Latest / Stronger Business Together / E11 Am I Being to Salesy? With Helen Tebay
Transcript
- Granger Forson: So this is the Stronger Business Together podcast where business owners learn from other business owners. No theory, no gory, just real journeys and overcoming real hurdles. Today I'm joined by Helen Tebay who runs The Sales Lady and like every owner she's in that middle of building something, fixing something and growing something that really matters to her. So welcome Helen. Thank you for spending your time with us today. We're on a mission to make business owners stronger together. If this conversation has helped you, please comment and follow on whatever platform you're using. About 60 % of our audience haven't done that, and these small actions will help us reach more business owners just like you. If you want to join the conversation as a guest, or if you have a hurdle question for us to tackle, reach out to us at info at strongerbusinesstogether.com. Now. Helen The Sales Lady: Hi Granger, thank you so much for inviting me to the podcast. Hello everyone. Granger Forson: You're most welcome. So let's do act one. business. So in plain English, what does your business do? Helen The Sales Lady: Yeah, so my business is service-based. I help service-based business owners to essentially like sell and market themselves in the best way for them ⁓ that they can ⁓ three major outcomes. The first one is more consistent revenue. The second one is to do that in a way that plays to their strengths and that creates that balance of what they want for their business. ⁓ Granger Forson: Go make it really successful week and we'll see you next time. Cheers! Helen The Sales Lady: If they want to work three day weeks, four day weeks, just school hours, we can make it work. And the other is to create the result in a repeatable way. So we don't just get one spike in a month and we think that's great. I've made a 10K month, but I don't know how to do it again. So there's an element of them feeling able to replicate repeat and that brings the control for them. So we help business owners to make the revenue goals that they want. but to do it in a sustainable way for them and a way that they enjoy and to do it over and over again. Granger Forson: Fantastic. Yes, we all want that as business owners, don't we? So do you love helping then? You talked about service based industries, but who do you love helping? What are they typically dealing with? ⁓ Helen The Sales Lady: Yeah, sure. So I didn't really mean to get this as a niche and I think sometimes people really try and force a niche down and I'm a big believer the niche will just find you. So my background is pharmaceuticals and engineering and manufacturing so naturally I started off there and I do help a couple of business owners in that arena but they tend to be more ⁓ service based online so coaches, consultants, experts, specialists. Generally people, HR consultants, L &D trainers, anybody that's got like a techie financial, like, you know, they've got a skill, a specialism. And their main stress that they have is they haven't worked out yet how to sell and market that specialism. see business owners that are very stuck and it's very natural. I went through this as well. get stuck in the, is what I want to say. This is what I do. And people ⁓ are buying don't... they need to hear and see different things from you. We haven't quite learned how to translate that offer into something that's valuable, that people understand, that feels doable and easy. don't think about things from like the receiver point of view. It's very normal for our brains to do that, by the way, but that's what we do. And then we're like, yeah, it feels like no one wants it or I need a bigger audience or, you LinkedIn doesn't work for me, networking doesn't work for me. And we come up with all these reasons why ⁓ we don't have what we want. actually we've got everything that we kind of need. Most people I speak to have an audience, ⁓ have an offer, they just haven't done the work to get really certain on it. ⁓ it's that certainty that I think your buyers are wanting to feel from you and you haven't quite done that work yourself. So when you get into conversations, sales we've got massive issues about feeling salesy, looking salesy, don't want to be that. pushy salesperson and we have a little bit of confusion in our offer and how it all works. We're not very certain on it either. So we've got like a couple of things that are scupper in us. And so of course it's easy to then go out and think, I'll just get a new strategy. need an email list or I know what I'm going to do. Similar to what you and I do, we will do a podcast and it, rinse and repeat and it doesn't work. So it's cause we're fixing the wrong problems. I see people trying to solve the wrong problem in like the hardest way as well. It's like a dual-wummy for us. It's hard. Yeah. Granger Forson: Yeah, yes, very true, very true. Wow, fantastic. Yeah, no, I really understand that, difficulty that we have to break those difficult problems. But actually, we've got all those capabilities. We've got that. We just don't see how to bring that to bear and actually make it successful for us. So brilliant. So tell me, how did your business start? What was that spark? Helen The Sales Lady: You Yeah, I think I just thought if I was working so hard for these other companies that maybe if I worked that hard for myself, I could create something more than what like a salaried wage would be and I create more impact in the world. I was actually so tired of hearing people disengage with sales when I'd kind of found this groove of in a really fun way and a way that felt very natural. I was like, what are they seeing? What are they doing? What are they thinking about selling that, you know, I must think something different here because it's not the same experience for me. ⁓ I see so many people in the world have these amazing skills and ⁓ that they've honed for years and decades and they really just were struggling to sell. And then I was in a corporate sales role and it's not like I wasn't valued, you know I was, but it just wasn't ticking the boxes anymore. know, I think I really wanted to go and create something that was not someone else's vision, it was mine. And so I kind of just married the two together and thought well if I was going to do something, what would I do? And I'm thinking well, you if more people can sell and feel really good about it, I mean, what does that open up in the world? for more businesses, more people in commerce, more sales equal, if you just look at it like that, just absolutely keeps compounding out. And so I thought, well, let's give it a go. And so I handed my notice in and there we go, that's it. Granger Forson: excellent. ⁓ how have been going and what does the business look like today in size and shape? Helen The Sales Lady: Yeah sure so I think it's year five now, yeah year five it of it looks very similar in terms of structure but it feels like everything's changed because it has ⁓ so is me predominantly but what I have learned along the way is that there's other people that have better skills at things and relinquishing that control before you need to it is probably better I needed to delegate things out way sooner than what I did. I thought keeping it with me was best. And actually when I see some of the amazing skill sets that my like VA has, my videographer, the person who helps me with all my visuals and things, you know, I'm like, they're way better skilled than me. So I should have hired them sooner. So I've got, I haven't got people on the payroll, but there are people that I have contracted to help and support. So I see it as like we have a little mini team here at the Sales Lady. essentially it's still me making the decisions with the vision ⁓ we sometimes have team meetings and things like that. So that's exciting. But it's me with my biggest goal, driving that forward to get as many people as I can in my lifetime and my legacy to see something different in selling. And I'm aiming for a million people. So please, that audience is part of that. So hopefully they'll hear something today that for them. So busy ⁓ marketing putting that out there, that's, you know, and helping and coaching. that I'm delivering and marketing, I'd say that's my two things. And got people to help with the other stuff. Whereas when I started, it was me learning how to do everything. So we've traded. Granger Forson: Fantastic. No. Which is often we start anyway, as small business owners, ⁓ learn that, but absolutely you learn quickly to outsource those key skills, ⁓ people to experts do that. And I love that you're ⁓ those, but you're still treating us as a team, and that's really important. That's how you keep that real knowledge of structure that helps you ⁓ what you want to do. If you're just purely outsourced. Helen The Sales Lady: Yeah. Granger Forson: then actually you're going to lose some of that control. So fantastic. Really, really like that. And that really does work. why do customers pick you? do you delight them? Helen The Sales Lady: Oh, what a great question. Oh my God, how do I do that? How do they pick me and how do I delight them? Oh my goodness. What a question. How do they pick me? Well, when I think back to some of the people who've, you know, throughout the start and during and where we are now, if we take like a cross section, I think the thing that comes up is that they were like, you sounded different when it came to selling. ⁓ lot of people out there are like tactical, you know, we have this whole like hustle bro marketing, like era that we've come out of. don't really subscribe to that. am very much, for me, sales, ⁓ when when people truly value selling, ⁓ you to spend time ⁓ doing and making offers and helping people and being valuable. And sales is the, the utmost value that you, that's how people get access to that. So I think that they hear and see that and they experience it and I give a lot to my network. And so I think they were like, you just look and sound different and you're very, whether I meet you in person or whether I do a webinar with you or whether we're on a podcast, people tend to come and say, was ⁓ good from a, it sounded, it landed, it was simple, it was doable. ⁓ broke it down in a way that no one's ever made it feel like that before. when I coach, think I, and I know myself, you know, in the start of my coaching career, there's some questions now that I would, I wouldn't have gone there before because too scared to ask them because what it opened up, I didn't feel like comfortable as a coach to deal with that. now it's like, I'm just going to ask the questions ⁓ and trust that my brain will, will help me. There is a pathway, there is a pattern, there is a ⁓ methodology to ⁓ the customer to. ⁓ where they need to be. So we ask the questions that a lot of people say I've had coaches before, but no one's ever kind of coach like you. And so I think that oozes out in the marketing and everything that I do. And so people are like, this sounds really doable. This sounds like I could take this and use it. I haven't even paid her yet. You know, this is amazing. She's already, I've had people come to my webinars and then tell me you've kind of fixed partially my sales issue, you know, in one webinar. And I'm like, imagine what we would do if we worked together. know, and so it's that, I it's that experience, what they get when they engage with me is different from the off and then ⁓ carries throughout when we coach. So I think how do I delight people is we get to the nub. So yes, we'll do the sales strategy stuff. That's what people tend to come in wanting, ⁓ but know we have to shift certain identities. ⁓ One the things that is a killer, a belief killer. of sales is like, don't want to be too salesy. I don't want to come across like that salesy, pushy car salesman person that'll kill the business like dead. Cause you won't want to sell. You won't want to make offers. You won't want to spend time selling. You don't value it enough yet. So that's the, that's what's different. I think we get it to the identity belief level and then we do the strategy stuff as well. Granger Forson: Wow, that's some really in-depth thinking there. Fantastic. Without mentioning any names, give us a customer success that you're really proud of. Helen The Sales Lady: Yeah, so one of the recent that we've had ⁓ is gentleman that was in the finance sector ⁓ and was a really accomplished business owner, ⁓ know, like six figures, but he to reach the next goal. I think it was 350k or half a million, I can't remember. It was like there was another revenue goal that he wanted to get to ⁓ and he get past it. And he built lots of systems and processes in his business. ⁓ He, like I say, really accomplished business on it, but he started to just creep in and spend more time with the thoughts that stopped him from making offers and stopped him from asking his clients to make decisions. So he was having nice chats, they weren't going anywhere. And I was like, where did this creep in? And he was like, I don't really know, but it's just, I'm afraid to get nos, ⁓ you cause we're trying to, this has been exasperated because he had the aspiration to get a new revenue goal. So if we start offering more, know, and putting more offers out and having more conversations and it doesn't work, you know, it's just safer to stay where we are. And so that's what was happening. And we had a look at his identity around asking people to decide and asking people to make decisions. He thought it was really pushy. And actually we shifted that and he saw that. When people come in to get help, that's what they need. They need the offer of help. And the moment when they decide to get the help is when they get the help. It's when everything changes for them. And they're the one with the problem with all the symptoms. doesn't have the problem, he has the solution. But you forget what it's like when you're not the one knee deep the symptomatic feeling of that problem. And so we got him to think of it from his client's point of view, his potential buyer's point of view of like, you come into this, you get what you need. And then he's like, well, I'll just email you and you you go off and have a think about it. And they don't want to think about it. They want to buy, but we can't, we're pushing them away. So he saw these like little crafty little patterns that just feel really reasonable and normal. And like, it felt like we were being in service, but actually we were not. The highest service is making an offer to someone to get them out of situation that they're in. So we just weren't doing the most valuable thing. And so we had to reset his thoughts about selling. And then we got some strategy. We did a little bit of marketing work. He wanted to release an email list and a newsletter. And he's gone from, I can't remember the figures, but it was like 40 % more. Granger Forson: Mm-hmm. Helen The Sales Lady: So we did the new goal and some. ⁓ was delighted. So from a financial point of view, I think the biggest win for him ⁓ the whole like, yes, the money's there, but I know how to create it. I know what stopped it so I can be onto myself before we had processes, framework, structures, techniques that he, ⁓ he can't like unlearn them. ⁓ Granger Forson: Brilliant. Helen The Sales Lady: So we fixed it from the identity point of view first, which makes it a stronger, more robust solution. Granger Forson: Yes. Some of the stuff that I've learned to understand about sales as we're moving forwards in my business is actually we're there to help somebody make a decision. Do they want that problem solved or do they not? Yes or no? Not a, oh maybe can I get back to you? It's like, well, is this real? Do you want to make this happen? Or actually, no, you're not interested at this moment. Fantastic, I'm not going to disturb you anymore. That's the purpose is to make a decision. So yeah, fantastic, I love that. Helen The Sales Lady: Yeah. Yeah. Granger Forson: Love that example. Thank you so much for sharing. So let's move on to Act 2 now, the journey of your business. the last five years, ⁓ business has highs and lows. What have you learned about your business? Helen The Sales Lady: ⁓ God, yeah. What have I learnt? long have we got? I think the one or things that strike me is how much time waste waiting for things, know, waiting for conditions change instead of creating the conditions, ⁓ waiting for... ⁓ I had the same thoughts. I was like, ⁓ I'll have to like get completely new audience. my audience is pharmaceuticals and engineering and manufacturing. And ⁓ actually want to target service based people. It's going to take ages. And actually my very first gig came from a referral from someone that I knew who was in the engineering sector. So it wasn't true, but I was definitely telling myself, you can't get XYZ money or success or whatever it is, like you can't create this until this changes. I think when you really see that you have everything you need around you, you don't need a bigger audience, go and get the people in your audience to go and bring the people to you. You know, like you don't have to wait, but when we're like waiting, I feel like we've shifted over into the passenger seat or the back seat we're waiting for this unspecified change ⁓ someone to come and do something or something miraculously out there to change for us. It's never, it doesn't happen because you could get the audience, then you have to learn how to activate them or then you have to learn how to sell your services and then you have to learn how to deliver on them. ⁓ there's still going to be things for you to, you're never going to get away from the thing that you're, you're just kicking it down the line. ⁓ I think the waiting, how much time do we wait for things to be different instead of creating those conditions and using our brain, that was like the biggest thing ever, you know, for me. Once I saw that, like time collapsed, I got the results way faster, because I didn't wait for anything to change. I was like, no, I'm the thing that has to change. have to ⁓ what I'm thinking or change if this feels awkward or weird. Why? Let's examine it. Let's have a look at what's going on. And the thought, we changed the thought and that allows the... behaviour to change. Don't need anything new for that. that's probably the biggest Granger Forson: ⁓ something discovered yourself through your journey. Is that recent? You talked about it for five years. ⁓ When the moment of ⁓ realisation changed the trajectory of your business? Helen The Sales Lady: Yeah, so I would say I've had life coaching before. That's actually what brought the idea of running my own business out. ⁓ actually thought I was a little depressed or like something was going on or, know, like, and actually what was happening was I was trying to break out of the container of employment and just didn't know what to do that. ⁓ So that that. And when I saw how fast that happened, because I gave myself two years and I actually did it in about three months. ⁓ So, you know, that's the power of good coaching people who are ready to receive that and ready to change. ⁓ I'd already had that experience of coaching and I was like, I wonder if I need someone to help me with the business then. And I didn't really know how extensive business coaching was at that point, because I was completely new to business. obviously there's a business coach for everything with all the different niches and everything that's, can, there's so much variety out there. And I actually stumbled upon a coach who has a sales and marketing kind of flavor to her and did the mindset work. And I was like, my God, I feel like all my dreams have come true. This is amazing. And I remember following her for like two weeks. I absorbed everything. I like binged on all her stuff that she had available. She showed up every single day. She dropped the value. I absorbed it. And I was just like, how do I work with you? And I remember borrowing the money from my mom and dad because I didn't have the the collateral at that point to invest, but I knew it would, I'd had that previous experience of life coaching, ⁓ knew it would collapse time and it did. And I made my first six figures within the first year. It was actually, messed around probably for six months. So was actually in the back six months of year one, we'd made six figures. So the of it. So because I'd had that experience, I was like, let's get that in the business. ⁓ It's not just for life coaches, it's for business out there as well. I think seeing that and being coached myself, a lot of people are quite surprised. They're like, why do you have a business coach? Why do you have a sales coach? And I'm like, cause I need that. I'm trying to upskill all the time so I can pass it down to you guys. I think sometimes we have that thought, like I've got to know everything I can't be seen to, depends what you think reaching out for help is. If it's a weakness or a strength, I always see it as a strength. Where's my gaps and how do I close them? See the by the expertise or I make my brain more valuable. Like which one is it that I'm doing? You can't like buy the expertise out of this. If you've got a sales and marketing problem, you could hire like someone to do your marketing for you, but they're going to ask you the questions that you're not answering yourself. So you can't circumnavigate it. You've got to do the internal work first. So it was my own experience really from life coach. I just saw. Granger Forson: Mmm. Yeah. Fantastic. Yes, totally agree. think as business owner, can outsource activities, absolutely, but you can't outsource the responsibility of it. And one of the biggest things you have to understand as a business owner ⁓ is how do marketing and how to do selling. ⁓ And are things that you can learn ⁓ either coaching online, whatever it is, or just real thousand hour practices ⁓ of that. But you have to understand that. ⁓ Helen The Sales Lady: Yes. Granger Forson: then the activity of it, yes you can outsource the doing of it, but you own that responsibility and to understand that. what I think is lovely in your answer is that realisation you did and you went then to find that learning through other coaches which you've then brought to your business, taking your business forwards as well as yourself forwards. Fantastic. we believe ⁓ stronger business together that one the key things in the business is to simplify everything that you do, ⁓ make business life simpler. ⁓ Helen The Sales Lady: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Love it. Yes. Granger Forson: Maybe give us something that you've done, maybe something you've stopped doing that's made things simpler for yourself. Helen The Sales Lady: So that's my philosophy is it gets to be simple. I'd say that's what I coach and train out a lot. know, people will come and be like, yeah, it needs to be a 10 step, like marketing funnel, blah, blah, blah. Like, why don't you just show up and be really helpful and then tell people how they get more help. And I think that's the thing I did with my marketing. I dread to think, Granger, how many hours, days, weeks, months I have spent. trying to crack the marketing silver bullet. You know, like the code. And I'm like, what if it was simple? Apply your same logic, Helen, it gets to be simple. What's the most simple thing you can do? I want you show up every day. Decide how you want people to experience you. Like whether they see a LinkedIn post or an email or you in person, what do you want them to leave with? And I always want people to feel like... that feels better, ⁓ that's so much easier to think of it that way and then to have something to go in action. So that's what I did, I just showed up every day and I was like what if it gets to be really simple, if I just, it might take me an hour now to do, to like put together a LinkedIn post. in this moment today, five years later, it probably takes me about 10 minutes. There are posts where I do like just think about it a bit more but that habit of showing up and giving. ⁓ without asking for anything and just showing people how they get that next step and that next most valuable thing. It just gets to be so simple. But we're like, no, we need a 10 step funnel and I need to like buy software. And if you're not making consistent money to 5, 10, 15 K, like that's not for you. That's to solve a different problem when you know how to do it. You have to kind of do it manually first before you can like automate it or scale it. because otherwise you automate or scale the bottlenecks and the problems, bring them to you. ⁓ you really don't have anybody coming, you didn't have anyone coming to you before and now you really don't have anyone coming to you and you've just 10x So I think that it gets to be simple ⁓ with marketing was my first realization. I remember about a year in going, why am doing it this way? ⁓ What if it was just so much easier and simpler and I engaged with it more, I connected with it more, I thought for my client more, I put myself in their brain, I just spent more time there and I'm like, it was a little hard at first to do it, because again, your brain just naturally goes to what you want to say and what you're thinking. Your client doesn't care what you're thinking, they care what they're thinking and they care that you know what they're thinking. So as soon as I flipped that, I was like, my God, this is so much fun. And so when people say to me, why don't you outsource your marketing? I'm like, that's the last thing I'm letting go of. that's, I'm probably never letting that go because it's so easy for me to do it. But ⁓ to be simple in marketing would be the thing that I'd love to give to your audience. ⁓ you're trying to do a 10 step funnel, blah, blah, blah, like ⁓ it. Just like show up, be useful before people pay you and then show people how they can pay you to get. when people say to me, why don't you outsource your marketing? I'm like, that's the last thing I'm letting go of. I'm probably never letting that go because it's so easy for me to do it. But ⁓ it to be in marketing would be the thing that I'd love to give to your audience. If you're trying to a 10 step funnel, blah, blah, blah, like ⁓ stop it. Just like up, be useful before people pay you and then show people how they can pay you to get. Granger Forson: But... Yes. Yes, no. Helen The Sales Lady: even more value. Like that's it broken down in a nutshell. even more value. Like that's it broken down in a nutshell. Granger Forson: Fantastic. I love that. one of the social media marketeers that I follow, Gary Vaynerchuk, he still writes 10 posts a day. Even though he's running a massive business with, I don't know what it is now, 3,000 people or something, I can't remember what it is. He's just huge all around the world, et cetera, et He's still writing, because he said... Helen The Sales Lady: Yeah. Granger Forson: I have to, it's always changing. It's always updating and I've got to keep experimenting to keep my team experimenting, because they copy what I do. yeah, ⁓ fantastic. love that. Thank you so much. Yeah, simplification by showing will then make you simplify that way of doing it. Fantastic. Right. Let's move on to act three now, the hurdle. So what have we picked as our hurdle question for today? ⁓ Helen The Sales Lady: Yeah. I knew it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, so I think the question that I get asked is various different, it might sound slightly different, but the ultimate crux of it is, how do I sell without looking salesy? Like what's too much salesiness? ⁓ want to look salesy and pushy. How do I sell without feeling that or looking like that is kind of the question. Granger Forson: Yeah, brilliant, yes. And they're worried that they're losing opportunities of sales because of that that's taking place. Brilliant. So let's... Helen The Sales Lady: Yeah, I don't want to look too salesy and then I'll lose the sale basically. Granger Forson: Keep in mind somebody, client, person that we'll talk about because it's easier to focus on a situation rather than a generalization. ⁓ with this person you've got in mind, ⁓ their current condition? What's going on today in their sales process that's maybe making feel like they're too salesy? ⁓ Helen The Sales Lady: Yeah, there's a couple of people in my group program, the sales refresh that I've actually brought this to me today. So I'll use them. I'll keep them in front of mind. First of all, it's really common. It's really normal to feel this way because no one's ever taught you any different. You just absorb your selling experience by how you've been sold to and what you've seen and what we've seen in TV and movies and things that, you know, we just think. I don't want to give people a bad experience because then they'll think something badly of me and then they won't buy. You know, so that's the question that got asked in the group was what's the right amount of posts versus value posts to And that tells me straight away, it ⁓ shows that you don't value your sales call. You don't see that as being the highest value. that you could offer anybody right now that's struggling with the problem that you solve for. So this person was, what was, is, they're still alive, they are, a ⁓ in training. So they train out leadership and development. And lot of people in my group, like said, they've got a specialism and they either train it or they coach it. So they were... ⁓ You know, want to do more marketing, but I want to do the right amount of marketing to not repel people. As if I'm too salesy, ⁓ won't come in and ⁓ a call or, you know, I'll repel people basically. Granger Forson: So that's our starting point. We know we are. Where would we want to get somebody to ⁓ with ⁓ the work that do with them? What would ⁓ excellent ⁓ like when we got them there? ⁓ Helen The Sales Lady: Yeah, so I think the best way to describe this is you value sales so much that you want to spend more time with it. You're not trying to get away the least of times that we need to show up and sell ⁓ or people to book a call. You don't questions like, say you're doing, lot of my clients will do webinars and master classes. And they're like, ⁓ God, I've got to settle at the end and like, ⁓ it's cringe and no one wants it. And I see everyone dropping off and like, they will change their vantage point to, this is the point that some people on this call will be waiting for. This will be the point where this is the most highest value that I could give to anyone, which is like showing them the pathway of how they get change. So we actually have a formula in the sales refresh that I teach people when they want to do any kind of teaching or any kind of talk or anything like that. We can just shrivel up like a little prune at the end and be like, well, if you want anything, I'll be in the corner because I don't want to look too salesy. Or we can really give people, some of you might want to take the next step with me. This is what it looks like and this is what happens when you do and here's how we get you the change and this is what. the formula looks like and when you do that you get this result. Some people are just like that they're hanging on the end because that's what they want to hear and you think, ⁓ God, that's going to repel them. So we don't do it or we dull it down. we might be selling, for example, at the moment for like 30 seconds or a minute. You might end up spending 15 minutes talking about how they get access to change and what that pathway would look like because you value it. So you want to spend more time with it. Granger Forson: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. ⁓ know where we want to get them to. So what's typically going on then ⁓ their heads, in their process? What's the sort of, ⁓ call the root cause ⁓ holding them back? ⁓ Helen The Sales Lady: That's the ultimate. Yeah, they, the root cause tends to be they haven't caught, cause they're in the, cause they're in the solution mode. They have the solution. They've forgotten what it's like to have the problem. So they see the act of selling. They don't realize it's a valuable exchange of value. They think they're going to take more than what they're going to give, which is likely the experience that we've had. It could be years ago, could be as a small child. could be something that was done to us when we were buying, but something lodged in our brain that this doesn't feel good as an experience as a buyer or a consumer. I have like got the bum end of the deal here. This feels like this was more for the other person than it was for me. Maybe you didn't actually buy, maybe it was just the experience, maybe you bought, it doesn't matter, but the experience of choosing, deciding and having that person help you fell off. the balance fell off. So you're hypersensitive to not doing that to someone else. happens with that is they don't get what they came for. They don't hear the thing that's most valuable to them. You offer the next step. ⁓ You we dull it down. We are like, ⁓ well, no obligation. And like, you know, I'll give the value. ⁓ but I'm not gonna tell them how they get the ultimate value, because you've just forgotten. You just don't realize how valuable time with you is solving this problem. Even if they say, thanks, for explaining how you do it in the pathway. I want to do it a different way. I don't wanna do it. You still solve really well. That's still a really valuable use of time. So ⁓ got to see that. One the questions that I give my clients and we keep coming back to, ⁓ and keep reminding yourself is why is it, say your sales call is an hour, why is an hour with you the most valuable thing for that person if they didn't go and buy? What would they still gain from it? ⁓ same for you as the seller, what would you gain from it so you don't see it as a complete waste of time? When you can see that, Granger Forson: Mm-hmm. Helen The Sales Lady: you realize how valuable that moment, that micro moment where they book the call and that moment where they buy is the two most highest value ⁓ to speak, that you can give anyone because it's when they make a decision and once they decide to buy, they get the access to the help. Remember they've got the problem. So like they're really motivated to make it go away. So. Granger Forson: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Helen The Sales Lady: That's the moment where they decide, ⁓ I've decided I want to make it go away and I'm going to pay you because I want to start making that go away. we think, ⁓ my God, we're taking more than what we're given here, so let's do it down. And going to be some people that don't want it. You can offer it generously and people are like, ⁓ I don't a call with you right now. Thanks so much, but it's not for me. You're like, ⁓ Granger Forson: Yeah. Yeah. Yes. And not everybody that turns up is there to buy. I'd be there to look for a solution to their problem right now. Maybe they don't appreciate their problem. Maybe they're just not interested in this moment. Maybe there are other things going on in their lives and they're not ready for that. So there is always a proportion of people, but at least they've made a decision. At least they've made a decision today, I'm not going to buy. That's fantastic. Yeah. But it's those other people that you've... Helen The Sales Lady: Yeah Yeah. Granger Forson: because you've not done what you're talking about, they're now sitting on the fence. They can't make a decision. They can't decide. They'll say, ⁓ let me go and talk to my partner. Or they'll say, come back to you next week. Actually, they are the people that maybe you have now failed ⁓ your approach to make a decision. So yeah, I love what you're saying there. Brilliant. Helen The Sales Lady: Yeah. Granger Forson: So what would we do to give some ideas of how we would solve this in our experience, our knowledge, our capability to actually get people to that point of making a decision through your sales presentation? ⁓ Helen The Sales Lady: Yeah, so with that, I think the first thing we have to do is we have to notice that something in you that makes you not want to offer this. Whether to take the next step to book a call or whether you're asking someone in a conversation to buy ⁓ or make a decision, you're having about selling that make you not want to sell. So the first thing I would suggest you do is get that down on paper. Just write something at the top anything around like you know what my thoughts and feelings about selling and let it go wild like let your brain wild, you know, let it all come out. What are your thoughts on selling being salesy being too much then what happens? You know, let's get it all out so that we can see it and then what we want to do is we want to choose ⁓ better thoughts You see stuff ⁓ They'll be different for everyone, but you will see things that you can just see it and even just reading it on like written down. It will make you feel something in here that's probably unhelpful. You might feel shame, embarrassment, disappointment, frustration. None of that's going to help you. Your brain is going to want to protect you from feeling that. It thinks that if you're too salesy, something bad is going to happen, you know? And so what we do is we just don't. sell at all, which is equally on both sides not great because then people don't get access. a sales call with you and you making an offer is the only way that people really can buy. So you know my thing is like make offers but you're not going to make offers if having ⁓ really quality thoughts about selling. So we've got to get it out on paper first and just see it and then we choose some better thinking. Granger Forson: Yeah. Helen The Sales Lady: some thinking that supports us, some thinking that really changes how you feel in here. When I think about sales as like being service, it does change something in me. But when I think, ⁓ my God, selling is where I give the most value, is where people get access to that, that really like in here is like, that does something. It makes me more giddy, excited, hopeful. So we've just got to get some thinking for you that what's the alternative? Because you can choose to think selling is bad and sales it and push in and pushing things on people that they don't want. Or we could say, this is the opportunity where they get to decide and I'm going to let them decide. know which one feels even just saying it, ⁓ one feels like. ⁓ we've got to choose some different thinking so we can make more offers. Yeah. that's the first. Granger Forson: Yes absolutely yeah ⁓ ⁓ That's beautiful and that's the real sort of understanding that actually it's not salesy is you're helping somebody to make a decision to make a significant change by working with you and you then add in that value to them. And if you don't make that offer, then how will they ever get that opportunity to do that? So changing that mindset is what you've been describing and finding that way of doing that. Yeah, that's fantastic. So we've got that little first experiment to get people thinking and going. What should they do next week then? Helen The Sales Lady: Yeah, so I would go out and I would just make offers to people to have conversations. I would start with the people who are in your warmest onion, so to speak, the closest layer, who've been clients before, people who you worked with, people who and like you and already trust you a little bit. And I would make sure that they know exactly what it is that you do and see how you can be helpful to each other. Having half an hour together, I can tell you a bit about my business, what I'm looking for, why, and we can do the same with you and then we can find ways that we can be helpful together. Your next sales, your next clients will come from the people that are already around you. We just seem to want to go out and get, I don't know, a thousand new people, like flyer them with one cold message and then we get very disappointed that no one wants our stuff. I'm like, they don't even know who you are. Like we're starting with the wrong ballpark. So I would start there. And then the second thing at the same time is have a look at your marketing because what we want to do is we want to get their attention and we get their attention by building trust. So how can you build no like trust in your marketing? Granger Forson: Yes. Yeah. Helen The Sales Lady: What makes you known is something that's relatable that resonates. What makes people like you? Well, you know, maybe you help solve their problems a little bit along the way. So maybe you solve a little micro problem for them. And then again, it builds that trust and credibility and that certainty that, hang on, this person seems like someone that could help. That's what happened with when I watched my business coach and that's what's happened when people have engaged with me. Some of them have just binged on it and gone, oh my God, this is the thing and what else has she got and what else and what else? If I was like, I don't want to be too salesy, I wouldn't have done the what else. They'd just have one thing and then there'd be a gap and then they'd be like, well, that's great, but what else? Oh, she's not posting anything. I haven't got anything else to consume. So we need to give them something that's valuable, that has helpful. But the second thing we need to do is we need to build the desire to activate them. And that's what. that's what activates people is we've got to float the desire than the pain that they're in. So like, how do people get help? What is your solution? are the steps that people take? What does that work look like? Why does that work? We've kind of got to build that problem, know, ⁓ the solution, desire, ⁓ how do get there? Cause if you just talk about your results only, ⁓ Granger Forson: Yeah. Yeah. Helen The Sales Lady: then, and some of you aren't doing that even as a bare minimum, you should be doing. So like, you know, if they just see the result on its own, they don't know how to get there. So we're missing out a huge chunk. And then of course we've got to show them how they get there, which is to have a conversation with you. So we've got to offer that. So let's go and have a look at our marketing. Are we building trust? If someone was to land on your LinkedIn, for example. Granger Forson: Yes. Helen The Sales Lady: Can they get help? Does the questions they've got resonate somewhere in there? Or are they gonna bounce on and off? And then if they hang around a bit more, what are we giving them? Could we solve some problems? Can we give them something that's valuable? And then do we share with them how they get more value? And that's what they'd go. So the conversations and then just a mini audit on your socials, whatever platform that is. Granger Forson: Yeah, fantastic. Helen The Sales Lady: That's what I'm going to. Granger Forson: Beautiful. ⁓ I think we just had a fantastic little master class there just from this one little question we started off with. That's absolutely fantastic. And what I like about that within the stronger business together, one of our other principles is growth through challenge. You know, it isn't easy, actually the answers are out there. You know, go find them. Challenge yourself to find those answers. Challenge yourself to start implementing and learning and make it apply to you. ⁓ can't copy other people, but you can learn from them and then start applying. that that's the real challenge that so many business owners are meet. Unfortunately don't want to go through they don't want to go through that hard work of learning they don't want to go hard work of applying and they don't want to go through all that fail trial fail trial which actually challenges really about. So thank you Helen that was absolutely awesome. So let's do our wrap up and close. did you hear yourself say today that maybe surprised you? Helen The Sales Lady: Yeah. I think going back, I haven't thought about what business was like at the start. And I look now and there's a massive contrast for the better. But that whole thing that you said about like the failure cycle, I think I just was really ⁓ for that. ⁓ make sense? I I got on board with it fast. And I think that's the thing. If anyone's listening to this thinking. is the thing that I should do. Just be prepared to fail really fast because clean your relationship with failure because it's going to happen. ⁓ not It will fail. You'll fail every day, every week. So if you can't tolerate it, this is going to be really hard for you. So I think I've just been reminded of how fast I went through that. I kind of surprised myself with that. Granger Forson: Yeah. Yeah. Fantastic. finally, how can people get hold of you if they want to follow more of your journey? ⁓ Helen The Sales Lady: Yes, so ⁓ LinkedIn is probably the best place. I show up there every single day. There's plenty of things to get involved in. If you go into my profile, Helen T. Bay, the sales lady, there's webinars, there's an email list you can join. There's value that I post every single day and you can book a consultation call there as well. That's how you can get that. If you're a bit allergic to LinkedIn, because I know not everyone's on it, you can get the same stuff from my, the same access through my website. which is helentibay.podia.com. ⁓ Granger Forson: Brilliant. Well, Hallam, thank you so much for being open and honest today. I know our listeners will get a huge lot from this conversation. It's been fantastic. Thank you. Helen The Sales Lady: Thank you Granger for inviting me and having me and thank you for everyone who's listening. Thank you.