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The Three Hidden Hazards That Can Sink A Property Purchase · That Home Loan Hub

• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Meth, mold, and asbestos.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: I've got Evan here today, and we're gonna talk about the three words that can kill a deal.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, Evan.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, how's it going?
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: Very serious topic today.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: I love this topic.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me more about meth.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: Meth is interesting because it obviously has this massive stigma in New Zealand and with some absolute factual basis behind it.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: However, some people think that it's worse than others.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of liken meth similar to mould, to be honest.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: And some people have more adverse reactions to it than others.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: I I personally, if I go into a house that does have confirmed meth contamination, if I don't wear a mask, I get slight headaches, itchy eyes, I've just become quite irritable, which my wife would probably confirm that.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: And but some people I know uh one of our inspectors over in the Wadarapa, he doesn't have an issue with it.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: He goes in, can kind of smell something's up, but doesn't really affect him at all.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: So he could kind of walk around with no mask and and be fine.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas I'm the complete opposite.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's a it's an interesting one.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: I've I've done a couple of tests over the last couple of weeks, and one that I did last week, which was really interesting, the the results came back, and so there were eight samples, and the average sample I think was eight point seven.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: So the New Zealand standard is anything above 1.5 is considered meth contamination.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: So the average sample, 8.7.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's like eight times more on it.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, seven times.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: So then I look at the theoretical maximum.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: So if all the samples, or if all the contamination came from one sample, that was at 61.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: So that's ridiculously high.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: However, trying to like interpret the information from the results, if I've got eight samples and their the average sample is 8.7, but the theoretical maximum from one sample is 61, you kind of take that theoretical maximum divide it by the number.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: It you that does actually give like a pretty average, consistent score.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: So that means that in that dwelling where I took the samples, there's a pretty even distribution of meth throughout the house.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas more it's not just done in one room.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: No, so that's that's the interesting part.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: This is probably one of the first times where it's been even throughout the entire house.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: Usually there'll be one or two rooms that will have nothing and that that's kind of skews the data.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: So this was nice and even.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas other ones where I've I've tested and you know the average number was lower or or you know significantly higher, but then the theoretical maximum was more similar to that like higher number.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: So for instance, there was one that I did a couple of months ago where I think the average was 27 or something, but the theoretical maximum was 70.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: So that means that there was, you know, the the average was oh no, actually, no, I think I've screwed that up.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was over 100 was the theoretical maximum.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: But anyways, it meant that like there was a significant contamination in a couple of areas, but then there were areas where it was like really low.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: So it kind of it kind of shifted the data.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: Which is really unfair, isn't it?
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: Because it sort of indicates that yes, there is a high presence of math.
• 4:25
  unknown: Right?
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there will be somewhere in that dwelling.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: In my understanding this correct, right?
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: So there will be high presence of math, but because you have to do all this averages and whatever, it may look like, oh, it's actually fine.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes and no.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: So you can from doing the inspection and getting the lab results, and please, if listeners, if you ever get a math test done, please make sure you get lab results and not just an instantaneous kit because they're not very accurate.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: So looking at the results, you can kind of give the correct advice, either just go straight to a decontamination team or get detailed assessment which will break down they'll they'll go into the house and do way more testing and determine where those results are.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: So for someone that I did last week where the average was consistent and the theoretical maximum kind of gave me the idea that it is probably spread pretty evenly throughout the house.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: They could go to a detailed assessment or they could just go straight decontamination.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas if something kind of skews it a little bit and there could be one or two rooms that have ridiculously high numbers, but the rest of the house is low, you want to know exactly where the those are high and what the levels in the rest of the house, because you might only have to decontaminate two rooms.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: So for someone that doesn't know anything about math, me, I don't know anything about math.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe some of our listeners don't.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: Can you take me through how do you even test?
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm trying to imagine you walking around the house.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: Do you lick the walls?
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: Do you smell the floors?
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what do you do?
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: So we we adhere to the the NIOSH standard.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: So we essentially have hundred by hundred squares, and so they've got like a sticky back to it.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: We've kind of determined where the best possible location is for airflow, you know, or if there's some there are some substances, uh material, sorry, where meth doesn't break down on.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: So polyurethane, if I see a polyurethane door, I'm testing that door rather than you know an extractor fan.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: Because if meth goes on that polyurethane, it's not breaking down.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: So it'll give me a true indication of what the actual level is.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: So first point of call will be polyurethane.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then with that 100 by 100 square, then we do a swab sample.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: So the swabs come from the lab that we use.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: We use uh Hill Laboratories, shout out.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um and yeah, so we do three uh swab samples uh on the same swab.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: So you can fold it up, change it over, get a new thing, and then so you take one sample from each location in each room.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: So depending on how big the house is, how many rooms, and ideal locations, sometimes you could like if the room's massive, for instance, like your house here, massive.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: Don't tell people how big it is.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: You'll be here all day testing for math.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: A big, like big dining kind of kitchen area with like an opening through into like a you know another area as well.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: You could maybe do two areas there.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: So you might do one in the kitchen and and one maybe on like a heat pump or something, because anything that creates airflow.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, it gets in there.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: So how can the math be read in terms of like, is it people using it or is it people making it?
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that's that's a good question.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: And that kind of comes down to what the results are.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm probably not the person to talk to about this because I'm not a detailed specialist.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: I do a screening process, so I try and get the initial kind of stage, and I only do one sample in each room.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas a detailed assessment, they'll do multiple samples in each room to kind of give you a solid breakdown of where that contamination is.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: The yeah, the if it's really high levels, then it's more likely that it's going to be methamphetamine manufacturing.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas unless it's like really high usage, but there are some levels where you just can't probably can't get to by just use alone.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: So it could be manufacturing or it could be a mixture of both.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: Or if there's a really good setup, the actual methamphetamine levels for manufacturing could actually be a little bit lower.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: So it's I'm not too sure.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how to manufacture meth.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: So neither.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: We're safe there.
• 9:26
  unknown: Yeah.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, interesting.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm I'm always curious, and then what happens to the properties?
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like when you say decontamination.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: Decontamination, yeah.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: What happens at that point?
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: So depending on the levels, the decontamination experts, and again, I'm not an expert in this, uh, so they'll have their own kind of information about it, but there are multiple uh processes which they could go through if it's just like a clean down, so wiping down areas.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: There's also they take in like smog or haze machines and literally just pump moisture into the walls, make everything sweat, and then they'll they'll wipe it down, that kind of scenario.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: So that's more extreme on the whole cleaning down surface, and then if something's just way too contaminated, then they will just take the walls off, the floors, the seat.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: Take the wall linings, yeah.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and stuff, yeah.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: One time it went down in the history for me where clients wanted to buy a house that used to be a math lab, and it had literally like no walls, no ceilings, no floors, nothing, and they really wanted to buy that house.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: They were a young family with kids and stuff, and I refused to do the lensing for that house because I felt ethically irresponsible to put a young family with extremely low deposit into a house that needed full renovation done.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I was not their favorite broker, they fired me as a broker because I refused to do this deal.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because for me, no, having morals.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: I know, right?
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's funny the amount of clients that fire me over me having morals because I feel each to their own.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: But if there was an investor that had, you know, 40% deposit, 50% deposit, and they had plenty of cash left over to do the renovation, sure.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: If they weren't really attached to it and they were trying to do something really good for New Zealand housing economy, awesome.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: But when it's a young family with kids, and like even if after decontamination, you still don't know.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I wouldn't put my family in that.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, with the decontamination, they then have to get the uh detailed assessment guys back.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: They'll then retest and it has to be below the level, otherwise, they have to can continue with decontamination.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: So when it comes to decontamination, it's effective.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'll just bulldoze the house.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'll just start again.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes that may be required.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I've seen that as well.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so meth.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: How often do you see this come up as an issue in your reports?
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like let's say you've done 10 reports out of 10.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: How often would you see meth come up?
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: Not that often.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's good.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: Not that often.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: I I wouldn't even it wouldn't even be one in ten.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe one in twenty.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: Or maybe even closer to one in thirty reports that I do.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: You do it in Carpete, so less picking up.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: I also go up to Lavin.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: Levin Levin's a little bit of a hot spot.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: So Yeah.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I did know some people here in Prem and the house blew up because the math lab went wrong.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh Jesus.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: The whole whole house went on fire.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: So that wasn't fun for the landlords.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: But in terms of mold, because we touched on mold as well, I guess you would see that more often.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me more.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think like I was talking to a mold expert, and they reckon like 80%, maybe even higher than 80% of all New Zealand houses have mold, some form of mould.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's insane.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: The the biggest one that I'm seeing at the moment is which is the scary part, townhouses.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: They have no airflow in their roof, roof cavities, in their roof spaces, and we're just seeing mould grow on the on the underneath of the roofing paper.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: Which is pretty terrifying because they're obviously with the new H H1 standards with insulation and and all that jazz, these houses are built to be warm, dry homes.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: And initially they should be.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: I can't say they will be, but they should be.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: But then there's no consideration with like mechanical ventilation and roof spaces.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: That should be a massive a massive area where the designer can just put a vent, a mechanical vent, in the roof space, which allows airflow.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: There's insulation up there, and the crazy part is the insulation nowadays is is so thick the R values are almost double digits, you know.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so any small kind of airflow in that roof space isn't gonna affect performance really of the insulation, but it's gonna stop that that moisture.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: If there's any moisture content in the roof space, it's gonna just condensate and build up and and that's gonna grow mould.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: Why it's not being addressed?
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: Dunno.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: Cost saving maybe?
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't I have no idea.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: But I'd say I'd say one in five new builds that I inspect have mould in the roof space.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's insane.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: At what point when you inspect them they have it?
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: When you say new builds?
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: So when I do like a pre-purchase inspection for someone?
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: So it's finished, it's been council consented, certificate of accept certificate of compliance has been issued, it's ready to sell.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: Developers, you know, essentially have walked away because they finished their job, they're on to the next one.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: Oh and do the purchasers have any rights at that point to do anything about it?
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well that's that's a conversation for them to have with their lawyer, I guess.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: Because it is an issue, but if it's if there's mould in that roof space, there's an issue.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so maybe they might be able to go back.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there there's just the one-year workmanship guarantee.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: Most of them come with like a like a master build kind of guarantee.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: There's issues, it's not performing.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, no water's getting in there, but if there's no airflow and these places don't have eaves, so they're they're essentially just like hotboxing the roof space.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: Good for grinhouse.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: Grow some tomatoes.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: Good for a grow house.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't say that.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: I saw it in your eyes.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: But you're right, you know, it's crazy.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's crazy the amount of new builds that we see that have issues.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so question to you in terms of building inspectors association, is there a thing?
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: Builders inspectors association?
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: There's there's NZIBI, which is the New Zealand Institute of Building Inspectors, and then there's also Boines, which is I'm not part of that one, so I don't actually know the acronym wording, but yeah, yeah.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: Because what I'm thinking, if that was me, I would love to set up something where building inspectors could, you know, as you submit the reports, and surely with the help of AI, it could identify common issues, right?
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: And then if the common issues are all collected and then reported back to the government, going, hey, look at this.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: You are passing these houses through the council, going, yep, it's okay to build this, but is it actually going to be okay for New Zealand this long term?
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: There's there's been a bit of discussion uh in my industry, what is potentially the next leaky building kind of saga.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: What is it?
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: I I have a high suspicion that it will be townhouses, but it won't be, they're not leaking, but it will be mould.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: Mold's gonna be the next leaky homes.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's just gonna get worse.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: Especially because there's the walls are fully insulated, double glazing, it gets so hot.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: Any moisture inside, people live inside, so there's clearly gonna be moisture, but then people aren't like leaving windows open or the ventilation, just like a easy, you know, smart vent kind of system that's pretty cheap, but allows airflow to start flowing through the house.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: If you're not doing that, mold's just gonna grow.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's scary.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: The next one we had was asbestos on our list.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: So math mold and asbestos.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: What can you tell me about asbestos?
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think I've said in the past on your podcast, don't uh don't break it off and lick it.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I was incorrect in that statement.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: Don't sniff it.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: Don't sniff it.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: Ingesting it is actually better.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: You could you could eat asbestos.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's the fibers are getting into your lungs.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's what causes the big issue.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: So hold your breath when you're eating it.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, sure.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: That that will absolutely work.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: Please don't do that, listeners.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we are obviously having fun with the asbestos, very serious topics here, so we have to have a bit of fun.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: I have clients always concerned going, oh my god, the report has picked up there's some asbestos in the house.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: Firstly, it would be wild for any report to say that there is confirmed asbestos.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: So let me just throw that out there right now because you cannot confirm asbestos without laboratory testing.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: So this product may contain asbestos, get it tested prior to doing any renovations.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's what the wording should be.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: You can't say asbestos has been confirmed or asbestos product.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's a really good tip.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's a really good tip for people being scared into something.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: So one of the one of the first things when I walk into a house and I ask either the agent or the vendor uh any disclosures, any, and usually their answer is, what is that?
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll say, okay, any EQC claims, any past leaks, if the house is of an era where it could potentially contain asbestos, I'll ask, has there been any asbestos tests completed?
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: And they'll say no, and I'm like, cool, great.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: I I'll put it into my report that may contain asbestos if it's a fiber cement product or you know, vinyl from the 70s, 80s, 90s, Eve linings, you know, any anything that could potentially contain asbestos, it'll have that little kind of disclosure from my end that it could get it tested prior to any like remedial work or whatever.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, you can't say that it contains asbestos.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I have seen some building reports that say Yeah, yeah, I I I'm the same.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: I've I've seen those.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: And unless that vendor or you know the owner has had a test done and you cite that report saying, Yeah, confirmed asbestos, then that's the only time you can ever put it in your report because otherwise it's so misleading.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: So quick fire question to you.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: Out of the three, which one is the worst?
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: That mould.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: Hands down.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's so because because it's so prevalent in New Zealand homes, like 80% of homes, one in five homes, sorry, four in four out of five homes, will have some sort of mould.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: And if it's the wrong type of mould, really bad issues come from it.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, hands down, mould.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: Beautiful.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Evan, so much for your time today.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: No worries.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I can't wait to hear what we're gonna talk about next.