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Transcript

The Last Great Baseball Trade · Sports History Network

• 0:21
  Scott, we're back.
• 0:23
  How long have we been gone?
• 0:25
  It feels like it's been a while.
• 0:26
  It feels like it's been a good bit.
• 0:27
  But that's okay because life happens.
• 0:29
  That's kind of what we talked about.
• 0:30
  Did you ever get annoyed at your life that it was preventing us from doing this at any point?
• 0:36
  I did a couple of times.
• 0:37
  I'm not gonna lie.
• 0:38
  Yeah.
• 0:38
  I think, you know, knowing what the.
• 0:40
  What they were going to be like, the topics, for instance.
• 0:43
  Yes.
• 0:43
  Because we've been talking and then getting into this, like, hey, I was watching games from the 90 World Series, which we're going to do at some point.
• 0:51
  Or, you know, I listened to the Steinbrenner book by our good friend.
• 0:59
  What's his name?
• 1:00
  You have to tell me every time.
• 1:01
  The New York Post guy.
• 1:02
  Right.
• 1:03
  Yeah.
• 1:03
  I apologize.
• 1:04
  Yeah, we'll bring it up during this time.
• 1:06
  Yeah, we will.
• 1:07
  But, yeah, and I would hear something, and it's like, I just want to talk to Derek about this right now, you know, but then it'd be like, ah, then that'll, you know, use all our content.
• 1:15
  We can't do that.
• 1:16
  It's.
• 1:18
  It's.
• 1:21
  I found myself a couple of times very similarly, but also, like when I was doing things I didn't want to do during the summer, and I would.
• 1:29
  I mean, every adult male in their 40s and 50s that has a family feels this.
• 1:34
  Yeah.
• 1:34
  You always start thinking about the things you'd rather be doing at that moment than, like, cleaning out the garage or, you know, pulling weeds in the backyard.
• 1:43
  So, like, there were times where I was just like, God, it's been like two and a half months or two months.
• 1:48
  How long has it been for real?
• 1:49
  I think it's been.
• 1:50
  I think it's been a couple months.
• 1:51
  Yeah.
• 1:52
  Early.
• 1:52
  We also.
• 1:52
  We've got some fun stuff coming down.
• 1:55
  And that was.
• 1:56
  It's like you teased, like, basically.
• 1:57
  But.
• 1:58
  Well, and we have fun stuff happening.
• 1:59
  Like I said, it wasn't like.
• 2:01
  It wasn't like life was happening.
• 2:03
  Like one of us was fighting for our lives against a disease or something like that.
• 2:07
  It was good moments in life happening.
• 2:09
  So, I mean, first world problems as the.
• 2:11
  Well, even, like.
• 2:12
  Yeah.
• 2:13
  I don't even know.
• 2:13
  I mean.
• 2:14
  Yeah, some problems in that we couldn't podcast, but a lot of good things happening.
• 2:18
  So.
• 2:19
  Well, can this episode in the next three or four.
• 2:23
  I.
• 2:24
  Now let me take that back.
• 2:25
  We've got a special guest that will tease at the end of this episode, and that's going to happen like, three Weeks got confirmation on that, by the way.
• 2:32
  We're good to go.
• 2:33
  Nice.
• 2:37
  But I wanted to do a bit off the top to bring us back because everything's baseball.
• 2:42
  And I was in the bookstore the other day, really gotten into the photography game, really gotten into photography books.
• 2:49
  And I stumbled across the Sports Illustrated baseball.
• 2:52
  The baseball book.
• 2:53
  It's a coffee table book.
• 2:55
  I don't know if you've ever perused this, Scott.
• 2:58
  I'm going to get up, I'm going to give it to you, and I don't want you to open it yet, but there is a clear bookmark there.
• 3:03
  Okay, got it.
• 3:04
  And when I was at times thinking about, you know, that I'd rather be podcasting with you during some of life's grinding moments.
• 3:14
  Yeah.
• 3:15
  I was thinking back to our first seven episodes.
• 3:19
  Or eight.
• 3:19
  Are we on seven?
• 3:20
  I think this is eight.
• 3:21
  This is eight.
• 3:22
  Because I think we talked about making it to seven last time.
• 3:24
  Right.
• 3:26
  So my thought was, my favorite moment in the seven that we've done is when we went to see Tim Brown and we met Tim Brown and we were at the table.
• 3:38
  We've told this story with Alan, but it was it like being across from you as he.
• 3:45
  You asked him who his favorite player was and he said his favorite player was.
• 3:52
  New York Mets, Bud Harrelson.
• 3:53
  Sorry, Bud Harrelson.
• 3:54
  Yeah.
• 3:55
  So you two had a moment at that point in time, and I see you kind of raise up a little bit because Bud Harrelson's probably highlight of his career for most fans is that he got into a fight
• 4:08
  with your favorite player of all time.
• 4:10
  Sure.
• 4:10
  Yeah.
• 4:11
  Pete Rose.
• 4:12
  And you let him know.
• 4:13
  In fact, you said, did you like it when Pete Rose kicked his ass?
• 4:18
  Who was your favorite player?
• 4:19
  Tim Brown.
• 4:21
  You know, Bud.
• 4:22
  And you went, did you like it when Pete Rose kicked it like it.
• 4:25
  You.
• 4:26
  It was like you guys had a script like it was ready to go in Pete Rose history.
• 4:32
  So fast forward three months.
• 4:34
  I'm in the bookstore, I'm holding the baseball book.
• 4:38
  I open it up, and then I turn one page.
• 4:41
  And if you will be so kind as to go to the bookmark page in that book and see what the first.
• 4:48
  The second image I saw in the book.
• 4:51
  It is a gorgeous color picture that really is the fight.
• 4:58
  Yeah.
• 5:00
  And what's really great about this is it's literally across the page from Nolan putting Ventura into a headlock, which was, again, a lot of the discussion that we had with him.
• 5:13
  So.
• 5:14
  But I would have had no understanding, preconceived notion about that fight until that moment of my life where I got to see you.
• 5:25
  Bo up on.
• 5:26
  Yes.
• 5:27
  Nolan Rider, Tim Brown.
• 5:30
  Well, it is great.
• 5:31
  You know, it's one of those moments where, like, if some.
• 5:34
  Like when it's someone like Bud Harrelson, because what are you gonna do with that?
• 5:38
  The norm.
• 5:39
  Like.
• 5:40
  But if you had that.
• 5:41
  I think that's the bowing up was the immediate.
• 5:44
  Like, oh, my God, I've got a Bud Harrelson moment.
• 5:46
  You know?
• 5:47
  And it was just this great moment where I can remember, I feel like seeing video on television with my grandfather, who was, along with my dad, the biggest influences on my sports fandom, especially baseball and why I like
• 6:01
  the Reds and Pete, which, again, I don't want to say I'm the biggest Pete fan or he's my favorite player of all time, but, you know, there's.
• 6:09
  It's a weird.
• 6:10
  It's like Saying you loved O.J.
• 6:11
  Right?
• 6:12
  I mean, it's like Pete's.
• 6:14
  It's a different degree, but same.
• 6:16
  Same route.
• 6:17
  But nonetheless.
• 6:18
  Yeah, that was.
• 6:19
  The excitement was just like, oh, there's this great Bud Harrelson moment that ties into one of my favorites and most memorable.
• 6:27
  I was not even born when that happened in 1973, but the number of times I watched it, because it was just, you know, it was the fire Pete played with.
• 6:37
  So a lot of fun.
• 6:39
  It's.
• 6:40
  That's awesome.
• 6:40
  It's a great picture.
• 6:42
  It is.
• 6:42
  It's a great pick.
• 6:43
  And I just literally.
• 6:47
  And then that, you know, knowing that we were going to get to podcast, that really made me incredibly happy.
• 6:52
  Man, these books are awesome.
• 6:54
  I love anything like this.
• 6:56
  Like, it's.
• 6:57
  It's a.
• 6:58
  It's a.
• 6:59
  A lost or not lost, but it's an.
• 7:02
  Like, just whatever you're doing for the next hour, forget it.
• 7:05
  Exactly.
• 7:06
  Yeah.
• 7:06
  Because each picture is a.
• 7:08
  Just a rabbit hole.
• 7:10
  Oh, my gosh.
• 7:11
  So.
• 7:11
  And it's just the most gorgeous, like, photography.
• 7:14
  It is in there, too.
• 7:15
  Like, it really is.
• 7:16
  All those great SI photographers over the years.
• 7:20
  I don't know what your.
• 7:21
  This book came out, and I'm not going to try and look right now, but I feel like this is.
• 7:29
  This book, to some variation, was under the Christmas tree every year of my life for me.
• 7:37
  Yeah.
• 7:37
  From about the age of six till.
• 7:41
  Yeah, maybe 26.
• 7:43
  I feel like there were certain families that.
• 7:45
  The coffee table book was really revered.
• 7:49
  Yes.
• 7:49
  And that was a.
• 7:50
  It's easy.
• 7:51
  Easy Christmas automatic Christmas gift.
• 7:54
  Yes.
• 7:55
  And I feel like when you go to the bookstore and you look the.
• 8:01
  That.
• 8:01
  Heyday, in the 80s 90s when those were the most, you know, popular.
• 8:06
  That those bookshelves are filled with it and each one of them is inscribed.
• 8:11
  That book right there is inscribed Merry Christmas.
• 8:13
  Oh, my gosh.
• 8:14
  At the beginning.
• 8:15
  I love it.
• 8:15
  It's written Merry Christmas.
• 8:17
  Merry Christmas, Christopher.
• 8:19
  I just enjoy.
• 8:20
  I love that sometimes you can find like a autographed book that they've just missed.
• 8:26
  Yeah.
• 8:27
  But, yeah, there's.
• 8:28
  There's.
• 8:28
  Every one of those books in a used bookstore now is inscribed.
• 8:32
  I look that way.
• 8:33
  If I go to half price books or like the one in Denton or whatever, that's immediately.
• 8:37
  If I grab one where I'm interested, especially if it's like this, like a sports book, I'm going straight to the beginning and hoping that there's an amazing, like, inscription in there from like a grandfather to a grandson or
• 8:50
  a father to a son, or vice versa.
• 8:52
  And I just love that stuff.
• 8:54
  And when we were up in Bentonville during our podcast hiatus, one of the things that got in the way of podcasting was we went into this cool used bookstore there and it was like, you know, like some used
• 9:08
  books.
• 9:08
  There's half price books.
• 9:10
  Yeah.
• 9:11
  And then there's like, even cheaper because they're like, almost like more like just Goodwill.
• 9:16
  Right.
• 9:16
  But then there's also the high end, and they have like this whole section that's under lock and key because it's like, oh, well, that's like a first edition and that's actually worth like fifteen hundred dollars or whatever, you
• 9:28
  know?
• 9:28
  Yeah.
• 9:28
  Well, they had this one section that was all autographed by author.
• 9:33
  Yes.
• 9:34
  And the book that Jackie Robinson's daughter wrote.
• 9:39
  Interesting.
• 9:39
  Was there and signed by her.
• 9:41
  Yeah.
• 9:42
  And I really was kicking myself as we were leaving Arkansas that I didn't go back and buy it.
• 9:48
  Huh.
• 9:48
  I think it was $80.
• 9:49
  Oh, wow.
• 9:51
  And it wasn't like, it was literally just a signature.
• 9:54
  There wasn't a cool inscription or anything like that.
• 9:57
  Yeah.
• 9:58
  To Gladys Glad.
• 9:59
  But I kept thinking, like, that's really cool.
• 10:01
  It didn't say, to Derek, thank you for showing me my dad's socks.
• 10:05
  Yes.
• 10:06
  Didn't have any mention of Derek and his socks or anything like that, but nonetheless, yeah, these are awesome, great books.
• 10:15
  Anyway, I just wanted to.
• 10:16
  I didn't want to completely derail what we've got on tap, but.
• 10:20
  No.
• 10:21
  Well, this book, the Sports Illustrated, the baseball book, they have a football book too, too.
• 10:26
  Yeah.
• 10:27
  I think they have a basketball book.
• 10:28
  Yes.
• 10:29
  And they're just like, you can get them for under 10 bucks.
• 10:32
  And it's just.
• 10:34
  Those are just gorgeous.
• 10:35
  Like, it's.
• 10:36
  Those are awesome.
• 10:37
  This was always a huge time sink for me.
• 10:40
  These types of books.
• 10:41
  The other one, which did you ever get, like the.
• 10:45
  The baseball encyclopedias to where they were like triple this size, and it was literally every player's size, the back of their baseball card in terms of the knowledge you would get for everyone in the history.
• 10:58
  And I would just devour those.
• 11:00
  Like, I would literally read them like books.
• 11:03
  I would not pass a player often.
• 11:05
  Yeah.
• 11:06
  And I would, you know, some of them I'd shoot past, but I'd at least look like the name.
• 11:10
  Where were they?
• 11:11
  What years?
• 11:11
  And there were definitely things I was looking for, but those.
• 11:15
  And then, like, it would have the box score from every playoff and World Series game all the way back.
• 11:20
  Oh, my gosh.
• 11:21
  What was really interesting is that our town that we live in right now had a pretty well stocked public library.
• 11:31
  Yeah.
• 11:31
  And one of the things they had when I was young, like under 10, was they, for some.
• 11:38
  Some.
• 11:38
  Some way, somehow had the Bill James books.
• 11:42
  Yes.
• 11:42
  Like in the mid-80s.
• 11:44
  And that was like, you know, unheard of.
• 11:47
  It was.
• 11:47
  And somehow they had them, but they were reference books.
• 11:50
  Couldn't check them out.
• 11:51
  So I would get dropped off at the library and I would sit there at the table because that's the only way I could look at the Bill James.
• 11:59
  I didn't know what the hell I was reading or what I was.
• 12:01
  But there were numbers everywhere.
• 12:03
  There was all these essays about this is how you should look at baseball.
• 12:06
  This is how everybody should look at baseball now.
• 12:09
  Like, it was, you know, it was very over my head and overwhelming, but I just remember going, there's 1500 pages of numbers and essays and, you know, just rabbit holes here.
• 12:20
  Yes.
• 12:21
  Pre.
• 12:21
  Pre Internet rabbit holes.
• 12:22
  Like that would have.
• 12:24
  Like, I just went and just.
• 12:25
  I always asked for the Bill James book.
• 12:27
  Yep, me too.
• 12:28
  I did, too.
• 12:29
  I still have several and I even went back and bought more not long ago.
• 12:33
  I got one other book that I got really into for a while, and that was the Texas Rangers have a local reporter, Jamie Newberg, who you're very familiar with, but maybe those listening that aren't.
• 12:45
  And Newberg would do the Newberg Report, which was essentially like a daily email, if not every other.
• 12:51
  Like, it was basically like a blog.
• 12:53
  Yeah.
• 12:53
  And then he would.
• 12:55
  All he would do is consolidate that, add a nice forward, a nice afterward, maybe a little bit.
• 13:00
  I think he would.
• 13:01
  Yeah, I think he would add something about maybe the prospects.
• 13:03
  Yes.
• 13:04
  But he would always have somebody big do the forward.
• 13:06
  Like John Daniels.
• 13:07
  Yes.
• 13:08
  Yeah.
• 13:08
  Like Nolan.
• 13:09
  I think Nolan Ryan did one.
• 13:10
  I think so, too.
• 13:11
  I've got probably six, seven of those in there, too.
• 13:13
  Yeah.
• 13:14
  And it was the thing.
• 13:15
  The thing was I loved the daily email so much that I was just like, I just want to own them forever.
• 13:21
  And especially when you go like that Rangers period from like, 0708 through 1314.
• 13:27
  Yeah.
• 13:29
  I mean.
• 13:29
  And that was his peak power time, I felt like.
• 13:31
  And it coincided with the Rangers being really good.
• 13:34
  Getting back to back.
• 13:35
  World Series was all pre podcast, too.
• 13:37
  Yeah.
• 13:37
  I mean, I mean, so basically that was just.
• 13:41
  It was a way for you.
• 13:42
  He, like, he would organize all the trade rumors.
• 13:44
  He would.
• 13:45
  He would really dive into contracts and why decisions were made.
• 13:49
  And, like, he really opened up the.
• 13:53
  The game for you.
• 13:54
  And if you don't know, you know, he's.
• 13:56
  He's probably number one Texas Ranger fan, I would think.
• 14:00
  Like, I would have to say so,.
• 14:02
  You know, and when he.
• 14:04
  When they won the World Series, he went.
• 14:06
  And then the video.
• 14:07
  I was fine after we won the World Series until I saw the video of him crying.
• 14:11
  Yeah.
• 14:12
  Because he was in the stands and there was a buddy next to him, and his daughter posted it.
• 14:17
  And that was like 30, 35, 45 minutes after the game.
• 14:20
  Yeah, I was.
• 14:21
  I was fine.
• 14:21
  I was just happy.
• 14:22
  I was like, we finally got one.
• 14:23
  This is great.
• 14:24
  And I just, you know, was just going through Twitter pictures and all that stuff.
• 14:28
  And then when I saw his, I started.
• 14:29
  I was thinking about trips with dad.
• 14:32
  Old Arlington.
• 14:33
  Yeah, yeah.
• 14:34
  The heartbreak of 11.
• 14:35
  And, like, all that stuff you could see in his video, you know, everything that came before it, all the nights writing the blogs, all that stuff.
• 14:43
  And then I got to talk to him about it at one of the winter festivals.
• 14:48
  Yes.
• 14:48
  And I just, like, for 10 minutes,.
• 14:50
  I was just like, so this was recent.
• 14:52
  This was the last couple years.
• 14:53
  This was after the world series, so 24.
• 14:55
  It had been like January of 24.
• 14:57
  Wow.
• 14:57
  And he videoed me because I told him.
• 15:01
  I was like, hey.
• 15:02
  And I basically said the exact same thing.
• 15:04
  And he goes.
• 15:04
  He looked at me.
• 15:05
  Let me finish.
• 15:06
  And he goes, hey, do you mind saying all of that again and let me video it?
• 15:09
  Because his daughter was the one that reposted.
• 15:11
  She lives up in New York.
• 15:13
  And he recorded me for, like, 90 seconds.
• 15:16
  Tell this story.
• 15:17
  Were you crying?
• 15:17
  Retelling.
• 15:19
  I definitely would have started crying.
• 15:20
  No, because I was getting autographs and stuff.
• 15:22
  I'm nearly crying right now.
• 15:25
  I was just Happy.
• 15:26
  Like, I was just like.
• 15:27
  And he.
• 15:27
  And I.
• 15:27
  He was like, hey, if you could like, say, I think your name's Erica.
• 15:30
  He's like, hey, if you could say this to Erica.
• 15:32
  Yeah.
• 15:32
  So I was like, hey, Erica, my name's Derek.
• 15:34
  You know, I'm here with you dad at the winter festival.
• 15:36
  And I.
• 15:36
  I told the story and.
• 15:38
  But he was.
• 15:38
  It was that.
• 15:39
  It was like dad daughter pride, you know, there was like some type of.
• 15:42
  But anyway, I remember going to a few of like the Newberg nights or his.
• 15:47
  When he would release the book, kind of.
• 15:49
  He would do a few.
• 15:50
  Yeah.
• 15:50
  And I, like, I was so, so awestruck by him.
• 15:55
  Yeah.
• 15:55
  That he came by at some point.
• 15:58
  I was at a table with my buddy Jason and.
• 16:02
  And he came by and kind of tried to talk with us, and I was just like a blubbering idiot.
• 16:07
  I think I was just like,.
• 16:10
  Really?
• 16:12
  Rangers your emails, Elvis.
• 16:13
  I love them.
• 16:14
  I love you.
• 16:14
  And.
• 16:16
  And he would always do giveaways.
• 16:19
  And so.
• 16:20
  Oh, yeah, at one of those, I won a John Wetland autograph baseball.
• 16:25
  And so when I went up there to get it and it was like maybe 30 minutes after he'd come by our table, so I think he recognized.
• 16:33
  Hey.
• 16:33
  I was just kind of trying to small talk with this guy or whatever, you know, and he said something to me or whatever, you know, that kind of tied it all back.
• 16:41
  But I just remember thinking, like, this guy is so put together.
• 16:44
  Yeah.
• 16:45
  You know, like he's so like on top of it.
• 16:48
  And he wasn't awestruck by me.
• 16:50
  Right.
• 16:51
  Yeah.
• 16:52
  We went.
• 16:54
  We went to one of those Newburgh nights and I was with Nikki, my girlfriend, and I won an 8 by 10 Elvis autograph.
• 17:05
  And I wanted Beltrae.
• 17:07
  Adrian Beltray is my all time favorite baseball player.
• 17:09
  Yeah, there was a baseball there.
• 17:11
  Adrian's got a crisp, clean signature.
• 17:13
  Love it.
• 17:13
  Gorgeous brand new baseball right across the sweet spot.
• 17:17
  I was really.
• 17:18
  All my eggs were in that basket.
• 17:20
  Not didn't win.
• 17:21
  I was like, man, Elvis, 8 by 10.
• 17:23
  You can't be sad.
• 17:24
  I'm gonna put that in a frame.
• 17:25
  I'm gonna love it.
• 17:27
  And it's done.
• 17:28
  Like the.
• 17:29
  The event's done.
• 17:30
  And I was gonna go down and just shake Jamie's hand and say thank you.
• 17:34
  And as I'm walking down and waiting in line like this sealed the deal for my love for my girlfriend, she disappears for like five minutes.
• 17:46
  And without me knowing, she had gone to the lady that won the Adrian Beltre ball and somehow convinced her to trade the 8 by 10 Elvis Andrus for the Adrian Bell trait ball.
• 18:01
  I was just like, oh, my gosh,.
• 18:03
  I think we're in love.
• 18:04
  How'd that happen?
• 18:05
  I don't know.
• 18:06
  What's that other person thinking?
• 18:07
  I mean, I love Elvis.
• 18:09
  Elvis.
• 18:09
  They were season ticket holder and they had done the things like you had done where they got to go through the assembly line and get autographs.
• 18:17
  And she said, elvis is my favorite player.
• 18:19
  Like, it.
• 18:19
  It was just.
• 18:19
  Yeah.
• 18:20
  It just was very lucky.
• 18:22
  Elvis is probably easily my top three.
• 18:25
  Right.
• 18:26
  Rangers of all time.
• 18:27
  I would put Adrian one and.
• 18:30
  But still, I was like, I don't think I'd make that trade if I.
• 18:32
  Was her, but I would have.
• 18:33
  I mean, I was a total coward.
• 18:35
  There was no way.
• 18:36
  Yeah.
• 18:36
  It's not like we ran a card show either where I could barter.
• 18:39
  Yeah.
• 18:39
  So anyway.
• 18:40
  But it was fun.
• 18:41
  And yeah, we've been together ever since.
• 18:43
  And it was because of that baseball.
• 18:45
  Scott.
• 18:45
  Yeah.
• 18:46
  That's awesome.
• 18:46
  That is awesome.
• 18:49
  Should we segue to one?
• 18:50
  Yeah, we probably should.
• 18:51
  I was just trying to think of, like, I was about to, like, mention an Adrian Beltray trade and then.
• 18:56
  Yeah, that from.
• 18:57
  Oh, what are some of the great.
• 18:59
  I.
• 19:00
  We probably are gonna have to bookmark this moment for when we start talking about the topic at hand.
• 19:05
  Exactly.
• 19:06
  And that's all right, though.
• 19:07
  This is it.
• 19:08
  I think, Scott, I'm going to go out on a limb.
• 19:10
  I think this is the last, like, the last great baseball trade.
• 19:14
  Definitely.
• 19:15
  I.
• 19:15
  I would agree with you on that.
• 19:17
  There's definitely been some big ones since, but they didn't, like, most of them didn't have the star power that this had at that moment.
• 19:27
  They, like, worked out well.
• 19:29
  You know, like there's like a CC getting traded to Milwaukee or something.
• 19:35
  And Brantley's on the other hand.
• 19:37
  Well, Brantley wasn't who he became at that point yet, you know, or whatever, but this was one that was just giant.
• 19:43
  And it's one of those deals where I can remember it still.
• 19:48
  Yeah.
• 19:48
  You know, not to get too far ahead of ourselves, but trade we're talking about happened at the winter meetings.
• 19:54
  December 5th of 1990.
• 19:57
  Winter meetings were at Chicago, and the Toronto Blue Jays traded Fred McGriff and Tony Fernandez to the San Diego Padres for Joe Carter and a very young Roberto Alomar.
• 20:11
  Young, but still already great.
• 20:13
  But I mean, he had showed up.
• 20:14
  He showed up on the scene at 20.
• 20:16
  He was 23.
• 20:17
  He was about to enter some arbitration years.
• 20:20
  I think the.
• 20:21
  You know, and we'll get into the details but the, the thought process that he would not stick around or it would take a lot of money to get him to stick around, I think kind of fueled this.
• 20:30
  And basically, you know, like this was originally going to be a Joe Carter for Fred McGriff swap.
• 20:37
  Yep.
• 20:38
  And Pat Gillick, the Toronto Blue Jays GM, was like, I think I want Roberto, I think I want a 23 year old superstar at second base.
• 20:47
  How can we make this happen?
• 20:49
  And he tried to make it even bigger than that.
• 20:51
  Yeah, he tried to get Randy Myers on that trade too.
• 20:55
  And, and there was a little bit of hesitation and he thought, I'm very.
• 20:58
  Glad they pushed it because it's just a nice clean two for two with four superstars.
• 21:02
  Well, and it was gonna be another pitcher going back.
• 21:05
  It was going to become 3 for 3 from what I understand.
• 21:07
  But nonetheless.
• 21:08
  Yeah, it's just like I can remember when that trade happened, like almost jaw dropped and like, does this, how does this happen?
• 21:17
  You know what I mean?
• 21:18
  And especially feel like maybe it was even more prevalent in the 80s, even though there's not many examples of it now.
• 21:28
  It feels like all trades are super lopsided in terms of immediate stud for.
• 21:34
  But also cash is involved.
• 21:36
  Yeah.
• 21:36
  Tons of prospects like it just.
• 21:38
  This is a good, clean, old fashioned baseball trade and probably the last one we've had.
• 21:43
  And to hear, you know, the whole thing happened in like 24 hours or whatever.
• 21:47
  It was such a fast movie day of the winter meetings.
• 21:50
  Yeah.
• 21:51
  And I think it kind of ruined winter meetings moving forward because, you know, especially now, like free agency and baseball starts at the beginning of November.
• 22:03
  These winter meetings are like a week, two weeks into December most times.
• 22:08
  And it's like nothing happens for the five weeks prior to that.
• 22:13
  Winter meetings get here and we're like, oh, there's going to be a lot of signings, maybe some trades.
• 22:17
  Yeah.
• 22:17
  And then it's just like Scott Feldman signed with the Cubs one year, 750 grand.
• 22:24
  And yet MLB Network then has to talk about Scott Feldman for 48 hours until they can get back to something else or whatever.
• 22:30
  And then you hear like they'll bring people on.
• 22:33
  They'll be like, well, you know, and then these guys will sign in February and it's like, you know, Jeff, Jeff Passon will do an article and it'll be like, yeah, the, the tracks were really begun to be late
• 22:45
  at the winter meetings.
• 22:46
  It's like the most frustrating thing you've ever heard.
• 22:48
  Yeah.
• 22:49
  But there's also some interesting.
• 22:52
  Like the reason these happened is because of Other superstars.
• 22:56
  Sure.
• 22:57
  Like, the reason the trade happened is.
• 22:58
  Is like the Padres were losing Jack Clark in free agency.
• 23:03
  Huge.
• 23:03
  Jack Clark.
• 23:04
  Yeah.
• 23:04
  I loved watching Jack Clark for the.
• 23:07
  When the Rangers played Jack Clark.
• 23:09
  Yeah.
• 23:09
  He always scared me kind of.
• 23:11
  Yeah.
• 23:11
  He just looked like a mean sob.
• 23:13
  Yeah.
• 23:14
  And then Toronto had John Ollerud ready to go.
• 23:18
  So that kind of.
• 23:19
  It was a need, a need for need deal.
• 23:21
  But also the kind of the reason why these things happened, the side pieces, losing Jack Clark, John Ollerud about to start his prestigious career.
• 23:33
  But just.
• 23:35
  I.
• 23:35
  I don't know.
• 23:36
  Also, the Padres felt like they could lose Roberto Alomar because they had.
• 23:42
  And I hadn't seen this name.
• 23:43
  Scott, you know who I'm gonna say?
• 23:45
  Bip Roberts.
• 23:46
  Yeah.
• 23:47
  Yeah.
• 23:47
  So I read that at some point,.
• 23:49
  Going, they had Bip Roberts and Joey Cora ready to go.
• 23:52
  Yeah.
• 23:53
  And it felt like either one of them could play second base.
• 23:55
  Unbelievable.
• 23:56
  Alomar, really, like, when you look back on this now, he's the.
• 24:01
  The prize of the whole deal for sure.
• 24:03
  Wouldn't you say?
• 24:03
  And I mean, that's crazy because Fred McGriff, also a Hall of Famer, amazing career.
• 24:09
  Yeah.
• 24:10
  Joe Carter, you could argue one of the greatest moments in baseball history belongs to the bat of Joe Carter.
• 24:18
  And he was a stud.
• 24:20
  I mean, he just had.
• 24:21
  But Scott, the year before, the year he.
• 24:25
  Before he got dealt.
• 24:26
  Yeah.
• 24:26
  Did you look at his war?
• 24:27
  It was minus 1.7 his entire career.
• 24:31
  War is not that great, which is kind of crazy.
• 24:34
  He played 162 games that year, as he often did.
• 24:37
  This was a line.
• 24:39
  24 homers, 79 runs, 115 RBIs and 22 stolen bases.
• 24:44
  He did hit.232 and had a.290 OBP.
• 24:50
  But like, in his O, his OPS plus was 85, which meant he was well below average.
• 24:55
  Yes.
• 24:56
  Like just the average hitter.
• 24:58
  But like, it takes a lot of.
• 25:01
  It's got to be.
• 25:02
  And I wish I'd have done a little bit of like putting Claude to work on this, to have a season, though, where literally it's like he.
• 25:10
  This guy cost you two games this year.
• 25:12
  Yeah.
• 25:13
  And he has 115 ribies.
• 25:15
  Yes.
• 25:16
  I mean, that just probably the scoring environment, I guess.
• 25:19
  I don't know.
• 25:20
  Like.
• 25:20
  Or just his position, because the next year he had a year that was better, but not just like overwhelmingly better and he was worth almost five or.
• 25:29
  Yeah, yeah.
• 25:32
  But like, his career is.
• 25:33
  Is interesting.
• 25:34
  I feel like.
• 25:35
  Think about the fact that you could turn a guy who just like, basically It's Chris Davis, Baltimore, former Ranger great Baltimore first baseman.
• 25:44
  You know, he was getting paid $30 million a year to have minus two war seasons.
• 25:49
  Basically they took Chris Davis and turned him into Fred McGriff and Tony Fernandez.
• 25:56
  Like, if you look back at it, it almost makes sense to get rid of Joe Carter.
• 26:00
  They would have to add somebody like Roberto Alamore.
• 26:03
  Yes.
• 26:03
  Just because of like talent wise.
• 26:05
  Like I wonder too if like.
• 26:08
  And they would never defame Joe Carter.
• 26:10
  And I couldn't find anything like in my research, my brief research.
• 26:15
  But like you kind of wonder.
• 26:17
  And I know they didn't have WAR and things like that, the advanced analytics.
• 26:20
  He was still a guy that hit 24 homers.
• 26:22
  Sure.
• 26:22
  Drove in 115 runs like that.
• 26:24
  Still, still was.
• 26:25
  But I do wonder if the scouts saw something or if he was just, I mean he literally went from Cleveland to San Diego to Toronto in, in a three year span.
• 26:35
  Yeah.
• 26:35
  So like he, you know, I'm just.
• 26:38
  If he was just miserably unhappy, he still drove in 115 runs.
• 26:42
  Like.
• 26:43
  Yeah.
• 26:44
  And I think, I wonder in the, in the.
• 26:45
  What I'm trying to say is in the front offices where these whispers happening, like we've got to do something about Joe Carter because he's obviously a subpar.
• 26:55
  Like he might be on a down slope.
• 26:57
  Yeah.
• 26:58
  Which I mean from basically 34 on.
• 27:00
  You know, he stuck around though, for a long time.
• 27:03
  He did, he did.
• 27:05
  You know, Tony Fernandez higher career WAR than Joe Carter.
• 27:08
  Yeah.
• 27:09
  And Fernandez one of those guys.
• 27:10
  Like he's the underrated deal of this entire trade as well.
• 27:15
  I mean, Fernandez had a really great career.
• 27:19
  But yeah.
• 27:20
  Joe Carter being one of those guys where I think, when you just think Joe Carter, like my mind was borderline hall of Famer, just not quite good enough to make it in.
• 27:32
  And it's kind of when you look at the actual numbers, there were some really consistent seasons in there where he played almost every game every year and was over 100 RBIs.
• 27:43
  But.
• 27:45
  Yeah.
• 27:45
  I mean, when you look at the advanced stuff, it's like, man, he really wasn't that special of a producer.
• 27:55
  Right.
• 27:55
  But I don't know, he talked a little bit about getting out of Cleveland.
• 27:59
  Yeah.
• 28:00
  And that he felt like even in San Diego, like that he, his personality wasn't appreciated.
• 28:08
  Yes.
• 28:08
  And that he was a very happy player, a very positive.
• 28:14
  And that, that's like.
• 28:16
  And he's also in it.
• 28:17
  I did.
• 28:18
  You can see this in his statistics.
• 28:20
  Is very streaky hitter.
• 28:22
  I mean he would go on a tear, but he would have an equally downside in that as well.
• 28:27
  And that it was not seen well by the managers.
• 28:33
  He was around in coaches.
• 28:35
  Right.
• 28:35
  That he was still laughing and enjoying himself even though he was hitting.108 over the last, you know, 30 games.
• 28:42
  One of our favorite all time baseball pranks is because of Joe Carter when he drove.
• 28:46
  Is it Derek Hills?
• 28:48
  I think Bell, Derek Hills.
• 28:50
  Yeah.
• 28:50
  No, I think you're right.
• 28:51
  Is that right?
• 28:52
  Yes.
• 28:53
  Derek Bell.
• 28:54
  It was in Toronto.
• 28:55
  It was a young Derek.
• 28:56
  Yeah.
• 28:56
  Yeah.
• 28:57
  But drove his brand new like neon green Explorer.
• 29:01
  Yeah.
• 29:02
  Onto the field and gave it away.
• 29:05
  Yes.
• 29:06
  And Derek, they've got a shot of Derek in the dugout looking like he's going to cry.
• 29:11
  Yeah.
• 29:11
  Like he's, he's looks like he's about to sob.
• 29:14
  Yeah.
• 29:15
  Like he probably paid cash for it.
• 29:16
  He's probably like this is the most proud.
• 29:18
  It was at the height of the Explorer craze too, I feel like.
• 29:21
  Oh yeah.
• 29:22
  It took you a long time to get an Explorer back then and before.
• 29:25
  Derek Bell probably got paid paid, you know what I mean?
• 29:28
  Like he had, he was, he was coming into it.
• 29:30
  But another guy that probably experienced some bigger paychecks to have down the road.
• 29:34
  I was a little off on Derek Hill.
• 29:36
  He is technically in baseball right now.
• 29:39
  Derek Hill is Derek Hill.
• 29:41
  There's a Derek Hill that's played the last six years.
• 29:43
  Nice,.
• 29:46
  Quick, quick side as I look up, Derek Bell.
• 29:49
  Derrick Bell had a five point war season in 1998 for Houston.
• 29:53
  Oh, why'd he do that?
• 29:55
  I don't know.
• 29:55
  Waste it there.
• 29:56
  What's funny is, is in, in between the 92, 93 season, he got traded two to the Padres.
• 30:02
  Oh, wow.
• 30:03
  But yeah, had a, had a five point WAR season.
• 30:09
  God, he was a monster for Houston.
• 30:12
  Great trade.
• 30:13
  You know, like when I think about that trade and those players, it is one that when you really examine it kind of like what we're talking about, when you look at Carter's WAR and truly his career stats, especially
• 30:24
  with the advanced analytics, you think about Alomar, Fernandez, McGriff, all of them.
• 30:30
  It was easy for me as we were kind of getting ready for this to think one.
• 30:36
  Think Fred McGriff.
• 30:38
  Yeah.
• 30:38
  I mean this is the crime dog, right?
• 30:40
  He's the prize of the whole thing.
• 30:42
  But he really, I mean you can argue easily that Alomar is the biggest takeout of it.
• 30:48
  But then also thinking of what's coming for the Toronto Blue Jays and what an impact Alomar was on those championship teams and obviously the impact Joe Carter had.
• 31:01
  You know, even if you were just to take it down to that one at bat against Mitch Williams, I mean, that's pretty big.
• 31:10
  But, man, just such a.
• 31:11
  Like the legs on the trade.
• 31:13
  Yes.
• 31:13
  Is.
• 31:14
  Is really something.
• 31:15
  And when you think about this, the sliding door of it.
• 31:19
  What if Gillick is like, I gotta have Randy Myers.
• 31:21
  Yeah.
• 31:22
  And then it's like.
• 31:22
  Okay, well, let's just pause.
• 31:24
  Yeah.
• 31:24
  You know, and this ends up not.
• 31:25
  Or.
• 31:26
  Yeah, it's just.
• 31:27
  Yeah.
• 31:27
  Or it's just Carter from a Griff.
• 31:29
  Or Randy Myers ends up there somehow.
• 31:31
  Yeah.
• 31:31
  You know what I mean?
• 31:32
  Because you also.
• 31:33
  Then there is no Nasty Boys in Cincinnati, which is going to have an immediate impact on one of the next few podcasts that we're going to have here, because that all changes.
• 31:42
  I mean, he was.
• 31:43
  He was.
• 31:45
  He may have not been the nastiest of the three of them, but he was the guy.
• 31:49
  He was the real closer.
• 31:50
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 31:51
  I think he's widely considered the best pitcher out of this.
• 31:54
  Definitely the best looking, even in hindsight.
• 31:56
  Yeah.
• 31:56
  And ever at the time.
• 31:58
  And in hindsight.
• 31:59
  Yes, definitely.
• 32:01
  Joe Carter 19.5 career war.
• 32:05
  Joe Carter, I felt like was a.
• 32:10
  What's the word I'm looking for?
• 32:11
  Firepoint for hall of Fame discussion for a very long time.
• 32:15
  Yeah.
• 32:16
  He had 396 homers.
• 32:17
  He batted.259, 1445 ribs, 1170 runs, 231 steals, and played a lot of games, too.
• 32:28
  Almost 2, 000 games.
• 32:31
  But to see him compared to other guys of that error era and only have a 19.5 war.
• 32:39
  You know, I know that somebody's shouting at the, you know, radio right now, shut up, nerd.
• 32:47
  Joe Carter was awesome.
• 32:49
  But I feel like if you had put a gun to my head and say like before all this, said guess Joe Carter's war, I would have said maybe like 40s, but like for him to be 20, like Pete
• 33:04
  Crow Armstrong, who I'm sure we can spend an hour talking about.
• 33:08
  He's already over 20.
• 33:09
  Love him, Coach.
• 33:10
  He's almost at nine.
• 33:12
  I think he's almost at nine.
• 33:13
  He's going to win for the season.
• 33:14
  For the season.
• 33:14
  He's going to win mvp.
• 33:15
  Yeah.
• 33:16
  But I think in his first two years, he may be close to Joe Carter right now.
• 33:20
  Yeah.
• 33:20
  Career wise, like it is like for, for.
• 33:26
  And granted, a lot of that comes from Pete Crowe Armstrong's glove right now, his career.
• 33:32
  He's at 17 too.
• 33:34
  He's gonna.
• 33:35
  He'll have Joe Carter beat like, you.
• 33:37
  Know, next May Yeah, I mean like.
• 33:39
  And a lot of that comes from his glove.
• 33:42
  But also he's just a very dynamic player.
• 33:44
  But you know, Joe Carter was.
• 33:46
  Every time you, even when Joe Carter was playing, they were like, you've got to stick him in left field because he has no arm and he can't get to a ball.
• 33:56
  But like, to me, you know, we did talk about the sliding door.
• 34:01
  This leads obviously to back to back championships for the Blue Jays which was the last one we had until the Dodgers recently put the double back to back up against the Toronto Blue Jays.
• 34:16
  I would like to take a quick aside and say, hey Connor, Isaiah.
• 34:20
  Counterfalefa.
• 34:21
  If you just run through home, we wouldn't have to have back to back Dodger championships.
• 34:26
  That's right.
• 34:27
  If you.
• 34:27
  But you've got a slide on a force out which makes no effing sense and still almost got it.
• 34:33
  He still almost got it.
• 34:34
  Scott or Isaiah?
• 34:35
  Isaiah.
• 34:35
  I'm almost like almost as upset about the IKF slide into home as I am about Nelson Cruz's.
• 34:44
  Almost.
• 34:44
  Yeah, almost.
• 34:46
  That's a level of misery that is saved for a long suffering fan base.
• 34:50
  But I was so mad at the fact that he slid into home because he's known as a very smart baseball player.
• 34:57
  Yeah.
• 34:57
  Heady player as they say.
• 34:59
  Yeah.
• 34:59
  He.
• 35:00
  But also like that, that, that game and series was just so amazing and to really just constantly like feel like hey, this could happen, this could happen.
• 35:11
  And wanting it and just wanting the dynasty wanting that team to lose.
• 35:15
  Yeah.
• 35:15
  And.
• 35:16
  And the other part there too.
• 35:18
  We could talk about the 11 World Series and, and all that a lot with Nelly.
• 35:23
  But you know, now that we also look at that as.
• 35:27
  That wasn't just a Nelly thing.
• 35:29
  You know, there were a lot of parties involved that all bled into that moment.
• 35:33
  There is two with.
• 35:35
  With Isaiah kind of falaf, I guess.
• 35:37
  But at the same time it comes down to one person making that one decision in that one moment changes everything.
• 35:42
  Changes everything changes your history.
• 35:45
  I was looking at the similarity scores on Joe Carter's Baseball Reference.
• 35:48
  Yeah.
• 35:49
  And I feel like the number one on that list is so perfect because it's another guy and probably has a much stronger case for the hall of Fame than Joe Carter after looking at this.
• 36:00
  But it'd be Dale Murphy and then right after Dale Murphy is the great Ruben sierra and they're both 900 plus in terms of similarity, score, force.
• 36:11
  So it's interesting that both of them.
• 36:14
  He's only got one hall of Famer in his top 10 and that's the recently inducted Andrew Jones.
• 36:20
  Who?
• 36:20
  Jones.
• 36:21
  Andrew Jones also boosted by being a defense defensive wizard.
• 36:26
  Yeah.
• 36:27
  Just shut down center shield down.
• 36:28
  But yeah, those are.
• 36:29
  Those are all names that I would associate with.
• 36:31
  With Joe Carter.
• 36:32
  Yeah.
• 36:33
  Especially the.
• 36:34
  The Dale Murphy one for me.
• 36:35
  I mean for sure.
• 36:36
  Again I just kind of put those.
• 36:37
  Guys feel like similar Dale Murphy.
• 36:40
  Yeah.
• 36:40
  See that's to me like I just said, Dale Murphy has a 46.54 according to baseball reference.
• 36:46
  Also also behind Tony Fernandez.
• 36:48
  That to me.
• 36:49
  Yeah, that to me would be what I thought Joe would equate to.
• 36:53
  Yes, but obviously that's not.
• 36:55
  But also Joe did have like I said that minus 17 year.
• 36:59
  Like he had some years where it was negative.
• 37:03
  Like he had like hit the last half of his career.
• 37:06
  Yeah.
• 37:07
  The last four seasons are all quarter.
• 37:09
  Of his career is minus two and a half, minus three and a half, minus 5.2.
• 37:17
  So he's got several seasons in there that are minus 5.8 war.
• 37:21
  So hey just been league average in those years.
• 37:24
  You're talking still 26, which is nowhere near.
• 37:27
  Yeah, just for reference people, I think it's about 55 and a half.
• 37:32
  It may be in the 60s now.
• 37:35
  So that for the hall of Fame and what I'm saying is, is like.
• 37:39
  Like when we look at a Joey Votto, for example, it's like okay, put his WAR up against other first basemen and he's smack dab in the middle here.
• 37:48
  Like he should be a Hall of Famer.
• 37:50
  Yeah.
• 37:50
  Arguably that season 1990.
• 37:54
  So his last in San Diego, he where he had the negative 1.7 war, which is just wild.
• 37:58
  He.
• 37:59
  He finished 17th in MVP voting that year.
• 38:02
  He's the only.
• 38:03
  There's only two players that received any votes that year that had a negative war.
• 38:08
  The other being Pedro Guerrero who had a negative 0.1.
• 38:12
  So he was literally pretty close 16th.
• 38:14
  In MVP with a minus or minus 1.7 war.
• 38:19
  Fred McGff over the American League that year with Toronto.
• 38:23
  His last year in Toronto he had a 5.2 WAR, finished 10th in MVP voting which also, you know, just thinking about like two guys that were received MVP votes are at the centerpiece of one trade together is pretty.
• 38:38
  Is pretty wild.
• 38:40
  Tony Fernandez and Roberto Alomar weren't on those lists, but nonetheless big names in their own right.
• 38:46
  But McGriff that year, his last year in Toronto, I mean it was really.
• 38:55
  I mean 35 home runs, only 88 RBIs, which is much more about the rest of the team getting on or not.
• 39:03
  But 9, 30 ops.
• 39:06
  I mean, and.
• 39:07
  And to me, it's still relatively early.
• 39:11
  Fred McGriff.
• 39:12
  Yeah.
• 39:13
  Even though, man, when you look, he kind of arrived in 87 in terms of.
• 39:17
  And then 88, 89, 90 are all consistently very similar in terms of production.
• 39:24
  So, yeah, even in the moment, he was the star.
• 39:26
  I felt like the big.
• 39:28
  The biggest of the four names in my mind.
• 39:32
  I mean, he had five straight years of top 10 MVP finishes there in the beginning, before.
• 39:43
  Okay, yeah, the trade.
• 39:45
  I.
• 39:45
  The trade.
• 39:46
  What was the trade with Atlanta?
• 39:47
  Because in 93, he was traded to Atlanta and he was amazing after the trade.
• 39:52
  He was a one more guy before the trade during the season and a 3.2 for Atlanta after the season.
• 39:58
  And do you remember he gets traded there and there's a fire at the stadium.
• 40:03
  And that was like.
• 40:03
  The Sports Illustrated thing was that the Braves were literally catching fire when McGriff, the Fulton.
• 40:09
  That was Fulton county, right?
• 40:10
  Yeah, I don't remember that at all.
• 40:13
  Who was he for?
• 40:14
  I don't know.
• 40:15
  I'm looking right now.
• 40:15
  He's traded by the Padres to the Braves for the great Vince Moore, Donny Elliott and Melvin Nieves.
• 40:24
  I will go out on a limb and say that the Braves won that trade.
• 40:28
  Yeah, I would say so.
• 40:30
  Good Lord, Nieves.
• 40:32
  I couldn't pick those people out of the lineup.
• 40:34
  Elliott and Vince Moore.
• 40:38
  Vince Moore never made it up.
• 40:40
  Yeah.
• 40:41
  The other two combined for a negative career war.
• 40:46
  Pull them together.
• 40:47
  Joe Carter.
• 40:49
  Yeah.
• 40:49
  Could have gotten Joe Carter.
• 40:52
  Joe Carter's gonna listen to this and realize he's taking a bunch of strays.
• 40:55
  Yeah.
• 40:55
  Joe, you were great, man.
• 40:57
  You were great.
• 40:58
  And it is one of those things where it's like, when you do look at the career and you look at.
• 41:02
  Hey, all right.
• 41:03
  Well, when you really break it down, maybe he wasn't that close to being all affair.
• 41:07
  It really makes you value the love that he garners, at least in Toronto, for that moment, that much more.
• 41:18
  And to see, like, you know, he was a big player in the World Series, like, he was there before game.
• 41:22
  I mean, you know, he's kind of there.
• 41:25
  I don't know.
• 41:26
  Pudge or.
• 41:27
  Who are we?
• 41:27
  Who are the Rangers rolling out?
• 41:29
  Michael Young.
• 41:30
  Yeah, maybe.
• 41:30
  Showing up at a lot of stuff.
• 41:32
  Oh, yeah.
• 41:32
  And Young was even better, probably.
• 41:35
  But, you know, so I don't know, maybe there's a better.
• 41:37
  Maybe Elvis is a better example or someone like that, where it's just like, hey, here's long time and super important.
• 41:44
  You know, I don't know who our guy Is like that here.
• 41:47
  I would.
• 41:47
  I mean, young or Pudge.
• 41:49
  They do a lot of Pudge is too good, right?
• 41:51
  Pudge is a Hall of Famer and one of the greatest catchers of all time.
• 41:54
  Michael, do you want to have the Kinsler.
• 41:58
  Maybe I'm whispering this so nobody can hear us.
• 42:01
  Do we want to have the Pudge just didn't get caught with steroids conversation yet?
• 42:07
  At some point we're gonna get into that.
• 42:09
  Get in.
• 42:10
  Did you see Canseco went on up in Smoke in the last week or whatever?
• 42:15
  It's pretty good.
• 42:16
  Just the little clips.
• 42:17
  I have not listened to the whole thing yet.
• 42:18
  And I'm looking.
• 42:19
  I usually comes across my timeline.
• 42:20
  I haven't seen it, but I'm curious because he's going to talk a lot about the book.
• 42:24
  He talks about Maguire and kind of Impact and all that or whatever.
• 42:29
  But I'm really curious to listen to that whole thing.
• 42:33
  Not to tangent on the Consenko.
• 42:35
  Yeah.
• 42:35
  Real quick.
• 42:36
  But what's going on where he's got like the twitch, like the.
• 42:39
  His.
• 42:40
  He.
• 42:40
  He does a super hard blink every.
• 42:43
  You think that's just a tick?
• 42:45
  I guess, yeah.
• 42:48
  If it was something it's kind of treated or whatever.
• 42:51
  Or if it's just him.
• 42:52
  Scott, I would like to.
• 42:54
  This is another non sequitur because the last time I saw Jose Canseco in person was at the Dallas card show.
• 43:02
  And he walked in and it was.
• 43:04
  It was almost like he was an old wrestler.
• 43:07
  Like, it was like he was a WWF legend.
• 43:11
  Like, he just kind of walked through people.
• 43:13
  He had the big wraparound shades.
• 43:15
  This is like two years ago, three years ago.
• 43:17
  This is not 19.
• 43:18
  Like 96.
• 43:20
  Yeah, whatever.
• 43:21
  Like, he was dressed in a, like, torn gym shirt.
• 43:25
  I mean, it looked like he was.
• 43:26
  It looked like he had done, you know, a few sets and then just showed up to sign autos and take pictures and then was gonna go back to the gym and do some more sets.
• 43:37
  And it was just like in my head, I was like, one.
• 43:41
  I would be an intolerable.
• 43:43
  Yes.
• 43:44
  If I could live that life in my 60s.
• 43:46
  If I could be that person in my 60s, I would be absolutely just awful.
• 43:53
  An awful human being.
• 43:54
  But I also was like, I would really like to know what it's like to wake up, have 300 people show up, take a picture with you, tell you how great you are, sign some really cool stuff, like stuff
• 44:08
  you probably haven't seen in 30 years.
• 44:11
  Just like, you know, neat photos or old toys or cereal boxes, and you get to Reminisce about that stuff.
• 44:18
  Stuff.
• 44:19
  While everybody's telling you how great you are.
• 44:22
  And then you just get done and you probably go rip some reps.
• 44:26
  You probably go to the hotel bar.
• 44:28
  Probably pick something up at the hotel bar.
• 44:30
  Sure.
• 44:30
  And then just, you know, enjoy your.
• 44:33
  Enjoy the rest of your evening.
• 44:35
  Start anew, and do it all over again the next day.
• 44:37
  Here's what I've always thought with Canseco, because this ties into it quite a bit, though, underneath that surface of everything you just explained about the hotel bar.
• 44:49
  Do you think he has any level of.
• 44:54
  But my peers.
• 44:56
  Oh.
• 44:57
  I'm not blowing smoke past anyone else at this point.
• 45:00
  I mean, he kind of blows his own whistle on, you know, all that.
• 45:03
  And he doesn't hide behind anything, I guess, his own use.
• 45:06
  Do you feel that change, though, with Palmero?
• 45:09
  I feel like when Palmeira went up there and said, I've never done it, and then got busted, everything.
• 45:16
  Maybe not completely 180 with Canseco, but it really got pretty damn close.
• 45:21
  Yes.
• 45:22
  Where everybody was like, oh, shit, this guy is right about everything.
• 45:26
  Yeah.
• 45:26
  And we probably need to pay attention to the people that he's talked about, and we really haven't scrutinized yet.
• 45:33
  And I feel like he took a victory lap that's lasted.
• 45:37
  I mean, if he's on a podcast like that, that's part of the victory lap.
• 45:41
  Oh, no doubt.
• 45:42
  25 years later.
• 45:43
  Yes.
• 45:43
  Like, he's.
• 45:44
  He's still now, to me, like, he's considered, you know, the one that kind of broke everything open.
• 45:51
  Sure.
• 45:51
  It's almost like he's been given credit for that.
• 45:54
  For credit for doing steroids with these guys.
• 45:56
  Yeah.
• 45:56
  And then ratting them out, like.
• 45:59
  But I feel like we kind of look at him that way, and I.
• 46:02
  Guess that's where I'm going.
• 46:03
  Do you think he would trade the.
• 46:05
  How he still has almost.
• 46:07
  And like, this rock star, you know.
• 46:11
  Yeah.
• 46:11
  Kind of Persona.
• 46:12
  Almost.
• 46:13
  Like with everything you just discussed.
• 46:14
  Dragon Strange out of the hotel bar.
• 46:17
  Everything.
• 46:18
  Right.
• 46:19
  And.
• 46:20
  But last time anybody said Dragon Strange.
• 46:24
  To you, what is that gone out.
• 46:26
  I use it all the time still.
• 46:29
  I use it all the time.
• 46:31
  Sorry if that's you.
• 46:32
  Like, you, like.
• 46:33
  That's a 90s.
• 46:33
  You like a good bar with a karaoke.
• 46:36
  Yeah.
• 46:36
  And.
• 46:37
  And blowing a dart in the alley.
• 46:39
  Yeah.
• 46:39
  And then coming back in and just watching.
• 46:42
  I can just see you just kind of watching the bar with joy as you see somebody dragging some strange.
• 46:48
  I don't know if.
• 46:49
  What's the better term.
• 46:50
  Not Dragon Strange.
• 46:51
  What are they saying?
• 46:52
  What are the kids saying in 2020?
• 46:54
  I'm gonna bring that back.
• 46:55
  Okay.
• 46:56
  I think this podcast could bring it back.
• 46:59
  Where do you think?
• 46:59
  Like, I bet on a map you could pick out the states where dragging Strange is still in the discourse.
• 47:06
  Where.
• 47:06
  Where.
• 47:07
  Give me just the region.
• 47:08
  Here's the thing that you're thinking here.
• 47:09
  Because I don't want to.
• 47:10
  Definitely something that post.
• 47:13
  Me too.
• 47:13
  Has gotten.
• 47:15
  Probably used less often.
• 47:17
  Yeah.
• 47:19
  Gosh, now I almost feel.
• 47:21
  Now I feel bad now.
• 47:23
  Now we're bringing it back.
• 47:25
  Well, maybe better than Dragon Strange.
• 47:30
  Derek is just making sure that you're nice, you're presentable, that you smell good, that your hair looks good, that you're well shaved, maybe well caffeinated.
• 47:42
  I think we probably should flip this and say, do you want to find the love of your life and have a long lasting, meaningful relationship?
• 47:52
  Yeah.
• 47:52
  You're not going to do it.
• 47:53
  Jose doesn't.
• 47:54
  Well, Jose does not.
• 47:56
  Because he's Jose.
• 47:57
  But you do.
• 47:59
  Well, you'll need to be manicured.
• 48:01
  You'll need a fresh beard.
• 48:02
  You'll need some clean skin.
• 48:04
  Yeah.
• 48:04
  Some.
• 48:05
  Some.
• 48:05
  Some laundered hair.
• 48:07
  Yeah.
• 48:07
  Have a little pep in your step from some caffeine.
• 48:10
  Have some pep.
• 48:11
  Start off with a little caffeine.
• 48:13
  Yeah.
• 48:13
  Maybe have a nice cup of coffee the next morning for your guest.
• 48:17
  So, like, I'm really.
• 48:20
  This is putting a nice little day together.
• 48:22
  Yes.
• 48:22
  We should do this next weekend.
• 48:24
  That's right.
• 48:25
  We should have some coffee, get cleaned up for our lady friends.
• 48:29
  Have some coffee.
• 48:30
  Be peeking.
• 48:31
  Right when book club starts.
• 48:32
  Yeah.
• 48:32
  And a great place to get your soaps, your coffees.
• 48:36
  Where can I get all of that?
• 48:38
  There's only one place I know of in the world and that's sterling soaps and roastery.
• 48:44
  I don't know, it's.
• 48:46
  I think it's just soap.
• 48:48
  Just sterling soap.
• 48:49
  I think it's just sterling, singular.
• 48:51
  So, yeah, it's like James Wood the baseball player is not James woods the actor.
• 48:59
  All right, well, also, James Wood.
• 49:03
  There was a famous James Wood in our town, wasn't there?
• 49:06
  Was it woods or Wood?
• 49:07
  I think it.
• 49:08
  No, I think it was James Wood, but because he was a car dealer, it was James woods always.
• 49:13
  Because it was possessive of his car.
• 49:15
  Yeah.
• 49:15
  Well, in this case, we're Talking about Sterling Soap.com S-T-I R L-I-N-G Soap.com.
• 49:24
  They've got a tremendous array of shaved soaps of all kinds of scents, too.
• 49:32
  Yeah, we got a care pack.
• 49:34
  Not too Long ago.
• 49:35
  I don't know.
• 49:35
  We don't want to talk about the care pack.
• 49:38
  I went through it way too fast.
• 49:40
  Yeah, I actually saved some of the decaf coffee, put it in the freezer, thinking it would be the next time we do this.
• 49:47
  But I failed you and didn't have a cup of coffee for the podcast today.
• 49:50
  I was kind of wondering, but I should have probably given you a heads up, but they've got bath soap, shave soap, after shave splash.
• 49:56
  I love aftershave splash, got starter kits.
• 50:00
  So if you want all of that, Scott, they.
• 50:03
  They've got their shave soap.
• 50:04
  You can put it in, what, like a little cauldron with a shave brush and make it all foamy?
• 50:08
  Yeah.
• 50:09
  Oh, just like our dad's dads.
• 50:12
  Just like our dad's dads.
• 50:13
  But I'm.
• 50:14
  That's.
• 50:14
  You've got all kinds of stuff.
• 50:15
  Plus you've got absolutely delicious coffee.
• 50:20
  That's right.
• 50:21
  You know, the other thing I've really been looking at on there lately is just all of the accessories, I guess you could call it, and stuff.
• 50:27
  They have, like the shave kit stuff.
• 50:28
  The thing I've really been.
• 50:30
  I'm getting a haircut tomorrow, Derek.
• 50:32
  And every time I go into my haircut, my hairdresser is.
• 50:36
  Is a friend, and I always say to her, hey, I need you to tell me when it's time for me just to shave my head bald, because I don't want to be the person that just has like five
• 50:49
  wispy hairs on the front holding on for you.
• 50:52
  To have the horseshoe.
• 50:53
  I don't want to have the horseshoe either, but I made.
• 50:55
  No, I want you to have the horseshoe.
• 50:57
  That's what I'm saying.
• 50:58
  I don't want to, but I may do it just for you.
• 51:00
  Now, there are parts of this country where guys with horseshoes are Dr.
• 51:03
  Dragging.
• 51:06
  Not going to finish that sentence, but.
• 51:08
  They have one of those head shavers there.
• 51:12
  Okay.
• 51:12
  And I think when I do this, make this decision and just go what I.
• 51:16
  With what I like to call the Suge Knight, which is just the beard and bald on top, even though I know there's a lot of other guys that.
• 51:22
  Interesting that you would compare yourself to convicted murderer, but.
• 51:26
  Okay, well, I've been calling it that for far longer than.
• 51:30
  Well, I guess he's always had that.
• 51:32
  But it is.
• 51:33
  It is a very distinct look for him.
• 51:35
  Listen to our Tupac podcast if you.
• 51:36
  Want to get into that with Jeff Perlman.
• 51:38
  Yes.
• 51:39
  So anyways, I'm gonna order that.
• 51:42
  I'm gonna order that.
• 51:43
  As soon as she said, hey, it's time.
• 51:45
  Also, a very expansive sales selection, so don't forget to hit that sale tab because I got some great deals out there.
• 51:53
  That's always my favorite tab on any site.
• 51:56
  Sterling Soap altogether dot com.
• 52:00
  Yeah, for all of your shaving soap, shampoo, body wash, coffee needs.
• 52:07
  That's right.
• 52:08
  Check them out.
• 52:08
  Website, Check them out.
• 52:09
  We thank them for their support.
• 52:12
  So I would like to, especially since we've just ended our own podcast with that Jose Canseco aside, like, we'll get canceled probably because you introduced that phrase back into the vernacular.
• 52:29
  Man, I don't even know.
• 52:30
  I.
• 52:30
  You know, it's one of those phrases.
• 52:33
  I've got another.
• 52:34
  I don't know.
• 52:34
  Where do we draw the line here?
• 52:36
  Can.
• 52:37
  Can I tell the song or can I tell the story about my misunderstanding of the A word?
• 52:44
  I mean, I don't know.
• 52:45
  I'm just going to tell this story because that's how I feel with Dragon Strange.
• 52:50
  Right?
• 52:50
  Right.
• 52:51
  I don't know that I really understood where that came from, what that meant.
• 52:57
  Whatever.
• 52:58
  At some point in my life, I heard it.
• 53:00
  Now I do.
• 53:00
  I don't want to say I was innocent 20 minutes ago, but now I do another one.
• 53:06
  I'm just picturing Joe Carter listening.
• 53:08
  Do you know the next thing that's going to come out of my mouth right now?
• 53:12
  I have no idea, but I am.
• 53:14
  Do you know the story about.
• 53:16
  I was on a youth group trip and belted out the lyrics to a song and it was not the right lyrics, but it was the lyrics.
• 53:24
  Everyone was singing on the backseat of the youth group van to be because we were silly children.
• 53:32
  No, you don't.
• 53:33
  Okay, I'm just going to tell this story.
• 53:34
  If we want to edit it out, we can.
• 53:36
  Yeah, but.
• 53:36
  So I'm in 10th grade youth group.
• 53:40
  I started going to this church and youth group because my best friend Charlie went there.
• 53:44
  Right.
• 53:45
  Youth like Amazing.
• 53:47
  The.
• 53:48
  The leader of the group, Amazing had one of the bigger impacts on my life probably of anyone.
• 53:56
  And he and his wife were taking us like on a.
• 54:00
  What do you call it?
• 54:01
  Not a mission trip, but like a retreat type thing.
• 54:05
  Right.
• 54:05
  You know, we're going to go and spend a week and paint some houses for people that need it, study the Bible a little, but also have a lot of fun price in the day at like a putt putt
• 54:16
  thing or something.
• 54:17
  I don't know.
• 54:17
  Anyways, we're driving to this.
• 54:19
  I thought the world of these two people and my best friend's back there.
• 54:24
  He was a little crazy.
• 54:25
  And there was a song at the time, Achy Breaky Heart by the great Billy Ray Cyrus was really big.
• 54:33
  Now do you know where I'm going?
• 54:34
  No, but I, I, we all sing these lyrics.
• 54:37
  It was gigantic at the time, right?
• 54:39
  And I, in the backseat, belt out don't tell my twat, my itchy, twitchy God.
• 54:47
  That is not.
• 54:48
  No.
• 54:48
  Melted out at volume 10.
• 54:50
  We did fart.
• 54:51
  No idea what twat meant, I swear.
• 54:53
  And I know that's ridiculous.
• 54:55
  I don't know how.
• 54:56
  I still don't shield.
• 54:57
  It means I was.
• 54:59
  Shield.
• 55:00
  I was Google it.
• 55:03
  But no, no one Google it.
• 55:05
  But what is happening right now?
• 55:08
  But anyways, you do.
• 55:10
  You do know what it means?
• 55:11
  This is.
• 55:11
  Yes.
• 55:12
  Yeah.
• 55:12
  Okay.
• 55:12
  Of course.
• 55:12
  Yeah.
• 55:13
  I could explain it.
• 55:14
  But.
• 55:16
  Anyways, I don't know.
• 55:18
  I'm sorry to Joe Carter.
• 55:19
  I want to apologize to Joe Carter.
• 55:21
  I just.
• 55:22
  I want to apologize.
• 55:23
  I think when Joe Carter's listening to this and he's staring at his speakers and you say, I don't know if anybody out there knows what Dragon Strange.
• 55:30
  I just see Carter going, I know what it means.
• 55:32
  I know what it means.
• 55:32
  And then just takes a long pull off Marboro Red.
• 55:35
  And then how it segues to that.
• 55:39
  Sky Dome lounge in the early 90s.
• 55:41
  Yeah.
• 55:42
  So the couple driving the vehicle again, the youth minister and his wife, who was very much as part.
• 55:49
  I mean, they were basically together and everything.
• 55:52
  She yells, stop.
• 55:55
  He literally just breaks, pulls over.
• 55:58
  We're on the side of the highway somewhere, like in Kerrville, Texas, or something like that.
• 56:03
  And she says, out of the van, Scott.
• 56:07
  Out of the van.
• 56:07
  So I get out of the van.
• 56:09
  They, they.
• 56:11
  And I'm still convinced.
• 56:12
  And they're.
• 56:13
  They.
• 56:13
  They're.
• 56:14
  I don't talk to them very often.
• 56:16
  I send a message maybe once every couple years via Facebook or whatever.
• 56:19
  But if they were to ever hear this, they still don't believe I did not know what it meant.
• 56:23
  And I'm, you know, telling them, I swear I didn't know.
• 56:26
  Bo, I'm so sorry.
• 56:27
  She immediately explains kind of what it meant or whatever, and then goes on.
• 56:32
  And I just felt horrible.
• 56:34
  But how did we even get to this?
• 56:37
  Did they.
• 56:37
  Oh, the Dragon Strange put a crucifix.
• 56:39
  To your skin and it started to sizzle.
• 56:41
  No, they didn't.
• 56:42
  They didn't.
• 56:43
  But I think they did call my mom.
• 56:46
  Oh, yeah.
• 56:46
  When we got to the spot.
• 56:48
  Can't let that come back.
• 56:49
  And I was pro.
• 56:51
  It probably worked out better for me than that.
• 56:53
  We were Going to be gone for like five days.
• 56:55
  To where I wasn't immediate in the wrath, but I also, but my mom believed me.
• 56:59
  Yeah.
• 56:59
  But I also think, like, you're, I firmly believe that when a kid does something like that, there is probably some embarrassment and anger, like a flash of that.
• 57:10
  I also think that that becomes a private joke between husband and wife.
• 57:15
  Yes, I hope it did.
• 57:16
  I, I've thought that same thing.
• 57:18
  Like, I hope that they couldn't immediately, like, punish me, which, you know, would have just been grounding or.
• 57:25
  I don't know.
• 57:25
  I would think that your father probably got a hearty chuckle out of it.
• 57:29
  Yes, maybe.
• 57:31
  But, you know, my question to him would be, and I'm having breakfast with him tomorrow, I'm gonna ask him, did he know what it meant?
• 57:38
  Where does that even come from?
• 57:39
  I don't.
• 57:40
  I kind of want you to roll tape on that.
• 57:42
  Okay, I might.
• 57:43
  And we can add it into the next episode.
• 57:45
  Maybe.
• 57:46
  But I don't know.
• 57:49
  I wonder if your father remembers it and if he does it.
• 57:52
  Probably because it would have been because your mother, like, really threw a fit, like, or really got upset.
• 57:59
  Yeah.
• 57:59
  And he remembers that outburst of anger at you, not at him, obviously.
• 58:04
  Well.
• 58:04
  And I, now that I'm thinking about, I don't remember who they talk to.
• 58:08
  Sure.
• 58:09
  Because I'm pretty sure it would have been phrases.
• 58:11
  We've talked to your mom and dad.
• 58:13
  You can stay or whatever.
• 58:15
  Or we talk to your mom and dad.
• 58:17
  That's.
• 58:17
  And do you think that they talked normal level until they got to the word and then kind of murmured and.
• 58:24
  Whispered it or didn't say it at all?
• 58:26
  Just said, Scott said something.
• 58:28
  He used a euphemism for a vagina.
• 58:31
  Like, it was really clinical.
• 58:32
  Oh, I can't imagine.
• 58:33
  Sounds worse.
• 58:34
  Gosh way somebody does clinical talk.
• 58:36
  Way worse.
• 58:37
  And I put it to a achy breaky heart rhythm.
• 58:40
  I mean, I almost think I could.
• 58:42
  They should kind of just be like, oh, well, that was creative and we're proud of you for that.
• 58:46
  But I don't know.
• 58:48
  I don't know.
• 58:49
  Nonetheless, Scott, can we talk about this baseball?
• 58:54
  I, I, the reason I say that this is the last great American baseball trade.
• 58:59
  Yes.
• 59:00
  I went back through and looked at just basically the top baseball trades.
• 59:04
  And at a certain point, we do get into the, we dive into the prospect era, which is basically, you're sending your known commodity for lottery tickets.
• 59:15
  Yep.
• 59:16
  And that kind of dominates the scene.
• 59:18
  And not to say that that obviously was not a normal trade back then in the 80s and 90s, that was a common occurrence for sure.
• 59:28
  But I really feel like that's just become like we have it set up now where like a small market team maybe trades a superstar a year before in the off season, a year before he's about to become a
• 59:42
  free agent because they can't resign him.
• 59:44
  A lot of times, like we just saw with Tarek Scubal, it happens at the trade deadline to get out, to basically just maximize value and you know, they got two top 50 prospects for, for three months.
• 1:00:00
  Tareks Google until the, you know, November when he resigns with the Dodgers, like we all know he probably is going to do.
• 1:00:08
  But I, I really struggled to find a similar trade and I think the one that I saw closest to it now, and I'm also taking this out of basically whatever happened after the trade.
• 1:00:19
  I'm, I'm taking that out.
• 1:00:21
  I'm just talking at that point in time.
• 1:00:24
  Superstar for superstar baseball trade.
• 1:00:26
  It was really tough to find one.
• 1:00:28
  I'd almost argue, and I know I've got a little Rangers bias here, but I'm almost going to argue the last one we've seen in Maybe the last 10 years is Prince Fielder for Ian Kinsler.
• 1:00:37
  Yeah.
• 1:00:38
  Because I felt like when that got announced, I went, that's an old school baseball trade.
• 1:00:46
  And it was basically, it was need for need, but also like, you know, Prince immediately gets hurt after that.
• 1:00:54
  Lou basically is done with his career.
• 1:00:55
  Kinsler goes on and has, you know, a nice productive last handful of years.
• 1:01:04
  You know, there's a parallel universe where Ian Kinsler's a Hall of Fame second baseman.
• 1:01:08
  Sure.
• 1:01:08
  I mean, he probably was a little early, obviously, but that was, Sorry, that was a quick aside.
• 1:01:16
  Yeah.
• 1:01:17
  I do feel like though, in terms of star power, those two being dealt for one another might be the last one in the last like 10 years.
• 1:01:26
  That we've had and still kind of pales in comparison to this.
• 1:01:29
  You know what I mean?
• 1:01:30
  This was two for two.
• 1:01:33
  This is the ultimate sliding doors.
• 1:01:34
  Two hall of Famers and really one guy who again, before diving in, we would have said, oh yeah, maybe it could have been a Hall of Famer.
• 1:01:44
  Yeah.
• 1:01:44
  And then Tony Fernandez, who, I mean,.
• 1:01:47
  You could almost argue too, and, and like, in terms of like a win, win deal with prospects that Soto trade from the Nationals to the Padres.
• 1:01:55
  Yes.
• 1:01:56
  Or James Wood was in it, C.J.
• 1:01:58
  Abrams was in it.
• 1:01:59
  Mackenzie Gore was in it.
• 1:02:02
  And then they turned Soto into Michael King, Randy Vasquez, Drew Thorpe, like productive pros.
• 1:02:11
  That's, you know, of recent memory Another big one, if you recall, was the Miguel Cabrera trade to.
• 1:02:20
  From the Marlins to the Tigers.
• 1:02:22
  That had some.
• 1:02:23
  Some decent pieces too.
• 1:02:24
  But these are steel all for the most part, prospect trades.
• 1:02:29
  Yeah, I mean, I feel like there's a few going back.
• 1:02:35
  Before 1990.
• 1:02:36
  Yes, exactly.
• 1:02:37
  There's far more.
• 1:02:38
  Yeah.
• 1:02:39
  I was just simply like in the last 36 years.
• 1:02:42
  But the interesting thing is really there's not that many still when you go back, there's not many where it actually plays out to where it feels like it was these really strong.
• 1:02:55
  Again, Alomar Young.
• 1:02:58
  I mean, they're really.
• 1:02:59
  None of them are old, but I mean, basically, Alomar still kind of traded at 23.
• 1:03:05
  Yeah, yeah.
• 1:03:06
  Plus I think four or higher war seasons or whatever.
• 1:03:09
  And so it is.
• 1:03:12
  It's just.
• 1:03:12
  It is so unique, I think, in that how this worked out and then just to hear like when Gillick talks about it and how it all just came down and was just almost felt nonchalant, you know, like, yeah,
• 1:03:24
  okay, yeah, I think we can do this.
• 1:03:26
  Let's just do it, you know, or whatever.
• 1:03:27
  Yeah.
• 1:03:27
  And again, there was that need there for both teams.
• 1:03:30
  It did fit.
• 1:03:31
  As you alluded to earlier, ola rude makes McGriff expendable.
• 1:03:36
  Sure.
• 1:03:37
  Biff Roberts.
• 1:03:38
  Bip Roberts.
• 1:03:39
  Hey.
• 1:03:40
  And I love Bipro.
• 1:03:41
  And I loved his cards, too.
• 1:03:42
  Yes.
• 1:03:43
  He always had really good action shots on his cards.
• 1:03:45
  Yep.
• 1:03:46
  He had a swing through Cincinnati.
• 1:03:47
  Yep.
• 1:03:49
  So I think, you know, again, guess.
• 1:03:53
  John Ola roots war, right.
• 1:03:56
  Career war.
• 1:03:57
  I'll go 42 and a half.
• 1:04:00
  58.1.
• 1:04:02
  He was really good.
• 1:04:04
  Two World Series, three Gold Gloves, a batting title.
• 1:04:06
  Only an All Star twice, though.
• 1:04:09
  And he played from 20 to 36 in the show.
• 1:04:14
  Do you think the fact that we.
• 1:04:17
  He wore a helmet in the field impacts his hall of Fame?
• 1:04:23
  It doesn't hurt because it was that great Blue Jay.
• 1:04:26
  Classic Blue Jay.
• 1:04:27
  It was with the white triangle on the front.
• 1:04:31
  Yeah.
• 1:04:32
  From the edge of the brim.
• 1:04:33
  To the edge of the brim.
• 1:04:35
  He was.
• 1:04:36
  He was really, really good.
• 1:04:37
  And when you think of it like that, like all of those little other moments that happen because of it, it really is a.
• 1:04:44
  A unique trade in the history of baseball.
• 1:04:46
  And I, again, I'll go back to, like, there's other trades that have happened, like Griffey going to.
• 1:04:54
  To Cincinnati.
• 1:04:55
  Right, Right.
• 1:04:56
  Where I'll never forget where I was.
• 1:04:57
  Sure.
• 1:04:58
  Right.
• 1:04:58
  It's.
• 1:04:59
  It's just like I can remember that moment, but nothing like this.
• 1:05:03
  You know what I'm saying?
• 1:05:04
  And this is a Little different too because it was still early in my.
• 1:05:09
  I mean not early in my baseball fandom, but obviously earlier than Griffey.
• 1:05:13
  Not as just entrenched in the everyday transactions of it, but just to see that happen and to know so much about the players already and just be like, hey, these are all stars.
• 1:05:27
  You know, I think if I can real quick before I forget.
• 1:05:32
  The.
• 1:05:32
  The trade that I stumbled upon when we were listing and things like that or researching was the Bartolo cologne to the Expos trade.
• 1:05:40
  Okay.
• 1:05:40
  They got back Cliff Lee, Grady Sizemore, Brandon Phillips and Lee Stevens for Bartolo Cologne.
• 1:05:46
  And every one of those guys was a contributing, you know, pro.
• 1:05:53
  And then you had literally three bona fide superstars in there.
• 1:05:56
  I know Sizemore burned out because of injury.
• 1:05:58
  Grady Sizemore parallel universe where Gracie Grady Sizemore has like a Mickey Mantle is.
• 1:06:06
  Yeah.
• 1:06:07
  Too far.
• 1:06:08
  But like if you go back and look at grand group some of Grady seasons, like he was unbelievable.
• 1:06:14
  Mike Trout, he.
• 1:06:16
  I mean it's not out of the realm too good.
• 1:06:19
  His first four seasons, Grady Sizemore's and first four full seasons.
• 1:06:26
  6.6 war as a 22 year old, 6.6 war as a 23 year old, 5.5 war as a 24 year old and 5.9 more is a 24, 5 year old.
• 1:06:38
  Like he's literally posterizing Joe Carter in the first four years of his career.
• 1:06:45
  Like he was.
• 1:06:46
  Joe Carter's gonna become the new Mendoza line in terms of the Carter line.
• 1:06:51
  Damn good.
• 1:06:52
  And then I mean he didn't have his last full season.
• 1:06:56
  He was a 5.9 war guy.
• 1:06:58
  And then after that he did not put together total of four war.
• 1:07:04
  Like he finished with 27.
• 1:07:05
  Seven.
• 1:07:06
  Yeah.
• 1:07:06
  And he had a lot of my.
• 1:07:07
  Like he just kept trying to get back up on the horse and just was the shell of his former self.
• 1:07:12
  But like, I mean Trout's Trout's years were eight, nine more seasons to start off with.
• 1:07:20
  So like it's.
• 1:07:21
  It's basically that second tier.
• 1:07:23
  But to start your career off with 24 War in the first four full seasons is unbelievable.
• 1:07:29
  I mean you are on a Hall of Fame trajectory, no doubt.
• 1:07:32
  All you need to do basically is add another 40 war, 50 war.
• 1:07:38
  And I say that very flippantly.
• 1:07:40
  Basically he has to have eight more years of that level.
• 1:07:44
  But I mean if you're, you know, having a, you know, decently healthy next 10 years, there's a chance that he's sitting there at 70 war, you know, and, and very much is in the conversation of being a Hall
• 1:07:58
  of Famer.
• 1:07:58
  Yeah.
• 1:07:59
  And.
• 1:07:59
  And the other guy in there that immediately catches my ears.
• 1:08:03
  Cliff Lee.
• 1:08:04
  No door.
• 1:08:04
  Oh, the great Cliff Lee was sorry about trade too.
• 1:08:07
  Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
• 1:08:08
  Like Ranger great.
• 1:08:09
  He is obviously the highlight of that.
• 1:08:12
  Of that deal.
• 1:08:12
  But yeah.
• 1:08:15
  Also something that I'll take to my grave real quick as a Ranger is that Ruke Nano Door was on a trajectory to be.
• 1:08:24
  To basically hit the most homers as a second baseman ever.
• 1:08:28
  Yeah.
• 1:08:28
  Ruki is.
• 1:08:30
  It's interesting.
• 1:08:31
  I mean when they're your guys.
• 1:08:33
  Yeah.
• 1:08:33
  You know what I mean?
• 1:08:34
  Just the.
• 1:08:35
  How many guys kind of have these careers.
• 1:08:39
  If I'm not mistaken, he has the record for most homers by second baseman through 25.
• 1:08:45
  Like age 25 season.
• 1:08:47
  Because through age 25 season he had.
• 1:08:50
  I'm doing quick math here.
• 1:08:51
  He had.
• 1:08:56
  He had 127 homers.
• 1:08:58
  Oh wow.
• 1:08:59
  Through his first through.
• 1:09:01
  Through his age 25 season.
• 1:09:04
  Like I think that's all time for a second baseman.
• 1:09:07
  I'm sure.
• 1:09:07
  I mean it's got to be way.
• 1:09:08
  Up and then just, you know, he couldn't stop striking out and negative war seats to start piling up.
• 1:09:14
  But I mean he was, you know, he had five war under his belt by, you know, being 22.
• 1:09:20
  I'm not saying he was a superstar any stretch, but basically like he could have been Dan Ugla.
• 1:09:26
  He could have been Dan.
• 1:09:27
  You know what I mean?
• 1:09:28
  Like he could have been hit 30 homers and batten 210 as a 3132 year old.
• 1:09:35
  Like do you think he was doing it at 25, which was unsustainable.
• 1:09:39
  Anything anyone has ever said to him, you could have been Dan Ugla.
• 1:09:46
  I mean at a certain point I'm sure somebody did.
• 1:09:49
  Never had an 800 op season.
• 1:09:51
  He hit a 798.
• 1:09:52
  We're talking root Ned.
• 1:09:54
  This is.
• 1:09:54
  I'm sorry, this is me in the library with the Bill James extract.
• 1:09:58
  That's exactly right.
• 1:09:59
  Flipping pages.
• 1:10:00
  I love it.
• 1:10:02
  But anyway, not to belittle the point, but it's.
• 1:10:06
  I do think that you could absolutely make the argument that this is last great American MLB baseball trade.
• 1:10:14
  That.
• 1:10:14
  That in terms of just like star power.
• 1:10:18
  Yeah.
• 1:10:18
  That Bartolo cologne trade is electric.
• 1:10:22
  Insane.
• 1:10:22
  But in the moment that they weren't stars.
• 1:10:24
  Right, right.
• 1:10:25
  And I think that for sure.
• 1:10:28
  And the Expos are trying to make a major splash trying to get a series while they could because they were in a.
• 1:10:34
  A.
• 1:10:36
  What's the word I'm looking for?
• 1:10:38
  Their window was open.
• 1:10:41
  Yeah.
• 1:10:42
  And I honestly, like, you could, you know, in three to four years that Soto trade from the Nationals to the Padres probably gets in that conversation.
• 1:10:53
  Yes.
• 1:10:53
  Because James Wood's a superstar right now.
• 1:10:56
  See CJ Abrams not having a great second half, but he's an all star.
• 1:11:00
  Yeah.
• 1:11:01
  And then Mackenzie Gore.
• 1:11:04
  And you know, Mackenzie Gore is going to be a solid pro for a long time.
• 1:11:10
  I know that.
• 1:11:10
  That he's become a flashpoint for Rangers Twitter right now.
• 1:11:15
  Yeah, I bet he has.
• 1:11:16
  I.
• 1:11:17
  Those five prospects we dealt for him are, you know, they're fine.
• 1:11:21
  They're not having these made, but every time they do something.
• 1:11:24
  Yeah.
• 1:11:24
  Somebody will repost it on Twitter and go, mackenzie Gore, worst trade ever.
• 1:11:28
  I'm like, he's hitting high homers.
• 1:11:30
  Like, tap the brakes, pal.
• 1:11:33
  It's like it's a weird baseball.
• 1:11:35
  Twitter is just the best because it's the worst.
• 1:11:37
  Yeah.
• 1:11:37
  It's immediately overreactionary.
• 1:11:40
  Yes, it is.
• 1:11:41
  Just looking up, Just confirming for you through the age of 25, most home runs ever by a second baseman.
• 1:11:50
  Ruke Neto Door.
• 1:11:51
  Yeah.
• 1:11:51
  Do you want to guess.
• 1:11:57
  What is the all time homer?
• 1:12:00
  I would think that Simeon's got to be.
• 1:12:03
  If we're just talking about second base career, the issue is you've almost got to have these guys that come up at 19 or 20.
• 1:12:10
  Like that's.
• 1:12:11
  Yeah, that's true.
• 1:12:12
  Because Simeon was 26, 27, wasn't he?
• 1:12:15
  Yeah, probably.
• 1:12:16
  Let me just.
• 1:12:17
  I mean, number two on this list is very relevant right now.
• 1:12:24
  Even younger than rootnet is in terms of, you know, whatever he, his.
• 1:12:29
  His span was through 23.
• 1:12:31
  And that's Ozzy Albies.
• 1:12:32
  Yeah.
• 1:12:32
  And he was 15 behind Root Ned.
• 1:12:35
  My thing then Jonathan Shoop.
• 1:12:38
  Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 1:12:39
  He.
• 1:12:39
  He was a fantasy darling there for a few years.
• 1:12:42
  Yeah.
• 1:12:42
  No doubt.
• 1:12:43
  My thing on Simeon, when I said that was not Simeon barking at like the top.
• 1:12:47
  Him barking at being in the top 10, basically.
• 1:12:52
  Yeah.
• 1:12:52
  And it looks like he's eight.
• 1:12:54
  You're talking about second baseman career.
• 1:12:56
  Yeah.
• 1:12:56
  Pre 20, age 25.
• 1:12:58
  It looks like the all time leader is Jeff Kent at 377.
• 1:13:01
  Yeah.
• 1:13:02
  So rugened would have had to hit another 230, which is.
• 1:13:06
  That's a tall ask.
• 1:13:07
  It is because Kent played for a.
• 1:13:09
  Really long time and you know, rootnet.
• 1:13:11
  And now we're making this a Rugnetto door thing.
• 1:13:13
  But he also had just like that moment.
• 1:13:17
  Right.
• 1:13:17
  I mean the punching Jose Bautista moment was going to be what was on his hall of Fame plaque probably.
• 1:13:23
  You know, so I mean he was, he Was beloved for a very short time.
• 1:13:30
  Well, he was just that.
• 1:13:31
  Yeah.
• 1:13:31
  The Bautista punch was.
• 1:13:33
  I mean, he became.
• 1:13:35
  I mean that was.
• 1:13:37
  That Bautista fight was a national story for a week.
• 1:13:40
  Was like.
• 1:13:41
  I mean, I remember listening to podcasts about punishments and what this meant and just like then just the sure masculinity of it all and how hilarious it was.
• 1:13:52
  And.
• 1:13:54
  Here's one for you just so, just for fun.
• 1:13:57
  Ready?
• 1:13:57
  Because now I'm on stat head and as.
• 1:14:00
  As you've fallen victim to, I can just get on here for hours and send you lots of baseball randomness.
• 1:14:07
  But if you were to look at the.
• 1:14:08
  They played a game at second.
• 1:14:11
  Okay.
• 1:14:13
  Through age 25.
• 1:14:15
  Uhhuh.
• 1:14:16
  All time home runs in like in that span.
• 1:14:19
  So all time up to age 25.
• 1:14:21
  Okay.
• 1:14:22
  All they had to do was play one game at second to qualify.
• 1:14:25
  This is going to be good.
• 1:14:26
  Yeah.
• 1:14:28
  Who is it?
• 1:14:28
  The top three are all timers that are hall of Famers.
• 1:14:33
  Yeah.
• 1:14:34
  Number one, Mickey Manel.
• 1:14:35
  I was about to say, I was literally about to say, did something stupid happen?
• 1:14:40
  Like Mickey Manel played second base at like in a blowout.
• 1:14:43
  Yeah.
• 1:14:43
  Mel OT and Henry Aaron are the top three.
• 1:14:48
  Killer Bru on there at five, Raphael Ders at six, Fernando to T7 and then Rugie eight.
• 1:14:55
  I've.
• 1:14:56
  Here's the thing.
• 1:14:56
  I didn't hear anything after, after you said Hank Aaron.
• 1:14:59
  Mickey Manel and Hank Aaron both had a game at second base.
• 1:15:03
  At least one.
• 1:15:04
  I knew Aaron, I, I, I, I.
• 1:15:06
  That I had thought of it.
• 1:15:07
  But I have gone back and looked at that.
• 1:15:09
  In his early days, I mean, he played a lot of short and second.
• 1:15:12
  I say, oh, okay.
• 1:15:13
  I mean there was definitely a.
• 1:15:14
  I.
• 1:15:14
  Feel like I had brief time blind spot with Hank Aaron just in general.
• 1:15:19
  And now, and now I want to.
• 1:15:22
  Know how many games Mickey Mano played at second base.
• 1:15:26
  Man, it doesn't give me that.
• 1:15:27
  And I wonder if they did that when he got hurt.
• 1:15:32
  But also you would have to have a lot of like, you just have to have a lot of lateral.
• 1:15:36
  Yes.
• 1:15:36
  Ability.
• 1:15:37
  So that doesn't make a lot of sense.
• 1:15:38
  Exactly.
• 1:15:38
  And honestly, it doesn't even have to be a game.
• 1:15:41
  It could just be for an inning.
• 1:15:43
  They shift.
• 1:15:44
  That's what I'm wondering.
• 1:15:45
  Second, you know, because of something, you know, or whatever.
• 1:15:48
  Or did he play now?
• 1:15:54
  I want to know, like games.
• 1:15:57
  Yeah, Games at position.
• 1:16:00
  Oh, man.
• 1:16:02
  All right.
• 1:16:02
  I don't know how we bring this Back to the McGriff.
• 1:16:07
  All right, I got it, I got it.
• 1:16:09
  He played one game in 1954 at second base for how many innings, Scott?
• 1:16:14
  1 1.
• 1:16:16
  But it says he had two put outs.
• 1:16:20
  Golly, he was.
• 1:16:21
  He had two total chances, two put outs.
• 1:16:25
  So I wonder if that means he got two ground balls.
• 1:16:27
  Do you think he was targeted?
• 1:16:28
  But it says put outs.
• 1:16:29
  It doesn't say assists.
• 1:16:31
  Like if you throw to first, that's an assist.
• 1:16:34
  Yeah.
• 1:16:35
  All right, hold on.
• 1:16:36
  He had two games in 55 at shortstop, played two innings.
• 1:16:40
  So he's literally.
• 1:16:41
  And they never.
• 1:16:42
  He.
• 1:16:42
  At the end of his career, he played first base.
• 1:16:45
  So basically he had one inning with two put outs in 1950.
• 1:16:49
  Now we're going to have to have a podcast over.
• 1:16:52
  Episode over.
• 1:16:54
  This is when Mickey Mantle played second base because Scott just randomly threw something out to me.
• 1:16:58
  Yes, but that's the only time he played second base in his career.
• 1:17:02
  One game.
• 1:17:03
  But it says he had two put outs.
• 1:17:04
  So I wonder if those were force outs at second or pop flies or line drives.
• 1:17:12
  Maybe it was like just a one man double play.
• 1:17:15
  What if he.
• 1:17:15
  What if he just got grounders and then bull rush the first baseman?
• 1:17:20
  Just so just.
• 1:17:23
  I know these timelines don't match up, but I'm.
• 1:17:25
  Now I'm picturing late in his career, Lou Gehrig struggling to get to first and Mickey Mantle just covering everything in between first and second base.
• 1:17:34
  Hey, I got a trade on my list that didn't come up.
• 1:17:37
  Okay.
• 1:17:38
  A Rod and Soriano.
• 1:17:40
  Yeah.
• 1:17:42
  Was Soriano just not good enough yet?
• 1:17:44
  No, he was in.
• 1:17:45
  He was in.
• 1:17:47
  He was in the.
• 1:17:47
  And then also the crazy one that didn't happen, which was a rod for Manny and Noma.
• 1:17:54
  Now that would have been.
• 1:17:56
  Well, I think that was lighter, wasn't it?
• 1:17:59
  I think that was one of like, lighter would have been, not lighter.
• 1:18:05
  Cubs pitcher, Red Sox pitcher.
• 1:18:06
  Lester.
• 1:18:07
  John Lester.
• 1:18:08
  Lester.
• 1:18:08
  Lester would have been in that trade, but he would have been a minor leaguer.
• 1:18:12
  It was.
• 1:18:12
  It was.
• 1:18:12
  It was Manny for a rod, that would have been massive.
• 1:18:15
  And then the nomar was.
• 1:18:17
  But there was some.
• 1:18:18
  There was going to be because.
• 1:18:19
  Yeah, because I think that wasn't.
• 1:18:23
  Anyway, it doesn't matter.
• 1:18:24
  But Lester was on the list of.
• 1:18:27
  He was going to go to the Rangers.
• 1:18:28
  Yes.
• 1:18:29
  Yeah,.
• 1:18:31
  But the thing that.
• 1:18:32
  There's another.
• 1:18:34
  Yeah, because Soriano's like 25, 26 at this point.
• 1:18:38
  Like he.
• 1:18:39
  He had been with the Yankees for three full seasons when he got dealt, so that is.
• 1:18:45
  That's a big one right there.
• 1:18:47
  Let me ask.
• 1:18:48
  He had led the league in stolen bases runs one season for the Yankees.
• 1:18:53
  He played over 155 games in each of his three years.
• 1:18:58
  I remember the Rangers being desperate to move that guy.
• 1:19:01
  Yeah.
• 1:19:02
  Just because they were so bad.
• 1:19:04
  One of the names we've mentioned a lot throughout this podcast is Pat Gillick, and he was the gm, of course, in Toronto.
• 1:19:11
  Yeah.
• 1:19:12
  And one of the questions I started thinking about a couple days ago was, would Pat Gillick be a Hall of Famer if this trade doesn't happen?
• 1:19:21
  Oh, he's well thought of.
• 1:19:23
  That's the only thing.
• 1:19:24
  Very well thought.
• 1:19:25
  Well thought of.
• 1:19:25
  But yes, he's this.
• 1:19:26
  Does this, does this swing those two World Series though?
• 1:19:30
  Do those back to backs in Toronto happen regardless of this trade?
• 1:19:34
  No, neither.
• 1:19:35
  I don't think so, neither.
• 1:19:37
  Mainly because of Fernandez's contributions.
• 1:19:40
  Yeah, yeah.
• 1:19:41
  I mean, he.
• 1:19:43
  What years did they win the World Series?
• 1:19:47
  92, 93.
• 1:19:48
  Right.
• 1:19:49
  He's a goat.
• 1:19:49
  Well, hold on.
• 1:19:54
  I mean, I'm in Alomar.
• 1:19:56
  Yeah, I know.
• 1:19:56
  I'm in Alamar, not Tony Fernandez.
• 1:19:58
  Well, and I mean, I did this literally throughout our moment too.
• 1:20:02
  Right.
• 1:20:03
  Wins the World Series, but it's also like game six.
• 1:20:06
  Right.
• 1:20:06
  So they weren't down in the last year.
• 1:20:08
  Here's why I said that.
• 1:20:09
  My bad.
• 1:20:11
  Roberto Alomar was Gold Glove at that time.
• 1:20:14
  His defense, he was a tops.
• 1:20:16
  He got three straight years of top six MVP votes.
• 1:20:20
  Like he was sixth place three straight years.
• 1:20:23
  Yeah.
• 1:20:23
  91, 92, 93.
• 1:20:25
  So his contribution is undeniable during those years.
• 1:20:30
  He literally was a 4.6, 6.6, 6.1, 91, 92 and 93 in Toronto.
• 1:20:38
  Like he just had monster years.
• 1:20:42
  Carter was the thing we remember.
• 1:20:44
  Alomar was absolutely an engine of that team, though.
• 1:20:47
  Yes, without a doubt.
• 1:20:50
  And again, that's why I was kind of saying the Carter moment, as great as it is, it wasn't really a be all, end all moment because it was game six and they won it six.
• 1:20:57
  But he also, it was huge.
• 1:20:59
  And he also was very good, especially in 91.
• 1:21:02
  A little bit less so in 92, but he was still a positive multi war player.
• 1:21:06
  Yeah.
• 1:21:07
  And.
• 1:21:08
  And I guess to.
• 1:21:09
  Once again, you know, unfortunately, Joe Carter catching, catching straight strays here, as we're well belittling his career a little bit.
• 1:21:19
  More, might be he might have shut the podcast off when we started talking about dragons.
• 1:21:23
  So if we're gonna say, though, don't get those two World Series.
• 1:21:28
  No, I want to mention that those two World Series are highlighted on Pat Gillick's hall of Fame play.
• 1:21:33
  I mean, but that's so is he.
• 1:21:34
  Not in is the question.
• 1:21:35
  I don't think he's.
• 1:21:36
  If this trade hat doesn't happen, he.
• 1:21:38
  Is well thought of.
• 1:21:38
  And he was a.
• 1:21:39
  He was a.
• 1:21:40
  He was a committee choice, right?
• 1:21:43
  Yes.
• 1:21:43
  Yeah.
• 1:21:45
  I mean, McGriff was a committee choice.
• 1:21:47
  Yep.
• 1:21:47
  He damn near hit 500 foamers like.
• 1:21:49
  And he never got up there close.
• 1:21:52
  Yeah.
• 1:21:53
  And when you think about it, McGriff and Fernandez go west.
• 1:22:01
  They're not there that long really.
• 1:22:03
  I want to say maybe three years together.
• 1:22:06
  Are you talking about the Padres, San Diego?
• 1:22:07
  Yeah, yeah.
• 1:22:09
  Versus the impact Alomar, who has a much longer career and has some more, you know, clubs that he plays with, notably at Baltimore.
• 1:22:17
  He was a.
• 1:22:17
  He was still a star.
• 1:22:19
  But then you've also got.
• 1:22:21
  They got rid of both of them pretty fast.
• 1:22:23
  Yeah.
• 1:22:24
  Like, neither one of them State.
• 1:22:25
  Neither one of them.
• 1:22:26
  They got two full years there.
• 1:22:28
  Oh, wow.
• 1:22:28
  Or three full years.
• 1:22:29
  I'm sorry.
• 1:22:30
  Because they both got traded mid season.
• 1:22:32
  Yeah.
• 1:22:32
  I mean, I guess in the end it's like Fred McGriff is out, but they're.
• 1:22:36
  To me, Toronto's the clear winner of the team trade.
• 1:22:39
  And so that just had me thinking, you know, Pat.
• 1:22:42
  And like I listened to the Pat Gillick hall of Fame podcast episode.
• 1:22:47
  I think we've talked about that.
• 1:22:49
  I've watched some other interviews and this trade is always the centerpiece of conversation with him, you know what I mean?
• 1:22:55
  And he had a lot of other great moments in.
• 1:22:57
  In a long career as this a successful gm, but nonetheless, this is definitely to me, this is his.
• 1:23:05
  This is his walk off right here.
• 1:23:08
  You can also, you can also extend that to Roberto Alomore.
• 1:23:11
  Sure.
• 1:23:12
  Like, if Alomore doesn't go to Toronto and he stays in San Diego, what happens to his career?
• 1:23:17
  Because he put up literally 17 more the next three seasons.
• 1:23:20
  Well, and Bip Roberts was coming for his job.
• 1:23:23
  Now I need to know, did we look at Bip Roberts war?
• 1:23:27
  I bet not.
• 1:23:28
  I'm gonna guess.
• 1:23:29
  All right.
• 1:23:29
  All right, give me the guess.
• 1:23:32
  Oh, Scott boy.
• 1:23:36
  Bip Roberts has a higher war than Joe Carter.
• 1:23:39
  Oh, Tony Fernandez.
• 1:23:41
  Bip Roberts is 20.5.
• 1:23:43
  Oh, wow.
• 1:23:44
  What is.
• 1:23:45
  Tony's is 45.
• 1:23:46
  Yeah.
• 1:23:46
  Yeah.
• 1:23:47
  Bip Roberts played 1200 games, Scott.
• 1:23:53
  Does he have more or less than in his career?
• 1:23:57
  Did he hit more or less homers than Rugnetto Doors biggest home run season, which I believe was 31 or less.
• 1:24:05
  He has less 30 homers career stole 264 bags, which I think is less than Joe Carter's or more than barely 231.
• 1:24:15
  Oh, 230.
• 1:24:16
  231.
• 1:24:17
  Well, bip Roberts is best season for your.
• 1:24:22
  Oh, let me back up.
• 1:24:24
  Here's the thing.
• 1:24:26
  5.8 war season in 1990 for the Padres.
• 1:24:28
  Oh, wow.
• 1:24:29
  So Bip Roberts was the good move.
• 1:24:31
  There was a moment they thought, hey,.
• 1:24:34
  He had a 2.9 ward the season before in 89.
• 1:24:36
  That's why they felt good enough to trade Alomar.
• 1:24:39
  Yeah, and then he, he, he.
• 1:24:41
  Alomar's season was better.
• 1:24:43
  But 5.8 is nothing to sneeze at.
• 1:24:45
  Yeah, well, you had to feel good about it.
• 1:24:46
  If you're San Diego 1992, he is on the Cincinnati Reds.
• 1:24:52
  He finishes 8th in MVP.
• 1:24:54
  NL MVP voting.
• 1:24:56
  What?
• 1:24:56
  And Larkin won that year.
• 1:24:58
  He puts together a five WAR season.
• 1:25:01
  Are you suggesting that Bip Roberts and Barry Larkin were the shortstop.
• 1:25:10
  For starters?
• 1:25:11
  You were not right.
• 1:25:13
  Oh, he did.
• 1:25:14
  Barry Larkin was 12th that year.
• 1:25:16
  That was Barry Bond of the Pittsburgh Pirates.
• 1:25:20
  Well, what year was Lark?
• 1:25:21
  But Barry Larkin got 12th.
• 1:25:22
  Bip Roberts got eighth.
• 1:25:24
  Larkin's closer, like 95.
• 1:25:26
  Maybe Fred McGriff got sixth.
• 1:25:28
  I care that year, his first year with the Padres.
• 1:25:32
  Do you think I would have bet my considerably poor net worth that Bip Roberts had not been a top 10 MVP finisher?
• 1:25:44
  Oh, gosh, yes.
• 1:25:46
  Maybe.
• 1:25:47
  Maybe that's why we think so highly of them is because he had two.
• 1:25:51
  He had two seasons over.
• 1:25:53
  Over 10 more.
• 1:25:56
  Larkin's MVP was 95.
• 1:25:58
  So that was the same year of the following.
• 1:26:00
  Eckersley wins the AL Cy Young as a closer.
• 1:26:03
  Maddox wins the NL Cy Young, Rookie of the Year Pat Listache and Eric Caros.
• 1:26:11
  Oh, listen to who was behind Rookie of the Year Eric Caros that year?
• 1:26:17
  Moises Alou finished second, Tim Wakefield finished third.
• 1:26:21
  And I don't think Wakefield threw very much.
• 1:26:23
  92 innings and finished third, but he was a monster.
• 1:26:27
  Remember?
• 1:26:27
  You remember Wakefield's like he was.
• 1:26:29
  I think his Erra was like, okay, it was 2.
• 1:26:33
  215.
• 1:26:34
  I thought it was under that.
• 1:26:35
  And then your Reggie Sanders finished fourth.
• 1:26:39
  Just pulled one of his rookie cards last night on a 92 upper deck.
• 1:26:42
  Love it.
• 1:26:43
  LaRussa and Leland were your managers of the year.
• 1:26:48
  Eckersley won MVP as well that year.
• 1:26:50
  How about that?
• 1:26:51
  Yeah, I remember.
• 1:26:52
  Gotta be the last closer we'll ever see as an mvp because it's just been normalized.
• 1:26:58
  Yeah, like he had.
• 1:26:59
  Don't get me wrong.
• 1:27:00
  Amazing season.
• 1:27:01
  80 innings, 1.9 ERA.
• 1:27:05
  This is 92.
• 1:27:06
  This is 92.
• 1:27:07
  Sorry, what did I say?
• 1:27:08
  No, you're good.
• 1:27:09
  That's right.
• 1:27:10
  93 strikeouts and 80 innings.
• 1:27:11
  Like.
• 1:27:13
  Okay, but for MVP, that's wild.
• 1:27:17
  It is wild.
• 1:27:18
  Let's see what his WAR was that year.
• 1:27:20
  I'll guess 6.9, 8.9, 2.9, 2.9.
• 1:27:25
  I bet he wasn't even a top 15 WAR that year.
• 1:27:28
  Definitely.
• 1:27:29
  And they gave him Cy Young and mvp.
• 1:27:31
  Yeah.
• 1:27:33
  What are they thinking?
• 1:27:34
  Joe Carter was third that year.
• 1:27:36
  Dave went.
• 1:27:37
  Three Toronto players were in the top six.
• 1:27:40
  Dave Winfield, Roberto Alomar and Joe Carter.
• 1:27:43
  What did Dave Winfield do that year?
• 1:27:46
  26 homers, 108 ribs,290 batting average.
• 1:27:50
  Did he.
• 1:27:51
  Did Joe Carter did.
• 1:27:54
  Dave Winfield did something.
• 1:27:56
  Didn't he hit a double down the line, left field line.
• 1:27:58
  In a World Series.
• 1:28:00
  In that with Toronto.
• 1:28:02
  He did have a really big moment.
• 1:28:03
  Did he get on that led to the Carter that they pinch run for him?
• 1:28:08
  Am I misremembering this?
• 1:28:10
  No, but he.
• 1:28:11
  No, I don't think you're.
• 1:28:12
  You're not misremembering that.
• 1:28:14
  He had a big moment.
• 1:28:17
  Dave Winfield.
• 1:28:18
  Gosh, that dude's career.
• 1:28:20
  And we're gonna get more into Winfield, too, in an upcoming podcast.
• 1:28:23
  Yeah, for sure.
• 1:28:24
  Because he's the centerpiece of the Steinbrenner stuff.
• 1:28:29
  One of my favorite.
• 1:28:33
  The double happened in the game six of the 92 World Series.
• 1:28:37
  Blue Jays versus Braves.
• 1:28:38
  Scored tied two two in the 11th, two outs, runner on first and second.
• 1:28:42
  Winfield then 41, drove a shot down the third baseline for a two run double, giving Toronto a four two lead.
• 1:28:49
  They held on to win that game.
• 1:28:53
  At what age was he?
• 1:28:54
  You said 41.
• 1:28:55
  Okay.
• 1:28:56
  Yeah.
• 1:28:56
  And that was the first world championship.
• 1:28:59
  Yeah.
• 1:28:59
  But was that game six?
• 1:29:02
  Yeah, game six.
• 1:29:04
  Did they win that in seven, though?
• 1:29:06
  They won that in seven.
• 1:29:07
  Yep, yep.
• 1:29:07
  Oh, no, no.
• 1:29:09
  They held.
• 1:29:09
  I'm sorry.
• 1:29:10
  They held on to win the game.
• 1:29:11
  Four to three, eight, clinch the World Series for them.
• 1:29:14
  So that was.
• 1:29:15
  That was basically the game, the series winning hit.
• 1:29:18
  That's what I'm thinking of.
• 1:29:19
  Yeah.
• 1:29:19
  Because it's very distinct in my head, that Winfield swing with the one arm that goes wildly open.
• 1:29:25
  Yeah.
• 1:29:28
  Very fast.
• 1:29:28
  Because we're up against it.
• 1:29:31
  My favorite moment of an athlete interaction with a fan.
• 1:29:36
  2010 World Series, Rangers, Giants, out in the center field, Nolan Ryan area.
• 1:29:43
  Do you remember this?
• 1:29:44
  Yeah.
• 1:29:44
  At the old ballpark, they set up espn, set up their show, you know, their post game World Series show.
• 1:29:52
  And Winfield was as close, as close as anybody else on that dais was to the fans walking by.
• 1:30:02
  And a guy came by and called Him.
• 1:30:07
  I want to say Joe Morgan.
• 1:30:09
  Oh, no.
• 1:30:10
  It was a white guy.
• 1:30:12
  Confused the black baseball player for another black baseball player.
• 1:30:16
  One of them, it was six foot five.
• 1:30:17
  The other one, five foot five.
• 1:30:19
  There's a good chance that I'm misremembering this, but it was another black.
• 1:30:22
  It was either Andre Dawson, Joe Morgan.
• 1:30:24
  It was somebody of that era.
• 1:30:26
  Gotcha.
• 1:30:26
  And Winfield was not looking at him at the time.
• 1:30:29
  And the guy goes, I'm just going to use Joe Morgan.
• 1:30:31
  But it was, hey, Joe Morgan, how's it going?
• 1:30:34
  And Winfield was looking in the opposite direction.
• 1:30:37
  Winfield whipped his head around with the anger of a Greek God, like, ready to shoot lightning bolts in this guy and said, I'm Dave Winfield.
• 1:30:50
  And I mean, with, like, all the disdain and scorn and just the.
• 1:30:56
  Don't you realize the, like, who I am, the greatness I am?
• 1:31:02
  And that guy recoiling as if Dave went like, dave Winfield's a huge dude.
• 1:31:06
  Yes.
• 1:31:07
  Would he get drafted in, like, four different sports?
• 1:31:09
  Yes.
• 1:31:09
  Like, he's a huge dude, and he still had it.
• 1:31:13
  And he whipped around and he was ready to beat the brakes off that dude.
• 1:31:17
  He still got it.
• 1:31:18
  And I was just like that today.
• 1:31:20
  I'm not messing with Dave.
• 1:31:21
  Yeah.
• 1:31:22
  No, but I was like, that was amazing.
• 1:31:24
  Because if that guy had come back at him, I was purely.
• 1:31:27
  I was positive that Winfield was going to jump over the.
• 1:31:32
  The railing.
• 1:31:33
  I really want to know what player it was now.
• 1:31:35
  It was.
• 1:31:36
  It was.
• 1:31:36
  It was definitely.
• 1:31:38
  And it was another broadcaster at that time.
• 1:31:40
  Yeah.
• 1:31:40
  Yeah.
• 1:31:41
  I mean, Joe Morgan could have fit.
• 1:31:43
  I think it was something like Joe Morgan.
• 1:31:46
  But anyway, doesn't matter.
• 1:31:47
  It was another black baseball player not named Dave Winfield.
• 1:31:50
  Yes.
• 1:31:50
  And Dave Winfield wanted to murder him.
• 1:31:52
  Yeah.
• 1:31:53
  So that was my Dave Winfield story.
• 1:31:54
  Love Dave Winfield.
• 1:31:55
  My Dave went.
• 1:31:59
  Another seminal moment in my youth was reading Dave Winfield's biography.
• 1:32:05
  Have you read that?
• 1:32:06
  No.
• 1:32:06
  It was written in the 70s and 80s.
• 1:32:08
  I guess that we're just adults only on this podcast.
• 1:32:11
  Are we just going to put a disclaimer up?
• 1:32:13
  I don't know.
• 1:32:14
  It was the.
• 1:32:15
  He had written an anecdote in there about going to a party and a guy coming out of a.
• 1:32:24
  Like a.
• 1:32:25
  Like another bedroom at this party, this wild party, either holding a dildo or wearing one, and me going, I don't know what that is.
• 1:32:38
  I need to find that.
• 1:32:40
  Like, what did he.
• 1:32:42
  And I remember that very distinctly.
• 1:32:43
  But you didn't scream it out.
• 1:32:44
  No, no, I didn't scream it out.
• 1:32:46
  No, I didn't.
• 1:32:48
  No.
• 1:32:48
  But I distinctly remember how did you.
• 1:32:50
  Go about finding out, if you don't.
• 1:32:52
  Mind, if you remember, I'm, I'm fairly certain we asked.
• 1:32:56
  And by we, I mean a group of friends asked.
• 1:32:59
  I know for a fact we asked somebody's mom.
• 1:33:01
  How, how did you go about asking one of your friend's moms this?
• 1:33:06
  I remember it was the reason we asked her very now.
• 1:33:10
  It was a guy, a kid named Justin.
• 1:33:12
  He was moving to Florida, and it was a goodbye party that we had at Pizza Hut.
• 1:33:17
  And we were all in the car, and she was driving us home because we all got picked up at school.
• 1:33:21
  Like, he was leaving the next day.
• 1:33:22
  It was like in the middle of the week.
• 1:33:24
  And on the drive home, we were all whispering about it, and my buddy Chance stepped up and asked.
• 1:33:33
  He said, we have a embarrassing question.
• 1:33:36
  He asked, you would say cool if we ask you.
• 1:33:38
  And she was a cool mom.
• 1:33:39
  We all really liked her.
• 1:33:40
  And she said, yeah.
• 1:33:41
  And she said, I remember her saying something effective.
• 1:33:45
  What do you think it is?
• 1:33:46
  And we, we said what we thought it was, and she confirmed it.
• 1:33:50
  Oh, wow.
• 1:33:51
  She was like, that's right.
• 1:33:52
  Nice.
• 1:33:52
  And then, like, we all nodded each other and we were in my driveway.
• 1:33:57
  And as last time I saw Justin in my life was his mom confirming to us what that was.
• 1:34:03
  So here's our homework.
• 1:34:04
  Yeah, you've got to find Justin first on Facebook, then find his mom.
• 1:34:08
  We just had our 30th.
• 1:34:11
  30Th class reunion, and we tried to find there was another guy named Chad.
• 1:34:16
  Not our Chad.
• 1:34:17
  Yeah, there was another guy named Chad, and he moved somewhere similar, like, the year after.
• 1:34:23
  And we all, we tried to find both those guys, and we couldn't track them down really.
• 1:34:27
  So we wondered if both of them are dead now.
• 1:34:29
  Oh, I don't like that.
• 1:34:30
  I don't like it either, but.
• 1:34:32
  Well, I was gonna say you should have to ask your.
• 1:34:35
  Ask Justin's sweet mother if she remembers this conversation, and I'll ask if he remembers the twine.
• 1:34:43
  Her conversation, late 60s, early 70s.
• 1:34:46
  At, at minimum.
• 1:34:47
  Yeah, she seemed to be, she was a cool mom.
• 1:34:49
  I'm thinking she was a young, younger.
• 1:34:51
  Yeah.
• 1:34:51
  Yeah.
• 1:34:52
  Hot mom.
• 1:34:56
  I, I want to say she had, like, long, dark hair, glasses.
• 1:35:04
  Oh.
• 1:35:05
  So I, I, I don't think she was unpleasant.
• 1:35:09
  No.
• 1:35:09
  Okay.
• 1:35:09
  We didn't, I mean, we obviously felt comfortable around her.
• 1:35:12
  So she wasn't a gargoyle.
• 1:35:13
  Yeah, exactly.
• 1:35:14
  She didn't have, like, a gigantic, like, mole.
• 1:35:17
  That's kind of fun.
• 1:35:18
  I mean, I almost, like, I was trying to think of anything any Experience I've had.
• 1:35:25
  And I guess I'm not a cool dad.
• 1:35:27
  I've never had my friend or my kids friends be like, hey, hey, Mr.
• 1:35:31
  Hyler.
• 1:35:32
  But here's something embarrassing.
• 1:35:34
  You cannot compare yourself.
• 1:35:36
  Just like baseball players of certain eras can compare about themselves because the Internet is here.
• 1:35:40
  Yeah.
• 1:35:41
  It's all.
• 1:35:41
  Anything.
• 1:35:42
  It's all changed.
• 1:35:43
  I do know personally, without divulging names or getting into details, I know that I was told a story recently of a child that came to their parent and said, there are things I am curious about that I would
• 1:36:05
  like to find out about in a healthy manner, but I don't want you to somehow see my search history.
• 1:36:19
  Yeah.
• 1:36:19
  Yeah.
• 1:36:19
  And think that something has gone off the rails.
• 1:36:22
  So I'm.
• 1:36:22
  As a kid.
• 1:36:24
  Oh, wow.
• 1:36:25
  As a teenager, I'm giving you a heads up that there are times where I might hear something that I don't know what it is, and I go and Google it.
• 1:36:33
  That doesn't mean I'm watching videos because.
• 1:36:37
  Yeah, I mean, we're.
• 1:36:38
  You know.
• 1:36:39
  But I thought that that was the.
• 1:36:40
  Use of their technology.
• 1:36:42
  So we're like, hey, I did think that that was almost like I was proud of that.
• 1:36:48
  Yeah.
• 1:36:48
  That saying, child proud and sad at the same time.
• 1:36:52
  A little, maybe.
• 1:36:52
  But also.
• 1:36:53
  But that's just life.
• 1:36:54
  I mean, it's.
• 1:36:54
  It's better than getting a.
• 1:36:57
  I'm trying to think of a hustler at our age being shoved into your face at night, 10 or 11 and going.
• 1:37:05
  I don't know what.
• 1:37:06
  What like that just.
• 1:37:07
  Or just like somebody's older brother pointing at a certain area of the body and.
• 1:37:12
  Yeah.
• 1:37:12
  Oh, you don't know what that is.
• 1:37:14
  Yeah.
• 1:37:15
  So.
• 1:37:16
  So, by the way, what was the.
• 1:37:18
  Sweet spot in there?
• 1:37:19
  Was it when you could Google it without being.
• 1:37:22
  Without being monitored 24 7?
• 1:37:24
  I think they just wanted to make sure that they had cover.
• 1:37:27
  Yeah.
• 1:37:28
  For like, they wanted to make sure that they.
• 1:37:31
  That that parent knew that they weren't.
• 1:37:33
  Is there a chance that this is just like, I'm gonna tell them this, but all I'm really doing.
• 1:37:38
  No, I.
• 1:37:39
  I mean, I.
• 1:37:40
  In retrospect, I thought that's a good move.
• 1:37:42
  Yeah.
• 1:37:43
  But it.
• 1:37:45
  No, I don't think so.
• 1:37:46
  But anyway, the point is, Pat Gillick is definitely not in the hall of Fame if he doesn't win two World Series.
• 1:37:53
  And Justin.
• 1:37:54
  And his name is Justin Larkin.
• 1:37:56
  Justin Larkin.
• 1:37:56
  If you're listening to Scott, it's raining outside.
• 1:37:58
  Oh, my gosh.
• 1:37:59
  We are in Texas, where it has not rained in three months.
• 1:38:03
  Hundreds of Two months?
• 1:38:04
  Yeah.
• 1:38:06
  I mean, holy crap.
• 1:38:07
  I know.
• 1:38:08
  Raining outside, it's.
• 1:38:09
  You know, it probably literally started raining when I started raining, when I started telling that story, too.
• 1:38:17
  Do you think that's, like, a sign that Justin's mom.
• 1:38:22
  I'm hoping so.
• 1:38:23
  What if.
• 1:38:23
  What if those are tears from heaven, Scott?
• 1:38:26
  Oh, no.
• 1:38:26
  I hope.
• 1:38:27
  Oh, Justin's mom is still.
• 1:38:28
  You tell you something.
• 1:38:29
  Kicking it.
• 1:38:30
  And I hope that people are still going to Justin's mom as a.
• 1:38:34
  I feel like this is a safe spot.
• 1:38:35
  Can I ask you about dildos?
• 1:38:38
  I hope that that has never changed for Justin's mom.
• 1:38:42
  I think probably she probably was ahead of the game when it came to that because I wasn't going to my mom and asking that.
• 1:38:48
  Yeah, I guess that's also, like, subconsciously.
• 1:38:51
  I'd love to know now.
• 1:38:52
  I don't like, she's a cool mom.
• 1:38:54
  She's younger mom.
• 1:38:55
  She wore glasses.
• 1:38:55
  She had dark brown hair.
• 1:38:57
  Those are the things we know.
• 1:38:58
  But was there something else that made y' all think, like, well, she'll know what this is.
• 1:39:04
  Was she.
• 1:39:05
  Was she married?
• 1:39:07
  I think she was divorced and.
• 1:39:09
  But dating.
• 1:39:10
  Like, I think she was actively dating.
• 1:39:12
  Yeah.
• 1:39:12
  But also, like, I think the factor of the.
• 1:39:15
  The.
• 1:39:15
  The.
• 1:39:15
  That they were literally leaving the next morning.
• 1:39:17
  We'd never see her again.
• 1:39:18
  I wonder if she ever dated that one coach I always hear about from back in the day.
• 1:39:22
  No, that's.
• 1:39:23
  That's that different times that there are still people around tied to that story, Scott.
• 1:39:28
  And we don't want to get sued.
• 1:39:29
  No, I didn't want to get into that.
• 1:39:31
  I was just wondering, were they overlapping times?
• 1:39:35
  No, no, no.
• 1:39:36
  He came, like, four or five years later.
• 1:39:39
  Yeah.
• 1:39:40
  Those are big.
• 1:39:41
  That's big brain out there.
• 1:39:42
  Really big rain.
• 1:39:43
  It's happening in Texas, guys.
• 1:39:45
  It is happening in Texas.
• 1:39:47
  Mother Nature still loves us.
• 1:39:50
  I hope she loves us for about 10 straight days.
• 1:39:53
  And I hope she's a cool mom, just like Justin.
• 1:39:55
  Hey, Mother Nature.
• 1:39:57
  Well, I mean, we get all those National Geographic videos, so.
• 1:40:01
  Yeah, we know.
• 1:40:02
  Mother Nature is a cool moment, Scott.
• 1:40:04
  It's whipping out there.
• 1:40:05
  It is, the rain.
• 1:40:06
  And you've got a good view of it.
• 1:40:08
  I don't.
• 1:40:08
  So I'm having to either turn around or just take your word for it, Scott.
• 1:40:12
  We're literally on the precipice of entering.
• 1:40:14
  Like, hey, last question on the dildo with the.
• 1:40:17
  Justin's mom was.
• 1:40:19
  Did you ask it?
• 1:40:20
  No, no.
• 1:40:22
  My buddy Chance did.
• 1:40:23
  Okay, that.
• 1:40:23
  Okay, you said that.
• 1:40:24
  I'm sorry.
• 1:40:25
  And I remember us giggling also, like, Nodding at each other that we knew.
• 1:40:31
  Yeah.
• 1:40:31
  Was that Chances mantra?
• 1:40:34
  Was he just like.
• 1:40:35
  He was just.
• 1:40:35
  Screw it.
• 1:40:36
  He was just a peculiar young man.
• 1:40:38
  Okay.
• 1:40:40
  He just.
• 1:40:42
  Always.
• 1:40:43
  Just inquisitive.
• 1:40:44
  Yeah.
• 1:40:45
  I just don't.
• 1:40:45
  I can't imagine a mom from my childhood that I'm going to.
• 1:40:49
  With that I'm finding someone's older brother.
• 1:40:53
  But I guess then it's the embarrassment of.
• 1:40:55
  Because they were probably all bullies and.
• 1:40:57
  Yeah.
• 1:40:57
  Like you said, gonna make fun of me for not.
• 1:41:00
  I don't know.
• 1:41:01
  I'm definitely not asking my siblings or my parents.
• 1:41:04
  I don't know.
• 1:41:05
  That's something.
• 1:41:06
  Why don't we all do that in between now and the next episode, Think about who was Justin's mom in our life when we were a kid.
• 1:41:15
  Because I think that's pretty.
• 1:41:17
  It may be more in chances.
• 1:41:18
  I don't think we have enough listeners for this, but it would be great to get, like, the.
• 1:41:24
  The inside jokes, the things that we've talked about in these first eight episodes to somehow, like, get a reunion episode.
• 1:41:30
  Yes.
• 1:41:30
  Where it's like all of a sudden you're like, I had it confirmed.
• 1:41:34
  This is her.
• 1:41:35
  Aretha Larin.
• 1:41:37
  Oh, man.
• 1:41:38
  Her last name was Lin, too.
• 1:41:39
  Oh, you're giving it away.
• 1:41:41
  Well, okay.
• 1:41:41
  It was.
• 1:41:42
  Yeah, Justin and his last name was Lin.
• 1:41:44
  So, yeah, I.
• 1:41:45
  Of course, Barry Larkin at the time was.
• 1:41:47
  Yeah.
• 1:41:48
  Very, very important.
• 1:41:49
  But did he look like Barry Larkin?
• 1:41:53
  No.
• 1:41:53
  He couldn't have been like Barry Larkin's little brother.
• 1:41:55
  He was the opposite pigment of.
• 1:41:57
  Of Barry Larkin and not a great athlete.
• 1:42:00
  Well, let me tell you real quick.
• 1:42:01
  And again, I know we're way over.
• 1:42:03
  And well, we're gonna.
• 1:42:04
  Sorry, Fred.
• 1:42:05
  Probably getting trimmed.
• 1:42:07
  But here's the.
• 1:42:08
  The thing I was just thinking about was there's this account on Instagram that I start following in the last week, and it's this lady that goes around to cemeteries.
• 1:42:19
  Okay.
• 1:42:20
  Cleans off old dirty.
• 1:42:23
  Yeah, I liked up.
• 1:42:24
  I like watching those videos.
• 1:42:25
  Yeah, it's very satisfying to watch or clean it.
• 1:42:28
  Ye.
• 1:42:29
  What she does is she's got a pretty big following.
• 1:42:31
  And she just basically says, here it is.
• 1:42:34
  It's Gina Larin born.
• 1:42:38
  I'm making a name up now.
• 1:42:39
  Feel bad for Justin's mom, Jane Do.
• 1:42:42
  Yeah.
• 1:42:42
  Born X died.
• 1:42:45
  Why?
• 1:42:46
  Maybe there's one other thing on there, like beloved mother or whatever, I don't know.
• 1:42:51
  And then she just says to her following, do your thing.
• 1:42:56
  And then it turns into all of these people scouring the Internet files.
• 1:43:01
  People are going to, like, libraries and looking at new Old newspapers on microfiche or whatever it's called.
• 1:43:09
  And then they're coming back and they're telling the person's story.
• 1:43:12
  And I am so enamored.
• 1:43:14
  Like, I'm like, this is amazing.
• 1:43:15
  Yes.
• 1:43:15
  I love this kind of thing.
• 1:43:17
  I never would have wanted to know anything about Jane Doe, but, like, something about cemeteries and hearing the story finding out.
• 1:43:24
  And some of them it's just nothing, but some of them, it's kind of cool and whatever.
• 1:43:28
  But that's my, you know, thing is like, hey, listeners.
• 1:43:32
  Yeah.
• 1:43:32
  Go find Justin Larkin.
• 1:43:34
  Well, my thing, my idea was, and I think we've talked about this, my idea was to grab a wax pack from the 90s, open it and literally go track down each player in the pack.
• 1:43:50
  I love that.
• 1:43:51
  And I've got wax packs sitting right there.
• 1:43:54
  But somebody did that.
• 1:43:55
  Like, and then when I started, like, Googling to see if anybody had done that, somebody I think had done that.
• 1:44:00
  Either a documentary or, like YouTube shorts.
• 1:44:05
  Okay.
• 1:44:05
  Or.
• 1:44:06
  Or a book or long piece, something to that effect.
• 1:44:09
  I don't think it was necessarily a full book.
• 1:44:12
  Well, there is, and I think I've shared this, the 1988 Tops podcast, where they're going through every car, every random kind.
• 1:44:19
  But they're also.
• 1:44:19
  They team up players from time to time, kind of.
• 1:44:22
  But it's not.
• 1:44:23
  Not that.
• 1:44:24
  Did they do that with a couple of rangers?
• 1:44:25
  They did.
• 1:44:26
  Petrali and Charlie Huff.
• 1:44:27
  Yeah, I think so.
• 1:44:28
  And that was unfortunate because the large majority, they maybe did that maybe once or twice.
• 1:44:33
  Deserved a single podcast.
• 1:44:35
  Yeah.
• 1:44:35
  But it is.
• 1:44:37
  It's pretty cool because they'll always get off of the.
• 1:44:40
  Here was their career.
• 1:44:42
  And then it's like, oh, and then after that, they got into real estate investing.
• 1:44:46
  Got arrested for tax evasion, like, four years after that.
• 1:44:49
  Right.
• 1:44:50
  And whatever.
• 1:44:51
  It's always good.
• 1:44:51
  I love that kind of stuff.
• 1:44:53
  Well, problem we're going to run into on Justin Larkin is apparently there's a pretty big musician that shares the same name.
• 1:44:59
  Maybe that's him.
• 1:45:00
  He shows up everywhere.
• 1:45:01
  Maybe Missouri looks a little too young, but I don't know.
• 1:45:07
  Go do your work.
• 1:45:08
  We're not trimming any of this.
• 1:45:09
  We're going to leave it all in twats, dildos and all.
• 1:45:13
  Hope everyone enjoys it.
• 1:45:15
  That is so.
• 1:45:17
  Well, it happened already.
• 1:45:18
  It's been said.
• 1:45:19
  I hope that wasn't shocking at the end.
• 1:45:21
  Well, we're both.
• 1:45:22
  You're.
• 1:45:23
  You just turned 50.
• 1:45:24
  I'm on the precipice.
• 1:45:25
  I must use that twice, man.
• 1:45:27
  That's really.
• 1:45:27
  I'm on the precipice of being 50.
• 1:45:29
  But hey, here's a little tease for what's coming up.
• 1:45:32
  Let's hear it.
• 1:45:33
  Steinbrenner.
• 1:45:34
  We're gonna do Steinbrenner.
• 1:45:35
  And then we're gonna do the World Series.
• 1:45:38
  Two parts.
• 1:45:39
  Two parts.
• 1:45:40
  Gonna do the A's first and do the Reds.
• 1:45:44
  And then we've got a non 90s podcast I'm really excited about.
• 1:45:48
  Yeah, I got confirmation on it yesterday or the day before.
• 1:45:53
  And that is Lars Anderson, former Sports Illustrated great.
• 1:46:00
  Came up in the 90s with Sports Illustrated, has kind of become the Brady guy.
• 1:46:05
  He has written a full, full biography about Brady.
• 1:46:07
  We're going to get 30 minutes with him.
• 1:46:09
  Oh, I can't.
• 1:46:09
  Here's the thing, Scott.
• 1:46:12
  I was told I asked for an hour.
• 1:46:15
  I was like, we can do an hour.
• 1:46:17
  We'll do 30 Brady, 30 old Sports Illustrated.
• 1:46:20
  I'm telling you right now that towards the tail end, when we engage him with 90s Sports Illustrated talk, or just 90s sports talk, much like Alan Ship Nuke.
• 1:46:31
  Much like Tim Brown, he's going to come alive.
• 1:46:34
  Yes.
• 1:46:36
  And want to go over 30 minutes.
• 1:46:38
  Yeah, I.
• 1:46:38
  And that, that's a.
• 1:46:39
  I, I agree.
• 1:46:40
  100.
• 1:46:41
  We'll also have a little bit of a wrap up of the year 19.
• 1:46:45
  And then once we get through with all that, our buddy Allen's coming on.
• 1:46:49
  Yep.
• 1:46:49
  Our other buddy Allen.
• 1:46:50
  Our real buddy Alan.
• 1:46:52
  Well, they're both our real buddies.
• 1:46:53
  What would he be?
• 1:46:54
  Our lifelong Buddy Allen versus our.
• 1:46:57
  Are you talking about Mr.
• 1:46:58
  Shipnut?
• 1:46:59
  Yeah.
• 1:47:00
  Are we not calling him Alan?
• 1:47:01
  Did he ask?
• 1:47:01
  I don't know.
• 1:47:03
  Anytime anything happens with Liv Golf, you see his face everywhere.
• 1:47:05
  Everybody runs to him as the live expert.
• 1:47:08
  I'm so annoyed that Liv has a bad Persona or whatever, you know what I mean?
• 1:47:17
  Now that I know a little bit more about it, I guess.
• 1:47:19
  Is it dead now?
• 1:47:20
  Is it over?
• 1:47:21
  Kind of.
• 1:47:21
  Or it's near over.
• 1:47:22
  Did you see that he wrote an article recently?
• 1:47:25
  Shipnuk did.
• 1:47:25
  And he talked to Greg Norman.
• 1:47:27
  Oh, wow.
• 1:47:28
  Norman and him talked about it.
• 1:47:30
  Did they talk about that Norman kind of got pushed out?
• 1:47:33
  No, I don't think so.
• 1:47:35
  Like they, I think they just.
• 1:47:36
  It was just like they understood.
• 1:47:38
  What do you think Norman had to say in an Australian accent, which I'm not going to try and do.
• 1:47:43
  I was going to try to.
• 1:47:44
  It always comes out British, though.
• 1:47:46
  Was going to say, though, that.
• 1:47:47
  Don't bring up the bloody picture.
• 1:47:50
  I'll talk to you, but don't bring up that bloody picture.
• 1:47:53
  I'm sure that there's been some off the record conversations.
• 1:47:56
  Yeah.
• 1:47:57
  Anyway.
• 1:47:58
  Bloody picture too.
• 1:47:59
  I don't.
• 1:47:59
  I really excited about Lars.
• 1:48:01
  I think that's going to be a fun convo.
• 1:48:03
  We still haven't gotten our books yet, though.
• 1:48:05
  No, I need to get here.
• 1:48:06
  They'll get here.
• 1:48:06
  Mail slow.
• 1:48:07
  These days, every time that I interact with the agent.
• 1:48:11
  The publicity agent.
• 1:48:12
  Yeah.
• 1:48:13
  I will say a few things.
• 1:48:15
  Like I'll either ask a couple questions and he responds to one, but not all of them.
• 1:48:22
  Do you ever have people in your life like, hey, I need three.
• 1:48:25
  And you probably get this a lot.
• 1:48:27
  Lot.
• 1:48:27
  I need three things from you.
• 1:48:29
  Yep.
• 1:48:30
  Yep.
• 1:48:30
  And then they'll answer like the second one and ignore the first and the third and it's like, how did we get this?
• 1:48:36
  How did we have a breakdown in this communication to where you don't.
• 1:48:40
  You don't answer all three things that I need from you.
• 1:48:43
  Yeah.
• 1:48:44
  That's all the time with customers.
• 1:48:46
  Or they'll just reply with looks good, let's do it.
• 1:48:49
  But there was like two or three.
• 1:48:50
  Questions and like specific things.
• 1:48:52
  I don't know what to do.
• 1:48:54
  Like.
• 1:48:54
  Yeah, like I've got.
• 1:48:55
  The lettering is red and it looks terrible.
• 1:48:57
  Do you want it to be white or blue?
• 1:48:59
  Those are my.
• 1:48:59
  And they'll be like, great.
• 1:49:01
  It's like.
• 1:49:02
  But I need you to tell me.
• 1:49:04
  Yeah.
• 1:49:04
  And then you can't just do one.
• 1:49:06
  Yeah.
• 1:49:06
  Because it's going to be wrong.
• 1:49:07
  There's another person that they've put out there.
• 1:49:11
  Yeah.
• 1:49:11
  And I responded to one of the Brady emails with a.
• 1:49:17
  This sounds great.
• 1:49:18
  Is there any chance I could get this guy?
• 1:49:21
  And I never got a response.
• 1:49:23
  Oh, you got to revisit it.
• 1:49:25
  Yeah.
• 1:49:25
  They just didn't.
• 1:49:26
  I'm thinking I'm going to send him an email immediately.
• 1:49:29
  Yeah.
• 1:49:29
  It's just a person that lives an email.
• 1:49:31
  Yeah.
• 1:49:31
  And like sped read yours and missed it.
• 1:49:35
  Yeah, I bet.
• 1:49:36
  I don't know.
• 1:49:36
  So anyway, please, let's do.
• 1:49:39
  Let's all collectively do better.
• 1:49:41
  Yeah.
• 1:49:42
  Except Justin's mom.
• 1:49:43
  She's doing great already.
• 1:49:44
  Yeah, we hope.
• 1:49:47
  The thing about that is I want them to live in my head as they are forever.
• 1:49:52
  And if I.
• 1:49:52
  You don't really want to find.
• 1:49:54
  What if I find out that they died of a drug overdose at 33, you know what I mean?
• 1:49:59
  Like, yeah.
• 1:50:00
  Gosh.
• 1:50:01
  But we.
• 1:50:01
  It was funny though, that there were multiple people at the reunion that brought either Chad or Justin up and.
• 1:50:12
  And I'd be like, I don't know.
• 1:50:13
  That's something.
• 1:50:14
  They made a mark.
• 1:50:15
  So Even if they did, even if they've passed, I mean, it's.
• 1:50:19
  It's.
• 1:50:20
  That's a.
• 1:50:20
  That's the good lining here.
• 1:50:21
  The silver lining, I should say.
• 1:50:23
  The good lining is that, hey, they made a mark.
• 1:50:26
  They were missed, right?
• 1:50:29
  Love it, Scott.
• 1:50:30
  We could have done like three podcast episodes.
• 1:50:32
  We could have just had three weeks.
• 1:50:34
  Or we could have done one podcast about the Fred McGriff Joe Carter train.
• 1:50:39
  True.
• 1:50:40
  I like too, though, that we talked about movies for the first 10 minutes and then segued into an 18 minute bit about you looking at a photograph that caused you to want to beat up Tim Brown, our favorite
• 1:50:51
  Nolan author.
• 1:50:52
  Yeah, we didn't record any of the movie talk.
• 1:50:54
  No, we didn't.
• 1:50:55
  Next time we just hit the button right when you get here and we'll get to the topic when we get to it.
• 1:50:59
  I just feel like our.
• 1:51:00
  Probably our bread and butter are like guys in their 60s that are just sitting there in their workshops and putting.
• 1:51:09
  Us on and thinking, when did I learn about dildos?
• 1:51:13
  And then to be like, I had an ex wife that was a twat.
• 1:51:17
  You know, and then maybe be like, ah, it's been forever since I've dragged some strange.
• 1:51:24
  I'm gonna do that tonight at say.
• 1:51:28
  There could still be some specific or very minute detail to the definition of twat or dragon.
• 1:51:38
  Strange that I still don't 100.
• 1:51:39
  I feel like, understand.
• 1:51:40
  Is that not an English thing too, that they call each other twats?
• 1:51:43
  I know they call each other the C words a lot.
• 1:51:45
  Yeah, yeah, but don't they call each other the T words a lot?
• 1:51:49
  I guess.
• 1:51:50
  And in an Australian.
• 1:51:52
  Expensive, like idiot.
• 1:51:53
  Yeah, yeah.
• 1:51:54
  You know?
• 1:51:55
  Yeah.
• 1:51:55
  That you're just being.
• 1:51:56
  It shouldn't be that big of a deal.
• 1:51:58
  You're just being a twat.
• 1:51:59
  Yeah, but it's also a euphemism for vagina.
• 1:52:04
  Yes.
• 1:52:07
  Do we have to flag this podcast now?
• 1:52:09
  I don't know if we do.
• 1:52:10
  I don't know what the rules are.
• 1:52:11
  We haven't cussed.
• 1:52:13
  Really, have we?
• 1:52:13
  I don't even know if we did.
• 1:52:15
  Very curious.
• 1:52:15
  If our sponsor hears this.
• 1:52:17
  Ah, they better love it.
• 1:52:20
  We probably should go.
• 1:52:21
  I'm gonna go buy some stuff.
• 1:52:24
  Out of guilt.
• 1:52:25
  It's gonna make us feel better.
• 1:52:26
  Out of guilt.
• 1:52:27
  The problem is, is I've been staring at rain for 20 minutes as if it's like frogs flying, you know, falling from the sky like a magnolia.
• 1:52:36
  Gosh, I wonder if we could do a magnolia episode.
• 1:52:40
  I think we could.
• 1:52:40
  What year?
• 1:52:41
  96.
• 1:52:42
  99.
• 1:52:43
  9.
• 1:52:43
  Oh, gosh, it just sneaks into our decade.
• 1:52:46
  99.
• 1:52:46
  You could do literally.
• 1:52:48
  I mean, there have been books.
• 1:52:49
  How are we going to get to that?
• 1:52:51
  How are we going to get Magnolia into an episode?
• 1:52:53
  Because would it be like, we need.
• 1:52:58
  There's someone in that.
• 1:52:59
  That movie that also was in a sports movie where we're going to say, oh, yeah, they also in Magnolia were.
• 1:53:04
  That's that.
• 1:53:05
  I think that's the next frontier for us.
• 1:53:07
  Riley was.
• 1:53:07
  We're getting in with the authors in.
• 1:53:10
  Perfect.
• 1:53:10
  I wonder if we can get in.
• 1:53:12
  90S, was it?
• 1:53:13
  What's that?
• 1:53:14
  Where, where, where, where John C.
• 1:53:17
  Riley is the catcher for Kevin Costner.
• 1:53:20
  Perfect Game.
• 1:53:20
  Well, that's a 90s movie.
• 1:53:21
  It was the love of the games in the 90s.
• 1:53:23
  I think it's 98.
• 1:53:24
  We get to that.
• 1:53:24
  We'll.
• 1:53:25
  We'll also.
• 1:53:25
  I took a lady.
• 1:53:26
  The reason I know that is because I took a lady.
• 1:53:28
  Oh, man.
• 1:53:29
  To watch that with me.
• 1:53:31
  Did you have.
• 1:53:32
  That was clarifying questions on terms that you were aware of, you think, or.
• 1:53:36
  No, no.
• 1:53:38
  In 1990.
• 1:53:39
  What you think?
• 1:53:40
  78, I think is when.
• 1:53:42
  Okay.
• 1:53:42
  Love the game.
• 1:53:43
  I I.
• 1:53:44
  But I knew that because there wasn't a lot of dates.
• 1:53:47
  Yeah.
• 1:53:47
  In the 2000s.
• 1:53:49
  Did that work out?
• 1:53:50
  I re.
• 1:53:51
  Watched that one not too long ago.
• 1:53:53
  I kind of feel like that movie holds up.
• 1:53:55
  I think the baseball stuff is great.
• 1:53:58
  Mainly because of Vin Scully.
• 1:54:00
  Yes.
• 1:54:00
  Who evidently wrote like, they gave him what was happening in the game and he wrote his words.
• 1:54:07
  Well, I think they.
• 1:54:09
  Yeah, they gave him.
• 1:54:10
  And then he said, this is not how it would be said.
• 1:54:13
  Right.
• 1:54:13
  But I'm pretty sure that.
• 1:54:15
  And I know that there's.
• 1:54:16
  There's definitely some flowery language in there.
• 1:54:19
  Yes.
• 1:54:20
  That is very movie talk.
• 1:54:21
  Yeah.
• 1:54:22
  But it's Vin Scully's version of that because Disney's, like, reaches back one more time into the heavens to summon up the courage, man.
• 1:54:33
  The other one I just rewatched was the Fan.
• 1:54:36
  That's just a masterpiece of.
• 1:54:39
  Of Chaos.
• 1:54:42
  Was good.
• 1:54:43
  Oh, no, I don't think it's a good movie.
• 1:54:45
  It is early.
• 1:54:46
  Early Benicio.
• 1:54:48
  Yes.
• 1:54:48
  Awesome.
• 1:54:49
  Early Benicio.
• 1:54:51
  It's.
• 1:54:51
  It's Unhinged.
• 1:54:52
  De Niro.
• 1:54:53
  Which is the best De Niro, other than maybe the Focker.
• 1:54:57
  I kid you not.
• 1:54:58
  I read that book before the movie came out.
• 1:55:00
  I didn't even know it was a book.
• 1:55:01
  And there is a.
• 1:55:04
  If you don't know the fan, it's basically about an obsessed fan who is a.
• 1:55:09
  Is obsessed with the.
• 1:55:11
  In the book.
• 1:55:12
  I think it probably is different, but the movie, it is.
• 1:55:15
  And somehow they got MLB to sign off on this.
• 1:55:17
  Yeah, he's a Giants fan.
• 1:55:19
  Yes.
• 1:55:19
  And they're in San Francisco.
• 1:55:22
  But there is an.
• 1:55:22
  I remember this.
• 1:55:23
  There is a scene in the book where he's trying to race back and forth because he's a single dad.
• 1:55:29
  He's trying to race back and forth either from a game and a son's event or something.
• 1:55:35
  No, he took his son to the game.
• 1:55:37
  But he's also trying to close a sale for work.
• 1:55:39
  Yes.
• 1:55:40
  Where the bosses basically said one more screw up.
• 1:55:42
  I don't think this is in the movie, but it's in the book.
• 1:55:45
  And that is.
• 1:55:46
  He has to pee real bad.
• 1:55:47
  And he pees into a, like, McDonald's cup and then spills it all over himself before he gets to the cell man.
• 1:55:56
  In the book.
• 1:55:57
  And I just remember going, that's my worst nightmare is to be soaked in my own urine.
• 1:56:02
  I have to think De Niro was like, I'm not doing that.
• 1:56:04
  I mean, you're cutting that spot.
• 1:56:06
  It's.
• 1:56:06
  Yeah, it's.
• 1:56:07
  I don't even know how you would do that.
• 1:56:08
  Like, it just becomes comedy at that point.
• 1:56:10
  And yeah.
• 1:56:11
  Tony Scott turns it into like freaking man on fire.
• 1:56:15
  Yeah.
• 1:56:15
  Like, it's.
• 1:56:16
  He's just full tilt boogie in that movie.
• 1:56:18
  Yes.
• 1:56:19
  Yeah.
• 1:56:19
  Because they.
• 1:56:20
  The final scene is just a pouring, blinding rainstorm.
• 1:56:24
  Yep.
• 1:56:24
  And I remember the story of them coming to Tony Scott and being like this.
• 1:56:29
  You can't.
• 1:56:29
  Like, he's an Australian.
• 1:56:30
  He doesn't know about baseball.
• 1:56:31
  Yeah.
• 1:56:32
  It's like, we would stop playing the game.
• 1:56:33
  And he's like, well, we're not stopping it in this movie.
• 1:56:36
  Yeah, exactly.
• 1:56:37
  And it's dramatic as hell.
• 1:56:38
  And this is how we're doing the finale, the climax.
• 1:56:41
  We'll have to watch it.
• 1:56:42
  Yeah, let's get.
• 1:56:45
  Get Grace to watch it.
• 1:56:46
  So.
• 1:56:46
  All right.
• 1:56:47
  All right, Scott.
• 1:56:47
  Well, we have just about two hours.
• 1:56:51
  Yeah.
• 1:56:52
  That's great, though, that this trade.
• 1:56:53
  Now we're going to play who texts us first.
• 1:56:58
  What the hell was going on today, guys?
• 1:56:59
  Yes.
• 1:57:01
  Now, anyway, until next time.
• 1:57:03
  That's right.
• 1:57:04
  Until next time.
• 1:57:05
  All right, we'll see you.
• 1:57:06
  Thanks for listening.
• 1:57:06
  Yep.
• 1:57:06
  Thanks.