Latest / The SmallBizChat with Melinda Emerson / The Intel and Introduction Behind Referrals with Joanne Black

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The Intel and Introduction Behind Referrals with Joanne Black · The SmallBizChat with Melinda Emerson

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  Technology is great for research.
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  We have AI, all of these, this technology now that if we're researching prospect, we can find
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  out lots about them.
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  If they're a public company, oh my gosh, it's all out there.
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  But That's how we do our research, that intel, period.
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  But for the introduction, We are the only app.
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  3, 2, 1, 0, technician.
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  I left off.
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  Ending small business failure.
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  Welcome to the small biz chat podcast with the number one small business expert, Melinda
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  Emerson.
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  Melinda's goal is to end small business failure.
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  And she'll give you the information you need to succeed and live the life you dream of.
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  Now here's your host, the small Biz chat lady herself, Melinda Emerson.
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  Hi, everybody.
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  This is Melinda Emerson, the small biz lady.
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  America's number one small business expert.
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  And it is my pleasure to welcome you to another episode of the small biz chat podcast.
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  We have an amazing show in store for you today.
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  If you're trying to figure out how to get more leads, I've got an expert here that's gonna
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  help you out.
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  Now if you're looking for how to grow your business with referrals, that there's a ill, a
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  secret to that.
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  So we're gonna talk about that.
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  The goal of all of this is to help you with your long term business strategy.
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  Here on the small business chat podcast, we talk about how to start and grow a successful
• 1:45
  business.
• 1:46
  Our mission is to end small business failure.
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  And we bring in guests with amazing expertise to give you advice from multiple angles to help
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  you take your business to the next level.
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  Now the small beach tap pockets is a peer to peer mentoring show.
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  We're really about giving small business owners and valuable business advice that they
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  otherwise would have to pay for.
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  The small Bishop podcast can be seen on my small business lady YouTube channel and on my
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  Facebook page.
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  So please do me a favor and subscribe to both and share it.
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  More people need to know about how to get great information to grow their business.
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  And now it's time for me to introduce my first guest.
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  Joanne Black is America's leading authority on referral selling.
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  She's not bragging.
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  Her publisher gave her that moniker.
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  And she's taking it.
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  Referrals work whether you're looking for a job, wanting a promotion, need clients, or
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  looking for a date.
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  She's written 2 books, no more cold calling, the breakthrough system that will leave your
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  competition in the dust, and pick up the damn phone.
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  How people, not technology, sealed the deal.
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  Joanne founded her company in 1996.
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  She works with business owners to drive revenue to propel growth the referral.
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  Please join me in welcoming Frank San Francisco, author speaker, and sales
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  contrarian, Joanne Black.
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  Welcome, Joanne.
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  That's a great welcome, Linda.
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  Thank you.
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  Oh my gosh.
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  I have known you for so long, and I'm so glad that I finally got you on my podcast.
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  So tell me, how did you get started in business and how did you discover referral selling?
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  Well, first of all, I never thought I'd be in sales because I was the shiest kid you would
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  ever wanna know and a young adult as well.
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  I'm still an introvert.
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  You know, people think of sales as the used car salesman and I'm not that in good sales people
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  aren't, which you and I, I think everybody knows now.
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  But it started.
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  I worked for 2 different consulting and trading firms.
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  And in 1996, the economy was great And my colleagues said Joanne start your own business
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  and it turned out my first client was an outplacement firm, a small replacement firm,
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  and I was working with them on their sales strategy.
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  Referrals haven't even come into my head yet.
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  Well, at the same time I was with them, they were doing a customer satisfaction survey of 50
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  for their best clients, and I added this question on the last round.
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  Would you be willing to be a referral to this client?
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  Well, 7 point scale came back 6.5.
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  So the next meeting with the management team, I said, look, 50 of your best clients saying
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  they'd refer you.
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  Are you asking?
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  Well, you can guess the answer.
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  It was no in 1996 and it's still no now.
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  That's how it started.
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  Wow.
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  So why are referrals the number one way to drive revenue?
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  Everybody loves referrals.
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  We know because we get an introduction.
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  Right?
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  So when you're introduced to someone you wanna meet, you get the meeting.
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  It's not x number of dials.
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  I don't need to send 12 cold emails, any of that, though it's a huge savings in prospecting
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  time because none of us like the prostate I don't care who you are.
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  It's not our favorite thing.
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  But with referrals, it is.
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  And here's what happens.
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  That we gain trust when we're introduced to someone that our referral source knows very
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  well The trust our prospect has for that person transfers to us.
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  So just pitch you back.
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  You're here.
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  We have trust, and the hardest thing for salespeople or anybody in business to earn.
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  We all know that because we have that used car salesman thing in our heads.
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  And so that's one of the reasons referrals are so great.
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  It saves time increases productivity, We get the meeting with the right person, and then
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  they can refer us to other people either within their company or do their counterparts and
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  other companies.
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  Now here's a huge statistic.
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  When you look at people you've been introduced to in the past, and they are a prospect.
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  Think about the percent of time that person actually became a client.
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  That's the conversion rate.
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  Well, years ago, actually, no.
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  Isn't the conversion rate 60% on warm referrals.
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  Isn't it 60%?
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  It's more.
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  It's more.
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  So he I think polls all the time.
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  So it always used to be 50%.
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  And then about 5 years ago, when I asked that question, now it was 60, tier 0.7 days.
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  Some people even said 90 and some people said 100.
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  So it's huge, and that's really how it drives revenue, right?
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  We have a qualified prospect who's become a client We convert them, and and we drive
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  revenue.
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  Referrals drive revenue.
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  All day, all day.
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  But now, you know, with the internet selling and all this automation and all this stuff, Why
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  do you feel like referral selling is even more important today?
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  It's great in any economy.
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  But in a down economy, it's even better, and we've had many of those in the last 30 years,
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  many More than we'd like to think about it, here's why.
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  When you're introduced to someone that your prospect knows and trust you will always get
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  the meeting and especially in times that are down a recession or otherwise, They're always
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  gonna talk to that person.
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  Everybody else are gonna refuse because they're very busy and working on their own strategies
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  in their own company.
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  Now you have very specific definition for referrals.
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  What is it?
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  An
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  introduction.
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  Period, you know, it used to be, oh, give you a name, email or Carmelinda and tell her I told
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  you to reach out to her.
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  Does that work sometimes?
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  But here's the power of the introduction.
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  And this is happening to me tomorrow.
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  I was just introduced to someone.
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  You have the opportunity to get all this intel about your prospect because on LinkedIn,
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  anywhere on the web, we only put there what we want people to see.
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  So I always ask about well, tell me about this person.
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  How do you know her?
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  What's she like?
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  What's important?
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  Why do you think she'd be interested in speaking with me?
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  What's going on in her business?
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  That's the power of an introduction.
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  And that's why you never ever ever ever ask for an introduction on social media or through
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  email.
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  Because you missed that opportunity to get that intel.
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  It's the biggest differentiation ever because when we get the introduction, we get the
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  meeting, and then we're in, and now it's our opportunity to build relationships, get in
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  first, all of that matters depending on the size of the company.
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  You know, sometimes they'll issue a a request for proposal.
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  And I'm telling you, if you haven't been involved in creating that, don't bother because
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  you won't win.
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  Somebody else is in there.
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  Right?
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  Right.
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  It it no matter who you're selling to, people still do business people that they like know
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  and trust, period.
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  It doesn't matter if your number's lower.
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  If nobody knows you, nobody cares.
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  Right?
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  I mean, at the end of the day, that's what it comes down to.
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  Now I know that you're all about getting on the phone, getting that intel, but is there any
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  technology you can use to go of referrals?
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  I mean, you talked earlier about an example of someone adding one question to a survey.
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  I mean, like, is is technology persona known?
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  Roto would it come to getting referrals?
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  Oh, let me see how I'm gonna answer that, Melinda.
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  Technology is great for research.
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  We have AI, all of these, this technology now that if we're researching a prospect, we can
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  find out lots about them.
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  If you're a public company, oh my gosh, it's all out there, but that's how we do our
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  research that intel, period.
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  But for the introduction, we are the only app.
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  Alright.
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  I'm a take that as gospel because you said it.
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  Alright.
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  Now there's no secret that, you know, that that there's a crowded marketplace you know, people
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  are losing, using technology, there's globalization, competitions everywhere.
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  So how do you ensure that a buyer chooses you?
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  Like, even after the introduction, Like, how do you how do you close them?
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  Well, insure.
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  You can't insure.
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  I don't know.
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  I do know what we all need to do is ask great questions.
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  No pushing, no pitching, no talking about ourselves because here's thing.
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  Nobody cares about us.
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  They only care about what we do for them.
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  Our conversations need to be conversations.
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  And here's the thing, if we are not the right person, We need to say no and then refer them
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  to someone who can help, but the trust is there.
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  We can't bring We can't break it by being a pushy salesperson.
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  Right.
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  We earn it by building that relationship asking good questions and probing because I think most
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  of us know the first problem people come to us with is not typically the real problem.
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  Right.
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  When you get in there, you find out what the real story is.
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  Right?
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  What they weren't willing to tell you what the real problem is until you get inside and you
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  can kinda see for yourself.
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  But let let's talk about LinkedIn for a second then.
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  Because I am connected to, oh my gosh, over 17,000 people on LinkedIn.
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  And all the time I get requests from people, will you introduce me to so and so?
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  And Not times out of 10, it's from somebody else.
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  I don't know.
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  So it's like somebody I don't know is asking me to introduce them to the CEO of Pitney Bowes or
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  something.
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  They don't go in I'm not doing that.
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  I don't know you.
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  I don't know you from Adams Allie Cat.
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  I'm not doing that.
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  Right?
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  But but I do see a lot of every now and again, an actual friend of mine emails me on LinkedIn.
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  It says, hey.
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  Do you know someone so?
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  And I respond.
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  Yes.
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  I know them really well.
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  What do you need me to do?
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  You need me to call them?
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  Do you need an email deduction?
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  Do you need a record?
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  Like, what's going on?
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  And then they will call me and say, hey.
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  This I'm interviewing for this job or bump up.
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  Can you Absolutely.
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  If it's somebody I actually know, but I think that social media has somehow made people feel
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  like we're cool and and we're even if we're not, like, like, a connection, sometimes people
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  confer that as a relationship.
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  And, and, and I see people using platforms like LinkedIn incredibly inappropriately.
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  I mean, we're not even gonna talk about the people pitch you 5 seconds after they connect
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  to you because that's a whole other thing.
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  But but just this, the audacity of people to ask you for a referral and you don't know them.
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  I I don't know why, you know, have you seen a lot of that?
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  Have you heard people talking about that?
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  Yes.
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  I have, and I'm sure several years ago, LinkedIn had a button that you could click and
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  then you're asking someone for a referral.
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  Well, then drove me up a tree but they took that off, and it's still happening.
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  But, no.
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  And here's why.
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  You would never do that because If I'm giving you a referral Melinda, my reputation is on the
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  line.
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  So I'm telling someone do you need Belinda because then I give a solid business reason and
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  here's the nuance.
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  I'm gonna refer you, Melinda, because you're a nice person and you're sharp.
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  Forget the fact I've known you for at least 10 years, but beside that, but your prospect is
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  not gonna take a meeting because you're a nice person.
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  Right.
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  You're gonna take the meeting because it's a valid business Mason.
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  Right.
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  And I think sometimes people even people that'll email you to pitch, I I got an email
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  earlier today someone who wanted me to just help them promote their their app that they
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  have that helps people, you know, schedule appointments and stuff.
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  And I And I emailed the guy, and I was like, tell me why I should help you.
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  Like, like, I don't I don't know you.
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  People actually pay me to promote products, but but for kicks and giggles.
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  Tell me why I should help you because that's what was missing from the email that you
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  pitched me.
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  You told me who you were.
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  You told me what you do, but you didn't tell me why should help you.
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  And it's, like, it's crazy.
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  I I just see bad, bad behavior in this area a lot, and I just was curious if you, if you've
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  seen it.
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  Now let me ask you something else.
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  Should you give a friend Like, if you're asking someone for a referral, should you give them an
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  out?
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  You know, should you give them permission to say no?
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  Or should you know better than if somebody could say no, they're not the person you should
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  be asking.
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  Here's what happens.
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  So I've had my company 26 years.
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  No one has ever said no.
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  And if you're asking and they're not the right person, they'll refer you to the right person
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  because you have a relationship.
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  You only ask people you have a strong relationship.
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  It's not who you think would be the best connected.
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  You always go with a relationship because that how you get your intel.
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  That's how you learn.
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  Always.
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  And if you're not the right person, you will tell them but if I refer you and you don't
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  follow-up and you pitch and all of that, it reflects on me.
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  So I'm never gonna do that.
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  Mustn't have a relationship.
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  I love it.
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  I love it.
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  So, Joanne, I wanna switch gears with you a little bit should you offer incentives for
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  referrals, like, like, to customers?
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  If you don't have a a b to b business where you get to know your customers personally, you got
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  a B2C business, should you offer incentives for referrals?
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  No.
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  It's pretty typical in B2C.
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  But indeed to me, I say no.
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  I it feels like a bribe, actually.
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  Now sending a personal gift or a donation after the fact.
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  Absolutely.
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  In sending salespeople.
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  Do you have salespeople or people in your company?
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  Absolutely.
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  Because this cost you nothing.
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  Right?
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  A referral cost you nothing except one thing.
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  The price of a stamp, because you're gonna put that on your handwritten thank you note, and
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  actually mail it.
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  Love it.
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  Love it.
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  So can you get referrals without asking, Joanna?
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  It happens.
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  I call those inbound referrals, and they would happen.
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  A client says, oh, we need you to come in and do some more.
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  Or they'll tell other people to contact us or something comes in on the website.
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  That's inbound.
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  We have no control over that.
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  We need to be outbound, which is proactively asking for referrals because growing our
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  business is not about sitting back and waiting.
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  Exactly.
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  No matter the size, I'm a small business owner.
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  I've been that twice, and I'm sticking to it.
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  What would you say is the biggest missed opportunity in asking for referrals?
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  It's asking our customers.
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  Again, just like that first meeting, no one was asking, and it's happening now and I talked to
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  a lot of people and I do polls on podcasts on webinars when I'm working with a client.
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  Who has asked every single one of their clients with whom may have a relationship for a
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  referral.
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  Not happening.
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  That is the biggest gap today.
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  It always has been.
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  But, you know, clients are thrilled to help us.
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  They just don't know what to do.
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  You know?
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  And everything is
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  You're reprogramming my head.
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  I'm now gonna start preaching this.
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  I always preach keep your customers, you know, customer retention.
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  So now I'm gonna start preaching and ask the 4 referral.
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  Turn your customers into an unpaid Salesforce.
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  Ask for a referral.
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  Please.
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  So that's gonna be my new mantra for 2023, I Listen, last question.
• 19:42
  Tell me, what is the best business advice you've ever been given?
• 19:46
  It was my first job out of college.
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  I worked for a women's retail store here in San Francisco that had about only 15 or 20 stores.
• 19:58
  And I was on the first floor and that's the same today, you know, it's cosmetics, it's
• 20:03
  hosiery, it's gifts, it's all those things and I wanted to redo a display.
• 20:08
  So here I am at trainee, you know, I'm gonna redo a display and I asked these people in my
• 20:14
  area, what do you think?
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  And they said to me, it's never been done before.
• 20:19
  Ask Carolyn, that was the manager.
• 20:21
  I went to Caroline and I told her, and I said they told me it's never been done before
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  without missing a beat, she said.
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  That's the best reason I know for doing it.
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  And that has been my mantra.
• 20:37
  I love it.
• 20:38
  I love it.
• 20:38
  Thank you so much, Joanne.
• 20:40
  You have given us some valuable insight, and I have really appreciated you very much.
• 20:47
  Thank you so much to my guest sales expert, Joanne Black.
• 20:50
  Check out her website no more cold calling.com.
• 20:54
  Now listen, if you're interested in starting your dream business in 2023, I wanna encourage
• 21:02
  you to check out my new course, become your own boss.
• 21:06
  It is a 10 week online course that is gonna give you everything you need to launch your
• 21:10
  dream business.
• 21:11
  It starts January 31st.
• 21:14
  I'm doing it in partnership with Drexel University.
• 21:17
  So I can also get you some CU credits at something that you need.
• 21:21
  I'm gonna help you build a business plan and a sales plan so that you're gonna be able to
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  drive sales on day 1 of your business.
• 21:29
  If you're interested in checking out the course, head over to our URL,
• 21:34
  tinyurl.comforward/byob Drexel.
• 21:40
  Now thank you so much for joining us tonight on this episode of the small business chat
• 21:44
  podcast.
• 21:45
  The mission of the small business chat podcast is to end small failure.
• 21:49
  I'm Melinda Emerson Small Vislady, your host, and I will leave you with this.
• 21:53
  You never lose in business, either you win or you learn.
• 21:57
  God bless everybody.
• 22:01
  Thanks for listening to the Small Biz chat podcast with Melinda Emerson.
• 22:05
  Subscribe to this podcast wherever you listen to podcasts and join us next Wednesday for more
• 22:11
  fantastic information and interviews.
• 22:13
  You can find more sources and small business success strategies by visiting Melinda's
• 22:18
  website succeed as your own boss.com.
• 22:21
  Thanks again for listening, and we'll see you next week.