Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / Yes, Sex Is A Proxy For Connection. But, Connection Shouldn't Be Your Central Obsession Either!

Transcript

Yes, Sex Is A Proxy For Connection. But, Connection Shouldn't Be Your Central Obsession Either! · The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten

• 0:05
  Hi everybody, and welcome to the Doctor Psych Mom Show.
• 0:08
  Today we're going to talk about how sex is a proxy for
• 0:12
  connection, but that does not mean that you can use that idea
• 0:16
  as a trump card to ignore. What's your issue with possibly
• 0:22
  over wanting connection? So we we will get to what I mean
• 0:27
  by that just as soon as I tell you to subscribe.
• 0:30
  Most recent subscriber episode was sulking when you don't get
• 0:33
  laid is as wrong as sulking when your kids don't listen.
• 0:36
  And that is true. And we discuss it in depth and
• 0:40
  it's a real good one to listen to together.
• 0:42
  If that's been a problem of the higher libido partner, usually
• 0:47
  the guy not always sulking when they don't get laid.
• 0:50
  OK, so let's get into this. So all right.
• 0:55
  I've explained to you guys ad nauseam that sex is a proxy
• 0:58
  variable for connection and that guys don't just want to, you
• 1:01
  know, get off. If they did, they would just
• 1:03
  masturbate. And most guys, that is avoidant
• 1:07
  guys, you know, often can use sex for just sex.
• 1:11
  And I talk about that in my podcast on sex drive and
• 1:14
  physical tough touch. Love language are not the same.
• 1:17
  But for the majority of healthy guys that are not really
• 1:21
  avoidant, then sex is how they connect and how they express
• 1:24
  love makes them feel closer and it makes them feel more
• 1:28
  connected. But who brings this to an
• 1:31
  extreme? A preoccupied attachment guy,
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  right? That guy is obsessed with the
• 1:36
  relationship, so now, and obsessed with sex.
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  He's obsessed with everything that has to do with his
• 1:43
  reassurance seeking vis a vis this relationship.
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  It's not the woman, Remember that.
• 1:49
  I hope that I've made that very clear in all my stuff.
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  That's why women don't respect preoccupied attachment, guys.
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  And I have a post on the podcast on that exact topic.
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  And there are two reasons. One, 'cause they're not doing
• 2:00
  anything else with all that time that they're obsessing about the
• 2:02
  relationship. And two, it's not about the
• 2:04
  woman. It's they know it's not.
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  They know. It's literally about anybody you
• 2:09
  would be with, and it probably was with other women before, and
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  if not, it would be with other women now if she, like you know,
• 2:15
  died or left you or something. Because it's about reassurance
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  seeking. The only kind of person that you
• 2:20
  could feel really want to be with you is a confident person,
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  because that's a person that makes choices.
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  That's not a person who thinks shit.
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  I better hold on to anybody who likes me because I think I'm so
• 2:32
  terrible. And if if I can somehow convince
• 2:35
  somebody to like me, then I better be hyper vigilant about
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  it and not let them out of my sight.
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  Because at any moment they could realize that I'm a piece of
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  shit, you know, and leave. So that's not about the person.
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  So if you're like a woman married to a preoccupied
• 2:49
  attachment man and it's like super smothering and you haven't
• 2:52
  really known what to say because he's like, what?
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  I just love you. Don't you love me?
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  You're the fucked up one. You may well be the avoidant
• 3:00
  one, probably are preoccupied goes with avoidant.
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  But the point is what he's doing isn't about you and that's what
• 3:07
  you're picking up on. It's just literally his self
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  frame. As I'm somebody who doesn't get
• 3:11
  love, I must try to pursue love at all costs, in any way that I
• 3:16
  can. So what I've seen happen a
• 3:19
  little bit in in some guys is that when they realize that, or
• 3:23
  I mean they've always realized that they feel closer after sex,
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  right? That's not news.
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  But when they realize that that's like a thing that I talk
• 3:30
  about or like, yes, sex is how I express love, then unfortunately
• 3:35
  some of them badger their wives with that.
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  They're like, Oh well, I want sex.
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  And sex means love. I want to connect.
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  So therefore we got to do it because it's not just about sex.
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  It's not just about getting off. So I'm going to basically change
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  the frame and I'm going to say it's about connection.
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  And then that's supposed to be the trump card because we're
• 3:53
  supposed to be connected constantly, but you're not
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  supposed to be connected constantly.
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  So we have to go back to the basics of attachment theory,
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  right? A healthy baby is parented by a
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  parent who gives them a secure base from which to explore.
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  So that means a secure base is is the mother cuddling and
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  giving comfort when the baby needs it.
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  But from that the baby also is allowed to explore.
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  The baby isn't always with the mother and when mothers try to
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  carry the baby around constantly, that's intrusive
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  parenting and can lead to avoid an attachment.
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  That's the other way to make avoid an attachment.
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  One way is ignoring the kids needs for comfort and the other
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  way is pretty much also ignoring the kids needs for comfort.
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  Because it's not about comfort but just like being all up in
• 4:41
  their face like all the time makes them want to get away from
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  you like no shit, right? So point being that if the guy
• 4:50
  now says that he wants to be connected romantically and this
• 4:54
  is a positive and then everything turns into that.
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  So let's say he's like, OK, fine, we don't have to have sex
• 5:00
  twice a week, but we have to talk about the relationship
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  twice a week. You know, you don't have to talk
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  about the relationship twice a week, even a relationship that's
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  in distress. Couples counseling is once a
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  week, you know, so you don't have to talk about the.
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  And certainly that's a lowball for a lot of people that I see
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  where the preoccupied attachment partner is initiating
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  discussions about the relationship constantly, just
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  constantly. Not a day almost goes by in
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  front of kids, not in front of kids.
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  Late at night, early in the morning.
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  Whatever text, not text, is verbal.
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  It doesn't matter. It's always there.
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  It's a it's a huge component, sucks the air up in the room.
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  So from that perspective, right, you cannot bludgeon somebody to
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  death with your desire to talk about a relationship, even if
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  you're saying that that makes you feel connected.
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  You also cannot bludgeon them to death with your desire for sex
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  just because now you say that sex means connection.
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  You know, you can't really bludgeon anybody to death with
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  any sort of topic or any sort of need, right?
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  So we see this a lot with the Excel spreadsheet stuff.
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  You know, the guys that are, like, tracking how often they
• 6:05
  have sex, like, what are you using it for?
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  You're not using it to, like, go through the greatest hits.
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  You're gonna use it as evidence to your wife that she's wrong,
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  you know, and that she's bad. So what if she followed you
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  around and like started recording stuff that you said,
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  I'm playing it back to you and being like, Oh yeah, that's when
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  you didn't sound very sensitive. You would really not like that,
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  right? Really not.
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  So the Excel spreadsheet thing is a is a form of that.
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  You're like recording somebody with the if that they don't want
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  you to record, you know that they're not thinking you're
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  doing it for that, and then you're going to use that against
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  them later on. There's this big thing many
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  years ago that was all over social media with this guy that
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  had this huge Excel spreadsheet. But now with the days of the
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  fitness trackers there, there was a book I read recently that
• 6:57
  I've recommended to a lot of people.
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  It's by Nathan Hill. It's called Wellness and it's a
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  novel about marriage and I highly recommend it.
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  But the guy used a sex tracker. And so and and since I've read
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  it, I've heard of other people doing that.
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  And before I read it, I heard of people doing that.
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  But it's getting more and more prevalent because everybody
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  tracks all their data all the time, obsessively, which is
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  certainly not great. But you know, plenty of people
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  want to like, hack their life and whatever, that's cool.
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  But if you're trying to hack your sex life, there's another
• 7:29
  human being involved, right? And so eventually you're going
• 7:32
  to use that data to beat them over the head with the idea that
• 7:34
  they're not doing it enough. And that is not going to work
• 7:39
  except very short term, possibly to get you laid another time,
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  'cause they just want to get out of the conversation.
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  And then it kind of moves into the idea of the marital
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  coercion, of course, saying that you're not happy with your sex
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  life. As I've said over and over, it's
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  not marital coercion. I have a whole podcast about
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  what is and isn't, So you should look that up.
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  But when you bludgeon somebody with data and guilt trip them
• 8:01
  and create basically a PowerPoint about why they suck
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  as a sexual partner, that that's that's coercive.
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  Like, that's not cool. So the point is here, yes, sex
• 8:11
  is is is a form of connection. Date nights are also a form of
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  connection. If your wife wanted three date
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  nights a week, you'd be like, what?
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  Are you crazy? How are we going to do that?
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  You know, like, you know that amount of money that that would
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  be. Do you know the amount of time
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  that that would be? That would not seem reasonable
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  to you, you know. And for somebody that's
• 8:29
  exhausted with multiple small kids, sex three times a week may
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  not seem reasonable to them. And it especially is not going
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  to go over if you say that it's not about sex at all, but about
• 8:40
  connection. So therefore they're not just
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  disappointing you in the sexual realm, but in the emotional
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  realm as well. So at this point you may say,
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  but what about if I really don't feel close?
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  Great, You don't feel close. Go to couples counseling.
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  Try to work, or go to individual counseling.
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  Work on your own part of it. Read my thing about six ways for
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  men to work on preoccupied attachment.
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  That would be a good place to start.
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  The the The thing that a lot of guys are missing is that when
• 9:07
  guys are busy and active and happy, then they don't actually
• 9:11
  think that much about how many times they had sex this week.
• 9:15
  You know, they don't think about if it was two or three or one.
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  Yes, they always know the number because they're guys.
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  Mostly. They know the number if they're
• 9:24
  normal, higher libido guys, but they don't obsess about it.
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  So the point is, is something is deeply wrong if this has become
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  the the focus, the the centerpiece of your entire life
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  and you know what else is wrong. If the marriage is the
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  centerpiece of your entire life, that's also wrong.
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  You know, and and that is true, you know.
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  It's just like how the man doesn't want the children to be.
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  The entire reason that the woman does every single thing she does
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  and obsesses about it, well, that's how she feels about her
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  preoccupied attachment husband and the marriage.
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  So and often she becomes even more child centered in
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  opposition to what she you know, it's a counterbalance which she
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  perceives as his extreme self centeredness and self indulgence
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  by consistently focusing on only the sexual and romantic
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  connection versus the kids. So it actually drives her to be
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  more child centered to make up for what she perceives as him
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  not being child centered enough. Now, of course, women think
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  about the kids all the time, the way that men think about sex all
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  the time in the back burner, the back of their mind, and
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  sometimes at the front of their mind when they're doing
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  something. But if a woman, like, was not
• 10:30
  able to work because she was so obsessed about her kids, if I
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  wasn't able to get through a session paying attention to my
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  clients because I was so into thinking about what my children
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  were doing at school, that would be a problem, right?
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  That would be an obsession. Even though it's totally normal
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  for me to prioritize the children, right, In in any way
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  that I would have to pick, Right.
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  So. So if my child had a play, I
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  wouldn't book a client. Oh, no kidding.
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  I'm going to the play, right? But so so that's a choice point.
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  But if I were unable to engage in normal life activities
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  because I was so obsessed with thinking about the children and
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  how to optimize my relationship with the children and whether
• 11:08
  the children are are happy or not happy or this or that, then
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  that would be what many men may recognize in my description as
• 11:15
  extreme child related anxiety. And I have posts about that,
• 11:19
  about how to deal with your It's literally how to deal with your
• 11:21
  partner's child related anxiety and five reasons moms can't
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  recognize their anxiety. I think that's another post so
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  that you don't want to be that. But for the relationship as a
• 11:34
  man, you don't want to be the guy that's sitting there at a
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  work meeting thinking about whether he's going to have sex
• 11:40
  three times this week or two times this week.
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  And it's just like not if you should get another job, then you
• 11:45
  should think deeply about if this career is right for you.
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  You know, I'm not saying you can't Daydream.
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  Of course you can Daydream. But I talked to some people that
• 11:53
  are obsessed. You know, they're obsessed.
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  They think about this all the time.
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  They think about it more than the kids.
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  They think about it more than anything, and they think about
• 12:01
  it more than they think about their own self actualization as
• 12:04
  well. And it's always there's the
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  example about why does it work for preoccupied attachment men,
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  Not avoidant men, who are the majority of of insecurely
• 12:13
  attached men, but preoccupied attachment men.
• 12:16
  Why does it work for them to go to the gym?
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  Why is their wife happier? It's not anything related to
• 12:20
  their body. It's 'cause they're finally
• 12:21
  doing something that doesn't involve her and mooning around
• 12:24
  her and thinking about her, so it makes her respect them more.
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  And also, he's literally out of the house, thank God, right?
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  Because he's always around and whenever he's around, he can
• 12:34
  start a damn conversation about the relationship at any moment,
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  you know? And and that is how it feels to
• 12:40
  the partner of somebody who is obsessed with the relationship.
• 12:43
  So the point here is the TLDR is that sex is a proxy for
• 12:47
  connection, for sure. And I have a million podcasts on
• 12:51
  how the title Sex is not about sex, 'cause it's not.
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  But if you're obsessed with the emotional connection piece,
• 12:59
  that's also not good, you know? So first of all, you can't say,
• 13:03
  Oh yeah, I have to have sex every day because guess what,
• 13:05
  it's emotional connection. That's the only way I do
• 13:07
  emotional connection. That's like cheating.
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  That's like bullshit, you know? That's like lying, because
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  people can get emotional connection in myriad ways.
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  But second of all it's it's like there there shouldn't be like
• 13:21
  like an hour of extensive emotional connection every day
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  anyway in like the life of a of a busy couple.
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  How like how would that even work.
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  Sure date night. I love the idea of date night.
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  I I promulgate that you know constantly.
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  But the idea of that there constantly has to be a focus on
• 13:41
  the relationship that does not allow any partner to focus on
• 13:44
  other things. The relationship cannot be the
• 13:47
  only thing That's why couples counseling so good because I can
• 13:50
  say OK can you guys not talk about this till next time And
• 13:53
  sometimes people can and it's a wonderful skill they learn Oh my
• 13:56
  God. We talked about it on Thursday.
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  We're not going to talk about it till next Thursday.
• 14:00
  We can to do that. Holy shit.
• 14:02
  Imagine it's like the world opens up.
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  Imagine all the things we could do if we didn't have to talk
• 14:07
  about this relationship 3 hours a day, you know?
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  And so if you are caught in a dynamic like that, it could be
• 14:13
  very, very useful to get into counselling.
• 14:15
  Or and or of course you should get into counselling.
• 14:18
  But you know, if you can't read up all my stuff on attachment, I
• 14:22
  really try to understand that you got to work on you, you,
• 14:26
  you, you, you got to figure out what in your family of origin
• 14:29
  made you so hyper vigilant about a loved one leaving you or or
• 14:34
  withdrawing love or withdrawing attention.
• 14:36
  That's very, very key. All right.
• 14:38
  I hope you guys enjoyed this and I will talk to y'all soon.
• 14:41
  Please subscribe. Bye guys.