Latest / Closing Sales in Nigeria - Sales For The Nigerian Business Person: The Sales and Marketing Blueprint / The Myth of the Brand-First Business

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The Myth of the Brand-First Business · Closing Sales in Nigeria - Sales For The Nigerian Business Person: The Sales and Marketing Blueprint

• 0:01
  Hello and welcome to the show. Today.
• 0:03
  I'm not in the audio booth, so I expect to hear some
• 0:05
  interruptions in the background. So with the apologies out of the
• 0:09
  way, let's head straight into the topic for today.
• 0:14
  OK, Today I'd like us to look at branding versus sales, which
• 0:19
  comes first. The reason why I want us to look
• 0:22
  at this today is because there's a problem in business circle
• 0:25
  business circles these days, and that's because most people my
• 0:28
  age are obsessed with brand when they want to start their
• 0:31
  business journey. Everybody assumes I'm going to
• 0:33
  be in business. I'm going to be a doctor, I'm
• 0:35
  going to be a photographer, I'm going to be an architect, I'm
• 0:37
  going to be a consultant. So let me start with building my
• 0:40
  brand. That's one of the first things
• 0:43
  that I run into when I'm talking people.
• 0:44
  Everybody wants to start from the brand journey, but which
• 0:48
  comes first? Does branding truly come first?
• 0:52
  The problem with this whole theory of all, to get into
• 0:55
  business, let me start building my brand, is it doesn't reflect
• 0:58
  the trajectory of most businesses.
• 1:01
  It doesn't show how most businesses actually grow.
• 1:04
  And so because of this, a lot of people my age and younger are
• 1:08
  ending up with a very flawed picture of business.
• 1:12
  You're ending up with a very erroneous idea about how
• 1:15
  business, how businesses grow, how businesses come about.
• 1:19
  Now, the reason why we end up with this flawed picture or this
• 1:24
  backwards picture is because of the stories and the brands that
• 1:27
  are celebrated in books and celebrated in media when some of
• 1:30
  us were kids. So I want to take some of those
• 1:34
  stories and scrutinize them a little bit much more clearly.
• 1:38
  And then you're going to be able to see that even though your
• 1:40
  favorite businesses have evolved into mega brands, they didn't
• 1:44
  always start out as a mega brand.
• 1:47
  So let me repeat that in case you didn't get it.
• 1:49
  I want to take two very famous stories from when I was a little
• 1:53
  youth just to prove a point. That's for those of us who are
• 1:56
  of the same age that even though your favorite brands are
• 2:01
  currently mega brands, they didn't always start out as one.
• 2:07
  The case study that I'm going to be looking at today, Remember,
• 2:10
  I'm talking about companies from my own generation.
• 2:13
  So you're not going to hear anything about Amazon or
• 2:15
  Facebook on this. So 2 of the mega stories from my
• 2:20
  own generation would be Coca-Cola and Nike.
• 2:24
  Coca-Cola, of course, is the soft drink.
• 2:28
  Back when we were kids, there was the advertising campaign.
• 2:31
  Coca-Cola is it in the 80s, Coca-Cola Teach the world to
• 2:35
  sing the Coca-Cola X mask Christmas campaigns, you know,
• 2:40
  back when we were kids, you know, stuff like that.
• 2:43
  So Coca-Cola, the massive brand, because when those, when we were
• 2:47
  kids, you know, late 70s, early 80s and beyond, this is the kind
• 2:51
  of stuff that we saw. And so because of that, you
• 2:54
  know, we're now 40s, fifties, we're trying to start our
• 2:56
  businesses and we assume, oh, you know what, I'm going to
• 2:58
  build a mega brand because the businesses that were successful
• 3:03
  back when I was a kid, they were mega brands.
• 3:05
  So Coca-Cola and then Nike. So of course, Nike every OK, no,
• 3:10
  not everyone now, people of a certain age, because I I don't
• 3:14
  live Nike is really raining these days by anyway, let me not
• 3:18
  go on go off into a strange rant.
• 3:20
  So but Nike, you know, 70s eighty kids were familiar with
• 3:24
  it. You know, the Just Do It
• 3:26
  campaign, the Michael Jordan endorsements, you know, the Air
• 3:29
  Force Ones, Tiger Woods endorsements, you know, and all
• 3:32
  the branding activity that went on then.
• 3:35
  So for those of us who are born in late 70s, early 80s and
• 3:38
  beyond, we are familiar with businesses, successful
• 3:42
  businesses doing massive marketing campaigns and doing
• 3:46
  massive branding campaigns. And then we'll become adults and
• 3:49
  want to start businesses. And then we assume that that is
• 3:51
  how it has always been. I want to open my medicine
• 3:55
  practice. Let me start with massive
• 3:57
  marketing campaign. Let me start with massive
• 4:00
  branding campaign. I want to open my law practice.
• 4:03
  Let me begin with massive marketing campaign.
• 4:05
  Let me begin with massive branding campaign.
• 4:08
  I'm about to become a wedding photographer.
• 4:10
  Let me begin with massive advertising campaign.
• 4:13
  Let me begin with massive branding campaign.
• 4:16
  But is this truly the case? And is this how these mega
• 4:21
  brands really began? I went online, I did bit of
• 4:25
  snooping around and I confirmed my hypothesis.
• 4:29
  Coca-Cola in the early days. Oh, by the way, I haven't
• 4:33
  confirmed these from official sources.
• 4:35
  So after you're done listening to the podcast, please go and
• 4:39
  check, go online, you know, check Coca Cola's website or
• 4:42
  whatever, or maybe check Wikipedia and then confirm some
• 4:45
  of the stuff. Google it.
• 4:46
  So in the early days, the pharmacist who invented
• 4:49
  Coca-Cola, John Pemberton, if I got the name correctly, he
• 4:52
  invented it as a headache remedy.
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  And then he started selling this thing to local pharmacies and
• 4:58
  was mixed with carbonated water. Carbonated water.
• 5:01
  That's the, you know, that thing.
• 5:04
  You drink Fanta, you drink Coke, you drink Sprite and then you
• 5:07
  belch. That's just that's just carbon
• 5:10
  in the in the drink. So it mix everything together.
• 5:15
  Then according to the gist I found, Pemberton's friend Frank
• 5:19
  Robinson, who was also his bookkeeper, was the one who
• 5:21
  designed the logo. And anyway, let me just skip all
• 5:27
  of that since I haven't confirmed some of these things.
• 5:30
  But basically the early marketing or getting Coca-Cola
• 5:35
  off the ground involved distributing samples to
• 5:41
  pharmacies. I repeat, taking a bottle,
• 5:46
  taking a sample, going from one pharmacy to another.
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  If you're in Lagos or in Abuja, picture this, you go to popular
• 5:54
  street in Lagos, there are like 5 or 6 pharmacies there.
• 5:57
  That is what the people who are behind Coca-Cola, that is how
• 6:01
  they started. You enter this pharmacy, you try
• 6:04
  your luck, you come out, you enter the other pharmacy, you
• 6:08
  try your luck, you come out, you enter the other pharmacy and you
• 6:12
  try your luck. And that was how Coca-Cola
• 6:16
  began, from distributing samples to pharmacies, promoting the
• 6:22
  drink to pharmacies. Now let's look at Nike in the
• 6:27
  early days. Well, I can't confirm this
• 6:30
  information, so, you know, go on interwebs for yourself and go on
• 6:34
  check. So the names that I was able to
• 6:38
  find, Bill Bowman and a track coach, Phil Knight, then a third
• 6:45
  guy. What's the third guy's name
• 6:49
  anyway? Basically, they started off
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  importing running shoes from Japan and how they got the show
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  on the road was they started slinging shoes from Phil
• 6:59
  Knight's car trunk. They will go to runners and
• 7:04
  track meet, they're going to running events and track meets
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  and things like that. And then they will open the
• 7:08
  boots of Phil Knight's car and then they will start slinging
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  shoes 1 by 1 by 1. So those of you who are in
• 7:15
  Lagos, in Abuja, I think we only have one stadium that I know of.
• 7:18
  But in Lagos, there's that stadium that is Adojo Alegba.
• 7:21
  And then there's another stadium at where again, I think in Lagos
• 7:25
  are like 3 or 4 stadiums, I can't remember.
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  It's been a while since I left Lagos.
• 7:29
  So think about it. These people import shoes from
• 7:33
  Japan and then what do they do? They would drive to national
• 7:35
  stadium, then they open the boot and then they start flogging the
• 7:39
  shoes. They start selling the shoes 1
• 7:41
  by 1 by 1. Then when they finish at
• 7:43
  National Stadium and then they hear that OK, at the stadium in
• 7:46
  Nigeria, like maybe African National Scorp is playing or
• 7:50
  something like that. They will now drive there,
• 7:52
  sharply open the back of the car and then start selling a shoe
• 7:56
  again, 1 by 1 by 1. And the whole thing was focused
• 8:01
  around building relationships with runners, trying to
• 8:03
  understand their needs and sales motions of selling 1 by 1 by 1.
• 8:12
  Now it is easier to tell the sexy stories about building the
• 8:17
  Coca-Cola brand and building the Nike brand.
• 8:21
  But The thing is these massive companies that we love and that
• 8:24
  we respect, again, people my age, I'm not talking about you,
• 8:28
  you young bloods, because you young bloods.
• 8:29
  Yeah, I know you know Coke, but I'm not sure if you guys know
• 8:31
  Nike. So you can see that the early
• 8:34
  success was around strong sales and strong business development.
• 8:42
  That is what they used to differentiate themselves.
• 8:45
  That's what they used to get themselves on the road.
• 8:48
  So both people were trying to build relationships.
• 8:53
  They understood what's up. When you're going from one
• 8:56
  pharmacy, you try your luck, another pharmacy you try your
• 8:58
  luck, another pharmacy you try your luck, you're building
• 9:01
  relationships. You have to because somebody
• 9:04
  might say no today. It doesn't mean that the person
• 9:06
  will say no forever more. So the fact that you try
• 9:09
  Pharmacy A on Monday doesn't mean that you can't come back
• 9:12
  next month and try your luck again.
• 9:14
  So they had to build relationships and they had to
• 9:18
  connect with on the Coca-Cola and how to connect with
• 9:21
  distributors and then on the Nike end, how to connect with
• 9:24
  runners, you know, understand and understand their needs.
• 9:29
  Then of course, you know, marketing eventually will become
• 9:36
  important. The slogans would become
• 9:38
  important, the endorsements would become important, you
• 9:41
  know, so the Coca-Cola and the Santa Claus thing and, you know,
• 9:46
  their fancy advertisements. And then Nike with what's his
• 9:51
  name, that basketballer, the one that is bald is bald
• 9:54
  basketballer. This old guy Michael, Michael
• 9:57
  Jordan, you know, the Michael Jordan endorsement and all that.
• 10:00
  So all those things would eventually become important.
• 10:03
  But in the beginning, Coca Cola's growth was a distribution
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  play, pure distribution play. Funny thing is right now
• 10:10
  actually still is a distribution play.
• 10:12
  So they have NBC based in Lagos, making that their stuff in
• 10:16
  Alausa. And then you have a massive
• 10:20
  wholesalers driving their massive truck buy all the
• 10:23
  bottles of Coke and then go out and then try and sell it to
• 10:26
  distributors. Distributors try and sell to
• 10:30
  middle men, middle men sell to retailers, retailers sell it to
• 10:33
  us. So it still is a distribution
• 10:34
  plate, but it started off as a distribution plate going from
• 10:37
  one pharmacy to another pharmacy.
• 10:40
  So the channel choice was really, really pivotal what to
• 10:44
  sell this thing, how we're going to do, we're going to go this
• 10:47
  thing through pharmacies. And then it was a very
• 10:48
  grassroots approach because it is walking leg by leg.
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  Enter this pharmacy, come out, enter the next pharmacy, come
• 10:55
  out, enter the other pharmacy, come out.
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  This was prospecting, physical prospecting, going to somebody,
• 11:03
  visiting a pharmacy, visiting an office.
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  This is how we started before the mega marketing campaigns and
• 11:10
  the mega branding campaigns, simply with Nike.
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  In fact, Nike, you can't even say that was prospecting.
• 11:14
  That is just pure Hosking because you know, we see people
• 11:17
  like that in the city center. You know, they do it in Lagos
• 11:19
  and they do it in Abuja. I'm not sure about other parts
• 11:21
  of the country. We see it all the time.
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  Somebody would just drive somewhere, just park his car,
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  open up and you know, before you know it, bring out shoe, bring
• 11:28
  out this, bring out that and then the guy is just selling his
• 11:30
  stuff from the car. If local government why these
• 11:35
  people called this would like to harass people for for all these
• 11:40
  levies. What are they called again?
• 11:43
  And you, you know what I mean. Sure, you just open your boot,
• 11:46
  start selling your things. If you see local government
• 11:47
  people just throw everything inside your boot, close your
• 11:49
  car, zoom off. So that's what Nike them that's
• 11:52
  what they were doing. It's pure hustling, meeting
• 11:54
  people directly hustling market one-on-one before they had their
• 11:59
  huge corporate offices with air conditioner and we billion
• 12:02
  dollar advertising and with branding budgets.
• 12:05
  So I guess I've overflowed it. So let me just bring this
• 12:08
  episode to a close. All you people who are trying to
• 12:12
  start something, you know, you know, brand, brand, brand,
• 12:14
  brand, you know, what's going to be my logo, What's going to be
• 12:16
  my caller? What's going to be my this,
• 12:17
  what's going to be my that all this branding decision.
• 12:20
  See, I'm not saying branding is not important too because you
• 12:25
  guys should hear what I'm saying in context because I've pointed
• 12:28
  out time and time again, like mom, she was a marketing
• 12:30
  communications professional, her MBA was in public relations, and
• 12:35
  she ended up as APR and brand specialist.
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  So branding is something I grew up around.
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  But The thing is, people are paying attention to branding
• 12:43
  without paying attention to the substantive issues.
• 12:46
  And that's the reason why a lot of us are suffering.
• 12:48
  So branding is important, but The thing is, the people you
• 12:51
  respect, your favorite businesses, do not begin as a
• 12:54
  brand. Even if you check Dangote.
• 12:56
  I'm guessing I'll go and do the research itself so I can make a
• 13:00
  podcast episode about that. I'm willing to bed my
• 13:05
  grandmother's teeth. That for Dangote was also
• 13:08
  similar as well that before the Brangote brand became a thing,
• 13:13
  he probably was hustling one or two things, prospecting, You
• 13:16
  know, let me meet this person, Let me see if I can hook up
• 13:19
  this, let me hook up that. Let me see what I can arrange.
• 13:21
  You know, one-on-one grass roots.
• 13:24
  Go and see somebody. Go shake your hand, go have a
• 13:26
  conversation. I'll be surprised if that's how
• 13:28
  the whole thing started. I don't think this Dangote brand
• 13:30
  just drop from the sky like that.
• 13:32
  So your favorite business is not begin as brands.
• 13:36
  These people started going to the street.
• 13:37
  They were walking on the streets, they were going to the
• 13:40
  market. They were talking to people one
• 13:42
  after another. They were trying to validate the
• 13:44
  business idea. This is my drink that is
• 13:46
  supposed to cure cold, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 13:49
  Is it any good? Let's go to the pharmacy.
• 13:51
  OK, people are drinking this thing, but it's not really to
• 13:53
  cure cold. They're drinking it because it
• 13:55
  gives them a good time or it gives them energy or whatever
• 13:57
  the market research was at the time for Coca-Cola.
• 14:00
  But first of all, they're trying to validate the business idea
• 14:03
  and walk on the sales channels. Do people like this thing?
• 14:07
  Is somebody willing to pay for it?
• 14:09
  OK, people are. So what's the best way that
• 14:10
  we're going to sell this thing? Then after they got money and
• 14:14
  the business going, they not have money for massive marketing
• 14:17
  and then for branding. So if you're starting out,
• 14:21
  please do not join every all these people who are fascinated
• 14:24
  with a brand. But again, I say branding is
• 14:27
  important, but I'm just saying let's not put the cap before the
• 14:31
  horse. You don't start with the brand.
• 14:33
  The brand is something that you end with and the brand is
• 14:35
  something that evolves organically over time.
• 14:37
  So if you're starting out, instead of calling up your best
• 14:41
  friend and saying who do you know that is good at branding?
• 14:44
  Let the person give me logo, let the person give me colour, let
• 14:46
  the person give me website, let the person give me letterhead,
• 14:50
  you know, and all of this, first of all, start at level of market
• 14:53
  validation. Is this a product or a service
• 14:57
  that people even want? Can I sell a bunch of these
• 15:00
  things to be sure that it is even going to work in the first
• 15:02
  place? Is that product market fit?
• 15:04
  Do people like this thing? Are people demanding this thing?
• 15:07
  Try and answer that question 1st.
• 15:08
  And I've said it time and time again on the podcast that the
• 15:12
  way you solve the market validation challenge or the
• 15:14
  product market fit challenge is actually go out into the market
• 15:16
  and try and do some sales motion, try and sell some stuff.
• 15:20
  If you talk to 10 people and it looks like eight people snap it
• 15:23
  up, they're like, oh, OK, OK, we're making progress.
• 15:27
  There's room here. Well, if you talk to 10 people,
• 15:32
  eight people snap it up, but the, the amount of the amount of
• 15:38
  toasting, the amount of selling was too much, then maybe you
• 15:41
  might think, well, there's demand or more distress involved
• 15:45
  in this thing. Maybe it's not the stress that I
• 15:46
  want to, this is not the kind of stress I want to insert into my
• 15:52
  life at this stage, but set out and try and answer these
• 15:56
  questions. So first of all, we're starting
• 15:58
  off with market validation, product, market feed.
• 16:01
  We're trying to see, do people like this thing?
• 16:02
  Do people want it? Can I sell a bunch of stuff #2
• 16:07
  Now that we've figured out that people want a bunch of stuff,
• 16:09
  we're going to try and see what selling channels should we
• 16:12
  optimize on what's going to work best.
• 16:16
  Then we're also going to try and come up with the selling
• 16:17
  framework. The reason why we need a selling
• 16:20
  framework is this. In the beginning, Coca-Cola boys
• 16:25
  that went from pharmacy to pharmacy.
• 16:26
  Eventually when this thing works, you need to hire other
• 16:30
  people that will start going from pharmacy to pharmacy on
• 16:33
  your behalf. This is where selling framework
• 16:35
  comes in. If you have a well established
• 16:37
  framework, when you're now hiring the next person that is
• 16:40
  going to start going from pharmacy to pharmacy, you'll be
• 16:42
  able to tell the person that, look, this is the sales channels
• 16:45
  we're doing, we're doing distributorship.
• 16:47
  We're only going to pharmacies and these are the kind of
• 16:50
  pharmacies we go to. Don't go to these kind of
• 16:52
  pharmacies because these tertiary pharmacy, they're not
• 16:54
  going to, our customers are not there.
• 16:58
  Go to this kind of pharmacies that are in VI or go to this
• 17:01
  kind of pharmacy that are on Lagos Island or go to this kind
• 17:04
  of pharmacy that can, you know, on and on.
• 17:07
  So that's why this stage is important.
• 17:11
  Figure out the sales channel, figure out the selling framework
• 17:13
  because eventually you're going to amass a team and you need to
• 17:16
  be able to direct your sales team accordingly so that they
• 17:18
  can sell well on your behalf. When you get the sales team,
• 17:22
  then the next step is going to be scaling your sales efforts.
• 17:26
  Scaling just means multiplying. Before it was you and your
• 17:30
  friend. We're from pharmacy to pharmacy.
• 17:32
  That's how you people started. If you don't have 5 people going
• 17:36
  pharmacy to pharmacy, then I mean obviously two people going
• 17:40
  to pharmacy, pharmacy to pharmacy are making progress.
• 17:42
  You hire 1010 people, those same people who take your selling
• 17:48
  methodology and your framework work to sell on your behalf.
• 17:50
  That is multiplying the effort. That is scaling the effort.
• 17:54
  That is what scale means in the primary sense.
• 17:56
  Well, of course, you know when we start talking tech, tech
• 18:00
  ideas anyway, for now, when you hear scale, that's just what it
• 18:04
  means. Scale just means multiplying
• 18:06
  efforts from scaling. You're going to get stable cash
• 18:09
  flows, you're going to get customers and stuff like that.
• 18:12
  Now from those steady customers and from that market, sorry, I
• 18:16
  said market from those steady customers and from, from those
• 18:20
  profits. Now that is where you're going
• 18:23
  to be able to get the money to start doing massive advertising,
• 18:27
  massive marketing, massive branding.
• 18:31
  These things don't come cheap. Those of you who are looking for
• 18:33
  branding specialist, you want somebody to design logo for you,
• 18:36
  You want the person to design letterhead for you.
• 18:38
  You want the person to build website for you.
• 18:41
  You want the person to build branding guide and everything
• 18:45
  for you. But you only want to pay the
• 18:46
  person 50K. Come on, wake up.
• 18:48
  Be realistic here. Be realistic.
• 18:51
  These things cost money. This is how you're going to be
• 18:53
  able to afford it. By starting off with marketing
• 18:55
  validation, establishing the selling framework, getting your
• 18:58
  sales channels, scaling on your efforts, getting customers,
• 19:02
  getting stable cash flows. Then you'll now be able to pay
• 19:05
  for it. So that if the person says OK or
• 19:07
  guy, I've looked at everything, this package that we're going to
• 19:10
  design for you, everything is going to be 400 K.
• 19:11
  Then you will have the 400 K to pay the person instead of trying
• 19:16
  to get solid branding output, but you want to pay the person
• 19:19
  50K. Please, let's get realistic
• 19:21
  here. By the way, I don't sell
• 19:23
  branding services, so I'm not angry that, you know, you guys
• 19:27
  are mispricing me or something, just in case you get the wrong
• 19:30
  idea. So that's it pretty much.
• 19:34
  Or another thing, when you start off this way, like Coca-Cola or
• 19:39
  Nike on the streets, talking to people, going to somebody's
• 19:44
  office, trying to sell things directly from your boot, you get
• 19:49
  a sense of who your customer is. You get a sense of what it is
• 19:52
  they like, what it is that they don't like, and you're going to
• 19:56
  get all the data that you need that will inform your brand.
• 20:01
  So when the Nike people just do it, blah, blah, blah, you know,
• 20:05
  all that jazz, all that stuff. The reason why they're able to
• 20:09
  get the thing right is because they are there in National
• 20:12
  Stadium or, you know, Joey Legba or whatever.
• 20:15
  They're talking directly to people.
• 20:17
  So when the branding team sits down and they say, look, we're
• 20:21
  going to build the brand around this, around this, around that,
• 20:24
  it is not guess work. It is because they know and
• 20:26
  they've been interacting with customers one-on-one or on the
• 20:30
  Coca-Cola end, they've been interacting with distributors
• 20:33
  one-on-one. They know what it is that the
• 20:35
  distributors like. They know what it is that the
• 20:36
  final customer likes. And that is also another reason
• 20:39
  why I say that we need to take this approach so that
• 20:43
  eventually, when you do have enough money and you call a
• 20:47
  branding person in to say, Oh yeah, let's manufacture
• 20:49
  something, let's work on the brand, you'll be able to tell
• 20:52
  the branding person that, OK, these are my customers, this is
• 20:55
  who I target. This is how they like to be
• 20:57
  treated. This is how they like to be
• 20:58
  talked to. And with that information, you
• 21:00
  guys will now select the right colours, the right logos, the
• 21:04
  right fonts, have the right philosophy behind, you know,
• 21:10
  designing your website or whatever, you know, all the
• 21:12
  fancy stuff that you branding people have to do.
• 21:15
  So that's also the reason why I say we should put the sales
• 21:18
  thing before the brand thing because actually the sales thing
• 21:21
  will give you the money that you can use to build the brand and
• 21:24
  also give you the data that you need to build the brand.
• 21:28
  Instead of doing all this, guess what that happens where you call
• 21:30
  the branding person. First, you create the logo, you
• 21:33
  come up with market positioning, you say you want to do luxury
• 21:36
  luxury, and then you hit the market, but the clients that
• 21:40
  you're servicing clearly are not luxury.
• 21:42
  And then there's that mismatch. Your positioning, your logo,
• 21:45
  your everything screams luxury, but meanwhile you're dealing
• 21:48
  with everyday Joe, So sorry, Joe's and Janet, let me be.
• 21:55
  What's that word? Let me make it equal here.
• 21:58
  Anyway, this episode doesn't have to be a long one.
• 22:02
  Bottom line is if you'd like to get out of your brand obsession,
• 22:05
  trying to start up your small and medium scale business, or if
• 22:08
  you want to see how you can integrate good sales practices
• 22:10
  with your brand, then reach out to me and connect.
• 22:13
  My phone number is 08064662140. The country code is +234.
• 22:21
  If you're going to buzz direct no Allah, it's no problem.
• 22:24
  If you're going to call on LinkedIn, however, please send a
• 22:27
  message ahead of time because there are too many fraudsters on
• 22:29
  WhatsApp. I don't know what is going on,
• 22:31
  so send me a message first. Heard you on the podcast blah
• 22:34
  blah blah. Would love to chat.
• 22:36
  We'll ping back and forth and then we'll hop in a phone call
• 22:38
  and then you can also connect with me on LinkedIn.
• 22:41
  My name is Tavishima Ayedi, I'm the host of the show.
• 22:43
  Look at the link. We're currently listening to
• 22:45
  this episode. If you're on YouTube, it's
• 22:48
  bottom left. You see my name there.
• 22:50
  Boldly highlight it, copy it, paste it in LinkedIn.
• 22:55
  My profile will come up, send me a connection request, and we
• 22:58
  could be vibing in another 24 to 48 hours.
• 23:00
  So thank you very much for your time.
• 23:01
  And what do I even say again? Anyway, thank you very much for
• 23:06
  your time. I'll catch you guys tomorrow.