Latest / It's All Poetry / Building Your Own Boycott (with Alexa Speed)

Transcript

Building Your Own Boycott (with Alexa Speed) · It's All Poetry

• IAP S4 Ep. 58 Boycott with Alexa Speed === Nicole: [00:00:00] Oh, hello. Welcome to It's All Poetry. I'm your host, Nicole Cloutier. This is a show about words, the ones we use every day and we think we understand, and yet always end up meaning much more than we expected. Each week, I sit down with a guest and we follow one word all the way to its roots. Okay, let's get into today's episode. Hi, Alexa. Alexa Speed: Hello. Nicole: I'm Alexa Speed: it going? Nicole: Oh, gosh, I'm so happy you're here. Um, I'll tell everyone a bit more about why in a moment, but first of all, everyone listening, I have Alexa Speed with us today on It's All Poetry. Alexa is the creator behind Cut Off the Spigot, a category by category deep dive [00:01:00] into alternatives from badly behaving companies, big corporations, and private equity firms. ~Um, hold on. I feel like I read that list wrong. Jeremy, I'm gonna try again. Okay. Alexa Speed is the creator behind Cut Off the Spigot, a category by category deep dive into alternatives from badly behaving companies, big corporations, and private equity firms. ~Alexa, anything you wanna add to that? Alexa Speed: Um, ~I mean, ~that about sums it up. But basically, yeah, with Cut Off the Spigot, I do the research so you don't have to, and we can get away from all these big, nasty corporations that are making our lives worse Nicole: Oh, that sounds, yeah, aspirational. I love that. It sounds really, really hard, which I'm sure we'll talk about a bit, and I know you talk about a lot on Cut Off the Spigot. Um, for those listening, Alexa and I were just chatting, but I think Alexa is one of the first guests that I've had on that I know in a physical human body sense. We used to work Alexa Speed: That does sound a bit scandalous. Nicole: know, it does sound scandalous. People can take it however they'd like. Um, but we've known each other for a while, since like 2014, 2015, right? Alexa Speed: Yeah, I think it was like 2015, 2016. So like, um, 10 years now, which is crazy[00:02:00] Nicole: So crazy. But yes, and I often talk about my story of how I used to work, um, like, with big tech companies and, like, at a marketing agency. And Alexa and I know each other from those days at the marketing agency in New York City, which is where you are now too, right? Alexa Speed: Yes, I am back in New York. It's great Nicole: I love it there so much. I really miss it. Um, okay. Well, we're going to be talking about the word boycott today, which is a special one because it is the youngest word that we've ever done on this show. So usually there's, like, a deep dive etymology, but this one is about 146 years old. So this one is barely older than my great-grandma. But it has traveled a lot, um, and has a, like, expansive history, even if not a deep one. So before we get too into it, when I say the word boycott, Alexa, what is the first thing that comes to your mind? Alexa Speed: ~To m- I guess the first thing that comes to my mind is, like, resistance and, like, fighting back against oppression, because it feels like boycotting ... Boycotting to me, like ... Sorry, I'll take that again.~ Nicole: ~yeah~ Alexa Speed: Um, [00:03:00] boycotting to me is really about your own sort of, like, self-empowerment because by not purchasing goods, services, whatever, ~it's a way for you to actually fight back against those oppressive s- system~ ~Ugh, against those oppressive sy- systems, whether, you know, it's, uh, companies behaving badly towards their workers. Um, I have a example that I wanna bring up later, but, like, or you are a grocery worker at a, uh, store in Ireland and help kick off South, um, African apartheid boycotting, um, and lead to a whole, um, uh, stance by the, uh, Irish government.~ But really, what boycotting means to me, or what I first think, is just the ability to take a stand and to fight back and to be empowered in that way Nicole: Mm-hmm. Yeah. What do you think was your, like, earliest... This is, I feel like this is a hard word to ask this question, but I am gonna ask you anyway, and let's see what we can come up with. What do you think your earliest memory of the word is? Alexa Speed: ~I think it's hard to pin down an earliest memory. I'm sure there were probably some boycotts in the new... I mean, I remember... So I grew up in, uh, outside of, like, Rochester and Buffalo, New York, and Bausch + Lomb, um, was, uh, a... Sorry, hold on a second.~ I grew up outside of, um, Buffalo and Rochester, New York, and so I feel like the earliest I heard about it was boycotts against Bausch + Lomb because they were, um, one of, like, the last corporations to still do business in, um, uh, South Africa during apartheid. Um, and so there was, like, growing up, um... And Bausch + Lomb, I think they have a much reduced presence in Rochester, [00:04:00] New York now, but, like, in the '90s and when I was growing up, it was, like, Bausch + Lomb, Kodak, and Xerox were, like, all the big companies and paychecks. Um, and so, like, learning about that and kind of the impact it was having on people in Rochester, um, who were working at Bausch + Lomb was just kind of an interesting way to sort of learn about boycotting. But beyond that sort of very tangential, uh, experience, I think the other way that I maybe didn't learn about boycotting directly but started having, I think, more consciousness of the harm that companies can perpetrate is when we read, uh, The Jungle by Upton Sinclair. Uh, I think it was in middle school or early high school. And I was horrified when reading that book,~ um,~ and just, like, what these companies were doing in terms of, like, you know, putting [00:05:00] rancid and disgusting meat into, like, meat products. Or,~ um,~ like, selling milk that was barely milk and all this stuff, and not to mention the horrible treatment of workers and things like that. So I think indirectly, The Jungle kind of started my sort of almost I would say, like, corporate consciousness, that, like, companies can do really bad things, and if we don't have regulations in place, then, like, they kind of run wild. So it's a long-winded answer of saying I, I don't have a direct answer, but those are kind of, like, the things that come to mind when I think about, like, sort of boycotting and growing up and, and, like, probably the earliest I would've heard about it. Nicole: Yeah, I think it is one of those words where it's like concept lands before word. Alexa Speed: Yeah Nicole: some that happen the opposite way where you, like, know the word and you don't know the meaning for, like, a long time. But this is definitely the opposite. Yeah. And what's, what's funny about our, our reconnection a decade later is that people were [00:06:00] sending me, you know, Cut Off The Spigot, your publication, and I was like, "Oh my gosh, I know, I know Alexa." Like, "Let me reach out. It's amazing." But I'm curious about, like, that phrasing and how... Like, Cut Off The Spigot, and how that relates to the word boycott for you. Alexa Speed: Yeah. So in my mind, cut off the spigot basically means to cut off the spigot of your money flowing to these corporations. So as it relates to boycotting, it's basically like, I think there's kind of two versions of boycotting. One, your own personal boycott, which is like cutting off your, your personal money bucket spigot, um, and making sure that it doesn't flow there. Um, but then there's also, you know, collective boycotting, which is, "Hey, uh, you know, this company is not treating a whole bunch of people well. Let's join together and basically stop money flowing from that, flowing to them." Nicole: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, okay, [00:07:00] amazing. So we're gonna start getting into definitions. The way I like to do this is I'm going to read you the modern definitions from Merriam-Webster, um, and I choose Merriam-Webster because it's the s- most free online dictionary. Um, and but as I'm reading them, I want to treat it like it's a rough draft, like to keep in mind that words, like, change in the definitions, and for us to be like, "Hey, here's what we like about the definition, and here's what we don't." "Here's what we would change." Um, okay, so for the modern definition, we have a verb and a noun definition. So the verb is, "To engage in a concerted refusal to have dealings with a person, a store, an organization, et cetera, usually to express dis- disapproval or to force acceptance of certain conditions, such as boycotting the company's product." So that feels straightforward, right? Anything else you would change or add, or does that feel right? Alexa Speed: I think that feels right. I can't think of anything that I would necessarily add Nicole: Yeah. [00:08:00] It's pretty, it's pretty clean cut. Uh, a boycott as a noun is a~ punitive ban on relations with other bodies, corporat- or sorry, I'm reading that wrong. A~ punitive ban on relations with other bodies, cooperation with a policy, or the handling of goods. So think the word That stands out to me. Where is it? Oh, in the verb definition, I... Sorry, the word that stood out to me in the verb was, like, concerted refusal. So, like, to... It's not just one person, it's a coordinated act, right? And then we see that again in noun, that it's, like, um, cooperation. Um, but yeah, anything else jump out to you about the noun version? And let me read that again, sorry. "A punitive ban on relations with other bodies, cooperation with policy, or the handling of goods." Alexa Speed: I mean, I feel like the verb definition sounds better. Nicole: Yeah Alexa Speed: And then the~ noun is, like, a little, um... I feel like not quite as clear. But, like, uh... Sorry. The~ noun definition feels like it's not as quite clear-cut [00:09:00] as the verb is. But, like, with the verb definition, with the verb definition, what I really liked is that, what was it? Concerted resistance, Nicole: Concerted refusal. Alexa Speed: or concerted refusal. And I think refusal is a really key word there because I talk about this a lot, um, with Cut Off the Spigot. But, like, I think there are, there is, like, collective boy- boycotting actions that can be really impactful. But on a personal level, it really is that refusal to, like, do business with that company that, um, either, again, is doing something bad policy-wise towards employees or honestly, a lot of major corporations have terrible, like, customer service. Verizon, I was-- we moved, my husband and I moved, and we got rid of our Verizon because there wasn't, um, Fios in our new apartment. And they [00:10:00] gave me the runaround for months and ended up basically charging me $90 for equipment that I didn't actu- Like, they told me that I didn't need to return it, so I didn't and got rid of it. And then of course they were like, "Actually, yeah, you need to, and you owe us $90 unless you do." Um, so while that is one minor interaction, I really hate Verizon right now. And I, like, have refused, you know, Verizon people, like Fios people have come around our apartment, and I tell them, "No, we do not want them." Because to me, I was just so incredibly frustrated by such a bad customer service experience that I was just like, "No, you're dead to me. I'm boycotting you." Um, so I think, like, the collective part is a huge piece of it. But I do think that even just personal refusal to do business with a company that is either doing bad things or just wronged you or acted in a poor way, [00:11:00] um, is also really important. Nicole: Yeah, yeah. I feel that way about Quantum Fiber right now. They tried to charge me $400 for equipment. Alexa Speed: That's crazy Nicole: I know. And I was like, "I returned these pods." Alexa Speed: Yeah. Nicole: Um, but also it feels like they kind of have a monopoly in my area, so that's like, you know, but I need internet. Alexa Speed: Yeah Nicole: Um, yeah. No, I, I like that. Like, separating and like, separating and also, like, feeling empowered to do both, right? To act in the collective and also to act personally. Um, I- in the noun definition, the word that stood out to me too is, um, punitive, right? A punitive ban on relations Alexa Speed: Yeah Nicole: bodies. Yeah. Which I think sometime- punitive just sounds... Like, I don't know if I feel like I have the power to punish Quantum Fiber, you know? Like, it fe- that feels... I'm like, ooh, like I would love to, but I don't know. What's your take? Alexa Speed: I think punitive is... I do like that, and it kind of stood out to me too [00:12:00] because if you... Internet, uh, internet providers are a bit frustrating because they often are monopolies in one area, so you don't have a lot of choices. But assuming, you know, let's say you had three options for internet, um, it is punitive to take your business somewhere else. It is punitive to not give them your money. Um, does that punishment of not giving them your money, you know, mean a lot to them on an individual level? Probably not. Um, but it's still money that's not going into their pockets because you're refusing to do it, and at the end of the day, you know, corporations exist to make money, so it is a punishment Nicole: Yeah. All right, let's l- go back to 1901. So this is closer to the word's birth, which is fun. We're seeing it at 20 years old, the definition. So the 1901 Century [00:13:00] Dictionary, boycott as a noun is, "An organized attempt to coerce a person or party into compliance with some demand by combining to abstain and compel others to abstain from having any business or social relations with him or it. An organized persecution of a person or company as a means of coercion or intimidation, or the retaliation for some act, or refusal to act in a particular way." Alexa Speed: That one feels harsher. Nicole: Right? I, like, felt... I was like, "Oh, I feel weird reading this out loud." Um, yeah, this feels like, the definition feels like it's against the word boycott, right? Like, were you hearing that as well? It, f- Alexa Speed: it feels like it is, the person who's writing the definition does not have a positive opinion of boycotting. Nicole: Exactly, which is always important to remember in dictionaries is there is a person with an opinion behind the definition, right? ~Um, so yeah. ~Um, and then boycott [00:14:00] as a verb they have to shut out from all social and commercial intercourse, a kind of secular excommunication Alexa Speed: I think that's interesting because I feel like in the noun definition of the modern version, it talked about the social piece a little bit, and I think the verb was more monetarily focused. ~But, um, uh, yeah,~ it's just interesting that I feel like there's a social component to the older definition that doesn't come as through to the modern one. ~Um,~ and maybe that's because in the early 1900s, in some ways, like societal reputation and shame were much more important than, ~um,~ than nowadays. Um, but yeah, I just think it's interesting that they have that social piece and the ostras- ostracization, I don't know if I'm saying that correctly, but, um, it is kind of an interesting angle to it, uh, that I think was probably more relevant back then. Nicole: Yeah Alexa Speed: But I'm not surprised, uh, you know, dictionary makers [00:15:00] would be a bit more conservative and not not be super, uh, you know, writing, uh, amazing definitions of boycotting at the time. Nicole: Yeah, and I'm not as familiar with this dictionary, again, 'cause the word is younger. Um, we usually look a bit further back. But usually the further back you go in time too, the more, like, religion is part, especially Christianity if you're talking about English and American English dictionaries, right, is part of the definition. Like, even the use of secular excommunication, you know. Um, Alexa Speed: Yeah. It's kind of interesting, Nicole: yeah. Yeah. But that's... It's just, it was part of the culture. And yeah, I think maybe there's something to, like, just the, the size of businesses compared to 1901. Like, there is more of, like, a social distance between the company and the people using the company, I think Alexa Speed: Yeah. I mean, I think it depends because if you look, like, there were, you know, massive railroad [00:16:00] companies, there were all the robber barons, things like that. So, um, which is why you started having, you know, anti-monopoly, antitrust legislation to break up those companies, um, because they were having a negative impact on people. Uh, in the early 1900s would be right, you know, before any reform starts taking place. Um, sorry, pause for a second. What was your original question again? I feel like I got to a part and then I was like, I had something else and I lost it. I apologize. Nicole: No. Yeah, no, I said there might've been a, a shorter social distance between the company, but you have excellent knowledge of the time that's beyond mine, so keep going. Alexa Speed: Um, but so I do think, you know, massive, uh, uh, corporations, companies that you had this distance from between you and the CEO and between you and, like, really impacting the business, let's say. Um, [00:17:00] I do think i- in modern day that feels like it's only exploded, where as, you know, it may have, you know, maybe your railroad was owned by a, um, a monopolist or a robber baron or something, um, so your transportation was, was impacted by that. But in modern, in the modern world, it feels like not only your transportation, but your healthcare and your food and where you go shopping and where you can get stuff is all completely impacted by massive corporations Nicole: Absolutely. My healthcare denied covering something the other day, and it was very annoying. Alexa Speed: That's so frustrating Nicole: know, and then you gotta like spend a whole day on the phone, and it's like, I'm running a business. I can't... I don't have time to spend a whole day on the phone with Alexa Speed: I know. It's so f- it's crazy Nicole: All right. Um, so the researcher, my researcher has included some synonyms for us to look at and see which we like. Alexa Speed: [00:18:00] Mm-hmm. Nicole: So let's pick our favorites. Um, synonyms such as strike, mutiny, revolt, picket, resist, embargo, ban, and blackball. Any faves? Alexa Speed: I like black ball. Um, that's a good one. I feel mutiny was one that at first I was like, "I don't know if this counts." But then actually I was thinking about it, and a lot of times the reason why people on ships in the 1800s, um, would, and I think the 1700s as well, but a lot of the reasons why crewmates would mutiny is because of poor working conditions, um, on the boat and, or poor decisions from the captain, uh, who like at least for like a lot of like British, uh, ships was often like a aristocrat that was handed like a title and, or handed like a, you know, a captain's role or whatever. Um, [00:19:00] so actually mutiny does make a little bit more sense when I think about it 'cause you're still like standing up to, to, um, oppressive forces What other ones were on the list? Nicole: Let's see. We've got strike, which seems to me like, yeah, that's related. Revolt, picket, resist, embargo, ban Alexa Speed: Yeah Nicole: Ban feels interesting, 'cause to me boycott feels like a relatively positive, and ban feels bad Alexa Speed: Well, I think boycott also feels like it comes from, from, like, the people and movements and organizations like groundswell, Nicole: Hmm Alexa Speed: which, like, that groundswell of everyday people action is what might lead to a ban of a particular product or things like that. Um, but yeah, ban feels more like [00:20:00] it's coming from the top down, like the government is banning something or a company is banning the use of a certain chemical in their production process or whatever. Nicole: Yeah Alexa Speed: But it feels more on almost the other side Nicole: Yeah. Well, I guess, yeah, hearing you give those examples, it changes my opinion, right? It can be good to ban ingredients that aren't good for you, but my first thought is banned books, right? So like banning like something from culture, which feels negative. Alexa Speed: Yeah, Nicole: yeah. I guess it's all, it's all in how you use it, of course. Um, okay. So let's go further back in time into... Usually this is where we do like etymology, which is what we're doing, but again, the word boycott is 146 years old. That doesn't mean that people didn't organize refusals, right? Like they didn't, they... Boycotting as a concept did exist before this time, but the word is... Oh, shoot, what's the word? What's it called? It is what's called an eponym, so it's named for whom or [00:21:00] which it is believed to have been named. It's named for someone. Alexa Speed: Yeah. Nicole: Yes, yeah, named for someone, named for a person, right? So even though boycotting existed, the name comes from the person. So, and you know a lot about this, right? You know a lot about the name. Alexa Speed: Uh, sort of. Yeah. I believe it was a English landowner who had the last name Boycott, um, and he had basically land in Ireland and was being very abusive towards his Irish farmers. They got pissed off and started boycotting him, and then it became kind of such a thing that the word caught on and became an eponym versus just a name Nicole: Yeah. Perfect. The year is 1880. It's Ireland in the middle of the Land War. Alexa has laid it out perfectly. Yes. There's bad harvest, there's evictions, um, tenant farmers being crushed by absentee English landlords, right? They're... That distance is interesting. That distance is coming back between, [00:22:00] like, the person imposing and the person who has to live with what's being imposed. So Captain Charles Cunningham Boycott, who died in 1897, he was retired British Army, and he worked as a land agent, right? Um, and he wasn't, like, a brutal tyrant, but he was, like, stubborn. Um, he looked down on Irish pes- peasantry. He fined the tenants for leaving gates open. He wouldn't let their hens onto his property. When the harvest failed and the tenants asked for a 25% rent reduction, he refused, and he tried to evict 11 of them. And so then we have the hero. We have Father John O'Malley, who was a priest, um, head of the local Land League branch, and he orchestrates a campaign of iso- of total isolation against Boycott. So the workers walk off the harvest, shopkeepers in town refuse to serve him, his domestic staff abandoned the house, and even the postman stops delivering his mail. So it's, like, real, like, social... Like, this is where the social feels, [00:23:00] like... It, it feels personal, right? Because it is after this one person. Alexa Speed: Yeah Nicole: Um, so Father O'Malley, when he needed a word to describe what they were doing, he tried using ostracize, but then he kinda decided it was too complicated for the local peasantry to remember and use, so he suggested just calling it boycotting the man, using his name as a verb. Alexa Speed: Oh, I didn't realize that part, that he, that the father coin did. That's pretty awesome Nicole: Yeah, it was easier to say than, 'cause, um, ostracize is Greek derived, so it's just a more complicated word to pronounce, say, remember. So he's like, "We're not gonna do that. We're just gonna call it boycotting." Um, but then, yeah, and what, what was so fascinating about this story is, like, like what's so unique about it is how quickly it spread. So the Times of London picked it up in 1880, the same year it's happening, right? And so by the end of 1880, boycotting, the word, the verb, was being reported all over Ireland. Um, and then it's in the Oxford English Dictionary by 1888 Alexa Speed: [00:24:00] That's pretty quick, Nicole: yeah For the time of no internet, that's very quick. Alexa Speed: Yeah Nicole: Yeah. A- so anything about the story surprise you, stand out to you? Alexa Speed: Um, like I said, I mean, I didn't realize that the, the, um, Father O'Malley you said, right? Nicole: Mm-hmm. Alexa Speed: I didn't realize that he basically was like, "Okay, well, we don't have a great word for this. Let's just use this guy's name 'cause it's easy to say." Um, so I thought it was something where maybe, like, the press were talking about it, and it kind of went from there, but it sounds like it was more, uh, him, and then the press did take it 'cause it did clearly grow and, um, in use. But yeah Nicole: Yeah. Well, what's kinda cool is if we do the, um, etymology of the surname itself, it's a place name, probably from old English, which, which means servant cottage or servant's cottage. So Captain Boycott's family's [00:25:00] name, w- his ancestors were the people that would have lived in cottages and served the landlords. But by 1880, he's the landlord. Alexa Speed: Yeah. He, he's the landlord so much that now his, like, peasant surname is basically like the word for fighting back against landlords. Nicole: Yeah, I think that's hilarious. Um, oh, and Alexa Speed: I feel like even if he didn't appreciate it, maybe his ancestors did. Nicole: Yes. They probably did. They're like, "God, we were tired of this descendant. Like, time to put him back in his place, remind him who he is." Yeah. Alexa Speed: Yeah. Nicole: Yeah, I love that. I'm imagining, like, a, a Mulan kind of story going on. Um, um, and part of ... Sorry, going back to how fast it traveled, part of, again, the, like, uniqueness of the, the quick, the speed at which it traveled was how quickly it traveled around the world. So within a few years it was in Japanese as boicoto, and then it was Dutch, French, German, Italian, Polish, Russian. It was, went global almost instantly, [00:26:00] which again, at this point in time, was pretty fascinating Alexa Speed: I feel like though, again, going back to the historical context, like in, uh, like the late 1800s, early 1900s is where you... I, I will admit I'm not a historian on this subject, but I'm, like that's when really labor movements start happening. Like, you start seeing the pushback against, um, n- not necessarily industrialization, but the, like poor labor practices that come with industrial labor that come with, uh, the poor labor practices that come with industrialization. So, you know, working long hours and unsafe conditions. Um, and also you are starting to see those larger companies and forces, um, take advantage of, you know, kind of everyday people Nicole: Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah, and like I said earlier, like, this wasn't, like, even though the word boycott spread, which kind of [00:27:00] implies that there was, like, a gap, right? Like, we needed the word in English, right? There was something that was missing. Um, boycotts had happened, right? Like, um, I'm gonna mispronounce this. You, you probably know. The, the play Lysistrata. Lysistrata. is a Greek... from the Greek dramatist Aristophanes. This is the one. You'll be familiar with the story when I say it. It's, it's where the heroine Lysistrata convinces, convinces Athenian women to barricade themselves and withhold sex until their lovers negotiate with Sparta. Alexa Speed: Yeah. That one is great, and there's actually more recent examples of that as well. I can't remember off the top of my head. Maybe in Chile or Spain or something. But, like, there was a similar s- you know, women withholding sex from their husbands until war ends, um, boycott, uh, in, like, the '60s or '70s, uh, I believe. But yeah, so, like, that's, like, a tried and [00:28:00] true. That still works. Nicole: Yeah, there's a movie, right? I think it's a Spike Lee movie, um, about Chicago and that happening in Chicago. Chi-Town, I think it's called. Yeah. Um, which is I think basically like a modern-day retelling of Lysistrata. Oh gosh, I hope I'm saying that right. Lysistrata. Alexa Speed: sound off. Nicole: Yeah. Oh, okay. I'll just, like, record it, record it in over if I ever Alexa Speed: yeah. It's really wrong. Nicole: Um, okay. So I think, like, I'm- I would love to talk about... This, and this is gonna sound really black and white and, and this is probably not the way we'll present it, but, like, kind of good boycotting versus evil boycotting. So, like, as the researcher was putting together, he knew, he... And he had some brands on both lists, right? Like Starbucks on, well, Starbucks on good. Or which one's on both? Oh, like Nike on good and evil. Like Nike being, like, boycotting because of, you know, child and slave labor. Nike, there was also a [00:29:00] campaign, you probably know more about this than I do. There was, like, a, a go woke, go broke campaign against Nike too more recently. my gosh, balloons. I don't know why. Anyway. Alexa Speed: or broke. Nicole: Yeah. God. Oh, dear Alexa Speed: um, yeah, no, I think, I think it's interesting because ultimately, like, where boycotts are coming from and what the core reason, rationale is behind them, um, or ultimately, like, what they're trying to get these companies to do, um, really kind of makes a boycott, like, a quote unquote good boycott or a bad boycott. For example, there's, like, what is it, Moms for Liberty or Moms for Justice, that mom group, um, that's, like, conservative moms, and they always, like, boycott everything, and there's always, like, minor boycotts happening on the [00:30:00] right because some company went woke or whatever. And obviously, like, those are boycotts that I don't endorse or stand behind. Nicole: Yeah. Or like boycotting Disney because of like changing the, the race of a, of a b- character. Alexa Speed: Yeah. Nicole: those. Alexa Speed: when they, uh, did Little Mermaid Nicole: Yeah. Yeah Alexa Speed: yeah. Um, like that type of stuff, obviously the intention coming, you know, the reasoning behind it is, "Hey, we don't like diversity." Um, so I think boycotting, similar to a lot of things, is a tool and can be used for good or for bad. Um, I think the important piece is, is... And also, too, I think excuse me. Uh, and also, too, I think, you know, looking at, like, Nike as an example where they do some good stuff and then, like, some bad [00:31:00] stuff or maybe the right was, um, just going after them. But I think a lot of companies, and what I've found in my own research, end up in kind of a gray area and whether or not you decide to boycott or do business with them in general is really up to what is important to you. So, um, you know, I just posted a video, uh, talking about home improvement alternatives and, uh, someone commented about how, uh, one of the companies I mentioned used, like, AI creative or made, like, AI ads, um, which I don't like, but, uh, it's just interesting 'cause they were like, "Yeah, I, I don't wanna shop with them if they're doing AI ads." And for them, like, that's, like, a make or break situation. Um, whereas for me, I, I'm kind of like, yeah, I don't like it, but a lot of companies are doing it and I don't really have a way to check them, Nicole: Yeah. Yeah Alexa Speed: and to check if their ads are [00:32:00] AI or not. But all this to say, I feel like it comes down to the reason you're boycotting and whether or not that is a, a reason that is going to ultimately help people or ultimately promote your own worldview, which tends to be limited and racist and sexist and all that Nicole: Yeah, I think that is a good way to distinct- to... I don't know why I wanna say distinctify. To, like, make a distinction. Yeah, that's a good way to make a distinction between them. Um, one, one thing, just, like, on the mention of AI, like, one thing, and this maybe does come down to, like, social, but I have seen, like, a lot of my clients these days, right, like, when, when you and I worked together at the agency, our clients were big companies, right? But now these days, most of my clients are one-person businesses. And I will say I get a little prickly when, um, like, other people in the creative [00:33:00] space as, like, a solopreneur or a solo creative business owner, like, call each other out for AI usage. Because I'm like, "Well, I get it, and also, like, a big company is gonna hire, like, they have the budget to hire someone to write for them or to do creative for them." So, like, I don't know. I guess I- that's a line I've been thinking a lot about, of like, how we tend to, like, turn on each other when I'd rather see us turn on, like, the big companies who... Alexa Speed: Yeah. No, absolutely. I mean, I think my personal stance on AI, which people can choose to align with or not, but is that AI can be an amazing tool. Um, and like I have used generative AI in the past to help with brainstorming or, um, if I'm really, really stuck on trying to figure out like a company ownership, you know, sometimes I'll like ask generative AI, and I won't like just go off of what they answer, [00:34:00] but they like serve up interesting sources that I wasn't able to find on my own. And I really think it is a, it-- the best use case of it is a tool. When it starts like whole hog replacing human relationships in your life or, um, whole hog replacing... Like there's a, a Roku, um, AI-generated, created ad, and you can tell, and it's awful. And every time it's on my screen, I get really angry. And like doing stuff like that is a lot. But I think we can't start just judging each other for using something that may help people. And especially when they aren't, you know, if it's only you and you have an AI tool that helps you get some work done, so you can go do more of the stuff you're passionate about or just have more time for the rest of your business and help it be successful, like I don't feel like there's anything wrong with that. Nicole: Yeah Alexa Speed: that's another thing too, is that I feel like in [00:35:00] general, I, I hate it when people like turn on each other or like sometimes even in like my video comments, it'll be like someone will say they can't switch out of this one company for whatever reason, and sometimes people will go after them. And I'm like, "No, like stop yelling at them." Like we, we don't need to like fight with each other or like play this like purity game of who is the most ethical shopper or, uh, whatever it is. I think it really is like understanding that we are all in this modern world and economy where corporations dominate so much of our day-to-day lives, as we were talking about before, that it is hard for any of us to, to make a living and to, you know, not only make a living, but do okay and do well and things like that. So, um, instead of like fighting with each other, let's turn our gaze towards the, the perpetrators of this, [00:36:00] like the companies that are constantly pushing AI tools on us. Nicole: Hmm. Gosh, el- every single one of them. Alexa Speed: Yeah, like everything has an AI integration now, and I'm like, "Stop it. I don't want it." Nicole: Yeah, and sometimes the little, like, AI integration bubble will pop up exactly where my mouse needs to be, and I, Alexa Speed: Yes. Nicole: cannot click on it. I'm like, "No, I didn't mean..." I use Notion a lot, and I know you can email them and get it turned off, but I haven't done that. Um, I don't know if you use Notion, but, like, every ti- every once in a while I'll be, like, trying to edit a, a sentence in it, and it just, like, the AI bubble is just like, "Oh, you want me to rewrite this for you?" And I'm like, "No. I didn't mean to click you." Alexa Speed: No, yeah. It's, I use Notion a little bit, but yeah, it's so frustrating. There's always, like, these little prompts and I'm like, "Stop it. Get away." Nicole: Yeah. Um, okay. Let's take some time and look at some quotes that have the word boycott in them, and then discuss these quotes. You ready? Yeah, do [00:37:00] it cool. Um, okay. So let's see. The first one is from Grace Lee Boggs, who was an American author, social activist, philosopher, feminist. She's showed up in our quotes a few times on this podcast, and her quote on boycotting is, "I'm not calling for a boycott on voting, but I think it should be very clear that just voting is not going to solve our problems." Thoughts? Alexa Speed: Well, I think she's right. I think, um I think she's right because although I do think voting is incredibly important, um, the other piece of it is organizing, and whether that's organizing in, like, a labor or tenant union. Excuse me. Whether that's organizing in a labor or tenant union, whether it's organizing with other people in your community to fight back against a data center, um, I think [00:38:00] there are so many things you can do beyond just voting, and even voting is only really w- depending on exactly what election you look at and things like that, but usually at most every two years, um, if not, like, every four or six. And so that is sort of a one-time engagement, but when someone is in office, that's an opportunity to talk to them throughout the time they're in office because they're gonna be continually making decisions. And, like, a l- another aspect of, of how I evaluate companies is whether or not they spend money on lobbying, and I think with, you know, our current election laws and the way corporations can spend money in super PACs and things like that, but m- in our, like, kind of modern society, it's... If you don't try to organize and get your voice heard beyond those votes, um, that you may make every two or more years, um, [00:39:00] you're not part of the conversation. The, the corporations are already spending their money trying to talk to these people. Um, so it's incredibly important to not only vote, but then also organize and get involved and work, um, you know, with whatever relevant organization for whatever relevant issue makes sense. But, and try to get in front of lawmakers, and try to, you know, be part of that conversation, otherwise it's only gonna be d- dominated by corporations. Nicole: Yeah. Yeah. And that leads really nicely... Oh, sorry. Into the next quote. Um,~ that leads really nicely into the next quote. I made it easier for Jeremy to edit. Okay. Um,~ Howard Zinn was a historian, author, professor, playwright, and activist, and he said, "The strike, the boycott, the refusal to serve, the ability to paralyze the functioning of a complex social structure, these remain potent weapons against the most fear- fearsome state or corporate power." So he's saying, you know, the boycott is a potent weapon against the most [00:40:00] fearsome state or corporate power Alexa Speed: Yeah, I think that's absolutely true. Um W- corporations only have money and power and influence because we let them. Um, not only from a... For example, if you think about not even involving money, but just h- your data, um, your personal data. Um, Instagram, you know, Meta, which owns Instagram and Facebook, makes money off of your data because they... And they are such a huge force because there are so many people that go on Facebook or Instagram, you know, every day to check, um, their feeds and all that. And so boycotting, whether it's from a data perspective and, you know, leaving Instagram or things like that or, or getting- deleting your Facebook, [00:41:00] or from a monetary perspective where you stop shopping at Amazon or things like that, you, by boycotting and re- and having that refusal, you are taking away some of their power because the only reason why everybody talks about what's happening on Facebook or Instagram is because everybody's on there. Yeah There's no, like, I think true inherent value in, you know, Instagram or Facebook without the people and creators and things like that that post on there. Um, God knows I don't wanna see anything from Mark Zuckerberg, like Nicole: Oh, yeah. Does he have an account even? I don't even know. Alexa Speed: Uh, I mean, he must, but, like, I don't know. Do you remember when they were talking about the metaverse and they were so excited that they were gonna ... there was gonna be pants? Like, Nicole: Yeah. Alexa Speed: um, and so really, I think it's, it's, it's important to remember [00:42:00] how much of their power is because of you. Even, you know, uh, Amazon being a massive corporation, the reason why they can get you packages in two days is because of their workers, of people in their warehouses that are packing things, because of their delivery drivers, and that are actually, you know, delivering the packages. And so, w- you know, when workers or consumers or whatever it may be strike and fight back, they're taking away that power because inherently we give it to them Nicole: Mm-hmm. Yeah If you're up for it, I'm kinda... What's coming to my mind, and, and it's so exciting to have you on the phone because, like, you and I, we worked in social media in 2014. Like, th- this is like, I remember convincing some of our clients that it was worth spending time there. Like, they were still, like, very wary about, like, [00:43:00] is this an good investment or should we still be buying billboards on the side of the road, right? Like, it was very much like that was the discussion. Do, like, sometimes... I'll, I guess I'll say how I feel first and then question. Like, sometimes I feel weird about, like, my early 20s, right? Like, I was young, but my participation in, like, someone who was using words to, I don't know, convince people to buy things on social media, like, I don't know. Do you ever reflect on that? What are your feelings? Alexa Speed: ~Um, ~I don't personally... ~So, sorry. Take a second, second go of it ~I started working in social media even before we started working together. Um, and very similarly, you know, was working with large corporations that were kind of like, "Okay, I guess we'll put some money towards Facebook, but we're gonna spend, you know, 90% of our dollars on TV." And even just digital, like, investment in advertising was, was still kind of hard fought back in those days. But I don't feel [00:44:00] complicit in, uh, like pursuing... Like, basically I kind of within my media car- media advertising, um, paid marketing, et cetera career, I specialized within social media, but I don't think... I don't blame myself for social media's problems or, uh, or the, the kind of the issues that have come with its rapid rise because I think that what you and I were doing was saying, "Hey, this thing's happening. You know, client, company, whatever, should take advantage of this." Um, and I think had we not said it, someone else would have. Like, it was more a larger... I think the larger problem was the fact that social media grew in such a way where it was consolidated. Um, you know, Facebook should have never been able to buy Instagram, um, Nicole: Hmm. Alexa Speed: and I think there was another [00:45:00] acquisition, uh, that I don't remember off the top of my head. But when you have, you know, these major tech platforms that are rising in popularity with very little government oversight, um, or regulation, and then on top of that you have consolidation within it where, you know, Facebook buys Instagram, the big competitor after them. And then even with TikTok, I mean, you have Larry Ellison, um, the founder of Oracle, who i- bought TikTok and now tried to make, you know, has this American version of it and wants to control it and things like that. So all this to say, I guess I don't feel complicit, but I do understand that there's a lot of issues within social media. I mean, I'm a, you know, I'm a content creator. I make videos for social media, but I also kind of hate it. Like, I don't really like engaging with my friends on there as much as I do just talking to them in person or texting with them [00:46:00] and, like, having more of that conversation versus... Although sending each other memes and things like that is always fun. Nicole: Yeah, that's like the main thing I miss. I don't use it anymore, and that's what I miss the most is, like, sending memes to friends. Um, and yeah, what you and I were trying to do in 2014 was, uh, pay New York City rent. Alexa Speed: Yeah. Yeah, Nicole: was trying to do. I wasn't thinking so much about this big picture, but sometimes looking back, I guess all I'm trying to say is sometimes looking back I'm like, "Ugh, like I wish, I wish I didn't... I wish I was writing poetry instead." Alexa Speed: Yeah. I mean, looking back, there's a million things I wish I was doing. Nicole: That's fair. Um, okay. Well, one of the last things I have in my notes that I do wanna touch on is this quote from, uh, Era- Erica Chenoweth, right? The Am- American political scientist, professor of public policy. Uh, and she says, which is probably something you're familiar with, that, "No government has withstood a challenge of 3.5% of their population mobilized against it during a peak event." I don't know much [00:47:00] about that data, but I wanted to present it in case you do. Like, what do you know? What can you share? Alexa Speed: Um, I'm not intimately familiar with the data, but, um, from my understanding, it's basically like a meta-analysis of movements from the last, what, 50 years or something like that. Nicole: I'm not even sure. Yeah Alexa Speed: but essentially, if you have nonviolent resistance with 3.5% of the population, then... or more than that, then basically, yeah, like it- the bad government is, is overturned and things. And so I think we have gotten close to 3.5% participation in, like, No Kings, um, and other, uh, protests, especially, um, after everything that happened in Minneapolis in January, um, with two people being killed by ICE. [00:48:00] Um, that being said, I think- It's one of those things where I think people use it as a beacon of hope, where we don't have- we don't need to have every single person on our side, we just sort of need enough people. Um, and I think that's very true. Whether 3.5 is the hard cutoff or maybe, you know, at this particular moment in the US it actually maybe needs to be 5% or something, I don't know. But I do think that there are significant historical examples of people, you know, protesting, boycotting, otherwise, um, you know, taking action against an unjust government and seeing, like, safe power transfers where, you know, it doesn't end up in, like, a civil war for 10 years or something. Um, or it doesn't end up in, like, some crazy repression, although I'm sure there are many examples of, of that happening [00:49:00] as well. But I think it's... I think at the end of the day, it's a great example of hope and, like, you could get bogged down in the particulars of that 3.5% figure and what data it's based on, and whether that's relevant for the US or things like that. But I really think at the end of the day it shows that you don't have to have every single person on your side, you just need enough of us. And I, and I think that we've seen, you know, protest crowds growing, um, practically with each big No Kings Day. Um, I feel like I have gotten a ton of, um, you know, views, traffic, whatever, uh, engagement with my videos that talk about any, like, corporations, alternatives to corporations that, uh, collaborate with ICE in one way or another. Um, and I think people really, [00:50:00] really hate ICE and wanna fight back. Um, so I feel like even if we're maybe not at that 3.5% yet, I feel like we get closer every day, and I do think at some point or another there is a tipping point, um, where so many people are frustrated and fed up, and feel like they have no other options, that they, you know, will go to a protest for the first time in their life or things like that Nicole: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I do wanna spend some time as we c- come up on the end of our chat, which feels crazy. I feel like this hour flew by. But let's talk a little bit about what you're doing at Cut Off The Spigot. Like, when someone, um... And we'll, we'll include links in the show notes and tell people where to go, but I wanna give them a little sense of, like, what they can expect to find if they do come to, come to you Alexa Speed: Yeah. So, um, with Cut Off the Spigot, essentially what I do is on my Substack, um, and this is also posted to my website, [00:51:00] but I write an article each week looking at a different category, um, and finding alternatives to the major players in that category. So, uh, recently I actually refreshed, um, pet supplies 'cause it was one of my first articles, and I've gotten better at researching since then. Um, but I did, like, a refresh on that. And so a lot of times what I'll do is I'll look at, you know, the major companies in that space, whether they're good, bad, questionable. Um, and then I also surface a, a lot of, um, different companies you could shop at. But I also look at things like, um, library resources or, you know, buy nothing groups, um, like thrifting, secondhand, repair, all that stuff. So it's not just about, you know, "Hey, I wanna shop differently." I mean, if you do wanna do that, great, definitely come check out Cut Off the Spigot. But, [00:52:00] um, I also kind of view it as, like, a different way to, to source goods in general, um, when those, you know, resources are, are available. Nicole: Yeah Alexa Speed: Um, but yeah. So basically I do all the research so you don't have to. And, um, I try to really make sure I'm going in depth and covering different parts of a category. So with, uh, pet supplies, for example, like, I looked at not only, you know, pet food and treats, but medications and also, like, okay, what if you have a bird or a turtle and not just a dog or a cat? Like, I try to be as sort of inclusive as possible, um, when-- or try to think about all the different kind of needs within that category when going through. But yeah. And then in terms of the actual research and evaluating companies, uh, I look at their ownership structure. So, you know, are they ultimately, you know, are they privately held? Are they owned by private [00:53:00] equity? Are they publicly traded? Are they employee-owned or is it a co-op? Uh, I then look at whether or not they've spent money on lobbying. So Which I do try to, like, drill in on what actual issues they're looking at because, um, it's not always immediately clear, you know, if they're lobbying for or against something. But, um, generally if they're spending money on lobbying, I don't recommend them. And then the last part is, um, you know, diversity, DEI, like do they have a policy? Um, did they get rid of it because of right-wing pressure, um, or other... or the current Trump administration? Um, and then also I just look at ties to Israel, um, from, you know, the perspective of Israel's committing a genocide in Gaza and, um, not wanting to, you know, recommend Israeli companies who may indirectly or [00:54:00] directly benefit from the genocide Nicole: Alexa, that sounds like kind of never-ending work. I feel like there must be always something new for you to like look into or like update. Like, like you mentioned updating the pet supply article, like things must change constantly in this space. Do you find that? Like, is it... It feels big Alexa Speed: Yeah. No, absolutely. It would be nice. I would love to have someone that just, like, maintained because there's alway- like, uh, going through and refreshing one article, there actually was, like, an ownership change which made a company that I had previously not recommended recommendable because the owner, the holding company was bad. Um, so it does change a lot. I think, though... I mean, one of the w- hardest things to stay on top of is, like, mergers and acquisitions 'cause there's just so many of them. Um, but I kinda do what I can and then, you know, update things as I, as I can or if there are, like, major, [00:55:00] major changes. That being said, it, uh, the fact that there's always something to research is kind of what's fun about it, you know? Like, I love that, I don't know, there's, I think the, like... I have, um, autism and ADHD, and so I feel like the autism side of my brain is like, "Yeah," like, "Let's drill in, and let's, like, figure out every single thing we can and figure out options for every single scenario." And then my ADHD side is like, "Okay, now we've done that. Let's find a new category." And like so it, it kind of works well for my particular brand of neurodivergence. But, um, it is something that sort of feels never-ending, but at the same time, um, I can only... You know, I'm one person. I can only put out so much content a week, so I try to, uh, do as much as I can when I do cover something so that way, you know, hopefully I don't have to cover it again inside of a [00:56:00] slightly different format. Like, it's kind of like once I go in, I go hard. Nicole: Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's amazing. I feel like everything you put out is so valuable, and for anyone looking for alternatives to some of the big players, you just did a series on Google, right? Some Google alternative Alexa Speed: so I'm going through my de-Google series right now, which is pretty meaty. Um, but I have part one and part two out, um, which goes over search engines, um, generative AI, so like Google Gemini or ChatGPT alternatives if you do like using those tools. Um, and then browsers and things like that. But then I'm kinda gonna try to cover everything within the Google Suite, so eventually I will be doing like email, Google Drive, Google Docs, Map, Android. There's probably something else I'm forgetting, but yeah. So, uh, if you've ever wanted to get rid of Google 'cause they're annoying and awful, Nicole: Yeah. Alexa Speed: uh, definitely check out my work Nicole: Yeah, and [00:57:00] that is one that I hear is like among like my like, again, solopreneur bubble, like that's the biggest pain point one is Google. Like how do we get out of Google Drive? Like it's really, really hard. Um, cool. So yeah, I'm excited for that series, and everyone should go check it out. Okay, so where on the internet should we send them? Where should people find you? Alexa Speed: Yeah. So, uh, you can find me, um, on all the major social media platforms @cutoffthespigot. Um, you can subscribe to my Substack, uh, which is just, uh, cutoffthespigot.substack.com. And I, like I said, I publish a new article every Friday, so you could sign up and get those, and get the latest and greatest. Uh, 'cause I will be honest, sometimes it takes me a little bit between the article and the video being published. Um, and, um, and then also, uh, I am 100% community funded. Uh, Cut Off The Spigot is my full-time job. Um, it is a lot of work to [00:58:00] do this research, and then also not only to do the research, but then, you know, to package it into articles and videos. And if you go to my website, there's, like, resources and search tools, and things like that. So I really try to make it so, um, this information is as accessible and easy to use as possible. But, uh, if you wanna support my work, you could go to patreon.com/cutoffthespigot, and starting at $5 a month and up, you get access to my new podcast called The Learning Curve. Nicole: Well, that was Alexa Speed: Yay. Um, which is basically I'm using it as a way to talk about larger kind of systemic, um, changes, issues, things like that, and different ways to approach. So the first episode is about shared ownership, which covers, you know, employee-owned co-ops, things like that, and, and what that kinda looks like right now in the US, and, and ways we can, you know, kinda promote it [00:59:00] and things, and what it could look like. I think that is everything. Website, social media. Did I say my website, cutoffthespigot.com? Nicole: I don't know, but we should, y- people should definitely go there because there is merch. Alexa Speed: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, uh, and um, but if you don't remember any of that, you can go to cutoffthespigot.com, um, where you'll find links to all the things I just mentioned. You can also, um, buy merch. There's a cool water bottle that says, "Filled with billionaires' tears" if you, you know... I think that one's pretty awesome. I take it to the gym. Um, but yeah, you can find merch, like I said, and resources and links to everything else. So yeah, just check out cutoffthespigot.com, and you can find all my work Nicole: Amazing. Alexa, it is, I'm just so glad we reconnected in general and that you came on the podcast, and thank you so much for sharing your time and expertise with us Alexa Speed: Yeah, no, thank you so much for having me, and I'm so glad we reconnected too. This has been amazing Nicole: ~ All right. Now I'm gonna stop recording. Wait hold on. Sorry. Zoom moved everything into... I don't know how to stop it anywhere. Okay, there we go~ [01:00:00] Thank you so much for listening to It's All Poetry. It means the world to have you here. You can find all the resources and links from this episode in the show notes. The music that you hear throughout is by Jack Pierce. And if you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a five-star review wherever you listen, so that we can spread the love of language and etymology far and wide. There's also a bunch of other stuff that you might want to check out, from my weekly newsletter with marketing prompts, to one-on-one copy coaching for your business, some copy courses, and a few other things that I'm not even aware of at the time of recording because I add stuff all the time. But everything is right there at copypoetics.com. Thank you again for loving words with me. I'll see you next [01:01:00] time