Latest / True Crime with Gavin Fish / Retired FBI Agent Breaks Down the Mind of Nancy Guthrie’s Abductor | Who Kidnapped Nancy?

Transcript

Retired FBI Agent Breaks Down the Mind of Nancy Guthrie’s Abductor | Who Kidnapped Nancy? · True Crime with Gavin Fish

0:01
Well over 4 weeks ago, 84 year old Tucson grandmother and
0:08
mother of Today Show Co host Savannah Guthrie went missing.
0:15
The likelihood that Nancy Guthrie is still with us is very
0:21
low, but we've got to remain hopeful that she is.
0:26
And today I've had a conversation with Jen
0:30
Coffendaffer, who is a friend of mine and a retired FBI agent and
0:37
podcaster. She's awesome, bad to the bone.
0:41
And we talked about this case we're going to, I'm going to
0:44
share that with you along with a couple of other things.
0:49
Stick with me. This video contains mature
1:03
themes and discussions intended only for adult audiences.
1:07
Viewer discretion is advised. Hello there my friend.
1:12
Welcome back to another true crime conversation with me,
1:15
Gavin Fish. If you're into true crime and
1:18
you like to cut past the sensationalism, the fluff, you
1:22
found the right place. And boy, am I glad you did.
1:26
I'm so glad that you are joining me wherever you're joining me
1:30
from. Please tell me in the comments
1:32
where you are. And you know, bonus points if
1:36
you tell me in a creative way that exercises our little brain.
1:40
I just love that. I want to thank who is it?
1:44
It is. Let me see if I can get this
1:47
working here. There we go.
1:50
Beth Guybe 8844 for getting us started with a super chat today.
1:55
Thank you very much Beth. I deeply, deeply appreciate the
2:00
support that you guys give me it.
2:02
You guys are awesome. Okey Dokey, we are talking about
2:08
the case of Nancy Guthrie. Nancy Guthrie as I said, 84 year
2:12
old grandma Savannah Guthrie's mom last seen on January 31st.
2:18
She did not show up for church on February 1st.
2:21
Family came to check in on her, found a crime scene called 911.
2:26
They saw that it was a crime scene.
2:28
And then this whole kind of snafu began with so many, so
2:33
many things have happened, and it's very difficult to know, you
2:40
know? It's very difficult.
2:43
To know, I personally don't think that the after the
2:48
conversation that I had with Jen, I'm, I'm coming around to
2:54
the side that I think that the people that were ransoming,
2:58
sending in ransom notes have nothing to do with this case.
3:04
But I'm, oh, now, you know, maybe I'm putting the cart
3:08
before the horse here because I want to share with you the
3:13
conversation that I had with Jen earlier today.
3:16
And we're going to get your comments along the way.
3:17
So get your thumbs ready on those phones to comment your
3:23
thoughts with what, with what Jen is saying in the
3:28
conversation that I had with her earlier.
3:30
I really, really, really want to hear your thoughts on this.
3:34
But I'm coming around to the idea that this was not a botched
3:37
burglary, that this was not a ransom.
3:42
This probably, I think had something to do with either
3:47
Nancy or her children. Like this was this was a get
3:54
even kind of a thing. Like that's what it kind of
3:58
feels like to me at this point. Let's see who is checking in.
4:03
We got Salisbury, Tennessee in the house.
4:06
Thank you very much. We've got Seattle or Saint Louis
4:10
near Heavenly Mountain watching from the Garden State.
4:14
By the way, Zach Braff's Garden State is one of the funniest
4:18
movies I've ever watched. Is so good.
4:20
The Sunshine State is in the house.
4:22
Circle City is here. Statesville, NC Thank you for
4:26
being here. The Driftwood lover is not far
4:30
from the Saint Valentine's Day Massacre.
4:35
Cornfield Heaven. Valpariso Indiana's here.
4:39
The Keystone State, my adopted home state, Jefferson, TX.
4:44
Not terribly creative, but also, but an awesome place
4:47
nonetheless. Thank you very much.
4:49
Daytona Beach is here. Sweden.
4:52
Middle of the night in the house.
4:54
Thank you very much. Kentucky is here.
4:57
Yeah. Jennifer Coffendaffer.
4:59
I you know what? I need to go back to the
5:01
description and link her in there.
5:02
I can't believe I forgot to do that before we started.
5:05
Wisconsin is in the house, Marie.
5:08
Thank you, Marie. It's good to see you.
5:10
I live in a city where Sloss Furnace National Historic
5:12
Landmark. Wow, very cool.
5:16
Jersey coast is here. Did they do a blood analysis on
5:21
the sidewalk? Blood?
5:22
Couldn't they identify if it was her nose, mouth, or somewhere
5:24
else? I don't think that they can
5:26
identify where the blood originated in the body.
5:30
I, I, maybe I'm wrong on that, but I, I think they did do an
5:38
analysis and found that that was her blood.
5:42
Tennessee is in the house. Erie in the Keystone State is in
5:45
the house. Thank you guys.
5:46
Thank you, all of you and I deeply appreciate your, your
5:50
super chats there as well. Thanks, guys.
5:53
We got a goal to get ten of those by the end of the old
5:56
show, which I which I hope happens because boy was February
6:00
hard month 01 more came in goodness Let's see from the Roz
6:09
Rodriguez looking great Mr. Fish glad to be back after eye
6:12
surgery on on oh and treatment on the other eye.
6:18
I can see glad. I'm glad for you Roz.
6:22
Love the chat too from South Texas.
6:24
You are here. Thank you Mooney.
6:25
Thank you very much for that super chat as well.
6:29
You guys are awesome. Awesome.
6:30
Awesome. OK, without further ado, Jen
6:33
Koffendaffer, by the way, is a retired FBI special agent.
6:39
She she's also a podcaster. I'm going to get the links in
6:44
the description before while this is going, OK?
6:49
But I want you guys to be prepared with what it is that
6:53
you know, you think she has to say, let's bring this up over
6:57
here, Gavin, push the right button.
7:00
There we go. Please remember to put GF in
7:04
your comments while if you want me to read the comment here on
7:11
my side. Without further ado, let's go
7:13
ahead and get it on. Get it started.
7:16
Like to welcome Jennifer Coffin Daffer back to the program for
7:19
the second time. It's been a while.
7:20
Jen, welcome back. Thanks for coming.
7:24
It has. It's been a while.
7:25
We did such a fun show. When I say fun, it was involved
7:30
all about Ellen Greenberg. I don't know if you remember
7:32
that. That was back in the day.
7:34
Oh my goodness, yeah. That that show was great, I
7:38
think because just trying to bring light to her situation and
7:44
you did such a great job of really opening up that door and
7:49
many of us ran right through it and, you know, as soon as we
7:53
bought the case. Well, I'm, I'm glad that so many
7:55
people did. I can't claim to be the OG on
7:58
that one. That belongs to Stephanie Farr
8:00
at the Philadelphia Inquirer. She was the one that really got
8:02
it going. And when I started research, I
8:04
really leaned heavily on her. So I'm glad that so many people
8:08
kind of picked up that torch and ran with it.
8:10
I just I just talked with with Sandy yesterday.
8:14
She had just had her 70th birthday and was celebrating.
8:17
It's anyway special, special family.
8:20
Hey, so the nation is captivated right now.
8:23
Buy this case out of Tucson. The missing grandmother, 84 year
8:28
old Nancy Guthrie. She happens to be the mother of
8:31
Savannah Guthrie who is the Co host of NB CS Today show.
8:35
Which I'm sure. Is is the reason that so so many
8:39
of us started watching this in the 1st place?
8:41
But once we got to know the case, this one's a doozy, is it
8:45
not? It really is.
8:47
I mean, I think the reason it's captivating is a everyone has a
8:52
grandma, everyone has somebody they know that is elderly.
8:56
And to think that you could get snatched out of your bed like
8:59
this is just, I think for all of us.
9:02
But then you add to it this mystery, this is really becoming
9:07
such a whodunit as different people were exonerated or, you
9:12
know, cleared, as law enforcement put it.
9:15
And now we we really have a whodunit here.
9:19
So I want to talk to you a little bit about maybe some of
9:22
the techniques that the FBI, as a retired FBI agent, you would
9:27
have insight on to this. I want to, I want to talk a
9:29
little bit about what the FBI might be doing here.
9:32
And I wonder if we could start with talking about the
9:35
relationship between federal investigators and state and
9:38
local investigators, how that typically works.
9:41
I think that the media, some of us in the media, have kind of
9:46
tried to play a little bit of, you know, one against the other.
9:51
I'm curious what your thoughts are on how it appears that these
9:55
two agencies, the Tucson County, the Pima County Sheriff's and
10:00
and the FBI are working together.
10:03
Well, it's been a little disappointing, quite frankly, to
10:05
see social media and mainstream media in some instances just lop
10:10
on this notion that they don't get along, that they are holding
10:16
evidence from each other. I mean, there's really zero
10:19
evidence of that. Yes, there's some source
10:21
reporting. There's, you know, purportedly,
10:26
you know, that there's issues, but this is what I know.
10:29
What I know is that anytime you have a local jurisdiction who
10:33
has primary venue for a case, which initially the Pima County
10:36
Sheriff's Office did, and then you have the assistance of the
10:40
FBI gets involved because they have so many resources, so many
10:44
more bodies. Of course, there can become a
10:47
situation where at some point does the FBI have primary
10:52
jurisdiction. And in this case, because it's a
10:56
kidnapping and under sub B of the kidnapping statute, it says
11:01
that when a kidnapped victim has not been returned within 24
11:06
hours of their kidnapping, it is actually presumed under law that
11:12
they have been taken across state lines or international
11:15
lines. I would say is would be included
11:18
in this case. So therefore, now you have the
11:21
FBI saying we've got 100 agents on this.
11:24
We have the full force of our analysts on this deal.
11:29
We really need to be running the show.
11:32
And I I think that also the taxing nature of having all
11:37
these Pima County Sheriff's Office officers running down
11:40
leads and not doing their normal duties.
11:43
Just think of the robberies, the burglaries, the Duis, domestic
11:49
violence cases that normally you would have a full staff to do
11:52
that are doing this. And I think it was.
11:55
It did become a matter of resources.
11:58
And it makes a lot of sense that the Bureau, I believe, is
12:01
overseeing this now in a task force setting with, of course,
12:04
Pima County heavily involved. Now we keep seeing.
12:07
Sheriff. Chris Nanos on, you know,
12:10
different interviews, different networks, different legacy media
12:14
outlets. Do you think that's helpful to
12:18
the case? What?
12:19
Why do you think he's doing that?
12:22
Well, look, a sheriff is an elected official.
12:25
And at the end of the day, sheriff's want to get their face
12:29
out there. They want their constituency to
12:31
know they're on top of the case, they're involved, they're they
12:34
have transparency, right? It's different than the Bureau.
12:38
The Bureau really answers to no one.
12:40
And the Bureau does not care what the public thinks.
12:44
At the end of the day, Cash Patel every once in a while gets
12:47
up and raises the flag about something.
12:49
On this one. He said, listen, it was our
12:51
agents. I'm not even sure he mentioned
12:53
Google that found out, you know, found the video and the
12:58
photographic evidence from that Nest camera.
13:01
I think they worked in conjunction with Google to make
13:03
that happen. But nevertheless, you will see
13:06
these spurts of, you know, the director appearing, but you will
13:10
not see case agents appearing talking about their case.
13:15
Look at Gabby Petito. You never saw press conferences
13:19
or anything like that, but you did hear local authorities talk.
13:23
Same with the Idaho 4. Every week the local authorities
13:27
talked, if not more than that. They issued cleared lists,
13:31
remember, and they would add to them each week so everybody knew
13:34
who was cleared. They finally got, I believe,
13:37
$1,000,000 grant to hire a public information firm because
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they were mucking up the case so much.
13:44
Just because they might be a good sheriff or a good chief,
13:48
but that doesn't mean they're a good communicator.
13:51
I'm going to pause it right here and just kind of break in for a
13:54
second. I think Jennifer's commentary on
13:57
this is spot on. And obviously I'm going to say
13:59
that because I agree with it, because we've talked about that
14:02
here on the channel. Sheriff Nanos is a politician.
14:05
He's an elected an elected official and it is in his best
14:09
interest. To be front and Center for his
14:13
constituents so that they. So that they see him as doing
14:18
something in the case. But is that the right thing to
14:23
do? I think that there's an argument
14:25
that could be made that it's a good thing to do.
14:28
And we talked about this here in a second with Jen.
14:30
There's also an argument to be made that it is a bad idea.
14:35
But but yeah, she's she's absolutely spot on on this.
14:39
Let's continue. And they needed a professional
14:41
in there. And once they did that, things
14:43
really got cleaned up there. And in this case, I think what
14:47
we see now that are going to frustrate people even more is a
14:50
full shift to the FBI. That means you're not going to
14:52
hear anything, nothing. It's going to be crickets other
14:56
than what Chief Nanos decides to come forward and say, which two
14:59
days ago he was on and he dropped a lot of interesting
15:03
Nuggets. But to your point, is it
15:05
helpful? Is it not helpful?
15:07
Look, it depends on what vantage.
15:10
If you're coming from his vantage, it's going to be
15:12
helpful because he's trying to be somewhat transparent.
15:16
And I think to people like you and I, it's good to have some
15:20
idea of where things are. The problem is, I think the
15:24
trust in Nanos has really dissipated.
15:27
Yeah, I I also think that there is some value in having the case
15:32
stay in the public's attention, be part of the zeitgeist that
15:36
we're living through. I think that more eyeballs
15:39
looking for Nancy. She is in somebody's
15:42
neighborhood or in somebody's area and she and the people that
15:45
have have taken her have transited through places that
15:49
are, you know, that are populated and people have
15:52
security cameras and stuff like that.
15:54
So I do think that there's probably a benefit to the case.
15:57
Actually, the Gabby potato case is an is a terrific example of
16:00
this. I think that the Schmidts and
16:02
the potatoes with the help of, I mean, I don't, I don't know what
16:07
professional help they had, but they, I think they had it just
16:10
just just in kind of tearing apart as a Monday morning
16:15
quarterback just how well they did and keeping the case alive,
16:19
right. So, and the fact that we've got
16:23
Savannah Guthrie on this, a seasoned journalist, seasoned
16:26
commentator and member of the media.
16:28
She's she's doing a terrific job.
16:29
I think I, I don't want to call him stunts and because that
16:34
minimizes what it is. But they are they're planned
16:38
right When she and her brother and sister went out in front of
16:41
the house to the little makeshift memorial, You know,
16:46
the cynic and me would call that a stunt.
16:47
But that keeps the cameras rolling.
16:49
It keeps the eyes of of the world on it keeps makes it more
16:54
likely, I think that that somebody will see something and
16:58
say something eventually. What do you think?
17:01
Well, I will say this because I believe they are getting ready
17:06
to go back and and take possession of the house from
17:09
everything we've seen, we've seen a locksmith out there,
17:12
we've seen the new security system put in, we've seen
17:18
additional cameras. We've seen a lot of you know,
17:22
and they've actually come forth and said they're trying to get
17:25
it back in the hands of the family, right, which makes all
17:28
the sense in the world. But to your .100%, the more
17:36
people that see action and see Savannah and and see those
17:41
poignant moments are going to be more interested because as
17:46
things get, and I'll call it this, that that case is red hot.
17:50
There's nothing cold about it. But as it gets sort of cold in
17:54
the media, meaning the media is losing interest because they
17:58
don't have any Nuggets to report, it's important to keep
18:02
Savannah's face, Annie, Tommaso, you know, some Cameron, some
18:08
interest in this case in the public view, even if it's just
18:11
sentimental and not factual or helping solve the case.
18:16
Yeah, OK. Now the, the main reason I
18:19
wanted to have you on is to is to just talk to you about maybe
18:23
trying to get inside the mind of abductors on this.
18:26
This just seems like a strange case to me where it, it looks
18:30
like there's a what, 4547 minute time frame where I guess we
18:37
would call them perpetrators went to Nancy's house.
18:40
They spent that time with her. We've seen some evidence in
18:43
terms of blood spatter or blood droplets on the on the front
18:50
porch, even the weirdness of where the the holster was
18:58
positioned on like it was an it was an outside appendix carry.
19:01
It was the strangest thing, right?
19:03
I'm trying to get into the mind of of these abductors.
19:08
Was this always kind of a ransom thing or was it or, or was the
19:14
ransom, you know, imitators and people trying to just throw
19:19
investigators off? I mean, what does what is the
19:21
FBI and what do investigators do from the beginning on this when
19:25
we've got just such a strange case?
19:27
It first of all, it's weird to have an 84 year old woman taken
19:30
from her house, right? This is this is just strange all
19:33
the way around. If we could get into the mind of
19:36
of the abductors of the perpetrators here, what are some
19:39
of the things that you would do to do that?
19:42
Well, first of all, you're right, this is a huge outlier.
19:45
In fact, I was able to find another case that actually just
19:49
occurred, also of an 80 year old woman in South Carolina who was
19:52
kidnapped, taken, and then murdered several hours later.
19:55
That abductor spent over an hour in her house, ate pizza, left
20:00
his DNA all over that. But that was a bit different
20:03
because that case was actually that abductor ended up stealing
20:07
a van before going to her house. The van broke down.
20:12
And so this was a crime of opportunity.
20:14
He went into her garage to steal her car and was confronted,
20:18
ended up abducting her after I said he spent over an hour with
20:22
her, took her, drove her across state lines, then back over into
20:26
South Carolina and then put a bullet in the back of her head.
20:29
So, but he was not masked, you know, he wasn't covered.
20:34
He knew that she could identify him.
20:36
So that was in some ways, when I first saw it, I thought, Oh my
20:41
God, this is the case. This is the case that's going to
20:43
help me with motive. But obviously it doesn't help us
20:46
with motive because this was not a burglary.
20:49
It's so interesting because now I think as the days go by, we
20:53
can say what this is not, What this is not is a burglary gone
20:57
bad. You would not burglarize this 84
21:00
year old woman. You burglarize in the day.
21:03
You burglarize when you can get away with it.
21:05
You go in, you go out. You don't have a full backpack.
21:09
There was nothing about this that smelled of a burglary.
21:14
That's out in in my book. Secondarily, you look at the
21:18
ransom situation. Well, that ransom note came in
21:21
three days later. It wasn't given to the family.
21:25
It was given to the media, which is the last place.
21:28
If you are a true gang banger, cartel member, abductor, it's
21:32
the last place you wanted to go. You want your communications to
21:35
be with the family early on, at the precipice of their grief and
21:41
surprise, and you want to make it easy to get that payout.
21:46
They didn't do that. They did this.
21:48
Whoever did the ransom was for sensationalism.
21:51
They went to two local stations 12 hours later when they weren't
21:54
getting the play they wanted in the media.
21:57
That I think is what they desired.
21:58
They went to TMZ knowing of course, TMZ is going to
22:03
completely use this and which they did.
22:06
And so they got what they wanted.
22:08
But that's. So what does that say about the
22:10
the people who are the ransomers?
22:13
I mean, why is it that they want that sensationalism out there?
22:16
Oh, these people, the ransomers that did this, remember there
22:21
were two different ransom demands. 1 was by an individual
22:25
that actually text messaged Tommaso and Annie directly.
22:30
He was caught easily and was arrested, charged with a federal
22:35
offense, and then was out within a few, you know, very short
22:39
period of time I believe on a $20,000 bond, which really means
22:43
2000 at which bondsman. So anyway, I didn't even think
22:47
that they took that seriously enough.
22:49
But this one, gosh, Gavin, you know what it says the these
22:54
people wanted to torture Savannah and her family.
22:59
That's what it tells me when you see something like this.
23:02
This was very emotional and I've seen it in other cases.
23:06
There was a huge case in Fort Worth, TX similar where you
23:11
actually do these types of acts because you have enjoyment in
23:15
dangling, you know the the strings like a puppeteer of the
23:20
victims and making them react to these horrible things you do.
23:25
Wow, that is horrifying. So in your opinion, do you think
23:31
that the people that are asking for the ransom and the people
23:34
who actually took Nancy Guthrie are the same people or what's
23:38
the likelihood there? Well, it's interesting.
23:41
I've thought a lot about this and all I can figure out for
23:45
sure is that they both had the same goal.
23:48
In my opinion, the minute that the Sheriff's Office cleared the
23:53
family, meaning not only the children but their spouses, we
23:58
saw a whole different turn, Which I have to tell you, it
24:00
never really made any sense that the family would be involved.
24:04
Savannah Guthrie doesn't need any money.
24:07
Her, Annie and Tommaso, they look at the amount of money they
24:12
would get. Cameron doesn't need any money.
24:15
Look at the amount of money they would get.
24:16
We know she owns a just over $1,000,000 home that she's had
24:21
50 years. So probably huge equity,
24:23
$1,000,000 equity. Well, anybody who's sold a home
24:26
knows 6% to the Realtors plus taxes plus blah blah blah.
24:32
And then you have to divide whatever's left out of that.
24:35
So let's just say $800,000 is left divided by three.
24:40
Yeah, the the incentive really is really isn't there, is it?
24:44
No. And life insurance, no 84 year
24:46
old woman on a fixed income with grown children who have their
24:50
own careers, their own lives, They're not going to be spending
24:53
money every, you know, month on a life insurance policy to pay
24:58
out the kids. The kids are established.
25:01
So that never made much sense. But it does make a lot of sense
25:07
that whoever did this was close in some way is angry.
25:12
Some sort of retribution, some sort of.
25:15
And it doesn't have to be real. It can be like a Hinckley, you
25:20
know, this imagined love affair with Jodie Foster.
25:24
Look at me. I'm going to kill the president
25:26
to make you love me. It doesn't make any.
25:30
But I am going to do this. I'm going to kidnap.
25:33
And you know what? You're going to notice.
25:35
You're going to know. I'm going to dangle you from my
25:37
strings with your grief. Every day I get to watch you.
25:42
I'm just leaning toward that because I can't find a monetary
25:45
reason. So I mean, that's what this is,
25:49
these are the kinds of thought exercises that investigators are
25:52
going through right now, right? Like I, I, I know that in court,
25:55
for example, you don't need to prove motive in, in these cases,
26:00
right? If they were to find the person
26:02
and prosecute the person, they don't need to prove motive.
26:05
It's not, it's not a, you know, it's not required by the law.
26:09
However, I think in the investigative process, it's
26:12
super valuable to try to figure out, you know, who the person is
26:17
based on why they would do this sort of crime.
26:21
And it's such a strange crime. When you were talking about that
26:23
other one, that was a crime of opportunity.
26:26
He needed a van. She was there, saw his face.
26:29
That's this was somebody coming up to the front door, masked,
26:33
full backpack, armed. And actually, let me ask you
26:37
this, the in my opinion, it doesn't seem like one person can
26:42
get away with with an adult 84 year old woman.
26:46
I mean, if you've ever seen videos online of just a regular
26:50
person trying to carry dead weight, that's actually kind of
26:53
hard, right? So I've always thought that this
26:55
is probably is multiple people. But I'm untrained.
26:58
I'm just a I'm just a chubby guy in western Pennsylvania.
27:01
I have no idea about this, right?
27:02
So what? What do you think?
27:04
Do you think this is more than one person?
27:08
I always have said I believed it was, and I think that's because
27:13
of the need really for a driver. And then what are you going to
27:17
do afterwards, whether she's alive or not alive, If she's
27:22
alive and you truly plan to keep her for some period of time,
27:25
who's going to handle all of that?
27:27
I mean, you can't be 24/7. You got to feed, you got to
27:31
handle. So this is a 2 man job.
27:34
And back to your point about carrying weight around like
27:37
that, that's not cooperating. That's not walking.
27:40
I actually did a video on that, how difficult it is.
27:44
I'm 110 lbs, I'm 5 foot 1 3/4, not even 52.
27:51
And my husband stuffed me into a gigantic oversized black trash
27:56
bag. He could get me in there, but
27:58
then picking me up to put me into a trunk.
28:01
And he's 175 out every day, you know, 5 foot 10, five foot 11.
28:09
It's not like he's a huge guy. But my point in doing this is
28:13
how difficult it is without having at least a second person
28:18
to manipulate a body. And so to your point, the other
28:24
thing is, and and I've pointed this out and there's a lot of
28:28
you know, some people see it, some people don't, but I see a
28:32
two way radio slash walkie-talkie in the pocket,
28:35
what I'm making out as a square and then an antenna protruding.
28:40
This was over a week ago. It was such an epiphany to me
28:44
when I when I saw it and I was cutting this up with some of the
28:49
people from my team. I'm like, Oh my gosh, this is an
28:53
epiphany because you don't have two reasons.
28:56
You don't have a two way radio. Let me just break in here real
29:00
quick. I I need a reminder from Javi.
29:03
Javi, remind me to let's take a look at the pictures after we've
29:06
finished this with Jen and see if we can find what she says she
29:11
saw, which was like a square outline in a pocket and maybe an
29:15
antenna coming out. I'd like to see if we can also
29:18
see maybe a two way radio. It's Javi's responsibility.
29:22
Everybody let Javi succeed or fail.
29:27
He's doing he's doing great as a producer, by the way.
29:29
Talkie, talkie if you don't have somebody to communicate with.
29:34
And secondarily, could this be why it's taking forever to solve
29:41
this case because you don't have cell phones, so the geofence was
29:45
useless because you're using and it also showed the
29:49
sophistication. So is it possible that this was
29:54
a hired crew hired by the person with the real vendetta?
29:59
Absolutely. OK.
30:03
We talked about financial motive as far as you know, reflecting
30:08
back on the family, that financial motive isn't there.
30:10
But if but for anybody else asking for 1,000,000 bucks, that
30:14
is kind of life changing money, right?
30:16
So what do you think the motive is here?
30:18
Do you think that there is an imaginary motive?
30:21
Maybe they're mad at Savannah and they're getting after her,
30:25
through her, her loved one. Or it could be something as.
30:29
Well, it just doesn't seem like it's going to be something.
30:31
Small and slight. If they have two way radios and
30:34
they're working to stay, you know, to hide their digital
30:40
forensic footprint, right? What?
30:43
What do you think? What do you think the motive is
30:44
here? Do you think it's money?
30:46
Well the reason I don't think it's money is because there was
30:50
never a legitimate ransom demand, only one that went to
30:57
the media and it was 3 days late.
30:59
It was after law enforcement was crawling all over it.
31:02
This. This is not how the cartels
31:04
operate or how anyone making a ransom demand would operate.
31:08
And also, I would argue that anyone who has made the decision
31:13
to kidnap an 84 year old has made a decision to kill the 84
31:17
year old because the 84 year old, the chances of them
31:21
surviving such a situation picked up, likely thrown in a
31:25
trunk with heart problems with a pacemaker.
31:29
I mean, and I think that the person well knew who this was
31:33
and issues they had doesn't make a lot of sense.
31:36
It makes more sense to me that the motive was not really
31:40
abduction, but was probably more likely hurting her and hurting
31:45
this family. Now, who is the target of the
31:48
wrath? Is it Savannah, is it Annie and
31:52
Tomasso? Have they upset somebody?
31:55
Has Cameron, you know, the military man, is he somehow we
32:00
don't know or was it Nancy herself?
32:02
Remember, Nancy is extremely political and and we know the
32:09
craziness that I, I tell you one of my sisters and one of my
32:16
brothers became very estranged, not just not because of politics
32:20
exactly, but because they are very, very, very left when it
32:26
comes to politics. And I stay out of politics.
32:30
But I do have right leaning philosophies like about
32:34
immigration and about crime. I think when you've committed a
32:38
violent crime, you should be kept in jail.
32:40
I don't think you should be able to bond out.
32:43
So we have very different feelings on some of that.
32:47
And I tell you, it took a long time for us to come back to
32:50
center and say, listen, you can have differences, don't need to
32:54
hate each other. And so you wonder about that.
32:57
You're right, we do live in a time where like I've told people
33:00
on my channel, I've got in my church congregation 2 guys that
33:04
have known each other for like 5560 years have been friends
33:07
this whole time until like the last couple years.
33:09
Now they just won't even talk to each other.
33:12
And that's just that's just an indication of kind of where we
33:15
are. And I keep my show politics free
33:18
specifically because everybody has their their opinion right
33:23
and and I love everybody right, left and center.
33:26
But we do live in a place or at or in a time where we really are
33:31
bifurcated. So.
33:33
These are the. Questions I'm sure that the
33:35
investigators are asking, right? Who is the actual target here?
33:40
And yeah, your thought about anybody willing to take an 84
33:43
year old grandmother with heart problems is also willing to kill
33:48
her for sure. That rings completely true to
33:50
me. So what, We're four weeks?
33:53
We're more than four weeks. This happened on her.
33:56
She was last. Seen on January 31st.
33:59
So we're well into the 5th week on this.
34:02
What are investigators doing now?
34:03
What are steps that they're trying to do now?
34:06
Well, the biggest steps they're doing are trying to evaluate a
34:09
lot of this video surveillance. They're trying to find vehicles
34:14
that are passing by this area that were at the Circle K as an
34:18
example, or the lights that were in and around her neighborhood.
34:23
They are poring over that. And that is tedious.
34:26
It's difficult. It's going to take dozens of
34:28
analysts a long time to be able to second by second go through
34:32
that footage from this general time frame.
34:37
In addition, they're going to be looking over everything that was
34:40
said by witnesses. And remember, there were at
34:43
least two canvases done not only in Nancy's neighborhood, but in
34:46
Annie's neighborhood. And of course, I believe that's
34:49
because she could have been followed.
34:52
Tomasso and Nancy could have been followed from that area.
34:55
I mean, if anybody was studying and casing the movements of
35:00
Nancy looking for the perfect time to commit this crime as now
35:05
we know from source information, which I'm always hesitant about
35:08
source information, but it's sort of backed up in a couple of
35:12
ways. Because these two photos that we
35:15
saw in one photo we see darkness in the background and in the
35:20
other photo, the day of the crime on the 1st, we see very
35:24
bright background. When you look at that, it shows
35:27
me a moon difference because this was in a light pollution
35:31
free neighborhood. So that moon difference as an
35:35
example on the first was a full moon, 100% moonlight was
35:41
available. And in a neighborhood like that
35:43
with no light pollution, it's like a flashlight shining down.
35:46
I can speak to this because I lived in one and it's crazy.
35:50
You walk outside and it's like it Dances with Wolves scene.
35:53
You look up and it's a black sky with sparkles, which you don't
35:58
see unless you live in one of these neighborhoods.
36:00
Yet in the other photo that again they're saying is a
36:03
different day, intimating that this he, this person surveilled
36:08
and gave it a test run. In that photo, it's very dark in
36:13
the background. And then there was a lot of
36:16
questions about January 11th because they went, investigators
36:19
went out and asked for additional to everybody to take
36:23
a look. See from the 11th, if you look
36:25
at that, that's a waning Crescent moon in Tucson that
36:29
day, which means very little light.
36:32
So there were a couple of factors.
36:34
The other thing I noticed is the shoes were different on both of
36:37
those days. And there's there's some
36:40
differences there, but I'm not ruling out that it possibly
36:45
could be the same day and two different people.
36:47
Lots of crimes where people dress alike purposefully.
36:52
We saw it with the bank robbers, the Hollywood bank robbers in
36:55
California, remember they had that big shootout with the LAPD
36:59
were shot multiple times. They dressed alike.
37:01
Look at Klebold and Harris, look at there was a big train heist
37:06
that was done. They all dressed alike.
37:08
There was a jewelry heist. They all dressed alike.
37:11
So you can imagine, I'm telling you, if I did a crime like this,
37:15
I would insist we all dress alike because then who's really
37:19
responsible for what part? It would make it so difficult to
37:23
be proven. Yeah, Matt, I appreciate your
37:27
insights. Jen, this is this has been I'm,
37:31
I'm deeply grateful for it for my audience who don't know, like
37:33
I just reached out to you a couple hours ago and you were
37:36
willing to come on and I really appreciate that.
37:40
Where can where can people find you?
37:44
So I'm at on Twitter X at Coffin Daffer FBI and that I would say
37:50
is my largest platform. And then I also have a podcast
37:53
called Break the Case with Jen Coffin Daffer a nice It's a
37:57
small audience. We're growing about 37,000
38:01
subscribers. Would love to have anybody
38:04
interested subscribe. We do morning shows every
38:07
morning at about 8:00, somewhere between 8:00 and 8:30.
38:10
Just a short show on Nancy Guthrie Right now is where we're
38:13
concentrating. Awesome.
38:15
I will put a link in the description below so people can
38:17
find you. Thank you very much for joining
38:19
me. Jennifer Coffendafer, retired
38:21
FBI. Those are some great insights.
38:23
Thanks, Jen. Thank you.
38:26
And indeed, I did put the link down below to her ex profile and
38:32
to her break the case pod or channel here on YouTube.
38:37
So you guys can check that out. And if you're listening on
38:40
Spotify, I'll put those links in Spotify as well.
38:43
By the way, if you are on Spotify, that is a great way to
38:46
support the channel just by following me there.
38:51
What's that? Javi, Javi, Javi.
38:56
Javi reminded me. Javi reminded me.
39:00
Good job, Javier. Let's see if we can see a two
39:04
way radio in these images at all.
39:11
Like AI don't know. I don't know.
39:17
It's it's hard to tell. It is hard.
39:20
These are the two different times, right?
39:25
No, no, no, that one was in a different time.
39:27
It was this one that was a different time.
39:30
There is there does seem to be something in his right pocket in
39:34
this in this one. Not sure about a walkie-talkie
39:39
though. It just be very difficult for me
39:41
to tell. Just be very difficult for me to
39:43
tell. However, if, if, if you're smart
39:48
as a criminal, which we know you're not because you're a
39:52
criminal, but if you're on the smart end of the criminal
39:55
spectrum, now they're brilliant criminals.
39:58
We just don't know about those. The ones that the ones that we
40:01
know about are the ones that are dumb.
40:03
But anyway, not having a cellular digital footprint
40:09
anywhere near the crime scene and not having it be out of the
40:13
ordinary for you would, yeah. Would be would be pretty smart.
40:21
It would definitely be pretty smart.
40:22
Let's see if there are any comments.
40:24
Oh, I did. I did start a poll on this.
40:29
Just wondering what you guys think.
40:33
Do we think that Nancy Guthrie is still alive?
40:36
4% of you say yes, 32 say I hope so and 64 say sadly no.
40:42
So 96% of us, I think that Nancy Guthrie is probably no longer on
40:48
this mortal coil. I think, Yeah, I think that
40:54
probably there's no more than a 4% chance that she is, which is
40:58
just terrible and horrible. But at 84 years old, going
41:05
through the gauntlet of being taken from your home in the
41:10
middle of the night, leaving blood on the doorstep, I, I
41:14
just, I can't imagine that that's something that she would
41:17
have survived, though. I'm with you.
41:19
I hope so. I really deeply hope so.
41:24
Let's see if there are any more comments that you guys want me
41:27
to see. Let's see there a couple more
41:31
that you didn't necessarily put GF on, but they're good
41:34
comments. Love Miss Jen, though.
41:35
I do think she's putting way too much confidence on those photos
41:38
videos as far as how dark or light it is.
41:41
Yeah. Miss Courtney said Nancy was
41:46
very open on her political views on her Facebook.
41:50
Yep. Mooney trying to meet that goal.
41:53
I think that's number five. We're close.
41:56
We're close and we've got some. We got some time left,
41:59
everybody. We got some time.
42:00
And thank you so much for for taking care of me like that.
42:04
Is there a state or National Park near Nancy's house?
42:08
Asks Beth. Let's see southern AZ national
42:14
parks. Let's see if there are.
42:21
Seguaro National Park is out there, Oregon Pipe Cactus
42:30
National Monument, Chitikawa National Monument.
42:34
Let's see if there are any state parks, Southern Arizona State
42:40
parks. Let's see.
42:43
There's catch near Cabin State Park and Patagonia Lake State
42:48
Park down there in southern Arizona.
42:50
I don't know if that helps Beth, but but it appears that there
42:53
are some Autumn says. Just looked up the moon phase
42:57
for January 31st. It was 96 to 98% full.
43:00
So she's probably so it was probably bright out as far as
43:05
you know relative to what is normal.
43:08
Fig Finder Savannah Guthrie gives weird vibes on interviews.
43:12
I I don't know if you we can put much stock in that though.
43:16
I mean, I I would be acting weird too.
43:22
I would be acting weird too. Emmy 53.
43:26
Everyone is speculating so it can.
43:27
So it can also be a Taser, even in the holster.
43:31
Could be a Taser, not a gun. Let's let's go back to some of
43:37
these images right here. Yeah, I think it's possible,
43:41
though of course, I'm no expert and I don't think a gun expert
43:50
could even say with any degree of certainty.
43:54
But to me that does look like a Ruger.
43:58
That looks like a Ruger little 22 with the with the size of the
44:02
slide and everything. Plus it's all completely black.
44:06
So could it be a Taser? Well, I mean, this is a infrared
44:11
night vision, right? So possibly, possibly, let's
44:19
see. Yeah, we are speculating it is
44:22
true, Miss Courtney says I wake up every morning and hopefully
44:26
to find out she's safe. I'm thank you for sharing that
44:29
with us. Mills says there's definitely
44:34
pics or video of the walkie-talkie, which I haven't,
44:37
I haven't seen yet. Let me see if I can see
44:41
anything. I, I see a kind of a zipper in
44:44
that lower part of his sweatshirt or jacket, whatever
44:49
you want to call it. Oh, hang on.
44:57
There was a view there that let me come back to let's pause it
45:03
right there. Hard to tell.
45:08
Hard to tell. Yeah, hard to tell.
45:19
I don't know. I don't know.
45:22
You guys are all so terrific. Let's see.
45:28
Yeah, The Grand Canyon is in Arizona.
45:30
You're right. There's video on the mob crew
45:34
channel. He did on the antenna.
45:36
Don't want you to look silly. OK.
45:37
Thank you, Elizabeth says glad you're back.
45:40
Thank you very much for that, Elizabeth.
45:42
I appreciate it. Let's bring Nancy's picture up
45:45
since we're talking about her. All right, guys, I I really
45:49
appreciate Jen for coming on go follow her on Twitter.
45:52
Check out breaking the case with Jen coffin Daphra and I've got
45:56
that LinkedIn the description down below.
45:59
And now what time is it? What time is it?
46:04
It's time for three questions. Let's get it all.
46:13
All right, guys, in this segment, it's very simple.
46:18
And Kimberly, my beloved, my snuggly bear, my squeezy pie, my
46:24
everything. She tells me that I probably
46:26
should narrow it down to one question.
46:29
It's it's the question with Gavin Fish.
46:34
Maybe I don't know. What do you guys think about
46:37
that? I kind of like the three
46:38
questions format, but my wife has never steered me wrong, has
46:45
she? There was a house that we bought
46:48
once that wasn't a good buy. But then again, this house
46:51
wasn't necessarily goodbye either.
46:53
So, you know, let's not hold that against her.
46:56
Let's not she does not steer me wrong.
46:59
Should it be the question with Gavin Fish or just should we
47:02
stick with three questions with Gavin Fish?
47:05
I will let you be the judge. In fact, you know what we're
47:08
going to do, we are going to do. We're going to do a new poll.
47:14
Let's end this poll here. Hopefully it'll end.
47:17
What is going on? It doesn't want to end.
47:20
End the poll. There we go.
47:23
Let's do a new one. Oh, it won't let me do more than
47:27
one. Oh, come on, man.
47:31
All right, well, we'll do that in another in another live
47:33
stream. Should we do the question with
47:35
Gavin Fish with three questions for today, Obviously we're going
47:38
to continue with three questions.
47:40
If you would like to ask me a question, you can send it to
47:42
three questions at gavinfish.com.
47:44
Three questions at gavinfish.com spelled out THREE questions at
47:48
gavinfish.com. And I will do my best to answer
47:52
truthfully and completely, though I get to choose the order
47:56
in which I answer them. I've got, I've got a pretty darn
47:58
big spreadsheet right now. OK, question #1 let's get over
48:04
there. Question number one is to go way
48:11
back. Where do you think Jimmy Hoffa
48:13
is buried or discarded underneath Giant Stadium, of
48:18
course. Now I don't know.
48:20
I think that I think that organized crime and mobsters
48:27
were pretty darn good at disposing of bodies at the time.
48:33
I think that Mister Hoffa, sadly or not, depending on what you
48:38
thought of Mr. Hoffa though nobody should just should end
48:40
their life that way. Probably was discarded in some
48:45
sort of crematorium, makeshift crematorium.
48:52
I think that in like still steel mills or some, some place where
48:59
they have very, very, very hot kilns.
49:03
I think that he was probably discarded there.
49:05
That's my guess. That's my guess.
49:08
But I think that will be a mystery for the ages.
49:11
What was that show? Was that, was that Bruce
49:15
Almighty where he found the body of Jimmy?
49:18
Jimmy Hoffa, where do you think I like, I like your answers to
49:24
these questions. By the way, where do you think
49:25
Jimmy Hoffa was discarded? Question #2 do you have any
49:31
interest in interviewing any of the perpetrators of crimes
49:34
you've covered on this channel? And either way, why or why not?
49:38
And what would you hope to get out of it?
49:41
This is from Rhea, by the way, who asked the IT was Jude.
49:44
The last question Rhea asks, do I, do I want to interview
49:48
anybody that I've where I've covered their crime on this
49:51
channel? Yeah.
49:54
I would love to interview Antoine Garner.
49:59
I would love. Antoine Garner is the person I
50:02
think is most likely responsible for the death of Amanda
50:05
Winkowski. You can find her case on my
50:08
website, gavinfish.com. There's always a link down the
50:10
description. I think I I would love to talk
50:18
to Sam Goldberg and I would, I would be, I would be Keith
50:23
Morrison about it. I would repeat back in like
50:28
disbelieving and sarcastic ways his answers so you didn't murder
50:35
Ellen Greenberg. And I would do something with my
50:38
eyebrows. So you've lived with the guilt
50:44
of killing Ellen Greenberg, have you?
50:46
Oh, you say you haven't. Fascinating.
50:50
I would love to just, I don't know, be a jerk to that guy
50:55
'cause I think that he, it's just my opinion, right?
50:59
But based on all the evidence that I've seen, I think it's
51:02
reasonable to come to the opinion that Ellen Greenberg was
51:05
not murdered and that he was the last person to see her.
51:09
So there's that. What would I get out of it?
51:12
Personal satisfaction. I don't think that I have any
51:15
training in order to get any, any type of, you know, new
51:20
information out of them that I didn't have before.
51:23
Any type of confession. It would just be fascinating.
51:26
Now, there are those that I am uninterested in talking to.
51:30
I don't care to wits about Stephen Sterns.
51:35
I think that he can just rot. I do not care about Barrymore
51:41
few so many that I just I just do not care about what was his
51:48
name. That was the oh, oh, the, the,
51:55
the dill holes and idiots that that, you know, had the terrific
52:05
idea of dropping an anvil out of their pickup truck to kill
52:10
Veronica Butler and Jillian Kelly.
52:13
I don't want to talk to them. I do not want to talk to the
52:17
good pastor, the good pastor. JP Miller.
52:22
No, I, I don't care about those folks.
52:24
I don't. I don't care about Brian Walsh.
52:27
Yeah, but I wouldn't mind talking to Antoine Garner and
52:32
Sam Goldberg. I I wouldn't mind talking to
52:35
them at all. Love to hear your thoughts on
52:37
that. Last question for this segment
52:40
is what's the Monique? The Monique?
52:42
I've got Monique Tepi on the brain here.
52:45
What's the most unique pet your family had when you were growing
52:49
up as a kid? This is very easy to answer.
52:54
The most unique pet we ever had growing up as a kid was a dog we
53:01
didn't have in my childhood. We had two pets, Copper and
53:07
Boomer, and Boomer was the son of Copper and that was it.
53:14
Now our children can say differently.
53:17
We've had rabbits, we've had chickens, we've had mice, we've
53:22
had snakes, we've had parrots, we have had dogs, we have had
53:29
cats. So my children can definitely I
53:35
I think out of all the pets that we've had, maybe my favorite
53:42
just in like having a pet was our house rabbit.
53:46
I our first house rabbit, her name is Rosie.
53:51
She was terrific. That was pretty cool, but we
53:54
didn't have unique now we had animals that we cared for, right
53:59
that we really loved. Like when I was when I was a
54:01
kid, my brothers. My nickname to my brothers is
54:04
I'm named after a cow that I particularly liked.
54:10
That cow was the coolest animal. I loved her and spent many an
54:18
hour upon her back riding her to the milk shed and back, or the
54:24
milk barn and back. I loved that cow and yeah, not
54:31
really a pet though, and not ours.
54:33
That cow belonged to a neighbor farmer and I just happened to be
54:38
an amazing cow Wrangler. No, she was awesome.
54:42
She was the leader of the herd and she would not move past me
54:47
until I hopped on her. Then off to the barn she would
54:50
go and then as we traveled back down to to their field, she
54:59
would not go any further until I hopped off in the same place
55:02
where she picked me up every day.
55:03
So yeah, that's I loved that cow.
55:08
That was a great cow. All right, those are your three
55:13
questions. Now why don't we head on into
55:17
headlines while you answer those 3 questions?
55:25
True crime. Headlines POW Okie dokie guys, I
55:28
have kept my eye on the Cory Richens trial today.
55:33
Let me let me bring that up on the screen.
55:36
This from kutv.com written by Derek Fox and Brian Schnee.
55:41
Attorneys focus on insurance policies, beneficiaries and
55:44
murder trial against Cory Richens on this one.
55:47
Unlike Nancy Guthrie, at least in the opinion of Jen
55:51
Coffendaffer, this one is about money.
55:55
Dateline Park City, UT life insurance policies and divorce
55:58
were the topic of debate on Wednesday during the ongoing
56:02
murder trial against Cory Richins, the Utah mother and
56:05
children's book author. I think is what they meant to
56:08
say. Accused of poisoning her husband
56:10
with a lethal dose of fentanyl. Lethal meaning could kill a herd
56:14
of elephants. Day eight of the five week
56:17
murder trial started an hour later than usual with Judge
56:20
Richard Mrazik telling the jury I appreciate your patience with
56:23
my calendar. Once seated, state prosecutor
56:26
started quickly. Excuse me.
56:30
Oh, Gavin, you've got something just for this.
56:34
There we go. There we go to cover up my
56:36
yawns. It's not, it's not tiredness.
56:41
It is. I'm not breathing properly,
56:43
right? OK?
56:47
Lashonda Rogers of New York Life Insurance Company to review life
56:51
insurance policies. Rogers noted there was a
56:53
beneficiary change on a policy belonging to Cody Wright, the
56:56
business partner partner of Eric Richins.
56:59
Corey Richins, late husband. The beneficiary change from Eric
57:04
Richins to Corey Richins before going back to Eric?
57:09
No, no, it went back to Cody. OK.
57:14
Over the course of a few days in January 2022, Rogers said it
57:21
appeared Corey was the one who had been managing the online
57:24
activity since it was her e-mail being used.
57:27
Defense attorneys, however, argued that anyone could have
57:29
been making changes. Yeah, trying to plant those
57:32
seeds of doubt using Corey Richard's e-mail and later
57:35
confirmed that after all was said and done, no actual changes
57:38
were made to the policy. Yeah.
57:40
So it's all about the money with Miss Cory Richens.
57:45
We will keep our eye on the case now, Emmy, you will be happy to
57:49
hear. Yes, indeed.
57:52
There was a hearing for Ashley Buzzard, but she was absent from
57:57
the court hearing for the second time.
57:59
According to katherineherdern@ksby.com.
58:03
A Vandenberg Village mother charged with murdering her nine
58:06
year old daughter last year was absent from her latest court
58:09
hearing. Oh Dang it, OK.
58:15
In a Lompoc courtroom Wednesday morning, it was stated Buzzard,
58:18
40, had filed A refusal to appear due to being sick.
58:23
It's the second time hearings of her case have been held without
58:26
her being present. She was also absent from her
58:28
hearing last month for the same reason.
58:33
Santa Barbara County Superior Court Judge Stephen Dunkel told
58:36
the court that if Buzzard does not show in her March 18th
58:39
preliminary hearing setting, an extraction order will be issued
58:42
which will give authorities permission to remove Buzzard
58:45
from jail to attend court. In court, Buzzard's public
58:49
defender also stated she is still waiting on additional
58:52
evidence from the Department of Justice.
58:54
So that is where we are on the Ashley Buzzard case.
58:59
And there's more to the article. I'll put a link in the
59:02
description. Last headline for the night that
59:05
I want to bring to you is from the New York Daily News.
59:09
They are quoting Newsweek, I believe.
59:11
But I do like how they frame the article.
59:14
So we're using this one written by Jamie Gans.
59:17
Headline says Reiners were warned not to let Nick live at
59:21
home before the murders Jamie Wright's Rob Reiner and Michelle
59:26
Singer Reiner were cautioned against having their adult son
59:29
Nick living in their home shortly before authorities say
59:31
he killed his parents in cold blood, according to a new
59:36
report. Dang it Gavin OK.
59:40
The 32 year old middle child of the late couple who also shared
59:43
son Jake 3428 year old daughter Romy pleaded not guilty last
59:47
month to two counts of first degree murder in the December 14
59:50
deaths of the When Harry Met Sally director 78 and 70 year
59:54
old photographer quote. The medical staff warned Rob and
59:58
Michelle not to let Nick live at home until he got his medication
1:00:01
straightened out. A source told Oh not not
1:00:04
Newsweek Us Weekly in this week's cover story.
1:00:08
In addition to battling substance abuse since his
1:00:10
teenage years, Nick, who is staying in his parents guest
1:00:13
house at the time of the killings.
1:00:15
It was in a mental health conservatorship from 2020 to
1:00:17
2021. He's reportedly been diagnosed
1:00:20
with schizophrenia or schizophrenic disorder, blah,
1:00:24
blah, blah. And we've we've covered the case
1:00:27
at length here on the channel. If that is the case, that
1:00:31
medical staff did indeed tell Robin Michelle that he shouldn't
1:00:36
live at home, then that just makes it all the more tragic.
1:00:40
And those, my friends, are your headlines.
1:00:50
True crime. Headlines OK, let me just go to
1:00:55
your comments to finish this out tonight.
1:00:58
Ohio Pom mom extra funds for your good helpers.
1:01:01
Thank you very much for that super chat deeply appreciate it.
1:01:06
Let's see. Mooney says I like 3, but what
1:01:12
do I know? I like 3, but what do I know?
1:01:15
Not sure what. Oh, you like 3 headlines?
1:01:19
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
1:01:20
OK. Diane Faris says 2 questions.
1:01:25
Three questions, says Christine Meadows.
1:01:27
I don't know. Mooney says Hoffa was poured in
1:01:30
a concrete foundation, perhaps. Yeah.
1:01:36
Sharky, Sharona, some awful cases.
1:01:38
Thank you very much for that. Autumn says she had two hermit
1:01:44
crabs. Emmy says they had geckos.
1:01:49
Let's see. T Square Late to the chat from
1:01:51
the home of the 88 Winter Olympics 88, where was 88?
1:01:58
Was that Lake Tahoe, was that Squaw Valley or was that 80?
1:02:02
I can't remember. Thank you for being here, I
1:02:03
appreciate it. Emmy says she did not have pets.
1:02:07
Archangel says they had chickens.
1:02:11
Noise, noise. Mooney says I would not like to
1:02:16
interview Adam Montgomery ever. Very, very good.
1:02:21
Emmy says the Reiner case is tragic.
1:02:24
Yes, yes, yes, that is true. All right guys, we will be back
1:02:30
tomorrow, 6:00 PM Eastern right here on this channel to continue
1:02:35
with our next true crime conversation.
1:02:37
Of course, we will keep our we will keep our eye on the Quarry
1:02:44
Richens case and there are there are plenty of other things that
1:02:48
are happening in the world of true crime.
1:02:49
So we will continue to do that. Please let me just do a quick
1:02:53
pitch for those of you who are sticking around to the very end.
1:02:57
If you go to my website whichisgavinfish.com very easy
1:03:00
to remember, you can go to the description down below and you
1:03:04
will you will find it. There's a page that's the
1:03:08
support me page. Guys.
1:03:10
I don't know what has happened, but I've been talking with
1:03:12
everybody and well not everybody, but so many of my
1:03:15
friends in the true crime world and are what they call RPM has
1:03:21
just crashed revenue per 1000 views.
1:03:25
It is just crashed. And in addition to that, so have
1:03:30
the actual views, at least on my channel and several other
1:03:33
channels. And so I deeply appreciate those
1:03:36
who gave super chats today. There are other ways that you
1:03:38
can support me here listed on the Support me page.
1:03:42
Thank you to those of you who do that.
1:03:44
And also please Scroll down to the bottom and remember that
1:03:48
Autumn deserves a coffee or two for being our chief chat
1:03:54
Wrangler. As our lead moderator, you can
1:03:57
click on that button to support Autumn If you you're always
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cordially invited to click on this little fishy up in the
1:04:04
upper right hand corner of the website that will take you to
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1:04:14
invitation. An open invitation with that
1:04:16
guys, I bid you. I do thank you very much for
1:04:19
being here and I'll see you on the next one.
1:04:22
Take care. Thank you very much for watching
1:04:25
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