Latest / The Daily Writer / Using Your Books to Grow Your Training & Consulting Business | Steve Woodruff

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Using Your Books to Grow Your Training & Consulting Business | Steve Woodruff · The Daily Writer

• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Hey friends, welcome back to the Profitable Writer Podcast.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: If you're new here, my name is Kent Sanders.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm an author and ghostwriter, and this is the show that helps you grow your impact and income as a writer.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for joining me for this episode of our Summer Expert Series.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: If you write nonfiction, I'm sure you're familiar with the idea that your book can be the first step that your reader takes with you, but not the last step.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Although many people certainly make a great living selling lots of books, there are also a lot of consultants, speakers, and trainers who make the bulk of their living from those offerings.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: And their book is just the first step in their reader's journey with them.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: My guest today is Steve Woodruff, and this conversation is all about helping you get a glimpse into his business as a consultant and how his books especially have been a great entry point for the people who hire him.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: Let me tell you a bit about Steve.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: Steve's goal is to help people flip the script on the corporate status quo by finding their focus and making themselves clear.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: He believes that with the right tactics, anyone can win at work through better communication.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: He wrote his first book, Clarity Wins, Get Heard, Get Referred, to teach people how to rise above the noise and get referred.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: In his second book, The Point, How to Win with Clarity Fueled Conversations, he trains people to use this clarity-fueled formula backed by practical science to communicate with clarity and focus.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: Steve's career spans three decades, progressing from a sales and marketing director to a trusted consultant for corporate clients such as Pfizer and many others.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: Today he gets to focus full-time on helping others discern, articulate, and maximize their own strengths as an author, speaker, facilitator, and trainer.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: Steve enjoys spending time with his wife, Sandy, who is a lifelong educator, and sharing his love of the great outdoors and photography with his family.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: In today's conversation, Steve gives us the inside scoop on his role that his books play in his larger business success.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: You'll learn why he wrote them and why he chose the particular publishing pathways he did, how his books build the other parts of his business, how he markets them to the people who might hire him, and his advice for nonfiction authors who want to use their books to grow their speaking, training, consulting, and related services.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: Now, just as a quick side note, most of the business books that I ghostwrite are intended to do the exact thing that Steve talks about.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: In other words, they act as a gateway that leads to more profitable parts of their business.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're a business author or you ghostwrite books for business authors, I think you're going to learn a lot from Steve's approach and also from this conversation.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: Make sure to check out Steve's books and other offerings at his site, which is stevewoodruff.com.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: And with that, here's our conversation.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: Steve, it's great to have you back on the podcast, which is now called the Profitable Writer Podcast.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: Used to be called the Daily Writer Podcast.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know if you're actually like if this is your first appearance on this show or this is your second appearance on this show, because it's a different show.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, it was on the the bankrupt writer uh podcast.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but that showed so yeah.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: There there should be a podcast called that, the struggling, the struggling frustrated writer, since that seems to be a common theme sometimes.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was on your prior prod podcast.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: So the the uh first book I wrote was in 2018.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: So that was back in those days.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so it's probably 2018, 2019 where we we talked the first time.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: And uh here we are in 2024.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but uh man, you still you still look handsome.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: So this is great.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: Still look 29, huh?
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I didn't say that.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: You are the king of clarity, so you know you have a way of kind of cutting through the cutting through the noise.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: I try to.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and I'm I'm thrilled to have you back on the show because uh I I love your books, I love your business.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think communication is such a critical, of course, as a writer, I'm gonna say that, but communication is such a critical foundation for relationships and business and the way that we live that we live life.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: So excited to have you on the show today to talk about uh your books and your business and all the cool things.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: So are you ready to dive in?
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: Communication has become just over decades has become my passion through marketing and selling and consulting and training.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: And uh one of the things I I tend to open up with clients with, I say, um, how much of your day, percentage-wise, is spent communicating or preparing to communicate?
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm mostly dealing with knowledge workers, right?
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's like 75 to 95 percent of our day is spent with emails, presenting, meetings, coaching sessions, whatever, like this vast amount of time.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and we don't devote training dollars and training time to teaching people to be great communicators, but that's what we're doing.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: Doesn't matter what industry we're in, doesn't matter what role we're in, doesn't matter what level we're in, we're communicating all the time.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, so that's one reason why I've written the books I've written is that I think there are principles and practices of clear communication that are universal.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody can use.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and everybody needs to because you know it's a noisy, noisy world, as we all know.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: I like the fact that you have written your books in an in a style that's really accessible.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: They're story-driven, they're simple, there's a lot of pictures, which I like.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: So they are very clear, you know, because sometimes you'll come across books on speaking or writing or communication that are not very clear and they're not very interesting to read.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I love how your books are a great example of the exact thing that you're trying to teach.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's it's kind of a meta idea, I guess, but I think it's wonderful.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I write under that burden that I have to be clear because that's what I'm writing about.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so one of the reasons why I have a very rigorous editor is he doesn't let me get away with nothing on being inconsistent, unclear, or wordy.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and as I as I say often in my workshops, the biggest enemy to clarity is TMI, too much information.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: And most books are too long, most presentations are too bulky, most meetings are are diffuse and poorly defined.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I think if we can teach people how to get to the point and be distilled and brief and vivid, we are way ahead of the game.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd love to dive into in this conversation the way that your books are a foundation for some of your other income generating activities in your business.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: Before we do that, though, can you give us kind of an overview of what are the main income generating activities in your business to begin with?
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: Then I'd love to maybe explore how the books lead into those things or or whatnot.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: But what is it that you actually do that makes money in your business?
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: So everything I do is centered around the word clarity.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: And there are two branches to that consulting and training.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so with the consulting, I work with individuals and brands and teams and companies on getting their message and direction straight, reaching clarity of vision, clarity of purpose, clarity of direction, and clarity of words.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and so, but that's actually the smaller part of my business, even though it's something that is an incredible passion of mine.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh a lot of my business is training.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: I actually train people in companies on communication skills, how to become a clear communicator using the rules and the tools that are accessible to all of us as communicators.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: And most of those clients are corporate.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: Most of them are in the pharmaceutical and biotech industries where I've sort of had my roots for many decades.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: And they train uh their people, salespeople, managers, leaders, on a range of skills, but a vast amount of what they do is communicating both internally and externally.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm trying to help people that are business people master the one skill that they're going to need for the rest of their lives, no matter what the role is, and that's being really, really good at getting to the point and getting their point across.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: That totally makes sense.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, what does a typical what does a typical year for you look like in terms of what kinds of of training and consulting things are you doing?
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh are they happening?
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: Are you having to travel somewhere?
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: Is that mostly virtual?
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: What is what does kind of your life look like as somebody who primarily does consulting and training?
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of the consulting is uh local and uh face to face working with with people that are I'm I live in the Nashville area, as you know.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so I I love working one-on-one or in small teams with people.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, but some of it's virtual.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: I I do have clients scattered around.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, most of my workshop work was live with a lot of travel until COVID.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then when COVID hit, all my clients just went virtual.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I came within a hair's breadth of losing everything at that point because I was just gearing up, you know, on a whole new initiative of live workshops that year.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: Just trash.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: But what happened is people started to look for virtual workshops, and I just repackaged what I was doing and started delivering virtually, and I began to reach audiences I wasn't able to reach before.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: I was reaching global audiences.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: I was doing groups that were, you know, in sections instead of having to devote a half day or a full day to a workshop.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: I could do an hour, hour and a half, and do it in multiple.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: So, right now, a lot of my work is hybrid.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's maybe a combination of some virtual sessions plus a live session.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's been kind of a popular way to go.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: Some have been strictly virtual, some have been strictly live, but I really like the hybrid approach.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm able to cover certain foundational ground uh on a Zoom call or Microsoft Team calls, and then when we get together, get more into the nitty-gritty practical hands-on.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: I just I really like that approach.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting how a global pandemic has opened up a lot of opportunities for people.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think very similar to you, who were maybe used to doing a lot of things, a lot more things live, and then oh, we have this huge crisis, but now look at all the opportunities that we have.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: Not that a crisis not that a crisis is a good thing, but it does open up some interesting opportunities.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, my my base uh on the pharma industry, their training has been very conservative, very old-fashioned, very much live workshop driven, kind of like, you know, no matter what pressures there were to do stuff more online, there was this almost built-in industry resistance.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then everybody's hand was forced.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: And all of a sudden, people found out hey, you can onboard people virtually, you can lead teams virtually, you can do training virtually, and they had to.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so that forced change, now granted there are weaknesses to the virtual area, but that forced change finally broke through all the resistance because you could no longer say by say 2020 or 2021 that this virtual thing doesn't work.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it had to work, and so we made it work.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: Now, in your mind, how do you distinguish?
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think some people are confused by the differences in offerings that people have in your space.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: How do you define the difference between consulting and training and workshops?
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's different kinds of terminology or coaching, there's different terms that are used for doing similar kinds of activities.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: How do you differentiate that in your business?
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's a that's a really important question and one I wrestle with for years.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so in the early days of my working with small teams and individuals consulting, I was going back and forth.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: Am I a coach or am I a consultant?
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: What am I?
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: And there were elements of both.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I I eventually landed on the fact that I'm a consultant because the idea of a coaching relationship is usually longer term.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's usually kind of incremental longer term.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: And that's not the way I work.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: I work on a more uh of an epiphany basis.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: Let's dig in real deep and bring the answer this to the surface.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: What is the key point here?
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: What is the actual brand?
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: What's the message?
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: What's the thing?
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then I will provide some level of reinforcement and coaching and help getting there.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: But I do more short-term stuff when it comes to the consulting and when it comes to getting the message straight.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I'm not the call me every week and let's sort of go over your to-do list and how you're doing type.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: I brought up five kids, I don't want to be a parent anymore.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: Which, you know, that there are times when coaching can kind of devolve into that if you don't have good boundaries and all that.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I I uh but but for a long time I was really struggling with that.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: I just didn't know which I was or how to define it.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: And there there aren't real, totally clear definitions.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so you kind of just have to say, all right, this is what I do, this is how I do it.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's that.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: Now let's let's check for a minute if we can about how do your books actually play into this mix?
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: Because after all, this podcast is called The Profitable Writer.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: And as a writer, you have used books in some really interesting ways.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: Now, the first thing, and I've got kind of several levels of things I want to ask about about the role that these books play in your business.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um and really, I guess my first question is why books to begin with?
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: There are a lot of people who do similar things that you do, you know, training, consulting, speaking, those kinds of things, but they don't have books.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: So for you, what was behind the decision to invest the time and the money into writing a couple of great books to begin with?
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: Part of it is just my personal makeup.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: I am a systematic thinker, I arrange ideas, I think in terms of words, and I've always done this for decades.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, I knew in my 20s I was gonna write books.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: Turns out the first one I wrote was in when I was 60, but I've known all along that I'd be a writer, and so I I can't not write.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's just the way it is.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: I've been blogging for years, I've been doing all kinds of stuff for writing.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: But there's a certain point, and I've reached it twice, uh, where you've got this bolus of stuff, and it's gotta come out.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you can't sit on it any longer.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: You've been thinking about it, mulling it, sketching it out, working on it, and it's like, I gotta get this out.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: So my first book, Clarity Wins, was like that, and my second book, The Point, is kind of like a uh a part two, because one of the things that was driving me was this idea could there be one communication formula for everybody?
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen formulas for selling, formulas for marketing, formula for 15 different formulas.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody had a formula for communicating, just communicating, human beings.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I I was driven by this crazy notion, maybe that was there, and if it was, I was gonna find it, which I did.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and so I must write now.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: From a practical and strategic and business point of view, it's the validation piece that's the most important thing.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: If you can put your ideas together and have a point of view that's strong, valuable, and practical, and you can package it together in a book, you immediately have a magic pill of validation.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: People look at you differently.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm not just a facilitator, I'm not just a trainer, I am an author.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: I have now shown myself to be, whether it's true or not, uh I think it's true, a thought leader.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: It is true.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: People pay for thought leaders, they will pay much more to have someone with a unique point of view and set of principles and practices and formulas and recipes than they will for just someone to come in and just you know spew stuff.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: So for me as a solopreneur, this was crucial to be able to take my ideas and put them in a format where people could say, wow, we need that we need this guy because he's got something really important to say.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I see it in this book.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, I love that.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: And that's such a validating thing to hear, even though I I firm I have firmly believed this for a long time.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: Just hearing somebody else talk about how being an author validates you, gives you instant credibility.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: And now, of course, the book has to be good.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: You can't just put a junk book out there and uh although some people do that.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: That has the opposite effect.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: Now you're a bozo and you've gone publicly made yourself a bozo.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, that's true.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: Although I have seen uh a lot of books be very successful that are maybe not written that well, or they have a terrible cover design or whatever.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: So there are exceptions to the rule, but as a rule, the book has to be good.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: So you've got these two great books out here.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: What role do those play in um I guess really kind of two things.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: How do they help promote your your other money-making activities?
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: So your direct training workshops, consulting, etc., with with companies.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um maybe let's just start there.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: How do those help drive that part of your business?
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, one of the things I've worked with a lot of solopreneurs, a lot of consultants to try to help them define their brand and their stuff.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I will say to most consultants, people want to buy some kind of framework.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: They want to buy a formula, they want to buy a recipe, they want to buy a tangible thing.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: So you've got to spell out what your magic offering is, you're the superpower that you're proposing.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to put it in a one, two, three, an ABC, uh, one to 10, some format that people can wrap their brain around and say, Oh, I see where this is going.
• 19:28
  unknown: Right.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so the book is the ultimate expression of that.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: The book is that framework.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so I deliberately made my books to be more framework and handbook style because I want people to look at it, look through this, and say, I know where this guy's going.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I I can I can apply this stuff right now, right here.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um I absolutely want people to be applying.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want people just saying, Oh, this was wonderful and not have anything to do.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: But it also makes it a tremendous reinforcement if I'm training a group to say, here's here's the book.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, here's it, this is what we're learning, and this is what you can continue to go back to.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: It becomes a reference.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: So there's this cascade of reinforcement when you have a book that is different than going in and doing a one and done training, and there's nothing to leave behind that really, you know, someone can say, All right, I'm going to the next level here.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really a way to offer the same framework to people at different levels because you can go much more in depth in a book than you can, let's say, in a one-hour training or even a series of one-hour trainings, those kinds of things.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I've I've done clarity workshops, anything from one hour to three days, and everything in between.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I can take this material, having developed it into the framework that it is, I can take this material now, this intellectual property, I can break it into as many pieces as I want.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I can do one single thought on email clarity, or I can do, you know, uh the eight S of how to use simplicity and how to package words in a way that make it vivid and turn the lights on people.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: And the beauty of creating a framework and creating a body of work like this is once you have it, you can play with it like Lego blocks and apply it in all kinds of different ways.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so the book becomes the reservoir to draw from as a trainer or as a speaker.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: What do you feel like people get out of um uh let me back up for a second?
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I'm asking this question on behalf of writers who primarily are geared toward writing books and content, but maybe they haven't considered things like training consulting workshops as a possible revenue source or as an income.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Street more as a way to serve people at a deeper level.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: What do people get out of having you come and present or work with them directly that they don't get out of just reading your book?
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: What is it about that experience that is much richer and deeper?
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: This has been the issue that trainers have talked about all the time.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: And um reading a book is a just a different dynamic.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: And when you're in a setting, either live or virtual, and especially if it's a small group or a large group setting, there's a dynamic, and my workshops are full of discussion.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: We do a lot of back and forth, a lot of discussion, a lot of let's pull this out and apply this right here to this problem you're having.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: You just can't.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: You can read the good stuff in the book, but there's some magic involved when you get people together wrestling with the concepts and bringing up the things that they're right now dealing with, that they suddenly some I say something and they go, Oh man, we need to change that proposal or tomorrow because we're not getting to the point.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, I love that stuff.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: Every speaker loves that stuff.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: So it's this applicability piece that makes the workshops and the one-on-one magical.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'm taking all this material and I'm saying, let's put it to work in your situation.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas, as you know, I taught college for many years.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, the last time you were on the show, I was still working at the school where I used to teach.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: Did that job for a long time, and it sounds very similar to the dynamic of why a lot of people love teaching.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's being in the classroom with, and of course, live is always better than virtual, if possible.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost always better.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's maybe not better, but most of the time it is.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: And there's something about that energy of being in a room or a lecture hall or whatever it is, with actual human beings.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: There's an energy and a dynamic that just isn't there when people are just passively reading something.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: And you I don't know of any other way to duplicate that.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think there is a way to duplicate it.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm glad.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm a reader, I've always been a reader.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: I I actually dig deep into books and think a lot.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the things I had to overcome was to realize most people aren't built like me.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: We all think people are built like us, they're not.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's true.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of people don't make advances reading something, they only make advantages advances in a situation where there is a social situation where there are people one-on-one, or maybe a group, or maybe a large group.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and so uh not everybody can just pick up a bunch of stuff and learn it in the abstract.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: And students certainly can't in school.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: My wife is a teacher, so we talk about these things all the time.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: And all the rules of effective communication apply equally to teachers, to preachers, to leaders, to salespeople, to marketing.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's all human communication.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: So we talk about clarity uh on every level because it applies on every level, yeah, uh, including parenting.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, so one of the principles I talk about in the point is that you want to do good communication so you can actually get everybody aligned and on the same page.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's a lot of times people don't write the page, so they're not aligned.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: You have a meeting, nobody writes anything.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what we're doing with children is we're aligning them and getting them on the same page with us.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: So all the way down to the level of a two-year-old, we need to practice simplicity and clarity and make sure that the light of understanding comes on and that they know what the call to action is.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: Do your books help help promote your training and consulting business?
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like uh is there a direct link between your books being out in the world and then people hiring you, or is it more an issue of your books reinforce relationships and connections that are already present?
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's both.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's definitely both.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: So uh the credibility piece that we talked about earlier.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if you someone's first encounter with someone with an author is their book, you're either going to make a really good impression or you're not.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so people are much more inclined to enter into a relationship of of trust with someone that's put out there something that's tangible, that's uh understandable, that other people are reading and enjoying.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, so it it just works both ways.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um the crucial thing to remember for an author is that no matter how much stuff you've got in that book, by and large, people are gonna walk away with like two or three things that they're really, really going to remember.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so, even though one of the things it's only part of my formula, is getting to the point.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: I talk about getting to the point a lot because it just seems to resonate with people.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody wants everybody else to get to the point, and we all know the pain of sitting around when somebody's not getting to the point.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so, what people often walk away from, even though my book talks a whole lot more about other things, not just getting to the point.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: They walk away with, yeah, he's that get to the point guy.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, there's Steve.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: I better get right to the point.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, okay, you're gonna have some lead thoughts.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: People aren't gonna walk away with 60 things.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm happy if they walk away with three.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's good.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm happy if they walk away with one.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, that's that's still one thing that impacted their life.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's that's pretty amazing.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: If you can, if people can remember even just one thing that you mentioned, or one way that you're impacting their business or their life or their writing, that's phenomenal.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think we all want that.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, well, it's there's a shortcut process.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm all about shortcuts.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: The the human mind has certain memories.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: And if you can hook your concept into somebody's memory where they already have an existing hook, then you win.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: You can take your concept and bring it across.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so my foil in both of my books is a very successful business called UPS.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: Very successful, absolutely horrible marketers.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: Horrible.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: And for over 15 years, I have asked people in groups large and small, what is written on the side of a UPS truck?
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: UPS nobody knows.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: They have two other two taglines.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: They have the UPS logo, and then they have one of two taglines, or sometimes both.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: They do?
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's exactly that's I never realized that.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: And how many UPS trucks do you see a week?
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: Oh I mean, several times a week.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: They have 130,000 moving billboards all over the world, and nobody knows their tagline.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so then I tell you what it is.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: I tell people the two taglines.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: One is worldwide services, which is so generic services.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: What the heck is that?
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody remembers that.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: The other's worse.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: Synchronizing the world of commerce, which is a message for the 0.001% of people that are executives in supply chain management that understand that UPS provides back office logistics sport.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: These two twin bogus, stupid phrases, nobody ever knows.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's the biggest loss opportunity, in my opinion.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I have stolen more real estate from people by bringing up UPS in my workshops and in my books.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because now every time they see a UPS truck, what do they think of?
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: Me.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because I told them something about UPS and they suddenly see it and they go, Oh, yeah, that's pretty awful.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I've stolen that.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: And a great writer can take something little like that or speaker and plant that thing, and it becomes your hook.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I you know, UPS, they haven't listened to me in 15, 16 years.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: I've written I don't know how many blog posts, two books, whatever.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: They're still using the same bogus nonsense.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, I'm happy to have them advertising me all the time.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's fantastic.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you mentioned great writing, and I do want to ask about your process of putting together these books.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: So as you were writing these books, Clarity Wins and the Point, did you write those with the idea in mind that these were almost kind of I've never heard this term before, but these books are almost kind of modular in the sense where you can pull out pieces and use these for here's a presentation, here's a a training, here's a consulting, you know, package of sessions or something.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: Did you write these with the idea in mind that you would be using these directly in other parts of your business?
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yes and no.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I I actually wrote these books since I since I was very active in blogging.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: Most of the content of these books ended up being written about years before in my blog and multiple times and in other articles that I've published, and a couple of them in chapters of other people's books and this kind of stuff.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: So there's this buildup of the material to the point where I finally had to say, okay, I've got to systematize this.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: Once I was ready to systematize it, I actually had the bulk of the ideas that I'd been wrestling with and writing about for a long time.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: But then I had to say, okay, how am I going to put this together in a cohesive way that will allow me to do things with it?
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: And particularly the point, the second book, is put together as a more systematic handbook with the idea that I would take these sections and turn them into workshops.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, the fact is, I had already taken most of those things and turned them into workshops before they were in the book.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, the the workshops ended up being sort of the proving ground to say, okay, my concepts are good.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: Then I put them in the book, and then I come back and keep doing workshops that are based on the book.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: We'll get back to the conversation in just a minute, but I want to take a moment to give a big thanks to today's sponsor, Vellum.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: As a writer, you not only want to write great books, but you also want them to look professionally formatted and give your reader a great experience.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why for years my go-to choice for book formatting software has been Vellum.
• 32:58
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• 33:05
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• 33:14
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• 33:18
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• 33:21
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• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: To download Vellum for free, visit dryvellum.com slash Kent.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's dryvellum.com slash Kent.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: Now let's get back to the conversation.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: Now that that's an interesting, that's an interesting way to approach it.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes people ask me, you know, whether it's podcasters or speakers or whoever it is, you know, should I make the non-book thing first and then use that material for the book, or should I write the book first and then turn the book into other kinds of things?
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: I just tell people it depends on what your preferred way of creating material is.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think if you're already in the training and consulting space or you're a podcaster or speaker, you're already kind of testing that material out and you have proof of concept that this works or this doesn't work or whatever.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then that gives you better information about what to put in the book.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: But people like me, I am primarily a writer.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm always going to write something first as my kind of way to think it through, and then that'll find its way into other things.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I love the fact that you mentioned that because I think people should take whatever pathway suits them best.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, one size doesn't fit all are different because like you, I I write think or I think write.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: Writing and thinking that they go together for me.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think best when I'm writing, but not everybody's built that way.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: And and so I don't think we can come up with a set of rules and say, oh, you ought to do it this way.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's not that rigid.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I think what you've said is correct.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: Circumstantially, you know, where are you at, what what's your position, you might want to take this course or that course, depending on how you're built, how mature your thought process is and your point of view.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: And uh for me, I felt much better having proof of concept over years working with clients before putting it into the book.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think I would have written these books in the abstract because they're practical and because I wanted to make sure I knew what I was talking about.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I do want to ask about your publishing pathways for these two books.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: So your first book, Clarity Wins, you self-published, and then the point, your most, your more recent book, you went through Morgan James.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: I've done a few books with Morgan James authors.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, one of them was with the CEO, David Hancock, uh wonderful guy.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm curious what your experience, how is your experience different with both of those avenues of publishing?
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: And just based on that, do you have any thoughts for people who are working on their first book about maybe which avenue that you would recommend, or maybe you would recommend traditional publishing?
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: We haven't actually talked about this, so I'm curious your thoughts.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: Well, uh, I haven't done traditional publishing.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: And when I looked at the process for traditional publishing and what it would take to I didn't have the time frame of saying I'm gonna write something 18 months later it would come out.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then we're this whole process of of proposals and pitching it and all I just I didn't have time for that, and I didn't have patience for it.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so when I did the first book, self-publish, it was just the lowest path, the path of least resistance.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: I just wanted to get this thing done.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I uh found a Sherpa, who was Josh Burnoff, my editor, and he helped connect me with people that would help with other aspects of the production, and uh and just got it done.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but the second book, I wanted to see if there was a chance to uh to get the book possibly into traditional channels, into bookstores.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted a higher quality of production, and uh so I got to know some people, had known some people for Morgan James for a while, including Karen Anderson, who's a wonderful shirt for any author that's trying to figure this stuff out.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: Karen Anderson's a great go to.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so, in talking through all the different scenarios, this going with Morgan James was something that was affordable, was quick.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: They were very, very attentive.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: Their project management was superb, and the quality of the output was really, really good.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: I was so encouraged when the book came out, um, because it's not print on demand, uh, like the the Amazon ones.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: So both experiences were good.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and uh, but I know I've I've heard of other people that have had some nightmare experiences with different hybrid publishers, and it just it just comes down to picking the right one, right?
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: And uh that's where you really want to talk to people, get some advice from experienced authors, because like any other industry, there's shysters out there and there are good people out there, and you don't want to make the mistake of going with some shyster.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's very true.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: Did you feel like going with a hybrid publisher for your second book?
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, in a sense, kind of took the pressure off of having to basically be the project manager for yourself when you self-published.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: Did did that take did that give you some of your time back or reduce your stress?
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's what I wanted, is I actually wanted someone else to run the details.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I had enough details to run in writing the book, in coordinating the the production of the graphics and and some other stuff that I was doing.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I really didn't want to get immersed in all the nuts and bolts and details, and I wanted some help, professional help.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: So uh, so that was the course I took.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_01: And just like other things we've talked about here, there's no one answer, there's no one right thing.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: So exactly, everybody has to approach this and kind of evaluate what's gonna be the best course for them.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: And if somebody's a big enough name and they have a big enough idea, and a traditional publisher wants to throw an advance at them and they think they're gonna sell a lot of physical copies, that may be a great place to go.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: But for a relative unknown like me, that's a hard road to go up.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's much quicker and easier to go hybrid or self-published.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: Well, as we kind of wind this down, Steve, um, I'm curious if you have any advice for people who are considering writing their very first book.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: So you've done this a couple of times now, you've written two fantastic books.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_00: For people who are thinking about diving into the waters of writing their first book, uh, what advice would you give them, or is there anything that you would encourage them to think about before they do that?
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna limit this to nonfiction and uh probably business, because that's what I do.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I don't not involve in fiction.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um if you are looking to write a book that you want to build a consulting practice on, or that you uh are want looking to build business or or appeal to business people, the most important thing is you've got to have a point of view, you've got to have some angle of value, something you say or do that people go, oh, that's interesting.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: And it has to be very compelling, quickly compelling.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: So one of the angles that I take is I say, look, we're all up against the same competitor, no matter what we're in.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: Our competitor is noise and distraction and confusion.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's what we're competing against.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: And my books are all about.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to be brief, vivid, colorful, and succinct and clear because you are up against the Goliath of noise.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's my point of view.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_01: Everything stems from that, comes out of that.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: Now, am I the first person to recognize that?
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_01: But it is the thing that I'm beginning and ending with because this is this is the thing, this is this is what we've got to conquer.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: This is the challenge.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: And everybody knows it.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes they don't know it until you articulate it and they go, Oh, oh, that, yeah, you're right.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_01: I my email is just one of a hundred in somebody emails in somebody's inbox, and I'm not getting any responses.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_01: Why?
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's because your subject line is dumb and not interesting and not relevant, and you're not getting to the point.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_01: Let's fix that.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_01: So the crucial thing is not just to be uh, you know, yapping about the same things everybody else has been yapping about.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to be bringing to light some point of view that adds value and is practical that people can apply.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, we we think we need a PhD or or some kind of you know, huge, we don't.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_01: We if we have experience in doing what we do and we've been able to conquer something, that's what we can start with.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_00: I have never had anybody share that specific piece of advice on the show.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's brilliant.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's really brilliant.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_01: Well, there are a thousand other things that are you know, decisions that cascade down from that.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't I don't and the other thing about that that's so important is that's what's going to drive you.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_01: You better be on a mission when you write that book.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, your point of view is not just an optional, it's it's mission critical.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_01: And writing a book means you are committing yourself to an awful lot of long-term work, incredible work.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're not driven by your purpose and your vision, you're not gonna succeed.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so having something that pushes you means you will be able to push it.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, that's been clarity.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and it wasn't that when I was 22 years old or 33 years old or 44 years old, but it slowly developed over time, and my work kept driving me toward clear communications, clear communications, every single format.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_01: And eventually it simply became I became clarity, and clarity became make to steal something from one of the Star Wars things.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_00: By the way, I have uh, without you knowing it, I have quoted you dozens of times over the years to other people.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because um I've heard you say before, and I I think this is I guess this is original with you.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: You're the the only person I've heard say this, where you talk about you can't read the label of the jar that you're in.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: And you did say that, right?
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: I've been talking about misattributing that.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: I've been the biggest promoter of that, I think.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh in recent days.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: I am not the originator of it, and I don't know who is.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: But as it turns out, when you talk about branding and differentiating in message, we have a hard time seeing ourselves clearly.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: We have a hard time pulling our perspective out.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: And we need, and this is the the heart of my consulting work is I help people figure out who they are, what the label of the jar is, and put it into words.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_01: So that phrase, even though it's not it's not one of the absolute primary phrases in my second book.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: I use it a lot in my first book, it has become one of the phrases that people know about, even though I didn't really originate it.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_01: But it's one of those things you say it and the light goes up.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_01: You go, Oh, yeah, you're right.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm happy to continue to throw that phrase out there.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's that's super valuable because a lot of I primarily work with writers.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, and with the exception of the work that I'm doing where I'm writing for business leaders, entrepreneurs, so forth.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_00: Primarily I work with with writers.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_00: And something I see a lot is that a lot of writers are struggling to figure out what their point of view is.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: They're struggling to figure out what makes them different or unique, or what that what that unique perspective is on the world.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I appreciate the work that you're doing.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's it's wonderful.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, should you choose to write a third book uh down the road, that topic of helping creatives figure out what their point of view is, I think could be very valuable.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's some of that can be written in a book and and some of it can't.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_01: And part of, you know, I've got this, these two books are full of content, but my superpower is sitting with people and figuring out their label.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, and that is something that you can't replicate.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, it's it's a live dynamic interaction of pulling information out of people, rearranging stuff, finding the themes, and every person's unique.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_01: And because you can't read the label the jar you're in, I can't provide you with a book to do it yourself because that violates the entire principle.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right, and so I get myself all tangled up, and I have thought leaders and guys and consultants and gals and people I trust who help me read my label because I can't either, and I get I get all confused and need click, so you know, then that just proves the point.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody can read the label that y'all they're in.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_00: It proves the point, which brings us full circle.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: The point, which is that for people, you know, people who are listening, you can't see this.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, that's the name, the title of Steve's newer book.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_00: So, Steve, this has been an absolute blast.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, where can people find out more about your books, your services, and all the cool things that you're working on?
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, everything's at stevewoodruff.com.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_01: So there are links to the books there, there are descriptions of the workshops and the speaking that I do and the consulting that I do.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_01: And uh people can just feel free to reach out to me.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm always happy to have a 20, 30 minute introductory call with folks that are struggling with their their message or their business direction, or you know, struggling with clarity.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I, you know, this this isn't idle bragging, okay?
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_01: But I've been doing this clarity stuff for decades.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_01: I have never yet met the person I can't figure out to some extent.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's just there's just it's asking questions, pulling information out, and somehow I can figure them out.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_01: It sometimes and it it's yeah, it's amazing.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's mad.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_01: I call it magic because it really is.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's a spiritual gift, really, but it's also something I just call magic.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_01: Because beyond the books and beyond the formulas and beyond the content, there's this enormous, wonderful, high impact joy that I get talking to people and helping them see themselves.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: It there's nothing like it, absolutely nothing like it.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's my favorite thing in the world.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll I'll I'll close with this, I guess, but I'll put you on the spot just a hair.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm curious.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_00: So we've had a couple conversations, you know, over the years.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: Now I realize the last one was a few years ago.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, you know, we've kind of known each other online and offline.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_00: As you have talked to me, are there any particular insights or things that have jumped out to you about hey, this is something that Kent can uniquely do, or uh something about his platform, or I'm just curious, any anything and all that has jumped out to you, or maybe Steve, I'm a complete enigma and a complete mystery.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I doubt if that's the case, but I'm always just curious.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_01: No, you've the the arc of of your work has a a relatively straightforward story, and a lot of people's arc is uh hard to hard to figure it out.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_01: We eventually find the story, the narrative.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_01: True, but you work you work with ideas, you work with words, you work with people, and teachers do that, preachers do that, writers do that, consultants do that, trainers do that.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and so you've always been kind of doing this.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's just different formats, different forms.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_01: But the key thing in reading the label, the jar, is you're a word wrangler, and it doesn't matter if it goes in that direction, that direction, that direction, that direction, as long as you're doing the thing you're designed to do.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yep.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_01: I am an idea and word distiller.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_01: Everything I do is distilling ideas and words, everything.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_01: Now, people don't know how to buy that, so I have to put it in terms like consultant, author, trainer, clarity, whatever, whatever, whatever.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_01: But that's my superpower, that's my magic.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I believe that everybody has a superpower, and my job is to try to help them find it, figure it out, put words around it, and then say, go in that direction.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's where you're gonna find.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what you're doing.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_01: And you've done it systematically, you haven't done it recklessly.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen people do it recklessly, and they just sort of say, I'm just gonna go in this direction, and and you know, the universe will will applaud me.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, something you wrote as early, uh as late as I think today, uh, on LinkedIn was that you had a very systematic approach to the way that you went about this, and you were very way that you went about the development of your career.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, you're still being true to who you are.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's the way to do this.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_01: Figure out who you are, and then figure out a responsible path to get there.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_00: And isn't that really our life's task in a way?
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we we talk about, you know, in in the Christian tradition, we use this term calling and vocation.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it has, it's more than just a job.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's what what are you called to do on this earth vocationally?
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, aside from your family and your relationship with God and uh these other kinds of life elements, what what's what's the central task of your life?
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like many of us don't have real clarity about that until you know, late 30s, 40s, 50s, at least that was the case for me.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_00: And gosh, I'm I'm so thankful for having clarity now about what my life is actually about.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_00: That wasn't really clear until just the last few years.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_00: And uh that it's a real gift to have clarity because you know I'm not supposed to be doing this, I'm not supposed to be doing that, I need to be doing this and figure out how to make this my career.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really that simple, I think.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_01: The advantage of clarity when it comes to reading a label of the jar you're in is all decisions become simpler.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, because when you know what you're saying yes to, then it's much easier to say no to everything else.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's the most empowering thing, and you're right, it often is our 30s, 40s, and 50s when we're battered around by life experiences.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_01: We find out I didn't like this company, I didn't like this job, I liked this, this was great, this wasn't, and it begins to emerge who we really are.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, and when we can put that into words, so mine is very simple.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_01: My purpose is to help as many other people as possible find their purpose and wrap words about it.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's beautiful.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's so that's so simply, simply beautiful, and I mean simply in the the highest use possible.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_01: But that makes all my decisions wrong.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_01: Do I want to do that?
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_01: Do I want to do that?
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_01: Could I do that?
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but is that really my mission?
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the most liberating thing for any professional, and that by professional I also mean people that stay at home and bring up children.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, is if you can arrive at that statement and say, This is who I am, this is who God made me to be, this is my mission, my goal, my purpose.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's like having, and I mentioned to you that I'm in the middle of cataract surgery.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_01: So right now I'm looking at you with one clear eye and one foggy eye, and my the other eye gets clear.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_01: Instead of looking at life with this fog of not being sure who I am, where I'm going, what's going on, I now can look with one eye and tomorrow too.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_01: 2020 vision.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's so much better that way.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_01: Fog isn't good.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_01: Confusion's not good.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, smoke isn't good, clarity's good.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_00: Man, what an inspiring conversation.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_01: No, I appreciate you having me on.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's been great to get to renew ties again.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but uh, but I mean that legitimately.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like um one of the reasons I do a podcast, there's multiple reasons, but one of the main reasons is that it gives me the chance to have conversations with people I admire and respect.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I always come away in with something that I've learned or something that's inspired me in a new way.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_00: And this conversation has definitely done that.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_00: So so thanks for the encouraging words and thanks for giving us a lot of great wisdom today.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_00: This has been uh a really fantastic conversation.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate you taking an hour out every day to share it with us.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_01: Thoroughly enjoyed it.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me, Ken.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, thanks so much for joining me for another episode of The Profitable Writer.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_00: As always, I appreciate you taking time to listen.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm looking forward to the next episode, which features a conversation with artist Mike Brennan on how to grow your creativity.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_00: And this is going to be a super fun conversation that you definitely don't want to miss.