Latest / Wits & Weights | Strength & Fat Loss Over 40 / The ONE Sleep Change That Boosts Fat Loss, HRV, and Muscle Recovery (Dr. Peter Martone) | Ep 280

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The ONE Sleep Change That Boosts Fat Loss, HRV, and Muscle Recovery (Dr. Peter Martone) | Ep 280 · Wits & Weights | Strength & Fat Loss Over 40

• 0:01
  Philip Pape: We all know that sleep is super important and you might even be tracking your sleep, your training, your nutrition, your HRV, your aura ring all of that.
• 0:09
  Philip Pape: But what if your sleep position is the thing holding you back?
• 0:12
  Philip Pape: Your neck alignment, for example, during sleep, affects your nervous system and your recovery.
• 0:17
  Philip Pape: Well, in this episode, sleep expert Dr Peter Martone is on to share how traditional sleeping positions might be working against you and shares a better approach that could help you out.
• 0:28
  Philip Pape: You'll learn why neck position impacts everything from HRV to recovery and get some practical tips to implement, starting tonight.
• 0:35
  Philip Pape: Whether you wake up with stiff shoulders, can't seem to recover between workouts, or you just want to optimize your rest, this episode will change how you think about sleep and sleep position.
• 0:51
  Philip Pape: Welcome to Wits and Weights, the podcast that blends evidence and engineering to help you build smart, efficient systems to achieve your dream physique.
• 0:59
  Philip Pape: I'm your host, philip Pape, and today we're examining how sleep position affects your recovery and results with Dr Peter Martone.
• 1:06
  Philip Pape: Drawing from over 25 years as a chiropractor and exercise physiologist, peter discovered some profound connections between neck position during sleep and nervous system function, and he's helped thousands optimize their sleep through proper positioning.
• 1:21
  Philip Pape: So today you're going to learn how your sleep position influences nervous system function, why the way you currently sleep might be compromising your recovery, and some practical tips to improve your sleep, starting tonight.
• 1:33
  Philip Pape: Dr Martone, welcome to the show.
• 1:36
  Dr. Peter Martone: That was a great interview.
• 1:37
  Dr. Peter Martone: Thank you for being I mean a great introduction.
• 1:39
  Dr. Peter Martone: Wow, you've really summed up everything.
• 1:41
  Dr. Peter Martone: I think we're done you did it.
• 1:43
  Philip Pape: There you go.
• 1:43
  Philip Pape: Yeah, no, you just said that the interview is done.
• 1:45
  Philip Pape: Yeah, there we go.
• 1:45
  Philip Pape: No, that's awesome, you know, for the folks listening.
• 1:49
  Philip Pape: Dr Martone gets around the podcast circuit for sure, and I first heard him on another podcast and it blew me away, because we talk about sleep a lot in the nutrition and training world.
• 2:00
  Philip Pape: It's kind of the same things over and over, though it's the sleep hacks 's, the, you know, the cold, uh, the cold dark room with the sleep mask and the avoiding blue light and all of that.
• 2:10
  Philip Pape: But I want to get into this very special angle that you come at it from with position, and my first question really is what exactly is a sleep avatar?
• 2:19
  Philip Pape: Because I think that would lead to this very well I think that that is.
• 2:22
  Dr. Peter Martone: That is so.
• 2:23
  Dr. Peter Martone: And listen.
• 2:24
  Dr. Peter Martone: All the advice from the experts out there.
• 2:26
  Dr. Peter Martone: It's great, it's all a piece of the pie, but in moving into this field I realized that they're missing the crust, and the crust is the connection that we live our life.
• 2:38
  Dr. Peter Martone: And by the end of this podcast, if anybody wants to improve their performance, take their training to the next level, take their injury recovery to the next level.
• 2:48
  Dr. Peter Martone: You have to understand one thing that we live our life through our nervous system and everything we do through recovery, through, you know, digesting food, how we digest food, is all controlled by the nervous system.
• 3:02
  Dr. Peter Martone: So when you eat food, putting that food in your system, that's not what makes you healthy.
• 3:08
  Dr. Peter Martone: It's your body adaptation to that food, and that is all driven neurologically.
• 3:12
  Dr. Peter Martone: So when I took that understanding and then I applied it to sleep, you can see that all the advice is great Lie in a cold room.
• 3:22
  Dr. Peter Martone: That helps Make it quiet, shut off the TV.
• 3:25
  Dr. Peter Martone: All of these things are super important.
• 3:27
  Dr. Peter Martone: But what's happening right now?
• 3:30
  Dr. Peter Martone: How you're listening to this, let's say, this podcast, that podcast is happening in real time, but you're not listening to it in reality.
• 3:42
  Dr. Peter Martone: You're accepting this podcast through your sight through sound.
• 3:46
  Dr. Peter Martone: So you're basically your brain is integrating the information and what you're listening to is a distortion of reality.
• 3:56
  Dr. Peter Martone: And so what one person's experience might be listening to this podcast the same exact podcast somebody else could have a very this podcast the same exact podcast somebody else could have a very, very different experience because it's driven through our nervous system.
• 4:09
  Dr. Peter Martone: So when you think about our nervous system, we have basically some specific needs.
• 4:14
  Dr. Peter Martone: You're in fight or flight, where you're in like training, or you're in growth or in a repair when you're sleeping.
• 4:20
  Dr. Peter Martone: So think about when you are running from a tiger.
• 4:26
  Dr. Peter Martone: You're in the stressful state, and that stressful state some people live there emotionally.
• 4:32
  Dr. Peter Martone: So if you live in stress, one of the fundamental underlying needs for sleep is safety.
• 4:38
  Dr. Peter Martone: So some people require a lot more safety than others.
• 4:43
  Dr. Peter Martone: Some people curl up in a ball to sleep and some people can sleep opened up.
• 4:48
  Dr. Peter Martone: So, your avatar, we've designed this very specific test at drsleeprightcom, where you take these I don't know, maybe it's 10, 15, 20 questions and it identifies what animal you need to sleep like.
• 5:02
  Dr. Peter Martone: Basically, what it's doing is it's identifying what your subconscious need for safety is, and then, by doing that, I give you specific advice based on what your avatar score is or what animal avatar you are.
• 5:15
  Dr. Peter Martone: Are you a gorilla, are you an armadillo or are you an ostrich?
• 5:19
  Philip Pape: Yeah, gorilla, armadillo, ostrich Good, I want to be able to get into that.
• 5:22
  Philip Pape: First, I want to say I didn't take offense that you said this was a distortion of reality, because the context you put it in made 100% sense.
• 5:30
  Philip Pape: I'm a fan of the matrix, by the way, so you got me going there through the senses.
• 5:35
  Philip Pape: But it's true.
• 5:36
  Philip Pape: All of existence that we perceive is through our senses, and even philosophers over the centuries have argued what is real right.
• 5:44
  Philip Pape: So what's really cool about this, peter, is we talk about the central nervous system a lot, with stress and also with training, but we don't drop that connection in very much when it comes to sleep.
• 5:56
  Philip Pape: I'm realizing that myself.
• 5:57
  Philip Pape: I've talked about sleep a lot and helped many clients with it, and I don't often put it in that context.
• 6:02
  Philip Pape: So that's going to be super helpful as you move forward.
• 6:05
  Philip Pape: And then the need for safety.
• 6:06
  Philip Pape: I just had a guest on talking about the need for safety with our food choices, how we go to food for comfort, and it's just all so primal.
• 6:15
  Philip Pape: So I want to understand about these three animals.
• 6:18
  Philip Pape: I'd be curious what I am.
• 6:19
  Philip Pape: I haven't taken the test yet, but I'm going to do that.
• 6:21
  Philip Pape: You said the gorilla, the armadillo and the.
• 6:25
  Dr. Peter Martone: The gorilla, the armadillo and the ostrich, and the ostrich.
• 6:27
  Dr. Peter Martone: Okay, so now we're in the second step, right?
• 6:31
  Dr. Peter Martone: So let's just let's talk about where this came from.
• 6:33
  Dr. Peter Martone: Actually, let's just go all the way back and tell you why I'm even in the sleep industry.
• 6:38
  Philip Pape: Okay, good, yeah, why are you in?
• 6:39
  Philip Pape: It?
• 6:39
  Philip Pape: Does position matter?
• 6:40
  Philip Pape: All of that?
• 6:42
  Dr. Peter Martone: This was nuts.
• 6:43
  Dr. Peter Martone: So I'm an exercise physiologist.
• 6:45
  Dr. Peter Martone: I trained in UMass, amherst in Australia.
• 6:48
  Dr. Peter Martone: I was a professional trainer in Australia and it was.
• 6:51
  Dr. Peter Martone: So I'm an exercise physiologist.
• 6:54
  Dr. Peter Martone: I love the study of biomechanics.
• 6:55
  Dr. Peter Martone: I geeked out on it.
• 6:57
  Dr. Peter Martone: I loved the shoulder, but I always had pain.
• 6:59
  Dr. Peter Martone: I always had pain in my shoulder.
• 7:01
  Dr. Peter Martone: I always had back pain.
• 7:02
  Dr. Peter Martone: I went through chiropractic school always had pain, even adjusting patients.
• 7:07
  Dr. Peter Martone: I'd teach patients how to get out of pain, but I myself always had pain.
• 7:11
  Dr. Peter Martone: I attributed it to being a competitive mountain biker skydive, rock climb.
• 7:18
  Dr. Peter Martone: I do anything to scratch the itch of having ADD that can drive me to adrenaline.
• 7:24
  Dr. Peter Martone: Right, because stimulation is what calms somebody that has a brain that goes a million miles a minute.
• 7:28
  Dr. Peter Martone: So I was driven to stimulation.
• 7:32
  Dr. Peter Martone: And then, you know, my best friend was in a tragic accident, died right in front of me.
• 7:37
  Dr. Peter Martone: We were on quads and it flipped over and landed on him.
• 7:40
  Dr. Peter Martone: You know, I gave him CPR and it set me into a negative dalwich spiral, just a a dark, dark place where I never wanted to be again.
• 7:51
  Dr. Peter Martone: And um, so I was there and I was mountain biking, taking crazy risks, just had my first child and I jumped off this drop.
• 8:00
  Dr. Peter Martone: It was about a 10 foot drop on my mountain bike and I felt a little tweak in my lower back and and you know I have had it before it wasn't really too big of an issue.
• 8:10
  Dr. Peter Martone: But then after the next couple days, I went down.
• 8:14
  Dr. Peter Martone: All I did was pick up a pencil and blew out my disc.
• 8:18
  Dr. Peter Martone: Now I'm.
• 8:20
  Dr. Peter Martone: I remember I was in so much pain I I told my wife I'm like I call the ambulance, I can't move, and she's like I'll take you to the hospital.
• 8:29
  Dr. Peter Martone: What's wrong?
• 8:30
  Dr. Peter Martone: I'm like you don't understand.
• 8:31
  Dr. Peter Martone: I can't move.
• 8:33
  Philip Pape: Yeah, unless you could pick me up, I can't move.
• 8:35
  Dr. Peter Martone: Leg was numb and I had so much morphine.
• 8:38
  Dr. Peter Martone: By the time I got to the hospital they asked my wife if I was a drug addict, because I was in that much pain and I can remember me in the emergency room saying how does it get to this?
• 8:48
  Dr. Peter Martone: I'm a chiropractor, I understand biomechanics, but I myself can't help myself.
• 8:53
  Dr. Peter Martone: So once I got out of the hospital I said I'm not going to have surgery.
• 8:57
  Dr. Peter Martone: I got to figure this out.
• 8:58
  Dr. Peter Martone: So I reviewed 3,000 x-rays at the time and I just I knew, knew there was a pattern.
• 9:04
  Dr. Peter Martone: I just couldn't really put my consciousness to it.
• 9:07
  Dr. Peter Martone: So I started reviewing x-rays, reviewing x-rays, looking at cervical x-rays and how they relate to lumbar x-rays.
• 9:13
  Dr. Peter Martone: Cervical is the neck, lumbar is the back, cervical lumbar, cervical lumbar.
• 9:17
  Dr. Peter Martone: And I found this correlation that in our body we're supposed to have curves.
• 9:22
  Dr. Peter Martone: You have a cervical curve and the lumbar curve is the same curve.
• 9:26
  Dr. Peter Martone: But when you lose the cervical curve, which I had, I had a little bit of a loss of curve, never any pain in my neck.
• 9:33
  Dr. Peter Martone: The reactive response due to what's called dura mater tension is a curve in the lower back and that curve in the lower back happens through the psoas major muscle, which is another thing that we found.
• 9:47
  Dr. Peter Martone: And the psoas is the only muscle in the human body that attaches directly to a disc.
• 9:51
  Dr. Peter Martone: So I didn't have back pain all these years because I wasn't getting adjusted enough or because I wasn't stretching enough.
• 9:58
  Dr. Peter Martone: It was because I had loss of cervical curve, picking up pelvic rotation, doing an adaptive response, and I'm like, holy shit, are you kidding me, ken?
• 10:08
  Dr. Peter Martone: And that was a side sleeper.
• 10:10
  Dr. Peter Martone: I used to curl up in my ball because my physiology loves protection, had shoulder issues, hip issues, and I'm like wait a second If I can spend, because I know long, long stretching is the best type of stretching, because I know long, long stretching is the best type of stretching, so I can spend one third of my life stretching my neck back, making sure I can reestablish that curve.
• 10:31
  Dr. Peter Martone: In theory, at the time it should be able to take the pressure off my low back and fix my disc problem, and that's what ended up happening.
• 10:40
  Dr. Peter Martone: I started jamming pillows up under my neck until I created this neckness and then I started to transform the health of my spine and then I transferred that to my patients.
• 10:53
  Dr. Peter Martone: So that's really what drew me into the sleep industry.
• 10:57
  Dr. Peter Martone: It wasn't because I wanted to help people sleep.
• 10:59
  Dr. Peter Martone: I wanted to fix their spines while they slept, and that is why our approach is so much different, because I come from all of this, this wholism, this, this holistic approach to healthcare, and now we've adapted that entire thing to sleep and increasing performance.
• 11:17
  Philip Pape: Yeah, no, it makes sense Mixing the biomechanics with the nervous system, with your individual propensity for that.
• 11:24
  Philip Pape: What I want to understand, peter, is the three avatars you mentioned.
• 11:29
  Philip Pape: It's a safety thing, but there's also a biomechanical or physical thing.
• 11:33
  Philip Pape: I mean, I guess it's in the questionnaire, but I'm trying to understand how someone decides what they are, and then is the solution very different between them, or is there like a baseline set of things that are practical for everyone to use?
• 11:45
  Dr. Peter Martone: So then what we do is we have this triune of sleep, and this is where the avatar comes in.
• 11:50
  Dr. Peter Martone: You have the conscious brain, the subconscious brain and then the body.
• 11:55
  Dr. Peter Martone: Okay, the body wants alignment, that's all it wants.
• 11:59
  Dr. Peter Martone: It doesn't want to be in pinning.
• 12:00
  Dr. Peter Martone: And this is where the trick is the subconscious brain, the fundamental need for the subconscious brain.
• 12:06
  Dr. Peter Martone: It doesn't know posture, it knows pressure, and the subconscious brain wants to feel safe in order to sleep.
• 12:16
  Dr. Peter Martone: Right, when I grew up in Malden, massachusetts, I was on a busy street and kids would bang on the window and it would scare the heck out of me.
• 12:24
  Dr. Peter Martone: So I was always afraid to go to sleep.
• 12:26
  Dr. Peter Martone: So I curled up in a ball, I put all these stuffed animals around me, and only when I felt safe was my body able to fall asleep.
• 12:33
  Dr. Peter Martone: So different people, depending on their types of personality, require more safety than others.
• 12:38
  Dr. Peter Martone: And so let's say you're a gorilla, okay, everybody needs to start in the same position.
• 12:45
  Dr. Peter Martone: You're a human, you need your weight distributed over the greatest surface area and everybody needs to start in a specific position.
• 12:53
  Dr. Peter Martone: Now your conscious brain is going to say you can't do it.
• 12:55
  Dr. Peter Martone: But what your conscious brain is mistaking for comfort, it's the subconscious brain saying this isn't a safe position.
• 13:02
  Dr. Peter Martone: That is what we have to understand.
• 13:04
  Dr. Peter Martone: So we put the body in alignment.
• 13:06
  Dr. Peter Martone: Then we need to figure out a plan to be able to create safety for the subconscious brain, because once you fall asleep, the conscious brain is out of it.
• 13:15
  Dr. Peter Martone: The subconscious brain controls sleep.
• 13:17
  Dr. Peter Martone: So if you can identify the amount of safety somebody needs, some people need to put a pillow on their head, like the ostrich.
• 13:26
  Dr. Peter Martone: The ostrich needs to stick to you.
• 13:28
  Dr. Peter Martone: They're the stomach sleepers.
• 13:29
  Dr. Peter Martone: They need all of that pressure on their chest.
• 13:33
  Dr. Peter Martone: They put pillows over their heads.
• 13:34
  Dr. Peter Martone: They need to stick their head in the ground to feel safe.
• 13:37
  Dr. Peter Martone: The armadillo curls up in a ball.
• 13:40
  Dr. Peter Martone: The gorilla has no enemy, so it can fall asleep anywhere.
• 13:43
  Dr. Peter Martone: The gorilla has no enemy, so it can fall asleep anywhere.
• 13:45
  Dr. Peter Martone: So, depending on which avatar you are, then I can tell you how you need to create safety in order to fall asleep in the aligned position, and then the avatar tells us what technique you need to use to shut off the conscious brain.
• 14:01
  Philip Pape: Okay, that makes sense.
• 14:02
  Philip Pape: And before we go further, one thing that always comes up for me is the ability to fall asleep doesn't always correlate with the restfulness of the sleep, right?
• 14:12
  Philip Pape: So when someone has no problem just falling asleep, I imagine it's still possible that they're still not in the maximum safe position for them just because of that.
• 14:22
  Philip Pape: Is that correct?
• 14:23
  Dr. Peter Martone: Yeah, and that's where, like the five pillars of sleep and body temperature, what time you're eating stimulants you have.
• 14:30
  Dr. Peter Martone: We have this way better sleep academy where we address all of that, because once you close your eyes, people are like, oh, I can have a cup of coffee and fall right asleep.
• 14:37
  Dr. Peter Martone: Oh yeah, you can.
• 14:37
  Dr. Peter Martone: Of course you can, but your heart rate's still high, keeping you out of deep sleep, so you're not getting deep restorative sleep.
• 14:43
  Dr. Peter Martone: Test still high, keeping you out of deep sleep, so you're not getting deep restorative sleep.
• 14:48
  Dr. Peter Martone: Testosterone levels are going to be cranked, adrenal glands are going to be cranked, but you wake up eight hours later and you think you slept great, but you didn't go through the natural cycles.
• 14:52
  Dr. Peter Martone: And that's all the technical aspects of sleep.
• 14:55
  Dr. Peter Martone: And so what we really try to do, especially for that performance in that athlete, when you're looking at pain, pain is biomechanics.
• 15:06
  Dr. Peter Martone: Biomechanics follow head position.
• 15:08
  Dr. Peter Martone: So most people that have a shoulder issue or a hip issue have a neck issue because their head's too far forward and, due to the writing reflex, your balance is getting thrown off because most people are going to lean to the side of a sprained ankle.
• 15:20
  Dr. Peter Martone: So the balance is coming over and the spine is twisting the head's coming forward, then you put that on the load in the gym.
• 15:27
  Dr. Peter Martone: Then you're just going to hurt something.
• 15:29
  Dr. Peter Martone: Because we want to start with alignment at night, especially for the athlete.
• 15:35
  Philip Pape: Okay, so just a little bit more on the biomechanics and the physiology behind this, and then I want to get some practical tips for folks.
• 15:42
  Philip Pape: You mentioned the nervous system.
• 15:43
  Philip Pape: Where does the vagus nerve come in here?
• 15:45
  Philip Pape: I think you talk about that a lot in your work as well.
• 15:48
  Philip Pape: Why that matters.
• 15:50
  Philip Pape: It also comes up when talking about stress and relaxation and meditation and all sorts of other topics.
• 15:57
  Dr. Peter Martone: Yeah, so the vagus nerve controls sleep.
• 15:59
  Dr. Peter Martone: So the opposite of sleep is awake.
• 16:02
  Dr. Peter Martone: So awake is sympathetic dominance.
• 16:04
  Dr. Peter Martone: So the opposite of lifting would be growth.
• 16:08
  Dr. Peter Martone: So you have growth in defense.
• 16:10
  Dr. Peter Martone: So when you are engaging the muscle, your body is in defense.
• 16:14
  Dr. Peter Martone: When you are repairing the muscle, the body is in growth.
• 16:17
  Dr. Peter Martone: So those two things are like a seesaw.
• 16:19
  Dr. Peter Martone: Each one of them is controlled by a very specific nervous system.
• 16:23
  Dr. Peter Martone: And the issue is the nervous system is controlled by our emotions.
• 16:27
  Dr. Peter Martone: So sympathetic stress whether you're running from a tiger because you're being chased or your body thinks you're running from a tiger, you're going to have a stimulation, you're going to have a stimulant response, which is why emotions affect sleep.
• 16:43
  Dr. Peter Martone: So the opposite of that is the parasympathetic nervous system.
• 16:47
  Dr. Peter Martone: So the parasympathetic nervous system 80% of all the healing that goes on in your body, your body's ability to sleep.
• 16:54
  Dr. Peter Martone: It controls three areas immune system, digestive system and reproductive system.
• 16:59
  Dr. Peter Martone: So most people don't just have a problem with one of those systems.
• 17:05
  Dr. Peter Martone: You have a problem with all three because there's an issue and a dysfunction within the vagus nerve.
• 17:08
  Dr. Peter Martone: Now, the important thing about the vagus nerve is that it comes out right at the base of the neck, so when you lose the curve.
• 17:17
  Dr. Peter Martone: You are just, you are tanking your vagal nerve function.
• 17:20
  Dr. Peter Martone: So because we sleep curled up in a ball, a lot of times people can't sleep because their vagal tone is getting compressed due to the loss of cervical curve and the position is reinforcing that inability, like a weak muscle for you to turn on that deep healing capacity of the vagus nerve, because it's being compressed like stepping on a garden hose.
• 17:45
  Philip Pape: Okay, great.
• 17:45
  Philip Pape: No, I'm glad you connected all those.
• 17:47
  Philip Pape: So then, if you want to capture a baseline of where you are now based on all of this I don't know if it's like HRV, because I know you've talked about HRV having a big potential impact and improvement when you address this but what would people want to be measuring, like right now today, knowing they haven't touched anything, and then you know, once they've addressed the neck positioning and other factors, they can see an improvement.
• 18:09
  Philip Pape: What would that be?
• 18:11
  Dr. Peter Martone: yeah, the best thing in this is that's how you brought it up.
• 18:14
  Dr. Peter Martone: And I don't care what monitor you're using, whether it's fitbit, whether it's apple, whether it's Fitbit, whether it's Apple Watch, whether it's Oura Ring, it doesn't matter.
• 18:22
  Dr. Peter Martone: You just need to be consistent.
• 18:23
  Dr. Peter Martone: Whatever you're monitoring.
• 18:24
  Dr. Peter Martone: And I like HRV, because HRV, which is heart rate variability, basically monitors the balance between the sympathetics and the parasympathetics, the balance between the sympathetics and the parasympathetics, the balance between the running from a tiger or that survive nervous system or that thrive nervous system.
• 18:45
  Dr. Peter Martone: When you are surviving and you're running from a tiger, that heart rate needs to be very rhythmic and the body needs to be able to depend on the amount of sugar getting to the cell like clockwork.
• 18:56
  Dr. Peter Martone: That's a rhythmic heart rate, believe it or not.
• 18:59
  Dr. Peter Martone: If you have a 60 beat per minute heart rate, that's one beat every second.
• 19:04
  Dr. Peter Martone: That's not good.
• 19:05
  Dr. Peter Martone: You want it variable, like bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum.
• 19:13
  Dr. Peter Martone: So one beat might be in 0.5 seconds, another beat might be in a second, Next one a second and a half, next one three quarters of a second.
• 19:17
  Dr. Peter Martone: So you want that variability within the heart rate because that means the parasympathetic nervous system is at play.
• 19:23
  Dr. Peter Martone: So when the parasympathetic nervous system is at play.
• 19:26
  Dr. Peter Martone: In your sleeping, your heart rate is very variable.
• 19:28
  Dr. Peter Martone: When you're awake and you're running from a tiger, it's very non-variable, so you can then take a reading over a period of a day and see how calm your system is and being able to see how well your body's repair.
• 19:42
  Philip Pape: That's one of the best explanations I've heard for HRV, because it's a confusing concept for people and even if you have an O-ring like I do, and you know you learn and dive into this subject people don't quite always get it, and your description of it being a gap between your sympathetic and parasympathetic meaning that the more of a calm state you can get into, the more it's going to vary is a good visual for that.
• 20:04
  Philip Pape: So then I guess then I want to get into the positioning stuff, because you talked about a pillow, you talked about the curling up and whatever based on the avatar.
• 20:12
  Philip Pape: I mean, what are all the things that people are going to potentially adjust when they fix their sleep position?
• 20:17
  Philip Pape: All right, sleep position.
• 20:17
  Philip Pape: Is this going to potentially adjust when they fix their sleep position.
• 20:19
  Dr. Peter Martone: All right, sleep position.
• 20:20
  Dr. Peter Martone: Is this going to be audio visual?
• 20:21
  Dr. Peter Martone: What is it?
• 20:22
  Philip Pape: it's mainly audio, I mean, you know, but but we have the video.
• 20:25
  Dr. Peter Martone: We do have the on youtube yeah, so this is what's going to do.
• 20:28
  Dr. Peter Martone: What I'm going to do is I'm going to put myself in the position and you're going to explain what I'm doing okay, all right, okay, here we got it so I will move my audio here.
• 20:40
  Dr. Peter Martone: My thing oh, I got my spine on the bed, so I'm going to be using right now to do a neck nurse.
• 20:47
  Dr. Peter Martone: This is something that we created, but if you have a soft down pillow or you have like a blanket, you can put under your neck.
• 20:55
  Dr. Peter Martone: What's important is that you support so anytime you support something in the body you can put under your neck.
• 21:00
  Dr. Peter Martone: What's important is that you support so.
• 21:00
  Dr. Peter Martone: Anytime you support something in the body, you weaken it Anytime.
• 21:03
  Dr. Peter Martone: I don't care what you're supporting.
• 21:04
  Dr. Peter Martone: Anytime you support the body, you weaken it.
• 21:06
  Dr. Peter Martone: So when you use a pillow a pillow is defined as a support for your head You're weakening the cervical curve in your neck.
• 21:15
  Dr. Peter Martone: You do not want to support your head when you sleep, but if you support your head or you use a cervical pillow and it goes under your neck and it's supporting your head at the same time, that's even worse.
• 21:26
  Dr. Peter Martone: So you want some sort of force.
• 21:30
  Dr. Peter Martone: If you have a bad curve, like I did, you want some sort of force applied to the neck that gently stretches and arch back into the neck and that would be distraction.
• 21:42
  Dr. Peter Martone: So you support your neck, but you use the weight of your head off of the back of the neck nest or whatever you're using, so that your head is basically almost three quarters of an inch or an inch off the bed and it's gently like a slinky, like a weight up the end of a slinky.
• 22:01
  Dr. Peter Martone: It's gently stretching the curve back into your neck, even though you're supporting the neck by using the weight of your head as a distractive force.
• 22:10
  Dr. Peter Martone: The body reacts to force, a force.
• 22:13
  Dr. Peter Martone: Stress is a force that causes change, so that is what will reintroduce the curve back into your neck.
• 22:20
  Philip Pape: Okay, yeah, it makes total sense.
• 22:22
  Philip Pape: So only support your neck.
• 22:24
  Philip Pape: Your head hangs back a little bit.
• 22:25
  Philip Pape: So Peter is about to lay down on his bed here in the video and he's just got a looks like a soft pillow squished up under his neck, just like he explained, and the back of his head is up a bit from the surface.
• 22:40
  Dr. Peter Martone: Yeah, I know.
• 22:41
  Dr. Peter Martone: And when most people okay, here we go, right, we're going to talk about this.
• 22:45
  Dr. Peter Martone: So when most people see that, right, it's like you're sleeping in a coffin the first thing that people say is I can't do that.
• 22:53
  Dr. Peter Martone: I get it, you do not have control Right now.
• 22:56
  Dr. Peter Martone: Any decision you're making is the conscious brain, so we know that that decision's flawed because the conscious brain makes all the excuses.
• 23:05
  Dr. Peter Martone: It's why you don't do it.
• 23:06
  Dr. Peter Martone: It's the problem.
• 23:07
  Dr. Peter Martone: So let's talk to your conscious brain.
• 23:09
  Dr. Peter Martone: Hello, consciousness, I get it.
• 23:11
  Dr. Peter Martone: You can't do that.
• 23:12
  Dr. Peter Martone: You're not in control.
• 23:13
  Dr. Peter Martone: I'm talking to your friend who is actually in control, like in my house my wife.
• 23:16
  Dr. Peter Martone: You talk to my wife if you want to get anything done.
• 23:18
  Dr. Peter Martone: So I'm going to talk to the subconscious brain.
• 23:21
  Dr. Peter Martone: Subconscious brain, I know you can do this, but what you're saying is it's not safe and you don't feel safe doing it.
• 23:28
  Dr. Peter Martone: Listen, all we need to do is fall asleep like this and then, once you fall asleep in this position every night, I don't care what you do.
• 23:37
  Dr. Peter Martone: So that's the lifestyle habit.
• 23:40
  Dr. Peter Martone: The lifestyle habit is not to be a back sleeper with something under your neck and think that you're not going to be able to sleep like that Get like what every other expert tells you.
• 23:49
  Dr. Peter Martone: Oh, you know, fall asleep on your side, that's the best position.
• 23:52
  Dr. Peter Martone: Listen, idiot, not an idiot talking like the subconscious brain.
• 23:57
  Dr. Peter Martone: You're not in control.
• 23:59
  Dr. Peter Martone: I'm not talking like the subconscious brain.
• 24:01
  Dr. Peter Martone: You're not in control.
• 24:01
  Dr. Peter Martone: Once you fall asleep on your side and your arm's in this position, try to watch a two-hour movie in the position you fall asleep in.
• 24:09
  Dr. Peter Martone: It's not possible.
• 24:10
  Dr. Peter Martone: So for somebody to tell you that you can fall asleep on your side and that's the best position, you're only in that position for 20 minutes and then the average person tosses and turns 20 to 40 times a night because they're giving them the wrong explanation, because they don't understand spinal biomechanics.
• 24:28
  Philip Pape: And when you do this thing with your neck, you don't do that, so like what?
• 24:30
  Philip Pape: Inevitably you're going to stay in that position.
• 24:32
  Philip Pape: Is that what you're saying?
• 24:33
  Dr. Peter Martone: Yeah.
• 24:33
  Dr. Peter Martone: So when you I don't want you to think about the whole night, but when you fall asleep in that position, right, everybody needs to start in that position, I get it.
• 24:43
  Dr. Peter Martone: Your airway might be an issue.
• 24:45
  Dr. Peter Martone: You snore, you have apnea.
• 24:46
  Dr. Peter Martone: It's worse in that position.
• 24:47
  Dr. Peter Martone: I get all of that.
• 24:48
  Dr. Peter Martone: We have tricks and tools to help people overcome those things, but you want to start the body in alignment.
• 24:57
  Dr. Peter Martone: Then the next trick is then be able to create the pressure from sleeping on your side, mimic that in the back sleeping position.
• 25:08
  Dr. Peter Martone: So, for instance, if I get all right, I'm going to show you one more thing right here.
• 25:13
  Dr. Peter Martone: So if I'm a back sleeper, if I'm a side sleeper, okay, I sleep on my side.
• 25:18
  Dr. Peter Martone: That's pressure against my face, okay.
• 25:22
  Dr. Peter Martone: So what you can do, you take neck nurse, put it on your neck but put a pillow against your face.
• 25:28
  Philip Pape: Put a pillow against your face on the side, okay.
• 25:33
  Dr. Peter Martone: Right or put a pillow on your side.
• 25:34
  Dr. Peter Martone: You is.
• 25:35
  Dr. Peter Martone: How important is it for you and how much safety or pressure do you need to create in order to allow the subconscious brain to have to stay in that position?
• 25:46
  Philip Pape: Oh man, okay, so, yeah, it makes total sense now.
• 25:49
  Philip Pape: So if your body is inclined to want to go onto its side, you're giving it the safety so that, even if it tries to, it's now snuggled in that pillow and you're remaining aligned.
• 25:57
  Dr. Peter Martone: Okay, beautiful, yeah, that makes total sense and nobody has ever this has taken so much understanding, because these concepts that you know we have, like spare breathing and all of these things, they didn't exist before, because everybody you know takes the.
• 26:14
  Dr. Peter Martone: They look at the 2015 study that was done on rats and say that side sleeping is the best for humans.
• 26:20
  Dr. Peter Martone: But even though there's a significant study, this is a gold standard.
• 26:24
  Dr. Peter Martone: The gold standard study that tells people that lymphatic drainage happens best on your side was done on a rodent.
• 26:31
  Dr. Peter Martone: The rodent spine is completely off the cervical spine is completely opposite the human spine and in there there's a significant, same say, significant statement saying, even though this was done on rodents, we're extrapolating that the same is going to be done for humans.
• 26:48
  Dr. Peter Martone: And this goes through the entire industry and and it's like it drives me bonkers.
• 26:53
  Dr. Peter Martone: So I said I gotta figure out where that study is, because I didn't know that it was done on rodents.
• 26:58
  Dr. Peter Martone: I'm like, because there's something flawed because lymphatic drainage only occurs with ease is if the cervical biomechanics are good, because it's flow of the heart with breath around the spinal cord that you you need that cervical spinal flow, and if you have a breakdown in the proper spinal biomechanics of your body.
• 27:19
  Dr. Peter Martone: You're backing all that stuff up cause like heart pressure, blood pressure and all sorts of different issues.
• 27:25
  Dr. Peter Martone: And that's when I saw the study and I'm like that makes perfect sense.
• 27:30
  Philip Pape: That makes sense.
• 27:30
  Philip Pape: Yeah, the findings were that, but it does not apply to humans.
• 27:34
  Philip Pape: I mean, I could tell you that from my girl's hamsters, that they're very different creatures than us.
• 27:37
  Stephanie: I could tell you that from my girls, hamsters, that they're very different creatures than us.
• 27:39
  Stephanie: The most value that I got from this was the fact that I had someone that I could talk to about anything and that there was going to be no judgment.
• 27:48
  Stephanie: It was just well, here are your goals, here's the best way that you're going to achieve it, and then let's work together to help you feel inspired and motivated to do that and there's a lot of people out there trying to be coaches and not all of them have done the work and also just be a genuine person that is positive and coming from the heart in terms of wanting to help, and Philip really embodied all of those qualities.
• 28:14
  Stephanie: I would recommend him to just about anyone that's looking to achieve goals in that realm of their nutrition and building new habits.
• 28:23
  Philip Pape: So we're going to break it down into different pieces here.
• 28:25
  Philip Pape: You mentioned somebody with shoulder pain right, and again, I know lots of people who lived right.
• 28:30
  Philip Pape: They have various issues that come across over time and sometimes they seem to not go away, even if they have surgery, even if they have physical therapy, even if they're doing everything they can to train around it.
• 28:39
  Philip Pape: Maybe it's because of their sleep.
• 28:41
  Philip Pape: I mean, how does that cascade or those mechanisms work to then say, somebody who had rotator cuff surgery and just never quite could recover, now, all of a sudden, is pain free?
• 28:51
  Dr. Peter Martone: You give me a side sleeper, I'm going to give you a shoulder problem.
• 28:55
  Philip Pape: Okay, so that's me, that's me.
• 28:56
  Dr. Peter Martone: I'm speaking for myself.
• 28:57
  Dr. Peter Martone: I can see it because your head shifted to the left side, your hip is going to go to the other side and your shoulder is internally rotated.
• 29:05
  Dr. Peter Martone: So when you have that, your body posture adjusts to head position.
• 29:09
  Dr. Peter Martone: Then Davis's law so writing reflex says body posture adjusts to head position, so the head comes forward.
• 29:15
  Dr. Peter Martone: Davis's law says tissue remolds based on the stresses applied.
• 29:19
  Dr. Peter Martone: So if you're sleeping on your side, you're internally rotating the shoulder, so you're stretching out and you're weakening most people because we're not rock climbers, we're not climbing things have inferior trap issues.
• 29:31
  Dr. Peter Martone: The inferior trap is the main muscle that causes shoulder issues and impingement syndromes.
• 29:38
  Dr. Peter Martone: Most people believe that the rotator cuffs are the problem.
• 29:41
  Dr. Peter Martone: They're not the problem, they're just they're getting worn down because the altered biomechanics of the shoulder, because the shoulder blades.
• 29:48
  Dr. Peter Martone: We have weak inferior traps.
• 29:51
  Dr. Peter Martone: The inferior trap is done only with one exercise Grab the bar and squeeze your shoulders together.
• 29:58
  Dr. Peter Martone: So the blade needs to squeeze together and then that will bring the shoulders back.
• 30:02
  Dr. Peter Martone: But if you continue to sleep on your side, you're going to continue.
• 30:07
  Philip Pape: You're offsetting it?
• 30:08
  Philip Pape: Yeah, cause even uh, dead hangs are known to be helpful.
• 30:11
  Philip Pape: But, like you said, if you're just making the root cause worse, it's not going to help, okay.
• 30:15
  Dr. Peter Martone: That is a good as long as you go up and down a little bit and just get that flow.
• 30:21
  Dr. Peter Martone: But that's what it's doing.
• 30:22
  Dr. Peter Martone: It's reversing what?
• 30:25
  Dr. Peter Martone: So?
• 30:25
  Dr. Peter Martone: The rotator cuff right, supraspinatus, infraspinatus subscapularis and teres minor All of them, you know, most of them do this.
• 30:33
  Dr. Peter Martone: Only two of them do external rotation, but none of them really retract the shoulder blades, which is what causes the impingement syndrome, the shoulder riding up into the capsule.
• 30:42
  Philip Pape: Makes a lot of sense.
• 30:43
  Philip Pape: So I assume similar logic follows for everything down the whole posterior chain when you get to the low back, because low back's the next big hitter, would you say, or from your experience.
• 30:52
  Dr. Peter Martone: Well, the big hitter is the eyes right.
• 30:54
  Dr. Peter Martone: So it's the eyes.
• 30:55
  Dr. Peter Martone: Everything wants to level the eyes Now, oh, I got a short right leg.
• 30:59
  Dr. Peter Martone: I got a short.
• 31:00
  Dr. Peter Martone: That's all bullshit.
• 31:01
  Dr. Peter Martone: Those are all adaptation to forward head posture.
• 31:05
  Philip Pape: Oh, when people say I have asymmetry or whatnot, that's what you're saying, yeah.
• 31:08
  Dr. Peter Martone: Yeah.
• 31:08
  Dr. Peter Martone: So most people are like oh, it's the leg, and they saw a therapist and they say I have to work down here.
• 31:16
  Dr. Peter Martone: I got to work on my core more.
• 31:17
  Dr. Peter Martone: It's not your core, it's not your core, it's proprioception, it's balance.
• 31:20
  Dr. Peter Martone: So it's innervation to the muscle.
• 31:21
  Dr. Peter Martone: See, muscles are minions.
• 31:22
  Dr. Peter Martone: They're always being told what to do.
• 31:24
  Dr. Peter Martone: They're being told by the neurology.
• 31:27
  Dr. Peter Martone: So if a muscle is in spasm, it's either moving something or protecting something.
• 31:31
  Dr. Peter Martone: That's it.
• 31:32
  Dr. Peter Martone: So we have to stop looking at the muscle structure and seeing why it's out of balance.
• 31:37
  Dr. Peter Martone: It's out of balance because we're losing.
• 31:39
  Dr. Peter Martone: I don't want to get technical, but it's all right, get technical.
• 31:43
  Philip Pape: It's all good.
• 31:43
  Dr. Peter Martone: The premise in our brain is atrophy.
• 31:46
  Dr. Peter Martone: So, for instance, for you, what I want you to do is go to your screen, look at me through your screen and bring that circle back to your eye.
• 31:52
  Dr. Peter Martone: What?
• 31:53
  Dr. Peter Martone: Do you mean Like, so make a circle, okay, yeah, and look at me through the lens of the iris of the webcam.
• 32:01
  Philip Pape: Okay, yeah, it's like a teleprompter, so hopefully I'm doing it All right, make it smaller, make a circle.
• 32:06
  Dr. Peter Martone: Now bring that back to your eye.
• 32:08
  Dr. Peter Martone: Okay, I could, so your right eye.
• 32:11
  Philip Pape: So now, oh, I see, yeah, you're telling me eyes that are dominant, and I got it.
• 32:15
  Dr. Peter Martone: Are you right-handed or left-handed?
• 32:16
  Dr. Peter Martone: Right-handed, do you kick with your right foot or your left foot, right foot and do you do anything ambidextrous?
• 32:22
  Dr. Peter Martone: No, okay, good, so you're fully lateralized.
• 32:26
  Dr. Peter Martone: So that fully lateralized neurology is a lot easier to work with than and if you kick a ball, you're going to kick it with your right foot, correct?
• 32:38
  Dr. Peter Martone: Yep, for sure it is a lot easier to work with.
• 32:41
  Dr. Peter Martone: Sleep wise, and one of the issues is you're constricted because I can see it in the way you stand in the frontal plane.
• 32:45
  Dr. Peter Martone: So what happens is, as we lean forward or as we atrophy the brain people walk forward.
• 32:51
  Dr. Peter Martone: That's why people have foot issues or toe issues.
• 32:53
  Dr. Peter Martone: Yeah, you can see it right there.
• 32:55
  Dr. Peter Martone: So when you're leaning forward, so when you go to sleep on your back, your body it's a lot of people are going to have nightmares, thinking because it's not safe, because the head's in that extension and you you're not safe in that that backwards plane.
• 33:10
  Dr. Peter Martone: So you want to work on balance to retrain the neurology, like we're working on a pack right now, on a specific wobble board that quantifies balance.
• 33:18
  Dr. Peter Martone: But you want to work on like, just get a wobble board, not a bose ball, it needs to be a wobble board, like really hard wobble board which is a circle with the ball on the bottom and you want to stand on it and and have upright posture.
• 33:31
  Dr. Peter Martone: Most I mean most people fall backwards or they fall forwards and they're constricted in one of those planes, but but that is what's firing the patterns wrong.
• 33:42
  Dr. Peter Martone: So with all of my athletes, I have them immediately work on balance, because that is the best way to retrain the symmetry of the body.
• 33:53
  Dr. Peter Martone: You don't look at it and say, oh, you need to do more on the left psoas, because you're not in control.
• 34:00
  Dr. Peter Martone: The subconscious brain's in control.
• 34:01
  Dr. Peter Martone: It's your nervous system.
• 34:02
  Dr. Peter Martone: Yeah, yeah, everything's the nervous system.
• 34:04
  Philip Pape: No, no, it makes sense, Like I'm thinking robots and gyroscopes and I'm thinking Segway, Like, oh, that's going through my engineering brain of how like all that stays balanced with counteracting forces that you don't even think about.
• 34:14
  Philip Pape: Think about just like with lifting.
• 34:19
  Philip Pape: You know, sometimes just being able to lift with the major movement patterns can resolve some quote unquote imbalances and such that people thought they had, because you're training things as a system, so you're talking about your nervous system.
• 34:27
  Philip Pape: So, okay, this is good, man, I didn't realize I'd get my own coaching session here, but this is good for people listening because they're like now they can walk through the process.
• 34:37
  Dr. Peter Martone: And you sprained your right ankle, by the way, just to let you know.
• 34:40
  Philip Pape: I sprained my right ankle.
• 34:41
  Philip Pape: Yeah, you think I did.
• 34:43
  Dr. Peter Martone: Turn your head to the left side my head to just my head, yeah.
• 34:47
  Dr. Peter Martone: And now turn your head to the right, as far as it'll go.
• 34:49
  Dr. Peter Martone: See how far you go to the right side and you don't go as far to the left.
• 34:52
  Dr. Peter Martone: Yeah, that's coming up from an old ankle sprain.
• 35:04
  Dr. Peter Martone: So the talus is pumped forward.
• 35:05
  Dr. Peter Martone: It's possible, man, I've had injuries over the years.
• 35:06
  Dr. Peter Martone: It's possible, yeah, but your body is leaning to that ankle sprain and then the heads go in the opposite way.
• 35:08
  Dr. Peter Martone: So that's the mechanics, so you know, so that biomechanics of that right ankle need to be addressed.
• 35:11
  Dr. Peter Martone: So you stand in on one foot on that wobble board, you work on proprioception, you retrain the brain to get out of pain.
• 35:18
  Dr. Peter Martone: That's where, like, all of my work was done in that whole area before, and then it moved into the ADD world, then into the sleep world.
• 35:27
  Dr. Peter Martone: So that's kind of where all that stuff is put together.
• 35:29
  Philip Pape: Wobble board sounds like fun.
• 35:30
  Philip Pape: It reminds me of the.
• 35:31
  Philip Pape: Uh what would?
• 35:31
  Philip Pape: I grew up in the eighties.
• 35:32
  Philip Pape: They had the.
• 35:33
  Philip Pape: It looked.
• 35:33
  Philip Pape: It looked like a board with the ball.
• 35:34
  Philip Pape: That was the pogo ball.
• 35:35
  Philip Pape: I know you said not that like the hard one, but still made me think of that.
• 35:39
  Philip Pape: What about people with um, like sleep apnea, snoring issues, does?
• 35:43
  Philip Pape: Where does that come into play with all of this?
• 35:45
  Dr. Peter Martone: no, that's great.
• 35:46
  Dr. Peter Martone: Those are things that have to be overcome with airway management, but it does not change the position.
• 35:51
  Dr. Peter Martone: So we have to have anchors.
• 35:53
  Dr. Peter Martone: An anchor is something that is is law 100 of the time.
• 35:57
  Dr. Peter Martone: So so writing reflex Davis' law, wolf's law and these are laws that they're not denied it's like gravity.
• 36:04
  Dr. Peter Martone: You can't deny that.
• 36:05
  Dr. Peter Martone: So in one of the laws that we've applied, is that your nervous system controls everything in the body.
• 36:12
  Dr. Peter Martone: How important is it that nervous system functions optimally Extremely important While the spine protects your central nervous system.
• 36:19
  Dr. Peter Martone: How important is it to maintain the integrity of the spine versus a 2% increase in heart rate, blood pressure when you sleep on your back?
• 36:27
  Dr. Peter Martone: It's absolutely asinine when you're looking at things and comparing them to the overall yeah trade-offs.
• 36:33
  Philip Pape: first principles yeah, right.
• 36:35
  Dr. Peter Martone: So everybody, regardless of the airway.
• 36:38
  Dr. Peter Martone: That's where the academy can come in, right.
• 36:41
  Dr. Peter Martone: It can help people overcome things with understanding and learning.
• 36:44
  Dr. Peter Martone: We're doing high level view, but you should always just start on your back with the pillow under your neck, put the body into alignment, create safety and then you know remember yourself to sleep, don't think yourself to sleep.
• 36:58
  Dr. Peter Martone: So you got to get out of your own mind and you put those three things together.
• 37:02
  Dr. Peter Martone: It'll transform the way that you sleep and will transform your results in the gym and improve your performance.
• 37:08
  Philip Pape: Something came to mind just totally off the wall.
• 37:10
  Philip Pape: Is there any connection with your dreams and this like level of safety in the way you sleep?
• 37:14
  Philip Pape: Like you mentioned the falling back, and I'm like I've always had dreams where I'm falling at the end in my nightmare and that's how I wake up.
• 37:20
  Dr. Peter Martone: Yeah, because you're losing Remember.
• 37:23
  Dr. Peter Martone: Your dreams are in this weird space in the brain that nobody understands.
• 37:28
  Dr. Peter Martone: Yeah, true, and if you are losing balance and your head is in a position you're going to stimulate some sort of vertigo, let's say in your head you're going to feel like you're falling off.
• 37:40
  Philip Pape: Yeah, yeah, I was just curious about that man.
• 37:42
  Philip Pape: This stuff fascinates me.
• 37:43
  Philip Pape: I'm a very skeptical person, very rational minded, but the more I've talked to experts like you and understand that there there is a rational principle basis for this stuff when you really explore it, and it's fascinating.
• 37:58
  Philip Pape: So and then the other thing is my.
• 38:00
  Philip Pape: You know, sleep masks are big now and weighted blankets and all of this other stuff.
• 38:04
  Philip Pape: Are there any any things like that that could either get in the way or help in all of this that we should like maybe stay away from or I love pressure, love pressure in the eyes.
• 38:11
  Dr. Peter Martone: You can use a sleep mask.
• 38:13
  Dr. Peter Martone: You can use a pillow over your head.
• 38:14
  Dr. Peter Martone: You can use a sock.
• 38:16
  Dr. Peter Martone: I've used a shirt.
• 38:18
  Dr. Peter Martone: When you travel, it's important to create a cocoon of pillows all around you, stuff them everywhere.
• 38:25
  Dr. Peter Martone: Pressure is what creates safety.
• 38:27
  Dr. Peter Martone: That's why babies like to be swaddled.
• 38:30
  Dr. Peter Martone: That's why the weighted blankets work with some people.
• 38:34
  Dr. Peter Martone: I don't use a weighted blanket, I just put my covers up underneath my chin close.
• 38:38
  Dr. Peter Martone: I put some on my eyes.
• 38:39
  Dr. Peter Martone: I just create that safety type of feeling.
• 38:43
  Dr. Peter Martone: I'm more of a gorilla avatar, but I do need the safety.
• 38:46
  Dr. Peter Martone: But I don't like all that pressure.
• 38:49
  Dr. Peter Martone: I don't like the weighted blanket personally, but I do use it a lot with some of my clients.
• 38:54
  Dr. Peter Martone: So I do love the idea of doing that.
• 38:57
  Dr. Peter Martone: One thing interference Melatonin interferes with sleep cycles.
• 39:02
  Dr. Peter Martone: Right, it knocks you out.
• 39:05
  Dr. Peter Martone: Sleeping medication knocks you out, but you don't get good, deep, restorative sleep.
• 39:13
  Dr. Peter Martone: Sleep for the bodybuilder or the athlete is the first third of your sleep cycle.
• 39:21
  Dr. Peter Martone: The most important sleep for the anxiety, the ADD, the people that need to quantify their emotional stuff in their brains, is the last third of your sleep.
• 39:31
  Philip Pape: Right, is it deep and then REM?
• 39:32
  Philip Pape: Yeah.
• 39:32
  Dr. Peter Martone: So the body healing is done in the first third brain heal.
• 39:35
  Dr. Peter Martone: Mind recategorizing is done in the first third brain heal of mine recategorizing it is done in the um in the last third.
• 39:42
  Dr. Peter Martone: I need it all because I got add.
• 39:45
  Dr. Peter Martone: No, I can't super.
• 39:46
  Dr. Peter Martone: You know athletic, so I I really am so disciplined on recharging if I want performance during the day.
• 39:55
  Dr. Peter Martone: It starts with me at 9.30 when I go to bed and then when I wake up, my daily rituals that I choose.
• 40:03
  Dr. Peter Martone: I know how I'm going to sleep that night.
• 40:05
  Dr. Peter Martone: So it's not that you can just work on sleep and close your eyes and be healthy and have great sleep.
• 40:10
  Dr. Peter Martone: It's really who do you need to become?
• 40:13
  Dr. Peter Martone: Nobody wants to waste eight hours in bed.
• 40:15
  Dr. Peter Martone: They want who they're becoming because they're getting better sleep.
• 40:18
  Philip Pape: Yeah, I agree.
• 40:18
  Philip Pape: And what about wasting six and a half hours in bed?
• 40:20
  Philip Pape: Because the other question is people are wondering well, what does Peter think about just sleep duration, like what are your thoughts on that?
• 40:27
  Dr. Peter Martone: Sleep duration does vary.
• 40:28
  Dr. Peter Martone: I need a lot of sleep, but basically what you do is simply what we talked about at the very beginning.
• 40:33
  Dr. Peter Martone: You keep taking your HRV.
• 40:36
  Dr. Peter Martone: Take a day when you're at your best and see where your HRV is.
• 40:40
  Dr. Peter Martone: That's your target.
• 40:42
  Dr. Peter Martone: Then you want to increase that by 15% to 20%, or if you're never feeling your best, you want to increase that by 20% to 30%.
• 40:50
  Dr. Peter Martone: So you do the thing.
• 40:51
  Dr. Peter Martone: If you're not where you want to be, you need more sleep or you need to improve your quality.
• 40:55
  Dr. Peter Martone: But I like the number eight right Eight hours of sleep.
• 40:57
  Dr. Peter Martone: I like the number eight right Eight hours of sleep.
• 40:59
  Dr. Peter Martone: I think the more athletic I am, I need nine, nine and a half hours of sleep.
• 41:03
  Dr. Peter Martone: Sometimes If I'm not doing a lot, then I can get away with less.
• 41:09
  Philip Pape: Yeah, yeah, I know it's tough for a lot of people, but baby steps right Like one thing at a time.
• 41:13
  Philip Pape: So I guess one of my last questions here then is is the best place to start?
• 41:17
  Philip Pape: Besides, we're going to send them to your links and all that.
• 41:19
  Philip Pape: Don't worry, peter, they're going to go through all that, figure out what you've got to offer them.
• 41:22
  Philip Pape: Is it the pillow, or is there any other tip that you usually like to share with folks that they should come out of this with?
• 41:28
  Dr. Peter Martone: The best thing to start is start with positioning.
• 41:30
  Dr. Peter Martone: Yep, start with positioning first.
• 41:32
  Dr. Peter Martone: Don't say you can't is.
• 41:41
  Dr. Peter Martone: That just lives in your own conscious brain.
• 41:42
  Dr. Peter Martone: You start with positioning.
• 41:42
  Dr. Peter Martone: You then create pressure in some way.
• 41:43
  Dr. Peter Martone: Just use a sleep mask, use a pillow over your forehead, doesn't matter.
• 41:45
  Dr. Peter Martone: And then, the biggest thing that I help people to get to sleep and I glanced over this so I want to go back to it think about the nervous system.
• 41:54
  Dr. Peter Martone: You have nervous system at play.
• 41:57
  Dr. Peter Martone: When you are running from a tiger and you have to be quick with it, you know the blood's in the front portion of your brain.
• 42:06
  Dr. Peter Martone: You need to think.
• 42:07
  Dr. Peter Martone: When you're running from a tiger and react, you know it's the opposite of thinking.
• 42:16
  Dr. Peter Martone: It's either remembering or letting go.
• 42:19
  Dr. Peter Martone: So you can't think yourself to sleep because the blood's going to go to the sympathetic state and it's going to block you from sleep.
• 42:25
  Dr. Peter Martone: So if you're falling asleep and you're like I can't do this, I can't fall asleep like this, this is not going to happen or you're living in hate, anger, envy, fear.
• 42:36
  Dr. Peter Martone: Those emotions are going to keep you out of sleep.
• 42:38
  Dr. Peter Martone: Fear, envy, fear those emotions are going to keep you out of sleep.
• 42:43
  Dr. Peter Martone: Now, if you talk about things like love, respect, gratitude and you give in to like an old memory.
• 42:47
  Dr. Peter Martone: We have a thing that we call a sleep memory.
• 42:49
  Dr. Peter Martone: Walk around a golf course in your head.
• 42:51
  Dr. Peter Martone: If you golf a rhythmic, go from every hole, think about every sand trap, you'll be asleep by like the night hole.
• 42:58
  Dr. Peter Martone: And then, once you walk that golf course, once walk the same golf course over and over and over again, that rhythmic memory your body will link to sleep and you'll fall asleep real quick.
• 43:10
  Philip Pape: I like counting sheep.
• 43:10
  Philip Pape: You'll sleep tight, just like it says on your wall oh man, this has been super valuable.
• 43:16
  Philip Pape: Peter, is there anything else you wish I had asked?
• 43:18
  Philip Pape: I mean, I think we covered a lot in one, you know, jam packed topic here.
• 43:22
  Philip Pape: Was anything else you wish I had asked about this topic?
• 43:25
  Dr. Peter Martone: I like data that identify things that we can control.
• 43:27
  Dr. Peter Martone: So the first thing we have to understand is heart rate needs to drop down, respiratory needs to drop down and core temperature needs to drop in order to get good quality deep sleep.
• 43:48
  Dr. Peter Martone: You can't do that by exercising too late at night, right before sleep, and you can't do that by eating too late, because if your body's digesting, you're producing heat, your heart rate's staying up and your metabolism will stay stimulated.
• 44:03
  Dr. Peter Martone: So you want to go to sleep really clean.
• 44:06
  Dr. Peter Martone: I guess you can say so.
• 44:08
  Dr. Peter Martone: I have a rule no more than 300 calories within three hours of going to bed, and if it's a big meal, you want to have that at like 5 pm in the afternoon.
• 44:18
  Philip Pape: You hear that everyone.
• 44:18
  Philip Pape: It's another reason to maybe train earlier in the day.
• 44:21
  Philip Pape: And also, don't eat too late.
• 44:22
  Philip Pape: And for us who are like bulking, which I am right now, that's a little more of a challenge, right, because that just means you need to start early with your food and spread it out and not be too late, because I've noticed those numbers on the HRV and everything just go to hell when you eat too late.
• 44:37
  Philip Pape: With the amount of food I'm trying to eat right now, so, thank you, Peter, for all of that.
• 44:41
  Philip Pape: Where can listeners find more about TORQ?
• 44:42
  Philip Pape: Where should they start to get the assessment and then find out more about what's available?
• 44:46
  Dr. Peter Martone: Just go to drsleeprightcom that's D-R-S-L-E-E-P-R-I-G-H-Tcom.
• 44:52
  Dr. Peter Martone: Take your free animal sleep avatar test.
• 44:54
  Dr. Peter Martone: Then you're in my world.
• 44:55
  Dr. Peter Martone: You'll be able to find out anything from me from there, and always on Instagram at drsleeprightcom.
• 45:00
  Philip Pape: Awesome and I'm going to take advantage of some of this stuff myself.
• 45:03
  Philip Pape: I'm definitely going to do the pillow thing tonight and I'm glad we spoke, because I'm happy to report back after seeing some improvement or checking out your stuff, and I'm glad the listeners got to learn from you today.
• 45:13
  Philip Pape: So thank you so much for taking the time to be on here All right.
• 45:15
  Dr. Peter Martone: Thank you so much for having me.