Latest / The Kink Consultant / Ep 05 - BDSM 101: The Do's and Don'ts with Jim and Veronica

Transcript

Ep 05 - BDSM 101: The Do's and Don'ts with Jim and Veronica · The Kink Consultant

• 0:08
  It's the King Consultant podcast where we're turning up the heat
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  on all things kink and dating, relationships and top culture.
• 0:14
  So close the door, plug in your headphones, and let's get down
• 0:17
  to it. Hey, and welcome to this week's
• 0:23
  episode of The King Consultant. I'm Amanda Dames, and today I'm
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  joined by two infamous people in the Las Vegas King scene.
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  I'm here with Veronica and Jim. Welcome.
• 0:32
  Thank you. Thank you so much.
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  I was so excited when you both agreed to join.
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  So Veronica and Jim, you are married to each other, correct?
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  And you have been together for how many years?
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  We've been married 26 but I think now we're almost at 28
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  years together. Yeah, 96.
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  Wow, so you got married fast? We did.
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  Yeah, but we were military, so I was 18 when we met and I had.
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  He was two days legal. Well, I literally.
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  Just turned 18. And he swooped in.
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  Yeah, immediately. I didn't.
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  Swoop. Oh, he.
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  Was the swooper. Yeah, I was the swoopee.
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  I mean, it's with a lot of military relationships.
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  I don't know if how many military people you know, but
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  marriages happen really quick and they usually end up kind of
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  fizzling out as quick as they start with it.
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  The turnover rate, or divorce rate in the military is
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  outrageously high. Like higher than on the average
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  50%? Oh, yeah, yeah.
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  And it's, it depends. There's so many factors that go
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  into that too. Like if you like your alone time
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  because your spouse might be deployed every, you know, once a
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  year for six months, once a year for nine months.
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  Like even our our son right now our oldest is in the military
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  and he just came home on leave for two weeks and brought a
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  fiance home with him that I'm well prepared for.
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  Yeah, that's a lot actually. It is, yeah.
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  Well, I guess I should say thank you both for your service then
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  and your son. Congrats on the new future
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  daughter-in-law. Yeah.
• 1:51
  OK, well so when you both met, did you know you were kinky?
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  I was not. You weren't.
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  Even I was absolutely vanilla. I was as as like a cisgendered
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  white male, typical frat boy kind of guy that was out there.
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  And I was extremely vanilla. Veronica was a little kinkier
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  than I was. I always thought I was kind of a
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  weirdo when I was young, you know, like other kinky folk, you
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  kind of keep your weirdness to yourself or you think
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  something's wrong with you or Oh yeah, you know.
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  So I just just kept it to myself.
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  I didn't know that there was other people out there, you
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  know, kind of like into this. Keep in mind this is the mid 90s
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  too. Yeah.
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  So that's it's yeah, we would be considered kinky just cuz we
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  were an interracial couple at that point.
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  Depending on what part of America are you in?
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  I you were in. I'm guessing that was true.
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  Yeah, I. I specifically have one memory
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  of fucking around and Veronica was like smack my ass and I was
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  like, are you OK? Oh my God, Like you've become so
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  perverted. Oh yeah, you play.
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  You're not. Gonna get the whole word out
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  before it's already coming and this meat hawk doesn't really.
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  You know you have to ask. It's coming.
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  OK, you asked to have your ass smacked, which may be bottomed
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  in that one second, but how do you both identify?
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  I constantly tell people that I, I don't, I've never looked at
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  myself as a Dom in that sense, because to me it's a, it's a
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  power exchange relationship with another person.
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  Like, yeah, you can be a solo Dom, you can be by yourself, but
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  it doesn't click for me in that sense.
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  To me, unless I have somebody that I want to be dominant over
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  or dominant with, I consider myself a top in many situations.
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  And somebody pointed out recently that we're like the
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  community mommy and daddy. We're like the community mom,
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  dad. We're like the community doms
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  that come in to come out there because we constantly get asked
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  to top scenes at parties or do things or, yeah, take control of
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  a scenario. When something's wrong, somebody
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  comes to us for problems. Jim's more of a disciplinarian,
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  which is why he ends up being a brat tamer because you have
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  disciplinarian and all the brats go oh, daddy.
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  And that's that's pretty much his role.
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  So, you know, he's dominant top and disciplinarian.
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  I am a dominant. I am aware.
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  So please don't let anybody, like don't let Veronica fool you
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  with her demure, gentle presence here.
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  She is one of the scariest doms you'll ever see.
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  I saw her doming first and then the second time I went to her
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  house and we'll get into that. She gave me a tour and I was
• 4:08
  shaking because I was like, this can't be the same woman.
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  Is this the same woman? Very strong Dom personality that
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  comes. On quite a heavy.
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  Heavy, yes. Scary is the word I would use,
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  yes. We used to throw parties with a
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  friend before the clubhouse, well before any of the stuff.
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  And every month we would take turns throwing a party.
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  And we both had really nice homes at the time, so we could
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  oust a lot of people. And the parties at that point
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  were 50 people or so on average. And we would get to his house
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  early to help set up and do all this stuff.
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  And we came in and Veronica was wearing a onesie carrying a
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  giant tray of just homemade Mac and cheese and kind of came in,
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  Duke, Duke, Duke, they're normal, like mom mode and kind
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  of put the Mac and cheese down and then went off to go change.
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  And we had met a new couple that was there.
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  And the girl that was there was just like, Oh my God, Mac jeez.
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  She was just like so obsessed with it.
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  And then Veronica came out in full, just full Dom mode, and
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  she was like, what the. Fuck yes.
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  Like lost it. She's like, it's not the same
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  person. It's not the same person.
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  Yeah, I could turn it on and off.
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  Somebody was telling me that I have black Mama energy.
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  I think that on top of the Dom makes you way scarier than if
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  you would just be just a Dom, but.
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  I would let a lot of people taught me right and I don't
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  think I have the balls to let you job me.
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  I mean I would even be able to take you, but you are I don't
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  believe it, but no, I know I know you can adjust You are a
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  you are. I can't say a pro cuz you're not
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  like a pro like that, are you? I.
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  Mean I could be, I just, I'm also a nurse.
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  I'm so busy and I'm so tired. And then so I have, I like pull
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  up all my energy for our parties and stuff and then it just takes
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  a lot out cuz it's a lot of mental energy that I use at
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  work. So I mean, I've thought about
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  it. I've thought about just, you
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  know, yeah, just doing it. Let's keep that in mind.
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  I will. I will keep that in mind.
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  I usually have not so much as set people that I play with, but
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  I kind of like to get to watch people and know them a little
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  bit, yeah, before I put my hands on them.
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  Sorry, I've seen you put your hands on people too.
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  And I'm like, yeah, that's probably why.
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  Because I, I want to see what their yeses and noes are.
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  I mean, we go through that with negotiation anyway.
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  But I do like to see how people react with others and then just
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  to kind of get to know them a little bit, you know, just
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  having a drink or whatever or soda and just listening to them
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  talk to other people. And then I'm like, OK, oh,
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  you're like that. Noted.
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  I just take little things that they say and.
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  Do you know immediately if you are gonna get along with playing
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  with someone? Yes, because if I don't think
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  it's gonna happen, I'm not gonna play with you.
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  Yeah. But do you know, do you pick up
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  on the energy, would you say? Yeah, absolutely.
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  Yeah, I do, yeah. I didn't realize that that's
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  what that was like. Just even before I start a
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  scene, I get real close to the person and we're like 4 head to
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  forehead and I'm just, you know, I didn't realize that that was
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  such a huge energy exchange that I was doing.
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  And then I'll go in with a plan. But then once I'm like in their
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  space and in their energy and I'm like, no.
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  To read that body language. I'm gonna do this instead.
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  It's gonna be funny. Great.
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  I know, but I also think it's not just body, it is body
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  language, Right? But when you get into that
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  energy field with someone and you like Createspace and put
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  your bubble around them and bring them into your world, it's
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  electric and you almost just know sometimes.
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  Yeah, due to good negotiation in advance, but yeah.
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  I know where to go. Yeah, exactly.
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  OK. So you both reference this, you
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  throw parties, Yes, at your house?
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  Yeah, right now it's it's at our house.
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  Our organization is the cathedral and part of that is
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  because even though, yes, we do hurt people, but it is a
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  sanctuary of safety. It really is.
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  So cuz we want people to feel safe when they come, we want
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  them to learn how to play safe when they come.
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  Jim does a wonderful one O 1 and I swear it gets better every
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  time he does it because he like tweaks it and he listens to
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  other Doms when they come to the class and they're like, hey,
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  what do you think about adding this or doing that?
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  And he does such a wonderful job of just drawing you in.
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  So I don't go to everyone on one.
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  He does, but then I'll go to them every once in a while.
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  I'm like, oh, that's new. That was.
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  Good. That's a lot of the same
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  regurgitated information over and over again.
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  But you. Just say that, but I'm ashamed
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  to say I haven't been to a single one yet.
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  But then everyone who goes and goes multiple times says the
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  exact same thing about how they get better and better.
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  How everyone who attends, no matter how long they've been in
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  the scene, they learn something from attending the 101.
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  So I need to get on that. OK.
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  So it's called the Cathedral. It's like a sanctuary.
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  Jims FET name is. Hope because it's the.
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  Cathedral and I think that. Is great now see this started
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  out my my best friend his wife and his kids were playing Cards
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  Against Humanity with Veronica myself and our kids now they I
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  say kids. Which was a joy in itself.
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  And at this point, our our boys are 23 and 25.
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  They're older. And his kids are the same age.
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  So they were all older teenagers at this time.
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  One of them was an adult. They were they were 18.
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  The rest were like 16 to 18. But we're all sitting there
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  doing our stuff and our youngest is huge in the theater.
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  Like he's literally right now doing a interview audition or
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  something. We don't know what it is, but so
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  we're playing and my buddy is reading the card on macdaddy.
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  Our youngest son was like going through all the different cards
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  and things and he's like, wow, what's a macdaddy?
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  And we're like, Oh my God, dude, don't make I can't feel the old
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  look it up. So he reads it off Urban
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  Dictionary and just and all his vibrato and everything he could
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  do, just giving this fucking this whole spiel and he goes the
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  Pope of Pimps and I was. Like Jim was like Ding Ding,
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  Ding. That's it.
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  He immediately pulled out his phone.
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  OK, Jim has a habit of changing his name on.
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  Fab. Had a habit and usually it's
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  when he's had a few libations there.
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  Like at one point he changed his name.
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  He was standing there with another redhead and this blonde
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  very drunk walk by and she goes cinnamon stick.
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  And Jim was like, oh, it was funny.
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  And then he changed to say I had to fight him for his phone.
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  But he has longer arms and he changed his name to cinnamon
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  stick, which he very much regretted.
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  And you know, you have to keep it for 30 days.
• 10:00
  Right, yeah, That life lets you change your name every 28 days.
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  So at that time, I was changing it every 28 days to whatever I
• 10:06
  thought was funny. So whoever was in my target at
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  that time, I would make fun of their profile name with my name
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  and do something just something stupid.
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  But I changed it for like the first year, like every 28 days.
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  So I was constantly going through profile names until
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  somebody took my original name and it started doing it back to
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  me. And I was like, this sucks.
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  And then Pope, a pimp stuck for, well, it's been like well over a
• 10:26
  decade. Well, now I'm it's just Pope.
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  I know I was shocked when I was like, what are all the pimps
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  gonna do? Why did you drop it?
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  Right. A friend of mine had changed
• 10:38
  their name to something really simple.
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  They had a complicated name before and they were changed
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  something simple. But if you've ever been on
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  Fetlife, everything simple or everything good is kind of
• 10:47
  already taken. So it's hard to get something
• 10:49
  unique on there that's that's simple.
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  But when I asked her, she said, well, nobody had used that
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  account in like a really long time.
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  So I just emailed the administrators and they let me
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  take over that account name and they just gave a placeholder
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  name to that person in case they ever came back.
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  So when I looked up Pope, they started the account in the
• 11:04
  beginning meaning of Fetlife, but they had one picture and no
• 11:07
  profile and that was it. So I just emailed them the first
• 11:10
  time I got denied. They're like, no, we don't do
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  that. And I was like, hey, you do.
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  But I waited like six months and I asked again and when I logged
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  in next time I was I was already changed.
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  They changed it for me. So if you do see one that's on a
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  really old, old account that's dormant, not used, you you can
• 11:24
  potentially get that account. Potentially I wish I had that
• 11:26
  for Instagram does not do that. I have to be the under score
• 11:30
  king consultant even though the king consultant all one word is
• 11:33
  dormant. Nothing has been posted.
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  But maybe I'll try again and again just like you did.
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  Persistent. Be persistent, squeaky wheel.
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  So when did you move to Vegas? I feel like it's recent enough,
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  like I've only moved here last year.
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  How long have you been in Vegas? We've been about 3 1/2 years
• 11:47
  now. We had owned a home in
• 11:49
  California. A friend of ours is a real
• 11:52
  estate agent in both California and Nevada, and he would bounce
• 11:55
  back and forth and he had two gorgeous homes in both.
• 11:57
  But he's very successful in real estate and kept selling up Vegas
• 12:01
  to us because California wasn't ever really at that time wasn't
• 12:05
  the end goal because it was so expensive.
• 12:07
  We couldn't justify how much we were trying to spend on, on real
• 12:09
  estate and, and other things that were out there.
• 12:12
  When you retire, you're on a fixed income.
• 12:14
  So I was trying to think further down the road on things.
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  And so we had a list of five cities and Vegas wasn't even on
• 12:19
  it at the time. So we, we came out and he showed
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  us all around the city and showed us that I got the variety
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  of food that was out here, the entertainment and everything was
• 12:27
  wonderful. It was gorgeous with the scenery
• 12:28
  of like, I didn't even know there were mountains out here
• 12:30
  because we, we would come out and go to the hotel and never
• 12:33
  leave the hotel. So like seeing Mount Charleston
• 12:35
  and everything else that was out there, it was just the heat was
• 12:38
  the big kicker. That was the massive con that
• 12:41
  oh, I still to this day. OK, I love the heat.
• 12:44
  You hate the heat. I I've heard you really hate it.
• 12:47
  It makes me hostile. I, I have to say five months.
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  I thought I was going to be fine, but no, it makes me
• 12:53
  hostile and it just makes me not feel good.
• 12:55
  Yeah, no, that's fair. You know, that's the cold for
• 12:57
  me. I will take 120° / 40° any day.
• 13:01
  I. Love the cold though, because
• 13:03
  you can always put things on, but once you've taken off that
• 13:05
  last article of clothing, there is nothing else that you can
• 13:08
  possibly shed not to. Cool off I.
• 13:10
  Like to earn my sweat? No, I just like to bake, OK?
• 13:14
  So you're a lizard. It's fine.
• 13:15
  I'm a lizard. Kind of tied into when we got
• 13:18
  out here, we, you know, we came in with a decade of experience
• 13:21
  with owning a club and doing stuff with the community out
• 13:24
  there. I didn't want to walk into Vegas
• 13:26
  and just be like, I'm the big Dick in town now.
• 13:28
  That's how we're going to do things and just kind of set the,
• 13:30
  the bond stuff. So I, I sat back in the cut.
• 13:32
  I tried to find the different groups that were out here, which
• 13:35
  was wildly difficult because it was the end of the pandemic.
• 13:38
  And if you just search Las Vegas on Fetlife, you get 15 pages of
• 13:42
  inactive groups or sex groups or you know that gang bangs.
• 13:46
  Or sex groups. I was just going to say so many.
• 13:49
  Yeah, and navigating through that was difficult.
• 13:52
  So I ended up finding some random couple that I saw was
• 13:55
  active and in Las Vegas and they directed me towards a group
• 13:58
  called Building Blocks, which was active at the time and it
• 14:01
  was education based. So I got involved and I sat back
• 14:04
  and I just watched and it was like education, I love it.
• 14:06
  We're gonna go learn more about classes, do things again.
• 14:08
  And then they were looking for a location to throw a party.
• 14:10
  And I was like, well, I got a big ass house, I'll watch the
• 14:12
  travel nurse. She's gone at the moment.
• 14:14
  And you know, throw a party. I like weird shit.
• 14:16
  So I will host anything and everything.
• 14:18
  I don't. I have no judgement on to it.
• 14:20
  The weirder it is, the better it is to me.
• 14:22
  You've had some weird, yeah. I love the weird shit, man.
• 14:25
  So that's kind of why we started out here with throwing the
• 14:27
  parties and doing stuff and with the stress that came with owning
• 14:31
  the club and doing stuff in the community back in California, I
• 14:34
  really didn't want to be involved in like community
• 14:37
  leadership stuff anymore. It is wildly stressful because
• 14:40
  everybody comes to you with any little problem they have with
• 14:42
  somebody. We practice prick personal
• 14:44
  responsibility and consensual kink and that ties over into the
• 14:47
  personal lives that fall in as well.
• 14:50
  I'm not going to hold your hand through your relationship.
• 14:52
  And if you broke up with your partner, I'm not going to ban
• 14:54
  them because you're upset with them at the moment.
• 14:56
  You know? You have to work through it and
• 14:58
  if you keep pushing it, I'm just going to make you both take a
• 15:00
  break out of our stuff, you know?
• 15:02
  Yeah. And a lot of people do.
• 15:03
  They expect that. And it's like the community is
• 15:05
  small. You're going to have people that
• 15:08
  you see and that you lust over, and you have a thing, and then
• 15:11
  you no longer have a thing. And you're going to have to be
• 15:14
  able to rotate those same circles and still function.
• 15:19
  And some people have a hard time with that.
• 15:22
  It's still a small community. I mean, there's a lot of us, but
• 15:24
  it's still a small community. You still.
• 15:27
  You're gonna run into these people again, so you got to play
• 15:29
  nice. You got to play nice.
• 15:31
  Your only option really if you want to stay involved in the
• 15:33
  community and it's as large as it is.
• 15:35
  It's also tight knit. Yeah, we are all close.
• 15:39
  We all know each other, even just tangentially of being in
• 15:42
  this running in the same circles.
• 15:43
  You've seen each other somewhere at something, so.
• 15:47
  I mean, Vegas is nice because we do, we have a lot of groups that
• 15:50
  are out there and that was one thing we got warned about
• 15:52
  because our place in California was with one group and that was
• 15:55
  it. If you got in trouble then there
• 15:56
  wasn't working for you. You just do it by yourself in
• 15:58
  your house or. And then there was another group
• 16:00
  that kind of splintered off, and then the two groups interacted
• 16:04
  still, but the leadership of those two groups didn't really.
• 16:06
  Yeah, I could see how that could have happened.
• 16:08
  But with all the different groups we do have, and it's like
• 16:10
  a layer of pancakes. I mean the Venn diagram is
• 16:13
  almost a full circle, but there are different groups where if
• 16:15
  you like, I don't like that person, that group, you have
• 16:17
  other options to go to. You do, but it's still the
• 16:21
  reputation is still there. Yeah, word travels fast.
• 16:23
  Oh, and God, yeah. So you kind of, I think you have
• 16:26
  to really protect your reputation and remember that
• 16:28
  when you're out there conducting yourself in any way in the
• 16:30
  public. But this is one of those things.
• 16:32
  Did you ask Veronica before you threw your first party?
• 16:35
  Oh, yeah, yeah. No, it was.
• 16:36
  You let me know. So.
• 16:37
  Going back to when we first started, I always throw a
• 16:41
  Halloween party every year. This has gone on since we were
• 16:44
  18. That's our holiday.
• 16:45
  It's. Like we have so much Halloween
• 16:48
  decoration and stuff. When we got involved in the
• 16:50
  community, I guess I got to tell that story to kind of get into
• 16:53
  the first party story. I went on a what we called a
• 16:56
  mancation with my best friends, the guys I graduated college
• 16:59
  with. And I have two degrees.
• 17:01
  I have, I have one in IT and then one in biology.
• 17:03
  So we got to go to the IT degree for these guys.
• 17:05
  And if you've ever studied anything with an IT on those,
• 17:08
  they're not exactly the most extroverted of people.
• 17:10
  They're usually the more introverted, a little more World
• 17:12
  of Warcraft, a little more dungeons, dragon style, which
• 17:15
  it's great. You know, I play World of
• 17:16
  Warcraft, I have for, you know, 20 years at this point.
• 17:19
  So we're back east of Maryland and I'm hanging out with all of
• 17:22
  these introverts except my best friend who is an extrovert.
• 17:24
  And we're at a lake house, this gorgeous lake house.
• 17:26
  And you know, there's a bar like in the middle of the lake and
• 17:29
  you could take a pontoon boat to go to this fucking dope ass bar.
• 17:31
  And all they wanted to do was hang out in the house and play
• 17:34
  board games. And we're like, fuck you guys.
• 17:36
  There's like a Bachelorette parties, let's go have fun,
• 17:38
  let's go flirt with people, let's go drink.
• 17:39
  They're like, no, we want to stay outside.
• 17:40
  And it was just it turned in to be more of a drain on things.
• 17:44
  It was still great. And I love these guys are my
• 17:45
  brothers. I love them.
• 17:46
  But I remember bitching to Veronica over text.
• 17:49
  I was like Oh my God man, one of them has a showered in like 4
• 17:52
  days. I'm I'm going nuts here I want
• 17:54
  to go home. And then I just randomly
• 17:55
  mentioned, 'cause she's always been interested in BDSM and I
• 17:58
  was like, I don't know, I don't really like that stuff, man,
• 18:01
  It's scary. But I mentioned, hey, if you
• 18:03
  wanna do some of this stuff, I'm gonna open eyes.
• 18:06
  I won't point cuz I have a problem pointing.
• 18:08
  I'm like, Oh my God, look at that.
• 18:09
  He does. I do so.
• 18:11
  Back him all the time. As soon as I sent that text, all
• 18:14
  of a sudden my phone just went bling, bling, bling, bling,
• 18:16
  bling. She's like, oh, read this
• 18:17
  article. Watch this thing Watch this
• 18:18
  video. We're just waiting.
• 18:20
  And then she was like, Oh my God, I found this website found,
• 18:22
  found this website, just randomly found this website.
• 18:25
  Oh. Yeah, we all randomly found the
• 18:26
  website 10 months ago, which was.
• 18:28
  Fetlife and so we're watching videos, we're talking about
• 18:31
  stuff and, and at that point Ronnie was talking about more
• 18:34
  sending me videos of like dominatrix with like submissive
• 18:37
  males on things. And I was like, I don't know how
• 18:39
  I feel about that. And you know, I think switches
• 18:42
  in both DS relationships type of thing, both Dom and submissive
• 18:45
  and switches in like impact type stuff are the best.
• 18:48
  I wish I could be a switch. I just I have a problem letting
• 18:50
  go of control and I don't really follow orders very well.
• 18:52
  I don't like getting hit. You know, so it's.
• 18:54
  That makes me want to fight. Yeah, the heat getting hit and
• 18:57
  all your things. OK, so.
• 18:58
  I was watching them. I was like, I don't know how
• 19:00
  feel about it, but you know, we'll fucking explore some
• 19:02
  things if you want to. But it never really went down
• 19:04
  that Ave. I think it lasted all of like 5
• 19:07
  seconds to touch my ass cheek and I was like no fucking done,
• 19:10
  done. Anyways, I digress.
• 19:12
  So Veronica found Fetlife, we both created accounts and made
• 19:16
  our profiles. And then she's like, all right,
• 19:17
  well two days after you get back there's a munch.
• 19:19
  I'm like, what the fuck is a munch?
• 19:21
  And she's like, I don't know, it's like a social.
• 19:22
  And I was like OK, explain. What a munch is though, because
• 19:24
  I have a lot of people who ask that if you don't.
• 19:26
  So munches and sloshes. They're just social get
• 19:29
  togethers with other kinky people.
• 19:30
  A munch is a place that sells food and a slosh is a place that
• 19:34
  doesn't sell food but sells alcohol.
• 19:36
  So you go and get sloshed with your friends or you go and munch
• 19:39
  on food and socialize with other kinky like minded individuals.
• 19:43
  What's wonderful about is it's in a vanilla safe setting, yes.
• 19:47
  So there's regular clothes. There's no pressure for you to
• 19:51
  do anything. It's just getting to know people
• 19:55
  in a safe vanilla setting. It hands down it is the best
• 20:00
  way. To meet somebody that reaches
• 20:01
  out to you on any type of social media platform, whether it's
• 20:05
  Tinder or it's Fetlife or it's Facebook, and they're like, hey,
• 20:08
  I want to meet you, let's go do some kinky shit and like, OK,
• 20:10
  cool, let's meet in a munch first.
• 20:11
  If they say no, that's the first big red flag.
• 20:14
  I agree with that I love going to munches it's how I built my
• 20:18
  community. That's where it starts because
• 20:20
  you meet your friend type people without the like.
• 20:22
  What are your kinks and what are you into Which yes that comes
• 20:26
  but you want to meet people who you vibe with as.
• 20:28
  Well, so we're at the munch and I'm terrified.
• 20:31
  I'm absolutely terrified because we're in a small town area.
• 20:34
  This is where I grew up, right? That I didn't really care about
• 20:37
  seeing somebody I knew growing up or seeing somebody that I
• 20:40
  might have worked with. I don't want to walk into my
• 20:41
  parents. If I walked into this munch and
• 20:43
  my mom and dad are sitting there, I was like, I can't, I
• 20:46
  don't want to do this. I don't want to do this.
• 20:47
  And we're just, we're going in and I'm so preoccupied with this
• 20:50
  thought and concept. As soon as we the the munch was
• 20:53
  at this bar and then there was a back area at the bar where we
• 20:56
  were isolated kind of away from the the vanilla's where we could
• 20:59
  talk about everything we want to talk about.
• 21:00
  And we could be as loud as we want and talk about all the
• 21:02
  kinky shit and not affect somebody else.
• 21:04
  Because that is one of the big things that a munch is you, you
• 21:06
  have to be careful what you talk about because the 17 year old
• 21:10
  barista or waitress or host doesn't necessarily need to know
• 21:13
  how many anal beads you just yanked out of somebody like a
• 21:15
  lawn mower. It's you know that might.
• 21:18
  That kind of. Spar them a little bit.
• 21:20
  But you're. Right.
• 21:21
  But it's, it's one of those things where as we walked in the
• 21:24
  back and there's double doors opened up.
• 21:26
  The Hostess of the Munch, the the lady that was running the
• 21:29
  Munch was standing there. And Veronica was like, I know
• 21:31
  you. And she's like, I know you.
• 21:33
  And I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about?
• 21:35
  I don't know anybody here. And it was like an egg timer.
• 21:38
  Just tie me down. She's fucking with me at this
• 21:40
  point cuz she's like what the hell.
• 21:42
  She's like I've been to your house, I've been to your house.
• 21:46
  I know what your bed looks like. Just all these bizarre things
• 21:49
  our. Kids and Tim's just like.
• 21:52
  And it turned out, so she was in a triad and their thirds
• 21:55
  daughter was our son's best friend.
• 21:58
  And every play that they were in, everything they've ever
• 22:00
  done, he was Captain Hook, she was Smee.
• 22:03
  It's like everything they've done.
• 22:04
  So when we would sit there for the plays, they were sitting
• 22:06
  right next to us. We had birthday parties, they
• 22:09
  were over. So they were like, they've been
• 22:11
  in my house. And it took me a good at least
• 22:13
  three minutes of just thinking and staring at her until her
• 22:16
  dinged across the room. Staring at her and then she and
• 22:19
  I were talking and I just hear and I look over.
• 22:22
  He's looking at us pointing, pointing.
• 22:24
  Pointing. Coloring.
• 22:25
  Your name? There it is.
• 22:27
  Yeah, it's. Got.
• 22:28
  It it's borderline Tourettes for me at this point.
• 22:31
  It just like runs out, But we we met another triad kid that
• 22:35
  walked in at that time. And for those that don't know, a
• 22:37
  triad is just is a throuple. It's 3.
• 22:39
  So it was a a male and two females.
• 22:41
  It was a dominant in his two submissives and they came in
• 22:44
  wearing teen fluffy shirts and they just kind of said was the
• 22:46
  the name of their little triad and they came and sat down and
• 22:48
  they were like the epitome of California did long straight
• 22:51
  hair and just very zin and laid back and very do things do
• 22:55
  things that make you happy do man.
• 22:57
  This is how you need to do it. And I was obsessed with his wife
• 23:00
  was just the most amazing person in the world and and so softly
• 23:04
  spoken. But when she did say, even
• 23:05
  though she was submissive and his submissive and submissive in
• 23:07
  nature, when she said something, everybody listened and everybody
• 23:10
  fucking shut the fuck up and was like, yes, ma'am, it just said
• 23:13
  that nature out of it. They invited us to a mass
• 23:16
  meeting, but he told Veronica out of his Oh yeah, we have a
• 23:19
  dungeon party afterwards and I didn't know what a dungeon party
• 23:22
  was at this time. I went home and I looked it up
• 23:25
  and I started watching videos on Pornhub and I was.
• 23:27
  Like bad idea. Yeah, I would.
• 23:30
  You're right. That's not.
• 23:31
  Bad idea 'cause it's not like that.
• 23:32
  What am I? Walk into and I, you know, I
• 23:35
  like weird shit. Even at that point, I still like
• 23:37
  weird shit. So we, we get dressed up and we
• 23:40
  go down and we walk in and it's a mask meeting.
• 23:42
  A mask is MAST, it's master and slaves together.
• 23:45
  It's a power exchange group. Every single city has a mask
• 23:49
  group, just like every city has a TNG group, which we'll
• 23:51
  probably talk about in a little bit.
• 23:53
  And it's usually more of a support group or a discussion
• 23:55
  group style of things. So we, we walk in, everybody's
• 23:58
  just sitting in just basic clothes.
• 24:00
  Everybody's comfortable. Nobody's like dressed up like
• 24:02
  we're going to a party and Ronnie and I are like dressed to
• 24:04
  the fucking 9. And he's like, oh, good, you're
• 24:06
  dressed up and he's in like fucking shorts and flip flops.
• 24:09
  And I'm like, and they're just drinking beers and bullshitting
• 24:12
  and talking. This is also when I met my first
• 24:14
  pet, which I didn't know what pets were at that time either.
• 24:16
  And he was a cat. I kind of fucked up at one point
• 24:18
  because I'm very curious by nature and I will ask questions
• 24:21
  that without there's not much of A filter, it just, yeah, it just
• 24:24
  hits and goes. So what's happening now is
• 24:26
  already what's happening immediately right here.
• 24:28
  But I was like, what's the difference from the pet and the
• 24:30
  furry? Are you like a furry?
• 24:31
  Like, what does that mean? And.
• 24:32
  That's a super common question though, so like, yeah.
• 24:35
  Furries wear the costume. They could still be, they could
• 24:38
  still be a dog in that sense. They can still be a pet and that
• 24:42
  is their persona. And then they put the costume on
• 24:44
  of the persona. Whereas somebody that is a pet
• 24:47
  is literally that thing. Whatever they personify as, if
• 24:51
  they're a cat, they're a cat. If they're a pup, they're a pup.
• 24:54
  Treat them as so as you would your puppy, your dog, your cat,
• 24:58
  and the more you treat them as that, the more they're going to
• 25:00
  appreciate that and love into it.
• 25:01
  If they're being a good boy and you call them a good boy and you
• 25:04
  give them a little scratch year, they're gonna.
• 25:05
  Enjoy it. You want to carry some treats
• 25:07
  around? Yeah, absolutely.
• 25:08
  Give them a treat. Usually they might have a
• 25:10
  handler with them. Yeah.
• 25:12
  OK, so. First party we rolled in, this
• 25:15
  is getting to our first party that we ever threw.
• 25:16
  So we go in there and he knows this is our first thing we've
• 25:21
  ever done, first thing we've ever seen.
• 25:22
  And he's got a Taser and he's like, I was like, oh, that's
• 25:25
  fucking cool, man. I want to tase somebody.
• 25:27
  And he's like, yeah. And he just reaches over and
• 25:28
  zaps his submissives right on the clip.
• 25:32
  She just like makes this little thing or eyeball goes this way
• 25:34
  and she goes just like it, like loved it truly.
• 25:37
  Like I hated it, but I loved it so much.
• 25:39
  Oh my God, I immediately started sweating and I'm.
• 25:41
  Like don't try that at home. Electro play is legit and takes
• 25:46
  a lot of practice. But wait, is this at the master?
• 25:48
  Is this a party? It was at his house at the Mask.
• 25:50
  OK, so the mask meeting would go about an hour.
• 25:53
  They would discuss stuff and then they just kind of rolled it
• 25:55
  into a party. It was always really small, like
• 25:57
  10-15 people at the most. It was a small house too, but he
• 26:00
  had a little backroom that was his dungeon and and most people
• 26:03
  that have a dungeon in their house, it's usually like a
• 26:05
  bedroom or it's an old office or sometimes it's a shed in the
• 26:09
  backyard that they could just kind of put stuff in and you can
• 26:11
  go back and use it. For him, it was like an old
• 26:13
  office that went off of his kitchen.
• 26:15
  So he had a Saint Andrew's cross set up a massage table, a couple
• 26:19
  chairs, just some random stuff that was in there.
• 26:21
  It wasn't a big, it was a little bit bigger than this, not much.
• 26:24
  And he puts her up on the cross facing him and he like literally
• 26:27
  looks at me dead in the eye. He goes, you ready?
• 26:28
  I'm like and it just turns with steel toe boots, just toe kicks
• 26:32
  her right in the right in the cross, right in the Hoo ha.
• 26:35
  Yeah. Was that shocking to?
• 26:36
  You. Oh, not for her?
• 26:38
  Ronnie smiled. I was like.
• 26:40
  We could do this to people. I excused myself.
• 26:43
  I visibly like sweat beads came down my face and I was like I am
• 26:46
  uncomfortable and I had to go outside and like get some air
• 26:50
  and and I kept going back in and watching more because I was like
• 26:53
  this is fucking weird. I like this but I don't I'm
• 26:55
  confused. So you were drawn to it, but I
• 26:57
  think what you've just described, I think is a moment
• 27:00
  that so many kingsters actually experienced.
• 27:01
  The exact the kicking thing takes people.
• 27:04
  I'm, I'm still not used to it. I think I've been in the scene
• 27:06
  17 years. Do you know what I mean?
• 27:08
  It's like, oh, they just got kicked.
• 27:10
  Hard, yes, hard so. And this is this is early summer
• 27:15
  around when this time went out. So with that group you had to go
• 27:19
  to a BDSM1O1, which is an introduction class that taught
• 27:22
  you the basics of what BDSM is the history on similar to what I
• 27:26
  teach like terminology, expectations of what the if you
• 27:30
  get invited to a house party. So you had to go to that class
• 27:32
  before you were allowed to go to anything else.
• 27:35
  And then you had to go to multiple discussion groups.
• 27:37
  They had at that time they had what was ADS discussion group, a
• 27:40
  power exchange group that everybody sat together for one
• 27:42
  hour and then the dominance and submissive split.
• 27:45
  And then they had talk with just submissives and just dominance
• 27:48
  and. Which is actually great.
• 27:49
  And by the way, those are the only communities I like to get
• 27:51
  involved in. I want to know that vetting is
• 27:53
  happening at that level so that everyone I play with has at
• 27:57
  least been educated a little bit.
• 27:58
  Like the biggest red flag for me personally and what I don't play
• 28:01
  with is just show up to the party and hope for the best.
• 28:05
  That and do what you want, people.
• 28:07
  Yes. The thing you want.
• 28:08
  Yeah, that's that. Explain Explain what you mean by
• 28:12
  that. Oh, go for it.
• 28:13
  So you'll have some people who will tell you, you can do
• 28:17
  whatever you want. I'll do whatever you want.
• 28:19
  Oh really? Go wash my dishes.
• 28:20
  You could get people to do that for you.
• 28:22
  Wash my dishes. Go clean my floor.
• 28:24
  Oh, you weren't particular or specific about what you wanted,
• 28:27
  and I don't even know what your hard nose are.
• 28:29
  So what if I if I want to start pulling on your fingernails?
• 28:32
  What if I want to put things underneath them?
• 28:34
  What if I want to put with needles under your toes?
• 28:36
  I mean, you have to really be specific about what you mean.
• 28:40
  And that's part of the negotiation is when you discuss
• 28:42
  your hard nose. And then you have some people
• 28:44
  are like, well, I don't know what I want, OK.
• 28:46
  And I would rather have that. 100%.
• 28:49
  Because then I pull out all my toys and we talk about them.
• 28:52
  Yeah, You know, we talk about them.
• 28:54
  I let them touch them, feel them, smell them, you know, a
• 28:57
  little sample. And anything we buy for
• 29:00
  ourselves, we try it out on ourselves.
• 29:02
  I mean, I don't go full swing because then I want to fight,
• 29:05
  but you know, I just, I just get an idea what it feels like, you
• 29:09
  know, and I'm like, OK, so if I personify that by like 10, you
• 29:13
  know, so you definitely have to be particular, especially when
• 29:17
  you don't know someone because you have some predators out
• 29:20
  there. There are predators out there
• 29:22
  that will hurt you. A lot of times people don't tell
• 29:25
  because then people are going to know that you were doing BDSM
• 29:29
  shit or that you were involved in this and you probably
• 29:31
  deserved it because you're in this.
• 29:33
  Well, you do this anyway, So what difference does it do?
• 29:36
  You see where I'm totally. So and it's and it's yeah, and
• 29:40
  it brings, it brings shame. And I think abuse, like actual
• 29:45
  abuse, is so hidden in the BDSM world because they felt they
• 29:48
  deserved it. Or maybe I wasn't clear enough.
• 29:51
  Or, you know, I said he could do anything.
• 29:54
  You know what I'm? So I 100% agree and even though
• 29:57
  everyone hates this book 50 Shades of Grey, the community
• 30:00
  was no safer or better before that book came out than it is
• 30:03
  now and I think it actually helped people at least talk
• 30:05
  about it. I think it made people a little
• 30:08
  bit safer because those of us who are in the scene now, we're
• 30:11
  like, all right, everything you saw in that movie, don't do it.
• 30:14
  You know, it's like. Brings them to the forefront and
• 30:17
  brings them out to public and gum the munches.
• 30:19
  And then we could teach them like.
• 30:20
  Here's a proper. Way to negotiate.
• 30:22
  Here's a proper way to talk about these things, and here's a
• 30:24
  way to educate yourself on those different things that you want
• 30:26
  to do. That is because so many people,
• 30:28
  the shame is what stops them from doing it.
• 30:31
  But then even if they work up the courage to join the scene,
• 30:34
  if something goes wrong, the shame is what stops people from
• 30:36
  ever admitting it like you're saying.
• 30:38
  So that party LED us to getting involved in the community and
• 30:42
  really we were in our what, what I often term is like the oh,
• 30:46
  shiny face. Everything's so shiny.
• 30:48
  Everything's great. I want to touch all these things
• 30:49
  and do all these things. I want to do it now.
• 30:51
  We're going to do it tomorrow. We're going to do it here.
• 30:52
  And just like, I want to experience everything all at the
• 30:55
  moment. And we had really good mentors
• 30:57
  at that time. We're like, slow down, take a
• 30:59
  breath. It's going to be here tomorrow.
• 31:01
  It's going to be here next week. There's a class in a month.
• 31:03
  Why don't you go down to LA? There's a class down here, Dom
• 31:06
  Com's coming into town or Kink Fest is coming up in Portland.
• 31:09
  You know, take a moment and check out these classes before
• 31:11
  you try to throw yourself headlong and.
• 31:13
  Tom is hard headed. Yeah, a bit, yeah.
• 31:16
  And I was. Frenzy Dom sub king frenzy I
• 31:19
  think takes almost everyone down in the beginning.
• 31:22
  It definitely can less play wise because I didn't really cross.
• 31:26
  I crossed one boundary that made me a little uncomfortable play
• 31:29
  and that that really slowed me down was like, oh, I really need
• 31:32
  to learn how to negotiate this better.
• 31:33
  And that was, we were both in experienced and we went in to go
• 31:36
  doing a scene and it just didn't go out the way I pictured it.
• 31:38
  And nobody got hurt, nobody got injured out of it.
• 31:40
  It just really made me pull back on that sense.
• 31:43
  I was like, Oh yeah, I definitely need to negotiate.
• 31:44
  But that's off topic. Halloween was coming up and I
• 31:48
  always have a Halloween party, but I just met all of these
• 31:50
  wild, kinky, freaky, queer, amazing fucking people.
• 31:54
  And I was like, you know what, let's throw we, I think we threw
• 31:57
  2 Halloween parties that year. We threw a vanilla one Friday.
• 32:00
  And then it was either one way or.
• 32:02
  The kink one and then the other one he went.
• 32:04
  Back-to-back. So we did.
• 32:05
  We did throw, yeah. So we did, we did, I think it
• 32:07
  was Friday, Sunday because we had to get all the furniture
• 32:09
  out. So we we decided, hey, we're
• 32:10
  going to throw a kink party. The leaders that were in the
• 32:12
  community had furniture and stuff and they were kind enough
• 32:15
  to come drop it off. And I didn't understand the time
• 32:17
  they're finding a house to do parties and was difficult at
• 32:19
  that time. But so I literally just went
• 32:21
  down the list of everybody I've met on Fetlife at this point and
• 32:24
  invited everybody. Like we had like 80 people in
• 32:26
  our house and it was a big house and it was spread out perfectly
• 32:29
  out of it. But we have this huge kink party
• 32:31
  and it was it was fucking wild. Now our one of our mentors at
• 32:35
  the time was like, you need to have this, this, this, no
• 32:37
  alcohol, none of these things. I'm like, how are you gonna have
• 32:39
  a really awesome party but no alcohol?
• 32:41
  That doesn't make any sense. Like I'm used to like basic
• 32:43
  vanilla parties. So we still allowed alcohol,
• 32:46
  didn't have a lot of the precautions that we have now at
• 32:48
  a lot of our parties and people end up having like a threesome
• 32:51
  in our kitchen and spilling like a bottle of fireball.
• 32:53
  So that's where the rule came from of for one, the kitchen is
• 32:56
  my sanctuary. When I cook, I love to cook and
• 32:59
  the kitchen is my sanctuary. Don't fuck with my kitchen and
• 33:02
  it's still today. Don't go in my kitchen unless
• 33:04
  you have need to be in there. Don't go in my kitchen.
• 33:07
  And I went in there the next morking knowing that they had a
• 33:09
  threesome and it was sticky on the floor.
• 33:11
  And I was like, God, yeah, all right, yeah.
• 33:14
  So that's where that rule came in, and people were like, what
• 33:16
  do you mean no sex? Who did that?
• 33:18
  And we're like, every time there's a rule, every time
• 33:21
  there's a warning put on a box, what is it for?
• 33:23
  Yeah, we might have. Freaking did it.
• 33:25
  One minor incident where somebody did fire play.
• 33:28
  We wasn't nearly as knowledgeable about it as he
• 33:31
  told us he was. The young girl at the end had a
• 33:33
  small scar from they did that fire play down the line.
• 33:36
  She didn't have a problem with any of it, but the leadership
• 33:38
  didn't. They're like, see, I told you,
• 33:39
  you need these things. And I am wildly thankful that
• 33:43
  they were all there at the time to kind of keep eyes on things
• 33:46
  and show me make sure things didn't get out of hand and took
• 33:48
  carried away because it very easily could have could have
• 33:50
  gone the wrong way. On this point, what are your
• 33:52
  rules now for alcohol at your parties?
• 33:54
  You can drink at the party, but once you start to drink, you
• 33:57
  can't play within BDSM. We do things that can be
• 33:59
  dangerous depending on what level of stuff that you're doing
• 34:02
  and any time that you can be intoxicated or inebriated in
• 34:06
  some sense, even with marijuana, I don't feel that it's safe to
• 34:10
  practice BDSM and I don't care if you do it all the time at
• 34:12
  your house, that's fine. Go do it at your house.
• 34:14
  But you're at a public space in a sense.
• 34:16
  You're in my home. I don't want that.
• 34:18
  So we have bracelets that go on people to come into the parties.
• 34:21
  When you have the bracelet on, BDSM is fine.
• 34:23
  Everything's on the board. You negotiate it, you do it,
• 34:25
  you're responsible for yourself. I am putting my trust in you
• 34:28
  that you have educated yourself and gone down this path until
• 34:31
  you prove me otherwise. Once you want to drink, you cut
• 34:33
  the bracelet off and you go have drinks.
• 34:35
  I have staff that are walking around the party called dungeon
• 34:37
  monitors that are watching, and if anybody without a bracelet is
• 34:40
  playing, they immediately get escorted out of the party.
• 34:43
  It's not like, hey, you can't do that.
• 34:45
  You've already been warned. You've already been told, you've
• 34:46
  already read the rules online, you've read the rules in person,
• 34:49
  you've been told in person. There's no mistaking of I didn't
• 34:52
  know. We make it very clear.
• 34:53
  So if somebody does break that rule, they just get escorted out
• 34:56
  and they don't get to come back. I've been through your vetting
• 34:58
  process. It's a long form.
• 35:00
  There are trick questions in it where you have to go answer
• 35:03
  hidden answers, and I read and I read the whole thing and I was
• 35:07
  still getting them wrong. I was like, damn, I really know
• 35:09
  this. Off it's like, I don't think
• 35:11
  it's as bad as it was in the past.
• 35:12
  Anyway, OK, so the rules exist for a reason.
• 35:15
  You've no sex in the kitchen. Any other rules that exist in
• 35:18
  your house? There's a few.
• 35:20
  The biggest one is don't be a Dick.
• 35:21
  That is the biggest one. I like that.
• 35:23
  I feel like that's a life rule, not just a cathedral rule.
• 35:27
  I was just trying to visualize the rules as we come down.
• 35:28
  Obviously rule 1 is don't be a Dick obeying that.
• 35:31
  You're gonna have a good time, you're gonna have fun.
• 35:32
  Obviously simple things like no hard drugs.
• 35:35
  This is not that kind of party. If you think that this is going
• 35:37
  to be some type of rave, some wild thing with, you know,
• 35:40
  flashing lights and bouncing music constantly in every room,
• 35:42
  you're going to be disappointed. You know there there's a big
• 35:45
  socialization area downstairs. We have play for everybody in
• 35:48
  any sense of it throughout the house.
• 35:50
  The garage gets opened up. There's massage tables that are
• 35:52
  out for things like needles play or wax play or fire cupping or
• 35:55
  just massage. You know, there's different
• 35:57
  kinds of Saint Andrew's crosses, whipping posts, spanking
• 36:00
  benches, cages for those that want to just kind of sit there
• 36:03
  and watch play and or be a cup or whatever they need.
• 36:06
  We have rope areas with suspension rigs and different
• 36:08
  types of floor, you know, rigging and and tying.
• 36:11
  So we try to open it up as broad of play as we can imagine that's
• 36:14
  out of it. And if you want to see if you've
• 36:17
  never seen anything, just get up there and watch, go go to the
• 36:19
  different rooms and observe. And then no firearms.
• 36:21
  It seems like common sense. It really should.
• 36:24
  Like, I probably shouldn't bring a loaded gun to, you know, some
• 36:26
  party, but every year I get at least one.
• 36:28
  I could see that being common sense in California, but maybe
• 36:31
  there are some other states where it's very common to bring
• 36:34
  your firearm everywhere, so I could see why that would need to
• 36:37
  be a rule. But we're gun owners, Yeah, You
• 36:39
  know, And it's one of those things where we keep ours locked
• 36:42
  up and they're secure, you know, when they're we're in our house
• 36:44
  and we keep them locked up, secure.
• 36:45
  But if I was gonna go to somebody's house, even in like
• 36:48
  Texas, where it's like the more open laws, I would still ask
• 36:52
  before leaving in your car, walking in or leave it in my
• 36:55
  car. But when you go shopping at the
• 36:56
  mall in Texas, there are people with guns.
• 36:58
  So I could see how if you're going to the mall, you also
• 37:01
  might think, oh, I'll just show up to the party.
• 37:03
  Not saying it's right, just that it could be it.
• 37:05
  OK sorry. So first party you throw your
• 37:07
  Halloween party. Yeah.
• 37:08
  And then two days later we threw our vanilla Halloween party and
• 37:10
  that was the last Videla party I've ever thrown.
• 37:12
  The difference in respect was astounding.
• 37:16
  For one, the respect of the space, like, you know, most of
• 37:19
  our friends, we were in a small town in in rural California
• 37:22
  where it's very red, it's very country, it's very Bud Light.
• 37:25
  And the just the beer bottle tops just thrown everywhere in
• 37:28
  cigarette butts, just thrown everywhere.
• 37:29
  And we're not smokers. But if you want to smoke,
• 37:31
  there's a smoker area, you know, go outside and smoke.
• 37:33
  But they just discarded. Disrespectful.
• 37:35
  You didn't realize how disrespectful people are in a
• 37:38
  vanilla setting, whereas in a kink setting, everybody is so
• 37:42
  thrilled to have a place, then they throw their things away.
• 37:45
  Or when you're shutting down the party, people are like, what do
• 37:48
  you need? Yeah.
• 37:49
  And they, they come around and they help, you know, clean the
• 37:52
  space and move furniture back and things that we need.
• 37:55
  You know, we usually have a takedown crew anyway, but it's
• 37:58
  wonderful not to have to walk around and clean up after.
• 38:00
  People 100%. So.
• 38:03
  So that party, yeah, that was the last vanilla party as far as
• 38:06
  our first party here goes. So there's things that I've
• 38:10
  always had in place when we would do our parties.
• 38:12
  Like there's always a registration table that's off to
• 38:14
  the side from the party. Like if you come to our house
• 38:15
  out of it and you come in the front door, it's sequestered
• 38:18
  away from any type of party play that's going on.
• 38:20
  So somebody that's checking in doesn't see anything that's out
• 38:23
  there. They get to see the littles.
• 38:25
  You know, yeah, that's it. They get to see the littles.
• 38:27
  People color. It Yeah, and having a good time.
• 38:29
  Up there, if it's a small party and the play is only upstairs
• 38:33
  and it's only socialization downstairs, I have one DM on and
• 38:36
  two hour shifts. If there's play both up and down
• 38:39
  stairs, I have two DMS on at any given time because one's
• 38:41
  upstairs, 1's downstairs and they'll just kind of roam around
• 38:44
  and do their stuff. Aside from that is just kind of
• 38:46
  the behind the scenes type of stuff of like the setup crew,
• 38:49
  the breakdown crew, getting the house arranged.
• 38:51
  Like we have to move all the furniture and get things like
• 38:54
  shifted with the couches and then set up some of the Saint
• 38:56
  Andrew's crosses or all the furniture.
• 38:59
  We have a lot of furniture aside from our vanilla furniture.
• 39:01
  We have a lot of kink furniture and that's we don't want people.
• 39:04
  To be bored, yeah. So nobody's yelling beige at our
• 39:07
  house, so definitely not. There is so many rooms, there is
• 39:11
  so much and I haven't even been into your garage now that
• 39:13
  you've. Yeah, we got 5 Playstations set
• 39:16
  up in the garage to be able to do so cuz it's a big three car
• 39:18
  garage because of how I am and I do a lot of woodworking and I
• 39:21
  built almost all the furniture that we own.
• 39:24
  All my stuff folds up into the walls or it gets stored and
• 39:27
  stacked underneath each other or behind shelves.
• 39:29
  So we have curtains kind of covering everything in there.
• 39:31
  So when you come in, it doesn't look like a garage.
• 39:33
  I mean, obviously you know, you're in a garage, but yes,
• 39:35
  like we put insulation up on the garage doors and everything
• 39:38
  closes out. We have colored lighting and
• 39:40
  everything goes in there. But it's it's nice space.
• 39:41
  I've seen pictures I need to, I don't know.
• 39:43
  And I've been to your house since you've put this in.
• 39:45
  It's just there are so many other spaces to explore.
• 39:48
  Like that's how big we're. Talking.
• 39:49
  That's a big yeah. I want to talk a little bit
• 39:51
  about from throwing your first kingy Halloween party in
• 39:54
  California to, I mean, I think it's interesting to note you're
• 39:57
  talking about this small town. So this is happening all over
• 40:00
  America. Yeah, every every town has king
• 40:03
  communities. I know that even the small those
• 40:05
  towns, there might be like at least four people out of 200
• 40:08
  that there are people out there. It's just about finding each
• 40:10
  other. Stuff is happening and people
• 40:12
  are willing to drive. So you're getting a large
• 40:14
  catchment area coming into the city just to experience this.
• 40:17
  So yeah, you're kind of never really alone with it.
• 40:20
  Like where we were, they only did something.
• 40:22
  What every? Six months, yeah.
• 40:24
  The munches were extra important, Yeah.
• 40:26
  It also made it a little more clicky in that sense, but still,
• 40:29
  that's what made people get out there and meet others, because
• 40:32
  you're not going to get invited to anything.
• 40:34
  You'd have to wait for the six month party in order to do
• 40:36
  something that was cool. So yeah, I think it's definitely
• 40:39
  everywhere. I have a question and I get this
• 40:41
  a lot. Sometimes the king communities
• 40:43
  are known for being a little bit clicky and I personally don't
• 40:46
  think it's on purpose. It's sort of like when you're
• 40:48
  meeting the same people week over week, month over month.
• 40:50
  You form a close friend group and then when new people join it
• 40:54
  could be a little intimidating for the new person to show up.
• 40:57
  What advice do you have for any new person showing up who feels
• 41:00
  like a little self-conscious or socially awkward?
• 41:02
  Do you have any tips and tricks for that person?
• 41:05
  Talk to your event host, talk to the munch organizers mainly, you
• 41:08
  know, and the community leaders that are out there.
• 41:10
  If you are going to your first munch or you've been to 3 or 4
• 41:13
  munches and you've never really been able to click because
• 41:15
  you're just super shy, send us a message.
• 41:17
  Send a message out to them and say, hey, I'm really shy.
• 41:19
  I have a difficult time initiating conversation.
• 41:22
  But I am interested in these things, you know, and we can sit
• 41:26
  you with somebody of your same age, genre, the same gender.
• 41:30
  I'm not going to be a matchmaker.
• 41:32
  I'm not going to, you know, link you up with somebody to to be a
• 41:34
  play partner, but if you're an older male, I will sit you next
• 41:37
  to other older males. If you are looking for littles
• 41:40
  and age regression play, I will sit you next to the other
• 41:42
  littles and introduce you to those people that that are have
• 41:44
  those like minded kinks you know and then it's on you at that
• 41:47
  point to initiate contact and conversation and discuss.
• 41:50
  Things, yeah. You're not like a life coach to
• 41:52
  teach people how to create that type.
• 41:54
  I often connection, yeah. I often get people that were
• 41:56
  like, hey, I'm looking for this kind of person.
• 41:58
  I'm like, I am not a matchmaker. Yeah, I absolutely know somebody
• 42:01
  that you're talking about, but I'm not, I'm just not a
• 42:03
  matchmaker. It's just not my job and there's
• 42:05
  so much other stuff that we have to do and go through with it
• 42:07
  that it doesn't mean I don't do it when I have friends and I'm
• 42:10
  like, you need to meet this person now.
• 42:11
  Yeah, after a while. And I, you know, when I know
• 42:14
  people, I trust people. But yeah, reach out to your
• 42:16
  event coordinators and they will sit you down with other people.
• 42:18
  You know, if you're under 35, there's a TNG group in every
• 42:22
  single city. And what does TNG stand for?
• 42:24
  TNG is the Next generation. We're a bunch of fucking nerds.
• 42:27
  So Star Trek, the Next Generation, Star Trek.
• 42:29
  Every single city that has any kink group or any type of kink
• 42:33
  group has a TNG group as well that has as TNG leaders.
• 42:35
  If you are over 35, leave them the fuck alone.
• 42:38
  Don't go. If you're a 50 year old single
• 42:40
  dude, don't go there and just sit at the table and pray on
• 42:43
  these these 20 year olds. Let them fucking be.
• 42:45
  Let them do what they want to do.
• 42:46
  I'm 46, I don't know what they do at these munches.
• 42:50
  I I imagine they're out there playing hacky sack and frisbee
• 42:52
  and standing in weird antisocial circles not talking to each
• 42:55
  other because you know, that's what kids do.
• 42:57
  Let them be, let them go out to the whole thing.
• 42:59
  My submissive is 26. That's a big age gap.
• 43:02
  That's a big age difference. On to it.
• 43:03
  If they want to go to to a TNG bunch, then that's good.
• 43:07
  They're 26, they can go if they want me to go with them, I can
• 43:09
  go as their partner, I can go as an accompanied person, but I
• 43:12
  can't go by myself. So it gives them a place to meet
• 43:15
  other people, like minded people that are still within the same
• 43:18
  age range. Because often and as a community
• 43:20
  leader, one thing I've seen so often is older dudes hitting on
• 43:24
  younger feminine presenting people.
• 43:26
  It's constant and it's non-stop all the time and creepy.
• 43:29
  It is. It's very creepy, you know, and
• 43:30
  especially as you get into like your mid 50s and your early 60s
• 43:33
  and you're still still hitting on 21 year olds.
• 43:36
  It's like. I do see it a lot too.
• 43:37
  And it's, it's one of those things, what are you going to
• 43:39
  do, except maybe try if it gets intense, you got to pull them
• 43:42
  aside and be like. I've had four now within the
• 43:44
  community that repeated talks and I'm a firm believer that
• 43:49
  just about everybody can be educated and can act like grown
• 43:52
  ass adults. I give multiple opportunities,
• 43:54
  you know, sit down and explain why the behavior is bad and I
• 43:57
  explain how the behavior was bad.
• 43:59
  And I give them an opportunity, just enough rope to kind of hang
• 44:01
  themselves on it. And the next party, if they do
• 44:03
  it again, I immediately pull them aside.
• 44:05
  And this time, instead of in private, this time, it is now in
• 44:07
  public. Like, hey, I told you about
• 44:08
  this, you can't do that. I need you to go apologize to
• 44:10
  this person right now. And if the behavior corrects at
• 44:13
  that point, then it corrects and we can go through with that.
• 44:16
  If it doesn't, then this isn't a business.
• 44:18
  This isn't some type of public entity.
• 44:20
  Onto it. I'm just going to ask you not to
• 44:22
  fucking come around. Yeah, and you have that power
• 44:24
  then to stop them from coming around to your parties.
• 44:26
  Yeah, you know, so it's, it's one of those things where it's
• 44:29
  the greater good for my opinion. I I want to protect the most
• 44:32
  amount of people that come into our our community, our home, our
• 44:34
  life. And if I get a dozen complaints
• 44:37
  about the same person, that's a problem.
• 44:39
  Well, yeah, that's a huge problem that ultimately does
• 44:42
  become your responsibility then, to make sure they're not coming
• 44:44
  into the community anymore. Trying to avoid and not have to
• 44:47
  deal with anymore, but it seems like I've fallen right back into
• 44:50
  the pattern again, yeah? So.
• 44:52
  Can't help it. You can like, move cities, but
• 44:54
  you're still gonna end up being the same person no matter what
• 44:57
  city you're in. What is that?
• 44:58
  No matter where you go, there you are there.
• 45:00
  You are and that's been a big change for him too, because he's
• 45:02
  always believed that everybody's teachable until we found an
• 45:05
  unteachable at our other club. We found an unteachable and he
• 45:09
  knew how to like move the line. Well, you said I couldn't do
• 45:13
  that, but you didn't say I couldn't do that, you know, And
• 45:15
  it was like, and, and it just got to the point where, you
• 45:18
  know, we would have new people show up and then those people
• 45:21
  wouldn't come back anymore because of that one person.
• 45:24
  And so Jim put a rule and you put a thing in with him was
• 45:27
  like, OK, you cannot do this if they are below this age, leave
• 45:31
  them alone and then turn around. He was good for a minute and
• 45:34
  then he turned around and did it.
• 45:35
  And Jim was like, OK, that's it. And he finally, he finally
• 45:38
  banned him from coming to stuff. But it was like it really upset
• 45:42
  him that he wasn't able to teach this person.
• 45:45
  And it's like, it's not about you teaching that person.
• 45:47
  That person knew damn well they just were going to toe that line
• 45:51
  and and move it as much as possible and, and those are
• 45:54
  dangerous people. Some people just have predatory
• 45:56
  behavior and that makes them not teachable.
• 45:59
  OK, so you honed this skill over time then?
• 46:02
  Like 15 years, yeah. Yeah, so how did you start?
• 46:05
  You go from throwing your first kinky Halloween party to opening
• 46:09
  what was it, a fetish club? At the first mass meeting we
• 46:11
  went to we met and at the Munch we met another.
• 46:15
  Couple. Another couple that turned into
• 46:16
  He's one of my closest friends in life.
• 46:18
  Still to this day, even different states, we're still
• 46:20
  very close friends. They had a large home.
• 46:22
  We had a large home. We would throw parties.
• 46:24
  Like once a month we throw a big party.
• 46:26
  I wanted to keep throwing these parties.
• 46:27
  I had such a good time, but I wanted to keep doing it.
• 46:29
  So they would throw one at their house and the next month we'd
• 46:31
  both throw one at our house. And these parties were free.
• 46:33
  Yeah, we weren't charging it. We weren't charging, it was.
• 46:35
  We didn't know any better. OK, better.
• 46:37
  We just wanted to have a great party, Yeah.
• 46:39
  And then somebody was like, you guys need to be charging people
• 46:43
  for these parties to come to because now you're not waiting
• 46:45
  six months. We were.
• 46:47
  Sitting in a hot tub, it was, and it was the four of us.
• 46:49
  And then the fifth guy was an attorney and he was like, you
• 46:53
  really need to. We're like, yeah, we should
• 46:54
  probably charge. We'd talk about that forever
• 46:56
  because we would spend 4 to $500 per party absolutely, just to
• 46:59
  buying the food or buying stuff. We would do the live sushi
• 47:02
  platters where you have a naked model on the bottom, banana
• 47:05
  leaves covered with sushi, and everybody eats the sushi off.
• 47:07
  Roll the banana leaf off until you have a naked model on the
• 47:10
  table, which was fantastic. Bring.
• 47:11
  Those back or Yeah. We did.
• 47:13
  One just expensive. Do it again, yeah.
• 47:16
  They're awesome and they're fun, but we went back and forth
• 47:19
  throwing at parties for at least a couple years.
• 47:22
  We would do this. And when we were going through
• 47:24
  this stuff and we were sitting in a hot tub and it was the two
• 47:27
  couples, myself, Veronica and my best friend, his ex-wife now and
• 47:31
  then this that's was he's we found out at this time that he
• 47:33
  was an attorney and he's like, you really need to charge.
• 47:36
  And Jason and I were like, yeah, we should get our own place, you
• 47:38
  know, rent some type of spot for it.
• 47:39
  But then we started hashing out the details, just kind of like
• 47:41
  joking around the hot tub. It came into the legalities of
• 47:44
  stuff and where we live in California and like, well, how
• 47:46
  do we get around this stuff? He was like, well, I'm an
• 47:49
  attorney and, and it just kind of like it buried down into it
• 47:52
  to where a month later we all sat down.
• 47:55
  We're like, fuck it, man. We spent so much money doing
• 47:57
  this at our house. We could basically pay for the
• 48:00
  either mortgage if we bought the place or the rental costs on it,
• 48:02
  just how much we spend already. So we took out a loan and we
• 48:06
  found a place, took nine months to find the right place and get
• 48:09
  around some of the the caveats that we had because it was small
• 48:12
  town and I was very open about what I was looking for, what we
• 48:15
  were gonna use it for. And since it was very
• 48:17
  conservative type of area, I got blacklisted immediately.
• 48:20
  So where my phone number was already on the list.
• 48:22
  And when I would call, they're like, hey, we know who you are.
• 48:24
  We're not. We don't have anything for you.
• 48:25
  Oh damn, that's kind of scary. Yeah, it sucked.
• 48:29
  Yeah, it sucks. That's what it is.
• 48:30
  It's like no one was coming for you, but they were also not
• 48:32
  showing you places. Yeah.
• 48:34
  Yeah, absolutely. We got around it by using a a
• 48:37
  residence. We found a house.
• 48:39
  We we rented a a big house in the middle of an avocado orchard
• 48:43
  that had so much ample parking in the middle because of all the
• 48:46
  vehicles they had to use to harvest the avocados out.
• 48:49
  And it was in the middle of like 10 acres way up in the in the
• 48:51
  foothills of California, overlooking like everything.
• 48:54
  You could even see the ocean way off at a distance on it.
• 48:56
  It was gorgeous house, but it was perfect for throwing parting
• 48:59
  because even if we were super loud, we're in the middle of an
• 49:01
  orchard, nobody's going to care. And I would still mind
• 49:04
  blowingly. I would have like because we
• 49:06
  were near a college near in their Cal Poly, we would have
• 49:09
  young single females that would come out here by themselves
• 49:12
  driving up this long dark lonely Rd. covered in just avocado
• 49:17
  trees. Couldn't have been any more
• 49:18
  creepier if I tried to make it that way like Halloween style.
• 49:21
  They would come up by themselves and then come up into the house
• 49:24
  and attend the 101 and I was like, I would have never, I'm a
• 49:27
  six foot two 255 LB man. I would have never been that
• 49:31
  brave to come through and these these young girls just came out
• 49:34
  hard charging. I would have.
• 49:35
  Done the same thing, have done similar.
• 49:38
  Things. So yeah, we found the place.
• 49:40
  That was in 2016. It was.
• 49:43
  Yeah, cuz we shut down, I think maybe a year before Covic, cuz
• 49:47
  Covic would have took us out. The year of We shut down
• 49:51
  February of. Cuz we were living.
• 49:53
  Yeah, we shut down COVID. Four Yeah, right before COVID.
• 49:57
  And that kind of led into how you asked before about how do we
• 49:59
  pay for a lot of that stuff? A lot of it came out of our
• 50:02
  pockets in the beginning and it was expensive.
• 50:04
  The the BDSM community in itself tends to not have a lot of money
• 50:08
  when it was out there. So released out there and I
• 50:11
  found it nationwide, it tends to be the case.
• 50:13
  There generally isn't a ton of money when you're when you're
• 50:15
  doing that. We had a lot of, we had a lot of
• 50:17
  complaints about just the cost. And at that time it was, it was
• 50:20
  20 bucks to come to a party, half price off for students and
• 50:23
  felt like most of our people are students.
• 50:24
  So we're only getting 10 bucks. And we would have been lucky
• 50:27
  sometimes if if 15 people showed up towards the end of the the
• 50:30
  time period that we were running that and that and that's a
• 50:32
  little. And $20 is reasonable.
• 50:34
  I think so too it. Was like, you know, some of the
• 50:36
  people that were complaining about it and I'm just like, or
• 50:39
  they'd want to volunteer and they're well, I don't want to do
• 50:42
  that or I don't want to do that or I don't, they didn't want to
• 50:44
  do registration or they didn't want to do kitchen.
• 50:46
  They just wanted to be a dungeon monitor so they can walk around,
• 50:49
  look at everything and it's like, it's the need.
• 50:51
  Or be in charge. Yeah.
• 50:52
  Or be in charge. It's like it's it's what we need
• 50:55
  at this time. So let me.
• 50:56
  Explain the definition of volunteer to you.
• 50:58
  It's not. Do what you want for two hours
• 51:01
  or however long. Yeah, you know.
• 51:03
  So in the beginning of the first few months, everything was fine.
• 51:05
  We were getting 50-60 people showing up at all the parties.
• 51:08
  So they, you know, we were open Friday, Saturday and Sunday and
• 51:11
  we were getting a consistent run of people there showing up.
• 51:13
  It was novel, it was new, right? Everybody was like, oh, this is
• 51:15
  great, this is amazing. We finally have our own space.
• 51:17
  And we it was, it was great. We didn't have to struggle with
• 51:19
  any of it. And then it took a massive
• 51:21
  taper, like really fast. Because too much of A thing.
• 51:24
  Yeah. So we wanted to keep the space
• 51:26
  open. So we started coming out with
• 51:27
  different ideas of different things to do, trying to have
• 51:29
  niche parties like littles party or, you know, specific like rope
• 51:33
  events or teach different classes.
• 51:35
  And and this is where I kind of got into the fact where I
• 51:37
  started to meet a number of different high, high level
• 51:40
  instructors to come through and teach things like whips or
• 51:43
  hanging or knife play. We had one to do consensual non
• 51:46
  consent classes, amazing nominal classes.
• 51:50
  We still weren't making enough money.
• 51:51
  We, you know, all of the stuff that was getting provided, but
• 51:53
  we were still, we would have these guys come out of town and
• 51:56
  come up from LA or in state from a different area and then we'd
• 51:59
  have like 15 people show up and that's like, guys are killing
• 52:01
  me. One of our friends suggested
• 52:03
  throwing a swinger party. And I was like, the swingers in
• 52:05
  BDSM are two different worlds. They are.
• 52:08
  Swingers say BDSM people are gross because like, why would
• 52:10
  you do that to somebody? And then BDSM people are like,
• 52:13
  don't touch me with your organs. That's just disgusting.
• 52:16
  It was just, it was weird. So they introduced us to one of
• 52:20
  their friends who who hosted a number of swinger events all the
• 52:23
  time. And I was like, you know, fuck
• 52:25
  it. I definitely don't qualify or
• 52:27
  classify as a swinger. I don't like having sex with
• 52:29
  strange people. It's, it's a build up for me on
• 52:31
  things. I had one one night stand when I
• 52:34
  was like 17 and a little over 17 shortly before I met Veronica
• 52:38
  and I just, I felt so gross with it and I hated it and I've never
• 52:40
  gone. Down This wasn't for you.
• 52:41
  Yeah, so we were like, fuck it, let's do it.
• 52:44
  And we brought them in and they did all of the advertising and
• 52:48
  all of the promotion from it. And we had short of 80 people at
• 52:52
  this house to throw a swinger party.
• 52:53
  Now keep in mind is that swingers have money.
• 52:56
  Yes. They're willing to pay money
• 52:59
  like single guys to get into a swinger party.
• 53:02
  They'll pay 80 to $100 on 50. Oh, I've seen 200.
• 53:05
  Yeah, on the premise that maybe I'll get, you know, I'll get
• 53:09
  laid. The way we've always done it is
• 53:11
  we do a balance. We don't just let all these
• 53:13
  'cause this ends up being a sausage party, you know, just
• 53:16
  all, yeah, you got all this money, but now you just have all
• 53:18
  these swinging Dicks walking around mad because they can't,
• 53:21
  you know, they can't get laid. So once we get single women sign
• 53:24
  up, then we would let the single men sign up and and keep that
• 53:26
  balance going. Or if we had a triad sign up and
• 53:28
  there was two women and one male, we sometimes get 2 males,
• 53:31
  1 one woman. It was an eye opening
• 53:33
  experience. Oh.
• 53:34
  Because their ideas of consent are not the same as BDSM.
• 53:38
  And so we had dungeon monitors walking around.
• 53:40
  They're like, I, I don't know how to do this.
• 53:42
  I don't know how to monitor this.
• 53:44
  Because, you know, BDSM party, somebody will come to you.
• 53:48
  They don't touch you. They're like, do you hug?
• 53:49
  You know, they ask permission before they even shake your
• 53:52
  hand. It's they want to know how you
• 53:54
  wish to be greeted. Swingers is not the same.
• 53:56
  They they touch you. Yeah, they touch you.
• 53:59
  They like, rub your bag. We're like, oh, do you mind if.
• 54:01
  But you're already doing it. So you didn't even ask me first.
• 54:04
  You're already doing it. I'd just stop working, you know?
• 54:06
  Cuz I would they would just come up you wearing this right way
• 54:08
  and immediately come. Up and my gosh.
• 54:10
  And I think that might stem where I just don't like people
• 54:12
  touching me in general. But now I really don't like
• 54:15
  people touching me. He's been burned.
• 54:17
  It's all. Yeah, he stopped wearing kilts
• 54:19
  because they would just go right up under his kilt.
• 54:21
  Now we all suffer because of this.
• 54:24
  He looks magnificent. At this party, a couple of our
• 54:28
  DMS came downstairs. They're like you need to go
• 54:30
  upstairs because the way the house was, it was a Tri level
• 54:32
  house. It was 3/3 levels, but it kind
• 54:35
  of went up along a slope of the house.
• 54:36
  So we had a basement that was great for like the dungeon
• 54:39
  because it was a basement and it was like stonework and it was a
• 54:42
  basement. And then the the primary level
• 54:44
  and then you went upstairs into the master bedroom, which was
• 54:47
  the big and spread out had a balcony and it was gigantic,
• 54:52
  absolute gigantic bathroom with all tile everywhere.
• 54:54
  So any type of waterworks play BDSM we.
• 54:57
  Were able to put 12 people in the shower.
• 54:59
  How big the shower? Was this sounds amazing.
• 55:01
  Fantastic, what unbelievably great find to have this place.
• 55:04
  So I go upstairs and and mind you, I've I've never seen
• 55:08
  anything like this stuff. I'm even with porn.
• 55:10
  I don't really it was never like my genre to watch stuff.
• 55:12
  So we had this huge bondage bed that was built out of solid
• 55:15
  steel, like the whole thing was steel out of it.
• 55:17
  So you I mean, you could suspend as many people as you wanted to
• 55:20
  suspend on it. It's not going.
• 55:21
  It won't even budget you. Really did invest a lot like I
• 55:24
  know how much those beds cost that's.
• 55:27
  Yeah, so we had a sex swing set up.
• 55:28
  The Sibian was in there, we had a Saint Andrew's cross, a
• 55:31
  spanking bench or a fucking bench that that night.
• 55:33
  And you know, multiple areas to play.
• 55:35
  And when I first walk in the door, people are strewn all over
• 55:38
  the floor. There are there's 2 girls on the
• 55:40
  Sibian. I don't even know how that
• 55:42
  physically was working on to it, but I think 1 was just making
• 55:44
  out with the other while one was riding it.
• 55:45
  Three dudes around her, multiple blow jobs happening in two
• 55:48
  different directions. There's somebody they pulled the
• 55:51
  swing all the way flat. So they were now getting spit
• 55:54
  roasted on the, on the swing back and forth.
• 55:58
  The spanking bench was getting the same thing, little Eiffel
• 56:00
  Tower happening. And then there's people strewn
• 56:02
  out along the floors onto it. There's four couples on the bed
• 56:06
  in different areas with one sitting on the corner getting a
• 56:08
  blowjob. It was a little mixed couple,
• 56:10
  little cute, adorable little mixed couple, very fit.
• 56:13
  He just like leans back all the sudden and she's like, yeah.
• 56:15
  And he's like just. And you can't really hear
• 56:17
  anything cuz the music pumping and loud and everything.
• 56:19
  And all I could smell is like just Dick and fucking rubber.
• 56:22
  And I just like immediately going over to try to fucking
• 56:24
  open windows as I'm stepping over people.
• 56:26
  There's nowhere fucking walking step, so he like slides himself
• 56:29
  between like fucking rows of hot dogs.
• 56:32
  Man slides himself up the bed. She I'm sorry, she slides
• 56:35
  herself up the bed and he just reaches up to the top of the
• 56:38
  because there's like monkey bars on the top of this bondage bed
• 56:40
  and just lifts his legs up and just over all these people have
• 56:44
  a sex drops down on one foot and grabs a condom out of the plate
• 56:48
  that was on this table over there, puts in his mouth.
• 56:50
  It was almost like it was just trajectory of aiming and then
• 56:53
  like leaves up, grabs it and then monkey bars back over,
• 56:56
  drops on a bed, takes a condom off and they start having like
• 56:58
  immediately fall into having sex.
• 57:00
  James expression, he goes. Like how does nobody reacting to
• 57:08
  this? This can't be the natural thing
• 57:10
  to happening out here. I'm.
• 57:11
  Like, oh God, but and all of us kinky folk, you know, be some
• 57:14
  folk, we're just like, yeah, it's the most bizarre people.
• 57:18
  Jim, you just had me so caught in your.
• 57:19
  I was like, so I was like, I couldn't even react.
• 57:21
  I'm thinking, you know, when you go therapy maybe for the first
• 57:24
  time, they're like, do you have any core memories?
• 57:25
  I feel like you just shared an adult core memories.
• 57:28
  I was like, damn, you had me so captivated.
• 57:30
  I'm like I. Wish I had been there.
• 57:33
  It was, it was wild, man. And it also came where we had a
• 57:36
  rule of don't stick your Dick in.
• 57:37
  The salsa came from the same party because we had this big
• 57:40
  round table that would like spin and open and stuff and we had
• 57:42
  all the food. Now this whole spread and
• 57:44
  charcuterie boards and you know, presentation is big for me in a
• 57:48
  sense. And like, yeah, it's a big deal
• 57:50
  for me in that sense. So there was a bowl of salsa,
• 57:53
  and this one guy was. Very tall. 6/9 or 6/10 he was
• 57:56
  very, very tall young man, but his his donger was like a little
• 58:01
  above the table and he kind of turned and just drug his Dick
• 58:04
  right through the salsa and and it didn't react or nothing,
• 58:07
  didn't say anything. He's just standing there and
• 58:09
  he's talking to me and I'm just, all I can do is look at his Dong
• 58:12
  is just dripping off and I'm like, did you you had to feel
• 58:16
  that? Like what do you mean?
• 58:17
  I'm like, you just drug your Dick through my salsa.
• 58:19
  Which is which changed that rule where you couldn't be Nikki from
• 58:23
  from this point on, no Nikki because you had to freaking do
• 58:27
  that. And he thought, he thought it
• 58:28
  was so funny. He's like, right?
• 58:30
  Now there's no salsa. Now there's no.
• 58:31
  Salsa yeah, now there's no salsa, but I want that on AT
• 58:33
  shirt like don't drag your. Don't stick your Dick in the
• 58:37
  salsa. Yeah, it it I.
• 58:40
  Might put that on AT shirt for. Us raising our boys, especially
• 58:44
  when you have two boys, it's difficult sometimes to get
• 58:47
  things to stick in their head and to remember like important
• 58:50
  rules and important things that go on and especially when
• 58:52
  they're young. So I I would come up with
• 58:54
  shocking ways to like say things, especially when they're
• 58:57
  coming in like when they were like 12 and 13 one of the rules
• 58:59
  was like don't stick your Dick in crazy They're like, what does
• 59:02
  that mean? And then I would get to explain
• 59:03
  it like how. How?
• 59:05
  How would you explain that? Get to know somebody before you
• 59:07
  try to have sex with them, because sex complicates
• 59:10
  everything. But saying sex complicates
• 59:12
  everything doesn't stick in their head.
• 59:13
  They're like, OK, and then they just run out, 'cause they're
• 59:16
  young boys and they wanna have sex.
• 59:17
  But when you say don't stick your Dick crazy, you're like,
• 59:19
  wait, what? What is that?
• 59:20
  What happens? But yeah, a lot of those rules
• 59:23
  are in place for a reason, in that sense that somebody did
• 59:25
  something unbelievably stupid at one of the parties and then I
• 59:27
  had to make a rule. Out or shocking?
• 59:29
  I've been at a party where something shocking happened and
• 59:31
  now I have to ask, is there a no fucking pumpkins rule?
• 59:35
  No, that's as long as you let us know we could put a tarp down
• 59:38
  cuz it made a mess. But that's just disrespectful.
• 59:42
  But it's good to know that you can still fuck a pumpkin at the
• 59:44
  cathedral. What's gonna happen this
• 59:46
  Halloween again? They're coming back and we're
• 59:48
  actually going. We're going on a pumpkin hunt.
• 59:50
  So that was something that was notorious that happened.
• 59:54
  So we had 100 and something people in the house and they
• 59:57
  were all upstairs for this event and they asked, hey, so every
• 1:00:01
  year we do this, we fuck a pumpkin.
• 1:00:03
  Can I fuck a pumpkin? And Jim was like.
• 1:00:05
  Like, weird shit, sure, but so they took one of the pumpkins
• 1:00:09
  that we had just sitting there and they did whatever, and then
• 1:00:12
  they took the pumpkin upstairs and they were like, all right,
• 1:00:14
  now we gotta get them hard. And so they had a fluffer come
• 1:00:17
  over and they were messing with them and stuff.
• 1:00:19
  And then all you hear and we're downstairs.
• 1:00:21
  She's hard. Yeah, in the whole house is
• 1:00:24
  rumbling. The entire house is just, I've
• 1:00:27
  never heard anything like this and we're just like.
• 1:00:30
  Crew Mob Benton. It was like, what's going on?
• 1:00:32
  And then one of our DMS comes down is like, yeah, Jim,
• 1:00:35
  something's about to happen in your room that hasn't happened
• 1:00:37
  ever before. And Jim's like, our room's seen
• 1:00:40
  a lot of shit, ain't seen this. And so we're trying to get up
• 1:00:44
  there. People are lining the stairs
• 1:00:46
  going up. The entire loft is full.
• 1:00:49
  The entire hallway with the cutouts looking into the bedroom
• 1:00:52
  is full. Here is like no place to go and
• 1:00:56
  just the chanting. Now keep in mind my youngest son
• 1:01:00
  still lives with us. He's 2020.
• 1:01:02
  He's 20/23/24. Your son, he's 20.
• 1:01:05
  Four. He's 20.
• 1:01:05
  Four now, Yeah. So, so he, you know, he doesn't
• 1:01:08
  come out. He when he knows there's a thing
• 1:01:10
  happening, he doesn't come out. You know, I'll bring him food or
• 1:01:12
  whatever, but he's hearing all this chanting.
• 1:01:15
  Fuck. That pumpkin.
• 1:01:16
  Fuck that pumpkin. And then in the middle of it
• 1:01:19
  somebody changed the chant from fuck that pumpkin to pumpkin pie
• 1:01:24
  Just reverberated the entire house.
• 1:01:27
  Can't imagine what my neighbors might have thought.
• 1:01:30
  So so they are again coming and there will be the second annual
• 1:01:35
  pumpkin bucking at Cathedral and there's going to be an event
• 1:01:38
  where we're going to go to a pumpkin patch and we are going
• 1:01:40
  to let loose all of our people to find the perfect butthole
• 1:01:44
  pumpkin butt pumpkin. We want a pumpkin that looks
• 1:01:47
  like it has. Cheeks this is so well thought I
• 1:01:49
  love how you have taken this on and you're like fucking great.
• 1:01:53
  How do we up the and make this even?
• 1:01:55
  Better so the person that finds the best butthole pumpkin gets a
• 1:01:58
  free pass into the party. Now, the the party has grown
• 1:02:01
  over the years out in Vegas. Now we have to we have to cap it
• 1:02:03
  out at 100. And it's a big house.
• 1:02:05
  It's 4000 square feet, but it's also only 4000 square feet.
• 1:02:08
  So once you start getting into the, you know, over 100, it gets
• 1:02:10
  really crowded. And even though we did refurbish
• 1:02:13
  the garage and have all the Playstations in the garage,
• 1:02:15
  it'll still be waiting times like every play spot will be
• 1:02:18
  utilized. And then as soon as it's done,
• 1:02:20
  somebody's gonna be jumping in and going.
• 1:02:21
  But yeah, so for this party who find whoever finds the best
• 1:02:25
  pumpkin that we raid on gets a free ticket into the party.
• 1:02:28
  And then two weeks later, we're gonna have a pumpkin carving
• 1:02:30
  contest. Whoever does the best pumpkin
• 1:02:32
  carving, which I think I'm gonna win this one.
• 1:02:33
  I got some good ideas. I do good.
• 1:02:35
  Pumpkin, you actually you do Halloween well, so I.
• 1:02:37
  But I'm raiding it so I can't raid for myself.
• 1:02:38
  He. Does good pumpkins, Yeah.
• 1:02:41
  So it'll be fine. But yeah, so that's gonna happen
• 1:02:43
  again. This.
• 1:02:44
  Year, I'm gonna try and catch it this year.
• 1:02:45
  So you came out as a host, you did a solid and you came outside
• 1:02:49
  to everyone who was outside. And we did hear stuff, but we
• 1:02:51
  were just like at the party. And he said there is someone up
• 1:02:54
  fucking a pumpkin if you want to see that.
• 1:02:56
  And I thought that was so kind because she wanted to make sure
• 1:02:59
  no one missed this effect. So it's some weird shit and it's
• 1:03:02
  rare that you know, it's not something that, if it's
• 1:03:04
  something I haven't seen before, I'm pretty sure something most
• 1:03:07
  people haven't seen before. And I was so grateful.
• 1:03:09
  However, I was deep in a game of never have I ever was jello
• 1:03:12
  shots that you had made that were delicious.
• 1:03:15
  Yeah, I've already started the Jello shots for this year, so
• 1:03:18
  it's. Jim.
• 1:03:18
  Jim is an alchemist, Yes, when it comes to.
• 1:03:21
  Jello. Well, they're full on they're.
• 1:03:23
  Cocktails, Cocktails. Yeah, really.
• 1:03:25
  They were really good. Yeah.
• 1:03:27
  I'm requesting the candy corn ones again.
• 1:03:29
  I know they are intricate. That's a lot of work.
• 1:03:31
  They take the longest to make out of it just because you have
• 1:03:33
  to make each layer has to. I ate 75% of them.
• 1:03:37
  I'm telling you, I made everybody give me their candy
• 1:03:40
  corn ones because we were all very drunk on jello.
• 1:03:42
  Shots those days for him to figure out that white layer.
• 1:03:45
  The white layers, because there's no white jello, No.
• 1:03:48
  So what do you have to get? Gelatin and use like a cream.
• 1:03:50
  Whatever it was, it was perfection.
• 1:03:53
  And I, I hate candy corn, but I love your candy corn jello
• 1:03:56
  shots, so I like it. I'm coming back for those.
• 1:03:59
  And now to actually see someone fuck a pumpkin.
• 1:04:01
  Yeah. Yeah, Lady V's coming to town,
• 1:04:03
  so they're gonna do a big pet intensive on Saturday as well.
• 1:04:07
  Or it's gonna, it's called bike club where it's gonna be a pet
• 1:04:09
  mosh. I've personally never been, I've
• 1:04:11
  known of pet moshes and we know a lot of pets that are out here.
• 1:04:14
  But we so we have a big pet mosh that's gonna go on Saturday
• 1:04:17
  throughout the daytime. We'll probably have a barbecue
• 1:04:19
  and stuff for Halloween the day after.
• 1:04:21
  People hang out in the pool. Awesome, Will it be hot enough
• 1:04:24
  for the pool? Did you?
• 1:04:25
  Say daytime wise. Yeah, Oh, probably.
• 1:04:27
  How long are you still in the 90s?
• 1:04:28
  Yeah, I know. So as long as it's daytime,
• 1:04:30
  it'll the water be chilly, but it'll be nice and survivable.
• 1:04:33
  We won't have to cover the pool with shade everywhere because
• 1:04:35
  it'll be. That's what I love about Vegas.
• 1:04:37
  It's hot really all year round. I hate it.
• 1:04:40
  So I think over the course of the conversation, we've kind of
• 1:04:42
  addressed a lot of the questions that I got on my Instagram story
• 1:04:44
  when I said that I was going to be interviewing you.
• 1:04:46
  But one person asked a really interesting question, and I'm
• 1:04:49
  not even sure where it would come out of, but they asked,
• 1:04:51
  since you've been in this world for so long and you've hosted
• 1:04:54
  parties and owned an event space, have you ever, do you
• 1:04:57
  ever see couples sort of just getting into it or it not going
• 1:05:00
  well because there's a lot of drama and jealousy?
• 1:05:03
  I imagine that comes up, yeah. On all sorts of different
• 1:05:06
  levels. Yeah.
• 1:05:07
  The one that I think of the most, it's not really a couple.
• 1:05:10
  We teach a introduction to BDSM one-on-one, right?
• 1:05:13
  So we call it BDSM one-on-one. It's really just an introduction
• 1:05:16
  to it where we go over history, terminology, etiquette at
• 1:05:19
  parties, muncha sloshes, all the different stuff that you need
• 1:05:23
  to, Yeah, understand when you're coming into how to be safe on
• 1:05:26
  Fetlife. Unbelievably fantastic website.
• 1:05:28
  If people are on it, it's like kinky Facebook.
• 1:05:30
  But when we had the the event space, when we had the
• 1:05:33
  clubhouse, I would teach it an hour before at the party and I
• 1:05:36
  condensed it. Right now it's like a 2 hour
• 1:05:38
  class, but back then I could do it 45 minutes because I geared
• 1:05:40
  it just towards my party, just towards my event space.
• 1:05:43
  What I needed in the note took out the history and all the
• 1:05:45
  stuff and I had five or six people attend every single time,
• 1:05:48
  which was common, but it was also every Friday, Saturday and
• 1:05:50
  Sunday and sometimes Thursdays. So I'm teaching the class I'm
• 1:05:53
  going through and I always have an army of people that are
• 1:05:56
  volunteering and helping and doing stuff.
• 1:05:58
  And I, I had all the stuff in my car that needed to get unloaded,
• 1:06:01
  like the drinks and supplies, the stuff for that party.
• 1:06:03
  And they start unloading stuff and coming through.
• 1:06:05
  And one of the girls is sitting directly in front of me, just
• 1:06:08
  goes deathly pale. And she screams daddy no and
• 1:06:12
  then sprints out of the house running.
• 1:06:14
  And I turn around and here's one of my volunteers that's been
• 1:06:16
  doing this for years just standing there holding a flat of
• 1:06:19
  water going ah fuck man. Where his daughter is now just
• 1:06:22
  freshly turned to 18, was trying to come up to the clubhouse and
• 1:06:24
  go through and he had to shut the water down and go when she.
• 1:06:27
  Said Daddy. She went her actual.
• 1:06:30
  Father which? Was Father.
• 1:06:32
  Hilariously funny at the time because he just started dating a
• 1:06:35
  girl that went to it was the same class with his daughter
• 1:06:38
  there also. So when you talk about drama
• 1:06:40
  that unfolds, that down came down the line too, and that was
• 1:06:43
  more. That's a different type of
• 1:06:44
  relationship. Different type of drama.
• 1:06:46
  Wow. So yeah, we've had couples that
• 1:06:49
  have had beefs and things that go down.
• 1:06:52
  It's not generally at the parties.
• 1:06:54
  Every once in a while you'll see something small all happen, but
• 1:06:57
  people usually contain themselves at the parties really
• 1:07:00
  well. And it's also one of the things
• 1:07:02
  I I talk about at the time. It's like, you know, if
• 1:07:04
  something happens and, and you are uncomfortable with the
• 1:07:07
  situation, especially when you bring in sex because sex
• 1:07:10
  complicates everything. You know, we've delved into kind
• 1:07:12
  of the swinger community and stuff.
• 1:07:14
  We have a lot of friends that are swingers and we've gone to
• 1:07:16
  events and stuff. If something happens that upsets
• 1:07:18
  you, don't make a scene in that moment, but bookmark that shit
• 1:07:22
  and then talk about it with your partner later.
• 1:07:24
  You know, you have a finite number of times that you get to
• 1:07:26
  go out and do things with your partners and with your people.
• 1:07:29
  So enjoy the times that you do get to go out and do those
• 1:07:32
  things, but make sure you correct any behavior that upsets
• 1:07:35
  you so bad later on. Yeah.
• 1:07:36
  Yeah, that's. Because we've seen that where it
• 1:07:39
  was the first time he saw her have sex with somebody else and
• 1:07:43
  he freaking, he broke down, he was sobbing.
• 1:07:47
  And on me. Yeah, and then the guy who she
• 1:07:51
  had sex with was just, you know, he got a little annoyed about
• 1:07:54
  the whole thing because it was just weeks later.
• 1:07:57
  He was annoyed because the person wanted to talk to him.
• 1:07:59
  And he was like, it was a party. It was a swinger party.
• 1:08:02
  You came there do those things and then you can't, you know, so
• 1:08:06
  you. Can't expect someone else to do
• 1:08:08
  the repair work when they are technically a stranger.
• 1:08:10
  And like, I talk a lot about repair work, I talk about
• 1:08:12
  consent aftercare. But this is one of those
• 1:08:15
  scenarios where that person didn't owe this partner.
• 1:08:18
  Didn't owe him a thing because that's.
• 1:08:20
  What? Yeah, it's what you sign up for.
• 1:08:23
  I have some memories of one specific thing that I have a
• 1:08:26
  problem with, when people let their kinks kind of overflow
• 1:08:30
  into some of the party sections. And when I say that is like, if
• 1:08:33
  you have a specific fetish, if you fetishized an entire genre
• 1:08:36
  of people or a race of people like the BBC fetish.
• 1:08:39
  We had a white couple that came to one of the parties.
• 1:08:41
  And one of my closest friends is a younger black male.
• 1:08:45
  Yeah. We hung out in the kitchen of
• 1:08:47
  bullshit and talk and, you know, joke all the time.
• 1:08:49
  And she approached him or he approached him and asked, hey,
• 1:08:52
  my wife really would like to play with you, You down?
• 1:08:55
  And he was like, fuck, yeah, let's go get it.
• 1:08:56
  And then in the middle of it she was like, oh give me that black
• 1:08:58
  Dick. And then like just kept making
• 1:09:01
  it, pushing more and more racism into the scenario of it until
• 1:09:04
  when he just like stood back, didn't even say anything and
• 1:09:06
  just walked away. He faked an orgasm.
• 1:09:09
  And and came out of it. I feel bad he even had to do
• 1:09:11
  that. You know, so he.
• 1:09:12
  Hasn't to escape. It's like, be wary.
• 1:09:15
  It's I'm not gonna kink shame anybody for the things that they
• 1:09:18
  have at all. But you know, you need to
• 1:09:20
  discuss those things with people as it comes into it because it
• 1:09:23
  really made a very awkward scenario for everybody coming
• 1:09:27
  through with it and even us down the line moving forward.
• 1:09:29
  And there are sources for people who feel that way.
• 1:09:31
  Like I got a text message from a guy who was like, well I guess
• 1:09:35
  you could tell when I'm into. And he sent me a picture of his
• 1:09:39
  white girlfriend wearing an Afro wig and a daishiki.
• 1:09:42
  Look, yeah. No, I don't know why I continue
• 1:09:44
  to be surprised by. And I was but and I showed it to
• 1:09:48
  my our friend and he was like, I don't know if I want to laugh at
• 1:09:51
  that or go kick his ass. Because I feel like.
• 1:09:54
  Because it was funny, but at the same time it was not funny.
• 1:09:57
  I know exactly because it's like, that is so ridiculous.
• 1:10:00
  You're like, how cool. The audacity.
• 1:10:02
  I like all of the things and I don't know, I first.
• 1:10:05
  Bro, you could have kept that to yourself you know?
• 1:10:08
  Before we open the. Club you want to fuck her with
• 1:10:10
  all of that on you go right ahead.
• 1:10:12
  You know that, but because it made.
• 1:10:14
  It non consensual for those third parties, you know, and
• 1:10:17
  that's the problem. It's fine to have those kinks,
• 1:10:19
  but you got to be consensual when it comes through.
• 1:10:20
  We did somebody show up to our house when we lived in
• 1:10:22
  California before the clubhouse that showed up in a full s s
• 1:10:25
  Nazi uniform, a little cane on to it.
• 1:10:28
  And I was like, Nope, not today, Satan, you.
• 1:10:32
  Didn't ask. I mean, and there's military
• 1:10:34
  play and there's play and keen for that and there are people
• 1:10:38
  who love that and that's fine. We don't yuck anybody's young,
• 1:10:41
  you know, as long as long as you're not hurting children or
• 1:10:43
  animals. Yeah, you know, but what 2
• 1:10:46
  consenting adults do is what 2 consenting adults do.
• 1:10:49
  And what they like is what they like.
• 1:10:51
  But you do, you do have to realize that consent is all the
• 1:10:55
  way around when you're to a BDSM party you were consenting to,
• 1:10:59
  I'm going to see some shit. I'm going to see somebody get
• 1:11:02
  beat. I may see blood, I may see this,
• 1:11:04
  I may see that. But if you're doing something
• 1:11:06
  that's extremely niche, you do have to say, hey, how you feel
• 1:11:10
  if I come wearing this and we'll be like, might not.
• 1:11:14
  Be not the place. Because that's like somebody
• 1:11:17
  rolling up in a clan uniform at one of my parties talking about,
• 1:11:20
  hey, this is my, this is my kink.
• 1:11:23
  I'm like, you can kink your ass right on out of my house.
• 1:11:24
  That's what you can do. But.
• 1:11:27
  That would be so polite if that scenario were actually.
• 1:11:30
  You know, but but, you know, so it's like, you know, you just
• 1:11:35
  got to keep your, you know. Yeah, I'd be mindful.
• 1:11:38
  I think you did a really great job of very politely explaining
• 1:11:41
  that. And I have AI have a friend on
• 1:11:44
  on TikTok. The parasocial relationships
• 1:11:46
  that exist when you are on TikTok, but they are pup,
• 1:11:50
  they're a pup. And one of the things they do is
• 1:11:52
  they do a lot of diversity education in the space.
• 1:11:55
  And they explained it really well to me because even I said I
• 1:11:58
  don't understand how to explain to people that race play in a
• 1:12:01
  public party is not OK, but age play is.
• 1:12:04
  And it's the idea that people understand and you know this
• 1:12:07
  better than anyone, but they explained it to me.
• 1:12:08
  People understand that age play is fantasy and imagination,
• 1:12:13
  whereas race play someone from that reality cannot tell.
• 1:12:16
  If that's your kink and exactly that, it could very much be seen
• 1:12:20
  as reality. And then somebody sitting there
• 1:12:22
  coloring isn't hurting anyone. Just gonna say, at our house, at
• 1:12:26
  our parties, the age play that happens at our parties is I've
• 1:12:29
  never seen any sex. There's no sex related.
• 1:12:32
  It's not. Sex, yeah, and I'm not saying
• 1:12:33
  that age play and sex don't overlap because what people do
• 1:12:36
  in the comfort of their own home is their own thing.
• 1:12:38
  But the littles that I know, it doesn't happen.
• 1:12:41
  You know, if you go to a scout meeting that's out of here, like
• 1:12:43
  one of our groups is a littles group, It's, you know, the Las
• 1:12:47
  Vegas little Scouts. They're going and they're
• 1:12:49
  making, you know, sashes and they're doing ribbons and
• 1:12:52
  buttons and things to put on their stuff.
• 1:12:54
  They're building houses and forts and it's littles play.
• 1:12:57
  They're drinking juice boxes and eat snacks, food and they're
• 1:13:00
  little couples party. Yeah, they're littles.
• 1:13:01
  There's no age that. They've got stuffies involved.
• 1:13:04
  Yeah, they're walking around with their stuffies and there's
• 1:13:06
  none of the cutest PJ's you've ever seen.
• 1:13:08
  Sometimes they are not hurting anyone.
• 1:13:10
  Yeah. So we had our quarterly house
• 1:13:12
  meeting last night where I cook a big dinner and we talk about
• 1:13:14
  everything cuz we have a lot of subgroups that go on to it.
• 1:13:17
  And it was definitely was. It was requested of me to
• 1:13:19
  definitely point out that adult baby diaper play and general
• 1:13:22
  littles play are two vastly different things and basically
• 1:13:25
  very separate groups. Yeah.
• 1:13:27
  And that's a solid point. So I got to add that to my one.
• 1:13:29
  On one and also topic for another podcast probably is that
• 1:13:32
  type of difference OK? What advice do you have to
• 1:13:34
  people who want to get involved in their local community but
• 1:13:37
  they're nervous or shy? Like what would you like to say
• 1:13:40
  to them? So first, get on Fetlife.
• 1:13:42
  It's the easiest way to get out. Now there's some communities
• 1:13:45
  that use meet up. There's some communities that
• 1:13:47
  use Facebook and have private groups that you can find if you
• 1:13:50
  can find them. Fetlife is the easiest way.
• 1:13:52
  Make your account, keep it private and this goes into the
• 1:13:55
  one-on-one. I'll spill off in a little bit.
• 1:13:56
  When you make your account, don't have any identifiable
• 1:13:59
  things on your initial profile. Your pictures are set to fet
• 1:14:02
  lifers and they're set to friends only.
• 1:14:04
  So set anything with your face or anything identifiable,
• 1:14:06
  tattoos or anything that are on that to friends only and then go
• 1:14:09
  nuts with it. Upload, explore yourself and all
• 1:14:12
  the freedom that you want out of do it, but keep it once you're
• 1:14:14
  done and you make your profile and you have, you know, built it
• 1:14:17
  the way you want, go to groups and then events and look for the
• 1:14:20
  different things. If you click events, if you're
• 1:14:22
  in a major city, it's going to be overpopulated with sex
• 1:14:25
  parties and gangbangs and glory holes and other sorts of it's
• 1:14:29
  it's a sexually charged fetish website as the best way I could
• 1:14:32
  explain it, but you can at the very top, you can click on
• 1:14:34
  educational, you can click on socials, you can click on
• 1:14:37
  parties. If you exclude all that and
• 1:14:40
  leave the sex parties out of it, you can find your socials and
• 1:14:42
  find your munches and then reach out to the event host that's
• 1:14:45
  there and say, hey, this is my first munch, I'm coming out.
• 1:14:47
  I'd really want to meet people. Here's some of my basic kinks,
• 1:14:50
  you know, and they'll be like, great, it's so wonderful to have
• 1:14:52
  you there. And then when you show up,
• 1:14:53
  they'll set you down next to other extroverted people that
• 1:14:56
  can kind of carry the conversation for you sometimes.
• 1:14:58
  Or just, you know, maybe you might click with somebody that
• 1:15:01
  has the like minded kinks and you guys can really explore
• 1:15:03
  things together on your own. And being a shy person, it's
• 1:15:06
  also an opportunity for you not to be because nobody knows you.
• 1:15:09
  You can just go in there and just do the things that you
• 1:15:13
  ordinarily would not say or do. Like you ordinarily in a vanilla
• 1:15:17
  space wouldn't go introduce yourself to somebody you know.
• 1:15:20
  A munch with kinky people is a spot where you can be yourself.
• 1:15:26
  Yes. So you can step up and talk and
• 1:15:31
  nobody's going to judge you. And that's the big thing is
• 1:15:33
  nobody's going to judge you. You may say something weird and
• 1:15:35
  somebody be like, OK, that was a little weird, but you know
• 1:15:38
  we're. Surrounded by weird.
• 1:15:39
  People, we're all kind of weird. So it's it's fine.
• 1:15:43
  It's just fine. So yeah, I feel like also from
• 1:15:46
  Jim's one O 1 is when you create your your profile picture, what
• 1:15:52
  you create is what you're going to get.
• 1:15:55
  So if you put your boobs on there or your vagina or
• 1:16:01
  something like that, you are going to get every creeper on
• 1:16:03
  earth, every creeper on earth. And if you just put your penis
• 1:16:07
  on there, then you know, you're not going to get what you think
• 1:16:10
  you're going to get. You know, you're not going to be
• 1:16:12
  overloaded with all these women. It's like, I really like your
• 1:16:15
  Dick. It looks really cool.
• 1:16:16
  Unless you're that guy who dresses his Dick up as various
• 1:16:19
  little characters and by Mr. Dickey is fucking fantastic.
• 1:16:22
  But you know, just set your profile pic in such a way that
• 1:16:26
  if you want, if you want something of yours that's on
• 1:16:29
  there, just kind of be aware you're gonna end up with that's.
• 1:16:32
  Really great advice, but also I love the idea that you can just
• 1:16:35
  show up to a munch and you're not.
• 1:16:36
  It's a judgment free zone. Yeah.
• 1:16:38
  And sometimes we all say something a little weird.
• 1:16:40
  Yeah. And that's OK.
• 1:16:41
  It is OK you bounce back. Be weird, OK?
• 1:16:44
  Thank you both so much for your advice, for your stories, and
• 1:16:48
  for joining. Today having us.
• 1:16:49
  Absolutely. So if people want to go follow
• 1:16:52
  you and find you on FET, what are your handles?
• 1:16:54
  So Pope, it's just 4 little letters.
• 1:16:56
  It's super simple, the best way. I don't use my personal account
• 1:16:59
  nearly as much as I would love to.
• 1:17:01
  At times I log on to it once a week or so just cuz the
• 1:17:03
  cathedral account takes over almost everything.
• 1:17:05
  So should they follow the cathedral?
• 1:17:07
  Yeah, so say the. Under score Cathedral.
• 1:17:09
  You have to add the under score in there, otherwise it's just as
• 1:17:12
  simple out of it. If you're struggling to find
• 1:17:13
  that, you can find it through my personal profile.
• 1:17:15
  Then you'll find the Cathedral, you'll find all of the different
• 1:17:19
  subgroup hosts that do things like we have rote groups, we
• 1:17:21
  have the littles group, we have the discussion groups, a
• 1:17:24
  subspace for submissives to have, a support group that's out
• 1:17:28
  that meets once a month. And then we have Shades of Red,
• 1:17:30
  the Sin City Femdoms. They're all attached to the same
• 1:17:33
  thing. So we kind of branch out of
• 1:17:35
  offer as much stuff as we can for different people.
• 1:17:37
  I just want to like under score the fact that this is for local
• 1:17:41
  people in the community. Yes, Vegas is a huge tourist
• 1:17:44
  town, but this isn't for tourism.
• 1:17:46
  This is building up our I say us, but we're all part of the
• 1:17:50
  community. That's right.
• 1:17:51
  And we're looking for this is more about people in the
• 1:17:54
  community. You mentioned before about
• 1:17:56
  tourists and whatnot, and it's fine.
• 1:17:58
  We get a lot of tourists that reach out to us and be like, I'm
• 1:17:59
  going to be in Vegas, I want to turn shit up.
• 1:18:01
  And it's like, that's the wrong way to reach out to us in a
• 1:18:04
  sense of it. If you are predominant in your
• 1:18:06
  community somewhere in Nebraska and you're coming out to Vegas
• 1:18:10
  and it happens to fall on the weekend that we have an event
• 1:18:13
  coming on, reach out to us in advance, say, hey, I'm so and so
• 1:18:16
  coming from this area. Yeah, I'm a part of this
• 1:18:18
  community. Here's my community leaders.
• 1:18:20
  I would love to attend your event and then I could reach out
• 1:18:23
  to those community leaders and vet you on a different style of
• 1:18:26
  things. If you come with a couple days
• 1:18:28
  to spare and you're able to catch the munch, then that gives
• 1:18:31
  us a chance to meet you and allow you to come to some more.
• 1:18:34
  Yes, that we have. So we we try to go out of our
• 1:18:35
  way to vet people because we didn't.
• 1:18:37
  We live in Vegas. We know there's a high 50
• 1:18:40
  million people come here every year.
• 1:18:41
  But the wrong way to do it is have a picture of your Dick as
• 1:18:44
  your profile picture and just send me a message that says I
• 1:18:47
  need the address. I'm not going to respond to you.
• 1:18:48
  That's heaven. Every single party.
• 1:18:51
  Once again, zero shock. I don't want to look at your
• 1:18:53
  Dick every time you send me a message.
• 1:18:54
  So it's just that's the. 1st, I also don't want to look at
• 1:18:56
  anybody's Dick. Every time I in my son there's a
• 1:18:59
  message in my inbox. And Veronica, where can we find
• 1:19:01
  you? Mine is caramel Aphrodite.
• 1:19:04
  Like a caramel, like sweet. Yeah.
• 1:19:05
  Aphrodite. Beautiful.
• 1:19:07
  OK, if you find the cathedral we're all attached under, we're
• 1:19:11
  all in service to the cathedral. So the cathedral page has
• 1:19:13
  everybody's profoundings attached to it.
• 1:19:16
  Awesome. Yeah.
• 1:19:16
  All right. Well, I want to thank you, you
• 1:19:17
  both so much for coming on here. This has been an absolute blast.
• 1:19:20
  I love being a part of your community.
• 1:19:22
  And the cathedral is where I met all of my friends, right in
• 1:19:27
  Vegas. I moved here 15 months ago, and
• 1:19:29
  I have the biggest network, and I feel like I have family here.
• 1:19:32
  And it's because of the cathedral.
• 1:19:34
  It's because of the people in the community who go out to
• 1:19:36
  other events and tell them about the cathedral, you know?
• 1:19:40
  All right. Well, it has been an absolute
• 1:19:42
  pleasure. Thank you both so much.
• 1:19:43
  Again. No, seriously, my honor.
• 1:19:46
  OK. Thank you so much.
• 1:19:50
  If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave
• 1:19:52
  a review, and share it with anyone who might find it
• 1:19:55
  interesting. If you have any questions or
• 1:19:57
  topics you'd like me to cover in future episodes, feel free to
• 1:19:59
  reach out e-mail info@thekingconsultant.com.
• 1:20:03
  Until next time, keep on Kinkin on.