Latest / Free Therapy with Ben & Kevin / The World Needs Free Therapy (meet Ben and Kevin) #1

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The World Needs Free Therapy (meet Ben and Kevin) #1 · Free Therapy with Ben & Kevin

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: The World Needs Free Therapy.
• 0:02
  Speaker 2: I'm Ben and I'm Kevin.
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Free Therapy.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: Dora leads re Therapy. The World Needs Therapy.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the first episode of Free Therapy. My name
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: is Kevin. I'm Ben, and Free Therapy is a show
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: where we're going to talk with a different therapist every
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: single week about all the stuff that guys struggle with
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: but don't say out loud.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, Kevi and I met in college and
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: your roommates, and we're kind of roommates today.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: To be honest, the adult version.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Kevi lives across the street from me, and it's
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: funny because it's like the episode of Friends. But really,
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: I'll go and get packages for you when you asked.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Me, and I forget and I'm at home.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: And then I'll be like, yo, keV, do you have
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: a banana? Because I'll always never buy enough for my smoothies.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: So yeah, that's the adult version of our situations.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: That's live and Ben and I've always had this kind
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: of relationship where we talk about the real shit we're
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: going through. I mean, like all the way back to
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: college when you were going through some of the hardest
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: times of your life. Op to today, and I think
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: one of the blessings of our friendship.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it really has been something unique for both of
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: us that we've, from our early beginnings of our friendship
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: been able to explore things that I think most of
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: our friends didn't do or we were thought maybe we
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: were the only ones. And I think that's what led
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: us to this point, was that these really like I
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: don't know, just intimate, vulnerable conversations have kind of allowed
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: us to explore things about ourselves that maybe we were
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: afraid to talk about. And from there, I think kind
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: of a birth this beautiful journey we're about to go on.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, so Kevin, I thought maybe it would be fun
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: if we just like shared a little bit about ourselves.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: But Kevin had an idea that maybe he should share
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: about me and I should share about him. Okay, so
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: why don't you go first?
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: Ben? This is Ben? Meet Ben. How could I tell
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: you about my best friend? Ben? Ben was born and
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: raised in LA to a father who was a pharmacist,
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: a mother who became a therapist, and you know, a
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: father who loved rock and roll and had this like funky,
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: beautiful feel to his life. Even when I knew him.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: He had this funky, beautiful feel to his life where
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: you could just tell he was like grooving through life.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: And to a mom who just is so deep and
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: gets to the meat of the essence of people, like immediately,
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: this got an.
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: Emotional real quick.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: But no, but also like doesn't fuck around. Yeah, like
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: Bev just like any anything that's real comes out when
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: you're talking about because she sees a little sliver of
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: truth and she like pokes on it. Two brothers, older
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: brother Gavin, younger brother Drew. You went through a lot
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: as a kid. Fast forward to you know, eighteen to
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: twenty four. You had cancer three times over six years,
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: with a year and a half remission in each of those.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: I met you in the third of those three. We
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: were roommates. I don't even think I knew what was
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: going on in your life at that time. Yeah, and
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: I'm so curious even, like something to talk about on
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: the show is like what you were going through during
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: that time in your life, because I think so many
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: people have friends who are going through these really deep
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: things that we really don't have context to. I was nineteen,
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: you were twenty two. I didn't really know what you
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: were going through at that time, but like you got
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: through it and moved to New York and a whole
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: new side if Ben came out in New York in
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: that time in your life. I feel like I'm writing
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: like a biography.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: And you're crushing it. I didn't know where you were
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: gonna go.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: Your Yeah, a whole new side of Ben came out
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: in New York, like this side that wasn't colored by cancer,
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: and you got to actually explore who you were as
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: an adult in that time in your life and like
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: fuck around and have fun and just be like crazy.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: I mean there were times when I went to New
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: York to hang with Ben during this time and he
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: was just on one like you were living a NonStop life.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was so happy to be there.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean came back to Allian and like integrated
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: that with your life, and like you know, obviously you
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: like work wise, You've spent you know, the past many
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: years from class pass to then working with all different
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: types of creators, talent athletes and helping them build like
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: media businesses, which is really cool, everything like Chris Bosh
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: to like celebrity real estate agents, like everything, and at
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: the core of all of it are a really fucking
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: deep guy who loves to talk about his feelings.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: Probably too much, but yeah, as you can see, Yeah, yeah,
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: very in touch.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: I think you've always kind of judged yourself for that,
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: but you're starting to see that it's a gift because
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: you're doing this.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: Wow, meet Ben Teller.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: Hi wow, can we just take a minute. Can we
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: just take a second. I mean I couldn't.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: Have done that. Ben didn't know what we were going
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: to do there. I kind of had the idea like
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: right before this.
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: Wow wow.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: All right, introduced him to Kevin.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: That was amazing. Yeah, okay, that was incredible. All right, everyone,
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: meet my best friend, Kevin heck Matt. Kevin was also
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: born and raised in LA to two amazing, loving parents
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: that I have really got to know over the past
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: five years. Your mom, Sheila, who oh man, just like
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: a ball of energy and life. Like I can see
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: where you get that that Jois de Ville that like,
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: you know that that thing you have, I can see
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: it in your mom. You know, Kevin's mom is probably
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: one of the best piano teachers in Los Angeles. She is,
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: you know, just renowned and loved by everybody. And the
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: best part about that is whenever we go to your house,
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: it is always a show. Sheila always wants Kevin to
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: hop on the piano, and Kevin.
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: Is ends with a piano jam.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: And it's amazing. And and she always wants to get
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: in the piano and.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: You crush it.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: You always say yes. And I love the way she
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: loves you. But I just love how much I've gone
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: to know over over the years. And your dad call
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: me who is not my dentist, They call me he's
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: a great dentist. I've had a few not great ones,
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: and I and he's awesome, and he's Kami is soft
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: and quiet, but when he speaks you can just feel him.
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: And over the past couple years, I've had some really
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: nice conversations with him. And he's somebody that just like
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: loves you so much and then also looks like you
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: so much. Sometimes so when you guys are in the
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: same room taking a picture, like, oh, I see it.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: But your parents are amazing. And I'm just grateful to
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: be included in the Russishana dinners and the Passover satyrs
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: and the Shabbats, like I have Jewish traditions and I'm Ashkenazi,
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: and now I have Sephardic Jewish traditions, and I'm so
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: excited to learn more about those. And your sister Paulina,
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: who is just an angel. She is so happy all
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: the time, and she is so sweet, and my older
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: brother has gotten to know her and adores her. She
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: also is a piano teacher, so she's wonderful. Kevin has
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: a great family. You can just sense that. So Kevin
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: is probably the one person that I think everybody wishes
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: they had it in their life because he just makes
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: every room a little bit brighter and a little bit
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: more fun. And like those are my words, but also
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: other people's words that have told me. Kevin is unique
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: in that he has eight best friends or ten best friends.
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure how many anymore. But you could ask
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: these people who I also love and care for, but
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: they would say, yeah, Keviv's my best friend. And I
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: don't know like many people that could hold that much
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: love and give that much love back to the other
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: person where they would say it as well. I think
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: that's just like one quality that I admire in you
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: so much. You know, when keV got out of college,
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: you had this thing about you of just like wanting
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: to try new things. You traveled to Thailand for six
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: weeks and brought only three pairs of underwear, and we're
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: so good at you know, only washing them a couple
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: of times, and you were so proud, And then I.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: Washed more than a couple of times, but only.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: Kevin's always been always interested in exploring yourself. I think
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: that's just a wonderful quality. You managed talent for a
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: while and helped grow them into like real businesses, like
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: in Q and Col, two people that I've met that
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: you've just completely helped, and they still think so highly
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: of you. And through those people, you've gained experience about yourself,
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: and I think that's just like amazing. You've learned things
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: that they've done that you want to do now, Like
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: you saw them speak publicly, and now you are a
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: public speaker and people are booking you for gigs now
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: because you saw them do it, and you're like, wait,
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: I want to do that. Like I think it's really
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: hard for somebody to see somebody else do something well
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: well and then be like, wait, I want to do that,
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: And then you put in the years. I mean, you
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: are really good at mindfulness, and you have a mindfulness
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: practice and you've gone and studied, and you've become really
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: good at teaching people how to be mindful. You teach
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: meditation classes. Like you're just very well rounded and I
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: look up to I go to you for a lot
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: of things.
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: Got that's been really emotional this week.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: I just love that this is when we're recording this
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: episode because Men has had such an emotional week.
• 10:46
  Speaker 4: For I've just had such an emotional week And it's
• 10:49
  Speaker 4: crazy that we're recording this because I, you know, there's
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: I've had such a hard time whatever this is the podcast.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: I've had such a I've had such.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: A hard time going to people in my life and
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: just opening up to them about shame. Right, I had
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: a lot of shame growing up. I just I just
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: have like you know, bullied or whatever it was. And
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: there's only a few people that I can go to
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: when you're one of them. And so that has been
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: just so valuable for me as a person, right, Like
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: you know, I just I hope other people can have
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: that kind of person in their life where they don't
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: have to hold onto the shame. And You've just been
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: such a good person in me. So anyways, that's keV,
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: that's me. Here we are.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that kind of goes to where this podcast
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: was born out of, like where free therapy as an
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: idea was born out of.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, like it was probably now almost two years ago.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: You and I remember we were sitting on the couch
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: in your apartment one evening and you were going through
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: something like really difficult. I think it had to do
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: with you had like fear in your career. There was
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: like there was something going on there and you were
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: going through it, and I remember we're just like we're
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: going deep, like forty five minutes. I think I shared
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: something that I had gone through around this analogy of
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: the stick and the snake.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: Remember that it's like this uh.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: Beautiful analogy where like when a fear comes up, we
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: think it's like you're on a hike, and you think
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: we respond as if it's a snake and we freak
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: out because it's a snake and we go into this
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: reactive mode when in reality, most of the time it's
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: actually a stick. And you got to learn how to
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: like differentially between the stick and the snake and that
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: was huge for me. And then anyway, we worked through
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: this whole thing and after forty five minutes or you're
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: just being like, man, that that's so good. I feel
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: so much better. I think I said this out loud.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: I was like, dude, you know, it's crazy when you
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: have a friend that you can go deep with and
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: talk to and be vulnerable with and open with, it's
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: kind of like you're getting free therapy. Yeah, it's funny,
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: and it's kind of been our friendship like our whole life. Obviously,
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: we've been in and out of therapy. You know, your
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: mom's at there. You've been going to therapy for years
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: and years and years and years. I've been therapy for
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: like a handful of years. But friendship is one of
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: the greatest forms of therapy. I see. Therapy is healing,
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: Like therapy means healing to me. You know, it's self
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: reflection and healing. It's looking inside and then healing through that.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: And I just over my life, like I don't know
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: where I'd be without my friends, Like they are the
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: reason I am. I've built the life that I have built,
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: that I am the man that I am, I've grown
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: in the ways that I am personally, professionally, everything, And
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: so you know, the show is really us bringing that
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: into the world and then Obviously we're not experts.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: We're definitely not.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: So it's us trying to figure this shit out with
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: an expert.
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, the ideah, the therapist comes into it because
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: we've been having these conversations for years now and we're
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: learning about ourselves, right, we're healing, we're learning about ourselves.
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: But what happens when we actually bring it thereists into
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: the mix, like what more can we learn? What more
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: can we share? What other things aren't we exploring because
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: we're just like, maybe we're pretending to like be theravous
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: with each other, but we're not actually like that. And
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: so I think there is something special about bringing that
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: extra person into the room where it creates a new
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: layer that we haven't experienced totally.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: Even in some of the first episodes we've recorded that
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: are out today, like sitting down with Alexa and talking
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: about you know, we talked about the shit that we
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: go through with family and family dynamics, and we talk
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: about this shit all the time, but then having her
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: break it down in the context of parts work and
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: then walk us through a parts work episode, and then
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: how that applies for everybody and how the different parts
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: of every person are at play. At different times and
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: how to actually help those managers or firefighters. All this
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: stuff she talked about, like the having the frame from
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: an expert to put our chaos into some form of organization.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: So helpful. Yeah, and I'm excited for like every week
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: of this to sit down with someone different.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and then we and then we drop. And that's
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: saying we're gonna drop a few episodes at once, So
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: we just drop this and we're gonna drop Alexa plus
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: one more. In the other episode, we're talking about what
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: it's like to try to find your person today, like
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: we are. I think I can speak for you and
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: many other people, like there is this crazy amount of
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: pressure to try to meet your person, and how do
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: you know if it's your person, how are you going
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: to be with this person forever? Because we're seeing so
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: much I don't know, just like unhappiness or divorce or
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: you know, our older generations maybe like didn't do it
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: the way we want to do it. And so yeah,
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: like what does it mean to be with your person?
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: I don't know. That's just another thing. Yeah, but there's
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: so much.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: And it's also like, as a guy, you think that
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: there are a handful of things that you need to
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: be in the relationship that you want to have the
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: life that you want. And it's like you need to
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: be six and you have a one hundred million dollar
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: exit for like the women of your dreams to love you,
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: and you need to have a six pack and have
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: the perfect chiseled body. Like none of that shit's true,
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: And even I still have the threads of these ideas.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: He's made up stories when in reality, like what do
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: women want.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: Someone who asks follow up questions? That's the best anyone
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: to see that more seller Fernandez bit, Yeah, where he's like, girls,
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: you don't think he wants six to two and in
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: a lot of money when really.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: Follow up questions, you're like, oh god, yeah, like what
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: are the things that are actually important in partnership? And
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: then how do you look at the factors that are
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: actually important to you and in selecting a partner and
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: all that. So anyway, there's so many different ideas. I mean,
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: we're going to go into the dating and relationships, Yeah,
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: career and purpose.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: Self worth, self forth, comparing people on social media. Yeah,
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: family stuff.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: All the family dynamics and how I think it's such
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: a big one is how family dynamics get in the
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: way of all the other stuff because we're just like
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: constantly we replay without being aware of it, and it's
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: just like unconscious script.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: And I think one thing that I think for me
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: is just like one of the most interesting things to
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: talk about is like what a modern day masculine man
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: looks like. Like we're living in this world where obviously,
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: like toxic masculinity is like the social media topic and
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: everyone's talking about it. You know, Scott Gallery wrote that
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: book Notes on being a Man, and he spoke and
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: he's like one in seven men don't have a close friend, right,
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: And so we're living in this world where I don't
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: think a lot of people have the relationship we have.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of guys want the type of
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: relationship we have, but there's not like great examples out there.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: I don't have a ton of great examples growing up.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: And for me, it's going to be so interesting to
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: have conversations about that, but also maybe to share my
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: opinion on it. Like I don't even know if my
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: opinion is right, but I know the kind of qualities
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: that I think are important to a man. But like
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: I don't know if society agrees with me or you know,
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: if these things are normal?
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and what does it actually mean to show up
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: as a man today in a loving and strong and
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: powerful and compassionate way, like all these things that are
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: seemingly paradoxical, which actually are not, like we'd actually we
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: don't have great role models for that right now today,
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: and I'm hoping that we actually get some experts here
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: to help us explore what that means to be a man.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: Probably one of the biggest things that I've grown through
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: in therapy. I'm curious what you think the best thing
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: you've learned in therapy. My answer to that question would
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: be how to handle conflict and how to have healthy
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: conflict instead of avoiding conflict. Yeah, because like for me, dude,
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: my world was very much an environment that was focused
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: around like a lot of codependence sort of woven into
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: the fabric of the Persian Jewish culture and a lot
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: of people pleasing that I I learned, and a lot
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: of avoiding conflict to keep peace around me and learning
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: how to actually have difficult conversations because the strategies that
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: I had. We talked about this a lot in the
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: Dandy episode. The relationshipisode was Danie LeWinn. The strategies that
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: I had to have a successful relationship were horrible strategies.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: It was like keep things good all the time, right,
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: and yeah, big one, I think And I talked with
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: friends about this all the times, like how do you
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: navigate conflict in a healthy way?
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: We're gonna find out.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so many amazing things. Okay, how about you, what
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: is one of the best things that you've learned therapy?
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: Well, I think one of the best things I've learned
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: about myself is that I don't like uncertainty. I just
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: like don't I don't know, it really creates this control
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: part of me, like I have OCD and it just
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: like really makes it like kind of impossible to manage.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: And that's the issue is that I don't have to
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: manage it. And so I've learned that uncertainty can be
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: just really triggering for me and how to just be
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: okay with you know, things unfolding the way that they're
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: meant to. And it's like I've learned why I'm not
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: okay with uncertainty, right, I've learned that because of the
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: things that I've happened and we talked about earlier. Yes,
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: uncertainty is hard. But now that I know, uncertainty is hard,
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: Like what do I do? How do I how do
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: I just live with not controlling? How do I just
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: live with things unfolding? Because mostly they unfold the way
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: they're meant to and I'm okay with it. But in
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: the moment, I just my brain is just like disaster, disaster,
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: I need to control it. What do I do? And
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: so it's probably the biggest thing. And then on top
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: of that, probably with uncertainty comes discomfort tolerance, like uncomfortable feelings.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: How to sit in those? I just sit?
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah? How to just sit in things that make me
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: feel not great? Like knowing that the feeling will pass,
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: but not letting that feeling make me do something. Yeah,
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: that's just something that's been big for me.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: What is the best thing that you think I could
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: learn in my life in therapy? Like what's my biggest
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: growth edge? Right now?
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: I don't know you're gonna ask that, Okay, you know,
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: don't take this the wrong way. I think you have an opportunity.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: Don't take this offensively to be just a little more
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: disciplined in trying to accomplish the things that you're trying
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: to accomplish. I think you. I think you you kind
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: of let yourself slip a little bit, and you're really
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: good at doing what you're saying you're going to do.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: But I'm not sure it lasts as long as it should.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: More structure around my own life, on the stuff that
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: I want in my own life. Yes, okay, I take that.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: I received that.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: How does that does it work? Yeah?
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: I hear you.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: Dude, you're so good at conflict resolution. Now, you're so
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: good at it.
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: You know you don't have to you don't have to
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: less of the blow, I asked. Uh No, I get that.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: I agree with you. It's something that I've probably worked on.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: I gotta continue to work.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: Okay, Well, now I got to ask you the question,
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: what's something that I could.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: Uh, something that you could work on? I think an
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: amazing opportunity for you.
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: Is to.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: Actually practice seeing the future with more faith and actually
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: practice imagining the best case scenarios playing out in your life.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I wish I would love to. I try just
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: to practice it. You've helped me.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: It's not going to be perfect. I practice it too,
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: That's why I just like see it so much.
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, wait, what's that saying the salle time
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: faith over.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: If you look at the future with fear, it's pain.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: If you look at the future with faith, it's joy.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: And your only job is to get out of your
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: fear and into your faith.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: I love that. Yeah, it's a great one and I
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: think about it a lot when I am in those
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: moments of despair, hopelessness, not in pain or whatever.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's great. Yeah, I think she's in the little
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: everyday thing.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: That's fair. Okay, I have a question for you. What's
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: your hope for the podcast?
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: Hmmm. I hope that it opens up people to these
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: kinds of conversations. Yeah, we're probably the extreme of having
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: these kinds of conversations, so I don't expect anyone to
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: go this far. But I have so many friends who
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: don't have these conversations, and I just hope that it
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: opens people up to the possibility of being able to
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: go deeper in their friendships, their relationships with their family. Yeah,
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: it's scary, and often you don't think that other people
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: are open to it, when in reality, every single person
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: that you know is a human being with fear and
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: with pain and with and with shit that they're terrified
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: of with painful experiences with people, they love people, they
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: hate everything, and we forget that we're just like we
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: get in our own world so much that we forget
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: that there's like another person that we're talking to that
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: is scared and that you can actually open up and
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: then they'll be down to open up as well. So
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: that's my like maybe number one thing is that people
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: open up to these kinds of conversations. That we also
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: open people up to all the different kinds of therapy.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: Like you grew up around therapy, so it might be
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: a little different for you, but like I didn't, and
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: I've done like one kind of therapy with my therapist,
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: and I'm actually really curious, even the first handful of
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: episodes you've recorded, I've learned so much about the different
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: types of therapy. Like I just did my first somatic
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: therapy experience yesterday, Nice Yesterday, Nice, and it was amazing.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: It's amazing, And and I've been to therapy for like
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: five years and I'm like, oh shit, this is like
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: a whole different thing. And it's crazy to me. So
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: many people go to a therapist once and they're like,
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: therapy is not for me.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: Right, there's a lot of therapy.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: It's like trying one slice of pizza and being like,
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: pizza is not for me.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: That's a great analogy.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: It's wild. This is what a crazy thing to do.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: And so you had to open people to what's possible
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: to help people understand, like how to find the right therapist,
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: like all these things. Like I just I'm very excited
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: for that, and I'm very excited for this podcast. Yeah,
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: how about you.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: I mean, I I agree with all three of those,
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: So I'm going to take your three. Okay, I'm going
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: to add my own because I actually agree with all
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: of that some Another one for me would be that
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: more young men can see that there's multiple kinds of
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: men in the world, Like I would have done anything
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: to have seen that growing up. So yeah, you can.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: You can cry on a podcast that you're launching to
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: the world. How stupid is that? You know what I mean?
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: They're like, stupid is not. But it's okay. If you're
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: critical of yourself for crying on the first episode of
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: your podcast, ye as well.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah I want, I want. I just want other guys
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: just to see that, like there's not just like a strong,
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: buff dude out there, and that's the version of a man.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: I just want there to be a lot of versions
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: of men out there, and these are two versions, and
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: there's other versions as well. So opening up the world
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: to just like different kinds of role models of men,
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: that would be something that I really hope for this podcast.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: I want this podcast to help people maybe become a
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: little bit more vulnerable and self exploratory in their life,
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: like just feel more okay with not being okay. I
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: think that would be big for me and what else
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: I mean genuinely man, Like, I hope this podcast becomes
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: so big, Like if the rest of my life could
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: be talking about my feelings, I would be so happy.
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: Like I feel like I've been doing this since I
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: was like ten, and the first like ten years, I
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: was like bullied for it. The next like five years,
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: I was like sick, and then the last like five
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: years I've been like accepted for it. And so now
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: I feel like, oh my god, I'm in a world
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: where all my friends know that I like to talk
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: about my feelings. Everyone is totally cool with it, everyone
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: likes me for it. I feel like I have more
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: friends than I've ever had because I'm myself that like,
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: if this is just the future for me. Then wow,
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: I have such a great life. And so you know,
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: it'd be cool if that happened. It'd be cool if
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: like people liked the podcast. It'd be cool if people learned,
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: people listen, if people downloaded, like subscribed, if people did
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: all these things that actually made my dream come true,
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: like that would be cool. Yeah, and so yeah, that's
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: my hope.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: Well, I was just going to say another one is
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: I even don't have a north star for what it
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: means to be a man today for sure, And really
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: that's why a big reason I'm doing this is because
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: I want to actually clarify what it means to be
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: a strong, confident, supportive, you know, provider man in the
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: world today will also being vulnerable and open en, able
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: to express my feelings and able to cry when I
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: you know, am feeling my feelings.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: And look, we're grateful that we get the platform to
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: do it. You know, we're we're super grateful for iHeart
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: for making this podcast possible. We're you know, recording out
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: out of the lighthouse in Venice, who's also making this
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: podcast possible. So I'm excited to go on this journey
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: with you.
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: It's a blessing.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: So we're doing it.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: We're doing it.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: We're doing the podcast. Ye. Follow us on Instagram at
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: free therapy. That's it, just free therapy. Follow us on
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: TikTok Therapy Pod. Listen to the podcast on YouTube, on Apple,
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: on Spotify. All of it will be link below.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: Listen on the high Radio app.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, don't forget that.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: Anywhere you get your podcast, you can listen.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, share it with your friends.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: All of it will post clips. Yeah, and every week
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: we're going to go into different topics as well, so
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: things like dating in relationships. Oh, we already said this.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: Yep, we're done.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: Sorry, we already said this part. Never mind, I think
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: we can do the podcast then then let's have a
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: clean end.
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: No, I like do you want to say? I like that?
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: Okay, thanks for being here. We will see you next week.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: That's our friendship.
• 29:35
  Speaker 4: Why.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: Hey, thanks for listening. We appreciate you.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: If you enjoyed this episode and us embarrassing ourselves and
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: talking about our feelings, you are definitely going to like
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: everything else.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: Follow on on Instagram at free therapy and we'll see
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: you next time.