Latest / The Pulse of Politics / EP#13 - From Political Signals to Business Action with Laura Pistemaa
Transcript
- speaker-0: Politics moves faster than ever, and uncertainty is the new normal. Welcome to The Pulse of Politics, the podcast about public affairs and how to navigate an unpredictable world. Each episode brings you real cases, best practices, and a look at how AI is reshaping policy work. Let's get started. Here's your host, Sylvan. Laura, a very well welcome to the Pulse of Politics podcast. It's a pleasure to have you as our guest today. speaker-1: Thank you for asking me and greetings from Finland. speaker-0: Very, very warm welcome to the Finnish North. You are the head of public affairs at Lidl Up in Finland, and you're also a former parliamentary assistant at the Finnish parliament. So you've basically sat on both sides, inside the parliament, but now also inside a big retailer. What did each of those moves do? Teach you how influence actually works in Finland because you see it from inside the political system and from inside the companies that need access to it. speaker-1: Yeah, I wouldn't say that it's on both sides. we are in the same table with the same goals, but we just have a different seat, I think. but of course Parliament has teach me like the mechanics, how the politics work, when do you what is the right sign to have an influence and also how much there is on parliamentarians' plate. they are pretty overwhelmed and I know that not every single thing is so important for them as it is it for me for example. And the retail has taught me more like the impact, how the regulation actually hits the business and also the consumers. but I think that my biggest takeaway is that real influence in Finland at least isn't about secret handshakes. And this is more business as usual. As you can see from House of Cards, we are not in those scenes. And I think that it's just being the person who brings to like reliable fact based solutions to the table. And I think that that is the biggest biggest thing that I now understand. speaker-0: I really like that you say we sit on the same table, that it's really a a collaborative approach. And w when you actually moved, you worked for a Finnish retailer before you then moved to Lidl, a German multinational challenger. So you had a move within the same industry. Did the public affairs logic feel fundamentally different between the two companies or is Retail politics, just retail politics, no matter where you work and where you bring in your your energy and your power. speaker-1: The bottom line, retail politics is retail politics in a sense that we all care about the same things that we want to serve the customer and the consumers, and we also want to operate in a functional market. But of course, because I'm first in my role at Lidl, this is a whole lot different job, of course, because you have to build everything, everything from the scratch. And you have to build the bridges, you have to set up the agenda. So I have said that I have been in public affairs professional for a long time now, but this job is totally different. And and of course because we are challenger in Finland, we don't get the seat at the table, as a like, you know, default, but we have to bring our own chair. But that being said, I have to say that the welcome for Lidl public affairs has been remarkable and the decision makers actually care about what do we have to say and they want to learn our operations and our perspective and that has been like something that I wouldn't have imagined and of course that makes my job really easy. speaker-0: Love that. And I wonder with with your experience in the Finnish parliament, you said you sit on the same table, obviously, but it sounds from thinking about former guests we had on the podcast, many have or at least had at one point a connection to the actual political work where they were a member of the parliament, they worked in the parliament or any kind of things, or are even involved with political parties until today. Do you think that this is a strong necessary prerequisite to work in public affairs that you have seen politics from the inside first through political work in in one way or the other? speaker-1: Well, in my opinion, yes. because you can't learn how the politics operate and how the politic works from school books, you know. You have to the people also, you have to know the dynamics between the parties and within the parties. And I think that it gives you like great advantage. but of course I know really, really professional public affairs people in Finland that don't have a strong background in politics, actual into parliament or ministries or something like that. But but they have gathered the information and everything from from from seeing it outside. But I think that it it gives you great advantage. speaker-0: It it certainly helps. It doesn't hurt if you have that experience to bring to the table. Yeah. So now we also want to learn from you how you actually do public affairs up north in beautiful Finland. So the the first thing I want to learn from you is how you spot and also prioritize issues. Do you have any sort of early warning system in place? Like how do you catch a regulatory signal before it becomes a crisis or or hurts your business even. How how do you work with early signals and create your own early warning systems around that? speaker-1: My early warning system is fifty percent data and fifty percent corridors. I would say like keeping my ears open, talking to people, and of course we also have the advantage that I have like the European footprint one message away that I can I can send out a message to my colleagues and ask that what is happening because usually in Finland If you see something in Central Europe happening right now, it will come to Finland in a year or two or five or ten years. And and that is like a crystal ball for me that I can I can look look it up or chat for my colleagues and see what is happening. But usually it's just that I just put the like silent signals that something is racing and I'm just trying to think that how big issue this is for us and And then monitor it more if if I see something rising up. speaker-0: I love that. And when you say you look at other countries, is it mainly you look at Germany, for example, at the national level in Germany, what is happening there? And then you anticipate, okay, I see that development. This might also come to Finland in a few years, or is it more also the European level that you focus on and say, Well, it's being discussed there and it will also impact us directly? What is the level that you focus most on? speaker-1: mostly on European level and what is happening in Brussels and it's so complicated. Of course you is a big big big big thing that many things are raising up there. And I can't monitor everything but of course we have our our our colleagues that we all do this together. But I would say that more or less the European level and not like individual countries but of course I also hear that hey this is happening in in Italy or Spain or Hungary. And yeah, yeah, yeah, this might come come to us also. And then I hear from politicians of course that they have had discussions with some country colleagues or something like that. And then I then I just know that yeah, yeah, now I have to keep eye on this or keep my ears open. speaker-0: And then you see the signals get stronger and stronger in that sense. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. And one thing I'm I'm very interested in is there are so many things happening all over the world, but also all over Europe. So even within Finland, I assume, that there's so much stuff that you could be tracking, that you could focus your time and energy on, but at the same time you have some limited resources. You can't fight every battle that you could potentially engage with. So how do you decide What to engage on and what to let pass. speaker-1: if you ask my bosses, I choose to fight every battle and I should prioritize more. but in real reality it's a team sport. of course I have really great colleagues here in Finland and I always say that I know a bit of everything, but actually nothing from anything. my colleagues are the specialists on different issues like energy, or whatever, sustainability or something like that. And of course I need to talk and see how big issue this is for us. And I think that I filter everything through a question that does this affect on the consumer grocery pack and how does it like like limit our operations and our freedom and license to trail, you know? And if it's like yes this is a big thing for consumers and this is big thing for us to do our business, then it's it's something that we need to keep eye on and also advocate more. But but if it's not that big of a deal and even my colleagues don't understand like yeah this is a big issue, then I know that yeah, now I can leave this aside and just monitor what is happening and so on. But but yeah, I think that that is the biggest issue that how does this affect the consumer and how does this limit our operations and license to drill? speaker-0: That makes a ton of sense. And I wonder Lidl is so globally active. You you're in more than 30 countries, I think 32, 33, something like that, if not even more. And to what extent does that also help you, you know, to find the right sparring partners maybe in a different country, or just by the sheer size of of Lidl all around the world, that you have different resources that let's say a national champion in just one country cannot really, compare with. speaker-1: Well, usually if you just open your mouth and say that hey this is happening in Finland, have you had something similar experiences? And I have found even interesting country partners in this that hey this is happening actually this or this legislation actually was proposed in for example in Hungary and and of course we can have the sparring partners even though the like the political systems are of course different and the climate is different and the countries are different. But still basically the like basic arguments that we we we are c talking on behalf of consumer. And those those are are good in every country, you know, and they they work. the same arguments actually and and as I said, There are lot of national legislations going on. Of course, for example, the EU legislation, we implemented in countries. That is something that I think that is also something that I can give to politicians, for example, that I can give the European foot footprint and I can tell you that hey, this is happening in here, here, here. And and that is also valuable for our decision makers that I can give overview of the whole Europe. Or even call up in speaker-0: Exactly. That that's a huge unique strength that you have right there. Talking about leadership, when you have identified a topic that you say, Okay, I I do wanna engage in that fight, I wanna interact on on that level. How do you get the leadership to care and to also act? Because sometimes you see it, you understand why it matters to little in in Finland specifically, but then you also probably need someone to engage or some form of resources from leadership, how do you convince them that it's worth to engage? speaker-1: Well, my superpower is lobbying. So I I would say I'm in a lucky situation because my colleagues are so great and our our management team is really involved and understands the importance of public affairs. but when it comes to individual cases, I would say that and I know from Parliament that this is also for parliamentarians, that it's it's like If if you take let's say one page, it's the maximum. If you can't explain thing when you go from little backup to checkout counter, and if you can't explain that in between, then it's too complicated. so my superpower is to translate politics to business and business to politics, of course. And but I think that When you have an issue, you ask three questions. What is it? why should we care? And what action do I need from you right now? Like, you know, even though you go to parliamentarian or you go to your colleague and these are the questions that I want to I I want to ask and I want I I need answers to speaker-0: It it it sounds very simple, but it's it's hard to do that in practice, I would argue, because you really need that translation between politics and business as you just described. One of the things that I often hear people say is, I I I'm working in public affairs, but then my my CEO comes, for example, and says, Well, I understand we need public affairs, but what's the return on that investment? It's very difficult to measure that. So what is your honest answer when leadership asks you? What all this engagement in public affairs is actually delivering for the company. speaker-1: This is my favorite topic when you talk about public affairs because I'm I'm so number driven and KPI person, you know? And this is something that I've also like to discuss also with other public affairs professionals and think about it. I think that I do it like on a three tracks. like and I think about it on a three tracks. it's Protecting. Of course we are public race is on the one side we are a insurance policy, you know. we are the only team that is doing its job properly properly if we don't get it to into headlines. and if nothing happens and if the house doesn't burn down, then we are doing our job properly in a in one way. But then there's also promoting of course we want to bring better services for the customer and we have to think about that how fast can we adapt if if we are offered some new business area or something like that. So that is like promoting and that is that is maybe a bit easier to measure also because you can say that hey, we can enter this market for example, or new business area I mean. And of course that is much more easier to measure even in Euros. But of course it's also the license to operate. How is our voice heard? Do we actually need to shout to get our voice voice heard? Or are we being asked that? How little sees this and this issue? So sort of I think these three issues are the ones that I measure in my in my head right now but Perhaps in the future with more like measurable way in a paper, but but I think so. But yeah. speaker-0: I really like the concept because it it again, it makes a lot of sense. But the first one, for example, you mentioned, it's a bit like with an insurance. When nothing happens after ten years of nothing happened, which is great, then you did a fantastic job. But then I could also see a CEO come and say, Well, why do we even need public affairs? Nothing ever happened. Of course, that's the exact reason why you exist and why you did a fantastic job, if that's the case. But at the same time, it's then difficult to measure that, right? I I always struggle a bit that how can you make it measurable in in terms of Euros in your case, that the CEO can go and say, we invest amount X, we get return Y out of it. Of course it's a good investment. We should keep going. And intuitively they probably have that feeling with you explaining to them and showing all the the success cases. But it's very difficult sometimes to attribute a euro amount. To that investment or the to the return, I feel. speaker-1: Yeah, and I think also when it comes to leg legislation that that we have to of course we are compliant and we are more than compliant alwa always, but if you see an early states that hey this is coming and even though you don't want to influence it in any way, but you just have to like of the f follow follow the law and and then if you can give for example two years ahead. that hey this is coming. So it gives the company also time to adapt more than if we wouldn't have public affairs then we would hear it from at the stage when the law is already like given and early well early warning systems also in this case. speaker-0: Yeah, that I think that's something I learned from talking to very different public affairs professionals. It's it's not so much that that something is coming, but it's crucial that as soon as possible, when the signals get more more concrete. So you have more time until you need to act until a law passes, because the the head start that you have with more time available, that's where you have actions you can take and more flexibility to generate the best outcome. So that's a really crucial thing that you just mentioned there. Then the third point you said was about is is little being asked, for example, by by politicians, maybe by NGOs or trade associations, etc. Are we an important player? So as a foreign-owned retailer in a market usually dominated by the local, you know, cooperatives or local companies, What is your actual standing right now in those political conversations? Do decision makers take Lidl's voice seriously? Do they proactively reach out to you? Or is it still Hey, we have to fight that we show we're also here, that we're also an important player? What is the current standing for Lidl in Finland? speaker-1: think that as I mentioned the doors are open for me and for little and people have been saying that it's really good that we are being more vocal on where we stand and we want to be more open that how we how we operate and so on and the and the welcome has been remarkable I would say. And of course we repres represent a huge portion of Finnish consumer grocery packs and we o employ thousands of people in Finland and we are investing in Finland. we are the fifteenth biggest employer in Finland, so of course we are taken really seriously. And when we speak, I think that it's it's clear that when we speak we speak also With the voice of Finnish consumer. Finnish consumer wants choice. He or she wants quality and affordable prices. And that is deeply like Finnish interest. And this decision makers also request that we bring like sort of different angles to the table. we are w really concentrated market hine here in Finland and there are not so many players as in all the other countries. so I think that we are being heard and our voice is is quite quite big and we have the influence if we want to. speaker-0: U usually you can also be very welcome because you bring competition to the local players and usually competition can be a very good thing, right? They have to then improve their services and in the end the consumer gets better service or cheaper prices or whatsoever. So I think it's a it's a very good thing from a Finnish perspective to have you also in the same arena playing the game. speaker-1: Yeah, I think that that is the biggest message for me right now. that that we are bringing the competition to the table and we are being being the third biggest player here in Finland and bringing our voice heard. speaker-0: That's perfect. And when you actually then work and engage on a specific issue in in on the political arena, there are many different ways that you can approach it, right? You could go directly to ministers and MPs, you could work and approach the same topic through trade associations or build a broader coalition with different stakeholders that are tied to a specific issue that you want to engage on. How do you choose between those different access levels for a given issue? I know it probably very much depends on the issue that you're battling and tackling, but do you have a preferred approach or something that gives you better results over the other approach? speaker-1: do you mean like like trade associations and so on or speaker-0: Exactly. So do you prefer to go directly to the ministers and MPs or do you prefer to first build something over trade associations or even media coverage or something like that? speaker-1: Yeah, I think it's always a mix and it depends of course on the issue as you said. I think that it's if it's in our priority list really high and it's urgent, then we go straight ourselves and we use and we cooperate with the trade associations and do even public position positioning. And I think that Trade associations and associations and federations and different organizations here in Finland, they are really good in monitoring and doing the heavy lifting. They have the expertise on the actual legislational issues. But when it comes to that, we want to more give concrete examples how the business works, then that is our own job. And if we have, for example, when it comes to some business operations where we are different from the like we operate in different ways of n compared to others, then I think that we need to bring our own own thing to the table, you know, like explain that little works like this and this is how we in what ways we differ from the others and and yeah so If it comes the more business the more it's more our own. But when it comes to legislation then the associations and federations they are golden. speaker-0: Makes sense. Yeah, makes sense. There's one specific example that we can pick out. I think Finland's alcohol liberalization battle has been one of the most defining retail policy fights. there has been an eight percent ABV limit that passed in twenty twenty four. Wine liberalization is probably next. And maybe you can tell us a bit more how little actually engaged in that process and what worked and maybe what didn't work, contrary to what you were thinking at the beginning. So it would be great to to hear a bit on on that specific example, what you did and how you engaged on that process. speaker-1: Well the eight percent wines or grape products or how to how do we say in Finland, they came when I wasn't part of Lidl. so I can tell you more more on that. But I would say that when it comes to wine liberalization, this is actually my biggest issue, also personally because this is something that I I've been saying that I won't I don't quit working. before we have wines in stores. So that is like my big goal. And but I I would say that we advocate things that consumers want. And our message has always been clear that trust the Finnish consumer. And I would say that for example when the 8% why wines came to the stores, the sky didn't fall. And the alcohol consumption is still decreasing and and people we we should we should trust the consumer. And and I hope that at some point we get the liberalisation also for actual actual good wines, I would say, like actual white wines and red wines. the eight percent wines, they are they're good but they are not the same products and this is something that is is something that we are struggling right now here in Finland. speaker-0: I I like that you make that also your personal mission to to really succeed there. I I think that's a very strong statement. Super cool. Then another thing that we also hear from many other countries is a transparency register. There is a new Finnish transparency register that now publicly records who lobbies whom. And there are always a lot of pros and cons about that. So has that changed how you plan and document your contacts with parliament and ministries or how politicians respond to you because now there's more transparency in that process, or did it not really change anything at all? It just increased the the bureaucratic part of your job? speaker-1: answer that it didn't change anything. Of course it's one process more, but I think that it's it's really good. And I see that it gives the people the actual like that we are open, every company is open to open up what how they do public affairs, what is their goal, who they are meeting, and this hasn't raised any big headlines in Finland, you know, and because this was my I was working in the parliament when this was drafted, this law, and my biggest concern was because in Finland that that is our superpower that we are we are having conversations between the decision makers and the companies and we have really open dialogue. And I was worried that it would it would change that. that the decision makers wouldn't that much cooperate with the companies and hear the thoughts like because they are afraid that they are being in the headlines. But I think that it this is my opinion that it hasn't changed anything. We are just being more open and it's it's really cool that that we can be this open in Finland and it also changes the people's view on public affairs. that we are not in closed cabinets or anything like that, but we are having an open dialogue with the decision makers and between companies and organizations. And I think that this has done a good thing for Finnish public affairs. speaker-0: That's great. It also really speaks for your processes and and your culture in Finland. Would you recommend other countries to also adapt the transparency register as well? Do you think that overall this would be a good thing to to have and to implement for any country out there? speaker-1: Well, I can't give any suggestions to other countries. I know that this works in Finland and I most definitely encourage people to look look it up and see how this goes in Finland and if it works in other countries, that's great. but I I I won't make any suggestions here. speaker-0: Fair enough. Fair enough. We talked about the transparency register, and in there you also see what the other retailers in Finland are doing. And I wonder when does it make sense for you to align on a shared retail interest, maybe a bigger topic that really directly affects all retailers doing business in Finland? And when does the competitive dynamic, if I may call it that way, mean that you're better off? going and and and lobbying and and working on a topic or an issue alone by yourself. speaker-1: Of course we compete at the checkout counter every day. But when it comes to legislation, I think that we share the same goal. we want the license to operate and we want a free market and it doesn't matter whether it's it's about security, logistics, energy, general market like predictability. We share the same goal. We want functional market. And of course we operate in the same, for example, associations and federations and unions and so on. And we we cooperate in those organizations. but of course we have our own. As I said, we have to explain how how our operations work. And of course we have different operations, but we share the same goals. This was a long answer and really political one, I think, but but that is the main speaker-0: I think it's perfect. Yeah. It it makes a lot of sense. And in in that sense, I I wonder about the role of trade associations. We already briefly touched upon that topic, but overall the trade associations, where you also obviously are in the same boat as other retailers, your competitors at the checkout point, are trade associations really useful as a vehicle? They really help you to get stuff done and move the needle, or is it more of Well, it's just the lowest form of common denominator to find a compromise across all the companies in that space. How do you look at trade associations in your daily work? speaker-1: They are total professionals and five out of five people there working on our industry and I would say that they are our most valuable players when it comes to public affairs. when it comes to monitoring, for example, complex and variable like legislations or when you go in detail in legislation, they are the ones that I turn to. they do incredible job and I genuinely consider then them as my like closest allies and and we do really good cooperation with them and I hope that we can also give something in return that we can we can give the like how this actual how this legislation is affecting our operations and in like concrete examples because they need them because they are not in our stores actually and they are not working in the stores so they need the concrete examples from us and that is our job and I hope that we are also doing doing great job with that. speaker-0: That sounds amazing. So a really good collaboration happening right there. Now that we understand a bit more how you work and and how your process looks like, one thing we haven't talked about yet, and I'm very curious about your answer because you said you're very data driven. How do you use AI in all your daily work and the processes and the workflows that you just described to us before? How does AI fit into that picture? speaker-1: I think that I'm I'm still learning. I want to learn more. And I would say that it's my tireless junior researcher right now. because I have so much on my plate and I don't have time to for example read through every legislation, for example, there are many hundred pages, and I I use it quite low level still. And I want to learn more. but for example, like if you have a big legislation, you can summarize it in seconds. And of course, because we we work in many languages, we are we speak Finnish and Swedish here in Finland, but I work in English and we also have something in German. So it's also really good when you like do the change change language between and explain it in that in that language I don't only mean like translating but also how to how different languages work and because languages and cultures are pretty bit different and a lot of dip different and but I still think that AI brings really much really good things but It doesn't like always you need to judge yourself for example the text and and the political instinct is something that AI I I will always be better in that than AI. But of course it's it's really good tool for us to use and I really hope to learn more. speaker-0: I think you just describe the perfect use case because with your experience, that judgment that you have built over your career, that is something that is very hard to replace because it's very specific knowledge that is also probably combined with a a strong gut feeling based on experience that AI cannot really replace, but it can make you more efficient to summarize lots of data, etc. So you can actually work maybe in smaller teams and you can get more done. But then you you you bundle that with your experience and your judgment and the efficiency of AI and you have a a very, very strong team from my perspective. I think that is a a winning combination, if I can call it that way. speaker-1: Yeah, yeah, of course and public affairs is people from people to people, Nobody nob AI won't have these networks in Finland. Like my my networks are mine and AI can never replace them. But it is useful tool for many cases. But people is people. speaker-0: That's true. And people, the Finnish people, they actually have something exciting coming up. You have elections in April twenty twenty seven. So in just a few months from now, what do you expect will happen? And maybe also what do you hope will happen? What do you hope for? speaker-1: Well I have been living and breathing politics for over twenty years now. And I have to say that elections are the most exciting times and the best days of of people's lives. I don't know if everybody shares my my views. but of course this is like when you are a political nerd, you know, this is this is the time to be alert. And of course We have issues in Finland and we are in quite a difficult like economical state right now. And and I hope that the future that people are voting, of course. I'm always hoping for bigger rates on voting, but I hope also that we can like before the elections we can go on conversations that brings more like future hope for people and and hey you are having the job also tomorrow and I I hope that we are having positive and optimistic campaigns here because I think that o of course media also have one place but also politicians are value leaders and also our like company leaders are value leaders. And we have to bring people optimistic view on Finnish future. And I hope that we can we can keep the like the level of the conversation is being optimistic. And but of course when the election day comes and we will see and we will form the government here and we will see what the next four years will bring for us and that is of course when the government program comes out that is like the birthday party for every public affairs people because then we do our own plan for the next four years, you know. speaker-0: Makes sense. Well, I I love that optimism. I think that's very important and we can definitely use more of that in the world these days. Yep. Laura, to wrap up the conversation, I also have some rapid fire questions for you. I give you a short question or different options to choose from, and you have to answer ideally in one sentence. Are you ready? speaker-1: Yes. speaker-0: What do you prefer direct engagement or coalition? Which one moves the needle more in Finland? speaker-1: coalition. cooperation is always the key in Finland and the more unexpected or unusual coalition is formed, it is the better, you know? speaker-0: Amazing. What is the biggest misconception that politicians have about Lidl in Finland? speaker-1: I think that people are most surprised our domestic rate. From our assertment, sixty percent is sourced locally and from Finland and from Finnish suppliers and local farmers and we are deeply rooted in Finland. of course we are multinational company but little Finland is operates in Finland. speaker-0: That's very impressive. What's one thing that you would do differently if you were starting the little public affairs function from scratch again today? speaker-1: Well, I would have bought a faster pair of sneakers, I think. but but I hope that I have I've done good job as I builded this from scratch last year. speaker-0: Absolutely. And a parliamentary background or a business background, which one makes a better public affairs professional in Finland? speaker-1: Mix also parliament teaches you how, but business teaches you why. speaker-0: And that's why you need that translation. So you need both both views on the same issue. Yep. Amazing. Laura, that was the perfect way to end this conversation. It has been a pleasure. I have to admit, it was not easy after Finland beat Switzerland in the ice hockey World Cup today, or this year better said. But I really enjoyed the conversation with you and thank you so much for your amazing insights and and valuable discussion. Thank you very much. speaker-1: Thank you so much. speaker-0: You've been listening to The Pulse of Politics, a Delos podcast about navigating uncertainty in public affairs. For more insights, visit Delosanalytica.com.