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Transcript

Managing People in the Workplace · She's On The Money

0:00
Speaker 1: Hello, my name's Santasha Nabananga Bamblet. I'm a proud yor
0:04
Speaker 1: the Order KERNI Whoalbury and a waddery woman. And before
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Speaker 1: we get started on She's on the Money podcast, I
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Speaker 1: would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land
0:14
Speaker 1: of which this podcast is recorded on a wondery country,
0:18
Speaker 1: acknowledging the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming
0:22
Speaker 1: through as this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing
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Speaker 1: and the storytelling of you to make a difference for
0:30
Speaker 1: today and lasting impact for tomorrow.
0:33
Speaker 2: Let's get into it.
0:34
Speaker 3: She's on the Money, She's on the Money.
0:57
Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money Podcas that's
1:00
Speaker 2: here to make your business smarter, your leadership shopper, and
1:03
Speaker 2: your workplace well less of a stress fest. I am
1:06
Speaker 2: Victoria Devine, retired financial advisor, author of the Business Bible,
1:11
Speaker 2: and owner of several successful businesses. It's never not going
1:15
Speaker 2: to be weird, Jessica saying that out loud, and today
1:18
Speaker 2: it's a Business Bible episode. But don't scroll away if
1:21
Speaker 2: you're not running your own business, because this one is
1:23
Speaker 2: jam packed with tips for anyone in the workplace, whether
1:27
Speaker 2: you're managing a team, working on your career, or just
1:29
Speaker 2: trying to navigate office life like a pro. We've got
1:33
Speaker 2: you covered, from building a team culture that slaps to
1:37
Speaker 2: handling those tricky Jessica, can we talk conversations? We're breaking
1:42
Speaker 2: down the top five HR rules to make work less
1:45
Speaker 2: complicated and dare I say, actually, enjoyable, love, be nice
1:49
Speaker 2: and joining me today? Is the hardest working side hustler.
1:52
Speaker 2: I know that thankfully doesn't have any employees, so it
1:55
Speaker 2: can be really rile on this show. It's just great you.
1:59
Speaker 4: Yeah, HR's the bin in my business.
2:00
Speaker 5: You're like, what.
2:03
Speaker 2: Time we did have a sticker on the shredder that
2:05
Speaker 2: said HR, Yeah, submit to your complaint there.
2:08
Speaker 4: I mean, it was a flawless system until.
2:10
Speaker 2: We had to grow up because we became an actual business.
2:13
Speaker 4: Yes, it is a really important conversation to have. Culture
2:18
Speaker 4: really is the foundation of any business. You obviously have
2:21
Speaker 4: studied organizational psychology VD, so I feel like you're gonna
2:25
Speaker 4: have a little bit more insight into how that kind
2:28
Speaker 4: of impacted the way that you manage people in the workplace.
2:32
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, does it ever? I feel like I
2:34
Speaker 2: wish I could just step into being a mediocre, middle
2:38
Speaker 2: aged white man middle manager.
2:39
Speaker 4: Would be nice.
2:40
Speaker 2: We'll be nice because they just don't care. They're like es,
2:43
Speaker 2: We've got to talk and then they will let you
2:44
Speaker 2: steal all weekend.
2:46
Speaker 4: Couldn't be me. Couldn't be dead before the meeting, wouldn't
2:48
Speaker 4: been me.
2:49
Speaker 2: Like I send meeting requests with catch up in brackets.
2:53
Speaker 2: Good thing. Don't worry, Yeah, because I am so worried
2:57
Speaker 2: that I'll stress you out over nothing. But I also
2:59
Speaker 2: have a very clean framework of performance management if things
3:04
Speaker 2: aren't going as well as they should, which is important. Yeah,
3:08
Speaker 2: I feel like yes and no, Like it's kind of
3:10
Speaker 2: like helped obviously, but it's also hindered not making it bad.
3:14
Speaker 2: But I do put a lot of pressure on myself
3:16
Speaker 2: to make sure that it's an enjoyable workplace and things
3:19
Speaker 2: are going well. And I don't know, I'm not a genius.
3:22
Speaker 2: I'm just a girl out here trying to do my best.
3:25
Speaker 2: We all, but we do have some rules, you know.
3:27
Speaker 4: All right? Tell me are these rules? What's number one?
3:29
Speaker 1: All right?
3:29
Speaker 2: So first things first, I think it's about getting really
3:32
Speaker 2: clear on your HR policies early and also knowing your
3:37
Speaker 2: legal obligations. So from my perspective, HR policies are kind
3:42
Speaker 2: of like the rule book of how your workplace should work,
3:46
Speaker 2: and there's a free one online, like you can go
3:48
Speaker 2: onto the fair Work website. They will have that HR
3:51
Speaker 2: Policies and Procedure document that you can download and edit
3:53
Speaker 2: to your heart's content. Without them, I think you're setting
3:57
Speaker 2: your team up for some confusion and inconsistency, an unnecessary drama.
4:01
Speaker 2: And then if you're also a first time employer, it's
4:05
Speaker 2: a really good expectation setter with you. You might not know
4:08
Speaker 2: that you have these obligations. Yeah, like you might go, oh,
4:11
Speaker 2: I didn't realize that I had to give them twenty
4:13
Speaker 2: four hours noticed for this type of meeting, or I
4:15
Speaker 2: didn't realize that I needed to do a B and C.
4:18
Speaker 2: And that doesn't mean that you're a bad manager. It
4:21
Speaker 2: just means you've not led people before. And if you
4:24
Speaker 2: have led people before and you don't know these obligations,
4:26
Speaker 2: it's a good reminder to go and do that. So
4:29
Speaker 2: clear policies protect everyone. I know that lots of people
4:33
Speaker 2: will say, well, HR's they are to protect the company,
4:36
Speaker 2: And from the perspective of an employer, yes, it is
4:41
Speaker 2: and why is it? Because if I'm doing the right
4:43
Speaker 2: thing by you, Jess, I'm protecting the company, Like I'm
4:47
Speaker 2: not here to do the wrong thing like HR, And
4:50
Speaker 2: having a HR person doesn't mean you can't take me
4:53
Speaker 2: to fair work if I did the wrong thing. It
4:55
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that you can't, you know, seek legal injunction
4:59
Speaker 2: if you need, Like, yeah, it doesn't protect me in
5:02
Speaker 2: that way. So yes, HR works for me, But at
5:05
Speaker 2: the end of the day, I employ them to look
5:07
Speaker 2: after you and by virtue, look after me. Like our
5:11
Speaker 2: HR makes sure that I know what policies and procedures exist.
5:15
Speaker 2: And surprisingly you can have internal HR, which we don't have,
5:18
Speaker 2: or external HR, which is like a consulting service that
5:22
Speaker 2: kind of come in a bit like a bookkeeper and
5:24
Speaker 2: just make sure that everything's all good. Like how would
5:27
Speaker 2: I know that employment law has changed if I've had
5:29
Speaker 2: my head in the podcast realm for the last month.
5:32
Speaker 2: They email me and they're like, hey, V just so
5:34
Speaker 2: you know, update XYZ with your bookkeeper to make sure
5:37
Speaker 2: that you're staying within the breadth of what you need to.
5:40
Speaker 4: Yeah, because as an employer, you have that responsibility, don't you.
5:43
Speaker 4: Hundred proceeds to make sure that you're on and.
5:46
Speaker 2: Like having a clear document or having a clear location
5:49
Speaker 2: to keep HR policies is going to mean that you know,
5:52
Speaker 2: everyone knows their rights, they know their responsibilities, and they
5:55
Speaker 2: also know how to handle things if things aren't going well.
5:58
Speaker 2: Like that's important.
6:00
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, What does that look like in action?
6:03
Speaker 2: So obviously starting with essentials, what's your onboarding process? Yes,
6:07
Speaker 2: ours is still rogue, I'm really sorry. What do you
6:10
Speaker 2: leave entitlement? So that should also be in your employment contracts?
6:13
Speaker 2: What do performance reviews look like? How are we going
6:16
Speaker 2: to do that? And also how are we handling conflict?
6:20
Speaker 2: You might and everyone does at the start of their business.
6:23
Speaker 2: Go it's sunshine and roses. There's never going to be
6:26
Speaker 2: conflict in my business.
6:29
Speaker 4: May well be conflict in your business.
6:31
Speaker 2: May your delumu come true? True, There's always going to
6:34
Speaker 2: be something, And it doesn't mean that the conflict lasts.
6:37
Speaker 2: It just means you need to have a process for
6:39
Speaker 2: talking it through and nipping it in the butt so
6:41
Speaker 2: that it doesn't become a bigger thing. But if there's
6:43
Speaker 2: no process, you're gone spiral and you don't know how
6:46
Speaker 2: to deal with it. So from my perspective, it's keep
6:49
Speaker 2: it simple. All processes should be as simple as possible.
6:53
Speaker 2: They should be super easy to understand, also accessible to everybody.
6:57
Speaker 2: It's not some policy that you've said that no one
6:59
Speaker 2: else is able to communicate. No one should have to,
7:02
Speaker 2: you know, decode some legal, bloody jargon just to understand
7:06
Speaker 2: how to apply for annual leve or to know what
7:08
Speaker 2: to expect during a performance review. And then this is
7:12
Speaker 2: my psychotic side stepping in document everything. Maybe this comes
7:18
Speaker 2: from my financial advice world probably, but like even when
7:21
Speaker 2: I've spoken to you about things, jess, what do I say?
7:24
Speaker 2: Send yourself an email? Yeap, doesn't even have to be
7:26
Speaker 2: this like super formal process. But if you email something
7:30
Speaker 2: to yourself, you are time stamping it. You can't edit that,
7:33
Speaker 2: you can't edit the time, and email ends up in
7:35
Speaker 2: your inbox. And if ever anything should happen, you can
7:38
Speaker 2: go back and find all of those things and say, well,
7:40
Speaker 2: actually I do remember what happened because I sent myself
7:44
Speaker 2: an email when it was still fresh in my mind
7:46
Speaker 2: of everything that happened. Here is my file note. So
7:51
Speaker 2: you could file note it properly. You could like do
7:53
Speaker 2: it on a word document. You could have like an
7:55
Speaker 2: internal cim that you might manage those things through, but
7:58
Speaker 2: at the very least it to yourself is really helpful.
8:02
Speaker 2: So obviously having a printed handbook fantastic. But if something's
8:06
Speaker 2: happening and you're having conversations with people, document them. I
8:10
Speaker 2: prefer that to be a waste of time because, like
8:12
Speaker 2: you know, I've never had to do this with you,
8:14
Speaker 2: thank god. But like if I had to have a
8:16
Speaker 2: serious conversation with you, Jess, I would send myself an
8:19
Speaker 2: email so that then I could go back and be like, well,
8:21
Speaker 2: what did I talk to Jess about the first time?
8:24
Speaker 2: You know, what did she say about this? So if
8:26
Speaker 2: there's a second follow up, I can be like, look, Jess,
8:28
Speaker 2: like documented it the first time, and this is what
8:29
Speaker 2: we said, this were the outcomes, this is what we've meant,
8:32
Speaker 2: this is what we haven't met. And I think that
8:34
Speaker 2: that's really important because time makes things cloudy. So if
8:40
Speaker 2: time passes and I'm like, oh, yes, I had to
8:43
Speaker 2: chat to you about this before, and you go, yeah,
8:45
Speaker 2: what was I meant to do again, and you go, oh,
8:47
Speaker 2: I don't remember. Yeah, unacceptable. Also, there's no way you wouldn't.
8:51
Speaker 4: Have documented it your Jess.
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Speaker 2: You would have come to the table.
8:55
Speaker 4: It's not the point.
8:56
Speaker 2: I'm just using it as an exactly, But I think
8:59
Speaker 2: reviewing and updating regularly because your team is going to grow,
9:02
Speaker 2: laws are going to change, Your policies might need tweaking
9:05
Speaker 2: to stay relevant. And I think summary of all of
9:08
Speaker 2: that is just have clear, documented HR policies. And if
9:12
Speaker 2: you have them and don't use them.
9:14
Speaker 4: That's great, amazing yah, But I'd prefer you.
9:17
Speaker 2: To have them and not need them, then need them
9:19
Speaker 2: and not have them.
9:20
Speaker 4: Oh one hundred percent. How would you approach building the
9:23
Speaker 4: team when you're making those first hiring decisions. Obviously you
9:27
Speaker 4: create first choice in me.
9:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, because she's on the money team started off on
9:31
Speaker 2: the best push. It wouldn't have done better. No, So
9:35
Speaker 2: I have a theory and it's called higher slow, fire fast.
9:39
Speaker 2: Oh it sounds real savage, but we have quite a
9:43
Speaker 2: recruitment process. If you're listening to this and you've ever
9:46
Speaker 2: been through it, I apologize, but I also don't because
9:49
Speaker 2: it means that you can find the right role and
9:51
Speaker 2: I can find the right fit. So it's about making
9:54
Speaker 2: sure that there are multiple points of contact. I don't
9:56
Speaker 2: just like have a coffee catch up with someone and
9:58
Speaker 2: be like, hey, yes, do you want a job like
10:00
Speaker 2: yess like you were put through even as my first hire,
10:04
Speaker 2: like online interview, interview, in person Q and a what
10:08
Speaker 2: would this look like? How would this work? I think
10:10
Speaker 2: even because I was into content for the Business Bible
10:12
Speaker 2: at that point, I made you go into a sound
10:14
Speaker 2: booth and like.
10:15
Speaker 4: We have that somewhere.
10:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, I made you record yourself and what you were feeling.
10:19
Speaker 2: Like that's probably not acceptable, not against just a bit weird,
10:26
Speaker 2: but at the end of the day, bringing somebody into
10:29
Speaker 2: your team is the biggest commitment ever. Like from my perspective,
10:34
Speaker 2: it's so scary as well, because like I don't know,
10:38
Speaker 2: I pay your income, Like that is a massive commitment
10:42
Speaker 2: and I don't want you to rush that process. And
10:45
Speaker 2: it's not just about your resume. It's also about how
10:48
Speaker 2: they bring themselves to the table. What they're like tenacity
10:51
Speaker 2: is like what their work values, their values, their cultural fit,
10:54
Speaker 2: their goals. Like So I think using multiple rounds of
10:58
Speaker 2: interviews is really smart and if possible, involve your team.
11:02
Speaker 2: So now that we do have a bigger team, whenever
11:04
Speaker 2: I'm hiring someone new, the first port of call will
11:07
Speaker 2: be a phone interview with somebody that's not me. Second
11:10
Speaker 2: port of call is an interview with me. And if
11:12
Speaker 2: all of that is going swimmingly, you get invited to
11:14
Speaker 2: an interview with some of the team members and I'm
11:17
Speaker 2: not there, And that's purposeful because then you can be like, Jess,
11:20
Speaker 2: what's that actually like? Working for me? What's your work
11:23
Speaker 2: life balance?
11:24
Speaker 4: Like?
11:24
Speaker 2: You know, what does your weekends look like? You know,
11:26
Speaker 2: what does you know, work task allocation look like? How
11:29
Speaker 2: does team communication go? What's work from home? Actually? You know,
11:32
Speaker 2: ask all those questions. But then the team can also
11:35
Speaker 2: work out if you're somebody that they would interact with
11:37
Speaker 2: consistently on a daily basis. You get a vibe, you
11:41
Speaker 2: get a feel, and I think that to just rely
11:44
Speaker 2: on a resume is silly.
11:46
Speaker 4: It's very outdated, isn't it?
11:47
Speaker 2: One hundred percent our data? And like Jess, lots of
11:50
Speaker 2: people applied for roles that you applied for and you
11:54
Speaker 2: got it and you didn't even have a degree because
11:55
Speaker 2: you were the right fit. And yeah, have I regretted that,
11:58
Speaker 2: Maybe a little, but no. But have I regretted that no?
12:03
Speaker 2: Because you've been here for years now and have been
12:05
Speaker 2: an integral part of the team. I don't regret that
12:08
Speaker 2: for a second. So I think it's so important to
12:11
Speaker 2: do that. But on the flip side, fire fast, I
12:14
Speaker 2: can tell you right now, if you talk to any
12:16
Speaker 2: manager who's hired someone you and they've known if it
12:18
Speaker 2: was a bad fit, they know within the first week,
12:21
Speaker 2: it does not mean that they do anything about that though,
12:24
Speaker 2: Like you need to nip that in the button, pull
12:27
Speaker 2: that person aside. Hey Barry, I'm really sorry, this just
12:30
Speaker 2: isn't working out for you or me. It gives them
12:31
Speaker 2: the opportunity to go find something that works for them,
12:34
Speaker 2: and you the opportunity to find the right team member.
12:36
Speaker 2: Like it can lower team morale having the wrong person
12:39
Speaker 2: on the team, like it can impact your productivity. It
12:42
Speaker 2: can even hurt that person in the role because they
12:44
Speaker 2: might thrive somewhere else. You're impacting their confidence, like yeah,
12:48
Speaker 2: if they're not good at that job, let them go.
12:51
Speaker 4: Like yeah, first, some people might hold on because they
12:54
Speaker 4: feel almost like a failure, like if they've made gone,
12:57
Speaker 4: oh I think I made the right decision, and then
12:58
Speaker 4: they go, oh, maybe it's not feeling right. Maybe they
13:02
Speaker 4: could go, oh, yeah, I was so confident or I
13:04
Speaker 4: saw XYZ. Yeah, but do you think it's fair to
13:07
Speaker 4: say that until you have someone doing the job in
13:10
Speaker 4: your team in routine, Like people can put their best
13:13
Speaker 4: foot forward in an interview and it just not translate
13:16
Speaker 4: in the way.
13:17
Speaker 2: And I think that you might look at me and go, Victoria,
13:20
Speaker 2: that's ruthless, that's awful, Like give them a chance if
13:24
Speaker 2: you can't show me your best in the first few
13:27
Speaker 2: weeks of your employment, like what is going on? Like
13:30
Speaker 2: a you not meant to put your best foot forward
13:32
Speaker 2: during that period of time. And it probably does sound ruthless,
13:35
Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, for me, it's
13:37
Speaker 2: about clarity, it's about respect, it's about being upfront and
13:41
Speaker 2: professional with that person. And I find that kinder than
13:44
Speaker 2: dragging it out and firing them in six months. Like
13:48
Speaker 2: I have interviewed and hired somebody before who had just
13:54
Speaker 2: got a new role, and I said, why are you here?
13:56
Speaker 2: Didn't you just say that you have a new role
13:58
Speaker 2: And they said, yeah, absolutely, I've been there for two
13:59
Speaker 2: weeks and it's absolutely not the right fit.
14:01
Speaker 4: Yeah.
14:01
Speaker 2: I had so much respect for that person because I
14:04
Speaker 2: was like, really, tell me about that, what does that mean?
14:07
Speaker 2: And ended up hiring them. They've stayed. It's fantastic. But
14:11
Speaker 2: I had so much respect because they knew to pull
14:14
Speaker 2: the trigger early, and they were like, I'm not going
14:16
Speaker 2: to waste the business's time. I feel like my time's
14:18
Speaker 2: being wasted.
14:19
Speaker 1: You know.
14:19
Speaker 2: The expectations they sat in the interview were not what
14:22
Speaker 2: it ended up being. Like, I have a lot more
14:24
Speaker 2: respect for that, and I've also got a lot more
14:26
Speaker 2: respect for other people that I'm not going to drag
14:28
Speaker 2: it out. Yeah, it's not fair.
14:30
Speaker 4: That feels reasonable to me.
14:31
Speaker 2: I feel like it does. But you know, on the
14:34
Speaker 2: flip side, if you just got your new job and
14:36
Speaker 2: then you find a week later you're not the right fit, doesn't.
14:40
Speaker 4: Yeah, but I guess hr or like you know, making
14:43
Speaker 4: hiring choices more broadly, you have to take the emotion
14:46
Speaker 4: out of it a little bit. It's one hundred and
14:47
Speaker 4: before out right you have to make the decision that's
14:49
Speaker 4: right for you, right for the team. Because as much
14:52
Speaker 4: as like in an I Do world, no one would
14:54
Speaker 4: ever hurt anybody's feelings and everyone would get along and
14:56
Speaker 4: everything would be perfect.
14:57
Speaker 2: See I agree, and I don't agree. So, like, taking
15:00
Speaker 2: the emotion out of it is important for clear decision making,
15:04
Speaker 2: and I do that, But then I think it's important
15:06
Speaker 2: to inject your personality and your ethics and your morals
15:10
Speaker 2: back into it to be empathetic. Yeah, one hundred percent.
15:13
Speaker 2: There is what fair work says you need to do. Right.
15:16
Speaker 2: So let's say we are terminating somebody, Like, there is
15:19
Speaker 2: what fair work says, I need to make sure that
15:22
Speaker 2: I give someone twenty four hours notice before I terminate
15:24
Speaker 2: their role. I need to offer them a support person
15:26
Speaker 2: all of that other stuff. But is that the kindest
15:30
Speaker 2: way to do it? Yeah, probably not. We'll do that
15:32
Speaker 2: as a bare minimum, but like, there are additional things
15:35
Speaker 2: that I can layer on top of that, like making
15:37
Speaker 2: sure that I have a very clear process of performance management.
15:41
Speaker 2: So if somebody isn't performing well, I'm not just going
15:44
Speaker 2: to go Okay, cool, we're done and I've given them warnings,
15:46
Speaker 2: but I haven't. I'm going to make sure that my
15:49
Speaker 2: language is clear, my warnings are clear. I'm going to
15:51
Speaker 2: make sure that when it comes to that termination process,
15:54
Speaker 2: I'm clear in giving feedback, because if I'm not giving
15:58
Speaker 2: that person feedback, I'm not helping them grow in the
16:01
Speaker 2: next role, and I'm setting them up for failure. And
16:03
Speaker 2: a lot of the time it's not a personal decision.
16:07
Speaker 2: It's a technical competency issue and going cool. We've tried X, Y,
16:11
Speaker 2: and Z and it's just not working. But what can
16:14
Speaker 2: I do to be the kindest in this situation because
16:16
Speaker 2: it feels like trash, But I'm quiet no one wants that. Yeah,
16:20
Speaker 2: So I think it's about making sure that you don't
16:22
Speaker 2: just take all the emotion out of it, because I
16:24
Speaker 2: think that empathetic leadership needs some level of emotion still
16:29
Speaker 2: to still have your wits about you. I'm not the devil.
16:32
Speaker 4: Yeah, do you know what I'm saying? Your boss?
16:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, like I am your boss, but also I'm not
16:37
Speaker 2: a dick. Or maybe I am, but like I try
16:39
Speaker 2: really hard not to be sometimes. But let's go to
16:42
Speaker 2: a really quick break. I feel like we're just getting started.
16:45
Speaker 2: After the break, I'm going to dive into I guess
16:47
Speaker 2: the secret source for keeping your workplace running smoothly everything
16:50
Speaker 2: from communication, feedback, and building a culture that people actually
16:54
Speaker 2: want to stick around for. So stay tuned.
17:00
Speaker 4: Alright, everyone, we're back vid. We've talked about policies and hiring,
17:05
Speaker 4: but once you've got the right people in place, what's
17:07
Speaker 4: the next step for making sure that everything does run
17:09
Speaker 4: smoothly culture culture culture without ah at the end, culture go.
17:14
Speaker 2: To make sure you have good culture. Culture is so important.
17:17
Speaker 2: But before you get culture, I feel like everybody throws
17:20
Speaker 2: this term of like, oh, culture is so important at work?
17:24
Speaker 2: Is culture that important? If you have shitty communication.
17:27
Speaker 4: Is shitty communication symptom of that culture exactly?
17:31
Speaker 2: So the first thing I want to talk about is communication.
17:34
Speaker 4: Great.
17:34
Speaker 2: It's funny because on our Friday Drinks episode, Jess, we're
17:37
Speaker 2: always like, oh, we've got a dilemma, and what said
17:40
Speaker 2: ninety nine point nine nine percent of the time, Oh,
17:42
Speaker 2: if you just communicated. Communication is that glue that sticks
17:47
Speaker 2: cell workplace together, Like it is something that you need
17:51
Speaker 2: to have open and flowing. But then also realize if
17:54
Speaker 2: a change is being made, often don't take it personally.
17:58
Speaker 2: So I think it's sometimes people will go, oh my god,
18:01
Speaker 2: my boss decided to implement like a rule where we
18:04
Speaker 2: only get forty five minutes of our lunch break. Why
18:07
Speaker 2: are we taking this so personally? Like it's just a rule.
18:10
Speaker 2: Someone's broken it great, No aries like pick it up,
18:12
Speaker 2: move forward, like we've just changed the way that we're working.
18:15
Speaker 2: But without good communication, where places start full part things
18:21
Speaker 2: start to get tricky and hard, and consistent and clear
18:23
Speaker 2: communication is going to keep you on track. It's going
18:26
Speaker 2: to mean that you stay aligned, but it's also going
18:28
Speaker 2: to reduce friction, and it's going to create an environment
18:31
Speaker 2: where everyone feels heard and informed. And on top of things,
18:34
Speaker 2: you've got four c's Jessica and I've talked about them
18:37
Speaker 2: before on the podcast. You've got clarity, consistency, context, and collaboration.
18:42
Speaker 2: And to have effective communication, you need to meet all
18:45
Speaker 2: four of these things. And it sounds lame, but having
18:49
Speaker 2: a framework makes life so much easier as a leader
18:52
Speaker 2: because so often I'll be like, but I told her
18:56
Speaker 2: in my head and then realize that maybe I didn't
18:59
Speaker 2: meet the four and that probably what's an effective communication.
19:02
Speaker 2: I was just busy and trying to get rid of it.
19:04
Speaker 2: So clarity is obviously being really specific, being really concise,
19:08
Speaker 2: like not saying things like oh, yes, we need to
19:10
Speaker 2: do better, great, saying something like okay, to do better,
19:15
Speaker 2: we need to deliver that draft by next Friday at
19:18
Speaker 2: four pm. Yeah, like being really clear. The next is consistency,
19:22
Speaker 2: So staying regular with your updates, making sure that things
19:25
Speaker 2: are shared, meetings via email or via slack repetition means
19:30
Speaker 2: that everybody is aligned. Context is important. If you tell
19:35
Speaker 2: me to do something and I don't know why or
19:36
Speaker 2: when or where a haw, like, how am I going
19:39
Speaker 2: to do that? Like? Oh, Jess, can you fix that project? What? Projects?
19:43
Speaker 4: And context is key even in just like the urgency
19:45
Speaker 4: like one hundred percent, like oh, the client doesn't like it?
19:48
Speaker 2: Can you change it? Yes?
19:49
Speaker 1: What?
19:50
Speaker 2: Like we need some context. So for example, instead of
19:53
Speaker 2: just asking, oh, can you make some changes because the
19:55
Speaker 2: client doesn't like it, saying the client asked for revisions
19:58
Speaker 2: to better align with their branding, the colors a bit off,
20:00
Speaker 2: could you please update it? They also would prefer to
20:03
Speaker 2: feature A instead of B.
20:05
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, no.
20:07
Speaker 2: Worries like Also, if you're providing context like oh, the
20:10
Speaker 2: client just didn't like it, that feels personal. Yeah, like ill, David,
20:14
Speaker 2: we are not making things personal. We're taking the personal
20:16
Speaker 2: out of it. Like clients can be frustrating. If any
20:19
Speaker 2: of my clients are listening, turn this off right now.
20:22
Speaker 4: Delight your old delights.
20:23
Speaker 2: But it can be very frustrating sometimes when a client
20:27
Speaker 2: gives you feedback not effectively communicated, not effectively communicated, and
20:31
Speaker 2: you can't manage that. Yeah, so manage your team. So
20:34
Speaker 2: I know that you have had this historically, just not
20:37
Speaker 2: at the moment, thank god, where a client has just said, oh,
20:40
Speaker 2: I don't like it, I want to make changes, and
20:42
Speaker 2: I've had to then go back to you just and
20:43
Speaker 2: be like, oh, the client doesn't like it. I need
20:45
Speaker 2: to then communicate with you. Look, the client has said
20:48
Speaker 2: they don't like it, they haven't given me a lot
20:50
Speaker 2: of context. Unfortunately, this is the feedback. Have a look
20:53
Speaker 2: at the emails. These are the communications I've had with
20:55
Speaker 2: them before, and like you and I have had to
20:57
Speaker 2: sit down and decipher maybe what they meant because we
20:59
Speaker 2: haven't able to do that. But if I said, oh,
21:02
Speaker 2: they just didn't like it, Jess and moved on, you
21:05
Speaker 2: think that I'm being a little bit flippant, Whereas the
21:08
Speaker 2: situation is a bit deeper than that. So when you
21:10
Speaker 2: have context, great share it. But if you don't have context,
21:14
Speaker 2: also share that you have no context of us a
21:16
Speaker 2: not yeah, and provide as much information on the fact
21:19
Speaker 2: that you're in the dark as well.
21:20
Speaker 5: Yeah.
21:21
Speaker 2: Is really important. And I think so many times issues
21:24
Speaker 2: arise because I'll be like, well, Jess, you didn't tell me,
21:28
Speaker 2: and then you go, oh, well, I wasn't told either,
21:30
Speaker 2: and I go, well, why didn't you tell me that
21:31
Speaker 2: you weren't told? It just becomes a whole thing and
21:34
Speaker 2: it doesn't need to be. And then the last one
21:36
Speaker 2: is collaboration. So we're creating a space for two way dialogue,
21:40
Speaker 2: which I have sadly done in my business, where you
21:44
Speaker 2: give me feedback as much as I'm giving you feedback,
21:46
Speaker 2: and it's actually a really good thing. So I'm asking you, guys, well,
21:50
Speaker 2: what's your perspective on this decision I'm making, and vice versa.
21:53
Speaker 2: So sometimes I'm humbled and I'm like, I've got this
21:56
Speaker 2: really great idea. It's called twenty twenty thrive, right, and
22:00
Speaker 2: name our whole thing twenty twenty thrive. You know what.
22:03
Speaker 2: My team came back and said, looks great, But Victoria,
22:06
Speaker 2: in text, it looks like you've said two zero tooth thrive.
22:09
Speaker 2: What's too zero tooth thrive?
22:11
Speaker 4: Yeah?
22:11
Speaker 2: Sounds good when I speak it. So twenty twenty thrive
22:16
Speaker 2: slay when you put it on a heading looks terrible
22:19
Speaker 2: and I needed to be humbled. So we're not using
22:22
Speaker 2: that as aggressively. We'll use it on the podcast, but
22:25
Speaker 2: it can't be a heading for something because it just
22:26
Speaker 2: doesn't translate. Yeah, can you imagine if my team were
22:30
Speaker 2: just agreeable, life would be easy but hard great, dear Victoria,
22:35
Speaker 2: that's and it really float everybody's vote like it would
22:40
Speaker 2: have been awful, right, So I think collaboration making sure
22:43
Speaker 2: that people feel safe to challenge, but also they feel
22:48
Speaker 2: confident to share their opinions, and that can be harder done.
22:52
Speaker 2: Then said, yeah, you really have to cultivate a safe
22:54
Speaker 2: speck because I know in my business, thankfully, you guys
22:58
Speaker 2: can be like Victoria, that is a terrible idea, and
23:01
Speaker 2: I'll be like fair. Whereas I'm sure that there are
23:04
Speaker 2: people listening to this. If they told their boss that
23:06
Speaker 2: something was a terrible idea, they'd be like, get out
23:08
Speaker 2: of my office, or even worse, you know what I mean.
23:12
Speaker 2: So you've got to read the room.
23:13
Speaker 4: So what I'm feeling is great. Communication isn't just about talking.
23:17
Speaker 4: It's about ensuring that everybody understands, they feel heard, they
23:20
Speaker 4: know next steps. I feel like, when in doubt, over
23:23
Speaker 4: communicate rather than assuming everyone's on the same page, because
23:26
Speaker 4: what they say, when you assume, you make an ass
23:29
Speaker 4: out of you and me.
23:30
Speaker 2: You've said that one time before I believe, well, first.
23:33
Speaker 4: What about when things aren't going as planned though, or
23:36
Speaker 4: if you need to maybe recalibrate the way that you're doing.
23:39
Speaker 2: It's almost like communication is key here. Yes, really, it's
23:42
Speaker 2: actually crazy. But I'm also going to say feedback, communicate feedback.
23:47
Speaker 2: The number four rule is make sure that you were
23:50
Speaker 2: using a framework for effective communication and effective feedback. It
23:55
Speaker 2: matters for so many different reasons.
23:58
Speaker 3: Right.
23:59
Speaker 2: You might think by just delivering some feedback and walking off,
24:02
Speaker 2: that's enough, and it's just really not.
24:03
Speaker 1: So.
24:04
Speaker 2: Feedback is one of the most powerful tools for people
24:06
Speaker 2: for personal and professional growth. And I think sometimes even
24:10
Speaker 2: framing it and being like, hey, like and thank god
24:14
Speaker 2: I haven't had to do this, I feel like I've
24:16
Speaker 2: given you feedback that you haven't liked before, but it's worked. Well. Hey, Jess,
24:21
Speaker 2: I'm going to give you some feedback. And I'm aware
24:23
Speaker 2: that this might not be the nicest thing to hear,
24:24
Speaker 2: but I hope you know that when I'm telling you this,
24:27
Speaker 2: it's coming from a place of love and wanting you
24:29
Speaker 2: to be better and do better. And I know you
24:31
Speaker 2: can as opposed to me being critical, right, and then
24:34
Speaker 2: you can go, oh, okay, you've kind of braced yourself
24:37
Speaker 2: for the feedback, but also you know that I'm aware
24:40
Speaker 2: that that could be a dick thing to share. I
24:42
Speaker 2: don't want you to immediately go v said that she
24:46
Speaker 2: hated my thing, and that can all in the delivery.
24:49
Speaker 2: When feedback is done correctly, it improves performance. It improves
24:54
Speaker 2: like the strength of your team, team dynamics. It builds trust,
24:57
Speaker 2: like I think that good feedeedback coming from somebody who
25:02
Speaker 2: wants you to do well is a gift, whereas some
25:05
Speaker 2: people think that just being rude or being like, well,
25:07
Speaker 2: I don't like it, Like, yeah, that's not feedback, that's opinion.
25:11
Speaker 2: And you need to decipher the difference between personal opinion
25:14
Speaker 2: and feedback as well. I think that's something that a
25:16
Speaker 2: lot of people don't do well. They will deliver it
25:20
Speaker 2: and be like, oh, I think that's terrible, and then
25:22
Speaker 2: it's like, well, actually doesn't meet the brief like you
25:25
Speaker 2: might not like this. You know, it happens a lot
25:27
Speaker 2: in marketing, like people will say that they don't like something,
25:31
Speaker 2: but it's actually personal opinion, and then you realize there's
25:33
Speaker 2: a lot of research behind why it's presented that way.
25:36
Speaker 2: Have a think about how you're delivering it and where
25:38
Speaker 2: this feedback is coming from. On the flip side, if
25:41
Speaker 2: you're giving bad feedback, poor feedback, or even no feedback
25:44
Speaker 2: at all, it leaves people a bit confused. They're like,
25:47
Speaker 2: I don't know what I'm doing, I don't know how
25:48
Speaker 2: to do this. They're unmotivated, they might be a little
25:51
Speaker 2: bit resentful, and I think that is a really awful
25:55
Speaker 2: position to be in. It doesn't help for the culture, naysaka,
25:58
Speaker 2: and we're all about the culture one hundred percent. So
26:01
Speaker 2: this is where you want to use a framework again,
26:04
Speaker 2: and my favorite framework is the situation impact action framework.
26:09
Speaker 2: So if you're giving feedback, let's do a little role
26:11
Speaker 2: play example. So you're going to describe what happened, so
26:14
Speaker 2: the situation focusing only on the facts. So example, in
26:19
Speaker 2: the last meeting, you spoke over Sarah while she was
26:22
Speaker 2: sharing her thoughts. Sarah doesn't exist while she was sharing
26:28
Speaker 2: her ideas. And then you're going to explain the impact.
26:32
Speaker 2: So we're not going to talk about how on I
26:34
Speaker 2: just don't think that's very enough. No no, no, no, no,
26:36
Speaker 2: cut that out. We don't care about that. You're then
26:38
Speaker 2: going to explain why it matters and how it affected
26:40
Speaker 2: the team or the project. So it really interrupted her
26:44
Speaker 2: flow and made it harder for her to fully explain
26:46
Speaker 2: her point, and then she just seemed a bit hesitant
26:48
Speaker 2: to speak up again.
26:49
Speaker 4: Valid.
26:50
Speaker 2: Valid. Then what's the action, So we're not just going
26:54
Speaker 2: to be like you spoke over somebody made her feel
26:57
Speaker 2: bad and drop the mic and walk out. What behavior
27:01
Speaker 2: do we want modeled in the future. Look, let's just
27:04
Speaker 2: make sure that everyone gets to finish their thoughts before
27:07
Speaker 2: we jump in. I know you're really excited about that
27:09
Speaker 2: and really enthusiastic, So maybe just take a quick pause
27:12
Speaker 2: to check if anyone is like still speaking, make sure
27:15
Speaker 2: they're done before you're jumping in.
27:17
Speaker 4: Great, really simple.
27:18
Speaker 2: When you're really simple, really easy, it's not about personal opinion,
27:22
Speaker 2: which I think is where feedback gets really cloudy. Yeah,
27:25
Speaker 2: it sets you out for success. And they're probably going
27:28
Speaker 2: to go, yeah, you're right, that will help me.
27:30
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a simple thing. They know exactly what they
27:32
Speaker 4: need to do, no harm, no file, they can fix
27:35
Speaker 4: it for an extra.
27:35
Speaker 2: And it's funny because that example would literally never happen
27:38
Speaker 2: with you, Jessica. It would happen with me. I speak
27:40
Speaker 2: over everybody, I do and you are like the thoughtful
27:44
Speaker 2: one that goes, oh I have a point.
27:47
Speaker 4: And they raise my hand.
27:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, like you put your hand up or something, so
27:50
Speaker 2: like that's a terrible example. If you were imagining Jessica
27:53
Speaker 2: in it, just imagine that that was being delivered to me,
27:56
Speaker 2: because I would feel much better if someone was like, oh,
27:59
Speaker 2: you did this thing and it impacted somebody else in
28:01
Speaker 2: the future, you need to do this. I'd be like, Okay, cool,
28:03
Speaker 2: no worries. Yeah, Whereas if somebody was giving me feedback
28:05
Speaker 2: and they're like, stop talking over jess I'd be like, oh, sorry,
28:09
Speaker 2: and you.
28:09
Speaker 4: Feel bad about yourself and that doesn't help anything.
28:11
Speaker 2: It doesn't help anyone or anything, because then I don't
28:13
Speaker 2: even realize when I did that. Was it at lunch
28:16
Speaker 2: or was it at dinner? Like do I do it
28:17
Speaker 2: all the time, Like, yeah, we're nipping it in the butt?
28:20
Speaker 4: Can I say yeah? I also think it's really important
28:23
Speaker 4: when using this framework to think about who you're delivering
28:27
Speaker 4: to in the way that they lack to receive feedback.
28:29
Speaker 4: And I think a particularly relevant example is exactly what
28:31
Speaker 4: you were just saying with how you interrupt. For you,
28:34
Speaker 4: it's because of you and neurodiversity, and I think I'm.
28:37
Speaker 2: Glad I have an excuse.
28:38
Speaker 4: Yeah, But I think it's also like really important when
28:42
Speaker 4: we're talking about like, obviously this is a great broad framework,
28:45
Speaker 4: but people are so unique and the way that I
28:48
Speaker 4: receive feedback, the way you receive feedback, I think getting
28:51
Speaker 4: to know your team and I feel like we're going
28:53
Speaker 4: to maybe talk about this a little bit in about
28:54
Speaker 4: five seconds. Maybe I'm really ahead, am I hot rut?
28:56
Speaker 4: But I think like that's a really important thing and
29:00
Speaker 4: acknowledging that certain behaviors may be results of your adversity
29:04
Speaker 4: or past experience or things like that as well.
29:07
Speaker 2: And I know that talking over people can be perceived
29:10
Speaker 2: as being incredibly rude, right, but I think we're at
29:13
Speaker 2: a point in our team. I'm not saying it's acceptable.
29:15
Speaker 2: I do try my best, please, I'm not saying that
29:19
Speaker 2: that's okay, But I think that when I do that
29:22
Speaker 2: accidentally now, still people aren't like Victoria thinks she's more important,
29:27
Speaker 2: Like I think that because we fully comprehend each other
29:30
Speaker 2: and I've shared that, people are like, oh, she's just
29:33
Speaker 2: so excited about the next point. Yeah, And sometimes the
29:36
Speaker 2: teams like they sit down like go back two steps,
29:39
Speaker 2: Please go back two steps, because we're actually not talking
29:41
Speaker 2: about that yet. We're still not done here. And I
29:44
Speaker 2: think that that can be a really good way of
29:46
Speaker 2: managing it as well. Like a lot of people might
29:48
Speaker 2: take personal offense, be like, oh my god, I can't
29:50
Speaker 2: believe Victoria's spoke over me again in that meeting. It's
29:54
Speaker 2: not because I don't respect you. I've promised you that.
29:56
Speaker 2: And I think that having that context is really really important.
30:00
Speaker 4: I completely agree, and I think it filters really nicely
30:02
Speaker 4: into creating that great team culture. How do you make
30:06
Speaker 4: sure that you know, whatever business company culture you're building
30:09
Speaker 4: is something that people actually want to be a part of.
30:12
Speaker 2: You've actually just got to post on social media all
30:14
Speaker 2: the time. Oh yeah, I've got a post like really
30:18
Speaker 2: attractive pictures of yourself and your team, like and your
30:22
Speaker 2: team loving you. That's how to do good culture.
30:25
Speaker 4: End the episode there.
30:26
Speaker 2: In fact, do you know what's funny about that is
30:28
Speaker 2: I have met so many people who have been like, oh, actually,
30:31
Speaker 2: our internal team culture is nothing like you see online.
30:34
Speaker 4: And I think that's a very common thing.
30:36
Speaker 2: I think it's a very common thing for businesses to
30:38
Speaker 2: be posting online about this and thinking that culture comes
30:41
Speaker 2: from what the content they share. And I think it's
30:44
Speaker 2: important to point out because I'm so aware of that, Like,
30:47
Speaker 2: I think you and I can agree, I don't even
30:50
Speaker 2: have to agree to this, but like our team will
30:52
Speaker 2: probably be like, yeah, what you see online is exactly
30:54
Speaker 2: how we are in person, because it's just what naturally happens.
30:58
Speaker 2: But I think building culture starts from internal, and it
31:04
Speaker 2: starts from the top. So like, if I'm not role
31:07
Speaker 2: modeling the behaviors that I expect, how do I expect
31:09
Speaker 2: other people doing them? And if we're not doing them internally,
31:12
Speaker 2: how are we expecting people to see them on the outside.
31:15
Speaker 2: How are we expecting to talk about how great we
31:17
Speaker 2: are if we're not actually great internally. I can't think
31:20
Speaker 2: of anything more mortifying than being like, yeah, I really
31:22
Speaker 2: respect my team and then my team in the background
31:24
Speaker 2: rolling their eyes like ill. That gives me the ick
31:27
Speaker 2: so hard. So if we think about the best workplace
31:31
Speaker 2: culture we can, we're going to imagine people are super
31:34
Speaker 2: engaged and supported and they're genuinely happy to show up,
31:37
Speaker 2: and that kind of energy doesn't just happen. And I
31:40
Speaker 2: guess the opposite is a workplace where tension and competition
31:44
Speaker 2: end up taking over and nobody feels valued and then
31:47
Speaker 2: everyone just waits for the countdown five o'clock when they
31:50
Speaker 2: can run out of their laptop, shut bag on back.
31:53
Speaker 2: And bad culture drains teams and it fuels turnover and
31:56
Speaker 2: it kills productivity, and I mean a thriving colture. It
32:00
Speaker 2: doesn't just boost morale. It actually turns your workplace into
32:03
Speaker 2: a place that people want to stay and grow and
32:06
Speaker 2: do their best. And I'm very lucky that I used
32:09
Speaker 2: to work as a culture and engagement consultant and so
32:12
Speaker 2: I work on a say, stay and thrive model. So
32:16
Speaker 2: that's my concept that I work on. And if you
32:20
Speaker 2: can meet all three of these things, I think you're
32:22
Speaker 2: well on the way to having a good team culture
32:24
Speaker 2: internally and externally. And whether you're an employer this applies obviously,
32:28
Speaker 2: But if you're an employee, having a think about this. So,
32:30
Speaker 2: I want people to be saying good things about my
32:33
Speaker 2: business when I'm not around. You don't need to say
32:35
Speaker 2: it in front of me. That doesn't matter. But like
32:36
Speaker 2: imagine Jess, You're at a barbecue on the weekend and
32:39
Speaker 2: someone says, Jess, where do you work? And you say,
32:41
Speaker 2: I work a cheese of the money. Are you going
32:43
Speaker 2: to go, oh, I work at cheese on the money
32:45
Speaker 2: and they go how is it? And then you go whatever,
32:47
Speaker 2: let's not talk about work, or you go, oh my gosh,
32:49
Speaker 2: I love my job. I do this, I do that right,
32:51
Speaker 2: So I want people saying good things. The second is stay.
32:55
Speaker 2: So that's about tenure and having low turnover. Are people
32:59
Speaker 2: indentivized and want to stay with the company, Like, are
33:03
Speaker 2: they in a position where they want to stay for
33:07
Speaker 2: the longevity? Do they see a career there, do they
33:09
Speaker 2: see that they are respected and you know, enjoying it,
33:13
Speaker 2: or are they looking for a new job. Yeah, So
33:15
Speaker 2: I want to meet those two. And then the third
33:16
Speaker 2: one is the strive component. And I feel like this
33:19
Speaker 2: strive component it is something that you can't pay people for.
33:23
Speaker 2: You can pay people all the money in the world,
33:26
Speaker 2: but this is about cultural fit and hiring the right
33:28
Speaker 2: people because if you have hired the right people, they
33:32
Speaker 2: will strive for your business. They will go above and beyond.
33:35
Speaker 2: They won't have to be asked to go above and
33:37
Speaker 2: beyond because if you have a good culture, you're not
33:39
Speaker 2: asking people to stay late. But you'll notice things happening
33:42
Speaker 2: in the background. Like they're saying good things about your business.
33:44
Speaker 2: They are you know, promoting it. They're you know, staying
33:47
Speaker 2: in their role and they're going above and beyond because
33:50
Speaker 2: they feel respected and they feel like, you know, they're
33:54
Speaker 2: really contributing to the greater good. They understand that there's
33:56
Speaker 2: effective and clear leadership. They understand that there is you know,
34:00
Speaker 2: career opportunities for them on the table, or you know what.
34:03
Speaker 2: Not everyone's looking for career opportunities. Some people just want
34:06
Speaker 2: a steady job and that's cool too, But like they
34:08
Speaker 2: understand that their position is respected. And I think that
34:12
Speaker 2: that's what culture looks like in action. So those three
34:16
Speaker 2: things are going to contribute to having highly engaged employees.
34:20
Speaker 2: And to go back to me being a culture and
34:22
Speaker 2: engagement consultant, we know that businesses that have engaged employees
34:27
Speaker 2: have fifty percent higher shareholder return than businesses that have
34:31
Speaker 2: disengaged employees. That crazy, So just by focusing on culture,
34:37
Speaker 2: you are impacting the bottom line of your business. Yeah,
34:40
Speaker 2: And like I could go into it for days. We
34:42
Speaker 2: don't have time, but I could go into it for
34:44
Speaker 2: days about how your team are, what makes your business
34:49
Speaker 2: successful and That's why often when I'm interviewed or I'm
34:52
Speaker 2: talking to people and they're like, you've done so well,
34:54
Speaker 2: and I'm I guess it's not me, it's my team.
34:56
Speaker 2: I'm not even flipping it off me. I'm like, I
34:59
Speaker 2: wouldn't be where I would be today without a solid team.
35:02
Speaker 2: But my solid team comes from being respected and having
35:05
Speaker 2: that back and forth relationship. And I mean, to me,
35:09
Speaker 2: good culture is the difference between a workplace people endua
35:13
Speaker 2: and a workplace people thrive in. And so I think
35:17
Speaker 2: when you create a culture of the lines with your
35:19
Speaker 2: team's values and makes them feel connected, you're not just
35:23
Speaker 2: building a team, You're kind of building loyalty and creativity
35:26
Speaker 2: and success. They can still leave though, because we had
35:31
Speaker 2: a team and believe more than a year ago now.
35:33
Speaker 2: And I think it's so important to understand where you sit.
35:38
Speaker 2: So like, obviously I've done say stay and strive and
35:41
Speaker 2: stays great, But like, what if you outgrow the role,
35:44
Speaker 2: that doesn't mean that you become disengaged with a culture.
35:47
Speaker 2: If somebody in my business has outgrown a role, For example,
35:51
Speaker 2: Gabby in our business, so I could talk about her
35:53
Speaker 2: because she loved this. She worked in marketing, in our business.
35:57
Speaker 2: She started as EA, worked her way up, did market,
36:00
Speaker 2: and then God offered an epic marketing role at the AFL.
36:03
Speaker 2: I can't compete with that. Yeah, so what am I
36:06
Speaker 2: going to do? Be mad about that or be grateful
36:10
Speaker 2: that I got to be along the journey of that. Yes,
36:12
Speaker 2: I loved the fact that we got to be a
36:14
Speaker 2: part of her journey. I was sad that she was leaving,
36:16
Speaker 2: but now I'm so proud that she's on the money
36:18
Speaker 2: helped her get there.
36:19
Speaker 4: Yeah, slay Absolutely. I feel like those five rules set
36:23
Speaker 4: a really good foundation for HR and for managing people
36:26
Speaker 4: in general, not even just from like a business owner perspective,
36:30
Speaker 4: but also just anyone in the workplace. You know, these
36:32
Speaker 4: are the things that you want to be looking for.
36:33
Speaker 4: This should be the standard that we're holding our employers to. Yeah.
36:37
Speaker 2: And if you have listened to this and you're like,
36:39
Speaker 2: I'm not say, I'm not stay, I'm not strived, look
36:42
Speaker 2: for a new job, I'm sorry to the employers listening,
36:44
Speaker 2: but like, if you're not doing those three things, you're
36:46
Speaker 2: not engaged, and it's good for them that you're going
36:49
Speaker 2: to move on. But also it's great for you because
36:52
Speaker 2: you've got to find somewhere that you actually feel valued totally, absolutely,
36:57
Speaker 2: And I think if you're running your own business, or
36:58
Speaker 2: managing a team, or you just to be a better
37:00
Speaker 2: cowork or friend at work, these rules are universal. It's
37:03
Speaker 2: all about setting clear expectations and fostering open, honest communication
37:08
Speaker 2: and building a culture where people actually want to show
37:11
Speaker 2: up to a big one. Oh, I think we've done
37:13
Speaker 2: for today. But before we wrap up, Jess in the
37:15
Speaker 2: new year, Business Bibles having a glow up.
37:18
Speaker 4: We love to see it, we do.
37:20
Speaker 2: We're giving Business Bible its own dedicated feed again. That
37:24
Speaker 2: is right. It is getting a revamp. There are some
37:26
Speaker 2: really fun things planned and I know you're going to
37:28
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37:33
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Speaker 2: on the shees on the Money feed. Whether you're already
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Speaker 2: a loyal Business Bible fan, thank you, or you're new
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37:44
Speaker 2: Big things are coming and I cannot wait to share
37:47
Speaker 2: with you what we have been working on behind the scenes.
37:49
Speaker 4: Oh, it's so exciting. I'll be hitting subscribe asap.
37:53
Speaker 2: I love that you better because it's twenty twenty. Thrive
37:57
Speaker 2: next year, Jessica.
37:58
Speaker 4: We love it whether we use.
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Speaker 2: That in audio all the time.
38:01
Speaker 4: Have a good rest of your week, guys.
38:03
Speaker 2: Bye. The advice shared on She's on the Money is
38:11
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