Latest / Cage Match: A Roundabout Way of Meeting Nicolas Cage / Industrial Symphony No. 1

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Industrial Symphony No. 1 · Cage Match: A Roundabout Way of Meeting Nicolas Cage

0:01
Oh, God. Nick is in Chicago right now. So he
0:24
showed up in a full gigantic head furry bear
0:29
suit. And I assume slept in it all night and
0:33
probably fucked. I don't know. I've been sitting
0:36
in it for over an hour now. So it's got a good
0:39
stew going. Yeah, it's pretty warm. Yeah, Sean,
0:42
similar when when I logged in, you know, Nick
0:45
didn't have his camera on. So then I went upstairs,
0:47
grabbed a beer. And when I came back, it was
0:48
just this giant bear sitting on a couch. And
0:51
I was like, oh, Nick bought a giant teddy bear
0:54
for some reason. And I was like, oh, wait, fuck,
0:56
that's Nick. Elastic Nick. Bear heads going back
1:00
on. Amazing. Now I can't see shit again. Well,
1:03
good. And we also can't hear you very well. Put
1:06
the microphone inside the head. It does also
1:12
look like you're trying to choke yourself now
1:14
or something. Oh, hell yeah. I love that. Okay.
1:18
Yeah, that thing's gone. Get out of here. There's
1:21
also slippers, like little slipper feets for
1:23
it. Why are you in Chicago? Nick, why are you
1:26
in Chicago? Because Mike Ditka died. He had to
1:29
make a pilgrimage. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I came out
1:31
here just for Ditka. Even though I... Gotta honor
1:35
Ditka. It's weird how I had this all planned
1:38
well in advance of his death. Where were you
1:42
when he died? Like a block away from Wrigley.
1:46
The timing is conspicuous. Typically. So, Bill,
1:49
this is a good introduction to who we are. Yeah,
1:53
I take my fake stomach off. Hold on. We're professionals.
1:56
I know you haven't listened to the podcast, but
1:58
like you are a part of this because you are a
2:00
theme music creator. But yeah, you can you can
2:04
do what you want to do here. You can say what
2:06
you want to say if you just want to get it off
2:07
your chest. Are you ashamed as to how we put
2:10
your work to use now? Oh, it's lovely. It's lovely.
2:14
You now have so many IMDb credits because of
2:17
us because I credit you on every single episode.
2:21
100 episodes of a podcast that you shouldn't
2:23
listen to. Boss keeps telling like people we
2:29
meet in meetings that I do this and I'm like,
2:31
you need to stop. Yeah, no, we need the numbers.
2:34
Our ad revenue is going up. Podcast is a lucrative
2:39
business really doesn't work unless you are like
2:42
famous or you really fucking hit the lottery
2:45
on it. I mean, this is a labor of love, as we
2:48
well know. We have been name dropped in another
2:51
podcast. That's true. That means we made it.
2:56
Yeah, it's true. I was at another podcast thing
3:00
yesterday. One of the reasons we were out here
3:03
was this horror movie podcast that Josie listens
3:06
to was doing a fan meet and greet thing. So we
3:09
were there and they had little name tags and
3:12
it's like, oh, put your name and favorite horror
3:15
movie on there. And then put your keys in this
3:17
bowl and put on this bear suit. Oh, fuck yeah.
3:20
Oh, see, you understand how I got into this situation.
3:23
I got it. Now I live in this campground, so.
3:27
Is this a scat thing? Is this a shit thing? Ew,
3:30
gross. Yeah. Where do bears poop, Peter? I believe
3:34
in the woods. You know, like the one episode
3:36
I remember listening to a little bit of recently
3:38
also involved someone talking about poop. I love
3:41
it. I'm just noticing a theme here. I mean, I
3:44
am the father of a five year old and a two year
3:47
old. And poop is a very common topic. So also
3:52
poop is funny. It is pretty good. Did you know
3:55
that rabbits eat their own shit because they
3:56
don't get enough nutrients the first time around?
3:58
Oh, boy. Here we go. Let's go there. Did you
4:02
know that a rabbit is closer related to a deer
4:04
than it is to like a rat? i didn't know that
4:08
yeah that also connects to the the movie we watched
4:10
exactly yeah which is why we're here yeah that's
4:14
why we're here that's a platypus that's jackal
4:16
yeah sean you missed the easiest in uh so welcome
4:21
back to cage match roundabout way of meeting
4:23
nicholas cage i'm your host sean and i have to
4:26
pee because i've been in a bear costume for way
4:29
too long are you actually yep i'm gonna step
4:34
away This is going about how I expected. No,
4:37
I mean, OK, we are talking about a very weird
4:40
art piece, and this is in its own way a weird
4:43
art piece. Yep. This one maybe has less intentionality
4:46
behind the art. I don't know. Apparently they
4:49
threw that one together in like two weeks. Really?
4:51
Yeah, I believe that. Yeah, I was reading about
4:54
it last night a little bit. How would you engineer
4:57
how many like flipping and turning naked ladies
5:00
in just two weeks? I don't know if you have money,
5:03
I guess. Yeah, that's it. It just, it happens.
5:06
Fucking, you know, money brings women, is so
5:08
I'm told. I don't have either, so. And skinless
5:11
deer. And skinless deer. God, that thing, kind
5:14
of horrifying. Yeah. Beach man. Yeah, we'll get
5:18
there. We'll get there. So, we are joined this
5:21
week with Bill Panks, our musical intro creator,
5:24
actually, and friend of mine, and musician in
5:27
Seattle. Hello. Nice to have you on, actually.
5:30
And our producer, Peter. Me, hi. We got there.
5:36
I'm Sean. He's Peter. Yeah. For those of you
5:40
who are tuning in for your first episode of Cage
5:41
Match, a roundabout way of meeting Nicolas Cage,
5:43
you chose poorly. This is a bizarro one in the
5:47
outskirts of his entire oeuvre. You know, it's
5:51
like it is barely featuring him at all. It's
5:55
only interesting because it ties into his work
5:59
in Wild at Heart. Talking about David Lynch being
6:01
a weirdo. Hell yeah. I appreciate it. I like
6:05
to think that this confirms that Wild at Heart
6:10
and Twin Peaks, same like shared universe. I
6:15
can see that working. Yeah. Bill, do you have
6:18
a Lynch relationship? I saw Dune many years ago.
6:22
And that's about it. His most mainstream, but
6:26
still fucking weird. Yeah. Okay. Show me on the
6:29
doll where Dune touched it. It touched me on
6:32
the sting. It's weird because fucking Common
6:35
Glockland in that movie is young. Like he's early
6:38
20s, but he looks like he's 40. I think people
6:42
just looked older back then. This is true. I
6:44
mean, as you like to say, you know, people used
6:46
to smoke indoors. But I look at like Timothy's
6:50
shallow Lama Ding Dong, who's not the age difference
6:52
isn't much. Just, you know, he looks like a child.
6:57
Timothy Chalamet does have like a child's features.
7:00
I mean, he just kind of looks like a young. Man,
7:04
always. He kind of looks like a crypto bro, which
7:06
is weird because that's what he became. He's
7:09
going to be like 50 and that's when everything
7:10
will just fail like most white people. Everything
7:14
will sag. You become a Johnny Depp where you
7:16
just look like an old bag lady all of a sudden.
7:18
It's like, wow, you used to be like the handsome
7:20
one. Yeah. If they had crypto on Dune, would
7:25
it just be called sand dollars? I have nothing
7:29
but bad jokes. I'm exhausted and hungover and
7:34
the Raiders suck. Yeah, I got you. Okay. So,
7:37
so Bill, one of the, the like beautiful things
7:41
about being a guest on this podcast is you get
7:43
the honor of describing the movie that we watched.
7:46
Oh shit. So what we watched was David Lynch's
7:49
recorded play industrial symphony. Number one,
7:52
the dream of the broken hearted. So hit us with
7:58
the plot. Thank you for that. Thank you for that.
8:03
All right. This movie starts off with Laura Dern
8:09
and Nick Cage, maybe reprising their roles or
8:14
an alternate universe ending of Wild at Heart.
8:18
So the timeline wise, he's working on Wild at
8:22
Heart and Twin Peaks right now when they produce
8:24
this. So he had been working with Cage and Dern,
8:27
but they hadn't actually started shooting anything.
8:29
OK, OK. Apparently, he changed the ending to
8:32
this. Wild at Heart's based on a novel, right?
8:34
And he changed the ending so that it was a happy
8:37
ending. And then this intro to the Industrial
8:40
Symphony is more in line with the original ending
8:44
where they separate or they break up, right?
8:47
Yeah, it's a series of pulp novels. Wild at Heart
8:50
ends with him getting beat up after saying a
8:53
slur and then singing Elvis. On top of a car.
8:58
I haven't seen the movie, but I read about it
9:00
this morning because I was like, I don't understand
9:02
the context for what I just watched. Anyway,
9:05
so these two characters are on a phone call with
9:09
each other. And I think they're credited as the
9:13
heartbroken woman and heartbreaker. And heartbreaker
9:16
breaks her heart by ending things with her. And
9:20
then it's a slow fade out. And then we enter
9:22
into like 45 minutes of. Like that whole you
9:26
see Nick Cage for maybe a total of 45 seconds
9:30
screen time. Most of it's actually on Laura Dern
9:32
because she's the one who's like devastated.
9:35
Right. And everything that comes from the follows
9:38
is is like her kind of fever dream internal experience
9:42
of like being that her devastation being broken
9:46
up with. And then we see David Lynch's way of
9:49
exploring what that might look like. Yeah, so
9:54
that's basically the entire plot line. That's
9:55
well summed up. Then things happen and they're
9:59
horrifying or disturbing. I just first thought
10:02
about this like I would really like to watch
10:04
this from a single camera. Yeah, I was thinking
10:08
about like being in this in the actual audience
10:10
would have been a fucking experience. Well, I
10:13
don't think this ever performed for an audience.
10:16
I think it was just built on stage and shot.
10:19
It's just a movie. No, there were there were
10:21
audience feedback. recorded people walked out
10:24
and were like david lynch i hope he never shows
10:25
his face again oh okay well terrific yeah yeah
10:29
i think there were two performances i don't know
10:31
how they did some of those cuts then because
10:32
there's some times where it's like oh like bright
10:35
light everybody's just gone it's like oh that
10:37
was just you can i i watch those carefully and
10:40
actually like you can see that they're they're
10:42
they're not using onstage effects for those those
10:45
cuts they're like they white out the screen post
10:47
-production yeah yeah but like there was i think
10:52
it was just two performances they were given
10:53
over the course of this one day or something
10:55
and they like filmed it and then they patched
10:57
the video together yeah they made this masterpiece
11:00
yeah i just like i mean there it was definitely
11:04
an interesting watch i just had such a hard time
11:06
kind of just how frenetic the camera work is
11:08
i could not follow any action on stage at any
11:12
given time i don't know that there was a lot
11:14
of like through line action to follow though
11:18
it's mostly like there's things happening there's
11:20
a lot of flashing lights and i don't know that
11:22
you're missing much i mean i hear you i actually
11:24
think it would have been nice to be in like watch
11:27
it as a theater production and not just like
11:29
you know because there's a lot that you're also
11:31
kind of missing sometimes just in terms of seeing
11:34
the full set yeah but i don't also know that
11:38
there was a lot of like plot or deliberate kind
11:41
of i mean like i think there's just symbolism
11:43
and like little glimpses of it no i'm not even
11:45
talking about plot i just kind of want to see
11:47
how it all worked how it all moved around yeah
11:49
how they explored the space yeah so i mean the
11:52
set is like industrial we'll say that you know
11:56
it's like girders and electric towers and lines
12:00
yeah and then there's some broken down car yeah
12:03
broken down car and i think that's kind of it
12:05
i mean there's the log but we'll talk about that
12:06
later i would describe the set as um What they
12:10
did with all of Tim Burton's Batman stuff like
12:13
in a like thrown in a closet somewhere. That's
12:16
pretty good. I think the best part of this entire
12:18
thing is Julie Cruz, who is playing sort of the
12:21
like dream version of this broken hearted woman.
12:25
Right. She's singing and she's like a lynch muse
12:28
or something like that. I thought she did pretty
12:31
well. I mean, the songs are weird. I didn't know
12:36
this. He wrote all the lyrics to the songs. She's
12:40
the performer, but the music was all him. Which
12:46
gave it all the whole Twin Peaks just feel because
12:51
he did the Twin Peaks music. Julie Cruz did the
12:55
nightclub singing in Twin Peaks. Right. It's
13:00
a lot of that like... Yeah. kind of vibe so it's
13:06
a music piece yeah one way of thinking about
13:10
it i think it's just kind of like a long music
13:12
video yeah to these songs that he wrote when
13:15
we first interviewed you for the zine that we
13:17
created um for one of our movie showings bill
13:19
did you actually watch this or did you speed
13:21
run like just bits and pieces i a little bit
13:25
of both i mean i actually like had it playing
13:27
but i was kind of like working on responding
13:30
to your questions at the same time so i was kind
13:32
of like and the thing is like if you i watched
13:35
it again last night to like refresh my memory
13:38
and there's lots of sequences that feel kind
13:41
of like nothing's really happening she's just
13:43
floating there on the screen and like there's
13:45
a lot or it's a lot of kind of same sort of stuff
13:47
um so i don't know how much i missed i feel like
13:50
i got a lot of the main like main things that
13:53
do happen but a lot of it is like if you think
13:57
of it as like the texture of the whole experience
14:00
it's fairly monotonous with like specific events
14:04
that happen that are kind of like novel or interesting
14:07
inside of that context so let's hit those novel
14:10
and interesting bits what was your favorite weird
14:12
shit from this favorite oh man i mean if we just
14:16
step back i like to think that i'm glad that
14:18
people make things like this i don't necessarily
14:21
like watching them yeah that's well put yeah
14:25
so i don't know i maybe maybe my favorite part
14:28
was the duet with the to the twins, the clarinet
14:31
and the rehashing of the dialogue from the very
14:36
beginning because there's a scene in the middle
14:38
or so where the clarinet player comes out on
14:41
stage and is playing this kind of doleful piece
14:44
while the character, the woodsman, I think is
14:50
what his title name is, or twin A, is re -performing.
14:57
the dialogue between Laura Dern and Nick Cage
14:59
that happened at the very beginning. I got to
15:01
say, Sean, I really liked the Woodsman's golden
15:04
shoes. I was thinking that that was a vibe that
15:06
you could have rocked. Oh, I fucking love that.
15:08
Like they're little platforms too. And like my
15:10
immediate thought was like, that little person
15:13
stole Bootsy Collar shoes. Yeah, it's Michael
15:17
J. Anderson who Lynch has partnered with like
15:19
a whole bunch of different times. he's like specifically
15:23
in Twin Peaks. He's the like backwards talking
15:25
guy in this weird negative void room. I don't
15:30
remember what the other red room, right? But
15:34
yeah, I thought he was a fun character for this.
15:36
I mean, I did like I like Twin B was just this
15:39
clarinet. I think it's the son of the music director.
15:44
I don't remember. Certainly family because his
15:46
name was Andre. But yeah, he's still alive. Yeah,
15:51
I know. Isn't that crazy? Do you expect that
15:53
his lifespan would be short, too? Usually that
15:56
is the case. Yes. I mean, that is actually usually
16:00
the case, but he he mostly has it's like a bone
16:02
disease. It's not like dwarfism or something.
16:06
But his last acting credit was a voice on Scooby
16:11
Doo Mystery Incorporated. He was the dancing
16:13
man. I'm sure they were playing up David Lynch
16:18
for that. Oh, of course. In Scooby -Doo for all
16:21
the kids. I'll have to ask Rico if he's seen
16:23
that one yet. Mr. Incorporated slaps. That's
16:27
like that's kind of a retelling of them like
16:29
in high school and like Freddy's got like a weird
16:32
trap fetish. Like he's just a dumb dummy who
16:35
like subscribes to like traps monthly and she's
16:38
really into traps like more than he is to his
16:40
girlfriend. What? Weird. I like it a lot. What's
16:46
his favorite kind of trap? Like a sling trap
16:50
or bear trap? Any trap. He's all about traps.
16:54
Box with a stick and a carrot? I know, I was
16:56
thinking like the rock that just falls on something.
16:58
Nice. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, there's different
17:01
types of traps, but whatever. I like a sand trap.
17:05
Nice. Okay, so the doleful clarinet, I think
17:09
that's a great one. The sawing the log. I really
17:13
like that. Log seems good. I don't understand
17:16
any of it. The log is labeled with, like, 113.
17:19
Like, why? I don't know. David Lynch is just
17:21
such a fucking weirdo. It makes me really happy.
17:24
There is a word for it, and I don't remember
17:26
what it is, but, like, having, like, the log,
17:28
like, having the sign be, like, part of the,
17:31
like, music at the time and, like, in the scene.
17:34
I really like that touch. Oh, like it becoming
17:38
part of the musical tapestry? Yeah. It was. They
17:41
had a mic, too, so you could see the microphone
17:43
right there. Yeah. I wish that it had gone on
17:46
some sort of rhythm that made more sense, but.
17:49
I think it was supposed to. I think it was, I
17:51
think they were kind of trying for that. But
17:53
maybe sawing a log is harder than you think.
17:55
Yeah. Oh, he's rough. I guess. Yeah, man. I had
17:59
to like cut through a fucking fig tree in my
18:01
driveway and it took so much work and it was
18:04
above me and I was on a ladder and it was just
18:06
raining shit down on me the entire time. All
18:09
right. I have power tools. The next time you
18:11
need to do that, I would. It was one of those
18:14
like so an Amazon truck had smashed through it
18:17
because they just don't give a shit. And it was
18:20
hanging down into the driveway. So I was like,
18:22
I have to just take care of this right now. So,
18:24
yeah, hands off. I really liked floating dolls.
18:30
That might have been my favorite part. Why did
18:33
they all have like weird bad wigs? I don't know.
18:36
Some of them had like dark paint on their face
18:38
too. I think it'd be weirder if the dolls had
18:40
good wigs. Like who spent all that time putting
18:43
really well put together wigs on all those dolls?
18:46
Yeah. There's like the fire pots going off. That
18:51
was an air raid. That was an air raid at the
18:53
end I think. Yeah, I mean the siren came back
18:55
for sure. Those were bombs that were supposed
18:56
to be dropping and then. I don't know. I started
18:59
thinking about like, what is the symbolism? Like
19:01
heartbreak? Yeah. Well, to me, I was like, the
19:04
obvious thing is like, this is like her unborn
19:06
children, her like dreams of a family dying away.
19:09
Oh, that's this guy. It will. And what, like
19:11
one of the songs had like, she likens herself
19:14
to a bomb in the beginning. That's the first
19:16
one, I think. That's the first song. Her love
19:19
is like a bomb or something. Or like, I fell
19:21
for you like a bomb or something. That was it.
19:23
My favorite part was the. laura dern nick cage
19:27
body doubles running around at the beginning
19:30
yeah just like the guy was just like floating
19:33
and like spinning around who they like you know
19:36
it's like that kind of looks like it's supposed
19:38
to be nick cage i think that was the idea yeah
19:42
you know that's i mean they probably didn't have
19:43
to try all that hard yeah it's just for stage
19:46
i like when the chick fell yeah that was my next
19:50
one yeah i hated that moment because there's
19:54
like this terrible screeching like cat sound
19:57
in the background that's really piercing and
19:59
loud and like it startled me and it just it's
20:03
viscerally awful yeah but it was well done it
20:07
is a blink if you and you miss it kind of moment
20:09
too it's like all of a sudden it's just like
20:11
this dummy falls out of the sky and smashes into
20:13
the trunk of a car and then they stuff it in
20:16
the car listening to the song and then like My
20:18
dog Ben was doing something. So I turned for
20:20
like three seconds to be like, stop that. And
20:22
then I heard the sound and like came back and
20:24
just thought, dud. And then 12 foot tall meat
20:28
man. Well, first they use the flashlights or
20:32
whatever, the light bulbs to, I don't know, thaw
20:36
him, heat him up, like rejuvenate him. Was that
20:40
supposed to be her after an accident? And then
20:44
she turns into a skinless deer thing. Yeah. That's
20:50
the raw moment of your grief, right? Yeah. Who
20:54
amongst us hasn't been a skinless demon deer
20:57
when we've been suffering? It definitely made
21:00
me think of the episode of The Simpsons where
21:03
Homer's watching Twin Peaks and it's just a guy
21:05
dancing with a deer by a tree that a telephone
21:09
light or a stoplight is like hanging from. And
21:13
Homer's like, this is so deep. Okay, that's actually
21:19
a funny perspective, though. It's like, is any
21:23
of this deep? Like, I've always struggled with
21:25
David Lynch's work because, like, I think he's
21:26
amazing and weird and fun, but I like him because
21:30
he's amazing and weird and fun. I never understand
21:32
any fucking thing he's trying to say. Like, I
21:34
don't know what the point of this was. I don't
21:36
know what the point of Wild at Heart was. What
21:39
is any of it all about? Art. That's the bigger
21:42
question. What is any of it all about? What is
21:46
any of it all about? I always think about my
21:49
friend Doran recounted this story to me that's
21:52
so weird to be telling a story third party. But
21:56
he went and saw a play at Above the Boards. And
22:00
he was like, it was the weirdest thing I've ever
22:02
seen in my entire life. He's like, I don't know.
22:04
I don't think anybody said a word the entire
22:06
time. He's like, at one point, like people were
22:09
on stage, butt naked, chained to a wall. But
22:11
the wall, you could like run a certain distance
22:13
before it would like hit a limit and you would
22:15
be pulled backwards. He's like, at some point,
22:18
everyone just pissed on the stage. He was like,
22:19
I don't even know. I don't know. But he's like,
22:21
but it's the thing I remember. So like, is it
22:25
art? Was that good? I don't know. But now I remember
22:29
a story that somebody else told me about a story
22:31
that they remembered. Yeah, it's sticky. Yeah.
22:33
And now maybe all of you will remember that story.
22:35
I hope not. I was at a play once when I lived
22:39
in Santa Rosa and there were like less than 20
22:41
people at this play. It was like a small, like
22:43
little, like local art thing. And it was just.
22:47
one of the worst things i'd ever seen and we
22:49
got our tickets from my mother -in -law and at
22:52
the intermission uh meredith and i were like
22:54
we're gonna leave and part of it was like you
22:57
cannot leave like it'll be noticed if someone
23:00
leaves and we're like it's gonna be worse for
23:02
everyone if we stay we have stifled laughter
23:05
to this point we cannot anymore i remember seeing
23:09
a samuel beckett play where a bunch of people
23:11
left in the middle i don't know if you all have
23:12
read samuel beckett or seen his works like waiting
23:15
for godot i think this one was uh oh happy days
23:18
or happy times and it's like super surreal absurdist
23:22
it's i thought it was great but it was also like
23:24
really really weird kind of like what we just
23:27
watched yeah where you asked to me i'm like i
23:30
don't really know what i know he at least with
23:32
samuel beckett i'm like i know he's like means
23:34
something there but i don't know yeah necessarily
23:37
what it is i'm not i don't know enough about
23:39
david lynch to know like how much of what he's
23:42
creating is meant to be like coherent or have
23:44
a specific like meaning or if it's just like
23:48
gesturing at you know emotions basically we're
23:52
trying to get like an experience like if because
23:53
yeah i could see this movie being just that especially
23:57
if he really did just kind of throw it together
23:58
in two weeks but um like take a bunch of symbols
24:01
that he already kind of has worked with um and
24:04
and you know music that he already has produced
24:07
and stuff like that and just yeah this thing
24:09
together or if he was like had a really clear
24:12
vision and was like uh i want to really represent
24:15
inner turmoil after a breakup in a really like
24:19
kind of psychotic way i don't know yeah it's
24:23
like what a powerful relationship this must have
24:25
been that you had such grief over it right it's
24:28
as if i died by falling out of the sky and hitting
24:30
a trunk of a car and turning into a demon deer
24:33
but then was fine yeah well or what i don't know
24:39
actually the end is kind of it's all grim it's
24:41
really grim like i yeah Yeah, the singing from
24:45
the trunk of the car with the people filming
24:48
and just like being presented as a head on a
24:51
TV. I like that. I think I enjoyed that song
24:57
the most. I don't even know anymore. That was
25:01
the only like upbeat, like happy, quote, happy
25:05
song. Yeah. Again, like this is why I kind of
25:08
think I'd want to see a single camera view of
25:10
it from like. the audience perspective. Cause
25:13
I just, I want to see what, what was the, what
25:17
should I have been focusing on? Like what, where
25:19
would my eye have been drawn if I could have
25:20
seen this? Well, I think the cameras provided
25:23
you what you needed to focus on. I think that
25:26
was why you did it. I think that was the intention.
25:29
I know it's, it cuts really fast. It's you know,
25:34
it's hard to keep your focus too much. I don't
25:37
know. I'm going to have a hard time, not just
25:40
saying. like bill i appreciate that this exists
25:44
i've watched it twice now which is twice more
25:47
than i think my life needed to watch it uh artistically
25:51
it's good i like like as somebody who likes david
25:56
lynch stuff i like the music i like uh the the
26:00
imagery that's presented never gonna watch it
26:04
again i was about 10 minutes into it and i was
26:07
just like uh hit pause i'm like All right, there's
26:10
only 30 minutes left. Yeah, and there's really
26:13
good technical cues and aspects of it. I like
26:16
the scenery. I like the lighting. Once we got
26:20
past the first song, I kind of got more into
26:22
a group with it. But while I was still kind of
26:24
in that early, just sitting with, what am I watching?
26:27
Do I secretly hate art? Like all good artists,
26:33
you do hate art because you hate yourself. Fucking
26:36
too right. we're going deep folks yeah that struck
26:44
close to my heart well okay so from the music
26:48
perspective bill what did you think of it like
26:50
i mean since you're you're clearly not like a
26:52
huge david lynch guy you know so like david battle
26:55
lamenti david i think so shit battle lamenti
26:59
he's got like a very specific vibe but like what
27:03
did you what did you think about it like the
27:05
clarinet obviously like stands out but what about
27:07
the rest of it i I was trying to think about
27:12
this as I was listening to the different songs
27:14
on the whole. So, I mean, there's different ways
27:18
I can talk about this. Let's go there. Yeah.
27:21
One of the things that I was thinking about was
27:23
the kind of structure of the songs themselves.
27:26
And then I'm also hearing like the kind of harmonic
27:30
and arrangement texture. So, for example, in
27:35
the first song, the first song. starts off with
27:40
like a series of like downward pitch bends that
27:42
kind of keep on recurring throughout it right
27:44
and then there's the siren going on in the background
27:47
which is like swooping up and down and overall
27:50
her singing the melody that she sings or the
27:54
phrase that she keeps repeating like the most
27:55
of the song is this a couple of different phrases
27:58
it's not one of the things overall i noticed
28:00
about the songs was they didn't feel like they
28:02
didn't have like really clear shifts at choruses
28:07
or refrains or anything like that it's like kind
28:08
of like one big texture so when i'm thinking
28:11
about like the texture of the arrangement a lot
28:12
of them felt very much like just you know you
28:15
get this backing track kind of going the chords
28:18
might change and you might have like different
28:19
sections in the music but like the backing track
28:21
kind of feels the same throughout which i think
28:23
actually played a really big role in the kind
28:26
of dreary continuity of the energy like there
28:29
aren't these big shifts in the songs generally
28:32
there's a couple moments where like things kind
28:34
of pivot but the biggest shifts happen between
28:36
the songs and in like maybe what's happening
28:39
on stage anyway like in the first one as an example
28:42
like there's these downward pitch bendings the
28:44
pitch bends with the like sirens and then her
28:47
singing is also descending and the bass line
28:50
is also descending and it's like this constant
28:52
like sense of sinking downward sinking downward
28:55
which is like reinforces actually really well
28:58
i think the the like desolation and like the
29:02
hopelessness and um i don't know it's just really
29:07
it did a good job of capturing the hopelessness
29:09
i think that that that's that they were trying
29:12
to capture in that um i don't necessarily like
29:15
listening to it that much like it's it's it's
29:18
not pleasing in a like oh i'm gonna just sit
29:21
down and chill to this but i think it's like
29:22
really effective at what it was doing and there
29:24
were a lot of different moments throughout where
29:26
i felt like that kind of thing was true for the
29:28
music like it was very effective and sean you
29:31
were talking about like some of the like practical
29:32
sounds or like the the actual like the saw being
29:36
a part of the music right yeah and there were
29:37
a lot of like sound effects that were being used
29:40
in the music and actually listen to like the
29:42
music tracks as they were presented on the recording
29:44
and a lot of that was some of it was actually
29:47
in the recording as well so a lot of like the
29:48
sounds that i was like oh is this on stage and
29:50
are they just like adding are they adding like
29:52
sound effects live or is this like part a lot
29:55
of that was originally in the sound too so i
29:57
didn't actually know that going into this about
29:58
the composer of those that david benedict whatever
30:01
i'm sorry i'm that guy um uh that he and david
30:07
lynch have been working on this this record prior
30:09
and like a lot of that was baked in so a lot
30:13
of what the sound was was just like pressing
30:14
play but i think there were some elements that
30:16
were live on stage anyway um i think they do
30:19
a good job of like creating atmosphere that matches
30:22
the like tone of the film overall so i'll leave
30:27
it at that for now no i think that's a good way
30:29
to put it i mean it's like it it fits this weirdo
30:31
fucking art piece that we watch it's like that
30:33
that descending thing that you talked about i
30:35
think is really really apt like that's a feeling
30:39
that you get when it and maybe i was feeling
30:42
just sad that i had to watch this but there's
30:46
another one like the one where she's like i can't
30:47
remember the name of the song it's like floating
30:49
Is this the weird bubble one? That one was weird.
30:52
I did not like that one. That one, I had mixed
30:54
feelings about too. Pinky's... Bubble Egg. Pinky's
30:58
Bubble Egg. No, the song I'm thinking of is I
30:59
Float Alone, and there's also Into the Night,
31:02
I think, where the vocals in those are... The
31:06
melody doesn't have the same kind of shape. The
31:10
notes float longer in time. She's elongating
31:14
notes and singing and letting her voice... float
31:17
rather than like this constant like descending
31:19
motion so i think a lot of the songs kind of
31:20
like the the way the melodies are written kind
31:23
of match some of the the lyrical content as well
31:27
now nick you say your thing in a smart way uh
31:32
oh jesus uh i don't have anything on this one
31:38
it's uh i've done a lot of work on like dance
31:45
and music pieces and things like that and I don't
31:50
know. I'm like, I'm not shy about avant -garde
31:54
stuff. And this is very Brecht, but Brechtian,
32:00
but in spots, especially like that shrill, like
32:05
screeching when the girl falls and everything.
32:08
It's, it just feels like, I don't know. It's
32:12
very student peace feeling. I don't know what
32:16
I can comment on this one. Even it's like, uh
32:20
there's imagery i enjoyed visually as somebody
32:24
who does you know that kind of visual or used
32:28
to work in that kind of visual kind of field
32:30
but uh aside from just presenting like a couple
32:34
like looks that are like oh you know i really
32:37
want to see like this kind of presented on the
32:40
stage or this this feeling looking this way but
32:43
then you have to find a way as david lynch to
32:47
move from like visual representation of like,
32:51
Oh, how, how, how does he want this heartache
32:54
to look to, how does this aspect of a breakup
32:58
need to look and kind of painting visually the
33:02
emotions with the movement and the actors and
33:06
like who is on stage, like giant deer thing.
33:10
And I don't know. So it kind of begs this question
33:13
for me, at least it was like, okay, you said
33:16
student work. It looks like that. It feels like
33:18
that. right it has the feel of like a student
33:21
designed piece yeah so looking at it like chronologically
33:24
for david lynch it makes no sense to me like
33:27
i don't understand why he did this like was it
33:30
just him having fun with battle lamenti did they
33:32
just decide that they wanted to like test some
33:34
concepts out because at this point he had created
33:37
eraser head he had done the elephant man he did
33:40
dune which is like a huge movie but it was a
33:43
massive flop And then he did Blue Velvet already
33:46
at this point. And he had Twin Peaks and Wild
33:49
at Heart like in the hopper. Like, why the fuck
33:52
would you do this? He was asked to do this. And
33:55
then two weeks later, they did it. I think it
33:58
was I think it was really like the student. I
34:00
agree that like there's an element of it. This
34:02
feels kind of like a student piece. But maybe
34:05
that's because I don't know David Lynch enough.
34:06
But I wonder if that's the answer to your question.
34:09
Is that somebody asked him? He's like, why not?
34:11
We can then like throw this together with. you
34:13
know pieces that are already kind of there like
34:15
i mean i think that really kind of like explains
34:18
it we're just like i mean david lynch was always
34:19
more of an artist than i think he was a studio
34:24
filmmaker um even i was just listening to an
34:28
interview with uh kyle mclaughlin where he was
34:30
talking about how he was asked about david lynch
34:32
leaving uh twin peaks after season one and kyle
34:35
mclaughlin was like he got bored he didn't want
34:37
to be on set every day he didn't want to produce
34:38
a tv show he like built it and as soon as like
34:42
the work started he was like all right i want
34:43
to go do something else so i think just he did
34:47
it for the sake of getting to do something weird
34:48
and creative and you know when you make all those
34:54
movies and like things you listed i'm like if
34:57
you have the option to do something weird for
34:59
yourself fucking do it i feel like especially
35:02
after dune with how much that was just a shit
35:04
show like throughout and he's just like no i
35:07
just want to i just want to make my own weird
35:09
shit Yeah. And I could see this being produced
35:12
as something that like he could be interested
35:14
in because it allows him a way to kind of test
35:18
out and explore some of the elements that, you
35:21
know, would eventually find their way into some
35:24
of his other work like Twin Peaks. And so it's
35:27
interesting as like a, I don't know, like a testing
35:30
ground for some of this and, you know, seeing
35:33
how he can make this music. kind of uh effect
35:39
or like be a part of kind of the whole element
35:42
of it instead of just being sort of a background
35:45
piece to it but uh and you know two weeks sure
35:50
i could see how this is kind of light on structure
35:53
uh content yeah i mean i'm cranked out stuff
35:59
and less than felt like less for it i was wondering
36:05
maybe he maybe they did start from the we have
36:08
this music let's start from there and then you
36:11
know oh this kind of works with wild at heart's
36:13
characters so we can put that in as a framing
36:17
device at the beginning which i'm not even sure
36:18
i'm not sure if that was something that the audience
36:21
saw or not i was really wondering about that
36:24
yeah it's actually a good point they probably
36:25
just heard audio of it no the uh the video stuff
36:28
the lynch and dern stuff was added in afterwards
36:31
so It was just a film post production thing from
36:35
what I read. But did the audience actually hear
36:37
it before? I don't think so. I think it was recorded
36:41
and everything after and put in in post that.
36:45
OK, that would be such a mind fuck for me. OK,
36:47
so you go into this play. It starts with this
36:49
insanity, you know, and then there's a guy sawing
36:53
a log. He then tugs like a light bulb on a skateboard.
36:57
And then at some point he comes out and there's
37:00
doleful clarinet and he reads a letter that you
37:02
have not heard yet at that point. Yeah. What
37:06
the fuck? That makes the movie make no sense
37:09
to me. Like seeing that on stage, I'd just be
37:11
like, David Lynch shouldn't show his face in
37:14
public again. I would be that guy. Maybe liner
37:18
notes. I don't know. That's crazy. Cause even,
37:22
even like I, I wouldn't have understood it as
37:25
well as I, I, didn't understand it but like i
37:28
wouldn't have even understood it to that degree
37:30
if i hadn't seen the credits run at the end and
37:32
like i don't know if i would have understood
37:34
fully like the the structuring around the songs
37:37
if i hadn't seen like the list of all the songs
37:39
and the credits and i don't know i just yeah
37:43
i hear you man that's wild that is wild at heart
37:46
um i just holy shit That blows my mind that somebody
37:52
would not have gotten that interaction played
37:54
for them in the theater. But maybe they didn't.
37:56
Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I'd have to, you know,
37:59
go back and re -find whatever I read that I believe
38:03
said that. But I think that's how it was. Probably
38:07
true. And I mean, I think this was a little bit
38:09
before actual filming had started for Wild at
38:12
Heart. And like Dern and Cage have no chemistry
38:16
in that. Like it is. in this yeah no they don't
38:19
in this and then if you watch while at heart
38:21
terrific chemistry because i think at that point
38:24
they had gone on their road trip and then fucked
38:26
because i guarantee that they fucked during i
38:28
wouldn't be surprised if they just recorded those
38:32
parts completely separate from each other i'm
38:34
sure they were not in the same room and i was
38:38
i was thinking that that was one of the problems
38:39
with like the execution maybe was that they're
38:41
they were separated now i will tell you watching
38:45
wild at heart laura dern's performance does feel
38:47
a lot like that like it does feel like she has
38:50
been recording without somebody else there and
38:52
you can see that they're in the same room and
38:53
you're like wow you just have like a very strange
38:56
character and she's a great actress but you know
38:58
it's like this is weird you are reacting so weirdly
39:02
this is not a human but in that movie they do
39:05
have chemistry yeah and nick cage does do a backflip
39:09
oh my god that was such a cool backflip wasn't
39:12
a stunt double no he did it this is back when
39:15
he was fit he could do like the one arm push
39:17
-ups and stuff huh yeah oh yeah man yeah okay
39:20
i don't have a lot of other notes for this movie
39:23
i mean i wrote a whole bunch of shit i don't
39:25
think any of it has any value yeah no i mean
39:28
i was thinking that too like i re -watched it
39:30
before recording i was just like i have no idea
39:31
what i want to fucking talk about yeah i mean
39:34
so like i think to nick's point like I think
39:38
the stage production is pretty interesting visually.
39:40
You know, there's a lot of like flashing lights
39:42
and weird stuff. It makes you very unsettled.
39:45
I think it accomplishes its goal of that. It's
39:48
got like that industrial music video feel a lot.
39:52
I could see, you know, you could play Nine Inch
39:54
Nails over this and it would probably work. Yeah.
39:57
There's a play that I'm really struggling to
40:00
remember or a performance of a specific play
40:03
that had a very similar kind of vibe. that was
40:07
just like, you know, scaffolding and girders
40:10
and, you know, harsh lights, sharp noises and
40:14
everything. It was not. Spider -Man into the
40:19
dark. That's probably it. Yeah. This had all
40:22
the hallmarks of something written by the edge.
40:27
I can see like influence from more good stage
40:34
productions in this, but. it's, it's a hard one.
40:40
It's a hard one. I give it a lot more credit
40:42
now knowing that it was a two week production
40:44
cycle. Like you got fire pots to blow up on stage
40:47
without actually burning. Yeah. I bet when you
40:52
turn on all the lights and you just look at the
40:54
stage, like set and everything, it must look
40:57
insane. Like, just like, why, why are we hanging
41:01
out with this? Like a couple of scaffolding kind
41:03
of pushed into a space, a burnt out car and like
41:07
some, long ropes identifying like power lines
41:11
yeah kind of like uh when you turn on the lights
41:14
at space mountain and you're just inside and
41:16
it's like holy shit i could die at any moment
41:19
in here everything's so close together but they
41:23
turn out the lights and you feel safe but this
41:26
is the opposite once the lights go out on this
41:28
show it's i feel very yeah very unsafe I kind
41:32
of feel like I need at least a tetanus shot and
41:35
maybe some penicillin after. Have you guys ever
41:38
been to St. Louis, specifically the City Museum?
41:43
Oh, yeah. The City Museum fucking rules. The
41:46
City Museum fucking slaps this. Yeah, that's
41:50
what. OK, that's that stage is kind of what the
41:52
City Museum is. It's for kids to climb on. It's
41:56
for adults to climb on. Well, that's true, too,
41:58
but everything's built for adults. It comes with
42:00
when you go there, you can rent hard hats because
42:03
you will hit your head. And I'm surprised they
42:06
don't make you sign a waiver because everything
42:09
is fucking just swimming in tetanus. I describe
42:13
it as like it's a discovery zone for adults.
42:15
Yeah, that's a good way to put it. OK, Sean,
42:19
final thoughts on this movie slash stage production.
42:23
if you like weird shit if you like david lynch
42:25
i'd say give it a watch it's only 40 minutes
42:27
um it's it's worth seeing um i think like all
42:32
great art it's worth experiencing once like if
42:36
you don't like david lynch don't watch it you're
42:38
not gonna like it but if you like if you like
42:40
lynch's brain like okay just you know it's one
42:44
it's one more piece of david lynch media that
42:45
you can engage with yeah i think that's a fine
42:49
take uh well i think that's a good take wow five
42:52
years i finally get a compliment yeah wow way
42:55
to course correct he wasn't paying attention
42:57
yeah I know I'm over here fucking googling shit
43:00
it's all porn don't worry at the city museum
43:04
in St. Louis it's totally worth watching if you
43:10
are into very avant -garde productions and art
43:16
and if you like David Lynch that's probably another
43:19
good reason to watch it I don't I don't feel
43:23
like my life was lessened by watching it. It's
43:27
short. Yeah, which we can't say for everything
43:29
that we've watched for this podcast. I have definitely
43:31
watched some things that I'm like, I'm never
43:33
getting that time back. And this is like, okay,
43:35
I watched this twice. So, you know, I spent as
43:39
much time as I would on any single Nicolas Cage
43:42
film for all of a minute and a half combined
43:46
of Nicolas Cage performance now. I don't know.
43:51
I can find a reason to watch it. I'm not going
43:54
to ever again, but I could, if I ever wanted
43:56
to try to compare or take inspiration from any
44:01
of the lighting in it, because the lighting is
44:03
cool. The lighting is cool. Yeah. In terms of
44:06
like creative inspiration, like if I was, you
44:09
know, you already said your last thing. If I
44:14
was technically, I still haven't introduced myself.
44:19
If I was like, you know, doing some type of like
44:22
cyberpunk or industrial like illustration like
44:25
this would be fun to like just have on one of
44:27
my monitors going just to kind of you know stir
44:30
the old brain pot bill what do you think i'm
44:33
glad that i watched it and it made me think and
44:36
i don't know that i would recommend it to most
44:38
people but if you're curious about things then
44:42
maybe it's okay to watch If you like being alienated
44:48
by something you are patronizing or providing
44:52
patronage to, it's great. I love being pushed
44:55
out by my art. I'm not going to put a bigger
45:01
button on anything that you guys have just said
45:03
because I think you kind of nailed it. But my
45:04
favorite part of this was when Michael J. Anderson
45:06
does that recreation of the phone call, which
45:09
now maybe was the only time anyone heard that
45:11
phone call. uh i love at the end of it like a
45:14
super salty bitch he just goes click yeah the
45:18
click was great that stood out to me that is
45:23
one of my favorite moments for this entire thing
45:25
everything else is like big weird deer sure whatever
45:28
you know dummy falling bunch of dolls in the
45:31
sky weird airplane bombings you know a lot of
45:35
floating a lot of that wizard of oz glenda the
45:38
good witch shit that ends up in wild at heart
45:40
i don't know it's like such a weird little piece
45:45
of history you know especially knowing that it
45:49
only showed twice and this is the only recording
45:52
of it and it's just like what i don't know i
45:57
like weird shit and i like that weird shit has
46:00
space to exist and i hope that we keep getting
46:04
weird shit in our world because we can't just
46:06
have ai generated crap no i'm gonna spend the
46:09
rest of the day trying to figure out what that
46:11
theater production i can't remember is well thank
46:15
you all for listening bill thank you for being
46:16
here yeah thanks for having me it's uh we've
46:18
we've really enjoyed having you uh intro our
46:21
music every intro our podcast every every episode
46:25
and uh nice to get to talk to you about actual
46:27
like smart music stuff so thanks for bringing
46:29
that to the table because usually we're like
46:32
poop stuff which i'm ready to get back to if
46:36
anybody wants to go back to poop stuff no We
46:41
are doing a showing of Adaptation on November
46:43
7th in Seattle. It's at 5 o 'clock. It's a matinee.
46:46
If you are available and are interested in coming
46:48
to that, please come join us. I will post a link
46:51
on this podcast episode. And thank you to our
46:54
Sparkle Buddies, Josh, Josie, Matt, Adam, Bill,
46:56
Stuart, and Willow. And to our Cage Dancers,
46:59
John, Freeman, Nathan, and Cameron. And of course,
47:01
for our intro music, Bill Banks. Thanks, Bill.
47:04
Thank you all. And I'm Sean. Bye. Bye. I don't
47:24
have a three and a half millimeter on my computer.
47:26
Oh, wait. Yes, I do. Let me try that. It was
47:32
hidden. It's just that little hole. You know,
47:37
I don't fuck with little holes. All right.