Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / Why Most People Don't Regret Divorce

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Why Most People Don't Regret Divorce · The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten

• 0:05
  Hi, everybody, and welcome to the Doctor's Psych Mom show.
• 0:08
  Today we're going to talk about why I don't see most people in
• 0:11
  my practice regretting divorce. Nor do I see that you know in
• 0:16
  general in my life. And why?
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  Because this is a common. Thing on the Internet to say
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  like women are going to really regret it when the guy leaves
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  because they don't have sex with him or men are really going to
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  regret it if they're not nicer to their spouses and so
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  therefore they get divorced, they're really going to regret
• 0:35
  it. And this kind of really does not
• 0:38
  dovetail with anything that I see and I'll talk about why.
• 0:41
  First, please do subscribe. My most recent subscriber
• 0:44
  episode was on the Myth. You know, I like to dispel myths
• 0:48
  that people used to prioritize their marriages more in prior
• 0:52
  generations. And I will talk about the larger
• 0:55
  sociological reasons that that is not the case anyway.
• 1:00
  So moving forward, if I haven't already made you subscribe, then
• 1:07
  maybe I'll get a couple people today who subscribe.
• 1:09
  But I feel like getting to the meat of the episode is the best
• 1:13
  way to encourage you to subscribe, because if you like
• 1:16
  what I talk about, then you're going to want to hear 137 more
• 1:20
  episodes. All right, So when I post about
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  anything really on the Internet, some people say, oh, like women
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  are going to regret it. You know, like if if they don't
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  sleep with the guy enough and he leaves them, or if you know, the
• 1:37
  man doesn't clean up the house or doesn't take her seriously,
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  he's going to regret it when they divorce.
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  So do I actually see people who regret divorce?
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  I see people who definitely regret marrying that person, and
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  I see people who deeply regret the pain that the divorce caused
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  their children. There are, of course, 6% of
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  people who remarry the same person that they divorced.
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  And while I've not worked with one of those people, I have
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  worked with people who have been separated for a while and then
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  remarry or not remarry. Sorry, then reconcile.
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  And I think that must be somewhat similar.
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  Those people kind of were, had some sort of a, a, an epiphany
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  really that that they really did want to be with this specific
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  person. And then they did a lot of work
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  internally and with the partner to get back to a place where
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  they could get together again. It was almost like a breakup.
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  Like they never fully knew that. They never fully identified a
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  single people. They were just very angry and
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  hurt. Possibly there's infidelity,
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  addiction. There's a reason It's almost
• 2:44
  like a break, like taking a break.
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  And so So those people certainly regret the divorce, I guess.
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  Although whenever I've talked to one of those people, again, I've
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  not had those people as clients. But when I've talked to them on
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  the Internet, they, you know, seem to think that it was an
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  inflection point, the divorce, that made them really realize
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  what was important to them. So they don't necessarily regret
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  it, although of course they always regret the pain that it
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  causes their kids. So in reality, why don't women,
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  let's go to women first. Women are more often the
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  initiators of divorce. So why don't they regret then
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  the divorce? Well, because they are the one
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  who fell out of love with the guy, right?
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  So it's hard, it's hard to regret something when you kind
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  of didn't feel happy about it and you didn't really feel in
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  love with the person for a very long time anyway, right?
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  And that's the other thing is most people get divorced after a
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  lot of self reflection. This is not like an easy
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  decision therapy and talking to friends and thinking how you
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  could make it work and you know, can we just like kind of Co
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  parent. And so like you're trying to
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  deal with what feels like an increasingly impossible
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  situation where somebody just does not meet your needs at all
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  and you know your emotional needs generally.
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  Although women in sexless marriages also divorce because
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  of that, just as men do. And the sex and the emotion are
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  all tied up together as I discuss constantly.
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  So when somebody's not been meeting your needs for a very
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  long time, then and you feel like you're growing away from
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  them and growing past them, which is the most common reason
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  for divorce given by both genders as we grew apart, then
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  you're not exactly regretting not being with that person
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  anymore because you really didn't like being with that
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  person at all. Is was extremely frustrating and
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  and difficult to be with that person and to pretend that
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  things were OK or to start initiating these conversations
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  where you could like resolve something but then nothing ever
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  got resolved, etcetera, etcetera.
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  So yeah, like it's you're not going to regret something that
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  ended a thing that was very uncomfortable and bad.
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  And on the other side, you know if you are the partner that was.
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  Left by somebody, then yes, you may regret like not changing or
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  what have you, but you only seem to regret that until you get
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  back out on the dating market. Because if you've been left,
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  then that person didn't want to be with you for a good long time
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  and bat. And when you meet a new person
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  or even when you just identify a single and start meeting people
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  in general, it's can be very transformative and ego
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  gratifying for somebody to, you know who thought that they were
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  like the worst thing in the world according to their spouse.
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  To see how everybody doesn't react like that to them.
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  And they find other people that like that.
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  And that is usually transformative in their self
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  esteem because to be in an unhappy marriage, one where
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  somebody is going to initiate divorce and leave you, you know
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  they've not liked you for a good long time and that could because
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  of things you do, it could be because you're just different
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  people, could be for a million reasons, but it's not, you know,
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  it's not negligible to be living with somebody that doesn't like
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  you. So when people move on and they
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  do pretty quickly, you know, generally, especially guys date
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  and remarry quicker, then you know, it's again, like most
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  people seem to think. How did I stay in the marriage
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  for the as long as I did? And I talk about this in my
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  podcast on how divorce changes your yourself concept and it
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  makes you engage in the world in different ways and feel more
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  open and free about various things because you've already
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  made a mistake. You know your quote, mistake UN
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  quote, you know, in the eyes of the world.
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  So that is to say that I don't see a lot of people who regret
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  divorce by the time that it's gotten to a divorce.
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  Now, another reason that I don't see people regret divorce,
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  particularly the people that I work with, is that such people,
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  if they've come into therapy after divorce, were likely
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  likelier to be the people who went to therapy before divorce.
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  And if you've gone to couples counseling, or, you know, if you
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  have also gone to individual counseling, or if you've gone to
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  a marriage retreat, or if you've read marriage books and this is
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  lots and lots of people now, every time I add something in
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  the, you know, the the circle gets bigger and bigger if you
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  have spent a lot of time trying to make your marriage better,
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  whether that's through working on yourself, working with them
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  in couples counseling, working on yourself in therapy again,
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  marriage retreat, talking to your pastor.
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  Joining a men's group? Joining.
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  You know, a support group for Al Anon.
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  If your partner is an addict, Whatever the case may be, you
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  have already put in so much effort that it is kind of hard
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  to ever really feel as bad about leaving as you would if you had
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  not put in that effort right? And since so many people
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  nowadays. Are open to therapy, and they
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  are open to working on themselves in ways that prior
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  generations weren't because therapy was more stigmatized
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  then frequently people really do get to a place of acceptance,
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  and that reminds me of another podcast.
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  I said Divorce When You're Not Angry, but accept It.
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  Maybe that was a post either way.
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  You you can regret that all of it happened.
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  You know that you ended up with somebody and it didn't work out
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  and of course that your kids are hurt or that you know, your
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  partner maybe feels hurt or whatever and and that you are
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  maybe in worse financial straits or in you know.
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  Doing things that you wouldn't otherwise have to do.
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  Working harder or parenting solo or what have you.
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  But the more effort that you put in to work on your marriage,
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  then the more that you know you realize that you did everything
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  that you could. And This is why it's so
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  essential for the people that are listening.
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  To this that aren't divorced. To really, really work on their
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  marriage. Because you don't ever want to
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  be in a place where you get divorced and and then you do
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  become somebody who regrets it because you realize you didn't
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  really work on it. You didn't.
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  Really. Really.
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  Really try to change now. I have seen people that say that
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  they wish that they would have listened to their then wife or
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  their husband then husband when that person gave them feedback
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  because that dogs them, that problem dogs them and their
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  current relationship as well. So particularly I see this in
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  men who come in and. You know, they say like my new
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  wife thinks that I'm selfish or that I'm a workaholic and I'm
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  coming in because this is something that my ex-wife used
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  to say. So basically they're saying I
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  wish I would have worked on it. Then irrespective that I wish, I
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  do not wish I was with my ex-wife anymore because there's
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  very few people that are remarried that wish that they
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  were with their prior partner. I mean that's.
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  You know, you end up getting somebody who's a better match
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  for you because it's somebody who's dating you and marrying
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  you now when you're the person you are now.
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  Whereas the ex was the person that was with you from like, you
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  know, 1020 years before you are who you are now, right?
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  So it's obviously going to be a better fit, although it isn't
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  usually the the. You know, the parent of your
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  biological children. You can have more biological
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  children, obviously, but the the.
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  Point is, is that you're usually getting a more compatible
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  partner with your current self. When you're picking them as your
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  current self, that should be fairly obvious.
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  But anyway, they don't want to replicate the same mistakes.
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  And then when they realize that they are, they wish that they
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  had worked on those things then. So that's another reason, by the
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  way, to work on yourself, even if you don't think that you're
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  going to remain in your marriage you do not want.
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  To replicate the same mistakes and therefore cause another
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  subsequent marriage to dissolve. You know with somebody who is in
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  fact a better fit for you, but you still have the same problems
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  that you didn't work on people. Very much regret acting certain
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  ways in their prior marriage, right?
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  And and with their children and with spouses.
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  People regret all sorts of their behaviors.
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  And I'm sure, I'm sure there are people who regret divorce.
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  I just don't see them. I don't see very many of them,
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  certainly. And of the people that I do see
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  that that discuss regret, it's usually global regret kind of
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  like and I've said. This before in a different
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  podcast. But men say that they regret
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  ever marrying the woman and ever having kids with her.
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  And women don't say that because women get kind of superstitious
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  and are like, well, then I wouldn't have those exact
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  children. And then men say who are more,
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  you know, fact based about this, they say, but I wouldn't know.
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  I didn't have those specific children.
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  Yes, obviously, you know, if we were, that's obviously correct.
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  If you had a time machine, like you wouldn't know your specific
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  children. But it just seems interestingly
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  or at least humorously enough to me, it seems that women are more
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  superstitious about this, myself included, you know, saying.
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  But I wouldn't have these specific children, you know.
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  So it's all better, you know? It's all OK you know that I got
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  married and divorced because I had those specific children that
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  I love so much. So women say that more men go
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  back and say, yeah, but I wouldn't know those children.
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  I've heard that more from men. I've not ever heard that from a
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  woman. But anyway, the the point, the,
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  the point here is, is that yes, many people regret being the
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  sort of person who would get into that sort of relationship.
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  They regret their own contribution to whatever the
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  marital dynamic was. But once people are out of a bad
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  marriage, it is. Very rare for them to wish that
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  they were back in that marriage. Especially once you start
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  dating, and again, dating people that are more compatible with
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  your current iteration of who you are, you know it's it's.
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  It's crazy. I mean, guys, tell me, you know,
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  my wife didn't touch me in 20 years, and I've gotten laid more
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  like, you know, this month than I did in the entirety of my, or
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  at least in the last 10 years of my marriage, Or if not, the
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  entirety of it. And women are dating guys who
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  are more emotionally available and actually, like, want to be
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  going out on a date. There's a lot of women who are.
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  Begging their husbands to go out on date night for like decades.
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  Guy wouldn't even go out. He was just.
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  Wanted to sit at home and then that is what it is to date you
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  date. So, like, they're going on more
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  dinner dates, you know, that they did in their entire
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  marriage. So women get more romance, men
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  get more sex, women get more sex, men get more romance.
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  Everybody's getting more of everything when you're out on
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  the dating market. And as I've said so, so many
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  times, it is insane to believe that people will not do well if
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  they want to on the dating market.
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  Any kind open minded person who genuinely wants to connect and
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  find somebody can. If you are close minded, if you
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  are anti the opposite gender, if you're very guarded, if you are
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  you know somebody who's not going to have sex for months and
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  months and months because you're terrified of of of it, you know,
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  then yeah, it's going to be harder for you.
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  But if you are a warm and inviting and affectionate and
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  loving and fun and open minded person.
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  You know, then it doesn't matter what you look like, 'cause
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  you're going to find somebody, And that is across across class,
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  across income, 'cause sometimes people say, Oh yes, but you work
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  with wealthy clients, you know, because of who you are.
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  And no, I didn't always used to work with wealthy clients, but
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  I'll tell you, single men do well and single women do well,
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  too. But it it's it's it's different,
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  you know in in different. Classes, different socio
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  economic statuses. It's different, obviously, But I
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  used to work, as I've said many times, at the Charleston,
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  Virginia. I used to work with the people
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  who take it. You know, I used to accept
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  insurance as part of a group practice.
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  Any guy who gets himself on the market, you know, is going to do
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  better in his 40s than he is in his 20s, just because he has a
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  career and some confidence the career gives.
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  You confidence and he's done things in the world and he's not
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  like you know. Just super, super anxious and.
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  Anxiety is obviously super big turn off to women and women do
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  well too. Yes, they it's harder to get
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  married again in, you know when when people don't have a lot of
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  money to go around. It's sometimes it is harder for
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  a woman with multiple children to find somebody because then in
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  theory. That man has, to quote,
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  financially support her and her children.
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  But really? I guess, you know, sort of, I
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  mean I have seen that more that people say that, you know when
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  they're struggling with money that people say that it's harder
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  to find somebody to date. Of course money lubricates
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  everything, makes everything easier.
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  But the reality is, is a kind loving person can find
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  eventually a partner, you know, and and that's just true.
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  And if you don't think that that's true, then that's a self
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  esteem issue. But unless you are close minded,
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  difficult person who will make dates terrible with you, you
• 15:43
  know, and that nobody will then want to date, then you know.
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  You can find somebody and SO once you do.
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  Find these people even just for an evening.
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  It's hard to think about ever going back to a marriage that
• 15:55
  was fairly dysfunctional, which is, again, what marriages are.
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  There are not people they're divorcing just because, you know
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  the wind blew the wrong way, despite what you would think
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  listening to angry men on the Internet.
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  You know, for, like, there's all these angry men on the Internet
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  that say that their wives left them for no reason, but they are
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  angry men on the Internet insulting women.
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  So I mean, like, come on. Like, this is not for no reason.
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  Like, if you're even remotely the guy that you're literally
• 16:22
  acting like, then there's a reason that she would have left,
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  which is because you're an angry, difficult person.
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  So people don't just get divorced for no reason because
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  it's extremely difficult, especially with children.
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  So anyway, this is reassuring you because so many people ask
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  me, and it was us, came up in my secret group, which of course
• 16:40
  you should all join whether or not people regret divorce.
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  And do people in fact just sit there alone, wishing they had
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  never got divorced, yearning for the guy who used to just, you
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  know, never clean up and sit around and watch a bunch of TV
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  and not go for dates and not really want to do much and not
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  know how to, you know? Really meet any of their
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  emotional needs. Do women yearn to be back with
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  this guy? No.
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  And that is how most women feel about the guy that they
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  divorced, by the way. That is how that that is a
• 17:13
  reason that women initiate divorces.
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  They feel very lonely and emotionally unfulfilled.
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  That's pretty much though, That's the big one, you know?
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  And they feel that the guy isn't really doing much.
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  He's kind of just passive. Sitting there and letting her
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  drive the entire relationship so women don't yearn for that guy
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  back. You know they really don't.
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  And men tend to leave women who are putting them into a sexless
• 17:37
  situation, refusing to sleep with them, touch them, be
• 17:40
  affectionate toward them, and or people who are very, very angry
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  or anxious. And guys, don't miss those women
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  either. So truth is, it's really fucking
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  hard to miss somebody that that with whom you got to a place in
• 17:54
  your relationship that you wanted to end it.
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  And I, I and I, in fact I say the exact opposite, have a lot
• 18:00
  of clients who bemoan the alimony that they have to give
• 18:05
  to their partner, not the child. Support, but the alimony in
• 18:08
  states where there's alimony, and this is men and women, cause
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  whoever the primary breadwinner is.
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  You know, may have to give alimony if that's what's decided
• 18:17
  and that's what the state says and what have you and and
• 18:22
  whenever people bemoan this, I say yes, but how much would you
• 18:25
  pay to in fact be divorced from this person?
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  And the answer is always it's priceless.
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  You know any amount of money to remain divorced if they could
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  just not pay that alimony but yet have to be plunged back into
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  that situation. Ain't nobody has has said Oh
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  yeah good idea. I wish I wish I had a time
• 18:41
  machine and I could just go back into that miserable marriage.
• 18:44
  Nobody says that so so so take that as you will and for what
• 18:51
  it's worth and I hope you guys found this to be interesting and
• 18:55
  I and. Please do join my secret group,
• 18:58
  my Facebook Groups only 499 a month Blue subscribe button on
• 19:02
  the Main Doctor Psych Mom Facebook page if you like
• 19:05
  talking about these topics from whence many of my podcasts
• 19:08
  emanate. All right.
• 19:10
  Talk to you all soon. Bye, bye.