Latest / The Soap Box Podcast / Exercise is political, with Donna Noble

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Exercise is political, with Donna Noble · The Soap Box Podcast

1:17
Peta: A couple of months ago, I read a New York times article.
1:21
Peta: Well, okay.
1:22
Peta: I read a New York times.
1:23
Peta: Headline when, what.
1:26
Peta: Uh, and then subscribe for a free account so I could read the whole thing.
1:31
Peta: It was about women.
1:33
Peta: An exercise.
1:35
Peta: Basically the author found.
1:38
Peta: That.
1:39
Peta: In one recent study of 400,000 Americans.
1:42
Peta: Only 33% of women met the weekly recommendations for aerobic exercise.
1:48
Peta: As opposed to 43% of men.
1:51
Peta: Um, and the author went on to talk about how that has a toll on women's health.
1:59
Peta: And I was indignant because I get indignant when they're injustices.
2:02
Peta: Thanks, ADHD.
2:04
Peta: Um, And also it kind of brought home to me, something that I've been mulling over for a while.
2:11
Peta: We talk a lot about politics on this pod.
2:14
Peta: And I am always at pains to explain that politics is not just about votes and how's the parliament and Congress and Senate and elections and all that jazz.
2:25
Peta: The politics is about everyday parts of our lives.
2:28
Peta: That everything is political in fact, which is why we should be paying attention.
2:33
Peta: And this article that popped up on my threads feed really drove home.
2:37
Peta: This idea that exercise is.
2:40
Peta: Political health is political access to.
2:45
Peta: Looking after our bodies is nowhere near as simple as the.
2:50
Peta: As the swathe.
2:52
Peta: Of health and wellness content that you will currently be waiting through.
2:56
Peta: As I record this on the 7th of January.
3:00
Peta: It's no where near as simple as all that content makes out.
3:03
Peta: It is not just about getting up at five 30 in the morning, especially if you are looking after a baby or a total or anybody who doesn't sleep.
3:12
Peta: It's not just about squeezing in run on your lunch break, especially if you have caring responsibilities, which are overwhelmingly, taken care of by women.
3:21
Peta: That you have to deal with on your lunch break.
3:23
Peta: It is not about just having better priorities because as women, we are socially conditioned to.
3:30
Peta: Put other people's priorities and other people's needs in front of our own.
3:35
Peta: Um, and then capitalism.
3:36
Peta: conditions us to.
3:38
Peta: Always be thinking about how, what we're doing is productive.
3:43
Peta: Exercises political.
3:44
Peta: And, um, so I jumped on LinkedIn and I shouted out to my network.
3:50
Peta: I said, look, who wants to come on the pod and talk about this with me?
3:53
Peta: Who knows someone who would be brilliant?
3:56
Peta: To talk about this idea that there's a political element to exercise.
4:00
Peta: And my lovely friend Shavon.
4:03
Peta: Put me in touch with today's guest, Donna Noble.
4:07
Peta: Donna is the inspiring founder of curves.
4:09
Peta: Some yoga.
4:10
Peta: And a leading advocate for body positivity and inclusivity in wellness.
4:14
Peta: Don has been a yoga teacher since 2011, teaching all over the UK, India and the us.
4:19
Peta: And she's known for her immersive yoga experiences.
4:22
Peta: Experiences that prove every body is a yoga body.
4:26
Peta: She's also the author of teaching body, positive yoga and wellbeing coach, and a public speaker with over 20 years of corporate experience.
4:33
Peta: So she has a pretty unique perspective on wellness for high achievers.
4:38
Peta: She's been featured in dazed magazine, the guardian women's health online, and a whole bunch of other places.
4:43
Peta: You need to go check her out on all the links to do so we'll be in the show notes.
4:48
Peta: But Donna's mission is to meet yoga and wellbeing, accessible, diverse, and meaningful for everyone.
4:54
Peta: She wants to.
4:56
Peta: try and get over that.
4:57
Peta: Gap that gender gap that's that race gap.
5:01
Peta: That affluence gap.
5:03
Peta: All things that we talk about in the podcast.
5:07
Peta: Because as Donna points out to me on the pod, There is a tiny percentage of black women who are doing The.
5:12
Peta: recommended amount of movement.
5:15
Peta: Exercise.
5:16
Peta: Is a race issue as well as agenda issue.
5:20
Peta: We talk about clothing and how that affects, who can access exercise.
5:24
Peta: We talk about.
5:26
Peta: We talked about this idea of the Protestant work ethic.
5:28
Peta: How everything is meant to be productive.
5:30
Peta: We talk about competition.
5:32
Peta: And we talk about how there's power in slowing down and in resisting this capitalistic idea.
5:37
Peta: That we should always be productive all the time.
5:41
Peta: I am sure that you will get a lot out of this conversation with Donna.
5:44
Peta: That you would learn about yoga that you learn about the barriers that exist, whether or not the ones that you experienced personally.
5:54
Peta: So sit back, grab a cup of coffee and listen to Donna.
5:57
Peta: Get on her soap box.
6:01
Peta: Donna, it is so nice to have you on the Soapbox podcast.
6:04
Peta: I'm really looking forward to having a chat.
6:06
Donna: Thank you for having me, Peter.
6:07
Donna: It's such a pleasure being here.
6:10
Peta: For people who don't already know you, who haven't come across you do you want to tell us a little bit about who you are, what you do, like what's brought you here?
6:20
Donna: Um, my name is Donna Noble.
6:21
Donna: I will caveat that and say that I'm not the Doctor Who character.
6:24
Donna: That's one thing I had to live with all my life.
6:26
Donna: Well, not all my life, but my latter adult life.
6:30
Donna: So I've just kind of got that.
6:31
Donna: Um, I have many, many roles and multi, multi talented, I think is, is, is the multi gifted, um, you know, believing that you don't have to have one role in life.
6:43
Donna: So basically, Worked in a corporate environment for 20 plus years, it was mainly redundant, and then at the time I was, um, doing a yoga teacher training course, but it was for something that I would do in the future.
6:56
Donna: It wasn't like a current thing.
6:58
Donna: Or future, uh, immediate role that I was going to be doing, but, um, I was remade with Dundon and then everyone kept saying, why don't you consider yoga?
7:04
Donna: And, um, and I thought, you know what, let me give this thing called yoga a go.
7:09
Donna: And that was back in, I think, 2020, 2011.
7:14
Donna: And I thought I'll give this thing called yoga a go.
7:17
Donna: So I was completing a teacher training course, I just said, and then hot yoga.
7:21
Donna: Was the, was the hot yoga at the time pun intended.
7:25
Donna: So I thought, you know what?
7:26
Donna: If I'm going to come back and teach, I will should be able to get a job because there weren't that many yoga teachers at the time.
7:32
Donna: So I went to LA for what should have been nine weeks.
7:34
Donna: I stayed for six months.
7:36
Donna: So this yoga started to, to, to take hold in, in, in that regard.
7:41
Donna: So yoga teacher, um, since becoming an author, I wrote my first book back in 2022 called teaching body for the yoga.
7:49
Donna: I'm a well being coach.
7:51
Donna: I write, I write for various magazines and I'm a disruptor, you know, I'm very much into diversity, equity and inclusion as well because I believe that yoga is for everybody.
8:00
Donna: So for, um, from seeing that there are certain groups of people missing or invisible from the yoga and well being spaces, what I've been doing since about 2012 is trying to make yoga more inclusive, more diverse and I created Curve Some Yoga to show that everybody is a yoga body.
8:18
Donna: I'm not sure what's ahead of me.
8:20
Donna: I know there's more and it's, and, and, and what I do does lighten me up.
8:24
Donna: So I don't think at any time soon, I'm going to change that.
8:27
Donna: It will grow and evolve in terms of what I offer and what I do as well.
8:33
Peta: Yeah, I've never met anybody as enthusiastic about yoga as as you, which is great.
8:37
Peta: It's lovely to, that kind of comes through the screen.
8:41
Peta: And so our mutual friend Siobhan, who has also been on the podcast, hooked us up because I was looking for someone to come and talk about, um, how, yeah, about exercise and about how that has political elements and kind of social justice elements to it.
8:54
Peta: So yeah, I'm very well, very happy that she did.
8:57
Peta: And so I ask all my guests on the podcast, um, what their soapboxes, what is the thing that keeps you like up?
9:05
Peta: what Is the thing that you find yourself in the corner at parties talking about until like two in the morning, or if you're not a night owl until nine o'clock at night, So Donna, what is your say?
9:16
Donna: I've thought about this yoga and diversity and inclusion very much.
9:19
Donna: So, you know, persuading people that yoga is for them, because unfortunately, I meet a lot of people that think yoga is something that it's not.
9:26
Donna: And, um, you Yeah.
9:28
Donna: So I'm there trying to convince everybody and that yoga is for them.
9:32
Donna: So it's a conversation I will never get bored of because yoga has transformed my life in so many ways.
9:38
Donna: And that's why I'm so passionate about it.
9:41
Donna: And it gives me so much pleasure and joy when I see someone that comes to you thinking, I can't do this.
9:48
Donna: And their body shows them.
9:51
Donna: their true potential of what they can do.
9:53
Donna: And it just, it just, it just makes me so happy.
9:55
Donna: So that's my soapbox.
9:59
Peta: Being in that yoga space, what are the roadblocks that you come across or that you did come across that said maybe that yoga wasn't for everybody as you feel that it should be?
10:10
Peta: Yes.
10:16
Donna: and it didn't really stop me because when I started yoga, it was so long ago that I didn't have any preconceptions about what yoga was.
10:23
Donna: Fortunately, social media and aging myself here wasn't very prominent as it is now.
10:29
Donna: So I, and the way I got into yoga, a friend of mine saw a picture of Madonna in a yoga, in a yoga pose.
10:35
Donna: And that's all I knew about yoga.
10:37
Donna: So let's give it a go.
10:37
Donna: And we did.
10:38
Donna: So in my beginning, I, it was very diverse in terms of the teachers that I encountered.
10:44
Donna: My first yoga teacher was a colleague and she was South Asian.
10:47
Donna: Then my next teacher, when I did a beginner's course was mixed heritage.
10:51
Donna: And then there were two yoga teachers that used to be based in Clapham who owned their own yoga studio.
10:56
Donna: So for me, it was like, I always saw people like me, even though I was in the minority.
11:00
Donna: But it was when I started to go to mainstream yoga studios that I began to see that maybe it wasn't as, um, inclusive.
11:08
Donna: So I began to see that curvy people were not very, Much in the yoga space and then it wasn't until I began to see that there weren't many people that look like me that were in the yoga space and it was when I'm, I was teaching at the, um, I think it was the Om Yoga show.
11:24
Donna: They, they had this international yoga day and they invited me to come along.
11:29
Donna: I think I've been interviewed for one of the magazines and then after my class, the very last class, and I rocked up and it was, you know, dreary British weather and I thought if I could go home, no, I would, I would.
11:39
Donna: And if anyone else is sensible like me, they'd be going home too.
11:43
Donna: But I had to hang around for the very last class.
11:46
Donna: And Peter, I was so surprised to see that there were so many women that looked like me that were there.
11:52
Donna: And at the end of the class, I remember my friend who was interviewing me said, Did you realize there were quite a few black women there?
11:57
Donna: And I said, Yes, but it didn't dawn on me the significance.
12:00
Donna: It was until they said to me, Donna, we've come to support you that, that me being a black woman, was equally as important because they came to support me.
12:10
Donna: But by me being visible, it would show them that black women or individuals did yoga too.
12:16
Donna: So thereafter I tried not to hide, I still hide, I try to be a bit more visible.
12:22
Donna: So if I encourage one more person to get on the yoga mat, then my job would be done.
12:26
Donna: But there were people with disabilities.
12:28
Donna: That we, we don't see the yoga space and that's still very much the, the case at the moment, the image of a yogi, someone, unfortunately, someone slim, blonde, young, able body, and in a, in a, in a, in a wonderful location, wearing, you know, expensive yoga clothes.
12:45
Donna: So all of these are barriers to people coming to yoga because they think they have to change themselves before they even get on the yoga mat.
12:52
Donna: They don't realize that flexibility potentially will be a by product of them starting a yoga journey.
12:57
Donna: But in the most.
12:59
Donna: important aspect of flexibility for me is flexibility of the mind, not the body.
13:04
Donna: Because when you can change your mindset, Peter, then you can take that into everyday life.
13:11
Donna: Like how yoga allowed me to see that I wasn't happy in my corporate job.
13:17
Donna: And it made me then connect with my body in a way that was never possible before.
13:22
Donna: It wasn't something I cultivated or tried to do, because I didn't know that you could do that.
13:27
Donna: And yoga gave me that, that, that, that gift to do so.
13:30
Donna: But by being able to do that, I began to realize and see that I wasn't in alignment with what I was meant to do or, um, in the job that I was doing.
13:40
Donna: So it gave me the courage to leave the corporate job, um, in the end and find, you know, something I'm passionate about and something that, um, I never thought I'd be doing and having the impact that, um, I would by doing something like this, because when I started Curvesome Yoga.
14:00
Donna: Which came about because I, there's a journalist called Deborah Coughlin, and she wrote an article in, I think it was the Guardian, and it's called fat girls do yoga too.
14:08
Donna: And I read that article, I was just so disheartened because was ignored by the yoga teachers when she shared her journey, but also stared at by other practitioners.
14:18
Donna: I thought, this is not yoga at all, yoga is connection, not only with yourself, but with others.
14:21
Donna: And I think I went around for a long time talking about this article, not realizing how profoundly it had impacted me until someone said, well, do something about it or shut up.
14:31
Donna: And I did something about it, fortunately, so I thought about, I wanted to create a name that individual would know that it was a different style of yoga or form of yoga, like body positive yoga.
14:42
Donna: And I loved curvy.
14:44
Donna: And I thought I'd Googled every permutation of the word curvy had gone, so I'd like curvy yoga or curvy girl or whatever.
14:51
Donna: Um, but my initial name for my brand was going to be wholesome yoga, but it sounds like bread, wholesome yoga.
14:58
Donna: Right.
14:59
Donna: So basically I had this inspired idea and put curve and then sum together and put curve sum together.
15:06
Donna: Cause I thought anyone could define curvy in their own unique and individual way and it wouldn't offend anybody with the name.
15:13
Donna: And that's, that's how it came back.
15:14
Donna: I had no clue whatsoever what I was doing, but just knew that what I was doing was needed.
15:20
Donna: And I hid for a long time until somebody said, You don't have to be gay to advocate gay rights, and that was it, because you're not curvy, you're not curvy, and it didn't matter, and that was back in 2010, I think, 2011, when you came out, and then, and since then I've been doing what I, I'm doing now, and I'm called a pioneer now because I'm doing something that's now trendy, but I was doing it before anyone else, before it became a trend.
15:45
Donna: So I've been doing it a long time.
15:46
Donna: And it really, um, touches my heart when someone acknowledges that and says, Donna, you were around a long time, you were doing this before it was trendy.
15:55
Donna: Because people know that I'm not in this for, for the trend, I'm in it for the local, and I'm in it to make change.
16:02
Donna: Change that everyone can have their birthright, which is access to health and well being.
16:08
Peta: And what impact has it made on like the people that you work with who didn't feel that they could access yoga and now have a place?
16:17
Donna: Um, some of them feel they're being seen, acknowledged for the first time because maybe when they're out in their everyday life, they're, they're trying to make themselves small because they don't want to draw attention to themselves.
16:28
Donna: So when they come to me, I say, number one, take up as much space as you like.
16:32
Donna: It's like, um, allowing them to trust me, but then to trust themselves in turn, but also for them to connect to their body.
16:40
Donna: And one of my students I love, she said that by working with me, she's given up the need for perfection in her life.
16:49
Donna: And when they understand that, there's so many benefits they get some, you know, get the mental clarity they need.
16:57
Donna: It changed their life.
16:58
Donna: They can get it.
16:59
Donna: I have a student said that, um, I will say you don't go so quickly in life because they're, they're ahead of me.
17:06
Donna: It's like they're trying to forecast what I'm going to do next.
17:08
Donna: I said, I'm doing this here and I'm guiding you.
17:11
Donna: What are you doing your everyday life that you're doing on autopilot, you know, come the only the moments guaranteed.
17:16
Donna: And when a student says to me, Donna, I don't run around like a headless chicken anymore.
17:21
Donna: So they're taking the skills.
17:22
Donna: I give them on the mat into their everyday life and they're changing their life and maybe doing something that they.
17:27
Donna: They're doing something they didn't think they can do, but seeing what they can do.
17:32
Donna: Beyond the mat.
17:33
Donna: For me, the real yoga is when you take it off the mat into your everyday life.
17:37
Donna: You know, how you can eliminate stress.
17:38
Donna: They're having stress free lives.
17:40
Donna: They're letting go the small things.
17:42
Donna: We, I talk about those things that, you know, driving in the car and someone cutting you up and you carry that with you all day.
17:50
Donna: Um, but let it go because that person's gone and gone.
17:53
Donna: They don't care about you, but you've given them right in your head.
17:56
Donna: And then your day can potentially get worse because everything then that happens to you goes back to that one incident.
18:02
Donna: So that's what they get.
18:04
Donna: And when they love their body, they realize that they are more than how their body looks.
18:11
Donna: A lot of my students find that it's what their body does for them.
18:14
Donna: Because we don't realize that all the time, all the wonderful things it does for us without even asking.
18:19
Donna: Like for me, Peter, I had Bell's palsy and that's why I think I became body positive.
18:23
Donna: I had it for about five years and it was dormant, didn't heal at all.
18:27
Donna: But through my yoga practice, I suppose by slowing down and, and, um, just, um, trying out holistic practices, my face began to heal.
18:37
Donna: So I began to realize the power of the body.
18:40
Donna: If you give the body what it needs, how the body can heal in an organic way.
18:43
Donna: Yeah.
18:45
Peta: That's really cool.
18:47
Peta: Um, and This conversation kind of came about because I saw an article so Daniel Friedman wrote a New York Times article that said a ridiculously small percentage of women are getting the amount of movement that they need to during the day or during the week.
19:02
Peta: Or during their lifetimes.
19:04
Peta: And, um, and she flagged up things like, well, she flagged up all the roadblocks that were in their way.
19:10
Peta: So the fact that they're dealing with for example, childcare or care of elderly relatives or other caring responsibilities, that they're often doing more housework, that they're often doing more, um, if they work in a corporate or like a, an office environment, they're often doing more of the additional kind of work around that.
19:28
Peta: So.
19:29
Peta: Organizing people's birthday presents and, um, helping with away days and stuff like that.
19:35
Peta: So there are, there's all, there are all these other things that that take up their time.
19:40
Peta: That men on the whole, obviously, because we're talking in stereotypes, men on the whole don't have to deal with.
19:45
Peta: Um, and that really kind of hit me because I talk a lot about how everything is political.
19:50
Peta: And I don't think people believe me a lot of the time, but, but this is kind of this, this article really hit me in this idea that the exercise.
19:59
Peta: That daily movement, that kind of freedom and, um, and strength in your body is political because all of these things that hold women back from doing that exercise, from caring for their body, for, from taking that, doing that movement, are societal pressures that have been lumped on them.
20:21
Peta: And then there's that added layer, which a few people in my DMs kind of reached out and said, like, yeah, there is a gender, there's an exercise gender gap, but there's also an added layer in terms of racial identity as well.
20:32
Peta: So if you look at the stats around black women or the stats around kind of, uh, the Asian women, any of the, any of the stats that you look at to do with minority ethnic groups in Western societies, um, they're getting even more, even less.
20:49
Peta: exercise, even less movement.
20:50
Peta: Um, and that's political too.
20:53
Donna: It is.
20:54
Donna: I think, um, I think, I'm not sure what this, I think this stat was back in, uh, 2020, 2019, but it showed that I think, and I think, um, 56 percent of black women, uh, receiving or doing the, only 20, yeah, only 56 percent of black women are doing the prerequisite, um, movement recommended.
21:21
Donna: In comparison, I can't remember if it's 62 percent of, of, of the, the remainder of the public.
21:24
Donna: I can't remember if that is, if that is, and when I saw that, um, basically made me even more, um, determined to create the UK first well being and fitness program.
21:37
Donna: Black fitness, um, festival to address and find that potentially why that was in 2019, because it's like, why are they not coming to because, you know, they, they think maybe that health that you know well being is a luxury because you see, they don't see themselves represented.
21:55
Donna: in the media, you know, when they show someone doing well, you know, well, you know, doing an exercise or what have you, it's, it doesn't represent them.
22:02
Donna: So there's representation is, is not there.
22:04
Donna: And as you say, the jobs that they're doing, they did all the other jobs as well.
22:09
Donna: They're out there maybe working maybe one or two jobs.
22:12
Donna: I'm not quite sure.
22:13
Donna: So they, they don't have time for that and they don't realize, or they're not told that the exercise If they fill their own cup, then they can, you know, serve everyone else from the overflow.
22:28
Donna: And they don't see that.
22:29
Donna: And that rest is a radical, you know, radical thing.
22:32
Donna: But it's, it's the toxic productivity that we always have to do, be doing, doing, doing, doing, doing.
22:37
Donna: And it's not the things that we need to help us to, to be well, unfortunately.
22:42
Donna: So I can, I totally understand that and, and see that.
22:45
Donna: But also if you go back, we begin to see when things change.
22:49
Donna: 'cause as, as teenagers, as, as, as women.
22:52
Donna: We, or girls, we give up fitness because maybe peer pressure, because since you and me, don't go to football or don't go to the gym, you know, you just go out and do something more girly, but yet boys, you know, football and all the other stuff that they're doing and they're, and they're encouraged to do that.
23:10
Donna: So sports becomes very part of, of, of, of their, their, their activities.
23:15
Donna: And it's a shame because yoga.
23:19
Donna: will be very good for young women because it helps with body image issues.
23:25
Donna: So a lot of the issues that we're seeing, if they began to realize their body could do so much more than they thought, and it wasn't so important based on looks, then there'd be, I think, a real change of that, a change of that.
23:39
Donna: And it would see how women would engage differently.
23:42
Donna: Because for me, you know, yoga for me, it's like liberation.
23:45
Donna: It liberated me from my job in terms of from the corporate world.
23:50
Donna: And now what I'm trying to do is liberate others, but they can see that that rest is part of the DNA, they need to rest, we're not robots, but we get caught up in that, you know, the, the, the, the strong black woman or the strong woman, all these things are said all the time.
24:07
Donna: And then we feel we have to manage that.
24:09
Donna: And I think I tried to do that as well, Peter.
24:11
Donna: But I've got the Bell's palsy because I've been believed now that it was stressed, you know, was trying to have it all, you know, so that you have it all.
24:17
Donna: You've got to do all these different things.
24:18
Donna: And we're juggling so many different things that we put our well being to the back burner, you know?
24:24
Donna: And, you know, when you're on the plane, what do they say to you to do in emergency?
24:28
Donna: Put the mask on yourself first, but yet in society, give, give, give, give, you sit down, Peter, you feel guilty no longer, but I sit down resting and I need to be doing something.
24:41
Donna: So we need to really address that and let women see how movement.
24:47
Donna: Can help them in slope to age, to help them with so many of the things we go through health wise, the menopause, you know, all those things, even my acupuncture.
24:56
Donna: She says, you're so lucky.
24:57
Donna: She said, Don, you've hardly had any symptoms of anything going because I've been doing yoga for a very long time.
25:02
Donna: I thought, you know what, you might be right, but unknowingly.
25:05
Donna: I was invested in my, in my health by, by doing, by doing movement, but we don't always see that.
25:11
Donna: But yeah, the men, you know, they, they go on the golf course, Oh, let's network, let's network or whatever they do, or they play squash again, networking.
25:19
Donna: So they actively bring those things in there.
25:21
Donna: But women, we kind of, you know, we, we, we stop those activities if some of us and, um, don't come back to them.
25:29
Donna: I know I was very much into athletics when I was a teenage girl at school.
25:34
Donna: But not a lot of, I didn't realize, but not a lot of my friends were doing it.
25:38
Donna: So I remember at one point I was quite good at the high jump and none of my, and I, I, I think I, I was going for the record of my school, but I got bored.
25:46
Donna: My friends went off and left me.
25:47
Donna: So I just went as high as I thought I could and didn't really have the, the, the, the motivation to go for it.
25:53
Donna: So you can see how our peers can, um, affect what we think about it.
25:57
Donna: And it wasn't very, It wasn't a career like it is now, you know, you go to Olympics and, and it wasn't, you know, part of my, my, my, um, my circle of friends were having that.
26:07
Donna: So yeah, so, but I think it's very, very much that it can be political and, and these factors now are being addressed, hopefully, to, to, to, to, to get women to, to, to enjoy movement because movement, you know, we need it.
26:24
Donna: If we don't move it, we lose it.
26:25
Donna: And we're an aging society as well.
26:28
Donna: So we're living for longer.
26:29
Donna: Or, or, or,
26:30
Peta: That's really interesting what you said about, um, the difference between boys and girls at school and then that networking thing with golf.
26:38
Peta: It feels like when, when boys are growing up that they are encouraged to see those sports as being like a home for their social activities.
26:49
Peta: Like it's what they make friends, they build teams, they, you know.
26:52
Peta: Like build connections, they, and then those connections often, like they'll be in, they'll have old rugby friends or old football friends, and then they'll do networking at work.
27:04
Peta: And that is with sports.
27:06
Peta: And that again, is that social kind of element to it.
27:10
Peta: So it's, it's woven into the different parts of their lives that help them get on.
27:15
Peta: Whereas with women, we're encouraged When we're girls, our social activities that are encouraged are to do with talking, or to do with shopping, or to do with, like, I don't know, going for walks, or going to cafes, or, I don't know, knitting, or,
27:34
Donna: or, or, or
27:34
Peta: or drinking, yeah, or
27:36
Donna: after work.
27:36
Donna: yeah.
27:36
Donna: or drinking.
27:37
Donna: But never do you see.
27:38
Donna: You're right, it's never anything that's to do with maybe, maybe a little bit now with yoga, you know, and those, is that, you know, you go to class, you might go after, but it wasn't there.
27:50
Donna: Because even like, I'm coming from, I remember my friend used to go to aerobics class, I didn't like it, and they eventually got me there.
27:55
Donna: And it's like, Oh, but I'd go out drinking instead,
27:58
Peta: Yeah.
27:59
Donna: that was the same thing.
28:00
Donna: It was easier than going and being sweaty.
28:02
Donna: And if you know, and again, a lot of us, uh, you know, some people of, of, uh, black people with the hair as well.
28:08
Donna: Some of them, you know, they want to get their hair messed up or their makeup messed up.
28:12
Donna: So those are all these things that men don't really care.
28:15
Donna: They get on and do it, but you're right.
28:16
Donna: But then these activities become ways in which they, They socialize, but they also network, they get jobs, you know, the old boys networks, if there may be jobs that would come via that route that would never get advertised, but we don't have them or have so many of those things for women.
28:31
Peta: Now, and I think that because they can tie them to, um, their careers or their professions or tie them to their social, um, social groups, they have a greater justification to go, well, I've got to go and do this because of this.
28:47
Peta: I've got to go to the, and play golf because it means I'll get that promotion.
28:50
Peta: I've got to go and play football because, because I'm going to catch up with all these people.
28:55
Peta: Whereas, because we don't have that connection as much as women.
28:59
Peta: Exercise just becomes another additional thing that we need to fit in, as well as our social life, and as well as our professional development.
29:07
Peta: And so everything gets squished into like, smaller and smaller gaps, rather than combining the, the, yeah.
29:13
Donna: think you're absolutely right, Peter.
29:15
Donna: That's also as well, because even like I think of activity, because when I did the athletics, it wasn't a way that we bonded, actually, we just got on the, the, the, the athletic still ran and then went home.
29:25
Donna: There was no post, you know, warm down or, or, or go into wherever to, to analyze what we did.
29:33
Donna: You're, you're, you're absolutely right.
29:35
Donna: There was none of that.
29:35
Donna: And even with aerobics as well, depending on the time you go, you do the class.
29:39
Donna: And you'd go home.
29:40
Donna: So it wasn't, we didn't, there was no like aspect to, to that now, but it's, it's kind of, as I said, changing because you, you know, with the whole, because what I'm seeing now, like you've got some yoga students now, what they're doing, they're trying to have everything in one, one space.
29:55
Donna: So if you go to yoga, there's like a cafe in house.
29:59
Donna: So they're encouraging that afterwards.
30:01
Donna: But for those of us that, um, have been doing this for a while, there's been that, not that natural path.
30:08
Donna: to that built in for the women.
30:11
Donna: It's like you do, you, you've got to go to work and then you're rarely going home.
30:15
Donna: There was none of that unless you, you know, if you were single and maybe after work, you'd go for a drink with some of the men, but is it, but you weren't invited to play.
30:24
Donna: I used to play squash and badminton, but it was mainly at the weekend and because I was quite sporty, but there was none of that.
30:30
Donna: Like someone at work saying, Donna, you're a female or Donna, would you like to pay?
30:33
Donna: Would you like to pay squash?
30:35
Donna: There was not that invitation there, you know, type thing or, or any activities we did.
30:39
Donna: It was like as a woman, you did on your own.
30:41
Donna: It was an individual pursuit, not a group pursuit.
30:44
Peta: Yeah, it's the other aspect that has always interested me is, as, as yoga particularly, and that aesthetic has become more mainstream and more trendy, and we moved into this whole athleisure thing, so you can walk around looking like supposedly you're about to go to a yoga class at any moment in time.
31:05
Peta: Um, and you can buy Lululemon, like, leggings for, I don't know, 250 million.
31:13
Peta: As that has happened.
31:15
Peta: Um, have you seen, because you've been in, you've been in the space for a while, have you seen people feel less like they can get involved because of that like elevated expensive vibe that it's been given like social
31:34
Donna: Yeah, definitely.
31:35
Donna: Cause they've made it sort of a lifestyle, something that's attainable.
31:39
Donna: So you definitely see that because I, yeah, definitely with Lululemon, it's like, and I think it's the brand that you just mentioned, it gets mentioned all the time, um, in terms of that.
31:48
Donna: But when I started out, there was no yoga clothes.
31:52
Donna: I used to just rock up with Nike bottoms, A t shirt and wear whatever I want.
31:56
Donna: And there was no, there was, there was no embarrassment or shame or anyone looking down at me.
32:02
Donna: It's only through later on in life that Lululemon came along and then somebody said it's when they came along, they made it a lifestyle.
32:09
Donna: So marketing, because all you need to do for yoga is wear what makes you feel comfortable.
32:15
Donna: If you want to wear your pajamas, wear your pajamas.
32:19
Donna: You know, and I've done yoga to show people, even though it's happened by accident, in my jeans.
32:24
Donna: You can do, you can rock up.
32:25
Donna: Jeans have been a bit restrictive, but I was
32:27
Peta: Yeah.
32:27
Donna: do it in my jeans.
32:28
Donna: But you can do it in whatever you want to.
32:30
Donna: Unfortunately, it's become so tightly Conflated with, you have to wear, you know, a certain item or clothing because you go to somebody's mainstream yoga and everyone almost looks the same.
32:44
Donna: They're all in Lululemon.
32:46
Donna: So again, if you go there, you're not wearing that.
32:48
Donna: How are you going to feel?
32:49
Donna: You're going to feel as though you don't fit in.
32:51
Donna: And that's unfortunate, but there are, there were those of us that are trying to make yoga accessible.
32:56
Donna: Like I'm trying to do an inclusive by saying rock up as you are, you know, and You know, we're creating safe judgment free spaces, you can come with whatever you want to wear because it's not a prerequisite and show that imagery.
33:08
Donna: And it's so heartening to see there's a few quite a few of us now doing that and that there are brands now that are creating clothing, like there's one in particular, I think they did like, from size zero up to size 26.
33:21
Donna: But then they said, okay, we're going to forget there's enough for those down at the size zero end.
33:25
Donna: We're just going to concentrate on the, on the larger sizes.
33:28
Donna: So there are brands that are actively doing that to encourage, um, individuals to come to yoga.
33:33
Donna: And if they want to have those clothing, that they're inclusive in that regard.
33:36
Donna: And we're seeing the change because inclusion is the future.
33:39
Donna: And we're seeing more and more brands.
33:41
Donna: Potting it onto that, relatedly, but there, and it's a good thing, you know, that they're doing that.
33:46
Donna: But unfortunately, not just yoga clothes, but in some of the mainstream shops.
33:50
Donna: Um, I don't know how it is these days, but you're going to store in an inclusive or the largest sites would be in the corner of the store.
33:56
Donna: I think I don't still the case, but there was that happened as well.
34:00
Donna: But now I think people aren't putting up that with that anymore.
34:02
Donna: So they're having to be truly inclusive.
34:05
Donna: If they're not, they're being called out because you have some, it's another trend.
34:08
Donna: You know, let me, let me put a size 18 in my, in my clothing line, and it's meant to be inclusive.
34:13
Donna: So I wouldn't touch, you know, type thing.
34:16
Peta: Yeah, so clothing was another thing, yeah, that I was gonna, that I was gonna mention, like this idea that, yeah, because they're trying to create this image, this aesthetic, and different sized bodies don't necessarily fit into that, which means you can't find the clothes, which means you feel like you can't get involved, which means, um, so I'm working with I'm working with a sports bra brand at the moment.
34:38
Peta: Um, and their whole kind of idea is that.
34:42
Peta: Anybody should be able to find a sports bra that fits their body.
34:46
Donna: Speak to you about that.
34:48
Donna: I had, I had, I had an idea because I've got this idea for a yoga bra because in one of the yoga poses is, um, unfortunately women feel that, um, I think it's shoulder stand.
34:57
Donna: So they, so they get suffocated because
34:59
Peta: Oh, yeah.
35:00
Peta: Yeah.
35:00
Donna: so I had this, this idea to, to, to create a bra that stops that.
35:04
Donna: So maybe we should talk off, off offline later.
35:06
Donna: So I've never done it.
35:07
Donna: So maybe the universe is like, there you go,
35:10
Peta: Yeah, we'll try.
35:11
Peta: Um, so yeah, things.
35:14
Peta: And so clothing like that, if like, If you can't find it, then you feel like you can't kind of do the movement.
35:21
Peta: Um, and that's less of an issue, as you just said, for yoga, because you can, no matter what people say, like you can do yoga and whatever.
35:28
Peta: Um, it's, I mean, it's more complicated when it comes to things like running bras and, and good trainers and all that kind of stuff.
35:35
Peta: So there's, if you can, firstly, you might not be able to find the clothing, but then when you can find the clothing, um, You feel like it is an absolute fortune, and then that cuts out a whole bunch of people from, from feeling like they can get involved in the sport.
35:50
Peta: Um, there are quite a few, in the last few years I've seen quite a few initiatives popping up where, um, Athletic brands or fitness brands have kind of partnered with local shelters and local community centers to kind of collect, um, athletics clothing, kind of sports clothing and make sure that people who can't afford it have access to it.
36:14
Peta: But it's um, it feels like, it feels like we as a society are getting our heads around the fact that we all need to move more and that all different kinds of people can be sporty.
36:28
Peta: Like.
36:30
Peta: There's not one kind of body shape that is the athletic kind of ideal.
36:36
Peta: By doing that, it's got Trendy, like you said, and that has put an extra price tag on activities which would have been free.
36:50
Peta: Um, yeah, I don't know how I feel about that.
36:53
Peta: It's like, can you have one without the other?
36:55
Donna: Yeah.
36:56
Donna: No, but what's good though, and we're doing this in yoga because I keep using yoga as a reference point, but there are four of us that are trying to adjust, address those.
37:05
Donna: And there are some genuine brands that want the price point to be the same because they realize that, that you shouldn't be penalized for that.
37:12
Donna: So, and then maybe, you know, at some point if there's enough of us doing it, then they'll, it's those, those will fall to the wayside and it becomes all that regards to your size You know, you can have access and pay the same price.
37:23
Donna: I don't see why it, that, that should be the case at all.
37:26
Donna: And I, and I've got friends like, you know, Jessamyn Stanley and in the States and they, you know, they promote brands that are very ethical in, in, in, in that sense.
37:36
Donna: It's not about the money and using it as an excuse to, to charge a premium for the, for someone's size.
37:41
Donna: And that's, that's not right at all.
37:43
Donna: You know, should it be that if you're slim, then that you pay less because you're using Okay, let's, let's put that to you then.
37:50
Donna: So if you're, if you, if you're free, I'm using this material, let me, so you can see that they just use this as another way to, to charge for something that it shouldn't be charging for in that respect.
38:03
Donna: But, you know, and, and that's the beauty is that what I'm now seeing Pete is that You know, we can all do something about it.
38:12
Donna: We can be the change we want to see in the world.
38:15
Donna: Like with me, I, I didn't set out to, to be who I am.
38:19
Donna: And, and, and, and go out there and disrupt the wellbeing space.
38:23
Donna: And, um, so we can do that.
38:25
Donna: You know, if there's any fashion designers out there.
38:27
Donna: You know, create a range, you know, and do it and, you know, hook me and Peter up, we'll promote you.
38:33
Donna: But when we're doing that, because even like at the OM Yoga show, when I went there to see if what I was doing was needed back in 2012, and I was one of the few people of color there, and I've gone back since then, I've seen more and more people there, but also clothing brands.
38:47
Donna: I was one of the few people that was offering clothing, mainly t shirts and leggings, for anyone over size 12.
38:52
Donna: And I went back.
38:54
Donna: Almost this year.
38:55
Donna: And there was a brand, they watched a Kirby brand that were there.
38:58
Donna: So it's nice that full circle moment.
39:00
Donna: So there, there is a change, a change happening, not enough.
39:03
Donna: We've still got a long way to go, but there is a change happening now.
39:05
Donna: And, and any consumer that they go out there and demand, if you have a brand you like, demand that they, they, they, they, they put out more sizes there because, you know, we do money talks and we need to use that voice, you know, if we're not buying from them.
39:20
Donna: You know, then they'll have to make the change if they want to stay in business.
39:24
Donna: So
39:25
Peta: Yeah.
39:25
Peta: True.
39:26
Peta: So are there brands that you, that you do rates for things like that?
39:31
Donna: Um, I can't think of them right now, so I can also send them to you.
39:34
Donna: Um, because it's, um, yeah, I'll send that to you in the, in the show notes, but I can send the ones that I, I do knew, because there's a few that I've worked with in the past.
39:41
Donna: But Yoga Matters actually is one, and they have got inclusive clothing on top of my head, but there's a few in the States as well, so I'll think of those and send them to you.
39:49
Peta: Nice.
39:50
Peta: That'd be great.
39:51
Donna: And even like, even, even with props, you know, that they have props that are inclusive, because when you have, you know, you use yoga blocks and you're trying to turn them different sides, they're fancy, but you want them sturdy.
40:02
Donna: So I, I, I'll, I'll put those, um, send those to you in that respect.
40:07
Donna: Yeah.
40:08
Donna: But we need that.
40:08
Donna: And even like I said, the sports bra, we definitely need that.
40:11
Donna: Cause I sit in, cause I see that there's certain individuals that won't do certain poses because.
40:17
Donna: Of, of, of, because of their body type, but there's ways they can do it because what we see as well is that someone looks at somebody, Pete, and they say, Oh, you know, we're trying to tell someone's health status or the ability by looking at them when we can't, and we shouldn't do that.
40:30
Donna: You know, health, unfortunately is, um, fitness is becoming conflicted with health and that shouldn't be the case at all.
40:37
Donna: You know, I may smoke, I don't smoke, but if I, I could smoke a hundred cigarettes and no one's even going to say anything to me, but I can be curvy of one chip in my hand and get in there.
40:46
Donna: You know, can you eat that?
40:48
Donna: Or are you thinking about that?
40:49
Donna: And it's like, no, it's not right.
40:51
Donna: And that's why I teach yoga teachers as well, because of that unconscious bias and how these can come into play without us realizing it as well.
41:00
Donna: So that's, you know, in language, the importance of language, you know, the language we use to individuals that come into the, any wellbeing space, how, you know, it's difficult for someone to come in those, especially they don't believe they belong.
41:13
Donna: And then we can inspire or devastate someone By a few words, so we know we need to think before we speak sometimes when we're in an environment where we're trying to create a safe, judgment free space for people just to be.
41:27
Peta: And how do you do that?
41:28
Peta: So if you're kind of, obviously you do it, how are you teaching?
41:32
Peta: How are you, um, doing that for people that you meet in space?
41:35
Peta: How are you teaching other teachers to do that?
41:38
Donna: Okay, so if I make, so basically, through advertising, so I try to let people, before they even come to my yoga class, know straight away that it's a safe, judgment free space, I say that.
41:47
Donna: And I also say, um, If someone comes in, actually in my physical class, I say, if all you want to do today is breathe, that's fine too.
41:53
Donna: If you want to lie on your back and surpass them.
41:55
Donna: So that empowers them.
41:57
Donna: I try and normalize taking the pause.
41:59
Donna: If you want to take a pause, take a pause.
42:01
Donna: And if people are going quickly, I said, there's no price for coming first in yoga because you know, people like rush and then suddenly you see them slow down.
42:09
Donna: And I introduce humor because there's certain yoga I do.
42:12
Donna: And I can see that they're In a class ahead of me and I say, you're not here with me and you're in the 10 o'clock class and we're at the 12 o'clock class, so you're ahead of me or, you know, and then they begin to slow down, they begin to slow down.
42:23
Donna: And, um, and, and, and by making it fun and saying, don't compare yourself to anyone else in the room, someone could be, have been doing this for 10 years, and you're doing it 10 minutes.
42:34
Donna: So listen to your body.
42:36
Donna: So it brings it back to them.
42:37
Donna: Your, your business is only.
42:40
Donna: To deal with what's on your map with you today, and just to know that every single day you come, you're going to experience what you're doing a different way.
42:48
Donna: One day you may come and your tree post is solid, the next time, you know, you might be Wavering, you know, like a tree in the breeze, replicating nature.
42:56
Donna: But because real life is happening to you, what are you bringing onto your map?
43:00
Donna: Connect with that.
43:01
Donna: Let your body tell you what's going on with you.
43:04
Donna: And then you're beginning to see that they move from the external and begin to experience the body from the inside out, or say close your eyes.
43:13
Donna: And that can be quite profound because then they have to rely on different senses.
43:17
Donna: So I try and give them skills that they can go to their everyday life, like to slow them down.
43:22
Donna: So the, the shopping list in their brain is, is, is stopped.
43:26
Donna: So they really can be in the moment to the, and I'll say, you can go to a gym and you can win the treadmill, but you've got music going and you read a magazine, but in this moment right now, I'm allowing you hopefully to connect with you without the noise.
43:44
Donna: And let them see, as well, Peter, when, if they're in Savasana, I used to do it after, you know, the class finishes.
43:51
Donna: Oh, Savasana, Matt, under my arm, running out of the room.
43:55
Donna: And it's the most important part of the class.
43:57
Donna: But after time, we explain, what I do is explain to individuals.
44:01
Donna: But what I love to do as well, Peter, is that, and my students, because I say, what's it, what's my question?
44:06
Donna: And they say, Donna.
44:07
Donna: You see us, you meet us where you are, you don't leave us there, you bring us with you, so I explain why they're doing something.
44:15
Donna: And one of the other thing I do, Peter, but they, they never pay me, I say every time I, you, you have a doubt about something, you owe me money.
44:22
Donna: So they say, I can't do it.
44:23
Donna: You can see the nose and their body's like saying, yeah, I can.
44:26
Donna: And then they do it, the shock on their face when they achieve something, or after practicing with me, Peter, and they're doing a pose and they're doing it so beautifully.
44:35
Donna: Yeah.
44:36
Donna: That's the trust that they have first with me, but most importantly with themselves.
44:41
Donna: And when you see them do like a deep backbend and I'm not even there to, I'm there, but I'm not putting my hand out behind them to support them because they trust their body.
44:51
Donna: When they come up and he said, have you gone back far enough?
44:53
Donna: And they go, and you know, they've gone deep.
44:55
Donna: They're open their heart.
44:57
Donna: They're not closing off.
44:58
Donna: And that's how I try to meet them there.
45:00
Donna: And, you know, I try and find out about them, you know, that pronouns, you know, if I, I, if I, I have my pronouns, so that hopefully will allow someone else to feel free that they can share their pronouns as well.
45:13
Donna: And just not using generic language, you know, I don't know who's in front of me.
45:17
Donna: So I try to make sure that I cause no trauma.
45:20
Donna: I may make mistakes.
45:22
Donna: I, I, you know, I, I get my, my left and my right mix up, but I don't care.
45:26
Donna: I normalize that because we're not perfect.
45:29
Donna: So I try to, you know, show that you don't have to be perfect and there's no such thing as perfect.
45:35
Donna: And that's what I try and do.
45:36
Donna: My best is to meet you there and to see you and allow you to enjoy the experience, that you'll come back.
45:43
Donna: That's my goal.
45:43
Donna: And that may not happen all the time because, you know, there's different forms, actually, for everybody.
45:49
Donna: But just so that they can see what they can do to preach at their body for their body does for them.
45:55
Donna: And, and most importantly, to have a love, you know, my students now, you know, they know what I mix up my left and my right, I say other leg, other leg, and they do, if they make a mistake, I say other right, other right.
46:04
Donna: And they, they, they, until they get it.
46:06
Donna: So we make fun with that.
46:07
Donna: And that's the beauty of it.
46:08
Donna: But I'm aware that people will judge me.
46:10
Donna: I get judged all the time and, and I make a judgment, but now I'm not so quick.
46:17
Donna: I'm, I'm learning to relearn.
46:20
Donna: And I advise.
46:21
Donna: Not only students, but teachers do that as well, because sometimes we come from a very Western viewpoint in life.
46:26
Donna: And, um, and there is always another way, you know, don't just accept what you're told.
46:31
Donna: Question what you're told.
46:33
Donna: And that's how you can learn.
46:34
Donna: And, and to learn from your students because they can be your best friends.
46:40
Donna: I've learned so much from students, you know, um, I've made mistakes and very humbling ones, but they're ones I talk about now and share them, but also they've helped me be who I am that anyone that comes into my yoga space.
46:55
Donna: I can, I can, I can teach them so whether or not someone comes in, they, they There's chair yoga that I do, bed yoga, aqua yoga, so that I can adapt the yoga to suit their body, not that they feel they have to contort their body to the pose.
47:11
Peta: That's very powerful.
47:12
Peta: And the, the slowness that you mentioned, and you've done it quite a lot as we've talked, has been really interesting because it is a complete antithesis to everything that we talk about how society should work.
47:24
Peta: Like we're, we're still.
47:26
Peta: even if we don't think we are, we are still so steeped in capitalism and this idea of productivity and efficiency and, I don't know, the Protestant work ethic.
47:37
Peta: There's my sociology background popping in to say hello.
47:40
Peta: Um, all of that stuff, but they always have to be doing things or it always has to be getting better, getting faster, getting more productive.
47:50
Donna: sorry, and somebody actually said to me, because I was teaching a class and I can't remember what I said, but they were getting ahead of me and, um, and, and I said, why?
47:58
Donna: And they said, to get ahead.
48:00
Donna: And I thought, I forgot about that.
48:01
Donna: They're trying to get ahead.
48:01
Donna: So competition, getting ahead of, of, and doing that in the class.
48:05
Donna: They brought that to the mat.
48:06
Donna: Yeah.
48:06
Donna: But, and what makes me laugh though now, and this is where I get to slow down, is like we, we come from the floor and we come up and it's like they're in a forward fold and they're on and I say, roll up, try and be the slowest person in the room.
48:17
Donna: Some of them are up in two seconds, I say, if that's your slow, I want to see your fast.
48:21
Donna: And they laugh, but then it brings them back to maybe think, you know what, I did go fast.
48:25
Donna: They're not realizing what they're doing.
48:26
Donna: They're not present.
48:28
Donna: And then when you bring them all together, Peter, and they move as one, it's the most powerful, impactful thing because you, you can feel that and they can feel the energy.
48:36
Donna: And that's what you're trying to cultivate is everyone moving together as one.
48:39
Donna: And if you bring that on the map, imagine if you all work together as a society, you know, you're bringing people from different walks of life into a yoga space potentially.
48:49
Donna: So you're breaking down barriers.
48:52
Donna: They're getting to know maybe meet people they wouldn't normally get to meet.
48:55
Donna: And it changes perceptions.
48:56
Donna: That's the power of yoga.
48:58
Donna: And that's why social justice at the core of what I do, because it's letting people get rid of stereotypes of a group of people, find out about those people, get to know them.
49:08
Donna: And then because social justice, the yoga is political because what it's trying to bring about is social justice.
49:15
Donna: There's in yoga, there's, uh, ahimsa, the eight limbs of yoga.
49:18
Donna: And the one I always quote a lot is ahimsa, which means nonviolence, nonviolence to yourself, the pushing.
49:27
Donna: The no compassion, the beating yourself up, making you aware of that, so you can eliminate that, but then if you're compassionate to yourself and non violent to yourself, then you're non violent to other people.
49:43
Donna: That's the ripple effect.
49:47
Donna: into the world.
49:48
Peta: that is a perfect name.
49:49
Peta: to, um, to end on and to give people to think about.
49:52
Peta: Thank you very much.
49:53
Peta: Um, if people want to find you, uh, if they want to Curbsome Yoga, if they want to read your book, which I will put in the show notes, um, how do they do it?
50:03
Peta: How do they get in touch?
50:04
Donna: You can find me on the Donna Noble yoga on Instagram of all social media basically and Facebook and, and, and Curse on Yoga.
50:13
Donna: So yeah, those two are my tags.
50:15
Donna: Also, my website is the noble art of yoga and well being.
50:20
Donna: And my book, you can find anywhere there, you know, you can find reputable books, Amazon, etc.
50:25
Donna: And I'm writing book number two, so that will hopefully come out in 2026.
50:28
Donna: But, and, um, yeah, so you find out my classes and I've got yoga retreats coming up.
50:33
Donna: So you can find out all there.
50:34
Donna: But also please feel free to message me if you've got any questions about yoga.
50:37
Donna: Because yoga is for you.
50:39
Donna: Yoga is for everybody.
50:41
Peta: Thank you, Donna.
50:42
Peta: It's been an absolute pleasure to talk to you.
50:44
Donna: Thank you for having me.
50:45
Donna: It's been an absolute pleasure being here.