Latest / Thrive A/F (After Forty) / Keep Ruling with Brandon Fields of Old Bones Therapy | Thrive A/F Ep. 13
Transcript
- Lou Fratto: Finish this question, fill it in. You know you're old when Brandon Fields: just getting up off the ground requires really loud groaning and moaning Lou Fratto: Sorry. Brandon Fields: and why does everything the older you get, you're you're s you moan and you're just you catch yourself doing it and you're like, God, I'm old now. Keith: Hello and welcome to Thrive A/F. That's Thrive After 40. This is episode 13. And I am one of your hosts, Keith Calleja. I'm here at Atlanta, Georgia, where I am one of the owners of CrossFit Terminus. And I'm here with two of my good friends. Lou, why don't you go ahead and say hello to everybody? Lou Fratto: My name is Lou Fratto. I'm a physical therapist, active longevity specialist and owner of Delray Care Physical Therapy, down here in sunny Delray Beach. And let me tell you what, Keith, I am super excited about today's guest. Because chances are, if you're listening or watching this podcast, you're probably over 40, but you ain't done yet. And you wanna keep thriving and living life to the fullest. And that means you want to keep trying new things and you want to keep doing the things that you've always loved doing, in spite of maybe you know, collecting a few bumps and bruises and injuries along the way. And our guest today lives that life. I mean, he is the epitome of that. Couldn't be a better example. he is in his fifties and he is still skating. At an extremely high level. We're talking vert ramps. He also rides motorcycles at an extremely high level. And he took it a step further and opened up a company that actually helps other people do the same thing. And then as he puts it, continue ruling and being active at life. And his name is Brandon Fields, and he is the CEO and founder of Old Bones Therapy based out of San Francisco. Francisco, California. Brandon, thank you so much for being with us. We are stoked. Brandon Fields: man, thank you very much for the kind kind words and the introduction. I'm Brandon Fields, founder of Old Bones Therapy. I'm 53 years old, by the way. Keith: Nice. Brandon Fields: Yeah, our motto started out keeping you keeping you active and ruling at life and we just shortened it to keep ruling, but that's basically the meaning behind it. So the Thrive A/F podcast, staying active over 40. I mean, you guys are speaking speaking directly to me. So happy to be here. Keith: Awesome. Lou Fratto: That's awesome. Keith: Yeah, thanks for joining us. Lou Fratto: Awesome. Keith: I know you're you're as a founder and owner and CEO and you got multiple things going on. We appreciate you taking the time to come on with us today. So Lou Fratto: Yeah. Brandon Fields: Absolutely. I I was just talking to Keith a little earlier and I came across you guys on Substack and I I don't rem it just came up in my feed and I read that first article and it was like I like I said, it just totally resonated with me and I just remember commenting and saying something and then Lou reached out directly and was just like, Hey man, thanks for you know, getting in there and commenting. So I I do that when some when something I read it was just like, Yeah, I I get what these guys are doing and what you guys are building. So yeah, spoke to me. Lou Fratto: I gotta say, you are like one of the friendliest guys I've ever come across. I mean, know you have to be like super busy. So like Keith said, just thank you so much for carving time out of your schedule. But you man, you just exude this super friendliness and it's really, really nice to to come across that. You know, it's kudos to you. Brandon Fields: appreciate it. I d I don't know. When I come acros Keith: So Lou, how did how did Brandon Fields: when I come across something that just I know you guys are building something pretty cool and I don't it just I felt like I had to reach out and and chat with you guys, even if it was just a a comment to say, Hey, like that's really cool and you guys are you know, it resonated with me. So I Lou Fratto: Yeah, it's awesome. Brandon Fields: appreciate it. Keith: Lou, I you have a story about how this relationship or at least this first contact thing started. You wanna talk a little bit about that? Because I know that you have some direct experience with branded products and that translated into where we are today through a little path. You wanna tell that story real quick? Lou Fratto: Yeah, yeah. So I'll try not to make this too long, but but I feel like there's a lot of details to it that are important. you know, we've talked about on other podcasts that you know, I'm in my late fifties, I still do jiu-jitsu that's my favorite hobby. it is, you know, somewhat of a rough rough hobby. And I sustained an injury, a pretty significant knee injury, and I was it kept me off the mats for three and a half months and being a physical therapist, you know, I did my own rehab and when I was I felt ready to return to the mats but I wasn't a hundred percent and just like a lot of activities jiu-jitsu you can only control so much and so I was concerned okay if my knee gets put into a position a certain position or is t you know made to do a certain motion that it's not ready for it could set me back to day one. And so I was looking for some a little bit more control a little bit more of a way to control the variables so i said all right i need a i need a knee brace so but it had to meet certain criteria so the first was it had to be bright and colorful and Brandon Fields: Yeah. Lou Fratto: and it because Keith: Why is that one of your main criteria? Lou Fratto: it has to look cool but but but not only that when you are in jiu-jitsu and if you're at the right school and had it has the right culture y you can really challenge each other, but nobody wants to hurt anybody else. And so if you're coming back with an injury and you're still not a hundred percent, the first thing you do when you go to train with somebody or spar with somebody is you tell them, Hey, we gotta be careful with my right knee. I'm coming back from an injury, and and they're more than happy. yes, let's let's take care of that knee. But in the heat of battle, it's easy to forget on your own body which part is injured, let alone your partners. You know, you're thinking, is it the right knee, the left knee, whatever. So I wanted the brace to be bright and colorful, like a beacon that just said, hey, this is the knee, you know, that that reminded both of us, leave this knee be, you know, and so I brought the brace. So you can see this bright Keith: look that. Lou Fratto: red here w just acted like that beacon and did the job. but then the other thing that it it had to B) was it it needed to be safe for my training partner. So I couldn't it couldn't have a lot of metal exposed, you know, because the last thing you want is their finger getting caught in some kind of metal joint on the knee or or you banging it up against their head and now they have a you know laceration or a or a head injury because of exposed metal. So this does not have that. I did get the the brace with the stays on the sides and the little hinges but they're padded really well and and also a note is once you don't need these anymore you can pull them out so it's super flexible Keith: Mm-hmm. Lou Fratto: in that manner And then the final thing was, okay, it had to offer the support that I needed, and it had to stay on my leg because it's not going to do me much good if it comes off the first minute of training, you know. And the way they designed this is awesome. It's a little wider at the top, so it, you know, it's shaped more like a regular leg. It accommodates your thigh muscles, and it has some really cool rubber in here that's not annoying to your skin at all, but it it helps it grow. grip the skin. And I think just the quality of the stretchiness of the fabric helps it to hold on to your knee. And there's I'm sure you know Brandon can speak more to all of the engineering and stuff like that. But point Keith: Sounds like Lou's auditioning for a job here. Lou Fratto: Point being, it did the job. And again, I told you this is gonna be long story. So I come home and I say, okay, it's a little sweaty. I gotta, I gotta clean this thing. You know, I don't want it to get nasty. And I wasn't sure how to do that correctly. So I emailed the company, and within an hour, I got an incredible response. It was like, hey, thank you so much for buying the brace. here's how you take care of it, you know, keep ruling. And and I was just like, wow, that's a that's amazing customer service. service. I'm in the service industry. I've been in it my entire life. I know good service when I see it. And I thought I gotta, I gotta send her back an email saying thank you for the great service. So I wrote the customer service rep back and I said, by the way, I'm a physical therapist. I do jiu-jitsu and your brace was awesome. I love it. I'm gonna recommend it to my patients and my clients. And then that's when Brandon actually responded to me and that's kind of what started the whole the whole thing. So anyway, yeah Keith: Very cool. Lou Fratto: Did I leave anything out? I don't know. Brandon Fields: I'm gonna tell I'm gonna tell Nicole this story later. She's gonna get a kick. She's our customer support girl. She's she's awesome, man. So love it. Lou Fratto: Yeah. she She is great. Yeah. So that was the start. Keith: Well there was a lot, there's a lot wrapped up in that story about the product and about the company and about all the thought that obviously went into developing these products. And maybe Brandon, that's a great segue to you to maybe talk a little bit about how you started Old Bones, because I know that's a really interesting story and kind of your philosophy, not only around product development and you know, what you guys do and and the work that you put in there, but also the way that you kind of run the company as a whole. Brandon Fields: Sure. where do I start? I at the beginning. Well Keith: They've the beginning. Brandon Fields: I mean By trade, I'm a software engineer. So I'm a person who's also a skateboarder. And so I sit at my desk for hours on end every single day. And then like a lot of people, I'm a I go out on a Saturday and I I get active in my sport of choice and usually by Monday I'm cursing myself, what the hell just happened? You know, weekend warrior syndrome, you know, and so I don't two two thousand sixteen, ten years ago, I I been reading a lot of books about entrepreneurship and and I had always wanted to kind of like start my own company and and a lot of the things I were was reading talked about solving solving your own pain points basically like build a company that solves your own pain points and so that's what I did in 2016 I'm I'm a six foot one 200 plus pound skateboarder my lower back was just really upset with me you know in my My mid forties, my my lower back's telling me, What the hell did you just do to me? And so I I was like icing my back a lot when I got home. So I'd be I would take an ice pack, I'd like wrap it up in like a kitchen towel, something it had to be thin enough that like I could feel it on my back. And you know, I'm trying to tie it, wrangle it, it's slipping out, falling on, trying to cook dinner at the same time and and I'm just like and that was when the light bulb kinda went off. The the Keith: Dude, this is the the same exact story. Brandon Fields: light bulb went off, I'm just like, why does Somebody not just have a back brace that has a pouch built into it and I can just buy three or four ice packs and just have them on rotation in the freezer. And that was like how old bones therapy started ten years ago. Side hustle while working a full-time job as a software engineer and it just kinda went from there. Keith: When did you start branching out or when did you realize you were onto something with the first design of the ice pack and start thinking about how could you e I guess expand this into other areas that that were holes and and pain points for you and the other people that you're hanging around with? Brandon Fields: Yeah, So in in the beginning it started out just as this one product idea. But then you kinda take a step back and you start thinking about like, well, what is it I'm really trying to build here, you know? And and just being the skateboarder and into extreme sports like I am, mountain biking, surfing, you know, recently got into riding dirt bikes. like I do a lot of things and and for me I didn't want to just have a brand that sold back races with ice packs on Amazon. I wanted to build a brand that spoke to me and people like me. So being a skateboarder, I kind of took a step back and and and thought to myself, well, how could I expand this product line and build products that solve my pain points and also like other skateboarder pain points. And then you know I I literally I'm I'm not a genius product designer or anything. Like I borrow ideas. I mean I saw see these guys Running down the street, running, and they're wearing like knitted compression sleeves on their legs and knees. And in skateboarding, I had always worn these neoprene, they call them knee gaskets, and they go Keith: Mm-hmm. Brandon Fields: under your skate pads and they get really sweaty, they don't breathe, and they just they break down after like a month. They're you know, but that's just what everybody used. So I thought to myself, hey, those look cool. I did a bunch of research and testing. I think I bought 10 of them on. On Amazon. I show up at my local skate park, we're skating this big 11 foot deep bowl, and there's a bunch of my old friends, and I'm just passing them out, hey, try these instead of your neoprene knee gaskets. And like everybody just immediately was like, whoa, these are awesome. And and now it's just like, okay, we're gonna expand into that. And that's kind of the cool thing about like our brand is We are into extreme sports and we're also a medical type brand, therapeutic. We we build products that s solve pain points for people, whether it's mom and pop, grandma, grandpa, whether it's your thirty year old street skater whose knees are starting to get sore because they've gone off too many rails or stair sets. And you know, it's just it it it just never ending. Like our Our product line continues to expand to this day. And it all comes down to solving a pain point. So Lou Fratto: You mentioned in there that you you're kind of on the medical side as well and I noticed that you ca so someone can use their HSA account to purchase the the to some of the products or all the products or Brandon Fields: absolutely. we partnered with this company called Truemed and basically they integrate with our Shopify backend. And so if you sell products that could possibly solve a pain point and you could explain, hey, this is the reason I'm using this compression knee sleeve, or this is the reason I need this back brace, then they allow you to use your HSA FSA funds to purchase. So that's that's a a neat thing that people can save a bit of money by by using that those types of payment methods, yeah. Lou Fratto: Yeah, it's awesome. Keith: Yeah, one of the things you talked about this compression, compression socks and compression in general. And I think you guys are in in better position to explain this than I am. I wear standard kind of neoprene knee sleeves and crossfit just because it seems like that's what everybody wears. But I don't know, maybe could you guys talk a little bit about what compression does and why is it important? Is it a recovery thing or is it a protection or what's I guess what's the central idea behind why compression is good for joints and for muscles? Brandon Fields: Lou, you're gonna definitely answer this. But before you before you do, I I I mean, I didn't know anything about compression. I wanted to ice my back. And then I created like this back brace product where even if I wasn't icing my back, I started like cinching it down. And like I just as soon as I did that, it was like the pinch nerve, whatever it was that was bugging me, like it felt better. Lou Fratto: Yeah. Brandon Fields: And then same thing with like a compression knee sleeve. Like my knees swollen, like things are hurting. You pull on a compression knee sleeve, it just feels better. You feel like more supported. Now, like this is where like Lou, you could probably answer like why? Why? Why is that? Lou Fratto: Yeah. Brandon Fields: Because I just know it works. So Lou Fratto: Yeah, it does work. it's I mean compression itself is you know, can provide many benefits, one of which, you know, to prevent additional swelling. But just having that little bit of squeeze around the joint or around the body part gives your nervous system more information and it makes your body part feel more secure. You know, they call it proprioception. So it's it just it's providing more feedback to your brain and it's cut helps to calm it down and make it view the joint as being under less of a threat to the activity. You know, and in the case of your brace, you know, it provided me just enough support to make me feel like okay, I'm not gonna get put in those extreme positions. but also ninety percent of it was just gave me the confidence to go back, you know, and because my I just felt less threatened by the possibility of injuring the leg. Keith: Yeah, that's interesting. we've talked a little bit about in the past the mind-body connection for lack of a better term, and the fact that it's not always just physical, it's mental. Lou Fratto: even the kinesio tape which I'm tape which I know you guys sell as well, it's kinda like I used to explain it, you know, it's like you're leaving the clinic with my hands still on you and helping you, you know. Keith: And how do your custom or your clients respond to that, Lou? Yeah, you gotta be careful with that one. Sign a waiver. Lou Fratto: Hopefully they're okay with it. Depends where we put the tape. I don't say it for everybody. Keith: that's really cool. What what about Brandon Fields: That's a new that's a new product line for us as well. Like I mentioned earlier, there's so many different routes that we can expand. So our social media manager, Joce she's huge into the the kinesiology tape, and she's been asking us for like years now. I want K you know, KT tape that is leopard print. And you know, we do a lot Lou Fratto: Yeah. Brandon Fields: of like skate stickers and and fun stuff here at Old Bones Therapy. And so I'm like, all right, well, we're gonna create it, we're gonna call it OG tape. Because old bones, OG. And we're gonna just have fun with it and make like graphics on it and leopard prints. And so yeah, we that's a new one for us is about from I think we started selling that one about three or four months ago. So it's been it's been fun. Lou Fratto: Yeah, we were joking about the brace had to look cool. But you know, that is a big big factor because if you look at a lot of the medical stuff, it's I mean, it makes you feel old wearing it. I mean, it's like, you know, the white compression socks and you Brandon Fields: Yeah. Lou Fratto: know, just Keith: yeah. Lou Fratto: and guys are you guys make it fun, you know. Brandon Fields: So that's the thing, right? imagine Imagine you're a fifty year old skateboarder and maybe, your doctor says, Hey, you could probably really benefit from some compression socks. go down to CVS or Walgreens and buy some medical gray, beige, whatever compression socks. Keith: Mm-hmm. Brandon Fields: Or you could go to Old Bones and like, you know, we make we make compression socks with skulls or blood drips or flamers or lightning bolts on it. Like we just try to have fun with it, you know? And and I I don't know. So that That's that's kinda where we're at. Like we we don't wanna just be boring medical kind of products. We wanna solve a pain point and do it in a stylish way, I guess. Yeah. Lou Fratto: That's that's awesome. And so Keith, you're gonna have to show that picture of you in CrossFit wearing your, you know, antiquated inner tubes around your knees because Brandon, we gotta fix him up, man. He just it's you look at those things around his knees and you're just like, What the heck? you know, how'm my Keith: Come on, man. Those I I'm also very cheap, so I've probably had those things for ten years. Brandon Fields: All Keith: But and Brandon Fields: right, all right. Right after this after this podcast I'm gonna I'm gonna ship Keith a a set of compression knee sleeves so you can check out. Hey Keith: What? Hey man, they'll Lou Fratto: Mm. Keith: probably take off in the in the CrossFit gym for sure. But Brandon Fields: Our finance Lou Fratto: Hey Brandon Fields: guy does it, does some CrossFit and he he swapped his old thick neoprene ones with the the knitted ones that we make and he says he likes them a lot. So give it a try. Give it Keith: Right on. Yeah. Brandon Fields: a try. Keith: I would love it. I will definitely give it a try. I got the hat already behind me, so I'll start I'll start gearing up, passing out stickers. Lou Fratto: Okay. Brandon Fields: Love it. Keith: Yeah. The one thing I wanted to ask about, and I I can't remember if I saw this on your website or not, but is there a difference between saying your gear is protective versus recovery? Or is it kind of all part of the same story? I'm just curious how you address that when you think about the stuff that you're that you're building and that you're selling. Brandon Fields: That's a good question because especially with like the extreme sports, a lot of guys do wear protective equipment. So like I to think of it as w we're we're more recovery. and and preventative kind of as opposed to pro protective because like even when I skateboard like I'll wear you know my favorite skate knee pads 187 Killer Pads I wear those on top of my compression sleeves and so Keith: Okay. Brandon Fields: like not not only does my knee feel more secure but like there's like secondary benefits and I said I I usually make our our products so that there's some sort of secondary benefit and it might Be for skateboarding, it might be for BMX guys, but the knitted material as opposed to the the old neoprene, it actually grips your skate pads and holds them a little more securely and keeps them from slipping off of your leg like they used to do. we make a a compression ankle sleeve where we added custom silicon strips on the sides because skateboarders a lot of times the skateboard, if it gets loose from you, it'll Hit you really hard in the ankle on that on that Keith: Hmm. Brandon Fields: hard part of your bone. Like we call it shark bite when your skateboard hits you, but it hurts. And I'm like, let's just add little protective strips on our ankle compression sleeve, and now it has this added benefit, you know. same thing we hit we do a compression shin sleeve. So it's like your it covers your whole lower leg. But in Keith: Yeah. Brandon Fields: the front, BMX guys were complaining, you know, their pedals kept striking him in the shin. So like, well, we're like, well, we're gonna build in a little, you know, protective padding in the front to help with that. So just like little tweaks to common products out there. like I said, I'm not a product design genius or anything, but I I I try to solve pain points for myself, for other people. And so that's where we make a little minor little tweaks. yeah. Lou Fratto: Man, where go, sorry. Keith: It seems like like go ahead, Luz. Lou Fratto: I was gonna say, where were you when I was fifteen racing BMX bikes? I mean the pedal if you landed and your foot slipped off would spinner and boom, right into Brandon Fields: Yeah. Lou Fratto: the shin. man, did that that was a that hurt. That was bad. And then soccer too. I played soccer and you didn't want to wear the shin pads 'cause they weren't cool. I mean they didn't look cool. But I man, if you guys designed a shin pad for soccer and made it look cool, I bet the kids wouldn't be so resistant to wear Brandon Fields: Yeah, and the compression easily, right? A lot of younger people don't want to wear the protective gear, but they they Lou Fratto: Yeah. Brandon Fields: don't have any problem throwing a compression knee sleeve on underneath their pants and it's slim enough you can't even tell you're wearing it. And because we do add the little silicon gel ring around that kind of goes around your kneecap, if you do fall, it does add a little bit of protection. It's just that I don't I d I just I don't like to kind of make our brand come across like we're making protective gear. 'Cause we're not really in the in the in like I'm not in this to make helmets or, you know, knee pads or things Lou Fratto: Yeah. Brandon Fields: like that. I'm I'm trying to I'm trying to stay in my lane and help people, you know, with the with their pain points and a little bit more on the therapeutic recovery medical side of things. So Keith: makes a lot of sense. It seems like, you keep saying you're not a genius product designer, but it does seem like you are very attuned to getting out in the field and creating that feedback loop from the people like, you know, and yourself, but also people that you surround yourself with to get really good direct feedback and take that back and put it into the design of, you know, either updating current products or thinking about new product ideas. Brandon Fields: I think I think a lot of that comes from my background in software engineering, to be honest. It's like I I feel like a product is never really finished. You're con constantly iterating to improve things. And and we've done the same thing with with our products. You know, version one point might turn into version two point zero later because there's things that we can improve. And I'll give you a perfect example of that, like the hinged compression knee knee sleeve brace that Lou was just showing you. we used to have straps on it. And it kind of drove me nuts that we have this compression knee sleeve that theoretically, if you size it right, it's a compression sleeve. It doesn't slip. Why do we need straps on this thing? And, you know, and it just it was just one of those things. And we ended up iterating and getting rid of the straps and I For me that was a good choice. I think there's one percent of our customers that are like, Bring back the straps. And I'm just like, No Lou Fratto: Yeah. Brandon Fields: But I don't know. Anyway. Lou Fratto: There's a whole black market for those strapped braces, right? Brandon Fields: Right, right, exactly. If you got Keith: Yeah. Brandon Fields: one of the the old blue version one point with the straps, yeah. Hang that up, it's going and Keith: Well, maybe you could bring it back. That's a good marketing tactic, You bring it back as a limited edition and then you sign Lou Fratto: There you go. Keith: each one and you've got a collector's item there for people. So Brandon Fields: Yeah, yeah. And speaking of that, one of the ways that we're starting to expand is we're starting to do these collaborations with different brands. And so pretty soon here in the next month or two we're gonna release like a one of our first collabs with a pretty pretty famous skate brand. So it's about all I can say right now, but keep your eyes open. But Yeah. Lou Fratto: Yeah. Keith: Awesome. We're Lou Fratto: Really cool. Keith: gonna have to you have to have you back after the collab is out in the wild and see how see how it's doing because Lou Fratto: Right. Brandon Fields: I'd love to love to come back. Keith: yeah my kids talk about collabs all the time and music and and fashion and stuff. So I'll be interested to see how that goes. Lou Fratto: And Keith Brandon Fields: Yeah, that that t shirt that Lou's wearing is a piece of art that came Keith: yeah, showed off. Brandon Fields: from from Sam Hits. He he did the art art for us. It's like the stinky compression socks, but yeah, it's it's great. I love it. Keith: Dice. Lou Fratto: I love the message on the back of like I gotta get that 'cause I even made some bracelets here that had the saying, you know, fall seven, get up eight. You know, it's doesn't matter how many times you fall, just keep getting up one more time, you know. So I Brandon Fields: Yeah. Lou Fratto: loved it. but s hey Keith, you know, Brandon is a legit skateboarder. We were talk when we were talking on the phone the first time we spoke, Right, Brandon, you knew one of my childhood idols because I used to skate when I was younger and it was Stevie Caballero. Don't you know him personally? Brandon Fields: I do. So for a lot of years I wasn't into skateboarding and then When I when I turned for forty-ish again, I decided to get back into it. And I'm living up here in the Bay Area. There's a big skate park down in San Jose and that's where Cab Steve Caballero's from. And ended up going there many times and and just like meeting the guy, skating with him. I I do remember the first time seeing him skate and going over to skate the same bowl with him. I was a little a little kinda shell-shocked, Lou Fratto: Yeah. Brandon Fields: intimidated, like, my gosh, I get to skate with Steve Caballero, but super nice guy. it's funny the older the older you get, you don't like like kinda like when you're younger, you're like, I I don't I won't I won't go up and talk to that super famous person. And like now I'm old, I just like I see someone and I'm just like, my god, I go up, I introduce myself, and I like I think you get in your head a little too much, but you know, skating with like your idols and people that you looked up to as a kid, it's it's a pretty cool thing. So yeah. Lou Fratto: Yeah, it's really cool. Brandon Fields: Yeah. Keith: That's awesome. Do you guys do do you guys have any athletes that are representing your brand? Just curious when it comes to marketing and and positioning. Do you have do you have like folks that are on a Team Old Bones or something like that? Brandon Fields: it's I've tried to s kind of stay away from the whole team writer thing that happens, but I would be lying. Like we have a lot of athletes that we hook up with gear. I I in in the industry it's like we don't have paid athletes. It's just like we have we flow product to a lot of different people. And yeah, we've we've had a lot of really longtime supporters of of of Old Bones who love our products and you know if they send me a message I'm always happy to to hook them up. Like in the beginning When we started making the compression knee sleeves, I remember thinking to myself, man, I'm never gonna sell these things. Like they were just sitting on the rack in the warehouse or in our garage before we had a warehouse. And you know, I just would go to events. Like, I'm a skateboarder myself, like I skated a lot of vert, so I knew a lot of the the vert skaters that skate like the ramps that you see like in X games, and so like I would just give away these things, but then more and more people would see them and all. where'd you get that? And it it took about a year to get kick started, but you enough people, you get enough product out there, and it kind of snowballs from there. Lou Fratto: Was was it scary Keith: Very cool. Lou Fratto: to leave your day job and go into you know, this full time? Brandon Fields: yeah, it was. it was a little it was a little a little crazy and We we had hired a a fractional CFO or I did early on. And one of the things I just wanted to make sure that I felt comfortable leaving the day job. And I think just having the confidence of having someone look over like our finances and look at where we were at and how we were growing, it really kind of put my mind at ease and gave me the confidence to to really go for it. so yeah, it was it was scary. Lou Fratto: So it was kinda Brandon Fields: Fine. Lou Fratto: like a side hustle and then you turned it into where you could make the full leap at some point? Brandon Fields: It was a side hustle. I s I started the brand 10 years ago. So I was forty-three when I started it. And I think Lou Fratto: Mm. Brandon Fields: I think a couple things happened there. Number one, I turned 50 and I'm just like, that's it. I gotta do this. Like so when I turned 50, getting getting this the CFO type person to say, Yeah, you can do this. Like, and then having that to convince my wife, yes, you can do this. And having like a professional that looked at things and said it was okay. Keith: Yep. Brandon Fields: Cause I don't think she was gonna just let me quit my day job without, somebody really looking Lou Fratto: Right. Brandon Fields: at the books and saying, yeah. so that that's kind of funny. So yeah, it's scary, like everything in life, right? You y you take a leap, you just gotta go for it. I don't know. How else do I say that? Lou Fratto: It's like dropping in. Dropping in on that vert ramp, right? Brandon Fields: Kinda. Cal calculated calculated risks, right? So Keith: Yeah. Lou Fratto: And you can't hesitate. If you hesitate, you're done. You gotta go all in. Brandon Fields: Yep, yep. You do, you just gotta go for it. Keith: You mind if I ask you a founder question? If Brandon Fields: by all means. Keith: if and maybe you've you don't have to comment on this if you don't want to, but let's say a larger brand came in and said we want to make Old Bones part of the family, is that something that you have either been approached by or that you are thinking about long term? Brandon Fields: I'm definitely thinking about it long term. Keith: Yeah. Brandon Fields: and it may or may not have happened already, but I like right now I kind of feel like w we've been growing as a brand and I'm having a lot of fun doing it. so I think it just would have to be the right fit and the right time for me. So Keith: Yeah. Brandon Fields: you know, that's always I think a goal with a lot of people that found companies is like what's your exit plan at some point. Keith: Yeah. Brandon Fields: but right now I'm 53, you know, so I'm like a solid 10 years from want wanting to retire and like I'm having fun with it. I get to I get to go to events that like I'm stoked to be at, whether it's you know, a a Bike festival, a skateboarding event, a roller derby convention in Las Vegas. Like we just we go, we have a good time. I have a great crew of people that work here at Old Bones that they're just friends. I ch they're just like family and and we all go and we have fun. And so yeah, like I I don't know, like definitely open to it, but Keith: Yeah. Brandon Fields: right now I'm just having a good time with it. So Keith: There's a couple of brands that remind me of your story w in the fishing world. So, one of the things that I really enjoy is fishing. And there's a a brand out of Florida called Salt Strong that built a very good community. I mean, fantastic community and built on learning and apps and helping fishing. And you know, they were I think they were purchased. And the one thing that I like about it is a lot of times when that happens, you can see the core things that made the brand special and that made it work get diluted or they stray from that. And so far what I've seen with them is they've been able to keep to the mission. So I would say you guys have such a strong core ethos. Holding on to that is gonna be like critical. on any kind of success going forward because it's such a big part of what you are. Brandon Fields: Yeah, I I have a good example of that. I f I feel like it's not it every week I get an email from a a third party logistics, an outside warehouse that wants to do our do the shipping for us. And for me, I'm just like, no, I I don't want some outside company doing the shipping for us because ex software developer, I built in things into our website like on our cart. I I say, let us know what you're into. And then I give people hints like skateboarding, surfing, snowboarding, pizza as a joke. And people type in these order notes. And so I customize the packing slip that the warehouse guys see to in dotted outline, here's the customer's order note. And so Lou Fratto: Ha ha ha. Brandon Fields: we get so many people that write custom order notes in the warehouse, has fun with it. if I'm out there helping pack orders and someone writes in a note, I'll hand write, hey, thank you, or a little smiley emoji. Or just like whatever, because we get some crazy notes sometimes. We have a Slack channel called Order Keith: Ha ha ha. Brandon Fields: Notes where the guys will take photos of them sometimes. And we do we'll do social media posts too every once in a while, kind of showing some of the funnier ones. But we do custom stickers, you know, like we got a Keith: Yeah. Brandon Fields: we got a mini ramp in the back of the warehouse. Like we have fun with it, and I just I don't want to lose sight of Just having fun while working and just yeah, and the customers like Custom stickers. We had enough people write that they were into lifting or CrossFit that we finally turned our little old bones skeleton guy into a sticker that's like lifting weights, you know? We had enough guys saying that they were into jiu-jitsu Keith: Yeah. Brandon Fields: on their order notes. So now we made the same skeleton guy wearing like a gi with like an old bones brand you know, patch on it. And just like we have fun with it. So Lou Fratto: That that freaked me out in a good way. I got the order and I saw the two stickers where one was jiu-jitsu and one was a guy lifting. And I went, How the heck did they know that I'm do jiu-jitsu? And th and then I w I think we were talking, and you go, Yeah, you put that down on the thing and I go, yeah, maybe I did It's like that was so cool. Brandon Fields: That's exactly what we do. In the warehouse, I Lou Fratto: Yeah. Brandon Fields: have on the packing table, there's a row of stickers. And it's gone from like Lou Fratto: Awesome. Brandon Fields: two or three different branded stickers. Like one might be the bones guy on a skateboard, one might be the bones guy on a bike. To now there's like the weightlifty one, there's the jiu-jitsu one, there's like there's just so many. Like it we put the pizza as a joke on the like the edit feel is just like, you know, just let us know what you're into. And so many people say they're into pizza. Pizza we made a pizza sticker, old bones pizza sticker. Lou Fratto: Keith, did you get that one? Keith: I don't know which ones I got. I got here in my drawer. Lou Fratto: Ha ha Keith: I should pull them out. No, I don't think I I don't know. Brandon Fields: I'll I'll have to grab a whole one of each and send to you guys 'cause it it's Lou Fratto: Well, you know what I would love is someday if you guys would design a jiu-jitsu gi, I think it would be really cool. just Brandon Fields: Old Bones jiu-jitsu Lou Fratto: to th just to throw that out there. Yeah. Now yeah, I'll I'll help you design it. No, I think that would Keith: Just for Lou. It's gotta say Lou on the back too. So put that in there. I forgot one thing to announce at the beginning of the show. Lou, who is now a freshly minted black belt in jiu-jitsu. Lou Fratto: Yes. Keith: So congratulations, Lou. Brandon Fields: Congratulations. Keith: Yeah. Lou Fratto: I just just got it last night. sixteen years. Sixteen years of journey. So speaking of that, Brandon, you had told me along the way you have a friend that's trying to get you to try jiu-jitsu. Have you dipped your toes in the water yet or? Brandon Fields: my gosh. yes, I did dip my toes. I did two I did two jiu-jitsu classes. And let me tell you, it's very humbling. Lou Fratto: Yeah. Brandon Fields: to to s to say the least. yeah. it's it's no joke for sure. And Lou Fratto: Yeah. Brandon Fields: so so I did and but then To be to be honest, I found that I had shortly after taking that class, I I have like a arrhythmia thing that happens in my heart and I've actually got it fixed. Like I went to the cardiologist, he's like, yeah, you have AFib. It's pretty common. it's as you get older. I've I've known I've had it since my thirties, but I've just kind of like dealt with it. But things were kind of I would go for a mountain bike ride, I would go to jiu-jitsu and I'm just like, why am I so tired? Like my heart rate would get high and it wouldn't Come back down. So it's like I'm running a marathon. So but Lou Fratto: Yeah. Brandon Fields: anyway, I got that fixed a couple months ago. And I just I've been a little busy lately and haven't got back to the jiu-jitsu gym. But yeah, my friend did convince me to go. I went a couple times, got completely humbled, and but super cool. I do want to go back and try it again. Lou Fratto: Hey, kudos to you for even going in the door because that's the hardest part. There's stories of people driving past the local jiu-jitsu academy ten, fifteen times and they just can't, you know, talk themselves into turning in and parking and going in and they that's why they say the white belt is probably the hardest belt to get because Everybody is freaked out by it and they're they're not they're just nobody wants to go in and get their, arm ripped off or whatever. So it's the fact that you tried it is that's ninety percent of the battle. So kudos to Brandon Fields: And two Lou Fratto: you. Brandon Fields: To your point earlier, everybody was super nice. Nobody's trying to rip your arm off or kill you in there. everybody's Lou Fratto: Alright. Brandon Fields: very aware. And even to the point, you know, they're like, look, this is this is a a new guy at the gym. Like, you know, they'll probably hook you up with actually one of the black belts or something, because they're the ones that are most controlled and can really kind of help show you the ropes and everything. So yeah. And I don't know. I'll probably go back. It's just I had a couple health things come up and I had to get them fixed. And yeah, I'm back on the back on the horse now. Lou Fratto: Glad you got it fixed and no pressure. just yeah, but keep me posted if you if you go back. That's awesome. Brandon Fields: Yeah, yeah, we'll do. Keith: That fear of coming to the door is is real and CrossFit as well. It's one of the things that I think, the reputation of the brand was pretty hardcore for a while. And I think, you know, what we found with Terminus is our position and positioning for new clients especially has had to change because we're not about once you get in the door, you see that the community isn't a bunch of hardcore maniacs, you know, trying to outdo everybody. It's really it's really changed over time. So Well, cool, gentlemen. Well, we are we've gone about forty five minutes, so maybe we should start to think about wrapping her up here. but Brandon, I guess first we'd love to give you a chance to to talk about Anything that you've got upcoming that you want to talk about and promote, of course where people can find you. We will put links to all your stuff in the show notes as well. But yeah, tell us kind of a little bit about where Brandon and where Old Bones is going to go from here and what we can expect in the future. Brandon Fields: Yeah. old bones therapy, we're gonna continue to grow. W we have some some some new products in the works that are you know, like I mentioned, one two months out from from releasing. like I said, our our brand is therapeutic, like I could go so many directions. Like I I have a supplier who's been sending me like massage guns recently and I'm like, wow, that could be kind of a cool product to add to the therapeutic line, right? Or, you know, ice and heat therapy. or band-aids, first aid kits, like things things that like there's just so many directions that we could go, right? so yeah, we're just gonna keep growing. You guys, you can find us, oldbonestherapy.com or oldbones.com yeah, just gonna keep trying to have fun and doing what I do and Just getting the word out about Old Bones and trying to help people stay stay active and keep keep ruling at life. So that's that's what we're Keith: Awesome. Brandon Fields: here for. Lou Fratto: Awesome. Keith: Lou, did you have a closing question that you wanted to ask or comments or anything? Lou Fratto: Alright, yes, I do have one question for you, Brandon. You ready? Brandon Fields: hit me. Lou Fratto: Finish this question, fill it in. You know you're old when Brandon Fields: just getting up off the ground requires really loud groaning and moaning Lou Fratto: Sorry. Brandon Fields: and why does everything the older you get, you're you're s you moan and you're just you catch yourself doing it and you're like, God, I'm old now. Keith: That is a perfect answer. Lou Fratto: Well you answered that literally and that you could have got you kinda gone f figuratively too with that, but that's that's the literal answer because you you f when you guys fall on those ramps, man, it just looks like it's gonna hurt, but somehow you guys get up. I don't know. Brandon Fields: Alright, well I'm gonna I'm gonna turn it around and give you guys a question. So Yeah, so Lou Fratto: Wait, that's not how it works. Keith: Let's do it. Brandon Fields: so for me, I feel like I know that I need to do more stretching and strength training throughout my Monday through Friday work week. to make sure that my body is maintained so that when I do go do the fun stuff that I like to do, mountain biking, skateboarding, whatever, that I'm not just like ruined for the next five days after I do the thing that I love to do. Whatever your thing is. I mean we've all know that, right? But why is it so hard to put the work in to do the strength training and then the stretching? And it's just like I don't know. What are tips to help with that? Keith: Lou, you wanna go first? Lou Fratto: okay well you said it because you like doing the fun stuff and so I was Brandon Fields: Right. Lou Fratto: I was just talking to somebody today who came in and he wanted to know kind of my overall philosophy. And I said, Look, I was put on this planet to keep people or I should say to return people qu as quickly as possible to their favorite activities and then to give them the tools and and then to provide the treatment to bulletproof their body so they can stay in their activity and then maybe even perform better than Than before they even met me. And so I would say that, yeah, you have to somehow convince yourself that doing the maintenance work, the bulletproof stuff, is worth it because you can it's gonna make you stay in your hobby that much better. Just like your your braces and your products help as well, that's a whole nother side of it that that could really complement what you're already doing with your with your braces and your products because it's you want to bulletproof your body with your own your own physiology and your own body parts too, you know. Keith: Yeah, I think that's a really good point. A couple things that I mean for me that I've talked about a little bit in the past is what helped me was having a training buddy. You know, and you mentioned your friend who brought you to the jiu-jitsu gym. That's what got me into the CrossFit for the first time. And it was critical for me to kind of establish a habit. Because I had a friend that we went every morning at five thirty AM for several years. And that really built a habit. But I also like finding a place where you feel at home and comfortable. And there's maybe a community element like you get from the skate park or Lou, you get from your jiu-jitsu dojo, I get the same thing from CrossFit. Like being around those people is probably the most social part of my day. And it gives me energy and gives me a reason to come back. So if you can find a way to work it in just from a time perspective, you know, that's the other thing. It's really hard to look at your schedule and say, man, to get to the gym or to get to whatever I'm gonna do and then do the work. And then get home, that's a good two-hour chunk out of the day. And when you're busy and you're, you know, running a business or multiple businesses like you, that's a significant commitment. But like Lou said, is is having that future thinking or forward thinking vision of man, I want to be on the skateboard ramp or I wanna be able to fish or I wanna be able to do the things that I like to do until I you know, until I literally can't get up anymore. I Brandon Fields: Mm-hmm. Keith: mean, that's just a a challenge you gotta kinda deal with and figure out. Like it's an investment, right? And just Brandon Fields: Yep. Keith: like anything, it's gonna compound over time. So Lou Fratto: we talk about too in in our like I I talked about it in the book and then all throughout the first part of the podcast when we were talking about longevity and everything and it's it's just small levers that you pull on a consistent basis, you know? Brandon Fields: Yeah. Lou Fratto: consistency is more important than than intensity or anything else. So it's once you get in kind of a little bit of a groove just keeping it up and it's not as intrusive as you might think. Brandon Fields: Yeah, there's so much I think a lot a lot of times too, I think about there's the physical maintenance and then there's also the nutrition of aspect of things too. And it's like, well, how many things do you throw in all at once, right? So it's like Lou Fratto: Yeah. Brandon Fields: pick pick one thing and make it like a habit, right? try not to overwhelm yourself a little bit, but like I said, it's Keith: Yeah. Brandon Fields: it's just it's it's hard. You have to you have to make the commitment. So Keith: Yeah. Brandon Fields: But having the community behind it I think is huge because Keith: Yeah. Brandon Fields: yeah. That's what gets you out there. That's what it's like family, right? Community, family. It's you gotta make time for it. So Keith: Indeed. And we just did a great episode with a nutritionist last our last previous episode was somebody that really came in to know her stuff. So if you want to get some tips on nutrition, go back and listen to episode twelve. Lou Fratto: Ha ha. Brandon Fields: Perfect. Keith: Cool, man. All right. Well, listen, again, we really, really appreciate the time you're taking the time out of your schedule to talk with us. This has been a great conversation and truly we'd love to have you back on in the future as things have evolved and keep pace with what's going on with old bones. And you know, just kind of keep in touch because this has been really good. Brandon Fields: Absolutely. Thank you guys so much for having me on today. It's been it's Keith: Yeah. Lou Fratto: Thank you. Brandon Fields: been a pleasure. Keith: Lou should we try to do the sign off ourselves? I didn't give it to Brandon ahead of time. Usually Lou Fratto: Ha ha. Keith: we make our guests do it because Lou and I are so bad at it. But Lou Fratto: Alright, let's try. Keith: Okay. Until next time. Lou Fratto: Keep challenging yourself. Keith: Keep growing. Brandon Fields: And keep ruling! Lou Fratto: And keep ruling! Nah, we'll leave it at that. Cut. Keith: And keep ruling and thriving A/F. Thank you. Thank you, Brandon. Brandon Fields: Yeah. Keith: Thank you, Lou. Brandon Fields: Yeah. Keith: We will see you guys next time. All Lou Fratto: Thanks guys. Keith: right.