Latest / Millennial Mental Health Channel / Banning Phones/Improving Focus

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Banning Phones/Improving Focus · Millennial Mental Health Channel

0:02
Speaker 1: Welcome to MMHC, your go to mental health podcast.
0:06
Speaker 2: I'm Eddie Coreo, a licensed professional counselor.
0:08
Speaker 1: And I'm Justin Romano, a Board certified Child and adolescent psychiatrist.
0:12
Speaker 2: We created MMHC to give listeners evidence based information directly
0:16
Speaker 2: from professionals who work in mental health.
0:18
Speaker 1: We're not influencers, we're not trying to sell you anything.
0:21
Speaker 1: We just want to bring love, empathy, and understanding of
0:24
Speaker 1: mental health into this world.
0:26
Speaker 2: And we really think that learning about mental health should
0:28
Speaker 2: be fun, interesting, and most importantly honest.
0:31
Speaker 1: So thanks for tuning in. This is a show by
0:33
Speaker 1: two millennials, but it is intended to be for everyone.
0:36
Speaker 1: We hope you enjoy the show. MMHC is a production
0:42
Speaker 1: of Speaker from iHeartMedia, I HEARTMA. Hello and welcome back
0:50
Speaker 1: to MMHC.
0:52
Speaker 2: Eddie.
0:52
Speaker 1: Do you remember what your ring tone was in high school?
0:57
Speaker 2: Well, part.
1:00
Speaker 1: Just any ring or your favorite ringtone?
1:03
Speaker 2: Oh that's even better. I think high school was still
1:06
Speaker 2: back when I didn't have a smartphone until I left
1:08
Speaker 2: for college. So this is not until August twenty eleven,
1:12
Speaker 2: but if we're gonna go favorite. Kevin gives me shit
1:14
Speaker 2: about this because we had a discussion that I'm like, no,
1:17
Speaker 2: people definitely still use like ringtones that they buy nowadays,
1:21
Speaker 2: and she's like, no, they don't, and I was like, fuck,
1:24
Speaker 2: maybe they don't. To this day. My ringtone is still
1:28
Speaker 2: I bought it. It was Adorn by Miguel Singer. Yeah,
1:34
Speaker 2: it's been the same ringtone since like twenty twelve, so
1:36
Speaker 2: I'm going on thirteen years. Whoa, I haven't changed it. Man,
1:42
Speaker 2: My things on silence anyway, it's just vibrating. So yeah,
1:48
Speaker 2: I never hear it, but it's still there. If I
1:50
Speaker 2: put it on, it's it's the same song.
1:53
Speaker 1: Man, that's hilarious.
1:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, what did you have a long time?
1:57
Speaker 1: You know, I can't honestly remember, I think, man, at
2:03
Speaker 1: the time, I think I just would use whatever was
2:07
Speaker 1: default on the phone because I was cheap and.
2:12
Speaker 2: You weren't trying to spend ninety nine cents on a
2:15
Speaker 2: I don't know.
2:16
Speaker 1: There was also one of the things that like my
2:18
Speaker 1: parents would be like, we're not doing that. You can
2:20
Speaker 1: like wait for your birthday and get it as a
2:23
Speaker 1: birthday president or something, and I was just like, I
2:25
Speaker 1: don't really care.
2:26
Speaker 2: Do you remember a ring back tones? And yeah, those
2:30
Speaker 2: were pretty sick I never got one.
2:34
Speaker 1: My brother had one and it was Stewie from family Guy,
2:38
Speaker 1: just saying, who the hell do you think you are?
2:42
Speaker 1: Hell do you think you're doing? And it was just
2:46
Speaker 1: you call them and that's all you hear and be like,
2:48
Speaker 1: what is do you remember.
2:50
Speaker 2: What would happen if the person either like ended their
2:54
Speaker 2: subscription or didn't choose a song. It was a it
2:57
Speaker 2: was a very specific classical like oh, it was like do.
3:02
Speaker 1: Do That's one of my buddies had that for years
3:11
Speaker 1: because he was just lazy and was like, I'm not
3:14
Speaker 1: buying another one.
3:15
Speaker 2: Well, and I bet after a certain amount of time
3:17
Speaker 2: they just like slowly phased it out and just couldn't
3:21
Speaker 2: even change it.
3:23
Speaker 1: Here. I want to google it. When did ring back
3:26
Speaker 1: tones stop? And for all those young people out here,
3:30
Speaker 1: a ring back tone was when you called, you didn't
3:33
Speaker 1: hear the you heard just like a song playing. Yeah,
3:39
Speaker 1: And it was a great idea and it sounds like
3:41
Speaker 1: it came to a final end in late twenty twenty,
3:44
Speaker 1: so another victim of potemic.
3:46
Speaker 2: Fucking COVID man, do you remember did you ever do
3:51
Speaker 2: that thing where one there's two I'm keeping us off topic.
3:55
Speaker 2: There was two of them like people would either do
3:58
Speaker 2: like on their voiceman message it'd be like, hello, hey,
4:01
Speaker 2: look what do you hold on? I can't hear you
4:04
Speaker 2: And they'd be like, I just kidding, leave me a message.
4:05
Speaker 2: But then the other one would be people would put
4:08
Speaker 2: songs as like their voicemail.
4:12
Speaker 1: I don't think we ever did that in Wyoming.
4:16
Speaker 2: I thought it was cool as ship.
4:17
Speaker 1: But he makes people sit through a long song, just
4:21
Speaker 1: a little that long.
4:22
Speaker 2: Just a little bit, yeah, just a little little snippet.
4:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is what we had to do before we
4:27
Speaker 1: had smartphones. We just had to come up with stuff,
4:31
Speaker 1: stupid stuff to do.
4:33
Speaker 2: Or on the phone too, you could record and then
4:36
Speaker 2: make that your ringtones. Did you ever do that? Oh
4:38
Speaker 2: yes a few times. Yeah. Man, times have changed, Times
4:43
Speaker 2: have changed.
4:44
Speaker 1: But you know so if you couldn't tell, we're talking
4:47
Speaker 1: about ring tones, mostly ring tones and ring back tones,
4:51
Speaker 1: that's really the topic for today.
4:54
Speaker 2: Get ready for thirty minutes of our favorite ring back
4:59
Speaker 2: tones for thirty minutes.
5:03
Speaker 1: Man, But we wanted to wish Eddie a happy back
5:06
Speaker 1: to school. He's back in school, the kids are back,
5:09
Speaker 1: the students are back than you, and it sounds like
5:11
Speaker 1: he's pretty.
5:11
Speaker 2: Pumped I'm hyped, man, this is my fucking game day.
5:16
Speaker 2: I've been I've been ready. We just I was talking
5:19
Speaker 2: to one of the associo principles and he was kind
5:22
Speaker 2: of like, he's like, yeah, I guess for you, there's
5:24
Speaker 2: not really like a workup. You just kind of like
5:27
Speaker 2: you just start like there's no really like ease into it.
5:30
Speaker 2: I was like, no, I've been ready. I tell him,
5:33
Speaker 2: this is my line. I always let people know, if
5:34
Speaker 2: you stay ready, you never got to get ready. So
5:36
Speaker 2: I'm in. I was, I was ready for it. We
5:40
Speaker 2: worked through the professional development meetings. I learned about grading
5:43
Speaker 2: and assessment, which applies so much to my job. And
5:49
Speaker 2: now the kids are back. Man. So today was the
5:51
Speaker 2: first day. It was exciting, it was fun. But the
5:53
Speaker 2: big thing that changed that we're going to talk about
5:56
Speaker 2: as a cell phone band and in Oregon and then
5:59
Speaker 2: it looks like now thirty five states have put some
6:02
Speaker 2: type of legislation in place for either this school year
6:05
Speaker 2: or the start of next school year, like they'll have
6:07
Speaker 2: until next to fall. Oregon was one of those states.
6:11
Speaker 2: And just to kind of give a little bit of
6:12
Speaker 2: background on how we got to this point. I'm on
6:15
Speaker 2: the leadership team at our school, and we had talked
6:17
Speaker 2: about in like April, maybe like March April May kind
6:21
Speaker 2: of when the long legislative session was happening, that this
6:24
Speaker 2: was coming, that people were talking about it, that they
6:26
Speaker 2: were trying to push this through, and so we kind
6:28
Speaker 2: of prepared and we'd already made the decision like, hey,
6:30
Speaker 2: when school comes back, we're doing a bell to bell
6:34
Speaker 2: cell phone band and I'll talk about what that means
6:35
Speaker 2: a little bit. And ultimately it didn't pass in the
6:39
Speaker 2: sessions and people were kind of surprised. But then Oregon's Governor,
6:42
Speaker 2: Tina Kotek just decided she was going to sign in
6:44
Speaker 2: an executive to order and she did, and she's giving
6:47
Speaker 2: all school districts in the state of Oregon, I think
6:50
Speaker 2: until October thirty, first to Halloween to put some type
6:54
Speaker 2: of bell to bell cell phone policy into place. And
6:59
Speaker 2: with bell to bell means is no phones nothing as
7:02
Speaker 2: soon as you walk in the building until the last
7:04
Speaker 2: bell rings for the day. You can't have it out
7:07
Speaker 2: when you walk into class, you can't have it out
7:09
Speaker 2: during lunch, you definitely can't have it out during class.
7:11
Speaker 2: And that's it. That's just kind of what we're going
7:13
Speaker 2: to do. And today was our first day with all students.
7:16
Speaker 2: We had freshman yesterday, so today was all sixteen hundred
7:19
Speaker 2: plus and it was interesting. We had about eighty phones
7:25
Speaker 2: taken away from what I heard, I didn't get the
7:28
Speaker 2: final count. And yeah, I mean, we'll kind of see
7:31
Speaker 2: how it goes. It's definitely an interesting time. I have
7:33
Speaker 2: a lot of thoughts and feelings about it. I know
7:36
Speaker 2: a lot of other people have thoughts and feelings about it.
7:38
Speaker 2: But yeah, we'll see. Today was day one of one
7:41
Speaker 2: hundred and eighty, so we'll see what happens.
7:43
Speaker 1: We were talking about it earlier too, that your school
7:46
Speaker 1: is going full throttle off the get go. That's I
7:50
Speaker 1: think that's probably the best way to do it. Yeah,
7:53
Speaker 1: and just try and set the message at the beginning
7:55
Speaker 1: of the school year like, hey, we're not taking this
7:58
Speaker 1: is a joke, Like we're taking this seriously. You use
8:01
Speaker 1: your phone, it gets taken away.
8:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, And one of the hard parts was kids nowadays,
8:06
Speaker 2: and even when you and I were in college during
8:08
Speaker 2: that time, you look up your it's the first day
8:11
Speaker 2: of class, where's my lecture hall? You look it up
8:14
Speaker 2: on your phone, right, And so these kids are trying
8:16
Speaker 2: to look up their schedule. A lot of kids got
8:18
Speaker 2: their phone. I shouldn't laughed, but a lot of kids
8:20
Speaker 2: got their phone taken away trying to look up their schedule.
8:23
Speaker 2: And so we ultimately a lot of a lot of
8:25
Speaker 2: schedules had to be printed by our counseling center and
8:27
Speaker 2: our secretary. It was an adjustment. You know, some things
8:31
Speaker 2: we'll have to learn. The other part of the rule
8:33
Speaker 2: that helps kind of keep everybody accountable, not just students,
8:38
Speaker 2: but parents too and caregivers and guardians is the kids
8:41
Speaker 2: aren't allowed to pick up their phone at the end
8:43
Speaker 2: of the day. It has to be a parent their guardian.
8:45
Speaker 2: So you're not getting the phone back, yeah, until your
8:47
Speaker 2: parent or guardian comes to get it. And here's the thing.
8:52
Speaker 2: The school, the school district is middle upper middle class.
8:56
Speaker 2: Some people past that, right, So some people have the
8:59
Speaker 2: privilege of mom and dad could just come in the
9:01
Speaker 2: middle of the day and pick it up, no big deal.
9:03
Speaker 2: Other people do not, and so they've had to figure
9:06
Speaker 2: it out in real time. Okay, what do we do
9:08
Speaker 2: for the people who mom and dad and guardian can't
9:11
Speaker 2: come pick it up before we leave for the day,
9:13
Speaker 2: leave school? You know, so definitely some parents who did
9:15
Speaker 2: not look thrilled today when they came to pick up
9:17
Speaker 2: the phones. We got some positive feedback from some parents
9:20
Speaker 2: that was cool, and I'm sure others were frustrated. I
9:23
Speaker 2: totally get it. It's a big change. Anytime you make
9:25
Speaker 2: a big sweeping change, it's not going to go great
9:28
Speaker 2: in the beginning. There's growing pains for sure. But yeah,
9:31
Speaker 2: I mean I appreciate our district and our staff and
9:34
Speaker 2: our admin of like, yeah, we're not even doing like
9:37
Speaker 2: an onboarding period. It's just day one. We've communicated enough.
9:42
Speaker 2: This is what the rule is, and that is that. Sorry,
9:46
Speaker 2: if you got your phone taken away today, tomorrow's a
9:48
Speaker 2: new day.
9:49
Speaker 1: Well, it sounds like we need to call dunder Mifflin
9:51
Speaker 1: because paper is back.
9:52
Speaker 2: Baby. What was that one jingle they had. It was
9:57
Speaker 2: the people person paper people, something like that. Donder myth.
10:05
Speaker 2: I don't even know.
10:05
Speaker 1: I must have missed that episode.
10:07
Speaker 2: God damn it. Justin I mean, yeah, I think a
10:10
Speaker 2: lot of people, a lot of teachers are going to
10:13
Speaker 2: move to paper pencil. Let's bring it back. We're back, baby,
10:17
Speaker 2: whoa by stalking graphight?
10:19
Speaker 1: We're in the graph height market is going to explode.
10:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, little blue Books. We're back.
10:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, so Eddie mentioned a couple of these, but to
10:31
Speaker 1: cite our sources from the Associated Press Jeff Amy, August
10:35
Speaker 1: twenty first, twenty twenty five, at least an article in
10:38
Speaker 1: the Associated Press. Seventeen states and the District of Columbia
10:42
Speaker 1: have put in some form of cell phone ban this
10:45
Speaker 1: year alone. A total of thirty five states now have
10:48
Speaker 1: some law limiting phone use and electronics in schools. Now,
10:52
Speaker 1: about one in four countries throughout the world have laws
10:55
Speaker 1: banning cell phones in schools. States with no laws include
11:01
Speaker 1: my Home, Wyoming, Go pokes with Wiscynson, Michigan. Surprised about
11:09
Speaker 1: that one, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Illinois. Those are kind of
11:13
Speaker 1: the big ones that have not had any sort of
11:16
Speaker 1: bands yet. But it's cool that this does appear to
11:19
Speaker 1: be a bipartisan effort and both sides of the aisle
11:22
Speaker 1: appear to be getting behind this. In a world where
11:25
Speaker 1: we can't agree on about much of anything these days,
11:28
Speaker 1: we can agree that phones in school seem like a
11:30
Speaker 1: bad idea. So hey, you know, hope for hope for us.
11:34
Speaker 2: Actually, you know, this brings up something I wanted to
11:37
Speaker 2: talk about in an address real quick and I don't
11:39
Speaker 2: want to. I think it's just important we talk about it.
11:41
Speaker 2: I think anytime the cell phone ban idea has come up,
11:45
Speaker 2: you hear a lot of reasons why we shouldn't. And
11:48
Speaker 2: one of the reasons that gets brought up a lot,
11:49
Speaker 2: which I think is fair to think about, is what
11:52
Speaker 2: happens in the case of a school shooting. And unfortunately,
11:55
Speaker 2: like that's like a real thing that happens, and that
11:57
Speaker 2: we think about it so many thoughts and feelings related
12:01
Speaker 2: to that. I think what's really hard is that both
12:03
Speaker 2: issues there's some overlap, but they're also separate, right, Like,
12:07
Speaker 2: I think research has shown that like in the event
12:10
Speaker 2: of a school shooting, like cell phone calls out and
12:13
Speaker 2: text messages, those lines get locked up and it's really
12:17
Speaker 2: hard to communicate and at times can even impact in
12:20
Speaker 2: law enforcements and helps ability to get in contact with
12:23
Speaker 2: people in the space. And I think people with an
12:27
Speaker 2: argument of like, well, it's a child's last opportunity to
12:29
Speaker 2: say bye, and I can understand all of that, And
12:31
Speaker 2: I think what's really hard is that we've just gotten
12:33
Speaker 2: to a point where like the two arguments are going
12:36
Speaker 2: against each other when they're just kind of there's some overlap,
12:39
Speaker 2: but they both can be true and separate. There should
12:41
Speaker 2: be no reason why there's there's school shootings, and unfortunately
12:44
Speaker 2: there was one today August seven, Minneapolis this morning, had
12:49
Speaker 2: a Catholic school And it's like, none of that should
12:52
Speaker 2: be happening, right, none of that should be going on.
12:54
Speaker 2: And that's where we're at right now in our country,
12:57
Speaker 2: and it's real shitty. And I think it's hard because
13:00
Speaker 2: a cell phone ban and trying to kind of take
13:02
Speaker 2: back and give kids an opportunity to think and learn
13:06
Speaker 2: and have an attention span again, and adults too. I've
13:09
Speaker 2: barely had my phone the last week. It's been pretty good.
13:12
Speaker 2: It's definitely been a challenge, but it's been good. We're
13:16
Speaker 2: trying to give everyone an opportunity to earn or to
13:19
Speaker 2: learn that back. But then also that's a real fear
13:22
Speaker 2: that people have, and so I understand all of it.
13:24
Speaker 2: I just think it's important to mention it, like, unfortunately
13:27
Speaker 2: this has happened fucking today this morning. We just got
13:30
Speaker 2: back in session for a lot of places, and it
13:33
Speaker 2: shouldn't be a reality in our country. It is, and
13:35
Speaker 2: it really fucking sucks. But I just at least want
13:37
Speaker 2: to point out that while we're talking about this today,
13:40
Speaker 2: it's not to say that like this is the best
13:43
Speaker 2: thing ever and it needs to happen, and like we're
13:46
Speaker 2: not trying to disregard the arguments of like what about
13:49
Speaker 2: then the event of an emergency, right, and I think
13:53
Speaker 2: very real concerns. So that is that I will kind
13:58
Speaker 2: of clap my hands like the end of a movie filming.
14:01
Speaker 2: Then we'll move to the next point and cut. Thank you.
14:06
Speaker 2: In terms of how schools are doing this, it depends
14:09
Speaker 2: on the state, right, it depends on the district. You know,
14:12
Speaker 2: some districts are just deciding to do it on their own.
14:15
Speaker 2: The main things we have are like the magnetic pouch,
14:18
Speaker 2: the Yonder pouches buystock and Yonder pouch. I guess where
14:22
Speaker 2: they kind of put them in, and it's very strong magnet.
14:24
Speaker 2: You can't open it. Some people have like a special
14:27
Speaker 2: locker or place for students to put it. Some teachers
14:29
Speaker 2: will have them put them up in like a little
14:31
Speaker 2: caddy at the front of their classroom. Some schools are
14:35
Speaker 2: going with like an off and away policy, so as
14:36
Speaker 2: long as it's out of sight and it's not being used,
14:39
Speaker 2: and that's totally fine. Kevia has showed me or shared
14:42
Speaker 2: with me, I'm gonna butcher. It's either article or a
14:46
Speaker 2: podcast episode where basically they talked about how even just
14:49
Speaker 2: a phone being on your desk is a big distraction
14:52
Speaker 2: in itself, and even if you're not using it, just
14:54
Speaker 2: it being there. So it's essentially we're trying to put
14:57
Speaker 2: as much barrier in between a student in their phone
15:01
Speaker 2: or a person and their phone as possible. So that's
15:03
Speaker 2: what a lot of places are doing. The hard part though,
15:04
Speaker 2: if you look at it, magnetic pouches very expensive, like
15:08
Speaker 2: they can run a pretty huge bill for school districts,
15:11
Speaker 2: and in a time where where school districts might be
15:13
Speaker 2: hurting for money, they might not have access to that.
15:16
Speaker 2: So districts are trying to get a little creative with
15:19
Speaker 2: how they do it.
15:20
Speaker 1: But you heard it here, Man Eddie is bullish on
15:22
Speaker 1: Yonder pouch. So go bye bye and bye.
15:25
Speaker 2: Location location location.
15:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a good point that it seems like everyone's
15:31
Speaker 1: doing their own different thing because this hasn't really been researched,
15:35
Speaker 1: This hasn't really been studied to show this is going
15:38
Speaker 1: to be the best way to prevent kids from using
15:41
Speaker 1: their phones in school. We're just trying to catch up
15:44
Speaker 1: and try things that are going to work without actually
15:47
Speaker 1: basing it on any sort of public health data or.
15:50
Speaker 2: Anything like that. And we're doing it live. I mean,
15:53
Speaker 2: that's really it. Like there's no other way. It's to
15:55
Speaker 2: the point where like the put your phone away is
16:00
Speaker 2: just not enough, Yes, the police pay attention is just
16:03
Speaker 2: not enough, right, And so they're trying things. And again
16:05
Speaker 2: I've said this before, anytime a big sweeping change comes
16:09
Speaker 2: into play, it's not going to be perfect. There's going
16:13
Speaker 2: to be a lot of mess in between. So it's
16:15
Speaker 2: just trying something new and I can at least appreciate
16:18
Speaker 2: that trying something new in the hopes that it'll stick well.
16:30
Speaker 1: N Eddie brought this up a little bit earlier, but
16:32
Speaker 1: in researching this episode, actually parents provided a lot of
16:36
Speaker 1: the resistance for yes own bands in school because they
16:41
Speaker 1: do want to be able to communicate with their children
16:43
Speaker 1: in an emergency situation, and I certainly don't blame them
16:46
Speaker 1: for that, But from the students perspective, there was a
16:50
Speaker 1: New York Times article from November twenty twenty three that
16:53
Speaker 1: said a lot of students really want to listen to
16:55
Speaker 1: music in school and that's what they primarily do with
16:59
Speaker 1: their phone, so that kind of changes the dynamic there.
17:03
Speaker 1: The same article shows that a lot of in person
17:06
Speaker 1: bullying actually happens on phones. Think about all the videos
17:10
Speaker 1: you've seen of like some kid crashing out in school
17:14
Speaker 1: and someone taking a video and then posting that later,
17:17
Speaker 1: or like gym bullying. You see people like taking videos
17:21
Speaker 1: of people who like making fun of other people at
17:23
Speaker 1: the gym. Like that kind of stuff happening in school.
17:25
Speaker 1: So hopefully this will also help to a reduction in
17:28
Speaker 1: some of the.
17:28
Speaker 2: Bullying that happens.
17:31
Speaker 1: A lot of young people were thinking that a complete
17:33
Speaker 1: band goes too far, and then actually in that New
17:36
Speaker 1: York Times article, one student said, I had a really
17:39
Speaker 1: wonderful point, as an intelligent young person said, Well, banning
17:43
Speaker 1: the phones in schools doesn't really solve the issue of
17:46
Speaker 1: how addictive phones are.
17:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great point. Yeah. I mean as I
17:51
Speaker 2: left for the day, there was a large number of
17:54
Speaker 2: students straight into their phone right like aon a school ended.
17:57
Speaker 2: So I get I can. I can understand that we
18:01
Speaker 2: just don't know we're doing it live, and so that
18:04
Speaker 2: makes it really tough. Yeah, we're doing it live.
18:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, any other stories of things that you've seen kids
18:12
Speaker 1: doing that you're like, oh, you probably shouldn't be doing
18:14
Speaker 1: that in school. I think the example I want to
18:16
Speaker 1: give is like, I've got a lot of parents coming
18:18
Speaker 1: into my office telling me, you know, my kids texting
18:20
Speaker 1: me all day, you know, when they're at school, saying
18:24
Speaker 1: like I hate this, please take me out of school,
18:26
Speaker 1: call me in sick. Like the kids are like nagging
18:29
Speaker 1: their parents to try and get them to take them
18:31
Speaker 1: out of school, which is an unintended consequence of having
18:34
Speaker 1: NonStop communication with your parents all the time. But I
18:36
Speaker 1: think it's really interesting you're in the schools, so I'm
18:39
Speaker 1: curious to see if you've got any other examples.
18:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, that one for sure. I think a lot of
18:45
Speaker 2: a lot of parents are used to kid right away
18:48
Speaker 2: something goes wrong, like I need to go home, and
18:50
Speaker 2: that could be good or bad, right, It could be
18:52
Speaker 2: if a parent is able to like, hey, you'll be okay,
18:54
Speaker 2: it'll be fine, okay, cool, I'm fine. But if it
18:56
Speaker 2: turns into like a lot of picking up and stuff
18:59
Speaker 2: and leaving school and kind of avoidance, then that makes
19:01
Speaker 2: it really hard to That's what makes things like this
19:04
Speaker 2: really hard today. If having to go through the whole
19:06
Speaker 2: school day without like communicating with anyone because I'm so
19:09
Speaker 2: used to talking to somebody. I think your point of
19:12
Speaker 2: like the bullying, for sure, like a lot of kids
19:15
Speaker 2: feel really uncomfortable being themselves and being open in class
19:19
Speaker 2: for fear of being filmed and for fear of like
19:22
Speaker 2: someone oh, catching what they're doing wrong and then posting it.
19:26
Speaker 2: There's it's happened at our school, it's happened at other schools.
19:29
Speaker 2: People will make anonymous Instagram pages and they'll post, you know,
19:34
Speaker 2: videos of somebody doing something embarrassing, and like there's not
19:37
Speaker 2: a whole lot they can do about it, right, because
19:39
Speaker 2: then even even the school's hands are tied of like
19:41
Speaker 2: how do we discipline someone if we don't know who
19:43
Speaker 2: it is? Or can you really discipline someone for what
19:45
Speaker 2: they do outside of school hours? Right? So that makes
19:47
Speaker 2: it really hard. I think the other hard part is,
19:50
Speaker 2: you know, kids we're using and are using texting to
19:53
Speaker 2: figure out where each other is and then meeting up
19:55
Speaker 2: in the bathroom and doing not so great things, right,
19:58
Speaker 2: whether there's drugs or you know, the more intimate things.
20:01
Speaker 2: They're doing things that don't so great during the school day.
20:03
Speaker 2: So the hope is a lot of that stuff gets reduced.
20:06
Speaker 2: Another thing we talked about was just how many kids
20:08
Speaker 2: we're doing food delivery services. We've talked about this at
20:12
Speaker 2: the school. Is it's bad, man, let me that bad.
20:20
Speaker 2: We have a whole big table in our vestibule area
20:24
Speaker 2: that's just for food delivery apps, and it's it's sectioned
20:28
Speaker 2: off by Uber Eats, Stoordash, grub Hub. Just kids spend
20:33
Speaker 2: a lot of money. That's another piece to it too.
20:36
Speaker 2: The difficulty with being able to pay attention because you're
20:38
Speaker 2: so used to being on your phone and stuff. There's
20:40
Speaker 2: just it's a lot. But the flip side of it
20:42
Speaker 2: is like phones are such great tools. You forgot your
20:45
Speaker 2: wallet in the car, cool, I have Apple Pay. I
20:48
Speaker 2: can still buy this drink or this snack from the
20:50
Speaker 2: venue machine and I'm good to go. I can reach
20:53
Speaker 2: out to someone if I need to. Oh, my boss
20:55
Speaker 2: just sent me a message. I can check if my
20:57
Speaker 2: shift change, Oh, coaches moving practice of this time. Instead
21:00
Speaker 2: of that, like there's a lot that phones, They're just
21:02
Speaker 2: part of our daily life. And even if for me,
21:05
Speaker 2: I have kept my phone in my office a lot
21:08
Speaker 2: more this past week and a half there's still things
21:10
Speaker 2: I need it for if I'm getting like a chat
21:12
Speaker 2: like hey, I need you right away, or a calendar reminder,
21:14
Speaker 2: things like that. So it's hard. The phones are so
21:17
Speaker 2: intertwined into our lives. It's hard to find a medium
21:20
Speaker 2: when we've been where we've been for so long.
21:24
Speaker 1: Yes, So what does the research actually say about technology
21:28
Speaker 1: in schools? There was a good paper from Sampas Kaninga
21:33
Speaker 1: at All twenty twenty two in the International Journal of
21:36
Speaker 1: Environmental Research and Public Health looking at Canadian students based
21:40
Speaker 1: on self report data, that thirty five point eight percent
21:44
Speaker 1: of students use their screens or device for five hours
21:47
Speaker 1: a day, eighteen point six percent had moderate to serious
21:51
Speaker 1: symptoms of problem technology use, and the prevalence of problematic
21:55
Speaker 1: technology use was actually higher in females than in males,
21:58
Speaker 1: and heavy technology use was associated with lower academic performance
22:02
Speaker 1: and lower levels of school connectedness. And one of the
22:05
Speaker 1: points that Eddie I Know brought up a couple of
22:07
Speaker 1: episodes ago was that usually your success in academics and
22:11
Speaker 1: your mental well being is often tied to how connected
22:14
Speaker 1: you are to your school. So the more you have
22:17
Speaker 1: your phone, the more you're on your phone. Trying to
22:19
Speaker 1: be somewhere else mentally, the less you're connected to your
22:23
Speaker 1: school and the actually your success rates go down significantly too.
22:26
Speaker 2: Nowadays, I hate saying that because I sound old, Like
22:29
Speaker 2: a lot of kids and people have relationships with people,
22:32
Speaker 2: friendships online and virtually so like that you're connected that way,
22:36
Speaker 2: but you're not connected to the people you're physically around.
22:38
Speaker 2: So it's kind of that balance of like, yeah, just
22:41
Speaker 2: school connected iss is so important to identifying how well
22:45
Speaker 2: someone can do, not even just like academically, just like
22:48
Speaker 2: how well how they're well being is is just school
22:51
Speaker 2: connectedness is super important. And we've talked about this, but
22:55
Speaker 2: I think something that's also probably contributed to this is
22:57
Speaker 2: how much technology has been introduce used into schools. Right
23:02
Speaker 2: when we were in high school, no such thing as
23:05
Speaker 2: here's a chromebook, here's an iPad. A little bit after
23:09
Speaker 2: we left school, that started to happen, and I get it,
23:11
Speaker 2: like that's a great technological piece. But kids are getting
23:15
Speaker 2: their hands on technology a lot quicker. Our school district,
23:18
Speaker 2: every kid has a chromebook. In the younger grades, everyone
23:20
Speaker 2: has an iPad. I think iPads might stay at school
23:24
Speaker 2: and stuff like that, but everyone has some kind of technology,
23:29
Speaker 2: and you would think with how quickly the technology got
23:31
Speaker 2: brought into schools, you would think that there was studied,
23:34
Speaker 2: but it really wasn't. So if you like, there's an
23:36
Speaker 2: article in Frontiers and Education in twenty twenty three where
23:40
Speaker 2: there was an extensive systematic review of studies on the
23:43
Speaker 2: literature of using screens in schools by Utler at All
23:49
Speaker 2: twenty twenty. The quote goes, very few large scale or
23:53
Speaker 2: quasi experimental studies have been undertaken that would argue that
23:57
Speaker 2: would arguably provide a clear indication of the learning value
24:00
Speaker 2: added by mobile devices. So long story short, we never
24:03
Speaker 2: studied technologies in school before we let technology take over.
24:07
Speaker 2: Things like smartboards. I think those started to come in
24:10
Speaker 2: after we left school. Yeah, just it's so it's so interesting,
24:13
Speaker 2: like it was just kind of like, yeah, this sounds
24:16
Speaker 2: a good idea. Let's here you go, here's an iPad, kid,
24:18
Speaker 2: let's let's figure it out.
24:20
Speaker 1: But it also shows the changing in thinking because like
24:22
Speaker 1: at the time, no one really thought that this could
24:25
Speaker 1: be or would be a bad thing until we started
24:28
Speaker 1: to see the effects on society where we're like, oh,
24:30
Speaker 1: like everyone is on their device all the time. We
24:33
Speaker 1: just thought, oh, it would be so easy and good
24:36
Speaker 1: for them to have this on them at all times.
24:38
Speaker 1: And yeah, only in retrospect do we look back and say, like, Okay,
24:41
Speaker 1: maybe that was not a great idea. Maybe we should
24:44
Speaker 1: have studied that a little bit more before we gave
24:46
Speaker 1: elementary school kids iPads and expected them to be able
24:50
Speaker 1: to do their work on them.
24:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's hard because I think a lot of
24:53
Speaker 2: the time we think of these tools as like they're
24:56
Speaker 2: gonna it's a tool, it's going to enhance the educational experience.
24:59
Speaker 2: Like how great is it that we have a lot
25:03
Speaker 2: of kids graduating high school with being like proficient and
25:07
Speaker 2: even better in like Google docs and email and sheets
25:12
Speaker 2: and stuff like that. Like that's that's pretty great. Like
25:15
Speaker 2: those are great skills to have, you kind of need those.
25:18
Speaker 2: How good is it that these kids are just learning
25:20
Speaker 2: how to be kind of tech savvy in a tech
25:22
Speaker 2: heavy world. That's great, But not really considering the other
25:25
Speaker 2: side of it, like how much like it could be negative?
25:28
Speaker 2: And we've talked about one of the golden rules I
25:31
Speaker 2: think we have is just moderation with a lot of things,
25:33
Speaker 2: whether it's technology, some substances, not all of them, because
25:37
Speaker 2: some of them it's zero, don't use it the kind
25:42
Speaker 2: of foods we eat, Like moderation is super important, and
25:45
Speaker 2: it wasn't really thought about when we started adding technology
25:48
Speaker 2: the way we've had in schools over the years.
25:51
Speaker 1: Discussion question, how do you have conversations with families about
25:56
Speaker 1: screens and tech and what are they saying? What suggests
26:00
Speaker 1: do you have? What do you think?
26:02
Speaker 2: I think a lot of families feel like it's an
26:04
Speaker 2: uphill battle and it's really tough, right, like, how do
26:07
Speaker 2: you how do you go from the laxed rules around
26:11
Speaker 2: it to now we're going to have rules. And I
26:13
Speaker 2: think kind of we're doing that live now in our
26:16
Speaker 2: where we are doing it live in our school with
26:18
Speaker 2: like hey, now put it away or it's gone kind
26:21
Speaker 2: of thing. Ye. And I think ultimately the best time
26:24
Speaker 2: to have started some kind of rule or rigor around
26:27
Speaker 2: things like technology use was in the past when it
26:31
Speaker 2: first started, But arguably the next best time is right
26:34
Speaker 2: now and just kind of ripping the band aid off
26:37
Speaker 2: and starting it right. Whether it's screen time limits, whether
26:41
Speaker 2: it's turning off the internet, the Wi Fi in the house,
26:45
Speaker 2: whether it's having your kid put up their phone in
26:47
Speaker 2: your bedroom before you go to sleep and then sleeping
26:50
Speaker 2: in their other bedroom and keeping it away from them.
26:53
Speaker 2: I think it's it's ultimately it's an uphill battle, but
26:55
Speaker 2: it's going to be in a battle that stays uphill
26:57
Speaker 2: unless you try something drastically different. And I think think
27:00
Speaker 2: the important thing would be to have like that conversation
27:04
Speaker 2: with the children of like, this is what we want
27:06
Speaker 2: to do. It's gonna suck. I'm really sorry, and I
27:09
Speaker 2: think it's something that's helpful and something that could help
27:11
Speaker 2: is doing it with them. For us, I've really tried
27:15
Speaker 2: to buy in with the school. I'm leaving my phone
27:17
Speaker 2: in my desk. I'm bringing it with me, but I'm
27:19
Speaker 2: not taking it out. I was out in the hall
27:22
Speaker 2: all day today for the most part, and there was
27:25
Speaker 2: a couple of times, Oh, I'm gonna grab my phone ooh,
27:27
Speaker 2: and I stopped. I just left it in my pocket,
27:28
Speaker 2: didn't grab it out once in front of students. In
27:31
Speaker 2: my office was a different story. But in front of students,
27:34
Speaker 2: no phone use. So trying to buy in, trying to
27:38
Speaker 2: share some responsibility in it, I think is really important.
27:41
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's the conversation with parents. I think ultimately
27:45
Speaker 2: it's an uphill battle. But unless we try something now,
27:47
Speaker 2: it's going to stay that way.
27:49
Speaker 1: I've had a lot of families come in, especially towards
27:52
Speaker 1: the end of the summer, where they say everyone in
27:56
Speaker 1: the family is just in their room on their device
27:59
Speaker 1: all of every day. No one spends any time together.
28:02
Speaker 1: We don't have any meals together, we don't go out
28:05
Speaker 1: and do anything together. And man, it is so hard
28:08
Speaker 1: to claw your way back from that and actually get
28:11
Speaker 1: your family to spend time together. And in those times
28:14
Speaker 1: where you are spending good time together, you're playing games,
28:17
Speaker 1: going out exploring, you're learning how to handle each other,
28:22
Speaker 1: you're learning how to handle stressful situations, you're learning how
28:26
Speaker 1: to communicate with each other. And if you're just only
28:29
Speaker 1: in your house, you're not really building any of that relationship,
28:31
Speaker 1: you're not really building any of those interpersonal skills. You're
28:35
Speaker 1: just kind of stuck. So talking with families about this, yeah,
28:39
Speaker 1: I have the same advice too, where like, hey, if
28:41
Speaker 1: you want your kids to do it, you have to
28:43
Speaker 1: do it too. I literally had a dad tell me like,
28:46
Speaker 1: that's not gonna help at all, Like you got mad
28:48
Speaker 1: at me for me suggesting that everyone put their phones
28:51
Speaker 1: down and put some screen time limits on, and you know,
28:54
Speaker 1: I don't blame them. You know, talking to people about
28:57
Speaker 1: taking their cell phones away really remind me of when
29:00
Speaker 1: I was on my substance use rotations and talking to
29:03
Speaker 1: people about stopping drugs or taking drugs and alcohol away.
29:08
Speaker 1: They get angry, they get defensive, they don't want to
29:11
Speaker 1: logically think about it, where they argue with every little point.
29:15
Speaker 1: It's a very similar mindset.
29:17
Speaker 2: So it's hard.
29:18
Speaker 1: It's hard to rewire that brain to be open to
29:22
Speaker 1: change when we're really dependent on these cell phones.
29:27
Speaker 2: I won't say it's like full blown withdrawal, but it
29:30
Speaker 2: does kind of feel that way right, Like to fully,
29:34
Speaker 2: it's like cold turkey. It's pretty much just cold turkey.
29:36
Speaker 2: It is cold turkey. Like you just had summer. You
29:40
Speaker 2: had probably a lot of unstructured time, and now not
29:43
Speaker 2: only are you waking up early and you got to
29:45
Speaker 2: go to five classes a day, get the hell off
29:47
Speaker 2: your phone? Right. How shitty is that? It's pretty tough.
29:50
Speaker 1: It's a huge change. So all those young people out
29:53
Speaker 1: there in high school, if you're listening to this, because
29:55
Speaker 1: I'm sure that these two thirty something year olds are
29:58
Speaker 1: the mental health show that you're listening then too. We
30:01
Speaker 1: feel for you. We know that it is a big change,
30:03
Speaker 1: but it is the best thing for you, which is
30:07
Speaker 1: sometimes the hardest thing to do.
30:08
Speaker 2: Have you tried things to like lower your screen time, Like,
30:11
Speaker 2: how do you keep your screen time lower? I do?
30:14
Speaker 1: I have screen time limits for myself. I have social
30:18
Speaker 1: media limits so that I can't do more than one
30:21
Speaker 1: hour per day. I try not to keep my or
30:25
Speaker 1: look at my phone too much before bed. My screen
30:28
Speaker 1: time right now is about three hours a day, which.
30:33
Speaker 2: Is not bad. What do you mean not bad? That's great.
30:38
Speaker 1: But before I had Liam, my son, it was creeping
30:42
Speaker 1: up to four and a half five. But now I'm
30:45
Speaker 1: just chasing a toddler around and I don't know if
30:47
Speaker 1: I can't be on my phone. So having kids, honestly
30:51
Speaker 1: really helped to get my screen time down.
30:53
Speaker 2: So just have kids, Yeah, that's it? Yeah? Easy? Is
30:58
Speaker 2: that right? I feel like I've tried the screen time
31:02
Speaker 2: limits too. We're getting there for sure. I think. Really
31:06
Speaker 2: the easiest thing for me has either been leave my
31:08
Speaker 2: phone in my office at work while I'm out of
31:11
Speaker 2: the office, or keep it in my pocket and remind
31:14
Speaker 2: myself that, like, I'm not taking it out and really
31:16
Speaker 2: the only reason why I keep it in my pocket
31:19
Speaker 2: is because while my watch still works with the Wi
31:23
Speaker 2: Fi and as long as it's still kind of connected
31:25
Speaker 2: to the phone, I can still get the notifications. It's
31:28
Speaker 2: just important that I'm able to get like a chat
31:30
Speaker 2: notification or a calendar reminder, so I'm not missing things.
31:34
Speaker 2: So that's why I'm kind of battling back and forth
31:36
Speaker 2: with it. One thing that kind of that came out recently.
31:40
Speaker 2: I think it was a Hank Green, not his brother
31:43
Speaker 2: John Green. You know John Green's one that wrote The
31:46
Speaker 2: Fault in Our Stars. Oh yeah, yeah, And Hank Green
31:49
Speaker 2: is a YouTuber and they're both like famous on on
31:52
Speaker 2: TikTok and YouTube and stuff. Hank Green created this game
31:57
Speaker 2: called Focus Friend, and you start it and you have
32:01
Speaker 2: a little bean and he's in a room or they're
32:04
Speaker 2: in their room, and then when you put focus time on,
32:07
Speaker 2: it starts to knit socks. And with the socks you
32:11
Speaker 2: can buy stuff to decorate the room. And so I've
32:15
Speaker 2: started kind of using that because I want to decorate
32:17
Speaker 2: the room. There's some cool shit, but you really need
32:19
Speaker 2: a lot of socks, so.
32:21
Speaker 3: It's a little it's kind of hard, but yeah, I
32:25
Speaker 3: mean that that's kind of helped a little bit, just
32:27
Speaker 3: like trying some different you know, the screen time the
32:31
Speaker 3: focus friend.
32:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, just trying different things because to me, it is
32:35
Speaker 2: important to work on that.
32:37
Speaker 1: Right now, it's just kind of throwing things at the
32:39
Speaker 1: wall and seeing what sticks in terms of screen time.
32:42
Speaker 1: And you know, you always hear the same things like
32:44
Speaker 1: no screens at bedtime, screen time limits, try and have
32:51
Speaker 1: no screens at dinner. You hear all the same recommendations
32:54
Speaker 1: over and over and over again. But really, if we
32:56
Speaker 1: want massive change throughout the entire world, and then we
33:00
Speaker 1: got to hold the cell phone and the technology companies accountable,
33:04
Speaker 1: just like with the tobacco industry, just like we had
33:07
Speaker 1: to go after the companies who were selling this stuff
33:10
Speaker 1: in order to make any major changes.
33:13
Speaker 2: And it worked.
33:14
Speaker 1: So there's there's a positive, there's an upside. But yeah,
33:17
Speaker 1: I think I had mentioned that. I put that in
33:19
Speaker 1: my tech talk, which actually officially hit half a million views.
33:22
Speaker 2: Nice, that's what it was.
33:25
Speaker 1: But I put that in the tech talk that like,
33:26
Speaker 1: we got to hold the tech companies accountable for this. Yeah,
33:30
Speaker 1: And someone had posted like these guy's really going after
33:32
Speaker 1: the tech companies, Like are we sure he's alive. Still,
33:37
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh no, we'll worried about myself too.
33:42
Speaker 2: No. I mean it's and this might be a turning
33:44
Speaker 2: point where tech and you know, social media and all
33:49
Speaker 2: these companies are held a little more accountable. If states
33:51
Speaker 2: had to go this far to put something into place,
33:54
Speaker 2: this might be the turning point for that.
33:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems like finally as a society we are
33:59
Speaker 1: saying enough is enough. It took time, it took a
34:03
Speaker 1: lot of processing, but yeah, it seems like it's finally
34:06
Speaker 1: starting to happen.
34:07
Speaker 2: On my end, We'll see how it goes. I'm interested
34:10
Speaker 2: to just kind of see day to day. I will
34:13
Speaker 2: say anecdotally, it was definitely louder in the lunch room
34:17
Speaker 2: and before school. And by that I mean the kids
34:20
Speaker 2: were talking to each other, and so I think that's
34:22
Speaker 2: pretty cool. I think they'll figure it out. I think,
34:26
Speaker 2: you know, though, our teacher's assistants or office aids, they'll
34:29
Speaker 2: use the time to study or do homework instead of
34:31
Speaker 2: just scroll on their phone all day. And you know,
34:34
Speaker 2: there's the kids will talk to each other more, and
34:37
Speaker 2: I don't know, I'm hoping teachers see that they're more
34:39
Speaker 2: engaged in class, and I think we just got to
34:41
Speaker 2: get through this little rough part this next week or two,
34:45
Speaker 2: and then I think we'll, well, it'll start to pay off.
34:48
Speaker 2: And I appreciate the how our admin and staff really
34:51
Speaker 2: stuck to it today because I think that really set
34:53
Speaker 2: the tone cool. I like it.
34:55
Speaker 1: I hope it goes well. Yeah, and keep us posted too.
34:57
Speaker 1: I'm curious.
34:58
Speaker 2: Oh, I'll let you know it. Don't worry. Thank you
35:04
Speaker 2: all for listening. Thank you all for keeping your phone
35:07
Speaker 2: in your pocket while you listen to this episode. You
35:10
Speaker 2: can feel free to take it out now. Go to
35:12
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, go to Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts,
35:15
Speaker 2: like subscribe, give us a five star review, leave as
35:18
Speaker 2: a comment whatever you'd like. You can see us on
35:19
Speaker 2: social media at Millennial MHC and millenniamac dot com. Thank
35:25
Speaker 2: you all for listening. Put some screen time limits, put
35:28
Speaker 2: your phone away, and remember, take care of all mentals.
35:31
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35:34
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