Latest / Chaos and Creativity / Dorothy Robbins: A State of Musical Being

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Dorothy Robbins: A State of Musical Being · Chaos and Creativity

• 0:15
  SPEAKER_05: Hi, Kimmy.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, Linda.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_05: How you doing?
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing good.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm in France.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm playing some shows here and working on music with my friend here.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's fantastic.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_05: That sounds like cool.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_05: What part of France are you in?
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's like on the outskirts of it's like the French countryside, like outside of Paris.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's wonderful.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that's right.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like still it's like still like late summer here, which is nice because Berlin is in fall mode.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, okay, final days of summer.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_05: Which is nice.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_05: Are you how are the shows going?
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: Shows are going good.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: We're playing like so the French band I'm in.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: We're playing our last show for of the year probably in on Friday.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: So that are sweet, but shows are going good.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, just this summer was so busy.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, yeah.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, always going, going, going, playing shows, traveling, playing shows, recording.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_05: So Oh no, no, no.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_05: And I mean, even today you're like you're borrowing the gear to do the podcast episode, which I appreciate.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, of course I was like, oh, I can do this because I'm somewhere where there is podcasts.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_05: Um Do you ever play keyboards?
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: I play a keyboard in this band.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_05: Did you?
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_05: Well then you must be excited about our next guest.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: So let's talk about her.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: Who is she?
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: How did you meet her?
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_05: Uh Dorothy Robbins is a concert pianist, and I met her through her husband at The Buckeye where we first started the podcast.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, it's very funny.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_05: It is very funny.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_05: And this is about two years ago, I guess.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and she told me she was a concert pianist, and I've always had like this envy and respect for the people who play classical music because it it is a different space utterly from what I'm used to and probably from what you're used to, but it's still partially the same.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's like uh it's like when people like do sports for fun versus like people who do the Olympics.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like um it's like what like me doing bands versus the Olympics, which is just classical music.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a different type of it's a different type of creature.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_05: Well, I think the one thing I took away from the interview, which I really enjoyed doing with her, is that you have to have a singular focus from a young age, and I'm in awe of people who can find that.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_05: Exactly.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_05: No, no, she was I think she was 10 and she's like, Yeah, I started late.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_05: I'm like, wait, that's late.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, but um and you and I found our vocation young, but that was in our teens, you know.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: And like still I don't think I'd ever like I did not dedicate to music probably until I was like in my early 20s, you know, where I was really like, okay, I'm gonna really go for it.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm still not somebody who's like practicing the piano like five hours a day, you know.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: Way more like a weird experimental creative type, but the creative, like the classical like the the professional classical music community is like a different piece, you know, like they're a different, it's a different type of person.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: It is really it is it's very much like people who are professional sports people who start really young training and they train every day and they have like a discipline that is beyond.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_05: I absolutely love that analogy and I wish I came up with it, honestly.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: So um well, we can't always get what we want, though you know.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_05: Oh my god.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_05: Um so the other thing I noticed about the classical community is that they're all really cool.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_05: Like Dorothy's a pretty cool she presents herself in a in a sophisticated way, and she's really smart and she's really intriguing.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_05: So it wasn't anything that I expected, but then again, it was everything that I expected in a weird way.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, let's listen to it.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_05: Let's do it.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_05: And as a classical pianist, it's not like a rock concert.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's definitely not like a rock concert.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_05: So um but as I understand it, after doing a little research before talking to you today, you have agents and you have it's it's still the same machine.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yes, absolutely.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: And it is a it's such a small machine because the classical music world is you know, it's not super large.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like everyone knows each other.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and um, especially down in LA, everyone absolutely knows each other.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: You should know that from speaking arts world in LA too.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, but it's it's in my world, it's it's bigger and it's your world definitely.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_05: And there's more, it seems to I mean, I don't know, maybe there's more backstabbing in your world, but that my world's full of backstabbing all the time, which I'm totally happy with.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so like I would say at um when you're in conservatory, especially high school and um when you're in your like undergrad at conservatory, I'd say that's when it's really bad.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: But then it's sort of like if you survive past it all.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_05: It's like a hazing period.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, it's like a hazing, and you survive past it, and then we're all we're actually all just friends.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: I would say once you're especially like at this professional level, especially if you have, you know, doctorates and music, right?
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: We all just want to support each other and help each other.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_05: So the other thing that struck me in doing my research on you was doctorates in music aren't really about the doctorate as much as it's about the accomplishment of the music.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_05: Is that about right?
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_05: Um Or half and half.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'd say it's half and half.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: There's a practicality thing that goes with doctorates.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, because universities require doctorates to get tenure.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_05: Oh so there's a practical purpose.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: If you're a scholar performer type like myself, right, and that's really, you know, what you're doing, what your goals are, is working in universities, right?
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: Then you have to get a doctorate.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: And they kind of like the doctorate of musical arts, which is what I have, um, the DMA, is really for performers and conductors.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, interesting.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_05: Do you have any aspirations to conduct?
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a terrible conductor.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: We have, we have to learn, but I'm not, um, that's not my skill.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_05: Maybe you could break down conducting for me because I just see a and I'm not trying to belittle this at all, but I see Bugs Bunny.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_05: Well, that's I mean, that's obviously my first go-to.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_05: Um, you know, Leopold, Leopold, remember that?
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_05: I love that cartoon.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_05: But I see, and I know there's something going on.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_05: I know there's something very, very serious and very real going on.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_05: And and speaking to a musician who also conducts um, he does film scores, and he also conducts the film, the the orchestra for the film score.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_05: There is a uh uh real purpose to a conductor that I I just don't know how I have a sense that it has to do with timing, but I know it's more complicated.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_05: So lay it down for me a little bit.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean the conductor is the brain and the heart.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, interesting.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: Really, of um of the orchestra or the group.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they have to know conductors have to have a like expert knowledge in all instruments.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_06: Okay.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like they have to know everything.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: They have to have these entire, you know, these are multi-hundred page scores.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, memorized.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: They have to be able to know, and if you if you've seen like orchestral scores, they're like this big.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, they're huge, they're like multiple feet, you know, long and wide, and you have to um they have to know everything that's going on at once.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: They have to have impeccable hearing, wow, you know, and pitch.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so, yeah, they're like, if you think about it, they're kind of they're like the director, you know, if you're thinking in theater or in film, but even more authoritative of the group.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, the orchestra really it's so important you have a good conductor because you're completely, you know, at their will.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they will lead you, they can lead you to greatness, or they could, you know, screw everything up.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, really?
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_05: Well, and I would imagine that conductors have um personality, like different personalities, and and does and I how does that affect the music?
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um I don't I think there, I mean, I think there's kind of a trope of a conductor personality.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's where I think of my head stuck.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I think.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_05: I'm stuck in the trope, and this is why I'm so glad to have you a guest on the podcast, because I want to eliminate the trope and get to the reality.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_05: So tell me.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because you have all sorts, yeah.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, you meet conductors who are that trope, you think of this like very intense kind of diva type, you know, often male, maybe Italian or Russian.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_05: Exactly.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_05: Speaks a lot with their hands.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like throwing things and screaming at people.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: But you have um um, you know, conductors like Ko Wen, who's the conductor um in my undergrad at University of Redlands, and she's this one incredible pianist, but incredibly like soft-spoken, understated type person, but has this undercurrent of intensity.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I would say all conductors definitely have like an undercurrent of intensity.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and it's their it is really you know their own expertise and aesthetics that come out.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: They are all very individual.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, and being when you're a member of the orchestra, because you're a solo pianist.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yes, yes.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: Pianists are we only get the opportunity to solo with orchestras if we're playing concertos.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_05: But when you're in a situation where you're um playing a concerto and you're under the lead of a conductor's at am I saying that properly?
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_05: Um how does their personality shift the the the music?
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_05: I I guess what I'm trying to get at is when you're there and you're watching the conductor and the rest of the orchestra is playing, what is the communication?
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_05: Because it's all visual.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, the and the communication when you're soloing, it is more collaborative between you and the conductor.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: They, you know, you go and you will meet with the conductor beforehand and you will discuss the music.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: You might give them like different tempos you're using in different parts of the piece.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: So it really is like a collaborative effort between solos.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_05: What I'm hearing is you guys are meeting beforehand and you are are discussing the piece.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_05: And you're like, oh, this is how I play this piece.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_05: This is my take on it, so to speak.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_05: And then the conductor would be like, oh, I like that, but how about if we do the is it that sort of give and take?
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: It it depends, you know, because they also might just be practical and realistic.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, because you generally you might have like one dress rehearsal before you perform with the orchestra.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_05: Oh god, that's so you're not having all the ropping right now one dress rehearsal.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like the day of the concert.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_05: It's like my nightmare.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: So no, you're not having tons of um tons of rehearsals with the orchestra, and the orchestra, they only have so many times to rehearse with the music at all.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like a lot of time, it is a lot of sight reading for people.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: They're very busy.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_07: Wow.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: So um, you know, the conductor might be like, okay, let's maybe can we take this tempo down a little because let's be realistic.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, see.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, for what the orchestra can do.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like how fast can those trombones play?
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_05: So, and you just got your doctorate, is that right?
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_05: And how did you start and how did you get there?
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I started piano uh because my mom felt we all needed a classical education.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_06: I see, okay.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: And that, you know, we had to you had to learn piano.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: There's no option.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but then I became like immediately obsessed with it.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, you did?
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and they couldn't get me to stop practicing.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: My parents would have to tell me like no more.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, no kidding.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_05: So what did that obsession feel like?
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_05: And was it for classical or was it just any piano called?
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, it was just classical piano.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_05: So it was immediately for classical piano.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_05: And what did that obsession do you go going back to your childhood when you were starting, what did that obsession feel like?
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_05: What what was the compelling because I have my take on it from my perspective visually, but like what did that feel like for you?
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: It felt like unlocking another world, like I was giving keys to different realms.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: And um I was always really in my head and imagination as a kid, and this gave like a way to enact in real life sort of my imaginative thoughts.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, that's fascinating.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_05: And was it somewhat like a relief or was it a journey, escape?
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: Escape, relief.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it was, you know, my my place.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: No one else could come.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_05: Wow, that's interesting.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_05: I I hear that echoed a lot among creative people.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_05: It's like their space and they want to be there by themselves, but they also want to tell the story.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_05: So, did you find a certain storytelling component to what you're doing that brought smiles to other people?
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it's when I first started um performing, which was really quick um after I started lessons.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: And um I definitely, you know, the music, and this was a very like, you know, childlike, juvenile way of experiencing, I think, music, but you know, I would feel intense emotions when I'd play, and I would put myself into the music and make up stories for the music.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, interesting.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_06: Okay.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I would make up my own little stories I was telling.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: And um I didn't I didn't really understand why people like to listen to me play piano.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_05: That's interesting.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: And when people said I was good, and I remember when I started competing and I was like, competing?
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: What is this?
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_05: What does a competition look like?
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, it's you and how many other people Um It depends on the competition.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and um when you're a little kid, you're usually doing it through like these music teacher associations, you know, and we have all the little kids and they're all dressed up and they go play their little pieces.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's fabulous.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like half of us are crying and oh my gosh.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's really kind of it's definitely more for the parents and the teachers than for the children.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but then you know, as you get older and you start, you know, then you get to competitions that have different, you know, uh like different levels.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: You have to start at, you know, putting in, you know, like international competitions where you submit recordings and then you might get invited to do a second one, and then you might get invited to do a third one.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's an audition process.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: It is an audition process, yeah.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when I did my first international competition when I was 16 um at Oberlin College in Ohio, right?
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: That took um, you know, I had to audition for that.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, wow.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_05: It's a very serious business.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: It is.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: And it like I said, it's kind of when high school it's the most competitive.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_05: And I went to Is that when the most bloodletting happens?
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: Internally.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: Excellent.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think they get um I think the real competitiveness though comes um like in undergrad.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_06: Okay.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but you know, I went to something else I had to audition for um because I graduated from Idawald Arts Academy, which is an boarding arts high school in Idawald, California.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, that was, you know, that was very intense, very competitive.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, a beautiful place and a fascinating place.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but then it's really, you know, I think when you get into undergrad and maybe a bit in the masters, when people start getting clawing.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I used to, I remember there was a rumor going around that people were putting razor blades between the keys.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_07: Oh my gosh.
• 17:12
  unknown: Yeah.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wow.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: In the practice rooms.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_07: Oh my god.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so I would always go and put my forearm down on the edge of the keys to press them to make sure there were no razor blades.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_05: How vicious.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't even I doubt I don't know if anyone actually actually did it, but I mean that was the vibe.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_05: Oh my gosh.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_05: Um, so there's that competition level, but I want to go back to when you said that you were had these stories in your head as you were playing.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_05: Um, I it's you triggered something when you said that because I have stories in my head for when I'm sort of processing some of the writing that I'm doing.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_05: And it's not the story that I'm writing, it is the background story that it's sort of like you're taking yourself to a place to understand yourself.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_05: Is it similar?
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_05: Is it similar, that sort of like thing?
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_05: And is it still the same stories from when you were a kid or do they evolve?
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um like the stri so like the stories when I'm playing.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I think what I came to realize as I got older as a pianist is that it's not really about my story.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's about sort of a higher story, this the trying to be authentic to the composer and their intention.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, it's true.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then my interpretation of how to convey that is sort of my then style, what defines my style.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_05: Let's unpack that a little bit.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_05: That sounds very um intensive but beautiful at the same time.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_05: So what I'm hearing here is that the composer, and many of these composers are sadly no longer with us because they died in the 1800s, but um but they had a good life, so it was fine.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um scarier when they're alive.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_05: Oh my god.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_05: I don't even want to think about it.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_05: We'll get there in a second, we're gonna get there in a second.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_05: But there's the intention of the composer.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_05: Is that something you glean from reading the music?
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_05: Is that how do you how do you the composer's past, how do you feel the intention of the composer?
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, in the past, people's lives were really defined on the letters they sent each other.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: So we have so many firsthand accounts.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, interesting.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, from Beethoven, from Mozart, from Haydn, um, in diaries and things that we can glean, you know, what their intentions were, what their beliefs were.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: Also looking at things, something that's so important is what were the books they read?
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, I never thought about that.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's gonna tell you a lot about someone.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_05: So if like somebody's big on the Dante, it's kind of like, okay.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like list, yeah, big on Dante.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: Big on Goethe.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_05: So, um, so not only are you learning the music, you're learning about the author of the music.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, you I I think it's absolutely essential to authentically convey, and I think it's I think there's no question you have to.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because these, you know, these composers, they put their entire souls into this music.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: And who are you to just go take it and do whatever with it?
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like you have um a duty.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_05: And that's what that I mean, part of the reason that this podcast exists is to sort of open up and look behind the curtain of what goes on from some of the lesser-known arts.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_05: And it sounds like Okay, so you have this duty for understanding the author of the work that you're playing, but then you have your take on that interpretation.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_05: Is that how that works?
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's then you make the choices because you're not, you know, you can research and research all you want, but unless you're playing boules or some, you know, highly um controlled 20th century music, um, like total serialism, you don't know exactly what they want.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so you have to then that's where your own abilities and talents like have to focus on is how to, you know, shape a phrase to bring out the narrative in a piece, how to apply the correct articulations.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_05: Is it sort of a I don't want to say battle, battle's not the right word, but is it a give and take as you're playing and maintaining the intention, but then also putting um your intention behind that or inserting it, or how does that is it is it a blend?
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_05: How does that work?
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think it's like you can never be completely correct.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's kind of that's actually why I'm so obsessed um with classical music and piano.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's really what got me into it is you you're never done and you're already Always reinterpreting.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_05: That is a recurring theme through all the creative field, all the creative fields, because you never really are done.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_05: You really you're constantly working, you're constantly evolving.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_05: And but what I'm hearing from what you're saying is that as you evolve, it becomes a different interpretation.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_05: It's not like you win out over the the author.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_05: You you're sort of interpreting it, and then your skill set elevates and then you interpret more differently.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_05: Is that right?
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_05: Exactly.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's exactly correct.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why it's really important going back and revisiting music.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's why a lot of us kind of have this cycle of pieces, like several hours worth of music or so, and you recycle through those, but then you're always then you're kind of bringing on new repertoire along with that.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: So that you're constantly refining uh these pieces.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um I've worked with a lot of composers, you know, either recording their music or playing it in concert, like modern composers.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: And um I mean they they are there and they can tell you exactly what to do.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_07: Wow, okay.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: And they and they will.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_07: And they have no problem with it.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: No, and they have no problem with it.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, there is um uh one uh composer I really like, a modern Australian composer, Carl Vine.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: His first piano sonata, which I play and have recently recorded, uh when he wrote it for Michael Kiernan Harvey as pianist, um he did two recordings.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: He did one exactly how Vine wanted him to do it, and like every single thing down to like every little articulation, completely as Carl Vine wanted.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then he did his own recording, which he's like, and now the pianistic recording.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_07: Oh wow, okay.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think the issue sometimes you can get with um some modern composers, not all, is they're not always thinking of writing in a super idiomatic manner.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: And they a lot of times they ask you to do things that are just physically impossible on the piano.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_05: Unless you get your toes up on there.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, some of them are into that.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_05: Wow, okay.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_05: Well let's see.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_05: This is a PG-rated podcast.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_05: We're gonna stay away from that.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, sorry.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_05: So what was it like to listen to the two different versions?
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, I think for me the you know, the pianist sort of interpretive version is more fluid.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_06: Okay.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um because this piece, it has a lot of very like it's the music is basically a review of 20th century tropes.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_06: Oh, interesting.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_06: Okay.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: So it has every element.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: It has um even has like in the opening some kind of jazz chords, it has uh twelve-tone, it has pointalism, you know, it has some like Stravinskian primitivism in it.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: So there's really these delineated sections, and that's really hard then.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: How do you put them all together?
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: You have to find connection between them.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I think if you follow Well, and that's the process, isn't it?
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_05: Is finding the connection between Yes.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: You have to find a narrative.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: Even in completely non-narrative music where the composer is like, there is no narrative.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like Stravinsky would say, like, no, there is no, there's no emotion, there's no narrative, absolute objective music.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: You still have to find something because the audience needs something.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_05: So I'm fascinated by the fact that you've said narrative a couple of times.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_05: So as you're interpreting the music, you're also finding the narrative, and then you're delivering that narrative based on what your interpretation is, is kind of it.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_05: And that has got to be very powerful and beautiful at the same time to do that.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you hope so.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you never I don't I know for myself, I can't really ever tell if I'm right.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like is this completely right?
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: And especially you listen to yourself all day, hours and hours a day.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why recording yourself is important, so you can try to get a fresh experience and having other people listen to you to get perspective because you really lose it.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you probably can relate to this when you're writing.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: You start just getting in circles.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, daily.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_05: Really?
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_05: Daily.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_05: But so when you have people listen to something that you've played to get some input on, are you going to people who are professionals that have good ears, or are you asking for sort of a common sort of ear?
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, really?
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: We need both.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, interesting.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because you know, the the thing is is sometimes us professionals, we can get a little too bogged down in details.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_06: I see.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: And you have a concert next week, we're past that point.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_06: I see.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_06: Okay.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: And that you can only make a maybe if you're lucky, a couple changes.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_05: So I would be terrified to listen to music that you played to give you my take on it because I would think that I'm too That sucks because I was gonna ask you to help me with my recordings.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, no, I'll totally do it.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_05: I'm totally in.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_05: No, but I I guess the point that I'm trying to get to is that I I don't know if I have sophisticated enough ear.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_05: That's my fear.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_05: That's actually more of a fear.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's silly because everyone knows music.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's so universal and intrinsic to humanity.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, that's a good thing.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_05: That's okay, that's cool.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, there's no those are I love um after I have a concert going to everyone, you know, in the audience when you do like the meet and greet afterwards and hearing, you know, what was your favorite part.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: And people will start singing like, oh, it's the part that's like.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's fun.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, and you know, and it reminded me of this.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, so you get a lot of sort of back and forth with the audience as well.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, at a very real level as opposed to a very technical level.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: No, you do, and um I've mentioned before, like when you're when I'm playing, I it is um sort of a dialogue with the audience because I can feel them.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I can tell if they're really connecting to sort of an affect I'm portraying.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_06: Interesting.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like if it's darkness or sadness or anger, and if they really are, then I try to lean into bringing out that effect in the music.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, that is so cool.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_05: So unexpected.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: Unexpected.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_05: Unexpected.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_05: Again, this comes from a very narrow view of classical music.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_05: I like classical music, but the nuance that you're explaining to me is way beyond anything I would have imagined.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_05: Oh really?
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and it's really it's it's gratifying to know that that exists because now that I'm thinking about it, there's two pieces of music that I've heard conducted by two different people, and it had a very distinctly different narrative.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_05: Now that I know that I can use the word narrative with classical music, which you've just given me permission to do, which is amazing.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, of course.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_05: So um you are going through all of the emotional ups and downs that a rock musician is going through.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_05: It's it's the same thing, less booze, but same, you know what I mean?
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's interesting because I don't personally when I'm performing feel the emotions.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because if I did, I'd lose myself.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_07: Oh, okay.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: You have to be, you know, you go into kind of a very strange place where you're just sort of existing in that moment, very ephemeral, and like I said, you can notice these energies around you, and it's just sort of happening.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_05: You and I were talking about that last week, weren't we?
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_05: We're talking about like going up on stage, and I said detachment, and you said it's no, it's just going to a different place.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_05: And being very sensitive to the audience.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I I think I mentioned to you then that I see it as um like being a vessel for the music.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like a translator.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_05: Interesting.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_05: And but there is an energetic communication happening with the audience.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like I said, I can feel it, and then it's like interpreting because this is like microseconds we're talking about, yeah, you know, that you're trying to change in the moment.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: But it feels like no time.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's everything's in slow motion.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, but yet it goes by really fast.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um so, but I don't because something people always ask me, it's like, oh, I could I could tell you were like, you know, traumatized in that moment and of darkness and feeling.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, well, I'm I'm like glad I made you feel that way.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_05: But does it does that ever make you feel vulnerable though?
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um you are vulnerable on stage.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, inherently, if you're on stage and presenting or anything, yeah, you're vulnerable.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, absolutely right.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_05: But and then to have somebody sort of call that out after the show, I would feel vulnerable.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, I would feel like, oh, wow.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: I d I would say, yeah, for myself, after I have um do any sort of performance, like first there's the euphoria, and then of course there's the crash.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: We love the euphoria, depression and embarrassment.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, okay.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, because you feel very exposed.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: And you have just exposed yourself, and it's like I know this is like a trouble every um every musician I know has is trying to go back and listen to your recordings from these concerts or watch the videos.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: It like takes me forever to face those because you're so um, yeah, like I said, it's this like embarrassment and like cringiness at yourself.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_05: So it sounds like there's a process to go back and get yourself into a zone where you can watch yourself.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: You have to detach, you can't be too close to that particular concert to analyze yourself.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_05: But then from that you're learning more always, right?
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_05: So there's always that sort of I have to do this thing, I don't want to do this thing, but I'm going to do this thing because I'll be a better person for it or a better performer for it.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's also I'd say add in and I can't not do this thing.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like a compulsion.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, well, we're all compulsive, aren't we?
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_05: So the um so high school, and then you got into where did you go after high school?
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, after high school, I went to University of Redlands.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: Where I studied, and then I went uh for my master's to Bob Cole Conservatory at um Cal State Long Beach.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_05: Wow.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_05: I mean the accomplishments to get to where you are are they're like milestones almost.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I would say that's definitely how I think a lot of sort of the more classical geared arts go is like, yeah, you have these sort of milestones you have to reach.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, I th I mentioned to you this uh to you the other week, but when you're you know in school and you're in maybe your second year or in your undergrad, you have to take these qualifying exams.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, performance, they're performance tests, and you do it in front of the whole school and all the professors, right?
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: And if you fail, they kick you out of the program.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, so there's very little pressure then happening there.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: So you ha and you have to do certain numbers of recitals and they have to be at certain levels, just like when you're auditioning for universities, whether it's undergrad, master's, or doctoral, you have like certain levels you have to be minimum playing.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, so I'm gonna put this out there and I could I'm very happy to be completely wrong.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_05: But it's from what I read about rock and roll musicians, some don't know how to read music, and but they can play.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_05: And there is a wild west sort of vibe to what they do.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_05: And your world is a little bit more confined in order to move.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_05: A little more?
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_05: Alright, I'm trying to put that here.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's highly controlled atmosphere.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I've had um how does that affect the creativity?
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: It can hurt it.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's the problem, is your your teacher is not just like when we talk about our teacher, they're not your teacher, they're so much more.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: Who you study with can really make or break you as a it's sort of like a musical sensei.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, musical sensei.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_05: I'm going straight to hell for that comment in terms of it.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: But it is though.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it is like that because and they can get very controlling.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: I had, and I won't name names, a um teacher who controlled everything from how I dressed to how I did my makeup to how I did my hair.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_07: Oh wow.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_07: Okay.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: Had to approve all of my concert gowns.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_07: Oh my gosh.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: How did that make you feel?
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like a robot.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I went through I went through pianistically a really hard time then.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've never had issues with memory.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: Ever.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: But that was the only time in my life I was having any sort of issues um with memory and performance.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_05: Wow, that's a lot.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_05: However, this person still exists and they're still doing their thing, so there must be something they're doing right on some level.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, because their um their philosophy is that is I will break you down and rebuild you.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: Into a better you.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's kind of in my image.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: And wow.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so if you survive that, you will learn a lot about performing and I'd say especially interpretation.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: But I also think that's it limits you because you can only uh you have to be your own person at some point and make your own choices.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh good teachers should be preparing that.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: They you want to be teaching yourself.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_05: This person that you were talking about, was this somebody who would hold on or eventually fled you?
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: Hold on.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, okay.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_05: So there was a certain level of sycophancy that this person enjoyed.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, absolutely.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: And you had to be, you could never disagree with them on anything.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: And they would I cried, I would cry like break down crying.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: I remember I was um I was playing a concerto and I was having a concert, and um I was doing a run-through in this hall, and I thought it had gone really well my playing.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: I thought, hey, that was pretty good.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: And they just looked at me disgusted and shook their head and said, I don't even know what's wrong with you.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: What was that?
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_05: I remember when I was coming up as a photographer, the first agent that I ever had, and I was 18, just just butting up against 19 years old, and I would shoot these pictures, and it was back on the days of film, and we'd have these long strips of film that were positive, so they were slides basically, and you could look through them through a loop.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_05: And he would look at my stuff and say, These are pretty good.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_05: And I would start patting myself on the back, and he would roll up the film and he would throw it at me, he said, if I want good, I'll talk to 90% of the people that are out there.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_05: Oh my god.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_05: I tell that story, and especially in contemporary times where the zeitgeist is more sensitive.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_05: Um definitely people look at me horrified, but I will tell you that had he not done that, I would have never survived the most one of the most brutal industries to get involved in.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_05: So it's angel or devil, right?
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, exactly.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, from this person, I definitely I think they really helped cultivate my sort of performance aura and character.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_06: Okay.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_01: Because as performers, like you do kind of have you sort of adopt a persona on stage.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_05: Interesting.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_05: And um Can you tell me a little bit more about that?
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_05: That's fascinating.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well you know, you're just one person on the stage with all these people staring at you with a giant instrument.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: You have to immediately command the audience when you walk out.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_01: You have to cultivate this aura and persona that makes people want to watch you, want to listen to you.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_05: That's I another a side story.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_05: Um, I was taken to a Tory Amos concert, which was I felt actually really guilty because I got front-row tickets through my agent at the time, and I barely knew who Tori Amos was.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_05: But when you see the fanaticism in the seats, I said, I'm taking the seat that belongs to somebody who's that fanatical.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_05: This I feel like oh, this is good.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_05: You know what I mean?
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_05: But so um, and Tori Amos, obviously being an excellent pianist herself and can play two pianos at once, which is very crazy.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_05: I'm not sure if that's shtick or just how she operates, but I watched the show and it was really, really good.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_05: And I was really taken by the show.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_05: And then the following night I went and saw Jimmy Page and Robert Plant play, and I and the entire audience with me were mesmerized.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_05: I did not have that effect at Tori, or that Tori did not have that effect on me.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_05: Uh-huh.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_05: Could have been not knowing the music, whatever it is.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_05: But there was something now that you said aura and persona on stage, I'm now understanding that that's what that was.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_05: And it's insane, it's intense.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: You you have to have it, you have to be magnetic, because like I said, you are asking a lot of these people.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: Most people in the audience, they're they're not musicians.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: Most of them, they're not going to concerts every week.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, this might be the one time a year they go to a classical concert.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so you had they have to trust you and believe in you.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_05: So you're making a compact with the audience almost.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're making an agreement.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: And you're promising them this will be worth your time.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_05: Oh my gosh.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_05: So have you had a time where you couldn't find the zone to get into, or you couldn't find the aura or the personality.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_05: And how do you recover from that?
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_05: Because you're you're the show must go on, so to speak.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the worst when that happens is when you've just been performing a lot.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_01: When you're having multiple uh performances in a week and you start to feel dead inside.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_07: Oh, okay.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's just it's like a burnout or yeah, you start getting burned out after a while.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you start not feeling anything.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_01: You want to feel some nervousness, you want to feel something before you go out on that stage and when you're on there.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_01: And um, when you start feeling nothing, that's actually a time to be very worried.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_05: That's that's it is interesting because um I just from personal experience, but also other people I taught to do a lot of stage stuff.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_05: If they're not feeling that trepidation before they go on stage, no matter how often they do it, they know something's wrong.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's so true.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember I had been playing a lot and I was about to go on stage one time and I felt nothing.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_05: Oh my gosh.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: Just dead, and like, okay, now I play.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're just a robot going through the motions.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: And uh before I went on stage, I started pinching myself just to feel something.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, that's fantastic.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_05: What a good idea.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it like kind of woke me up and I was able to pull myself out of it.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um that and the only other time is if if um, you know, if you're if you're really ill, you just shouldn't even try.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because you're not mentally, physically there.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: These are, you know, at the end of concerts, I'm absolutely drenched in sweat.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's extremely physical.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_05: And there's a lot of it emotional intensity too, I would imagine.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_01: And mental, you know, work going on with this.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I would say there's only been one time where I was really, really unhappy with my playing, and it was I was very ill and I insisted on playing and I shouldn't have.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_05: You know.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_05: I I think in times like that it's almost stronger to to bow out.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think so too, and now I know that, and now I was a much younger pianist in my twenties at the time, and I was stubborn.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_05: Um so the show that you're doing in Los Angeles is it a concerto?
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_01: No, no.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_05: You're just solo, right?
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_01: No, I'm doing I'm playing solo and I'm playing collaboratively.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_05: You are playing collaboratively, okay.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_05: And how are you mentally getting ready for that?
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_05: Like now we're, you know, what, a month out, and you're practicing or what what what goes into the process of getting ready for the show?
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so this is a show where I'm not I'm not playing my entire repertoire.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because right now I'm playing um a For concerts in the spring.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_01: With this new um concert series in repertoire, I'm uh practicing.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be entirely a vonz Liszt concert.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: And it's based off of Liszt and his interest in literary works, including Goethe and Petrarch.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so this is one of the I'll be playing one of the Petrarch sonettos for this um concert.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then like I said, doing some collaborative work with opera singers.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um but prepping for it is yeah, first you have to learn the music.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_05: Well goes without saying.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so practicing.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: Practicing, and I sort of have a method for how I practice getting ready for things is um you can't start out going all intense all at once.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you'll injure yourself.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, actually that's kind of what I think I wanted to get to without knowing that I wanted to get to it until just this moment that now I know what I want to get to.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_05: Um is you're you can't so you said you can't go in and go into all intense.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_05: So are you picking pieces and then learning that and sh and and assembling or how is that?
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_01: So um, you know, like one of the pieces I'm working on is the Lis B minor sonata based off of Goethe's Faust.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: And that piece is a monster in Piano World.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's famously monster piece.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's killed people.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_01: Probably.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_01: Or they've killed well in some way an aliving happened.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_01: Keeping up, PG.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_07: Exactly right.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's 40 minutes long and it's non-stop.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_07: There's no oh wow, okay.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just brutal and it's really technically demanding, and then you can imagine the emotional and mental intensity that goes into that.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I practiced that piece in sections, and so I'm bringing it back because I played it before.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_01: They're refining this piece.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then these uh Petrarch Sanettos, um, they're these beautiful, gorgeous, you know, little sonnets.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they're based off of actual sonnets by Petrarch.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: And uh they're like these just wonderful little intermezzi, really.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_01: And um they're fun to learn because I I learn them fast.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_01: And oh yeah, he's so pretty.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_05: It's like the palette cleanser for the monster.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's something that goes with um when you're making a program, is you have to think of that.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: You have to think of how you order things in so Oh, so tell me a little bit about that.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_05: So um you have this monster that you're gonna play.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_05: And then you have the senatos.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_05: And you're choosing this in a way that makes sense that you know you can perform it.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: How does it Yeah, yeah, from a practical standpoint?
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: Because the um because the B minor sonata just really does take a lot out of you, you definitely want to balance it.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_06: Okay.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I unfortunately the first time I uh did a program with it, I was doing Beethoven Sonata uh Opus 109, which is a very difficult sonata.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: And that was just setting myself up for misery.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um but so yeah, and I also I like to have a theme for all my concerts.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_01: Have themes, have titles.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_01: It makes it easier for the audience, they have something to grasp onto.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_05: It's it's interesting because we're coming back to that idea of narrative again.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_05: So, like the music has narrative, but the order of music it within the show that you put together has its own narrative.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_05: And um there is intention behind how things are played, but also what is played.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_01: Of course.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_05: And I find that fascinating because again, my narrow view of the classical music world, I not understand until speaking to you the complexity and depth behind it, and it is remarkable and b it's but it's also very beautiful.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, it's a really neat thing to hear um all the trials and tribulations that you go through and also how you assemble, choose, play, learn.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, it's it's all right there.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, it's it's fascinating.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like you, I think intention's a good word.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_01: You have to always be intentional with like every choice you make.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, wow.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_05: Um that could be really sort of like the key to life for the thing.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, probably.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_05: Oh my god.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_05: Dorothy Robbins, thank you so much for being here.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, thank you, Luke.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_01: This is so much fun.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_06: What'd you think?
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_00: I loved it.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um wow, like what a I'm still like thinking about the story where she told with the um with the razor blades, like that rumor and like how crazy and cutthroat that is, if that's true.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_00: Even if it's not like even if it's not but I'm like, that does seem, I mean, everything I know, I have friends who are opera singers.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_00: So that is another layer that like that.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_00: And the competition there is also really intense, especially when you're younger.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you're going to the conservatory.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_00: My little sister went to the um music conservatory in San Francisco, and I remember it was just like a cutthroat environment, you know.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so when I heard that, I was like, yep, that's that seems right.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, I also like about her her piano teacher that um the one that was like so strict, and I feel like so many people have that story that in those worlds, you know, that the that don't that doesn't sound so nice, you know, to have someone like that.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_05: That that's harsh, yeah.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_05: But I mean we should put a link to Whiplash, the movie in the in the show notes because that sort of it is sort of an interesting dynamic that when that happens, yeah, somebody's so stricken so hard that yeah, you're pursuing perfection.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_05: Um and I'm not I still have I mean you and I are rebellious by nature, yeah, and we came to our our disciplines from that perspective, but there was nobody telling us what to do.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_05: We just had to sort of do it.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_05: And this is a whole different world, and um, I have so much respect for it, especially after listening to Dorothy speak today.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, it was really just so eye-opening, and yeah, she's she's such a wonderful person.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, she's yeah, she's such a vibe, such a vibe.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_00: I like loved love listening to her.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_00: And it's interesting, you know, like I when I think about it, like as a musician, what's so different is like especially a lot of classical musicians who are just musicians, maybe not composers themselves, you know, they spend their lives perfecting how to play other people's music in a way that honors the idea of that music, whether it is, you know, something that is from a couple hundred years ago or a modern piece.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_00: They're basically they're in there they become an instrument of that composition.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_05: And well, putting their own spin on it too, you know, 100%.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_05: It's so complicated, it's so complicated.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I really th I really like when she was talking about them when she was talking about how she really tries to like research what um the composers were going through or you know, what their state of mind was and trying to like put herself in that.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost like when actors do method acting, you know?
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a which was I thought was really interesting.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_00: I never even thought of it that way because I don't I don't play other people's music.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I have like played other people's music in bands, but it's not the same thing, you know.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's really another different thing.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's more like here's our song, play something over it you think sounds good.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like here's a composition, uh, interpret it, but also play it exactly like it is on the music sheet.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, you have like that's what's so interesting because you're basically you are playing what's on the music sheet, and between those notes, you have like a tiny bit of space to insert yourself.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_05: I mean again, I'm still in awe about the whole thing.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_05: So it's fantastic.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_05: And it's nice to have something or someone so different to what we usually do on the podcast, which is kind of the idea of the podcast is to really broaden our horizons and sort of introduce our audience to all kinds of different types of creative.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's like the opposite of chaos, you know?
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_00: It is the opposite of chaos.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_00: It is, I will say, like classical music is like not chaos in creativity.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's like very it's everything is there for you.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_00: Even if it is chaos, the chaos is controlled.
• 52:38
  unknown: Right.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_04: You know, which I think is with razor blades.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I yeah, I I mean I love going to the symphony and I love like a really good classical concert is incredible because it is so you're like, how do all of these people sound so good together?
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_00: And then like she said, sometimes they all just have like one dress rehearsal, you know, and everyone is just locked into their parts.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's incredible.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_05: You gotta be so good, you gotta be so disciplined.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_05: Something you and I are not really.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we're like, um we could do that, we could practice for the next five hours, or we could go get a coffee.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_05: I think I think we should go get a coffee because we're never really in that realm.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_05: Like I think we should go get a coffee and dream about being Dorothy.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I you know what, but that's so nice.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I love that because I also know like my friends who are classical musicians or in that world, like they they cannot think about music the way I think about music.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like they can't just sit down and be like, okay, just like jam on a weird thing.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_00: Most of them are not like that.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's not them at all.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's not their creativity.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_00: Their creativity comes out of like having something very structured and then interpreting it.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_05: Interpreting it.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_05: Which I think is cool.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_05: My hat is off to all classical musicians, I'll tell you.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_05: You guys rule.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_05: Good to see you, Kimmy.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_00: Always good to see you, though.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_05: Bye.