Latest / Mortgage Marketing Radio / Closing 300 Loans in Post COVID-19 World

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Closing 300 Loans in Post COVID-19 World · Mortgage Marketing Radio

0:00
In today's highly competitive mortgage industry, building profitable relationships with
0:04
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1:03
Hey there, listener.
1:04
What's up, Jeff?
1:05
As I'm for your host, your chief truth teller for this episode of Mortgage Marketing
1:08
Radio.
1:09
I'm glad you tuned in.
1:10
I think you're going to be glad you tuned in as well because this is a very special episode
1:15
and we are talking about how to stop chasing agents, get agents coming to you and one loan
1:21
officer's story about how she has adapted and overcome since COVID-19.
1:26
You're going to be excited to hear this one.
1:28
We get started in just a minute.
1:29
All right, all right, all right, welcome back everybody.
1:46
So glad you've tuned in.
1:48
We're doing something a little bit different today, normally what you hear if you're listening
1:52
to this on the podcast platforms, whether that's Apple, Spotify, Google Play, all the other
1:58
ones.
1:59
You know, you're listening to the audio only and what we've been doing for the last couple
2:04
of months is taking my weekly Facebook live show and actually turning that into a podcast.
2:09
So I'd love to know if you like that format, you can email me anytime podcast at mortgage
2:14
marketingradio.com, love to know your feedback in us doing the live show and you know, turning
2:20
those interviews into the podcast.
2:22
However, today we are doing something a little bit different than I'm going to tell you
2:26
about in just a moment, but before I do, have you heard two quick announcements I want
2:32
to share with you.
2:33
Number one, if you don't know by now, my brand new book is out.
2:38
Yes, yes.
2:40
Thank you.
2:41
Thank you.
2:42
I love it when there's a studio audience here, my new book Disruptor Die, How to Survive
2:47
and Thrive the Digital Real Estate Shift.
2:50
This labor of love, this baby I gave birth to, it was a year gestation period of research
2:56
and study and interviews and you know, trying to put together the truth about what's working
3:02
today in real estate and mortgage marketing.
3:05
Stories from loan officers that are succeeding online and off.
3:09
Stories from real estate agents that are doing the same is a book intended for you as a
3:13
loan officer to share gift to your real estate agents.
3:16
If you're an agent listening, it's a book that's ideally suited for you as well.
3:20
We walk through basically, you know, two parts to the book.
3:24
Part one is, right, the five trends that are driving the digital real estate shift and
3:28
then part two is, right, tactical and strategic.
3:31
How do we actually become a modern mortgage and real estate professional and adapt to the
3:36
digital real estate shift, which is here in a big, fast way and it's here, it's been accelerated
3:42
why because of COVID-19.
3:45
COVID-19 accelerated the rate of change with the digital real estate shift.
3:50
It has forced us in the mortgage and real estate space to adapt and learn these new modern
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communication tools, online tools, et cetera.
4:00
By the way, that's the number one skill I believe we all need today, always has been but
4:05
even so moving forward is to be excellent communicators using today's contemporary
4:09
tools.
4:10
And so we talk a lot about that in the book.
4:12
Anyway, you want to get the book.
4:13
Here's how you get the book.
4:14
You go to disruptordiebook.com, yep, you can either get it for free and I'll pay for
4:18
shipping.
4:19
I'm sorry, wait a minute, no, I'll send it to you for free.
4:23
You pay for shipping.
4:24
How's that for a deal, right?
4:25
Okay, so you're going to save about 15 bucks on the book if you want to go that route
4:29
or you can buy a direct from Amazon, both links are available at disruptordiebook.com.
4:35
And even more exciting is there is a free companion course that goes along with the book.
4:40
What is that?
4:41
A companion course along with the book?
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That's right.
4:44
You go by the book, either one of those options and you will get access to a series that
4:49
goes along with each chapter videos, downloads, checklists, handouts and ebooks and stuff
4:54
like that meant to help you navigate and walk through the book kind of chapter by chapter.
5:00
So that is included in part and parcel with every purchase of the book.
5:03
You can just go to disruptordiebook to get that, check it out, hope you like it.
5:09
Okay, my special guest.
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So here's why this episode is different.
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Number one, it's not from the live show.
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It is from a just a candid, frank, unprepared, unrehearsed conversation that I had with
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this person whom I've grown to really admire and just have a heart-centered connection with
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her.
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Who am I talking about?
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Michelle Castle, out of Sherman, Texas with guild mortgage, Michelle is an unbelievable
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human being.
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One who just oozes love and positivity and, you know, you get around some people, you're
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just better because of it.
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Michelle is one of those people for me.
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But Michelle also has an incredible story.
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First of all, she is a super mega producer woman, multiple awards and recognition in this
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business for multiple years.
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Let me just tell you that she is doing about 300 units a year through the ReFi boom with
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COVID-19.
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When I spoke to her in the month of May 2020, I think her team was going to close 100 units
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that month.
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But her personal production is about 30 units a month consistently.
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And she's in a tiny little town, Sherman, Texas, greater surrounding area over there.
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There's only about 300 agents in town.
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And Michelle, prior to COVID-19, was teaching classes, live in-person classes.
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Well, COVID-19 comes, right?
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That hits the pause and everything changes it.
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And so she had to adapt and she has.
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She's evolved, right?
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And two years ago, actually, is when she started teaching classes because one day, she
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woke up and she said, you know what, I'm tired of chasing agents.
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I'm tired of like having to reach out and pitch and find and sift and sort and maybe
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even cold call.
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So she had an epiphany about two years ago and decided to make a shift to actually leading
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with an educational platform.
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So she started teaching educational courses, some RCE, some are not.
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As COVID came and hit, no longer could she do that.
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So she quickly adapted to teaching them over Zoom.
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So now she's teaching virtual classes over Zoom and she's never going to go back.
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Now obviously that doesn't mean she'll never do in-person events and things like that.
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But her leading with classes is her number one source of business.
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She also has a private Facebook group of real estate agents, which she's had for a roughly
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nine years.
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You want to talk about, right?
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Advanced thought leader getting in front of it.
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Okay.
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She has virtually every single real estate agent in her town, that small town of 300 agents
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in her private Facebook group.
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So often I hear you loan officers asking about engagement.
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How do we continue to get engagement?
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How do we stay top of mind in a post COVID-19 world where people don't want to get together
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perhaps as often or feel like, wow, do I really have to?
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Can't we do this online, right?
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Guys, I've been preaching Facebook groups for a while now.
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We're helping our members do it over in our mortgage membership.
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We're helping our members do exactly what Michelle does with online educational classes.
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So here's my second call to action to you today.
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If you want to learn more about building an online educational platform that attracts
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agents to you, that creates a wide net attraction strategy.
8:14
So you can put agents in the top of the funnel and create conversations and relationships.
8:19
Go check out mortgagemarketing.pro.
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We have temporarily opened up membership again.
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It's not going to be open for long.
8:25
We are going to close it back down and change the model.
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Here's what I can tell you.
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It has never been more favorable than it is right now for you to look at becoming a member.
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The stories are endless.
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The success stories of loan officers succeeding.
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I've got hundreds of them.
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I don't hopefully have to convince you with a value of leading with an educational platform.
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So if you want to learn more, there's a short video I put up.
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Everything has been adjusted and pivoted for the online world now.
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It's post-COVID-19, helping you deliver online classes using Zoom,
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giving you the PowerPoint to slides and speaker notes,
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giving you the online feedback survey form with a calendar integration to set up calls
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for you with agents like virtually automatically.
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Hey, go check it out, mortgagemarketing.pro.
9:08
Okay, so back to Michelle.
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Michelle also, because she's now adapted her business to teaching online classes to real
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estate agents, she can now go outside of her area of Sherman, Texas.
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So now she's expanding into Dallas in larger markets.
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Why?
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Because she's doing it virtually online.
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She doesn't have to drive the two hours to go to Dallas.
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She can attract real estate agents with an educational platform from her entire state.
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And oh, by the way, you want to get licensed in other states?
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You can do that too.
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This is an amazing way.
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It's been COVID is there's a silver lining in there.
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And today's conversation is one of an example of Michelle, how she's leveraging that.
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So she does consistent classes every Wednesday, you know, I could go on and on.
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I'd rather let you hear her story about how she tells the story.
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But here's the thing I want you to know about this.
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Usually when I do a podcast interview, I have a pre-call conversation where I try to pull
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out some talking points, right, about the focus of our conversation.
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Michelle and I decided to do something differently.
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The conversation was she had already hit record from the moment we started.
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And so at one point in the conversation, we just decide to make our conversation the
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podcast interview, okay?
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So it's not like perfectly polished, it's real, it's authentic, and it's us just having
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a conversation in me being really curious and inquisitive about how is she conducting
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her business?
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How is she attracting business?
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How is she managing the deal flow, the lead flow and things like that?
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So I am thoroughly thrilled to be able to bring you this interview with the one, the only
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Michelle Castle without further ado.
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Let's get into this week's show.
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But she said a couple of things about you, one that you are big on education and lead
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with an educational platform.
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And if I recall, you've done some pivoting lately with COVID in that now you're doing
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a lot of online virtual classes and stuff for agents.
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Correct.
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And so that's what number one grabbed my attention because that's like in my willhouse,
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my passion as well as leaving with education.
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So I'd like to learn more about that.
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The whole point of this call is to maybe uncover a couple of talking points for the podcast.
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Right.
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So I did, you know, it's funny, COVID happened March 13th on an airplane, I'm going to
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Mexico.
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President's Club?
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President's Club Trip.
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And I knew when I left, when I came back, things were going to be different.
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But I didn't know how they were going to be different.
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All I knew was this was my one moment to go be, just go be.
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And that was the purpose of the trip is just to get away, shut everything down and just
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be because I did not know how we were going to pivot.
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But I knew we were going to need to pivot.
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And you know, the night before our last night there, of course, this was now a non-gill
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trip, but paid for by guild.
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And so we found in the resort is empty.
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I mean, there were ill people there and a few other families and that was it.
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So we're there, we're not bored, you know, we're having a good time, but yet it was just
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like that.
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It felt different.
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Yeah.
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It just felt different.
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So we ended up, one of the bartenders, we talked them into staying open late and we talked
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them into being able to just use their sound equipment and be our own DJ.
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And so we could just, you know, have a dance party and hang out at the bar.
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And we played that song, it's the end of the world as we know it.
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That was like the last song that we played before we all knew, okay, we got to go home
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tomorrow.
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It's going to be a new day.
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We don't know what it's going to look like.
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So knowing that I had just traveled through the airport and it's an international airport
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and I've been exposed to all these people and we don't know, you know, to what extent
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this virus spreads, all we know is, you know, everybody's a little worried.
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So I went to my link house to go quarantine.
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And I've got small grandchildren, so I'd rather than be around the family and be around
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everybody at the office, I went to our link house.
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So I picked up my video equipment.
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The only problem is my calendar is scheduled out months in advance.
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And so I have all of these events that I'm having to figure out how I'm going to shift
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and pivot and continue through all of the things that are on my calendar.
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So the pivot wasn't as strategic as it was just necessary in order to continue moving
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forward.
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So fortunately, everybody is dealing with the same thing at the same time.
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So for me, I teach a lot of classes and I do a lot of CE.
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Well, I had been wanting to do it virtually.
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I just had not, you know, people were just so used to being there in person that I couldn't
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make the mental shift and I didn't think they were ready for the mental shift.
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Now COVID, they don't have a choice.
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They want some CE hours that are sitting at home.
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There's nothing else to do.
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Let's just get educated.
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And at the same time, I thought that there's a lot going on that people need to know, not
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step by step, out of fear, but just be educated in the industry.
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And so it really, it wasn't, I had a Facebook private group already.
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Okay.
14:30
How many in that roughly, every agent's right?
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So it was a group that, honestly, I've had for nine years.
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Wow.
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You've got a Facebook group for nine years.
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Yes.
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But the problem is I wasn't really utilizing it because I didn't really know it's true
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purpose.
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Other than I knew I wanted a private Facebook group for their local realtors.
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And so what they had gotten used to posting on there is who hasn't and here's what I have.
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You know, so they post their properties on that.
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Needs and wants.
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Yeah, those things.
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Yeah.
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Well, so I decided, you know what?
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I need to change the name of this group.
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So I changed the name of the group to get everybody's attention.
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Hey, this is new.
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This is different.
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So I changed the name of the group and I changed the purpose of the group to be one to share
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knowledge information into educate.
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Okay.
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So all of a sudden that became like the go to for all information.
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And I still have not, I've kept it to our local group or local as in our associations
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got four, five hundred members.
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You take out the affiliates and there's probably three hundred fifty four hundred members.
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And that's how many people I have in my group.
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Where are you in the country?
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I'm a North of Dallas.
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I'm in a small area in North of Dallas.
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So like Irving North of that.
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Sure.
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So I'm in Texas.
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Okay.
15:55
And you only have about three hundred realtors in your board?
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Uh-huh.
15:59
Yeah.
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Well, that's pretty, pretty small thing.
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Yeah, it's a small.
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It's a small thing.
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But you got them all.
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Yeah.
16:05
Yeah.
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So that became like the place to go.
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Well, I also got a hold of Texas real estate commission and asked them what platform I needed
16:16
to use in order to continue to provide CE virtually.
16:20
Right.
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And so is what they are allowing for that.
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So I just should quickly shifted to all classes online.
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And then I also, so I do CE every two, every Wednesday at 10 o'clock.
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So on everybody's calendar now, that's the place to go on Wednesdays to be educated.
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And I also, on Fridays, I do a headlamp and I just started it as soon as I got back
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from Mexico.
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I started a real tour, headlamp, Fridays at one o'clock, just to give them the most
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updated information based on what has transpired during the week.
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So that's like market updates, forbearance stuff, all that, mm-hmm.
17:01
Right.
17:02
Okay.
17:03
So anyway, the CE classes, so I was trying to do, we thought we were going to go back
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to doing live classes as of next Wednesday, but we're still going to do on CE.
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So I do a 10 week series, training series for realtors that start with business planning,
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time management, lead, you know, building a referral based business and generate those
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leads, tracking those leads, all of that stuff, and we start that series next Wednesday.
17:32
Is that CE approved?
17:33
Yeah.
17:34
Every one of them.
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Um, and is it in our board, and our board office, if every, if people, if the agents attend
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all 10 classes, they'll get a free quarter of MLS dues.
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Um, what's the total CE credits they get for those 10 weeks?
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10, it's one, it's one hour classes.
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Okay.
17:54
And what are they pay for that?
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$10.
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$10 per class?
17:57
Okay.
17:58
Got it.
17:59
Nice.
18:00
You can manage the money side of that, or do you have help with that?
18:03
I manage it.
18:05
Um, well, my assistant, Rachelle manages it.
18:08
Yeah.
18:09
But you're collecting, you could cut cards or something?
18:10
Yeah.
18:11
No, I'm just doing bidmilling paypal.
18:13
Really?
18:14
Yeah.
18:15
Okay.
18:16
Venmo.
18:17
I paypal is cool because that's easier for you to manage.
18:20
Venmo, I don't know.
18:21
That's probably a little bit extra challenging.
18:23
Um, no, because you get a monthly report.
18:27
Okay.
18:28
I get the receipt and I can, you know, I mean, they've got to pay within 20 hours.
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We can turn in the paperwork and, and yeah, it's been easy.
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Wow.
18:35
That's amazing.
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10 week series.
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And you're leading each one of those.
18:38
Uh-huh.
18:39
Yeah.
18:40
You want to see a copy of it?
18:41
That's a lot of work.
18:42
Yeah.
18:43
Hang on.
18:44
I just had one of our, um, so you were doing that in person before the 10 week?
18:49
Yes.
18:50
Okay.
18:51
Got it.
18:52
You, do you think, um, by the way, of all the classes you do, are they all CE or some
18:56
are not?
18:57
All of them are CE.
18:59
Can you see?
19:00
Yes.
19:01
I have this is planning for success, controlling the chaos, effectively follow up, understanding
19:06
personality types, which is the test, um, understanding mortgage basics, pre-qual versus
19:11
pre-approval, and we'll go into COVID and forbearance and all of that, obviously, understanding
19:17
the title commitment because it is amazing.
19:19
I, I'll get, I, oh, that class will feel because most people don't even know how to read
19:25
the title commitment.
19:26
It's crazy.
19:27
It's dang thing ever.
19:28
Like, they don't even know schedule C exists.
19:30
It's, it's just nuts.
19:32
And then understanding the closing disclosures.
19:34
So, um, those are the classes that we're offering on this series.
19:38
Yep.
19:39
Guys, which one's an hour?
19:40
34 or 5678.
19:41
You know what?
19:42
They cut it by two.
19:43
It's normally 10 weeks, which the, the other, the other class that is, um, typically in
19:50
this.
19:51
So we do this twice a year.
19:53
And again, we were doing them live.
19:54
Now we're going, uh, virtual, um, you do a twice a year, but in between that, are you
19:59
doing other classes?
20:00
Every Wednesday, 10 o'clock.
20:02
Yeah.
20:03
All right.
20:04
I'm trying to follow.
20:05
Maybe I'm a little slow here.
20:06
It's kind of hot in Vegas.
20:07
Twice a year.
20:08
You do 10 weeks session.
20:09
10, 10, twice a year.
20:10
I do this course, but I change it up because remember, I can't do the same business planning.
20:18
There'll be a different business planning class because they can't, you know, I mean,
20:23
I, every, I have enough classes that they can come to the classes and the 10 week series
20:29
and, and still be able to get CE credit twice a year.
20:32
So I'll change this up enough that the cons so that they can still get CE.
20:35
Got it.
20:36
You got it.
20:37
So I do this series twice a year, but I'm still going to continue to do those Wednesday,
20:44
and when this series is over, I'll just have random classes, Wednesdays, 10 o'clock.
20:49
One of these or some other classes as well.
20:51
Other classes.
20:52
Got it.
20:53
Okay.
20:54
I have like various stuff, whatever.
20:55
Yeah.
20:56
I have 30 CE's approved.
20:57
Wow.
20:58
Really?
20:59
Yeah.
21:00
From what I might experience getting classes approved in Texas from somebody I know who
21:04
did it seemed relatively easy.
21:06
Very.
21:07
Yeah.
21:08
It's different in every state, but interesting.
21:13
But you know what?
21:14
That's good stuff, whether it's CE or not.
21:16
Well, I was always going to, I was going to say a lot of people like asked like I do classes
21:20
to them.
21:21
People are like, Hey, are your classes CE approved?
21:22
I'm like, No, but go get them approved in your own state and don't hang your hat on
21:27
CE.
21:28
Right?
21:29
It's the indicator.
21:30
Yeah.
21:31
You know what?
21:32
I have decided though, Jeff is I, I, I, I don't chase realtors anymore.
21:36
They're attracted to me.
21:37
Yeah.
21:38
I was putting your thing as well.
21:40
You changed the whole dynamic, right?
21:41
Because you used to do it.
21:42
Everybody else do chase, call.
21:43
Let's meet for coffee, all that stuff.
21:46
And so how long have you had this educational platform?
21:49
Two years.
21:50
Two years.
21:51
Wow.
21:52
Okay.
21:53
And that changed the game for you.
21:54
Yeah.
21:55
And what ends up happening is you'll have, you know, it doesn't for me.
21:59
This is a good way for me to within a series of classes.
22:03
You know who hasn't and who doesn't like who you want to do business with and who has
22:08
some potential and needs just a little bit of help in nurturing.
22:10
Yeah.
22:11
And I've always picked at least one, if not two agents that I can really help them build
22:17
their business and take it next level.
22:19
All right.
22:20
So that's a good kind of pivot then.
22:22
How do you take people and I know and so you've only been doing the online version since
22:25
COVID, right?
22:26
Right.
22:27
All right.
22:28
So take me back a step before when you were doing in person.
22:31
I'm going to guess, you know, having done this just like you, but what was, did you have
22:37
a very specific defined post class process for in person and then what's that look like
22:42
now?
22:43
Yeah.
22:44
So what we were doing is, you know, you'd have it twice in the series, I'd have a group
22:50
of three or four people that said, Hey, I want to continue doing something like this.
22:54
And I just set up for every other week.
22:56
We would get together in a small group and do a group coaching session with those agents.
23:02
And you would still just end up with the one or two that stick with it.
23:06
Yeah.
23:07
And those one or two that stuck with it are still folks that I help with in, you know,
23:12
building their business and market strategies and all of that stuff still to this day.
23:18
So now in this, I, and then I've had some that come to me and just say, Hey, listen, I
23:25
mean, they just become coaching sessions basically at that point.
23:28
You just pivot them to small group coaching, coaching sessions.
23:31
Yep.
23:32
Okay.
23:34
And then now are you doing small group via Zoom?
23:37
Yes.
23:38
Or at some point, are you invited people to join on your Facebook group too on my real
23:47
tour group?
23:48
Yeah.
23:49
I'm constantly looking for those agents in the, you know, that are in the community that
23:54
may not be part of the association that to send invites to you.
23:57
Yeah.
23:58
Oh, it's just like during your classes, when you teach C and all that kind of stuff, are
24:02
you putting that out there as a call to action?
24:03
Hey, if you're not a member of the, okay.
24:05
Yeah.
24:06
Oh, yeah.
24:07
It's, it's on my, it's on my regular Facebook page.
24:09
So anybody can join anywhere and what's your, you got everybody in there anyways?
24:13
Yeah.
24:14
But no, I mean, because it's virtual, I can be given CE credit anywhere in Texas now.
24:18
I do.
24:19
Right.
24:20
Ah.
24:21
Interesting.
24:22
So have you expanded them and gotten agents outside at Sherman?
24:24
Uh-huh.
24:25
Yeah.
24:26
So I've been expanding into the Dallas market that are not in that private Facebook group
24:30
because of the postings on Facebook and their Zoom.
24:34
So anywhere in Texas, they can be sitting in their kitchen on the table doing these CE classes
24:38
and get to know me.
24:40
And so you've gotten a few, like some new referral partners in Dallas because of this.
24:44
Yeah.
24:45
Yeah.
24:46
Um, very cool, very cool.
24:48
What about, um, there's a lot of questions popping up for me and it's funny because this
24:52
is the interview right here, right?
24:53
So I haven't recorded so here you go.
24:57
Oh, you do?
24:58
Uh, cool.
24:59
We're done then.
25:00
That's awesome.
25:01
All they need to do is put an intro and some editing.
25:04
We do.
25:05
I wish I had known I would have my better camera on right now, I got the lousy camera.
25:11
But anyway, um, okay, so where was I classes, how active are you personally in the Facebook
25:22
group?
25:23
Well, here, I'll just pull it up, you want to see it?
25:28
So I'm actually not in full interview mode.
25:32
But if you want to call this the interview and be done, it's your time's valuable, I'm
25:36
open to that.
25:37
It doesn't matter.
25:38
Whatever.
25:39
Um, you might, uh, you, you could, uh, since this is recorded, we could do another interview
25:45
and then you can cut and paste and do whatever you want with it.
25:48
Yeah.
25:49
Um, because I never say the same thing twice, so exactly, right?
25:54
But now that I think about that, I just might go like, uh, I mean, this is just my interactive
26:00
group.
26:01
But, you know, I had, I did a TikTok video on, hey, you got hand sanitizer who wants some
26:05
and have several people go, oh my gosh, I do.
26:07
But then they never kind of pick it up their bag and sanitize it.
26:11
Uh, so I see right here, you got a realtor here asking who would recommend an, an idea,
26:18
you know, so they're here to help each other.
26:21
Here's my, you know, update on the state of forbearance.
26:24
And you can see, I mean, pretty decent, uh, participation.
26:28
Here's someone looking for, oh, that reminds me, he's got a birthday today.
26:32
I gotta write that down.
26:33
Hey, hey, hey, um, for Colby, yeah.
26:37
So here's the thing.
26:38
All right.
26:39
I have a number of elbows that have some Facebook roots and there's varying levels of success
26:43
and engagement.
26:44
Like one gal, she does a great job and then other person struggles.
26:48
Um, any secrets off there, it looks like you're pretty active, right?
26:52
That's number one.
26:53
Um, well, number one, be active and be true to who you are.
26:57
I mean, that's what folks all the time talk post like he would be talking to somebody
27:01
and don't change it up.
27:03
Just be who you are.
27:04
And I think sometimes people try to be too formal and you, you can't, these are where
27:10
people get to know who you are.
27:11
So for you, are you going live inside the group or videos or anything like that?
27:15
I have some.
27:17
Hey, look at this virtual idea that I've had.
27:19
I'm not sure how I'm going to roll it out.
27:21
Can you see it?
27:22
Yeah.
27:23
So I'm not sure how I'm going to roll it out, but I think I think I'm going to do this
27:28
as an open room and Facebook and just post, hey, you've got any questions about buying
27:33
a home.
27:34
I'm, you know, my room's open for it's number of time.
27:37
Yeah.
27:38
And then just start doing that as a virtual for home buyers, not, not agents.
27:45
Yeah, but yes, I do sometimes do lives in here.
27:50
Mm-hmm.
27:51
Anyway, and the agents are pretty active in there.
27:54
Mm-hmm.
27:55
Yeah.
27:56
Yeah.
27:57
Great.
27:58
Okay.
27:59
So how now are you with the whole shelter and place thing?
28:03
How have you, well, what is your new post event process look like to drive conversations with
28:08
agents and get referrals ultimately, right?
28:13
Yeah.
28:14
I mean, for me, I wasn't that much out of my office already.
28:19
So it really hasn't changed for me, other than I'm not doing the classes in offices, I'm
28:23
just doing virtually.
28:25
So my conversations are still, I still text is a big thing for me.
28:31
Facebook messaging is a big deal for me, providing education and information on Facebook
28:36
and then just being through to who I am is a big deal for me.
28:40
So really, COVID hasn't changed my business that much.
28:43
Do you think you're going to go back to doing some in-person classes?
28:47
I will still always do virtual.
28:50
I've been wanting to shift to virtual anyway.
28:53
I think I'm going to, right now where I'm sitting at my desk, I think I'm going to have
29:01
a whole studio setup, it's more classroom studio, so I have my whiteboard and all of
29:07
that good stuff.
29:09
Go ahead and have a Bluetooth lapel and get my lighting and everything, and I'm just going
29:14
to go virtual for all of my classes so I can reach all of Texas.
29:18
I want to be the educator in Texas that everybody wants to take the class because it's fun
29:21
and they get a lot out of it.
29:23
Yeah, no, I applaud that, first of all, 100%.
29:27
What I'm thinking and asking is, using this educational platform as a top of the funnel
29:33
right for charging.
29:34
So for me, the engagement, you're right, it does make it a little bit more challenging
29:42
because I can't eye contact and have engagement with the Asia to pick those one or two that
29:47
I think get it.
29:50
So it is going to be a little bit more difficult to find those people to coach on individual
29:55
level, but now I get what your question is.
30:01
So that's, I don't know how I'm going to do that other than what I have found is that
30:11
I have like four people that I can think of right now that have attended all of my CE's
30:17
that I have not talked to in years that are now sending me business.
30:22
And so I've had a lot more conversations that with these agents and helping them off
30:28
the call and outside of the CE classes.
30:32
So the engagement is different.
30:34
The engagement now is more based on attendance and based on engagement chatting.
30:42
You know, and it is more of a challenge, you know, Jeff, you've been doing this for a
30:46
long time.
30:47
You know how hard it is to keep up with the chats and the engagement.
30:51
And then if you're going to stream live at the same time, you're trying to keep people
30:55
engaged here.
30:56
So it does become a lot more of a challenge and looking at the camera instead of looking
31:01
at the monitor and all of the things that you have to consider now.
31:05
Yes.
31:06
Because I got to look at the camera for eye contact, but I got to watch you for engagement.
31:10
Yeah.
31:11
Yeah.
31:12
Do you use the zoom meeting or webinar version?
31:15
I've been using meeting.
31:16
What is the webinar version?
31:17
Well, the meeting is obviously the Brady Bunch, right?
31:19
All the, you know, just keep on video.
31:22
Webinar takes all that away pretty much.
31:24
Okay.
31:25
I'm using the meeting so I can see everybody.
31:27
Exactly.
31:28
And I've asked a bunch of LOs, what do they prefer and they prefer that because you can
31:31
see everybody and it's more like you're actually engaged.
31:34
Right.
31:35
Now, you know, the other challenge.
31:36
So I also teach, I teach within our region and so the, the reason that I've continued
31:45
to do that is because I'll end up with 50 to 70 people on one call, so it teaches me
31:51
to not only watch the Brady Bunch screen, but the attendance over on the side too becomes
31:57
more of a challenge and then engaging them through chat, but still keep in the conversation
32:01
going.
32:02
So it is a challenge and it is different, but I will continue to do it because I don't
32:08
feel like I've mastered it and so I'll keep doing it until I think I figured it out.
32:13
But, but like prior to COVID, when you're doing the in-person classes, would you say for
32:17
our agent engagement and awareness in your local area, the, the classes was your number
32:22
one.
32:23
Oh, soverse.
32:24
Yeah.
32:25
Absolutely.
32:26
Yeah.
32:27
Yeah.
32:28
Okay.
32:29
And like you said, two years ago, you kind of shifted and pivoted.
32:30
No more chasing.
32:31
I'm going to do classes and attract people to you.
32:32
Right.
32:33
Okay.
32:34
I want to make a suggestion here.
32:35
I don't know if you've thought about this yet, but with the post zoom class, one way to
32:40
drive conversations with agents who may not know you yet, but you want to have a conversation
32:46
with them is what we've been doing is at the end of a zoom meeting, you can have a URL
32:51
redirect when that meeting ends and you can redirect them to your calendar or your calendar.
32:57
Okay.
32:58
They wanted a schedule time on your calendar for a trip.
33:00
Oh.
33:01
Okay.
33:02
All right.
33:03
Cool.
33:04
I did not know that.
33:05
Awesome.
33:06
So did you just put that little thing at the end?
33:07
Hey, if anybody wants to talk further, right?
33:08
I'm looking for a few select agents to partner with.
33:09
They'll be a link at the end.
33:10
Boom.
33:11
It comes up and that's all like just schedule time on my calendar, you know?
33:13
Awesome.
33:14
Kind of takes you out of the loop.
33:15
Yeah.
33:16
So we're testing that and that, you know, it's all about just getting to who wants to work
33:20
with you, you know?
33:21
Right.
33:22
Yeah.
33:23
And that's, you know, that's the one thing that I'm working on is we as salespeople want
33:26
to be everything to everybody.
33:28
Yeah.
33:29
Instead of being truly true to who we are and being, being okay with that and just attracting
33:35
more of who we enjoy doing business with instead of trying to do everybody.
33:40
Right.
33:41
I, that, for sure, hey, let me ask you this if I can and I don't know what, well, how
33:47
much time you had slotted for this because it's, it's not our, like, you know, I love it.
33:52
We're just going with the flow here.
33:53
But normally what I didn't collect this up front is and, and, um, give us a sense
33:57
or if anybody's listening, right, average, like units or volume production, everybody wants
34:04
to know that, of course, right?
34:06
So, um, my, I, I have hit at or above 300 units for the last three years, um, volume for
34:14
me is a little bit different because I'm in small, small town, USA, you know, anywhere
34:19
from 48 to 55.
34:20
Yeah.
34:21
For me, the, the, the bank spark is units anyways, no matter what.
34:25
Well, yeah, because that's what you got to scale to.
34:28
Yeah.
34:29
Exactly.
34:30
You know, the volume pays the bills, but the units determine how many people you need
34:33
to make it happen and still provide great service.
34:36
And what does your team look like in terms of, you know, how do you manage all that volume?
34:40
So I have a team, I have, I have four on my, I have four on the front end and then I have
34:46
a process or on the back end.
34:49
What does front end mean?
34:50
What do they do?
34:51
So front end for me is lead to contract.
34:53
So the, the front end lead to contract once the loans disclosed and we do our basic checklist,
34:59
it goes to processing and processing totally handles it from there.
35:03
And are you taking apps 10 or 3s or how's that?
35:06
I do not take any 10 or 3s.
35:08
I don't process any pre-cost or pre-curables anymore.
35:11
But a lot of that is because I mean, I'm just in that leadership role at this point,
35:15
which I'm loving.
35:17
And so that frees me up to lead the team.
35:21
I have a branch, I have satellites, so there's 30 of us in the office, or I've got 30,
35:26
32 now on the team, you know, with the branch.
35:29
And so that I take enough 10 or 3s and a process enough files that I know that that is not
35:37
the best use of my time anymore, it's not because I'm too good for it, I'm just out of
35:44
practice.
35:45
I'm just not as good at it.
35:47
Well, like you said, the key thing you said is everybody, you take notice you're at a
35:50
different role, you're in a leadership role, right?
35:53
You're building a business is what you are, you're not, you're not in sales per se.
35:57
And you know, let me just tell you this is one thing and I've got coaching calls all afternoon,
36:02
and I think the biggest struggle right now is I looked up, I'm staffed as a branch to handle
36:09
about 75 loans, 75 to 85 loans.
36:13
We're closing 154 this month.
36:16
So the leader in me goes, oh crap, I got to help everybody, I've got to do this, I got to do that.
36:23
And so then you jump into, you know, you think that you're helping and you're really not.
36:29
So this is the analogy that I was telling and all of the top producers that I've had
36:35
conversation with feel the same way, they just feel so bad for the team, they think they're
36:39
going to help the team out by jumping in and rescuing them and nobody's asked for a life
36:43
rat, right?
36:44
Right.
36:45
So the best thing you can do, I've hired, I've hired a coach, she's, she's a life coach,
36:50
but she specializes on that mom, mom coaching.
36:55
And so I've hired a mom coach at my teens on a call at noon today for an hour.
37:00
I don't know how much time you have for any of this conversation.
37:04
You can cut me off whenever, but once a week for one hour, just for the moms that are at home,
37:11
they've been struggling with the homeschool, they're working 12, 13 hours, they've got kids that
37:16
just want to be hugged and loved on and they want to hug and love on their kids, but yet this,
37:21
they've got to get this foul submitted by, you know, whatever time and they got all these,
37:25
you know, and they hear their phone going off, they hear emails going off, they hear team chat
37:30
going off and they're just an overload, right?
37:33
So it's that one hour they just totally shut it off and just, just go be and work on mindset
37:40
and mindfulness and, you know, learning that it's okay to self-care and shut it down.
37:48
And it's really like, I even, I told the team last night, listen, close down for two hours
37:54
in the middle of the day and go outside and play with your kids.
37:56
Go hug and love on those kids because they, you need them and they need you.
38:00
Yeah, I'm upset.
38:03
You're working at home right now.
38:05
You can't put it back on at 10 o'clock after you've taken care of your family.
38:09
That's, that's awesome.
38:12
But here is what I was thinking.
38:14
This is the analogy that I had.
38:16
You know the song, Ro Ro Ro Ro, you're about, right?
38:19
Well, you know, I was thinking that song was stuck in my head because
38:23
another friend of mine was singing the song and telling the story yesterday and so now it's
38:27
totally stuck in my head.
38:28
It's definitely stuck in yours too now.
38:31
The, whenever you're doing Ro Ro Ro Ro, you're about,
38:34
with you, really look at the history of, of the competition, Ro Ro Ro's, right?
38:39
They have, I can't remember the, the formal name, but it's the Cox.
38:44
The guy that, you know, is, right, sitting in that seat.
38:48
Yes.
38:48
And his job is to be in that seat and he's in that leadership role.
38:54
He's watching once ahead.
38:55
He's looking, let's be kind.
38:56
He's paying attention.
38:57
He's making sure everybody's in sync.
39:00
That's our job.
39:01
And for us to get out of that seat and go grab a row and start rolling too,
39:07
does not help the team, right?
39:11
Yeah, and that's as you know, that's a journey for people to get there.
39:15
And some people will never get there, right?
39:17
Because that's their own personal choice or whatever.
39:19
Yeah.
39:19
So you ask about production.
39:21
That's not, that is, that's not what my team needs for me.
39:24
Yeah, no, no, I get it.
39:26
No, I just, I just asked the question because it's, it put,
39:29
for me, it establishes that here you are, Michelle Castle,
39:33
like still sleeves rolled up, doing mega units and stuff.
39:37
And yet you're still leading from the front.
39:39
You're still clearly passionate about this.
39:41
What you, you're not passionate about taking loans, 10 or 3s, right?
39:44
You're passionate about the leadership role and changing people's lives,
39:47
both your team and the people you help.
39:49
Yeah, but that's that, you know, that's that conversation.
39:52
Sometimes those top producers need to hear that it's, it's okay.
39:56
I mean, like, you don't have to be apology.
39:57
You don't take 10 or 3s anymore.
39:59
And I still struggle with that.
40:01
Well, so, so that's also two more quick questions, I guess.
40:03
And then we'll wrap up one is the team concept.
40:06
And I don't know if Acadia mentioned this to me.
40:08
But oftentimes I hear L.O.'s struggle with the team concept
40:13
and people feeling like they, they, they aren't getting the,
40:15
they're not getting Michelle Castle.
40:18
Right.
40:18
You come, you come across that?
40:19
All the time.
40:20
So how do you deal with that?
40:22
So I, my conversation with that customer, you know,
40:29
if I've got an agent I've worked with forever or, or it's a new agent
40:32
and they say, Hey, I've got, I've got someone that really needs to talk to you.
40:36
I'll make that introduction phone call.
40:38
And that call is an introduction and an edification of my team
40:42
and edification of whoever referred them to me.
40:45
So it's just an introduction and edification
40:47
and then just make them feel special
40:50
that they're doing business with us.
40:52
And so I still, my tendency used to be
40:56
and still sometimes I'll go ahead and take some basic information from them.
41:00
But I'm still going to hand them off to the team
41:02
and edify the team and have them handle it from there.
41:05
So people still feel like they got me.
41:08
Now I can't do that for 150 people a month.
41:12
But I can when it's necessary and you know, I mean,
41:17
everybody thinks that they need me, but every one of the calls,
41:20
when people call in for me, it goes to Dylan.
41:23
And Dylan answers and says, I mean, that to the customer,
41:27
that was my extension.
41:28
And I was on another line and Dylan picked up
41:30
so that they didn't go to my voice now.
41:32
And then he knows how to handle that call
41:34
and just takes it from there.
41:36
And they discover real quickly that they need me in the first place.
41:40
What I'm hearing and I've heard this from other people at your level,
41:43
which is it's about setting the expectations up front with the partner and with the client
41:47
to know that this is my team and when the issues,
41:50
this is who you're going to be dealing with for this, this, this, and this.
41:53
So there's no like, hey, how come I'm not getting Michelle?
41:55
Well, maybe the expectations were set wrong.
41:58
Right. Exactly.
42:00
And then the other thing that we've been working on is like Dylan,
42:03
who's my front person, is doing the updates to the agents.
42:09
What's going on? So that you're hearing from him.
42:13
And I asked him to start sending videos to them.
42:15
We're really big with videos and bomb bomb.
42:17
Okay.
42:18
Start sending the videos directly to them to build that record.
42:22
So people get to know him.
42:25
That's brilliant.
42:25
So your frontline person is sending a one off bomb bomb video
42:29
about status update on Smith file.
42:31
Yes.
42:32
And then he's sending videos just, you know,
42:34
just regular marketing videos.
42:36
Hey, this is what we see going on right now in the market.
42:38
So it is not always about me.
42:41
Yeah, because at the end of the day,
42:44
if they trust the person on your team, they no longer need you.
42:49
So I think we just need to do a better job of edifying our team
42:54
and helping empower the team to build that trust with the referral partner
42:58
and build the trust with the client.
43:00
100% love that.
43:01
I have an applause button.
43:02
It's just not turned on, right?
43:03
So there's applause there.
43:04
All right.
43:06
So I think the last question is,
43:09
you're clearly, you've taken another people I've interviewed again
43:13
with top producers, right?
43:14
Not everybody, but I do see a recurring trend of like Oleg,
43:18
obviously one of your colleagues out on the West Coast.
43:22
Basically is of the same,
43:25
you know, Ilk, if you will, that you are,
43:26
which is, you know, he's common, I don't remember exactly,
43:30
but was like, you know, we need to become coaches
43:33
for real estate agents.
43:35
And some elbows question that, disagree,
43:39
struggle with it.
43:41
What do you say to that?
43:45
Well, each realtor is unique in their own way,
43:49
and they have their own, you know, experience in history.
43:55
So many of them do not have the experience of running a business.
43:59
And that's what they're doing.
44:01
And so if that's your skill set,
44:05
teach it.
44:06
If your skill set is marketing, teach it.
44:09
Whatever your skill set is, I promise they need you.
44:13
You just need to figure out what it is that they need.
44:15
And do you have the skill set to help them?
44:17
Or do you know somebody you could connect them with that will help them?
44:22
What if an LLO is in that box of like,
44:24
my skill set is closing loans?
44:25
That's my value prop.
44:28
Um, well, I speak to it, you know,
44:31
but find still every one of those agents are struggling with something.
44:36
Maybe it's they're not good at writing the property descriptions.
44:39
And you know someone that you could refer them to that could.
44:42
You still got to figure out what their pain point is.
44:45
So you close, you close loans.
44:47
You communicate well, and you make sure everything goes smoothly.
44:50
But they still have a struggle,
44:52
figure out what the struggle is and still be the fixer.
44:55
You don't have to be the one to help them,
44:57
but you could be the one that refers them to somebody who can help
45:00
whatever the pain point is.
45:02
Well, I wasn't the educational platform for you.
45:04
Are you just passionate about teaching or you have a teacher's heart?
45:08
Um, I'm passionate about teaching or sharing information.
45:11
I still don't really see myself as a step-by-step teacher,
45:14
but I do like sharing information.
45:17
I like helping people understand the why behind it all.
45:21
And it was just leverage.
45:25
In one hour, I can reach 10 people.
45:29
Preferably my classroom is 10 between 5 and 10,
45:32
because I can gauge engagement and I can have more intimate conversations.
45:37
I prefer not to have a room full,
45:39
not that I'm scared to be on stage,
45:44
or it's just from that intimate.
45:47
It's easier to manage, yeah.
45:48
Yeah, it's just intimacy thing.
45:50
But it was just leverage, leverage of time.
45:54
Yeah, yeah.
45:55
And then after I did it because of the leverage,
45:58
leverage was the why,
46:00
but once I started doing that,
46:02
I really, I really dug it.
46:05
So.
46:07
And obviously it benefited.
46:08
Let's bring it back full circle.
46:10
Leverage, wide net,
46:12
getting exposed to a lot of agents in a way that serves you
46:15
just to kind of put that cap back on it.
46:17
Don't forget what you talked about was two years ago,
46:20
you weren't doing this, you pivoted,
46:22
and you've, did you grow your business,
46:25
you think, because of that?
46:26
Absolutely.
46:27
And, you know, I coach to this all the time.
46:30
You know, if you, if you want to top grade your business partners,
46:35
start doing education.
46:37
So you have a wider net,
46:38
and you can start filtering people through that wider net.
46:42
Um, but at the same time, the,
46:45
um, I was going somewhere with that.
46:50
Uh, oh, so yes, my business has grown.
46:55
Well, let's back up.
46:56
My business has been consistent on purpose
46:59
because I want it to be scalable.
47:01
And what I have been shifting is,
47:03
I've gone to educating agents instead of chasing agents,
47:07
which frees up my time to do a better job of loving on my database.
47:11
So that was part of the shift for me,
47:13
is educate and attract the,
47:16
the agents that I wanted to do business with.
47:18
So I could top grade.
47:20
And then I can spend more time, um,
47:24
on my database and the repeat referral business,
47:27
which I, I mean,
47:29
I wanted 50% of my business to come from non-realtor referrals.
47:32
And we hit that mark last year,
47:34
55% this year, of course,
47:35
we'll blow that out of the water because of repass.
47:38
But even if you took those repass out of the picture,
47:40
I still want to continue to grow.
47:42
My goal is 60% of my business in year three
47:46
of doing what I'm doing on my,
47:48
with my database to grow that business.
47:50
Um, year three to be at 60%
47:52
and then I'll just continue from there.
47:54
So what that does is attracts agents again
47:58
because now I'm generating referrals out of my own database.
48:01
People that already love us,
48:03
people that already trust us.
48:04
And then now I'm able to give referrals to the agents
48:07
that I like to do business with.
48:11
And I've been able to top grade and attract those agents
48:13
through education.
48:14
So it's kind of a full circle thing
48:16
that was just really strategic.
48:18
Um, so you're two main,
48:19
main buckets of biz are database and realtors.
48:23
You haven't messed around yet with like running Facebook ads
48:26
or trying to go consumer direct or something like that.
48:29
Any consumer direct I do is just because I'm,
48:32
I'm very active on social.
48:33
So they're just attracted to just maybe
48:36
an authentically me on social.
48:40
We're just attracts a ton of people.
48:41
Do you anyways?
48:42
That's awesome.
48:44
Okay, cool.
48:44
Listen, I think we nailed it.
48:47
Okay, we nailed it.
48:48
Yeah.
48:49
I mean, seriously, I'll do it.
48:50
You just send me the link to the recording
48:52
after we're so I can download it.
48:54
So let me close out by just saying, you know,
48:56
just make it official.
48:57
Hey, if anybody wants to reach out to you,
48:59
Michelle, how do they find you?
49:01
Um, Facebook.
49:03
Michelle Castle, I don't think so.
49:05
I don't think so.
49:06
Um, but my website is just Michelle castle.com.
49:09
And it's got all my contact information in my email.
49:12
So that's probably the easiest way to just connect
49:14
Michelle Castle.com.
49:15
Well, I appreciate it.
49:16
I'm glad this just one off the cuff call
49:19
turned into an amazing discussion.
49:20
Thank you.
49:21
Okay, all right.
49:21
Thanks.
49:22
Take care.
49:22
Bye for now.
49:30
Hey guys, what's up real quick?
49:31
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49:34
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49:35
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49:37
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49:42
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49:45
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50:42
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50:47
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