious and they needed some help.
1:59:49
So Jackson brought in Stephen Sinclair, who we'd written with
1:59:53
or Meet the Feebles and Brain Dead.
1:59:54
But Sinclair only worked on the film for a few weeks.
1:59:57
He isn't credited for Fellowship of the Ring, but he is for the
2:00:00
2000 Return of the King. But maybe the most notable role
2:00:03
he played here is that his girlfriend at the time was a
2:00:05
huge talking fan and she helped him with some of the dialogue.
2:00:08
And this was Philippa Boyens. So after Sinclair left the
2:00:11
project, Jackson kept her on as his Morse's Co writer.
2:00:15
There was another notable person that Stephen Sinclair brought in
2:00:18
as well, Thistle Door. It's played by Harry Sinclair,
2:00:21
Stevens brother. All right.
2:00:23
Yeah, it's all his fault. It is all his fault.
2:00:26
Yeah. Greedy swine.
2:00:29
But having a feel about Boyens was such a great choice.
2:00:31
I could have just went and got a great established screenwriter
2:00:33
and said, right, go read the book, see you in a month.
2:00:36
Yeah, they would have done it, but they wouldn't have known it
2:00:38
inside out like Boyens does. And that comes across.
2:00:41
It feels like a fully fleshed out world, partly because of the
2:00:43
little details that drop in here and there.
2:00:45
And a lot of that, I think, must have came from her.
2:00:48
I think so, yeah. Now, the editor was John
2:00:50
Gilbert, and he said the script was being rewritten constantly
2:00:53
throughout the production. This seems to be an ongoing
2:00:54
theme, mostly from interactions the writers would have with the
2:00:58
cast. And Ian McKellen said that
2:01:00
Jackson had loads of copies of the book littered around the
2:01:02
sets so people could pick them up and read certain scenes if
2:01:05
they wanted some inspiration. Wow, yeah, Fran Walsh said that
2:01:08
they were changing the script so much on the set.
2:01:10
It felt like they were on a train laying the tracks in front
2:01:13
of them as it moved forward. Yeah, yeah, yeah, well, I have
2:01:15
your wrong trousers. Like grommet in the wrong
2:01:17
trousers. And they tried that super quick.
2:01:21
I was. Trying to take away.
2:01:22
I'd seen that before and that's definitely it now.
2:01:23
I was singing like Wiley Coyote or something, but yeah.
2:01:27
And John Gilbert, you mentioned there the editor, Jackson gave
2:01:29
him 2,000,000 feet of footage to work with that to production
2:01:33
sort that out. Yeah.
2:01:36
And we've mentioned Golf Findl changed in the Arwen, but some
2:01:39
of the characters were left out from the books as well.
2:01:41
Just after leaving the Shire, the four hobbits are captured by
2:01:43
an undead spirit called a Bow White, and it's about to kill
2:01:47
them when they're rescued by Tom Bombardil.
2:01:49
Tolkie never explains who he is other than that he's ancient and
2:01:52
the writers left him out as they thought that storyline just
2:01:55
wasn't important to the main plot.
2:01:56
Yeah, the right choice, I think. Yeah, he turned up singing and
2:02:00
skipping about in the book, from what I remember, which wouldn't
2:02:02
be ludicrous. Yeah, at that.
2:02:04
Point. You'd always expect to see more
2:02:07
of that guy. He would make a massive impact
2:02:09
and you'd think, well, when's he going to turn back up?
2:02:10
But. Yeah, exactly you would.
2:02:12
It's just that one scene, isn't it?
2:02:13
And in the book there's a fifth Hobbit, Fredegar.
2:02:16
Fatty Baldre is part of Frodo's Circle and helps the hobbits
2:02:19
leave the Shire, and he even has a brief face off with the Nazgal
2:02:22
when they show up. Yeah, we're seeing him very
2:02:24
briefly in the film when Billbo's listing Hobbit
2:02:27
families. He shouted bulges and we cut to
2:02:29
their table where there's a chubby chap sitting there.
2:02:32
That's funny. Right.
2:02:33
OK, so before we finish with the screenwriters, we have another
2:02:36
ATRM patron question, this time from Lou Pellegrino.
2:02:40
Hello, Lou. Hello, Lou.
2:02:41
And Lou asks. I'm often disappointed when
2:02:44
books that I love are made into movies because of the changes
2:02:46
that are almost always made to the stories.
2:02:48
Do you think it's fair to judge a film based on how closely it
2:02:51
sticks to its source material? Is this something you do when
2:02:54
evaluating films? So what do you think, Westie?
2:02:58
Depends how much I like the source material and how
2:03:00
connected I am to it. That's a massive thing for me.
2:03:02
But I'll try to view it as an interpretation because what
2:03:05
works in a book doesn't necessarily work on screen.
2:03:07
I mean, we've talked about them. You know when the ring wreaths
2:03:10
come after the hobbits and they're stabbing them in the bed
2:03:12
and there's that kind of rug pull that Matt mentioned, But
2:03:14
you can't do that in the book. No.
2:03:16
What a lot of people do is to create their own movie in the
2:03:18
head, and they have their interpretation of that.
2:03:21
But I think, you know, we've got to take a step back and say,
2:03:24
well, somebody's got to interpret this written word and
2:03:26
it can be interpreted a million different ways.
2:03:29
People can look a certain way, act a certain way.
2:03:31
I didn't expect them to look like that.
2:03:32
I didn't expect this. Then.
2:03:34
I think you've just got too much of a hold over what you wanted,
2:03:36
personally, and I don't think that's ever going to happen.
2:03:38
So I try not to do that. There's times when I've been
2:03:40
pleasantly surprised. I mean, if anyone's going to say
2:03:42
what's the most authentic transfer from page to screen,
2:03:45
you're going to have to say Lord of the Rings is in the
2:03:47
conversation, if not in the top three, easily.
2:03:49
But the few that I've been pleasantly surprised with has
2:03:51
been like Mystic River is it was very, very close.
2:03:55
The road was very, very close. Yeah.
2:03:58
Perfect. Yeah.
2:03:59
I mean, that is just visual poetry.
2:04:01
The Green Mile for me, I think was perfectly cast and perfectly
2:04:03
done. I think that was a really good
2:04:05
adaptation of the Stephen King novel.
2:04:06
So it just depends if it if it fits in with your vision as
2:04:09
you're reading it, it's a real bonus.
2:04:12
But if you expect it to, I think you're going to be disappointed.
2:04:15
Yeah, same for me, really. I think it's perfectly fair.
2:04:17
So you don't like a film if it's strays from the source?
2:04:19
I mean, that's your opinion. And if you love the book, most
2:04:22
want to see on the screen what they already like.
2:04:24
But more objectively, changes can be done for good reason.
2:04:27
It's a different medium, so changes are often made to make
2:04:30
something more visual. Or novels are usually longer
2:04:33
than screenplays, so some things just have to come out.
2:04:36
Yeah. Films to do this for the better
2:04:37
for me are The Godfather, Jaws. Definitely, definitely.
2:04:41
Adaptations I'm often most impressed by are films that
2:04:43
represent the source well in terms of the narrative and the
2:04:46
torn and the characters. But they do make some changes,
2:04:49
and when they do, you can see why.
2:04:51
Yeah. And from that, I think Lord of
2:04:52
the Rings is a very good application.
2:04:54
They've made some changes, but leaving out Tom Bombardil was
2:04:57
the right choice for me. Yeah.
2:04:58
Giving our go on a reluctant King Ark was definitely the
2:05:01
right choice, Definitely. So I'd say no, I don't judge a
2:05:03
film on how closely it sticks to the original, but more on how
2:05:06
they translate it to be visual and into a story that works on
2:05:10
the big screen. Yeah, definitely.
2:05:12
Yeah, very much an agreement. I think you're just talking
2:05:14
about two completely different art forms and that's how you got
2:05:16
a report because literary devices that work brilliantly on
2:05:20
the page don't necessarily translate well to the screen at
2:05:23
all. Like first person in the head,
2:05:25
how do you put that on screen? You've got to change it.
2:05:27
And I think also you've got to respect an artist's right to put
2:05:30
their stamp and interpretation on material and the way that
2:05:33
they see fit. The thing that caveat to that is
2:05:36
if that adaptation doesn't work for whatever reason, I think it
2:05:39
just becomes the easiest stick to beat it with or it didn't
2:05:42
work because it doesn't have this stuff.
2:05:44
And the other from the book. Biggest example for me is the
2:05:47
Shiner. I mean, famously we all know
2:05:49
Stephen King hates that because he's got a very strong emotional
2:05:52
connection to the story that he wrote.
2:05:55
But Cubic just saw that material in a very different way and put
2:05:58
his own stamp on it and in the opinion of most people, produced
2:06:02
a horror masterpiece in doing so.
2:06:04
Which means the changes he made, and I love the book and it is
2:06:07
very different. I don't mind the changes
2:06:09
whatsoever because the film is brilliant in itself.
2:06:12
If he'd messed it up it would be a different story though.
2:06:15
Yeah, like the TV movie of The Shining.
2:06:17
Like the TV movie of The Shining?
2:06:19
Exactly. Yeah.
2:06:19
That sticks more closely I think, doesn't it?
2:06:21
Yeah. It sticks way too close.
2:06:23
Far too close. Yeah, hedge animals and
2:06:25
everything. Yeah, crap.
2:06:30
For their work adapting The Fellowship of the Ring, Peter
2:06:32
Jackson, Fran Walsh and Philippa Boyens were nominated for Best
2:06:35
Adapted Screenplay at the Oscars.
2:06:36
They lost out to a Kiva Goldsman for A Beautiful Mind.
2:06:40
It swept that year, didn't it? Beautiful mind.
2:06:42
Did, yeah. Yeah, but for us, in achieving
2:06:44
what was previously thought impossible, making Talking
2:06:46
Cinematic a very good adaptation by the team here.
2:06:50
Yeah. I don't think it could be any
2:06:51
better if I'm honest. No, I don't know how they
2:06:53
started, to be honest. I.
2:06:54
Don't know how they finished it. I don't know how they did the
2:06:55
middle. I don't know how they did any of
2:06:56
it. Continuing our own epic journey
2:07:02
through the crew and we're onto the music.
2:07:04
The composer on The Fellowship of the Ring was Howard Shaw.
2:07:07
Yeah, this was his 58th film score, having created music for
2:07:10
David Cronenberg films like The Fly in Videodrome, as well as
2:07:14
scoring The Silence of the Lambs, 7, Mrs. Doubtfire,
2:07:17
Westie, Lovely and The Classics. Help is on the way dear.
2:07:24
So Pippen. Second breakfast.
2:07:29
He a veteran composer, but his first epic fantasy Matt How was
2:07:33
Howard Shaw's work on Lord of the Rings?
2:07:35
It's just such an utter feast of music, but at the same time,
2:07:39
it's never overpowering, despite how bombastic it gets.
2:07:43
There's never a sense that there's too much going on with
2:07:45
the music. And he, oh, just rein it back a
2:07:48
bit. You never think that.
2:07:49
It reminds me when we talk about John Williams and we've all said
2:07:52
the genius of him is you give him a brief and he knows what
2:07:55
that brief should sound like. As soon as he he would, you go,
2:07:58
of course that of course. That's what a theme tune for a
2:08:01
dinosaur film should feel like. And I feel the same about Shaw's
2:08:05
worker. You know, what does the music of
2:08:07
the Ring sound like? Yeah.
2:08:08
And then you get that slow string solo, really sinister but
2:08:12
seductive at the same time. You go, well, of course, what
2:08:14
else would it sound like? Yeah.
2:08:15
What does Hobbit didn't sound like?
2:08:17
And then you get that cheery, kind of teeny, you can imagine
2:08:19
the actual hobbits home and every day and you go, yeah, of
2:08:22
course that's the Hobbiton thing.
2:08:24
And then the thing for the Fellowship itself, which is the
2:08:26
most monumental coming together, dramatic part of the film.
2:08:30
How do you sum that up? And then he gives you the theme
2:08:32
for the Fellowship, and you go, that is perfect.
2:08:35
Yeah. And not to me.
2:08:36
It's just the soundtrack. It is perfect.
2:08:38
And how all of them themes intertwine as well isn't.
2:08:40
Exactly. I think it's become pretty
2:08:42
iconic, the music, hasn't it? Oh, yeah.
2:08:44
I think most people recognize that main theme, but there's
2:08:47
other stuff going on as well. I like the upbeat, kind of forky
2:08:50
dance music we hear at Billboards Party where all the
2:08:52
hobbits are prancing about. Yeah, Yeah.
2:08:54
So the quality is there. But I think what I may be most
2:08:56
impressed by is how Howard Shaw created what must be one of the
2:08:59
most comprehensive film scores ever.
2:09:02
Yeah, there's like, 13 hours of music across the trilogy.
2:09:05
The Beatles only made 10 hours of music.
2:09:07
Lazy. There must be close to 100 light
2:09:12
motifs. We've got different themes for
2:09:13
characters, for races, for places, objects like the ring,
2:09:17
and they do all interweave as well.
2:09:19
So it's really complex. And my favorites are mostly the
2:09:22
secondary pieces. The nazgal theme I mentioned.
2:09:24
I love the elves theme. That, like, ethereal female
2:09:27
choir. That's stunning.
2:09:28
It's a score that doesn't just, like, accompany the film.
2:09:31
It's literally part of the storytelling.
2:09:32
It is, yeah. And in the story, this epic,
2:09:35
that is not easy at all to pull off.
2:09:37
But I think Howard sure did it. It's just amazing.
2:09:40
It's utterly incredible. But the thing I completely love
2:09:43
about this soundtrack is it's so unique.
2:09:46
It is very much like a John Williams soundtrack, Yeah, in
2:09:49
that you cannot put this on anything else.
2:09:51
You know, you get some, especially Hans Zimmer, and you
2:09:54
get bits of his music and it's recycled in another film and you
2:09:57
kind of go, all right, there you go.
2:09:59
Yeah, that makes sense. There's other bits that you hear
2:10:01
and it just seems more universal.
2:10:03
This is just unique. You try taking any of these
2:10:06
themes and stick them on a love scene or stick them on a
2:10:09
somebody die and scene and a different film that's just come
2:10:11
out next year. It's not not Lord of the Rings,
2:10:13
no, not going to work, doesn't happen, doesn't belong to
2:10:16
anybody else. It's as well thought through the
2:10:18
performances. And what he does is he
2:10:19
translates feelings so beautifully into music, but
2:10:23
music that I hadn't really heard before.
2:10:25
It seems like all the instruments that he used in this
2:10:28
soundtrack were from Middle Earth.
2:10:30
Yeah, that's the idea, I think. Yeah, yeah.
2:10:32
But it doesn't feel like all that's a violin or that's just a
2:10:35
bass or that's just a cello. It feels like, well, these
2:10:38
instruments aren't being used by anybody else.
2:10:40
Yeah, it was like that when I was a kid.
2:10:41
I first heard Iron Maiden, and I thought, well, they're not
2:10:43
playing chords that everybody else plays.
2:10:45
They own their own chords. I like when you hear The Beatles
2:10:47
and you go like, well, they own that chord progression.
2:10:49
Nobody else does. Yeah.
2:10:51
Yeah, and I just love how each scene just melts into the next
2:10:55
one because the music just carries you through just this
2:10:57
beautiful river of melody. It makes you feel terrified, it
2:11:00
makes you feel happy, it makes you feel sad.
2:11:03
But at the same time you don't go.
2:11:04
Oh well, that's just because of the music.
2:11:05
It because it totally marries everything together.
2:11:08
It's incredible. Yeah, very rich, isn't it?
2:11:11
The way that all blends into one time.
2:11:13
It's just so clever without being pretentious.
2:11:16
It is. But the first person Jackson
2:11:18
contacted about composed the music was actually James Horner,
2:11:21
but his daughter had recently undergone surgery though, so he
2:11:24
turned it down. Wycheck Keeler, a Polish
2:11:26
composer who would worked on Bram Stroke as Dracula and The
2:11:29
Truman Show was considered. But about two months into
2:11:32
production, Jackson and John Gilbert were cutting some scenes
2:11:35
together for a special Christmas screening for the crew, and as
2:11:37
temp music, they used Howard Shaw's music from The Fly and
2:11:40
Crash. And Jackson thought it just
2:11:42
worked perfectly, so in early 2000 called Shore Up and offered
2:11:45
him the job. Lovely Jackson said that Shaw's
2:11:47
music had a dog beauty to it that you liked.
2:11:50
I think you can see why the thought of Horn first door.
2:11:52
Oh, definitely, yeah. Yeah, Braveheart, obviously,
2:11:54
Yeah. And the pipes here are
2:11:56
reminiscent of Titanic at times, I think.
2:11:58
Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. Said that.
2:11:59
He wasn't immediately interested, but Jackson flew him
2:12:01
out in New Zealand and as soon as he saw the production he was
2:12:04
just like, yeah, fair. Enough.
2:12:06
Like, how else do you convince someone to do that?
2:12:08
Do you fancy making 15 hours worth of epic scores at all?
2:12:12
If it's fine, Not really, no. I think I'll just stick sit here
2:12:16
and have second breakfast. But that's Jackson's ace up his
2:12:19
sleeve every time, isn't it? Just get them out here, yeah?
2:12:22
Get them out. Look at this.
2:12:24
Shaw said he spent four months researching before he wrote a
2:12:27
note. He reread the books and every
2:12:29
other Middle Earth novel available in four months, Took
2:12:32
me about four years. And he studied the languages
2:12:35
taught and created like Quenya, which was Elvish, and Black
2:12:39
Speech, the model language, so he could write choir music sung
2:12:42
in those languages. And where a composer's work on a
2:12:44
film is typically around 8 weeks, Shaw spent nearly four
2:12:48
years on Lord of the Rings. Wowed.
2:12:50
I mean his attention to details there in the compositions as
2:12:52
well. The main melody in the
2:12:54
fellowship theme, the famous one has 9 notes to represent the
2:12:57
nine members of the fellowship. Get out.
2:13:01
Love it when I compose. I'll do that.
2:13:02
Oh yeah, I love it when we find out about him.
2:13:04
I tell the world it's like, that's how good this is.
2:13:06
Yeah, it's just amazing. And he said he took inspiration
2:13:09
from classical composers like Shostakovich, Rachmaninoff,
2:13:13
Pokolfiev and Brahms. His biggest influence though?
2:13:16
Richard Wagner's Ring Cycle, a series of four operas which was
2:13:20
finished in 1874. He said the idea of having a
2:13:22
huge network of leak motifs that are interconnected came from the
2:13:26
Ring Cycle. It worked.
2:13:27
The Ring cycle is also about the supernatural ring.
2:13:29
Although talking you said there was no connection.
2:13:32
And do you know right of the Valkyries from Apocalypse Now?
2:13:35
Certainly, yeah. That's from the ring cycle.
2:13:37
All right, OK, he's buying that tomorrow.
2:13:41
One of Jackson's briefs to show was that you wanted an
2:13:44
otherworldly song with words sung by a woman to play over the
2:13:47
end credits. Shaw said the best person to
2:13:50
write that wasn't him. And he said he should ask the
2:13:52
Irish singer Enya. So Enya wrote an original song
2:13:55
called May It Be with her lyricist Roma Ryan.
2:13:58
It plays over the end credits and is sung by Enya, in part
2:14:01
English, in part Quenya. Lovely, lovely.
2:14:03
It's got this real downbeat feel to it, I think, but it is kind
2:14:06
of full of hope as well, so it's perfect for the end credits.
2:14:09
Yeah, great fits for the end. Yeah, it's.
2:14:11
Beautiful stuff, yeah. Enya also wrote an Iran, which
2:14:14
is the Aragorn and Arwen love theme.
2:14:16
A Rivendell right right slots in nicely as well.
2:14:19
It does yeah. For their work on The Fellowship
2:14:20
of the Ring, Howard Shaw and Enya were both Oscar nominated
2:14:23
for Best Score and Best Original Song.
2:14:26
And You lost Out to If I Didn't Have You from Monsters, Inc by
2:14:29
Randy Newman. All right.
2:14:30
OK, which is a banger. It is a banger, yeah.
2:14:33
How I showed all 1. He beat our Randy Newman and for
2:14:36
a beautiful mind, James Horner. Right?
2:14:38
Wonderful stuff. Horner had time to do that one.
2:14:41
Well, of course he had time to do that one.
2:14:43
It wasn't four years of the project.
2:14:45
Probably didn't have to outcompose The Beatles to be
2:14:47
fair. No, exactly.
2:14:48
I think we had a lot lying around for A Beautiful mind.
2:14:50
Just put that in there. What's this about maths?
2:14:52
That's fine, I can do that. Yeah, yeah.
2:14:54
Algebra. It's fine.
2:14:56
And for us from Howard Shaw, an epic film and he produced an
2:15:00
epic score. Oh.
2:15:00
It's unbelievable. Yeah, certainly did.
2:15:05
We've covered how The Fellowship of the Ring reads and sounds.
2:15:08
How about how it looks? We're about to find out if we
2:15:10
talk the cinematography and visual effects on the film.
2:15:13
The director of photography was Andrew Lesnie, and the primary
2:15:16
effects studio was wet. Our workshop headed by Richard
2:15:19
Taylor. Yeah.
2:15:20
So the visuals of The Fellowship of the Ring, you want to start
2:15:22
us off on the cinematography, Wesley?
2:15:24
How long have you got? It's an incredible, incredible
2:15:29
feat to do this and have such a control, I guess, over
2:15:33
everything and just to maintain that visual aesthetic that it
2:15:36
has. And I don't think it looks like
2:15:38
anything else, and I don't think anything else looks quite like
2:15:41
it. This is shot Super 35, so it's
2:15:44
going to be printed nicer for a wide screen.
2:15:46
So it's a bit more of a flatter image.
2:15:48
And it was integral to the use of the digital intermediate.
2:15:52
So the DI was basically what would happen is they'd scan the
2:15:54
film and then they'd use digital technology to grade it, to
2:15:58
colour grade it. So then basically they would
2:16:00
take that negative, put it through a computer and then
2:16:02
created the first person to do that was deacons.
2:16:04
And he did that on Oh, brother where art though, to give it
2:16:07
that look, right. But this was absolutely integral
2:16:10
to the DI work. And some of the DI work on here
2:16:12
is absolutely unbelievable. And the way that the user as
2:16:15
well is so subtle and so brilliant that everything
2:16:18
matches over 15 months of shooting.
2:16:20
When Boromir dies throughout that sequence, the drain the
2:16:24
colour from his face. Right.
2:16:26
And it goes more grey, and it's actually grey when he dies and
2:16:30
his lips go blue. Right.
2:16:31
It's astonishing. Watch it again, because you just
2:16:33
don't quite know you're seeing it.
2:16:34
And that's what makes that really hit home.
2:16:36
Because he's like slowly dying in front of Aragon, right?
2:16:40
But little things like that, that's what you use ADI for.
2:16:42
That's what you use this technology for.
2:16:44
And this is absolutely instrumental.
2:16:45
And what I want is mentioned at this point.
2:16:47
As well as that there were other DPS because every crew needs ADP
2:16:51
when they're shooting action sequences, stunt sequences, the
2:16:53
second, third, fourth cruise on this.
2:16:55
So what I'd like to do is give a shout out to all MDPS because I
2:16:58
think they they need that because it's incredible work
2:17:00
across the board. Let's do it.
2:17:01
So there's Alan Bollinger, Richard Bloke, Alan Gilsford,
2:17:05
Simon Raby, Nigel Bloke and Peter Cavill and all them guys
2:17:08
are absolutely integral to the maintain and this visual
2:17:11
aesthetic and this beautiful, beautiful film and this whole
2:17:15
thing that we call Lord of the Rings, to shoot this on film as
2:17:17
well, it's just incredible. The helicopter shots, the aerial
2:17:20
shots, the landscape photography is just absolutely outstanding.
2:17:23
It's ridiculous. Yeah, it's just absolutely magic
2:17:26
to watch. Yeah, I mean, you know more than
2:17:28
me, Westy, obviously, but this seems like a DP's dream job.
2:17:31
Yeah, the mix of environments lends itself to great
2:17:34
cinematography. We go from like the greenery of
2:17:37
the Shire, through the waters of Rivendale, the Snowy Mountains,
2:17:40
the mines and then the darkness of Mordor, all filmed in this
2:17:44
stunning location in New Zealand.
2:17:45
If you're filming that and it doesn't look great, you're
2:17:47
probably not getting into the Hollywood gig.
2:17:49
Yeah. I mean, you are getting a little
2:17:50
bit of a leg up with what you've got in front of the lens, but at
2:17:53
the same time, you know, you've got to have such a control over
2:17:55
all of these and what you've said there with all them
2:17:57
different environments and then making it look like the same
2:17:59
film. Yeah, Yeah.
2:18:00
That's incredibly, incredibly challenging.
2:18:03
It does look great and a lot that is obviously down to Andrew
2:18:05
Lesnie. I think there's a visual
2:18:07
language he uses where the shires are like warm golden
2:18:10
sunlight. Seems like a lot of handheld
2:18:12
stuff. Yeah, yeah.
2:18:13
Gives it a very organic, homely kind of feel.
2:18:15
And then Rivendell to reflect the elves, that seems to have
2:18:18
much cooler lighting and there seems to be quite a bit of
2:18:20
Steadicam, I guess to give the visuals this kind of ethereal.
2:18:24
Yeah, it's a steadier kind of vibe.
2:18:26
With really clever and then Mordor's or sharp angles and
2:18:28
harsh contrasts in the lighting. Yeah.
2:18:30
Mordor reminds me of the Nightmare Before Christmas.
2:18:33
Obviously terrifying. Yeah.
2:18:35
Yeah. I think the most famous shot or
2:18:37
the most seen shot might be the one of the Fellowship walking
2:18:39
over the hilltop after leaving Rivendale, where they come into
2:18:42
frame one by one. It became iconic.
2:18:44
But my favorite shots are mostly of the Naz goal.
2:18:47
Like I said, the colours and the lighting and the composition,
2:18:50
Whenever they're in frame, it's usually brilliant.
2:18:52
Yeah. And like we said, they had 9
2:18:54
units filming at the same time. So a massive operational job for
2:18:58
Leslie to get them all working as one.
2:19:00
Yeah. I mean, the main thing is to
2:19:01
pull off Peter Jackson's vision. It was essential.
2:19:04
The Middle Earth looks great, and it obviously does.
2:19:06
Yeah. And Andrew Leslie, a huge part
2:19:08
of it, Yeah. Well, Jackson had not only not
2:19:11
worked with Lesnie before, Lord of the Rings had never even
2:19:14
actually met, but in 1995 Lesnie had shot Babe and Jackson Neda
2:19:18
said he loved how Lesnie had used backlight and not the light
2:19:21
to create a magical effect. So when Jackson was hiring for
2:19:24
Lord of the Rings, he knew he wanted either an Australian or
2:19:27
New Zealand DP as they'd be more used to his way of working, and
2:19:30
immediately thought of Lesnie, who is Australian.
2:19:33
That'll do, Andrew. That'll do that's.
2:19:36
What Jackson said at the end. To coordinate the 9 filming
2:19:40
units, Leslie came up with a system he called the Notebook
2:19:43
Club. This was a system where the
2:19:44
camera operators would log information and things they'd
2:19:47
found out on a daily basis. The other units would have
2:19:49
access to this and review it every day.
2:19:51
So when one unit learns something, they all learn
2:19:53
something. Yeah, it's like a huge
2:19:55
cinematography database, it sounds like.
2:19:57
Yeah, I love that. I need access to that.
2:19:59
Yeah, get that on the PDF. Exactly 21 cameras across 9
2:20:06
units. Apparently that's what he had to
2:20:07
coordinate. At least half his job.
2:20:09
Must have been planning, surely? Yeah, yeah, I would have thought
2:20:11
so, yeah. And the notebook club does
2:20:13
definitely sound like something I would Deadpool Society
2:20:16
standing on the desks. Yeah, yeah.
2:20:18
And Leslie was often using the concept art as inspiration.
2:20:21
Alan Lee and John Howe were the two most renowned Tolkien
2:20:24
illustrators in the world at the time, and when writing the
2:20:27
script, Jackson had their illustrations pinned up all over
2:20:29
his office, so he wanted them to design parts of the film.
2:20:32
Nice. So Jackson then sent a
2:20:34
handwritten letter to Alan Lee in Dartmuer, England, asking him
2:20:37
if he was interested. Lee read the letter.
2:20:39
Called him straight away to say yes.
2:20:41
Well, you would, wouldn't you? Yeah.
2:20:43
So he designed Rivendale lies and guard bag ends and more as
2:20:46
well. John How, though he was living
2:20:49
in Switzerland at the time and not knowing the time differences
2:20:52
between Switzerland and New Zealand, Jackson called him at
2:20:55
about 3:00 AM to offer him the role.
2:20:57
He said yes and designed Mordor with the top Gladules, village
2:21:00
loft, Laurian and lots more. Just did that that night.
2:21:03
Just woke up and get all that. Well, I'm up now as well.
2:21:06
Really excited. I'm already halfway through Loft
2:21:09
Laurian so. Didn't even go to sleep.
2:21:13
He said that on that call, Jackson rambled on for like 15
2:21:15
minutes about what his vision was for the film and how said I
2:21:19
was just waiting for him to shut up so I could say yes.
2:21:21
Yeah, right. Nice.
2:21:22
The easiest sell ever to these two guys, surely?
2:21:24
Yeah, definitely. Yeah, New Zealand, not required.
2:21:28
The visuals aren't all about the cinematography and concept are,
2:21:31
though. We went our workshop sort of
2:21:32
that, didn't it? Certainly did.
2:21:34
The effects work was so massive we can't fit it all in one
2:21:37
episode. So again, we've mapped it out
2:21:39
like our own notebook club. Digital effects work will come
2:21:42
in later episodes, and for Fellowship we're talking good
2:21:44
old fashioned practical effects work.
2:21:46
Yeah, nice. So how was it?
2:21:48
It feels like it's the heart of the film and everything else
2:21:51
spins off from it because when this comes out, we've got the
2:21:54
Star Wars pregals at the same time and because there was so
2:21:56
much CJ or for Kelly in those, they all felt very lightweight
2:22:00
and see through nothing tangible to them.
2:22:02
This thought because of the reliance of practical effect, it
2:22:05
has a heft to it and a believability to it.
2:22:07
It does like that shot where the camera spins down from the top
2:22:11
of Orthank into the mines where Saruman is making weapons and
2:22:14
creating the Eric High. Incredible it.
2:22:17
And it only works because Orthank feels tactile with that
2:22:20
sense of how massive it is and it's an actual place and it's a
2:22:23
combination of the two that works so well for me, you know,
2:22:26
looking forward. But you know, the siege of Helms
2:22:28
Deep feels incredible because it was physically there and even
2:22:31
going bigger at the battle of Pelanor fields in Return of the
2:22:33
King. Obviously more CGI there, but
2:22:35
it's fine because everything before it's been grounded in the
2:22:38
practical effects 1st and everything else was built on top
2:22:41
of them. Yeah, I mean the practical
2:22:43
effects work. It's jaw-dropping stuff from
2:22:45
weather. Yeah, enormous miniatures, scale
2:22:47
models of like Orthank, Moria, Mordor and the rest.
2:22:51
The prosthetics work across the hobbits, the orcs and the elves,
2:22:54
the Urukai, it's incredible. And the props that produce
2:22:58
48,000 pieces of armour, 10,000 arrows, 10,000 orchids.
2:23:02
And that's genuinely only scratching the surface of what
2:23:05
they did. Yeah.
2:23:05
The production, just from an effect point of view, was
2:23:08
enormous. And most importantly, it all
2:23:10
looks brilliant on the screen. Yeah.
2:23:12
We'll talk about some of the specific techniques and where
2:23:14
they use them in a minute, but the way they create different
2:23:16
perspectives and huge scale, when that wasn't what they were
2:23:19
filming on the set, they were like illusionists pulling off a
2:23:22
magic trick. Yeah.
2:23:23
Paul Daniel must have been there somewhere.
2:23:26
That's magic. What first to try to do with the
2:23:28
millionaire Paul Daniel? But it's incredible stuff and
2:23:33
again, it's totally essential to the success of the films.
2:23:36
It totally is. I am astonished anything's
2:23:38
finished. I know it's incredible.
2:23:40
So back in 1987, two effect sculptures called Richard Taylor
2:23:44
and Tanya Roger formed an effect company called RT Effects,
2:23:48
working from their bedroom in New Zealand, and they created
2:23:50
the puppets for Public Eye. And that's the New Zealand
2:23:53
version of Spitting Image. And they then met Peter Jackson
2:23:56
on the set of ATV Commercial. He hired them to work on Meet
2:23:58
the Feebles in Brain Dead. And then, when heavenly
2:24:01
creatures need a digital effect work, Jackson and Taylor formed
2:24:04
Wet a Digital together, and Taylor changed the name of RT
2:24:07
Effects to Wet a Workshop. Yes.
2:24:09
So I think people sometimes think Wet A Workshop was
2:24:12
Jackson's company. It wasn't.
2:24:14
Yeah, Wet A Digital who did the digital effects on Lord of the
2:24:16
Rings was called owned by Jackson Wet A Workshop, the
2:24:19
practical effects team that was owned by Richard Taylor and
2:24:22
Tanya Roger like you just said. The name Wetter was taken from
2:24:25
an insect native to New Zealand. And then I also say, I love how
2:24:28
Peter Jackson says wetter when he's like, if you'd ever hear
2:24:30
himself witter, it's. Absolutely brilliant. 9 Witter,
2:24:34
Yes, I love that. But it's a native insect to New
2:24:38
Zealand. And Richard Taylor assembled a
2:24:39
team of 158 effects people who worked on the trilogy for 7 1/2
2:24:43
years. And apparently on the first day
2:24:45
of work and Taylor called them all together and said if you
2:24:48
aren't willing to treat this task as the most important thing
2:24:51
you've ever done in your life, you aren't worthy of the task.
2:24:55
Well, yeah, yeah, he is quite intense, seeming what you're
2:24:59
seeing behind the scenes. But he knew his stuff.
2:25:01
He knew the enormity of what they were doing here.
2:25:04
He had no time for flakes. No.
2:25:06
And Jackson Lee, I said that the importance of Richard Taylor,
2:25:08
The Lord of the Rings, cannot be overestimated.
2:25:11
So a bit of an unsung hero here I think, seeing as most people
2:25:14
don't know who he is. Yeah, definitely.
2:25:16
And one of the first challenges whether I had overcome was
2:25:18
around the smaller characters like hobbits and the dwarfs.
2:25:21
The hobbits are about 3 foot 6, so they had to figure out how to
2:25:24
make the actors play in them look a lot smaller on the
2:25:26
screen. They did use different
2:25:27
techniques to pull this off though, if you want to know what
2:25:29
they are. Go on then.
2:25:30
I'd love to. OK so first of all each Hobbit
2:25:33
also had their own scale double actors who were about 3 foot 6
2:25:37
tall. So in some scenes where we see
2:25:39
the hobbits from behind, they're often being played by their
2:25:41
double S and then in other scenes we see the body of the
2:25:44
scale double with The Hobbit actors face digitally added on
2:25:47
top of the double S face. Right.
2:25:50
Yeah, the scene at the start when Frodo leaps on Gandalf's
2:25:53
wagon and hugs him and he's much smaller.
2:25:55
That's the scale double. We just see the back of his
2:25:56
head. OK, and then there are some
2:25:59
scenes spread stone digitally and that just inserted the
2:26:01
hobbits into a shot in post. It made them smaller than the
2:26:04
other characters. And a good example of that is a
2:26:07
shot we talked about You Shall be The Fellowship of the Ring
2:26:10
and the Role in The Frame together, the film Them All and
2:26:12
then the hobbits actors and John Reese Davies as Gimli.
2:26:15
They were made smaller digitally.
2:26:17
Yeah. And then we've already talked
2:26:18
about the pranks and pony. And in that scene, we see a shot
2:26:21
when the hobbits first walk in, and they look tiny compared to
2:26:24
all of the humans in there. And they did that just by hiring
2:26:27
performers as extras. They're all walking around on
2:26:29
stilts. Oh.
2:26:30
Nice. That's my favorite.
2:26:32
Yeah. Like on Disney's Robin Hood when
2:26:34
he dresses as the crow and he's figuring about.
2:26:40
But how basic is that for today's standards?
2:26:42
It's like Buster Keaton or something.
2:26:44
It's great. Yeah.
2:26:45
But maybe the most famous technique was forced
2:26:47
perspective. And this is where one actor is
2:26:49
shot further away from the camera than the other actors in
2:26:52
the scene to make them look smaller.
2:26:54
And this involves designing sets and props in such a way to
2:26:57
disguise the fact that the actor is just standing further away.
2:27:00
Yeah. Yeah, the duo all the way
2:27:01
through. In that scene when Frodo was
2:27:03
sitting on Gandalf's wagon, it looks like they're sitting side
2:27:05
by side and Frodo was just small, but Elijah Wood's
2:27:08
actually about 7 feet further back than Ian McKellen.
2:27:11
The drawback of force perspective had always been that
2:27:14
the shot had to be static. As soon as the camera angle
2:27:16
changes, it breaks the illusion. But Jackson told his crew he
2:27:20
wanted to be able to shoot force perspective shots where the
2:27:22
camera moved in the scene. So Andrew Leslie developed a new
2:27:25
motion control system called the Slave Morcon.
2:27:28
So the camera was on a computer controlled Dolly and the set was
2:27:32
too. So as the camera moves, the set
2:27:34
moves with it, keeping the perspective of illusion.
2:27:36
It's actually in place. Like think about the fixed
2:27:38
camera on Inception when it turns, Yeah, how it's fixed to
2:27:42
the set and it just moves with the set.
2:27:44
Yeah. It's ridiculous we'll see that
2:27:46
the starting back end when billboards pouring tea for
2:27:48
Gandalf yeah camera moves around and towards Ian Home and Ian
2:27:52
McKellen and Billbo's height doesn't change.
2:27:55
No one notices that shot because it's completely invisible.
2:27:58
When you know the for it, it's like what the hell?
2:28:00
What's going on? How they're doing that?
2:28:02
Yeah, yeah. And Weather were also tasked
2:28:04
with creating the miniatures. They produce 58 miniatures,
2:28:07
which was so large and detailed that they've become known as
2:28:10
bigotries instead. The Rivendell bigotry was about
2:28:13
7 foot tall. They're all going to start to
2:28:15
use that. The Fellowship Sale Pass were 8
2:28:17
foot tall each and the Eisengaard Bigotry was 65 feet
2:28:21
wide and 15 feet tall. Crazy.
2:28:24
I mean, Jackson can get right in there though, doesn't it?
2:28:26
You can shoot close up and they still stand up to it because
2:28:29
it's all detailed. Yeah, when it goes past them
2:28:31
being statues and the birds fly out from the eyes.
2:28:33
Absolutely. Yeah, I love that.
2:28:34
Yeah. I'd love them either side of the
2:28:35
front door. You shall not pass.
2:28:43
Well, we've been through a lot there, but the effects work on
2:28:45
Lord of the Rings goes way beyond that.
2:28:47
We'll be covering that in the follow-ups.
2:28:49
Yeah, but for the effects work here, Richard Taylor, Jim
2:28:51
Rigiel, Randall, William Cook and Mark Stetson won the Oscar
2:28:54
for best visual effects, Right. I mean, obviously, Yeah,
2:28:58
obviously Pearl Harbors not beating it, surely.
2:29:00
Is it no. Definitely no.
2:29:02
And Andrew Lesnie also won the Oscar for best cinematography.
2:29:05
Nice. Also a worthy winner I think.
2:29:07
Definitely, yeah. And for us, between Lesnie's
2:29:10
cinematography and Wetter workshops, effects work, they
2:29:12
didn't just fill Middle Earth, they kind of created it.
2:29:15
Absolutely. Yeah, they did.
2:29:17
So we're massifying the scenes team on The Fellowship of the
2:29:19
Ring and the people we've mentioned there, Fran Walsh,
2:29:21
Philipa Boyens, Peter Jackson, the screenwriters.
2:29:24
That feels like ages ago talking about them.
2:29:26
Yeah, it really does. Yeah.
2:29:28
Howard Yours composer Andrew Lesnie's DP and Richard Taylor
2:29:31
leading Wetter workshop. It feels like they did treated
2:29:34
as the most important thing they've ever done.
2:29:37
Yeah, definitely. The end.
2:29:44
So having mind Moria and Mord, Gandalf the Fellowship seeks
2:29:48
refuge in L'horene realm of the Lady Galadriel.
2:29:51
It's all about Frodo as he gets a glimpse of the future and
2:29:54
Galadriel's mirror, and then Boromia's desire for the Ring
2:29:57
manifests the Alvin forest mat. How do we find Loth Laurian?
2:30:02
Well, we then get the scene where Frodo and glad we all have
2:30:05
sex. I mean, they don't.
2:30:07
Obviously they left that out. That's not this version, no.
2:30:10
We didn't go to that version. What does happen, though, is
2:30:12
only a little less disturbing than that thought.
2:30:15
But weirdly, it does feel like the seduction scene.
2:30:18
She's tempting Frodo to look into the water to see what lies
2:30:21
there, and then he's tempting her with a ring after that.
2:30:24
And I just want to talk about Kia Blanchard here.
2:30:26
I mean, she's always brilliant. Everyone knows that.
2:30:28
Yeah. But with such little screen
2:30:30
time, she is still so memorable in this.
2:30:32
And she has this real calmness and serenity to her.
2:30:36
You feel safe in her presence. Think well, nothing bad can
2:30:39
happen to Gladwyles here. So when you see that the ring
2:30:41
would even turn her evil, that just really reinforces how
2:30:45
powerful it is. Because with her lineage and her
2:30:48
aids, she should be able to refuse it so easily.
2:30:50
But she can't. So when she turns into the Dark
2:30:53
Queen, just for that minute, it's really scary but also have
2:30:56
to admit, little bit sexy. Little bit sexy little.
2:30:59
Bit sexy? Here it is.
2:31:01
Yeah, so The Walking through the woods and a load of Elvin arches
2:31:04
appear from nowhere. It's the first time we see Hal
2:31:07
Dia played by Craig Parker. And I love the shady throat at
2:31:10
Gimli. The dwarf breathed so loud we
2:31:12
could have shot him in the dark. Funniest light in the trilogy
2:31:16
for me. Yeah, brilliant.
2:31:17
But Lot Lorien's where the film and thus takes a big old rest
2:31:21
after the madness of Moria. The design of the place is again
2:31:24
ridiculous. Those huge swirling trees in the
2:31:27
spiral staircases, the glow and the lighting, all great.
2:31:30
It feels like magical and a bit creepy as well.
2:31:33
Yeah. Yeah.
2:31:34
And Cate Blanchett has Galadriel, a massive talent,
2:31:36
obviously, and she throws herself all in on this, and it's
2:31:40
some sight. She can definitely pull off all
2:31:42
the grandiose dialogue when Frodo offers at the ring and
2:31:45
just freaks out like you'd have a queen.
2:31:47
I love all that. Yeah, that's great.
2:31:49
But I also like the bit where Galadriel gives presents to the
2:31:51
Fellowship 1 by 1. Is the leaving.
2:31:53
Gimli calls her more fair than all the jewels beneath the
2:31:56
earth, and she doesn't see anything.
2:31:58
She just laughs in his face. Yeah.
2:32:02
Constant humiliation for Gimli. Yeah.
2:32:05
But yeah, a lot of Lorien. It's a great place to take us
2:32:06
for a little breather and some exposition.
2:32:09
And always a tree. Seeing Cate Blanchett firing on
2:32:11
all cylinders, surely. Yeah.
2:32:13
Yeah. And in filming the Loth Lorien
2:32:15
scenes, Andrew Lesnie developed an innovation called the
2:32:18
Gladvillight that they used to shoot Cate Blanchett.
2:32:21
They made a rig of hundreds of Christmas tree lights mounted
2:32:24
beside the camera and this created lots of reflections and
2:32:27
Blanchett's eyes to make look otherworldly.
2:32:29
And Leslie said that people sometimes ask about how he lit
2:32:32
Blanchett for the close-ups to give her that glowing look, but
2:32:35
he didn't really do anything. Kate Blanchett actually has a
2:32:37
natural luminosity to his skin that bounced the light like most
2:32:41
people's don't. That's how good Kate Blanchett
2:32:44
is. Skin actually sparkles.
2:32:47
Yep. She's an elf.
2:32:49
Amazing. I mean that collateral light as
2:32:50
well that's just so well used when you see all them catch
2:32:52
lights in the eyes. You can just, it's such a simple
2:32:55
premise. It's just Christmas tree lights
2:32:57
just wrap around a rig or even sometimes around the lens as
2:32:59
well when the shooting them close up.
2:33:01
So that might have had something to do with the way she was lit,
2:33:03
but I don't think he wants to give that away.
2:33:04
But try wrapping some Christmas tree lights around your lens and
2:33:07
take a take a portrait of someone and you might be
2:33:09
surprised. Well, Leslie said then creating
2:33:12
that rig, he was inspired by a line from the book, not the
2:33:15
script, about how glad reals eyes are like Starlight.
2:33:18
So nice to yeah. The scene where Frodo looks into
2:33:21
Galadriel Mirror seeing the Shire being burned down is a
2:33:24
reference to the Scouring of the Shire from the books.
2:33:27
In the novels, at the end of Return of the King, the hobbits
2:33:30
return home to find the Shire has been taken over by Saruman
2:33:33
and transformed into a wasteland, and they have to
2:33:35
battle to take it back. And that would have just been
2:33:37
one step too far. I would have been exhausted.
2:33:40
Macro them just coming back with all this stuff on and say, Oh
2:33:42
no, just farting much. So Jackson left that chapter out
2:33:47
of his scripts, but made a little nod to it here, which is
2:33:49
nice. It is a nice nod, yet couldn't
2:33:51
be in the films, could it? The end of Return of the King is
2:33:54
long enough. Imagine that was in there.
2:33:56
It ends 9 times. It's also around this time as
2:34:00
well when we see Saruman releasing the Urukai to go after
2:34:03
the ring and that montage sequence.
2:34:04
Great. That's great, yeah.
2:34:06
And Gladwell's homestead was the largest miniature wedding belt
2:34:09
for the film, and miniatures were made on each of the huge
2:34:12
Malone trees. There was so big that the only
2:34:15
made models of the tops and bottoms of the trees, and each
2:34:17
of them were about 26 foot tall. Nice. 26 feet?
2:34:21
That's just an actual freight. Sure.
2:34:25
So what we have here is a beautiful chase sequence where
2:34:28
we don't actually know it's a chase sequence because you've
2:34:30
got the Urakai creeping up on there, going down the river
2:34:32
really slowly, kind of taking the time.
2:34:34
Amazing. When you say Lego, that's
2:34:35
looking around and he can send something.
2:34:37
Yeah. That's great.
2:34:38
This is just absolutely fantastic from Sean Bean as well
2:34:41
because he plays this scene when he catches up with Throwdown,
2:34:44
he's collecting the firewood and he's going to try and take that
2:34:47
ring because he now he knows. But if Frodo's overheard him
2:34:49
talking Aragon, so he's kind of switched on with it.
2:34:52
But Bean plays this like an addict.
2:34:54
Yeah. Like someone trying to get the
2:34:55
last hit just tried that desperation because he tries to
2:34:58
suck a remain at 1st and he's like, there are other ways
2:35:00
Frodo's like, you know, like that mate tried to convince you
2:35:03
to have one more pint when you want to get a taxi.
2:35:06
It's just that little like soft touch.
2:35:08
And it's like, you know, it is. Then there's just this real
2:35:10
desperation like, well, if you just lend me the ring and he's
2:35:13
like, no. And then he just starts losing
2:35:15
it and he's like, you know, you will beg for death before the.
2:35:17
End. And he's like.
2:35:18
Well, how far is he going to go with this?
2:35:20
And he just realizes that he's just gone too far and he has to
2:35:23
keep pushing and has to keep pushing and it gets fraud to put
2:35:25
the ring on. And when he puts the ring on,
2:35:27
this for me is one of the best visual kind of little ticks.
2:35:30
And it's so simple because you can see he puts the ring on,
2:35:33
kicks Boromia off him, beam falls back and you see the
2:35:37
leaves kick up and you can tell there's someone just the camera
2:35:39
left. And there's that log in the
2:35:41
foreground and someone just goes bop and hits the log off camera
2:35:44
and you can see it move up. But it's just perfect, the way
2:35:47
that you stood on that log then, and it's just so simple.
2:35:51
And then you get that incredible moment where he's just
2:35:53
screaming, shouting, bangs his head, and you just have that
2:35:56
level of regret. Bruno I'm sorry, it fucking
2:36:01
breaks me hard. Every single.
2:36:03
Time. So I'm like, he really is sorry.
2:36:06
It's just absolutely fantastic stuff.
2:36:07
This scene is great. Yeah, I think just narratively
2:36:10
the way the handle Borrow me as like Fall is really well done
2:36:14
because it develops throughout the story.
2:36:16
He mentioned taking the ring, the Gondor, the council of
2:36:18
Elrond. Then he argues with our going
2:36:19
about it. He's mesmerized by it when he
2:36:21
picks it up on kataras and then glad Real sets it up by saying,
2:36:25
you know of whom I speak, Throws him right under the bus.
2:36:28
So when it comes, it feels kind of inevitable.
2:36:30
Yeah. And Boromia has gone mad.
2:36:32
He kicks off with Aragorn, then assaults Frodo.
2:36:34
It's outrageous. Yeah.
2:36:36
Screws everything up. Although straight after this, we
2:36:39
do get that scene where Aragorn let's Frodo go.
2:36:41
Yeah. Which is a great character
2:36:43
moment for our gone. It is.
2:36:44
It's the black white, isn't it, the Cherish hero between the two
2:36:47
characters and kind of shows that he's actually stronger than
2:36:49
Boromia is. Exactly.
2:36:50
Yeah. And when he picks the ring up on
2:36:52
Caddras as well, the way they did that was about the size of a
2:36:54
car tyre. The actual ring, Right?
2:36:56
That close up, the close up in the foreground, it was huge.
2:36:59
It was like a bike tire, right? That's how big the ring was.
2:37:01
Just to get that perspective on it and it looks absolutely
2:37:04
unreal. It's a great shot, that yeah.
2:37:06
It's fantastic for trots in the film that.
2:37:08
Yeah, just the close up of it, yeah.
2:37:10
Oh yeah, really? Key moments in terms of
2:37:12
narrative and character. Boromia shows his weakness,
2:37:14
Aragorn then shows his strength, and Frodo often is Jack Jones
2:37:18
with Sam. And when Frodo escapes and
2:37:21
Boromia, he runs up a hill to hide and he's got the Ring on,
2:37:24
as we've been saying, and he sees Borodua, which is Sauron's
2:37:27
father's zoom up to him. This isn't an effective way in
2:37:30
the Ring. The Hilda on is called Ammon
2:37:32
Hen, and it has a magical property.
2:37:34
And this let someone at the top see vast distances like looking
2:37:37
through a telescope. Right.
2:37:39
Nice. Magic binoculars, like a view
2:37:41
master. Remember them clicking through
2:37:42
the slides? Oh yeah, yeah.
2:37:44
Brilliant, yeah. I also like that huge fallen
2:37:47
statue we'll see on the ground behind Boromia and Frodo like a
2:37:50
massive head. Yeah, I love that.
2:37:52
What I created that is a huge prop for the background of 1
2:37:55
scene. It's like, incredible.
2:37:56
And Jackson said he regretted not getting them to do the rest
2:37:59
of it. He said it would be fantastic to
2:38:00
have the fight scene around, like all of the body falling and
2:38:03
all smashed apart. That would have been great.
2:38:04
He said he thought about that just too late to do.
2:38:06
It right, Otherwise he definitely would have.
2:38:08
He definitely. Would have.
2:38:09
It would have been probably really Harryhausen.
2:38:11
That would have been like the end of Jason would have been.
2:38:13
Yeah. The times we see the Eye of
2:38:14
Sauron were inventions for the films.
2:38:16
In the book, the Eye of Sauron is mentioned, but only as a
2:38:19
metaphorical reference to Sauron's far reaching power.
2:38:23
Jackson wanted to make it literal.
2:38:24
And what a digital created what we see an eye with swirling
2:38:27
flames around it. Yeah, pretty great visualizing.
2:38:30
Great visual though, isn't it? Yeah, and it's got a voice as
2:38:32
well. And it's got.
2:38:33
Yeah. Yeah.
2:38:34
I see you. Yeah, and it gives Sarwan a
2:38:39
physical presence, which works better.
2:38:40
Yeah, I mean, Sarwan's not seen it all in the books.
2:38:43
Yeah, he's in the prologue and then as the eye, which I think
2:38:45
visually you need it in a film. You do need it, yeah.
2:38:48
What's he doing, though? Where is he like?
2:38:50
Is he just on top of the tower? Just like sitting there just
2:38:52
being like, oh, let's have a look through the telescope
2:38:54
thing. There it.
2:38:57
Must be so glad we all passes her test.
2:39:01
Boromia fails his and Frodo makes the decision to go on
2:39:04
alone with Sam. Yeah, yeah.
2:39:07
Shall we see what the fallout is?
2:39:08
Let's do it. Let's see it.
2:39:11
With Frodo gone and the Fellowships scattered across,
2:39:14
aim on hand, the Urukai attacking force, Yeah, What
2:39:17
follows is an epic hillside battle.
2:39:19
Boromia has killed Marion, Pippen are taken and Aragorn
2:39:22
fights to the death with chief Urukai alerts.
2:39:25
Yeah, yeah. It's all kicking off, Matt.
2:39:28
They're my words, not Tolkien's. OK, but how does the action
2:39:32
climax play out? I mean, first time I saw this,
2:39:35
despite knowing there was two more to come, I just thought,
2:39:38
well, this is the end for them. The outnumbered does such do
2:39:41
either. Can't get out of this.
2:39:42
And then you get that slow more of Aragon walking around the
2:39:45
ruin, taking the side. Yeah, no, screw that.
2:39:50
He'll take them all out and then Gimli and leg last turn up and
2:39:54
it's just got one of those classic Peter Jackson touches
2:39:56
I've been talking about when Legolas, he's going through hour
2:39:59
after hour to take them out until 1 all gets so close, he
2:40:02
stabs it in the eye with his arrow and then uses it anyway to
2:40:06
shoot another one. I mean, it's all incredible.
2:40:09
And there's such an intensity to all this, like all the kind of,
2:40:11
we've been talking about Marion Pippen being, you know, just
2:40:14
slightly comical characters not doing much.
2:40:16
But their realization what Frodo's plan is that he's going
2:40:20
to separate from them and they have to let him go and they have
2:40:23
to basically sacrifice themselves by creating a
2:40:25
distraction. So in their heads, well, they
2:40:28
think they're going to die, but they just do it anyway.
2:40:31
Then you get borrow me. You're coming charging in, you
2:40:33
know, his moment of redemption. There he is slow, more
2:40:36
redemption. That's amazing.
2:40:38
And then he sounds the horn and the way the camera just tracks
2:40:42
Aragon running towards that sound, and it just takes off,
2:40:45
Yeah, to that bird's eye view. And it just keeps going and
2:40:48
going and going. Incredible.
2:40:49
Following everyone pelting their way down.
2:40:52
This is action filmmaking at its finest.
2:40:54
Yeah. And it's probably only maybe
2:40:56
like the 5th best battle scene in the entire trilogy.
2:40:58
Yeah, I love this as an action sequence.
2:41:00
I mean, for a few reasons, but one of them is that I think it
2:41:02
might be the only time in the trilogy where the orcs feel like
2:41:05
a huge threat. Yeah, one of the Fellowships
2:41:08
killed, Two of them are taken hostage.
2:41:10
The orcs are dangerous, dangerous, and it's all the
2:41:11
better for it. Loots riding through the forest
2:41:13
shouting find the hair flings is great.
2:41:17
Yeah, terrifying and. Then there's some great
2:41:19
individual moments. Legolas firing off like 5 hours
2:41:22
in the row without breaking stride is cool.
2:41:24
Yeah. And marry.
2:41:25
And people get the moment when the brave is held rowing the
2:41:27
oaks after them so fraud wouldn't get away.
2:41:29
Yeah, I think it's like a great example of how we do a climax to
2:41:31
a blockbuster. Even a huge spectacular 1
2:41:34
doesn't need to be about saving the world.
2:41:36
In fact, I'd say it's often better when it's not.
2:41:38
It's better when there's personal stakes involved, like,
2:41:41
yeah. Yeah, it's saving each other,
2:41:42
isn't? It exactly great sequence.
2:41:44
Brilliant action directing as well from Action Jackson.
2:41:47
Yeah, and they haven't mentioned either that motivator for Aragon
2:41:50
when he looks down and stings, lit up.
2:41:52
Oh yeah, yes, go, go. He puts the sword up.
2:41:57
I just like, come on. Yeah.
2:42:00
What a fucking guy, yes? The.
2:42:03
Second time I watched it, the cinema, I just stood up.
2:42:04
I was like. Yes, fucking yes, it's.
2:42:08
Been wonderful. It is fantastic.
2:42:10
And Jackson told the production designer, Grant major and
2:42:14
location manager Dan Henner what kind of location he wanted as
2:42:17
the setting for the battle. It was a mountain backdrop,
2:42:19
trees, but suitable for an action scene with loads of
2:42:22
extras. They came back with close burn
2:42:24
and that's the Lake peninsula near Queenstown.
2:42:26
And Jackson said it was the place as soon as he saw it.
2:42:29
Nice. Jackson didn't just like those
2:42:31
burners. The location he bought it?
2:42:32
Wow. PR Jackson and Fran Walsh now
2:42:34
own 7 parcels and three homes there.
2:42:37
Right. Did all right out of this
2:42:38
Jackson, didn't he? He?
2:42:41
Yeah. But yeah, it's a superb location
2:42:43
for the scene. It kind of makes it, I think.
2:42:45
Jackson wanted to film the battle with practical and
2:42:48
digital effects. They hired about 250 extras as
2:42:51
orcs and when a digital multiplied how many there are in
2:42:54
post production. And the moment Boromir is hit by
2:42:56
the arrows, Sean Bean was wearing a metal breastplate
2:42:59
under his costume and the arrows were just stuck into him on cue.
2:43:02
Yeah, and then the cut to Sean Bean reacting as if he's just
2:43:05
been shot at the right time. Add some sound design and you're
2:43:08
golden. Works great.
2:43:09
Yeah. Robert's your father's brother.
2:43:11
Exactly, also a DNA I like about the orcs.
2:43:13
Have you noticed they only wear armour on the front and not the
2:43:16
back? Oh.
2:43:17
No. That came from wet a workshop
2:43:19
when they designed them. The idea being that orcs never
2:43:21
run away in a battle, so the only away armour on the front.
2:43:24
Okay. Yeah.
2:43:25
I mean, not a great tactical decision, I don't think not.
2:43:27
Great. I don't think they're a race of
2:43:29
tactics. Other, you know, the run past
2:43:31
Frodo, about 8 of them. Yeah.
2:43:37
Yeah, I'm talking about the scene when Boromia kind of makes
2:43:39
up for all these past mistakes. Blurts is in there, his death
2:43:43
arrow going on for Avengers and my turns up.
2:43:45
It's just an incredible, incredible piece of work.
2:43:47
Now, sometimes, I'm not ashamed to admit I will just watch this
2:43:52
sequence on YouTube just every now and again.
2:43:56
Them arrows going in. Yeah, in that first hit when it
2:43:59
cuts to absolute silence and Marion Pippen are just looking,
2:44:02
going what we're supposed to do now.
2:44:05
And then he turns around and goes again, the sound design on
2:44:08
that ball being called back that.
2:44:11
And. It's just that silence.
2:44:14
He's just that you can feel like that ball that's just been
2:44:17
around for about 4000 years and someone's just found it and just
2:44:21
went, oh, that's what it sounds like.
2:44:22
It's perfect. All of a sudden, bang, there's
2:44:26
Aragon in and you hear, but you hear the arrow get fire off.
2:44:30
He's done it. And then there's that fight with
2:44:33
Aragon, you know, smacking the knife away in real time.
2:44:35
Oh God, it's just so good. It's so well choreographed and
2:44:39
it's so, so pleasant. It's pulling the sword into
2:44:42
himself to get Aragon closer. And then we'll get one of the
2:44:47
nicest back and forth between two actors.
2:44:49
And I think the whole of the trilogy, just that be it Piece,
2:44:52
son of Gondo, I'm not going to let you down.
2:44:54
Like I'm going to wear your gauntlets and I'm going to wear
2:44:56
them for the rest of the film and wear them for the rest of
2:44:58
the trilogy and picks them up and puts them on, which was
2:45:01
Viggo Mortensen's idea, wears them all the way through.
2:45:04
It's just a fantastic way to end the film.
2:45:07
It is. I mean the whole battle
2:45:08
eventually boils down to like one conflict, Aragorn V Lertz.
2:45:12
So it's dead simple. Aragorn represents the good
2:45:14
guys, Lertz is the bad guys. Again, one of the only times
2:45:17
where an orc fights a human and it's actually a match from.
2:45:20
And again, it makes the scene so much better because Lertz is the
2:45:24
most memorable orc from the whole trilogy surely.
2:45:27
And it's because of this scene I think.
2:45:28
And the way he goes, Aragorn stabs him in the belly and Lert
2:45:31
just pulls the sword further in, like right in his face.
2:45:34
It might be the most visual like you.
2:45:36
Yeah, You know, there's really Jackson that though as well.
2:45:39
I think the other memorable log is the one that looks like
2:45:40
Harvey Weinstein in Return of the King.
2:45:42
I think that's the only other one you.
2:45:43
Mean, yeah. But Lertz is definitely so
2:45:46
memorable, yeah. Yeah, he's great, and it sets up
2:45:48
the next film very nicely. The Fellowship's broken.
2:45:50
Frodo and Sam are gone, Boromie has gone, Mary and Pippen are
2:45:53
gone and was set up for the great trio of Aragorn, Legolas
2:45:56
and Gimli running through the mountains.
2:45:58
Yeah, it's easy top. Yeah.
2:46:02
In the book. Or borrow me, he was killed off
2:46:04
screen and Aragon just finds his body full of owls and that
2:46:07
actually doesn't happen until the start of the Two Towers.
2:46:10
But the right has changed to be seen in the climax of Fellowship
2:46:12
and Lert isn't in the book at all.
2:46:14
Jackson said they created him is The Wanted to give a face to the
2:46:17
bad guys. Yeah, yeah, There's a few
2:46:19
changes they make through the trilogy of pulling things from
2:46:21
the beginnings of one book to the end of another and vice
2:46:24
versa. Borrow me have death one of
2:46:25
them, and obviously it's got to happen here.
2:46:28
Yeah. Definitely, yeah.
2:46:29
Much more effective, yeah. Let's was played by 6 foot 4
2:46:32
Maori stuntman called Lawrence Mcgowary after he auditioned for
2:46:35
the part. It took 11 hours each day for
2:46:38
the makeup and prosthetics work to turn Mcgowary into Lyrds.
2:46:41
They'd start at 9:00 PM and have them ready for filming at 8:00
2:46:45
AM the next day. That's absolutely ludicrous.
2:46:48
One of the best things is it's a really good performance.
2:46:51
Yeah, yes, he's great. But like where we did say later,
2:46:53
I do it all again in a heartbeat, which is nice.
2:46:56
Fair enough. So the fellowships done and
2:46:58
we're very near the end. And in true Jackson fashion, we
2:47:01
get not one, deny you more, but two, yes we do.
2:47:04
Fraud 1 Sam head to Mordo while the three amigos are off hunting
2:47:07
oaks. A satisfying way to finish.
2:47:10
Definitely. I mean, I would say, though,
2:47:11
after everything we've been through, I don't think we quite
2:47:14
need this little bit of jeopardy about some potentially drowning
2:47:17
here. Like, yeah, it's definitely not
2:47:19
going to happen. You know, after everything,
2:47:21
we're not going to see Sam drown.
2:47:22
We don't need it. But what you do need is that
2:47:25
moment of quiet after that action sequence, after the
2:47:28
intensity of Borromy is passing. You need a moment to reset and
2:47:32
take a breath, but also take it all in and realize this has
2:47:35
ended on failure for the most part.
2:47:38
This is not Elrond and Gandalf's plan at all.
2:47:41
The fellowship is broken and it's just Frodo on Sam on the
2:47:44
most difficult part of the journey with no one to protect
2:47:47
them. What's amazing is though, it's
2:47:49
still feels hopeful rather than depressing.
2:47:51
Yeah, I think the reason that moment of the Sam nearly
2:47:53
drowning is in there is because, to be honest, Sam hasn't
2:47:56
actually done that much in this film.
2:47:58
That's a good point actually. Yeah.
2:48:01
Yeah, I mean, that sequence itself was directed by Fran
2:48:03
Walsh. Right.
2:48:04
But I think it shows his determination and shows the
2:48:06
human nature of it. And just to direct that scene
2:48:08
and have them to just work off each other so well.
2:48:11
I think, again, that's what Fran Walsh brings to the right and
2:48:13
that's what she brings to production and especially what
2:48:15
she brings to this scene. Yeah, that one moment sets up
2:48:18
the relationship that gets a lot more development in the next two
2:48:21
films between Frodo and Sam. Definitely.
2:48:23
But before the film, the scene where Sam enters the water,
2:48:26
divers went in first to make sure it would be free of any
2:48:28
sharp objects. But even though they gave the
2:48:30
OK, Sean Hassan stood on a piece of glass and it pees his foot
2:48:33
from bottom to top. He couldn't film in a
2:48:36
helicopter, had to fly in the gun in the Nevis hospital.
2:48:38
Nasty George Divers must have been a bit sheepish.
2:48:41
I bet he literally had one job. Yeah, just.
2:48:44
Really crap. Look out for glass.
2:48:48
My scene this last one is just a wonderful thing Aragon, Gimli
2:48:51
Legolas that go after the hobbits.
2:48:53
They decided not to give up and just the dialogue here should
2:48:56
not work. I'm just going to reiterate that
2:48:59
it should not work any of this because he holds on to both of
2:49:02
them and says not if we hold true to each other.
2:49:05
Yeah, we travel like leave what can be spared behind.
2:49:08
Let's on some orc and Kim Lee's like it's easy top one and after
2:49:19
the orcs absolutely love it then three are perfect together.
2:49:21
It sets up their relationship. You know it's going to be great.
2:49:24
Automatically makes us want to start the film again.
2:49:26
Or just make sure I've got time to watch The Two Towers.
2:49:29
Yeah, I love it how the lads form their own mini fellowship.
2:49:32
Like that's great. The best ones anyway, so.
2:49:34
Let's just do that, yeah? But the tricky thing for the
2:49:37
ending is it has to feel satisfying as a conclusion when
2:49:40
they're only a third of the way through the story, and I think
2:49:42
it definitely does. It does.
2:49:44
Yeah, 100%. That final shot is Frodo and Sam
2:49:46
walk off carrying on the journey, and we pan to stay on
2:49:49
Mount Doom, miles off in the distance.
2:49:50
Fantastic that it really feels like we're done for now, but
2:49:54
we'll be back. We'll be back, Yeah, just have a
2:49:56
cup of tea. And with that, the Fellowship of
2:50:00
the Ring comes to a close. An epic battle.
2:50:02
Boromia redeemed in death, Aragorn Lego lesson, Gimli
2:50:05
beginning a side quest on Fredo, and Sam starting the real
2:50:08
journey. Yeah, as an ending that's also a
2:50:10
beginning works well for us. Yeah, I mean, it's absolutely
2:50:13
impossible to ignore what's coming, isn't it?
2:50:15
You have to continue this journey.
2:50:17
You too. Reception and awards.
2:50:24
So that is the story of the first part of the story from the
2:50:27
Shia to aim on hen. Yep.
2:50:29
The Fellowship of the Ring opened worldwide in December
2:50:31
2001 but had its premiere in New Zealand, fittingly I think.
2:50:35
Yeah, 2, right? How did you do 1 release?
2:50:37
Well, our statistics with that is he had to tell us.
2:50:40
So take it, please, Matt. So from a production budget of
2:50:44
$93 million, which is 1/3 of the total cost for the trilogy,
2:50:47
Fellowship of the Ring grossed $889.5 million worldwide.
2:50:53
It was 2001 second highest grossing film behind Harry
2:50:57
Potter and the Philosopher's Stone.
2:50:59
Wow. The first Fast and the Furious
2:51:01
film was 2001 as well, I think, so a year of some serious IP
2:51:06
releases that. No wonder Vin Diesel was busy.
2:51:09
Yeah. Yeah, New Line was so confident
2:51:12
with what they had. They held no test screenings,
2:51:15
and the marketing team launched a huge online campaign.
2:51:18
They contacted 400 token influencers around the world,
2:51:21
building up a network of people driving interest to the film and
2:51:24
the first trail. I set an all time record for a
2:51:27
number of downloads. Wow.
2:51:29
Yeah, like I said, I remember it being everywhere.
2:51:31
Yeah. They definitely had a Burger
2:51:33
King partnership as well. Yes, recall that.
2:51:35
Well, obviously, Obviously. Obviously.
2:51:38
Yeah. Any excuse, Pippen, for
2:51:39
obviously under the critics. And we'll start, as we always
2:51:45
do, with Roger Ebert, The eye of Roger.
2:51:48
Yes. Fixed on the Fellowship.
2:51:50
What do they make of it, do we think?
2:51:51
I think he loved it. I.
2:51:52
Think he loved to give the full 4?
2:51:54
Yeah, it was three stars out of four from ROG.
2:51:57
Oh. OK.
2:51:58
Miserable Bastard. And he said Peter Jackson has
2:52:02
made a work of our times. It will be embraced by many
2:52:05
talking fans and take on aspects of a cult.
2:52:07
It is a candidate for many Oscars and an awesome production
2:52:10
in its daring and breath. 3. Oh yeah, so this was the 4th
2:52:15
star? Roger must have forgot one.
2:52:17
Golem's got it. Yeah.
2:52:19
He was worried about the Oscars and the cult following, wasn't
2:52:21
he? So I think he's got one of those
2:52:23
crystal balls like Solomon. Yeah, I think he's just holding
2:52:25
off till he sees the other two. Yeah, he's been very cards close
2:52:28
to his chest, as usual. Peter Bradshaw of the Guardian
2:52:30
was less impressed and said there is a strange paucity of
2:52:33
plot complication, all the more disconcerting because of the
2:52:36
indigestible back story we have to wade through before anything
2:52:40
happens. Signing up to the movies,
2:52:42
Hoppity, Elvis universe requires a leap of faith, and it's a leap
2:52:45
I didn't feel like making. Good, stay where you are.
2:52:48
Well, we did thankfully dive right in.
2:52:51
Dive right in the world. The world is beautifully warm,
2:52:53
thank you very much. And Empire Magazine gave it the
2:52:56
full 5 stars. Of course it did.
2:52:57
Yeah, ever there was a film made for Empire?
2:52:59
It's this. It is, yeah.
2:53:01
Yeah. Yeah, and Colin Kennedy said,
2:53:04
putting formula blockbusters to shame.
2:53:06
Fellowship is impeccably cast and constructed with both care
2:53:09
and passion. This is a labour of love that
2:53:11
never feels laboured. Nice.
2:53:14
Yeah, that's true. Wonderful way of putting it.
2:53:16
Yeah, it's a good point. I think it clearly is a huge
2:53:17
labor of love, but never feels like we're seeing that hard work
2:53:20
on the screen in a bad way anyway.
2:53:22
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And today on Rotten Tomatoes,
2:53:24
Fellowship has a critics approval rating of 92% and a
2:53:28
massive 95% from audiences. And on IMDb, it currently sits
2:53:32
with a rating of 8.9 out of 10, making it #8 in IMDB's Top 250
2:53:38
films of all time. And that is one place below
2:53:40
Schindler's List and one above Pulp Fiction.
2:53:43
Right. Wow, what triple watch that is?
2:53:46
Yeah. It's my Saturday afternoon.
2:53:49
Every Saturday afternoon. Every Saturday.
2:53:53
So The Fellowship of the Ring was released to massive
2:53:56
commercial success, critical acclaim, Oscar's success, and
2:53:59
start of the trilogy that would dominate the box office for
2:54:01
three years. Yeah, did all right, didn't it?
2:54:04
Did all right. Such a laid back guy from New
2:54:06
Zealand. Sequels and influence.
2:54:13
As we all know, The Fellowship of the Ring was just the
2:54:15
beginning. Jackson and Coed filmed all
2:54:17
three films back-to-back, so The Two Towers arrived in 2002 and
2:54:21
The Return of the King in 2003. I think I was covering those at
2:54:25
some point. Is in the asset, isn't it?
2:54:28
Yeah, well, I think we'll stick to that yearly thing we'll do to
2:54:30
each other's next year and then, yeah, just in time for
2:54:32
Christmas. Lovely.
2:54:33
Perfect. So we'll leave the sequels for
2:54:35
now and The Hobbit trilogy for those episodes and go straight
2:54:38
into the legacy of Fellowship, right?
2:54:40
So what do you think the legacy and the influence of the
2:54:43
Fellowship of the Ring? I mean, I think it's still so
2:54:45
obvious today. It made big butchered fantasy
2:54:48
viable again, because now you've also got Harry Potter in the
2:54:51
same year, as we said. But I was just very definitely
2:54:54
aimed at children. This is big, butchered fantasy
2:54:57
aimed at adults, and it works. It took Peter Jackson from a
2:55:00
fairly obscure horror director to an absolute A Lister and
2:55:04
everything that he's done since to push the boundaries of
2:55:07
technology, not only in fiction, but in documentary as well.
2:55:10
The establishment of wet air, the effects technology, the
2:55:13
pioneer that still sets the standards today.
2:55:16
Even the amount of memes that have gone into popular culture
2:55:19
from this, it might be the most memeable film that's ever been
2:55:23
made. I think it is.
2:55:24
But but in a way that isn't depressing or overdone, it's
2:55:27
still funny. And then New Zealand itself, it
2:55:30
has a boom in 2 E industry because of this film.
2:55:34
I mean, how much money is being generated in the New Zealand
2:55:38
economy from Lord of the Rings and must be incalculable.
2:55:40
And it all starts with this one right here.
2:55:42
Yeah, definitely. Yeah.
2:55:44
I mean, like you say, this proved that fantasy ethics could
2:55:46
work as blockbusters and still have like artistic integrity.
2:55:50
Yeah. I mean, there were the fantasy
2:55:51
films before this, obviously, but not having this kind of
2:55:54
impact on popular culture. I don't think no.
2:55:57
And as we've mentioned it pioneered technologies that
2:55:59
became industry standards wet our workshop and the bigot
2:56:02
cheers. They also made major
2:56:04
developments in forced perspective we talked about and
2:56:06
some of that affect things we've not mentioned that we'll talk
2:56:08
about in those future episodes and direct influence on other
2:56:12
major IPS. Not too long after this we got
2:56:14
Game of Thrones. Surely HBO just went can we find
2:56:18
into that Lord of the Rings to make ATV show out of and would
2:56:21
we have the Marvel Cinematic Universe if not for this?
2:56:23
Possibly not. And yeah, like you say, Matt,
2:56:26
people literally traveling across the world to visit the
2:56:28
filming locations in New Zealand.
2:56:30
That's not normal. No, that's like Star Wars or
2:56:32
Harry Potter level cultural impact.
2:56:34
Yeah. So I think it's far cinemas
2:56:36
concerned, this film and the other two, the last forever I'd
2:56:40
imagine. Undoubtedly.
2:56:41
I mean, it's definitely up there for the best trilogy ever made.
2:56:44
It has to be. Yeah.
2:56:45
It's got to be in the conversation.
2:56:46
Then this and Toy Story me, you're gonna have to fight it
2:56:48
out. But Toy Story's lost that now.
2:56:50
So it's it's so, so close for me.
2:56:52
But the influence of this, I mean, some productions that I
2:56:55
think came straight off the back of this, Avatar being one of
2:56:57
them. Yeah.
2:56:58
I think just the absolute depth and scale of that.
2:57:00
And Cameron's outright. Well, I'm just going to do that.
2:57:02
You mentioned the MCU, John, which I think is really
2:57:04
important. That started with Iron Man in
2:57:05
2008. Yeah.
2:57:07
Pirates of the Caribbean, I think has a very similar kind
2:57:09
of. Yeah, definitely Orlando Bloom
2:57:11
being involved in that list, Yeah, let's just make that into
2:57:13
one of, you know, a massive franchise.
2:57:15
I think with that do. You remember Troy that was
2:57:17
surely made because of. This Yeah, yeah.
2:57:19
Wolfgang Peterson. Yeah.
2:57:20
After he did Neverland Story. So any franchise that's kind of
2:57:25
come since then, it's it's given people that ability to go, yes,
2:57:28
franchises make money, yes, they are successful.
2:57:30
Let's do it. And it's all because of Jackson
2:57:32
and his vision of Lord of the Rings.
2:57:34
If only everybody put in as much effort as he did into their
2:57:36
productions, that might be better.
2:57:39
Yeah, so 2 massive sequels that we'll talk about later, and an
2:57:43
influence that touched everything from film technology
2:57:45
to tourism. Yeah, The Fellowship of the Ring
2:57:47
didn't just start the trilogy. It has had a lasting impact.
2:57:50
Absolutely, 100% absolutely has that still does all the right
2:57:56
movies ranking. And here we are from Hobbit into
2:58:01
Hollywood. Yeah, The Lord of the Rings, The
2:58:03
Fellowship of the Ring. Done.
2:58:05
Yes. Now it's time for our very own
2:58:07
Council of Elrond, where we each give our verdict on the film and
2:58:10
score it out of 10. Westie, you chose this one.
2:58:14
So the Council of Westie, you're the Marine.
2:58:16
Score for the Fellowship of the Ring, please.
2:58:18
I mean it's tough isn't it, to give the ranking and rating of
2:58:21
this because I see this is 1 big tapestry.
2:58:24
I see this is 1 huge thing and it's hard to kind of separate
2:58:27
them off. It's like separating part of an
2:58:29
amazing meal and just be like what the what's the meat like
2:58:33
all once you have all of it together, it's incredible.
2:58:35
But for me, I think they all stand on their own as well as
2:58:38
independent films, and that's what I'm going to rank this one
2:58:41
on. Is it if it was just this film?
2:58:43
How did I feel when I just saw this one film and I left the
2:58:45
cinema? I felt excited.
2:58:47
I felt absolutely invigorated. I didn't even know what time it
2:58:52
was. I didn't know how long I was in
2:58:53
there for. I'd seen people on screen that
2:58:55
I'd never seen before who completely owned new characters.
2:58:57
I've seen Peter Jackson's visual flair that's been put into this
2:59:01
massive, epic adventure. It's a brilliant, brilliant
2:59:03
piece of work across the board. But Fellowship of the Ring is a
2:59:06
very special film for me because it pulled us back into cinema.
2:59:09
It pulled us back into being excited about it, and it just
2:59:11
shows that if you put enough heart and soul and work and
2:59:14
energy and love and graft into something, you will create
2:59:16
something that lives forever. It's impossible not to give this
2:59:19
a 10 out of 10 because it's easily a 10 out of 10.
2:59:21
Good reasoning. Wonderful.
2:59:23
I mean, coming into this episode I was thinking, where do you
2:59:26
even begin? A massive.
2:59:28
I mean, we've talked about the task.
2:59:30
Adapting legendary talking novels, filming 3 movies at the
2:59:33
same time, creating a believable Middle Earth.
2:59:36
And somehow, against all the odds, Pierre Jackson pulled it
2:59:39
off. Yeah.
2:59:40
I mean, this is filmmaking on a scale would surely never seen
2:59:43
before. 15 months, shoot revolutionary effects, work a
2:59:47
score with 100 light motifs, groundbreaking cinematography
2:59:51
developments, basically every department operating like at the
2:59:54
peak of the industry. Yeah.
2:59:55
I mean, the cast is very well put together and almost all of
2:59:58
them providing career defining work in these films.
3:00:01
Yeah. But what gave them the platform
3:00:02
to make it all work is Peter Jackson.
3:00:05
His vision is clear as day from frame one, and the film never
3:00:09
waivers from it. None of the films waiver from
3:00:11
it. And he's everywhere.
3:00:13
He's on the sets, he's in the studios, he's in the rivers,
3:00:16
he's up the mountains. He's an absolute madman in the
3:00:19
best way possible. And he channelled all that
3:00:21
energy into one of Hollywood's great achievements.
3:00:24
Yeah, some parts of the film totally aren't totally to my
3:00:26
tears. I mentioned a couple a little on
3:00:28
the nose for me occasionally, but that's easy to overlook with
3:00:31
so much of that great stuff going on.
3:00:33
Seconds worth of film though. It is.
3:00:35
It is seconds. How much you like the film?
3:00:38
It's probably a nine or a 9.5 out of 10, but it's such an
3:00:41
undertaking in achievement. I'm going to go higher and I'm
3:00:44
giving it the full whack of 10 out of 10.
3:00:45
Amazing, right? Yeah.
3:00:47
Wonderful. And Matt, what's your summary
3:00:49
and score for fellowship, please?
3:00:51
Epic film, epic episode. So I'll keep this short, but
3:00:54
sweet. You know, the production, like
3:00:56
you've said, it's mind boggling that it exists at all, let alone
3:00:59
in the form that we got it. And the beauty of this trilogy
3:01:03
is that it will always remain a trilogy.
3:01:05
Yes, there's The Hobbit films, which we'll talk about later and
3:01:08
the stream and stuff, but they are their own thing and
3:01:11
therefore you can't put this up as the greatest trilogy of all
3:01:14
time. And as Wesley said to me, it's
3:01:16
like when we cover Toy Story, that was up there there for a
3:01:18
while. And thinking back to when we
3:01:20
covered that Toy Story itself, that isn't my favorite of the
3:01:23
trilogy. But if that one didn't work, the
3:01:26
others just don't exist. And it's the same principle
3:01:28
here. I don't know of her say
3:01:30
Fellowship is my favorite of the trilogy here, but there saw
3:01:33
little between them and this one walked so the other two could
3:01:36
run. So it's an easy 10 for me as
3:01:37
well. Lovely.
3:01:39
Why was that? Well, we also put this out there
3:01:40
to the fellowship of ATRM patrons to get their thoughts,
3:01:44
and the response was overwhelmingly positive.
3:01:46
Of course it was so Kate Borowski said.
3:01:49
Solid 10 for 3 1/2 hours of very interesting walking.
3:01:53
The adventures along the way are varied.
3:01:54
The characters provide action with varying levels of bravery
3:01:57
and scale. The world created ranges from
3:01:59
sublime beauty to the darkest of dogs.
3:02:01
And there's still room for humor.
3:02:03
Yeah, presumably Kate referring to the dwarf.
3:02:05
Breathe so loud we could have shot him in the dark.
3:02:08
Very possibly. But that's a pretty good
3:02:10
description of the film. I think Philip Keats said, not
3:02:13
the biggest fan of the whole trilogy, but I do enjoy FOTR.
3:02:16
The film showed how great when in the right hands the fantasy
3:02:19
genre could be. FOTR in nine out of 10 for me.
3:02:22
You shall not pass. Right.
3:02:24
OK. We don't want new Phil.
3:02:25
No. And I think he's right about
3:02:27
fantasy. This did kind of rejuvenated,
3:02:29
didn't it? Oh, absolutely, yeah.
3:02:30
And Ben Carr said the direction, cast, score and action sequences
3:02:34
are incredible. It has aged like a fine wine and
3:02:37
act as the perfect example of the balance between CGI and
3:02:40
practical effects. I rewatch the extended edition
3:02:43
every year and still get a Shivia and Moria and June.
3:02:46
Borrow me as last stand. Classic good V evil for the ages
3:02:49
is genre defining A masterpiece. It's a 10.
3:02:52
Beautiful. Wonderful.
3:02:53
Annual extended edition rewatch is Ben was blocked out half
3:02:56
December every year. Yeah, I'll certainly do.
3:03:01
Yeah. A good evil story for the ages,
3:03:03
though I wouldn't disagree with that.
3:03:04
No, not at all. You know.
3:03:05
Pretty much universal praise from our patrons and all
3:03:08
together they read the film as What do you think out of 10?
3:03:11
I hope it's a 10. This needs to be straight across
3:03:14
the board. Yeah, I'll, I'll go 10.
3:03:16
Yeah. It was, of course, 10 out of 10,
3:03:19
yes. Man.
3:03:20
Wonderful fucking man. Like, give me again.
3:03:28
So in total, like it was a fellowship of the ring, 40 out
3:03:31
of 40. Boom.
3:03:33
An epic score which is appropriate for the epic.
3:03:35
Film indeed. Two, right?
3:03:36
Yeah. And that's just done on the
3:03:38
Fellowship of the Ring. Right.
3:03:40
Hopefully it hasn't made you want to walk barefoot.
3:03:42
The model no. We've just done that.
3:03:44
Haven't. We.
3:03:47
Well, next time out, Luke, Wesley and Matt are heading to a
3:03:49
remote Irish island full of failing friendships, flying
3:03:52
fingers and a donkey. Yes.
3:03:55
People Jenny. It's Martin McDonough, Colin
3:03:57
Farrell and the branches of Inner sharing.
3:04:00
Yes. The simplest story, that one.
3:04:03
Just a little. Yeah, yeah.
3:04:05
Back with McDonough and Farrell after in Brugge episode.
3:04:08
Yes, looking forward to that one.
3:04:09
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's a wonderful film, one
3:04:11
of the best films I've seen in the last 10 years.
3:04:13
Yeah, it's amazing, really. Looking forward to getting back
3:04:15
into it. Well, in the meantime, to find
3:04:16
out more about becoming an ATRM Patron, supporting what we do
3:04:19
and accessing our archive and bonus episodes and joining the
3:04:22
community of Great Fork in there, please visit
3:04:25
patreon.com/all the Right Movies.
3:04:28
Or you can subscribe on Spotify, Apple Podcasts or YouTube as
3:04:31
well. Yeah, socially and keep up with
3:04:33
all the right movies on X, where we are at AT Right movies.
3:04:37
And we post threads on there that tell the stories behind
3:04:39
classic films. Everything we post has been said
3:04:41
by somebody involved in the production.
3:04:43
Yeah, or it comes from three separate stories.
3:04:45
That's the same rule we follow on our podcasts.
3:04:47
So check that out. And you can find us on YouTube,
3:04:50
on Instagram, on Threads, on Blue Sky TikTok, and we have a
3:04:54
movie group on Facebook. Yeah, that's packed full of ball
3:04:57
grade people and great film chat.
3:04:59
Yeah, Join us. Try not to find with.
3:05:03
Exactly, and our website full of great stuff is all the right
3:05:06
movies.com. Sure is is.
3:05:09
We're all off now for second breakfast.
3:05:11
Or a lie down, Yeah. Breakfast for me, according to
3:05:14
Matt. Definitely. 3rd breakfast and a
3:05:17
bag of crisps. Come back for the bunch of
3:05:20
giving a sharing and as always, thanks for listening.
3:05:23
Thanks for listening guys. Thank you so much for listening
3:05:25
guys. Take care.