Latest / Awakening Soul Divinity / Why Do I Know What I Need to Do But Still Avoid It? | Steve Ray

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Why Do I Know What I Need to Do But Still Avoid It? | Steve Ray · Awakening Soul Divinity

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Awakening Soul Divinity, your sacred space for deep
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healing and transformation. Listen to inspiring conversations with healing experts,
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spiritual guides, and teachers as we explore ancient wisdom, modern healing,
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and powerful stories of change. I'll also share practical insights
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from my personal journey from spiritual crisis to inner purpose.
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Whether you're seeking to overcome anxiety, embrace your true nature,
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or awaken your higher self, this podcast offers guidance to
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help you transform your life and elevate collective consciousness. Welcome, Steve.
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Thanks for being here with us today.
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Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.
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Speaker 1: Absolutely.
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Speaker 2: Glad to be here.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm glad you're here. I'm excited about this. And
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to the audience, I just want you to know, just
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as a starter, Steve and I have been friends for
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eight years. I don't even know anymore. At least, what,
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since 2018 or something like that? Is that right? Yeah.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so.
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Speaker 1: Okay.
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Speaker 2: Okay.
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Speaker 1: So we know a lot about each other in respect
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to our growth journeys. And he's been a great friend
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of mine. And we had a conversation and I asked
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him if he wanted to do this. And we had
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already talked about him doing something similar as this. And
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so here we are just seeing what happens because I've
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never done a conversation or an interview. Well, I have
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done an interview with someone I know well, but I've
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never had a conversation like this with someone I know well.
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So let's see what happens.
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Speaker 2: Okay.
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Speaker 1: And I'm going to preempt with the fact that I
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just went through something myself this morning. So let's see
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what happens with that because that pushed me into a
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different space in a good way. Uh, not while I
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was going through it, but it did. So having said that, Steve, um,
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As we're sitting here right now, we're going to talk
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about what feels most present or true in your life
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that you'd be open to exploring. So is it something
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maybe that was from your past that feels active and
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it's connected to what you're experiencing now? You had mentioned
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a couple of things and maybe it'll go there because
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we talked about this before and maybe it'll go somewhere else,
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which is fine because that's the point of having a
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conversation like this. What would you say is active within
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you right now in this moment?
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Speaker 2: There are a couple of things, but right now, the
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big thing is, and it's been kind of my life.
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I've put my life on hold in some ways, many ways.
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And avoidance is really what it's been. And I'm in
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a process right now of, dealing with that, working with
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that in a way that I haven't before, um, that's
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really about taking responsibility. It's about, um, willingness. It's a,
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to me, it's about willingness to look again at my
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life patterns and my life beliefs. And it's involved, um,
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doing work in some groups, doing some work with you,
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doing some body work. And I guess I can say
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that it's been, it's a challenge. It's been difficult. And
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there's also an opening that I can feel, but you know,
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I wanted to talk about that avoidance, you know, what,
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what that's about, why I do it, why, why many
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of us do it. Um, you know, try to explore
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what's behind that, get to a better perspective on it.
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My experience right now as I go through this is
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that there are beliefs that I have. There are, you know,
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very ingrained beliefs. It goes back to childhood.
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Speaker 1: Right. I just wrote that word down. Just that's why
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I'm laughing. Yeah.
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Speaker 2: But it goes back to childhood. And I'm, we had
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a conversation about a memory that I have. that's come
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up recently about being a little kid and I had
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to been three or four and I wanted to climb
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on my father's car because he had this Cadillac that
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was a mile long and I wanted to explore that.
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And I had that moment. So I got on the
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car and I started to move around on top of
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the car. And then my mother came out and everything changed.
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Shouldn't be on the car. And I got in trouble
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and I was threatened with your father gets home and
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you're going to get the belt. And it's like everything
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in life stopped and beliefs developing. Everything got caught in
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that moment of, uh-oh, I just got in trouble. And
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I'm forgetting the moment when the little boy stepped down
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and probably for a while wanted to explore what it
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would be like to get a new perspective and climb
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on the car. So what happens when there's that moment
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of curiosity and exploring, which is natural to a child,
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and then there's a consequence? And as I wrote when
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I was writing about this piece, this memory just on Saturday,
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I finished that piece by writing the sentence. And that's
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when I became afraid of myself.
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Speaker 1: Wow. So what is, and that's when I became afraid
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of myself. Hold on a minute. Let's stick, let's kind
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of go from here because You know, what's interesting, what
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I'm picking up on with my own life, in fact,
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is part of it, we have such a fear of
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repercussion or somebody saying no or somebody hurting us because
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of something that we did, whether it was mentally, physically,
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you know.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 1: Emotionally, whatever that looks like. And what it basically does,
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and believe me, you know, I've experienced those things throughout
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my life. And so it creates that pattern that gets
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stuck in our subconscious that shows us that if you
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do this, you will die because someone's either going to
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kill you or you're going to die on your own.
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And when that's not actually the truth, It's somebody else's
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voice in our head that's become repetitive. And we keep
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believing that if we do something, we have to get
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permission or if we do something wrong, you know, and
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then we keep building on that our whole lives. And
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it's like even taking one step out of where we're
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at and in that being afraid of ourselves still creates
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another fear because what it's doing is it's like, it's
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telling us, Oh no, no, it's, it's, it's our ego.
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And that's a good, the ego is a good thing,
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but it also stopped us from doing things that were
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meant to do because of that stuckness that we had
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happened to us, especially at that young of an age.
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And you also, we don't need to get into that
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one unless you want to, but you had a lot
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of things happen when you were that age. So it
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was like compounded into you that, If you do this,
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you're going to get in trouble for it. And if
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you do something that's natural to you, you're going to
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get in trouble for it.
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Speaker 2: Right.
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Speaker 1: And so when you do life now, there's something inside
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of you, it feels like, that's telling you, oh, no, no, no, no,
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don't do that, or somehow you're going to get in trouble. Well,
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the crazy part of that is, as an adult, you're
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not going to get into trouble, right?
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Speaker 2: Right.
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Speaker 1: Right? So it goes back to what we'll go back
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to the avoidance piece. So how when you keep walking
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into this and I know how you're walking into it
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because we've talked about it a gajillion times. Right. And
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when you go into this avoidance piece, what are you
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trying to protecting yourself? That's so scary. That is keeping
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you from living your life.
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Speaker 2: Right. And that's the big question.
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Speaker 1: See if you can answer it. Okay, let's do something
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we did when you were visiting me. So what does
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that feel like in your body and where can you
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feel that?
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Speaker 2: I usually feel it from throat down to belly. And
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it's like a sensation of both a catching on something and... a,
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like a, a metal door kind of closing, like you
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see in star Trek, you know, that thing, um, it's
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and it's fear. I mean, it's fear and it, the
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thing that's interesting about it is that, you know, to
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explore and give it attention without judgment. I find that
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it is a pattern. that's been so unconscious and so
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ingrained that I have lost contact really with it. It's
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just so automatic. So now to take a moment, like,
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you know, I was doing some craniosacral work the other
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day and there were a few things going on, but
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at one point there was fear that came up. It
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was just this very quick, automatic, I'm afraid.
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Speaker 1: Well, let me, let me stop you there because the
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point to this, and we did it before and I
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know how good we are, both of us at analyzing
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what it is. Are you willing to connect with that?
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Like you described it between your throat and your belly
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and belly is where we hold fear and throat is
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where we, um, lose our voice, that we can't say no,
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that we can't. So you've got this whole, and then
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you've got your broken heart, and then you've got the
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fire in your solar plexus that was stifled. You know,
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you've got all these things going on in here.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, right there.
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Speaker 1: Right? And I want you to kind of feel that.
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I want you to feel, like, focus on your throat.
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Focus on your heart. Focus on, even if you have
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to close your eyes, I don't care, because we've done
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this before. This is going to be a little different
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than I'm used to doing it. But just focus on
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those places only if you're willing to do that because
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it may come up. So if you are, go ahead.
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If you're not, let me know.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I'm feeling it now. I'm just getting in
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touch with it. Yeah. Okay.
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Speaker 1: And what does that feel like in your body? Like
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what's your body doing right now when you're focusing on
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it in those places? What's it doing?
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Speaker 2: It's tensing. Okay.
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Speaker 1: So it's protecting you.
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Speaker 2: Right. Yeah. Okay.
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Speaker 1: And that's what I want you to see is that
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the reason that you're avoiding all of these things in
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your life is because your body, not you, your thoughts
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have done this, your beliefs, like you said, all that stuff.
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But your body is protecting you from another reaction from
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your mother and the conclusion from your father. It's like
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constantly moving in the same cycle over and over and
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over again. And you want to break it. But like
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most people like me, too, it's like I'm thinking about
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what that is and what that looks like and how
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I can fix it and how I can fix the
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fact that I'm broken and all these different things that
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that's not the thing that's actually going to fix it.
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It's feeling that feeling that you felt when you were
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a child and went through that. And experienced it that
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still is choking you enough to avoid your entire life.
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Speaker 2: Right.
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Speaker 1: So when I say that, what does that feel like?
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Speaker 2: It's the same kind of feeling. It's just like it's
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gotten heavier.
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Speaker 1: By me saying it or by your process?
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Speaker 2: I think by saying it, you know, to... you know,
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it's acknowledging that.
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Speaker 1: So your body's protecting you more because of that, because
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now there's an awareness.
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Speaker 2: I mean, like, did you recognize this? What's that?
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Speaker 1: Before I said that, did you recognize this or is
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the awareness coming from what I said?
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Speaker 2: Both. Okay. Okay.
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Speaker 1: So you're protecting for sure. Okay.
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Speaker 2: And then it's, because in there, there's fear, there's shame. Okay.
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Speaker 1: Yep.
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Speaker 2: You've got, you know, there are two things going on.
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So in there, there's, there's, you know, there's grief. I
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can feel, you know, grief coming up and, you know,
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around my, in my neck. It's, you know, there's this
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feeling of like a, a constant low level sense of inadequacy, sadness.
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Speaker 1: Okay. And Wait, before you go on, because you know
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I'm going to do this to you. Let's stay in
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those feelings. Are you willing to stay in those feelings?
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I realize that we're on camera, but are you willing
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to stay in those feelings? Are you willing to feel
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that grief right now?
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Speaker 2: Yes, let's go with it.
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Speaker 1: Okay, so go right into the grief the way you
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normally do.
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Speaker 2: Knowing.
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Speaker 1: That you didn't do anything wrong as a child. You
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were exploring.
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Speaker 2: Right. Yeah. I was.
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Speaker 1: What's coming up?
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Speaker 2: Confusion. Resentment. And a little bit of, oh, yeah. You know,
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I can feel, yeah, this sense of guilt. Wow.
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Speaker 1: Okay. So... All of these feelings, first I'm going to
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go back to remind you of why you avoid things.
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If you feel guilty, you're going to stop yourself from
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doing what you want to do because you think you're
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going to hurt yourself or somebody else or whatever that is.
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Speaker 2: Right, yeah, yeah.
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Speaker 1: The resentment is there because you've been dealing with this
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for a really long time. Yes. The confusion is there,
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and I want to see if this resonates with you because,
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and this is important for you as a man, maybe,
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to recognize that, you know, in our culture, in this country,
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in the U.S., where we are, there's one version of
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being a man where it's like, you know, a high-powered,
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action-oriented person. Don't cry, all that kind of stuff. And
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then there's another version that gets stifled inside of you
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because it's not allowed out. So when I hear you
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say confusion, that's what that sounds like to me for
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you as a man. Now, I want you to speak
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through yourself to other men on this as best as
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you can on what it feels like. in how that,
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if that resonates with you. Does that make sense when
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I ask that?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so.
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Speaker 1: Because how can you be the man that people expect
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you to be when you feel like you're nothing inside?
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When you feel like who you are is not good
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enough for anybody? How do you be that man when
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that's happening?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, first response to that is you fake it. I mean, you,
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and that doesn't mean you, uh, Or I would know
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what I'm doing, but there's a shutdown that happens. There's
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a facade that's put up. The entire time, there's a
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sense of, as I've said before, feeling like that child internally.
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Feeling like this five-year-old, four-year-old kid who is powerless and...
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does not have, and I would say speaking, you know,
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in my experience, cannot have a voice and it runs
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the gamut from asked, what are we having? You know,
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what do you want for dinner? And, and going into,
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I'm going to not say anything about what I want
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because I've experienced in the past that someone doesn't like
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that suggestion. Or it goes to when there's, especially if
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there's a confrontation with someone else, or there's a, in
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a relationship, there's a discomfort with the other person and
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maybe what they're doing or a conflict, you know, with
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them expressing themselves. And instead of having, feeling like, I
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have a right to speak my mind. I don't, so
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I'll shut down and comply. Rather than deal with my
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feelings that are saying, well, I really don't like that
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or I disagree. And there is a, it's so automatic.
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It's so automatic. It's ingrained. And in my experience, don't
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even realize I'm doing or have done it. That, you know,
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there's this shutdown and there is this conflict internally, in
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my case, because I've got that voice saying, I don't
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like this. And I've got this voice saying, and you
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better be quiet.
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Speaker 1: Okay, so... Before you go any further, that I hear
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that makes a lot of sense. I mean, it's it's
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pulling out the shame. It's pulling out like the conflict
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part sounds like it's pulling out the grief because you
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don't know what to do because you're losing something that
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you think you never had, maybe. And you're resisting something
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that you are avoiding something that you don't know how
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to move into because of the shame and because of
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the guilt. And because of, you know, you said the
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word shutdown, you have been shut down your entire life.
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I know you well enough to say that to you,
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you know, and for you to be able to step
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out of that shutdown. The only like if you knew
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someone that you were deeply that you deeply care about.
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and you see they're hurting and you want to support that,
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would you shut them down or would you sit with
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them and support that? Because I already know the answer
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to this. I've watched you do it with me. So
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what would you do with the other person?
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Speaker 2: Well, I would support them and and walk through it
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with them. Okay.
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Speaker 1: So why aren't you doing that with yourself?
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Speaker 2: Well, there, yeah, that's the question.
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Speaker 1: Um, so if you knew the answer, right. Yeah.
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Speaker 2: I knew the answer. Um, you know, it really, it does,
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it gets, you know, yeah. Into that. Why, what, what
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is the difference between someone else and me? And right now,
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as I'm working through this and, and having made, progress
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and continuing to be in this process, there's a belief
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in the body that part of what I've learned in
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doing things like ACA, which is Adult Children of Alcoholics
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and Dysfunctional Families, we're so ready and so hypervigilant to
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see someone else uncomfortable or someone else struggling and help them.
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It's automatic that to get to helping To me right now,
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it is as though taking care of others means that
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I'm doing something that I should do and taking care
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of myself. And this is where I'm kind of foggy
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in this, and this is where I'm in this process.
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Speaker 1: Okay, I was going to say finish that thought, please,
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because I just had this this morning.
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Speaker 2: But it's this, there is a disconnect. Yeah. and it's
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gotten better for me as I've done my work, but
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there is a major disconnect. And this, this energy, almost
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the only way I can say it is as if
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I don't have the right, but it's so ingrained that
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it's automatic. You know, I've got to get to, and
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I've gotten to the point of, of realizing, wait a minute,
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I have this very painful belief. It's painful that I
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don't have the right to express myself if, and it,
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It can be joy. It can be happiness. It can
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be excitement. But those are, you know, there's very few
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times feeling like, oh, maybe I shouldn't be happy in
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this situation. But if it comes to anger, sadness, these
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pieces inside myself that have traditionally been viewed as negative,
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somehow those are not allowed. And I certainly shouldn't have them.
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let alone express them to someone else because therein is
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this piece about the other big piece. What's the fear?
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What is so fearful about me saying, and I've done this,
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I'm angry at you. I don't like this situation. I've
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had times when I didn't like a situation and I've
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walked away from it. I've said, you know what? I'm
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going to go. Wait.
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Speaker 1: Hold on a second, because that's because I talk about
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this a lot with with men. And that's like, do
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you say something before you leave or do you passive
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aggressively walk away?
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Speaker 2: It's passive aggressively walking away. Yeah.
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Speaker 1: OK, so so but the thing that you brought up
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is like, let's let's go back into into you. And
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and this is very similar to what happened with me
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this morning was like the feeling that we have now.
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Is that we had no right.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, right, yeah.
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Speaker 1: That we have to comply, that we have to do this, whatever.
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But the feeling that that little boy, or in my case,
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my little girl, because I was parentified by my mother,
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I thought I had to control life to make sure
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that love stayed with me.
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Speaker 2: Right, yes, that makes sense, yeah.
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Speaker 1: And so... It sounds similar to, like, throughout my experiences
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in relationships, I had no right in those relationships because
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I was busy. Instead of just loving or being love,
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because that's what we are, or moving through life as love,
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I had to create this person that was fake.
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Speaker 2: You said it. Yeah.
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Speaker 1: And I shut down because I didn't know whenever, like
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every single relationship I was ever in, I was trying
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to maintain love that I needed when I was a child.
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And because I was trying to maintain it, I slowly
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forgot that I am that love.
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Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
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Speaker 1: And to me, that's where it kind of, well, it's
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going to link up with you because love is who
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we are. That's who we are. It's not what we do.
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It's who we are. So when we don't feel that
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love and we can't feel it, when we don't feel
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the love from other people, which it's not going to happen,
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they're not going to always meet us. They've got their stuff.
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And we think we have to, you know, adjust. And
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what is, I mean, some kind of a sports game
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where you have to basketball. There it is.
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Speaker 2: Okay.
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Speaker 1: It's like you're trying to protect the basket or whatever.
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But when we're doing that, we're protecting the love that
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we think is outside of us instead of living the
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love that is already inside of us. And when we
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do that, that comes back to us. avoiding life because
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we're so busy protecting ourselves that we forget how to
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actually be with ourselves. And I don't know whether or
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not anything I'm going to say is going to solve
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anything for you. That's not the point. I want you
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to see maybe a different viewpoint of what you're walking
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through and the audience can actually see what's happening for
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somebody in real time. And you know, I'm really grateful
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that you're doing this because this is, you know, this
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is being vulnerable. And holy cow, man, you're being vulnerable.
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So when I said all that stuff, what did you,
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what is like the main point that you heard me say?
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Because I was also talking about my stuff, which was
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affecting me while I was saying it. What was the
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main point of that that you heard?
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Speaker 2: Well, the love and how distorted Things have gotten so
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that for me, question comes up, well, what is love? Okay.
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And don't know.
26:54
Speaker 1: Right. I was going to say. So instead of trying
26:59
to say, I don't know, because love isn't, love doesn't
27:03
have a definition. Love exists, period. Right, right. Right. It
27:07
exists in the ethers. It exists as God. If you
27:10
believe that it exists as the divine, if you believe
27:15
that way, it exists as love exists as love. If
27:18
you don't believe in any of that stuff. Right. So
27:21
for you, if you could answer that question, what is
27:26
it like? I want to I want to know what
27:28
you're going to say, because I asked the same question
27:31
this morning.
27:32
Speaker 2: Right. It's it's quite a question.
27:35
Speaker 1: And.
27:36
Speaker 2: For me right now, it is mindfulness. It's something that's
27:41
going to, my sense as I go is it's going
27:43
to develop. Because again, coming to the realization, oh, what
27:48
is love? And then being in that moment of, let's
27:54
get out, you know, intellectualizing and, you know, I don't know.
27:58
Speaker 1: Are you saying that love is mindfulness or are you
28:01
saying that you use mindfulness to connect with love?
28:05
Speaker 2: I would say both because it's, for me right now,
28:09
the loving thing to do is to come back to
28:14
the present moment, is to be present. This morning I had,
28:19
you know, and this week has been interesting that noticing
28:23
this morning and yesterday especially, getting up and feeling this
28:29
draggy sense of kind of dread. Not an overwhelming sense
28:35
of dread, but a sense of, you know, I don't
28:38
want to do this. I don't like this. I'm not,
28:40
we won't get into this, but my job situation, which
28:42
we've talked about, you know, multiple times has changed. And it's,
28:47
I'm getting clearly the message. It's time to move on.
28:51
But in moments of mindfulness, noticing I'm getting up and I'm,
28:57
it's not even in words, but it's like this, I
29:00
don't like this. I don't want to do this. I've
29:02
got to get up to go to work. I'm in
29:04
this negative energy. I'm in this put upon energy.
29:08
Speaker 1: So before you go any further, let me ask you
29:10
this question. So when you're in mindfulness, what does that
29:16
look like for you? Like the mindfulness piece itself. What
29:20
does that look like for you? How is that connecting
29:23
you with love? Or is it showing you something? It's the,
29:28
for me, it's the noticing.
29:30
Speaker 2: Okay.
29:34
Speaker 1: That's what I wanted you to answer.
29:36
Speaker 2: It's the noticing that I'm doing that. This is what
29:39
I'm feeling. This is my experience right now. Without judgment
29:44
or as little judgment as possible. And that's, this is
29:47
a process. But it's noticing. Oh, I'm in this. And
29:54
it's also. Oh, okay. And I was. Yesterday morning and
30:00
this morning, I'm going, I'm sensing this is to the
30:04
point of this is a choice. This is an unconscious
30:07
that's becoming more conscious choice. Right. Because this, you know,
30:12
I'm not allowed this thing about love. There is no love.
30:15
It's like this feeling of it's a lovely concept. And
30:19
it's almost, you know, it sounds so good. Must not
30:22
be for me. Well, mindfulness and, you know, the support
30:27
I get with that. there's love in there because that
30:32
mindfulness says back to the moment, back to yourself, just
30:35
as you are. And this is what I'm experiencing. I'm
30:40
getting up this morning and I'm feeling like, right. And
30:44
to me, the loving thing is noticing it. It's a beginning.
30:50
Speaker 1: This is beautiful. Yes, it is a beginning. And the
30:53
mindfulness creates the space for you to get there, get,
30:59
I don't even want to do that. I want to
31:00
do this. You know, it's like getting to love is
31:03
not even outside of us. It's inside of us. So,
31:06
you know, walking through the process of using mindfulness to
31:11
come to be present with love is like a bridge.
31:16
It isn't actually what my understanding isn't actually what love is.
31:21
It's a bridge to love. And that makes perfect sense. Now,
31:25
what I want to ask you, though, is if you
31:28
could describe what love feels like, not in a programmed
31:36
societal way, but but an actual energetic way. What does
31:40
love feel like?
31:44
Speaker 2: Well, I'm going to start by saying, you know, my
31:48
ego wants to say, well, you know, come up with
31:49
the answer. You've got to have that, you know, that
31:51
like you said, that great answer for me. right now,
31:55
it feels like the genuine presence, complete presence here and now.
32:02
I will say to you that I've had a couple
32:06
of experiences, but the most profound I think has happened,
32:08
and this has been several years ago, but it was 2007,
32:12
when I was going through some major anxiety. I was
32:17
at work, and in the midst of that anxiety, I
32:21
had a very profound peace come over me. I'd let go.
32:24
And well, how did you let go? What did you do?
32:27
You know, what was the formula? Can't tell you other
32:30
than I noticed and was really aware that I was
32:33
in a lot of anxiety.
32:34
Speaker 1: Yeah.
32:36
Speaker 2: I was, if I could put a picture to it,
32:39
it was, I pictured in my head, the Hulk, the
32:42
incredible Hulk and how that, you know, and I had
32:46
to go do on my job. I do mail rounds
32:49
and I had, get up and go physically move, which helped.
32:54
But I also said, okay, you know, I just kind
32:58
of let the thought in, okay, I'm right here right now.
33:00
Let me just breathe. And I was able to let go.
33:03
And what love is right now, and it continues, is
33:08
that surrender. Is that letting go? You know, nothing, it's
33:16
something that, really something that nothing changes. I haven't, the degree,
33:22
the call that you got the degree hasn't happened. The
33:25
I got a million dollars hasn't happened. None of those
33:27
outer things. It's a very inside job. It's just letting go.
33:32
And I sat there after I got done, you know,
33:35
walking around. I remember sitting down and having a very
33:41
clear sense. This is what Jesus was talking about. This
33:44
is what the Buddha was talking about. It was complete presence.
33:49
And it was peace. That's how I could answer that question.
33:54
Speaker 1: So what I'm hearing you say is you're working through
33:59
your process of what love looks like and deciphering from
34:03
your experiences what that is. Am I right when I
34:09
say it that way? So when you disconnect from the
34:16
deciphering piece, If you connect with yourself, like, for example,
34:22
have you ever had any pets?
34:24
Speaker 2: Yes.
34:26
Speaker 1: If you could imagine one of the pets that stood
34:30
out for you, like the best one, the one that
34:33
was always there for you, all that, right? Then think
34:38
about what love feels like through that. And let us
34:42
know what, just a couple of words, what did that
34:45
feel like?
34:46
Speaker 2: God. Yeah. My cat Mizu who, yeah. Connection, warm and fuzzy.
34:52
You know, he was warm and fuzzy. He was there
34:55
for me. He was loving. He was, you know, he was.
35:01
Speaker 1: You're using loving as part of the distance.
35:03
Speaker 2: Right. But he was, he was present. And like, I
35:07
knew there was a connection there. It was wordless.
35:12
Speaker 1: Well, what, right. That's what I'm saying. It's like, Love
35:15
is a wordless connection. Love is energy. Love is not
35:19
a description. We can connect with it through certain things,
35:25
but it's always there. It comes through our pets. It
35:28
comes through other humans sometimes. But guess what? What I
35:32
learned this morning, it's also in here and comes through
35:35
us when we're able to recognize that. So it's the
35:39
same thing, like how you felt with your cat. is
35:44
how we get to feel with ourselves and move through
35:49
the world like that. We move through the world like
35:53
a cat.
35:54
Speaker 2: Right, right, right.
35:55
Speaker 1: We're just being us and we're present or whatever, you know,
35:59
and we have this love that we exude if it's
36:01
a loving cat. I mean, sometimes that doesn't work, but
36:05
what I'm saying is like cats move through life with
36:10
that energy or that flame of love, if they haven't
36:12
been traumatized themselves, right?
36:14
Speaker 2: Right.
36:15
Speaker 1: We are moving through life or were meant to move
36:19
through life with that same presence of love. So it's not,
36:24
it's almost like presence goes even deeper because love seems
36:29
to be the overriding thing. And that, and you said
36:32
Jesus and Buddha talked about this stuff. But they also
36:35
talked about coming, you know, this is what it feels
36:39
like and you can do it too. Right? Right. And
36:44
so it's like understanding or feeling what that love is
36:49
once you've understood what it might mean. That's the part
36:53
that like blew my entire world up this morning is
36:58
being able to be in or be that like a lighthouse.
37:02
Like we are the light. We walk through life. And
37:07
when we're walking through life as light from love, then
37:12
we don't need, this is the part that was really cool.
37:15
Let me get, we don't need to avoid anything because
37:18
all the things that we've ever wanted that are going
37:22
to come, not necessarily, you know, it may not be
37:25
good for us and it doesn't come. There's that too.
37:27
But the thing, we don't have to avoid anything. The
37:30
avoidance is there because of the trauma or because of
37:33
the experiences we've But there's also a space where as
37:38
we walk through our lives as love, that we're going
37:44
to start releasing everything that doesn't resonate with that love, right?
37:50
So when all these things start falling away, then we
37:53
see that that's what we are. And all the other
37:56
things that we have such a hard time with start
37:59
to dissipate because it's natural. That if you are walking
38:05
out in the world as love, you're going to attract
38:09
things into your life or people into your life who
38:13
vibrate at the same space. Right.
38:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, very true.
38:16
Speaker 1: And it's going to change everything. And so you won't
38:21
even have to figure out why you're avoiding things. It'll
38:24
just happen.
38:25
Speaker 2: It's crazy.
38:26
Speaker 1: And that's what I wanted. I wanted to get to that,
38:30
not for you as an understanding, more as a, Oh, well,
38:33
that's interesting type of thing.
38:35
Speaker 2: It's also, it's this, you know, doing this talk is
38:40
helping to integrate that. You know, like the cat. I
38:46
was thinking cats are fun. And then there's soft. There's warm.
38:50
You hold a cat. And it feels good. That's purr, right? So.
38:57
Speaker 1: There's also claws.
38:59
Speaker 2: Sure.
39:00
Speaker 1: And there's also... there's also boundaries. Cats have boundaries. Like
39:05
we can learn so much from them. So you're right.
39:09
There is that softness and that, you know, that feeling
39:12
there too. And everything is that and this and, you know, yeah, both.
39:18
And so, yeah, that's go ahead.
39:21
Speaker 2: And you know, the one, the one cat I'm thinking
39:23
of Mizu, who was a soulmate. He didn't like, to
39:30
be picked up. He and I had a connection. He
39:32
would look at me, and I said at one time,
39:34
you know, there's such love in his gaze for me.
39:38
Speaker 1: Yeah.
39:40
Speaker 2: And if I would pick him up, he would take
39:43
about two seconds to look at me and go, dude,
39:45
what are you doing? He didn't like to be picked up.
39:48
But that was his boundary. Yeah. So, okay. So let's
39:54
go back to shame, guilt, sadness, this little boy who's
39:59
sitting there, you know, and everything's trying to protect. I'm
40:02
asking you and just asking the universe though, but, and
40:06
already knowing the answer, isn't it? We're talking about the
40:10
same thing. That cat, that love, if I'm in, you know,
40:14
when I'm in the shame and the guilt, which is,
40:18
let's face it, Pretty much most of the time, either
40:21
to a greater or lesser degree, isn't that the same,
40:25
that that love is there. And when, especially when those
40:28
feelings are there, that part of my experience in me
40:33
can be loved. And the question and the experience I'm
40:38
working through, love being presence. Oh, I'm running around here
40:44
and I realize I'm, my throat is catching all morning.
40:49
I'm feeling ashamed. And, well, why are you feeling ashamed?
40:54
What happened specifically? No. That's always there, just is bubbling up.
41:02
And so it's that, can't it just bubble up? Yeah. Where's,
41:08
you know, when then is love? Go ahead.
41:11
Speaker 1: And in that, it's like giving ourselves permission. And accepting
41:18
the fact that we're humans and we're experiencing this. Like
41:22
you said, there's an experience. But we're experiencing this. But
41:26
we experience a whole level of different kinds of things.
41:30
And just being able to recognize and accept the fact
41:33
that that's there instead of analyzing why it's there. Because
41:38
we're constantly thinking that there's something wrong with us. And
41:42
there's not. So we go through years of... of personal
41:46
development and all these different things, you know? And, you know,
41:51
I listened to Panache and I share him with you
41:53
all the time. And a lot of this stuff has
41:56
been my aha moments because of that. But it's, it
42:00
keeps coming back to, you know, our, who we are
42:05
as humans and our connection with something bigger within us.
42:12
not necessarily outside of us, but because we think there's
42:15
something wrong with us, we're always looking for an answer
42:17
out there and it won't show up out there. That's
42:20
what I'm finding. And for you to be able to
42:24
connect with that piece of it, like I, as long
42:28
as we've known each other, I see you two to
42:33
three steps behind my discoveries. And when I see that,
42:38
like when I was in it, I wouldn't have been
42:42
able to, I would have been like going through it
42:46
like you are right now that I'm looking at you
42:50
hindsight 2020 or I remember doing this and I remember
42:54
doing that. I remember doing this. I have to really
42:57
hard refrain from, you know, come on, do it this
43:01
way because it's going to work, you know, that kind
43:05
of thing as a friend. And yeah, I also noticed
43:09
that everything that you, I mean, just the simple fact
43:12
that you're sitting here, not very many men will talk
43:16
this deeply, who will go into this stuff this deeply.
43:20
So for you to do this, let me say, that
43:26
is love. And you can't define that.
43:29
Speaker 2: Right.
43:30
Speaker 1: Because you are love as you're doing this, as you're
43:33
being vulnerable. So how do you define that? You can't.
43:36
And you will never figure that out. And you're probably
43:39
just like me, never going to figure out all the
43:42
things that happen and all the things that cause the
43:44
problems and why it caused the problems and what's going
43:47
on and this and that. Because I did that for
43:49
a long time. And now when I talk to you,
43:51
it's like you're so you're very close to recognizing you
43:55
don't even have to do that because I had that
43:58
aha moment today. It might take a little time. That's OK.
44:02
But it's there for you. That love is always there
44:05
for you. It's always in here. It doesn't need to
44:07
be searched out there at all. And now I'm understanding that.
44:13
Speaker 2: Right. Yes.
44:15
Speaker 1: And then waiting for it to come to me. It's not,
44:19
it won't happen. Right.
44:21
Speaker 2: Right.
44:22
Speaker 1: We have to, we have to come from our love
44:24
to go out there or even just be right. So.
44:29
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. It's very profound. I mean, it is, it
44:33
is felt. It's like, don't think about that. We are love.
44:38
Speaker 1: It's always in existence. That's the thing. It's like everything,
44:42
the energy around us, the energy inside of us, the trees.
44:46
You were here for a visit. You saw what that
44:49
looked like. That's love right there. You know, that's peace.
44:53
Like you talked about peace. That's all of it. It's
44:56
all always around us. But we've been so focused on
45:00
all the other stuff that we haven't been able to
45:03
see it.
45:04
Speaker 2: Right. Absolutely.
45:06
Speaker 1: That's the kicker. So if you want to close out
45:11
with something real quick, I have I'm going to ask
45:14
some questions that I ask all my guests. So I
45:16
don't know if you're are you complete in your sharing or.
45:20
Speaker 2: Yeah. OK. OK.
45:23
Speaker 1: OK. So when something in your life no longer feels right,
45:29
how do you meet yourself in that space now?
45:34
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. I'm beating myself with, I would say
45:44
right now, it's gone from total intellectualizing and criticism to
45:52
more of a 50-50, where I'll hear that judgy voice,
46:00
and what's coming up naturally is, okay, And, you know,
46:07
an awareness that that's not all there is. And a
46:11
more loving, just a more loving awareness of, you know,
46:15
this automatic, like I said about this week, waking up
46:18
with this, and instead of just being in that, what
46:21
bubbles up is that, okay, but where are you? Is
46:25
this certain, you know, like, it's almost, it's hard to
46:28
put into words, but just a felt sense of, Wait
46:33
a minute, it's okay. This is a piece of things,
46:36
not all of it. Like you're saying love. This is
46:39
a piece of it and, right?
46:41
Speaker 1: And you said it earlier, and I keep waiting to
46:45
hear that word and you haven't said it yet. Surrender. Surrender.
46:50
That's how you meet yourself now. Right. You surrender. Yeah.
46:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is.
46:55
Speaker 1: I know you. I get to do that with you.
46:57
I don't do that with everybody.
46:59
Speaker 2: Right. But it is. It is surrender. That's it.
47:02
Speaker 1: Yep. So what does awakening feel like for you in
47:07
your own experience?
47:10
Speaker 2: It feels open. It feels like my body relaxes.
47:16
Speaker 1: That's actually good.
47:17
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, because, you know, again, getting beyond thoughts and concepts.
47:23
Speaker 1: Yeah.
47:24
Speaker 2: Awakening is there may be that feeling of thought, oh,
47:29
it's not all there is. This isn't everything. This is
47:31
a piece. And I can feel my body relax, but
47:36
I can feel this sense of openness. And that's how
47:40
I can describe it. Yeah.
47:42
Speaker 1: And I'm going to add something to that because I
47:45
know you. When I first met you and for the
47:50
first maybe four years that I knew you with everything
47:53
both of us were going through.
47:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
47:57
Speaker 1: The way you describe that is so cool to me
48:01
because I'm happy to see you in that space now
48:03
because there was always, for both of us, there was
48:06
always this gripping tension, like all these things that were
48:11
going on and it's like protection and frustration and all
48:15
this stuff. I don't see that with you anymore. And
48:18
I think that's incredible. And that's where I get excited
48:21
in watching your journey because Because of the changes, I
48:27
think that's amazing, you know?
48:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, me too. How about that? Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
48:36
Speaker 1: Yeah. All right. Here it is. That's the smile I'm
48:39
used to. When you hear soul divinity, what does that
48:45
mean to you?
48:46
Speaker 2: Oh, my goodness. It means sacredness, acceptance. holiness you know
48:54
um and you know sunshine that's so cool you use.
48:59
Speaker 1: That descriptor sunshine on my shoulders yeah okay yeah i'll
49:05
get out of that space i was kidding you can
49:08
stay yeah okay if someone feels connected to you or
49:11
your work how could they find you and maybe even
49:14
give a little idea of the type of work that
49:16
you're doing too because i know you have that group
49:18
that writing group on saturday or not every saturday but
49:21
saturdays um.
49:26
Speaker 2: I would love to because i definitely feel drawn to
49:29
this kind of work and connecting with people um at
49:33
this point i can be reached you know on on
49:36
facebook and i am on instagram my facebook um Just
49:40
look up Steve Ray. I do some contemplative creative writing
49:45
with a small group of people right now every other week.
49:49
And it's a chance for people to explore an interest
49:56
that they want to write. It's not about writing a
50:00
great novel. It's not about judging or interpreting. And it's
50:03
a chance to take a prompt, write with it, and
50:06
just flow and get in touch with an inner prompt.
50:10
an inner curiosity that normally, you know, might be stifled.
50:16
I would love to write, but I've got to be
50:19
the great writer. No, you don't. What you have to
50:21
do is feel like you want to write, get a
50:23
pen and a piece of paper, and off you go.
50:26
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I will say, I have been in that
50:30
group a couple of times, and that has been part
50:35
of my journey in waking up some things within me too,
50:39
as a writer, as a person, as a woman, you know,
50:43
all of it. So the contemplative piece of it is
50:46
really powerful. And then having people there to support that
50:50
and show you what you don't see automatically because they
50:56
share what they see and we have a hard time
50:58
sometimes seeing it within ourselves. So that is like the
51:01
kicker right there. So I just wanted to share that part.
51:07
Speaker 2: Yeah. Thank you. You're welcome. It's the big, you know,
51:11
we're talking about, in a way, we're talking kind of
51:14
about the basic tenet of that writing group is without judgment,
51:21
finding your voice, no matter what that is. Because it really, right? Well,
51:27
because again. No, no, no.
51:28
Speaker 1: I want, okay. So can you repeat that? Because that's
51:31
kind of the next. question and you can use that
51:34
to answer it so let me ask the question let
51:36
me ask the question and then use that as part
51:38
of your answer is there anything else that feels present
51:42
for you to share before we close.
51:45
Speaker 2: Yeah um yeah you know this this journey we're all
51:52
on but i'm on is about finding true voice not
51:59
should voice you know not supposed to voice, but true voice.
52:07
And part, big part of that in this writing group
52:10
that I do is the impulse to write just that
52:18
and following that. And in a nonjudgmental key thing setting
52:23
with a safe group of people and, and that being
52:28
a reflection more importantly of our relationship with ourselves, feeling
52:33
safe enough to just write and finding your voice. And
52:40
it is so, it's really been helpful for me in
52:43
this process because it deals with that little boy. And
52:48
I didn't speak to this, but when I was in kindergarten,
52:52
I've shared this with you, this story of having my
52:55
hands tied after story time because I had somehow been
52:58
fidgeting or doing something that the teacher didn't like. And so,
53:03
I didn't get a chance to share in the art
53:06
thing that they were doing after the story. The writing
53:10
gives us a chance to meet that voice and meet
53:15
the voice that says, well, I want to write. I
53:18
really want to explore this. And then you get to
53:21
go through the process of being with both voices. And
53:27
it's practice. It's not intellectualizing. It's not conceptualizing. It's like, oh,
53:32
I do want to write. Well, but, and so just,
53:35
and I say, it's just start writing. And people sometimes, well,
53:38
I wrote a sentence or two and it took me
53:40
a while. Yeah. We go from writing, you know, some
53:46
things to really, oh, my imagination pops up and then
53:49
I start writing this and then I, oh, oh, oh.
53:51
Speaker 1: Well, you had that squandered when your little boy had
53:54
his hands tied and you couldn't do the art thing
53:56
after he squandered or she squandered. That opportunity for you
54:01
to step into that art. And that's what writing is
54:06
still an art. So, you know, I have to say this, Steve,
54:11
that's very, this like hit me like a ton of
54:13
bricks when you were talking about that. Surprise, you're a writer, right?
54:20
Speaker 2: Right.
54:20
Speaker 1: Okay. Because your voice was silenced and you're talking about
54:26
the true voice, which is the silenced voice. We've all
54:30
been silenced in one way or another. It doesn't, it
54:33
isn't just the divine feminine. We've got divine masculine who's
54:37
been silenced as well. And this part is the kicker
54:42
is that you use your writing to find your voice.
54:47
Speaker 2: Yes.
54:48
Speaker 1: That you lost when you were a child. Right.
54:52
Speaker 2: So cool. So cool. Very cool. Yes.
54:56
Speaker 1: Very cool.
54:58
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
54:59
Speaker 1: Yeah. So Steve, thank you for being here. And thanks
55:05
for being willing to explore these tender parts that I've
55:08
known about for years of your experience and being honest
55:12
and open and vulnerable. Holy crap.
55:15
Speaker 2: It's okay to do that.
55:16
Speaker 1: It's okay to do that. You used your voice. And
55:20
I think this conversation is a powerful reminder of what
55:24
becomes possible when we're willing to stay with ourselves and
55:28
long enough to tell the truth. And that letting go
55:32
of old patterns doesn't always mean we know what's next,
55:37
but we open the door through surrender. Sometimes it simply
55:42
creates the space to rediscover parts of ourselves that have
55:46
been there all along. And to our audience, thank you
55:50
for being here with us on Awakening Soul Divinity. If
55:54
this conversation resonated with you, take a moment to subscribe.
55:58
share it with someone who may need it, or leave
56:00
a comment below. And if you're an empath or highly
56:04
sensitive person who is having a hard time, feeling overwhelmed,
56:08
moving through grief, or finding yourself repeating those same patterns
56:12
in relationships, I invite you to learn more about coming
56:15
home in the description below. Until next time, welcome home.