Latest / Bomb Life / Narcissists, Red Flags & Real Healing with Brian Comstock |283

Transcript

Narcissists, Red Flags & Real Healing with Brian Comstock |283 · Bomb Life

0:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Whatever trauma bond, high low, whatever you like about this, you ultimately are like, okay, well, yeah, roller coasters are fun, but for me, I couldn't function and I couldn't grow a business.
0:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Like at some point, it's like, yeah, yeah, this is like a lot of fun being like super toxic and like ruining my life, but at some point, it's like this is kind of absurd.
0:19
[SPEAKER_02]: And I need to like move on and stuff like that.
0:22
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's really the hardest thing is.
0:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the Bond Life Podcast where fitness, vines, and real talk collide.
0:43
[SPEAKER_00]: This is it just about workouts.
0:44
[SPEAKER_00]: It's about transforming your body, mind, and life.
0:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Get ready for unfiltered conversations, expert advice, and the motivation you need to level up in every way.
1:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey everyone, welcome to the Bomb Life podcast.
1:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I am Alyssa Volga, you're host.
1:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the show.
1:13
[SPEAKER_00]: If you are a brand new listener, welcome super happy that you found us.
1:18
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you're returning welcome back, you guys know this episode is not going to disappoint.
1:22
[SPEAKER_00]: We're diving into a topic today that we've never talked about on the show so good.
1:27
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, I have a lot to say about about this episode.
1:30
[SPEAKER_00]: But first, I hope everyone is having a fabulous summer.
1:34
[SPEAKER_00]: It's, I don't even wanna say this, it's almost done.
1:36
[SPEAKER_00]: It's almost done, but it's okay.
1:38
[SPEAKER_00]: We're gonna enjoy every last bit of it.
1:41
[SPEAKER_00]: And I want everyone to know that a new season of life and change is just around the corner.
1:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's happening, right?
1:49
[SPEAKER_00]: You guys know, kids go back to school, seasons change, like so much shifts again.
1:53
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't want anyone going, oh, what do I do?
1:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what happened to me over the summer?
2:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm stuck.
2:02
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not happy and then not knowing where to turn.
2:06
[SPEAKER_00]: And I want you guys to know and this can be with mentally, physically, emotionally like your nutrition, all of it.
2:12
[SPEAKER_00]: And I want you guys to know there's always, always help.
2:15
[SPEAKER_00]: So please go back and listen to previous podcast episodes.
2:19
[SPEAKER_00]: That's one great work way to start moving forward.
2:23
[SPEAKER_00]: educate yourself.
2:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Any of the guests that we have on follow them.
2:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Gather information in material.
2:28
[SPEAKER_00]: I talk about that on today's episode of like, what's up one?
2:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Follow.
2:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Knowledge.
2:34
[SPEAKER_00]: That's power.
2:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And then also, if you have been listening to me for a while following me, whatever you guys know what I do.
2:40
[SPEAKER_00]: You know the programs that I have.
2:42
[SPEAKER_00]: We have like a group coaching program.
2:43
[SPEAKER_00]: I do one on one.
2:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you have been on that fence about sending me a DM and just reaching out and asking questions, now is the time to do it.
2:51
[SPEAKER_00]: You guys already know that we are going to blank and like the holidays are going to be here.
2:56
[SPEAKER_00]: It's insane.
2:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't believe the word holiday just came out of my mouth, but you know it's true.
3:00
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we put ourselves off.
3:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And you guys, you get stuck in this vicious cycle of life of just like maybe tomorrow, maybe Monday after this, after that, when is enough enough?
3:10
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, when does that end?
3:11
[SPEAKER_00]: When do you get to live your best life ever?
3:12
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you're on the fence, send me a DM.
3:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it kind of ties in with today's episode, you're going to be very awakened today on the topic that we cover.
3:22
[SPEAKER_00]: I think everyone will be able to relate to this in a little bit in just a different way.
3:26
[SPEAKER_00]: And if it's not your life, it's someone close to you going.
3:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, yeah, I can see what you're talking about in my sister's life or my friends.
3:33
[SPEAKER_00]: And the only way to heal and to move forward is to work on you.
3:38
[SPEAKER_00]: I've said this before.
3:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I've heard it from Mel Robbins.
3:41
[SPEAKER_00]: It is not a Melissa Vogel thing.
3:43
[SPEAKER_00]: No one is coming to save you.
3:45
[SPEAKER_00]: No one.
3:46
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you get stuck in a situation where you are vulnerable and you're not living your best life ever, how do you get out of that?
3:52
[SPEAKER_00]: You work on you.
3:53
[SPEAKER_00]: And no one else is going to do that for you.
3:55
[SPEAKER_00]: And I know you guys hear me say this a lot and I'm always pushing to talk with me or a program or whatever, but it's the true self discovery, the motivation, the self confidence, fueling your body, loving yourself enough to show up for you like all of these things.
4:11
[SPEAKER_00]: That is what I want for you guys.
4:13
[SPEAKER_00]: and you can't do that if you don't know yourself and you can't do that if you're not the best version of yourself and then you just fall into victim and I don't want anyone falling into victim so go to the show notes book a call with me maybe you just need to get a program to start we'll figure it out together you don't have to do this alone now today's
4:31
[SPEAKER_00]: topic is all on narcissism.
4:34
[SPEAKER_00]: It's insane.
4:35
[SPEAKER_00]: We're Brian Comstock on and he is a trauma-informed coach, a speaker, a creator, and he is the voice behind one of social media's most renowned platforms for survivors of narcissistic abuse and toxic relationships.
4:47
[SPEAKER_00]: With a following built-on, clarity, compassion, real-world tools, Brian helps people navigate the emotional aftermath of manipulation, gaslighting, and heartbreak, and ultimately reclaim their power.
5:00
[SPEAKER_00]: And through his private coaching practice, Brian works with high-cheating women and men who feel stuck in the cycles of self-doubt.
5:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Emotional overwhelm on healthy relationship dynamics.
5:09
[SPEAKER_00]: His approach blends mindset work, nervous system regulation, emotional mastery, and identity level transformation, which is all grounded in both lived experience and professional training.
5:21
[SPEAKER_00]: This conversation today will open your eyes because we're talking about what it truly is, what it looks like, what are the role coasters that you get stuck on in a relationship like this.
5:30
[SPEAKER_00]: We cover trauma bonding, gaslighting, breadcrumming, all of it, and
5:33
[SPEAKER_00]: You guys, I had no idea the stuff like truly existed.
5:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, I'd be like, oh my god, you such a narcissist, but like, what it really looks like and how it impacts us?
5:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Holy crap.
5:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Holy crap.
5:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Brian is just phenomenal.
5:45
[SPEAKER_00]: And I say this in the end of the episode, like one of the best things that you can do for yourself is to educate yourself and go follow him, watch videos on YouTube, listen to the podcast, all of the things because that's going to help you stay informed.
5:56
[SPEAKER_00]: And when you're informed, you have power.
5:58
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, everyone.
6:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Enjoy the show.
6:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, everyone.
6:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the bomb life podcast today.
6:12
[SPEAKER_00]: We have Brian Comstock on the show.
6:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome, Brian.
6:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for having me.
6:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been looking forward to this episode for a long time.
6:19
[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to get into it.
6:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, we are you guys today.
6:23
[SPEAKER_00]: We're talking all about narcissists and one of the reasons that I wanted to have Brian on.
6:28
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to do it.
6:29
[SPEAKER_02]: We want to delight in the mood.
6:30
[SPEAKER_02]: So we'll just throw in a whole chapter on narcissists.
6:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
6:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
6:35
[SPEAKER_00]: I found you on Instagram.
6:37
[SPEAKER_00]: I sort of got it was TikTok, but I think you're right.
6:38
[SPEAKER_00]: It probably was Instagram.
6:40
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was during a time of my life where I was like learning so much about this.
6:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was telling Brian before we hit record that, you know, I think there's a lot of people that we throw the term out a lot.
6:50
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, oh, he's such an narcissist or she's such an narcissist and it's like, okay, yeah, but
6:56
[SPEAKER_00]: truly knowing what it is and identifying it, especially like being in the dating world, like that's really important.
7:03
[SPEAKER_00]: And I had no idea that this was a thing, Brian.
7:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I had no idea that like there were patterns and behaviors to a narcissist that you can identify, but also I didn't realize how much it can impact your brain.
7:19
[SPEAKER_00]: The trauma caused from a true narcissist holy shit.
7:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's not a joke.
7:24
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what you say every time.
7:26
[SPEAKER_02]: This is not a joke.
7:28
[SPEAKER_02]: This is not.
7:28
[SPEAKER_02]: No.
7:29
[SPEAKER_02]: I equated to.
7:31
[SPEAKER_02]: addiction level rehab level like this is a serious serious thing that all and you alluded to this at that outside of there's a spectacular there's a difference like there's your garden right oh this person's like if someone selfish one time always such a narcissist like that actually is a disservice to the people who really have to deal with that's true
7:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but yes, it does affect your brain.
7:57
[SPEAKER_02]: You can we can go in a million different directions.
8:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you're essentially getting and another one that gets tossed as like trauma bond, right?
8:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Cause you're getting in highs and lows and so when the highs come up and in the high can be as
8:11
[SPEAKER_02]: sort of not high, but in your brain extremely high as as a breadcrum of validation or a breadcrum of apology or a breadcrum of some, you know, kind of like, oh, they're they're coming back and they're they're turning a corner like even a micro inch of that.
8:27
[SPEAKER_02]: can feel in your brain like a euphoric high and then once that happens it comes you know comes crashing down not like it just crashes down naturally no they make it crash down you're gonna get in another fight they're gonna go back to gaslighting there it's not just like oh it naturally just falls down due to gravity no no no I mean I mean it crashes down based on their behavior based on so that's when that most people can
8:54
[SPEAKER_02]: sort of relate to identify as this sort of trump quote unquote trauma bond of I actually have a whole pet thing to say on the trauma bond but just to illustrate it this roller coaster that tier point is very that is a true neurochemical there's like a real brain activity yeah there's a real thing going on yeah it's not just like me
9:15
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you don't even realize that you're like you're accepting and just okay with bare minimum, like like like said that breadcrum.
9:23
[SPEAKER_00]: You've already said two turns that I wanted to cover was like trauma bond and breadcrum and then the other one was gaslighting didn't know any of those like I had no clue any of those were.
9:35
[SPEAKER_02]: This is where I was hoping to plug that year from the Midwest, and because you're a good person, you're a kind person, you're an authentic, good-natured, salt to the earth person from the Midwest.
9:47
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I don't know.
9:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
9:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, yeah, it happens.
9:51
[SPEAKER_02]: My clients are the most successful, people are more successful than me.
9:53
[SPEAKER_02]: My, like, I have the smartest, greatest, truly greatest human in my book.
9:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, it happens to everyone.
10:00
[SPEAKER_02]: You're not dumb.
10:01
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
10:01
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's a whole other thing.
10:03
[SPEAKER_02]: We could do a whole episode on that.
10:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, you're
10:05
[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't mean you're dumb, right?
10:06
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's part of the thing is you take yourself as like, oh, I'm emotionally intelligent.
10:11
[SPEAKER_02]: I would, you know, I would, I would know better and, you know, and it still happens.
10:15
[SPEAKER_02]: So then you have to rate your identity and beliefs.
10:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
10:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I can relate to that, too, with like the coaching that I do, the one-on-one coaching that I do, because I work with like highly successful people, high-adjuving people in this one area of their life and then the other area of their life, they're like,
10:31
[SPEAKER_00]: hiding behind the zoom camera.
10:32
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're like, oh, I'm great from here, but that weighs down.
10:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, don't look and they've let themselves go.
10:37
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, that doesn't mean you're not successful.
10:39
[SPEAKER_00]: That doesn't mean that you're not smart.
10:40
[SPEAKER_00]: That doesn't mean that you're a loser and you're not winning.
10:43
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, you're really good at this.
10:45
[SPEAKER_00]: But like, how would you know how to do nutrition?
10:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you an nutritionist?
10:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you a coach?
10:49
[SPEAKER_00]: That just because you're really good at this part of your job.
10:52
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't mean you know how to wait lift.
10:54
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's a whole mindset that goes into working out and fitness too, that isn't part of what you do.
11:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's actually interesting.
11:01
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, it is people have specialized knowledge to your point.
11:04
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you get a PhD in anything that doesn't mean it's a transferable skill to know how to cope and deal with narcissism, but I would actually one up that and say not only do not have, yes, you can be amazing and proficient and skilled and specialized in whatever you do.
11:20
[SPEAKER_02]: not only is it not a transferable skill, but I actually think it can work against you.
11:26
[SPEAKER_02]: This is what happened to me is if you're someone, if you're if we're in the bomb life podcast community and we are attacking life and we are I can do anything mindset you know all these positive things that will help you in every area of your life.
11:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, if you think you can
11:41
[SPEAKER_02]: sort of out mindset and out, like, take self accountability and ownership to fix them and to fix the relationship, fix the situation.
11:49
[SPEAKER_02]: That'll actually work against you.
11:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh my God.
11:51
[SPEAKER_02]: It's so bright.
11:53
[SPEAKER_02]: But it works.
11:53
[SPEAKER_02]: But your whole life has been conditioned that this pattern of behavior is why you're fit and successful and you've achieved goals and you've put anything you stick your mind to like that.
12:04
[SPEAKER_02]: dog with a bone positively stubborn mindset will allow you to be successful in every area.
12:11
[SPEAKER_02]: This is what I've gone the record.
12:13
[SPEAKER_02]: This is my current.
12:14
[SPEAKER_02]: It'll help you in every area of life with one exception and that exception is trying to make a relationship work with the wrong person.
12:20
[SPEAKER_02]: So all those skills in momentum to become the PhD of your life of your profession and you take that vigor
12:29
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's just like not, it just doesn't work.
12:31
[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't work with the wrong person.
12:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And in a healthy relationship, it'll maybe you can work things through it with the person.
12:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
12:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
12:39
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
12:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
12:39
[SPEAKER_00]: What exactly is narcissism?
12:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, do you, can that be summarized?
12:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, can you define it?
12:46
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a few ways to, I always get like define and say, well, of course, you could like come up with the list of things you can Google whatever.
12:53
[SPEAKER_02]: So I try to provide, I try to provide a few different kind of vantage points that you might not necessarily just be able to Google or chat to give it to me.
13:02
[SPEAKER_02]: They have four classic stages.
13:04
[SPEAKER_02]: You're rolling up this roller coaster and going up the roller coaster is the love bomb, the excitement.
13:09
[SPEAKER_02]: That's where they're doing everything they can to sort of rope you in and they're doing that intentionally.
13:15
[SPEAKER_02]: And then they're going to start to devalue you, meaning chip weight yourself for it, gaslight you.
13:21
[SPEAKER_02]: So all the effort that went into hooking you and making you feel like, oh my god, I connected this, there's give me so much to it.
13:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
13:31
[SPEAKER_02]: like all this positive stuff that they're doing then starts to devalue then eventually they'll discard you meaning like toss you out and then funny enough they throw you away and then they hover back they try to suck you back and so this is the four stage and I'm fine I'm flying through it as this is so if you're we could redo it at a slower pace but essentially but the concept is it's a moving target
13:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Like if you're never going to feel stable, you're never going to feel like one sec, you're one second, you're feeling super high and amazing in the next second.
14:03
[SPEAKER_02]: You're feeling criticism in the next second.
14:06
[SPEAKER_02]: You're like broke up and then the next second, he's like begging you back.
14:09
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like it's like not a it's volatile.
14:13
[SPEAKER_02]: It's very volatile.
14:14
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's one way to sort of
14:18
[SPEAKER_02]: not, you know, quiet.
14:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like, yeah.
14:21
[SPEAKER_02]: To give you an idea, here's my actual personal favorite.
14:24
[SPEAKER_02]: I actually just did a YouTube video on that, but I was just saying, I'll just say it again here, like, we'll save you three minutes and say it in like, thirty seconds.
14:32
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think the best way, the best parameter to know for you and your makeup in your sensitivity, because some people are more sensitive, less sensitive, like for your personal makeup.
14:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
14:44
[SPEAKER_02]: As time goes on with somebody, you have to register what happens, right?
14:48
[SPEAKER_02]: If you came in, if Melissa came in as a bomb life super confident person and she's rocking and rolling and everybody, she can move and groove with people and then it's like, wait a minute, I feel like I'm losing a step of like as time goes on, you feel like you're losing yourself, losing your confidence, losing your vibrancy of life, zest for life.
15:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Literally everything that you want, it's super intense and negative and not funny, but it's so intense that I have to bring some sort of light hardness to it.
15:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Literally everything that you want, confidence, you know, zest for life, sense of self, like all these emotional assets and emotional qualities.
15:26
[SPEAKER_02]: If as over time goes on with this person, you start to lose.
15:30
[SPEAKER_02]: You start to get, you start to strip away those things.
15:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Like as time goes on, confidence up or down, down.
15:34
[SPEAKER_02]: As time goes on, sense itself up or down, down.
15:37
[SPEAKER_02]: As time goes on, you know, are you losing friends or are your relationships starting to crumble, but like that to me is the ultimate barometer because now you don't have to pinpoint you don't have to make it perfect, you know, historical sense of was it because they slammed the door was it because they did this was it because they insulted me that one time, right, you don't have to make perfect sense.
15:59
[SPEAKER_02]: of their behavior because a lot of it might even be on a unconscious level.
16:02
[SPEAKER_02]: So you might not even be able to consciously recollect every transgression and misbehavior they've done, but the good news is your body and your subconscious and your just general essence, you know, the body keeps the score kind of thing.
16:15
[SPEAKER_02]: So you will you will track that.
16:17
[SPEAKER_02]: And so then you can say,
16:19
[SPEAKER_02]: regardless of what they did or exactly or whatever like the bottom line is that you feel like a shell of a human if that's the bottom line there's a good chance you are dealing with someone who is and at that point I don't even use the word and I mean that's a great
16:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
16:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I just extrapolated to say, it doesn't matter what you want to call this person, because believe it or not, there's other full flavors of there's other places of person.
16:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, that we probably don't want to even get into, but it's like, you don't need to know that what you need to know is the bottom line is this person.
16:51
[SPEAKER_02]: is making you a shelf human like that is the ultimate litmus test for this narcissist it for you because right that's the effect what is the it like we're not just like talking about labels it's like what is the effect that it's happening to you right that is such a good point thank you for summarizing that for us and we don't watch the YouTube video now go and watch the YouTube video
17:12
[SPEAKER_00]: But like what a great point is that like that doesn't even matter if this is how you feel and this is what you see happening.
17:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Hello red flag.
17:21
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't believe how much.
17:23
[SPEAKER_00]: What you're saying right now makes sense to me and I like feel everything that you're saying like I'm like, yeah, yeah, how did you know that and Brian, I don't know each other other than meeting just now and I feel like.
17:36
[SPEAKER_00]: you know parts of my life.
17:38
[SPEAKER_00]: That I didn't share with you and I'm like, how did you know that?
17:41
[SPEAKER_00]: What creates a person to be like this?
17:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you know, like, can we see what creates a person to go through those four stages?
17:49
[SPEAKER_00]: And so wow, like, because I look at myself and I'm like, I would never do that.
17:53
[SPEAKER_00]: I would be like, how can I make your life better?
17:55
[SPEAKER_00]: How can I be a great partner?
17:56
[SPEAKER_00]: How can I be a submissive female?
17:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, tell me, you know, like,
18:00
[SPEAKER_00]: That, well, I mean, you're describing, would never cross my mind to mobbob someone and then breadcrumble?
18:07
[SPEAKER_00]: How do we get humans like this, you know?
18:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, I like most things with this stuff.
18:12
[SPEAKER_02]: There is a nature and nurture component, but it is, it tends to come, you know, there's a, there's their own version of like a trauma, maybe an emotional neglect or a, like a true physical, like they have, you know, anyone, like they have their own, they have their own traumas, a hundred percent.
18:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and that's actually one that's another trap is if you're an empathetic person, I've been through this myself, I see it with one hundred percent of my clients, one hundred percent of the people I talk to.
18:40
[SPEAKER_02]: All these good qualities about you, like everything you just said, you're like, well, shoot, I feel bad that someone went through this like horrifying childhood, like, let me try to
18:52
[SPEAKER_02]: control them and make them feel better and like I don't you know like no no child deserves and that is true even if you are and are so like no child deserves trauma so now we have two forces we have they can use that against you like play the victim like look how you know this is what my mom did is why dad did to me like I heard this stuff like it's crazy
19:10
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you are someone who's empathetic like, oh my gosh, that's not right.
19:14
[SPEAKER_02]: So we're just a question.
19:16
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, so it's a potent combination answer your question.
19:19
[SPEAKER_02]: I do think it's mostly nurture by my estimate in terms of like they have their own kind of trauma informed child.
19:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and you know, so they're I think that's a strong.
19:31
[SPEAKER_02]: strong pole, but then man does it just create a special cocktail later than that, you know, because I felt super bad for, I was like, man, right, and it's like now you're trying to be there.
19:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Fixed, you feel like it just gets really tricky and really, and like if they're really sophisticated, they're they're going to use your natural momentum, like you're naturally going to pour in and be like, oh my gosh, like that's so I feel so bad.
19:54
[SPEAKER_02]: And if they're really sort of delicious, it's like they're going to
19:58
[SPEAKER_02]: eight in a bet they're gonna like amplify the momentum you already have to swoop in and try to like oh my god I feel bad I want to you know it's a like empathetic people it's a gift to be empathetic right but you gotta you gotta know if someone's
20:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, you used a word intentionally when you were talking earlier when you were going through the four stages and you said like, this is intentional like they're intentionally doing this.
20:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that true?
20:26
[SPEAKER_00]: You really think that like they know and they are intentionally.
20:30
[SPEAKER_00]: love bombing you in that stage in like building you up like to know later that it's a fair question.
20:38
[SPEAKER_02]: First of all, it's hard to really ever fully get inside the mind of yeah well people and that's actually one of the things that got me so deep into this world because I was trying to make
20:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Like is it intentional?
20:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Is it not intentional?
20:52
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I do think I do think there's it's unsatisfying answer, but I think I can defend it.
20:56
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's both.
20:57
[SPEAKER_02]: And here's what I mean, I do think they have subconscious patterns.
21:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Like even if they wanted to not do it, I think they can help themselves.
21:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Like we all have subconscious patterns of behavior that it's like even if they recognize, oh my god, I'm like destroying this person and this is causing this is actually causing me a lot of stress because then they come back and right.
21:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Like it doesn't make rational sense of like there is sort of a natural kind of unconscious subconscious.
21:22
[SPEAKER_02]: So in that sense, it's not intentional, but it is intentional because they do understand that that they're hurting you.
21:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Like they do understand on some level.
21:31
[SPEAKER_02]: They might not empathetically give a shit.
21:33
[SPEAKER_02]: They might not care about your feelings as much as you would think.
21:37
[SPEAKER_02]: But like they do understand what's happening on some level.
21:41
[SPEAKER_02]: So I do think it's a bit of both.
21:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Which ultimately is bad news because even if they promise and they're very good at convincing you that it's going to be different and the this apology is like real and let's say and they might even believe it on some of the like that they're not going to be able to cash that check.
21:58
[SPEAKER_02]: So.
21:59
[SPEAKER_00]: This is so, this is all just like so interesting and I again, I wanted us to talk about this and have you on because this is real.
22:08
[SPEAKER_00]: This is so real.
22:09
[SPEAKER_00]: We are going to have so many people behind listening to this going like, oh my god, I think this is they're kind of describing what's happening in my current relationship, someone that I'm dating or they
22:18
[SPEAKER_00]: probably will identify like, holy shit, this is my dad.
22:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Like this is the way my dad has treated me my whole life and I don't want anyone listening to this going back and like just passing out the label and doing that, but I think having this conversation around it so you can identify it so you can stop the patterns, right?
22:35
[SPEAKER_00]: So you can see that like holy crap, I am an empathetic person and that and
22:39
[SPEAKER_00]: They're taking advantage of that and I need to protect myself more.
22:42
[SPEAKER_00]: I think awareness and educating yourself and just having the knowledge around this, like that's power.
22:47
[SPEAKER_00]: That is going to help you break the cycle.
22:49
[SPEAKER_00]: That is going to help you escape if you need to.
22:51
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you're clueless and you don't know and you can't identify anything, man, you're just not there.
22:57
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're out there being a durable bamboo, it's going to be a tough, tough awakening.
23:01
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean?
23:02
[SPEAKER_02]: I've got big eyes.
23:06
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're just sitting out there being bamboo, it's going to be tough.
23:10
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I didn't make the world.
23:12
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sorry that that's the phenomenon that we're dealing with.
23:19
[SPEAKER_00]: It's insane.
23:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, trauma bonding.
23:21
[SPEAKER_00]: We've talked about this before and it's so funny.
23:24
[SPEAKER_00]: I was talking to my, I think my one of my kids about this and they were saying it wrong.
23:29
[SPEAKER_00]: They thought this is funny.
23:31
[SPEAKER_00]: You'll get a kick out of this and maybe this is the thing.
23:33
[SPEAKER_00]: They thought trauma bonding meant that these teenage girls were talking about it and they thought trauma bonding meant that two people experienced a trauma and then they bonded together over it.
23:42
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like,
23:43
[SPEAKER_00]: that might be a thing, but that's not really what trauma bond means and you're talking about things.
23:47
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're like, oh, well, what's trauma on me?
23:49
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, I will get a great answer when I talk to Brian.
23:53
[SPEAKER_00]: That's cute though.
23:54
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what they thought.
23:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
23:56
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think it's two sides to often the same coin, which is like, that can't happen.
24:04
[SPEAKER_02]: That can't be like yours.
24:06
[SPEAKER_02]: You're sort of
24:08
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, if your trauma is like your helper and you want, you know, if your fear is like the anxious avoidant kind of thing where like, you're biggest fear is unabandoned and they're, you know, and right, you're an anxious attachment.
24:21
[SPEAKER_02]: So like that, and so you can kind of have like a synergistic
24:25
[SPEAKER_02]: kind of two people feeding off of each other based on their partners, but then with these people what we're talking about, yeah, you're going to come up.
24:32
[SPEAKER_02]: They're going to create a new trauma for you to do it.
24:38
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think the biggest, I think the big, because I always try to approach these answers from like, how can I offer something that you can't just
24:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Google your way through, like, what's the emotional truth?
24:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, what's the deeper emotional truth going on?
24:55
[SPEAKER_02]: And when it comes to trauma and bond, they are clever at sort of re, like, they'll, there's sort of take the power in the sense that you are now trying to feed out of their hand and you're trying to get their validation and you're trying to, you're like, you're looking to them.
25:11
[SPEAKER_02]: I had one of my clenches like, my whole sense of self worth is contingent on what this guy,
25:17
[SPEAKER_02]: whether he likes me or proves me.
25:19
[SPEAKER_02]: And she knows that's not, she knows, let me, she's very smart woman, like she knows that's not a good thing.
25:24
[SPEAKER_02]: But this is what I get really into like the intellectual brain versus the emotional.
25:30
[SPEAKER_02]: So you know intellectually, well, I can't have my whole sense of self and self-worth be reliant on whether this guy hands it to me.
25:38
[SPEAKER_02]: But the emotional truth is she feels like I need this guy to hand me, like improve validate for me to get my sense of, yes.
25:47
[SPEAKER_02]: So in that sense, that's a really powerful trauma bond.
25:50
[SPEAKER_02]: And then of course, there's the ups and downs that I talk about that is very real in the brain circuitry of the euphoric high and then the crash because it all.
26:00
[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't last.
26:01
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like they're not going to be super kind and apologetic and love bombing forever.
26:05
[SPEAKER_02]: They're going to get it's going to river.
26:07
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, all this stuff creates a powerful trauma button.
26:10
[SPEAKER_02]: My third, my other thing I want to say, this is my disclaimer of the trauma bond and why it is a very real thing.
26:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I've experienced myself, like it is a very, this is what I'm hoping to do on a podcast where you have a little bit more of a longer form.
26:22
[SPEAKER_02]: This is harder to convey on a Instagram clip.
26:25
[SPEAKER_02]: It is.
26:25
[SPEAKER_02]: So it is a real thing.
26:27
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to use this longer form.
26:29
[SPEAKER_02]: It is a real thing.
26:30
[SPEAKER_02]: I personally experienced it.
26:31
[SPEAKER_02]: I have clients.
26:32
[SPEAKER_02]: I see it.
26:33
[SPEAKER_02]: But if you constantly sort of defer to that as a, oh, I'm trauma bonded.
26:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it's a trauma, but I feel that you're you're a little bit giving away your power.
26:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I'm not saying it's not a real thing in that you're not trauma bonded.
26:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm just saying if we use that as like insert this is why I can't leave this person.
26:50
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think it's helping you to constantly.
26:53
[SPEAKER_01]: I agree.
26:53
[SPEAKER_02]: really enforced that that narrative just for your own sake as someone who if you're trying to break for you like we want to use language that empowers you and gives you a chance to so you know and instead of saying oh I'm trauma bonded so I went back it's like well you know this has been they've had he's had a lot of strong pulls on me but you know I deserve more like just trying to shift the link
27:16
[SPEAKER_02]: My main thing is not diagnosing narcissism.
27:19
[SPEAKER_02]: My main thing is trying to help people build their lives up, uplift them.
27:23
[SPEAKER_02]: So from that standpoint, I don't want to just sit in a pool of trauma bond.
27:27
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to start to shift it.
27:29
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's my longer form disclaimer.
27:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, yes, it's a real thing.
27:32
[SPEAKER_02]: It's very powerful.
27:33
[SPEAKER_02]: It's going to feel like you're literally addicted.
27:35
[SPEAKER_02]: I felt like I was literally addicted, but we want to rebuild the language and all the things we do that get you to a better place.
27:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I was going to ask, like, you know, can people break free from a trauma bond?
27:46
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's what you essentially do.
27:48
[SPEAKER_00]: You help people heal from it and break free from it.
27:49
[SPEAKER_00]: But it is, it does, it feels like an addiction.
27:52
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm glad that you're saying that because the first steps it sounds like is changing that narrative in your head, changing that just simple verbage.
28:00
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, but what else can people do to break?
28:03
[SPEAKER_00]: these trauma buttons and to heal from someone because man, it's real and with social media and phones and everything, you can just keep feeding that over and over and over again.
28:15
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you give them access, you know, they can be texting you, they can be face time you, they can be calling you, they can be emailing you, you know, you block them, they, you can get a Google number, like it can just keep going.
28:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And then that just, I feel like it just reinstarts a fire that you're trying to put out.
28:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so this is probably the hardest question you're going to ask me to be perfectly honest.
28:34
[SPEAKER_02]: So a couple of things every time you re-engage, you're resetting your healing clock.
28:40
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is where it gets even harder.
28:41
[SPEAKER_02]: I've learned this through my channel, the DMs I get.
28:42
[SPEAKER_02]: I was in a position where no contact, eventually was
28:55
[SPEAKER_02]: possible in the way, but there's people listening that are co-parenting, yes, are it living with them that are so I I don't I don't want to yes Aaron, like yeah, parent like yes the meme is it is very valid like ultimately if you can go no content.
29:13
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to come back to your question, but
29:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, like, yeah, ultimately the goal is no contact on a detox.
29:18
[SPEAKER_02]: It's going to be horrible.
29:19
[SPEAKER_02]: You're going to feel really, really bad.
29:21
[SPEAKER_02]: And then eventually, you know, it'll get better.
29:23
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, there's definitely going to be a period where you're craving them because the sort of an addiction, like component of, you know, how it is.
29:31
[SPEAKER_02]: So, but yeah, ultimately, you want to get to know contact.
29:34
[SPEAKER_02]: It's going to be really hard.
29:35
[SPEAKER_02]: There's plenty of people who can't do no contact.
29:37
[SPEAKER_02]: So we have to figure out what's the best.
29:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
29:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Next level, but so the couple things one is you have you're going to have to like call in some sort of faith tread like it's going to be so into and you're going to hit your level I always say like when is enough enough and you're ultimately going to nobody knows that you don't even know that like you you'll have to come to your own
30:02
[SPEAKER_02]: like moment where like you have to make that firm decision of like this is just I'm just not I'm just not doing this again and that's been the hardest thing is I see people go back and like I know I know the cycle like the tendencies to go back to back back you'll go back and back until until you're like okay this is just until you are one hundred percent convinced that there is no hope
30:27
[SPEAKER_02]: They are not changing.
30:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Things are not going to get better.
30:29
[SPEAKER_02]: The apologies are not real.
30:32
[SPEAKER_02]: The relationship is not going to be good.
30:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Like you want more free or whatever, trauma bonds, high low, whatever you like about this, you ultimately are like, okay, well, yeah, roller coasters are fun, but like I could for me, I couldn't even
30:47
[SPEAKER_02]: grow a I couldn't grow a biz I couldn't function I couldn't grow a business like like at some point it's like yeah yeah this is like a lot of fun being like super toxic and like ruining my life but at some point it's like this is kind of absurd and I need to like move on and stuff like that so that's really the hardest thing is usually
31:06
[SPEAKER_02]: It's an inside job.
31:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, we want to call in as much support as humanly possible.
31:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Like get a therapist, get a therapist, get a coach.
31:14
[SPEAKER_02]: If you have friends and family that you can rely on that like nobody likes them, I think there's a lot of value in the collective intelligence.
31:22
[SPEAKER_02]: If you have good friends and family who are really there to support you and nobody likes them, like that collective intelligence, I like that.
31:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I'm a big fan of the collective intelligence.
31:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Are they the one in relationship?
31:34
[SPEAKER_02]: No.
31:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Does it matter?
31:35
[SPEAKER_02]: They're not the one in the relationship?
31:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Do they understand the relationship the way you do it?
31:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Do they understand all the ins and outs?
31:41
[SPEAKER_02]: No.
31:41
[SPEAKER_02]: But the collective intelligence, if you have good friends and family, the collective intelligence, nobody likes this person, nobody likes it.
31:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, that you might want to be like, okay, what are the chances that every what I love is wrong?
31:55
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, and then the other thing is I want the Colin support.
32:00
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to like triple underlying that of if your house was on fire, right?
32:05
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm trying to if you were in an emergency in your house is on fire.
32:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe that's finally the time that you are the other thing about these empathetic hyperachievers.
32:14
[SPEAKER_02]: They're like it's so hard for them to ask for help.
32:17
[SPEAKER_02]: So if you
32:19
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's like treat it like the one sin of life time moment where you finally get out of your own way and you're willing to ask for help and you're willing to be like, hey, I need I need help like the fire department right now called like and that's what I yeah, so like
32:36
[SPEAKER_02]: If there's ever a moment to come in like pull in, pull out those cards, like pull out those cards that you've been saving, I'd like, oh, maybe, you know, if I'm really in a jam, like calling as much support as you humanly can people you trust coach, they're like, get some of these people are free, like if you have friends with families, that's ostensibly free, coach and therapist, my costume, something but
32:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Whatever you like whatever you can resource in, treat it like treated like a big deal, treat it like an emergency.
33:04
[SPEAKER_02]: If your house is on fire, are you going to be the one putting out the house alone?
33:08
[SPEAKER_02]: No, you're going to get as much, you know, people.
33:10
[SPEAKER_02]: But my, my God's honest truth is that for my experience and a lot of people I'd see,
33:15
[SPEAKER_02]: I just can offer like have some faith have some serenity because you will hit your moment when you're ready to shift and it's really hard to predict when that is exactly.
33:25
[SPEAKER_02]: But when I say trust in surrender, it's like just know that you will get to that place where you will be firmly ready to make a shift.
33:35
[SPEAKER_02]: The collective intelligence told me day one, oh, this is not a good thing, but I wasn't fully ready to hear that until listen to like I had to come to my own conclusion because I'm stubborn and so I come to my own conclusion of like, oh, okay, now I
33:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Now I really, I have like no hope.
33:53
[SPEAKER_02]: There's nothing you can possibly say at that point to change my mind that this is, this is no bueno, right?
34:00
[SPEAKER_02]: You have to get to that.
34:01
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like a embodied deep conviction and we respond to pain.
34:06
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's going to be more, this is the hardest thing.
34:09
[SPEAKER_02]: It is going to be more painful and more painful until you, like it doesn't get better.
34:14
[SPEAKER_02]: It gets more painful until you meet.
34:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
34:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, Bob and my fam.
34:22
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a question for you.
34:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you the kind of person who crushes it at work shows up for your family checks off every to do list?
34:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, when it comes to your fitness, your energy and your confidence, it feels like something's missing.
34:32
[SPEAKER_00]: You might be doing the workouts listening to all the right podcasts.
34:35
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you are listening to this one.
34:37
[SPEAKER_00]: But deep down, you know you're just kind of going through the motions and you're done playing small in this area of life.
34:42
[SPEAKER_00]: That's exactly why I created Fit Mind Coaching.
34:45
[SPEAKER_00]: My private one-on-one program for high-achieving women and men who are ready to level up.
34:49
[SPEAKER_00]: This isn't just another fitness plan.
34:51
[SPEAKER_00]: This is about building the body and the mindset to match the life you're working so damn hard for.
34:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Because success in business means nothing if you're hiding in hoodies, avoiding mirrors, or dragging through your day was your energy.
35:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Or showing up on Zoom meetings, feeling good from the chest up, but praying no one ever sees what's going on below the screen.
35:08
[SPEAKER_00]: We're talking about fat loss, muscle building, and real confidence that bleeds into every area of your life.
35:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Your boardroom, your bedroom, and your parenting.
35:16
[SPEAKER_00]: You want it all?
35:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Good.
35:17
[SPEAKER_00]: You should have it all.
35:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's go.
35:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Click the link in the show notes and book your free policy today.
35:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's build the strongest, most confident version of you inside and out.
35:26
[SPEAKER_00]: You're ready for more, and I'm ready to show you how back to the show.
35:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I totally agree.
35:32
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think with that, the collective intelligence, you meet that on a t-shirt, by the way.
35:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you need to like make that into something for you, but that if you don't want to tell them what's really going on and you don't want to share the information because you're like,
35:47
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, it's like the moment it comes out of your mouth and you're like embarrassed or you're like, holy shit, that does sound terrible.
35:54
[SPEAKER_00]: That's your sign.
35:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Things that I was afraid to tell other people that, you know, know me and that I love them and trust them whatever and I was like, I don't want to say this and I'm like, this has got to be really bad if I'm trying to hide it.
36:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I think we need awareness around that.
36:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and not to plug the coachy therapist stuff, but I've seen that many times where they are so ashamed.
36:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, a shame.
36:16
[SPEAKER_02]: They can't tell their friends and family.
36:19
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's been times where I'm the only person as they're hired.
36:22
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm the only person.
36:24
[SPEAKER_00]: I know, yes.
36:25
[SPEAKER_02]: that like she's like, I've never told, I can't even tell my family this.
36:30
[SPEAKER_02]: And so yes to what you're saying, like, that should be a huge internal red flag of like, oh my gosh, if I can't even tell my family, like, yes, that is a raging red flag for like, okay, this is not good, but at least find one person, whether you hire them or not, that like don't hold all that shame and see, like monsters grow bigger in the dark, you know, so like try to find at least
36:54
[SPEAKER_02]: one person that you're not, you're like, try not to hold all this.
36:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I said, the fire department, you like it's too much to do alone.
37:00
[SPEAKER_02]: It's too much to let it in a long.
37:02
[SPEAKER_00]: It is.
37:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Are there different types of narcissists?
37:08
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know much about this at all.
37:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Like is there?
37:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
37:11
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like I've seen two types of my lifetime.
37:14
[SPEAKER_00]: People that were close to me and then other people in relationships and I'm like, that's very similar, but yeah, very different.
37:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, some of the some of the classic two types of like covert narcissists versus versus regular so covert tends to be less
37:31
[SPEAKER_02]: The regular, they're like the prototypical narcissist, a bit kind of like flamboyant for lack of, like they're seeking attention, their grandiose, their, you know, they eat, they eat up the energy of the room, like it's sort of a big show.
37:45
[SPEAKER_02]: That's kind of your typical version, but a lot of people, I get a lot of DMs and messages comments, what they're like, they think the cover is worse because they basically fly under the radar a bit.
37:57
[SPEAKER_02]: They're not going to be super ostentatious and showy and they're not going to
38:01
[SPEAKER_02]: It's so they kind of like seep in and then subtly play the victim card and the gaslighting.
38:06
[SPEAKER_02]: And then it's kind of like, it's like they kind of fly into the radar and they look way to minute.
38:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Why is this not now of something they've, they're the victim.
38:14
[SPEAKER_02]: They're gaslighting me.
38:16
[SPEAKER_02]: They're chipping away at my so that because they hide it better, essentially.
38:21
[SPEAKER_02]: So because they hide it better, people think that's worse because then they, it's like,
38:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Chinese wire torture.
38:27
[SPEAKER_02]: They get away with it for longer until you're like what?
38:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Interesting.
38:31
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, so they're that's your classic.
38:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
38:34
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, but yeah, there's there's all there's all colors of the rainbow, malignant narcissist.
38:38
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it goes on and on.
38:40
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just, yeah, you know, it's not fun.
38:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
38:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, not at all.
38:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Can we talk about gaslighting a little bit?
38:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I did not know what gaslighting even was or what it meant.
38:53
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I had to like look up the story of gas lamps and like how it all originated and stuff.
38:58
[SPEAKER_00]: But I got accused of gaslighting a lot.
39:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know what that means.
39:03
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, hey, Sarah.
39:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, Sarah, what's gaslighting?
39:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Am I doing this?
39:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Am I an narcissist?
39:09
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I started like, and I'm like, holy shit, I'm questioning my reality.
39:13
[SPEAKER_00]: The gaslighting is working because that's essentially what it is.
39:16
[SPEAKER_00]: We can use to explain this a little bit because I think this happens in relationships, even with people that aren't an narcissist, you know, and I think it's a topic that we need a little bit more education on for sure.
39:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and unfortunately, just like, you know, these things do, these terms do get blown around.
39:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, pretty, you know, I've had some laughable examples where it's like, oh, I showed up late and she's like, why are you gaslighting me up?
39:40
[SPEAKER_02]: That's not actually, that's not really actually what the freak, that's not it.
39:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so people don't like it's.
39:47
[SPEAKER_02]: It is getting thrown around a lot.
39:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
39:49
[SPEAKER_02]: So no, essentially, it's when someone is capable and they do it subtly.
39:54
[SPEAKER_02]: This is why it's like if it was obvious, you'd be like, like, I'm like, you know, listen, your shirt is purple.
40:00
[SPEAKER_02]: You're like, but it's, but it's white.
40:02
[SPEAKER_02]: But if I was able to do that in a way slowly subtly, we're like,
40:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Is it purple?
40:09
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, it's like, so like, you can't just bludgeon someone over the head with it.
40:14
[SPEAKER_02]: You have to be a little bit sophisticated where it's like, I don't know.
40:18
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it has a hue of purple.
40:19
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll get off of that analogy.
40:20
[SPEAKER_02]: But the point is, you are, you're sort of slowly making them question, like, you know, like, everything gets turned around.
40:29
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you're like, wondering, like, well,
40:31
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, like if you come in with one kind of sense of objective reality and somehow all of that has been compromised and you're like questioning it and you're just left with this self questioning yourself and everything.
40:44
[SPEAKER_02]: It's essentially it's getting them to
40:47
[SPEAKER_02]: like having them sort of really write your your truth and like what you're kind of seeing and stuff is like it's not good because now the worst thing about the gas line again deeper emotional truth like so if we go off of the definition like what's the bigger yeah bigger relevance if you can't even trust yourself like the worst symptom of gas lighting is you are no longer trusting yourself like I could have sworn this shirt is purple and now I don't even know
41:12
[SPEAKER_02]: The freaking color of my shirt it's like you're losing.
41:15
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel that you're you're yourself trust and if you don't have self trust if you can't even trust your own brain your own eyeballs your own.
41:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so that's to me again.
41:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Trying to answer these questions is like a deeper level the worst the worst thing about the gas setting is yeah you're sort of questioning and they're getting the short answers are getting you to believe lies that's basically what gaslighting is but the bigger thing about it is you're losing your sense you're losing yourself trust and if you can't even trust yourself like now you are
41:49
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, there's so many bad things that happen with that because you're sitting, now you really are a Bambi because if you can't even believe, if you can't even believe yourself, I can convince you to believe anything because you don't even trust yourself.
41:59
[SPEAKER_02]: So now I can be the arbiter of truth of like, I'll tell you what shirt is purple or white.
42:04
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll tell you like now so you're sort of outsourcing your, you know, yourself.
42:08
[SPEAKER_00]: That's making me sweat.
42:10
[SPEAKER_00]: That's scary.
42:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
42:12
[SPEAKER_00]: That is so scary.
42:13
[SPEAKER_00]: And I have seen, I know what happens to men too, but I've seen that happen to so many women, Brian.
42:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.
42:19
[SPEAKER_02]: And I do want to shout out for the guy because it happens to guys.
42:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely.
42:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.
42:24
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, a lot of females.
42:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
42:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I've witnessed this with a very, I'm just going to say very close person in my life who is a male and the female.
42:32
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, oh, he shit.
42:34
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like watching it happen on fold.
42:36
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, never seen a female do this before.
42:39
[SPEAKER_00]: But I know it's possible.
42:40
[SPEAKER_00]: And it happens.
42:40
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like watching it going, you do see what she's doing right now, right?
42:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
42:46
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's, yeah, so it definitely goes both ways, but
42:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, and just to put a bow on that really rosy picture.
42:53
[SPEAKER_02]: So not only are you, not only is someone just like, okay, I'm an open, I'm a carpal wash, like, no, just tell me what the truth is, like, okay, is it, like, so that's horrible, because now you just have a bad leader writing your truth in your, but I think it's like leading you into battle to death.
43:11
[SPEAKER_02]: But I say it, like, someone who's been there, like, if you don't trust yourself, like,
43:16
[SPEAKER_02]: You're going to feel so unwell.
43:18
[SPEAKER_02]: You're going to feel so uneasy in your own body if you're like, wait a minute, like I could have sworn.
43:22
[SPEAKER_02]: And I went through this, like, not too.
43:25
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, I could have sworn XYZ, but he's he's telling me ABC.
43:30
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just, oh, it's like you're you're confusing yourself.
43:33
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like crazy.
43:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's it's a horrible.
43:36
[SPEAKER_02]: is a horrible thing.
43:38
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, again, it's subtle, meaning you might not detect it immediately.
43:43
[SPEAKER_02]: That's why I always go back to this and other, let me say, like, I would have to have hours with friends and unpacking and like, you said my shirt was purple, but I could have sworn it was white, but like maybe
43:53
[SPEAKER_02]: like I would have to spend all this time retroactively analyzing psycho analyzing like trying to make sense of it and that again in and of itself is a huge litmus test for if you have to spend hours with the friend or someone trying to make sense of absurdity make sense of insanity like that.
44:11
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean?
44:12
[SPEAKER_02]: So, because that's sort of how you know, because you might not, even if you have a really trained eye, you might not detect it like in real time.
44:21
[SPEAKER_02]: But you will, but you will pick it up later and be like, wait a minute, wait a minute, and like that whole stuff, like that's how you know you're in the gaslighting territory.
44:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
44:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
44:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Last one, breadcrumming.
44:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Can we talk about breadcrumming?
44:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Breadcrumming.
44:35
[SPEAKER_00]: I was completely clueless about this.
44:38
[SPEAKER_00]: I still don't fully understand it, but I know I was a victim.
44:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so there's a couple ways that there's like a positive and sort of negative.
44:48
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they're both negative, but in terms of how I'm thinking about it, if you are someone who doesn't ask for much and requires and wants very little, and someone gives you a breadcrum of what?
45:03
[SPEAKER_02]: A breadcrum of affection or breadcrum of
45:06
[SPEAKER_02]: validation like you are going to be a spread sponge with the drop of water who just like absorbs that and is like oh my god that feels so so some version of breadcrumming is getting like micro doses of what you should be getting anyway but like because forever and it sounds weird to say a lot of people get in these things where it's like they're not used to getting
45:28
[SPEAKER_02]: They're always doing for others.
45:30
[SPEAKER_02]: They're always providing their own.
45:31
[SPEAKER_02]: So like they don't ask for anything and they'll get like a breadcrumble positive and it feels like so that's side of the quote unquote positive like a breadcrumble of affection or validation or attention or anything like that.
45:42
[SPEAKER_02]: But it can also be
45:44
[SPEAKER_02]: It could also kind of be a breadcrum of an apology or just enough to keep you moving forward.
45:55
[SPEAKER_02]: The breadcrum is just, you didn't quite get the conversation or the appal.
46:01
[SPEAKER_02]: You didn't really get the full meal deal, but you're getting just enough.
46:07
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm never going to talk to this person again.
46:09
[SPEAKER_02]: And then they bred crumb, like a couple messages, a couple emails, like just minimum viable dose to like keep you, keep you truck and forward.
46:19
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
46:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Like not enough to actually make you feel better and be like, Melissa, oh my god, like I can't believe, like I'm so like not enough to like really make you feel better, but enough to keep you, inch and forward.
46:32
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, that's such a micro doses of whatever it takes.
46:36
[SPEAKER_02]: to keep you stuck.
46:37
[SPEAKER_02]: That's honestly probably the best of definition I have in real time.
46:41
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like micro doses of whatever it takes, apologies of affection and attention, gives whatever micro dose, like the bare minimum, just to keep you it stuck in the loop.
46:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
46:50
[SPEAKER_00]: I've had, I've heard things be said to my kids before and I had to stop and I was like, uh, that's like red crumbling in it.
46:58
[SPEAKER_00]: And it would be in a way of like, I did this.
47:01
[SPEAKER_00]: You should be happy, you know, or like you at least you got this.
47:06
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know what you're complaining about.
47:07
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, just because you provided this doesn't mean that you're a lack of hug and kisses.
47:15
[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't exonerate you for three years.
47:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
47:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
47:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's not a proper atonement, but yeah, and they're not trying to, the purpose, again, deeper, deeper, deeper meaning.
47:27
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just another mechanism to keep you stuck.
47:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
47:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I completely agree.
47:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
47:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Someone's listening to this right now.
47:36
[SPEAKER_00]: They can identify it or maybe like a parent is listening and they can see it happening in their daughter's relationship or it's themselves.
47:45
[SPEAKER_00]: What can they do?
47:46
[SPEAKER_00]: What can be like the first step that they do?
47:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Mine would be like, go follow you on YouTube and Instagram and like pour into your education cup.
47:55
[SPEAKER_00]: like learn more about it here more about it because I love your reals because you hit so many like different angles and stuff and you put things in a way that I was like oh I want to thought of it that way or like I never I don't know you're sitting on the couch just the other day and you were like pointing something I can't remember the topic do you remember what you you're probably like I do a million of those gotta can't remember and you were sitting there and I was like I never thought of it that way do you know what I'm talking about
48:17
[SPEAKER_02]: I have a couple pointers, but yeah.
48:21
[SPEAKER_02]: I do these daily, so it's hard to know exactly what's going on.
48:25
[SPEAKER_02]: The point is, the point is it was super good, right?
48:29
[SPEAKER_00]: That was the point.
48:32
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're listening to watch it, but that's my advice to step one is like find people that can educate you, help you understand things more.
48:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Because, you know, an educated bind is powerful, you know, knowledge is power.
48:46
[SPEAKER_00]: I totally believe in that.
48:47
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's my advice.
48:49
[SPEAKER_00]: What would you suggest to someone listening to this right now going, oh, God, you guys just blew my mind right now.
48:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I actually would agree with you.
48:56
[SPEAKER_02]: That's where I started.
48:57
[SPEAKER_02]: I think, especially if you're a smart person, I don't know who's going to listen this and be like, I don't identify as a smart person.
49:05
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're someone who has a brain, the most people want to understand, you're going to get a, you're going to try to get a sense of comfort in this chaos.
49:15
[SPEAKER_02]: You want to send, you want like a blanket of comfort or like give me something.
49:19
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I think educating yourself is a really good place to start.
49:23
[SPEAKER_02]: So you can at least feel like you are starting to get your arms around the tree, at least intellectually.
49:29
[SPEAKER_02]: So you can kind of get what's going on and then
49:32
[SPEAKER_02]: And then, you know, then it gets a lot deeper, right?
49:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, if you really want to dig into this stuff, like, you got to identify, find someone and work with, I mean, if you really really want to full send this, find someone who can help you, ultimately identify and heal the patterns in you that even like the reality that
49:53
[SPEAKER_02]: This is like, this is like the hardest thing to say is like, ultimately, we create our realities, right?
49:59
[SPEAKER_02]: So on some level, I'm not saying, I'm not like, nobody deserves mistraining all this stuff, but like, on some level, we consciously or unconsciously, we create our realities.
50:10
[SPEAKER_02]: And so if you really
50:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Whether you like hearing this or not, but if you really want to hit the root of this, we need to figure out and sort of heal rectify reprogram in you.
50:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Why did you tolerate this?
50:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Why did you attract it?
50:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, yes.
50:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Am I saying, you're the problem.
50:28
[SPEAKER_02]: They're not.
50:28
[SPEAKER_02]: No, we can't change them.
50:30
[SPEAKER_02]: We can only change.
50:31
[SPEAKER_02]: We can only address you.
50:33
[SPEAKER_02]: You can only address you.
50:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
50:35
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, if the options are take a look at yourself and we're, you know, work on yourself with the right practitioner, the right therapist, the right coach versus sit there and hope that they'll heal and make it and treat you better like
50:47
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, like we have to be smart about this, like if you really want to take an ownership mentality, like we have to deep dive into your makeup of what what tolerated this, what attracted this, why did you endure it?
51:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, these are heart and these are hard these are, you know,
51:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh my God.
51:03
[SPEAKER_02]: These are not easy.
51:05
[SPEAKER_02]: So if you want to go level one education level ten, you know, you really have to do the Sahar's friends.
51:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Like you got to, you got to like, you go hard look at yourself and it, and with the right person, the right, you know, somatic unconscious, like you got to dig deeper.
51:21
[SPEAKER_00]: I agree.
51:21
[SPEAKER_00]: And it is.
51:22
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really hard to ask yourself those questions of like, what's going on inside of me that allowed me to tolerate this, to even let this go happen in my life?
51:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Like why did I create this reality?
51:32
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, and that's really hard to swallow.
51:36
[SPEAKER_00]: And I get that, too, and like the work that I do too, because it's hard to tell people sometimes, but it's like, you created yourself to be this overweight, miserable person.
51:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Why?
51:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Where did this start?
51:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Because then, once we know that foundation, then we can start building and healing and growing and changing physically, mentally, emotionally from that.
51:54
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, no one wants to look in the mirror and be like, well,
51:58
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's like that morning wall and song like I guess I'm the problem, but but that glass if you could even think about that that glass you out of victim mindset.
52:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
52:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Such a good point.
52:10
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like that.
52:13
[SPEAKER_02]: a longer format.
52:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, you're a victim in that you, someone did things that, you know, were not appropriate.
52:19
[SPEAKER_02]: So in that sense, you are a victim.
52:20
[SPEAKER_02]: But I don't, I don't want, frankly, I don't want you adopting the victim.
52:25
[SPEAKER_02]: I said, because it's going to preclude you from doing things to make sure it doesn't happen.
52:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
52:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
52:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Brian, where can people follow you get filled their cup?
52:35
[SPEAKER_00]: All of things.
52:35
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll put everything in the show notes, too, but
52:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, sure.
52:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you know, most of it's on Instagram at Brian with an eye dot comstock COMS to UK, and then if you take my name in Brian Comstock dot com or dot CO my dot com is my blog and website and the dot CO Brian Comstock dot CO is is my, you know, everything relating to this and getting help and getting support and I have a
53:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Truly, ten out of ten, stake my reputation on it, amazing coach and person that's helping me work with people and she's co-parenting with, you know, with, like, she's, in the figure, like, she's been, she's very, you know, on top of the thing.
53:14
[SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, I would just say, fall, you're, when in doubt, trust your intuition, they're gonna try to make sure you don't trust your intuition.
53:21
[SPEAKER_02]: So, just do what, you know, if you're feeling called to work with someone or follow someone or it doesn't have to be me, but try to,
53:30
[SPEAKER_02]: cultivate rebuild that cultivating, you know, your own sense, your own compass.
53:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
53:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, thank you for coming on.
53:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for being a compass for me.
53:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, because you, I got introduced to you at the time of my life when I needed it.
53:42
[SPEAKER_00]: And I, you had an impact.
53:44
[SPEAKER_00]: So what you're doing and the work that you're doing is great.
53:47
[SPEAKER_00]: And it works.
53:48
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're so blessed to have you on the show.
53:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And your podcast, you have the Brian Combshack podcast as well.
53:53
[SPEAKER_00]: So check you out.
53:53
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm assuming you're on iTunes, Spotify, all that stuff.
53:56
[SPEAKER_00]: All the, all the, yes.
53:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Awesome.
53:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Awesome.
53:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, thank you again, Brian.
54:00
[SPEAKER_00]: This is an amazing conversation.
54:02
[SPEAKER_00]: You guys check out the show notes.
54:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Go follow, like, and then reach out if you can relate to any of this and you need help.
54:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I'm a big advocate for coaching and not doing this process alone.
54:12
[SPEAKER_00]: So thanks for being that person, Brian.
54:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you, Melissa.
54:15
[SPEAKER_02]: That was great.
54:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Everyone's day safe.
54:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Stay healthy until next time.
54:22
[SPEAKER_00]: The bottom-life podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only.
54:25
[SPEAKER_00]: The content shared here is not intended as medical, legal, or professional advice.
54:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Always consult with a qualified professional before making any health fitness, financial, or legal decisions.
54:33
[SPEAKER_00]: The opinions shared on this podcast are personal experiences and insight.
54:37
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you need expert guidance, go find the right professional for you.
54:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for listening.