Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / When Your Partner Is Depressed, What Is "Helping" And What Is "Enabling"?

Transcript

When Your Partner Is Depressed, What Is "Helping" And What Is "Enabling"? · The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten

• 0:05
  Hi everybody, and welcome to the doctor.
• 0:07
  Psych mom show today, I'm going to be talking about a topic that
• 0:11
  was brought up in my Facebook group and you should join my
• 0:13
  Facebook group. It's all great.
• 0:14
  People who like, to talk about issues, like the ones that I
• 0:17
  discuss. Some, somebody who joined called
• 0:20
  it unprofessional. It is it is not professional.
• 0:24
  There is no structure of it is not like some sort of like
• 0:27
  coaching program. Believe me that will cause more
• 0:29
  than four ninety-nine a month. It is just a bunch of people
• 0:32
  talking about stuff that relates to do.
• 0:34
  Dr. Psych mom topics. And then I chime in and people
• 0:38
  share memes, actually got blacklisted for sharing a meme.
• 0:42
  It was so ridiculous. Was on Gray sweatpants,
• 0:44
  whatever. I talk about literally anal,
• 0:46
  sex, constantly, it like oral sex.
• 0:49
  And like, it was a meme about women, like, in Gray sweatpants.
• 0:52
  And by the time you hear this, I will have been like, a month or
• 0:55
  two ago. But anyway, it was irritating
• 0:58
  because it's happening right now.
• 1:00
  But anyway, the point is, you should join the Facebook group
• 1:05
  if you like talking about these topics and this one came up,
• 1:08
  which is, if your wife is depressed, or of course, it
• 1:10
  could be your husband being depressed.
• 1:12
  What is helping them versus? What is enabling them?
• 1:15
  And some people said, enabling can only be addiction and that's
• 1:18
  not true. So I'll talk about that now,
• 1:20
  right, after I tell you to subscribe because my next
• 1:24
  episode, whatever the hell I decided will be on, will be
• 1:28
  subscriber episode. In the most recent one was why
• 1:31
  you're a partner isn't going to want to make you happy if you
• 1:33
  never act happy, when they They try to make you happy.
• 1:36
  So anyway, depression, so depression can manifest and I've
• 1:40
  discussed this repeatedly as a whole variety of things that
• 1:43
  people don't necessarily associate with a such as anger,
• 1:46
  irritability. Apathy fatigue laying around
• 1:51
  overeating. Oversleeping crying a lot being
• 1:55
  super rejection sensitive. I don't know if I said that one
• 1:58
  yet, just a whole range of things.
• 2:02
  Honestly, eating less, eating more sleeping, less, Sleeping
• 2:05
  more negativity cynicism. So there's a whole bunch of
• 2:09
  things I talked about them. Repeatedly, you could just go to
• 2:12
  the depression section of the doctor.
• 2:14
  Psych mom blog you could sort by category, that's one of the
• 2:17
  categories. So and I've also done posts
• 2:19
  about it. So when you enable somebody
• 2:22
  basically, you're allowing them to be their worst self.
• 2:25
  So if you enable an alcoholic, you're somebody that brings them
• 2:27
  a drink or somebody who calls them out of work.
• 2:30
  When they you know are too hungover, you make something up,
• 2:34
  you make up. Excuses.
• 2:35
  You keep the kids away from them.
• 2:37
  You're basically allowing them and their behavior to be.
• 2:41
  Its worst because you're allowing it to be.
• 2:44
  So, same thing with depression, so in grad school, during my PhD
• 2:48
  program, I work for somebody who study them, behavioral
• 2:51
  activation theory of depression, which shows it's basically you
• 2:55
  know, CBT cognitive behavioral therapy will.
• 2:58
  People also look at the individual parts of that and the
• 3:00
  behavioral part literally, what we did for people with just
• 3:04
  schedule. Pleasant activities that could
• 3:06
  potentially release some dopamine for them.
• 3:08
  And see if that alone would help with depression, helping them
• 3:12
  figure out what those activities would be and being accountable
• 3:15
  to us for doing those activities, whether they're
• 3:18
  going, grocery shopping, or taking a walk, or calling a
• 3:21
  friend, or taking a shower, or whatever.
• 3:23
  The case may be, does the behavioral component alone in a
• 3:28
  vacuum without any cognitive component, such as reframing or
• 3:32
  various skills, to address the Thoughts.
• 3:35
  So does the behavioral peace alone significantly, improve
• 3:39
  depressive symptoms, and the answer is yes.
• 3:41
  So if you get up and you do things then you can that can
• 3:45
  actually release enough dopamine and kind of get you going enough
• 3:49
  and make you proud of yourself enough that you can be kind of
• 3:52
  jogged out of a depression that's worsening.
• 3:55
  And I've obviously repeatedly shared that I myself struggle
• 4:00
  with depression. So this is something that I know
• 4:03
  very well. And that most people with
• 4:05
  depression know, is that there's a lot of times where you have to
• 4:10
  kind of get up and do things and when you do that makes you feel
• 4:14
  good about yourself. So like if you have a pet to
• 4:16
  take care of, of course, a child to take care of sure.
• 4:19
  Like, you can get to a place where it's so severe that you're
• 4:22
  in bed and you don't even, and you can't even take care of
• 4:26
  somebody like a pet or child, but that is unusual thing.
• 4:30
  God for like depression to get that severe.
• 4:32
  There's also mild and moderate depression.
• 4:34
  Action before something gets that severe.
• 4:37
  So in those cases, most people with depression have at some
• 4:40
  point at least thought that because they had to do
• 4:43
  something, it kept them going. Now that in no way says that you
• 4:47
  shouldn't get treated via therapy medication or what have
• 4:51
  you there. Is also, of course,
• 4:52
  treatment-resistant depression and up to 30 cases.
• 4:55
  People don't respond to really much at all.
• 4:58
  So, in those cases, and this is what acceptance and commitment
• 5:01
  therapy, or act talks about you have to To live a valued life,
• 5:06
  even if your mood is not good, even if you kind of are feeling
• 5:11
  sad and blank and apathetic, you still can get up and do, what is
• 5:16
  later going to make you proud of yourself that you did.
• 5:19
  So that is what enabling spouses prevent from happening, right?
• 5:24
  So like there's a difference between doing chores taken over
• 5:28
  some chores for your wife when she's depressed, while she finds
• 5:33
  a therapist tries. Some medication goes on her
• 5:36
  daily walk that she's committing to do to try to jog herself, out
• 5:41
  of the depression. Does her yoga?
• 5:43
  Her meditation, whatever. So yeah, sure.
• 5:45
  Take over the tour's doing that. But if you're taking over the
• 5:48
  tours and she's taking that time, just to sleep, the will,
• 5:51
  then nothing good is happening. She would probably do better
• 5:54
  having to get up and do the laundry.
• 5:56
  Then, if she's allowed to sleep endlessly because her body will
• 6:00
  wants to sleep endlessly. And so, if she never has to get
• 6:04
  up, And there's no plan. She's not going to a therapist
• 6:07
  regularly. She's not going to psychiatrist.
• 6:09
  She's not going to anybody. She's not, you know, because
• 6:12
  there's obviously other practitioners.
• 6:15
  I mean, for example, TMS transcranial magnetic
• 6:17
  stimulation. That's neither therapy, nor a
• 6:20
  medication. It's a big magnet that goes
• 6:22
  around your head that you have to do every day for like six
• 6:25
  weeks or something in the protocol, you can research TMS.
• 6:29
  I'm sure there's a lot of research that that can work for
• 6:33
  sometimes for and depression. So let's say she goes to her TMS
• 6:37
  everyday. Fine.
• 6:38
  So you want to drive her there? You want to drive her back okay.
• 6:41
  Especially if she can't really drive because she's kind of in
• 6:44
  her own world and she has like brain fog, good, you're helping
• 6:47
  but at least she's going somewhere, you know.
• 6:50
  But what people tend to do with people who are depressed, it's
• 6:53
  the same thing with anxiety. So, like a lot of people have
• 6:55
  OCD where they have to check the locks.
• 6:57
  So sometimes the the spouse will start to check the lock.
• 7:00
  So, say you go to the car, I'll check the locks but that doesn't
• 7:03
  mean that the person doesn't have a D anymore, they're just
• 7:06
  included you and basically their boundary of the self, like
• 7:09
  somebody is checking the locks. So they're OCD doesn't get to go
• 7:13
  away. They don't have exposure and the
• 7:15
  in the case of OCD, its exposure to sitting and not letting
• 7:19
  yourself check the locks. So you could see your anxiety
• 7:21
  Peak and decrease exposure with response prevention.
• 7:24
  So you're just doing it for them.
• 7:26
  So you're enabling the OCD to continue to flourish because
• 7:29
  you're the one who's checking and it said, nobody's supposed
• 7:32
  to be checking. So in the case that That you
• 7:35
  have a spouse who's so depressed, they're laying around
• 7:37
  all the time, they're yelling, they're snapping at the kids,
• 7:39
  they're doing whatever you need to say, we need to get you help,
• 7:44
  we need to have a plan, we need to have a therapist for you.
• 7:47
  We need to be trying medications, we need to be doing
• 7:50
  something sure. I'll take over extra stuff while
• 7:53
  we get this in place and I'm happy to take over things that
• 7:57
  you hate doing, you know? But I'm not going to take over
• 7:59
  everything because then, you know, you're not going to feel
• 8:02
  necessary. You're not going to feel needed
• 8:04
  and I We do need you. I do need you as a partner.
• 8:07
  I do need you to do things. I do need you to do X, Y and Z.
• 8:10
  And that being needed can often be the difference for somebody.
• 8:14
  It's not like it's going to necessarily jog them into this,
• 8:17
  super happy mood, but it can make them feel valued and
• 8:21
  feeling valued and necessary is super important.
• 8:24
  A lot of men when they retire they no longer feel necessary.
• 8:27
  So they become depressed. And a lot of people of both
• 8:30
  genders when they are too old to really help with With obviously
• 8:35
  their own children or even their grandchildren in nursing homes.
• 8:38
  For example, they give there was this program.
• 8:41
  They did in Japan where was like a robot pet and the robot pet,
• 8:45
  got rid of some people's depression because it needs
• 8:48
  something it like acts, like it needs something.
• 8:50
  They program it to need to be fed or need to be cuddled and
• 8:53
  this was making people much less depressed because they were
• 8:56
  finally needed to get being needed.
• 8:59
  Is a very, very big part of people's self-esteem.
• 9:02
  As anybody who struggled with being a people pleaser, Our
• 9:04
  Workhorse type nose being needed is like a major source of
• 9:09
  self-esteem, but it's not just for people like that is for all
• 9:12
  humans. So the more stuff you take over
• 9:15
  for your spouse, the less they're going to do.
• 9:18
  Because remember their self-esteem is in the is in the
• 9:20
  shitter because they're depressed.
• 9:22
  So they think they're already a bad mom or a bad dad or
• 9:26
  whatever. So if you take over everything,
• 9:28
  all that does is amplify that you must agree, you know?
• 9:31
  They don't think like, oh, of course, they're taking it over
• 9:33
  because I'm so, Depressed. They think they're taking it
• 9:36
  over because I do a shitty job. Anyway and look, they do a
• 9:38
  better job than me and this can make you do less and less and
• 9:42
  less and then there's less and less of your purview in the
• 9:45
  house. You don't cook.
• 9:46
  You don't clean, you don't hang out with the kids, you don't
• 9:48
  drive you don't this, you don't that some people, all they do is
• 9:52
  their own paid work. And that's it, you know, because
• 9:55
  most people can keep going and doing their own paid work, if
• 9:57
  they're not severely depressed, you know, if they are, and then
• 10:00
  they don't have a job, then they can do anything.
• 10:03
  Then they basically feel completely, Listen.
• 10:05
  Of course, that's not a good way for a person to feel.
• 10:07
  So, overall, what I'm saying is that you cannot take over
• 10:10
  everything for your spouse with depression.
• 10:12
  If you did, let's say that you have a spouse with depression
• 10:15
  and you take over so much. What if you got sick, right?
• 10:18
  What do you think? They would be able to rise to
• 10:20
  the occasion and do you might want to get sick?
• 10:23
  You know what I mean? You might want to test it out,
• 10:25
  you might want to the next time you have a horrible headache or
• 10:28
  or you feel like shit and you get up and persevere anyway
• 10:31
  because you have to take care of your spouse with depression to
• 10:34
  you. May want to see what happens if
• 10:35
  you just say. I can't do it.
• 10:37
  I'm I I got to go back to bed and see if they can rise to the
• 10:40
  occasion because frequently they can, you know, and it kind of at
• 10:45
  least a little bit and if your standards aren't extraordinarily
• 10:47
  high for them. So they're not going to function
• 10:49
  like somebody without depression then then they may be able to
• 10:52
  get themselves back. Kind of at least recognize a
• 10:55
  part of their identity that they've assumed depression as
• 10:58
  take it. Although they don't think of it
• 11:00
  like that. They just think I'm a piece of
• 11:01
  shit. I'm useless.
• 11:02
  I can't do anything. Thank God.
• 11:04
  I have my Spouse because otherwise these kids would be
• 11:07
  really fucked because I can't really do anything.
• 11:09
  So that's how depression makes you think is that you're a
• 11:11
  worthless piece of shit nobody ever wants to think like that.
• 11:14
  So sometimes people who have never struggled with depression,
• 11:17
  think something like oh that person has it made in the shade.
• 11:21
  They're just, you know, laying around must be nice.
• 11:25
  Who the hell wants to lay around to feel like a useless?
• 11:29
  Nothing, nobody does. I mean, it's like the worst.
• 11:32
  It's not like there's anybody in the world.
• 11:34
  Besides real sick people with munchausen's that think, you
• 11:38
  know what I'd like to do. I like to think depressed so
• 11:40
  that I could my children could think of it me.
• 11:42
  Like some of you can't do anything.
• 11:44
  Everybody could think that I am like a Sick Sad useless person.
• 11:48
  That's really what I would like to do know.
• 11:50
  That's like the worst when you're sitting on the couch at
• 11:52
  night and you can't feel you feel like you can't even move
• 11:54
  because you're so depressed. You feel like shit, you feel
• 11:58
  like shit, you're like, oh my God, I could be doing so much
• 12:00
  wrong with me. God, you don't feel like hahaha
• 12:04
  I've done it again. I've made my spouse.
• 12:06
  Do everything while I sit here and scroll on my phone.
• 12:09
  Do you think God, God, I'm so useless.
• 12:12
  Oh, it's disgusting. I disgust myself.
• 12:14
  That's how people with depression thing and this what
• 12:17
  your brain is telling you. So, if you are somebody who has
• 12:20
  ever felt cynical about this, a thought, I'm doing everything in
• 12:22
  my spouse, might be faking, who wants a fake depression people
• 12:26
  like to fake things that make them like better, you know, more
• 12:31
  active, more impressive, more amazing, Not like less not like
• 12:36
  somebody who can do less that this is not anything that may be
• 12:39
  like .001 percent of the world would like to malinger in this
• 12:44
  way. Every everybody else is like, oh
• 12:46
  my God, if I could snap my fingers and have even the
• 12:49
  remotest amount of energy I would and then of course, most
• 12:53
  human beings still function, such that if there were a need
• 12:57
  of big need like if your house went on fire, then you would get
• 13:00
  off the couch because that's an adrenaline jolt.
• 13:02
  But in the absence of the adrenaline jolted, Extremely
• 13:05
  difficult to do anything, because your body is not
• 13:07
  producing, your brain is not producing the neurotransmitters
• 13:09
  that allow you to have any energy.
• 13:12
  So, it feels pretty terrible and I know that from experience.
• 13:15
  So if you were ever somebody who thinks that people with
• 13:17
  depression, just feel like they're getting one over, no one
• 13:20
  does, you know, no or 99.99999% of the world doesn't and are
• 13:26
  begging fate, and the universe to have something changed such
• 13:30
  that they would have their usual or their previous amount of
• 13:34
  energy. We drive happiness ability to
• 13:36
  smile sense of humor, just feel like a person again, right?
• 13:40
  All right, so if this resonates with you, then you could also go
• 13:45
  to a couple's counselor, if your spouse, let's see, refuses to
• 13:48
  see a therapist, you can say, okay, well, I can't deal with
• 13:50
  how things are. We don't really talk.
• 13:53
  I feel like, I don't know how to best support you at this time.
• 13:56
  So I've made an appointment with a couple's counselor, and if you
• 13:58
  get into couples counseling and that the couple's counselor sees
• 14:01
  that your spouse is depressed, they're going to say something
• 14:03
  about it and they are going to to refer them out and hope.
• 14:07
  I mean as a adjunct to your couples counseling and sometimes
• 14:10
  that's the best way to keep make people looking at themselves or
• 14:13
  to make them realize. They have the option of doing
• 14:16
  so, is by getting into couples first and then individual.
• 14:20
  Alright, so I hope you found this useful.
• 14:21
  Please do subscribe and I'll talk to you all soon.