Latest / Don't Quote Me.... / I Just Don't Want To Be Here Anymore
Transcript
- Tori: Alright, before we get started, I want to give you a content warning. Today's episode discussed suicidal ideation, suicide attempts, postpartum mental illness, postpartum psychosis, the death of children, and the Lindsay Hancy Lindsay Clancy criminal case, excuse me. Some of these topics we're going to discuss may be difficult or triggering. If this subject is personally difficult for you, please give yourself permission to pause this episode or just completely completely skip it. And if you are currently experienced thoughts of suicide or you are worried about someone who actually is, you can call or text 988 the United States line for immediate crisis support. This ed this episode is just for educational purposes. This is not therapy, diagnosing, or a substitute for any emergency mental health care. So if you feel like you're in an emergency mental health position or in need, please just contact your nearest providers. Hey everybody, so welcome back to Don't Quote Me. Again, my name is Tori and I am your host for this F this episode, haha, this podcast. And this is where we have real conversations about mental health, motherhood, relationships, life, and sometimes some uncomfortable conversations that we don't necessarily know how to have out in this world, right? And today is one of those conversations because we're going to be talking about suicidal ideation. The reason why I'm wanting to touch on this is because September is the month for suicidal ideation awareness. And I feel like it's important to touch on, especially being a mental health clinician myself. and I'm gonna kind of tie it into the Lindsay Clancy case because that was the topic of my last episode, and it's still like a very well known topic or discussion that's being had right now, right? And I want to tell you from the very beginning that I'm approaching this conversation differently than a traditional crime podcast, true crime podcast, any of those. I'm not them, okay? I'm not here to tell you that I know exactly what was happening inside of Miss Clancy's mind, okay? And I am certainly not here to place to replace anything that the court has or the jury or anything like that. That is not My purpose here for this episode. What I'm here to do is use this case as an opportunity to have a conversation about mental health, suicidal ideation, postpartum mental health, postpartum psychosis, crisis intervention, and what happened when somebody's mental health deteriorates to the point where their perception of reality may become severely impaired. Because I think there are lessons here that extend far beyond one person, right? And honestly, that's the part that I think we need to talk about the most. So there's this three there's this phrase that I want you to think about right now. I don't want to be here anymore. So we probably heard this in several different versions. Maybe you've even said it yourself, maybe you've heard a friend say it, heard a partner say it, heard a parent say it, and maybe you've in you've even said it like during a really difficult moment in the mo like spontaneously, let's say. And sometimes when people hear this phrase, they immediately assume, they're suicidal or or they're gonna harm themselves. But other people go into the completely opposite direction. Some people may think they don't really mean it. They're just overwhelmed right now. They're being dramatic. They just want attention. However the truth is, we shouldn't assume either one. We should simply be asking. Because I don't want to be here anymore can mean different things to different people. It can mean I need a break. I don't want to actually deal with this anymore. I don't want to feel this way anymore. I want everything to actually stop. Or it can be, I don't want to be alive. And those are very different things. But the only way we can know which one someone actually means is by asking, asking them. Figuring out what's actually going on with them. So I'm gonna take this to a clinical perspective right now. So in case you don't know, suicidal ideation is often shortened for SI, right? And it refers to the thoughts about suicide or wanting ta to die. And SI exists on a spectrum. That's really important to take note of because people sometimes hear suicidal ideation immediately imagine somebody standing on the ledge of a specific plan. But that's not always what suicidal ideation can look like. Sometimes we may have what is called passive suicidal ideation. And what that looks like is I wish I didn't wake up this morning. Or I just don't want to be here right now. Or I don't want to be here. I wish something would happen to me. Everyone would be better off without me. I just want to disappear. Mm. I don't wanna have to do this anymore. Heard of those type of examples a lot throughout my Clinical career, should I say? Then there's more of this active suicidal ideation. And that's where somebody may t may be thinking about intentionally ending their lives. They may have a plan, an intent, preparation, access to the means, or a specific timeframe of when they're wanting to do this. And that is a whole different level of risk. However, I wanted to share this because it's still important to know that passive SI still matters. We don't have to wait until somebody actually has a plan before we start taking their suffering seriously. So if somebody's having passive suicidal ideation, it's okay to be like, Mm, well, I wonder like why did you think that or why did you feel that way this morning? Like what was going on in that moment, or like what was happening for you to have that thought? Not assuming that they actually have the plan or intent to follow along, but that something was so exhausting enough or overwhelming enough for them in that moment to say this or have this passive SI. So it's still important to ask people if they're experiencing SI, what's going on, is there anything I can do for you? Is there anything that you need or anything like that? Which kind of stems down to but they say they didn't have a plan, okay? This is something I hear a lot too. And okay, that's important information. But that isn't going to be the end of an assessment. Because as a therapist, if someone tells me I don't want to be here anymore, I don't just say, okay, well, do you have a plan for what you're gonna do? And then no, and just move on. I have more questions I'm wanting to ask and I want to gain a more understanding of what's happening in with them. Are you thinking about actually harming yourself? And if you are, do you have a plan? Do you have an intent to act on that plan? Have you thought about when you would do it? Asking that time frame, like when, what day, what is this looking like? Do you have the access to what you would use to do this? Have you ever had any previous suicidal attempts? Any previous self harming? Have you ever engaged in wow? Yeah. I've never engaged in self-harming. Sorry. So I was gonna repeat myself there. are you experiencing psychosis? Are you hearing or seeing things that other people aren't? Do you feel like you can keep yourself safe at this moment or later on when we're not meeting? What is actually keeping you here? What's keeping you alive? What are you what are you living for? What is it that's happening for you? Who can you contact? Where are some places that you can go? What happens when the thoughts come sh become stronger? That's an assessment. That I would want that I would be doing for somebody who has suicidal ideation. And here's another really important part of this. Asking someone directly about suicide does not cause them to have suicidal thoughts or ideation. You're not planning an idea in someone's head simply because you asked. Sometimes asking the question gives someone permission to finally tell the truth. Because if they have the passive SI, let's say, they can be like, no, no, I don't want to harm myself. I'm just Just overwhelmed, I'm exhausted, I'm having to worry about X, Y, and Z. I don't know what I'm gonna do when this happens or that happens, or I don't know how to handle this situation only. Doesn't it mean I'm gonna harm myself. So never feel like if you go more in debt with somebody who's having these thoughts, it's gonna cause them to be like, Well, you know what? Actually, yeah, I might as well do it, right? No, because these things are something that somebody has been having and they've been If somebody is suicidal, they've been having this plan with or without you. They don't need your help. It's already been there. It's already been eating at them. So never feel like if you go a little farther to understand what's going on, you're planting that seed. And I feel like that is sometimes the reason why people don't ask. Because she's been doing so good. There's no reason to ask her if everything is okay, or she just said Yeah, I wish I didn't wake up this morning, but here she is eating cake and laughing and having good time with her friends. There could have been something that's going on that you could have been like, Well, actually, something simple. My dog died and it was just the most depressing thing ever and something very traumatic that I experienced. And this morning I didn't get to wake up to my dog barking for food or anything and just maybe be like, Why why am I here? What's the purpose? Things like that. Simple and silly example, but Hopefully that connects the dots for you of like how important it is to actually ask somebody when they're saying these things. And then there's that question that follows along, like. What do you do if someone says it? So let's make this more practical, right? Let's say your partner says, I just don't want to be here anymore. What would you say? You don't have to panic and you don't have to dismiss it. You can say, When you say you don't want to be here, do you mean that you don't want to be alive? That's a direct question, right? And then you're gonna actively listen to that person's answer. And if they say yes, you can say or ask these things like, Are you actually thinking about harming yourself right now? Do you have a plan? Intent? And if you believe that person is in immediate danger, never leave that person alone. Seek help. Call 988. Call 911 if it's an immediate emergency. Go to an emergency department. And if you're unsure of what level of help is needed, you can still call 988 and ask for guidance. 988 is the suicidal crisis hotline. However, it is not for people who are only experiencing suicidal thoughts. You can be someone who is worried that another individual is experiencing these symptoms and get guidance that way. That simple. Well, I say it that way. Okay, so now let's kind of dive into Lindsay Clancy. Right? This brings me to her case. So just a brief follow up. I kind of skipped around myself. I know the last episode I did trial days one and two, but like I've just been running through them. And I'm just gonna give those who may not have listened to it or who doesn't know what's actually going on with this case a little short and sweet summary. So this case Has been circling around an enormous discussion about whether maternal mental health, how severe maternal mental health is. I'm sorry. So Clancy, who is a former labor and delivery nurse, was accused of killing her three children in January 2023 and then attempted to commit suicide herself. However, she survived the attempt of suicide and was left paralyzed. The defense did not dispute that she killed her children. The facts are there. We understand she did this, right? The central question, though, that's been going around or circulating is whether she was criminally responsible for those actions, which is also what is going on in the case itself. So that's what they're arguing. The defense argued that she was experiencing postpartum psychosis and that severe mental illness had impaired her ability to understand the nature or wrongfulness of what she was actually doing. However, the prosecution presents a different interpretation of her mental state and argues that she knew exactly what she was doing. And weeks after testimonies and extensive evidence and the jury deliberating for days as of today, September 4th, 2026, the judge declared a mistrial after the jury could not reach a unanimous verdict. So there is no criminal verdict for this trial as of now. And I wanna interf in I wanna interfere emphasize that. A mistrial is not an acquittal though. It does not mean that the court determined that she was not responsible for the murders of her children. It means that this jury could not reach the required ananimous verdict for whether she was actually mentally incapable of doing it or if she was fully aware. And so now the prosecution has decisions to make for what's gonna happen next. Okay. So when I talk about this case. I see a lot of well, not when I talk about it, but like when I skim through social media, listen to other reels, all those things that people are talking about with this case, I see a lot of well, she's crazy, she's evil. Was she psych actually psychotic? Did she know what she was doing? And it doesn't even matter if she knew if she was psychotic or not, or if she was having psychosis, or if she was experiencing postpartum. It doesn't matter because the kids matter only. Fully understand why people have these different opinions, questions, voicings of the scenario. And I think there's a more important question for us as mental health professionals and as a society to ask when it comes to this case: how does, how sick does somebody have to actually become before we recognize that they are within a psychiatrist? psych psychiatric emergency every single day. I can't talk. Wow. And that's the question that I always keep referring back to with this case because postpartum psychosis is not simply, she's really depressed. And it's not, isn't she enjoying motherhood? Or she was just overwhelmed. And it is definitely not the same as baby blues, right? Postpartum psychosis, again, I kind of stated it in the first episode over the Clancy trial, but Again, just in case we're new here, psychos or we simply forgot, postpartum psychosis is a severe psychiatric condition and is a medical emergency. The symptoms of postpartum psychosis can include hallucinations, delusions, severe confusion, paranoia, mania, agitation, and significant changes in behavior or perception of reality. And the danger is that the person may not even recognize what they are experiencing is in is an illness. And that is what part of psychosis that's what makes psychosis so dangerous because you cannot separate what is real and what's not real. Your reality is now a blur, basically. And speaking of that, I wanna also again kind of separate Postpartum depression versus postpartum psychosis, because I feel like there's a lot of blurred lines throughout social media when it comes to this. so yes, postpartum depression can involve persistent sadness, hopelessness, loss of interest, guilt, worth worthlessness, difficult bonding, anxiety, changes with sleep and appetite, and the potential suicidal thoughts. All of those are under D D, which is major depressive disorder as well. And then we have postpartum psychosis, which is different. We're talking out about a break from reality. Someone may hear voices, someone may develop a bizarre or fixed belief. They may become extremely paranoid. They may experience severe confusion. Their behavior may become dramatically different from their actual baseline of normalcy. And this is why postpartum psychosis is considered a psychiatric emergency. If someone has symptoms suggesting postpartum psychosis, this is not a let's just see how she feels tomorrow. This is a okay, we need to hit the emergency room, ASAP, get some immediate professional help and go from there. Okay, the part about suicidality. So one of the things that I think this case forces us to confront is the relationship between suicidality and severe mental illness. Someone can be suicidal without being psychotic. Someone can be depressed without being psychotic. Someone can be overwhelmed without being psychotic. And someone can actually be psychotic and suicidal. Those aren't interchangeable diagnoses. And that is where we have to be careful because if you're listening to this and thinking, wait, so if I'm suicidal, that means I'm psychotic. No, absolutely not. That is not what I'm saying, and that is not what's going on. Suicidal ideation exists across many different mental health conditions and life circumstances. People can experience suicidal thoughts during depression, trauma, grief, suic suit, substance usage, severe anxiety, relationship crises, chronical pain. Chronicle. Chronic pain. Major life changes and many other different situations or scenarios that pop up within life. Sometimes someone is overwhelmed and wants the pain to just stop, shut it up. And sometimes they just want to die. Sometimes they don't know what they actually want. And that is why a mental health suicidal ideation assessment actually matters because we need to see what's actually going on there. So I want to spend some time right here where the I want the pain to stop kind of conversation. Because one of the things that I often say in therapy is sometimes people don't actually want to end their life. They just want the suffering to end. And those are not exactly the same thing. Now that does not mean we will minimize any suicidal ideation or thoughts at all. No. What I'm saying is we understand. what the thought may be communicating. Someone can be saying, I can't keep living like this. And the clinical question becomes: what does like this actually mean? What are they experiencing? What feels unbearable? What needs to change? What support is missing? What protective factors exist? Who can help? And what can we do to create a safe enough space for the person to get through this actual moment? Because suicidal crises can change, the emotional intensity, intensity can change, the circumstances can change. The treatment can change things, connection can change things. Sometimes the person can't see that in that actual moment. And that's why it's important to have other people come in and assess that for them. When I say other people, I'm meaning mental health professionals. So speaking of protective factors, we'll speak about what those look. So we had talk about a lot of risk, right? That happened with suicidal ideation and even mental health overall. We understand all the risks that can occur. But I also want to talk about those perfective protective factors because those are the things that we look for when we are assessing. Like what are those things that are keeping you here, keeping you safe, keeping you around, right? So that can include supportive relationships, children, family, friends. Faith or spirituality, a sense of responsibility, future goals, pets, employment, treatment management, a willingness to seek help, the reason for living, and sometimes the protective factors can be incredibly simple, as in like, I don't want my child to find me, I don't want to hurt my family, or I promised my therapist I'd call. Those all matter. And here's another important part. Protective factors don't mean that somebody isn't at risk. A person can love their children and still experience suicidal thoughts. A person can have a wonderful spouse and still be suicidal. A person can have a successful career and still be suicidal. A person can smile at work, eat cake, have conversations, look jolly on the outside and still internally suffer from being suicidal. Mental illness does not always look like what we expect it to look like. What we when I think typically when people think about suicidal I mean not suicidal, but like mental illness overall, we're seeing somebody who is quote unquote picture perfect view of depression. Slumped around, isolating themselves, s just hiding or something like that. Yes, that is the way that we can go, but there's also having to fake it until you make it. Like I'm just gonna Put the smile on, I'm gonna do those things, but it doesn't mean that you're not experiencing that. I think about also the TikToker, can't think of his name, but he was a dancer and how happy and full of life he was and the love that he had around him and all of those things, and still committed suicide. Usually the person who's smiling the most in the room or who is the funniest in the room is most likely suffering the most. It's not a statistical fact just from life experiences. That is what I've always noticed. So let's talk about the motherhood, right? Because we need to have a very honest conversation about how difficult it can be for mothers to admit I am not okay. There is a such pressure surrounding motherhood. You're supposed to be grateful, you're supposed to be loving every moment of your life, you're supposed to have that immediate bond with your child. You're supposed to recover physically. Within six weeks or twelve weeks, should I say, give or take. Depending. you're supposed to breastfeed or make peace with that you can't breastfeed and you're supposed to be okay and get over it. You're supposed to be able to go back to work. You're supposed to be able to stay home. You're supposed to maintain your relationships with your spouse or with your s with your friends and all this other th things and you're supposed to smile. You're supposed to keep your house together, maintain it, and then all of a sudden everybody wants to act surprised when mothers are afraid to say I'm actually struggling. Because internally they they might be thinking, well what if I get judged? What if I get my children taken away from me? What if everybody assumes that I'm a bad mom? What if my partner thinks I can't handle motherhood and they think less of me? What if I tell my doctor and they don't understand what's actually going on and they may think it's something else or maybe diagnose me inappropriately and give me the wrong medication and it fucks me up even more. What if yeah, I mean what if I ask for help and something happens that I can't actually undo anymore? Those fears become barriers to treatment for mothers. And that's something that needs to be taken seriously as well. So I to go down to one of the most difficult aspects of the Clancy case again, bouncing back, which is the discussing surrounding her mental health treatment before the killings. The trial included testimony and evidence about her mental health decline, treatment, medications, emergency visits, and psychiatric hospitalizations, right? There have been competing interpretations of what those events meant and whether her case her care was appropriate or not. And this is where I want to be very careful when I'm speaking on it because I was not there. I was not one of her children. I am not one of her. I don't have access to her complete medical records. And I'm not gonna sit here and say, This is exactly what happened. This is exactly how it should be, blah, blah, blah, blah. Because mental health treatment is complex. But I do think we can ask a more broader question, right? What happens when someone repeatedly communicates that something is wrong, but the severity of that deterioration isn't actually fully recognized? That's a conversation worth having. And no, I'm not saying this just because of the Lindsay Clancy. Not saying that. But because there are people who are actually watching this case who are currently saying, Something is wrong with me. Like there might be pieces of this case or scenarios that they hear within this case that they're just like, I relate to that, or I can understand that, or I have experienced that, and they're afraid nobody will actually believe them. Okay, so I wanna touch a little bit about Social media. Okay. And this is where I want to challenge everybody, including myself and other mental health professionals. Social media, it take it makes it incredibly easy to diagnose people, right? We watch a what how long? I don't really know how long a TikTok is or whatever, but like a 30 second clip and say, yep, she's bipolar. He's my narcissist. She has both postpartum psychosis. yeah, he's a psychopath. she des definitely has PTSD. However, we don't actually know. And especially in a criminal case, we have to be very, very careful. Adult professionals should not diagnose someone when they've never evaluated them simply because we've watched a testimony, read news reports, or whatever. We have to discuss. Clinical we c well with be with this, I take that back, sorry, with these things, we can discuss clinical concepts. We can discuss what symptoms look like and what they mean, according to our Bible, quote unquote, I love to say, which is the DSM. And we can discuss what postpartum psychosis could look like or what it's looked like or what evidence has been shown to what it looks like or things like that. And we can also like discuss suicidal ideation. We can discuss what the court heard, but we should not pretend to have a therapeutic relationship with somebody we've never actually met. That is not ethical and it's not clinically responsible. And I feel like it's important to share that in general. Like I feel like there's so many clips that go around that show examples of like, this is what a narcissist looks like. This is what An abuser looks like this is what this looks like. Look this is what that yeah, and that most likely is just a portion of it because a narcissist narcissistic tendencies or a narcissist narcissism is a spectrum. just like there's different traumas, everything is like a spectrum. It just all depends. You can have a piece of that, a piece of this, and it does not mean that you fit into one mold. Everybody is unique. Even when it comes to their mental illnesses. So we have to take that into consideration before we just be like, yep, yep. That's it. That's the one. That's it. All because he told her, Screw you, I don't like waffles. Yeah, he's a narcissist. No, we can't do that. That's not that's just not how it works. Especially being a mental health professional in this world. I just it kind of drives me insane because I'm just like, that's just that's just the tip on that. Like just a tip of it all, basically. Okay, and then I kinda wanna go into like clinical responsibility versus legal responsibility. and this is kind of where I there's another like it's it's kind of getting lost and confused, I feel like, in a way, just from like what I've been reading and stuff. So, like, mental illness and criminal responsibility are not the same question. Someone can have a mental illness and still be legally responsible for the behaviors that they did they did. Someone can have a severe psychiatric disorder and the legal system may still determine they are credit. Criminally responsible. And the legal standard for insanity or lack of criminal responsibility is a legal standard, not a DSM diagnose. That is important. A diagnosis does not automatically equal not guilty. Okay? And the lack of diagnosis does not automatically equal guilt or guilty. The court has to apply these legal standards to the evidence and That's exactly why we shouldn't reduce this conversation to she was mentally ill and therefore she couldn't be responsible, or she planned something, therefore she couldn't have been psychotic. Human behavior behavior and psychiatric illnesses are much more complex than that. I think about like When being a therapist, we validate the person's feelings and their experience, but we do not validate the negative behaviors that follow behind it. Because if we validate that, then we're just showing that person the way that you're presenting in the most negative way possible is okay and it's appropriate because you went through this thing. And that's just not how it works. And that's not the way that we operate within therapy. We acknowledge that you experience something. We acknowledge that you feel a certain way. We underst we acknowledge that you perceived it this way. However, you going and blowing up somebody's car, let's say, because they cheated on you, hurt your feelings, and made you feel useless, that is not okay. There's other outlets and other ways that you could have handled that anger and frustration. Okay, let's spiral down to the mistrial, right? The jury could not reach a unanimous verdict. And I know a lot of people are going to have strong feelings about that. Some people will say, Well, how do they, how could they not decide this? Others will say, This proves that she was actually mentally ill. Others could say this proves that she knew exactly what she was doing. But the mistrial proves none of those things. It tells us that this jury did not reach a unanimous Verdict under the legal standard they were required to apply. That is it, that is all. And now the legal process may continue. A mistrial does not erase what actually happened. It does not erase the deaths of those three children. It does not erase the suffering of their father and the families. It does not erase the mental health questions raised by this case, and it does not give us a neat answer. Maybe that's the Part that makes this case so complex and difficult. There is not an actual neat answer for this. Let's move away from the courtroom for a while, right? Because if you're listening to this as a parent, partner, friend, therapist, physician, teacher, sister, brother, coworker, dog, frog, whatever, what you can do. What can you actually do when it comes to somebody who is suffering from suicidal ideation or thoughts? Let's jump back to the top. Believe people when they tell you that they're struggling. You don't have to agree with their interpretation of everything, but you can believe that they're suffering. Second, ask direct questions. Are you thinking about suicide? Do you feel safe? How have you thought about doing it if you do? Do you have access to the things that you're going to use to follow through? You can ask, or you can also do well, not ask, but adding on, like, don't make someone promise you they're fine and then walk away. Cause a promise is not a safety plan. Promise is like a is pacifying you. Like, yeah, girl, sure, yeah, I'll be fine. Okay, great. I'm gonna go ahead and go to the mall. I'll call you later. Yeah, okay, I'll see you later. That's just pacifying the person. That's asking the questions. Or you're allowing them to pacify you, let me say it that way. No. We need to go more in debt. Know your resources. 988, emergency departments, mobile crisis teams, therapists, psychiatrists, primary care providers around you, local mental health authorities, and for postpartum concerns, healthcare providers who understand prenatal mental health. All of those things are important to have underneath your belt, whether you need it or the next person needs it. And then fifth. Pay attention to the changes, especially after childbirth. If someone suddenly isn't sleeping, if they're behaving completely different, if they're becoming paranoid, if they're hearing these voices, if they are extremely confused and having bizarre things to say or coming about, if they are becoming increasingly agitated with every little thing, if they just seem disconnected from reality, don't wait. Get help. Have them seek help, help them get help, help. Postpartum psychosis can worsen rapidly and is considered a psychiatric emergency. Again, move at a fast pace if you feel like this is occurring. Well, here's another scenario we can think about. What if that person says don't tell anybody? And you love them, so you're thinking, okay, I don't want to betray their trust or I don't want to betray you. Totally understandable, right? But if somebody is safety is at risk, their safety comes before your promise. If you don't know how to word this or difficult have difficulty figuring out how to approach this, you could simply say or something in this realm of I love you too much to keep this completely to myself. I'm going to stay with you and we're going to get help together. You don't have to shame them, you don't have to threaten them, you don't have to say if you do this, I'll never forgive you. You remain calm, stay present with them, validate the feelings that they're having, and seek help. So if you are listening to this and you've had suicidal thoughts, I'm talking directly to you right now. You don't have to wait until you're actively planning suicide before you deserve help. You don't have to prove that you're struggling enough. You don't have to make your pain worse before somebody actually takes you serious. You don't have to have the perfect words for this either. You can literally say, I don't know what the fuck or what the hell is going on. I just know that I don't want to be here anymore. That is enough to start an actual conversation. And if someone responds to you with judgment, please don't assume that means that you aren't worth helping. You need to find somebody else, seek different help. Call 988, text 988, tell your doctor, tell a therapist, tell somebody that you genuinely trust and who is on your side. Go somewhere safe and keep telling people until somebody listens. And for people who love someone that has SI or suffers from SI, if you're the other person on the spectrum, the spouse, the parent, the sibling, the friend, the coworker, the therapist yourself, you may be thinking, well, what am I supposed to do? You're not here to fix them. You cannot therapy your loved one out of a crisis. Your job isn't to become their therapist if you are not their therapist. Your job is to help them connect to safety and professional support. Sit with them, listen to them. Again, call help with them. You can remove immediate access to lethal means when appropriate and safe, and it is safe to do so. You can take them to the emergency department near you. You can call their treatment provider. You can help them make a safety plan. You can remind them that the crisis is temporary even when it doesn't feel temporary. And you can stay with them. Hold space for them. And so if you're listening to this and if you've been thinking, I don't want to be here anymore, I want you to hear me say this. You do not need to figure it out in your entire life today, tomorrow. You don't have to solve everything today, tomorrow. You don't have to know exactly what comes next. You just need to get through this moment safely. Again, call somebody, tell somebody, text somebody. Look up your local mental health emergency departments, crisis centers, all of those things. 988 is nationwide. Go to the emergency department if you are in immediate danger. And if you're worried about somebody else, ask those questions. Do not be ashamed. Do not assume I'm sorry. Do not minimize. Do not make them feel ashamed. Don't wait for them to look suicidal, whatever the hell that looks like. Ask. questions, it might be uncomfortable for you and you might be scared too, but that conversation could be incredibly important. And sometimes suicide prevention bel begins with something as simple as I'm here. Tell me what is going on. Again, hopefully this podcast episode was beneficial in any capacity possible for anybody. again, September is suicidal awareness month. Go out there, advocate, s get into the community, see what you can do to help prevent suicide and all of those things. Get involved. thank you for listening to Don't Quote Me. I'm Tori. And as always, take care of yourself. Take care of each other. And until next time, I'll see you then.