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Leading The Sales Rebellion with Dale Dupree · We Built This Brand

• 0:00
  A lot of people saw the track like, Hey, if I do these things, X, Y,
• 0:03
  Z, line up A, B, C, do my thousand calls a week, blah, blah, blah.
• 0:07
  I'll make success and eventually I'll be the manager and then
• 0:10
  maybe I'll get a shot at equity.
• 0:12
  Right?
• 0:12
  And I was just kind of like, I don't care about any of that.
• 0:14
  I want to do what I love.
• 0:16
  Welcome to We Built This Brand, where we talk to the creators and
• 0:19
  collaborators behind your favorite brands.
• 0:22
  Today, I’m talking with The Copier Warrior himself, Dale Dupree.
• 0:25
  Dale’s the Founder and leader of The Sales Rebellion, and his unique
• 0:30
  approach to sales and marketing inspires New Hope for the industry.
• 0:34
  This is a guy who cut his teeth in a Metalcore band and now channels that
• 0:38
  DIY attitude into changing the game.
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  Are you ready to and take down the established Empire of sales?
• 0:43
  Then suit up!
• 0:44
  Here’s my conversation with Dale Dupree.”
• 0:51
  Welcome to We Built This Brand.
• 0:52
  Thanks, man.
• 0:53
  We're just diving in.
• 0:54
  Excited to be here.
• 0:55
  Yeah, I'm happy to have you.
• 0:56
  Thank you for your patience as we've been getting set up and everything.
• 1:00
  Good.
• 1:00
  It's a lot of fun to have you.
• 1:01
  So excited to talk to you today.
• 1:03
  You know, a lot of who we've been talking to recently have been agencies,
• 1:06
  like marketing agencies, PR agencies, folks like that, and always love being
• 1:10
  able to talk to someone who runs what I would call, like, "a true brand," a
• 1:13
  business that is not just representing other people, but you're actually doing
• 1:16
  something, creating something unique in the marketplace, and I think what you're
• 1:21
  doing with Sales Rebellion's really cool.
• 1:22
  So happy to dive into that with you today.
• 1:26
  Would love to start, as we always do, with a little bit of your background,
• 1:29
  and if you don't know who Dale Dupree is, there's a lot of places you can learn
• 1:33
  about your story, and would love to hear just your Reader's Digest version, because
• 1:39
  I know you, we've talked about it a bunch.
• 1:41
  Everywhere I look you up, it's like, alright, your background, and 30 minutes
• 1:44
  in, we finally get into some meat.
• 1:45
  So I'd like to kinda bypass that today and dive more into where you're at with
• 1:50
  Sales Rebellion and everything else.
• 1:52
  So, I'll let you take it away.
• 1:53
  Thanks.
• 1:54
  It's easier this way too for me, 'cause it typically, when I do those podcasts that
• 1:59
  you're talking about, people say, they go, "Tell us a little bit about yourself,"
• 2:02
  and then they hear like four things and they go, "Yo, you gotta talk more about
• 2:05
  that," and then all of a sudden we're 30 minutes in, and we haven't talked.
• 2:08
  But, Dale Dupree, my friends, they call me the Copier Warrior.
• 2:13
  Now, to ultimately understand where I come from.
• 2:15
  You gotta go back a little bit further real quick.
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  In 1984, my father broke away from the status quo of sales selling copy
• 2:22
  machines for the corporate monster, doing awesome, number one rep in
• 2:27
  line to take over the business.
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  He left all that safety, all that security, everything that he
• 2:32
  had built because he just didn't like the way they did business.
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  Had nothing to do with what he was making or ultimately like being
• 2:37
  an entrepreneur even, he didn't like how they treated people.
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  He didn't like how they ran their operation, and he wanted more,
• 2:44
  not just for himself, but for his customers and his client base.
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  He felt like he could get that too.
• 2:48
  So he said, you know, by the grace of God, I'm gonna go build something.
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  And by the way too, just to like mention it, although my father eventually
• 2:55
  became a born again Christian at that point, and when I say by the grace of
• 2:58
  God, my dad was like an atheist, right?
• 3:02
  So he just leap of faith, like literally on himself in that moment said, this
• 3:06
  is something that I need to do, and I shouldn't call him an atheist.
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  He grew up in a Christian household.
• 3:09
  Sure.
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  He did not know who God was and didn't really care at all, right?
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  But the year after 1984 is my birth year, 1985, and people
• 3:18
  joke with me all the time.
• 3:19
  They say, "Dude, Dale was born with toner running through his veins," okay?
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  So, 'cause here's my dad's 10 years into the copier industry
• 3:27
  from an injury, a football injury.
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  He broke his neck.
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  It kept him from getting into the NFL basically, and instead
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  he was like, what am I gonna do?
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  And he sold paper like Dwight Schrute, and that led to copiers, and then all of
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  a sudden he is opening his own business.
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  So it's my legend, right?
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  It's my legacy.
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  And so I spent years from a child to an adult teen wandering the
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  halls of my father's business.
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  Letting that toner really sink into those veins and into my bloodstream.
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  I learned the industry without ever really trying to learn the industry, if
• 4:02
  you will, and what I really learned is I learned how to become a servant leader.
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  I learned how to give experiences.
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  I learned how to be a man that didn't need recognition.
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  That's what I learned, and I learned all those things from my father in a nutshell.
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  There's a lot more that I learned on top of that, but like how to now lose
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  money when you're selling stuff, and you know, lots of other things, right?
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  But ultimately that shaped me.
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  It gave me an imagination, and my father was, he was always very
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  entrepreneurial to say, "Yo Dale, I want you to do what you love. I don't
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  want you to do what you think is gonna make you a lot of money," and whatnot.
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  So with that same motivation, I took it, and I actually ended up skipping
• 4:38
  college and touring in a band on Warner Bros. Records eventually.
• 4:43
  That's awesome.
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  I mean, we started on Pluto.
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  Sure.
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  Indie label.
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  My boy Brian, shout out to Brian if you're listening to this, influential
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  entrepreneur in my life as well for sure.
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  You meet people along the way that have such a huge impact on you, and they
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  never even know in the first place, but yeah, that man helped me and guided me
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  and got me into Sony distribution and Warner Bros. Records distribution, and you
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  know, we had people buying our stuff in Tokyo, you know, and our albums, right?
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  And so for me, like, I could see I had this vision, right?
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  But then I saw it come to life, and it was never the glitz and glamor that
• 5:19
  people say it is at the end of the day.
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  'cause we weren't the Rolling Stones.
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  That's how you have to, that's the only way to make money in the music
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  industry, is sell your soul and become a 50, you know, year band, right?
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  But I digress.
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  The passion was why we did it, the love is why we did it, and eventually,
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  those things brought me back to the copier world, and I would say
• 5:39
  that there was some instances and circumstances that put me there, but,
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  you have to really understand that I started in this place of creativity.
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  I started in this place of entertainment.
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  I started in this place that I loved That I wanted, that I
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  dreamed of becoming, if you will.
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  I even turned down somewhere in the ballpark of a dozen scholarships, some
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  partial, some full rides, all of, most of them, there was only two academic ones,
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  but most of them are sports related.
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  So here I'm an athlete, but I play in a metal band, and I'm like the weirdest
• 6:08
  kid you've ever met, right, at the time.
• 6:10
  Just imagine, long haired dude, dunking on you, and then moshing,
• 6:15
  you know, later that night, right?
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  Yeah.
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  Like it was, I was a very unique person, right?
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  So, and I, hopefully, I still am to some capacity, but got back into copier sales,
• 6:23
  spent 13 years doing it, and that's where I created the moniker, The Copier
• 6:29
  Warrior, and I built my reputation on the back of serving leadership principles,
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  and ultimately on the back of a ton of failure, a ton of risk, which led to a
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  lot of reward at the end of the day that I don't think a lot of people of my age
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  would've ever really even thought about, especially in the industry I was in.
• 6:46
  I think a lot of people saw the track that were in my industry, like, "Hey,
• 6:50
  if I do these things, X, Y, Z, line up A, B, C, do my thousand calls a week,
• 6:55
  blah, blah, blah. I'll make success and eventually I'll be the manager
• 6:59
  and then maybe I'll get a shot at equity, right?" And I was just kind of
• 7:02
  like, I don't care about any of that.
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  I want to do what I love.
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  I kept going back to that.
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  I wanna make people feel seen and heard, and not because I have to do that, but
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  because they deserve that, and that ultimately I'll build a community similar
• 7:15
  to the one that my father did for himself.
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  Eventually that led to me leaving, we were talking about the corporate world
• 7:21
  a little while ago, like, it led to me leaving corporate, knowing that in my
• 7:26
  heart, more so than anywhere else, it wasn't a place for me, and that there
• 7:30
  was no way I was going to change it.
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  That's impossible, but instead I said, yeah, but I can go and start a
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  movement, and I can win the hearts and minds of people that feel the same way
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  that I do, that want to be more than just a salesperson, that desire more
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  for their life than just transactions that want to experience it, that want
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  to breathe life into something that's dead and stale, and badabing bada boom,
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  2019, launched The Sales Rebellion.
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  Had no idea what I was doing, still don't really understand what I'm doing, but
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  I'm six years in, and I haven't taken a paycheck from anybody else but myself.
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  Yeah.
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  And man, even if it crashes and burns tomorrow, and I'm done with
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  it, what a ride it's been for sure.
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  So.
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  That's exciting.
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  That's really cool, and I know there's a lot more to that on all fronts.
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  One of the things that I think is really interesting is how
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  you've kind of kept this creative element going this whole time.
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  Like, there's been
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  kind of this pattern of, you know, you wanted to do music, you wanted to do
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  something artistic, then you got into sales, which can be very structured
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  and very formal, and you found a way to make it really creative and really
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  unique, and dare I say, a little metal, I found as I was looking back.
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  I was checking some stuff out last night and I came across
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  your band, and, Imperial.
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  Is that right?
• 8:47
  That's it.
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  Yeah, and very metal, and that is the genre that you would consider, right?
• 8:53
  I just wanna make sure you went like, oh, it's actually
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  this mad sub genre, Gothcore.
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  I don't know.
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  I'm just kidding, but you know what I'm getting at, but very metal.
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  And then I went and checked out your video that you have for The Copier
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  Warrior, which was really fun.
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  Yeah.
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  And it had just so many elements of it.
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  I was like, "Okay, this guy hasn't left his roots." Like, he's still got
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  some of it with him as he is traveling.
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  Yeah.
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  And then where you are now, even within, you know, The Sales Rebellion
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  and things, there's a lot of creative elements there that are very unique.
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  So it's cool to see you being true to yourself as part of the process, too.
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  And so with that, we get into starting this rebellion, this sales rebellion.
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  Tell me how did you come up with that idea?
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  I mean, you left, you got burned out and you started, wanted to start something,
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  but where did you go from there?
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  Know I'm such a nerd.
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  In the beginning when I started to look at this idea of leaving the corporate
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  landscape, and let me just say too, that I didn't suffer from burnout in
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  the corporate landscape, or even in the private business side of things, too.
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  I mean, I did a lot, I worked really hard.
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  I preach the idea of not doing that as much because of my experiences
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  and the things I learned, and there was also a balance there.
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  I hate to call it that, but really what there was, there was a rebellion there.
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  So in my, and like to just give a little context to that, in 2013, I made the
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  first year that I made six figures, basically like 2012 was the year my
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  father sold his business, and by the way, I started in 2008 as well too.
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  It was late 2007, so I was picking the copy machines up from the companies
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  that you're talking about going like, "Yeah, we're outta business now," and
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  they were shredded files everywhere.
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  I mean, Severance, the TV show like we were talking about.
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  I mean, it was like war zone stuff, dude that we were experiencing.
• 10:51
  Oh man.
• 10:51
  So this is like my introduction to the B2B space, right?
• 10:54
  Well, this is a great place.
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  Like, no, I felt terrible about the B2B space and thought, well, this
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  sucks, and why I'm gonna go work at a fast food restaurant and at least know
• 11:04
  that I'm gonna make a paycheck and then like do something else, right?
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  That I had that temptation many times, but, you know, ultimately I came back to
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  this space for myself in my upbringing of business that stayed the course.
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  And by 2012, 2013, right, I, my dad's business sells, I go over
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  to the new company through the acquisition, and I'll tell you
• 11:27
  right now that I was ready for that.
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  I was so fired up for that, dude.
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  Four years of basically rebuilding a business, and you know, hitting a
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  million dollars in there selling, for any of my copier homies listening,
• 11:39
  used equipment and hitting a million dollars, which I think a lot of people
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  respect that thing more than anything.
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  So, 'cause if a machine costs $15,000, brand new.
• 11:49
  Yeah.
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  Used, it costs $2,000, dude.
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  Right.
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  That's the literal cost, right?
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  That's a lot of volume.
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  It is a lot of copy machines, dude.
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  I mean, I think one year I was over 110 total accounts, like, with
• 12:00
  my father and net new business.
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  The average in the copier space at the time especially, was like 12 to 15.
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  Right.
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  Maxim right?
• 12:07
  Yeah.
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  So, I 10Xed, if you will, shout out to Uncle G or whoever.
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  Grant Cardone, isn't that his name?
• 12:13
  Maybe, yeah.
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  10X or whatever the hell.
• 12:15
  Let's call it 11X.
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  I 11Xed it.
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  I went one step further than Uncle G. Anyway, so the idea
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  though, was that, like, I took that to the corporate landscape.
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  I never lost myself in the process.
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  People tried to get me to lose myself, for sure.
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  "Hey, man, you need to be at your desk more often." Yeah, right, dude.
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  No, I'm in the field.
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  I'm a salesperson, right?
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  So when I looked at this idea of starting a rebellion, it was really just looking
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  at all the things that I had already rebelled against in the first place.
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  From being like slapped on the hand and saying, "Hey man, this is
• 12:50
  the marketing you're passing out?
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  You stabbing copy machines in the middle of the woods?
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  Like, this isn't acceptable.
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  Like, at least you have clothes on, but this is strange.
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  We don't like this," to that same group of leaders coming back to me
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  and going, "Do whatever you want.
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  I'll never forget the first email that ever went out from my second
• 13:13
  generation of leaders.
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  Shoutout to Rich Johnson, by the way.
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  If he's listening, he was one of the good ones, but in that second
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  generation of leaders, I got Steve Clap.
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  Love this man.
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  He is such an incredible guy, but he sent an email out after the first
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  year, and he said, "and the words of Rocky Balboa," and it wasn't Rocky.
• 13:27
  It was somebody in like Rocky B that was like, "he's not human," and that fired
• 13:32
  me up so much to hear a person that knew Jack about one year of my life,
• 13:37
  to see what I was capable of, and to tell me that, it was so exhilarating.
• 13:44
  It was so, just in general, it was powerful from a motivational standpoint
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  for my life, not just my business walk, and I took that fire and I turned it
• 13:53
  into six figures that next year for the first time in my life, right?
• 13:57
  Because I had to not take a paycheck, man.
• 13:59
  Like you remember 2008, right?
• 14:01
  Yeah.
• 14:01
  Imagine running a small business with your dad, basically, and you're
• 14:05
  like the only ones left that aren't getting paid at one point because
• 14:08
  you're trying to keep the employees on.
• 14:09
  You're paying them.
• 14:10
  Yeah.
• 14:10
  Yeah.
• 14:10
  It was a wild ride, dude.
• 14:12
  So when I hit those milestones for myself, I think the number one thing I realized
• 14:17
  was that it wasn't better than the four years that I had spent leading up to this.
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  Like, I hadn't suddenly, like, changed my life.
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  Like, I was already changing my life four years ago by making the decision.
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  The journey became something that I started to romanticize.
• 14:32
  Mm.
• 14:32
  And so then I started thinking, well, if I can make my first year, I made
• 14:35
  $180,000 when I made six figures.
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  So it wasn't like a $101,000.
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  It was like BAM.
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  Like from $65,000, that was the most I ever made, to $180,000.
• 14:43
  That's awesome.
• 14:44
  It was a crazy jump, right?
• 14:45
  And from, and that was 2012, 2013, right?
• 14:48
  So from there it was insane what happened to me.
• 14:52
  And so when I looked at starting a movement around money, that
• 14:57
  was never the motivation.
• 15:00
  Starting a movement around loving what you do and achieving ultimate
• 15:04
  freedom from those things?
• 15:05
  That was the motivation.
• 15:07
  And so it had nothing really, ultimately, to do with burnout or being sick and tired
• 15:11
  of stuff or, you know, my corporate job, definitely, they brought me back to work
• 15:15
  way faster than they should have when my baby was born, and they cited, "Well, you
• 15:20
  know, you haven't actually earned, you're two months shy of your tenure here to earn
• 15:24
  those extra weeks. So, sorry about that."
• 15:27
  Yeah.
• 15:27
  Like, things like that really just set me off, and then words that were
• 15:31
  expressed to me by my leaders, and I mean, I've never, I don't know if I
• 15:36
  can even say it on this podcast, but.
• 15:38
  You can say it, and we can take it out later.
• 15:40
  Oh, I've never heard the term in a meeting with the HR person present, and all the
• 15:45
  leadership of the organization, the word ****sucker used, pointed at an individual.
• 15:51
  Good Lord.
• 15:52
  Never heard that.
• 15:53
  Wow.
• 15:54
  I've heard it in a fist fight, but like never in a boardroom setting.
• 15:59
  Like, whoa, buddy, this is intense.
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  And really, I realized that I was in a place that when people were powerful
• 16:05
  enough, they could get away with anything.
• 16:06
  Mm.
• 16:07
  So it, again, it had nothing to do with like, "Man, I'm sick of
• 16:10
  this," and it had everything to do with, "Man, wouldn't it be nice if
• 16:14
  we changed the way this worked?"
• 16:16
  Mm.
• 16:16
  And and even if we didn't change the way these people worked,
• 16:19
  that we built our own thing.
• 16:20
  Yeah.
• 16:20
  And we did it ourselves.
• 16:21
  Yeah.
• 16:22
  And we ignored all this crap and all these rules and all this stupidity.
• 16:25
  And we did the things that I was able to do to make myself a millionaire,
• 16:28
  make other people millionaires, and ultimately gain financial freedom that
• 16:31
  led to ultimate freedom in my life.
• 16:33
  So yeah, that's a real, I took like some left turns, some right turns in there, but
• 16:37
  hopefully that hits your, your question.
• 16:39
  No, no, no.
• 16:39
  It's good because, like, you're showing kind of the rebellious stage of it, but it
• 16:44
  was really about a rebellion for something better, and, like, for me, like, in just
• 16:50
  thinking about my own career, that was a lot of what I experienced too, of like,
• 16:53
  oh, people are getting away with stuff they shouldn't be getting away with.
• 16:55
  And, you know, I was told at one point in my sales career to lie to a customer.
• 17:00
  Boldface lie to a customer.
• 17:02
  Now, how do you think my sales career went after I told my
• 17:04
  boss, "No?" Did not go well.
• 17:06
  Yeah.
• 17:07
  And so, like, that became the tension and the ultimate impetus for me moving
• 17:11
  on and leaving sales entirely for, well, I thought I was leaving it.
• 17:15
  I didn't really, but I thought I was leaving it for a while and,
• 17:21
  yeah, I didn't wanna be around that.
• 17:23
  I didn't wanna be around an environment that encouraged that
• 17:25
  and thought of that as the winner.
• 17:26
  Right.
• 17:27
  And those people as the good people, so I can totally relate to that, and yeah,
• 17:31
  that call to something better, I think salespeople need to hear that because it
• 17:35
  can often be a very toxic environment.
• 17:37
  So tell me a little bit more.
• 17:39
  So you get this name, Rebellion, where else does, I feel like there's
• 17:43
  something else with Rebellion too.
• 17:44
  It feels very Star Wars-y.
• 17:46
  Yeah.
• 17:46
  I've noticed some Star Wars themes to what you do.
• 17:48
  Yeah.
• 17:49
  Is there's some elements there?
• 17:50
  Yeah.
• 17:50
  Imperial, The Sales Rebellion.
• 17:52
  Yeah.
• 17:53
  Yeah.
• 17:53
  It really was easy for me to decide to call this a, "rebellion," and
• 17:59
  then it felt like everybody wanted to use the word after I used it.
• 18:03
  So it's almost as if like everybody was thinking about it, and I was
• 18:06
  the first person to just like, dare mighty things and say like, I don't
• 18:09
  care if I'm in a corporate landscape.
• 18:11
  I'm gonna call this what I wanna call it.
• 18:12
  And yeah, it, 1,000%, I'm a rebel dude.
• 18:15
  Like, I'm a rebel scum, bro.
• 18:17
  I'm a big fan of Luke Skywalker, his story, I know it's not real and it's
• 18:23
  fictional, ladies and gentlemen, but I just love this idea of like
• 18:27
  the farm boy who knows nothing but his parents upbringing, who are
• 18:31
  not even his parents, by the way.
• 18:33
  Gosh.
• 18:33
  Spoilers, spoilers, by the way, Darth Vader and Luke.
• 18:37
  There's something, there's something happening in there that maybe.
• 18:40
  Maybe I shouldn't talk about it anyway, but yeah, we don't wanna spoil it.
• 18:42
  But like his erraticness, his, you know, just his energy, his excitement to go
• 18:48
  to war, you know, against the empire and to fight back, and man there that,
• 18:52
  I was inspired by that, and my mother was the big push and those things.
• 18:56
  She loved Star Wars too for the storytelling and the sci-fi, and
• 19:01
  it was like one of her first movies that she ever saw in the theaters.
• 19:05
  And, you know, because that was like a big deal at that point in history in the '70s,
• 19:09
  and like, you know, my mom was primed.
• 19:11
  She was like in college and it was like perfect timing for someone like her to be
• 19:16
  immersed into those stories, and she's a pretty straight-laced woman to be quite
• 19:18
  frank with you, but she's fun, she's quirky, she's got a big imagination.
• 19:23
  And sometimes I wonder if ultimately I get my imagination from my mom,
• 19:27
  and she's just never really said that, you know, in the first place.
• 19:29
  But because of that, I operate in nostalgia dude, and I believe
• 19:35
  that most people do as well.
• 19:36
  I believe that when I get a marketing piece, or I field a sales call that if
• 19:41
  there's some type of experiential moment there that leads toward curiosity, toward
• 19:46
  nostalgia, toward the idea of even like taking a little bit of a risk, like some
• 19:52
  adventure, if you will, that people will respond better, more efficiently, and
• 19:57
  different, and, like, different is what all of us need from people in responses,
• 20:02
  because otherwise it's just the status quo and otherwise, like, we're just noise.
• 20:07
  So when I thought of, you know, like how do I name a corporate brand, it
• 20:10
  made so much sense for me to just go back to the things that drive me that
• 20:14
  I'm passionate about, that I love, like a sci-fi thriller called Star Wars
• 20:19
  that kids, which is even crazy, right?
• 20:22
  That kids, you know, around us coming up in a whole new generation think that The
• 20:27
  Acolyte is Star Wars, and I'm like, no bro, it's The Return of the Jedi, dude.
• 20:32
  That's Star Wars, right?
• 20:33
  But anyway, the goal was really also to think about what is
• 20:37
  the evolution of the buyer?
• 20:38
  So if I call my company "Deal to Pre-sales Training" or something
• 20:42
  more corporate, well in about 10 years, who am I selling to?
• 20:47
  Well, I'm selling to kids, man.
• 20:48
  I'm selling to the next generation, 65% of decision makers, even with
• 20:52
  the groups that we support in the B2B space, from solar, to copiers, to
• 20:57
  IT, to the financial side of things.
• 20:59
  Like you name it, like FinTech, SaaS, they sell to people that are
• 21:03
  between the ages of 25 and 45, dude.
• 21:06
  That's the majority of buyers now.
• 21:08
  So if, again, like in my mind, just like you have looked at my brand
• 21:13
  and said, "this is cool, this is fun," like, that's the point is to
• 21:16
  let people know that like, hey, like stretch your legs a little bit, man.
• 21:19
  Like, unbutton the top button.
• 21:21
  Take your tie off even like.
• 21:22
  Be yourself.
• 21:23
  Be authentic.
• 21:24
  It's okay.
• 21:25
  it's fine.
• 21:26
  Yeah.
• 21:26
  And you bring up a good point with like who you're marketing towards too.
• 21:30
  Like that positioning is saying, "Hey, we're here for the people who
• 21:34
  see this, get this, understand it, which is gonna attract a certain
• 21:37
  type of person to you," right?
• 21:39
  Which is really helpful for you as well.
• 21:41
  But also with that positioning, you know, I tend to forget about it, but as you're
• 21:45
  saying it, I'm like, let me think about all the sales training I've ever been in.
• 21:49
  Oh yeah.
• 21:49
  There was SOCS at AT&T.
• 21:52
  The Science of Consultative Selling.
• 21:53
  Yes, and it was a whole formulaic thing.
• 21:57
  I even had to get SOCS sales certified, which included like sales tests
• 22:02
  and role plays and all this stuff.
• 22:04
  I did Northwestern Mutual at one point in my career.
• 22:07
  Like, that was actually my first experience was insurance sales
• 22:11
  with Northwestern Mutual, in a market where I didn't have family
• 22:14
  too, which was really tough.
• 22:15
  And so like, it was, you know, I've, I've been through all that, and then
• 22:19
  I've also dealt a little bit with like Sandler Sales, and the one constant theme
• 22:23
  through all these is they are boring.
• 22:25
  They are not fun.
• 22:27
  It makes sales out to be just a science and a numbers game, which it can very
• 22:31
  well be, and very much is at times, but it's very much just this boring process,
• 22:36
  and you're breathing new life into it.
• 22:38
  And I think that's what I find really interesting about it.
• 22:40
  Word.
• 22:41
  I like the concept too of, so I feed off of the old to create
• 22:49
  what I have put together.
• 22:50
  So, I like going back to the Zig Ziglars and, like, learning about what they
• 22:55
  were trying to relay, or the David Sandlers, and then seeing, finding
• 23:00
  the gaps first, and then also like understanding their science, if you will.
• 23:06
  Because the way that that helps me to break it down is I get to say, okay, cool.
• 23:10
  So, in all science it becomes predictable is the thought process.
• 23:15
  Well, humans are not predictable, so if I boil everything down to a science, you
• 23:21
  know, and I'm Sandler Sales Training, it's gonna definitely work throughout
• 23:24
  the '80s and the '90s and maybe even some of the early 2000s, but over
• 23:28
  time, like, people are gonna start to understand what you're doing to them.
• 23:32
  That science, that predictability of that science with an unpredictable
• 23:36
  environment, they don't mesh, and so at a certain point you lose it.
• 23:41
  And so here we go with the whole, like, this is anybody listening,
• 23:45
  this is the literal purpose, let's just say, of The Sales Rebellion.
• 23:51
  The purpose of The Sales Rebellion is to meet people where they are, not to
• 23:54
  force something into their ecosystem.
• 23:59
  Science forces stuff into your ecosystem.
• 24:01
  It says, "Well, now what's important is your ROI." We all wanna make
• 24:06
  money off something in the business environment, but that's not the
• 24:09
  most, what's actually important is what I'm doing with that money.
• 24:13
  My people that I'm hiring, how I'm supporting their families.
• 24:16
  My customers and their happiness.
• 24:19
  Not just because I had a good product, but because I treated them like normal,
• 24:22
  rational, intelligent human beings.
• 24:25
  Right.
• 24:25
  And that I respected the emotional side of things as well, too.
• 24:30
  Groups like Sandler, the Challenger, so they don't respect the emotions of people.
• 24:35
  They don't care about how you feel.
• 24:38
  They need you to meet them where they are.
• 24:40
  That's what their systems are all designed to do, and mad respect for,
• 24:44
  you know, the old guard and the people that have built what they've built,
• 24:47
  but they live in a fantasy world now.
• 24:50
  They live in a fantasy world.
• 24:51
  They put out books, like, right literally at the peak of COVID saying, "Oh, I'm
• 24:58
  an expert now in selling on Zoom. Here's my book." Like these are the companies.
• 25:03
  This is who they are.
• 25:04
  There's no integrity in that.
• 25:06
  Four weeks of selling on Zoom, and you're an expert.
• 25:09
  I mean, GTFO, bro.
• 25:12
  Like, that to me is absolute garbage and totally nuts.
• 25:16
  And ultimately too, like selling, expertise of selling doesn't
• 25:20
  come from sales experts, dude.
• 25:21
  It comes through the way we experience the buying market and the way that
• 25:25
  we buy ourselves just the same because we're buyers too, right,
• 25:29
  ultimately, at the end of the day.
• 25:30
  So really, like, the science of sales, the numbers of sales, those
• 25:35
  are mythology, in my opinion.
• 25:36
  The art of sales is the only thing that is a constant that will always
• 25:41
  for generations to come until every, until you and I are robots, right,
• 25:46
  doing this interview, which no one will watch at that point anyway.
• 25:49
  I mean, just robots watching robots talking to robots.
• 25:51
  Well, it's part of why we're here in person.
• 25:53
  Right?
• 25:53
  Exactly.
• 25:54
  Yeah.
• 25:54
  Real, living flesh.
• 25:54
  This
• 25:54
  is the rebellion, bro.
• 25:56
  You're leading one in the podcast space, right?
• 25:57
  That's right.
• 25:58
  That's right.
• 25:58
  So, but yeah, that the point being though that like emotion, the human experience,
• 26:04
  that is the thing that's always consistent within sales and marketing, and that's
• 26:08
  why people that look beyond what is corporate, what is acceptable in the
• 26:16
  business what is even appropriate in the business box, those people fail.
• 26:24
  Yeah.
• 26:24
  Constantly.
• 26:25
  Like, I want you so lit up that you're angry with me.
• 26:27
  Because when I call you and I go, "Hey, this is Dale, the guy that sent
• 26:30
  you that thing that made you angry," and you're like, "I hated that."
• 26:33
  And I go, "Yeah, but like, you remembered me. For the first time
• 26:37
  you remembered a salesperson."
• 26:38
  Yeah.
• 26:39
  "Okay. I can see that." And then when you understand the context of like, why
• 26:43
  I sent you what I sent you in the mail to have this experience and you give it
• 26:46
  a couple days, you're a $400,000 sale.
• 26:50
  And not because I like did some weird science on you, but because I met you
• 26:54
  where you were, and you didn't even know it at the time, but because I understand
• 26:58
  you, and I made the effort to do those things right, it might feel cold, but
• 27:02
  man, the internet, AI, when you use it right, powerful places in order
• 27:06
  to, like, for me to learn about Chris.
• 27:07
  Yeah.
• 27:08
  Knows just like you, we're going out and checking Imperial out
• 27:10
  before we got together, right?
• 27:11
  Like, you would've never known that without the option of being able to go
• 27:14
  and do that research in the first place.
• 27:15
  Right.
• 27:16
  And that's, I believe that selling, it's not about, I'm not a big
• 27:18
  personalized everything kind of guy.
• 27:20
  I'm just like a, I'm rational about that.
• 27:22
  Man, if you just like mention one thing that's important to
• 27:25
  me, I'm gonna listen differently.
• 27:27
  I'm gonna trust you differently.
• 27:28
  There's more credibility here.
• 27:29
  So.
• 27:29
  Yeah.
• 27:30
  There's a rant for you.
• 27:31
  I like it though.
• 27:31
  I mean, finding that human connection with people, is something, and
• 27:35
  even human emotion is something we're learning as we've interviewed
• 27:38
  other folks for this podcast.
• 27:40
  Like, it's a big thing to find that human element to a sale, to a purchase.
• 27:49
  Impulse buying is becoming more and more common right now with the
• 27:52
  way the Internet's going and things like that, and a lot of that's
• 27:55
  driven by people that are bored, that are tired, that are interested.
• 27:58
  It just gets you, just right time, right place.
• 28:01
  You're always looking at your phone, so why not throw an ad up there for
• 28:04
  something that looks mildly intriguing and dirt cheap, or claims to be dirt cheap.
• 28:09
  If you spend any time on TikTok, you know what I'm talking about?
• 28:13
  It's just they're crappy products, but you get 'em.
• 28:16
  'cause it's like, ah, well you know what?
• 28:18
  It's only $20.
• 28:20
  If it doesn't work, I can throw it away.
• 28:22
  You know?
• 28:22
  Yeah.
• 28:22
  And it's sad that we're at that point in the economy, but like, you know,
• 28:27
  but that's just that human element, and even as you get into sales, like,
• 28:31
  yeah, if you can't interact with people in a way that grabs their attention,
• 28:35
  like, you're just wasting your breath.
• 28:38
  So how do you get people to respond for those that may not know much
• 28:44
  about The Sales Rebellion, like, what is your, what are kind of the core
• 28:48
  things that you do to help people?
• 28:51
  And then specifically, like, what kind of, like, I don't wanna say
• 28:54
  products 'cause I don't know that that's the right way to put it.
• 28:56
  It might be, but what are the things that you all offer to help people with
• 29:01
  this sales process to think differently?
• 29:04
  It's a great question, and you did.
• 29:05
  You put it all the right way.
• 29:07
  Yeah.
• 29:08
  We believe in layman's terms.
• 29:10
  So you call it a product, if I call it something different,
• 29:12
  you're not gonna know what it is.
• 29:14
  Right.
• 29:15
  We're always about meeting people in those spaces, and so ultimately
• 29:19
  though, like, what we do is we create differentiation when you find it.
• 29:22
  So if you see that The Rebellion has curriculum, but so does Sandler,
• 29:28
  most likely you're gonna be drawn over here to this Sales Rebellion
• 29:32
  thing, especially 'cause of the aesthetics of what we provide for you.
• 29:35
  The experience that we give you.
• 29:36
  It's not like, "Boost your sales by 20% today!" It's more like, "Hey,
• 29:40
  are you tired of doing the same stuff that your boss keeps telling you to
• 29:43
  do over and over again that barely helps you hit quota every month?
• 29:46
  It makes you stressed, makes you anxious, makes life at home
• 29:50
  harder, makes you drink, makes you pick up bad habits in general.
• 29:54
  Makes you hate your life, and you've been doing it for seven years now.
• 29:57
  What the hell?
• 29:59
  Well come over here.
• 29:59
  We have something for you that will elicit freedom in your life."
• 30:02
  And like when people see the difference in those things, it's like, well they
• 30:06
  saw it 'cause we called it curriculum, but they bought it because we pulled
• 30:10
  at their heartstrings, and ultimately because we offer something so much
• 30:12
  different than everybody else.
• 30:14
  That's really what we offer, man.
• 30:15
  We offer this I idea of changing the way that your sales works.
• 30:18
  So, the thing is though, is that we're not cutting edge, dude.
• 30:22
  Like, I have traced contact marketing back with the father of contact
• 30:27
  marketing, if you will, Stu Heinecke.
• 30:29
  It's a silent mentor turned really good friend of mine at this point.
• 30:33
  That's cool.
• 30:33
  He's actually gonna be a Totality in Knoxville, Tennessee.
• 30:35
  August 26th, 27th, and 28th.
• 30:37
  Shout out to Totality.
• 30:38
  Fascinating.
• 30:39
  Okay.
• 30:39
  If you wanna meet him and learn about his crazy life, you know, 50
• 30:44
  years almost of contact marketing.
• 30:46
  It's a wild ride.
• 30:47
  That's amazing.
• 30:48
  You know, but through people like him, I was able to find like the Medici bro, like
• 30:53
  Da Vinci created a, like a painting for the Medici to like sell this other banking
• 31:00
  family on using their, you know network, if you will, by painting this picture, you
• 31:08
  know, through this famous artist, right?
• 31:11
  Like, to get these people to basically be like, "This is awesome. Let's
• 31:15
  take a meeting with these guys." Like, this is something that's
• 31:18
  been happening forever, dude.
• 31:19
  Yeah.
• 31:20
  But the idea is that we've lost touch with it because of the word "scalability,"
• 31:24
  first and foremost, and the greed that people have toward quick, fast, easy
• 31:28
  money, that doesn't last, by the way.
• 31:30
  Yeah.
• 31:30
  Right?
• 31:30
  Most of the companies that quick, fast, easy money, they sell, or
• 31:34
  they have to become an acquisition God among the marketplace in order
• 31:37
  to remain relevant to begin with.
• 31:39
  Yeah.
• 31:39
  Yeah.
• 31:40
  It's crazy that the biggest brands out there are big because they
• 31:43
  bought everybody else that was coming in to beat them, right?
• 31:46
  And that's what the, like literal strategy is a business these days.
• 31:50
  That to me is not sustainable, bro.
• 31:52
  Yeah.
• 31:52
  It's monopolizing networks and marketplaces.
• 31:56
  No one likes it on the consumer side.
• 31:58
  Like if you can only get one type of cable TV to your house
• 32:02
  and one internet connection and one phone, you know, provider.
• 32:06
  What the hell?
• 32:07
  Yeah.
• 32:07
  How is that a free marketplace?
• 32:08
  Welcome to America, right?
• 32:10
  The concept of what we sell is getting back to the roots of
• 32:15
  like, you don't have to build a big company and sell to some guy.
• 32:18
  You could just do this by yourself for the next 25 years.
• 32:21
  Make plenty of money.
• 32:23
  Be happy.
• 32:24
  Live in ultimate freedom.
• 32:25
  Give yourself time back to your life.
• 32:27
  Spend it on the things that you love and really literally do it different
• 32:32
  than everybody else, 'cause if I send a trash can to an office where I could
• 32:38
  potentially make $10,000 a year on a B2B product for a four year contract, right?
• 32:44
  $40,000, right?.
• 32:47
  One office, outcome, one type of revenue, like if I'm looking
• 32:49
  at ROIs, and everything else.
• 32:50
  And instead of, like saying, let's do the science and let's make a 47 touch
• 32:55
  sequence that lasts, you know, four months with emails and phone calls and
• 33:01
  you know, some drip stuff and blah, blah, blah, like if, but if instead,
• 33:05
  if I were to just say like, no, we're gonna instead just do like a tense touch
• 33:10
  sequence, and we are gonna take our time.
• 33:12
  If it takes a couple months, that's fine.
• 33:14
  Yeah.
• 33:14
  But we're gonna give people an intense experience unlike anything they've
• 33:17
  ever gotten, and so that person has people calling on them all day long.
• 33:22
  "Hey, can I get 15 minutes of your time?" "Hey, this is a sales call.
• 33:24
  Do you want to hang up?" Like, no shade.
• 33:26
  No shade.
• 33:27
  Like those are, those things work sometimes, right?
• 33:29
  For sure, but the obnoxiousness really, and like the tone of voice is because,
• 33:34
  like, that's what a lot of people who buy, that's how they feel about it.
• 33:38
  Like, a lot of 'em will still entertain it just because it's
• 33:40
  different, but they're like, yeah, you know, it kinda gets old over time.
• 33:43
  But that's with anything.
• 33:43
  Yeah.
• 33:44
  Like we just talked about over time.
• 33:45
  Oh yeah.
• 33:45
  People catch on, man, but if instead I send you an experience and it's
• 33:50
  not like a catchy line or a, let's just say a misleading subject line
• 33:57
  about, like, chicken soup or something stupid, like these people think are,
• 34:01
  you know, are a pattern interrupt, but instead it's a trash can, and you're
• 34:06
  like, "What is this?" And you open it up, and there's a letter that says,
• 34:09
  "Hey, I threw this away," 'cause sales marketing, you know, and brochures
• 34:12
  and white papers, they're trash.
• 34:14
  Yeah.
• 34:14
  You toss 'em anyway, so made it easier and just like pre-crumpled and pre-threw
• 34:20
  mine away, then some people would say that that's a gimmick, and while I
• 34:24
  would agree, I would also say like, in this buying market is actually the
• 34:27
  most relevant thing you could tell somebody because well, all they do is get
• 34:30
  inundated with cold calls all day long.
• 34:32
  They freaking hate it, bro.
• 34:33
  Yeah.
• 34:34
  And so I can literally speak the love language of the person
• 34:36
  I'm calling on by doing that.
• 34:38
  Yeah.
• 34:38
  And it's a great pattern interrupt too, because you don't expect to get
• 34:40
  a crumpled up letter in the mail.
• 34:42
  You look at it and you go, why the crap am I getting this?
• 34:45
  Like, what's going on?
• 34:46
  And then.
• 34:47
  You know, you're more likely to read it because you're curious about why
• 34:49
  it was crumpled in your in your enve
• 34:51
  lope to begin with.
• 34:53
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• 35:34
  I think you, did you say at one point you even, like, I think I recall this
• 35:37
  from previous thing I saw where you actually were, I think you talked,
• 35:40
  you do like a basket, you send 'em like a basketball goal for the trash
• 35:45
  can or something like that as well.
• 35:46
  They, you know, there's like variations of the crumpled letter for sure.
• 35:50
  I learned it by, so I actually, the origination of the crumpled letters that
• 35:55
  I was tearing my business cards in the middle and telling people, people would
• 36:01
  say, "Can I get your business card?" And I would hand it to them, and by the
• 36:04
  way, I actually had somebody manufacture them where they velcroed in the middle.
• 36:08
  It cost me so much money, but it was like one of the coolest things I ever did, but
• 36:13
  I was sitting in my car one day, and after like an FU experience like a literal, "Get
• 36:20
  the F outta my office," experience, and I, you know, I'd gone through stuff like
• 36:24
  that before, but this one was just super intense and I thought to myself like,
• 36:27
  what, you know, what can I walk in with?
• 36:30
  'cause the card, even the business card was like something I gave at the end,
• 36:34
  you know, when they asked, I got the like the scissors that had like, the texture
• 36:39
  to them, so it looked like jagged edges, you know, when I cut down the middle.
• 36:42
  So it was cool.
• 36:42
  People loved it, but I couldn't, I didn't walk in the door and like
• 36:46
  say, "Hey, here's my business card.
• 36:47
  It's pre-torn so you could throw it away." It didn't feel right, so I started
• 36:51
  coming up with this idea of, well, most of what we're doing angers people, and
• 36:59
  I actually came up with, at the time, I came up with two other letters that
• 37:03
  I just didn't try, because then I heard about a version of the crumbled letter,
• 37:07
  if you will, which I'll get into.
• 37:07
  But first, I burnt the edges of a letter, and I put it in a matchbox, and I just put
• 37:15
  like, "Light this on fire," on the top of the matchbox, and I was like, that's sick.
• 37:19
  And then I did a coffee stain letter, 'cause I was
• 37:22
  thinking about my demographic.
• 37:23
  Who am I selling to?
• 37:24
  Why would it be relative relevant to them?
• 37:26
  And the second was like IT.
• 37:28
  I deal with it all the time, so I did like Mountain Dew, and then I did coffee.
• 37:31
  And I put these stains of Mountain Dew and these stains of coffee on
• 37:35
  the letters, and I just put like.
• 37:37
  So wait, were you hand staining though?
• 37:38
  Yeah, dude, I was doing this my hand at the time, right?
• 37:40
  That's impressive.
• 37:42
  Okay.
• 37:42
  We were like sitting in my office like a scientist.
• 37:44
  You're just making a mess.
• 37:44
  Just like making an absolute mess, and my boss like, "What are you doing man?"
• 37:48
  You know, like, and this was my dad at the time, so I was my boss at this stage.
• 37:51
  This was 2009 when I first started dabbling in contact marketing, right?
• 37:55
  Yeah.
• 37:56
  But then I heard this story about this guy who he was sending letters to
• 37:59
  people through real estate, and he was like friend of a friend kind of thing,
• 38:03
  so I heard, I didn't read about this.
• 38:05
  I heard it from the horse's mouth when he saw my letters.
• 38:08
  He goes, "Dude, check this out," and this guy was sending in the real estate
• 38:11
  world, he was sending to all these people who had listed their houses for 90 days,
• 38:15
  he was sending them advertising and getting like a less than 1% response.
• 38:19
  And so like he'd send it and 10 days later when he got a response, he'd
• 38:23
  send it again, except this time he put like a marker, a red sharpie on it
• 38:27
  that said, "Don't throw me away again." It was almost like it got resurrected
• 38:31
  from the trash, and I was like, damn.
• 38:33
  That's a good idea.
• 38:34
  Yeah.
• 38:35
  The guy was calling it the crumpled letter.
• 38:36
  I think it was actually crumpled too, which is why he called it that.
• 38:40
  But that was the story I heard, and then I took one of those letters
• 38:43
  I had and I like, I balled it up, and I opened it back up, and I was
• 38:45
  like, yo, this is a really good idea.
• 38:49
  Bought some little mini trash cans, and then I made envelopes too that said
• 38:53
  like, "crumpled letter inside," using like the red handwriting like he had.
• 38:57
  Where he had put, "don't throw me away again," I just put, "crumpled letter
• 39:00
  inside," you know, dot, dot, dot, 'cause I felt from my perspective, it was
• 39:04
  how do we drive curiosity in people?
• 39:06
  How do we create relevance to the messaging?
• 39:10
  Drive back to what we fix and help people with and then also
• 39:14
  give them this epic experience that makes them curious, excited.
• 39:17
  Even if they're like, yeah, you know, it was whatever, 'cause they're just
• 39:20
  not a very fun person, that they would never forget what you did to them
• 39:23
  because of the way that, typically, salespeople reach out in the first place.
• 39:27
  So that's like the entire context of how I started to create this
• 39:32
  idea of doing things different.
• 39:34
  And that's what The Sales Rebellion does, man.
• 39:35
  We literally, and every imagine that you get a response from somebody
• 39:39
  in your typical sales walk that says, "Hey, reach out to me in 12
• 39:43
  months." What do we typically do?
• 39:46
  We reach out to them for the next six months, like every other month
• 39:49
  kind of thing with like some stupid marketing thing that we think they'll
• 39:53
  like and enjoy, but we have no idea.
• 39:55
  They've never, they didn't even ask for that in the first place.
• 39:58
  But imagine like a month later, they get a save the date in the mail like you
• 40:03
  would send out when you get married or have a bar mitzvah or whatever, right?
• 40:07
  Imagine to save the date.
• 40:08
  And it's like, you know, the alignment, or you could even call it the matrimony
• 40:15
  of ABC company and XYZ company, and then it's like the date they asked you
• 40:21
  12 months later, and like, "Hey, I know you asked me to reach out in 12 months,
• 40:24
  so I'm saving the date for us, and I look forward to meeting you then."
• 40:28
  And they have this whole experience and they're like, they say two things.
• 40:32
  Like, either this person is genius or they're insane, and both of those things
• 40:35
  I believe to be really good options as opposed to indifference, right?
• 40:39
  Because that's how they look at 99% of salespeople is
• 40:42
  they're indifferent to them.
• 40:44
  You don't exist in their mind, in their heart, in their ecosystem, period.
• 40:48
  Because you're forgettable.
• 40:49
  Yeah.
• 40:50
  Yeah.
• 40:51
  Nothing like finding ways to stick out, and when you mentioned people
• 40:56
  being angry at you all the time, like so much PTSD just flashing through my
• 41:01
  head of times where I've been yelled at or hollered at, and I wouldn't
• 41:04
  consider myself that annoying.
• 41:05
  You learn to be persistent and not, you know, pestering as I like to say.
• 41:10
  But yeah, you definitely
• 41:14
  run into situations where people are like, "Stop bothering me, quit," and they do
• 41:18
  anything they can to tell you to stop.
• 41:20
  So if you can do something to make them laugh or at least make them think before
• 41:23
  they throw it away, you know that that's gonna help you on that next follow up
• 41:27
  or that next contact, so that's awesome.
• 41:29
  Yeah.
• 41:29
  That's really cool.
• 41:30
  So you do stuff like that, you also do what?
• 41:33
  Consulting on top of that as well?
• 41:34
  Yeah.
• 41:34
  You know, we're like a, I don't know, there's just like
• 41:38
  a trash can of options, right?
• 41:40
  Like ultimately we have "advisors" is what we call it.
• 41:44
  So like if you came in, and you're looking at your sales process, whether
• 41:47
  it's just your outbound or it's a couple different, it's discoveries, it's
• 41:51
  closing, like wherever your problems are, we have an advisory program we put
• 41:54
  people through, but like ultimately, like what everything drives back to
• 41:56
  in our organization is fulfillment.
• 41:59
  So if you're a company that doesn't have salespeople that are
• 42:03
  achieving outcomes that you desire, you know, we used to do training.
• 42:07
  We did it for like five years almost.
• 42:09
  This is the first year that we haven't really done quote unquote "training," and,
• 42:13
  but because the problem with that is that like five of the 50 people that you put
• 42:16
  to the program are gonna actually do it.
• 42:18
  And even though they make, they end up filling the gap and getting record years
• 42:22
  to the organization, we got 45 people that still, yeah, just kind of like existing.
• 42:27
  And so what like B players and C players, right?
• 42:30
  Like do they exist?
• 42:31
  Yeah.
• 42:31
  In a competitive environments, but if you culture that, there's nothing good
• 42:35
  about that, so I, what we figured, you know, about a year ago was we
• 42:40
  need to make some changes here.
• 42:41
  We need to not just go in and show people what to do and how to do it and
• 42:44
  provide them with all the resources.
• 42:46
  You just do it for them, so we become more of like a boutique
• 42:49
  agency, if you will, for sales.
• 42:51
  So you hire us on as like a sales rep.
• 42:54
  Okay.
• 42:54
  And we become, we're in the bullpen, like we're a ghost because, you know,
• 42:57
  we're just an empty chair 'cause we're remote, but we use the mail
• 43:01
  system, which is widely effective.
• 43:03
  People just don't know how to do it right is the thing.
• 43:05
  There's a lot of rules that have changed.
• 43:08
  Mail forwarding, digitizing mail, so there's a lot of ways to get to people,
• 43:12
  remote or not, through the mail.
• 43:14
  So we use the mail, and then we have a system of follow up, which is way
• 43:19
  different than agencies that are doing just straight cold calling
• 43:22
  using their pitches, which are great.
• 43:24
  You know, I have a couple great friends that run agencies like
• 43:27
  that, but our calls are hated.
• 43:29
  This is the guy that sent you that trash can in the mail, and
• 43:32
  the conversion of that is insane.
• 43:33
  I mean, we'll take a list of 150 people and we'll, 51 of them will become
• 43:37
  disqualified really fast because they'll respond, "Yo, I got your letter. We
• 43:43
  don't have what you offer though, and we don't need it, you know? Thank you
• 43:46
  though." You know, so like enrichment, things like that are important, right?
• 43:49
  But like, imagine that you put a, I say it this way, 'cause imagine you put
• 43:52
  a rep into that seed and gave 'em 150 names and said like, get some responses,
• 43:56
  and 51 of those people don't even qualify, but you never hear from them.
• 44:00
  You chase them for the next 10 years.
• 44:02
  Yeah.
• 44:02
  What a wild thought man, and so like, we're helping organizations to understand
• 44:07
  list integrity, data integrity.
• 44:09
  We're helping organizations to understand that sales doesn't have to
• 44:11
  be done the way that everybody does it.
• 44:13
  Right.
• 44:13
  And that ultimately, like even if this idea becomes
• 44:15
  mainstream, it's freaking good.
• 44:17
  For the buyers.
• 44:18
  So people say all the time, like, "Well, it works now, buddy, but it, you know,
• 44:21
  enough people are doing this, it ain't gonna work," and like, bro, everyone
• 44:24
  calls and says, "Hi, this is a sales call.
• 44:26
  You wanna hang up?" "Hi, can I have 27 seconds of your time?" You
• 44:29
  know, like everybody says that.
• 44:30
  So like, what's the difference?
• 44:32
  Well, the difference is that people like ours.
• 44:34
  People really enjoy the experience and when, and again, like when they don't, it
• 44:38
  doesn't really matter that much, right?
• 44:39
  Yeah.
• 44:39
  So I think the problem and why I bring that up is that people
• 44:43
  are afraid of those risks.
• 44:44
  Well freaking just hire us and we'll do it for you, man.
• 44:46
  Right.
• 44:46
  And then like, and if we don't work, fire us, right?
• 44:50
  Like you've got 12 months of us building a pipeline for you, basically,
• 44:54
  which is highly effective, and then you just fire us and take the
• 44:58
  pipeline and go close it however you want, if you feel like it, right?
• 45:00
  Yeah.
• 45:01
  But additionally, like an individual, like if an individual is listening
• 45:03
  right now that doesn't like, have $30,000 to hire us as a sales rep and
• 45:07
  then pay us commission, you know, like.
• 45:10
  An individual can go to the rebel arcade and just buy the tutorials $24.99,
• 45:14
  all the way up to $490.98, right, of like the different packages, and
• 45:17
  you can, you'll coach 'em with that.
• 45:19
  You get resources with that and show you exactly how to build these
• 45:22
  campaigns for contact marketing.
• 45:24
  How to implement them, your ICP, how to speak to them
• 45:27
  effectively through written word.
• 45:29
  How to follow up with them effectively over the phone and through email
• 45:33
  after you're using these mediums.
• 45:35
  So we're really, like, for the people is how we look at it.
• 45:37
  Like, we're for the rebels.
• 45:38
  Like, we want everybody to be able to experience rebellion.
• 45:41
  So if your boss is like, "No, we would never bring these guys in for a workshop
• 45:45
  to show all 50 people for three days," or "No, we would never hire them for
• 45:48
  12 months to do sales for us," or you know, like, "No, I'm not putting
• 45:52
  you in one of their sales cohorts.
• 45:54
  You can just like outta your own pocket," spend a $100, $200, buy our playbooks
• 45:59
  and go implement them yourself. And then we have a free community that attaches
• 46:02
  to that as well too, for people that just want to come and like get some
• 46:05
  feedback and say like, "Yo, I sent a hundred things in the mail, and I
• 46:08
  didn't have the greatest experience.
• 46:10
  I need some help."
• 46:11
  Yeah.
• 46:11
  And allow, you know, our ecosystem, our community, our
• 46:13
  people to breathe life into them.
• 46:15
  So I mean, ultimately I think what we're turning into, bro, like just
• 46:18
  in a nutshell is, we're turning into a community for people that's more
• 46:21
  in-person than it is anything else.
• 46:24
  Yeah.
• 46:24
  And we're not a community that offers like a service that we coach
• 46:27
  you on for you to go and implement.
• 46:29
  We offer life transformational moments for you that go beyond sales, that help you to
• 46:34
  think bigger about your life, because as soon as you make that $20,000 commission
• 46:38
  check for the first time in your life at 27-years-old, or 21 or 47, because you've
• 46:44
  been jerked around your entire sales life thinking that, you know, $2,000 or
• 46:48
  $3,000 is acceptable, right, but instead we get you those big wins, that I'm
• 46:53
  telling your life changes in a flash, and especially with the things that we preach.
• 46:57
  It's not, "Go buy a dope car and a big house," it's cool, how much time
• 47:01
  does that buy you with your kids?
• 47:03
  With yourself, with your spouse, with your friends?
• 47:06
  How much time does that buy you to invest back into your own life?
• 47:09
  How many times do you need to make that check in order to just stop altogether?
• 47:14
  Having to make a big check, right?
• 47:15
  And just go be a greeter at Walmart for the rest of your
• 47:17
  life, and like, live in happiness.
• 47:20
  Yeah.
• 47:20
  And like we really, really, really, really preach the
• 47:23
  identity of doing what you love.
• 47:25
  And we believe that sales is a great place to start that, and that most people
• 47:28
  will end up making sourdough and selling it for $50 a loaf at like the local
• 47:32
  farmer's market because of what they found in the process of becoming a rebel.
• 47:37
  So rebellion is really a lifestyle.
• 47:39
  The Sales Rebellion in our product offering is life transformational.
• 47:43
  It's not just, "Let's sell more stuff," it's, "Let's be better."
• 47:47
  That's awesome.
• 47:48
  That's awesome, and with that, I noticed, you know, you talk
• 47:51
  a lot about the joy of selling.
• 47:54
  It's, dude sales is not always joyful, you know that, and I think it's counter
• 48:00
  cultural almost to talk about it being a joy and something people can love doing.
• 48:04
  Because for me, like I know through my career, it's been
• 48:06
  like, "Alright, this is the job.
• 48:08
  This is the career I chose.
• 48:09
  This is the path I went down.
• 48:10
  This is what I'm stuck in," and then coming back to it almost like
• 48:15
  in the Young Frankenstein where Gene Wilder's saying, "Destiny!
• 48:19
  Destiny!
• 48:21
  No escaping!
• 48:21
  That's for me!" That's how sales has felt for me most of my career.
• 48:25
  I try to avoid it, I try to be the Frankenstein, not Frankenstein, you
• 48:29
  know, up until that moment where he realizes, "Oh, I am Frankenstein,
• 48:33
  and for me, that's a challenge.
• 48:36
  So tell me more about like, that finding of joy.
• 48:39
  Like what does that mean within sales to you?
• 48:42
  And I mean, you've said a lot of it I think here, but I'd love you
• 48:45
  to just to kind of like sum it up.
• 48:46
  Yeah.
• 48:46
  Life is sales, and sales is life is the way that I look at it.
• 48:49
  I don't box sales into like some kind of compartment.
• 48:52
  I see sales as like a literal motion of life.
• 48:56
  That in sales, just like in my life, I'm gonna meet strangers and have
• 49:00
  the opportunity to be impactful to those people, to give them something,
• 49:06
  which is again, going back to the principles of serving leadership, but
• 49:10
  also to the principles of just being a good person and living a good life.
• 49:14
  So if we really look at, like, life is, we wake up in the morning, we do, you
• 49:19
  know, eight cold plunges and, you know, 7,000 pushups or whatever y'all do.
• 49:23
  And roll a banana on your face and all that.
• 49:25
  Banana water, and then we go to work, right?
• 49:30
  We eat lunch.
• 49:32
  We get outta work.
• 49:33
  We hang out with friends.
• 49:35
  Watch Severance, you know, like.
• 49:37
  Yeah.
• 49:37
  Whatever.
• 49:38
  Life is very predictable, ultimately.
• 49:40
  Yeah.
• 49:41
  It's the same thing over and over again, and it's very simple things,
• 49:44
  and those things do what for us.
• 49:45
  They bring us joy.
• 49:47
  Except for work.
• 49:48
  Hmm.
• 49:49
  Right?
• 49:49
  And the way that you described it, I think it's beautiful because it's, you
• 49:51
  know, it's like, "Well, life hasn't been good to me, bro." When I think of what
• 49:56
  you just said about sales, like, but I still find joy in life all the time.
• 50:00
  I think that the real opportunity is finding the failure.
• 50:03
  That's what brings you joy.
• 50:05
  I love it when somebody says something like, "You know what? I don't like
• 50:07
  what you're sending me in the mail. It's weird." Because it happens.
• 50:10
  It's rare, but it happens.
• 50:12
  I love that.
• 50:13
  I love to say to that person, "Sorry that it came across that way for you.
• 50:18
  I'll cease and desist, hang up on them instead of trying to like, do something
• 50:21
  crazy with them, and then immediately I'll do a little research, call the front
• 50:24
  desk, Hey, what's Jeff's favorite thing?"
• 50:27
  And then like a ghost or a fart in the wind, right?
• 50:30
  Like, I'm in and out and no one even knows I existed.
• 50:33
  I'll send him something without my name attached to it, nothing, and
• 50:36
  just say, "Hey, someone out here wants you to know that you're appreciated."
• 50:39
  Because when I hear some people say things like that, I think, man, they
• 50:43
  don't get enough joy in their life.
• 50:46
  They don't have the things that I have.
• 50:47
  They don't have a incredible wife.
• 50:50
  They don't have two amazing kids that I shouldn't even have, bro.
• 50:53
  I should be dead.
• 50:54
  My story is that 2014, I should have been gone.
• 50:57
  Hmm.
• 50:58
  Right?
• 50:58
  I'm a miracle.
• 51:00
  I'm a product of grace.
• 51:02
  So when I think of joy, I think, bro, everything in life is joy for me, right?
• 51:08
  Again, because of my story, because of the things I've experienced, because
• 51:11
  of the fact that I shouldn't be sitting here with you right now, which gives
• 51:14
  me chills every time when I think about it, just how miraculous my existence
• 51:19
  is, and I totally take advantage of it.
• 51:21
  I eat too much.
• 51:22
  I play too much, right?
• 51:23
  But I love my life.
• 51:27
  I love the good.
• 51:28
  I love the bad.
• 51:29
  I love the indifference.
• 51:30
  I love the ugly, all of it.
• 51:32
  I find joy in it.
• 51:33
  Instead of stress and anxiety.
• 51:35
  I'm a patient person.
• 51:37
  I seek out moments where I have to test that and challenge that, and in sales, I
• 51:42
  think, like when you make the commitment to it, what you have to understand is that
• 51:45
  because it's a part of life, that's why it's the hardest thing for people to do.
• 51:49
  Because me and my preferences, I would prefer that my life look like this,
• 51:54
  but I am not the driver, and that's the thing that most people don't understand.
• 51:58
  Like, I might impact the decisions through my action and my free will if we even
• 52:03
  have that in the first place, right?
• 52:05
  Sometimes it doesn't feel like it, but sure, I have to be the
• 52:10
  one that makes the decisions.
• 52:11
  But man, like if I could just like surrender and die to myself every day, my
• 52:16
  life would be full of joy, and those are the decisions that I made a long time ago.
• 52:22
  You know, so a kid is getting outta hand at the home front,
• 52:25
  standing up in his chair, you know, screaming and yelling at his mom.
• 52:29
  Like, sure, there's an appropriate way to reprimand that child and to help
• 52:35
  that child learn versus one that's not.
• 52:37
  But you can find joy in that moment.
• 52:39
  Just like when someone tells you to, "F off and never email me again."
• 52:42
  You can find joy in that moment.
• 52:44
  I'm going to literally, I'm gonna write an email, I'm gonna print it.
• 52:48
  I'm gonna send in the mail with a little note that says, "Hey, you said never
• 52:51
  to email you again. So, I sent this one in the mail," and literally when I call
• 52:57
  back or behind that guy, I like, either they have a restraining order, you know?
• 53:02
  Like it's over.
• 53:03
  Yeah.
• 53:04
  Or they got a really good moment from that, even if it wasn't like a
• 53:09
  chuckle, it was more like impressive or intense, you know, can't
• 53:14
  believe this guy actually did this.
• 53:16
  Yeah.
• 53:17
  Which hopefully just opens people's mind to what joy really is.
• 53:20
  Yeah.
• 53:21
  Yeah, because I mean, the way you're describing it too, it's not just, and
• 53:26
  I've always thought of joy this way too, of like, it's not just about having fun.
• 53:31
  Joy is really more than just being pleased with something in the moment,
• 53:36
  or, you know, something that like what a Marie Kondo, like, sparks joy in you.
• 53:40
  You know, it's not just something that makes you happy.
• 53:42
  Joy can be something that you feel even when things are tough, and
• 53:46
  having that ability to identify that.
• 53:49
  I think that's a great perspective on it because a lot of people,
• 53:52
  including myself, you know, you're gonna get down on yourself.
• 53:54
  You're gonna get frustrated, oh, I didn't close this, I didn't close that.
• 53:57
  Oh, this didn't go my way.
• 53:58
  And all of a sudden things start to fall apart and it's really easy
• 54:02
  to, get stuck in those moments.
• 54:04
  And then just to give up entirely.
• 54:06
  So,
• 54:08
  I think that's a, that's a really good perspective on it, so that's awesome.
• 54:11
  So you mentioned you're doing Totality.
• 54:14
  What, what is Totality?
• 54:16
  Tell me about that.
• 54:17
  Yeah, simply put, If people are ready for something different, if they're
• 54:23
  ready for something that isn't gonna teach them to be a better seller or a
• 54:28
  better marketer, or a better business owner, but it's gonna teach them to take
• 54:32
  risks, to challenge themselves, to do things that are unpopular, if you will,
• 54:39
  with the end goal in mind of becoming a better person, that will subsequently
• 54:44
  make them better at their profession, Totality is for you, and it really,
• 54:50
  what we decided is like there's a lot of people out there that's like, "We're the
• 54:53
  anti-sales conference," or, "We're the anti-conference," and then you go to 'em,
• 54:56
  and it's like, are you sure about that?
• 54:57
  It's just a conference.
• 54:59
  Y'all are still just throwing a conference together.
• 55:00
  It's just, I'm not getting pitched as much as I normally would.
• 55:03
  I'm still getting pitched, right?
• 55:05
  Ours is a community-based concept that you don't know the agenda when you come.
• 55:11
  You know that there's speakers, but we also don't have any speakers.
• 55:15
  It's nothing but live workshops.
• 55:17
  Oh, wow.
• 55:17
  It's nothing but interactive workshops as well too.
• 55:20
  Oh.
• 55:20
  So like you're immersed into something that you didn't even know
• 55:22
  was gonna happen in the first place.
• 55:23
  You have to do something.
• 55:24
  You can't just nurse a hangover the whole time.
• 55:26
  That's true, and actually there's no alcohol at Totality either.
• 55:29
  Oh, interesting.
• 55:30
  Yeah, we do everything actually against the grain of the way the conferences work.
• 55:35
  So we make it exciting.
• 55:37
  There's tons of twists and turns, lots of very just experiential moments for
• 55:42
  people instead of just like a, "Oh, that was a great talk," it's like a,
• 55:45
  "I participated in what just happened just now that I didn't know was gonna
• 55:50
  even happen in the first place."
• 55:52
  We have it at a place we call the Rebel Hideaway.
• 55:55
  Which is really fun because the lore of The Sales Rebellion is that there's
• 55:59
  all these mythological creatures and people like The Copier Warrior, and
• 56:02
  we've got a guy with a personal brand called The Finance Viking, and it's fun.
• 56:06
  Like we've built this mythical place and all this lore where you come and
• 56:09
  experience that lore, dude, in person.
• 56:12
  It's like you said earlier, there's more to this name, dude.
• 56:16
  I feel some like something go, I'm a nerd.
• 56:18
  I said it right earlier.
• 56:20
  I'm a nerd man.
• 56:20
  Like, when people come to Totality, their life changes because of what we desire for
• 56:26
  them, not what we want to build ourselves.
• 56:29
  Like we're meeting people where they are.
• 56:30
  Like most people, that came for Totality One, 90% of the feedback
• 56:35
  was, "I would normally, I would never say yes to something like this.
• 56:40
  I didn't even know what to pack.
• 56:41
  In my back, other than a toothbrush," you know, "but I just trusted
• 56:46
  that this was gonna be insane and holy cow, you delivered." And
• 56:50
  that was just the first one, bro.
• 56:52
  On a shoestring budget, you know and losing money, even like, you know,
• 56:56
  like, so imagine what it's gonna look like in year two, and then I've
• 56:59
  already planned 10 of these, man.
• 57:00
  I've never told anybody that outside of the close circle.
• 57:03
  So you're getting an exclusive right here, but I've planned 10 of these.
• 57:06
  So, who, because who knows, you know.
• 57:08
  Like what, eventually when you build something, what you're trying to work
• 57:11
  toward, the thought is that in most cases we have this idea of the outcome.
• 57:19
  Man, I'm here for the journey.
• 57:21
  So when I sat down and made the first one, I was like, okay, but
• 57:23
  what does the second one look like?
• 57:25
  And then by the time I got to 10, I went, oh man, I'm feeling this.
• 57:29
  I'm feeling this, and the idea is that if we can, it ultimately allow
• 57:34
  people to dream the same way that we are through Totality and giving them
• 57:37
  permission to just think outside the box, to be rebellious, to be more
• 57:40
  creative in their work life and their personal life, to be more present in
• 57:45
  their work life and their personal life, to really like experience this thing
• 57:50
  that we get to do as people together.
• 57:54
  We were talking about the actual Totality, like the eclipse, right?
• 57:58
  Going to that, like a lot of people have never experienced that, dude.
• 58:04
  It, and then the people that have, when you ask 'em like, what was it like
• 58:08
  if they didn't have their phone out recording everything, they'll say, "Oh
• 58:11
  my God. Buddy, you suddenly realize how small you are in the grand scheme
• 58:16
  of things when everything goes black."
• 58:19
  Right.
• 58:19
  From a moon in front of a sun.
• 58:21
  Like this is insane what's happening right now.
• 58:23
  Right, but.
• 58:23
  Right.
• 58:24
  That's what exactly the kind of feeling we want people to have at Totality.
• 58:28
  We wanna break you to the point of like, oh my God, am
• 58:32
  I letting them do this to me.
• 58:34
  Sadness and overwhelming emotions of man, am I doing enough, man?
• 58:38
  Am I trying hard enough?
• 58:40
  Absolutely.
• 58:40
  What we want you to feel in those moments.
• 58:42
  Wow.
• 58:43
  Because otherwise you go to a conference and you leave and you're like, oh my
• 58:45
  God, that was great, and then you get pitched for nine weeks, you know, from
• 58:49
  a bunch of people you never met to go, thanks for coming by our booth.
• 58:52
  You know?
• 58:52
  Oh gosh.
• 58:53
  Yeah.
• 58:53
  This is such a nightmare, right, in general.
• 58:56
  And then ultimately, it's this idea too of like micro meetups, if you will.
• 59:02
  So we cap it at 150.
• 59:04
  I'll probably do less than that this year.
• 59:05
  We did a hundred people a year one.
• 59:07
  We had a hurricane, like literally.
• 59:09
  Oh wow.
• 59:10
  Eye of the Storm came over where we had the event.
• 59:13
  Right.
• 59:14
  Were you in East Tennessee or where were you this year?
• 59:16
  Yeah, we were here.
• 59:17
  We were up here in Knoxville.
• 59:18
  Yeah.
• 59:18
  And we're here again.
• 59:19
  Golly.
• 59:20
  This year, right?
• 59:20
  It's about like, we still had an amazing turnout even with, despite
• 59:25
  the storm people still landed somehow and got to the event.
• 59:28
  It was crazy, dude.
• 59:28
  Yeah.
• 59:29
  Right?
• 59:30
  And we got to experience what it's like to just like have a
• 59:32
  hundred people in a room, right?
• 59:33
  Like, so we're not gonna go much bigger than that.
• 59:35
  I'll probably cap it at 125.
• 59:37
  We're like 50, 60% tickets sold right now.
• 59:40
  This time last year we had nine tickets sold, right?
• 59:42
  Like, it's a whole new thing for us, right?
• 59:45
  But I believe we're doing it right.
• 59:47
  I believe that we're doing it effectively.
• 59:49
  I believe that we've started something.
• 59:52
  I won't be surprised to see other people doing it too and giving us zero credit,
• 59:57
  which is totally fine, but I won't be surprised by that at all because
• 1:00:00
  man, people are looking for this.
• 1:00:02
  And that's the ultimate outcome of the question is that you're looking for this.
• 1:00:06
  If you're listening to this right now, and you're hearing this, I promise
• 1:00:10
  you that even if you don't think you are, I bet when you show up and
• 1:00:14
  have the experience that you leave going, holy cow, I needed that so bad.
• 1:00:18
  More than I knew.
• 1:00:19
  Yeah, I could definitely, I mean, I could definitely see that, 'cause I
• 1:00:23
  actually had a chance, I was spying on you a bunch last night doing my
• 1:00:26
  research for this interview, but I looked at a little bit of your documentary
• 1:00:30
  series that you did on last year and everything you're doing there.
• 1:00:33
  And I could tell, like it's definitely a different event.
• 1:00:37
  It's definitely something that people, I think would really get
• 1:00:39
  a lot out of, especially being in, having been in the sales room.
• 1:00:42
  Like I've been in a room in an auditorium in Little Rock, Arkansas with Zig Ziglar
• 1:00:49
  and his whole crew of people, which aren't direct salespeople, but they definitely
• 1:00:52
  are, you know, the motivational types.
• 1:00:54
  And they'll tell you how to get a million dollars overnight if
• 1:00:57
  you sign up for this one thing.
• 1:00:58
  And I think Rudy Giuliani spoke at that.
• 1:01:00
  He did.
• 1:01:01
  Yeah.
• 1:01:01
  Shoot.
• 1:01:02
  Good Lord.
• 1:01:02
  Yeah.
• 1:01:02
  That was wild.
• 1:01:03
  Sorry.
• 1:01:04
  I know.
• 1:01:04
  Thank you.
• 1:01:05
  Yeah, I didn't notice the oil running down the face or anything, but yeah.
• 1:01:10
  Anyways, so that was, that was just a wild, flashback in my head just now, but
• 1:01:16
  yeah, you know, like you're used to that or you're used to these sales training
• 1:01:20
  events you have to go to, and it's like, I mean, again, I'll go back to my AT&T days.
• 1:01:23
  It's like, I would be in a room in, you know, Dallas, Texas, and you just
• 1:01:29
  be in a windowless room for hours on end and learning sales principles and
• 1:01:33
  reading things and falling asleep and trying to stay awake and hope you can
• 1:01:36
  get to the evening when you can use your per diem and go out and get some
• 1:01:39
  good food and beer and just be done.
• 1:01:42
  So the idea that you're doing it differently, even down to no alcohol,
• 1:01:45
  to, for, I don't know if it's a personal principle that you're not doing that
• 1:01:49
  for, or if it's a, "Hey, we want people to be focused at this conference,
• 1:01:53
  and we don't want the hangovers at the every day during the event," but
• 1:01:57
  that idea alone is like different.
• 1:01:59
  It stands out and it's gonna be for people that want that difference.
• 1:02:03
  And I think that that's cool.
• 1:02:04
  So.
• 1:02:05
  Yeah, I think you're doing something neat.
• 1:02:07
  Thanks, dude.
• 1:02:07
  I
• 1:02:07
  think you're doing some cool stuff, and I'm not just saying that to
• 1:02:10
  like just brag on you, but I've been really fascinated with everything
• 1:02:12
  you've done with The Sales Rebellion.
• 1:02:13
  So it's really neat to be able to learn more about it today,
• 1:02:16
  learn more about what you
• 1:02:17
  're doing.
• 1:02:18
  Last question on The Sales Rebellion.
• 1:02:21
  I noticed on the website you have a button for submitting a prayer request.
• 1:02:25
  What's that about?
• 1:02:27
  My business is a ministry.
• 1:02:28
  Just like I said, that sales is life.
• 1:02:31
  I also believe that like in all facets of everything that I do, that I want to make
• 1:02:37
  sure that people understand my purview is, or really like I should say, that the
• 1:02:43
  vision of my life is not what I'll do on this Earth, it's eternal, is the idea.
• 1:02:50
  It's that I'm looking at something completely different
• 1:02:53
  than what everybody else is.
• 1:02:54
  So when you see a website and you see this cool thing that this guy is doing,
• 1:02:58
  I really want people to understand too that like, I don't find that to be
• 1:03:01
  the most important thing in my life.
• 1:03:04
  Most important thing in my life is people, and ultimately in my faith
• 1:03:09
  and the way that I live my faith, and I practice my faith, and I've learned
• 1:03:12
  my faith, and I've become deeply ingrained in my faith is that people
• 1:03:16
  matter more than we have let on.
• 1:03:19
  And that in most cases, something as simple as letting a person, which
• 1:03:24
  by the way, we have thousands of submissions, letting a person just
• 1:03:30
  reflect for a minute, first on like what they're grateful for and then
• 1:03:33
  what we could pray for them for.
• 1:03:35
  And like knowing, even if we never contact them, if they're not interested in that,
• 1:03:39
  knowing that someone out there is lifting them up, even if they don't believe in
• 1:03:44
  the same God that I do, or they don't follow the same religious principles that
• 1:03:47
  I do, just knowing that a person cares that much to stop what they're doing and
• 1:03:52
  lift them up, or to take a minute out of their morning and to lift them up.
• 1:03:56
  It's that joy principle that we keep coming back to in
• 1:03:59
  this conversation, really.
• 1:04:01
  How do I give people joy in their life by helping them to
• 1:04:04
  see how important they truly are?
• 1:04:07
  And again, like through my religious principles, I think that, I believe.
• 1:04:11
  I'm a follower of Jesus, bro.
• 1:04:13
  To me, it's that, right?
• 1:04:16
  It's love for everyone, man.
• 1:04:17
  Eternal love too, not just while you're here on earth, but this
• 1:04:21
  idea of like, where are you headed?
• 1:04:23
  What does the story look like when you're gone, who will you bring
• 1:04:26
  with you through the process?
• 1:04:29
  I just, I think that we look at that as more of a fairy tale than
• 1:04:34
  we do as reality in this generation and in this world in general.
• 1:04:37
  I think that we've dumbed religion down to just a church, like an organization, even.
• 1:04:45
  We don't live it on a daily basis.
• 1:04:47
  It's just Sunday or whenever we did our Hail Marys.
• 1:04:50
  Shoutout to my Catholic friend over here, but
• 1:04:54
  the real principle to me is like, well, what, what about every other day?
• 1:04:57
  What about every other moment?
• 1:04:58
  What about the ability to be able to let other people in on what it is
• 1:05:02
  that you do without it being a place where they think they might be judged?
• 1:05:06
  Or where they don't believe they can go.
• 1:05:09
  Right.
• 1:05:09
  But if you give them that outlet, and that's why there's
• 1:05:11
  a prayer request on the page.
• 1:05:13
  I love it.
• 1:05:14
  That's awesome.
• 1:05:15
  I'm a big believer in like, well, I'm a big believer, period.
• 1:05:18
  I am a Christian as well, but one of the things I'm big on is, like, not just
• 1:05:24
  including a Jesus fish on your website if you're gonna preach your faith.
• 1:05:28
  Like, that to me is the most annoying thing ever because how many times
• 1:05:31
  have you seen it there, and then you know something about that company, and
• 1:05:34
  you're like, or you've heard something about them like that just completely
• 1:05:38
  discredits everything else about that.
• 1:05:40
  I think it's a very, it's not the worst thing in the world, but like claiming it
• 1:05:45
  versus doing it is something different.
• 1:05:47
  So seeing that button on your website really stuck out to me is like, oh,
• 1:05:50
  he's really doing it, and hearing you get people submitting and stuff,
• 1:05:53
  like, that's a great way to connect with people, and you know, even if
• 1:05:57
  you're not going to respond directly to them through that, it's just
• 1:06:00
  an anonymous prayer request thing.
• 1:06:02
  Like the fact that you're doing that, you're thinking you're praying,
• 1:06:04
  like all that stuff is awesome.
• 1:06:06
  So.
• 1:06:06
  Yeah.
• 1:06:07
  Yeah.
• 1:06:07
  I just found it really neat.
• 1:06:08
  So.
• 1:06:08
  Thanks, bro.
• 1:06:09
  Our mission statement, just for everybody here, is to tear down the castles of
• 1:06:13
  the old guard and to build a kingdom of rebels, and that kingdom mindset is
• 1:06:18
  really what we lead with in all things.
• 1:06:19
  That's so cool.
• 1:06:20
  So in the way that we wear our ministry and our sleeves, so.
• 1:06:22
  Yeah.
• 1:06:22
  That'
• 1:06:22
  s awesome.
• 1:06:24
  Okay, well this is, We Built This Brand.
• 1:06:27
  I always have this wrap up question, so I'm gonna ask it to you anyway.
• 1:06:31
  You know, I always like to know like what brand, out of everything that you deal
• 1:06:35
  with and everything in your life right now, what brand do you admire the most?
• 1:06:39
  I think the most disruptive brand right now that I admire a lot, I
• 1:06:43
  think a lot of people, don't like the brand because of their name, mostly.
• 1:06:48
  And they've done some really weird stunts as well too.
• 1:06:51
  Like, I saw something, actually a guy in my network, friend of mine showed
• 1:06:56
  me like where they hired a witch doctor for an advertisement, right?
• 1:07:00
  Uhhuh.
• 1:07:00
  Like it was total stunt, right?
• 1:07:01
  Uhhuh.
• 1:07:01
  But they made people think that they were like cursing their product for
• 1:07:04
  everybody to be cursed, you know?
• 1:07:06
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:07:07
  Total stunt, right?
• 1:07:08
  But anyway, but so I think they get a bad rap because of things like that
• 1:07:12
  in some circles, but bro, they are the literal definition of disruptive,
• 1:07:16
  and they're called Liquid Death.
• 1:07:17
  Oh, yeah.
• 1:07:18
  And when you think about how they started, there's three things
• 1:07:21
  that I admire the most about them.
• 1:07:22
  One is just that the world was inundated with cans of energy drinks, right?
• 1:07:28
  So when you go to the gas station, you can get a can of energy drink or a
• 1:07:32
  plastic bottle of water, and a lot of the time it's an emotional decision, man.
• 1:07:39
  So you look at this cool can with this awesome artwork, and like,
• 1:07:43
  I could use a little energy, even to an extent, and you buy that.
• 1:07:46
  And like water's just like, I can get that outta the sink.
• 1:07:49
  Yeah.
• 1:07:49
  Whatever.
• 1:07:50
  And so they've disrupted that whole mindset of the consumer that
• 1:07:53
  goes in to buy, and this is real.
• 1:07:55
  These are facts, bro.
• 1:07:56
  These are, I've learned a lot about this brand.
• 1:07:59
  I really admire them.
• 1:08:00
  I'm trying to give them to be the main sponsor of Totality.
• 1:08:03
  It'll happen one day.
• 1:08:03
  Don't worry about that, but the second thing that I love is that part of their
• 1:08:08
  model too was like going to bars and saying, hey, like, you know, instead of
• 1:08:13
  this like, tap water out of this gun, you put our water up here, and just
• 1:08:17
  like, 'cause it's so metal, like you said earlier about me and my existence, right?
• 1:08:21
  Like these guys, they are so smart.
• 1:08:23
  They go to all these bars and they go, "Here. Here's cases of our water. Sell
• 1:08:27
  it to your people," and people just buy it because it looks like a, you
• 1:08:29
  know, like a big can of beer, right?
• 1:08:32
  Like literally, that's why people psychologically we're just like, oh,
• 1:08:35
  this is cool, and then they drink 16 ounces of water after too many
• 1:08:39
  drinks, which helps to sober them up.
• 1:08:42
  Right.
• 1:08:42
  Which helps their health in general.
• 1:08:44
  Maybe not.
• 1:08:45
  Maybe I'm a little, it's a stretch there to say that, but again, the thought
• 1:08:49
  of how to disrupt a bar market with water is, it's a losing thought, right?
• 1:08:55
  Yeah.
• 1:08:56
  Unless you're Liquid Death, and then the third thing that I admire the
• 1:08:59
  most about them is they are so risky with the way that they advertise.
• 1:09:03
  I mean, like pregnant moms drinking their water for the Super Bowl ad, I
• 1:09:06
  think is what it was, and like, they sell a casket full of their water because.
• 1:09:11
  Yeah.
• 1:09:11
  And just their whole mantra of like, "Murder your thirst."
• 1:09:15
  What a genius idea, man.
• 1:09:18
  I mean, they're a really disruptive brand.
• 1:09:21
  Again, I respect the people out there that don't like the word "death" on a can
• 1:09:25
  that they're drinking water out of, or some of the weird stuff that they've done.
• 1:09:28
  But like, it's like I said earlier, I'm that guy, bro.
• 1:09:31
  I'll hang out with those people, right?
• 1:09:33
  I don't have to be a part of them, but like you can influence
• 1:09:36
  people that way as well too.
• 1:09:37
  Oh yeah.
• 1:09:37
  And ultimately, I do think to an extent too, like you
• 1:09:42
  should learn about these guys.
• 1:09:43
  I've gotten to know some of 'em over the time that I've spent,
• 1:09:45
  like trying to get them to sponsor us, and they're good people, dude.
• 1:09:49
  And I think at the core of what they're doing, they're misunderstood by the
• 1:09:53
  public, but they're a huge brand now because there's a lot of us out
• 1:09:57
  there that like, dude, every time I stop for water, I grab or at a gas
• 1:10:00
  station for what used to be a Dasani.
• 1:10:04
  Dasani is disgusting.
• 1:10:06
  A Smart Water.
• 1:10:08
  Whatever, you know.
• 1:10:08
  I just grab a Liquid Death now, dude.
• 1:10:10
  Yeah.
• 1:10:10
  I don't even think about it.
• 1:10:11
  I get two, as a matter of fact, every time, and I think a lot of people do
• 1:10:15
  that because they see less plastic.
• 1:10:17
  There's still plastic in those cans.
• 1:10:18
  For sure.
• 1:10:19
  There's a lining of plastic in it, but less plastic, you know.
• 1:10:22
  It's promoting something different.
• 1:10:24
  It's super, just, it's fun.
• 1:10:25
  You know, like, especially if you don't have kids going, "What's a
• 1:10:28
  Liquid Death?" You know, like, although my kids don't even question that.
• 1:10:32
  Oh yeah.
• 1:10:32
  They just go, "dad, the design on that is so dope.,"
• 1:10:35
  You know?
• 1:10:35
  I'm like, yeah, it's cool.
• 1:10:35
  Right.
• 1:10:37
  So yeah.
• 1:10:37
  Anyway, that's, I think those guys are doing it right.
• 1:10:39
  Yeah.
• 1:10:39
  No, no, for sure.
• 1:10:40
  My 6-year-old was asking me the other day if he could get Liquid Death, and it's
• 1:10:43
  always cute hearing it from your son.
• 1:10:45
  "Daddy, can I have Liquid Death?" I'm like, yeah, okay.
• 1:10:48
  Yeah, sure.
• 1:10:48
  That's fine.
• 1:10:49
  Yeah.
• 1:10:49
  Whatever.
• 1:10:50
  You can have Liquid Death, son.
• 1:10:52
  I got carded buying it the other day, by the way.
• 1:10:55
  Like.
• 1:10:55
  No way.
• 1:10:56
  Someone actually carded you?
• 1:10:57
  Swear to God.
• 1:10:57
  I was like, they go, "When's your birthday? I need your ID," and I was like.
• 1:11:00
  You do realize this is water?
• 1:11:01
  I just looked at 'em and was like, well, this is gonna be awkward for you.
• 1:11:04
  And I pulled my ID out and I handed it to 'em, and they were like, "Why?"
• 1:11:08
  And they rang it up, and it goes this water, and they're like, "Oh my God.
• 1:11:11
  Yeah.
• 1:11:12
  That is awkward."
• 1:11:13
  I am, I am in shock.
• 1:11:14
  But that's hilarious.
• 1:11:16
  That's funny, right?
• 1:11:16
  Yeah, yeah.
• 1:11:17
  But yeah, I mean, Liquid Death is just one of those brands
• 1:11:21
  you just can't get away from.
• 1:11:22
  Like, they're just so good at branding and marketing and their content is amazing.
• 1:11:28
  They partnered with ELF Cosmetics.
• 1:11:30
  Yes.
• 1:11:31
  Yes.
• 1:11:31
  To do like a whole makeup kit too.
• 1:11:33
  Like, they do the wildest things.
• 1:11:35
  I just love it.
• 1:11:36
  I just love it.
• 1:11:37
  So that's awesome.
• 1:11:39
  Well, good.
• 1:11:39
  Well, Dale, where can people connect with you?
• 1:11:41
  Where can people find out about you?
• 1:11:43
  Maybe even sign up for Totality if they're interested?
• 1:11:47
  Yeah, you can.
• 1:11:47
  Everything that we do, you can find on salesrebellion.com.
• 1:11:50
  We're doing a lot of changes to the website and whatnot and the
• 1:11:53
  brand, but Totality on there, a lot of our resources are on there.
• 1:11:58
  Our advisory programs, stuff that we talked about earlier.
• 1:12:02
  Really, I would recommend people to just Google my name.
• 1:12:04
  I know that sounds like kind of you know, vain or egotistical, but
• 1:12:09
  it's just kind of simple to find, and I have a lot of guest podcasts.
• 1:12:14
  I have a lot of just PR in general that I've done.
• 1:12:17
  So if people want to just like snag some free resources and learn a little bit more
• 1:12:20
  about our methodology, what we do, how we change the game, how we differentiate, how
• 1:12:25
  we lead as servants, you know, just Google my name or Google The Sales Rebellion.
• 1:12:29
  In general, our content feeds, our best ones are LinkedIn for sure.
• 1:12:32
  It's where most of our audience is, but you can find me on all the major channels.
• 1:12:36
  I'm a TikToker, not really, but sort of, I dabble in the Tiky Toky with
• 1:12:42
  my own videos, but wherever it's most accessible to the listeners, but
• 1:12:46
  ultimately, like salesrebellion.com is where you get all the resources, and
• 1:12:49
  then again, there's plenty of free stuff out there for people to come and just
• 1:12:52
  learn and start thinking like a rebel.
• 1:12:54
  Excellent.
• 1:12:55
  Well, Dale, thank you so much for coming on.
• 1:12:57
  Appreciate the time.
• 1:12:58
  It's been a pleasure.