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Aging Parents and Pre-Grief · Gay Men Going Deeper

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Foreign.
• 0:05
  Speaker B: Going Deeper, a podcast by the Gay Men's Brotherhood that showcases raw and real conversations about personal development, mental health, and sexuality from an unapologetically gay perspective. I'm your host, Matt Lansadel, and joining me today is Michael DiIorio. Today we're talking about a very light and fluffy topic. You know, the grief of seeing your parents age. It's going to be a heavier one, but it's. It's a very important one. And Michael and I are navigating this right now, and I know a lot of you in our audience are also probably navigating this. So we wanted to bring voice to it because it's an important topic. So we're going to be unpacking four questions today. So what comes up for you when you think about your parents aging? How has your relationship with your parents changed as they've gotten older? And what lessons are you learning from witnessing their aging process? And how do you continue to make meaningful memories with your parents as they age? What we want you to get out of today's episode is just to take a moment to slow down and really reflect on the relationship that you have with your parents, the tenderness within these relationships, and the grief that you can feel or maybe feeling as you watch your parents age and as that transition into the inevitable loss that we will have to endure as our parents perish. If you're new here, please subscribe to the channel on YouTube. And if you're listening on your favorite podcast platform, please subscribe and leave us a review which helps us get into the ears of the people who need us. This podcast and YouTube channel are listener and viewer supported. If you enjoy what we're creating, you can support us by making a donation to the show by using the link in the show notes or tapping the thanks button on YouTube. And you can also support us by subscribing to the early access option on Apple Podcast where you can listen ad free and gain early access to episodes. All your support helps us continue making content for you and supporting our community. So we do thank you for that in advance. All right, like I said, this is. This isn't going to be a light topic and. But we wanted to devote. Yeah. Some time for this topic. Some of you listening may have lost your parents already. And maybe you've gone through this stage. Maybe you grieved it or maybe you didn't. Maybe this episode. Episode will bring grief to the surface that maybe you weren't able to. To feel at the time when it was happening. Some of you listening might Be going through this now might be seeing your parents aging and maybe navigating some of the grief and difficulty that can come with that. And some of you might be listening to this thinking, oh, this doesn't affect me. But I just wanted to point out that this will affect all of us. It's inevitable that our parents are going to age, we're going to age. Aging is a part of life, and there is grief that comes with this. The grief can be even more impactful if you have a strained relationship with your parents and you're not sure how to navigate that, you're not sure how to support them and be close with them. As this transition happens, you might have a very loving and enriching relationship with your parents. And it could make it even harder to see them aging and their lifestyle changing. Mobility, these sorts of things can be become limited. I think it's just important to note that we're all going to experience this differently. Some of us might experience this as with a lot of acceptance and just understanding the circle of life. And some of us might really be really attached and feel the grief in very deep and profound ways. And some of us might feel both. We might oscillate between these cycles of acceptance and, and the grief that that comes with that. And also I wanted to voice too, that our lives will change. Like, as somebody who is, who has parents that are aging, our lives will change. We will have to become caregivers to our parents. We'll have to support them in certain ways. Our relationship will change with them and their relationship will change with us. So, yeah, I wanted to unpack this and just get a. Yeah, give the audience a clear understanding of this and maybe be able to see it through a different light. So why don't we start with the first question? Curious for you, Michael, what comes up for you when you think about your parents aging?
• 4:14
  Speaker C: Yeah, thanks for the intro, Matt. This is surely to be a difficult one as well for context for anyone out there. I have all four of my parents and I say four because my parents got divorced when I was two and my. Both my parents remarried. So I have step parents. So when I say four parents, that's what I'm talking about. My stepparents came into my life when I was about 4 or 5 years old. So they're, they're part of my life. I really don't have many memories of a life without them. Uh, so effectively I have the second set of parents and all four of them range from age 70 to 73. Just for some Context. So to answer your question, what comes up for me when I think of my parents aging, It's a sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach and it's a lot of resistance. A lot of resistance. And so when I sat down to name it, which we like to do, the two that came up were sadness and fear. And then I don't know what the feeling would be here, but an awareness of my own, my own mortality. Like me, Michael. And so let me walk through those three. Okay, so the sadness, I think that is pretty self explanatory as we think about parents aging. It's this realization that they're not the parents that I had as a kid or even five years ago, right. And they're not going to be ever. That time is a one way ticket. And they're not going to get any younger and they're not going to get any more youthful or any more vibrant or any more energetic. Those days are gone. And so that gives me sadness. The second thing that I mentioned was fear. And that I think is, is the real pit, the stinking feeling in the pit of my stomach. And I fear a life without them. Like living, waking up. And I don't have parents in the world. Now, don't get me wrong, my parents live like far from me, not too far. But I don't see them very often. I don't see them every day. They're not people I talk to necessarily every day. So it's not like they're very much present in my life day to day. But still I know that they're alive and I know that they're well and I know that I know where I can find them if I need them. Right. So the fear for me is, yeah, that being alone, it's a sense of aloneness. And that my whole life they've been here part of my life and I cannot imagine a world without them. And when I even allow myself to fathom the concept that there is going to be a day where any one of them isn't here on this earth, let alone all four, I. That fills me with fear. I, I can't even imagine even, you know, what it will it be. Like I said, they're in the, in their early 70s now, but in 10 years when they're in their early 80s or 20, when they're in their 90s, if they should make it that far. Right. And so that is a lot of fear for me. And then finally my own mortality, it's a stark reminder, maybe this is fear too, that you know Our time is limited. Everyone's time, as you said, is limited. Death is part of life. Aging is part of growing. And so I have this urge, typical controlling Michael, to want to, like, pause. Hit the pause button. Everyone stop. Everyone stop aging. And let's just enjoy this beautiful moment where I have all four of my parents. We're relatively healthy. We can do fun things for the most part. Sure, it's not what it used to be, but, you know, it's still good enough. And then, you know, I look at them, and then I realize, oh, wait, they're not the only ones aging. I'm aging. I do this as well as my nieces and nephews who. And my nephew just got his driver's license, and he was driving me in his car, and I'm like, I held you in my arms, like, it felt like two days ago. So, yeah, this. This greater conversation about mortality, our mortality, me aging, and I don't have kids. So that's a big thing too. Like, it makes me feel a little bit afraid of that. Like, wait a minute. When I'm in my 70s right now, like, who's.
• 7:59
  Speaker A: Who's.
• 7:59
  Speaker C: Who's gonna be giving a. About me and what I'm doing in my 70s. And that brings up even more fear. So there's a lot that comes up for me. But I would say, Matt, it's. It's sadness and fear are the two. The two biggest ones.
• 8:11
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 8:12
  Speaker B: I think it's a real concern for a lot of us as gay men.
• 8:15
  Speaker C: Oh, yeah.
• 8:17
  Speaker B: You know, being not having kids, who's going to take care of us? I know a lot of gay men are even contemplating thinking about moving into communes or communities where we can support one another as we age. But I'm curious. Just, you know, we. We have time. You had, you know, three or four days, whatever, to contemplate these questions. Did it make you think about your level of closeness with your parents? Like, do you want to get closer to them?
• 8:42
  Speaker C: I mean, in ways? Yeah. I mean, I. I am fairly close with all four of my parents to varying degrees. I don't think it needs to be closer. I think there are certainly things that I will want to say that maybe I've said, but not very obviously, like, I love you, but kind of like saying like a. No, no, no, but seriously, I love you. Thank you. You know, thank you for all the things that you've done protecting me and all the things. I think. You know, one thing about parenting, I see this with my friends who are parents and my siblings who are Parents is, you know, parents do things for kids that they will never have any idea, ever, any concept that they've done. And I'm like, my parents have probably done things for me that I have made sacrifices, protected me in ways that I. I will never know, ever. And so I just want to probably. That's something that I think I'd want to acknowledge with them, all of them, all again, all four of them, is to say thank you for the things that I don't even know you've done, but I know you've done them.
• 9:38
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
• 9:40
  Speaker B: That's sweet.
• 9:41
  Speaker C: Yeah, I know.
• 9:42
  Speaker B: I can feel the emotion String. I'm like, yeah, this, this topic is really tender for me right now because I'm. I'm moving through and well, I should say I have really moved through a lot of childhood trauma, a lot of stuff. And I've really come to a place of like, acceptance for my parents and who they are, their shortcomings and their. Their strengths. And my. My adaptation as a, you know, a child from. What I experienced was to keep everybody in my family at. At a distance. And I've done this most of my life. And I think. And I would say emotionally. Keeping them at a distance, emotionally. And I think so. There's a. There's a bunch of feelings that come through when I. When I think about this topic. I think I really relate to the sadness that, that you spoke of. And I think the sadness is kind of two pronged. I think I feel sadness for the changes that are happening for them in like their, in their bodies. I see that and I think that for me brings up sadness because I know that we all as human beings have attachment to our bodies and the way they look. And as that changes, it can definitely bring up grief. And I can feel that. Like, that's. I think a challenging thing about being an empath is I feel what. What people are feeling, especially my loved ones. And so there's that. And then the sadness for me is it almost feels like a bit of regret. Like. Yeah, like I haven't really let my parents get close to me in the ways that I would have wanted. And I'm learning now how to kind of make that happen more. But it still feels very vulnerable and very uncomfortable for me to. I think the young parts inside of me just don't feel safe or something. It's. It's interesting. So I think there's sadness around that. Like, I really do. It's not really regret. It's more just, yeah, like sadness that I wish that it maybe things could have been a little bit different, and I don't want to, you know, because I still have time with them. That's the thing. So I want to try. And my best to let them in, I think, is the biggest thing. Yeah. And it, you know, it kind of brings up a story for me. When I was sitting out with my sister, it was just me, my sister and my dad, we went out and kind of hung out at one of my favorite spots along the river in the mountains. And my dad, just out of nowhere, he just was like. He's like, yeah, I want to just apologize to you guys for, like, you know, like, all the things. Like, he never really said anything specific, but he's like, you know, life is so short. And he was like, at any minute, I could drop dead of a heart attack. And he's like, I just want you guys to know that I love you and, you know, that I'm sorry for, you know, the things that I did that were, you know, when I was young and didn't know better and these sorts of things. It was very sweet. So, yeah, I think that, you know, just. And that, for me was like, just. It was sort. And I think this is all just in the last year, like, it's all starting to, like, see. Feel like. Like, really real that, you know, the mortality of. Of us as human beings. And. And then there's a part of me, and I've always been like this, too, that I'm. I. I'm really good at accepting things for as they are. And I think that's what comes up for me when I think about my parents aging as well. Like, I just understand that this is the circle of life. This is.
• 12:56
  Speaker A: This is it.
• 12:57
  Speaker B: Right. And I think that part of my journey is going to be to help them transition. Right, as they're. They're aging. And, like, because I'm actually good at this, I have a strong spiritual foundation to who I am, and I can help them with their. Their transition as they age and then into, you know, into their passing. So, yeah, lots of feels. Lots of little nuances in this topic, for sure.
• 13:23
  Speaker C: And how about for you, Matt, because I know you also don't have children, so does that come up for you as well, that sense of, like, oh, wait a minute. Who's gonna be. Who's gonna be helping you when you're, you know, going through that transition?
• 13:35
  Speaker B: Yeah, I have no idea. I have no idea.
• 13:40
  Speaker A: Yeah, it's.
• 13:43
  Speaker B: I could see myself, like, you know, really having close, you know, friends and having Those sorts of partnerships and, um, depending on my. What ends up happening with my. My love life, my relationship structure, like, who knows, right?
• 13:59
  Speaker C: Like, we don't know, maybe I'll end.
• 14:01
  Speaker B: Up polyamorous and I'll have five partners and it'll. Right. Like, I have no idea what is in store for me. And I'm like, I'm at this point in my life where I'm so open. Like, I'm so open right now. I've done so much work on myself. I've. I've finally gotten to a place of security in my attachment style. And I'm open. I'm open to whatever. Whatever the universe has. Has to bring me. So I'm really excited. And, you know, at the end of the day, I know that I will be cared for. And I also know that, you know, I think a lot of us attached to this notion of family as like, this, you know, our blood family and people that are going to be there for us. But I do think that, you know, at least for me, I want to surround myself with humanity, with people, with people that love me, I love them. So that could look like chosen family. It could look like people that you hire as caregivers to support you. Like, there's so many different ways that we can receive support.
• 14:54
  Speaker A: So.
• 14:54
  Speaker B: But yeah, I wouldn't. I would be lying if I. If I didn't say that I would be scared of not having somebody.
• 15:00
  Speaker C: And that just reminded me of something. For anyone listening out there where, yeah, maybe you're not close with their parents. Maybe they're already gone, but they are. There is someone in your life who is aging. A mentor, an aunt, an uncle, anyone you know, anyone. A friend you know. This same conversation could easily apply to them. Doesn't have to be a biological parent necessarily. Necessarily.
• 15:16
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 15:16
  Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.
• 15:17
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 15:18
  Speaker B: Interesting. All the feels coming through. I want the listener, viewer just to take a moment and reflect. What is this, this question bringing up for you? What comes up for you when you think about your parents aging? Just take a moment, take a breath, and just really tune into what's alive, what's going on in your heart as you have this. This conversation, as you listen to this conversation. And if you want to come and share what's coming up for you, you can join one of our sharing circles or connection circles and gives you an opportunity to come and share your voice and to connect with other people on this. This topic. So the theme will be all about grief. So come and share your grief. And we'd love to. To connect with you in that. You can go to gaymansbrotherhood.com and go to the event section to RSVP. We can also, if you don't have Facebook, we can email you the zoom links for those as well.
• 16:10
  Speaker A: All right.
• 16:11
  Speaker B: How has your relationship with your parents changed as they've gotten older?
• 16:15
  Speaker C: In many ways, but the one I want to talk most about, I really weighs on me is this role reversal that we go through. You know, maybe you want to call it power dynamic, but it's this sense that as a kid, I was living in their world. The world was very much theirs, and they had to teach me and protect me. Now they're very much living in my world, our world, this. This day and age. And they're getting, you know, not left behind, but they're certainly feeling left behind. They're feeling like things are going very fast and they can't keep up with, let's say, the tech and what's going on in the world and everything. And so now they're very much living in my world, our world, and I have to teach them and protect them and look out for them. And so I worry about them. And I, as I imagine they worried about me when I was running off to school. I kind of worry about them like, oh, my gosh, how are they managing this? And are they dealing with this? And, you know, they're fine. They have an aspect for help with anything, but I see it. I notice that I see them struggling with, like, technology. I see them, you know, I hope for sure that they don't fall victim to one of these scams that are like, AI people. You know, there's so much out there, and I just don't know if they have that knowledge out there like you or. I might, right? And they are of sound mind, arguably. Just kidding. Just kidding. Mom and Dad, I love you guys. You guys are of sound mind. But, you know, I do find myself questioning some of their decisions, influencing their decisions. Sometimes I feel like they need to jump in and be like, let me. Let me jump in and help you here with this. But at the same time, I don't want to take away their independence because they know what they're doing, and it's not gotten to that point yet where they've had to ask. And obviously, I'm happy to help and protect and teach and educate and whatever I need to do. But it still feels strange. It still feels weird for me. I'm the youngest in my family. I still see myself, even though I'm 42 years old. I Still see myself as have this identity was like the baby of the family.
• 18:08
  Speaker A: Right.
• 18:08
  Speaker C: And so even then, typically I feel it would be like one of my older siblings to do that. But I'm very good at that. I know a lot of things. I'm good in a crisis. I can handle stuff. I know a lot of things that they maybe struggle with or they're not too familiar with. So it's natural for me to do it, but it still feels a little bit of hesitation. Not because I don't want to, but just because. Discomfort of a new role.
• 18:35
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
• 18:38
  Speaker B: What's this bringing up for you? Just talking about this stuff.
• 18:40
  Speaker C: I'm curious, you know, I'm thinking about funny examples where, like, I taught my dad recently how to do voice notes because he, I, I, he lives in Mexico in the winter. Sounds familiar. He lives in Mexico in the winter. And I'm like, dad, why don't you ever, like, text me and send me pictures and let me know what's going on? Like, I'd love to keep up with you. And he's like, I don't know. I don't use this one. He only knows how to hit the like accept button when there's a call coming in and that's it. So I'm like, here, let me show you, like, let me show you how to use WhatsApp. And he was just so, like, confused about the voice note. And in my mind, this is like the simplest thing. And so it dawned on me, like, he's not gonna get this. He's just not. I just need to accept he's a phone call kind of guy. He's not gonna text me, he's not gonna send me photos, he's not gonna voice know me. And so, you know, in that example, it's funny and yes, a little bit humorous, but at the same time, like I said, it's like, he's not going that way. I need to go his way. Just teaching my dad how to do a voice note to me when he taught me, he taught me so much. So, yeah, again, it's that role reversal. I think the scary part is when that becomes, you know, like, actually in a caretaker mode, like when their health declines. That for me is, is not my natural. I've never had, I don't, I'm not a parent. I've never had to take care of anything besides my plants. And that's pretty easy. So I guess I'm a little bit scared in that sense. Like, what happens when I need to put on that hat and that, that's a role reversal. That's a, a shift that I've never done before. And I don't, I mean, I'm sure I'll rise to the challenge, but again, it'll be, it'll be. It scares me.
• 20:15
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 20:15
  Speaker B: And it is, it's like we don't get a practice round with this stuff.
• 20:19
  Speaker C: Yeah. But I feel like my siblings who have had kids, like they, they, like they've had some practice not with parents, but with children. Like taking care of another human and having the safety and well, being of another human in their hands is something that they, they know how to do. It's different, but it's closer than what I've got, which is taking care of a plant.
• 20:37
  Speaker B: Do you think that will actually go to your, I guess, advantage or disadvantage, depending on how you want to look at it, that they have families and they're, they have people that they have to take care of already. That you're the gay one. You don't have dependent. So you might get into the role of being their, your parents. Caregivers, possibly.
• 20:54
  Speaker C: And that's the thing. We've never, we've never talked about it because I don't think we've had to yet. But you know, it's a. There, it's there in the periphery of conversations that we'll need to have with my siblings and even my parents. But yeah, I think it's, it's, it's possible. I mean, like you said, we don't know what the future brings, right? I don't. I'm not sure.
• 21:15
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 21:17
  Speaker C: How about you? What would be your answer to that question?
• 21:20
  Speaker A: The qu.
• 21:21
  Speaker B: The question two.
• 21:22
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
• 21:23
  Speaker B: How has my relationship with my parents changed as they've gotten older? This conversation is making me realize like, how, how much I've minimized the importance of my parents in my life as a protector. I didn't want to be vulnerable. I think when I was younger, I was quite vulnerable with, with my parents. I was going through schooling for counseling and I was really encouraged to. But it was, I think it was intellectual vulnerability and I hadn't opened my heart yet. And I think my heart is like really open right now. And I think the last few years I've done a lot of work to kind of pull my protector parts and integrate them. And now my heart feels a lot more open. So like, vulnerability now feels really, really intense. And like. So, yeah, I don't know. I guess just even in the last year or so, I feel like part of me has gotten even a Little bit more shelled off because my heart does feel open. I know that might sound like a paradox, but it's like my heart feels open in the sense that I'm feeling my emotions more, more deeply and, and being with some of the things that actually like the meaning of things and that things actually mean things to me and not minimizing. But then it feels too intense for me, so then I want to not be vulnerable with them. So. Yeah. How's my relationship with my parents changed as they've gotten older? You know, I, I would say for me, I've been like, I've been the emotional parent most of my life with them. Even like, you know, they were the parents to me in the physical sense and some even aspects in the mental sense and helping me learn these sorts of things. But I've always felt like I was like the emotional teacher or parent in my family growing up, so I feel like that is discontinued. I share the same sentiment with, with you, as you said, about your parents, like the role reversal stuff and how, you know, supporting them and helping them. And unfortunately there was. My mom did fall victim to a scam recently. Thankfully, she didn't lose a lot of money. But it's like just things like that and it makes me feel like, oh, like they're vulnerable. Like, it makes me feel like how vulnerable they are. Yeah, I guess that just brings up more sadness for me and worry. That's what I connected with in your share. Like, I just felt like worried for them and. But the cool thing about it is as they've aged, my relationship with them is there's less anger in there toward them. Like, I don't really have any anger towards them at all now. Like, and this is all just recent. Like in the, in the last year, I've really, really integrated a lot of pain that I had and I've moved towards forgiveness for them and I think I've just practiced a lot of acceptance for they're for who they are. Like, and just that they're human beings and that they, they, they've made mistakes, they're going to continue to make mistakes, but they also have a lot of really beautiful things about who they are. And I've become more focused on their, on who they are that I, that I appreciate about them. And there's also a lot of humility in that too, because I've also got to see like, how their, their strengths were imparted in me and their shortcomings were imparted in me too. Like, I see the, I see the things that I don. Like about either of my parents in me too. So it's very humbling to be able to be like, okay, I have these qualities as well. And that's why they triggered me prior, because they were things in me that I. That I had to learn to integrate and. And accept about myself. So there's a lot of acceptance there within this. Relate within the relationship with them as well, too.
• 24:51
  Speaker C: I'm curious, Matt. Can I ask a follow up? Yeah, yeah. What. What role or is it different between your mom and your dad, what role you play?
• 25:00
  Speaker B: Yeah, I think with my mom, I feel like this feeling of a protector. Like, you know, like, I feel like I have to protect her and provide for her or something like that. There's this, like, this thing inside me, like that I feel like.
• 25:12
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 25:12
  Speaker B: And it's always been there ever since I was a kid. And then with my dad. My dad, it's almost like. Yeah, like, maybe like a little bit of like a spiritual mentor or something like that. Like, he's. He's. He's very intellectual. But I've always felt like my father is like my brother. It's interesting. So it's like there's something. There's something about that. Like, I. It's interesting.
• 25:38
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
• 25:40
  Speaker B: Interesting question, though. I'll have to think more about that because I. I know there's more there, but it's. Nothing is sitting at the surface. Right. All right, take a moment, take a breath. Just pause and reflect on that question for yourself as the listener. How has your relationship with your parents changed as they've gotten older? Yeah, just trying to find some meaning in that question for yourself. And if you do want to accelerate your personal development journey, you can check out our coaching collection. We have 45 plus premium personal development coaching videos. And we also have our Healing youg Shame and Building Better Relationships course in there. You can head to gameandgoingdeeper.com for more info about that.
• 26:18
  Speaker A: All right.
• 26:18
  Speaker B: What lessons are you learning from witnessing their aging process?
• 26:22
  Speaker C: Yeah, this part's scary for me, too. And the short answer is I'm next. So, yeah, it's like I'm. I am learning lessons from it. Both the things that I like and the things that I maybe don't like. So, you know, exactly as you said, Matt. I see a lot of my parents in me both, you know, the good, the bad, the ugly, the beautiful. And so I sense that their struggles, it will also be mine. Not just with, like, physical ailments, which are hereditary in some cases, but also other ways as well. So one thing for sure that comes to mind immediately is, you know, I don't take my, my health for granted, the health that I have now. And also I try to be very proactive and try to take care of myself as a preventative measure for the things that they're struggling with and suffering with now. So, you know, not that way. And as of now, I will say no. They're relatively still active. They, as I said, they travel. My, My dad and stepmom are snowbirds. My parents, my mom and stepdad travel as well. Then they keep busy. And I like that. That's one thing I do like is they tend to keep busy in their 70s. They've got lots going on. You know what's great about both my sets of parents is they have an active social life. I see a lot of other parents out there who dedicated their entire lives to their family at the expense of having a life outside of that. And so once their families or once their kids grow up and grow out, they turn around and there's nothing else. And so I'm very blessed that my parents aren't like that. And that's something that I want to emulate as well. Not that I'm going to have maybe, who knows, as you said, maybe I will have kids. But yeah, I think that it's really nice to see them have active social lives and they value their friendships, and I love that, just as I do now. Like their chosen family you can call. And so that is something that's really nice. And it's actually really nice to see them age with their friends. And I hope that I get to have that same experience, like me and my besties getting older, just like we're the golden girls living in Miami kind of thing. That's what I would love. So that part, you know, I'm. I'm learning that to, to maintain friendships, don't throw away friendships. Friendships are not just for kids or, or young people. Friendships are certainly needed as you get older. And so many of my clients, older clients will say that same thing. Like, I, I didn't. I was a career guy, or I put my life and my kids or my, my husband or my wife or my career, and now they're left with, okay, wait, I have no one to do stuff with.
• 28:42
  Speaker A: Right? Yeah.
• 28:43
  Speaker C: So that's really important sense of community and friendship. And then last thing I'd say is that they, they have a lot of wisdom to, to offer us kids and the grandkids. And so I love that, like, I I love that I, I still, I still do turn to my. My mom specifically for advice on things that I'm struggling with. And I want to also be that. Like, I love that she's kind of like my coach. She didn't know it, but she is, you know, because she'll, She'll. She'll tell me the truth. But she's also very gentle, as I've talked about before, but firm when needed. And she'll call me out on my shit in a way that a mother does. So what I'm saying here is, you know, I would like to, if I don't have kids of my own, I would like to be that to somebody or to a people, a community. That role of elder. My parents are in the role of elder in our family. They're the matriarch, patriarch, and they do a good job of it. And I think they do have a lot of wisdom. And it makes me think, I really like that role. Like, I want to be an elder who has wisdom and insight to impart on younger folks. But if I don't have a biological family of my own, then my question becomes, well, how do I do it? That doesn't mean I can't. I certainly can. But what does that look like? Is it the queer community? Is it a chosen family? Is it the kids of. Is it my nieces and nephews? Is it kids of my friends?
• 30:02
  Speaker A: Right.
• 30:03
  Speaker C: Um, it doesn't have to be kids, just younger folks in general. And so, you know, that's another. I guess that's another thing that I witness in them that I would like to emulate.
• 30:11
  Speaker B: Do you want kids?
• 30:13
  Speaker C: The older I get, the less and less. Well, not just the older I get, but the older I get, and the more I look around at the state of the world, like I already have enough anxiety of the future as it is, in order to bring in a. Have a child and worry about their future is just a whole other level. So the short answer is I'm not close to it, but certainly as time goes on, it becomes less of a need, less of a desire. But what I imagine, though, is, I mean, like I said, I'm very blessed to have step parents. I think I'd be an amazing stepfather. Like, maybe not my own, but I would certainly be really good in that role even if I didn't have my own biological children. Same thing as an uncle, right? The good thing about being a guncle is that I have six nieces and nephews, and I already get to play a bit of that. That role. Which is really fun. And I. And I love it. I really do.
• 31:05
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 31:05
  Speaker B: Uncle's the best.
• 31:08
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 31:08
  Speaker B: I don't know if I'm going to have kids. We'll see. Like I said, I'm just. I'm in an open place right now. I'm just keeping myself super open, and I'll let the universe show me. I'm tired of creating stories and predetermining things and being in control. I'm like, no, I'm just throwing my hands up, and I'm just saying, okay, show me. Show me what you want from me.
• 31:26
  Speaker C: Love it. That's the best way to do it.
• 31:27
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
• 31:28
  Speaker B: Feels good to be like that, because most of my life, I was not like that. I was a control freak. So, okay. What lessons am I learning from witnessing my parents aging? I think the biggest thing is, like, just being health conscious. But I've always been like that. It's not really a lesson that I'm learning from their aging process. I just think I've always been super health conscious. But I do think there's certain things, like you said, hereditary that I think I have to be mindful of. Mental health runs in my family as well, like depression and anxiety and things like that. So just really, you know, don't drink, don't do drugs. Like, you know, don't eat seed oils. Like, all the things that are really rancid and bad for our bodies. Like, just stay away from that and. And focus on. On my longevity, I think, is. Is a big thing. And then there's the other side of it, which is like, life is short. Life is short, right? And I. It feels like, honestly, not even that many years ago that I was like, 25 and my parents were like, you know, it didn't feel how it feels now. So time goes by really quick, and I think it's just, you know, soak it up, Soak it up. Have fun. Don't spend so much time worrying about death and these sorts of things and just enjoy and embrace where I'm at, you know? And even with aging, too, like, even with aging, like, just don't get hung up on stupid things that we don't need to get hung up on, like aging. Like, just embrace it. Have fun with it. It's inevitable. It's happening, right? Be in the moment, stay in the moment. Like, there's just a lot of. A lot of things that I'm. That I'm seeing right now. And I feel, again, I'm at this real cool place in my life right now. Where everything. I'm seeing the richness and I am feeling enough and I'm seeing enough in my environment. Like, I'm. I was walking last night and I'm like, just me being able to see this rain that's falling on the ground and feel it on my skin, like, that's enough. I don't need all this extraneous crap. I don't need a big giant mansion to be happy. Like, I have the subtleties and the simplicities of life and, you know, so I don't know. There's something really shifting for me right now, and it feels good. And I really, I want to continue to focus on that and I want to impart that in my family. You know, I think it's, it's, it's important.
• 33:47
  Speaker C: Matt, how. What's the age difference with you and your parents?
• 33:50
  Speaker B: Five years. Okay, so they're.
• 33:52
  Speaker A: They're.
• 33:53
  Speaker B: My dad's 64, my mom's 65.
• 33:55
  Speaker A: They're.
• 33:55
  Speaker B: My mom's officially a senior citizen and my dad will be next year.
• 34:00
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 34:01
  Speaker C: So, yeah, from my parents is about 20. About the same. 27. So I was thinking the other day I was. It was actually yesterday I, like, was walking up the stairs, but I was walking up my stairs, like, slowly and, like, aching. I was like, oh, my God, what happened to me? Like, who is this? This reminds me of, like, you know, my parents when I was a kid. And then I did the math and I realized the age I am now in. 42. I was 15 when my parents were 42. And so it just blows my mind because I do not see myself the way that I saw my parents when I was 15. They were like old people.
• 34:34
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 34:34
  Speaker C: But I see myself still as kind of young until I walk up the stairs and everything's aching.
• 34:38
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I get it.
• 34:40
  Speaker B: Okay, our final question. So how do you continue to make meaningful memories with your parents as they age?
• 34:47
  Speaker C: I love this question. Yeah, this is really important. I think it's important that we do that. As I've said in previous episodes, I'm actually quite sentimental and I have a tendency for nostalgia. So looking back is something I, I do look back with rose colored glasses and everything is beautiful when I look back. But I do. I have, like tons of photo albums. I go through my photos, still do, and, you know, smile. But yeah. I think one thing I'd say is that keeping traditions alive is really important for me as much as we can. I know sometimes those traditions have to change to accommodate, you know, aging and elderly parents and Things maybe not the way they used to be, but trying where we can to keep them alive really is important. I come from an Italian family, and, you know, I think this is a generalization, but I think it's Italian culture values. They're elderly quite a bit more than I think we do in North America. And I know a lot of other countries do so as well. Latino, Asian, other European countries. But I think that's important and keeping those alive somehow. So, you know, we have Christmas every Christmas Eve, and the whole family comes together. Never miss it. Even if I'm traveling or gallivanting around the world, I will come back for Christmas because my mother would kill me if I didn't. But not just that, but I. I truly do want to. So those kinds of things and asking them for advice, like I was talking about earlier, I think really helps. Like, some of my favorite memories, maybe when I was a kid, but I still do have very fond memories. Like, I want to keep the. I don't want all my memories of my parents to be when I was a kid. I want some of those best memories to be now because they'll be fresher, perhaps. Right. So making sure that I'm having those deep conversations, which for me is. Is important. You know, my. My dad might not be able to, like, bring me to the beach and throw me in the water like he used to, but we can still sit down and maybe have a game of cards or talk about stuff in the car, whatever. Whatever that means. It's not the same thing. But for me, those meaningful conversations really do are something that I. That I will bring with me, and they really mean a lot to me that I can have that still. Oh, yeah. Asking, like going out and asking them for advice and, you know, telling them what's going on in my life and being the first one to share and just letting them, like, give their opinion, I think. I think that helps them as well because they still feel needed, wanted, important to me, and they are so. And then even asking them, like, tell me about the time or tell me about so and so or tell me about this, and allowing them that space to, like, recount and relive things, I think is really nice.
• 37:11
  Speaker A: Oh, I love that.
• 37:12
  Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And where possible, I did this with my grandmother, and I will probably do this with my parents as well. When my grandmother was in her 90s, she passed away when she was 93. I was very close with her, but, like, when she was in her 90s, I saw the writing on the wall and I would I took out my phone, my iPhone, and I popped it on the table and. And I said, I'm going to have a conversation with you, Nana. We had coffee at her table and we just talked. We just talked. And I asked her to tell me about this and tell me about what it was like growing up in Italy and tell me about what it was like in the war. And I have that video on my phone and like, her voice, oh, my gosh, like, when I hear her voice and the way she said my name, like, I'm so, so, so, so, so glad I did that. And I definitely want to repeat that kind of thing with my parents, especially now, because the technology is so easy at our fingertips. So try to, you know, document it. Not in a creepy way where you don't tell them, but, you know, you can say, hey, I want to document this, or I want to have this on video, or I want to take this video for the future. But that's really important.
• 38:06
  Speaker B: Yeah, that's so powerful, honestly.
• 38:10
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 38:12
  Speaker B: And at the end of the day, like, that's what life is. In my opinion, that is the meaning of life, is to make memories and to have these beautiful experiences that have been imprinted on our heart and they're in each little wrinkle on our face, the smiles that we've got to have, the laughter that we've shared with people. I really do think that that's what, that's why we're here. We're here to have these beautiful experiences and to continue to create these experiences and make memories while our parents are still here. I think that's, that's.
• 38:42
  Speaker C: Do it while you can because you never know.
• 38:45
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
• 38:45
  Speaker B: And I like this. It's. It's going meta, but making memories by reflecting on memories.
• 38:52
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 38:52
  Speaker B: That's what you did with your grandma. It's like, how beautiful.
• 38:55
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 38:55
  Speaker C: And she loved it.
• 38:56
  Speaker A: Right.
• 38:57
  Speaker C: She loves recounting these old stories. And again, it feels like to be interested in her life and like, they feel seen, they feel wanted, they feel needed, and that's so important at that age.
• 39:08
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
• 39:10
  Speaker B: I have a bonus question for you. It's kind of a two part, but. So how do you want to remember your parents and how do you want them to remember you?
• 39:20
  Speaker C: I want to remember them exactly, you know, as they are now. It's interesting, you know, when I think of them as when I was a kid, I really do miss and grieve for the energy and the vibrancy and the playfulness and, you know, the music and the parties and Everything. Like, there's so much more energy and vibrancy there. So I definitely want to remember them in that way and also remember them kind of now in a bit more mellow but still coherent way. And obviously remember all the good things, you know, all the. All the things that I have been blessed to not take from them, but to have inherited, I guess, traits and whatnot, traditions, interests, passions. So I want to remember them in both lights, like, as a kid, Michael and. And them now in their 70s. I want to remember both. And even as they grow into their 80s and 90s, like, I love the. I love the way that this question is worded because it implies that we can always be creating memories. It doesn't just stop when you turn 18.
• 40:19
  Speaker A: Exactly.
• 40:22
  Speaker C: And the second part, the way I want them to remember me, I don't know. I've never thought about it from that angle, to be honest with you. I would hope with a lot of love. My mom tells me how she feels all the time. She's very expressive. My dad will say, I love you. I know that he loves me. You know, he hugs me, but he doesn't go much deeper than that. But I know it's there. It just doesn't go into depth. I would like them to be proud of me. I know that they are. I would like them to. Yeah, I think that's. If I. If there's one thing I just would love. You know, what kid doesn't want to hear the words from their parents. I'm really proud of you. Like, I love the man you've become.
• 40:55
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
• 40:57
  Speaker B: That's so sweet.
• 40:58
  Speaker A: I love that.
• 40:59
  Speaker B: God, I could almost just say same samesies. How do I continue to make meaningful memories with my parents as they age, to be honest? Continue to heal this part of me that wants to keep them at a distance and continue to open my heart to them and continue to practice vulnerability. And I think that's a big, big one for me because then it'll allow me to let them in. The memories I want to create with them are experiential and emotional. I want emotional memories of conversations. And if I'm. If I'm being completely honest, I kind of want them to take initiative.
• 41:34
  Speaker A: Right.
• 41:35
  Speaker B: Like, I'm usually the one that takes initiative in vulnerable conversations. And I have my whole life, and I would love for them to take initiative and sit me down and let's talk about emotions. Let's talk about things from the past that maybe need to be hashed out. I would really want them to take that initiative. I think I feel like I've done my part, so. And I think that would allow me to feel safe, to want to engage with them in those. In those more emotional ways. And then I think it just comes to making more time for them in my life, which I've been trying to do. Yeah, I've definitely been trying to do.
• 42:09
  Speaker C: Yeah, I thought of something else.
• 42:11
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 42:12
  Speaker C: Sorry. Are you done?
• 42:13
  Speaker B: Yeah, I think. I think I'm complete.
• 42:15
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 42:16
  Speaker C: I can't believe I didn't mention this earlier. I have an aunt who passed away recently. She was close to me and we had a celebration of life, which is really nice. Our family usually does funerals, but this was the first time we kind of did a celebration of life, which was great. And it. I was there, you know, it was a nice vibe.
• 42:31
  Speaker A: She.
• 42:31
  Speaker C: She had requested that everybody wear their favorite color instead of wearing black, which was really nice. It was a. Colorful experiences outside. It was beautiful. It really was. And then it got me thinking, like, why don't we celebrate lives when we have them? Why do we need to wait until someone passes away? And the speeches that were. Were said about her and, you know, recounting funny memories and travel stories that her best friends talked, my cousin, her daughter, everyone did. A lot of people had nice things to say. And so then it got me thinking, okay, well, I don't want to wait until they're. My parents aren't here or anyone, not just my parents, but anyone isn't here to recount the story and tell them. That's another thing, right? Like tell. Tell your parents how they influenced you. Specifically, I tell you, Matt, and people on this podcast how my parents influenced me. But do I tell them?
• 43:16
  Speaker A: Right?
• 43:17
  Speaker C: That's really important. The impact they had on me, the thank yous that I never shared and the things that maybe I took for granted. Those are the things that I would really want to say now while I can.
• 43:28
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that. I.
• 43:31
  Speaker B: It was just my grandma's 80. 85th or.
• 43:35
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 43:36
  Speaker B: And I wrote inside her card some of my favorite memories of you. I just wrote them down. And it was very touching for her. Like, she's not a very emotional, but she like messaged me after and she's like, that is so sweet. Thank you so much and I love you so much. And these sort of things. And it's like, I think really people, like, that's. That's gold. That's gold for people to hear how you've touched them, like how people made you feel. I think that's really. Again, why we're here. It's the richness of human connection and being able to. To share that with one another. And then I also want to honor the part of me that feels very vulnerable doing that. Like it feels super vulnerable, you know, sharing some of these things. Because there's not only emotion built around it, there's like protector parts of not wanting to be too vulnerable, not wanting to.
• 44:20
  Speaker A: Right.
• 44:20
  Speaker B: There's all these, these layers. But I am definitely more of a heart centered creature and I want to practice moving even deeper into my heart and being able to share love, because I think that's what it is. We're sharing love when we're doing that, and then when love is shared, it creates more love. And I think this planet needs more love shared.
• 44:39
  Speaker A: Amen.
• 44:41
  Speaker C: Amen.
• 44:41
  Speaker B: Is there anything else that you got percolating?
• 44:44
  Speaker C: No, I think I feel complete.
• 44:46
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 44:46
  Speaker C: I want to run off and tell my parents that I love them right now.
• 44:49
  Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.
• 44:50
  Speaker A: Right.
• 44:50
  Speaker B: I know my heart feels a bit tender right now. I just want to honor that.
• 44:53
  Speaker C: That.
• 44:54
  Speaker B: Well, thank you for you, Michael, for sharing and coming on and being vulnerable with me. And for the listener, viewer, thank you for coming on this journey with us. And hopefully your heart felt touched and that it maybe it inspired you to either reflect on your parents if they've passed or to, you know, connect more deeply with your parents. Or maybe it brought you a little inch closer to forgiveness for your parents. Whatever, whatever experience you created for yourself today or that we helped create with you. Honor that. Yeah, spend some time to be with that. And just another reminder that our podcast and YouTube channel are listener and viewer supported. So if you enjoy what we're creating, you can support us by making a donation in the show notes. You can join our early access on Apple. And we do hope to see you at one of our next events. So come and join us. If you're not in the Facebook group, hop over there. We have ton of events happening. We've got sober group events. We got 60 plus events. We've got mixed orientation marriage events. We have our sharing circles, our connection circles. We have people hosting local meetup groups around the world. So yeah, come join us and check us out@gay mensbrotherhood.com for more information. All right, much love, everyone.