Latest / UnF*ck Your Legal Marketing / Keeping Your Authentic Voice in the Age of AI with Kim Calvi

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Keeping Your Authentic Voice in the Age of AI with Kim Calvi · UnF*ck Your Legal Marketing

• UFYLM Kim Calvi Ep. 34: Welcome to Unfuck Your Legal Marketing, the show. Where we get brutally honest about marketing, business, and the messy middle of making it all work. I'm Gary Johnson, marketing coach, strategist, and professional BS detector for attorneys and business owners who are tired of doing what everyone else does. Around here, we skip the fluff. We have real conversations, real insights, and maybe a few F-bombs along the way. So let's get into it. Original thought. With the age of AI, it feels like we're losing this. And when it comes to marketing, is that actually okay? Today I'm joined by Kim Calvey. And Kim is the founder of Boston Edits for over 24 years. I know it doesn't look like it, but she has that sort of experience. And she's a content strategist who helps lawyers. strengthen their online presence. Kim works with attorneys to help them communicate what makes their expertise different while still keeping their original voice at the center of everything. So today we're going to be talking about the growing role of AI in content creation and why original thought and critical thinking and a distinct point of view are becoming even more important. As more professionals rely on AI. So I am so excited, Kim, to welcome you to Unfuck Your Legal Marketing. Thank you, Gary. It's a real privilege to be here today. The privilege is mine. Come on. So we're seeing a lot of attorneys use AI to create content. So at what point Does AI go from being a useful tool to becoming just a crutch for attorneys? That's an excellent question. And that's the million dollar question. A lot of I know, right? How about that? right out right off the gate. The problem with first of all, let me just say AI is a powerful and useful tool, but the operative word is tool. Like you touched on, it it it can it can become a crutch for some people, you know, if they're not careful. And I say people need to be cautious because it's very easy to default to what's easy, what's quick, what's handy, so forth. But that doesn't mean that it's appropriate. And by appropriate I mean AI can can overtake. And people really need to be cautious and and on the watch because We want to use it, but we wanna make sure that we we strike that delicate balance between where it's useful and in its in its proper place and that it's it but that it doesn't steal, compromise or undermine what we as professionals individually are trying to accomplish and demonstrate to our clients and even our peers. So when I when I work with clients, I say to them, Okay, you know, obviously we're all using AI in the w one degree or another. How how are you, how are you, how frequently are you using it and to what degree are you relying on it? That's always the question that I have with clients. And and I tell them to be honest with me because I can only help them to the degree that they're honest with me. So I've got some clients that are like, I I really don't I I use it for my personal, you know, for for personal assistance type of things. Like, I know, I I need a reservation at a resort. with these sure with these criteria. Okay, great. That's that's really good use for it. But the nine to five Monday through Friday requires a little bit more discipline, I say. And so what I say to people, you know, make sure that when you're if you're going to use AI, and we all are, be very disciplined about, be very methodical, be very studied and careful about it. And understand that AI, because it's just a tool, it's only something that's going to help you do what you already do faster. But just because something is faster doesn't mean that quality remains the same. Yeah, that's a good point. Right? So I say to people, yeah, if somebody wants to use AI for, I don't know, let's say they want to update some of their web c website content. Okay. Yep, that's fine. Let's look at what you currently have on your website and let's see how we can make it better if look in in terms of what it is that you want to add. And here's where we we really have to focus. We can put something through AI. We can run something through ChatGPT or Gemini or or any of them. Although another discussion for another day is all the different AI assistants and what the what their strengths are because they're not all the same. Right. Anyway, for the sake of argument, let's just say ChatGPT. Yeah. So if somebody's using Chat GPT and they want to add a couple of paragraphs to their website about a new area of law that their that their existing area is is seeing, noticing, and they need to add content. Okay. They might want to write a draft and they might want to run it through AI to refine it. The problem is, and maybe AI will in terms of like a a glorified spell check or grammarly tool, right? Okay. But the problem is We we've got to stop and say, okay, let's read it and let's see how does it match with the existing voice on your website. Because people are people are in a hurry. Everybody's in a hurry, but people are not stupid. And when they s for the most part. Yeah. But if somebody goes on somebody's yeah, well, there's, you know, there's that bell curve, right? So if you want me to be candid. Anyhow. Of course. Right? We could talk a whole podcast on stupid people. With the very degrees. I know, right? Yes, yes. We really I think everybody could, right? Because different things annoy all of us. Anyway, but we want to take so let's say somebody has says to me, Okay, Kim, I have a couple of paragraphs and I need to add to my website about a new area of law or a a new part, a new development in my area of law. Okay, that's reasonable enough. So I will look at somebody's entire website, get a get a sense of their voice, what their cadence is, how they're communicating, right? Because it really is. It's just two dimensional, but it's still communication. And we take that content and yeah, sure, they might say to me, All right, I've already I've already run it through Chat GPT, and I just need you, Kim, because you've got access to my website, just to put it on my website. I'm not going to just put it on somebody's website. I'm going to look at it and say, does it sound, does it blend? Is it first of all, is it accurate? Because if it's not accurate, your credibility goes right out the window. So doesn't matter what you say. But if it is accurate, if it if the if it doesn't, if those two new paragraphs, for example, don't match the rest of the voice of your website, people who are not stupid are gonna look at that and they're gonna be like, this suddenly sounds disjointed. And they're gonna be like, gee, I don't know. Because especially with lawyers, lawyers are a litigious detailed group of people. Right? I mean, they get paid to be very careful, very specific, and good lawyers really are. And and we all know that. And so they need to make sure that their social presence continues to posture that way and has to be consistent. So I know that's a very long answer to your question, but that is really the basis for where I start. It's like, okay, what do you have? What do you want to do? Let's make sure we do it correctly and let's be disciplined about it so it doesn't get out of hand and make you look bad, because that's really the worst thing that can happen. Yeah, I totally agree. And a lot of people are like saying, well, AI has learned how to speak my my tone, my pitch, all that kind of stuff. And and I agree and disagree with that because I agree that it does get better and better because it's a LLM. However I have seen people's posts that they started to use Chat GPT last year. And then I see their post now and they're completely different. They're completely different. Right. And and it's because they are not taking charge over what does this sound like? There's too many times that it it gets it right, it gets it right, and then we just go. I don't need to read this. Copy, paste, go. Copy, paste, go. No. And and I think that goes back to what you were saying. The discipline is so important. Because if you're not, you're fucking killing yourself in regards to the authenticity. Because even if somebody isn't smart, their intuition is gonna go, this just sounds disjointed, right? Right. You're gonna go, and that ruins trust. Because now you're like, Did they write it? Did somebody else write it? And and I'm sure you, in your brilliance of what you've done over twenty-four years, you have you have become so great at being able to talk other people's language, right? And you understand your clients. You get to know your clients extremely well. And then you talk in their language so that you can create this wonderful content that will not only hit the mark, but also sounds just like them. So that it stays consistent over and over. So when you say crutch though, say okay, they use it, is that like what I was saying, the copy paste? Or are they using it in a different way for crutch? No, by and large, it's a copy and paste. Yeah, they just they they use they go on ChatGPT or Gemini or wherever and they take the information and they put it in their own Word document or Google Docs or whatever it is they're using and Yeah, they their letterhead on it and and then they send it off. obviously a lawyer's not gonna do that with, a brief or a memorandum or anything. And they I'm sure they're making sure that their legal assistants and paralegals are certainly not doing that either. And the younger generation, they they've grown up with this. I need to say this. They grew they've grown up with this. So to them it's normal, but it really does it it does jeopardize critical thinking and original thought, which we'll get into later. But the lawyers that I work with, they it it won't be a crutch if they if they continue to be disciplined. if they're just okay, I need to do a social media post. And and my clients rely on me to do their social media posts for them. They don't even touch it. So to your point where I get into I understand how they how they speak, how they communicate. I've got a couple of clients that they speak the way, for example, Hemingway used to write, which is very short I don't want to say abrupt, but very short pointed sentences, right? And then I have a couple of clients where they will send me a blog that they wrote that I need to proofread and copy edit. And it it's like one run long one long run on sentence. But that's because they're just writing the way they're thinking, because they know that I'm going to clean it up, right? So I do that because I know how they're I know how they really want it to sound and so I do I you know, I make it bloody. That's what we call in the trade. We take our red pen and we you know, we do that, clean it up, make it look crazy. Yeah. my God. I'm gonna R and D that, which is rip off and I've been saying it for years and years because I mean that you know, I sit there with my proverbial Sharpie, right? Or I'm redlining it on a computer and that's what I'm doing and you know and I it's not like I'm and I'm not compromising the content or their thought, but I am copy editing in a way that is is pleas a pleasure to read. Because you you read somebody's run on one long sentence and it's like it's just distracting and it it's just Yeah, it's one thing to it's one thing to speak that way because you're looking at the speaker and they're using their hands and you f you know their tone of voice and so on and so forth. But writing y is altogether different. Anyhow. Yep, totally. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So So you you had talked about original thought. I do want to jump into that because I think I think it's becoming more valuable. Yeah. But as AI generating content for attorneys becomes more common. Why is it that original thought is going to be so valuable? So valuable. So okay. So the attorneys that I work with, they they do. They draft their own complaints, their own memorandums, briefs, and so forth. They they have to and good lawyers want to. And they're trained to be very they're they're trained to be good readers and good writers. Yeah, they may have to refine it a little bit, but generally speaking, really good lawyers, they know how to communicate in within the confines of a legal document, right? They appropriately. Okay. But it's for the marketing. There that's an altogether different thing because sometimes, and I've worked with a couple of attorneys where they do, they write their marketing exactly like a legal brief. And I'm like, Okay, you know what? You've just turned everybody off. The only person who underst yeah, the only group of people who understand what you just wrote are other attorneys and a a judge. Joe on the street who's a client who's looking for you to represent them, you just spoke over their heads and now they're intimidated and they're not gonna call you. so there's gotta be that relatability. So what when I work with lawyers and they're marketing, I make sure that they don't lose it's a few things. It's a it's a it's a yeah, it is, it's a few things. It's three at least a three-prong thing. I make sure that what was what is written is true, obviously, and that goes without saying, but that it's true in an authentic way as well. But that it sounds like them and it's a good use of Engl American English grammar, right? And then obviously legalese, right? So to take so but so then to take those th those con conditions and write something for social media, I need to make sure that what I write is direct, that it's not the Magna Carta. I see some of these blog these blog posts and they're fun reading for sure, but they're really long. It's like people really unless you have a dedicated readership, people aren't gonna read that much content. you write along along social media posts, let's say on LinkedIn, not and I'm not talking about a blog, because that's different. Everybody expects that to be a little longer. I'm talking about a social media post on LinkedIn and they write and they write and they write. And it's like, okay, you know what? you lost me halfway through because I've I've got to move on. So when I write with for my clients, it's like all right, what is going to be concise? Sounds like them, is correct in all the ways I just articulated, but it's going to grab people's attention and make them stand out. Yeah. No, and it's going to resonate Maybe with their peers, because maybe lawyers, they they refer business back and forth. An a state planning attorney might refer business to a divorce attorney or if you know a family law attorney, right? they I let's just use them as an example. And that attorney, that estate planning attorney needs to be able to say to their client, please look at so and so's website. And that person's website, right? That family law attorney, for example, their website has to sound they know what they're doing. They've been doing it a long time. They're good at it. But that they are, especially with family law, because you're dealing with divorce or custody or whatever, you're dealing with some delicate personal issues, right? Sensitive, emotionally charged issues. And you need to make sure that the website draws people in, that they're gonna linger on your website, they're gonna look around, not just for what they were looking for, but also, okay, well, I get a comfortable feeling from this this this attorney. I'm gonna look at the rest of their website. look, they've got these blogs. Wow, they're really on top of what's going on in the world of family law in the state of Massachusetts. And that, like you said, it doesn't ruin trust. It it builds it, it fortifies it. So the idea is you want people to linger on their website, make the phone call to the attorney, because their social media, starting with their website, is welcoming, is clear, is easy to navigate, which that's a technical thing, which that's another story, but has all the content on it that is going to speak to and resonate with your intended audience. And my clients hired me to I've I've I've worked with attorneys that they came to me and they already had their website, they had their website content already done. And it was good. It was very good. And but I went in and I was like, you know, I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't think I should proofread this a little bit because maybe maybe there's something that's could be written better. or I need to ask you a question about well, is this information about you still true? No, or how long ago did this happen? You said recently, but was recently six months ago or was recently ten years ago? Because w those are those those are important details, right? Right. Right. Anyway, I'm getting into the weeds here, but the point is my clients come to me and they say, Okay, here's my social media presence, my website, my LinkedIn profile. I I I have a Google business profile that I'd like to use more because I'd like to do social media posts and so on, because obviously if you're active in social media, Google's gonna index that and it's going to increase your rankings organically. Which again, that's another podcast because a lot of a lot of people think, well, if I just pay for a ranking, then that's that does help. That'll certainly push you to the top. But it doesn't let cl potential clients know how good you are. And there are other mechanisms to use in social media to make sure that you are highly ranked or more highly ranked authentically based on your activity, your testimonials. Yeah. Those two those are the two biggest things. Yeah. And I think one one thing for our listeners that is I think crucial, especially for attorneys, is brevity. You want to make things short because our attention span is so quick. And going back to the old Einstein quote is if you if you want to be seen as a genius, you need to be able to s to explain something that is extremely con complex to a fifth grader. And but there's so much truth to that because I always find that the most brilliant attorneys that actually understand how to be concise, they will be they will use analogies. They will you know they'll be able to put stories out that goes my God. I didn't know that Arissa was that. how many people know what Arissa is? And when you when you ex can explain that in such a simplistic terms, everybody gets it. But the most important thing is people trust you. They trust your competence and they know that you will not be talking over people's heads. Right. Because if I'm referring you to somebody and they're like, Yeah, you know, Kim is really a brilliant attorney. But she didn't I just I just didn't feel this vibe because I felt like I was stupid. I felt like I was less than. And nobody wants to feel that way. We are expecting the attorneys to be unbelievably competent in what they do, but we don't want to feel less than. We don't want people to put us down going, Don't you worry about that. I got that because I went to school for 30 years and I get this. You know, you're like, Okay, great. Explain it to me so that I can make more confident decisions. So that I can say, Kim, we're going in the I I think that we might be going in the wrong direction because of this. Uh-huh. Like and when they can do that marketing wise, like you were saying, it's powerful. People actually freaking read it. So they'll be like, Okay, I get it. And they'll keep coming back. Right. Again and again and again. And that's gonna differentiate you from the other people. and you know. It's ridiculous that most people don't do it, but they don't know it because they're not like you and I that we this is our everything, right? but this is the reason why they're like, Hey, I understand the law really well. Content not so much. Let me reach out to Kim. Let me have that conversation with him with her and see where we can go with this so that they can still be that critical thinker. Right. So that they can still be the the person who is the expert at this. Well, thank you. Yeah. And and that's the thing. I I work with li again, going back to family law attorneys, but even estate planning attorneys that I work with and personal injury attorneys, they're in the practice areas of of people, right? so I I I'm gonna use them as a as a baseline example, right? So whatever they have on their social media, again their website, wherever they have a social media presence, if they're still using Facebook, and Facebook is valuable for that, by the way. A lot of people are like, that's so yesterday. I'm like, No, it still gets out there. It's it's important. Yeah. Anyway, where wherever anybody has a social media presence, that's the point. Like they're these attorneys, they know that They know what they're doing and they know that they do it very well, but they also know that they need to communicate it in a way that is going to kindly well in a welcoming way resonate with their potential clients. And you know, personal injury attorneys, the ones that I work with, that I'm privileged to work with, they they really understand that. They they understand that sure, somebody has been injured and has suffered and maybe their maybe their livelihood has been jeopardized, right? The ability to provide for their family and that's that's a scary anxiety ridden concept, right? So they they address that first before they get to the I'm gonna win you big dollars. Yes. right, I mean, you know Yeah, we live in Massachusetts, just drive up nine, you know, into Boston and how how many billboards you I'm probably gonna crucify for sitting this, but I stand by what I say. these well, you see these billboards, right? And I'm sure that they're effective. Sure. But right, why would why would people spend money to to publish to advertise like that? But the attorneys that I work with, they're a little bit more, if I can use the analogy, instead of advertising quite so broadly like that, they're they're a little bit more, you know, come to our if they're if you've if somebody finds a client of mine, personal injury client of mine, and goes to their website, they're gonna see That the questions are answered, that that they that they do care, that they're compassionate, that they understand that there's been some suffering and that's ongoing perhaps, right? Yeah. and to a severe degree. And it it it it it it's a real life changing event, unfortunately, and so there's gotta be some compensation there. So but there's gotta be some fellow feeling and understanding first before they get to the okay, now we're gonna talk about a strategy for for a legal you know, a legal claim. 'Cause that is important, but You s the human touch has to be there. The family law attorneys that I work with, there's this one client that I have, she's a very good family law attorney and she's incredibly smart. But she when I first met with her, she told me that her approach is to very deliberately make sure that her clients understand absolutely everything that she has initially has explained and continues to explain to them and has made a safe space for them really to say, Okay, you know, I really don't understand that and I know I need to make an informed decision. Can you explain it to me again? And she has said to me that she will like to your point uses analogies or illustrations so that it sticks with them so that they can be like, All right, I'm dealing with this legal situation that's going to impact the rest of my life or at least the a a period of the immediate period of time here. Right. Right. And then and good la lawyers, they know they w that they want to help their their clients make informed decisions. so in any case, th that's why I saw social media has to be out there. It's a useful tool, so is artificial intelligence, but they have their place and they have to be used properly. Again, because what we really never want to forget, again, compromise or jeopardize, like I said at the beginning of our conversation, Gary, we want to make sure that original thought and critical thinking are never lost. Those are the things that always have to remain and they have to be deep seated into, w the the quality of work that that professionals, not just lawyers, because I work with other professionals, but lawyers need to deliver. And they all know that. But again, the reason you and I are having this conversation is 'cause sometimes social media it's so ubiquitous, right? And there's constant information coming up, people they don't really know where to start. And that's usually when they call me. They're just like, look, I'm overwhelmed. I'm inundated. I'm trying to run my own law practice. I don't I don't have time to learn all this, Kim. You do it. You know? I mean they're certainly smart enough. They just don't have the bandwidth. And yeah. That's why they're it's not their expertise. You know? and Especially on certain things like this. It's like look, we need to o outsource this to you because you're gonna be able to run with it, So going back to differentiating ourselves and not being so sounding the the same as each other, do you think that AI is making a lot of attorneys' content sound the same? And if so, what any advice for attorneys on how they can deliberately avoid sounding like everybody else while still using AI. So what they need to do is if they're going to use AI, is again they need to be very careful about how and when they do use it. Okay. And like for example, if somebody wanted to publish an FAQ page for their website, okay, which they should. All right. They want to make sure that if they want to say, okay, I need like, you know, 10 or 12 questions For a new FAQ page on my website and they run it through ChatGPT or Gemini. And they say, I'm a personal injury attorney and I focus on traumatic brain injury. Let let's say. Okay. They don't handle dog bites, they handle big ticket cases, right? Like tr you know, traumatic brain injury. They want to make sure that the information that they get back, okay, it is maybe out used as a base, as a guideline, and then they take it and then they in turn they edit it so that it does sound like them. Or they give to me and then I make it sound like them. And to your answer, and that a that should to answer your question, make it so that it doesn't sound like everybody else. I will say, and I have to throw this in because I think this is this is funny to me. When AI f first entered the workspace, I have a client who he writes his own blogs and that's fine. But he was running it through AI and he knew darn well, of course he's gonna send it to me and I'm gonna edit it and before he published it. And And that's fine. okay. I personally prefer to write my blogs from scratch, but if he wants to write his own blogs, th go for it. Yep. But he knows he's gonna send it to and I'm gonna copy edit it, which by the way is different from a a a proofread. Copy editing is, Anyway. So and I noticed after this the by the second he sent me the first the first blog and I was like, Okay, I noticed something. And the second blog I noticed the same thing. I'm like, hmm All right. But the third time I noticed the exact same thing. And that thing was that the second and fifth paragraphs were verbatim, word for word. No. No. my God. What a huge mistake. Potential mistake. But but potential. Think potential. Potential. But that's the that's the that's that's that's that's that's the important description there because he sent it to me knowing full well. So, you know, I just yeah, X'd off the fifth paragraph and then I edited the rest. And made it sound like it made it bloody, then I made it look pretty, sent it back to him for his approval, and that was the end of it. Because he wasn't he wasn't publishing f false information with his industry, but it was I had kind of taken over and taken it and elaborated unnecessarily and something else to watch out for, but he trusted me to take care of it, which I did, which I do. Yeah. So so it's fine. so So there's that. And that's just an example of one of the little checks that I do for my clients too in terms of social media and publishing and the content. Yeah. Because again, and this is this is a another little catchphrase that I wanted to talk a little bit about. thought leadership. I have to say, since AI joined entered the workplace and basically became ubiqu as ubiquitous as it is, I have not heard the expression thought leadership in a while. And I think that okay, there's, original thought and critical thinking, and both of those should never go away, should never be compromised. And they are really, presumably, the baseline for thought leadership, right? Because thought leadership is all about somebody being a pioneer or a maverick and okay, well, this is my original thought and my critical thinking, and this is what I've noticed in my industry, and this is an idea that I want to have catch on or that I want to explore or even get people talking about, right? That's thought leadership, isn't it? Okay. Well, with AI, that could be that could take a backseat. And because I haven't heard the term thought leadership in a while, I have to wonder. So interesting. Yeah. So, you know, I say to my clients, and again, a lot of them are lawyers, so they're not going to be like, well, thought leadership, right? I they're there to practice law. They're not there to necessarily, you know, make changes. Lawmakers do that. but it's still a it's still a transferable principle in that. what I was talking about. They want the way they communicate, the way they come across on their two dimensional website to welcome website visitors, get the attention of people who saw their social media post so that they that person will go on the website and linger and re get a real feel for what my client, that attorney, is all about, how they how they practice law in their practice area and how they take care of their clients and i and and that they're good communicators and that their clients never have to worry about you know that they're just like you said, you know, I I got it, I got it, you don't have to worry. Well Yeah. You know, that's That's not gonna help me in any way. No, no, no. No. Yeah. And you don't need to explain everything, but just allow me to feel comfortable that I made a confident decision of hiring you and that I understand which direction that we're going in. And if I don't, there's gonna be a lot of uneasiness Where am I gonna be? Where am I not? and no, I I think you're you're right on. so what would be your advice for somebody who thinks, my God, thought leadership is overwhelming. Do I really have an original thought? I'm not very confident in that. What would you be your advice for them to to say, hey, whether it's inspirational, it's hey, this is what you need to be doing, but How would you approach that? So I would just say talk to someone whom you trust whom has knows you or is willing to spend some time getting to know you. and have a have an honest, transparent conversation about your practice, your B2B business, what your frustrations are, what you're noticing, what you know you're good at, what you'd like people to know about you, you know, whether it's how you how you practice your area of law. or what your accomplishments are and how those accomplishments are beneficial to your potential clients, right? it's one thing to talk about your resume. It's another thing to explain why it benefits everybody else. Okay. So I would say, you know, h find somebody who, you know, under s and and someone like myself who understands marketing but also understands it it and there marketing is a very broad term. I mean we all know that, right? the thing with marketing is that, you know, I I mean I what makes me different, and I'm just gonna say this, I got s my start writing 30 plus years ago. I can't even believe it's been that long, but there we are. yeah. Writing white papers in IT. And so God. Yeah. So so I yeah. So I understand IT I better than the average person. Okay. And I under and I work in marketing and I work with lawyers and I've been to law school. So like the three together, it's like okay, I I put it all together and it's a pretty good combination. So I say to people, you know, talk to somebody who understands. your business or is willing to un learn your business and learn you, okay, understands technology and understands marketing. Because somebody might understand marketing, but they might understand marketing from 15 years ago. Well, I've got news for you. It changes faster than that. absolutely. And honestly without us even realizing it because we live such in in such a speedy world, if you will. we do. And you know, and and and talk to someone and and say, you know, this is this is where I feel like I'm my knowledge is lacking in terms of how I can better promote myself on social media. I mean, I've had I've actually, you know, candidly, I've had a couple of clients that have said to me, you know, can I just talk to you for half an hour? Okay. And I look at you know, and they're like, I don't think I'm doing this right. And I don't and I I look wherever they have a social media, you know, their website, social media posts and so forth, I'm like, You're actually in really good shape. You've got a couple of gaps here and here. But otherwise, you're in much better shape than most people. And they're honestly astonished. So good for them. But then I have some clients that come to me and they're like, I I'm a complete neophyte. What you know? They they they understand that social media is not the same thing as flinging off a text about takeout for dinner that night. But they they don't know anything. They don't know beyond that. And I'm like, Okay, well you know, let's talk about what you're comfortable with and you know, because there are lots of things we can do. That's the beauty of marketing. There's so much we can do, you know, regular, Print marketing and then obviously digital marketing and both are important and depending on one's business, you know, there we might one might be more social media focused versus print. But I've got a couple of clients where print matters just as much as social media. And you know, we've got to factor in, you know, those tools too. You know, th that that collateral for them. Yeah, I love that advice because When the the gremlins that are in our head and we're like, I'm not a thought leader and dah da and then you talk to a friend about hey, can I spend a few minutes? Can I spend thirty minutes? Because l let's just be honest, it's not gonna be five minutes. Right. And so you you set the expectation, hey Kim, can I talk to you for thir for 30 minutes? Because I wanna kind of explain what I do, but how I think about it. And then they give you feedback and I can almost guarantee they're gonna go, I didn't know that. I didn't know that. I didn't know that. That ex then you go, I actually can have an original thought in my head. Even if, yes, somebody may have had that. But are we listening to every single person in this world? No. We're listening to you right at this moment. And it just allows us as either consumers of your services. Or referral sources for you to go, I know what Kim thinks. I get it. and that becomes the thought leadership that enables people to propel forward, which I think is such an important element because we need to be confident in regards to what the hell is going on up here so that we can put it out there and not feel like an imposter syndrome. And I just love that. And and especially in this age of AI, I absolutely like. Listeners, if you're just getting one thing out of here, use AI as a tool to keep, not to take away, but to keep your authentic voice. Utilize AI to help you come up with some stuff, but be a thought leader out there. Have that original thought that is is out there. Even if it's just a tiny bit original, that's okay because people need to know. Kim, thank you. Like this has been amazing. your information is is great. It's the reason why you're so fing good at what you do and why you've been doing it for so damn long. But seriously, because we sometimes don't think of these different things. We don't think of, hey, you need to be disciplined and have guidelines with AI. It can just copy paste it, you know. No. Don't do that. You can make a huge mistake, even if it has worked in the past. And Even though we didn't talk about your writing skills, because for listeners, sh go to her website. it is like talk to her. If you are thinking about, hey, I want to get some better content out there, some content that's gonna move the needle. Talk to Kim. We're gonna put Kim all of your contact information in the show notes because if you said it, nobody would freaking know. Also, if you look on her back screen, whatever that you call that. she's got she's got the QR QR code. She is a marketing genius on this. So reach out to Kim. Thank you, Kim, for your time here. Thank you for spending the time and for sharing your insights so that we can unfuck our legal marketing. We really can. one step at a time. Yeah, thank you. No, it was I enjoyed it I enjoyed our conversation. I hope I made some sense for people listening and you know, it it it i it is it it is a it's it's a big deal. You know, people think that sometimes that it isn't, but it really is and that's why when people s people are surprised and they realize how overwhelming it can be. but that's that's why people call me. You know, they're just like I've I've got I've gotta get a handle on this before I do F it up and Yeah. and it's and I'm happy to help my clients do that because everybody's got something to offer other people and it but it has to be conveyed properly and there are all kinds of ways we can use it, whether or not they even use AI. You know? maybe they don't want to. And that's okay too. You know? Yeah. all right with that. Absolutely. Yep. But yeah, at least use your brain always. So that's such an important element. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I really appreciate you and all your time. likewise. No, this was fun for me, so thank you so much for having me on your show, Gary. It was a real privilege. Absolutely. Thank you. Thank you. That's it for today's episode of Unfuck Your Legal Marketing. If you got a spark of inspiration. Learn something new, or at least got a good laugh. Make sure to follow, rate, and share this with someone who needs to hear it. Thanks for hanging out with me. And remember, the best marketing is the one that actually sounds like you. See you next time.