Latest / True Crime with Gavin Fish / The Sick, Disgusting Plot Against Nancy Guthrie’s Family | This is a Cruel Scam | Where's Nancy?

Transcript

The Sick, Disgusting Plot Against Nancy Guthrie’s Family | This is a Cruel Scam | Where's Nancy? · True Crime with Gavin Fish

• 0:01
  OK, I'm going to admit it. I'm going to try not to bump my
• 0:04
  mic first of all, but I'm going to admit this.
• 0:07
  I'm in a bit of a mood today. I'm in a mood and what my baby
• 0:11
  sister would have said I am PIST when she was narking on me to
• 0:19
  our parents. I don't know guys, the the Nancy
• 0:24
  Guthrie situation where we've apparently got 2 new notes just
• 0:31
  I'm disgusted by it. I'm disgusted to be a member of
• 0:35
  the human family. I'm disgusted by apparent
• 0:40
  behavior that is intended only to what's what's what's the word
• 0:48
  that I'm looking for extract, extract money out of the pain of
• 0:54
  others. It kills me.
• 0:56
  It kills me. And So what I did today, well,
• 1:01
  kind of what started it off was I read an article in the New
• 1:04
  York Post that quoted our pal Jen Koffendaffer.
• 1:08
  And oh not Jen didn't, but it did.
• 1:13
  It just made me PIST. It made me so mad.
• 1:18
  And so I started doing research into the into the literature and
• 1:22
  what causes people to behave this way.
• 1:26
  And as I dug deeper and deeper and deeper into it, I just got
• 1:31
  more and more angry. And lucky you, you get to join
• 1:35
  me in my anger. So what we're going to do today,
• 1:41
  we're going to 1st, we're going to read that article from the
• 1:44
  post. We are going to get into some of
• 1:47
  my research. There's another article that I
• 1:49
  want to share with you on the case.
• 1:52
  Of course, we've got three questions tonight.
• 1:53
  We've got some true crime headlines and which includes Amy
• 1:57
  Hilliard, Rex Heuermann, an update on the Celeste Rivas
• 2:01
  Hernandez case. And then I did not forget.
• 2:05
  I just, I did not forget good news.
• 2:08
  We're going to get to some good news today too, because while we
• 2:13
  are righteously indignant on behalf of the Guthrie family, we
• 2:16
  also need to take a breather, get a fresher breath air, a
• 2:21
  fresh hobby. I need to take to a breath of
• 2:24
  fresh air and and find out what's what's beautiful in the
• 2:30
  world. And there's plenty to talk
• 2:31
  about. So I guess if that's interesting
• 2:34
  to you, stick with me. This video contains mature
• 2:50
  themes and discussions intended only for adult audiences.
• 2:53
  Viewer discretion is advised. Hello there, my friend.
• 2:58
  Welcome back to another true crime conversation.
• 3:01
  My name is Gavin. What is yours?
• 3:03
  Tell me. Go ahead, tell me.
• 3:04
  And while you're telling me your name, tell me where you're from.
• 3:08
  I like it when you guys put in the comments where you are
• 3:11
  watching from. In three questions today, we
• 3:14
  have a viewer from New Zealand, a Maori friend that that has
• 3:21
  asked a question of me. And I love knowing where you
• 3:25
  guys are watching from near and far.
• 3:27
  I'm, I'm here in Western Pennsylvania.
• 3:29
  I know that some of you are very close.
• 3:33
  They you live right here in my neck of the woods.
• 3:35
  Some of you are far, far away. And, and I love finding out
• 3:40
  where you're from. OK, what are we talking about
• 3:43
  tonight? Tonight we are talking about the
• 3:45
  case of Nancy Guthrie. Quick recap.
• 3:48
  Nancy Guthrie, 84 years old, goes to dinner with family on
• 3:53
  January 31st, gets dropped off back at her house.
• 3:57
  She has a bad back. She has a bad ticker.
• 3:59
  She has a pacemaker. She has heart medication.
• 4:02
  She is the mother of someone who's rather famous.
• 4:06
  The Today Show's Savannah Guthrie And the next day she's
• 4:12
  expected in church. She does not show her
• 4:16
  congregation being good folks and being concerned about her
• 4:20
  because, hey, that that's out of the ordinary.
• 4:23
  Nancy's not here. They reach out to her kiddos.
• 4:27
  They go over, they find basically they find a crime
• 4:30
  scene. So the last time she was seen,
• 4:33
  it was January 31st. Of course the FBI released video
• 4:37
  of nefarious, A nefarious individual.
• 4:41
  I was about to say individuals. I think that more than one
• 4:43
  person was involved in this. Curious what you think about
• 4:46
  that. But the FBI has released some
• 4:50
  videos and some still footage from these videos of this
• 4:55
  person. They believe that Nancy Guthrie
• 4:58
  was taken sometime in the early morning hours, around 2:30 AM
• 5:03
  from her Catalina Foothills home outside of Tucson, AZ.
• 5:08
  She's not been seen since. Now, there has been stumbling,
• 5:12
  there has been bumbling. There have been press
• 5:16
  conferences. There have been press junkets,
• 5:20
  mostly by this guy, the sheriff of of Pima County there, Chris
• 5:25
  Nanos. We all have our opinions about
• 5:30
  him. We know that the Sheriff's
• 5:34
  Office and the FBI are involved in the search for Misses
• 5:38
  Guthrie. But being 84 years old, hope
• 5:43
  that she is and being a heart patient, she left her heart
• 5:49
  medication behind. I shouldn't say she let.
• 5:51
  She didn't leave it behind. Her abductors left it behind.
• 5:59
  Anyway, Hope is hope is not all lost.
• 6:04
  Hope is not all lost. She could be out there alive.
• 6:08
  Now, recently, as you guys know well, throughout this whole
• 6:13
  ordeal, there have been multiple messages from alleged ransomers
• 6:21
  asking for money to from the Guthrie family to in exchange
• 6:27
  for telling them where she is. Two more have come recently
• 6:34
  through TMZ. They have claimed they've been
• 6:37
  contradicting. Right.
• 6:38
  Yeah, I saw her alive. No, she's dead.
• 6:41
  Right. And anyway, I think I actually,
• 6:45
  you know what? I see a comment saying mostly a
• 6:48
  bunch of BS. And I think that is correct.
• 6:51
  And that is the thing that makes me the most angry, is that I
• 6:55
  think it is a bunch of BS. And why do people behave this
• 7:00
  way? We're going to get into it.
• 7:02
  We're going to have a long conversation about it tonight.
• 7:05
  Based on the psychological literature that I have been
• 7:08
  reading as a layperson, I don't want you guys to believe that
• 7:12
  I'm some sort of like educated A psychologist with bona fides.
• 7:17
  I am not any of that. But but I do read English pretty
• 7:21
  darn well. I taught good.
• 7:23
  I read good, I think anyway. And, and I'm starting to
• 7:29
  understand the answer to the age-old question, the devil man.
• 7:35
  That's my age-old question. OK, so let's start where I
• 7:39
  started getting all angry, right over here in an article in the
• 7:46
  New York Post by Patrick Riley. This is just going to be our
• 7:50
  introduction, OK? Headline reads Nancy Guthrie
• 7:55
  Ransom notes exposes sick plot against family, ex FBI agent
• 8:04
  claims Isn't that a double plural?
• 8:06
  Shouldn't that be ransom notes exposed?
• 8:08
  Nancy Guthrie Ransom notes expose It doesn't matter.
• 8:15
  That's just another thing for me to be angry about today, OK?
• 8:18
  Mr. Riley writes. The latest purported ransom
• 8:23
  notes sent to TMZ claiming to know who kidnapped Nancy Guthrie
• 8:27
  reveal a sick plot to continue to torment the missing
• 8:31
  grandmother's devastated family for a quick profit, according to
• 8:35
  a former FBI agent. The notes, which also claim to
• 8:39
  know where her body could be found, were sent just as
• 8:42
  Guthrie's daughter, Savannah Guthrie, made her emotional
• 8:45
  return to NBC's Today show for the first time since her mom
• 8:49
  vanished more than two months ago.
• 8:52
  Quote, they sent these right when Savannah Guthrie went back
• 8:56
  to work. That was by no mistake.
• 8:59
  That was absolutely meant to further torment her and her
• 9:03
  family, Jennifer Coffendaffer told Newsweek, continuing the
• 9:08
  quote. I think it speaks to the fact
• 9:10
  that there is at least someone out there that is still willing
• 9:13
  to torture this family by sending these continued
• 9:16
  communications with no proof of life, she added.
• 9:19
  Of course, then there's a recap. Since her disappearance,
• 9:27
  multiple purported ransom notes have been reported, including
• 9:31
  several sent to TMZ. The pair of notes received by
• 9:34
  the outlet on Monday, you know, three days ago, were sent from
• 9:38
  the same anonymous person who nearly two months ago demanded
• 9:41
  one Bitcoin in exchange for information related to Guthrie's
• 9:44
  abduction. The first note claimed that
• 9:46
  Guthrie was dead, but the sender said that their offer to deliver
• 9:50
  the kidnappers on a silver platter for the cryptocurrency
• 9:53
  still stands. And a second note, they claimed
• 9:56
  to have seen Guthrie alive with her captors in the Mexican state
• 10:00
  of Sonora, just across the border from Arizona.
• 10:04
  I don't know that it said just across the border from Arizona.
• 10:07
  Sonora does border Arizona, but it is a large state.
• 10:11
  It goes way down, way, way down into the southern reaches of
• 10:15
  North America. The person said they will
• 10:19
  surrender the information for half a Bitcoin, with another
• 10:22
  half transferred to their wallet when there is a public arrest.
• 10:26
  Coffin Daffer believes they're lying about having any real
• 10:29
  information because they're shooting for a single Bitcoin
• 10:31
  valued at about $71,000 rather than the massive reward that's
• 10:36
  been offered by Guthrie's family and law enforcement agencies.
• 10:42
  Quote, the reason this makes sense to me that they don't have
• 10:45
  that knowledge is because they're not seeking the $1.2
• 10:47
  million. Instead, they're trying to
• 10:50
  subvert it with this quickly paid.
• 10:52
  No hoops to jump through, just get the money.
• 10:54
  But I think that these people are scammers.
• 10:56
  So that got me to thinking and we're going to keep Missus
• 11:02
  Guthrie's photo up here while I kind of go through what what my
• 11:09
  research has revealed. My my question was why would
• 11:13
  somebody do this? Now, before I do, before I hop
• 11:16
  in, let me check in with you guys over here in the live chat.
• 11:21
  If you're on YouTube, if you're on Spotify right now, thank you
• 11:25
  very much for following on me on Spotify, man, that that helps
• 11:29
  the channel so much. I can't even tell you.
• 11:31
  If you are on Spotify, please follow me over there.
• 11:35
  And of course, links are in the description and all over my
• 11:40
  socials. OK.
• 11:41
  But thank you, thank you, thank you.
• 11:44
  Where have we got you guys coming in from?
• 11:46
  Christine Meadows is checking in from the Peach State.
• 11:50
  Just Jamie. Good afternoon from Utah.
• 11:53
  We got the West Coast of Florida, Erie, PA in the house,
• 11:57
  Salisbury, Tennessee, Florida. Bama Beth is here from Alabama,
• 12:03
  Jill from Minnesota, Fresno, CA, and Normie from Houston.
• 12:09
  Good evening from still freezing Old Dominion.
• 12:13
  I am in a mood too. You and me both.
• 12:18
  Tuavivi, the land of Poi and Spam is here.
• 12:21
  Sharon from Big Blue Heavenly Mountain is here, Western
• 12:24
  Kentucky, Indiana. Miss Chivos from Austin, TX,
• 12:27
  South Carolina, near West Virginia, but in Pittsburgh high
• 12:32
  from near Thoreau's Walden Pond. Good morning from sewer, France.
• 12:37
  Justice for Nancy. Thank you very much for being
• 12:39
  here, Deanne. I'd be far, far away in the land
• 12:43
  of cacti, says Sherry. Nevada, we've got Plainfield, IL
• 12:50
  from the state of the Wright Brothers.
• 12:52
  First flight. Glad to have you here.
• 12:53
  Southwest Missouri, Jersey Shore.
• 12:56
  So, so, so cool. I think Tuvivi, you might be my
• 13:03
  writer in our three questions. So that's pretty cool.
• 13:09
  Montana's in the house, Sherry says.
• 13:12
  Gavin, they need to release more info of the perp and a profile
• 13:15
  too. I think so.
• 13:18
  Patricia from the Berkshires in Western Mass.
• 13:21
  And Renee says I'm sick of these TMZ notes.
• 13:24
  I am too. Dandelioness watching from a
• 13:28
  state of confusion. Thank you all for checking in
• 13:31
  from wherever you are so, so so glad.
• 13:34
  Paddy watching from beautiful northwestern Pennsylvania.
• 13:36
  You might be a writer tonight as well, a frequent correspondent.
• 13:40
  Thank you very much. OK, let's I just have notes
• 13:47
  scribbled. I've, I've put them onto Acrobat
• 13:52
  so that I can, so I can follow kind of my line of, of thinking
• 13:57
  today. OK, again, the question is what
• 14:01
  the devil man? Why would somebody do this?
• 14:05
  So let's start with that question.
• 14:07
  And you know, the question being, why would someone send
• 14:11
  messages like this claiming to know what happened to Nancy
• 14:14
  Guthrie, sending them to media outlets, targeting a family that
• 14:19
  is already going through so much, just just so much.
• 14:25
  They're just being piled on. Why would they do that?
• 14:28
  Because if the messages are not real, then someone is
• 14:34
  purposefully inserting themselves into the tragedy.
• 14:38
  And that is not cool, man Not cool.
• 14:43
  So I started to do some research and I found a couple of things.
• 14:48
  The first one that I wanted to, I'm actually going to read kind
• 14:52
  of what I jotted down. It's called the theory of moral
• 14:56
  disengagement. And I don't know if this is
• 14:59
  interesting to you guys. Hopefully it is.
• 15:01
  It's interesting to me. I feel like I'm blowing out your
• 15:03
  ears. When I get excited, I scream.
• 15:05
  I need to stop doing that. It's it's fascinating to me.
• 15:13
  I hope it is to you. OK, so Albert Bandura's theory
• 15:17
  of moral disengagement, it describes what he calls the
• 15:22
  cognitive psychosocial process by which individuals convince
• 15:26
  themselves that ethical standards do not apply to them
• 15:31
  in a particular context. It's really interesting because
• 15:36
  the human brain, deep down in our lizard brain, we are capable
• 15:41
  of rationalizing anything, right?
• 15:43
  And this moral disengagement is like the rationalization of hey,
• 15:48
  ethics don't apply to me in this situation.
• 15:52
  And it allows a person to do super harmful things while at
• 15:59
  the same time maintaining their self worth, which I mean, most
• 16:04
  of us, we just would not send these kinds of letters to TMZ
• 16:10
  and other outlets to the Guthrie family because we would feel
• 16:14
  crappy about ourselves, man. We'd be like, I am the worst.
• 16:18
  I am worthless. We would not do that.
• 16:21
  But there are people that can. So they this moral disengagement
• 16:28
  involves suspending self condemnation through what
• 16:32
  Bandura said are 8 mechanisms that restructure harmful
• 16:38
  conduct, minimize responsibility, and distort
• 16:41
  consequences. And he grouped those or
• 16:43
  organized those 8 mechanisms into four stages or loci of self
• 16:51
  regulation. The first one is the behavior
• 16:54
  locus, 2nd is the agency locus, third is the outcome locus, and
• 17:00
  4th is the victim locus. So basically these 8 mechanisms
• 17:06
  are moral justification, right? They're saying hey, these
• 17:10
  detrimental actions are serving as a worthy moral, social, or
• 17:15
  ideological cause. Hey, I'm broke.
• 17:20
  If I were not broke, I would be able to care for my family and I
• 17:25
  would be able to make donations in the in the community and I
• 17:29
  would be able to do all these wonderful things If I were not
• 17:33
  broke. Therefore I can do this horrible
• 17:37
  thing and I have now morally justified it.
• 17:42
  The next one, according to Bandura, is what he called
• 17:45
  euphemistic labeling, that is, using sanitized language to make
• 17:51
  harmful behavior sound benign. For example, that's like in
• 17:55
  wartime, calling civilian deaths collateral damage.
• 18:01
  Right. We're just going to, we're going
• 18:02
  to add a euphemistic label. Yeah.
• 18:05
  It's too bad when there's collateral damage.
• 18:08
  Didn't mean to do that. It's beyond.
• 18:14
  Well, I don't. I don't know what's beyond, but
• 18:18
  but it is something that happens, right?
• 18:21
  The third little mechanism he calls the advantageous
• 18:25
  comparison, comparing harmful acts to much worse acts, making
• 18:29
  the current behavior seem minor or positive.
• 18:32
  So like, yeah, OK, I'm reaching out to the Guthrie's and I'm
• 18:36
  asking for this Bitcoin, but it's not like I killed anyone,
• 18:41
  right? So again, rationalizing it
• 18:44
  through, through comparison to much, much worse things.
• 18:48
  OK, that's all in the behavior locus.
• 18:52
  The next of the four loci is shifting responsibility or the
• 18:56
  agency locus, right? So the the first mechanism is
• 19:00
  displacement of responsibility, viewing actions as stemming from
• 19:04
  the dictates of authorities rather than a personal choice.
• 19:08
  So like I was just following orders and we could see this in
• 19:12
  this sort of or we might. I'm not saying we have seen
• 19:15
  this, but I'm saying we could see this in a case like this
• 19:17
  where maybe there is a Co conspirator after the fact that
• 19:24
  found out what was happening and is now going, well, I didn't do
• 19:30
  it, they did it, but you know, they now need me to send in
• 19:37
  these letters. So I'm going I'm just following
• 19:39
  their direction. That's that's what he's saying
• 19:41
  here. The next one is a diffusion.
• 19:45
  So the first was a displacement of responsibility.
• 19:47
  The next is a diffusion of responsibility, Right.
• 19:51
  Diffusion meaning to spread out. So spreading responsibility
• 19:55
  among a group so no single individual feels responsible for
• 20:00
  the outcome. This is actually a mechanism in
• 20:04
  human behavior that you can see in like the DP by firing squad,
• 20:08
  for example, right? The old way of doing it where
• 20:13
  there's several people in a firing squad, say they're five
• 20:17
  and only one of them has a live round, the rest of them have
• 20:22
  blanks. They all fire at the same time.
• 20:25
  One round hits the hits the convicted, and then all five
• 20:31
  people have that diffused responsibility.
• 20:36
  It probably wasn't me, it was all of us.
• 20:40
  We all did it, right? OK, the next of the four loci is
• 20:45
  the outcome locus ignoring or minimizing consequences.
• 20:50
  Right. So a disregard or distortion of
• 20:52
  consequences, Minimizing, ignoring, ignoring or
• 20:54
  disbelieving the harm caused by one actions.
• 20:57
  Oh, she was 84. She was a heart patient.
• 21:01
  She had a bad back. She could barely walk.
• 21:04
  I did her a favor. It's sick.
• 21:08
  But that's that's what that distortion or disregard of
• 21:12
  consequences. Oh, she was going to die anyway.
• 21:15
  Don't worry about it. Right.
• 21:17
  And then the next of the four loci is blaming the victim.
• 21:23
  And there are two mechanisms in that one.
• 21:26
  One is dehumanization. So stripping the victims or the
• 21:31
  victim of like human qualities, right?
• 21:33
  Making it easier to mistreat. We see this in prisoners of war.
• 21:39
  Oh my goodness. If you want to see this on
• 21:41
  display, guys, listen, this isn't a tangent.
• 21:48
  This, this is germane to what we're talking about, but
• 21:51
  everybody alive today should make the trip to Munich, and
• 22:00
  then once in Munich, take the short ride out to Dachau and see
• 22:05
  Dachau. You could watch, you could go to
• 22:08
  any concentration camp. It could be any one of them, but
• 22:11
  go to one of them. It is a master class and
• 22:17
  dehumanization. What happened in those
• 22:21
  concentration camps during the Holocaust in Germany.
• 22:26
  I have gone twice by myself to Dachau, and I've taken two of
• 22:30
  our older children there. Our oldest son couldn't last.
• 22:36
  We were in there 20 minutes and he just begged to leave.
• 22:40
  So, yeah, it's it's within us to dehumanize victims.
• 22:47
  And, and of course, that is victim blaming.
• 22:50
  And then the attribution of blame, arguing that the victim
• 22:53
  brought the suffering on themselves.
• 22:56
  You know, if she just would have come with us if we didn't have
• 23:00
  to fight her, if, you know, all that blood that was spilled
• 23:04
  didn't have to be done. It was her fault.
• 23:07
  That is, that is an example of the attribution of blame.
• 23:12
  So Albert Bandura explains how people justify harm by saying
• 23:16
  moral disengagement enables individuals to engage in conduct
• 23:20
  that violates their own moral standards without feeling
• 23:23
  distress. So if someone sends emails
• 23:26
  saying, hey, I know where her body is, I know who did this
• 23:30
  because of moral disengagement, they're not thinking I'm
• 23:34
  potentially re traumatizing this family.
• 23:36
  They're thinking, hey man, I'm just sending a message and I'm
• 23:40
  not forcing anyone to believe it.
• 23:42
  And I'm just putting that information out there.
• 23:44
  All they have to do is give me, I'm not even asking for the $1.2
• 23:48
  million, I'm asking for $71,000. I'm just putting that
• 23:51
  information out there. And maybe I mean, they should,
• 23:58
  but because they're disengaged morally, they're just not
• 24:03
  putting those things together. It's sick.
• 24:08
  So yeah. He also says the victim is
• 24:10
  stripped of human qualities or viewed in abstract terms.
• 24:13
  So, you know, these these would be scammers.
• 24:17
  They're not thinking of the Guthrie's as the Guthrie
• 24:20
  family's victims. They're they're just, they're
• 24:24
  stripping them. You know, they're Nancy's not
• 24:27
  the only victim here, right? The Guthrie family is and with
• 24:31
  these scammers who have probably nothing to do with the with the
• 24:38
  actual crime of abducting Nancy, their victims are the Guthrie's
• 24:48
  right, Annie, Tomaso, Cameron, Savannah, all the grandkids and
• 24:56
  but but to these people, they're going, they're not they're not a
• 24:59
  family. They are.
• 25:01
  They're a case, they are a mark, they are a headline, they are an
• 25:07
  opportunity and that's it. They have they have
• 25:12
  disassociated themselves from morality.
• 25:16
  Now as I'm as I'm going through this stuff, I really hope that
• 25:21
  in the live chat, you guys will put your comments so that I can
• 25:25
  see what you're thinking as well.
• 25:27
  I did, I did see, I think I saw a super chat.
• 25:30
  I want to make sure that I bring that up, Cheryl says Gavin,
• 25:36
  these people are sick. If they really knew anything
• 25:38
  truthful about the case, they'd be $1.2 million richer checking
• 25:42
  in from Florida. I agree.
• 25:45
  And thank you Cheryl's for starting us out with the with
• 25:49
  the Super chat. Deeply appreciated guys are
• 25:52
  awesome. See if there's anything else
• 25:54
  that you guys wanted me to bring up.
• 25:56
  Any any GFS in there? Internet jury says Gavin, who
• 26:04
  out there is obsessed with this case and also had a felony
• 26:08
  federal conviction for harassing a friend of the Guthrie's.
• 26:11
  In any other case, said person would be looked at closely.
• 26:19
  Yeah. OK.
• 26:22
  See if there's Mary. This is Humans are the cruelest
• 26:25
  creatures of all creatures. Yeah.
• 26:33
  Teresa says, I think the random notes are some Nigerian Prince
• 26:36
  type and that's exactly right. I mean, I mean, people who are
• 26:40
  scammers, they, they are disengaged morally right from
• 26:46
  their moral compass or they're finding some way to justify it
• 26:49
  as, as you know, we just, we just went through with, with
• 26:54
  Bandura's theory of, of moral disengagement.
• 26:59
  OK, so the next thing that I wanted to, you know, as I was,
• 27:05
  as I was doing this, this research into what the devil man
• 27:11
  trying to answer this question, why would some, why would
• 27:14
  somebody do this? And Jennifer Coffendafer is
• 27:17
  right. These people are sick, right?
• 27:20
  I, I found some literature by Delroy Paulhus Paulus.
• 27:26
  I don't know how to pronounce the name and Kevin Williams and
• 27:30
  this theory is called the dark triad.
• 27:34
  I don't know if you guys have heard of this before.
• 27:36
  I hadn't heard of it but it makes perfect sense to me.
• 27:38
  The dark triad is what they call 3 socially terrible.
• 27:46
  What do we want? Malevolent personality traits?
• 27:48
  They are, we talk about the, the first one on this channel and
• 27:52
  throughout true crime a lot narcissism, right?
• 27:55
  This whole idea of superiority, superiority to others to
• 28:00
  entitlement things that they're not entitled to.
• 28:03
  The second of the dark triad is Machiavellianism, somebody who
• 28:10
  uses strategy to manipulate others.
• 28:13
  And then the third is psychopathy or psychopathy,
• 28:17
  however you want to pronounce it, which I would define as a
• 28:22
  lack of empathy, right? Somebody who cannot feel
• 28:27
  empathy, somebody who cannot feel remorse.
• 28:30
  And this dark triad, while independent, or these traits,
• 28:38
  while independent, they often overlap.
• 28:40
  And Dr. exploitive behavior. And Paulus and William said the
• 28:44
  individuals with these traits account for about 7% of the
• 28:51
  population, according to their research, right?
• 28:55
  And they frequently utilize manipulation for self-interest.
• 29:00
  So they describe this dark triad as a tendency to exploit others
• 29:05
  for personal begin personal gain.
• 29:08
  So let's look at this behavior as we're thinking about why
• 29:14
  would somebody like, let's answer the question, what the
• 29:18
  freaking devil man? Why would somebody do this?
• 29:22
  Well, somebody is willing to insert themselves into a high
• 29:25
  profile case. They're willing to claim that
• 29:28
  they have some sort of insider knowledge.
• 29:30
  They are willing to make demands.
• 29:33
  They are willing to make statements tied to those
• 29:36
  demands. And it, I mean, that is, that is
• 29:41
  classic Machiavellian, narcissistic, calculated
• 29:46
  manipulation, right? So when we see these notes
• 29:50
  going, I am so hopeful. I am so hopeful that the FBI, we
• 29:56
  know of one arrest. You know what I need to do?
• 29:59
  I need to get my like AI assistant just checking all of
• 30:04
  the US attorney's offices for announcements of arrests because
• 30:09
  we only know of the one arrest so far of somebody who inserted
• 30:13
  themselves into the case. I'm sure there's so many more,
• 30:22
  right? And it's not chaos, guys.
• 30:24
  It's not people. It's not people going having a
• 30:28
  wild hair and saying, oh, I, I, I'm, hey, I might be able to
• 30:32
  make $71,000 here. No, they, they know and
• 30:37
  understand exactly what they're doing.
• 30:42
  These narcissistic Machiavelli stick psychotic people are
• 30:50
  willing. That is roughly, according to
• 30:53
  Paulus and Williams, about 7% of the human family.
• 31:01
  They are willing to, to manipulate and, and calculate
• 31:07
  and use strategy to get what it is that they want or at least
• 31:12
  attempt to get what they want. Now, the third thing I found was
• 31:17
  a, this one, this one actually, I, I actually think that we all
• 31:27
  probably understand this on some level.
• 31:32
  You know, those of us who like to tease people.
• 31:38
  And I'm this way with kiddos. I, I think it's delightful to,
• 31:41
  to just kind of tease the kids and you get that kind of rush of
• 31:47
  joy by by in my case, you know, it's innocently just kind of
• 31:51
  teasing trolls get that same kind of of rush, right?
• 32:04
  And there are certain there's a certain segment of the
• 32:08
  population that get a certain satisfaction, which Paul Ekman
• 32:15
  described as duping delight, the delight that one gets out of
• 32:23
  duping another. OK, so this is this is what I
• 32:27
  wrote down. Duping delight is a term coined
• 32:31
  by Paul Ekman. He's a psychologist to describe
• 32:34
  the sense of pleasure or satisfaction some people
• 32:38
  experience when they successfully deceive others.
• 32:42
  Have you ever met somebody who's just a storyteller?
• 32:45
  You know, it's just a storyteller just likes to tell
• 32:47
  lies. I think most of us were that way
• 32:52
  as we were little and kind of like, lost it as we grew up.
• 32:55
  But there are people who are grown adults that man, they just
• 33:00
  love to successfully deceive others and, and they will, they
• 33:04
  will commit to the bed man. It will not be broken.
• 33:08
  So in Eggman's research on basically it was it was research
• 33:12
  on lying and on facial expressions that he did.
• 33:15
  He observed that for certain individuals, the act of getting
• 33:18
  away with a lie, especially one that fools or manipulates
• 33:21
  someone can produce a kind of emotional reward or or even like
• 33:28
  full on excitement. And it's not always about money
• 33:32
  or outcome, but about the feeling of control, the feeling
• 33:36
  of superiority, the feeling of cleverness that that comes from
• 33:44
  pulling off a deception, which can make the behavior self
• 33:48
  reinforcing, right and sometimes habitual.
• 33:52
  So thinking about the sick, sick person who might be sending
• 33:58
  these, sending these notes in, it might not be about the money
• 34:03
  at all. It might not be that they're
• 34:05
  trying to get get rich off of this.
• 34:08
  It could just be that they get off on deceiving someone else,
• 34:18
  something like that, right. Now, if we think about the
• 34:22
  messages that were sent to TMZ and other places, these messages
• 34:27
  were not sent privately, right? They were sent to the media
• 34:29
  outlets. They were sent very, very
• 34:31
  publicly. And so I think, I mean, this
• 34:37
  isn't in Eckman's research, but I think maybe if that person is
• 34:43
  just trying to deceive someone, just just for the giggles of it,
• 34:49
  I think it probably amplifies it if they see that many people are
• 34:55
  deceived by their by their tail, by their lie.
• 35:01
  So, yeah, and maybe it's not just that they're trying to
• 35:07
  deceive all of us. Maybe they're like, oh, the
• 35:11
  Guthrie's. It would be hilarious to deceive
• 35:14
  them, to deceive them into thinking that.
• 35:18
  I know where Nancy Guthrie is. Yeah, it's a very snidely
• 35:23
  whiplash. You know, I got the got the
• 35:25
  mustache twirl. Like, just, it's just a level of
• 35:29
  evil that is just so bad, man. Just just trying to convince
• 35:35
  this family, hey, I know where your mom is.
• 35:39
  And you know, I don't want to, I don't want to besmirch anyone's
• 35:46
  beliefs, but this is the very reason that I don't buy into
• 35:52
  medium mediums. I almost had media, but people
• 35:57
  who claim to to be a medium to the great beyond the reason that
• 36:02
  I personally don't buy into it. And I and there's several people
• 36:05
  that I love that do, and I respect their their belief.
• 36:09
  I don't mean to dismirge, to besmirch it, but it's the reason
• 36:14
  that I don't buy into it is because I think that the
• 36:16
  incentive structure exists that that person is just really
• 36:21
  enjoying deceiving somebody else.
• 36:28
  OK, So is duping Delight from Paul Ekman something that
• 36:35
  applies here? Are they, you know, trying to
• 36:40
  influence the family, trying to influence the narrative, trying
• 36:43
  to see if their claims will be reported in the media, trying to
• 36:47
  insert themselves out of the story And then when people
• 36:50
  believe it, getting this like rush of adrenaline or dopamine.
• 36:58
  Yeah, I, I think it's possible. I, I do, I think it's possible.
• 37:04
  So those are the reasons why now I want to get into selecting the
• 37:08
  target, but let's see what you guys are saying over over in the
• 37:18
  over in the live chat here. Affordable, affordable, says
• 37:24
  Gavin. I was in another channel
• 37:26
  following this case and I and I cannot tell you how many people
• 37:29
  keep saying that the family is involved.
• 37:32
  So ridiculous. Yeah.
• 37:33
  And and I don't see it. I don't see it.
• 37:36
  And And why put it out there? Is it is it just something that
• 37:41
  you get satisfaction about sharing your heartfelt belief?
• 37:44
  Are you trying to get that duping delight?
• 37:48
  Right? Same.
• 37:52
  Affordable says they're saying Tommaso is involved.
• 37:54
  That really bothers me. And that Annie and Savannah
• 37:56
  knew. How sick is that?
• 37:58
  Yeah, I It is. It is sick.
• 38:03
  Hey Mooney, thank you very much for gifting those memberships.
• 38:06
  You guys are awesome, Archangel says.
• 38:10
  Love the psychology topic of today.
• 38:12
  Well, I'm glad. I'm glad because I am.
• 38:15
  I'm angry about this today. I've really been feeling it
• 38:18
  today. What have we got from Second
• 38:22
  Beach Gal? Thank you very much for the
• 38:24
  generous super chat. Usually at this point not it's a
• 38:28
  situation the state is covering up sorry Long Island serial
• 38:32
  killer and Coburger are the same These are not typical cases just
• 38:35
  my opinion. While you're certainly entitled
• 38:38
  to your opinion I yeah, I I don't think that I don't think
• 38:45
  that there is a cover up here. I really don't now having said
• 38:50
  that there there are such things as cover ups and conspiracies.
• 38:54
  That's why we have anti conspiracy laws.
• 38:56
  But but I don't think that there's cover up here.
• 38:59
  Thank you very much for that, Faye Fantasy production, says
• 39:04
  Gavin. What do you think the punishment
• 39:05
  should be for someone who's caught doing this?
• 39:08
  Oh, I think it should be severe. I I mean, I'm not, I'm not
• 39:11
  calling for somebody's head or anything.
• 39:16
  But yeah, I think it should be severe.
• 39:18
  I think, I think prison time on a first offence.
• 39:23
  I think prison time, maybe something like 3-4, five years,
• 39:28
  something like that. For somebody who's caught doing
• 39:30
  this the first time, do it again.
• 39:33
  Double it. Do it again.
• 39:34
  Double that. It it should be.
• 39:37
  It should be severe. Yeah.
• 39:42
  Let's see, Archangel. Archangel Morici says.
• 39:45
  I've been wondering if stalking has been going on in this case.
• 39:48
  Has Savannah or her mother had a stalker in the past that hasn't
• 39:52
  been released? Information like that hasn't
• 39:54
  been released to my knowledge, but it would not surprise me.
• 39:59
  And the fact that law enforcement was asking for, you
• 40:06
  know, video and stuff like that from neighbors from certain
• 40:09
  dates prior to the, I think January.
• 40:15
  Yeah. Anyway, certain dates prior to
• 40:16
  her disappearing is an indication that there at least
• 40:20
  was casing. And make perhaps stalking too.
• 40:25
  Mooney says Gavin. They get off on others.
• 40:27
  People pain, other people's pain.
• 40:30
  Yep. Cabling, says cruel, devious,
• 40:33
  self-centered. I win, you lose.
• 40:35
  I don't think she was taken for gain unless it was family.
• 40:38
  Otherwise it was just it was just right.
• 40:44
  Gavin. The mustache twirl.
• 40:46
  Oh, I see. Yeah, it was just the mustache
• 40:48
  twirl. Could just be evilness.
• 40:52
  Yes, yes, yes, indeed. OK, great comments guys.
• 40:55
  Thank you for those. OK, let's transition to now that
• 41:01
  we kind of have gotten into why somebody might do this.
• 41:05
  The next question is why target Nancy Guthrie, right, If you're
• 41:12
  and why target her family? Because we're talking about two
• 41:16
  different crimes here in my we're talking about the crime of
• 41:19
  the abduction of Nancy Guthrie. But really we're talking about
• 41:23
  the crime of torturing her family by sending these what I
• 41:28
  think are fake messages and what Savannah Guthrie has said she
• 41:32
  thinks are mostly fake messages. OK, so there is a theory called
• 41:39
  the routine activity theory. This is from Lawrence E Cohen
• 41:46
  and Marcus Felsen. This theory explains that crime
• 41:51
  is not random, but occurs when three elements come together at
• 41:55
  the same time. A motivated offender, a suitable
• 41:59
  target, and the absence of a capable guardian.
• 42:03
  I thought that was interesting. Again, I mean, we're talking
• 42:07
  about two crimes, but for for this conversation, we're talking
• 42:11
  about one crime. And that is why are people
• 42:13
  torturing the Guthrie family? OK, so they're, they've got
• 42:18
  motivation and we'll we'll get into the motivation.
• 42:21
  They've got a target that is suitable to them and they
• 42:26
  they're vulnerable, right? They don't have a they don't
• 42:31
  have a capable guardian protecting them.
• 42:36
  OK, so the theory emphasizes that offenders actively select
• 42:41
  targets based on opportunity rather than impulse.
• 42:45
  A suitable target is typically someone who is accessible,
• 42:49
  vulnerable, or valuable in some way.
• 42:53
  While lack of guardianship means there's no immediate deterrent,
• 42:57
  such as law enforcement oversight or skepticism, right?
• 43:01
  A deterrent could be like a big giant muscular man armed with
• 43:05
  guns. It could also mean that if
• 43:09
  people. It could also mean skepticism if
• 43:12
  if I do this, people won't be skeptical, right?
• 43:14
  There's no guardian. OK, so in this framework these
• 43:20
  were my notes. Crime is less about the
• 43:22
  offenders background and more about the situation, meaning
• 43:26
  that when the right conditions align, the likelihood of
• 43:28
  victimization increases significantly, right.
• 43:32
  And this this kind of goes to my theory.
• 43:36
  There's probably some psychology on this, that there are just
• 43:39
  some people that are criminally minded and they're open to
• 43:43
  criminal behavior more so than than others.
• 43:47
  It's probably a spectrum, It's probably not binary, right?
• 43:50
  But so the criminal reminder like, hey, wait a minute, wait,
• 43:53
  wait, wait, wait. I, I've got an opportunity here.
• 43:59
  I've got a vulnerable person. Nobody's going to protect them
• 44:05
  from me. I'm in, right.
• 44:10
  So in this case, the suitable target is a missing person,
• 44:16
  national attention and a family actively seeking answers in the
• 44:22
  disappearance of their loved one, right?
• 44:24
  So in this high engagement environment, are those three
• 44:31
  elements, I guess, are those three elements, is there a high
• 44:38
  incentive, right, motivated offender?
• 44:42
  There's definitely a suitable target here.
• 44:44
  There's definitely I, I, I think that you could argue that that
• 44:49
  the FBI is watching out for the Guthrie's, that the Pima County
• 44:53
  sheriff's are watching out for the Guthrie's.
• 44:55
  But so far it looks like they haven't made any further
• 44:58
  arrests. They haven't found out who these
• 45:00
  people are. So is there a guardian right in
• 45:03
  this super high engagement, you know, environment?
• 45:09
  So, yeah, from a criminal standpoint, this is that the
• 45:15
  Guthrie family is a suitable target, according again to the
• 45:20
  research by Felson and Cohen. All right.
• 45:23
  The other thing is, I guess, vulnerability.
• 45:28
  And there is a criminologist named Cassandra Cross who has
• 45:34
  done a whole bunch of research on fraud specifically.
• 45:39
  And so when we were talking just just now about like selecting a
• 45:44
  target, Cassandra Cross talks about vulnerability targeting.
• 45:51
  OK, so, you know, we could select these targets because of
• 45:55
  these three things. Or according to Cassandra, maybe
• 45:58
  it's just that we've got a vulnerable target.
• 46:00
  We've got the Guthrie family here.
• 46:01
  They want they want answers. They're willing to pay.
• 46:04
  They've shown a willingness to pay, right?
• 46:08
  This could be fun. Something like that.
• 46:10
  So OK. Criminologist Cassandra Cross
• 46:14
  has shown that fraud offenders don't typically choose victims
• 46:18
  at random, but instead engage in what can be described as
• 46:22
  vulnerability targeting, selecting individuals based on
• 46:26
  their likelihood to respond during moments of emotional or
• 46:30
  situational stress. Right.
• 46:33
  And of course, for fraudsters, in this case, we're we're moving
• 46:37
  away from, you know, the dopamine rush of just duping
• 46:40
  somebody, deceiving somebody that we're talking about, people
• 46:43
  who want something, they want that Bitcoin, they want that
• 46:46
  money, right? So in Cassandra Cross, research
• 46:51
  on fraud victimization, she found that victims are often
• 46:55
  targeted when they're experiencing some sort of
• 46:58
  disruption, isolation, heightened emotional need,
• 47:03
  making them more receptive to unsolicited contact or claims of
• 47:07
  help. By the way, if you are somebody
• 47:10
  who is elderly, you are in you. You are part of a vulnerable
• 47:15
  group of people. Be on the lookout for this kind
• 47:17
  of stuff, right? So disruption, isolation,
• 47:21
  heightened emotional need. So Cross emphasizes that victims
• 47:27
  are not inherently gullible, but are accessible and responsive at
• 47:32
  a particular moment in time, meaning the success of the scam
• 47:37
  depends less on the victim's intelligence and more on timing
• 47:42
  and on context and emotional state.
• 47:45
  So this reframes the fraud as a process, like as a process of of
• 47:54
  identifying and exploiting the right person at the right time
• 47:58
  when they are the most unsuspecting, the most
• 48:01
  vulnerable, the most easy, the most easy time for them to be
• 48:07
  tricked. Right now, think about the
• 48:10
  Guthrie family. Their mom is gone.
• 48:14
  She's disappeared. They're wondering, is she alive?
• 48:17
  Is she dead? They're wondering will the
• 48:20
  police find out this person, they they may the definitely are
• 48:25
  feeling disruption. They may feel isolation.
• 48:29
  They probably do. They are they are vulnerable
• 48:35
  victims, right? So yeah, let me go through my
• 48:38
  notes here. They're waiting for answers.
• 48:40
  They're dealing with uncertainty.
• 48:41
  They're emotionally invested in any new information.
• 48:44
  So when a message that comes in and says, hey, I know what
• 48:48
  happened, that is somebody probing or it could be somebody
• 48:56
  probing. Hey, are they at their most
• 48:59
  vulnerable right now and that that's enough to really piss you
• 49:05
  off right PIST is what we become OK, I've got so much here.
• 49:14
  Hopefully you guys are enjoying this.
• 49:16
  I, while it made me angry, it also, it also helped me kind of
• 49:25
  deal through my anger today. All right, moving on.
• 49:29
  Psychologist Robert B Cialdini, best known for his work on
• 49:34
  persuasion, found that people often rely on mental shortcuts,
• 49:40
  also known as heuristics, when making decisions, especially
• 49:44
  under conditions of uncertainty or emotional stress.
• 49:49
  So again, we're talking, we're framing this as what would would
• 49:54
  be criminals, fraudsters, you know, trying to make a quick
• 50:01
  buck even though they have nothing to do with the abduction
• 50:06
  of Nancy Guthrie. What?
• 50:09
  What would these fraudsters rely on?
• 50:14
  Heuristics, right? People being under conditions of
• 50:18
  emotional stress. OK, so in his book called
• 50:24
  Influence the Psychology of Persuasion, Cialdini explains
• 50:27
  that when we are unsure, we don't look inside ourselves for
• 50:31
  answers, we look to others. And more broadly, we rely on
• 50:35
  quick, emotionally driven judgments rather than careful
• 50:38
  analysis. His research shows that
• 50:41
  heightened emotional states such as fear, urgency, or hope make
• 50:46
  individuals more susceptible to influence because they reduce
• 50:49
  the likelihood of slow critical thinking.
• 50:53
  Right. Can't think slowly on this.
• 50:55
  We got to move along. And actually I have to have to
• 50:57
  rephrase this. I don't know that a book or a
• 51:00
  paper, but it was called influence the psychology of
• 51:02
  persuasion. So in these moments, people are
• 51:06
  more likely to respond automatically to cues like
• 51:09
  authority, scarcity, perceived insider knowledge, right?
• 51:13
  Think about these last couple of of notes that TMZ reports on.
• 51:19
  I saw her with her kidnappers. I know where she is.
• 51:24
  I know that she is dead. I have this insider knowledge.
• 51:27
  And that knowledge is why. Well, and that's why emotionally
• 51:34
  charged situations are especially powerful contexts for
• 51:41
  manipulation and persuasion. Right now.
• 51:45
  The claims that are being made here, she's dead.
• 51:47
  I saw her alive. I know where she is.
• 51:50
  That's fear and that's hope. That's back and forth, that's
• 51:52
  emotional swinging. And that could be designed.
• 51:57
  It's not accidental. It could be designed to keep the
• 52:00
  Guthrie family engaged, to keep them responding so, so, so wrong
• 52:07
  all the way around. Let me check in to see what you
• 52:09
  guys are saying in the live chat.
• 52:11
  See if there's see if there's anything that you guys want me
• 52:16
  to see second Beach Gal says. With all due respect to my
• 52:25
  favorite show, it's gone on too long and the New Hollywood seems
• 52:28
  to be long drawn out Hollywood personalities and social media
• 52:31
  like Blake and what's his name, the New Hollywood.
• 52:36
  OK, yeah, I I have been watching the Baldoni Lively thing.
• 52:42
  Yeah, mark my words. I'll keep you posted on numbers.
• 52:48
  OK. All right, let's see.
• 52:52
  Hey, Ron. Thanks so much.
• 52:54
  Glad that you that you stopped by.
• 52:57
  It's always good to see you here.
• 52:59
  A big fan. Sherry says duty.
• 53:02
  Ron. Good to know you support Gavin.
• 53:04
  I just found him. It's hard to know who to follow.
• 53:06
  I felt loved and received a gift membership on the second video I
• 53:09
  turned on. Well, that was probably Mooney.
• 53:12
  It could have been others. You guys are so generous with
• 53:14
  one another, Mabel says. Also mental health of both
• 53:18
  victim and suspect. Indeed.
• 53:20
  Indeed. Yeah.
• 53:22
  Mooney. It was good to see Ron.
• 53:24
  I love Ron's channel. Love, love, love Ron's channel.
• 53:29
  Okie, dokie. All right, The next thing.
• 53:33
  Language analysis. Criminologists Michael Levi and
• 53:37
  Russell G Smith have shown that the language used in fraud is
• 53:41
  carefully constructed to create credibility and compliance.
• 53:45
  In their research on deception and financial crime, they note
• 53:49
  that offenders often present themselves as having access to
• 53:52
  privileged or insider information, which we already
• 53:56
  talked about a little bit in order to establish authority and
• 53:59
  lower skepticism. As they explain, fraudsters seek
• 54:02
  to gain the trust of victims by presenting information in a
• 54:06
  manner that appears credible, authoritative, and urgent, often
• 54:10
  using confident, definitive statements rather than tentative
• 54:14
  or uncertain language. This kind of wording, statements
• 54:21
  that sound absolute, exclusive or time sensitive is designed to
• 54:26
  override doubt prompt action. It's designed, guys.
• 54:29
  It's designed and practice phrases that imply certainty or
• 54:33
  unique knowledge aren't as just aren't just descriptive.
• 54:36
  They're strategic, functioning as tools of persuasion meant to
• 54:40
  make the recipient feel that they're being given access to
• 54:43
  something important that others don't have.
• 54:45
  So when someone writes, I know where her body is, I know who
• 54:49
  her kidnappers are or her kidnapper is, that is not just
• 54:55
  casual wording, that is authoritative language.
• 54:59
  And it's designed to it's designed to defraud the the
• 55:08
  victim here. Right.
• 55:11
  OK. And then not the last thing,
• 55:14
  maybe the last. Well, there's a couple more
• 55:16
  things I did some, I did some research on contradictions,
• 55:21
  Right. OK, So in the last two letters,
• 55:27
  you know, she's she's dead in one, she's alive in another.
• 55:32
  And there's a psychologist, his name was Leon Festinger.
• 55:38
  He developed what's known as cognitive dissonance Dissonance
• 55:43
  theory, right? He found that when people are
• 55:48
  confronted with conflicting information, they don't always
• 55:51
  reject it. Instead, they often try to
• 55:54
  resolve that inconsistency internally, he wrote.
• 55:58
  Festinger wrote that the existence of dissonance leads to
• 56:02
  efforts to reduce the dissonance, meaning people are
• 56:05
  actually motivated to make sense of the contradictions rather
• 56:08
  than walk away from them. In emotionally charged
• 56:11
  situations, this effect can be even stronger.
• 56:14
  Rather than dismissing conflicting claims such as one
• 56:17
  message saying a person is alive and another saying they're dead,
• 56:20
  individuals may become more engaged trying to determine
• 56:24
  which version is true. This process can deepen
• 56:27
  involvement rather than reduce it, because the mind seeks
• 56:30
  resolution. We talked about dissonance in
• 56:36
  music a lot. You guys know that I, I love
• 56:39
  music and I love the, the construction of music.
• 56:45
  We, we talk about dissonance a lot in music when we're
• 56:48
  constructing chord progressions, for example, right there, there
• 56:54
  are chords that are called suspended chords, and these
• 56:57
  chords use mathematically connected notes to the
• 57:02
  fundamental note. They're still mathematically
• 57:05
  corrected, but they're they're not as they're not as resolving,
• 57:11
  they don't feel resolved. So it leaves you in a state of
• 57:15
  suspense. That's why they call them
• 57:18
  suspended courts, right? And it requires that that you
• 57:23
  like, if you go into a suspended cord, it requires that you go
• 57:28
  back to if you're in a major scale, let's say the major
• 57:32
  fundamental cord. And what that does is it gives
• 57:36
  the listener a sense of resolution that just feels good.
• 57:42
  And when I read this, this cognitive dissonance theory by
• 57:47
  Festinger, that's kind of what I went to.
• 57:49
  I was like, oh, you know, they're they're offering
• 57:53
  dissonance to their victims, in this case, the Guthrie's, who
• 58:00
  then go through the process of finding the resolution for
• 58:04
  themselves. It's like going from that, that
• 58:07
  chord that just leaves you suspended to finally back to,
• 58:10
  oh, I feel OK, feel OK now. Right.
• 58:13
  This is actually one of the reasons that I love The Beatles
• 58:15
  so much, by the way, Rock'n'roll music is actually built very
• 58:20
  easily. And I know there's a bit of a
• 58:21
  tangent. It's it's built very simply.
• 58:25
  But man, The Beatles did a good job of using those suspended
• 58:29
  chords to just, I don't know, to just bring us back.
• 58:33
  And it just feels like you're embraced in a warm blanket,
• 58:36
  Right. And I think that's what what
• 58:39
  some fraudsters could be counting on with the Guthrie's.
• 58:44
  Right. OK, so enough of that.
• 58:51
  The the last thing I, yeah, this is kind of getting into my
• 58:55
  conclusion from what I from what I kind of prepared.
• 58:58
  It's talking about the real world harm.
• 59:02
  OK, so there's a criminologist, name's Mark Button.
• 59:06
  He has studied real world impacts of fraud extensively and
• 59:15
  the harm that goes well beyond the financial loss.
• 59:20
  Say the Guthrie's paid a Bitcoin, then they're out 71
• 59:26
  grand or whatever Bitcoin is worth right now, right?
• 59:30
  But the harm, at least according to Button and according to like
• 59:36
  my own common sense, goes way beyond that.
• 59:40
  So Button, in his research on fraud victimization, found that
• 59:45
  many victims experience significant emotional and
• 59:48
  psychological consequences, noting that the impact of fraud
• 59:52
  can be as severe as that experienced by victims of more
• 59:55
  conventional crimes. Victims frequently report
• 59:59
  anxiety, depression, loss of confidence, a diminished ability
• 1:00:05
  to trust others, effects that can persist long after the
• 1:00:10
  incident itself. In some cases, the emotional
• 1:00:13
  toll is compounded by feelings of shame or self blame, which
• 1:00:18
  can discourage victims from speaking out or seeking help.
• 1:00:23
  Buttons. Work, it highlights that fraud
• 1:00:26
  is not a victimless crime, right?
• 1:00:31
  Again, remember in the beginning we were talking about that moral
• 1:00:36
  disengagement, right? Moral disengagement.
• 1:00:42
  You know, you're, you're just disengaged from any, any
• 1:00:46
  morality, any moral compass, any line of ethics.
• 1:00:51
  You, a person may convince themselves, oh, there's no real
• 1:00:56
  victim here. They're rich.
• 1:00:58
  I can just get a little money out of them now.
• 1:01:01
  And, and there's no harm, no foul, right?
• 1:01:06
  But that's not what Button said, right?
• 1:01:08
  Fraud is not a victimless, victimless crime.
• 1:01:11
  It produces real and lasting harm, particularly when it
• 1:01:14
  targets individuals who are already vulnerable or in
• 1:01:18
  distress. It's not just annoying, it's not
• 1:01:22
  just misleading. It reopens wounds.
• 1:01:24
  It creates confusion. It prolongs uncertainty for a
• 1:01:29
  family that's already dealing with deep and lasting trauma.
• 1:01:34
  So I guess when we look at everything that we just went
• 1:01:37
  through my my rabbit hole of reading papers and and trying to
• 1:01:45
  find resolution to the feelings that I was feeling, the feelings
• 1:01:48
  of angers that I was feeling today.
• 1:01:52
  Here are a couple things that I that I came to 1st.
• 1:01:56
  The messages that are being sent are not random.
• 1:01:58
  They are designed. They fit exactly into what we
• 1:02:05
  know of criminology and psychology that they are, that
• 1:02:12
  there is someone out there or, or multiple people out there
• 1:02:15
  willing to manipulate. They're they're able to justify
• 1:02:20
  the harm that they're making. They might enjoy what it is that
• 1:02:26
  they're doing. That deception right.
• 1:02:28
  The the duping, you know, what was it called?
• 1:02:33
  The duping, duping delight, right?
• 1:02:41
  Getting, getting that delight out of duping somebody.
• 1:02:46
  You know, they're able to identify a high emotion, high
• 1:02:50
  visibility case and insert themselves into it.
• 1:02:53
  And I guess that's why this is so infuriating even to those of
• 1:02:59
  us who are spectators along the periphery who care about this
• 1:03:03
  woman. We have never met her, but she
• 1:03:06
  is a victim and we care about her and we care about her
• 1:03:09
  children and her grandchildren and her neighbors, the people
• 1:03:13
  that go to church with her, her friends.
• 1:03:16
  People have known her for fifty, 60-70 years, right?
• 1:03:20
  It it hits US hard. It hits US hard because not only
• 1:03:26
  do we recognize that they're being scammed and that's just
• 1:03:31
  oh, it's enough to make you pist.
• 1:03:33
  We also know this is a real family in real crisis and
• 1:03:37
  somebody's using that as leverage and it is infuriating.
• 1:03:42
  Infuriating. That was a long kind of a
• 1:03:48
  tantrum for me. But let's see what you guys are
• 1:03:52
  saying over in the in the live chat before we move on.
• 1:04:00
  Cabling frauds are frauds, Youtubers, not you Gavin.
• 1:04:04
  But some like TMZ make me ponder their credibility.
• 1:04:07
  And I try really hard to not be just a gossip site, right?
• 1:04:12
  We want, we want to learn from this stuff and we want to help
• 1:04:16
  when we can. You know, when I started on
• 1:04:17
  YouTube, on YouTube, it was with my friend Rick, and our channel
• 1:04:22
  was called Solve Crimes with Rick and Gavin.
• 1:04:24
  We wanted, we came into this wanting to help solve crimes and
• 1:04:28
  in this case, by keeping this case alive, keeping her picture
• 1:04:32
  out there, hopefully somebody will see this and we'll say I
• 1:04:36
  can't, I can't participate in this anymore and we'll do the
• 1:04:39
  right thing. So I'm hoping that we're
• 1:04:43
  learning something. I'm hoping that we're helping
• 1:04:45
  somehow. Let's see Phoenix rising saying
• 1:04:56
  good to see you Phoenix. I've gotten to the thought that
• 1:04:58
  the notes to TMZ claiming to have information could also be
• 1:05:01
  to make the Guthrie's look bad. They have money, but they won't
• 1:05:04
  risk half of Bitcoin with the for the info that.
• 1:05:08
  Yeah, that's an interesting take.
• 1:05:12
  Hope G says my dad was a victim of fraud this weekend.
• 1:05:16
  Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. Some guys said they're from the
• 1:05:19
  city and had just paved the highway.
• 1:05:21
  They offered to use their leftover tar to pave his
• 1:05:23
  driveway for a big discount. They charged 10 times the
• 1:05:27
  amount. Wow.
• 1:05:30
  Cabling. There's no moral conviction
• 1:05:32
  anymore. And some people there just
• 1:05:33
  isn't. Yeah.
• 1:05:36
  They're just isn't okey dokey. There is an article that I want
• 1:05:44
  to bring it to you guys to just kind of close out this
• 1:05:50
  conversation about Nancy Guthrie before we move on.
• 1:05:52
  OK, this from page 6 written by Teresa Roca.
• 1:05:57
  And this came out yesterday. Again, you know, we, we just
• 1:06:02
  don't know what's going on. But the headline reads why walls
• 1:06:05
  are closing in on Nancy Guthrie's kidnapper after
• 1:06:08
  Savannah's today return. OK, the walls are closing in on
• 1:06:12
  Nancy Guthrie's kidnapper after Savannah Guthrie's return to
• 1:06:15
  today, as her national platform will help keep all eyes on the
• 1:06:19
  case, according to an FBI expert.
• 1:06:20
  I hope that's true, Quote. Every day that passes, the
• 1:06:24
  pressure builds. Keeping a secret like this is
• 1:06:26
  exhausting, and that gets harder with every morning that Savannah
• 1:06:30
  Guthrie sits behind that anchor desk, former FBI agent Jason
• 1:06:34
  Pack exclusively told Page 6, continuing the quote, Most
• 1:06:38
  criminals in cases like this count on the media moving on.
• 1:06:42
  They count on the family fading from public view.
• 1:06:44
  They count on people forgetting. This case is different.
• 1:06:47
  Savannah has a national platform and she shows up on it every
• 1:06:51
  single day. Every time a viewer sees her
• 1:06:54
  face, they think about her mother.
• 1:06:56
  Close quote Pack believes the more attention the case
• 1:06:59
  receives, the more pressure on the people responsible goes up.
• 1:07:04
  After reading this, that is why I decided to just go ahead with
• 1:07:08
  my diatribe today. Quote, add a reward of more than
• 1:07:11
  $1 million in the full weight of FBI resources and you have a
• 1:07:14
  situation where the walls are not just closing, but they are
• 1:07:17
  closing from every direction at once, he said.
• 1:07:21
  Pack went on to urge Nancy's neighbors to check their cameras
• 1:07:24
  and contact authorities with any information on her
• 1:07:26
  disappearance. Quote, at some point someone is
• 1:07:29
  going to have the courage to make that call.
• 1:07:31
  He said one phone call from someone who decides the reward
• 1:07:35
  money matters more than their silence is all it takes to bring
• 1:07:38
  law enforcement directly to their front door.
• 1:07:41
  And it goes on. And there's a link to the
• 1:07:44
  article in the description below.
• 1:07:46
  You can check that out. So that is why guys, I'm staying
• 1:07:49
  on the Nancy Guthrie case, will continue to stay on the Nancy
• 1:07:52
  Guthrie case until until there's resolution to this case.
• 1:07:57
  And I hope that you guys will join me in that quest as well.
• 1:08:02
  With that, let's move on to three questions, shall we?
• 1:08:06
  It's three questions with Gavin Fish, Okie Dokie.
• 1:08:15
  In this segment, guys, I answer three of your questions.
• 1:08:20
  I answer them in the order that I feel like I should answer, and
• 1:08:25
  two of the three that that I'm answering today came in like
• 1:08:28
  yesterday. So I just thought they were
• 1:08:31
  great questions. But I solemnly promise that I
• 1:08:33
  will do my best to answer every question that comes in.
• 1:08:36
  I will do so completely without dodging anything and will do it
• 1:08:42
  to the best of my ability. All you have to do is send them
• 1:08:45
  to three questions at gavinfish.com.
• 1:08:47
  It's spelled out THREE questions at gavinfish.com.
• 1:08:50
  You can send multiple questions at once or you can send them one
• 1:08:54
  at a time, whatever you want to do.
• 1:08:58
  Question #1 Tonight comes from Diane G Diane asks, Hey, Gavin,
• 1:09:06
  since you fly airplanes, how would you weigh a plane without
• 1:09:09
  scales? That is a terrific question.
• 1:09:12
  Let me tell you how it works. OK?
• 1:09:15
  Every plane has has things that you know about it because of its
• 1:09:22
  certification, including what it weighs, what its useful load is,
• 1:09:27
  what its payload is, and things like that.
• 1:09:31
  You know, because it is a constant weight, how much fuel
• 1:09:36
  weighs, you know how much fuel you have in the tanks because
• 1:09:41
  you measure those things. And you should know your own
• 1:09:46
  weight, your passenger weight, and anything that you're taking
• 1:09:50
  along all of those things. And you need to make sure that
• 1:09:53
  it stays under a threshold, which is published for every
• 1:09:56
  certified plane. And you know, I actually got up
• 1:10:02
  to a point where I could not take say like 3 of my kids in a
• 1:10:07
  plane at one time because I was too fat, right?
• 1:10:12
  So I didn't have scales, but I for the plane itself, but I knew
• 1:10:17
  the weight of the plane. I knew what it was capable of
• 1:10:20
  doing. I knew my how much fuel I was
• 1:10:22
  putting into the tanks. I knew what was leftover for
• 1:10:27
  passengers and luggage. That's how that works.
• 1:10:31
  Same thing happens on a commercial plane, by the way.
• 1:10:34
  They don't have scales on on the ground weighing the plane.
• 1:10:38
  What they do is they know what the plane weighs.
• 1:10:42
  They know well what really happens on a commercial flight
• 1:10:47
  is the the useful load for a plane is well beyond anything
• 1:10:52
  that you can pack into it. Not so much, not as much with
• 1:10:58
  cargo planes. They have to be way more careful
• 1:11:00
  that way, as I understand it. But yeah, that's how that works.
• 1:11:04
  And I guess layman's terms. Great question.
• 1:11:08
  And I do love to fly planes. OK, Mel.
• 1:11:12
  Mel sent in several questions and I chose 1 today.
• 1:11:19
  But we need to know, just for context, that Mel is chiming in
• 1:11:25
  from beautiful New Zealand. She asks, are you familiar with
• 1:11:31
  our beautiful culture? She's talking about her Maori
• 1:11:34
  culture. And have you had the privilege
• 1:11:37
  of watching an All Blacks game or a Haka Mel?
• 1:11:43
  I love this question. First of all, I am surface level
• 1:11:50
  familiar with the Maori culture. Not not deeply right, but you
• 1:11:58
  mentioned in your e-mail that you are married to a Tonga man
• 1:12:02
  from Tonga. My baby sister, we're not babies
• 1:12:08
  anymore. We're all old people.
• 1:12:10
  She is married to a man from Tonga and they have beautiful
• 1:12:13
  Tongan children, one of which is a is the team captain of AD 1
• 1:12:24
  rugby team who has some real talent and is on a very, very,
• 1:12:31
  very good team. And so I have gotten to know
• 1:12:36
  rugby through his rugby pursuits.
• 1:12:40
  Now my brother-in-law has been playing rugby since since long
• 1:12:43
  before I've known him. I just never went and watched
• 1:12:45
  him. And then when it comes to haka,
• 1:12:52
  my sister and brother in law's kids all played football in
• 1:12:56
  Northern California before, you know, before they grew up and
• 1:12:59
  graduated and stuff like that. And they would lead their teams
• 1:13:03
  in hakas before the game. It was beautiful how the teams
• 1:13:10
  embraced that beautiful heritage.
• 1:13:16
  It was awesome. I have never watched a complete
• 1:13:22
  All Blacks game, but I've seen so many hakas, so many clips and
• 1:13:28
  it I I only didn't watch the games because I didn't
• 1:13:31
  understand the game. It's just such, but sitting on
• 1:13:34
  the sidelines watching my nephew's team play and sitting
• 1:13:38
  next to my sister and my other nephews and my niece and them
• 1:13:42
  and my brother-in-law telling me what's going on.
• 1:13:45
  It's actually not that complicated of a game to
• 1:13:49
  understand as a as a spectator and is fun to watch.
• 1:13:53
  So, yeah. And I could talk about them all
• 1:13:57
  night long because I love them so much.
• 1:13:59
  They are, they are a terrific family that that embrace that
• 1:14:05
  their Tongan culture. It is beautiful.
• 1:14:09
  And my brother-in-law has stories, man, so great, so
• 1:14:15
  great. OK, was that question.
• 1:14:18
  That was question #2 question #3 this is probably a good question
• 1:14:23
  for you all to answer in the live chat.
• 1:14:25
  What is your favorite footwear? Are you a loafers, sneakers,
• 1:14:29
  sandals or flip flops kind of guy?
• 1:14:31
  Patty, I am neither a sandals nor a flip flops kind of guy.
• 1:14:36
  I think flip flops are my least favorite footwear for me
• 1:14:40
  personally to wear. I got ugly feet and I don't like
• 1:14:44
  the flap flap, flap flap and the feeling of having to like keep
• 1:14:48
  shoes on on my feet. Why do I have to have effort to
• 1:14:52
  keep shoes on my feet? So dumb.
• 1:14:55
  So no, I don't like flip flops. I don't like sandals just
• 1:14:58
  because I like humanity. I don't want to expose them to
• 1:15:01
  my disgusting feet. I mostly wear sneakers now.
• 1:15:06
  When it comes to formal footwear, I'm a fan of the
• 1:15:09
  humble Oxford. I just, I just love the Oxford.
• 1:15:13
  I've got a couple pairs of plain toe black oxfords.
• 1:15:18
  I've got a cap toe pair of brown oxfords.
• 1:15:21
  I've got a black pair of wingtip brogued oxfords.
• 1:15:26
  I love those. For sneakers, I always stick
• 1:15:30
  with the same brand. I always keep a couple pair.
• 1:15:32
  I'm an ASICS guy. I've never once owned a pair of
• 1:15:36
  loafers, but I am kind of starting to get drawn to the
• 1:15:41
  idea of maybe having a classic pair of horse bit loafers.
• 1:15:46
  And my son tells me that if I am to add a pair or two of loafers,
• 1:15:53
  like a penny loafer, horse bit loafer, something like that to
• 1:15:57
  my shoe collection, then my metamorphosis into my father
• 1:16:02
  will be complete. My dad's all about the loafer.
• 1:16:04
  He is all about the loafer. We've been having that
• 1:16:08
  conversation in our home so thanks for bringing that U.
• 1:16:11
  I'd love to hear your thoughts. Is this controversial?
• 1:16:15
  Are my thoughts on the flip flop and the sandal a controversial
• 1:16:20
  take? We'll take your calls.
• 1:16:23
  No, we won't take your calls, but we will take your comments.
• 1:16:25
  Definitely leave those. That would be fun for me to
• 1:16:29
  read. Guys.
• 1:16:30
  Those are your three questions. Remember to send your questions
• 1:16:32
  to three questions at gavinfish.com.
• 1:16:35
  And now, while you are telling me your thoughts on my answers
• 1:16:39
  to three questions and your answers to the same questions,
• 1:16:43
  let's get into some headlines. True crime headlines.
• 1:16:53
  Okie Dokie friends Oh Mine first headline is just a reminder that
• 1:17:00
  Amy Hilliard is still missing. OK, there's a link down in the
• 1:17:03
  description below to a website called Bring Amy Home that that
• 1:17:09
  the family and friends are using to update us.
• 1:17:12
  But as of right before we started the show, Amy Hilliard
• 1:17:16
  is still missing. She is considered at risk due to
• 1:17:20
  a medical condition. We don't know what that medical
• 1:17:23
  condition is, but she was last seen on March 25th near her home
• 1:17:28
  on the 500 block of Radnor Rd. in Oakland.
• 1:17:31
  She was wearing a white short sleeved shirt, light jeans,
• 1:17:35
  white sneakers with black stripes.
• 1:17:37
  She is 52 years old. She is five foot 4 inches tall,
• 1:17:40
  120 lbs, blonde hair, Hazel eyes, and if you have seen her,
• 1:17:47
  please call Oakland PD at 510-238-3641 or call
• 1:17:54
  510-591-4857. Let's bring Amy home.
• 1:18:01
  OK, Next headline is from the Ivy Times.
• 1:18:10
  I, I found this to be an interesting article.
• 1:18:13
  There's no real update on the case, but I think it's an
• 1:18:17
  interesting article from a couple days ago written by Nobel
• 1:18:21
  Barines. At least I think that's how you
• 1:18:24
  pronounce the name. How David's cooperative facade
• 1:18:27
  crumbled under the weight of a California grand jury.
• 1:18:32
  And I'm just going to I'm not going to read the whole thing
• 1:18:34
  but a little bit. The investigation into the death
• 1:18:37
  of Celeste Rivas Hernandez. Let me find there we are.
• 1:18:45
  Let's find picture of Celeste has increasingly centered on the
• 1:18:49
  work of a California grand jury as prosecutors pursue a complex
• 1:18:53
  and highly secretive legal strategy in the case involving
• 1:18:57
  musician David. What began as a missing persons
• 1:19:02
  report has evolved into a closely watched criminal probe
• 1:19:08
  now unfolding largely out of sight, but with potential career
• 1:19:12
  ending and life altering consequences for those involved.
• 1:19:16
  Authorities convened a Los Angeles County grand jury in
• 1:19:19
  late 2025, marking a significant turning point in the probe.
• 1:19:24
  Unlike a traditional public court process, the grand jury
• 1:19:27
  operates behind closed doors, allowing prosecutors to present
• 1:19:31
  evidence, question witnesses and determine whether there's enough
• 1:19:35
  probable cause to file criminal charges.
• 1:19:38
  Then of course, it gives a, you know, case drew national
• 1:19:42
  attention because of summarizes the case from the outset,
• 1:19:46
  prosecutors opted to use a grand jury rather than immediately
• 1:19:49
  filing charges, a move often reserved for complex or high
• 1:19:53
  profile cases. Legal experts say this approach
• 1:19:55
  allows investigators to gather testimony discreetly while
• 1:19:59
  protecting sensitive evidence. In this case, the proceedings
• 1:20:03
  have been described as unusually secretive.
• 1:20:05
  I don't know if that's fair. With authorities keeping the
• 1:20:08
  case close to the vest as they build their argument.
• 1:20:13
  Court filings later revealed that David, whose legal name is
• 1:20:15
  David Anthony Burke, had been formally identified as a target
• 1:20:18
  of the grand jury investigation. This designation indicates the
• 1:20:22
  prosecutors believe there is substantial evidence linking him
• 1:20:25
  to potential criminal activity, though it does not equate to a
• 1:20:28
  charge. So yeah, then it goes into who
• 1:20:33
  has, who has been witnessed, who have been witnesses to the grand
• 1:20:38
  jury, including friends of his. Yeah.
• 1:20:45
  So there's a link to the rest of this, but I'm hoping that Oh
• 1:20:52
  yeah, does it really get into his crumbling?
• 1:20:58
  It doesn't. The article really doesn't.
• 1:21:01
  But yeah, his facade of being cooperative crumbled right from
• 1:21:05
  the beginning, I think. All right, from the Daily Mail,
• 1:21:09
  this about Rex Heuermann. And this is a long article.
• 1:21:14
  I'm, I just highlighted a bit of it because we talked about his
• 1:21:18
  guilty plea yesterday. This is written by Rachel Sharp,
• 1:21:21
  Ruth Mushinsky, and the dailymail.co.uk headline reads
• 1:21:26
  every chilling moment inside the Gilgo Beach serial killer
• 1:21:29
  hearing with Justice finally served, our front row account of
• 1:21:32
  his cold courtroom confession, the family's raw emotion in the
• 1:21:36
  world, and the word that stunned the room.
• 1:21:38
  I just want to Scroll down and again, there's a link in the
• 1:21:41
  description below. Let me read this.
• 1:21:45
  I'm going to start above where I highlighted at one point.
• 1:21:48
  The corners of his mouth curled up in what appeared to be a
• 1:21:51
  faint flicker of a smirk as he uttered the words Guilty.
• 1:21:55
  Even after working on countless shocking criminal cases, nothing
• 1:21:58
  could prepare us for how disturbing that expression felt.
• 1:22:02
  Then came a moment that sent chills, chills through the room
• 1:22:04
  as we learned for the very first time how each of the women died.
• 1:22:08
  1 by 1. Huberman answered in a calm,
• 1:22:10
  matter of fact tone. Strangulation, strangulation,
• 1:22:14
  strangulation, strangulation, strangulation, strangulation,
• 1:22:16
  strangulation, strangulation. Ringing heavy in the room, he
• 1:22:21
  reduced the lives of these young women, mothers, sisters,
• 1:22:24
  daughters to 1. Callous word.
• 1:22:27
  Inside the courtroom, what struck us was there was no
• 1:22:30
  glimmer of remorse, the answers uttered with no more emotion
• 1:22:33
  than if he was ordering a coffee.
• 1:22:36
  It was sickening to see, though perhaps we shouldn't have been
• 1:22:39
  surprised, the cutting words later used by law enforcement
• 1:22:42
  members to describe him. Monster, soulless, callous and
• 1:22:46
  sadistic. Sadistic didn't seem powerful
• 1:22:49
  enough. All around the room, the
• 1:22:51
  victim's loved ones silently sobbed, dabbed tissues to their
• 1:22:54
  eyes and clutched each other for comfort, while others, so
• 1:22:58
  overcome with pain and grief, were unable to even look at the
• 1:23:01
  man and murderer in front of them.
• 1:23:04
  At the very back of the courtroom, humans family looked
• 1:23:07
  destroyed. And I'm not going to get into
• 1:23:10
  the family there. But an interesting article
• 1:23:13
  indeed. I invite you to read that now,
• 1:23:16
  guys, we're trying this on for a second time.
• 1:23:19
  Let's do some positive news, OK? It has nothing to do with crime.
• 1:23:23
  We've been, we've been kind of talking about heavy, weighty,
• 1:23:28
  ponderous stuff for the last almost hour and a half.
• 1:23:33
  How about some good news? How about some really, really
• 1:23:35
  good news? This from a website called
• 1:23:38
  Positive News Bright Idea shines hope on struggling pollinators.
• 1:23:45
  Written by Robin Evely, Red light therapy can help bee
• 1:23:51
  colonies to live longer and pollinate more effectively,
• 1:23:54
  studies claim. Hmm, tell me more because I've
• 1:23:59
  kind of, I've kind of thought that red light therapy is kind
• 1:24:02
  of a fad, but OK. Red light therapy has long been
• 1:24:06
  used by humans to improve skin health, slow signs of aging, and
• 1:24:10
  soothe sore muscles. Now the treatment is giving a
• 1:24:12
  glow up to one of our most vital pollinators, the bees.
• 1:24:19
  It works by stimulating the mitochondria, the powerhouses of
• 1:24:22
  living cells, boosting efficiency and catalyzing tissue
• 1:24:25
  regeneration. The brains behind Bee Futures,
• 1:24:29
  an Agrotech outfit based in France and Norway, claims
• 1:24:33
  studies show bees enjoy the same benefits when exposed to red and
• 1:24:37
  near infrared light. Colonies given the red light
• 1:24:41
  treatment were better able to cope with stressors like heat,
• 1:24:45
  extreme weather and pesticides than those without, living
• 1:24:48
  longer and pollinating more effectively, the company said.
• 1:24:52
  The company has since launched Onebi Light, a world first in
• 1:24:57
  hive therapy light for bees, developed in partnership with
• 1:25:00
  the University College London. OK man, so it's a sales pitch.
• 1:25:04
  Dang it, oh Dang it, I got duped, I got duped, maybe I
• 1:25:10
  didn't, maybe it's true, blah blah blah blah blah.
• 1:25:14
  Trials by UCL showed the colonies exposed to pesticides
• 1:25:17
  or transport stress got back to being busy bees within days when
• 1:25:21
  supported by the red light gadget.
• 1:25:24
  OK, OK, well, you know, I, I do feel a little duped there, but
• 1:25:30
  but maybe it's true, could be true.
• 1:25:33
  Maybe I need to stop being so skeptical or cynical and just be
• 1:25:36
  happy that our world's pollinators might be responding
• 1:25:41
  to something awesome. Now, before we go, I would like
• 1:25:45
  to know what you guys are saying over in the live chat.
• 1:25:52
  Kay Bling says thank you, Gavin, you are the real deal.
• 1:25:57
  Thank you very much. That makes me feel good.
• 1:25:59
  Sherry Nevada. Gavin, are you a pilot?
• 1:26:01
  That is awesome. Yes.
• 1:26:02
  And I, I forget sometimes that I've got new viewers.
• 1:26:05
  Yeah, I I am a private pilot. I'm not a commercial pilot.
• 1:26:10
  I am a private pilot. And I've been flying for about
• 1:26:13
  26 years now, I think. I think I was first certificated
• 1:26:17
  in 2000. It may have been 2001, though.
• 1:26:22
  I think it's 2000, so 2526 years.
• 1:26:28
  Christine Gavin, is there anything you can't do?
• 1:26:32
  I don't want you to be fooled by my superficial knowledge of a,
• 1:26:36
  of a wide area or, you know, wide amount of topics.
• 1:26:44
  OK, There are a few things that I'm good at.
• 1:26:48
  OK, a few things that I'm very good at.
• 1:26:51
  And then many, many things that interest me that I have very
• 1:26:55
  superficial knowledge of and and it it puts out this impression
• 1:27:03
  that I'm just like this overachieving guy that can do
• 1:27:05
  anything. And I nothing could be further
• 1:27:08
  from the truth. I'm a normal person who just has
• 1:27:11
  lots of different interests and likes to read and gets to know
• 1:27:15
  different things. Let's see.
• 1:27:18
  Thank you. But thank you, that did help my
• 1:27:21
  ego. MRG is GF for girlfriend?
• 1:27:24
  No, it is neither for girlfriend nor gluten free.
• 1:27:29
  It is for Gavin Fish. That's funny.
• 1:27:34
  Sherry says. I love the three questions.
• 1:27:36
  You know what my my thing gets gets stuck sometimes my live
• 1:27:43
  chat overlay gets stuck sometimes and I can't get it to
• 1:27:49
  change. But Sherry does like the the
• 1:27:53
  three questions and now now it is completely not working at
• 1:27:59
  all. Autumn, I saw that you have a
• 1:28:03
  little is it an anniversary for being a member?
• 1:28:07
  But now I can't see it because because my system went Le Pew.
• 1:28:14
  But thank you for your continued awesomeness.
• 1:28:18
  Autumn is my lead moderator guys.
• 1:28:22
  And if I could just encourage you please to head over to my
• 1:28:27
  website, gavinfish.com. I love you guys.
• 1:28:31
  At State of the End, go to gavinfish.com, click on the
• 1:28:33
  Support me tab and when it finally loads, yes, I do need to
• 1:28:37
  address the load speed of my website when it finally loads.
• 1:28:43
  Maybe my problem is that I'm having Internet connectivity
• 1:28:45
  issues. Maybe that is it.
• 1:28:49
  Please, hopefully, let's see if this works.
• 1:28:57
  No, it doesn't. Anyway, there is a button on the
• 1:29:03
  website where you can buy Autumn a coffee, and I'm sure the
• 1:29:08
  autumn has shared it in the live chat as well.
• 1:29:12
  And then if you click on this little fishy icon, that will
• 1:29:14
  take you over to the fish tank where we hang out on Facebook.
• 1:29:17
  You're always, always, always invited though.
• 1:29:19
  Never any pressure. If it's your thing, come join us
• 1:29:24
  in the tank on Facebook there. There's a link in the
• 1:29:27
  description too. All right, thank you all for
• 1:29:31
  your kind. Support your super chats today.
• 1:29:34
  Thank you to my patrons, to my members, thank you to those who
• 1:29:38
  are listening on Spotify. That helps the channel a whole
• 1:29:41
  bunch and thank you for watching for liking, for commenting and
• 1:29:47
  sharing. You guys are the best.
• 1:29:49
  I will be back tomorrow, 6:00 PM Eastern Time right here in this
• 1:29:53
  very same place to talk live on YouTube, then uploading it to
• 1:29:58
  Spotify afterwards and until then, well, I hope to see you
• 1:30:02
  there and until then, I bid you. I do thank you very much for
• 1:30:06
  being here catch you on the next one.
• 1:30:08
  Bye bye. Thank you very much for watching
• 1:30:11
  this video. If you liked what you saw,
• 1:30:13
  please consider subscribing. And if you have any questions or
• 1:30:17
  comments, please leave them below.