Latest / The Growth Project / Episode 407: High Performance, Hidden Burnout

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Episode 407: High Performance, Hidden Burnout · The Growth Project

• 0:00
  is this pressure that I'm feeling helping me do good work or am I succeeding in spite of that pressure? Right. And that pressure is just, a threat to me.
• 0:14
  Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of The Growth Project, a podcast brought to you by airflow, powered by Elliot Davis. Really, the entire intent of the podcast is to help you pursue better and be better for peak, sustainable performance in the long term. Here with my co-host, Doctor Gaby, caveat is today and
• 0:32
  we're talking a little bit about,
• 0:33
  something that's a little uncomfortable, to be honest with you.
• 0:36
  Really getting at this idea and concept of quiet burnout where you're still performing. But we check underneath the hood. There's definitely something going on there.
• 0:47
  Yeah. And I think burnout, you know, it's something we've talked about plenty of times on the growth project, but taking it from the lens of like, you said, the quiet side of burnout when maybe you're experiencing it, but,
• 1:00
  still performing and others around you may not be picking up on those cues that you're you're silently burnt out, but you're feeling it each and every day.
• 1:08
  Which is a phenomenon that I think is more common than, you'd expect. And, and we have some great research to back that up today and excited to bring this relevant topic to our listeners, especially around the time of the holidays, where, you know, you've got a lot on your plates, maybe professionally, but also personally with family and traveling.
• 1:31
  And we know that burnout can absolutely,
• 1:34
  be more prominent during this time of the year.
• 1:37
  Yeah. It is really a timely episode for this, Gabby, because a lot of times deadlines are really starting to build up, right? People are trying to think like, okay, what do I need to get in get in order for 2027? What do I need to finish up in 2026?
• 1:49
  And especially this idea of quite burnout, right? Where when I feel like as a society, when we talk about someone being burnt out, like, oh, it's very apparent, right? That person is just like the bags under their eyes, right? The constant exhaustion. Right? And they that you begin to see it affect performance, you begin to see it. They begin to miss deadlines.
• 2:07
  Right. The quality of their work, a little bit more error prone. But at the same time, there is this idea that what if the person who's most at risk is still hitting every single deadline? Right. It isn't this idea that it's not always a visible collapse, right? It's something that just kind of leaking in the background.
• 2:27
  And what we know I mean if in the world of sports but also within the general population, it really is performance is that last thing to go right. Like burnout is affecting the individual at so many other levels emotionally, cognitively, physically. But before performance really drops.
• 2:45
  And that individual is really just coping with
• 2:48
  those impacts,
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  at the personal level.
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  And, and that's a burden to bear. So really want to, you know, break that stigma around that burnout and bringing it just to the forefront so that,
• 2:59
  can normalize it a little bit more and,
• 3:01
  recognize that performance is absolutely impacted by burnout, but it's really that, that last and final component that
• 3:08
  goes,
• 3:09
  yeah.
• 3:10
  And even still. Right. Like we'll get into this a little bit later in the podcast because performance doesn't drop. We we almost use it as a workaround. Right. We're like oh like this is like I'm tired. Well this just comes with the territory of this job or having kids or trying to live a well-balanced
• 3:25
  harmonic life,
• 3:26
  But then, you know, ultimately, sometimes we don't realize it until it's too late. Then it begins to affect performance. Like, oh boy, like, now what do I need to do? Right. And there's some good research to back this. Where in back in 2023, 77% of workers experienced work related stress in the previous month and the 57% of those reported negative impacts of that stress.
• 3:48
  Sometimes associated with burnout. Right. So we're seeing major, major portions of the population when we expand this sample out to the broader population, not only being affected by this work related stress, but it compounding and being chronically associated with burnout. Yeah. And and what you're talking about there is that, that compounding effect, I think is very relevant in terms of it.
• 4:12
  It's building up over time. Burnout is not something that just happens overnight, right? You don't just wake up one day. You're you're instantly burnt out. It is a slow progression over time of those compounding work related stressors.
• 4:26
  Kind of going unaddressed in terms of, you know, coping with them and recovering from them. We talked a lot about that in the episodes we've done.
• 4:35
  On the importance of mental recovery, but,
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  it does happen over time. And the longer it goes on addressed, the more detrimental it is on the individual in the organization over time.
• 4:47
  So it's, it's the silent killer of performance over, over long periods of time.
• 4:54
  And just for everybody to get on the same wavelength here, Gaby, I guess we can zoom out a bit and ask.
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  Okay. What? What do we mean when we're talking about quiet burnout? How does that differentiate itself from regular burnout?
• 5:05
  you know that quietness is the isolating factor, right. And it's that piece of,
• 5:13
  I'm dealing with this internally. But I can't express it. I can't let others know. And maybe that's because it's not at a point yet where it's impacting your performance, but it's more so probably due to the fact that you don't want to be judged for,
• 5:29
  acknowledging that you're burnt out,
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  or,
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  you don't want it to interfere with your career growth and progression.
• 5:36
  So there's a lot of factors we'll talk about here, but it's this idea of quiet burnout is solely dealt with by the individual, and it's very isolating because they can't they feel like they can't share that with anyone.
• 5:53
  Yeah. It is almost as though we put up a mask to, to hide it. Right. To not feel lesser than.
• 6:00
  And we borrow a lot of the, the symptoms from the academic world of Christina moore's law. And I know I think the World Health Organization also aligns well with this definition. We see the exhaustion, right? Not just physical exhaustion but the mental exhaustion. So everything every problem solving, every critical thinking, every project. Now requires just a little bit more effort.
• 6:20
  It's a little bit more difficult because of the brain fog.
• 6:24
  As well as this level of cynicism that's associated with burnout, where we detach ourselves from what we do, who we are and what we do. The gap really begins to lengthen and really begins to divide us. And we we begin to wonder day in and day out, why am I doing this right? Why am I putting so much time, energy, and effort into this?
• 6:44
  And then ultimately when we when we are successful, right? The idea of quiet burnout being, you see the high performance, you see the deadlines being hit. You see all the markers of, hey, I'm still a performer. It doesn't mean the same as it used to, right? You look at it, it's like an who cares? So what? So it's really when we talk about this idea of quiet burnout, it's all the symptoms of burnout being the exhaustion, the cynicism and the reduced sense of accomplishment.
• 7:09
  But it's being hidden because you're still doing what you need to do. Yeah, yeah. And it almost makes you feel like you're self-doubt increase because, you know, you're you're like, oh, I, I am still achieving. I'm still hitting all those milestones, hitting those deadlines. I'm still producing, but I don't have that same enjoyment or that same drive that I did, you know, three months ago.
• 7:33
  and so that starts to I must play mind games on you. Am I burnt out or do I, am I just not in the right field, in the right position anymore? You start to almost question,
• 7:44
  your choices due to the fact that, you know, you are still accomplishing, but you don't have that same sense of accomplishment.
• 7:51
  yeah, it did. And we talk a lot about how we define burnout right now only from a symptomology perspective. But like where does it come from? Right. And we we borrowed this from the job demands resources theory. Where at its simplest, burnout occurs when demands outweigh resources over time. Right. So I love that you brought that up, Gabby, because, you know, we do sometimes play mind games where it's almost like, hey, I'm still getting I'm hitting all of these demands, right?
• 8:14
  I'm getting all of these demands done with. But you're debt, you're tapping into reserves. You don't have to get them done right. And that's where you go. Do I belong in this field anymore? Do I still have it right? Do I am I am I that guy? Am I that girl anymore? They can still be able to churn this out.
• 8:29
  Like if I fast forward six months, I don't know if I'm going to be able to do this to to sustain this as well. So
• 8:37
  it's a constant internal battle that you're dealing with over and over and over again.
• 8:42
  Yeah. And I think it it's pretty clear through what you were just saying, like how this impacts the individual dealing with this quiet burnout.
• 8:50
  But I think, you know, what would be interesting is for us to go into like, why do we hide it? Why do we feel this guilt or sense of shame,
• 8:59
  for feeling burnt out for I mean, at the end of the day, it's what you said. I don't have the resources long term to sustain these stressors.
• 9:13
  and so what is it really that interferes with us acknowledging that or accepting that?
• 9:19
  I mean, I think the the simplest answer is identity, right? When we talk about who we are and what we do, when we put such significant hours of every week, of every month of every year into our work, into taking pride in what we do, it really does become a part of who we are. Think about how you introduce yourself, right?
• 9:41
  Like, hey, like, oh, like, how do you introduce yourself? It's what I do, right? I'm my performance consultant. That amp was right. But when you start to feel the quiet burnout of that, and that's really when the mind games begin to take over and the doubts begin to creep in, it's like, oh, like if this is at my core, who I am now, right where my identity and what I do are in lockstep with one another, I'm not only thinking about how I might be falling short as a performance consultant, but if it's so embedded into who I am, I'm thinking about how I'm falling short as a human.
• 10:14
  I'm thinking about how I'm falling short in terms of the people that I'm trying to provide for, both personally and professionally. So when we feel like we're slowing down, when we feel like we don't have it anymore, who are we? Right? And we falling short of our own expectation and definition of being a successful human. And that raises the question, though, like what is your definition of being a successful human?
• 10:38
  And a lot of this stems from unhealthy definitions of success. We talk about this all the time in terms of, you know, if your definition of success is based on outcomes, based on the things you can't control, you're oftentimes going to be left sorely disappointed,
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  and feeling unsuccessful. And so really getting clear on what is my definition of success,
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  how does my definition of success differ from my identity as an individual?
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  Right.
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  That's the important piece there.
• 11:12
  Something else I'll, I'll bring up in regards to like, you know, why we hide it? I mean, social norms, right? Like, we praise all the time that the high achievers, the people with, the highest motivational drive,
• 11:26
  and it almost makes it create this, environment where if you fake it, where even if you are feeling burnt out, I'm going to show up with energy, enthusiasm, and I'm going to be the one knocking out the tasks on the to do list.
• 11:42
  Because that's what looks good, right? That's that's the person who gets the promotion. That's the person who gets the raise or, you know, gets the praises. And so I'm going to sacrifice my recovery and pretend that I have resources I don't have in order to look good.
• 12:03
  again, like, going back to that identity piece like, hey, I am reliable, right?
• 12:09
  Like, I am someone who can be relied on to get things done at a very high clip with, at a very high standard as well. And then when your energies are running on fumes, when the reserves are running on fumes, you're like, oh, like, I'll have another two cups of espresso. Right? I'll have another cup of coffee and another bang, another monster.
• 12:29
  Whatever. Whatever the caffeine you're trying to cope with, so to speak. Right? Whatever energy you're trying to just get after, because you're so depleted. Because you're so exhausted. Right? So especially when we when we have this identity piece, not just of what you do, but the standard that you hold yourself to. Right? It becomes this, this feedback loop of, okay, I need to keep I need to keep finding ways, especially when success becomes further and further out of reach.
• 12:55
  I need to keep finding ways to close that gap regardless of my resources, regardless of where my energy that because there's a fear that comes with that, like, oh, like of admitting struggle, of admitting trust or thinking that, hey, like, I might not be seen as reliable. And that can have implications for how my supervisor or a boss sees me.
• 13:16
  That could have implications for how my coworkers see me. That can have implications for how my direct reports see me as well. So it's, it really is this, this balancing and juggling act that we that we go through internally to go, okay, it's either I dig into reserves I don't have or else and that can be a dangerous game.
• 13:34
  Yeah. And just to reiterate how prominent this is for the listeners, that same, study that you were referencing earlier also reported that 43% of workers are worried about telling their employers, telling their bosses, telling their teams about their mental health struggles or about their, you know, lack of reserves, because they're worried it will negatively impact their.
• 14:02
  Yep, yeah, progression at work or negatively affect them at work.
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  And that disclosing those concerns now diminishes them as an individual or diminishes their potential. And, and so 43% when we look at that, that's amongst one and two people. Right. Like that would be one of the two of us basically like we're sitting here scared, to go and tell our, our teams or a boss that we're dealing with something like this and so the majority of people experience this at some point in their life and are worried of bringing it to the surface.
• 14:39
  I think it's so important that we, we even look at all the numbers associated with burnout. Right? I think just anywhere across certain fields, it does really hover on that 4,050% mark. Right. Basically industry agnostic, job agnostic as well. And especially going back to how we were talking about our definitions of success. Right. And the dangerous game that can come with how we define success, and especially when we keep kicking it and moving the goalposts further and further away, because ultimately, what what this is getting at is there's almost a level of perfectionism being the standard, right, where any mistake, any shortcoming, any missed deadline just significantly, significantly impacts our identity in
• 15:23
  a negative way. Right. And we see a relationship between perfectionism and burnout, right. So there's a study back in 2016, a meta analysis that looked across 43 different studies, and it showed
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  perfectionistic concerns, had medium to large positive associations with overall burnout. And we can see how that makes sense, right? We can see, okay, even if my demands consistently outweigh my resources because of my identity, because I so heavily identify with what I do and the standard I hold myself to, well, those resources are going to have to wait, right?
• 15:56
  Those resources of time, energy, attention, right? Everything that you either use to meet those demands or to cope with those demands, those are just going right into the fire, right? Those are just going right. So are being, burned fuel source to where you can try to keep up and keep the word try. They are carrying a lot of water with the perfect the perfect standard that you're holding yourself to.
• 16:18
  Yeah. Yeah. And and so it's like, okay, well what do we do about this.
• 16:23
  and really interesting like is this pressure that I'm feeling helping me do good work or am I succeeding in spite of that pressure? Right. And that pressure is just, a threat to me.
• 16:35
  you know, kind of to close this section out, I think really the the hit home message here, it's like, the better you are at hiding those symptoms of burnout,
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  the more likely it is that your burnout is only going to continue to grow.
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  And you're going to be in a much worse spot. So I think you know, learning to lean on support systems, recognizing what are the signs of quiet burnout. So I even know that I'm experiencing it,
• 17:03
  will be a helpful tool for for our listeners.
• 17:07
  back when I was a contractor working with the Army, there was an old adage, right?
• 17:12
  And especially the way you said that, Gabby, the better you are at hiding your burnout, the longer no one helps, the longer no one becomes aware of it even further. Because you're doing well, because you are hitting the performance markers, you should be hitting well. Other individuals see that as well. Of course, Gabby can take on more. She's killing everything else that she's doing.
• 17:29
  Why not? Right. And there is an adage that really stuck with me like, hey, if you're good at work, guess what? You get more of it, right? Because you're you become the wheelhouse. You become the person that go to girl or guy that's like, hey, I know I can rely on this person not only get this work done, but also hold it to a high standard.
• 17:47
  Right? So the demands just keep unfortunately, flooding and flooding and flooding time and time again, because you are demonstrating competence, you are demonstrating that quality. Right. And then as you were saying, Gabby, some of the the warning signs. Right. If you if you look at your car and you see some of the indicators on your dashboard, like, oh, there's a big exclamation point in a triangle, what's going on there?
• 18:08
  Right? I think the number one thing or one of the number one things we see is really just joyless achievement, joyless achievement, where you're getting all these things done and all these new things that are being thrown at you. You're also finding ways to get them done. But when you check that box or when you have that trophy, so to speak, in hand, it doesn't feel like anything.
• 18:31
  It almost is. You feel numb or apathetic to it?
• 18:35
  yeah. It's, we always go back to a hydraulic treadmill, right? Like, the more you accomplish, the the higher the highs. Unfortunately. Also the lower the lows. Right. Like with that high, it's going to come back down. And, it's kind of this constant cycle. And so you know, if you're constantly striving for more pushing that goalpost and not recognizing or able to, recognize your achievements along the way, it does lead to this sense of joyless achievement.
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  So if you're feeling that that is like you've had one of those indicators or warning light,
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  that you might be trending down the path of, of quiet burnout. Another is,
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  irritability, right? Growing cynicism and irritability. If you find yourself getting easily irritated,
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  at work by little things,
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  that usually wouldn't faze you. It could be those team things or an email that you feel is asking a question that you don't think needed to be asked of you.
• 19:39
  being pulled into meetings that you feel like could have happened without you. All of these situations, very normal. They happen all the time. Usually shouldn't elicit too much of a response. But if you're getting very irritated by these inconveniences throughout the day, that is also an indicator that quiet burnout could be on the rise.
• 20:03
  And it almost, almost becomes this mentality. I don't want to say a victim mentality here, but it runs adjacent to that victim mentality where it does feel like everyone and everything in that work environment is out to get you. It's right to isolate you, is out to give you more things to do, to accomplish. And from the outside looking in, it's like, oh, Gabby's doing a great job right?
• 20:23
  And of course I'm going to give her more. But from Inside Out is I don't care about this anymore, right? I don't I don't have the bandwidth for this. I don't have the passion for this anymore as well too. So some of those warning signs, some of those warning lights, if you will, and then because of that irritability, because of that lack of bandwidth, we typically also see withdrawal.
• 20:44
  Right. You begin to see some of the isolation where you're still you're doing the task right. But the connection, the passion, the belonging, the relatedness, it's a void at that point. Right? It is merely a check the box kind of activity. So people just get off my back and then ultimately, hopefully, right, I can get through the day, into my day and not be thinking or doing the work.
• 21:08
  What you said there is really at the core of it that mentality of I'm just trying to get through it rather than actually doing good work. It becomes about I'm just trying to get through it and on to the next task and get as many of the tests completed as I can. And that directly ties back to that sense of fulfillment, sense of achievement.
• 21:30
  Like if you're just doing it to mark it off the list, what investment do you really have in that?
• 21:35
  naturally, yeah, you're going to feel like this doesn't matter and then inherently withdrawal.
• 21:42
  Yeah.
• 21:42
  All right, so one of the final tales of quiet burnout is your physical health, right?
• 21:48
  And we talk a lot about the connection between mind and body and how the body keeps score. Right. So when your physical health starts to decline, that is a clear indicator that burnout may be on the rise as well. And some of the things to be on the lookout for your sleep patterns. Are you waking up in the middle of the night more times than normal?
• 22:13
  we all, most of us, not all of us, wear some form of tracking device, whether that's a smartwatch or a Woohp or something. And we can track like our RV I know for me when my hrb goes out of whack there's something indicating that my stress is probably higher than normal. And if it stays elevated like that for instance probably an indicator that I'm not coping with the resources.
• 22:37
  focus is another area here. When you're unable to maintain your focus for the same amount of time that you, typically are, and then even just your energy eroding throughout the day, like you're at lunch and all of a sudden you're feeling like, how the heck am I going to make it through the rest of the day?
• 22:56
  I'm exhausted.
• 22:57
  And so that quick energy depletion, you know, lack and concentration or focus diminishing and then sleep as well, being one of those clear tells that maybe burnout is building.
• 23:12
  we can take all of those. Right. The joyless achievement, the growing cynicism and irritability, the the withdrawal, the physical tells.
• 23:19
  Right? Whether it's sleep, focus or energy, they all compound and they all begin to almost contribute to this narrative that you're telling yourself that is it ever going to be enough? Right? Is it ever going to feel like it's enough? And that's where we see some of the imposter syndrome. That's where we see some of the more toxic sides of perfectionism.
• 23:39
  Right. And when we see this stress related emotional exhaustion, right. One of the core core symptoms of burnout, we see that in about 31% of workers, and there's a desire to keep it to themselves in 25% of those individuals. And then with those individuals with emotional exhaustion, 19% feel an effective 20% report lower productivity
• 24:02
  So we see holistically how this affects us from an emotional perspective, from a withdrawal perspective, but as well as from a performance perspective
• 24:10
  the consistent emotional and social strain of having those demands outweigh resources chronically over time, but also keeping it to ourselves.
• 24:22
  Also not letting anybody into the try to lean on and help us.
• 24:26
  yeah. And so what we're asking our listeners to do is you you kind of have to look past the results. You have to look past your performance metrics,
• 24:34
  and watch and be aware of how you're actually feeling when you're completing your task or going about your day like that.
• 24:44
  Awareness is really going to be at the core of recognizing and doing something about quiet burnout.
• 24:52
  Because, again, those results are still going to be showing your performance metrics. You're still hitting them now it's more about how does it feel emotionally, physically, cognitively to hit those marks.
• 25:04
  Yeah. And I think on the on the other side of this.
• 25:06
  Right. Maybe, maybe hopefully you're not dealing with quiet burnout. But if you lead a team or you work with other individuals, you can ask questions about, hey, like where's your energy? Like lately? Like, all right. Like, tell me about your your why for doing this position, for doing this role. Right. For doing this job. Has it changed? Right.
• 25:24
  How effective do you feel. Right. It's it's easy to look at KPIs. You look at performance metrics and go off. Gabby's killing it. There's no doubt in my mind that she feels great. She's ready to take on even more. But if we make those assumptions and we only look at those performance metrics without looking at the human behind those performance metrics, it can be costly in the long run.
• 25:48
  I'm glad you brought that up, because there is you know, the leadership side of this is how do I normalize this experience and and kept the quiet burnout on my team,
• 25:59
  within my people. And and to your point, you've got to ask questions, you know, gauge their energy, gauge their motivation, their interest,
• 26:08
  their sense of satisfaction with, with their role.
• 26:11
  And and so there's a, role within the team of the leader to bring this to the forefront. And like you said, when we don't there are a lot of cost associated with it because as we've mentioned today, that quiet burnout compounds over time and eventually will lead to performance decrements if it goes unaddressed and, you know, there's, a great Gallup analysis back from 2018 on this.
• 26:36
  So I'm sure the numbers have shifted and some capacity if we were to reassess. But this this analysis looked at 7500 full time employees and saw that,
• 26:47
  they were all experiencing burnout to some degree. And of those individuals, 63% of them. So almost, you know, two thirds, in a sense, were more likely to take a sick day,
• 27:00
  take time off work.
• 27:01
  And 2.6 times as likely to be actively seeking another job. But that's it for a minute. Like, if you're not assessing the quiet burnout over time, it's compounding for the individual. They're starting to like I said at the beginning of today about themselves, is this the right place for me? Am I doing the right job, or do I need to start looking elsewhere?
• 27:27
  And if I don't feel well, I'm just not going to go. I'm not motivated. I'm not driven. I'm just going to call in sick today. Yeah, like that has drastic impacts at the organizational level.
• 27:38
  And it really can from an outside perspective seem like it comes out of nowhere. Right. Like oh like this person is missing a little bit more time or now they're, we're getting a resignation notice.
• 27:49
  And like what? Where did this come from? Like, where did this come? Like, why are people leaving? Why is turnover becoming such an issue? Whether it be within my team, whether it be, you know, within a broader organization as well, and you really just see almost beneath the surface this depletion, just taking it out of people over and over and over again to where the answer that they come to in their mind is maybe it's different elsewhere, right.
• 28:14
  Maybe it in another organization, I'll refind that passion, that fire that I once had. And I'll also feel like I'm more connected to the broader mission and purpose of this other organization or what, whatever I'm trying to do within my role. Right. So absolutely mean when you talk about that idea of why this is so costly from an organizational perspective, it really does get at this idea of almost quiet quitting.
• 28:40
  But quiet burnout leaving to actual quitting.
• 28:43
  I like the way you phrase that the quiet quitting of, you know, from the employer's perspective, it it really is coming out of left field because they've been performing great for you. Right. Like you're you've been adding to their plate. You've been giving them more to take on because they're hitting all their deadlines or having great outcomes.
• 29:00
  And then all of a sudden they're like, I think, I think I'm going somewhere else. And you're left wondering what the heck happened. A lot of the research shows that I could have been this quiet burnout. Underlying that.
• 29:13
  So, Gabby, and especially with your your dissertation and your PhD, really in the mental recovery and mental rest domain.
• 29:21
  What do we what do we do about this? Right. We know that it impacts such a significant amount of people across the United States workforce, even globally. Right. What do we what do we do? How do we actually take action for this? Yeah. Well, I mean, we've we've kind of touched on the first step, which is just bringing awareness to what you are experiencing, being able to name the fact that I'm performing and I'm not.
• 29:44
  Okay, right. Like I'm performing and it's hard. Yeah, I'm performing and it's taking a toll on me.
• 29:53
  That recognition of, yes, I've got the outcomes, but I'm depleted.
• 29:59
  once you've brought awareness to that and recognize that it's happening, now comes the recovery component, which is, you know, where I spent so much of my research is, okay, well, what does that recovery actually need to look like?
• 30:13
  You've got to build in the rest routines that work for you. What what fills your cup. And you'd be amazed at the amount of times I sat across from a client and asked them, you know.
• 30:28
  What fills your cup? What do you enjoy doing? And they look at me blank face and they don't know. And so in order to restore your resources, you have to know how to do that. How do you recharge? Is it by getting out in nature? Is it by, you know, having some time to sit down and read your favorite book or binge watch a show on Netflix,
• 30:52
  be around friends or family?
• 30:54
  Like, what is it that fills your cup and, and build in a routine that incorporates those opportunities for recovery?
• 31:02
  with the recovery. But I love how you brought up the separation of, performing. But I'm not. Okay. Right. Because I feel like especially with how societally we view work and we view our performance.
• 31:16
  Right. It's so connected with who we are. And it is such an intentional separation that occurs there with, hey, like, how do I define if I'm doing okay? Right. Is it because I'm hitting all my KPIs? Is it because I'm hitting all of the deadlines and all of these tasks and I'm checking every box? Or is it I'm sleeping appropriately, I feel energized, I feel like I can focus and sustain effort for a long period of times.
• 31:43
  Right? Those are two very different things, but it's a lot easier for us to go well, according to my company, my organization. Right. I'm okay. Right? I'm doing all the things I need to do to continue developing, to continue growing within this role.
• 31:57
  as well, right with as on top of the recovery, right. The rest the detachment,
• 32:02
  there is a need to really take a hard look in the mirror and ask yourself, where is the meaning in this?
• 32:06
  Right when I when I'm doing what I'm doing and maybe it has changed since you started. Maybe that why I really has changed, but trying to find ways to relink and reconnect to hey, why does this work matter to me? What are the outcomes or values associated with it that I hold near and dear to me at present?
• 32:27
  and that piece is so important because we know that aligning what you do with your values and feeling that link between the two is crucial for a sustained success. And when that drift starts to happen, it becomes really hard to stay motivated. So taking the time to remind yourself of why? Why am I doing this? What is the meaning behind my work?
• 32:50
  What is the purpose and how do I contribute to that? That's the key is understanding that you are an individual contributor to some greater sense of meaning and purpose. And and when we think about high performing teams, high performing individuals, that it's essential to be there. So spending that time, is that a great add on to the recovery component?
• 33:13
  And then kind of the final piece of advice we have is when possible, because we recognize it's not always possible, but when possible, find ways to reduce the load. And, and this isn't, you know, just setting off your computer and saying, hey, I can't handle anymore. It's who can I delegate to? What can I, you know, save for later so that it doesn't feel like it?
• 33:39
  It's urgent. It needs to be done now. Like that ability to reduce the load on yourself,
• 33:45
  through leaning on others. And. And sometimes that doesn't mean saying no, but we recognize that, you know, depending on what profession you're in or if you're a parent or, you know, whatever that looks like, there are times where you can't say, no, you can't reduce the load.
• 34:00
  So when you're not able to reduce the load, focusing on the recovery and,
• 34:04
  reigniting that passion for what you do.
• 34:07
  for the individuals feeling this quiet burnout. Right. Name it. Get to your recovery techniques and mechanisms. Get to your back. Get back to the why behind why you do things and find if you can find ways to reduce that load
• 34:21
  from a leadership perspective.
• 34:23
  Right. Don't only focus on the struggling individuals, right. Because a lot of the quiet burnout is really going to be with the people that you feel are your studies performers. Right. And it shows. And Gallup study, really, if individuals felt like they were strongly supported by their manager, they were 70% less likely to experience burnout regularly, 70% less likely.
• 34:46
  Right? Like so like we talk about, hey, how do we move the needle on this? Whether it's about turnover, whether it's about productivity, whether it's about sustained performance from your individuals, that 70% figure really gets into how well a manager engages and supports their people and all of their people, not just the struggling ones. Yeah, it is because that is oftentimes what happens where, you know, our high performers, we're like, okay, we can count on you.
• 35:16
  I don't need to give you as much support. I've got to go over here and deal with, you know, Susie, who is my low performing team member, and I got to get her up. I got to put her, you know, on a pep or whatever and get her, you know, some training. But you I can just trust to handle it.
• 35:34
  But if you were to receive that same support that same,
• 35:38
  level of guidance and, and check in, it can have a great impact. So that 70% is, is a very large number. And, just speaks to how important leadership is on the team.
• 35:52
  So I appreciate you bringing that to the forefront. And, you know, as we bring this to a close, Anthony just want to again, normalize how prevalent this is.
• 36:04
  We've talked about the numbers, but at the end of the day, it's something that most individuals will experience at some point in their life, regardless of domain.
• 36:13
  Across athletics, across academics, across professions.
• 36:17
  it's a phenomenon. And so we just want our, our listeners to be in-tune with how to catch it and, and what to do about it.
• 36:27
  the reflection homework for you all listening is if your results look fine, when did you last check how you actually felt? Right? Don't wait for the output to drop to admit you're running on fumes.
• 36:41
  It's a great way to close it out that that self reflection point of how do I actually feel when things are going well,
• 36:48
  if you haven't asked yourself that lately, ask yourself now and reflect on it a little bit.
• 36:53
  Thank you all for tuning into this episode. We appreciate you, listening and and, yeah, hope that you find it relevant and able to be applied in your day to day lives to help you. Like Anthony said at the beginning, pursue better and and be better for yourself and for those around you. So thank you. And we look forward to having you tuned into the next episode.