Latest / NHA Today Podcast / Mindset Over Weight: Intuitive Eating, GLP-1 Medications & Ending Weight Cycling with Mary Marshall, RN | Ep. 161

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Mindset Over Weight: Intuitive Eating, GLP-1 Medications & Ending Weight Cycling with Mary Marshall, RN | Ep. 161 · NHA Today Podcast

0:00
podcast.
0:01
I'm Eileen Kopsoftis,
0:03
and I have the distinct pleasure of
0:06
introducing a dear friend and colleague of
0:09
mine whom I've known for many years.
0:11
We've spoken on the same conference stage
0:14
more than once, and I've heard her speak.
0:17
And what I love about your work, Mary,
0:21
and I'll introduce you in a moment,
0:22
is the fact that it's so outside the
0:24
box.
0:26
And we're going to really have a lot
0:28
of fun unpacking this in this time
0:29
together.
0:30
But I will introduce you first.
0:32
So this is Mary Marshall.
0:34
And Mary is an RN with a very
0:36
long history of working in the fields of
0:37
health and wellness.
0:39
She has led and facilitated both community
0:42
and workplace wellness programs.
0:44
She's also spent many years as a fitness
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instructor.
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So she's got a little bit of diversity
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there.
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And in all of these fields,
0:51
she felt great compassion for those
0:54
feeling frustration and shame around their
0:59
weight.
1:00
And this is a heavy topic,
1:02
no pun intended,
1:04
that led her to create mindset over
1:07
weight,
1:08
which is an approach that incorporates
1:10
intuitive eating.
1:12
And we're going to be unpacking that
1:13
today.
1:14
It's a weight neutral approach to health
1:18
and, of course, mindset.
1:19
to achieve one's dreams of your best
1:22
health and your best life.
1:25
So welcome, Mary.
1:28
Thank you so much for being here.
1:31
And first, I think I would like,
1:33
I mean, I did just read your bio,
1:34
but if you could give us just a
1:35
little more detail about what really drew
1:39
you into this, because, you know,
1:41
there's so much information out there
1:44
about weight and
1:45
I mean, oh my gosh,
1:47
if you went on the internet,
1:48
you're going to see millions and millions
1:50
of sources and resources and options.
1:54
So tell me a little bit about why
1:57
you took this daunting task on and how
2:01
you felt what you offer was missing.
2:03
Right.
2:06
Well, thanks, Eileen,
2:07
and thank you for having me and inviting
2:09
me to be on the podcast.
2:12
It's always nice to spend time with you.
2:16
But as you said,
2:17
I'm a nurse and started out doing adult
2:21
medicine.
2:22
And then when I became a mom,
2:26
I kind of backed off my work hours
2:29
and did some nursing homework,
2:31
some casual home care.
2:34
And in all of that, you know,
2:36
I kind of ended up coming to that,
2:38
like,
2:40
we can do better than this for people,
2:43
right?
2:43
I even kind of found myself when I
2:46
was working in the nursing home,
2:48
realizing how expensive it was.
2:50
thinking for a little bit,
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and this is before I ever learned anything
2:54
about mindset, thinking,
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I better start saving.
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We better start saving so we can afford
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this someday.
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And then I was like, what?
3:02
Like, no, no, no.
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I'm not thinking that at all.
3:09
You know, I just wanted to reject that,
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but I still felt like we have to
3:14
do better for people.
3:16
And then became more interested in
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you know, keeping myself healthy,
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learning what that is, and then becoming,
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as you said, a fitness instructor.
3:27
And,
3:28
and kind of being in all those places
3:30
led me to then working in workplace
3:32
wellness.
3:33
And of course, you know,
3:35
trying to keep people well,
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kind of ascribing to that, you know,
3:42
that belief that, well,
3:44
that's about weight loss,
3:45
a big part of that is weight loss.
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And
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you just saw people, as I said,
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saw people feeling ashamed, struggling,
3:54
trying really hard and continually
3:58
struggling with weight, you know,
4:02
losing and gaining and losing and gaining.
4:06
And then I learned about the benefits of
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a whole food plant-based diet.
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And yes,
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weight loss is often a benefit of that.
4:17
I also learned that,
4:18
the importance of practicing informed
4:21
healthcare decision-making and really
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knowing what you're practicing.
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But I saw people practicing, and again,
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smart people, people trying really hard,
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doing the plant-based thing,
4:39
but still struggling with their weight and
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still feeling the shame and still feeling
4:46
the fear.
4:48
of all of that and then I so
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I started I went to look you know
4:53
research like what maybe we just need to
4:56
help people be healthy and not worry about
4:58
this but I wanted to know is that
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can I tell people that is that the
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right thing to tell them right so I
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went to the research and really did what
5:10
I found was so surprising to me and
5:15
so shocking was that
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you know,
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people can be healthy across a wide range
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of weights.
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And that truly this gaining, losing,
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gaining, losing,
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which we call weight cycling,
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is very dangerous, you know,
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poses a lot of health risks for people,
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more so than maintaining a stable weight,
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even a stable weight and a higher BMI,
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right?
5:41
And so in kind of learning about all
5:46
that,
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I came to learn about
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intuitive eating and when people practiced
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a more intuitive approach to eating,
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eating in response to their internal
6:00
signals, right?
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Instead of external rules or emotions or
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situations.
6:07
And people were able to maintain weight
6:09
better, health parameters that improved,
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state improved, and incidentally,
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weight loss,
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was maintained better as well when it did
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happen.
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So again,
6:23
it was kind of like when I found
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out a lot of the benefits of,
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you know,
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eating a lot of plants and eating a
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plant-based diet and practicing informed
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healthcare, I just was like,
6:37
people have to know, you know, it's,
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you know, it kind of, you,
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I know you share that approach too,
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Eileen, you're out to like,
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tell people how to get out of pain,
6:48
how to age well.
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And it's just like, you gotta know.
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Yes.
6:53
Yes.
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People have to know this stuff, you know,
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it's not mainstream knowledge,
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but it should be.
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So, so that's why we're doing this.
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Yes.
7:00
So yeah.
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Thank you for that.
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And I, and I love how you said,
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you know, the mindset you caught yourself.
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about the nursing home future.
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And because it's the mainstream narrative
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that we've been fed,
7:14
that's been shoved down our throats for
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decades about you're going to decline as
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you get older.
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Or in your field,
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if you don't lose weight,
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you can't be healthy.
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If you're not this perfect BMI,
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you're failing.
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You're doing something wrong.
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You're broken.
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There's
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I think that is probably the most tragic
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result of people struggling to lose weight
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is their identity.
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Their identity is attacked.
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So,
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so I'd love for you to tell me
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a little bit more about, you know,
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the mindset shift that's required to
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become an attuned eater,
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because I like how you said that I
8:00
caught that little,
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it's about listening to your internal
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signals, not listening.
8:06
like your cravings or your emotions or
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your,
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because some people are going to think,
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oh, I can just eat whatever I want.
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That's what intuitive eating is.
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And so I would love for you to
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clarify for those who might've gotten the
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wrong impression from that statement.
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Right.
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And I think that is,
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you said so many things there,
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but I'll answer your,
8:27
I'll answer the question.
8:30
It is, that is so much the perception.
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And I think why people
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sometimes are even afraid of intuitive
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eating because, well,
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I can't just let myself go and have
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whatever I want.
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And the mindset shift there is that we
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presume that what we want is all the
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stuff that is forbidden now, right?
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Because it's forbidden,
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that makes it so much more alluring to
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us, right?
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What is rare becomes desirable, right?
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So that's the mindset shift.
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One of the biggest ones we make is
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that actually,
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I always kind of use this little phrase
9:21
in my newsletter.
9:22
You're like, you're a pretty smart cookie,
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right?
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Your body knows,
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and you actually do develop.
9:28
The more you practice,
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and I like to call it attuned eating,
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the more you practice tuning in to really
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when you are hungry and feeding yourself
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when you are hungry,
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giving your body fuel when it needs fuel,
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and then honoring your need for
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satisfaction because it truly is a need.
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It is important for us to find pleasure
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in food and enjoy our food and feel
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satisfied.
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Yeah, the reason we have this one is
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Yeah, right.
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Supposed to enjoy it.
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Food is supposed to taste good.
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Eating is supposed to be a pleasurable
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experience, no matter your size, right?
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We were designed that way because we need
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to eat to survive, right?
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And there's this, you know,
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that's another mindset shift, right?
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Like so many people who are of high
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weight, it's kind of like, well,
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you shouldn't.
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you know,
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you shouldn't want to enjoy your food.
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You should want to lose weight.
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Like,
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and you should give up enjoying your food
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if that's what you need to do to
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lose weight.
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You made a little mention of the GLP-ones.
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I mean, that makes people hate,
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not want to eat.
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Like, so, right.
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And I'm thinking people end up in that
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mental trap, right?
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because most of the time they're eating
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foods for other reasons for pleasure,
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but it's not because they're hungry.
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And so now they translate that over into,
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oh,
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wanting food that tastes good is bad for
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me because look how I ended up when
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I did that.
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You know,
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I'm so glad you kind of brought that
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up because mindset overweight is,
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isn't and attuned eating isn't as much as
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about not eating when for emotional
11:37
reasons or you know in response to a
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craving it's not as much about not doing
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that interestingly as it is about actually
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feeding yourself when you're hungry
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feeding yourself enough to
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feel full, feel satisfied,
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giving yourself what feels,
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what it is that you recognize you need
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in that moment.
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And when you do that,
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when you do that, those other signals,
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the signals for, I need fuel,
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I need to eat,
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become more clearer and louder and better.
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And so the other signals
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The other signals of I'm stressed,
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I'm lonely, I'm bored, I'm, you know,
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I don't want to do this thing,
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so I'm going to eat instead.
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Those signals become more easily
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recognized for what are.
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So you become more attuned to many things,
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right?
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Not just your hunger signals,
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but your signals for your other needs.
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And that's what I love about the practice.
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is that people start recognizing, oh,
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yeah, I recognize I really, you know,
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I really needed a rest, right?
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I really needed to take a little bit
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of a break,
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or I was really feeling kind of lonely.
13:12
What I really needed was to call my
13:14
friend.
13:15
So it sounds like a subtle difference,
13:19
but it really is the more you focus
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on recognizing your needs and honoring
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them,
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the less, the clearer they get,
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the clearer the signals get,
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and the more you can honor and recognize
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and discern all your needs.
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You know,
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I love it because as you're talking about
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this,
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I'm kind of seeing the parallel because
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when I teach people how to assess their
13:45
body,
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they're having to notice things and
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They're having to pay attention.
13:52
And I tell them it's always a good
13:53
idea to assess before you do some physical
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activity,
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whether it's some of the strategies I
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teach or movement or whatever,
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and then reassess after so that your
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nervous system and your fascial system can
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receive that information and learn from
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it.
14:09
Yeah.
14:11
And so that's essentially what you're
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doing is you're improving the efficiency
14:16
of the communication that's happening in
14:18
their body.
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And then their body is learning from that
14:22
more efficient communication.
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So you're kind of changing their
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neurological responses and patterns.
14:29
Yes.
14:31
Yes.
14:31
Yeah.
14:33
Yeah, isn't that awesome?
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I know.
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I mean,
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the human body is just so stinking
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awesome.
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It's crazy.
14:37
Yeah.
14:39
So let's dive a little bit into,
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you know, a lot of people have heard.
14:44
I love your newsletter.
14:45
Your newsletter is amazing.
14:46
Hopefully everybody listening will sign up
14:48
for your newsletter.
14:50
The one that just came out,
14:51
I think it just came out today, right?
14:53
Mm-hmm.
14:53
Mm-hmm.
14:56
our satisfaction when we eat, you know,
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those, those macronutrients,
15:00
the one previous proteins and carbs,
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and then this one was on fat carbs.
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Yeah.
15:06
And so,
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so many people are told that fat is
15:11
the enemy and,
15:14
and you're not telling them to, you know,
15:16
pour a bunch of olive oil on their
15:17
food.
15:17
So I'm going to tell people right now,
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don't get me wrong.
15:22
You're not going to take anybody out.
15:23
Yeah.
15:25
But I love how you brought up how
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it impacts those two all important
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signals, ghrelin and leptin.
15:35
And a lot of people have heard those.
15:37
So if you wouldn't mind kind of explaining
15:39
those in a little more detail and how
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fat plays a role in that and it
15:45
can actually sabotage people with some of
15:48
the mindset they have about fat.
15:50
Right.
15:52
Yeah.
15:54
And, you know,
15:54
the last couple of episodes or episodes,
15:58
issues,
15:59
the one today and the previous one,
16:02
I kind of felt, I don't know,
16:04
I just felt like I had to spend
16:05
a little time talking about nutrition in
16:10
the newsletter,
16:12
just to sort of balance that perception
16:16
that there is about intuitive eating is
16:18
just eating what you want and indulgence
16:21
and
16:21
and all of that.
16:23
And so what I,
16:24
what I find is so interesting is that,
16:27
yeah, you know, we,
16:30
the last issue was about carbohydrates and
16:33
mostly carbohydrates and fiber and how,
16:37
you know, we have these,
16:38
these hormones in the body, you know,
16:40
leptin,
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which is the kind of the I'm full
16:43
signal gives the I'm full signal and
16:46
ghrelin, which is the I'm hungry,
16:48
feed me signal.
16:50
And with the more whole foods are in
16:55
general,
16:57
the better their impact on your signaling,
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right?
17:00
And with fats, as we talked about,
17:02
and as I talked about in this issue,
17:05
it was very interesting that saturated
17:11
fats,
17:11
which are your fats from animal foods.
17:14
And again, you can think of, you know,
17:17
nobody eats a,
17:19
any animal food you eat is pretty
17:20
processed, right?
17:21
So that's from a processed,
17:25
that's a processed food and a processed
17:28
fat,
17:28
but the saturated fats really give much
17:32
less of a, I'm full leptin signal.
17:36
And typically when we eat that grill and
17:40
that I'm hungry,
17:40
feed me signal gets suppressed as you
17:44
know, we eat more.
17:45
Well, there's,
17:47
the saturated fats do less suppression of
17:52
the ghrelin and less stimulation of the
17:57
leptin.
17:58
So,
17:58
which means they actually entice you to,
18:04
or set you up to eat more.
18:07
Okay.
18:10
Okay.
18:11
Which, and you don't get to, you know,
18:13
to just eat more.
18:14
And also they tend to make you want
18:16
more.
18:17
fats as well.
18:19
So which what the problem isn't fats are
18:24
bad, let's make a new rule.
18:27
What the lesson that I wanted to get
18:29
across was, they mess up your signaling,
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you're not going to get good signals and
18:35
get good information to give your body
18:38
what it needs.
18:40
Hmm.
18:41
I love that.
18:41
So I always think of Gremlin.
18:43
I remember that movie Gremlin.
18:45
And, you know, after.
18:45
Yes.
18:46
Yeah.
18:46
You know, I'm hungry.
18:47
I'm hungry.
18:49
I'm hungry.
18:50
You know, it's it's.
18:51
Yes.
18:52
And then the leptin tells you, OK,
18:54
you're good.
18:55
You're satisfied.
18:56
Lovely leptin.
18:57
I used to always I used to say
18:58
like lovely leptin.
19:00
So so the saturated fats in animal foods
19:04
are completely disrupting that that
19:06
efficiency of that signaling.
19:09
So you're kind of essentially hearing a
19:12
little more, I'm hungry, keep eating.
19:14
You're not hearing, I'm satisfied,
19:16
I'm done.
19:16
Right.
19:18
And it also gets you to crave eating
19:20
even more fats.
19:21
Yes.
19:23
So saturated fats are really not our
19:25
friend.
19:26
Yes.
19:28
But you weren't saying that all fats were
19:29
bad, so...
19:32
Right.
19:35
The unsaturated fats from plant sources
19:40
are much better at giving clearer signals.
19:47
But fat in general, and this is just,
19:50
again, I'm not saying fat is bad.
19:55
I'm saying
19:56
be informed when you're making your
19:58
decisions and do your best to get the
20:01
clearest signals you can.
20:04
So plant fats, you know,
20:07
give better signaling, better, you know,
20:11
you get a better leptin response,
20:13
better ghrelin suppression.
20:20
And we'll just give people some examples,
20:21
you know,
20:22
the plant fats that you're talking about.
20:23
So they're not thinking about olive oil,
20:25
you know.
20:26
right we're talking about olives walnuts
20:32
flax seeds that you you want to make
20:34
sure you grind your flax seeds before you
20:36
eat them um avocados right and when you
20:40
have when you eat plants in their whole
20:44
food form they've got fiber they've got
20:47
other nutrients right you're giving
20:50
yourself you know more of what your body
20:54
needs
20:55
Right.
20:56
So.
21:00
And, you know, having that combination of,
21:03
you know,
21:04
fats with the fiber and with the other
21:06
nutrients.
21:10
Right.
21:10
And nobody's going to just sit down and
21:11
eat six avocados.
21:13
I mean,
21:13
it's now usually it's a condiment avocado
21:16
on a sandwich, that kind of thing.
21:18
Right.
21:19
And in general, when you.
21:22
In terms of signaling and, you know,
21:27
it really is nice for your,
21:30
the best results come from, you know,
21:33
kind of carbohydrate, fiber,
21:38
maybe a little bit of protein and some
21:40
fat.
21:41
Again, you know, we don't eat nutrients.
21:45
We eat food.
21:47
Right.
21:47
I love when you made that.
21:49
You wrote that.
21:49
Yeah.
21:50
Yeah.
21:50
You're not eating a plate of carbohydrate
21:52
and protein.
21:53
You're eating.
21:54
I had bean soup.
21:56
Right.
21:57
Yeah.
21:57
Yeah, exactly.
22:00
Yes.
22:00
All right.
22:02
So this mindset shift now.
22:10
The whole diet culture just permeates the
22:14
health and wellness industry,
22:16
just permeates it.
22:17
What's your BMI?
22:18
What's this?
22:19
What's that?
22:19
And I remind myself,
22:22
I spent eight months diving deep into the
22:24
research to create an obesity and pain
22:26
course because of how much excess weight
22:29
creates more chronic pain,
22:31
just widespread overall and increases
22:33
risks of a lot of things.
22:35
But it wasn't necessarily just because
22:37
they were heavier on the scale.
22:39
It had to do with, you know,
22:41
the other issues.
22:43
So that mindset shift that's required,
22:50
that whole culture,
22:52
how have you seen this work with people?
22:54
I mean,
22:54
do you find this is a major challenge
22:57
or do you find that once people get
22:59
it,
23:00
it's like a light bulb goes off and
23:02
they're set free kind of thing?
23:05
I think it's, it's both.
23:07
It is, it's challenging.
23:09
And once you get it, the, you know,
23:15
it is like, oh, it's kind of like,
23:21
you know, with, with healthcare, you know,
23:23
when I kind of sort of realized, oh,
23:27
you know,
23:28
just because something comes from
23:29
mainstream medicine or a particular
23:32
authoritative source, right.
23:35
doesn't mean it's the best information.
23:38
And once you,
23:40
and I think that's why for me,
23:42
it maybe was easier to incorporate and
23:46
understand, but it is a difficult leap.
23:50
But again, there's research,
23:53
there's evidence, there's, you know,
23:57
and I would say once people get it,
23:58
it's like they're,
23:59
and once then you start practicing and
24:03
seeing it in action, right?
24:06
It's like, oh, and you realize, oh,
24:09
my brain is so much freer.
24:12
Like I have so much more headspace to
24:14
actually think and do things and get
24:17
things done because I'm not being
24:20
distracted with, oh, my gosh,
24:22
I'm too heavy.
24:23
I need to lose weight.
24:25
I need to eat like this and do
24:28
that.
24:31
But, you know,
24:32
I will say you still hear the messages
24:35
that just because you've changed your
24:37
mindset doesn't mean all that messaging
24:39
goes away.
24:40
So you have to like kind of see
24:42
it and remind yourself all the time.
24:47
Yeah.
24:47
Yeah.
24:48
And then obviously I have to have to
24:49
teach that as well,
24:50
because just because you decide to reject
24:52
the narrative that it's not a required
24:55
state to end up in a nursing home
24:56
before you go below ground,
24:58
you're still going to keep getting that
24:59
messaging, even though you're.
25:01
Exactly.
25:01
Yeah.
25:01
Yeah.
25:07
So.
25:07
So.
25:07
Most feel like you have to defend yourself
25:10
or, you know, against that all the time.
25:13
Mm hmm.
25:14
Yeah.
25:15
So you talked about it's more dangerous to
25:19
lose weight and gain weight,
25:20
lose weight and gain weight,
25:21
lose weight and gain weight.
25:22
So how does weight loss actually drive
25:29
weight regain from your perspective?
25:33
Oh, that's like,
25:34
thank you for asking that because that's
25:38
the piece that so many people,
25:41
piece of information so many people don't
25:43
have.
25:45
is that when you lose weight,
25:49
and this is for the vast majority of
25:51
people that lose weight, a design, right,
25:54
intentionally, your body thinks,
25:59
and this is because your body goes into
26:03
a mode of protecting you, right?
26:05
It's your body's role is always to help
26:09
you survive.
26:10
And it's always doing that.
26:11
It's always working for your good.
26:14
But it thinks you're starving.
26:17
It doesn't know you want to wear that
26:19
cute little black dress to your class
26:21
reunion.
26:23
It doesn't care.
26:24
It's like, yes,
26:27
we're starving to stay alive until the
26:29
reunion.
26:29
Yeah.
26:30
Yes.
26:31
And so what happens is.
26:35
you kind of your brain makes you look
26:38
for food.
26:39
Why am I thinking about food all the
26:41
time?
26:42
Right?
26:42
When people who are dieting,
26:44
so all I can do is think about
26:46
food.
26:46
Well,
26:46
that's your brain trying to keep you from
26:48
starving to death.
26:51
It makes highly palatable calorie dense
26:54
foods seem more appealing.
26:57
They are you're drawn to them more, right?
26:59
What do you when you are
27:01
When you go too long without eating and
27:03
your blood sugar is low, right?
27:07
What do you want?
27:08
You crave the quickest,
27:10
most energy dense candy or thing you need
27:13
right away.
27:13
And that's what your brain is doing.
27:16
So people think, what's wrong with me?
27:17
All I want is the sweet stuff,
27:19
but I want to lose weight.
27:21
It's not because you're broken or there's
27:23
something wrong with you.
27:25
That would be,
27:26
that's the biggest message I want to make
27:29
sure people hear here is,
27:31
if you feel like you've been fighting,
27:34
I hear people say,
27:34
I've been fighting my body my whole life.
27:37
You know, what's wrong with me?
27:39
I just can't do this.
27:41
I just can't stick with it.
27:42
You know,
27:44
it's because you have a body that must
27:46
really love you,
27:47
because it's trying to keep you alive.
27:51
And help you survive.
27:52
So, you know, that that, and that's,
27:57
that's probably
27:59
that's an even bigger mindset shift,
28:02
right?
28:03
Yeah, yeah.
28:04
To realize you're not broken when you have
28:07
those cravings.
28:08
And I mean,
28:09
it doesn't mean you want to give into
28:10
them all and end up, you know,
28:11
trashing your goals,
28:13
but understanding why you have them and
28:16
not blaming yourself for them.
28:18
Right.
28:19
And just eating what we, you know,
28:23
just eating calorie dense,
28:25
highly palatable foods, you know,
28:28
the things that are,
28:29
you know, people think of as bad foods.
28:33
And I,
28:34
that's a big thing I do is try
28:35
to get people don't can think of foods
28:37
as good or bad, even healthy or unhealthy,
28:41
but lots of calories and a little bit
28:47
like calorie dense, highly palatable, um,
28:51
nutrient poor, nutrient rich,
28:54
like to really be objective, um,
28:59
But indulging in foods that,
29:03
in all your forbidden foods, if you will,
29:06
if you, that's no more,
29:09
that's no more practicing self-care than
29:15
not feeding yourself when you're hungry,
29:17
giving yourself this much of whatever it
29:19
is to eat and not eating till,
29:21
you know, so many,
29:22
till it's time to eat and really rigidly
29:28
you know,
29:29
enforcing rules that are making you
29:31
miserable and not enjoying your food or
29:33
taking medications that make you feel sick
29:36
all the time.
29:39
Neither one, neither,
29:42
neither one of those two scenarios is
29:44
practicing good self care.
29:46
Yeah.
29:46
And speaking of those medications,
29:48
because you mentioned that earlier,
29:50
the weight loss medications that now we
29:52
can get at a lesser cost.
29:54
I can't even.
29:56
So,
29:57
so many people are considering this as
30:00
like the magic answer.
30:02
They're not being fully informed.
30:05
I visited some family members last summer
30:08
in Texas,
30:10
and my one cousin mentioned to me that
30:12
they had put him on that medication to
30:16
normalize his blood sugar.
30:18
Now he wasn't technically diabetic.
30:21
He was like pre-diabetic.
30:23
So put him on this medication and he
30:26
said, yeah,
30:27
and it's working and I'm there and I'm
30:28
there and I don't want to overeat and
30:30
I don't want to.
30:31
And I just looked now,
30:33
of course I could have started lecturing
30:34
him for a half hour,
30:35
but we can't push a word.
30:36
It's so hard not to sometimes.
30:38
People aren't asking you the questions you
30:40
just don't offer.
30:42
I just simply said,
30:43
consider me a resource.
30:46
If you ever have any questions about this
30:48
topic, you know, he's got a number.
30:50
So,
30:51
so I would love for you to kind
30:54
of encapsulate what is the big danger
30:58
about these medications?
31:00
I mean, what have you seen?
31:02
I know you've done a deep dive into
31:04
the literature, the data.
31:05
We've spoken on this many times.
31:08
Share about that, please.
31:09
So people know.
31:13
I guess the most important thing to know
31:17
is that just like dieting, right,
31:20
which we know up to ninety eight percent
31:23
of people when they lose weight,
31:24
they don't keep it off.
31:26
Right.
31:26
When they diet.
31:29
Same thing with the GLP ones.
31:32
Right.
31:33
People will lose weight.
31:34
Right.
31:36
But then I think the,
31:39
it was less than two years.
31:41
I think the initial studies were two years
31:43
before they were even done.
31:44
People were starting to trend back up and
31:47
gain weight.
31:48
So.
31:50
Right.
31:51
So even staying on the medication.
31:54
Yes.
31:54
Yes.
31:55
So it's not that they stopped the
31:57
medication.
31:58
No, no, no on it.
32:00
And the way it works to was trending
32:02
up.
32:03
Yes.
32:03
So.
32:06
Do you want to, you know,
32:08
have all the side effects for what, right?
32:14
And the side effects, I think, well,
32:17
I want to say these medications work by,
32:22
one of the main ways they work is
32:24
they slow your gastric emptying.
32:26
So your stomach,
32:27
food stays in your stomach and your gut
32:29
longer, so you don't feel full.
32:32
They also mess with your signaling.
32:34
Right.
32:34
Your internal signaling.
32:36
So you don't get that hunger drive.
32:40
But when food is sitting in your stomach,
32:42
have you ever been sick and you're like,
32:44
oh, my gosh,
32:45
that just has been sitting in my stomach
32:47
forever.
32:47
It's going to become this petri mess.
32:49
Yes, it's terrible.
32:51
So we're telling people, oh,
32:54
just because you're fat, right,
32:56
or high weight.
32:56
And I say that in a just an
32:59
objective way.
33:03
You should feel sick all the time and
33:05
you should not want to eat, right?
33:09
It's cruel.
33:11
It's heartbreaking to me.
33:13
So there's that.
33:15
There's also, you know, these one of the,
33:18
and you're,
33:19
I'm sure you know this and you recognize
33:22
the danger of this.
33:24
They leads to muscle wasting, right?
33:27
Muscle wasting.
33:30
that you're going to lower your basal
33:33
metabolic rate.
33:33
You're going to make yourself more prone
33:36
to weakness, frailty,
33:39
ending up in that nursing home.
33:42
Blindness is another con you know,
33:45
that's coming up, that's popping up.
33:46
I just heard that mentioned.
33:48
Um,
33:50
but the worst thing about not the worst
33:54
thing, I don't know if you,
33:55
there's so many bad things about them,
33:57
but, um,
33:59
In my kind of, in my realm,
34:01
what the worst thing is it's, it's like,
34:05
just like following food rules or plans or
34:09
diets, you're,
34:11
you're obliterating your signals, right?
34:15
Your, your internal signaling.
34:17
And some of the ways these drugs work,
34:19
they don't even know how it works on
34:22
suppressing appetite.
34:23
We don't even know what it's doing to
34:25
your brain.
34:26
or the rest of all this that can
34:31
guide you and tells you and gives you
34:35
those signals.
34:36
Because there's no long-term clinical
34:38
studies.
34:38
I mean,
34:38
we know that they study these things for
34:40
a very short period of time,
34:41
and then they're approved and they're out
34:42
on the market.
34:43
So we have no idea what these are
34:44
going to do with people three, four,
34:46
five years later,
34:47
what fallout is going to happen.
34:50
Right.
34:51
And, you know,
34:52
a lot of times when they do follow
34:54
up studies,
34:55
they only look for certain things.
34:57
So you can't find what you don't look
34:58
for either.
35:01
Yes.
35:02
And a lot of people don't realize that
35:03
they'll sometimes cherry pick the
35:05
subjects, too.
35:05
I mean,
35:06
there's my favorite study to mention,
35:09
the one on pain med.
35:11
And they actually chose people or they
35:14
kept people out of the study that didn't
35:16
respond to the med.
35:18
So talk about stacking the deck in your
35:21
favor.
35:22
And they still feel like a fifteen percent
35:24
effective rate,
35:25
even with stacking the deck in favor and
35:27
all kinds of high bias people work.
35:28
That's the best they could do.
35:30
So yeah.
35:31
Yeah.
35:32
So, and I do the clinical trials for,
35:35
um, uh, for the GLP ones, uh,
35:40
would go be, um,
35:42
some maglutide were the vast majority of
35:47
the patient population.
35:48
I think we're white women, you know,
35:55
which is not a good,
35:56
not a good cross section of no relation.
35:59
Hmm.
36:00
Yeah.
36:01
You're going to have different
36:03
socioeconomic levels.
36:04
You're going to have different everything.
36:07
Yeah.
36:08
And again, you know, they, they,
36:11
they totally take all control away from
36:15
you.
36:15
You develop no discernment for your needs
36:19
or your, you know,
36:22
learning to take care of yourself.
36:26
And I think they erode your,
36:27
your trust in yourself.
36:28
Right.
36:29
Yeah.
36:29
Oh, I need this.
36:31
I can't do it.
36:32
Signaling.
36:34
And then you go off the medication.
36:37
Then where are you?
36:38
You're a hot mess.
36:38
We don't know.
36:40
Yeah, we don't know.
36:41
Well, people, you know, people,
36:43
when they do come off the medication,
36:45
they just gain weight,
36:46
the weight right back.
36:49
And again,
36:50
we haven't even talked about set point
36:52
weight range today.
36:53
But
36:54
know when people experience especially a
36:57
rapid weight loss the more rapid the you
37:00
know your body again is like oh my
37:02
god we've been starving i gotta you know
37:08
that weight gain is just accelerated
37:10
because your body's trying to protect you
37:13
and it may even then get you to
37:16
gain weight even above where you how many
37:19
people say i lost you know
37:22
I lost weight and I gained it all
37:23
back.
37:24
And then some.
37:27
And like you said,
37:27
a lot of protecting you.
37:29
A lot of it has to do with
37:30
the fact that their metabolism has
37:31
changed,
37:32
especially if these medications are
37:33
causing them to lose muscle because muscle
37:36
requires more calories at rest.
37:38
So if you lose muscle,
37:40
you don't need as many calories.
37:41
Yeah.
37:41
So yeah.
37:42
Yeah.
37:46
Well, I think, um,
37:50
A really good point for you to share
37:53
here is I'd like for you to,
37:55
you know,
37:56
nutrition education in general has,
38:02
I'm not even sure how to word this
38:03
question.
38:04
So nutrition education,
38:07
depending on the resource,
38:10
how much does this, you know,
38:12
how much impact does this have on this
38:14
issue of people who are struggling and
38:16
feeling like they're broken and they can't
38:18
succeed?
38:24
I think a lot of nutrition education ends
38:27
up falling into dietary rules.
38:34
And, you know,
38:36
kind of that labeling of good foods,
38:39
bad foods.
38:41
This food kind of fueling fears, right?
38:45
Instead of informing choices, right?
38:48
Fears about you're going to, you know,
38:51
the worst fear, you're going to be fat.
38:53
the next fear you're gonna die right if
38:56
you're if you are fat or if you
38:58
don't lose the weight um and it's just
39:03
not true right now i'm not saying you
39:08
know everybody who is of high weight is
39:12
you know there's there's no dangers there
39:17
there are risks associated with high
39:19
weight but not
39:21
not to the extent that it is proposed,
39:26
right?
39:26
And again, well,
39:28
that's a whole other- Not everybody has to
39:30
be a perfect Twiggy model to be healthy.
39:34
Absolutely not.
39:36
Yeah.
39:37
Right.
39:38
There's a real interesting,
39:40
kind of because you mentioned Twiggy,
39:41
and I know we're kind of,
39:44
this is a little bit off topic,
39:46
but what's promoted as the ideal shape
39:51
and body type.
39:55
Oh, I can't get a good timeframe.
39:58
Before the late eighteen hundreds,
40:01
early nineteen hundreds,
40:03
it was more of a buxom woman,
40:05
fuller figured.
40:06
And a course that I took,
40:10
I found this was so interesting that as
40:13
I think one of the first things that
40:15
happened was women wanted to be able to
40:17
attend college and school and they
40:21
That, you know,
40:22
they earn the right to do that.
40:24
Well,
40:24
then the body image got more slender to
40:27
the Gibson girl, right?
40:29
Cinched in waist.
40:32
And then women wanted the right to vote.
40:35
And when they got that,
40:36
then it was the flappers,
40:39
like the more and more.
40:43
You know,
40:44
and this was the more and more like
40:47
things women went after,
40:49
rights women went after,
40:50
the smaller and smaller the model got.
40:54
It was super interesting if you watch the
40:56
timeline.
40:57
And down to one of the most recent
40:59
body types was because one of them was
41:01
like Twiggy and then like heroin chic.
41:05
I'm like, are we seriously?
41:07
Are we here?
41:08
Like, this can't be.
41:09
Wow.
41:12
Yeah.
41:12
Very sad.
41:13
Very sad.
41:14
Yeah.
41:15
So,
41:16
so what advice would you give if you
41:18
could give us, cause I know we're,
41:20
we're almost to the end of our time
41:21
here,
41:21
but if you could give us just a
41:23
little scenario,
41:24
like when you first start working with
41:27
someone, you know, what, what,
41:30
how do you get them?
41:32
And I know you can't teach it all
41:33
now cause you've got a whole course on
41:34
it.
41:36
But how do you get them to start
41:39
shifting from,
41:41
so that they can neurologically reset the
41:44
signals in their body because that's what
41:46
they're doing.
41:46
I mean, this is science.
41:48
This is not, Oh,
41:49
I'm just going to have a better mindset
41:51
and I'm just going to, you know,
41:52
this isn't all about,
41:53
I'm going to call what is not as
41:55
though it is.
41:55
And, and all of that, I mean,
41:58
because your brain knows that.
42:00
Right.
42:00
Right.
42:01
So, so you're,
42:02
you're essentially changing their
42:05
neurology, their, their signaling and,
42:08
But it starts with changing kind of it's
42:11
not just mindset, but it's their identity.
42:16
I think one of the most important things
42:20
and usually it comes up in very early
42:24
on in the coaching relationship.
42:30
Because, you know,
42:31
when people enter into coaching with me,
42:32
there's there's that sense of there's that
42:35
trust and they're there for support and
42:37
help and.
42:40
you know,
42:40
they share that they want to be tired
42:44
of fighting themselves.
42:45
They want to feel good about themselves.
42:48
And, you know,
42:50
that is kind of step one is where
42:52
we start trying to come to a place
42:55
of accepting, respecting,
42:59
and caring for and living in the body
43:02
that you're in now.
43:04
So, you know, we kind of practice like,
43:07
and still recognizing because the,
43:11
the desire for weight loss doesn't
43:13
disappear.
43:14
Right.
43:15
But honoring,
43:16
even though I may not like how I
43:21
look,
43:21
or even though I wish I was five
43:24
sizes smaller, I'm working on every day.
43:29
I'm working on taking care of myself
43:32
today.
43:33
Hmm.
43:34
Because you practice the mindset shifts,
43:37
whichever one we're working on.
43:39
You have to kind of acknowledge where you
43:42
are and validate how you feel and what
43:45
you're thinking.
43:47
But, but,
43:49
and it's like after the but is what
43:51
your brain remembers, right?
43:54
Okay.
43:54
Okay.
43:55
But, you know,
43:58
I'm learning to recognize myself.
44:00
when I'm hungry and I'm learning to feed
44:02
myself when I'm hungry a little bit more
44:04
every day.
44:05
Right.
44:05
So you sort of,
44:09
you honor where you are now,
44:11
but step into where you want to go.
44:13
If that makes sense.
44:15
Yes.
44:15
So it's shifts,
44:17
shifts about body image and then really
44:21
education around health and weight, um,
44:27
And again,
44:28
shifting that like a wide variety of site,
44:31
you know, I can be healthy.
44:33
I can be healthy as I can be
44:35
today in the body that I'm in today.
44:40
I like that because so many people,
44:42
if all they see is until they achieve
44:44
that,
44:45
that perfect image that they want to see
44:47
themselves at,
44:49
they're miserable until that happens.
44:52
And, and it's,
44:54
and being miserable doesn't,
44:56
create a place where your brain wants to
44:58
go back to.
45:00
Right.
45:00
Right.
45:01
And so people kind of think, Oh,
45:03
I just, I won't do this.
45:05
I won't exercise.
45:06
I won't, you know,
45:08
make myself different kinds of foods.
45:12
Yeah.
45:12
Being miserable is not motivating.
45:15
No, no.
45:16
And nor is being ashamed or being,
45:21
you know,
45:22
feeling sick to your stomach all day.
45:24
Like, you know,
45:27
Yeah.
45:28
Yeah.
45:28
Yeah.
45:28
So that's the piece that I want to
45:30
help people really get to is not,
45:34
you know,
45:35
kind of taking care of themselves out of
45:38
the excitement for feeling good.
45:42
Yeah.
45:43
Yeah.
45:43
So would you say,
45:45
and I know I'm kind of putting you
45:46
on the spot,
45:47
but would you say that this way you've
45:50
seen a lot of success with people who
45:54
getting out of that hating themselves or
45:56
feeling ashamed or feeling like they're
45:58
broken and starting to enjoy their life
46:03
now as they're on the journey instead of
46:07
waiting.
46:08
Right.
46:09
Right.
46:10
Yes.
46:12
And that is, to me,
46:14
I think that is,
46:16
that is like my biggest,
46:18
my most important benchmark is to really
46:23
help people
46:25
get over that self-loathing,
46:28
not get over it,
46:29
but to grow past that and to really
46:35
recognize and honor themselves.
46:38
And realizing that when they do,
46:44
they take better care of themselves,
46:46
they feel better,
46:48
and the benchmark isn't their weight,
46:50
right?
46:50
They may or may not lose weight.
46:54
But they will evolve to being their
46:59
healthiest self, their best self,
47:02
and being able to live their best life.
47:06
They'll stop the cycling, losing, gaining,
47:08
losing, gaining,
47:09
which is very dangerous medically,
47:11
health-wise.
47:14
And their chemical responses are going to
47:19
be efficient, right?
47:21
when they eat.
47:22
So they're going to be a lot happier.
47:24
I mean, it just seems like,
47:26
what am I doing happening?
47:29
Yeah.
47:29
When you, you know,
47:30
think when you go somewhere and, you know,
47:35
whether it's you're somewhere on a trip
47:39
and someone is taking care of you or,
47:41
or whether you go home, right.
47:45
And someone takes care of you and meets
47:48
your needs and,
47:50
you know, loves you.
47:51
How do you, like, that feels good.
47:54
That's so good for you.
47:56
And so this is a way of doing
48:00
that for yourself.
48:03
I love it.
48:04
I love it.
48:04
Yeah.
48:05
I just completed a,
48:06
I did a beta program in my academy
48:07
and,
48:08
and what I saw with the people who
48:12
joined it,
48:13
it was sort of a test pilots program
48:17
and,
48:18
It really was who they became and the
48:23
different mindset about everything
48:26
because, yeah,
48:27
they did have all these issues going on
48:29
and some of them made great gains in
48:31
those issues,
48:32
but they had a lot of bumps in
48:33
the road.
48:35
And because they were supported and
48:37
encouraged through those bumps in the
48:39
road, which is what you do,
48:42
that's how they end up getting across the
48:44
finish line of...
48:46
you know,
48:46
completing a program and having the tools
48:50
and the things that they know how to
48:52
do,
48:53
which is a lot better than where they
48:55
were when they started.
48:56
So,
48:57
and they learn how to use those tools,
49:00
like in your beta program or in my
49:03
coaching program, you know,
49:04
you learn how to use the information and
49:07
the tools.
49:09
And in this case, becoming, as I said,
49:11
you become more attuned to so many things,
49:14
right?
49:14
And you,
49:16
you learn to not just follow somebody
49:19
else's rules, which can,
49:23
and you just get your best results.
49:26
Yeah, yeah.
49:27
And I have found,
49:28
and we'll kind of end with this,
49:30
but I have found when I talk with
49:33
someone who's so concerned about doing
49:36
everything right,
49:40
they tend to be the highest anxiety
49:44
people.
49:45
I mean,
49:45
they're living in that run from the bear
49:47
mode.
49:47
They're living in that sympathetic nervous
49:50
system mode because they're afraid, oh,
49:51
if I don't eat the perfect type of
49:53
vinegar and I don't make sure I've got
49:55
the exact calories on my plate at every
49:57
meal and I don't do this and I
49:59
don't do that and, oh,
50:00
I got to cut the broccoli and wait
50:02
fifteen minutes before I can eat it
50:03
because the latest study says that it's
50:05
going to change the chemical makeup of the
50:07
broccoli and I'm going to get more out
50:09
of it when I eat it.
50:09
I mean, it's absolute insanity.
50:13
And unfortunately,
50:15
what happens is these people are reading
50:17
everything.
50:17
They're watching everything.
50:19
And they're so overwhelmed with all of
50:21
that information.
50:22
There's no way you can put it all
50:24
into practice.
50:25
And a lot of the times,
50:26
a lot of that information isn't necessary
50:28
to put into practice.
50:31
you know,
50:31
you can really simplify your life.
50:34
And so that's basically what you're doing
50:37
for these people.
50:38
You're simplifying it for them.
50:40
And, you know,
50:42
you mentioned that sympathetic response,
50:45
you know,
50:45
people living in that sympathetic
50:47
response.
50:47
And there's a, you know,
50:48
a lot of that
50:51
over analyzing and thinking about food and
50:55
what's what it is and what you're but
50:57
that when you're in that sympathetic
50:59
response, you can be eating the best,
51:03
like neutral, not best,
51:05
the most nutrient dense,
51:07
food full of antioxidants and vitamins and
51:12
minerals and
51:15
but your absorption is going to be
51:18
affected.
51:19
And that cortisol response is going to
51:23
still exert negative influences on your
51:25
health, right?
51:26
And so that sense of peace and calm
51:33
is very necessary for optimal health and
51:37
for optimal weight and all of it.
51:40
Yeah.
51:40
And being stressed, of course,
51:41
cortisol deposits fat around the trunk.
51:44
Fat.
51:46
So talking about the opposite of what
51:47
you're looking for.
51:48
Exactly opposite of what you're trying to
51:51
do.
51:51
You know,
51:52
it affects your short-term memory because
51:53
it impacts your hippocampus.
51:54
I mean, it just does so many,
51:56
it does disrupt the digestive process
51:58
because you're not going to,
52:00
you're not going to digest when you're
52:01
running from a bear.
52:02
So you're not going to absorb.
52:03
You're right.
52:04
Yeah.
52:05
So it's,
52:07
I love what you do because you're,
52:11
you're empowering people to, to,
52:15
be in this space that teaches them how
52:22
to live a happy life.
52:26
I mean,
52:27
essentially that's what you're doing.
52:28
You're restoring the joy in people's
52:30
lives.
52:31
And that's, that's a beautiful thing.
52:34
So.
52:35
Yeah.
52:36
Thank you.
52:38
I think of it as, you know,
52:39
it's about attuned eating,
52:42
but it really is attuned living.
52:46
Yeah.
52:46
Yeah.
52:47
As you often say, living your best life.
52:50
Yes.
52:51
Yeah.
52:51
Yes.
52:51
All right.
52:53
Well, thank you so much for being here.
52:56
And I know we're going to have information
52:58
where people can, you know,
52:59
look at your programs and access your
53:02
website and that kind of thing.
53:04
And I would strongly encourage people to
53:06
even just connect with you for a brief
53:07
conversation,
53:09
get their questions answered and decide if
53:11
this is for them.
53:12
Yeah.
53:14
I encourage anybody sign up for the
53:16
newsletter, book a connection call.
53:18
I do have a new group starting on
53:21
March.
53:21
Okay.
53:23
Thursday evening.
53:24
So, you know,
53:28
book a connection call if you're like,
53:29
I don't know.
53:32
I need to learn more.
53:35
And if you're on the newsletter list,
53:36
you'll get information about that as well.
53:40
And it's an excellent newsletter.
53:41
I mean, it's not a, you know,
53:44
It's, it's,
53:45
it's packed with good information,
53:48
but it doesn't take you all weekend to
53:49
read it.
53:50
So people can take, you know,
53:51
and learn things.
53:52
And yeah.
53:54
Thank you so much.
53:56
Thank you.
53:56
It was so nice to chat with you
53:58
and catch up a little bit.
54:01
We're going to have to connect and have
54:03
a cup of tea together.
54:04
Yes.
54:05
Yes.
54:06
Thank you everybody for listening and have
54:09
a great day.
54:10
Bye guys.