Latest / GEL & Tell / Ep 4 - Craig Swinton: From Paramedic to Online Coach | TikTok, Steroids & Building a Fitness Brand

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Ep 4 - Craig Swinton: From Paramedic to Online Coach | TikTok, Steroids & Building a Fitness Brand · GEL & Tell

• Nora: Hello, guys, and welcome back to Gel and Tell. We've got a very special guest today with us, the one and only Craig. Craig, hello. Craig: Hello, how are you? Nora: Hello, I'm good, yeah, how are you? Craig: ⁓ I'm the dream. Nora: ⁓ just to maybe give a bit of an intro to the people ⁓ on Obviously, we've been working together for a very long time now. ⁓ in of like context, ⁓ Craig a great dad, great business owner, paramedic. Yeah, no longer a paramedic, but a trained paramedic that's worked as a paramedic for years. Craig: Always living the dream. Nora: And an amazing TikToker, which sparked the conversation on bringing him on the podcast, which is super exciting. Can't wait to get into it. But yeah, buzzing for this. Love it. G: Let's start with Craig. How would you describe Craig Swinton in 10 seconds? ⁓ Craig: Jesus Christ, charismatic, great looking, ⁓ and doesn't give a shit. Nora: I would agree on all of those points and even more on the last one. Do you want to say how you found your first experience going on one of Craig's lives? G: Yeah. So maybe context, I've known Craig for a few years, but haven't worked as directly with Craig as Nora has as his business coach. So I've known how successful you are in your business and how hard working you are and the amazing results you get for clients, but hadn't experienced your community on TikTok before. And ⁓ my God, it was fucking phenomenal. ⁓ picture this, it's a Tuesday night. I'm scrolling TikTok and I come across a TikTok live of Craig. 100 people in the chat. It's half past 10 and it's popping off. And I have to say, Craig, it was much more entertaining than Love Island anything on my TV that evening. I really enjoyed it. The chat was really interesting and the way that you just held the space, I loved. what I like enjoyed so much about yours was the science, ⁓ swearing. the really and smart business plugs that were sprinkled in. but talking like steroid usage, bodybuilding, people's health and fitness, but relating it back to like the science and your experience as an actual medical practitioner, I think it I was like really interested in what you were saying, but also like everything was backed up and you were really like engaged with the chat. which is what's great. I was like learning a lot. was texting Nora like, what's this? What's that? Thought it was fab. Nora: She was like, he's brilliant. I love this. I'm going to be joining this more often. Craig: See now Georgia, this is why Nora doesn't join very often because Nora tells me, Nora tells me not to swear. So Nora's in the corner saying Craig, Craig, you shouldn't be swearing like that. But it's good that it's my Cypriot accent, not yours. But no, mean, TikTok Live, TikTok is literally the thing that's driven my business. Nora: Do. You Is that my Cypriot accent? Yeah, fair. Craig: So all started in lockdown, I think that's when TikTok became popular everyone. And I started with posts. ⁓ So just ⁓ posts like the shitty dances all the of it. ⁓ And then I quickly realized that I could gear more towards ⁓ the business, get more eyes on because it was such a reach at the time. ⁓ You could a shitty post and get. Nora: Mm. Craig: 100,000 people watching it. So that's where it started. then the lives truly it was because I was bored. I was in prep. So I was doing my 45 minutes of cardio every day. I was like, well, how can I optimize my time? No, can't be on my bike texting and I can't be producing that much content. But what I can do is sit in front of the camera and talk to loads of fucking idiots that want to Nora: Yeah. Craig: watch me sweat on a bike. A lot of gay guys, granted, not many of them wanted online coaching, but engagement rose nevertheless. And it's just one of those things where it just grew, the community grew. found my niche of where I wanted to be with the lives. And very became my biggest lead magnet. And I think... Nora: Yeah. Craig: mainly because people got to see me, they got to see the personality, they got to see what they were buying into over and above progress photos and education and it's the coach that they saw. So that's why I pushed it so much. It just blew up really. And that's where most of my followers come from as well. Nora: Yeah. I think the biggest thing that we love, having watched it and experienced it live was the strategic, like little bits that you do within the live that like promote your business even more without you being like, buy this, buy this, buy this, which is like, it's not as much in your face, but it's very strategic. And you plug like your lead magnets that we've created across the years, you plug like your coaching and people ask in the comments and like want to find out more. ⁓ kind of almost is a bit of like a ripple effect of like, you say one thing, but then the comments feed it further and then more people get interested through it. Because we get quite a few downloads of the back of your lead magnets from Just Alives, isn't it? That's how the email list was built. Yeah. Craig: Thousands, I go a live and I spend 60 minutes on a live, ⁓ I ⁓ know gonna about 50 downloads per live. ⁓ You multiply that consistently, six lives a week, it builds up into lot of people. G: Yeah, Nora: Yeah. Yeah. 100%. 100%. G: That's amazing. And obviously like you're getting people to follow you from the live. So your followers are increasing. So you're getting email addresses because we don't own our followers like on any platform, but we do own our mailing list. So that's like amazing from that angle of the business. And then what I loved even more is people are booking calls. So you're moving them even further along the funnel because you're like people asking coaching questions and you're saying, well, if you do want that level of detail, you're to need my one-to-one coaching, book a call here. And then you're like, cool. Nora: Yeah. G: Sharon's book to call or whatever, but you're seeing literally, it's almost like like telly sales channels, but without selling anything other than your personality. ⁓ people are like downloading, following, buying. Yeah, really, really cool. ⁓ I more people should be getting on it. Nora: Yeah. Craig: But I like watching people like Gary V. V is one of those, he tell you what you should be doing. And nine times out of 10, it's probably gonna work. ⁓ And pushes telesales a lot, just because ⁓ you on TikTok, what do see ⁓ on every post? ⁓ It's something sold or someone giving a review on something being sold with a link to it. And the same with the lives. People are there selling products on 50 % of their lives now. Well, whilst I don't have a physical product, we've got digital product, digital assets, and you've got the coach. And I always think, why are people selling or buying more off there than they are by like off Argos or something like that? Well, they're seeing the product work. They're actually, they almost feel like, They've got the hands on the product before they buy it. G: Yeah. Nora: Yeah, 100%. I think we are moving towards like a of like consumers where like people buy based on experience rather than like what the actual features are. I think the reason why the lives convert so well for you is because you are you. Like you don't hide through anything. Like you don't try to be someone else that you're not. And you you swear a lot, which seems to work. But yeah, you're authentically yourself and that stands out for sure. Craig: I always wanted to be me. And even as a paramedic, whether I was a paramedic, lifeguard, teaching, that's the approach I always had is just be you, don't try and please everyone. And you'll probably do a lot better in life. And yes, you're going to get a lot of people that think you're a dick. Nora: Yeah. Yeah. Craig: Well, all right, there's a lot of people in the world, so let's just forget about them and move on to the next. Nora: 100%. love to, now that you briefly mentioned it, starting off as a paramedic, then moving into becoming a full-time online coach, I'd love to kind of like go back to that story and like give people a bit of context around how you build up to now be obviously a very successful business owner in the fitness industry. when we started working together, we were still juggling both, you know, building both, yeah, whilst also building a family. So walk us through that timeline of what happened across the last few years? Craig: It's a weird one really because I never wanted to be a paramedic. So my background was always sport. I played sport at a semi-professional level, I'd say. So I played basketball. I ⁓ a house with all the basketball players, ⁓ I always wanted to be ⁓ sports development coach or a ⁓ tutor or something like that. But you quickly realize that there's not a lot of money. If you're going to have a family later on, ⁓ it's... it's not gonna be sustainable for most people. And I had one of those, it sounds really fucking cheesy, but it's the God's honest truth. I had one of those life-changing moments where I was on the motorway and I was behind a car accident. That car accident happened in front of me, a lorry hit a car, that car flipped off the motorway. And that's the first time I've ever experienced anything like that. And for whatever reason, I pulled over. and I went down to see what I could do. And all I did, there was a family, grandparents with three kids and a dog in this car. They got out, bit of blood, and I just stood there with them and just watched the ambulances turn up, the helicopter, the fire engine. Did nothing. Did absolutely nothing. Just stood there with them. And then about two months later, someone turned up at my house and it was the guy who was in the car. He'd driven from Scotland to Nottingham to give me this hamper of whatever it was, like chocolates and all the rest of it. ⁓ he said me stopping, and with them had. change that experience for the better for them and the grandkids because I was having a laugh and a joke with the grandkids it was one those moments where you really you feel like it's changed your life forever so it was that point that I thought well how do I get more of this how do I have an impact on other people's lives originally I wanted to join the fire service but you just couldn't at that point Nora: Yeah. Craig: So then I started looking at the ambulance service and that's when I applied, went through university and started that. But that was how I got into the ambulance service. 12 years later, did lots of things in the ambulance service, very lucky to ⁓ have experienced different roles and do the jobs that wanted to do. But you just realized that wise, NHS for me wasn't something I was going to do long-term. ⁓ real higher progressions. You're limited on what you could earn. ⁓ limited on how it impacts on your life with shift work and how that impacts on what you can do with holidays and things like that. ⁓ I wanted to find something that I could do that I was passionate about, fitness, and make more money. ⁓ that's when I started. looking into a PT business, firstly person and then progressing to online. And then fast forward five years, here we are. Nora: Here we are. And you've built an amazing community and a great business. But yeah, think just the story like shows like the values that ⁓ based your business on as well, as much as, like, I think when people, you know, come to your lives or see like, they can like the, unfiltered Craig, the sweary Craig, but like, one thing that I always say like, you are a good human, you know, that has great values and coaching as much as it's based around transformations. You're not just after that before and after picture, ⁓ is ⁓ makes you like a really, really, really good coach. How did you find both? Cause at some point ⁓ you were in a position where you could go full time straight away. There was a time where we were working together I think you were managing about 40 to 50 clients while still being part time, three to four days a week. So yeah, walk me through that phase of your life. Craig: think when we started really pushing the online, I was still full-time as a paramedic. I was even doing in-person coaching at the time as well. That was tough. It was very, it was very stressful. It was very, I was self-limiting as well. You just can't push things where you want because you don't have the time to do it. I was lucky because At the time I was in a role, I was in a specialist unit role and truth be told, we didn't do a lot. We were saved for the big jobs. We didn't have to do the run-of-the-mill paramedic work. So I was privileged that I could basically do the admin side whilst I was at work. But it did get to a point where it was just too much. I can remember there was a, remember the day, I can remember I was, I was in my bedroom. And I had about a two week spell where I just couldn't sleep because I was just constantly wanting to reply to clients straight away, setting any boundaries, taking too much. ⁓ And truly think I was in a depressed state at that point ⁓ because was just getting too much. It was ⁓ all elements my life ⁓ because I this so bad. I wanted to push the business so much, but... I wasn't quite ready to let go of what I'd worked 12 years for, you know, to get to the pinnacle of my career, as it were. And I don't think we, I don't think it was me and you working together at this point. Then I transitioned to yourself. I think that's when we decided, look, you're to have to go part-time because you're just not going to be able to push any further. Very tough decision But I think as soon as I did it, as soon as I made the decision, it was like, almost like a relief. I'd got a lot of weight off my shoulders. And it was that point I knew I could really start pushing the online business. And that's happened, I think probably three or four times, leaving heart to go back on the road part-time, then going to one day a week in a different role in a different area. So then saying, well, fuck it, I'm gonna leave it all together. So there's been... Nora: I remember that, Craig: several points in that transition where I've had massive anxiety for leaving the unknown of what's going to happen with your business and then a massive relief because I've actually done it. Nora: So tricky, isn't it? ⁓ that transition, I think, it's a bit of an identity thing as well of like, you know, I'm living this thing that I thought I was meant to be doing my entire life. And then suddenly you become more passionate about, you know, the side household that you're building that you're like, it just makes sense now for me, but it's still scary to leave. one thing that would say experiencing this as like someone that has been in your corner through that process was even though did take the jump to go fully self-employed, your work ethic, like is unbeaten in my opinion. like it almost as if like, yes, it was risky, but you didn't give yourself a choice for it not to work. And that's one thing that I've always admired about you is like do the thing even if you don't feel like doing it. Like, so yeah, I think a lot of people can take lessons from this. You know, there have been days, and we've had discussions about this where you didn't feel like doing things, but you still showed up. sometimes I go to the gym at like 6am and I get a notification you're live on TikTok. And I'm like, what is this guy But ⁓ it just shows the of what you have to put yourself through to build a successful business like you have. Craig: Mm-hmm. know, ⁓ work with a lot of coaches. I talk to a lot of coaches, ⁓ that want to get into coaching, people that are and want to progress and people that maybe, maybe are seeing a decline in the business. And the biggest fracture in my opinion, people don't understand how much it takes. ⁓ And by means am I where I want to be. Like I'm, always want to set the bar higher and I'm perhaps only scratching surface. on where I want the business to be. But people need to understand how much time you have to put into it. coaching is not sitting on a beach in Dubai, It's fucking grinding every single day. ⁓ Even when you're on holiday, rightly or wrongly doing check-ins ⁓ and doing and it's ⁓ fucking tough. Nora: Yeah, 100%. What would you say is the biggest driver for your growth? Because obviously you tripled, quadrupled your business since, we've together personally. I know there's been more growth before that. ⁓ Yeah, more than. you were to pinpoint one thing that made the difference in your business to get it to the growth it is now hitting these big months that we are hitting? Craig: more than. Nora: What would that be? Craig: I think for me, was having the confidence to say, know what? You're one, good at your fucking job. Two, ⁓ worth what you're charging. And okay if people don't want to work with you. They're the three biggest things. Cause ⁓ I all three of them can create that, that fear that it's like that imposter syndrome, isn't it? So you want to push things cause you don't want to be seen as a fake. G: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Craig: You don't want to charge something because you don't want to be seen to be taking the piss ⁓ just, you like self limit. ⁓ So think as soon as I started truly believing that you're okay this, you're getting results, that's what was big changer for me. Cause I think ⁓ I was then to ⁓ commit to the calls. I was able to commit to answering the questions online. And at that point, you become that point of authority and people are more likely to work with you. G: Mm. Love that. You get amazing results for your clients as well, which I think ⁓ helps with that authority. your are on another level. ⁓ How do you get people to comply with the plan and get those kinds of results? Like what do you do that you think is different? Like we've worked with loads of coaches and like there's some great people out there, but they're not great coaches. Sorry, not sorry. And they can't get people in shape. Craig: You know what? There is a secret. There's absolutely a secret and it's called, it's fucking simple. And the time, it's not fucking hard to get people lean and it's not fucking hard to help people build muscle. It's ridiculously simple. It's just so all these other pricks out there ⁓ promising a different kind of secret that has got nothing to do with what's going to actually give you results. ⁓ they focus on G: Mm-hmm. Craig: the small percentages rather than the low hanging fruit. So I'm not saying I'm the best coach, but I get really good, consistent results because I help people figure out that it's about what they're eating, eat more, eat less. It's about lifting weights and doing a moderate amount of activity, training hard and not complicating the fucker. As soon as you start complicating it, it's just going to fail. So, yeah, I think my secret is just keep it fucking simple. downside to that is people don't want simple people want the secret. So it's how do I, how do we get them convinced that it's not about this supplement. It's not about ⁓ this special diet. Nora: Yeah. Craig: is about doing simple things ⁓ and it well. G: 100 % I think that's brilliant. And it's something we see a lot as well in business. People are looking for a magic bullet. They're looking for some tactic they've never heard of or something that's going to completely get them to that 10k month that they think there's impossible, which it isn't if you just do the right things every single day. And they're the simple things, starting conversations, posting content, getting results like it's so frustrating that people are always looking for magic. Craig: So you work with coaches, right? And this is something that pisses me off left, right and fucking center. So got coaches that are promising the secret to get shredded. And then you've got coach mentors that are just failed coaches ⁓ that are promising the secret for 10K month. ⁓ What's your guys thoughts on them G: We do, yeah. Mm-hmm. Nora: Yeah. G: same. The way that I view it is that with the mentors or the gurus, all these people that are doing it, you are going to go and invest in someone, look at their track record and results, look at what business they built. I've never had a coaching business. That's not my background. I've got 10 years of marketing experience. So I'm not sat here being like, I'll help you build your coaching empire. Cause I've built my own. No, I can help you market your coaching business and grow it because I've got 10 years of marketing experience. It's more a case of look at the results and record of ⁓ And if they have built an amazing business or can get results, then cool. ⁓ But. there's too many people that haven't done that. So I just be really mindful because it's actually quite terrifying how many are cropping up on the internet. yeah, I think it's oversaturated now and it's highly problematic in many, many ways. Nora: ⁓ and with the rise of AI as well, like what pisses me off on this topic is not, only... ⁓ no! ⁓ Craig: did you just swear? G: No, said it's wild, ⁓ Craig: my God, that's the first time I've heard you swear. Nora: Okay, what? G: Really? Nora said ball ache yesterday and it made my day because I say that all the time. went yeah it's such a ball ache and I was like girls learning. Craig: ⁓ my God. ⁓ my God. Nora: I love how you're both so proud of me. That is iconic. What frustrates me, what frustrates me is with the rise of AI as well. Not only do you get now people preaching the 10K mountains and making it look easy, they also now preach that it's all automated. And I'm like, guys, is anyone going to keep anyone accountable for actually doing the work? Because Craig: Wow. So happy. G: What pisses you off? What pisses you off, Nora? Tell us again. Nora: just, I'm so like, yeah, that just frustrates me. I've always said this and I stand by it. Business is simple. It's not easy. And we going back to what we said earlier, what made you build a great business, Craig, is your work ethic and doing the things when you don't feel like doing them. I think with all these like preaching out there in the 10K months and the Stripe screenshots and X1Z, what you can achieve in three months. kind of almost creates this like false perception of like what it takes to be a really good business owner and to actually love what you do ⁓ and get results. Cause I do think getting great results is a fundamental part of building a sustainable, good business long-term. Yes, you might, get really good at sales and get like a 10K month, you know, within your first three to five months. But if you don't know how to get people results, you're going to build a really bad reputation for yourself that you can't really sustain later. And you're going to realize you've not spent enough time actually servicing your clients well to keep them in. Craig: It's funny what you said about ⁓ AI, because I think coaches have a real cool opportunity with AI right now, because another gripe, not that I'm one to fucking talk about gripes and moan about shit. when you flip through TikTok or Instagram, what do you guys do when you see an AI video? Not a funny one, because I love that shit. You the chiropractor ones where it's like snapping grannies in half and chucking them out windows. I would binge that shit all day. So that is my bag. But when it's an AI video and you know the person is AI and they're trying to sell something or whatever, do you stay and watch it or do you instantly scroll off? G: I always scroll past the AI people and the AI captions as well. They're so boring. It's just not just doesn't feel real anymore. She's boring. Nora: Yeah. Craig: Mmm. Nora: Yeah, 100%. I do think there's big opportunities within business to utilize AI, but someone like you, Craig, you would never automate your check-ins using AI, you know, because you care about the results. Craig: Yeah. Well, and this is what I think. ⁓ think people are gonna be so disengaged ⁓ AI generated content that they are gonna crave originality. They're gonna crave a ⁓ face brand, not just an AI brand. ⁓ for those of us that have a platform already and people have, they already trust that, not trust the face, but know that your face is real. Nora: Mm. Craig: I think doesn't stand a chance for that, personally. G: Yeah, you Nora: I agree. I was actually thinking about this this morning. I have seen recently a lot of either consultants, mentors ⁓ in space that have now switched from doing consulting to building AI businesses or building tools to support their current audience that they're serving with AI tools. And I was thinking to myself, you know, it might work short term. And I think there's a hype around AI at the moment. And it can do amazing things. Don't get me wrong. Like it's super powerful. But I think people will crave that human to things. Someone to keep you accountable because like the computer can't do that, you know, someone to like be that second of eyes on your business, someone to, you know, call you out when you're not doing the work like AI can only you know, potentially give you a to-do list or, you know, yes, maybe you can set up a bot and give you reminders and stuff, ⁓ that person there is just so different. And I think ⁓ always will need that and will crave that. Craig: My he will make most of his decisions ⁓ in life based off a conversation with AI. for me, if that works, it works. I find it really worrying when people that because AI isn't infallible and AI can and AI can, not give you accurate information. So if you're basing decisions off that alone without any kind of external validation, genuinely get worried for people that do that, that literally just talk to AI all day. G: Yeah, it's scary. you seen there was a news article this week and the man's fallen in love with his AI agent and wants to marry it. That's fucked up. Like there is some weird stuff going on in the world with AI. Nora: Yeah. Craig: I mean... Nora: That's wild. Craig: ⁓ what do you say to that? G: I honestly couldn't even tell you, but I do think it is scary. Also, if you use it too much, it's not very fun doing any work. Cause I actually like thinking and using my brain and creativity. And if AI does it all for me, then what's the point in doing, what's the point in building a business that I'm passionate about if I can't actually enjoy working on it. like enjoy it being hard. Craig: That's quote of the day, Georgia likes it being hard. ⁓ G: ⁓ god, ⁓ god! do enjoy it being hard. ⁓ Nora: Anyway, leading up to this podcast, Georgia was we talk about steroids. G: Well, I'm really interested and I've been reading a lot about GLPs and steroids, not because I'm personally wanting to use them, but obviously there's so much noise on the internet about weight loss jabs, peptides, steroids. Can you give us in our audience a bit of a like rundown one-on-one? Like what is a GLP? What is a steroid? What is a peptide? Cause I think a lot of us don't really know. Craig: Yeah, it's obviously a buzz at the minute, isn't it? And I think rightly so because these things, they work. are in terms, are a cheat code ⁓ to get ⁓ the results you want. they work. It's reason why steroids have been around since, for the G: Mm-hmm. Nora: Yeah. Craig: in 100 years maybe. anabolic steroids, there's so many of them ⁓ and basically they're there to help you grow more get leaner, get stronger. So that's their primary role. ⁓ Most steroids ⁓ started off in medicine. So a of steroids used to muscle wastage. ⁓ So we're used to treat certain cancers in women. So things like masturand, primobolan, which are very prevalent anabolic steroids were a primary treatment for breast cancer. A lot of them are used in veterinary practice. So tremolome to make cattle bigger, equipoise to make horses more athletic. So these compounds have been around forever and then people have experimented on themselves. or they've taken bits of knowledge and said, this could do this to me potentially. G: Mm. Craig: Now you go back 30 years, there wasn't a lot of evidence. There was not a lot of people talking about it. So a lot of it was the dude at the gym says, do this. So I do that. I get big without any considerations for health or the pharma kinetics and the biochemistry behind it. is a lot more push towards ⁓ and this is a term that's been coined by my Matt Strong, ⁓ Joe Jeffries, ⁓ John Dewitt is the safer use model. How we use steroids in a safer way to get results ⁓ and ⁓ limit the ⁓ deleterious health effects that they can will In the most recent time, GLPs have been the thing that came onto the market like Azempec, Wigovy, some of Glutide, all the way up to Retatutide. And I think they are literally, they're gonna be the biggest health drug ever created, in my opinion. I was one of these people that really shit on them. And I think mainly because I was quite intimidated by them. I thought these things are going to come in, people are going to lose loads of weight. They're not going to need coaches. But when you talk to people that have used them, when you talk to people have administered them with ⁓ clients and ⁓ they've seen the results that they get, you realize that Ultimately, it's only going to be a net positive because what's the biggest killer on the planet? It's obesity. Yeah. That obesity will cause heart disease or cause diabetes. It will cause stroke, high blood pressure. So if we can literally stop people from being obese, you stop all those other health conditions. G: Obesity. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. That I was reading this, I don't know what the study was, But there was some ⁓ evidence saying that it ages your muscles, they like to play time and like you can like age yourself by like 40 years, ⁓ your muscles just like disintegrate with the GLP is that true? ⁓ Nora: Hmm. Craig: So I think when we look at studies, you always have to take it into context. So when you get the data, people lose muscle tissue ⁓ they use GLP-1s. But I was to ask you the question, do you think ⁓ more less people focus on protein intake and weight training when they go into GLP-1s, ⁓ or you think they jab themselves and starve themselves? G: Yeah, I was going to say people just starving themselves and not doing any exercise. Craig: Yeah. Yeah. So what is the actual cause of muscle wastage whilst using GLP ones? It's the lack of activity and the lack of focus on nutrition. And that is absolutely one of the big risks is OZMPEC came out, it was so highly regulated that people had to have continued support. ⁓ had to have interventions from a nutritionist, ⁓ then you started to able to buy it from the pharmacy. It became a cosmetic drug, not a health drug. ⁓ now ⁓ You've got, and I hate to stereotype, but you've got the housewife at home that's jabbing, not eating anything. I feel amazing. I've lost 40 pounds, but she's malnutritioned and she looks shit because she's lost loads of muscle. G: Yeah. Nora: Yeah. G: ⁓ I that's ⁓ very especially for me, who's always just thought that like, the GLPs are like really bad thing, especially probably because of what I see on social media. But the way you've explained it, I think is really insightful and makes a lot of sense as well. you talk a fair bit about sort of performance enhancing drugs ⁓ as well. what's a peptide? Is that some sort of performance enhancing drug or Craig: think it's in a gray area. So it does enhance performance. if you look at it from, okay, does me injecting this or consuming this enhance my performance? The answer is yes. then if you look at WADA, which is World Anti-Doping Association, a of organizations are now looking at peptides and they are on the WADA list because they work. So in if you want to compete in a natural federation, you have to be really careful of what peptide you're to be using, if any, to be honest. it's almost like general population people that aren't going to compete, that aren't into sport, they it as a, ⁓ okay, don't want to take steroids because I don't know enough about it and I ⁓ might but ⁓ I peptides are completely safe. So. Nora: You talked to- Craig: is going to be a multi, multi, multi-billion pound industry if it isn't already, because these peptides that you can inject, they do very specific things ⁓ can be very impactful on fat loss, on so like skin regeneration, managing blood levels. ⁓ There is peptide for pretty much everything. And ⁓ I think key thing is realizing what has a G: Wow. Craig: a noticeable impact and what will only give you small incremental impacts. Because then you know where to put your money. And there's too many people, again, you when we go back to the focusing on the secret and focused on that little minutia versus the low hanging fruit in my lives, can guarantee there'll be motherfuckers that are saying, what do you think to Tessa Morell and CJC? What do you think to this, this and this? G: Yeah. Craig: and I guarantee they don't even know what a fucking protein is. G: Mm. Nora: Yeah. Craig: So they're looking for that little secret injection that's gonna get them lean without doing the other stuff around it. G: Yeah. what point in someone's like, I don't know, bodybuilding journey or fitness journey, would you actually encourage them to start exploring, like this kind of stuff? Craig: But, ⁓ good. Don't. when it comes to things like steroids, I always say people when they come on a consultation call with me, okay, are you doing steroids Yes or no? Cool. If it's a no, I will never that you start. However, it's a conversation that we can have if you want to later on, but I'll never say you have to do steroids. they're already on steroids, I'll just help them do it in the safest way possible ⁓ education and point them in the right direction. Nora: Yeah, because there's so much in the industry as well, where coaches do put people on certain substances without the people even understanding the substances in the first place. You know, and there have been instances in natural competitions where people have been called out for, ⁓ know, taking substances that they shouldn't be taking as a natural bodybuilder because their coach told them it's fine to do so. You know, think G: Yeah it does. Nora: GLP-1s and peptides are part of it, isn't it? Because now natural federations are coming out ⁓ social media saying, if you have taken any of these substances, you cannot compete in our federation. But the thing is they're so available now to people. So people might be taking them without even realizing that if they ever wanted to compete naturally, they're ⁓ not the natural bodybuilder. I don't think people are informed about them. ⁓ mean, you like, you know, I'm the little natural bodybuilder here. Like whenever we have our calls, ⁓ you talk to me about all these things. I'm I have no idea what any of it is. It's so interesting. Craig: Nora is literally in our calls and she is so innocent to all these things. Nora, do you know what hyperprofen is? Nora: I do, yes. ⁓ Craig: Okay, just checking, I'm just checking. Just wondering, just wondering. Nora: feel like this podcast is just making fun of me guys. ⁓ G: No, we love you. I think that's so interesting. And you know, you really your stuff on it, which comes through But you must get some hate on internet about this topic. It's quite controversial. What do you like? How do you handle like the keyboard warriors and the people giving you jib? Craig: your mother jokes. Nora: did see a couple of those on the live. G: What's your best your mum joke? Craig: Your mother jokes. Georgia, give me some grief. G: stop jabbing yourself, you prick. Craig: ⁓ yeah but I was jabbing your mum last night how about you wind the fucking neck Nora: will have to turn on the exclusive content on this podcast because... Craig: This is not gonna get monetized. This will not get monetized at all. G: that is funny. Craig: so you asked me do I deal with it? And I always like just come back because ⁓ I understand that not gonna agree with you. Everyone's got an ego and they think they know best. I'll come back with funny your mom jokes. The only things that really me and these are the things that will always, I'll just block the person. I won't even engage with them ⁓ is if someone talks about my family. G: Hmm. Craig: And if someone starts mentioning my kids, it's some kind of internal primal for that you've never met before. ⁓ And the only point where I just say like, I wanna block you So that's probably the worst things I've ever had. Anything else, ⁓ I've got people who've TikTok accounts saying how old I look. There's three and people just post videos highlighting how old and how did I look. I'm like, ⁓ brilliant. guys, thanks. ⁓ Nora: How do people have the time? That like... What? Craig: are they're in the mum's basements using the mum's underwear to wank off that's why That's their job. G: like, do people do for work? It's just crazy to me that you've got the energy and capacity to make an Instagram page to say that someone else looks old. What the? Nora: Not just all, that's weird. Craig: You know what, what really baffles me is they criticizing me to say that I've got the, oh, you obviously don't have a job. You've got time to be on TikTok. I'm like, mate, just go to fucking company's house, fill your boots. And I feel for these people to a certain extent because they've got nothing else in their life, have they? And they, I honestly think me interacting with them is probably going to be the highlight of their day to a certain extent. And I'll give them a little bit of attention. As soon as they get boring or they start detracting from the live, that's when I even mute them or block them. And trust me, G: Yeah. Nora: I think hate is part of, you know, putting yourself out there, building a social media kind of audience and, being authentic, like we said this in a previous episode as well is like, not everyone's gonna like you if you are truly yourself. And that's fine. It's just proof that you're not trying to blend in and like, you know, almost people please everyone I guess it comes with a lot of positives because you build a fantastic business off the back of it and you've got a great client base that respects you and loves you for who are and how you coach them. I guess there will always come a bit of like a downside to that. G: 100 % because you've got what I've 50, you've got 50,000 followers on TikTok, Craig. Craig: 55, 55G. G: So it's a lot of people that, so there's gonna be some pricks in there for sure. of inevitable with that volume, right? Craig: Yeah. Me nor has this conversation about a few things like ⁓ the more people interact with, it's just a greater possibility that you're going to have pricks. You work with more you're to get more clients not do what to be or more clients try and screw you over in business because for whatever reason, you talk to 100 people, it's just that there'll be some negative stuff there. love this kind of shit as well. Like, you know, traditionally humans only used to talk within their little town, didn't they? They might have 20 connections. ⁓ now we've got connections to millions people. For me a business owner, it's really good. ⁓ But there's definitely people out there and I worry for young coaches, ⁓ whereas they start being authentic in themselves. G: Mm. Craig: they might stop focusing on that negative energy rather than the good bits. G: I think you have to have quite a strong sense of self ⁓ people around you to make sure that you just keep your head screwed on and focus on the business and not let the little comments here and there bring you down. We've seen way too many people just stop posting or ⁓ quit their coaching business because of a comment online or a video not going to plan. And ⁓ just got to get over yourself a little bit and just keep at it because it's never always going to go to plan. Craig: Do you guys think, I mean, you work with a range of people Do you that younger coaches that have predominantly conversations on phone, ⁓ social media ⁓ and do you feel like they're more or less susceptible to that rather that maybe older population of coaches ⁓ that didn't have that interaction at a younger age? more in person banter face to face. G: Great question. what I've seen, ⁓ feel that the younger coaches, so we're talking like under ⁓ I think they have a lot more resistance start conversations with people and they're a lot more like challenging create certain types of like sales content and stuff like that because they're way more worried about what people think. And then the older coaches, so anyone I'd say like, of 50 plus demographic do not give a flying fuck and they will just send it and then actually get really great results from Instagram. Even though you might presume that the younger coach is going to do better because they are younger, fresher, better at content than a 50 plus, ⁓ but the 50 plus is to chat to people, be real, whatever story, even if it's not aesthetic up and actually sell. I've got better results with older coaches and younger coaches because they have less inhibitions. Nora: Yeah. G: but their content looks worse. So you might put them next to each other and say, that's a one K a month business, that's a 10 K a month business. And I'd be like, swap the numbers. Nora: I do agree. because I think a younger coach also has a lot of imposter syndrome when it comes to getting results, cause they don't yet have the experience. So a lot of the things that we hear is, I don't want other coaches to see this content, which is wild to me because other coaches won't buy from them. You know? And, ⁓ but then an older coach who's had the life experience, I would say, to be potentially judged in other situations other than business as well throughout their life is at the point where like, I'm doing this for me now and regardless of the backlash that I might get, or I get other people having ⁓ different to me, I will still do it. I'll do it for me, I'll do it for my family, there will always be downsides, but think they're less affected by ⁓ that. ⁓ as much as a younger coach would. Craig: Do you think younger coaches enjoy producing content? Because I fucking love it. I have a right laugh. Like when I go into the gym and I've got a list of stuff and I'm just ripping it and just taking the piss out of anyone, everyone, including myself, I just fucking laugh to myself. I just enjoy putting it out there. Do you think people truly enjoy making content or do you think they enjoy the byproduct? of what that will do, potentially. G: I think it depends on the character of the person. I think some people hate it and they're not comfortable like setting up a tripod, talking, you know, anything. And in those cases, like they have to either learn to like it and enjoy it or accept that building an online business just isn't going to be viable because if you aren't willing to create content and look like, you know, put yourself out there, then you just, it's just going to be such an uphill battle to get any clients. I think confidence is important for sure. I don't know if that's even an age thing. I think it is just like a character personality thing. What about you, Nora: Yeah, I would say they find it easier to create content in terms of coaches grew up an environment where social media was always a thing. Whereas I think older coaches, the resistance from them creating content more comes from like, not knowing how to do that. ⁓ the coaches have grown up in an environment where almost like a TikTok and Instagram was always there. like ⁓ editing a bit more naturally because they were always, iPhones always existed in their world. But then an older coach had learn and I think had to develop as technology evolved across the years because it evolved like rapidly. So the catching up that an older coach had to do ⁓ to, be comfortable with that. I think it's just two different problems. And I think you get people that overcome that imposter syndrome, that younger coaches face and shine on social media. But it's just that mindset that they have to overcome to be good at content. Because I think they have the opportunity that they grew up in social media to know how to do it. But it's just, yeah, the mindset that's stopping them more than anything. G: Yeah. Craig, thank you so much for all your time and all your wisdom and stories and sharing with us. I think it's been amazing to get to know you a bit more, hear about your journey. You've done so much in such a short space of time. You're only what, 30? Nora: Love it. Craig: Cool. Fuck off, you're a liar. You know, right? Firstly, you're a piece of shit, Georgia, right? That is bullshit, okay? To fraudulently think that I'm 30 is just taking the piss. So thank you very much for that. I'm 39. I'm 39 and yes. ⁓ ⁓ know I look 49. Let's not take the piss. Nora: No, I mean, I'm not the one who made a TikTok account about your age, Craig. Craig: This is true. This is true. Yeah. Three. Three. Nora: you G: ⁓ To close then one just last question for you to end on Craig, if someone is listening and wants to build a successful business like yours, what's the one takeaway or thing that they should focus on first? Craig: I'm going to give you two things, I think you've got to do something that you love. Sounds like such a cliche, but if you don't love it, you're not going to get up at five o'clock in the morning to fucking do the thing. You're going to click snooze and away you go. You're just going to sleep through and never progress. and just be prepared to... not love it because you have to work so hard to make it a go. It's that delayed gratification. There are going to be points where you don't love it because you've been up at five o'clock every morning for the last 365 days. it's that work that allows you to reap the rewards ⁓ on. Maybe take a step back or ⁓ a fucking idiot like me and keep adding things to your plate. Nora: I love that. know how much respect I have for you as a person, but also a businessman. I think it's been, yeah, it's been a great chat, Craig. So I appreciate you joining us. Craig: I'm really surprised that I got invited because I thought this was a whole little girl power thing that you had going on. I was like, oh, am I in the little girl gang now? This is amazing. G: awesome. Nora: No. Yeah. G: Yeah, yeah you are. ⁓ No, we're but it's not like a gals only club. ⁓ Nora: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Craig: Can I come out for like brunch and we'll have mimosas? ⁓ G: ⁓ Yeah, well, we're in prep at the moment. it will be diet coke. ⁓ Nora: Wait, when do you finish your shows, Craig, this year? Craig: it should be November oh what we'll do is we'll do a Christmas little get together in London town. Nora: love that we'll both be off prep then as well so there we go. Craig: We will. G: Love it. Do you like karaoke, Craig? Craig: I love karaoke? G: Yeah. Craig: Yeah, there's a bare shit in the woods. G: ⁓ my god, do you? ⁓ what, just what shit in the words? The Pope? Nora: you Craig: There's a bit of shit in the woods. Nora: You Craig: yes. G: I guess so. what's your favourite karaoke song before we leave? Craig: go-to is ⁓ Williams, ⁓ when you're winning. G: I love a bit of Robbie. I always start with Gloria Gaynor, I Will Survive. And then normally my second one Poison by Alice Cooper. Craig: I'm going to throw a massive assumption out there and please don't hate me. ⁓ I can't see you for a second being good at karaoke. G: That's where I go. She's gonna hate that. Nora: Georgia answer that. Craig: If. G: Nora likes Justin Bieber. Nora: And I actually got a decent voice, thank you very much. my choice is Adele, Chasing Pavements, and second one is Justin Bieber, yes. G: we do love a karaoke booth, we do. Yeah, ⁓ amazing, exciting. I'm already looking forward to it. Nora: ⁓ Thank you, Craig, for being our first podcast guest. This was fun.