Latest / The Psychology of Relationships / Money & Relationships: What Financial Compatibility Really Means for Couples w/ Joe Gavazza

Transcript

Money & Relationships: What Financial Compatibility Really Means for Couples w/ Joe Gavazza · The Psychology of Relationships

0:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm Julie Kraftcheck, and I'm U.A.
0:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Xu.
0:03
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the psychology of relationships.
0:07
[SPEAKER_01]: There are very few topics that can create more tentant in relationships than the topic of money.
0:13
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not just about how much you earn or what's in your bank account, it's about the values, priorities, and beliefs that shape the decisions you make together.
0:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Yet, many couples avoid financial conversations until conflict forces them to have them.
0:27
[SPEAKER_01]: In this episode, we're joined by Jogavaza of Gavaza Wealth Management.
0:31
[SPEAKER_01]: to explore how couples can build healthier financial partnerships from the beginning.
0:36
[SPEAKER_01]: We discuss what financial compatibility actually looks like beyond income, how to navigate conversations about spending, saving, debt and long-term goals, and why understanding each other's money mindset can help prevent conflict before it starts.
0:56
[SPEAKER_01]: freedom, trust and the future we imagine building together.
1:00
[SPEAKER_01]: While we often think compatibility comes down to chemistry and communication, our beliefs around money can influence some of the biggest decisions we make as a couple.
1:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Rather than avoiding difficult conversations, Joe shares how couples can use them as opportunities to create greater alignment and strengthen their relationship.
1:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Remember to subscribe to the psychology of relationships on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen.
1:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And if this episode shifted how you think about money and relationships, we love a rating or a review.
1:32
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the psychology of relationships.
1:34
[SPEAKER_01]: And you're listening to an episode that just might change the way you show up for love.
1:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Enjoy.
1:39
[SPEAKER_01]: The finances seem to come up as something we talk about with our friends, but couples don't necessarily talk about the really important financial
1:50
[SPEAKER_01]: questions, right?
1:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And I, I've personally have, I'm really uncomfortable talking about money.
1:55
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know about you, Julie.
1:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, just uncomfortable talking about anything like splitting and like who's responsible for what?
2:01
[SPEAKER_01]: So today we're going to get to the bottom of it all.
2:04
[SPEAKER_01]: We have Joe Gavasa here.
2:06
[SPEAKER_02]: How is everyone doing out there?
2:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey.
2:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And you look super credible because you have a blazer on and
2:12
[SPEAKER_01]: pants.
2:13
[SPEAKER_01]: So, and a black binder.
2:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And a black binder.
2:16
[SPEAKER_01]: To me, if you have a laser and pants and a binder, you're a pretty legit.
2:20
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought about showing up with help pants, but I didn't know how I was going to go over.
2:23
[SPEAKER_01]: So you didn't get the memo?
2:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And for anybody curious, how do we record these episodes were actually on the floor?
2:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, without our shoes.
2:34
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just like one of those situations.
2:37
[SPEAKER_01]: It's super zen, you know, we try to keep it casual and fun.
2:40
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's where we're at.
2:41
[SPEAKER_01]: But let's talk about money.
2:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to read this statistic really quick.
2:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Recording to city bank, 57% of divorce couples cited money problems as a primary reason for the demise of their marriage.
2:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Joe, what do you think about that?
2:59
[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't surprise me, actually, 40% of couples before marriage don't even talk about money.
3:04
[SPEAKER_02]: So people get to certain point in their relationship where they kind of build up all the stress.
3:12
[SPEAKER_02]: And then it comes out and it comes out as an argument because there's been no one's really laid any framework until then.
3:22
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, that doesn't surprise me at all.
3:25
[SPEAKER_01]: So why do you think people don't want to talk about it?
3:28
[SPEAKER_01]: What is it about money that makes people uncomfortable?
3:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Growing up, I feel like people have told us our whole lives that you don't talk about what money and religion are currently in politics exactly.
3:39
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's a part of it.
3:42
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think that we have to give ourselves a little bit more credit and start to observe and discover what people's goals are
3:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe we're not doing such a great job doing that identifying and setting goals early on.
3:59
[SPEAKER_02]: I think if you set goals early on, get aligned, then maybe that 52% of people could have had a better outcome.
4:08
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess an issue when it comes to dating and money is that when you first start dating someone, their money is their business.
4:15
[SPEAKER_01]: My money is my business.
4:17
[SPEAKER_01]: At what point does their money become my business as well?
4:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly and that's pretty much a feeling, isn't it?
4:25
[SPEAKER_02]: In the beginning, you're dating someone and guess what, that person that you're dating?
4:31
[SPEAKER_02]: owns all their own bad habits, right?
4:33
[SPEAKER_02]: I own all of my bad habits and I own all of my good habits and they own all of their good habits.
4:38
[SPEAKER_02]: But at some point in the relationship, if you're getting serious, you kind of have to identify a point where you say, if we're going to get serious and this is going to go any further, then I might need to observe some sort of habits that this person has and maybe bring up a couple of topics.
4:58
[SPEAKER_02]: because it doesn't have to be, the money conversation doesn't have to happen all at once.
5:03
[SPEAKER_02]: It can be brought up subtly.
5:06
[SPEAKER_02]: And so it's not really a subject that you just blurred out unless you really know each other, which is fine because some people actually do that.
5:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
5:16
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's like breaking the ice.
5:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Once you bring it up, then you can just bring up anything.
5:20
[SPEAKER_02]: There are general ways to break the ice.
5:22
[SPEAKER_00]: What are some ways that you would suggest like to someone if you're just starting to date someone, some ways to kind of scope it out without being overtly obvious?
5:31
[SPEAKER_02]: So my recommendation for people that are just starting to date someone is only to observe their habits.
5:38
[SPEAKER_02]: When you find out that you actually want to be with somebody,
5:42
[SPEAKER_02]: It's starting to get serious, just saying, wow, I can actually have a future with this person.
5:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Right at that cusp where things are starting to turn.
5:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe open yourself up, reveal something about yourself, and tell them a little bit about you.
5:59
[SPEAKER_02]: I've given examples to clients, maybe casual in conversation, bring up something about, oh, I kind of updated my budget today,
6:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I enrolled in my 401k, or I increased my contribution to my 401k, you know, just bring up the topic casually and see kind of what takes.
6:18
[SPEAKER_00]: If they're like, what's a 401k or if you're like, I get your view to mine too.
6:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I know couples bring up money at least when they're dating.
6:26
[SPEAKER_01]: It's either in the terms of they have an abundance of it or they have a lack of it.
6:31
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's kind of like,
6:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I got a promotion today, or I'm so broke, but nobody ever talks about their money management with each other, which is kind of important to talk about.
6:40
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's super interesting as people, especially women, always judge men based on their job and how much they make and all of that, but they don't think about their habits and it's not just how much you make, but it's like your earning potential and how you actually spend that money.
6:57
[SPEAKER_02]: you kind of nailed it right there.
6:59
[SPEAKER_02]: It's all about the mindset.
7:01
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's the key to the formula.
7:04
[SPEAKER_02]: In my opinion, when you're talking about goals as a couple, the goals that have or our product of any type of money and mindset, you really need to know where the person stands in terms of income and savings and debt, but most importantly, what their mindset is.
7:26
[SPEAKER_02]: because if they know how to budget, if they're not running up 30 or $40,000 on their credit card and making the minimum payment or 80,000 or whatever depends on where you're at my friend, right?
7:38
[SPEAKER_02]: If they're not coming into relationship with those hurdles, then maybe you can really build together and not to say that's, by the way, someone can't overcome that.
7:52
[SPEAKER_02]: But they've got to be able to, they've got to be able to commit to a plan and a line goals with you.
8:01
[SPEAKER_01]: So before we go into money rehab, what are some red flags that people can pay attention to in terms of what you're saying mindset and behaviors?
8:12
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, in the beginning, you clearly don't want to be with someone who's bouncing or getting their credit card declined at
8:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's just a sign of poor money management, okay, and it happens to everybody, I get it at some point in their life and hopefully it's not the one time you're taking out this amazing person and you're so stressed out you forget to pay your credit card bill, oh my goodness, and by the way, you spent $300 instead of $80 because you guys are having such a great time and it just puts you over.
8:47
[SPEAKER_02]: I get that, that happens, but if it becomes like a consistent thing where, or if somebody's borrowing money from you, or they just seems to be leaning on you quite a bit early on, I mean, who really does that?
9:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Most people like to go into relationship standing on their own, so those are some red flags early on.
9:05
[SPEAKER_00]: I think one other thing, like you could also observe how they're spending money on you, because especially from a man to a woman, usually it's not the reverse, so it's harder.
9:16
[SPEAKER_00]: And the moment it sounds like amazing like I'm going on all these fancy trips, I'm doing all this stuff.
9:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Guess if someone can support that, then that's great, but there's also a chance that they're rocking up dead doing that type of stuff.
9:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I have these, these two friends, they're married to each other, but when they were dating, she was very much.
9:36
[SPEAKER_01]: enamored by the way he was spending on her.
9:39
[SPEAKER_01]: He would take her out to elaborate dinners, elaborate theater shows, buy her gifts.
9:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And after they got married, she ended up having to help him pay for his debt, because not only was he whining and dining her, but he also was whining and dining the women before he met her.
9:56
[SPEAKER_02]: And after they got married,
9:57
[SPEAKER_01]: that after they got married and she ended up paying for debt.
10:00
[SPEAKER_01]: So I actually hear the story happening a lot where couples don't know each other's debt situation and then they get married and they're like, wait, you're $50,000 in the whole and I have to help you pay for that.
10:12
[SPEAKER_01]: How do you bring up this, you talk about debt?
10:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, how do you bring that up?
10:19
[SPEAKER_02]: It's pretty much the same way you reveal it, just reveal yourself first.
10:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
10:23
[SPEAKER_02]: And it depends really on
10:25
[SPEAKER_02]: where the relationship is.
10:26
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're early on, you reveal yourself.
10:28
[SPEAKER_02]: But before you get married, if you're not willing to put everything on on the table, there might be a problem.
10:34
[SPEAKER_02]: So if you are so serious and you think marriage is in the future, maybe you're engaged, maybe you're not, but you're serious.
10:43
[SPEAKER_02]: At the end of the day, why shouldn't you be able to say, hey, let's set a date, I need to know about a few things.
10:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
10:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Have a drink, have a cocktail, and just lay it out.
10:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I've noticed that student debt is the least sensitive debt for people to talk about.
10:59
[SPEAKER_01]: That's actually a good way to bring up debt.
11:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I just plate paid off the last of my student loan bills.
11:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
11:05
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like an accomplishment.
11:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
11:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I have no more debt.
11:09
[SPEAKER_01]: What about you?
11:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you have any student loans that you're paying off?
11:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
11:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
11:13
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a good way because people aren't as sensitive about that.
11:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
11:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
11:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
11:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Because it's common to get someone that has student debt.
11:22
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, this is the way we all get through school, right?
11:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it comes down to conversations about being spenders or savers to like how you actually manage that money.
11:31
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a mindset.
11:32
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a mindset you're talking about.
11:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely mindset.
11:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
11:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Are you the type of person who has to put away a little bit each month from your paycheck or are you the type of person who likes to spend to the max?
11:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
11:45
[SPEAKER_00]: It might be just spend your whole paycheck and you're living paycheck to paycheck or you're in debt.
11:49
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't
11:50
[SPEAKER_00]: It could be either of the book, either or.
11:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And a good way to bring that up is that I've seen people bring up their parents.
11:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, my parents are major savers, which is true.
11:59
[SPEAKER_01]: My parents save and I feel like they're not enjoying life as much because they're saving so much.
12:05
[SPEAKER_01]: How do you feel about that?
12:06
[SPEAKER_01]: What are your thoughts on that?
12:09
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I've heard that quite a bit and I feel like for some reason.
12:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Generations are a little bit different than their parents.
12:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Generations definitely many people out there We'll take their parents strategy and stride and kind of go with it.
12:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but then a lot of them will say well My life is different.
12:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, this is the way I'm gonna live it like I think I consider myself a saver But I also don't like save to the max that I'm like non-join life.
12:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
12:38
[SPEAKER_00]: My parents like I was saved to the max So it could be like an opener that like yeah, I inherited this
12:43
[SPEAKER_00]: trait from my parents, but I also saw how it was a disservice to them.
12:48
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to just have like a more fluid conversation definitely.
12:51
[SPEAKER_02]: And sometimes it has to do with, you know, the way where people are in the world.
12:56
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, everybody's got these fixed costs, right?
12:58
[SPEAKER_02]: We all have a roof overhead.
13:00
[SPEAKER_02]: We all have to get, we all have to eat.
13:01
[SPEAKER_02]: We all have to do certain things.
13:03
[SPEAKER_02]: And we've got our variables, especially with your parents.
13:06
[SPEAKER_02]: You've got children arrays, right?
13:08
[SPEAKER_02]: They've got children arrays.
13:10
[SPEAKER_02]: being single in a big city or small city, you know, we definitely have to have a roof over ahead.
13:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I have to eat, but we have some leeway here.
13:22
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I don't know if you guys know, but
13:24
[SPEAKER_02]: So raise a child these days, it's $235,000.
13:28
[SPEAKER_02]: So raise a child for zero to 18 years old.
13:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, little fucker.
13:33
[SPEAKER_01]: My answer just takes you away from it.
13:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And you're like, you owe me $200,000.
13:37
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think that's a good point though.
13:39
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like in a big city, though, like someone might not have much savings.
13:44
[SPEAKER_00]: But it doesn't necessarily mean that they're like not equipped long-term, like you and them could get together.
13:51
[SPEAKER_00]: And you guys can move somewhere
13:52
[SPEAKER_00]: more financially affordable and like have a different lifestyle.
13:56
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know if you can like necessarily judge people solely on like savings and some of like the hard stats anymore.
14:02
[SPEAKER_02]: True.
14:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess we can't really judge people at all when you're just dating them because you're not combining your lives yet.
14:10
[SPEAKER_01]: So what are some ways that we can make our own financial situations more robust?
14:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, here's the thing.
14:18
[SPEAKER_02]: money and having a great job and being a hard worker are part of the formula, but it's entirely superficial.
14:31
[SPEAKER_02]: So the main key is that you have to have the mindset.
14:36
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what's not superficial.
14:38
[SPEAKER_02]: So you have to have the habits, the good habits, the, okay, guess what?
14:47
[SPEAKER_02]: a little bit saved for my emergency fund.
14:50
[SPEAKER_02]: And I put a little bit towards my retirement and guess what, I can go to concerts and travel a little bit as well because I've got all of that balanced out.
15:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Totally.
15:03
[SPEAKER_02]: So what's most important is not really the job and the money, but it's the mindset.
15:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, because you could lose it all tomorrow.
15:11
[SPEAKER_00]: You could lose it all tomorrow.
15:12
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's why judging someone
15:17
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't mean anything.
15:19
[SPEAKER_00]: It's all like how they manage it.
15:20
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think to your point, which I agree with, it's like if you want someone that's financially responsible, you're gonna do it yourself.
15:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
15:28
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't expect someone to save you.
15:29
[SPEAKER_01]: So what are some of those good habits that we should be practicing?
15:33
[SPEAKER_02]: The number one thing is everyone should have a budget.
15:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Everyone should know.
15:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Monthly?
15:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And only?
15:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Monthly.
15:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
15:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
15:41
[SPEAKER_02]: You're gonna have unexpected expenses, no matter what everyone does.
15:46
[SPEAKER_02]: And so you take out your budget monthly, figure out where your costs are, and in your budget, you should be trying to achieve a savings, a savings account, I should say, that is equivalent to six to nine months of all of your expenses.
16:08
[SPEAKER_02]: So if you know what your budget is for your month,
16:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Right?
16:12
[SPEAKER_02]: What your expense is?
16:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Multiply that between six months that's your minimum that you should have.
16:18
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's not your savings account.
16:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I've always heard earnings.
16:21
[SPEAKER_01]: You're a six months of your earnings.
16:23
[SPEAKER_01]: But you're saying six months of your expenses.
16:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
16:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Imagine.
16:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Makes sense if you lost your job.
16:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, how could you support yourself?
16:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Having that savings account is empowering.
16:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, totally.
16:35
[SPEAKER_02]: You don't have to take the next job that comes your way.
16:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to go back to when you were talking about allocation.
16:40
[SPEAKER_01]: How do you feel about, because people always complain dating is so expensive.
16:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Going on dates is expensive.
16:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Women are like, I have to get new dresses and make up in all that and men are like, I have to pay for these drinks and dinners.
16:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Should people be allocating money in their budget for dating?
16:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
16:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And how much of their annual income were monthly?
17:00
[SPEAKER_00]: That's probably up to that, right?
17:04
[SPEAKER_02]: That should be a portion of their entertainment income.
17:08
[SPEAKER_02]: And I can't really give you a percentage because you have to know what their fixed costs are gonna be.
17:14
[SPEAKER_02]: How much, what are the things that you have to meet?
17:17
[SPEAKER_02]: You have to pay rent, you have to pay your mortgage, right?
17:20
[SPEAKER_02]: One of the other, you have to eat.
17:23
[SPEAKER_02]: You have certain things you have to pay for.
17:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Figure out in your budget with those things that are must-haves, right?
17:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And,
17:34
[SPEAKER_02]: then see what your variable costs are.
17:36
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you have to make some adult decisions.
17:37
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, do you want to go to the baseball game with your buddies?
17:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Or do you want to allocate a little bit more entertainment money to a date with, you know, that's amazing woman you bet.
17:49
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, what do you want to do?
17:51
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's where the adult decisions come in.
17:54
[SPEAKER_02]: But at the end of the day, no matter what you decide, it should be that you've met your budget.
18:04
[SPEAKER_02]: a little bit of savings in your, in your, in your budget.
18:08
[SPEAKER_01]: This is one of the complaints that I just cannot stand hearing, which is.
18:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Dating is so expensive.
18:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like, you know, I always like spend so much money on dating.
18:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, then you should stop going on all these dates that go nowhere.
18:21
[SPEAKER_01]: I think people need to be smarter when it comes to dating and spending money on dates.
18:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't go out on a date with everyone that you match with online.
18:31
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, people need to be more selective.
18:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And when your entertainment budget runs out, stop going on dates.
18:37
[SPEAKER_01]: That's actually a great way to do more.
18:42
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't want people to think that you're having a money, but you could do like more cheaper, like coffee dates or park dates as the initial date, and then once they're like someone you wanna invest in, step it up.
18:53
[SPEAKER_00]: but then you run into issues that people think you're broke because you're suggesting to go back to yours.
18:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what you're doing with that one.
19:00
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm just gonna throw this out there.
19:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I know we're talking about money and dating, but at the end of the day, we're not really dating someone for their money, right?
19:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Because again, that's more of a superficial thing.
19:13
[SPEAKER_02]: But you can get creative, right, and you can do whatever you have to do in terms of like having fun and getting to know somebody.
19:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Because that's what really, that's what dating is all about, really, right?
19:24
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just like getting to know their personality, getting to know their mindset.
19:28
[SPEAKER_02]: And I've gone on, so I'm engaged, right?
19:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I forgot to mention that.
19:35
[SPEAKER_01]: That's fine.
19:37
[SPEAKER_02]: But we,
19:39
[SPEAKER_02]: have no problem going out to buy dinner, but we choose sometimes, like take an urban hike or go to the Japanese tea garden, right?
19:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Or make dinner, or all these other fun, fun types of dating experiences.
19:57
[SPEAKER_02]: And early on, and by the way, these types of dates shouldn't be just early on or in the first few days,
20:08
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, you have to have that sort of balance.
20:10
[SPEAKER_02]: You have to be able to, you know, do the creative stuff.
20:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
20:13
[SPEAKER_02]: And maybe.
20:16
[SPEAKER_02]: will hopefully be able to do like go to a charity event but maybe buy something off the, off the, you know, silent auction block or just go out and have a good dinner or birthday dinner.
20:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you want to, but isn't it interesting that we're dating and then relationships in the beginning of we're dating, you want to shower each other with as many, you know, impressive things is possible.
20:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And then once you're in a couple hood, you are trying to find ways to save money together, right?
20:49
[SPEAKER_01]: It kind of goes like that.
20:51
[SPEAKER_01]: In the beginning, you want to overspin and then once you're comfortable with each other.
20:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
20:55
[SPEAKER_00]: People think they need to press.
20:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, in the beginning, but then when they're in a couplehood, it's kind of like, okay, we're in this together.
21:03
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's talk about that now, where if someone's in a relationship with, if two people are in a relationship and they're talking about and thinking about a future together, what are some ways that couples can handle their finances?
21:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I know there's joint accounts.
21:18
[SPEAKER_01]: separate accounts.
21:19
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you suggest?
21:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, right.
21:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you know, just going back to, you know, when we first start dating, of course, we want to court each other, you know, of course, of course we do.
21:28
[SPEAKER_02]: And we're going to have a good time.
21:29
[SPEAKER_02]: And we're going to try and not be for me personally.
21:32
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to try not be that boring saver because I'm a financial advisor.
21:36
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's just what I do.
21:37
[SPEAKER_02]: right so I'm gonna have a lot of fun but I'm gonna try and mix it up but later on down the road you know there's these common goals that have to be addressed you know what we want to do for the rest of our life we're just gonna continue like going to Vegas on a whim or or what so probably not by the way probably not
21:58
[SPEAKER_01]: But what about spending habits?
22:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Should you have sort of the same?
22:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Should you and your partner have the same spending habits?
22:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Like the savers and savers work well.
22:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the spenders and the spenders.
22:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so this kind of goes all together.
22:11
[SPEAKER_02]: For one, most couples will compromise, right?
22:15
[SPEAKER_02]: You can kind of bring it in a little bit.
22:18
[SPEAKER_02]: But a saver is gonna get super frustrated with someone who's a spender.
22:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Remember, yes.
22:29
[SPEAKER_02]: And a spender is going to go on spend and just feel like the savers boring and there's going to be a conflict You have if you can't come to a conclusion Then then it might not work out, but guess what I mean pulling pulling things together doesn't have to be 50 by the way if you're aligned with your goals, you can make it 70 30 depending on the
22:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe somebody makes more money and they don't care.
22:55
[SPEAKER_02]: They want to go and spend money, right?
22:58
[SPEAKER_02]: But in terms of like a joint account and how finances are dealt with, you know, I don't know if I mentioned this before, but 42% of people that have joint accounts also have individual accounts, okay?
23:13
[SPEAKER_02]: And the traditional way of having a joint account or when you get married, right?
23:23
[SPEAKER_02]: bring everything together and that kind of gives people a comfort and it's a symbol of unity which I understand.
23:33
[SPEAKER_02]: But today's environment we have Venmo PayPal all sorts of different
23:40
[SPEAKER_01]: You see ways to like cringe when I see my friends them oing their husbands or their wives It makes me cringe.
23:47
[SPEAKER_01]: I just don't get it, but I'm also from a very traditional household where I think your income should you know You should just have a joint account, but in today's environment like you're saying what's happening is like as we get married later in life
24:00
[SPEAKER_01]: We feel like we really earned that money.
24:03
[SPEAKER_01]: We made before meeting that person.
24:06
[SPEAKER_01]: So when you join accounts, it's kind of like, well, you don't earn what, you know, you don't really deserve what I made in the last 36 years.
24:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And I've also had friends who have assets and they have real estate or they have inheritance.
24:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And once they get married, they have a hard time saying, well, this is also my husband's or this is also my wife's.
24:29
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you have to say about that?
24:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, first I think you should do a whole segment on.
24:34
[SPEAKER_02]: If I'm married, should I then, though, my spouse and dinner?
24:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you do you?
24:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to know.
24:41
[SPEAKER_02]: No.
24:41
[SPEAKER_02]: That's actually no.
24:43
[SPEAKER_00]: It is.
24:43
[SPEAKER_00]: I know.
24:44
[SPEAKER_00]: If that works with a couple, then that works, right?
24:47
[SPEAKER_02]: No, but there's also the more modern way where if you find a goal, you get a goal, you determine where your goals are, basically the beginning, if you're living together, right, and you're renting, you have rents a pay, and you have groceries, and PG&E, and cable,
25:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe it's not such a bad idea to set up a joint account and put up a little bit of money every month that account to start for joint expenses.
25:11
[SPEAKER_02]: For joint expenses, exactly.
25:13
[SPEAKER_02]: And once you've met all of those, then you have your separate accounts, which is seems to be the way things are going these days.
25:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Just at a curiosity, here's a question, you have a joint account with all your joint expenses.
25:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to take you out to dinner for your birthday.
25:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Where does that money come out of?
25:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Join a account or my account.
25:32
[SPEAKER_02]: That's definitely a personal preference.
25:36
[SPEAKER_02]: My fiance and I pay for it from our own accounts.
25:39
[SPEAKER_01]: If it's like treating the other person.
25:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
25:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure it works.
25:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, every couple's different, how they figure out things, how they make a work is very different.
25:48
[SPEAKER_01]: But what are some common problems you see in couples who come to you?
25:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And some of the conflicts that they see that they didn't really see early on in their relationship.
25:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, sometimes it's just really hard to align the goals and how to achieve them.
26:02
[SPEAKER_02]: And so they come to me and they say, you know,
26:06
[SPEAKER_02]: This is what we want to do.
26:07
[SPEAKER_02]: These are goals.
26:08
[SPEAKER_02]: We want to buy house.
26:09
[SPEAKER_02]: We want to have kids.
26:11
[SPEAKER_02]: This is what we make.
26:13
[SPEAKER_02]: How do we go about it?
26:15
[SPEAKER_02]: And so they come to me to determine what their goals, what their goals are financially, because we'll set them up with what the averages are, what they exactly what they specifically want to do.
26:29
[SPEAKER_02]: and then we'll determine what they want, other things are like just keeping them on target budgeting and we've talked about this before a little bit but how to make important financial decisions and some of them just want to roadmap they literally just want to come in like get a financial plan and take it on their own a lot of them want handholding.
26:52
[SPEAKER_02]: So in those times what we do is we set
26:58
[SPEAKER_02]: kind of dictate, hey, this is what you need to do.
27:00
[SPEAKER_02]: I know your situation.
27:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's get everything structured, and it turns out to be where, you know, in this day and age, everything's automatic.
27:08
[SPEAKER_02]: So bank accounts, you get your paycheck.
27:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Things go in certain accounts, certain things are paid.
27:13
[SPEAKER_02]: So it could be that easy, but some people just want to roadmap it.
27:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Has anybody ever come to you and said, we're really facing this problem now, but we didn't realize this was an issue.
27:26
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's more like one partner definitely knows there's an issue and they want to give a picture to their other partner what it looks like.
27:38
[SPEAKER_00]: So people are on the same page.
27:39
[SPEAKER_02]: They're not on the same page, so they're coming one, one is a save or one's a spender, right?
27:46
[SPEAKER_02]: They come in and they, we put all the information together for them, we present it in a financial plan
27:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
27:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And also, I think it's important to talk about how everything is relative, so in spending habits, you may be a saver in your own mind, right?
28:07
[SPEAKER_01]: But it also be a spender relative to your partner, right?
28:11
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's not one of the other, like there's, I think there's spectrums of the whole thing I'm assuming, right?
28:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, absolutely.
28:18
[SPEAKER_01]: So how can we, so where we have some tactics, obviously your goals need to be aligned.
28:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the goals discussion is something that can happen earlier on in a relationship.
28:29
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't have to be financial goals.
28:31
[SPEAKER_01]: But you know, people talk about, I want to be married with kids in a house.
28:35
[SPEAKER_01]: How are we gonna get five or 10 years?
28:37
[SPEAKER_01]: We're gonna be in five, 10 years.
28:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And that could be part of that discussion.
28:40
[SPEAKER_01]: It's how are we gonna finance this, right?
28:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
28:44
[SPEAKER_01]: What are some really sensitive areas
28:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Have a hard time talking about with you.
28:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, income and debt.
28:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Easily those are the first two.
28:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, okay.
28:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
28:55
[SPEAKER_02]: And I know that they're very sensitive subjects subjects because people don't necessarily want to talk about how much they've wrecked up if they have but at the end of the day,
29:08
[SPEAKER_02]: you have to start from somewhere.
29:10
[SPEAKER_02]: So nobody should be embarrassed by it, by the way.
29:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
29:13
[SPEAKER_02]: You're starting from today, when you're creating your financial plan and creating your goals, what you do is find out, this is how much debt I have, this is how much income I have.
29:25
[SPEAKER_02]: This is my starting point.
29:27
[SPEAKER_02]: This is not my end-in point.
29:29
[SPEAKER_02]: So this is what I'm working off of.
29:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Let me knock down my dad, let me increase my income,
29:36
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, there's multiple ways of doing all of that, so I'm sure we're not going to go into it here, but you need to gain plan.
29:43
[SPEAKER_02]: You need to gain plan and get your mind around your financial situation in order to be, maybe confident and go out and.
29:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to pose a question to you before we go into takeaways.
29:57
[SPEAKER_01]: So I find this very culturally different than what I grew up with.
30:01
[SPEAKER_01]: I was born and raised in China in China.
30:06
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to first present your pay steps of how much you make.
30:10
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to own a house and you have to own a car from men for men.
30:14
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is why there's an issue in China now because real estate is so expensive.
30:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Cars are so expensive that there's a lot of single men because they don't have these basic requirements.
30:26
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, for they argue that, you know, I rather find this out in the very beginning than start dating them, having feelings for them and realizing that we can't really build a life together.
30:39
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you think about that, just get it all over with in the very beginning?
30:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
30:45
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm gonna refer back to what we said before.
30:48
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's...
30:50
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's amazing number one, but I also think that all that stuff can be superficial because you can lose your job, you can lose your house, feel bankrupt, you can lose all of these things that you've done.
31:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you have the mindset to continuously, month after month after month, structure your life, structure your budget so that you can be successful?
31:17
[SPEAKER_02]: And by the way, if somebody uses all of that, most people that know how to structure their lives and budget will bounce back.
31:27
[SPEAKER_02]: They can make it again.
31:29
[SPEAKER_02]: They can make it again.
31:30
[SPEAKER_00]: You can get totally.
31:31
[SPEAKER_02]: But if you're a super big risk taker and you're
31:36
[SPEAKER_02]: you've taken on so much debt and you're just throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks generally, that doesn't work very well.
31:48
[SPEAKER_02]: So you've got to know who you're getting involved with.
31:50
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, is the person actually responsible with their assets?
31:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's my think that honestly, like we're going to take away, that is my biggest takeaway.
31:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's like
32:00
[SPEAKER_00]: all about the mindset and all about like scoping out what's a goal to someone and a priority to them because someone might not be thinking about having children and a family and buying a house and whatever may be or building a life with another person they may be just so in the now and like that might not work for you so it's like making sure that you're on the same page and it's not that one is right or wrong it's just a personality and what they
32:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think also when you have financial disagreements with your partner, it's more of a symptom of misaligned goals versus you know like people citing that it's a number one reason for divorce actually it isn't it's part of a deeper issue which is your goals aren't aligned right so we have to define goals in relationships even early on when even when just start dating someone.
32:49
[SPEAKER_01]: it's good to know what their five-year plan looks like or tell me what they want out of life what they want out of life and how more importantly how they plan on getting there anybody can say I want a million dollars and a horse and a car level but how how are you actually going to get there my second takeaway is mindset mindset you keep mentioning mindset and it's actually slowly making sense to me now it's
33:15
[SPEAKER_01]: behaviors that you can train your mind to do.
33:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's not that you have to already be born with this mindset.
33:24
[SPEAKER_01]: But what is the mindset you ideally want to have when it comes to your finances?
33:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's also good to know what your partner's mindset is.
33:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And the third takeaway which is related is that where we are financially today, we shouldn't be judging someone for their current status, because we're all works in progress, just like we are mentally works in progress.
33:45
[SPEAKER_01]: So where someone stands today financially is not as important as where they want to be in the future.
33:52
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's more important not so much judge them for maybe not having a job or not having like this house or car, but where do they want to be and how they plan or even debt like if they have it like it's not that they're a bad person and they're not someone you can do it's like how they plan to get out of it.
34:10
[SPEAKER_00]: If they disclose it, like, all of a sudden.
34:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, everyone's got to have a plan.
34:15
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's also applies to people who are very financially robust too.
34:20
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't just say, well, this person seems very well off right now that they're going to be this way in five years.
34:26
[SPEAKER_01]: They also need a plan.
34:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody needs a plan.
34:29
[SPEAKER_01]: So it goes for anybody who's lacking or they have an abundance.
34:34
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, well, I'm going to start getting my finances in order after this.
34:38
[SPEAKER_00]: It's all the mindset that I'm getting in my headspace.
34:41
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, actually, what other tactic that I have done recently that has been helpful is to like, for a week, see where you're spending money.
34:50
[SPEAKER_00]: So like, I realized how much money I spend in like Starbucks and like see if you can like cut down on areas that aren't as like imported or I realized all these reoccurring subscriptions I had.
35:04
[SPEAKER_00]: So like, it's really helpful just to see what's going on.
35:07
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll be in a picture.
35:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's not even judging or making a like budget from it is just seeing it then.
35:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
35:13
[SPEAKER_00]: So where you can cut.
35:14
[SPEAKER_02]: I put myself on a $100 budget per week.
35:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow, three times a year.
35:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Just a set, just a set.
35:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Just a few can do it.
35:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Just see if I can still do it.
35:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Just to get myself back into.
35:29
[SPEAKER_02]: be more frugal yeah and that doesn't include of course it doesn't include like of course got to pay my mortgage and all that but at the end of the day like I don't need to spend and we all go out to dinner and spend
35:41
[SPEAKER_02]: 40 bucks on sushi, or is that?
35:43
[SPEAKER_01]: At least.
35:44
[SPEAKER_02]: I literally try and eat with a hundred dollars.
35:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow, that's it.
35:48
[SPEAKER_01]: For a whole week?
35:49
[SPEAKER_02]: For a whole week.
35:50
[SPEAKER_01]: That's like my first series.
35:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know.
35:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Just have you heard of soyland?
35:55
[SPEAKER_02]: I just, I literally do it for myself, just to ground myself.
35:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's a great, that's a great tactic.
36:02
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like, I'm sorry, like a recommendation that everybody's going to do.
36:05
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, but it's a good exercise.
36:06
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what's sharing.
36:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you're, like, my ex-boyfriend, I'm so thankful for that.
36:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I feel people need to find what works for them.
36:13
[SPEAKER_00]: But just like, be more conscious.
36:14
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the other thing too, it's like thinking about the future at the same, it's hard when you're in the now.
36:21
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, but if you do want that stuff, like,
36:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I was going to say, I feel like I've always been financially responsible, but after this conversation, I just realized I never think about the future.
36:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm very reactive with the money, so I just save, or I spend.
36:37
[SPEAKER_01]: I save, or I spend.
36:38
[SPEAKER_01]: If I spend a little too much, I save.
36:40
[SPEAKER_01]: But I don't think about like, what am I saving for?
36:42
[SPEAKER_01]: What is my five-year plan, or three-year plan, or one-year plan?
36:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Back to your tactic though, my ex-boyfriend and I in New York, we used to do $100 weekends, so the two of us would have $100 for the entire weekend to live on, and it ended up being a really fun exercise because then we got really creative with things we could do as a couple.
37:04
[SPEAKER_02]: I've got some great in San Francisco, urban hike.
37:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Urban hikes are the best.
37:08
[SPEAKER_02]: There's the best.
37:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Fantastic.
37:10
[SPEAKER_02]: There's the city of seven miles across.
37:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Anybody can walk seven miles, right?
37:17
[SPEAKER_02]: And just do it.
37:18
[SPEAKER_02]: There's, oh.
37:19
[SPEAKER_02]: crazy amount of things to do on seven miles.
37:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know what else you should be doing when you're doing an urban hike, listening to our podcast.
37:26
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a great way to kill Todd.
37:28
[SPEAKER_02]: That is good to play.
37:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Good to play.
37:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Clearly.
37:31
[SPEAKER_02]: And while you're at it, go to www.gmail.com.
37:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Go to www.gmail.com.
37:38
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll be in today's video.
37:40
[SPEAKER_02]: You're just gonna look at everything.
37:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Everything that you could save buddy and your exercise on it learned all about everything It would be a little financial advisor and say that's get started after that son of mine You'll just be a better version of yourself.
37:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Why when you wanted to do it?
37:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel it But on a serious note if people do want to find you, they can go to govaz.com correct J-A-V-A Z-Z-A I love that last time and we'll link to your
38:08
[SPEAKER_00]: page as well so you can find it on our website.
38:10
[SPEAKER_02]: I would love to hear from you listeners.
38:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Definitely a little feedback even.
38:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you haven't done so yet, subscribe to the psychology of relationships today.
38:19
[SPEAKER_01]: So you don't miss an episode.
38:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Bye.