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381 How Worrying Less Helps Children More · Beautifully Complex

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Beautifully Complex podcast, where I share insights
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: and strategies on parenting neurodivergent kids straight from the trenches.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: I'm your host, Penny Williams. I'm a parenting coach, author,
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: and mindset mama honored to guide you on the journey
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: of raising your atypical kid. Let's get started. Hi, everyone.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to Beautifully Complex. I am really excited to
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: to have the authors of Base Camp Parenting here with me,
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Chris Parrott and Dr. Susan Bauerfeld. And we're going to
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: discuss parent worry, which has been a real thing for me.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: I have anxieties already, so parent worry is kind of
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: wired into me. But as I got more parenting experience
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  Speaker 1: under my belt, I realized that I needed to have
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: a little better control over it Probably not the right word,
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  Speaker 1: but I didn't want to put it on my kids, right?
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  Speaker 1: And I'm sure we'll talk a little bit about that
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  Speaker 1: as well in this conversation. But Kristen, Susan, will you
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: start by letting everybody know who you are and what
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: you do?
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: Sure. I am Dr. Susan Bauerfeld. I'm a licensed clinical psychologist.
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  Speaker 2: I had a private practice in Wilton and Norwalk for many,
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: many years in Connecticut. I retired roughly two years ago,
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  Speaker 2: but continue to do speaking engagements. And now I'm promoting
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: this book and hoping to help lots of parents worry less. Yeah.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: I'm Chris Parrott. I am a BPS chartered counseling psychologist,
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: which is just the long fancy title for I'm a
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: British psychologist. But then when I moved back here to
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  Speaker 3: the United States, I became a board certified coach. So
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  Speaker 3: I practice here in the United States as a life coach.
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  Speaker 3: mostly with emerging adults and parents. I'm also a mother
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  Speaker 3: myself of two children and three pets. And like Susan,
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  Speaker 3: really happy to be here to start to help parents
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  Speaker 3: to worry less so they can help their kids more.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, and I have three children as well, three grown boys. Awesome.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: Thank you for sharing some of your story. Can we
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: start by talking about this term Base Camp? that you
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: have created. You, I think, are referring to like the
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: home environment that kids grow up in. Can you explain
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: that metaphor a little bit better? And like what happens
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: in child development when a parent does start to worry?
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  Speaker 1: How does that worry start to shape their environment?
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  Speaker 3: Absolutely. There are so many phrases out there, such as like,
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  Speaker 3: snowplow parenting and helicopter parenting and gentle parenting that, in
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  Speaker 3: our opinion, really are ways that are not optimal to
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: raise your children. So in using the phrase base camp parenting,
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  Speaker 3: we really wanted to give parents a framework about what
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: their role was as a parent. So if you think
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  Speaker 3: about kids are out there climbing these various mountains in
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  Speaker 3: their lives, and really the role of the parent is
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  Speaker 3: to be a base camp leader. and to provide a
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  Speaker 3: base camp where children, climbers, can come back and rest, recover,
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  Speaker 3: and very importantly, make sense of what has happened to
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  Speaker 3: them out on the mountain, and obviously get the support
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: and the resources they need that makes their climbing, gives
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: them the ability to continue with the climb. And very importantly,
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: if you hear me saying that, like, it supports their climb,
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  Speaker 3: A base camp leader does not climb for their children, right?
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  Speaker 3: We don't helicopter them to the top or drag them up.
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  Speaker 3: It's really important that the climbers, wherever they are on
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  Speaker 3: the mountain, they are getting the support that they need
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: to take the next step. And that is really the
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: role of a parent.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. And what happens when worry gets in there is
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  Speaker 2: you tend to be focused way in the future, way
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  Speaker 2: in the past. Often in our achievement culture, we're focused
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  Speaker 2: on gotta get them to the summit and you're so
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  Speaker 2: focused on the summit that you lose the opportunity to
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  Speaker 2: be focused on what's happening now and what are the
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  Speaker 2: resources they need right now for the thing that's happening
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  Speaker 2: to them at that place in the mountain. And when
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  Speaker 2: we're worried, we lose that perspective because we're so worried
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  Speaker 2: about making sure that they get to the summit.
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  Speaker 1: And safely.
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  Speaker 3: Yes.
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  Speaker 1: I think we're naturally so protective.
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  Speaker 3: Yes.
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  Speaker 1: But we easily slip into that overprotection, right? Like I
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: would want to go with my kid. I want to
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  Speaker 1: make sure every step of the way they don't get hurt, right? Right.
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  Speaker 1: And how do we sort of tease apart? What is
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: worry and what is concern and what is maybe protection
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  Speaker 1: that's necessary versus protection that really isn't helpful?
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  Speaker 2: Yes. So, The definition of worry, if you look in
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  Speaker 2: the dictionary, is to torment oneself with or suffer from
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  Speaker 2: disturbing thoughts.
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  Speaker 1: Wow.
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  Speaker 2: So when you think about that definition, how is that
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  Speaker 2: helpful to you or to your kids? Whereas concern is
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  Speaker 2: this blend of interest, engagement, and some discomfort. So you're
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  Speaker 2: interested in what's going on. You're engaged in trying to
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  Speaker 2: manage it. And usually a concern, there is some discomfort
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  Speaker 2: that goes with it. So you might have some worried
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  Speaker 2: thoughts about it. But if you shift into worrying about
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  Speaker 2: it and torment yourself, that's when we've crossed a line
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  Speaker 2: that's not so helpful.
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  Speaker 3: And I think a really important aspect of that difference
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  Speaker 3: is When I'm concerned, when I'm in this blended state
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  Speaker 3: of discomfort and interest, the discomfort is there to focus
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  Speaker 3: your attention, but it's not so high that you turn inward.
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  Speaker 3: And so when I have concern, I'm still able to
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  Speaker 3: have an outward focus on what does my child need
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  Speaker 3: in this moment to be present with the challenge that
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: they're facing in this moment versus when we start to
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  Speaker 3: engage in tormenting ourself with disturbing thoughts. now our focus
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  Speaker 3: is inward and now we're focused on getting rid of
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  Speaker 3: the discomfort that, that we feel rather than being outwardly
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  Speaker 3: focused on what is happening for our kids. So that,
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: I think that's a really important, we call it a
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: shift that takes place, right? And that we, we shift
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  Speaker 3: from an outward focus to an inward focus. So we'll
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  Speaker 3: often use the term we're trying to get our shift together.
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  Speaker 1: Right. For sure. Every day. Lived that. Yes, absolutely. And
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  Speaker 1: so how do we then as a parent be able
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  Speaker 1: to disconnect from the worry, right, that tormenting ourselves space
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  Speaker 1: and be able to make that shift so that we
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  Speaker 1: are not putting our own worry on our kids, but
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  Speaker 1: we're also not being driven by our own discomfort, as
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: you were talking about.
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  Speaker 2: Right. Well, the first thing is to notice it, okay,
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  Speaker 2: is to, we call it spotting it, spot the worry.
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  Speaker 2: And there are many techniques for doing this. A lot
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  Speaker 2: of them come from cognitive behavioral therapy. They call it
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  Speaker 2: stinking thinking or catastrophizing or when you're magnifying things. In
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: the book, we have a whole list of these ways
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  Speaker 2: to spot it. So the first thing to do is
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: to spot it. But then your question goes to what
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: do we do next? And Chris, do you want to
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: describe what we do next? Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: So next to us is an acronym for what happens
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  Speaker 3: when we notice that, when we've spotted that we're in
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  Speaker 3: this worried thinking. And so the N stands for to notice,
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  Speaker 3: to name, and to normalize what is happening. So... all
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: of a sudden I noticed that like, I'm just, my
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: shoulders are tight. I'm starting to feel angsty inside, right?
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  Speaker 3: And so to notice that and then name it, like, wow,
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  Speaker 3: I'm really worried that my kid isn't moving along fast
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: enough in school or maybe struggling in school or maybe
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: struggling with their friends or whatever that may be. And
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  Speaker 3: then to name the emotions that we're feeling at that time.
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  Speaker 3: So I'm feeling, I'm feeling really scared that my kid
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  Speaker 3: isn't going to be able to keep up or I'm really,
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  Speaker 3: I'm frustrated also. I've spent a lot of time going
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: over X, Y, and Z. And, and because once you
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: name an emotion, we talk a lot about what's happening
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  Speaker 3: in the brain. And when you name an emotion, that's
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  Speaker 3: a very logical process. So that means that we're engaging
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  Speaker 3: the upper regions of our brain. versus anxiety and worry
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  Speaker 3: is set off in the lower portions of our brain.
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  Speaker 3: So as soon as we start to name the emotion
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  Speaker 3: and what is happening, we're already moving energy from the
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  Speaker 3: lower portion up into the upper areas of the brain,
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  Speaker 3: which is where we want to be for problem solving
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  Speaker 3: and helping our children.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, neuroscientists call this, when you name it, you tame it. Yes.
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  Speaker 3: So we're moving energy up to that upper part of
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  Speaker 3: the brain when we name it. And then the last
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  Speaker 3: to add, normalize, is asking ourselves the question, is it
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  Speaker 3: normal that I feel a bit fearful? Is it normal
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  Speaker 3: that I feel a bit frustrated in this situation?
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  Speaker 2: And I would say 99.9%.
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  Speaker 3: Of the time, the answer to that question is, yeah,
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  Speaker 3: that is. And again, when we normalize something, again, we're
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  Speaker 3: moving the energy up into those upper levels of the
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  Speaker 3: brain because we're actually evaluating what is happening. And that
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  Speaker 3: is an upper level process. So that is the first step,
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  Speaker 3: is to notice, name, and normalize what is happening for us.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and then our next step is to evaluate, to
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: continue this process of using the upper part of the brain,
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: but specifically to evaluate, will alarms and urgency that comes
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  Speaker 2: from anxiety, will that help me address this concern? Will
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: calling all the fire trucks in the accompanying area here,
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: will that help me, you know, solve this issue for
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  Speaker 2: my child? And again, usually the answer to that is no.
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  Speaker 2: You know, will accelerating the intensity of what I'm feeling
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  Speaker 2: help me now? So there are many ways to ask
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  Speaker 2: this question. But the point is to evaluate, is that
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  Speaker 2: state of alarm that gets kicked off by worrying, is
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  Speaker 2: that going to help me here? And usually, unless it's
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: an immediate life-threatening emergency, like a bus is going to
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  Speaker 2: hit you in two seconds, that's the kind of emergency
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  Speaker 2: we're talking about, that state of alarm is not helpful
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  Speaker 2: because it interferes with your access to those upper levels
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  Speaker 2: of the brain that you need in order to problem
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  Speaker 2: solve and cope.
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  Speaker 1: And how do we control that alarm?
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: Well, so that would be the next step, the X,
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  Speaker 3: which stands for to exhale, which one way is to
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  Speaker 3: just reset your system is to take three very deep, long,
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: slow breaths. It stands for resetting your system, right? And
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: taking three long, deep breaths slowly and smoothly, that's exactly
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  Speaker 3: opposite of the type of breathing that you would do
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  Speaker 3: if you were in a true life-threatening emergency. If we
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: were running from a tiger, our breathing is going to
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  Speaker 3: be really shallow and really rapid. So if we slow
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: down and take three deep breaths, as an example, our
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: body is now telling our brain, I'm not running from
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: a tiger. This is not a state of emergency. I'm
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: I don't need my alarm off. So that's one way.
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: There are other ways that you can reset your system
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: as well. For many people, they might want to go
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: for a long walk, grab a cup of tea, do
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: some yoga. Other people might like something more active to
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: help them reset their system, like going for a run.
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: But anything that gets your brain and your body in
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: sync that this is not an emergency. So it's a
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: resetting of the system.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: Gotcha. Yeah. And what's really important to recognize here is
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: that we have this as step three. When you read
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  Speaker 2: a lot of things about anxiety, the first thing is
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: you have to calm down, right? Take a deep breath,
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: calm down. But if you don't do that acknowledgement of notice, naming,
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: and normalizing, so recognizing there is something going on here
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: that does deserve my attention and it is uncomfortable and
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: it is important. If you don't do that, you're not
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: going to get the mileage out of the breathing because
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: the parts of you that are concerned about that are like,
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: you don't get it. You don't get it. This is
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: really something to pay attention to. So it's really important
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: to do those first two steps. And so that acknowledgement
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: sometimes takes a long time to convince the parts of,
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: or if I'm working with another person, to convince them, yeah,
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: I get it. This is a really valid concern. And yes,
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: you want to pay attention to it. And yes, it's
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: super important. Yet, let's get curious. Does that alarm help? No.
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  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: So now it's not a matter of necessarily controlling it
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  Speaker 2: because we can't control these automatic processes. It's a matter
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: of responding to them in a way that helps the
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  Speaker 2: body calm down. Yeah.
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: It is natural to worry, right? That's apparent. So having
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: a worried thought isn't the problem. It's when we go
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: inward and we engage in this process because worry always
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: dials up the intensity and it dials up the urgency
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: of it. And so when that happens, that's when it's
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: hard for us to keep our shift together. and really
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: stay outwardly focused. So this step of exhaling and resetting
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  Speaker 3: really enables us to not reach a nirvana, that's not
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: gonna happen, right? So we're not looking for you to be,
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: anybody to be completely calm, but just be able to
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  Speaker 3: have a little bit more of that blood flow up
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: into the upper areas of the brain where we can
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: start to think about problem solving.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But we're not done yet. Right.
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  Speaker 1: Okay.
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  Speaker 2: And a lot of people, when they're managing anxiety, think
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: this calming down is the end. But no, it's not.
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  Speaker 2: Because you still have to cope. So the next step
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  Speaker 2: is to take a step. And it's really important that
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: it's a step. We're usually not going to solve the
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: whole thing in the next few minutes. But to take
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: a step toward coping. And that You know, you got
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: to experiment here. For some people, for some parents, I
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: know for me, a lot of time, my first step
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  Speaker 2: was get some space from this. You know, just disengage from,
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: you know, whatever I was throwing at my kids. It
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: was so urgent to disengage from that and to get
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: a little space. Okay, it might be doing a repair
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  Speaker 2: if you've been doing a lot of shame, blame, criticism
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  Speaker 2: in your effort to help. To go back and repair that,
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  Speaker 2: you know, it doesn't really matter what it is because
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  Speaker 2: what we're doing here is building a ramp toward coping
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  Speaker 2: with whatever this concern is. Usually we're not going to
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: make the concern go away. The concern is there. The
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: issue is there. So what we're doing here in step
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: four is we're really shifting away from worrying about the
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: concern to coping with the concern, managing the concern.
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  Speaker 1: We're booming the torment. Yes. That word is so accurate.
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  Speaker 1: And I love that you use it to really show
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  Speaker 1: us what's happening there is that that's the step that
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: we can control at least a little bit.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: Yes. Right?
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  Speaker 1: We can... try to walk through this process to settle
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  Speaker 1: our nervous system, to really identify what level of emergency
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: is this, if it is an emergency at all, right?
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: And so that word torment is sticking with me to
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: be able to ask myself that at the beginning. Is this, right,
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: an emergency?
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that might be your question. Yeah.
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: Your question might be, will tormenting myself about this help? Yeah.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: The answer is no. Yeah, yeah. The answer is clearly no.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: And that immediately will start to calm your system.
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: I have something really exciting to share with you. You've
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: heard me say it a hundred times on the show.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: Behavior is a signal. For years, I wished every teacher
• 18:05
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• 18:09
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  Speaker 1: the link along to a teacher you know too. Can
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: we shift and talk a little bit about what are
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: the consequences if we're not able to go through this process?
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: And some days I'm sure we're not. Nobody's perfect. Some
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: days you're just going to... wallow in that torment, right?
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: It's just going to take you over and it's going
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: to happen. So thinking about how we put our own
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: worry on our kids, is that a specific concern here?
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: If we don't shift out of worry, what does that do?
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: How does that impact them? Can you talk a little
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: bit about that?
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: Very much so. Our kids are constantly, their nervous systems,
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: they learning to regulate their nervous systems. And so one
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: of the things that they are wired to do is
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: look to their caregivers to see what their nervous systems
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: are like. Are we okay right now? Or should I
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: be in a state of alert, right? Should I be
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: watching out for something that's happening? And so when a
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: parent's nervous system is continually in this angsty state, kids'
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: nervous systems read that and their nervous system turns on.
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: And so therefore then they are in a constant state
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: of angst and anxiety. And in order for our kids
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: to learn and grow optimally, I don't even like to
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: use that word, but learning and growth takes place when
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: we are not in a state of alarm. So We,
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: as parents, are always hoping that we are providing this
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: great environment for our kids to be able to grow
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: and learn. But when their nervous system is on alert,
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: we're limiting that. And we're also modeling for them that
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: when there's a problem, what do you do? You go
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: into a state of alarm and a state of worry.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: And you worry.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: Yes, exactly.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: Worrying is learned behavior. Hmm. And, you know, children learn
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: what they live. And all the research points to that
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: children of parents who have an anxiety disorder, and it's
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: important to think about disordered anxiety, because anxiety itself is
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: a normal, healthy, necessary process. When anxiety gets disordered, it's
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: not working the way it should. The way anxiety should
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: work is that it provides an alert. Pay attention to this.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: But what worry does is it turns that alert into
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: an alarm and makes a paper cut a crisis. That's
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: what worrying does. So it's really important here to recognize
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: that kids who have anxious parents, disordered anxiety parents, are
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: six times more likely to develop an anxiety disorder. And
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: one of the key features, if you look in the
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: DSM for diagnosing anxiety disorders, one of the key features
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: is excessive worry. Excessive worrying disorders anxiety. Yeah.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: I'm just taking a breath because that's been my home.
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: I experienced some as well, and my nervous system needed
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: that breath. Can we layer on now neurodivergence?
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: Yes, but before we do that, I would like to
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: model what we do here to help with this. And
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: some of that is, it's great you took a breath.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: Have some compassion for yourself. I am sure someone taught
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: you how to worry so much. This is not something that,
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: you know, you have done on your own. The culture,
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: probably the environment in which you grew up, teachers, mentors, whoever,
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: somebody along the way helped you learn how to worry
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: so well. Okay, skilled worriers don't create themselves usually. They're
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: usually outside forces that contribute to that. So it's important
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: to recognize that and give yourself some grace.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: Particularly in the environment that I appreciate you taking that time, Susan,
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: but I also want to say particularly in this culture,
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: and this is part of the reason we wrote this
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: book is because the culture right now almost sends the
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: message that good parents worry. That's what you do, right?
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: And actually that's, not the messaging that we want that's
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: out there. You know, parents are concerned and having concerns
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: about your children, that's where it comes from. But the
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: worrying process is not beneficial to your children. But to
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: have some compassion for yourself that there's a lot of
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: messages that are coming in all the time of, oh,
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: you need to do more. You need to worry more.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: You need to stay on things.
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: And so just to take a minute to breathe and
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: be like, that's the culture. But I really want to
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: provide a base camp for my kid where I'm not
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: in that constant state of angst.
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: And just conversations about the difference between those two words
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: instead of using them interchangeably.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: We can start to change the conversation around that.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: And really identify that worry is that added layer of torment, right?
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: I think it's just so powerful because I hadn't thought
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: about it before this conversation in that way. I would
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: have used the words interchangeably, right?
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: So just listen to the difference. And I'll use, to
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: go toward the neurodivergent, I'll use an example here. I'm
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: worried about my child's upcoming IEP. I'm worried that I
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: haven't done enough. I'm worried the advocate isn't, you know,
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: on top of things. I'm worried about that. So just
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: register what you're thinking when you hear that. Versus, you know,
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: I'm concerned about the IEP coming up. I'm concerned about
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: what the advocate has done. So which one feels more manageable?
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: The concern or the worry? And which one is more
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: focused on the actual issue?
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: The worry is more focused on what's happening inside of you.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: The concern is more focused on, hey, we got to
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: do something about this situation.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: And as you just described it, one felt like I
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: had a little more control.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: And the other felt completely out of my control.
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: Right? So we're really, we're working on the story that
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: we're telling ourselves about these situations. That's right. So that
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: that story is actually more helpful. And when we do
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: have a little bit of that sense of control... It
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: does help to quell some of that anxiety. That's right.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: It helps us to actually worry less, right? That's right.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: It's kind of the cycle.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And that's why we say worry less. We're not
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: recommending that people don't worry at all. That's impossible. But
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: you can worry less.
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: And there is a phrase in our book, a term
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: just to help people remember, which is wonder over worry.
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: So instead of whenever we find ourselves, you know, I'm
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: so worried about this or I'm worried about the IEP,
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: I wonder about the IEP or I wonder if my
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: kid is struggling versus I'm worried that my kid is struggling, right?
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: So there's always that wonder over worry opens up possibilities.
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: Whereas when we're just worried, we're all solely focused on
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: the negative, but wondering often helps us to open up
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: all the possibilities.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: And as a parent of a neurodivergent kid, I think
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: we're set up more to future cast. I remember when
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: my kid was young, he's now a young adult, but
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: when he was young, like in kindergarten, I was worried
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: about him graduating from high school, and I was spending
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: so much energy getting so upset about something that I
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: really couldn't control that day. But if I made that
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: day the best that day could be, it was actually
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: going to positively impact later. And that was kind of
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: the way I had to shift, right?
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that was so beautifully said. That is exactly. Worry
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: always takes you somewhere way in the future, which dials
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: up the urgency, or it takes you perhaps to the past,
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: to something that you've experienced that you really don't want
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: your child to experience. And so when we're in the
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: past or when we're in the future, we're not in
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: the present.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: And so that was really beautifully said of how if
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: I just focus on what my child needs in this day,
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: in this moment, then that really is the most helpful.
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And so with parents of neurodivergent kids, a lot
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: of time in that notice, name, and normalize phase is
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: super helpful. Super helpful. Because if you're trying to help
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: someone who's doing all that work and is so concerned
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: and is so much energy focused on that, until the
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: parts of them that are doing that get that you
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: get it, they're not going to dial it down. So
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: it's really important to befriend in some ways, befriend the
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: worry and say, I get why this is here. I
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: get why you're worrying. It's really reasonable that you have
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: all these worried thoughts.
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: Super reasonable. And so with parents of neurodivergent kids, they
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: don't get enough of that. They get a lot of pressure.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: You've got to do more. Or they get a lot
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: of blame. You did something wrong to make their kid
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: behave like this. You're managing all of that. which contributes
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: to the urgency and the worry. So, you know, both
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: when we're working with someone who's a parent of a
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: neurodivergent child, or if you are a parent, a lot
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: of compassion for the journey and how hard it is
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: goes a really long way.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: Being kind to yourself. Absolutely. That's what I end about
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: every single talk when I'm asked what one thing I
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: want to impart on parents. It's always that, like, we
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: really need to be more kind to ourselves. It's a
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: hard job, and we're doing the best that we can.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: Yes. And as you know, it requires a lot of resources.
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: And those resources are not just economic and academic. Base
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: camp resources such as compassion, courage, creativity, curiosity, those resources
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: can help so much when you're struggling with how do
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: I manage this situation. But if you're worrying, you don't
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: have access to any of that.
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: Yep. Yeah.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: What is one small thing, if a parent could just
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: focus on one thing from this conversation and going forward today,
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: what would that one thing be? Where would you advise
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: that they start?
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: So we each came up with one. Yeah. And mine
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: is that there's nothing wrong with you if you worry.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: But knowing how to worry less will help your kids more. Yeah.
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: And for me, it's really being able, particularly for parents
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: of neurodivergent kids, is to being able to stay focused
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: on the present. What is happening right now in this moment?
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: Can I keep my shift outwardly focused on what my
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: child needs to take the next step versus what my
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: worry is telling me that I need to do to
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: get rid? So the one thing is to stay present
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: in this moment. What can I do now?
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: And that will change so much, just that refocus, right?
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: That's right. Tell everybody where they can find the book,
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: where they can find... you online. I will also link
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: it all up in the show notes, but will you
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: share that as well here?
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: Sure. The book website is BasecampParents.com. And then, Chris, you
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: can share the social media.
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: The Instagram is also BasecampParents.com. I think Facebook is BasecampParenting.com,
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: and LinkedIn is BasecampParents as well.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: Awesome.
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: Like I said, I'll link it up, make it easy
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: for everyone. I really hope that you pick up the book,
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: that you start to do some of the self-work that
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: then in turn is really going to benefit your kids
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: as well. Thank you so much for the work that
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: you're doing.
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: You can buy the book on Amazon right now, or
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: you can go to Bloomsbury and also purchase there. It
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: is out ready for releases in two weeks.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: Perfect.
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: Or I actually don't know when this is going to
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: be aired.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: So by the time this airs, it will be out.
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: Thank you all so much.
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: And thank you, Penny, for bringing useful information to parents.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: Oh, thank you.
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: Yes. Thank you so much.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: I love being a helper. I'm sure you do too.
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: It's a good place in the world. I will see
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: everybody next time. Take good care. Visit beautifully-complex.com for more resources, coaching,
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: and parent training. And help another kid by sharing this
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: with someone who could benefit from listening.