Latest / Badass Confidence Coach | Your Personal Trainer for Your Mind / 309. A Weekend Off Won’t Fix Your Burnout, So What Will?

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309. A Weekend Off Won’t Fix Your Burnout, So What Will? · Badass Confidence Coach | Your Personal Trainer for Your Mind

0:00
SPEAKER_03: Welcome if you're here as a first-time listener or watcher.
0:10
SPEAKER_03: So today we are continuing in our series on relationships.
0:15
SPEAKER_03: And actually, this is going to be more about the relationship you have with yourself.
0:19
SPEAKER_03: And this is a very big topic, and it's burnout.
0:23
SPEAKER_03: So we're talking about burnout.
0:25
SPEAKER_03: For some of you, a lot of you it's worth work.
0:27
SPEAKER_03: Some of you are burnt out on maybe some people, things in your personal life.
0:33
SPEAKER_03: And maybe you're just burnt out on life right now.
0:35
SPEAKER_03: So we're going to get into it, but we're really going to talk more about work today.
0:39
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
0:39
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
0:40
SPEAKER_03: I did a post on social media last week about capability versus capacity.
0:47
SPEAKER_03: And I was walking the dogs last night and ran into one of our neighbors, very sweet, kind neighbor, who, you know, they listen to the podcast, which is such it's such an honor.
1:00
SPEAKER_03: And I am always so thankful when people that just it's unexpected.
1:04
SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, we listen to your podcast.
1:05
SPEAKER_03: We like your podcast.
1:07
SPEAKER_03: You know, or people who see something that I post on Instagram or TikTok or Facebook will make a comment to me.
1:12
SPEAKER_03: So I always appreciate that.
1:14
SPEAKER_03: So thank you.
1:14
SPEAKER_03: Because sometimes I wonder, like, why am I doing this?
1:17
SPEAKER_03: Does anybody even care?
1:18
SPEAKER_03: Is anybody even listening?
1:19
SPEAKER_00: You know, because you like talking to me.
1:21
SPEAKER_03: Not not for the podcast, but some sometimes for social media, I wonder why I'm doing it.
1:24
SPEAKER_03: Because I'm never not one of those influencing kind of people.
1:28
SPEAKER_03: Don't really care to be, but you know, my social media social media manager always says you got to do it for credibility.
1:34
SPEAKER_03: And I do it, but it takes some time to do it.
1:37
SPEAKER_03: And you got, I'm telling you, it really teaches you to get very good at public speaking.
1:43
SPEAKER_03: It does help that because you learn how to rememorize and and say things, right?
1:48
SPEAKER_03: But he and his wife were watching a post that I did last week on one of the social media platforms about the same thing about capability and capacity, which is leading into today's episode about burnout.
2:01
SPEAKER_03: And he said, Thank you so much for that.
2:03
SPEAKER_03: You took you hit the nail on the head.
2:05
SPEAKER_03: So he he's like, My wife watched it and said, You got to watch what Anna just said about this.
2:10
SPEAKER_03: And he and he's like, It was great.
2:11
SPEAKER_03: He's like, We actually had a really good conversation about work after watching your post.
2:16
SPEAKER_03: So thank you, thank you.
2:17
SPEAKER_03: And you know who you are.
2:18
SPEAKER_03: I always appreciate those who tell me that they listen and they watch, and that makes me feel like, okay, great.
2:23
SPEAKER_03: If it's of some value to someone, it's helping somebody, or if it's if it's helping, like, you know, spurn on a conversation between you and your spouse.
2:32
SPEAKER_03: Great.
2:33
SPEAKER_03: Wonderful.
2:33
SPEAKER_03: My job is done.
2:34
SPEAKER_01: There you go.
2:35
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
2:35
SPEAKER_03: Okay, so burnout.
2:37
SPEAKER_03: I mean, this is something that I think so, so, so, so, so many of us are dealing with.
2:41
SPEAKER_03: And I don't even know if we know to call a burnout.
2:44
SPEAKER_03: We just are living in it, we're living with it, and we don't know how to get out of it.
2:49
SPEAKER_03: And we need this job, so we just keep on keeping on.
2:54
SPEAKER_03: And when I get people who come to me in my practice, it's I am usually the first one to say, Oh, we're looking at some burnout here.
3:02
SPEAKER_03: And we're gonna get into what that looks like.
3:04
SPEAKER_03: What are some of the air quote symptoms of burnout?
3:08
SPEAKER_03: All right.
3:09
SPEAKER_03: So let's say, you know, and and I think a lot of people think that, you know, oh, I'm feeling burned out, I just need a weekend off.
3:16
SPEAKER_03: And for some of you, yeah, you just need a weekend off.
3:20
SPEAKER_03: But if it and if you go back to work on Monday and you feel rejuvenated, you're you're probably good.
3:26
SPEAKER_03: We're not talking about burnout for you.
3:28
SPEAKER_03: But if you find that you get the Sunday scaries and you really have anxiety, for most people it's Sunday evening.
3:34
SPEAKER_03: I know people get it like starting Sunday when they wake up, they got the Sunday scaries.
3:38
SPEAKER_03: You got to pay attention to that.
3:40
SPEAKER_03: You know, sometimes it is burnout, sometimes it can be something else.
3:43
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they can just be dealing with an anxiety disorder that, you know, so that's why I think it's so important to see somebody who really can suss out the differences here, who can look at make really sort of make a differential diagnosis as to, and that's a licensed mental health person.
4:01
SPEAKER_03: I do it with my coaching clients, and I'm a licensed mental health person, so I can suss out what the differences is.
4:07
SPEAKER_03: I know the the questions to ask.
4:09
SPEAKER_03: If you've ever been with somebody, or if you're you got somebody through your business, your corporation that's coaching people, you know, and they're not a mental health person, most of the really good ones are gonna refer you on and say, This is beyond what I'm what I'm able to do.
4:22
SPEAKER_03: You gotta you go see, go to EAP, see, go to the EAP person and get yourself with a therapist because there might be something else going on here.
4:30
SPEAKER_03: Because you have to be careful when you're looking at burnout that the person's not also dealing with an anxiety piece and a mood disorder, a depression piece.
4:39
SPEAKER_03: And I can suss that out.
4:42
SPEAKER_03: Okay, so let's say let's go back to it's Sunday night.
4:46
SPEAKER_03: The weekend's, you know, the weekend's almost over, right?
4:49
SPEAKER_03: You had a really good weekend, you saw friends, maybe you saw some family, you had you just had a really fun weekend, or maybe you had a real chill weekend, which you needed.
4:58
SPEAKER_03: Maybe you were able to put your phone away and side of sort of be in real life, IRL, as the kids say, and really enjoy your your Friday night, your Saturday, your Sunday, Sunday.
5:10
SPEAKER_03: But now it's like seven o'clock on a on a Sunday night, and here comes that dread.
5:15
SPEAKER_03: Here comes that feeling.
5:17
SPEAKER_03: Like you enjoy your weekends, but you are dreading what you're returning to on Monday morning.
5:23
SPEAKER_03: That's something that you got to pay attention to.
5:25
SPEAKER_03: So the question is is it it's not only did I rest, did I get some relaxation, did I have some time, or I completely got away from work and didn't and didn't think about work.
5:36
SPEAKER_03: It's also what am I going back to?
5:39
SPEAKER_03: What am I going back to tomorrow morning?
5:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
5:41
SPEAKER_03: You know, I mean, I think that you can you can love your job, you can love your work, but you can also need the conditions of your job to change.
5:52
SPEAKER_03: So I mean, I think it's really, really important.
5:54
SPEAKER_03: I've I am working with someone actually right now who's been dealing with this who really loves their work and loves what they're doing, but they just don't stop with a pylon and this person is burnt out.
6:08
SPEAKER_03: And we're gonna get into what the symptoms are, like I said, burnt out.
6:12
SPEAKER_03: I could see it.
6:13
SPEAKER_03: I saw it, I saw it a year ago.
6:15
SPEAKER_03: And we're working on getting this person out and into something different.
6:19
SPEAKER_03: It's not changing.
6:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
6:21
SPEAKER_03: After, and this is after doing a lot of the things we've talked about that I've coached her on about letting them know there's some different reasons why the person is still there, which I can't and won't get into on the podcast because it's a case-by-case basis, but but that is the goal for that person is to get them out because it's not changing.
6:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
6:39
SPEAKER_03: So I want to ask you, Tim, when it comes to when you've coached athletes, triathletes, when you how have you known when one of your athletes has needed recovery?
6:51
SPEAKER_03: How have you known?
6:51
SPEAKER_03: Like, do you start to look at like do you start to question your own training plan?
6:56
SPEAKER_03: Or have you ever seen me go into burnout as an athlete over all these years?
7:01
SPEAKER_03: Because like you coached me once, but I've been coached by other people throughout the 20 years that I was competitive.
7:06
SPEAKER_03: When did you start to know to question my training plan or be like, you need something different, or for your own athletes?
7:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
7:13
SPEAKER_00: So we're talking athletes now, not workers.
7:15
SPEAKER_03: Let's let's move into because it's very similar though.
7:18
SPEAKER_03: It can't be very similar.
7:19
SPEAKER_03: Workers and workplaces.
7:21
SPEAKER_00: I think the influencers are way different.
7:22
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, okay.
7:24
SPEAKER_00: I would say consistently it's lack of recovery time.
7:29
SPEAKER_00: Like almost every time that's what it is, right?
7:31
SPEAKER_00: The training program that I've seen that has failed people is built around more is better, right?
7:40
SPEAKER_00: Work faster, work harder, work longer, all those things.
7:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
7:44
SPEAKER_00: And the word recovery most of the time doesn't even exist in there.
7:48
SPEAKER_00: And that'll be the first question I'll ask somebody.
7:50
SPEAKER_00: I said, well, what what's your just help me understand?
7:52
SPEAKER_00: Like, what what's your day or days off?
7:55
SPEAKER_00: And then they look at me like I'm asking some foreign question.
7:58
SPEAKER_03: I think that's changed though.
7:59
SPEAKER_03: Most athletes have a day off.
8:01
SPEAKER_03: Most athletes.
8:02
SPEAKER_00: I think we'd like to believe that it's changed, and it's not.
8:05
SPEAKER_00: Like it's just not.
8:06
SPEAKER_00: I I think that people still like push, push, push, push, push, push.
8:10
SPEAKER_00: They they they go with air quotes a recovery day, it's like, well, it's just a lighter day.
8:15
SPEAKER_00: Or it's like, well, that'll just be more stupid.
8:17
SPEAKER_03: Active recovery day.
8:18
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
8:18
SPEAKER_03: Which really is not an active recovery day.
8:20
SPEAKER_00: It's not a recovery day at all.
8:21
SPEAKER_00: Or it's like they'll do yoga that day, or they'll do something.
8:25
SPEAKER_00: It's like it'll be something because they can't not.
8:28
SPEAKER_00: They can't not.
8:29
SPEAKER_00: So it's like your your body needs a break, but so does your brain, right?
8:33
SPEAKER_00: You need to stop thinking for a second as an athlete and and let yourself just completely go somewhere else, and that's constantly the thing that comes back around.
8:44
SPEAKER_03: Well, triathletes tend to be obsessive, compulsive individuals.
8:48
SPEAKER_03: We tend to be very compulsive and can't the idea of not working out a day wigs us out a little bit.
8:55
SPEAKER_03: And so I I can see what you're saying.
8:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
8:57
SPEAKER_00: And it's not even just triathletes.
8:59
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's I've talked to people that they they don't have any aspirations to do a triathlon, but they lift all the time, they run all the time.
9:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the worker outers, they bike all the time, like they did there's always something on the schedule, and they never give their body a chance to recover.
9:15
SPEAKER_00: And because of that, they're the ones that like come into a workout session, whether it's a group session or a private session.
9:22
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I've got this or that.
9:23
SPEAKER_00: They're injured, right?
9:24
SPEAKER_00: Of course you do, because you haven't taken a day off in like six years.
9:28
SPEAKER_00: Like, what's up with that?
9:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, yeah.
9:31
SPEAKER_03: You know, did you ever question my training plan?
9:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, a thousand percent.
9:36
SPEAKER_00: You know that.
9:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:37
SPEAKER_00: Well, you were you were being asked, really?
9:41
SPEAKER_00: You were being asked to to be a power lifter in a world of triathlon, right?
9:46
SPEAKER_00: Like the things that you were being asked by your trainer trainer, yeah.
9:50
SPEAKER_00: Well, like it was such the it was like the biggest miss I've ever seen.
9:54
SPEAKER_00: Like you're trying to be faster and and all the things this way, and you're and your trainer was saying, now let's be a power lifter this way.
10:00
SPEAKER_00: And it just was like nothing lined up.
10:03
SPEAKER_03: I know, and I'm a little embarrassed about that.
10:05
SPEAKER_03: Like, I I think back to that, and that was in the later years of being a triathlete.
10:10
SPEAKER_03: I had just gone to worlds, I had just come home from the world championship.
10:14
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I was heavy into triathlon and competing and had been doing well, and then I started working with this guy, and he's a very good personal trainer, he's a very good strength, strength coach, and but he really was dissing, he wanted to see me make gains and strength, but he started really slowly over time dissing and putting down what I was doing as a triathlete and really and wanted me to always lift first.
10:43
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, I know, I'm I'm embarrassed.
10:46
SPEAKER_03: I was just thinking about that.
10:47
SPEAKER_03: I mean, why did I listen to him?
10:49
SPEAKER_03: I got I don't know why I listened to him.
10:51
SPEAKER_03: I think it was some weird, like, I don't know, like, was I in some weird, like, I don't know, like Jedi mind trick.
10:57
SPEAKER_03: Did he like Jedi mind trick me?
10:59
SPEAKER_03: I'm not joking.
11:00
SPEAKER_03: I'm not joking.
11:01
SPEAKER_03: Like, did he manipulate me?
11:03
SPEAKER_03: And did I succumb to something that that I didn't realize I was in?
11:08
SPEAKER_03: Because I remember drinking a protein shake at nine o'clock at night, and you were like, What are you doing?
11:13
SPEAKER_03: And I didn't want to be drinking it.
11:15
SPEAKER_03: And I remember standing there, like mixing it up in the kitchen with the shaker ball, like, and he's like, What you, he, you was like, What are you doing?
11:24
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I have to drink this, I need a certain amount of protein.
11:26
SPEAKER_03: You're like, You're going to bed.
11:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
11:28
SPEAKER_03: And I'd go to bed like full, like, ugh, you know, and and you would, you're so you, yeah, you were really critical of him.
11:36
SPEAKER_03: And and it didn't work.
11:38
SPEAKER_03: And he then I realized I needed to stop working with him when my triathlon coach was like, Who are you working with?
11:43
SPEAKER_03: What are you doing?
11:44
SPEAKER_03: What is your goal here?
11:45
SPEAKER_03: Is it to be better as a triathlete or to be a power lifter?
11:49
SPEAKER_03: You know, she told me you need to fire him, and I didn't.
11:53
SPEAKER_03: I don't know, because I I was like, no, but he's helping me with gains, and I'm in perimenopause and in our menopause, I don't know what it was at the time, and I'm getting stronger with him.
12:03
SPEAKER_03: And I could see that I was getting stronger, but I was also bulking up right because he had me on these calories and I was getting bigger.
12:09
SPEAKER_00: Certainly not getting stronger to run faster.
12:12
SPEAKER_00: It was getting stronger to run slower.
12:15
SPEAKER_00: I mean, so you questioned logical.
12:17
SPEAKER_03: You questioned the training plan.
12:18
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but I but have you ever tried questioned the training plan of me just being in triathlon?
12:22
SPEAKER_03: That was different because I was a personal trainer who came in and kind of that was different.
12:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
12:28
SPEAKER_00: Well, I don't think you're a unique person in this conversation.
12:32
SPEAKER_00: I think that I've seen it before where like, and I think just in general, there's so much information out there for all of us.
12:38
SPEAKER_00: Yes, we get caught in the trap of taking a little bit of this and a little bit of this, and all of a sudden, like, we're the we are the the conductor in our in our scenario, right?
12:52
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, well, I'm gonna listen to a little bit of this in terms of my nutrition plan, and then I'm gonna listen to a little bit of this with my strength plan, and then oh yeah, by the way, I actually do have a triathlon coach who's trying to like be the one that is the conductor in this whole conversation.
13:07
SPEAKER_00: And then, oh yeah, I've got this swim coach who does this or that for me, right?
13:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's like we we get so it's like shiny ball, like you don't you're not really sure where to look.
13:16
SPEAKER_03: It's our tangent deficit of all of us, yeah.
13:18
SPEAKER_03: Even if you don't have a diagnosis of that, I think we all can get caught up.
13:21
SPEAKER_03: It's like we're all this way, I think with social media, with watching reels, and with watching TikTok, and maybe you're in a Facebook group and you start reading what everybody else is doing, and what should and maybe I should be doing that, but then you, you know, and maybe you work, we have worked with a nutritionist or a dietitian before, and you have had a personal trainer, and and that is really, really good point.
13:46
SPEAKER_03: I think it's time.
13:47
SPEAKER_03: I see it with people with coaching.
13:49
SPEAKER_03: Like a lot of people get air quote, like coaching sound bites on TikTok, or they'll get they'll follow some, you know, they'll read like a book, a coaching book.
13:58
SPEAKER_03: I see it a lot with listening to podcasts and watching social media, and they think that that's it, but they find out.
14:03
SPEAKER_03: What happens is almost everybody realizes six months a year, years later, like to your point, Tim, it's a great one.
14:09
SPEAKER_03: I take a little of this, a little of that, a little of this.
14:12
SPEAKER_03: No, no, no, that's not gonna work for you.
14:13
SPEAKER_03: Sometimes you just have to hunker down and and work with one person and trust that one person.
14:20
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, do your research, vet your people, trust that one person.
14:24
SPEAKER_03: You know, like I have dietitians I work with that I refer my people to.
14:28
SPEAKER_03: I have, well, I'm a therapist and I'm a coach, but if I thought, if I think, well, I just did this, like I racked my brain trying to help somebody find a neurologist and find an ENT for themselves because they needed, they needed something special, find a new psychiatrist.
14:45
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I'm racking my brain, doing my research, spending time, you know, not in clinical hours with that person, in my admin times.
14:52
SPEAKER_03: But this is the work that goes into providing good care to people.
14:55
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, people I trust so that they can get collaborative work done for them, that they're the they're the client, but I want them, they need a team around them.
15:05
SPEAKER_03: I refer to dietitians all the time, you know, as sports dietitians, regular dietitians, dietitians who know eating disorders, because that's a subspecialty, dietitians who who are sports performance people, and there's sports performance dietitians in the different sports.
15:20
unknown: Right.
15:20
SPEAKER_03: That's what I spend my time doing, and that's what I think a lot of us try to, you know, mix it up a little bit ourselves, but we don't really know what we're doing.
15:27
SPEAKER_03: And hey, I've done this myself, everybody.
15:30
SPEAKER_03: I have done this and I've made those mistakes.
15:32
SPEAKER_03: So I try to come in and help people say you don't make the mistakes that I made 10 years ago, 15 years ago, because I'm telling you, it's gonna, it's it's maddening.
15:40
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's maddening and you're and you're gonna get mad because you're not gonna have the results that you want.
15:44
SPEAKER_00: For sure.
15:45
SPEAKER_03: Or people who are like, you know, because what happens is the burnout, you know, you can just get burnt out from all of that work that you're putting into it.
15:53
SPEAKER_03: You just like, I'm exhausted.
15:54
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, somebody just tell me what to do.
15:56
SPEAKER_03: Somebody just tell me what to do.
15:57
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
15:58
SPEAKER_00: And you kind of know it also by the questions that people ask.
16:03
SPEAKER_00: Like, I'll have swimmers that'll like they also are training for triflon, so they've got a whole nother training agenda outside of a once-a-week swim group that they come to.
16:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and the questions will be very broad brushed in in in a sense of like, well, what would you say?
16:20
SPEAKER_00: Should I run three times this week and then bike four, or should I do this or that?
16:26
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, I don't think that's a fair question to answer.
16:30
SPEAKER_00: That you can't answer that for that.
16:31
SPEAKER_00: And that's why I I don't add and I don't answer it.
16:34
SPEAKER_03: I uh they need to hire you as a travel as a coach.
16:37
SPEAKER_00: I followed up with more questions because if I try and answer that, I'm no better than somebody on YouTube that just shoots at the wall with the hopes that like somebody listens to them.
16:47
SPEAKER_00: Right.
16:48
SPEAKER_00: And you got to remember when you're listening to that stuff, that person on YouTube or wherever it is you're going to get this information, they're not talking to you, they don't know you at all.
16:56
unknown: Right?
16:57
SPEAKER_03: Everybody remember that.
16:58
SPEAKER_03: I think we all need to remember that.
16:59
SPEAKER_03: Remember when you're watching these people on YouTube and TikTok and right, even if you go into someone's live, you have to remember they don't know you.
17:09
SPEAKER_03: I had a great example of it this week where I'm actually considering looking for somebody to help me.
17:15
SPEAKER_03: I'm thinking, I'm not sure that I'm gonna do it.
17:17
SPEAKER_03: And I I think my have my answer, but I was good looking for a new strength and conditioning coach.
17:22
SPEAKER_03: And there was somebody that I've been following on TikTok, and she had a live, and I've and she's got a link to her website, and she's a little bona fide, legitimate strength trainer and also has nutrition background.
17:32
SPEAKER_03: I thought, okay, maybe she can help me.
17:33
SPEAKER_03: And it's for women like past 40, women in the 40s or 50s or something.
17:37
SPEAKER_03: And I went into her live and I said something about like, and I wanted to know.
17:43
SPEAKER_03: I said, This is what my BMR is, and she was like, No, is it my BMR or my RMR?
17:48
SPEAKER_03: Because I have both.
17:49
SPEAKER_03: Oh, my BMR.
17:50
SPEAKER_03: And she goes, that's not, and she said to me, Oh, hey, Anna, in the live.
17:53
SPEAKER_03: She goes, and she goes, she's reading it.
17:54
SPEAKER_03: You know, lives go down below.
17:56
SPEAKER_03: You, you, you type in and she's in front of the camera reading the comments that are coming up, and I told her what it was.
18:02
SPEAKER_03: She goes, That's not true.
18:03
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, Yes, it is.
18:04
SPEAKER_03: She goes, Where'd you get that done?
18:06
SPEAKER_03: I mean, there's like 200 people on the on the live.
18:09
SPEAKER_03: She's like, Where'd you get that done?
18:10
SPEAKER_03: She's like, there is no way that you are your age and that's what your BMR is.
18:15
SPEAKER_03: I'm like, yes, it is.
18:17
SPEAKER_03: She goes, Where'd you get that done?
18:18
SPEAKER_03: I said, uh uh, well, I'll say Dexafit.
18:21
SPEAKER_03: They're a legit, they're a legit place.
18:23
SPEAKER_03: They do VO2 max testing, they do resting metabolic rate, they do, what else did they do?
18:28
SPEAKER_03: They do bone density, they do your fat, they do everything.
18:31
SPEAKER_03: They do all the things.
18:32
SPEAKER_03: And it's next to our trathlon, our big trathlon group headquarters here.
18:36
SPEAKER_03: And I I know one of the athletes who runs it.
18:39
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I know these people, they're trained in it.
18:41
SPEAKER_03: They have all the testing, all the scans.
18:43
SPEAKER_03: And I have been going there for the I've been I've been going there for like five years.
18:48
SPEAKER_03: They know me and I trust they're doing the count, whatever.
18:50
SPEAKER_03: I know, I know what I know this.
18:52
SPEAKER_03: And she's like, that's not true.
18:54
SPEAKER_03: She's like, there's no way a woman your age, you know, that that your BMR is that.
18:58
SPEAKER_03: She's like, that's ridiculous.
19:00
SPEAKER_03: And she actually said that.
19:01
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, okay, but bye.
19:03
SPEAKER_02: I'm out.
19:04
SPEAKER_02: I'm out.
19:05
SPEAKER_03: Because, you know, like, so that's what I'm saying to all of you.
19:08
SPEAKER_03: Like, just please pay attention to who you follow and who you listen to.
19:11
SPEAKER_03: Okay, let's go on.
19:12
SPEAKER_03: We get off topic again.
19:14
SPEAKER_03: Right.
19:14
SPEAKER_03: But we started with burnout, like burnout in athletes.
19:17
SPEAKER_03: I know I have been burnt out.
19:18
SPEAKER_03: I know I have been burnt out in my job.
19:20
SPEAKER_03: I've been burnt out so many times in my career, and I have been burnt out in as an athlete.
19:27
SPEAKER_03: I've been burnt out in life.
19:29
SPEAKER_03: Really, to be honest with you.
19:31
SPEAKER_03: Life has burnt me out.
19:32
SPEAKER_03: I got burnt out during COVID with trying to expand my business.
19:35
SPEAKER_03: I burnt out bad.
19:36
SPEAKER_03: And how did I know it?
19:38
SPEAKER_03: Well, I cried a lot.
19:39
SPEAKER_03: It was in a bad mood a lot.
19:40
SPEAKER_03: So we're going to get into some of the symptoms for each of you because they're different for everybody.
19:44
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
19:44
SPEAKER_03: So let's get into what does burnout, what is it, what does it look like?
19:48
SPEAKER_03: What does it actually look like?
19:49
SPEAKER_03: What does it actually look like?
19:51
SPEAKER_03: So the World Health Organization describes burnout as an occupational phenomenon resulting from chronic workplace stress that has not been successfully managed.
20:03
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
20:04
SPEAKER_03: So it's an occupational phenomenon resulting from chronic workplace stress that has not been successfully managed.
20:12
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
20:12
SPEAKER_03: So think about for yourself.
20:13
SPEAKER_03: So some of the symptoms, what it might look like for you.
20:17
SPEAKER_03: Number one, it could be exhaustion.
20:19
SPEAKER_03: My clients say to me, you know, I start the day and I'm depleted.
20:23
SPEAKER_03: Okay, that could be you're exhausted.
20:26
SPEAKER_03: You're not just tired.
20:27
SPEAKER_03: This isn't you just didn't have a great night's sleep last night.
20:30
SPEAKER_03: You're you're exhausted.
20:31
SPEAKER_03: Being exhausted is different from being tired.
20:34
SPEAKER_03: Okay, that's something I hear quite a bit.
20:36
SPEAKER_03: Here's the one I hear the most, and one that I have had, and I hear this the most with people cynicism or distance.
20:43
SPEAKER_03: This is a big one.
20:44
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, Anna, I used to care.
20:46
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I used to care about my job.
20:47
SPEAKER_03: I'm good at it.
20:48
SPEAKER_03: I like the people.
20:49
SPEAKER_03: I used to care about it, but now I'm I'm irritated before the day even starts.
20:54
SPEAKER_03: I walk in those doors, or I'm irritated before the meeting even begins.
20:57
SPEAKER_03: Like I'm in a bad mood before the Zoom, the the the goo the meet starts.
21:02
SPEAKER_03: I'm annoyed.
21:03
SPEAKER_03: Okay, we gotta pay attention to that.
21:04
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
21:05
SPEAKER_03: If you feel that way, you're annoyed, irritated, bad mood.
21:08
SPEAKER_03: Pay attention to that, okay?
21:10
SPEAKER_03: Reduced effectiveness is one way you might see burnout creeping up for you or creeping in for you.
21:17
SPEAKER_03: You know, I don't feel capable of doing this well anymore.
21:20
SPEAKER_03: You know, that's what I talked about on the post last week on social media.
21:24
SPEAKER_03: It's like I'm not, I'm not as good at this anymore.
21:27
SPEAKER_03: I don't, I feel like I'm capable of doing this the way I did it five years ago.
21:31
SPEAKER_03: Right.
21:32
SPEAKER_03: So you, and here's the thing is you're still getting things done.
21:35
SPEAKER_03: You're still getting it done at work or in your life.
21:38
SPEAKER_03: It just doesn't, but here's the thing is it doesn't tell me, it doesn't tell you most importantly, what it's costing you.
21:44
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you're because you're probably a really good worker.
21:47
SPEAKER_03: You're good at your life, you're good at managing, you're good at managing your personal life, your house, your condo, your townhome, whatever it is, your apartment.
21:54
SPEAKER_03: You're good at managing your pets, your kids, your partner, but you don't.
22:00
SPEAKER_03: Feel like something is different for you, things are just a little off, right?
22:06
SPEAKER_03: Pay attention to that.
22:07
SPEAKER_03: Like there's still a small voice inside of you.
22:10
SPEAKER_03: Pay attention to that.
22:11
SPEAKER_03: What's it telling you?
22:12
SPEAKER_03: In 2025, there was a study, the Women in the Workplace report that it mentioned that six out of 10 senior women reported frequent burnout.
22:24
SPEAKER_03: Six out of 10, and this is just last year.
22:26
SPEAKER_03: At work.
22:28
SPEAKER_03: At work, compared to half of senior men.
22:31
SPEAKER_03: So 50% of senior men and 60% of senior women talked about feeling burnt out in their jobs at work.
22:38
SPEAKER_03: You know, so these are just survey reports.
22:40
SPEAKER_03: It's not a clinical diagnosis, but it's something really big and important to pay attention to.
22:49
SPEAKER_03: And I think what's happening in our personal lives.
22:51
SPEAKER_03: I think many, many of us are walking around burnt out.
22:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:55
SPEAKER_03: Right.
22:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:56
SPEAKER_03: So like I just said, I mean, think about what's happening at work and then think about your personal life and what you have to do there.
23:02
SPEAKER_03: It can just add up.
23:04
SPEAKER_03: So, Tim, when do you how do you notice people at work?
23:08
SPEAKER_03: What's it look like for you when you notice that people are getting depleted at work?
23:13
SPEAKER_03: Is it performance?
23:15
SPEAKER_03: Is it how they act?
23:16
SPEAKER_03: What is it that you notice?
23:18
SPEAKER_00: I think it's more of an attitude.
23:20
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
23:21
SPEAKER_00: I don't think let's take a step back.
23:24
SPEAKER_00: Because I think there's a lot of influencers on being burnt out at work.
23:29
SPEAKER_00: Right?
23:29
SPEAKER_00: Some of it is you.
23:31
SPEAKER_00: Some of it's inside you as that person.
23:33
SPEAKER_00: And that's how you roll, right?
23:35
SPEAKER_00: You you maybe you do overthink things, maybe you I don't know.
23:40
SPEAKER_00: Could be a lot of things inside you as the person.
23:42
SPEAKER_00: But you've also got like the industry affects it that you work in, right?
23:48
SPEAKER_00: That there's certain industries where it's it it's I think it's built around chaos, and it and that's and it's gonna always be busy, right?
23:56
SPEAKER_00: And you might not be, it might not be a lineup and a match for you, that person, and the industry you work in.
24:02
SPEAKER_00: So that could be a thing.
24:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
24:04
SPEAKER_00: Right.
24:04
SPEAKER_00: I think it's also I think a lot of it falls on the employer.
24:08
SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of it mightn't fall on your boss, right?
24:11
SPEAKER_00: Like, is your boss capable?
24:13
SPEAKER_00: I just said, is your boss capable of taking a second, stepping off that fast moving treadmill, and kind of analyzing the people that work for them, right?
24:24
SPEAKER_00: And just like that person looks and acts and lists, it sounds like they might be.
24:29
SPEAKER_03: How many bosses really do that?
24:31
SPEAKER_00: Well, and that's exactly the raise that's a great question.
24:34
SPEAKER_00: Because I think that's part of the problem, right?
24:36
SPEAKER_00: I think if you don't take a second to analyze your team, then you're not doing yourself and the the company that you work for a a service, right?
24:45
SPEAKER_03: You know, and that leads into way we we're not well, I just want to mention it here.
24:50
SPEAKER_03: We could because we could as always we could just talk for hours about all these different topics.
24:56
SPEAKER_03: It that leads into I have had clients who they come to me for coaching and you know why they need coaching up because they're burnt out and you know what they're doing at work and they know that they really shouldn't be doing it, ought not to be doing it.
25:09
SPEAKER_03: You know, some have a tinge of guilt, some have like zero, have gotten to the point now.
25:15
SPEAKER_03: Great workers, yeah, great employees, but gotten to the point now where they don't care.
25:20
SPEAKER_03: Quiet quitting.
25:21
SPEAKER_03: They're quiet quitting.
25:22
SPEAKER_01: Right.
25:23
SPEAKER_03: You know, and they and they don't like that about them.
25:26
SPEAKER_03: They don't like what it says about like sort of, but they don't even care about like integrity of work, integrity of themselves as a worker.
25:32
SPEAKER_03: Like, I don't give a shit anymore.
25:34
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'm quiet quitting.
25:35
SPEAKER_03: I need to be here until so-and-so, I need to be here for whatever, but this is what I'm doing because I'm continually, incessantly, repeatedly not being listened to.
25:46
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
25:46
SPEAKER_03: And having all this stuff dumped on my plate.
25:49
SPEAKER_03: Well, I'm gonna quiet quit.
25:50
SPEAKER_03: And I don't really care.
25:51
SPEAKER_03: And I am hybrid to the days that I'm remote and I'm at home.
25:55
SPEAKER_03: I am gonna do a load of laundry.
25:56
SPEAKER_03: I actually am gonna go get my nails done.
25:59
SPEAKER_03: I am going to not work.
26:01
SPEAKER_03: I'm not turning my I'm not turning my computer on till 10.
26:04
SPEAKER_03: Or I will just say that I'm in a meeting.
26:06
SPEAKER_03: I mean, those are the things that people are doing, so it's probably no surprise, but they're supposed to be air quote at work, but they're not, they're quiet quitting.
26:13
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because it's the only way they feel that they can survive because you have burnt them out.
26:18
SPEAKER_00: Right.
26:19
SPEAKER_03: You can only that's a big, big thing.
26:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you you can only run a person ragged for so long, right?
26:26
SPEAKER_03: Like they'll put up with it for a while because there's pride involved, and and the senior leaders know it and they continue to ignore it because they either don't have the time, they're busy themselves, they don't know what the answer is, there's not money to hire new people, and that takes time.
26:43
SPEAKER_03: And it's like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, tomorrow, tomorrow, minana, manana, man, like tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow.
26:49
SPEAKER_03: Okay, to Demani, Damani.
26:51
SPEAKER_03: Right?
26:52
SPEAKER_00: I well, yeah, I yeah.
26:53
SPEAKER_00: I I think some of that's true.
26:55
SPEAKER_00: I think some senior leadership hears part of that story, right?
27:02
SPEAKER_00: I think some leaders have absolutely no idea.
27:04
SPEAKER_03: And they care in the moment and then nothing changes, and that's what I see.
27:07
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they they hear it, they care.
27:09
SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah, I know.
27:10
SPEAKER_03: I I I see it too.
27:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
27:12
SPEAKER_03: And okay, well, I got something else.
27:13
SPEAKER_03: I gotta go deal because they're putting out fires too.
27:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
27:16
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
27:17
SPEAKER_03: So there's that.
27:18
SPEAKER_03: All right.
27:18
SPEAKER_03: So let's talk a little bit about when it might be more than burnout.
27:21
SPEAKER_03: This is important, and this is the sort of the differential diagnosis for all of you.
27:25
SPEAKER_03: Now, if if you are somebody who, when I talk about this, it resonates for you.
27:29
SPEAKER_03: You're somebody who you might need to see a therapist around this, or someone who like me does both, because you need somebody to be able, like I said in the beginning, to be able to suss this out.
27:39
SPEAKER_03: So burnout and depression can and do overlap.
27:42
SPEAKER_03: All right.
27:43
SPEAKER_03: That's important.
27:44
SPEAKER_03: So, you know, having burnout, that label of being burnt out, does not rule out the other.
27:50
SPEAKER_03: So that's important.
27:52
SPEAKER_03: They can, they can, they can look very similar, all right.
27:55
SPEAKER_03: Feeling better away from work, that's not a diagnostic test.
27:59
SPEAKER_03: So you feeling better when you're not at work, that doesn't tell you, that doesn't tell me so much that somebody is burnt out, you know, with their job because they feel better when they're away from it.
28:08
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
28:09
SPEAKER_03: That's important.
28:10
SPEAKER_03: You having a persistent persistent is the key word here, persistent low mood.
28:16
SPEAKER_03: Low mood.
28:18
SPEAKER_03: Loss of interest in things you normally were interested in life, like maybe a loss of interest in going to Mahjong tomorrow night, loss of interest in going playing in your basketball league or playing pickleball with your friends, loss of interest in whatever it is, your hobbies, or getting together with friends.
28:34
SPEAKER_03: If you have any sort of sense of hopelessness about your job, and now maybe it's creeping into other parts of your life, gotta pay attention to that, okay?
28:43
SPEAKER_03: If there's changes in your sleep or anything in your daily functioning, you do need to see.
28:49
SPEAKER_03: I would you need to see a therapist, you need to see somebody in the mental health field who can diagnose that.
28:54
SPEAKER_03: Okay, because that might that can be burnout, but burnout now could have led into a mood disorder.
28:58
SPEAKER_03: Really, really important year, okay.
29:01
SPEAKER_03: So I want to I want to say that to all of you.
29:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:03
SPEAKER_00: And and if you're lucky, you've got an employer that has an eye for that, right?
29:08
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think most times they don't, but you can you can go to EAP, you could look up your insurance and stuff like that.
29:13
SPEAKER_00: But that's on that's on you, though.
29:15
SPEAKER_00: Like you're not your employer's not necessarily suggesting that, right?
29:19
SPEAKER_03: No, no, no.
29:19
SPEAKER_03: What do you mean?
29:20
SPEAKER_03: You you're no no no, your employers are almost never suggesting that.
29:24
SPEAKER_03: I mean, if your employer is suggesting that, you probably have a really good employer, really good boss, right?
29:29
SPEAKER_00: But that's what I'm saying.
29:29
SPEAKER_00: I think that part is part of this too.
29:31
SPEAKER_00: I think that's part of the problem.
29:32
SPEAKER_00: Like, like the employer should be a little bit more dialed in on their person, right?
29:37
SPEAKER_03: Well, how many employers are taking their time to really air quote check in with their employees or their their workers?
29:42
SPEAKER_00: To my point.
29:43
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
29:44
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I don't even that's a rhetorical question, right?
29:47
SPEAKER_03: So, so you can look in your insurance and see who's in network.
29:50
SPEAKER_03: If you're in Illinois, you can reach out to me and I can see you, but you need to find somebody, okay, who can who you can beat with to help to assess what it is you're dealing with, all right?
30:00
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because it could be something that's deeper than just burnout.
30:03
SPEAKER_03: So you don't have to figure out the right label before asking for help, too.
30:06
SPEAKER_03: I mean, you don't you don't need to know for yourself.
30:08
SPEAKER_03: You can just say, Yeah, Anna just said these a couple, she did two or things, three things right there that you know I kind of experiencing that.
30:15
SPEAKER_03: You don't have to know, you know, let somebody else work with you and tell you that.
30:19
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
30:20
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
30:21
SPEAKER_03: All right.
30:21
SPEAKER_03: So yeah, we know that rest helps, you know, we all need we we all know we need to rest, but you know, let's say I did have like a great, I took vacation and we had I had a great week off.
30:32
SPEAKER_03: It was really, was really good.
30:34
SPEAKER_03: It was rejuvenative and it felt good.
30:36
SPEAKER_03: It did what I think it needed to do.
30:38
SPEAKER_03: But so what happens when you go back?
30:41
SPEAKER_03: But now you got to go back Monday, you know, weekends help.
30:45
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, vacations help.
30:47
SPEAKER_03: There's a 2025 review that found that vacations do improve well-being, which is big because I this is new when I was doing my research here.
30:55
SPEAKER_03: I I would not have thought this.
30:58
SPEAKER_03: Vacations do improve well-being with the benefits being larger and longer lasting than earlier reviews suggested.
31:06
SPEAKER_03: Because we didn't think that taking a vacation would really help with people who are moving into burnout.
31:12
SPEAKER_03: Like when you're in burnout, I think a lot of people are moving into burnout.
31:17
SPEAKER_03: They're not really there at that low, low level of burnout.
31:19
SPEAKER_03: But I see a lot of people who are on that slippery, slippery slope down and they take a vacation and it's like, that's what I needed.
31:26
SPEAKER_03: That's what I needed.
31:27
SPEAKER_03: And they get back and it's like, you know what, that really was wonderful.
31:29
SPEAKER_03: This is interesting.
31:30
SPEAKER_03: The study said, no, it's lasting longer.
31:32
SPEAKER_03: So maybe rather than lasting longer for a day that you got back or the first three days or the week, it's lasting maybe two weeks or three weeks before you start to get those old symptoms creeping back up of feeling like fried at work.
31:46
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
31:46
SPEAKER_03: So that thought that was interesting.
31:48
SPEAKER_03: But the question is whether the demands, the supports that you maybe you don't feel that you have and the expectations of your job come right back.
31:59
SPEAKER_03: So did the demands and the expectations do they come right back, or is there some sort of change when you return?
32:05
SPEAKER_03: And I say for 99.9% of us, nothing changes.
32:08
SPEAKER_03: It's just you're right back at it.
32:10
SPEAKER_00: Why would it change?
32:11
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
32:11
SPEAKER_00: You've not really dealt with the actual issue.
32:14
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but I think we think that maybe something will change because they took this vacation.
32:18
SPEAKER_03: Because sometimes it's not a me job.
32:20
SPEAKER_03: It's not an in this is the one time I'm gonna say this might not always be an in this is not an inside job.
32:25
SPEAKER_03: This is an outside job and it's not changing, right?
32:28
SPEAKER_00: But what do you mean by that?
32:29
SPEAKER_00: It's an outside job.
32:30
SPEAKER_00: What do you mean?
32:31
SPEAKER_03: Because I say oftentimes I say to clients, I've said it here on the podcast, like your Eric.
32:35
SPEAKER_03: Well, I don't believe really in and I don't I don't like look the word happiness because I don't think we're always happy in life.
32:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
32:42
SPEAKER_03: But I think that us looking for peace and contentment and looking, I just say a contented life is an inside job.
32:50
SPEAKER_03: That's inside work, and that's why people come to me to do that work.
32:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
32:54
SPEAKER_03: And I would say to them, listen, that's not that's not an outside job.
32:57
SPEAKER_03: Other people can't make us air quote happy.
32:59
SPEAKER_03: Other people can't give us peace.
33:01
SPEAKER_03: That's right.
33:01
SPEAKER_03: Other people can't give us in contentment.
33:03
SPEAKER_03: This is the one time when I will say, This is an outside job.
33:07
SPEAKER_03: If if the environment, the people, the demands or the constraints on you have not changed, that's not you, that's the job you're in, or maybe the career you're in.
33:17
SPEAKER_00: Right.
33:17
SPEAKER_03: Or the businesses that you're running you own.
33:19
SPEAKER_00: And that's where again I point the finger back.
33:22
SPEAKER_00: Like it's it's it's more on the employer, right?
33:25
SPEAKER_00: The employer should be able to maybe the employer, they think the the boss level, the the the higher level of management needs to be trained better on I think the C-suite needs to work on it.
33:38
SPEAKER_00: Right?
33:38
SPEAKER_00: Like being able to understand the importance of your team, and and and if that they start to crumble, I mean, you're gonna crumble with them in some aspect.
33:49
SPEAKER_00: There's there's absolutely no way you're not going to.
33:51
SPEAKER_00: Right.
33:52
SPEAKER_00: Right?
33:52
SPEAKER_00: Right.
33:53
SPEAKER_00: I I think it's and if you get to the point where it's like you lean heavily into your vacation and you think that's gonna be the thing, I think I think you have to lurk more at like balance on a daily, weekly, monthly basis, right?
34:07
SPEAKER_00: Balancing I have an issue with balance though.
34:09
SPEAKER_03: I I mean I do have an issue with balance.
34:11
SPEAKER_03: I think that balance when you're doing I hear what you're saying, and I'm gonna throw this out to you as well.
34:18
SPEAKER_03: I think that when you're doing really big things and great things, maybe you've got this big project you're working on at work and you're excited about it, you're you're a part of a team or you're heading it up, and you know, you've got a big pitch coming up, you're or you're an attorney and you you're a prosecutor of defense and you're going to trial, you're not going to have what I think of anything in you guys' lives.
34:40
SPEAKER_03: You're you're you're preparing for a big event in your life, whether it be your your career, your work, sports, anything, you don't have balance.
34:48
SPEAKER_03: We know this as tri athletes.
34:49
SPEAKER_03: When we are training for big races, I didn't have balance.
34:53
SPEAKER_03: And for years and years and years didn't have balance, where it was swim, bike, run, strength train, and then it was do this job, like be a therapist, be a coach, be a wife, be a mom, do all the things, and life wasn't balanced.
35:07
SPEAKER_03: And where did it show up?
35:08
SPEAKER_03: It showed up at me cooking dinner for the kids at eight o'clock at night and them being annoyed as hell at me because they were eating dinner so late.
35:16
SPEAKER_03: Or what is for dinner?
35:17
SPEAKER_03: I'm like, shoot, I have a 45-minute ride on the bike and I gotta get this ride in and I have to cook dinner, or I have to get ready for work tomorrow.
35:25
SPEAKER_03: I mean, when you're doing big things in life, we don't have balance.
35:29
SPEAKER_03: And so that's why I say what work-life balance, I don't believe in that so much anymore.
35:34
SPEAKER_03: I do think that for the most part, when you don't have a big thing going on, yes, get back to what is your your status quo, get back to maybe finding your balance or your baseline.
35:44
SPEAKER_03: But when you have really big things happening, do not expect balance.
35:48
SPEAKER_03: You're gonna be working, you know.
35:50
SPEAKER_03: I know I have trial attorneys, clients, they work, they work 20 hours a day.
35:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:56
SPEAKER_03: For six weeks.
35:57
SPEAKER_00: Well, you're that's the industry.
35:59
SPEAKER_00: That's an industry effect, right?
36:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
36:01
SPEAKER_03: But I think when you're doing big things, you're not gonna I just want to say that to all of you because we talk about work-life balance all the time, and I don't I don't agree with that.
36:09
SPEAKER_03: Not when you're doing big things.
36:10
SPEAKER_03: Now, after the race is over, we get a little bit more into balance as we come, we start to come out of race season and we're going into like for me, usually it was the fall, Thanksgiving time.
36:21
SPEAKER_03: I was not in racing season, I wasn't prepping for anything.
36:24
SPEAKER_03: So it was just, you know, getting a run-in.
36:26
SPEAKER_03: That was very different when you're doing big things.
36:30
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, for whatever it is you're doing.
36:32
SPEAKER_00: So let me let me rephrase it.
36:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:34
SPEAKER_00: And tell me how this sounds.
36:35
SPEAKER_00: So you've got an employer who is asking, asking, asking, maybe on the borderline of demanding, right?
36:43
SPEAKER_00: Because you've got this big thing, right?
36:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:45
SPEAKER_00: And there's extra things to do.
36:47
SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's a special event you have to work and you're helping out, right?
36:50
SPEAKER_00: Maybe there's a big project, maybe there's a presentation.
36:53
SPEAKER_00: Ask, ask, ask.
36:55
SPEAKER_00: If if that's always how it goes, you will be burnt out in the context of our conversation today.
37:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
37:01
SPEAKER_00: Versus if I have an employer who takes a second and and the asks don't stop.
37:07
SPEAKER_00: Like the big projects are still there, the budget reports are still there, the the special events are all still there.
37:13
SPEAKER_00: But if the conversation on Monday after that big ask, I ask you to give up family time and come in and do this.
37:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, if I say to you, here's the next thing, off we need to go again, and off we go, I I think that that I have this happening right now with the client.
37:29
SPEAKER_00: Right.
37:30
SPEAKER_00: But I think that just it's it's that supports burnout.
37:34
SPEAKER_00: Yes, it does, right?
37:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think versus hanging out versus if the if my boss comes to me Monday morning and says or texts me on Sunday night and says, Hey, totally appreciate all your extra efforts on Saturday night, Friday night, whatever it is.
37:47
SPEAKER_00: Why don't you flex a little bit of time and come in at noon on Monday?
37:51
SPEAKER_00: Or why don't you take the day off on Tuesday to offset all of this extra stuff you've given me as my employees?
37:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
37:58
SPEAKER_00: Doesn't that change it a little bit for you?
38:01
SPEAKER_00: Like, doesn't that like assist with like the maybe the lack of but that's a quick fix?
38:06
SPEAKER_00: I think that you well, not if it happens all the time, like if that's not a I'm not suggesting it's a one-off.
38:11
SPEAKER_00: I'm suggesting if you ask, ask, ask all the time, then you need to also give, give, give all the time.
38:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
38:17
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because when you were talking right now, I was thinking about the leaky bucket, you know what I mean?
38:22
SPEAKER_03: Like rest, you having rest, taking a vacation, getting a break, like hey, take off on Tuesday.
38:28
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, that we can refill the tank, but it doesn't fix the leak that's in the bucket.
38:33
SPEAKER_03: There's a hole in the bucket.
38:34
SPEAKER_03: And it if you got to plug that hole up, and that's your your boss, your leadership, you know, whoever, you you got to find a way to fill the hole.
38:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
38:46
SPEAKER_03: Because you can tell somebody, take Tuesday off, you know, or we don't care, just get the work done.
38:51
SPEAKER_03: So you're like, okay, well, that's fine.
38:52
SPEAKER_03: I go in every day, or I I didn't get I don't get on until 10 a.m.
38:56
SPEAKER_03: because I'm I get the work done and I'm taking like I'm not gonna start work, I'm gonna go work out and I'm gonna meet a friend for coffee on Thursday morning and I'm not getting on until whatever time.
39:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:07
SPEAKER_03: Okay, that's fine, that's nice, but you've got an overarching theme, pattern problem of you are running your people ragged.
39:18
SPEAKER_03: And my clients are feeling like that, yeah, Anna.
39:20
SPEAKER_03: I mean, maybe it helped me like that week, but this is craziness.
39:25
SPEAKER_03: Now we're getting into busy season and we're all like losing our hair.
39:29
SPEAKER_03: You've got a hole in the bucket.
39:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, have a hole in the bucket, and I think again, I think that's it.
39:35
SPEAKER_00: That potentially is an industry thing.
39:36
SPEAKER_00: I think that like some industries run that way all the time.
39:40
SPEAKER_00: I I just I don't think you're gonna get away.
39:42
SPEAKER_00: You're in sales, right?
39:44
SPEAKER_00: You're never satisfied, you're never not chasing.
39:47
SPEAKER_00: I think that's just how it goes.
39:48
SPEAKER_00: And you signed up for it.
39:49
SPEAKER_00: That's your job.
39:50
SPEAKER_00: You took that job, right?
39:51
SPEAKER_00: So, like you neither need to reassess and be like, maybe this isn't sometimes, yes.
39:57
SPEAKER_03: Sometimes we feel we realize that that that job was not a fit, it didn't fit for us the way we thought it did when we first took it, or maybe it did for the first two years, the first five years, and now it doesn't fit anymore.
40:08
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, and that's why people change and they move on, they get they move into different jobs.
40:13
SPEAKER_00: Okay, and I think we also need to say, like, there's no such thing.
40:17
SPEAKER_00: I think we're 99% accurate in saying this.
40:20
SPEAKER_00: There's no such thing as a perfect job, right?
40:22
SPEAKER_00: I think some people could say, Well, I got I have the perfect job.
40:24
SPEAKER_00: Okay, good for you.
40:25
SPEAKER_00: You're you're the unicorn, right?
40:27
SPEAKER_00: But I think most of the time there's like there's all the stuff that like bugs us and and stresses us out and causes burnout.
40:33
SPEAKER_00: There's all that stuff.
40:34
SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like that's part of the gig.
40:36
SPEAKER_00: And then there's the other side of the stuff, there's the other side of the fence where it's like that's the stuff that like stimulates us and makes us feel good.
40:42
SPEAKER_00: And we like the people we work with, and there's some takeaways for us as a person.
40:47
SPEAKER_00: I think you have to, that's what I'm talking about, like the balance.
40:49
SPEAKER_00: Like it's like at some point you have to evaluate where's that teeter totter for me.
40:53
SPEAKER_03: That's a really good point, too, because you know, well, we're in these jobs, we're here, we spend a lot of time there.
41:00
SPEAKER_03: These people become our work wives and our work husbands, they become friends outside of work, they're people we hang out with now on the weekends and go to happy hours with and go to dinners and lunches with.
41:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
41:10
SPEAKER_03: You know, they become important people in our lives.
41:13
SPEAKER_03: We spend a lot of time in these jobs and around maybe a lot of time around clients, and we really get to know them and to leave.
41:21
SPEAKER_03: Like, I'm comfortable, I know the players, you know, like I know like my drive to work every morning.
41:28
SPEAKER_03: I know like how it goes when I get on Zoom, when I work for my like I have a really nice routine going, yeah, you know, and I like certain people, but management, you know, leadership, you know, they keep dumping on me.
41:44
SPEAKER_03: And I can't and I've told them, I've told them I have the capability to do this, but my capacity is beyond, yeah.
41:53
SPEAKER_03: And it's affecting my work.
41:55
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I can't keep doing it like this.
41:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
41:58
SPEAKER_03: And they're not listening.
42:00
SPEAKER_03: And they most times they say, This is not what it was when I started out.
42:04
SPEAKER_03: This is not what it was.
42:06
SPEAKER_03: And and this is the thing, these are the really good employees, these is these are the good workers.
42:10
SPEAKER_00: Well, that'll be the one that got away.
42:12
SPEAKER_03: Yes, these are the good, these are the amazing salespeople, these are the amazing whatever.
42:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
42:18
SPEAKER_03: That's where you have to think about it too if you're uh you own your own business.
42:21
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you could burn yourself out, but burnout is really high in with entrepreneurs.
42:26
SPEAKER_03: I mean, they say like 97% of entrepreneurs are not doing what they're are doing like five years later or something.
42:31
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like I don't quote me.
42:33
SPEAKER_03: There's a high statistic on burnout and quitting in for entrepreneurs because it's so, so, so, so hard.
42:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
42:40
SPEAKER_03: And I get it, I know why.
42:41
SPEAKER_03: You know, you just got to keep at it.
42:43
SPEAKER_03: You have to be tenacious, you have to keep that tenacity.
42:46
SPEAKER_03: And it's really hard, you know, to and you because you you're not getting a gold star, like great job at the end of the day.
42:52
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, no one's telling you you did a good job, just go home and come back and do it again.
42:57
SPEAKER_00: Do it again, repeat.
42:58
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's if you're fortunate, you have a boss that has sat in your seat before, right?
43:08
SPEAKER_00: And understands the the quantity of ask that comes to that position.
43:13
SPEAKER_00: And you've got a boss that's done it, right?
43:16
SPEAKER_00: And has and has been really good at it and survived air quotes, and has now gotten promoted into this position where maybe they can be an influencer with senior leadership, right?
43:27
SPEAKER_00: And be an advocate for you and your team and your people.
43:30
SPEAKER_00: If you're lucky you have that, you know.
43:33
SPEAKER_03: You know, and I think that there's something about I just lost my train of thought.
43:37
SPEAKER_03: I just lost my train of thought.
43:38
SPEAKER_03: I'll come back to it.
43:39
SPEAKER_03: You just hit upon something that, oh, here's a thing I hear, and I have experienced this myself, and I think that this is something that I'm curious if you all have experienced this, and I know it's going on today with the Gen Zers.
43:52
SPEAKER_03: There seems to be two kinds of bosses.
43:54
SPEAKER_03: There is the boss who let maybe they're in their like I'm I'm gonna.
44:00
SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna kind of create an illusion here for all of you, or a visual, not an illusion, a visual.
44:06
SPEAKER_03: You got the boss who he or she or they're in their 40s, 50s, maybe they're in their early 60s, and they are hard on their employees, and you that you feel as the employee, they're hard on you, and they keep dumping stuff on your plate.
44:20
SPEAKER_03: You've got you've got a million things on your plate.
44:23
SPEAKER_03: You don't need a million in one things on your plate.
44:26
SPEAKER_03: And they know it, you've told them, and they keep doing it because that is what was done to them.
44:31
SPEAKER_03: This is a big thing.
44:33
SPEAKER_03: What was done to me, so I'm not gonna make any easier on you.
44:36
SPEAKER_03: Go ahead and do it.
44:37
SPEAKER_03: Go do it.
44:38
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, stop talking to me about this.
44:40
SPEAKER_03: I did it.
44:41
SPEAKER_03: Now you have to do it.
44:42
SPEAKER_03: There's that, yeah.
44:43
SPEAKER_03: And then there is, I think, the the boss who's a little bit wiser who says that was done to me, and I know how it made me as an employee.
44:52
SPEAKER_03: I did it, but man, it it it like caused me like I'm divorced, it caused me my marriage, it caused me.
44:58
SPEAKER_03: I hear this stuff.
44:59
SPEAKER_03: It caused me my relationship with my kids.
45:01
SPEAKER_03: I was never homeless, always traveling.
45:04
SPEAKER_03: And I now I've finally made it up the ranks and finally that position, and I gotta find a way to do it different because I didn't leave, but lots of really good people left that left that job, left that corporation, left that company.
45:16
SPEAKER_00: That's fair.
45:17
SPEAKER_03: So I want to do it differently.
45:19
SPEAKER_03: And what I see now, the Jet Zers, is they refuse to have the former boss.
45:25
SPEAKER_03: They refuse to have that boss.
45:26
SPEAKER_00: Well, like I'm not gonna do it.
45:28
SPEAKER_03: And that's the and I show you sometimes on TikTok the emails, so not even emails or letters.
45:35
SPEAKER_03: It's written on a piece of like loose leaf paper.
45:37
SPEAKER_03: I quit.
45:38
SPEAKER_03: No, no need to give me an exit interview.
45:41
SPEAKER_03: This place sucks, I'm out.
45:42
SPEAKER_03: Like, this is what Jenseers are writing, which is unheard of to us.
45:45
SPEAKER_03: But they're like, yeah, and they're just not tolerant of it, and we could have a whole discussion around that, which we're not gonna have to talk about.
45:52
SPEAKER_00: No, no, please don't.
45:53
SPEAKER_00: We're not talking about that, yeah.
45:55
SPEAKER_03: But they're like not doing it, not doing it.
45:58
SPEAKER_03: And in a way, I give them credit because I think they're saying this must change, the climate must change.
46:04
SPEAKER_03: And I know that I could I could seriously set up a debate panel right now with people I know, and we could go back and forth for an hour and have a debate about this whole time.
46:11
SPEAKER_00: I would really enjoy that conversation.
46:12
SPEAKER_00: It would be interesting for many of us to hold on a second.
46:14
SPEAKER_00: So I think so.
46:15
SPEAKER_00: You're talking about the reactions, right, of that generation.
46:19
SPEAKER_00: That's a topic to itself.
46:20
SPEAKER_00: That did that's that's like how they react to it.
46:23
SPEAKER_00: Okay, fine.
46:24
SPEAKER_00: Put that aside for a second.
46:25
SPEAKER_00: You're talking about a big mental opinion, like you're talking about like a like a almost like a philosophy of bosses, bosses who were like, it was done to me, yeah, so you can do it too.
46:38
SPEAKER_00: But you're talking about a philosophy suggestion by the younger generation.
46:42
SPEAKER_00: This is a big topic, and you know this, you've not talked about this.
46:45
SPEAKER_00: That that just because you guys used to, you guys, meaning the older generation, used to do this, and this is the way the workforce was set up back in the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, right?
46:56
SPEAKER_00: That doesn't mean it has to stay the same in 2026, right?
47:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like no longer are are should we all be asked to work like five days a week, 10 hours a day, put in extra time, work.
47:09
SPEAKER_03: Well, just wait, because now that AI is here, we may not need you to do all that anymore.
47:12
SPEAKER_00: Right, you might be able to sit home all day long.
47:14
SPEAKER_03: You might be able to sit home all day long, as there are no jobs, right?
47:18
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I sort of digress, but I kind of sort of don't yeah, but that but that's the discussion right now is like maybe the structure right now.
47:25
SPEAKER_00: The structure of it should be different.
47:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we're all talking about it and I can appreciate that.
47:29
SPEAKER_00: I I mean I can appreciate it too.
47:31
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I can appreciate it both ways.
47:32
SPEAKER_03: I mean, yeah, Jamie, what is his name?
47:34
SPEAKER_03: Jamie, oh shoot, you all know the president of Chase Bank last year when someone recorded him going off on the employees at the also of that petition who didn't want to go back to to work full time in person and wanted to keep it hybrid from COVID.
47:47
SPEAKER_03: He like seriously went apeshit on all them.
47:49
SPEAKER_03: It was just screaming at them.
47:51
SPEAKER_03: Probably wasn't a great look.
47:52
SPEAKER_03: But he had good, but I listened to the whole thing.
47:55
SPEAKER_03: He actually had some good points about why he felt it was so important for them to be in the office.
47:59
SPEAKER_03: There is something different of being in the office and being face to face with your colleagues and your co-workers.
48:04
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, there is a lot to say.
48:05
SPEAKER_03: We won't get into that.
48:06
SPEAKER_00: Well, but I and I think this is also relevant because I think a lot of this stuff influences things that could create burnout for us.
48:15
SPEAKER_00: Yes, right?
48:16
SPEAKER_00: If we don't listen to a suggestion of changing the way work is is structured every week, right?
48:23
SPEAKER_00: We don't listen to like let's talk about like remote working.
48:27
SPEAKER_00: We don't listen to that.
48:28
SPEAKER_03: I think if you said, if you even said as an employer, I hear you, I know that you guys are upset about this.
48:36
SPEAKER_03: I or I know you, let's say there's someone comes and sits in your office.
48:39
SPEAKER_03: I know that this is hard for you, this is too much, or you want it, you don't want to do this anymore.
48:44
SPEAKER_03: You know, I I hear that right now.
48:47
SPEAKER_03: I can't take anything off.
48:49
SPEAKER_03: I I you're good at this.
48:50
SPEAKER_03: I need you to do this.
48:52
SPEAKER_03: I I'm aware of it.
48:53
SPEAKER_03: I will work on this in the future and the change, and let's get back together in a month.
48:57
SPEAKER_03: I think even that is better for that employee than you not, I think just the acknowledgement than you not acknowledging that your people, your team, your employees are upset and they're burning out.
49:10
SPEAKER_03: And what happens is as the employer, you lose good people, and you're like, whatever, there'll be someone else who'll come along and just be just as good.
49:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
49:17
SPEAKER_03: You know, and maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe not.
49:21
SPEAKER_00: You hope for that.
49:22
SPEAKER_00: Right.
49:22
SPEAKER_00: But hope is not a good strategy in that case.
49:24
SPEAKER_03: Hope it's not a strategy.
49:25
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
49:25
SPEAKER_03: I say it all the time.
49:26
SPEAKER_03: Hope it's not a strategy.
49:27
SPEAKER_03: But I do think that if you were even able to say that, just show acknowledgement to them, show that I I see you, I hear you.
49:35
SPEAKER_03: That's half the battle with us, is we just want to be seen and heard.
49:38
SPEAKER_03: Like, okay, I know you know, and I'm gonna hold you accountable to it because I'm gonna have, you know, I'm gonna get on your calendar in a month from now or you know, eight weeks from now.
49:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
49:47
SPEAKER_00: But but the employer that like is constantly pushing back on that kind of stuff, yeah, those are the things that create burnout to the to the normal person that works for you, right?
49:59
SPEAKER_00: If the if the person or department or division is saying, hey, we feel like we could get a lot more done if we had one day that was remote working, and you're that employer that like embraces that and listens to it and like let's talk about that.
50:14
SPEAKER_00: How can we make that work for your team?
50:16
SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
50:18
SPEAKER_00: Or you have the employer that's like, oh no, we we our industry is not known for remote working.
50:24
SPEAKER_00: That's just not gonna work for me.
50:25
SPEAKER_00: That's just like it that opens the door and all the excuses, right?
50:29
SPEAKER_00: That creates burnout for a person where they're just like feeling like we call it a closed system.
50:34
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you're closed.
50:35
SPEAKER_00: Banging your head against the wall because you're like, Well, but I've got all these these actual data points that like support this, yeah, as a benefit to me as an employee, a benefit to you as my boss, and a benefit to us as a as a as a business.
50:49
SPEAKER_00: Like, hello.
50:50
SPEAKER_00: I know, you know what I mean?
50:51
SPEAKER_03: Okay, so before we get into I'm gonna talk to you a little bit about which part of your job is wearing you down.
50:56
SPEAKER_03: There's there's some research on this.
50:58
SPEAKER_03: So we're gonna take this apart.
51:00
SPEAKER_03: There's six areas.
51:01
SPEAKER_03: Before we go there, please don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review the podcast with five stars.
51:07
SPEAKER_03: Makes all the difference in the world.
51:09
SPEAKER_03: And if you want to work with me, you want me to coach you, hello at Anamarkaline.com, email me and let's get on a discovery call together, okay, to see if I'd be a good fit for you.
51:20
SPEAKER_03: All right.
51:20
SPEAKER_03: And then if you're in Illinois and you want therapy, you can reach me there at the same place, same email, and Blake, my assistant, will get you on the calendar, or I will get you on the calendar, okay?
51:31
SPEAKER_03: So so if therapy is in Illinois only, coaching is wherever you are in the world, okay?
51:38
SPEAKER_03: All right.
51:38
SPEAKER_03: So which part of the job is wearing you down?
51:42
SPEAKER_03: Like, let's break it down a little bit.
51:43
SPEAKER_03: There's Christina Maslock and Michael Leeder Lighter, they describe six areas where a mismatch between a person and their work can contribute to burnout.
51:53
SPEAKER_03: We talked about this briefly earlier.
51:54
SPEAKER_03: So we're talking about mismatch here.
51:56
SPEAKER_03: And this this can be a burnout thing, right?
51:59
SPEAKER_03: So when you say I'm burned out, it names the experience, right?
52:04
SPEAKER_03: So that names it.
52:05
SPEAKER_03: But these different six areas that I'm going to get into helps you name really what needs attention.
52:10
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
52:11
SPEAKER_03: So number one, workload, just the workload.
52:14
SPEAKER_03: There is no version of this list that's getting done.
52:18
SPEAKER_03: Like it just, there's it's not getting done.
52:20
SPEAKER_03: I cannot get I cannot check off the boxes on this list.
52:24
SPEAKER_03: There's just freaking too much.
52:26
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
52:27
SPEAKER_03: That's gonna lead to burnout, right?
52:29
SPEAKER_03: So the coworker leaves and then their responsibility becomes yours, right?
52:35
SPEAKER_03: So someone leaves, you know, and you're like, you know, great.
52:38
SPEAKER_03: You know, you all know what's gonna happen, right?
52:40
SPEAKER_03: They're they're gonna push it onto all the rest of you, right?
52:44
SPEAKER_03: Nothing comes off your plate, actually, more just got added on.
52:47
SPEAKER_03: So that's workload.
52:48
SPEAKER_03: Number two, control.
52:50
SPEAKER_03: You may say to yourself, I'm responsible for the outcome, but I don't get a say in how this goes.
52:55
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I gotta, yeah, yeah, you're gonna come to me for the outcome, but you give me no say in how this is gonna happen, right?
53:02
SPEAKER_03: So, like maybe you own the project, but you need three approvals to make a decision.
53:08
SPEAKER_03: I know you're smiling, you're grinning, Tim, because I know you know this.
53:11
SPEAKER_00: So good.
53:11
SPEAKER_03: It's control.
53:12
SPEAKER_00: We we the way we say it at work is like, like, you want me to cook the dinner, but you're buying all the ingredients, right?
53:20
SPEAKER_00: Like, I have no say in any of that, but yet I need to cook the I need to make the final product from your stuff, right?
53:26
SPEAKER_03: Pay attention because that's control.
53:28
SPEAKER_03: It's a feeling of loss of control or lack of control that leads to people being burnt out.
53:32
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, why people don't understand this?
53:34
SPEAKER_03: I sometimes I don't understand.
53:36
SPEAKER_00: I mean, this really is simple.
53:37
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, okay.
53:39
SPEAKER_03: Next is reward.
53:40
SPEAKER_03: All right.
53:41
SPEAKER_03: So the first two it's workload, control, and now it's reward.
53:45
SPEAKER_03: Nobody notices something until it goes wrong.
53:49
SPEAKER_03: Oh, this is so, so common.
53:50
SPEAKER_03: Nobody notices, nobody acknowledges, nobody does a shout out.
53:55
SPEAKER_03: There's nothing positive.
53:56
SPEAKER_03: But when something goes wrong, oh yeah, you hear about it.
53:59
SPEAKER_03: You know, pay, recognition, or opportunities do not reflect what you contribute to this job and this company and this career, this system you're in.
54:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
54:10
SPEAKER_03: It it does come out in your salary, comes out in recognition, it comes out in the opportunities that you're not being given.
54:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
54:16
SPEAKER_03: All right.
54:17
SPEAKER_03: So the reward, because that's all about reward.
54:19
SPEAKER_00: And you know, that's so interesting.
54:22
SPEAKER_00: That that could not be any more true.
54:25
SPEAKER_00: Like it's like when something goes wrong, you better believe you're gonna get that email, yep, and everybody's gonna know about it, and it's gonna be like this big like earth-shattering thing that we need to like look at and drill down deep, right?
54:39
SPEAKER_00: And yet there's like a thousand things that went well over the last week or two.
54:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you have not heard one comment about any of that stuff from anybody, yeah, right?
54:52
SPEAKER_00: But that one thing that happens to slip through, oh, maybe because you've got way too much to do, everybody jumps on that bandwagon real fast.
55:00
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
55:01
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
55:01
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
55:02
SPEAKER_03: The next one is community.
55:04
SPEAKER_03: It's the feeling of I don't feel safe.
55:06
SPEAKER_03: I don't, I don't feel safe asking questions, I don't feel safe asking for help.
55:11
SPEAKER_03: You know, mistakes get punished, right?
55:14
SPEAKER_03: Mistakes get punished.
55:16
SPEAKER_03: And what happens is people hide problems instead of solving them together.
55:19
SPEAKER_03: And this is big too.
55:21
SPEAKER_03: They hide the problems instead of coming together in a is a sense of community of let's let's solve this together because you don't have psychological safety, mental safety at work.
55:30
SPEAKER_03: All of this leads to burnout.
55:32
SPEAKER_03: The next one is fairness.
55:34
SPEAKER_03: You know, the the real oh, this is the rules depend on who you are, what your position is, and who you are in the company at the job.
55:43
SPEAKER_03: So some people can protect their time, some people get to do that, they can do that.
55:48
SPEAKER_03: Others are expected to be available constantly.
55:52
SPEAKER_03: Others, it's expected that you know boundaries.
55:56
SPEAKER_03: Forget boundaries that I expect you to be here and be available to me all the time.
56:01
SPEAKER_03: And even if that's texting on the weekends, but other people are able to put up boundaries and parameters around texting and and even while during the nine to five.
56:10
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and it's respected.
56:12
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that that that's a sense of fairness, or it's not just you keep doing that to people, they're gonna burn out.
56:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
56:20
SPEAKER_00: Now that one's interesting, also, right?
56:23
SPEAKER_00: Because I have lived and I've watched my guys live that, right?
56:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like the expectation, although it's not communicated, right?
56:31
SPEAKER_00: It's it's an unspoken expectation, but the expectation is that your phone is with you all the time and you're gonna respond to my text 24-7, basically, and you're gonna respond quickly, right?
56:44
SPEAKER_00: And yet there's other people out there.
56:47
SPEAKER_00: I could text their phone and I I could literally say anything.
56:52
SPEAKER_00: Like, hey, if you text me back, I'll give you a thousand dollars.
56:55
SPEAKER_00: And I'll never hear from them, right?
56:57
SPEAKER_00: Like, like there's literally you will not get any reply whatsoever.
57:00
SPEAKER_00: It's as if their phone is like missing, right?
57:03
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's wild, yeah, and it's okay.
57:06
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
57:06
SPEAKER_00: Unbelievable.
57:07
SPEAKER_03: Okay, and then last one is your values.
57:10
SPEAKER_03: So you might say to yourself, for me to do this job well, it does require something, it requires something of me from me that I don't really feel good about.
57:20
SPEAKER_03: You know, you're you're maybe you're asked to rush something, cut corners, or make promises that you know you can't keep.
57:28
SPEAKER_03: So it now it's cutting into your value system, right?
57:32
SPEAKER_03: So, you know, a manageable workload doesn't cancel out a serious problem with fairness or values.
57:38
SPEAKER_03: So I know you had a lot of this resonated for you because I was gonna ask you, I think you answered my question about it.
57:44
SPEAKER_03: I was gonna ask you what you thought about these, but you've let me know the whole way through.
57:48
SPEAKER_03: Sorry what you thought about that.
57:50
SPEAKER_00: Well, I live this stuff every day.
57:51
SPEAKER_00: It's like it's interesting to me.
57:53
SPEAKER_03: So, what if being the reliable one for you is part of the problem?
57:57
SPEAKER_03: Like, I'm the reliable one.
57:59
SPEAKER_03: Maybe, maybe that's the issue.
58:01
SPEAKER_03: You know, people people know that you're gonna be the one who will handle it, and you're proud of that.
58:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
58:07
SPEAKER_03: So that could be part of the problem.
58:08
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you you if you handle it too much, like you're too available, you're too you're too good at oh, interesting.
58:16
SPEAKER_00: That's an interesting thing.
58:18
SPEAKER_03: Because I've seen this, yeah, because they're like a they're stellar, they're stellar worker, employee, whatever it is, their their career title, you know, and and they are proud of it.
58:27
SPEAKER_03: So what happens is people ask you to fill the gap, they know stay late to it.
58:32
SPEAKER_03: Yes, stay late.
58:33
SPEAKER_03: You go smooth things over, you go in there, you're you're the closer.
58:38
SPEAKER_03: You go to the closet.
58:38
SPEAKER_03: You're the good, you're the closer, you go in.
58:40
SPEAKER_00: That's interesting.
58:41
SPEAKER_03: You know, you remember what everybody else forgot.
58:44
SPEAKER_03: You always remember, like you have such great insight.
58:47
SPEAKER_03: You remember, and no one else remembers this but you.
58:49
SPEAKER_03: And you're like, okay, that feels good.
58:51
SPEAKER_03: It's like an ego boost.
58:52
SPEAKER_03: It's like we we love that.
58:54
SPEAKER_03: You're you're getting someone, you're someone's like buttering you up, and you get that.
58:59
SPEAKER_03: You're like, you're this, you're that.
59:00
SPEAKER_03: Like, okay, okay, this feels wonderful, right?
59:03
SPEAKER_03: But eventually that extra effort becomes the expectation of you.
59:08
SPEAKER_03: This is the thing.
59:09
SPEAKER_03: So I ex yeah, I mean, you're that's just who you are.
59:13
SPEAKER_03: We expect that from you because you're so freaking good at what you do.
59:16
SPEAKER_00: You're the closer, right?
59:18
SPEAKER_03: So for you, that's when you start to pull back and get feel like you're letting everybody down, you're letting yourself down too.
59:25
SPEAKER_03: But it feels like I'm letting myself down because I'm letting them down, because I'm known for being this, this is my role here.
59:32
SPEAKER_03: I'm known for this, right?
59:34
SPEAKER_03: You know, even when what you're doing deep down inside, you know it's not sustainable.
59:39
SPEAKER_03: You just can't keep doing it, you know.
59:41
SPEAKER_03: And maybe you ask yourself if I stop being the person who handles everything, who puts out on the fi puts out all the fires, if I stop being that person, will people still value me?
59:54
SPEAKER_03: That's a big question.
59:56
SPEAKER_03: Will people still value me and see me as the as what my ego likes, the person that I am, the employee that I am, the attorney that I am, the therapist that I am, the manager I am, the the executive that I am, the CEO, CFO, CTO, you name it, yeah, that I am.
1:00:14
SPEAKER_03: If I stop doing that, will I be valued?
1:00:17
SPEAKER_03: But what's the cost to you?
1:00:19
SPEAKER_03: You are this person is burnt out.
1:00:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:00:23
SPEAKER_03: Right?
1:00:24
SPEAKER_03: So that is a different problem than from somebody that I would say you need more sleep.
1:00:30
SPEAKER_03: That's not about just needing more sleep.
1:00:32
SPEAKER_03: This is fair.
1:00:33
SPEAKER_03: It's a it's a much bigger issue.
1:00:35
SPEAKER_03: So here are two useful questions for all of you.
1:00:38
SPEAKER_03: What is actually required of me?
1:00:40
SPEAKER_03: Go back to that.
1:00:41
SPEAKER_03: Go back to this.
1:00:42
SPEAKER_03: What is actually required of me and what am I afraid will happen if I stop doing the extra?
1:00:49
SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna ask this of you again.
1:00:52
SPEAKER_03: What are you afraid is gonna happen if you stop doing the extra?
1:00:56
SPEAKER_03: All right.
1:00:57
SPEAKER_03: I want you all to answer that for yourself.
1:00:59
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
1:01:00
SPEAKER_03: Sometimes the consequences are real, sometimes they really are, right?
1:01:04
SPEAKER_03: But sometimes you've never tested the expectation of you.
1:01:08
SPEAKER_03: You see, like you just said, expectation.
1:01:10
SPEAKER_03: You see the expectations.
1:01:11
SPEAKER_03: Sometimes you have never tested it, right?
1:01:14
SPEAKER_03: So the next step depends on which it is, which is it for you.
1:01:18
SPEAKER_03: Are the consequences real?
1:01:19
SPEAKER_03: Clients say to me, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:01:21
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
1:01:22
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
1:01:22
SPEAKER_03: Then we're having, we're going, we're having that conversation.
1:01:24
SPEAKER_03: We're having conversation based on that.
1:01:26
SPEAKER_03: Sometimes the my clients say to me, Well, no, I mean, I just thought it's an expectation.
1:01:32
SPEAKER_03: I or I think it's an expectation.
1:01:34
SPEAKER_03: Have you tested it?
1:01:35
SPEAKER_03: No.
1:01:36
SPEAKER_03: All right, then we're gonna have it, we're having a conversation around that.
1:01:39
SPEAKER_03: And you've got action steps based on that, okay?
1:01:43
SPEAKER_03: So being dependable doesn't require being endlessly available, right?
1:01:48
SPEAKER_03: Just because you're dependable doesn't mean you're endlessly available to people.
1:01:53
SPEAKER_03: So this can be this can be just one layer of burnout for people.
1:01:57
SPEAKER_03: It doesn't explain every case, of course, or every excuse an employee demands, all right.
1:02:04
SPEAKER_03: So I'm just we're speaking in generalities today, okay?
1:02:07
SPEAKER_03: So I want to ask you, have you ever have you ever kept doing something because it felt like like that's who I am at work, even after it stopped working for you?
1:02:17
SPEAKER_03: Have you ever felt like, well, I do this because it's expected of me and I'm really good at it, and I'm known for kind of known for it?
1:02:23
SPEAKER_03: You know, it doesn't really work for me anymore, but this is what I'm good at, and it's expected of me.
1:02:31
SPEAKER_03: I can already think of something in your old job.
1:02:34
SPEAKER_01: Really?
1:02:36
SPEAKER_03: It stopped working for you personally, professionally, but it was continued to be expected of you because you were good at it.
1:02:42
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
1:02:43
SPEAKER_00: I mean, and and I didn't like it.
1:02:45
SPEAKER_00: I I didn't I wanted to release it.
1:02:48
SPEAKER_00: But you kept doing it because it was what was expected of you.
1:02:51
SPEAKER_00: Um no, I can't really think of anything.
1:02:54
SPEAKER_03: All right.
1:02:55
SPEAKER_03: That is true for a lot of people.
1:02:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:02:57
SPEAKER_03: Where they keep doing something because it was what was expected of them and they knew they were good at it, but they were moving into burnout and it wasn't it wasn't really working.
1:03:06
SPEAKER_03: It wasn't not not really, it was not working for them anymore.
1:03:09
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they kept doing it.
1:03:11
SPEAKER_03: And that's what I helped people do is move out of that.
1:03:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:03:14
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I can think of things that originally when I started working at places, there were things that were not expected of me.
1:03:22
SPEAKER_00: And then I think over time, I think, I think the position and the environment and then the way I kind of like worked with that, I discovered that I was good at this or that.
1:03:34
SPEAKER_03: Right.
1:03:34
SPEAKER_00: And I didn't know it when you went in.
1:03:37
SPEAKER_00: When I went in, and then other people started as to see that I was like good at this one thing or whatever it was, and and then the expectation was like, Well, you well, Tib will always do that.
1:03:47
SPEAKER_00: You got this, right?
1:03:48
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, and I Oh, I didn't know that's part of my job.
1:03:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I but I took it as a positive because I felt like it's like wow, I I discovered something that I actually didn't know.
1:03:57
SPEAKER_03: So you didn't get burnt out on it though.
1:03:58
SPEAKER_03: You didn't get burnt out on that one thing.
1:03:59
SPEAKER_03: Some people do, yeah.
1:04:00
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:04:01
SPEAKER_03: All right, so okay, this is your part now, and and this is also the leadership part.
1:04:06
SPEAKER_03: So this is your part when I'm speaking to you, the listener or the watcher.
1:04:09
SPEAKER_03: This is your part.
1:04:09
SPEAKER_03: And then we're gonna talk a little bit about what is your bosses or your manager, your lead the leadership part of your company or where you're working its part.
1:04:18
SPEAKER_03: So your part may be naming your capacity, you name it, right?
1:04:24
SPEAKER_03: And and asking for priority.
1:04:25
SPEAKER_03: So that's where you have to step up and you have to name, you know, this is what I'm capable of doing, you know, asking for okay, where is this in the list of priorities of things that I have to do, you know, or making the extra work visible to them.
1:04:39
SPEAKER_03: Like sometimes they don't know because you haven't made it visible to them.
1:04:42
SPEAKER_03: You got to let them know, right?
1:04:44
SPEAKER_03: Make it visible to them.
1:04:46
SPEAKER_03: Leadership's part includes staffing.
1:04:50
SPEAKER_03: This is probably you, Tim, coming in.
1:04:52
SPEAKER_03: Like so you can think about, I want you to think about like your part as the employee, and then I want you to think about your yourself as a leader.
1:04:58
SPEAKER_03: You know, leaderships is that's you with staffing, workload of your employees, decision-making authority, um, fair treatment of everybody, and realistic expectations of your people.
1:05:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:05:13
SPEAKER_03: You know, that's your part as a leader, okay?
1:05:15
SPEAKER_03: If you're in any sort of leadership position, okay.
1:05:18
SPEAKER_03: You know, a boundary cannot create another staff member.
1:05:22
SPEAKER_03: You know, you set a boundary, it doesn't create another staff member, then that's that's a that's a big term.
1:05:27
SPEAKER_03: That's a big sentence because I have I work with people around this alone, you know, setting boundaries, you know, and you can't not having boundaries like you you can't be two people.
1:05:40
SPEAKER_03: You can't be three people at once.
1:05:41
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
1:05:42
SPEAKER_01: Right.
1:05:43
SPEAKER_03: So silence, your silence is not proof of capacity.
1:05:48
SPEAKER_03: Silence isn't proof of capacity.
1:05:51
SPEAKER_03: That's really important because people are saying, you know, you don't like, oh, she won't, she won't say anything.
1:05:56
SPEAKER_03: You're not, he's not gonna say anything.
1:05:57
SPEAKER_03: They they're capable of doing it, right?
1:06:00
SPEAKER_03: I mean, just because you stayed silent doesn't mean your people are not are are capable.
1:06:04
SPEAKER_03: Sometimes they're not.
1:06:05
SPEAKER_03: And sometimes they're not.
1:06:07
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they don't have the capacity to do it right now.
1:06:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:06:09
SPEAKER_03: They're capable.
1:06:10
SPEAKER_03: I'm sorry, they're capable.
1:06:11
SPEAKER_03: They don't have the capacity right now.
1:06:12
SPEAKER_01: Right.
1:06:13
SPEAKER_03: So don't assume things about your people.
1:06:16
SPEAKER_03: So if you manage people, if you're a manager of people, ask what needs to change about the work.
1:06:22
SPEAKER_03: Right?
1:06:23
SPEAKER_03: Ask what needs to change about the work if you're a manager of people of people alongside encouraging time off.
1:06:29
SPEAKER_03: Let people take time off.
1:06:30
SPEAKER_03: Encourage it.
1:06:32
SPEAKER_03: Some people are really good at this.
1:06:33
SPEAKER_03: Some people are not as managers.
1:06:35
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
1:06:36
SPEAKER_03: If you're the boss, if you're the big boss, which demands can you remove for people?
1:06:42
SPEAKER_03: Which demands can you delegate for people?
1:06:45
SPEAKER_03: Delay or stop promising?
1:06:49
SPEAKER_03: If you're the boss, okay, what can you remove?
1:06:52
SPEAKER_03: What can you delegate or delay?
1:06:55
SPEAKER_03: Or what can you stop promising to people?
1:06:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:06:59
SPEAKER_00: That's big.
1:07:00
SPEAKER_03: So what do you say when someone tells you that everything is a priority?
1:07:03
SPEAKER_03: Everything is a priority, Tim.
1:07:06
SPEAKER_00: I say that's funny.
1:07:08
SPEAKER_00: Let's put that in order.
1:07:10
SPEAKER_00: Everything can't be prioritizing.
1:07:12
SPEAKER_00: Okay, maybe in someone's mind it they're all priorities.
1:07:15
SPEAKER_03: And we still can't Well, I know that that has been said to you in so many ways before.
1:07:18
SPEAKER_00: Maybe not just like and we still need to categorize them.
1:07:22
SPEAKER_00: We still have to put them in order.
1:07:23
SPEAKER_03: So you say that we gotta put this a priority.
1:07:25
SPEAKER_03: So you let your boss know this cannot all be done.
1:07:28
SPEAKER_03: We what do you what do you need done first and second?
1:07:30
SPEAKER_00: And I don't even think the request is is I don't think the person making the request believes that it can be done.
1:07:35
SPEAKER_03: What about the per if they're like it all has to get done, Tim?
1:07:38
SPEAKER_03: It's all got to get done.
1:07:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it will, and we can only do one thing at a time, right?
1:07:44
SPEAKER_00: We only we're only one person or two people or a team of 10 or whatever it is.
1:07:48
SPEAKER_00: We we still have to work through the list, right?
1:07:51
SPEAKER_03: So what about like I can get A or B done this week, which takes priority?
1:07:57
SPEAKER_03: Like I can do A or I can do B.
1:07:59
SPEAKER_03: What do you think, boss?
1:08:00
SPEAKER_03: What's the priority for you?
1:08:01
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I love that ask the question back to your boss.
1:08:04
SPEAKER_03: A thousand.
1:08:05
SPEAKER_03: Okay, I can do A or I can do B.
1:08:06
SPEAKER_03: What which which do you want?
1:08:08
SPEAKER_03: What do you want?
1:08:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I've asked that before.
1:08:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, puts we we can do all the stuff for you.
1:08:12
SPEAKER_03: What if the answer is both?
1:08:14
SPEAKER_00: It can't be.
1:08:15
SPEAKER_03: So, you know, the answer, like so that your boss says you no, the answer is both.
1:08:20
SPEAKER_00: Both at the same time?
1:08:22
SPEAKER_03: Then you could say, Yeah, like, no, I want you to do both.
1:08:24
SPEAKER_03: Then you could say, then what moves?
1:08:26
SPEAKER_03: Then what what what's gonna move, or or who can help me?
1:08:30
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
1:08:30
SPEAKER_03: Well, what then what are we moving off my plate, or who's gonna help with that?
1:08:33
SPEAKER_00: I think I have a good enough relationship with my boss that I would be like, okay, we can do both.
1:08:38
SPEAKER_00: And where do you want to sit while you come help to get this done?
1:08:41
SPEAKER_03: Right, like you that's wonderful, but most people can't say that too.
1:08:44
SPEAKER_00: Well, then I be but like I think if you're asking a ridiculous question, you're gonna get a ridiculous answer.
1:08:50
SPEAKER_03: Okay, yeah, I agree with you.
1:08:51
SPEAKER_03: There are rich, there are so many of us are dealing with these ridiculous requests.
1:08:56
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:08:56
SPEAKER_03: And I think we have to find it within ourselves to be assertive and say, okay, I can do A, not B, but if you want me to do uh okay, you want me to do A and B, then what's gonna move?
1:09:07
SPEAKER_03: I got I somebody's gotta do this or that this week.
1:09:09
SPEAKER_03: I can't do it.
1:09:10
SPEAKER_00: Right.
1:09:10
SPEAKER_03: I need or I need someone to come in and help me.
1:09:12
SPEAKER_00: And I think that would be uh a reasonable answer, and I think it would be an expected answer.
1:09:17
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
1:09:18
SPEAKER_03: So if nothing can move, nothing can move, here's what I can complete with the time and resources available.
1:09:26
SPEAKER_03: That's fair.
1:09:26
SPEAKER_03: Say that, write that down and say it to your to your manager.
1:09:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's fair.
1:09:30
SPEAKER_03: Here's what I can get done.
1:09:31
SPEAKER_03: Here's what I can complete with the time and resources that are available.
1:09:34
SPEAKER_03: I think that's a great answer.
1:09:36
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:09:37
SPEAKER_03: So not everyone can safely push back or leave, right?
1:09:41
SPEAKER_03: Not everyone can do that.
1:09:42
SPEAKER_03: So an ally for you in the workplace, documented priorities, writing things down, write document things, write things down, or a gradual plan may be the available next step for you or first step.
1:09:57
SPEAKER_03: All right.
1:09:58
SPEAKER_03: So look for somebody who is an ally with you.
1:10:01
SPEAKER_03: I've worked and I'm working actually with somebody right now on kind of like girding their loins, like getting allies around them.
1:10:10
SPEAKER_03: And I'm working with them also on documenting, documenting, documenting.
1:10:14
SPEAKER_03: Because they are they are another person who's moving into burnout.
1:10:17
SPEAKER_03: This is a really big topic.
1:10:18
SPEAKER_03: This is a really big issue for people.
1:10:20
SPEAKER_03: I think today, we all live this because we're feeling burnt out with life in general.
1:10:25
SPEAKER_03: Lives a burden with the world, yeah, yeah, and and work is burning us out.
1:10:29
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:10:29
SPEAKER_03: So where to start?
1:10:32
SPEAKER_03: Where where would where to start?
1:10:34
SPEAKER_03: So I want you to rate each area of what I just went through: workload, control, reward, community, fairness, values.
1:10:45
SPEAKER_03: You know, one could be it's working well, all the way one, two, three, four, five could be a serious mismatch.
1:10:52
SPEAKER_03: Okay, because sometimes it is a mismatch, all right.
1:10:54
SPEAKER_03: So that's that's where I would start, and that's where I would have you start.
1:10:58
SPEAKER_03: You know, I want you to circle the highest number.
1:11:00
SPEAKER_03: If it's a tie, choose the one with the clearest first step.
1:11:03
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
1:11:03
SPEAKER_03: So, you know, circle the highest number, right?
1:11:06
SPEAKER_03: The serious mismatch.
1:11:08
SPEAKER_03: And if there's a tie, take the two and choose the one with the clearest first step for you.
1:11:14
SPEAKER_03: Okay, that's something I I can I'm gonna do that first.
1:11:17
SPEAKER_03: All right.
1:11:18
SPEAKER_03: This is a reflection exercise, everyone.
1:11:20
SPEAKER_03: Okay, this is a reflection exercise.
1:11:22
SPEAKER_03: This is not, I'm not giving you a burnout screening tool.
1:11:24
SPEAKER_03: That's not what this is today.
1:11:26
SPEAKER_03: Okay, we don't, I'm not doing that on the podcast.
1:11:28
SPEAKER_03: Okay, so just to help you reflect about your job, okay.
1:11:32
SPEAKER_03: So choose one area and one thing that you could change.
1:11:36
SPEAKER_03: Okay, what's one one area of our jobs, one area of your job, and one thing that you believe that you could change, you know, what would make it just a little bit better for you at work, that one area.
1:11:51
SPEAKER_03: Really think this through.
1:11:52
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
1:11:53
SPEAKER_00: So this is something that you it's real.
1:11:55
SPEAKER_00: This is your reflection.
1:11:56
SPEAKER_00: You actually have control over this change.
1:11:59
SPEAKER_03: Yes, yes, yes, yes.
1:12:00
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:12:00
SPEAKER_03: Something that's real that you can do.
1:12:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:12:02
SPEAKER_03: And and some of you may say, I don't, it's not real for me, and there's not much I feel I can change.
1:12:08
SPEAKER_03: Okay, well, that's a different conversation we said earlier.
1:12:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:12:11
SPEAKER_03: That's that's this conversation versus this conversation.
1:12:14
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
1:12:15
SPEAKER_03: Okay, so you don't you don't you gotta start with a specific problem though.
1:12:19
SPEAKER_03: Start with specific problems, all right.
1:12:21
SPEAKER_03: And this is what I I do with my coaching clients, you know, we the overall arching theme of being burnt out, and then we gotta we go in and we nail specific issues.
1:12:30
SPEAKER_03: Okay, so here are your power moves.
1:12:32
SPEAKER_03: We're way over time.
1:12:34
SPEAKER_03: Make the load visible.
1:12:36
SPEAKER_03: Number one, make the load visible.
1:12:38
SPEAKER_03: Write down what you're carrying at work and at home, all right.
1:12:42
SPEAKER_03: Including the work of remembering, planning, and following up.
1:12:47
SPEAKER_03: All right.
1:12:48
SPEAKER_03: Mark the responsibilities you've quietly been absorbing over time.
1:12:52
SPEAKER_03: Okay, so this is work and home because burnout affects our personal lives and we bring our personal lives to work.
1:12:58
SPEAKER_03: So I I I'm bringing them all together now for you.
1:13:00
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
1:13:01
SPEAKER_03: Mark the responsibilities that you have quietly been absorbing over maybe weeks, months, and years.
1:13:06
SPEAKER_03: Number two, I want you to name the mismatch.
1:13:08
SPEAKER_03: That's a little bit of the work that you just did.
1:13:10
SPEAKER_03: You know, I want you to finish the sentence.
1:13:12
SPEAKER_03: Here's the sentence.
1:13:13
SPEAKER_03: The part costing me the most is the part that's costing me the most is fill in the blank for yourself.
1:13:22
SPEAKER_03: Okay, so use one recent example.
1:13:25
SPEAKER_03: Okay, get it for yourself when you think about this.
1:13:28
SPEAKER_03: Get more specific than like everything is too much.
1:13:32
SPEAKER_03: That's that's not that's not good enough.
1:13:33
SPEAKER_03: We're not using blanket statements.
1:13:35
SPEAKER_03: I want you to get specific for yourself about what's everything.
1:13:39
SPEAKER_03: Break it down.
1:13:39
SPEAKER_03: What's everything?
1:13:40
SPEAKER_03: Everything it's what's everything?
1:13:42
SPEAKER_03: Break it down.
1:13:43
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
1:13:44
SPEAKER_03: The part costing me the most is break it down.
1:13:47
SPEAKER_03: Number three, make one concrete request.
1:13:51
SPEAKER_03: So when it comes to workload, like I said earlier, what can come off my list?
1:13:56
SPEAKER_03: Say it to yourself and go ask your boss.
1:13:58
SPEAKER_03: When if let's say it's control, which decisions can I make without anybody else's approval?
1:14:05
SPEAKER_03: That gives us a sense of control back for us.
1:14:08
SPEAKER_03: You know, what decision can I make without anybody else's approval?
1:14:12
SPEAKER_03: Maybe it's recognition for you.
1:14:14
SPEAKER_03: Can we clarify how my contribution's going to be acknowledged?
1:14:18
SPEAKER_03: And I love that one because I I think more people need to do it and need to say this at work.
1:14:24
SPEAKER_03: Ask the question.
1:14:25
SPEAKER_03: Can we can can we clarify how my contribution is going to be acknowledged?
1:14:29
SPEAKER_03: I love that.
1:14:30
SPEAKER_03: I love that.
1:14:31
SPEAKER_03: I love it.
1:14:32
SPEAKER_03: But I think it's something that not but and I think it's something we need to start doing more.
1:14:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:14:38
SPEAKER_03: Gen Zingers are good at it.
1:14:39
SPEAKER_03: But many of us older Gen Xers, older millennials are not good at this.
1:14:43
SPEAKER_00: I've never heard anybody ask that question.
1:14:45
SPEAKER_00: I I don't not like it, but I've I've never heard anybody ask it.
1:14:48
SPEAKER_03: Well, maybe you're maybe it's a conversation you're having when you're having your one-on-one with your boss, your manager, maybe that could be your team leader.
1:14:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, that's that's true.
1:14:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:14:56
SPEAKER_03: Because I feel like I'm not being seen in not recording.
1:14:59
SPEAKER_03: You could have it one-on-one, absolutely.
1:15:00
SPEAKER_03: And I this is what I coach people through.
1:15:01
SPEAKER_03: I coach people through these conversations.
1:15:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:15:03
SPEAKER_03: Okay, number four, stop absorbing one extra demand silently.
1:15:07
SPEAKER_03: Stop doing that.
1:15:08
SPEAKER_03: You know, I've been and and it's like, say, I've been covering this since the the role became vacant.
1:15:16
SPEAKER_03: Like we need somebody hired in that spot.
1:15:19
SPEAKER_03: And I've been doing this the whole time.
1:15:20
SPEAKER_03: You know, we we need a plan for who's gonna do this now.
1:15:23
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we need a plan for who owns it.
1:15:25
SPEAKER_03: It can't just be me.
1:15:26
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
1:15:26
SPEAKER_03: Stop absorbing one air quote, one extra demand silently.
1:15:31
SPEAKER_03: Don't do that, right?
1:15:33
SPEAKER_03: Choose a safe and realistic conversation with maybe your manager.
1:15:38
SPEAKER_03: You know, you don't have to make some dramatic announcement, doesn't have to be all drama.
1:15:42
SPEAKER_03: Just say something like, All right, I've been covering this since you know Susie left.
1:15:46
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:15:47
SPEAKER_03: You know, I know that we're hired, we're interviewing, I know you're interviewing and you guys you haven't hired anybody yet, but we need a plan for who's gonna take this on.
1:15:53
SPEAKER_03: It can't just be me.
1:15:55
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
1:15:55
SPEAKER_00: Can I give you a quick story?
1:15:57
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
1:15:58
SPEAKER_00: That that relates to that that you just described.
1:16:01
SPEAKER_00: And I'm not, I don't want to let me quantify this.
1:16:03
SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying because I want anyone to pat me on the back, but I want I want to use it as an example.
1:16:08
SPEAKER_00: Okay, sure.
1:16:09
SPEAKER_00: So I have five people that report to me at work.
1:16:12
SPEAKER_00: Okay, and so this story goes back probably two, two and a half years ago.
1:16:17
SPEAKER_00: So one of my people came to me on a Monday morning after having been called at home to help with this or that because their people, somebody was sick, we were light on staff covering our building, and that's this person's function was to be the backup to all of that or have a plan in place to to cover this or that and not leave holes in our facility, holes meaning staff holes.
1:16:43
SPEAKER_00: Like if this person's called off, then this desk needs to be run by somebody.
1:16:47
SPEAKER_00: Well, she had to go in, she had to go in and do that, and it just was like a thing for this particular weekend, and then this had been building up for her over the course of a while.
1:16:56
SPEAKER_00: And so she came into my office this Monday morning and she's like, I quit.
1:16:59
SPEAKER_00: She was like, I I because I can't do this anymore.
1:17:01
SPEAKER_00: She's crying.
1:17:02
SPEAKER_00: She was like, and I was like, oof, and and she just is quitting, she's an amazing worker, yeah.
1:17:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
1:17:07
SPEAKER_00: So this is a great example, and I was like, Okay, I said, uh, you know, we we kind of like we kind of calmed it down a little bit.
1:17:15
SPEAKER_03: She's telling you she's quitting, and she tells you, did she tell you why?
1:17:18
SPEAKER_00: She's like, Yeah, because I can't do this anymore.
1:17:19
SPEAKER_00: I can't be called into I can't give up my Saturday, I can't take these phone calls.
1:17:23
SPEAKER_00: I can't, I can't the expectation on me is is too much, and I and I didn't sign up for all of this extra personal time to be given to work.
1:17:32
SPEAKER_00: And it was beyond it, it's beyond, but it's also beyond like how much money you make.
1:17:36
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
1:17:36
SPEAKER_03: Especially if you don't feel like you're not making enough, you're like, this ain't worth it.
1:17:39
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's a big thing for me.
1:17:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:17:41
SPEAKER_00: So I said, okay, I said, you know what?
1:17:43
SPEAKER_00: And and I told her how much I appreciated her like efforts, and like I, you know, we I love working with her and you know, all of this stuff.
1:17:50
SPEAKER_00: Like, I just made her feel, you know, like because you really didn't feel that way.
1:17:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because you really didn't feel that way.
1:17:55
SPEAKER_01: Oh, a thousand percent.
1:17:55
SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm like, I can't let I can't let this happen.
1:17:58
SPEAKER_00: Like, I I need to figure this.
1:17:59
SPEAKER_00: Now I need to figure this out.
1:18:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:18:01
SPEAKER_00: So I said, you know what?
1:18:02
SPEAKER_00: Can can we just before we push go on this decision that you're making, I said, can you give me a day to just kind of figure this out?
1:18:11
SPEAKER_00: And she's like, Yeah, of course.
1:18:13
SPEAKER_00: So I went, I literally just like I turned everything off that I had planned for the day, and I went into a a different room and I shut the door and I didn't come out for hours.
1:18:21
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, all right, let's figure out how we can restructure the the business to support more staff for her on the weekends so that she doesn't have to deal with this stuff.
1:18:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:18:35
SPEAKER_00: So we we we came up, I came up with a different way of looking at it, and we actually hired a couple different people to put in place who were assisting for weekend responsibilities.
1:18:44
SPEAKER_00: And so I came back to her the next day.
1:18:46
SPEAKER_00: I said, okay, I said, how does this sound?
1:18:48
SPEAKER_00: And so we kind of talked it all through, and she's like, Oh, I like that.
1:18:51
SPEAKER_00: Like I said, but we we're gonna need to act quickly, right?
1:18:54
SPEAKER_00: Like I we're gonna need you, like do we have that person?
1:18:56
SPEAKER_00: Are we promoting somebody?
1:18:58
SPEAKER_00: Are we looking for somebody?
1:18:59
SPEAKER_00: Like we need to figure all of the pieces out, right?
1:19:02
SPEAKER_00: We'll do that together.
1:19:03
SPEAKER_00: I'll help you do that.
1:19:05
SPEAKER_00: I said, but but I want because I value you as an employee, I want you to stay here.
1:19:10
SPEAKER_00: Well, that's great.
1:19:10
SPEAKER_00: He told her the things she needed to hear, and so it ended up and you made changes.
1:19:14
SPEAKER_00: We we figured it out together, yeah.
1:19:16
SPEAKER_00: And it was like, and she still works for me, she's amazing.
1:19:19
SPEAKER_00: So, but I say that because I think that like that's a great example of like if you're in a position of management or position of of power where you have the ability to do that, do it, right?
1:19:30
SPEAKER_00: Like, like, like listen to your people, right?
1:19:32
SPEAKER_00: And if you can make some changes, like like go for it, like like it's a great way to help your person and avoid being burnt out.
1:19:39
SPEAKER_00: You really helped her, yeah.
1:19:40
SPEAKER_03: And she's still with you.
1:19:41
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's awesome.
1:19:42
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so stop absorbing one extra demand.
1:19:46
SPEAKER_03: There you go.
1:19:47
SPEAKER_00: Silently, that's a great that's that's exactly why I said that because I was like, oh, I I think I've like lived this once.
1:19:52
SPEAKER_03: And then she spoke up.
1:19:53
SPEAKER_03: She did, you helped her, yeah.
1:19:55
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
1:19:55
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
1:19:56
SPEAKER_03: The next one is protect recovery and address the conditions.
1:20:00
SPEAKER_03: This is your power move, number five, right?
1:20:02
SPEAKER_03: Take the break, you know, protect your time off.
1:20:06
SPEAKER_03: You know, when you're off, when you're not working, protect that time, okay.
1:20:10
SPEAKER_03: And I would say do not respond to texts on the weekends.
1:20:14
SPEAKER_03: I would say really set up those boundaries for yourself and stick to them, okay?
1:20:20
SPEAKER_03: So, you know, take the time to recover, pair that recovery with one conversation about the work you're returning to.
1:20:28
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
1:20:28
SPEAKER_01: I like that.
1:20:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:20:30
SPEAKER_03: And your next power move is get support before you have the perfect explanation.
1:20:34
SPEAKER_03: So persistent distress, loss of interest, or difficulty functioning are reasons to reach out.
1:20:41
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
1:20:42
SPEAKER_03: You you gotta please pay attention to that, everyone.
1:20:45
SPEAKER_03: You know, you can ask for for help while still working out what's happening in your life, what's happening at work.
1:20:51
SPEAKER_03: All right.
1:20:52
SPEAKER_03: You can you can still you can you can ask for help.
1:20:55
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, you know, and get the help.
1:20:57
SPEAKER_03: And sometimes it's like you do need to see go to through EAP or oh I I personally would go outside of, I would go see somebody who understands burnout and knows it, but also who knows what depression is and anxiety can help you suss out what's what.
1:21:14
SPEAKER_03: Okay, because they are bedfellows as well, burnout and depression.
1:21:17
SPEAKER_03: And sometimes burnout can lead to depression, and sometimes it's that you're dealing, you are someone who struggles with a mood disorder, you know.
1:21:24
SPEAKER_03: And if you do and you get to and you get burnt out, you got to have somebody helping you with that, okay?
1:21:31
SPEAKER_03: And that that's a different way of of treating someone, okay?
1:21:34
SPEAKER_03: So this week I want you to look at for one mismatch, okay?
1:21:38
SPEAKER_03: Take take the little test I gave you, the reflection tool, and look for one mismatch.
1:21:43
SPEAKER_03: I want you to make one request and I want you to find one person to talk to.
1:21:48
SPEAKER_03: Maybe you're just looking for an ally.
1:21:50
SPEAKER_03: Maybe you are gonna go and talk to your to the team leader.
1:21:53
SPEAKER_03: Maybe you're gonna go talk to the boss's boss.
1:21:56
SPEAKER_03: I don't know what you're doing, but you're doing something, okay?
1:21:59
SPEAKER_03: So a weekend, a weekend off, yeah, that's a recovery day, but you also may need to change the training plan for your job.
1:22:08
SPEAKER_00: Okay, like that.
1:22:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:22:09
SPEAKER_03: All right.
1:22:10
SPEAKER_03: That's good.
1:22:10
SPEAKER_03: So share this episode with someone who's been carrying more than anyone else can see, but you know about it, share it with them.
1:22:17
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
1:22:18
SPEAKER_00: At work.
1:22:19
SPEAKER_00: Who would you not share it with?
1:22:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:22:21
SPEAKER_00: Like I think everybody has a version of this story.
1:22:23
SPEAKER_03: This is a very relatable episode because so, so many of us have been.
1:22:26
SPEAKER_00: I think so.
1:22:27
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because I know I have dealt with burnout.
1:22:29
SPEAKER_03: I know that I have like burnt out and left jobs because I was so burnt out, and I voiced it, voiced it, voiced it.
1:22:35
SPEAKER_03: And for some of you, that is the answer.
1:22:37
SPEAKER_03: And there was nothing to be done about it.
1:22:39
SPEAKER_03: My boss has told me there's nothing to be done about it, and so it was up to me then to do something about it.
1:22:44
SPEAKER_03: And I left because I could, it was not sustainable what I was doing.
1:22:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:22:48
SPEAKER_03: So that might be the answer for some of you.
1:22:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:22:50
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
1:22:51
SPEAKER_03: Mad love, everyone.
1:22:52
SPEAKER_03: We'll see you next week.
1:22:53
SPEAKER_03: Please don't forget as well, rate, subscribe to the podcast, share it.
1:22:59
SPEAKER_03: We appreciate it.
1:23:00
SPEAKER_03: All right.
1:23:00
SPEAKER_03: Until next time.