Latest / Mortgage Marketing Radio / Selling Secrets from Tony Robbins VP of Sales, Gene McNaughton

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Selling Secrets from Tony Robbins VP of Sales, Gene McNaughton · Mortgage Marketing Radio

• 0:00
  In today's highly competitive mortgage industry, building profitable relationships with
• 0:04
  the real estate agents is essential for success.
• 0:06
  However, finding effective ways to secure agent relationships can be a challenge.
• 0:11
  With so many mortgage loan originators vying for the attention of real estate agents, it
• 0:15
  can be difficult to stand out and establish meaningful connections.
• 0:20
  Our new case study featuring loan officer Chris Cogill is a must-read.
• 0:25
  Chris has closed a remarkable 36 million in funded loans from agent referrals.
• 0:31
  And in this case study, he shares his proven strategies for building strong relationships
• 0:34
  with real estate agents and leveraging those relationships to drive more business.
• 0:39
  To get your hands on this resource, head over to LOKestudy.com and download your free copy
• 0:45
  of the case study today.
• 0:47
  You'll find actionable insights and practical tips that Chris used to close 36 million
• 0:52
  in funded loans from agent referrals and how you can, too.
• 0:56
  Don't miss out.
• 0:57
  Go check it out right now.
• 0:58
  Visit LOKestudy.com and download your free copy today.
• 1:03
  Hey listeners, it's Jeff Zimper.
• 1:11
  Hello, hello, hello, hello, they're boys and girls.
• 1:14
  How are you doing today?
• 1:15
  I hope you're enjoying yourself wherever you're at, wherever you happen to be tuning in
• 1:18
  and listening to this and if I hadn't told you how much I care, how much I appreciate
• 1:24
  you.
• 1:25
  I so appreciate you tuning in and listening to this podcast.
• 1:27
  If you're here listening again, it's because you found the fine value and that's what I love
• 1:32
  the most is bringing value to you by fellow Padre, the Ombre and sisters as well, brothers
• 1:40
  and sisters.
• 1:41
  Can we unite?
• 1:42
  What am I doing?
• 1:43
  I don't know.
• 1:44
  I'm just random.
• 1:45
  I'm excited to bring you this episode before I cut to the episode, the show, as they say,
• 1:52
  up a quick reminder for you guys.
• 1:54
  Once again, jump into our Facebook group or podcast listeners, only mortgage marketing
• 1:59
  radio on Facebook.
• 2:00
  Just go to Facebook, type it in, the search bar, mortgage marketing radio, or you can
• 2:05
  go to Facebook.com or slash groups, forward slash mortgage marketing radio, that's how
• 2:12
  you get there.
• 2:13
  The reason why I want to check that out is because if you like the content you hear or
• 2:17
  see here, there's going to be more there, good stuff coming in the way of additional trainings
• 2:22
  and things to help you be a modern mortgage originator and this whole concept of a hybrid
• 2:27
  originator, hybrid loan officer, which for me, just so you know, to clarify what I mean,
• 2:32
  my hybrid loan officer, what I mean by that is a loan officer who lives in two worlds,
• 2:39
  one who lives in the quote, old school world, if you will, of developing referral relationships,
• 2:44
  past client data, based local community events, things like that, but also bridging the
• 2:50
  old with the new, the modern with the more traditional, the hybrid loan officer is also
• 2:54
  somebody who's leveraging social media, online platforms, video, maybe doing some paid ads
• 3:00
  and traffic and things like that.
• 3:02
  That is the future of the loan officer and that's who I speak to and hope that you are
• 3:06
  in that camp as well.
• 3:07
  Hopefully you can go that we're helping you to cover both bases there and we're going
• 3:11
  to do that more in the group over there on Facebook, or you can check it out.
• 3:19
  Also, if you need help, if somebody said to you and said, look, would you like to never
• 3:25
  have to call agents again, never have to taste real estate agents, never wonder where
• 3:30
  your next purchase deal is coming from.
• 3:32
  Would you like a predictable system that delivers agent relationships, referrals and conversations
• 3:38
  at scale every single month on a silver platter delivered to you?
• 3:43
  Turnkey, would you want, if you do, we offer that, we offer that through our Morgan
• 3:49
  Marketing Pro membership, which you can go check out, mortgage marketing.pro, there
• 3:53
  will be a link in the show notes, watch a brief video that I put up, which is all about
• 3:56
  how do you get noticed and get agent conversations and referrals and today's noisy, crazy
• 4:02
  world.
• 4:03
  Listen, you know that the refis are dropping off in the second half of this year.
• 4:07
  Are you preparing for that?
• 4:09
  Are you looking not where the puck is, but where the puck is going?
• 4:12
  That's where it's going.
• 4:13
  So you want to shore up your purchase business, you want to grow your business, you want
• 4:16
  to add referral partners, agents to your bus, how do you reach them, how do you get contact
• 4:19
  them?
• 4:20
  There's a hundred different ways to do that.
• 4:22
  I'm proposing you check out the most predictable systematic way to do that at scale that puts
• 4:28
  you in control, it creates tremendous value and income for you, mortgage marketing.pro,
• 4:33
  check it out.
• 4:34
  Okay.
• 4:36
  This week's show.
• 4:37
  All right.
• 4:38
  So this guest that I have on, first of all, I want to thank my friend Tony Juarez.
• 4:43
  If you're listening, thanks for introducing me to Gene.
• 4:46
  And this is a conversation that it's a more long form conversation.
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  I think we go about an hour on this and that's because, you know, you ever meet somebody
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  that's got so much wisdom and background and knowledge and it's done so many things.
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  You just want to keep the conversation going.
• 5:01
  And as you can tell with the podcast is I approach many of my conversations in a organic
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  way.
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  I may have some bullet points, which I do right here, but then we just look at the conversation
• 5:11
  flow.
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  And so my special guest for this episode is a gentleman named Gene McNaughton.
• 5:17
  And Gene is a business consultant, he's the president of growth smart consulting.
• 5:22
  And what he does is help executive leadership teams grow sales, right?
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  Get efficiencies drive top line revenue growth.
• 5:29
  You may be listening to that and think, oh, that's not me.
• 5:32
  However, what Gene is great at is growing sales.
• 5:39
  He's great at structuring a conversation framework.
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  He's great at identifying the patterns of success in sales.
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  He's great at knowing what's the difference that makes the difference.
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  He's great at average and top performers.
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  Gene has an amazing background.
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  We have some similarities.
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  Gene was the global vice president of sales for Tony Robbins from 2004 to 2007.
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  Gene also was the president at Chet Holmes International, which some of you may be familiar
• 6:10
  with Chet Holmes.
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  Some of you may not Chet Holmes wrote a incredible book called The Ultimate Sales Machine years
• 6:16
  ago.
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  I suggest you get that.
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  It's one of the best sales books ever written.
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  And so Gene has worked, oh, by the way, Gene also took Gateway Computers.
• 6:27
  You guys remember Gateway Computers?
• 6:29
  Was there for their rapid growth that scaled up to $11 billion in revenue?
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  And Gene was there.
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  Gene helped make that happen with the sales strategies that he put together as I've just described
• 6:39
  for you.
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  Gene has a book, which we're going to put links in the show notes that you should check
• 6:44
  out.
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  And this is the book is your ultimate guide to finding, keeping, and growing accounts.
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  And why I think this conversation with Gene is very relevant for you.
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  And by the way, stick with the conversation to the end.
• 6:58
  Because we bounce around a little bit, but we always bring it back full circle into how
• 7:02
  you can apply it to your life in sales and prospecting.
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  And what is your conversation framework?
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  What are the first words that come out of your mouth when you speak to a client or a
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  full partner?
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  How do you structure your sales meetings with a full partner's clients, right, etc, etc?
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  So I think there's a lot of wisdom that you're going to take from this and concepts that
• 7:24
  we're talking about.
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  That experience does not equal effectiveness.
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  And here's a great one.
• 7:28
  I love this one as well.
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  I wrote this down, premium price needs a premium system, story, and process.
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  Let me see it again.
• 7:39
  Premium price needs a premium process and story.
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  What does that mean?
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  Well, it means one of the biggest pushbacks you get is interest rate.
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  What's your rate?
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  What's your rate?
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  I can find it a quarter or less.
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  An eighth less.
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  Well, here's the thing.
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  You don't get charged a premium if your process doesn't match a premium price.
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  If you don't have a story that supports the premium price.
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  So we're going to talk a lot about that.
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  And Gene's got some amazing background and stories.
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  And so I'm just thrilled to bring it to you.
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  And I hope you like this conversation as much as I have.
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  I mean, this guy's on a lot.
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  He's interviewed all the sharp-pang people, right?
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  Kevin O'Leary, Damon John, on and on.
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  So I think you can learn a lot from him.
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  And his time, he spent 25 years generating top results for
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  Fortune 500 companies spending time as Tony Robbins, president, so on.
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  So I hope you enjoy this show.
• 8:29
  Let's get into this week's show.
• 8:31
  Gene, welcome to the show.
• 8:33
  Hey, man.
• 8:34
  Awesome to be here, Jeff.
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  We've been working, what, 18 months to get this little time-sot connected.
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  So here we are.
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  Let's rock and roll.
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  Let's add value.
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  All right, let's make the best of it.
• 8:43
  So the listeners heard the formal interview or intro of you,
• 8:48
  you know, as they tuned into this episode.
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  But I prefer to you to give your background, or if you will,
• 8:54
  because you've got quite a diverse background.
• 8:56
  We share some stories and, you know, who we've worked with in the past.
• 8:58
  But give it to the summary.
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  Who's Gene McNaught and what's y'all about?
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  What has he done?
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  Here's a short story.
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  I was born in a small town in Iowa,
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  so City, Iowa, I'm the youngest of six kids.
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  I grew up with five sisters in a small house,
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  so you learn some techniques and dealing with females
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  and sharing one bathroom.
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  Whole other episode we can do on that.
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  And I'm still working on the process.
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  Trust me.
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  Had a great upbringing from my parents and went to high school.
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  I was an athlete.
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  I was able to go to, fortunately, go to college in my same little hometown
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  in Sioux City, Iowa at Morningside College and play football there.
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  It was my only avenue to be able to go to college.
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  I was the first one to graduate from college
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  or even go to college in my family.
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  And shortly after I graduated college,
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  while I was in college,
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  this little computer company was building up in Sioux City
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  called Gateway 2000 Computers.
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  And while in college they were teaching you to go get a,
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  you know, get your degree, go get a job.
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  And, you know, I wanted to be a stockbroker.
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  I wanted to be in the financial world.
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  And I went and got my licenses right after I got out of college
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  and thought I was going to be a financial investment advisor.
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  What I didn't really realize is that you're really not going to be
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  at financially advising anybody.
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  You're going to be making cold calls and scheduling appointments
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  for the veteran brokers.
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  So I had maxed out my one credit card on buying three suits.
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  And I was sitting in a dingy little office
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  making 250 to 300 cold calls a day out of the phone book.
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  In the meantime, all my buddies that had gone to work
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  at this computer company were love and life.
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  And they were buying jet skis and they were wearing jeans to work.
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  Life was amazing and I'm frigging miserable.
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  And I finally just said, okay, I got it.
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  I got to check this out.
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  And fortunately, it was the very, very early stages of the company
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  and I got hired for the night shift selling computers over the phone.
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  And I quickly fell in love with it.
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  One of the things I fell in love with was something
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  I'd never heard of before, which was called direct response marketing,
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  which when I got out of training, I sat down in my cubicle
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  and I said, okay, who do I call?
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  Where's my list or is there a phone book?
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  Well, how do I sell these computers?
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  Because they never taught that in training.
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  They taught, here's how a computer works.
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  Here's on a motherboard and a hard drive
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  and all the technical training.
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  Somebody goes, no, no, no, you don't call anybody.
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  I'm like, why do you make sales?
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  They said, they called you.
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  I'm like, what are you talking about?
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  Yeah, we advertise in these magazines.
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  And I remember they're going, look,
• 11:26
  there's a call coming into your phone right now.
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  And I'm like, hello, welcome to Gateway.
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  My name's Gene.
• 11:32
  And every once in a while in life,
• 11:35
  and this is something everybody needs to get,
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  is that there will be a constant series
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  of windows of opportunities that open for you.
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  Fortunately, most people, even when they see
• 11:44
  and sense the opportunity, they don't take advantage of it.
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  And my dad had always taught me, you know,
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  they're going to meet little windows that open up.
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  Maybe it's somebody you meet or the girl you want to date
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  or a job that you want to get,
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  but when that window opens, you've got to run through it.
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  And I quickly was like, oh my gosh.
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  In those days, Jeff, you know, one out of four calls,
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  we're not somebody shopping,
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  is people calling to say, yes,
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  I'd like to buy this computer on page 76
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  of the computer shop or magazine.
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  I'm like, okay, like I didn't,
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  when you go from one extreme of pure cold calls,
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  no, think about calling out of the phone book,
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  how many times you get hung up on or yelled out,
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  you know, my boss thought, well,
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  we've got to call people when they're home.
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  So we'll call between 5.30 and 7.30 at night,
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  or we'll call on Saturdays, we'll call on Friday nights.
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  So I go to this, this land of opportunity.
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  And fortunately, I was in the right place at the right time.
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  I had good work ethic.
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  And I was just, I could see it.
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  And I just went all in.
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  I bought in.
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  I learned as much as I could about computers
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  and time management and sales techniques.
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  I started reading books.
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  I read the book, how to win friends and influence people
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  in the Polian Hill, you remember that one, right?
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  But once I read this first book,
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  I'm like, oh my God, the answers are in there.
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  All these things that I'm supposed to be expected
• 13:07
  to know at 22 years old, the answers are in these books.
• 13:11
  I didn't learn that stuff in college.
• 13:15
  And I'm not by any way, shape and form.
• 13:17
  I am so grateful for the college degree
• 13:20
  and the school that I went to.
• 13:22
  But I didn't learn these people skills.
• 13:24
  I didn't learn influence and persuasion.
• 13:27
  I didn't learn about goal setting.
• 13:29
  Now, I knew about goal setting from sports,
• 13:31
  but not as it applied to my life,
• 13:34
  not as it applied to creating the vision
• 13:37
  for the ultimate future and everything went perfect.
• 13:40
  What would it look like?
• 13:41
  I was learning that in the books.
• 13:43
  Think and grow rich.
• 13:45
  How to win friends and influence people.
• 13:47
  Then I got into the Tommy Hopkins work.
• 13:51
  Masters of closing, right?
• 13:53
  And then it just went nuts from there.
• 13:56
  I got turned on to a guy named Jim Rohn.
• 13:58
  I know who Jim Rohn is.
• 13:59
  Not the sports guy, the personal development guy.
• 14:03
  And that led me to start studying Tony Robbins' work.
• 14:07
  As I was investing in myself,
• 14:10
  and in those days, it was books or tapes.
• 14:12
  That's those were your options.
• 14:13
  CDs were still new and a little, you know,
• 14:17
  not quite there.
• 14:18
  And certainly there was no cell phones or anything like that.
• 14:20
  I would listen to these tapes.
• 14:23
  While I was driving in the car,
• 14:24
  I would, I had one of those little boom boxes
• 14:27
  that when you play to tape at the end of it,
• 14:29
  it would go click click.
• 14:30
  And then it would play the other side
• 14:32
  and it would just keep playing all night.
• 14:34
  Because I learned from Brian Tracy,
• 14:36
  I don't know whether this is true or not,
• 14:37
  but even when you're not listening to something,
• 14:41
  subconsciously it's soaking into your brain.
• 14:44
  So I thought, okay,
• 14:45
  what a better time to do that than eight hours of sleep
• 14:48
  or seven hours of sleep.
• 14:50
  I started listening to Zig, Ziggler, Jim Rohn,
• 14:55
  Tony Robbins.
• 14:57
  And here's what was interesting, Jeff.
• 14:58
  While I'm at this little company
• 15:00
  that suddenly is starting to get very popular,
• 15:02
  the computer revolution hit us in 1991, 1990 through two,
• 15:07
  where suddenly people at home realize
• 15:09
  that I can have a computer in my house.
• 15:13
  So right place, right time, window of opportunity,
• 15:17
  I invest in myself.
• 15:18
  I work as hard on myself as I do on my day job
• 15:21
  and things start to radically accelerate.
• 15:24
  So this company is taking off.
• 15:26
  I'm working, I was single at the time.
• 15:29
  I recognized the opportunity.
• 15:30
  I could work many hours, 50, 60 hours a week
• 15:34
  and I loved it.
• 15:35
  It wasn't like I had to get myself out of bed
• 15:38
  to get in there and make a paycheck.
• 15:40
  I saw the opportunity.
• 15:42
  And as the company grew, I grew,
• 15:45
  got moved into management.
• 15:47
  Then I realized that as I was taking on the new hires
• 15:50
  that would come out of training,
• 15:51
  that none of them were taught how to sell.
• 15:53
  So I would say, okay, you got your five days
• 15:56
  of technology training.
• 15:57
  Now you're gonna go,
• 15:58
  we, I didn't call it lunch and learns in those days,
• 16:02
  but we worked the 1 PM to 10 PM shifts.
• 16:04
  So I said, bring your dinner in,
• 16:06
  or go grab a sandwich, whatever.
• 16:08
  And for an hour, I'm gonna teach you
• 16:10
  the seven steps of selling.
• 16:11
  Now I had just built this, step one is mindset.
• 16:15
  We gotta set goals.
• 16:16
  You gotta have the mindset of success.
• 16:17
  Step two is you gotta establish rapport.
• 16:20
  Step three, you gotta ask questions.
• 16:21
  Step four, you gotta present.
• 16:23
  Step five, you gotta ask for the business.
• 16:25
  Step six, you gotta be prepared for the,
• 16:28
  four or five, six objections you're gonna get
• 16:30
  and step seven, you gotta have to have a great follow up.
• 16:33
  And part of that would be referral program.
• 16:35
  And I taught it over and over again.
• 16:38
  And lo and behold, what we started finding
• 16:40
  was this group of new hires.
• 16:42
  Many of them would outperform people
• 16:44
  that had been selling on the phones for two, three,
• 16:46
  and four years.
• 16:48
  And the VP said, what's going on here?
• 16:51
  And I said, look, I'm just teaching this stuff,
• 16:53
  what I used to do on the phones.
• 16:55
  And he said, I need you to go teach that to everybody.
• 16:58
  Now by the time I had gotten into management
• 17:00
  and had three months of management under my belt,
• 17:03
  now we had 120, 150 sales people selling on the floor
• 17:07
  in a call center in cubicles.
• 17:09
  In North Sue City, South Dakota,
• 17:12
  he said, I want you to take that.
• 17:14
  And if you wanna go to some seminars,
• 17:15
  you can go to some seminars,
• 17:17
  but I want you to create a sales training
• 17:19
  part of our business.
• 17:20
  And I'm like, okay, I had never been a public speaker
• 17:23
  anything like that.
• 17:25
  I just took the common principles.
• 17:26
  And then, you know, the window of opportunity,
• 17:29
  the window of fate, you know, what do they say Jeff?
• 17:31
  You set your targets in the universe,
• 17:33
  conspires to drop these little nuggets.
• 17:37
  Exactly.
• 17:38
  And you're favored.
• 17:39
  A facts came in randomly.
• 17:42
  Now we're on a huge call center floor.
• 17:45
  And it was an opportunity to go see a seminar
• 17:48
  on the art of sales by Tom Hopkins.
• 17:52
  And somebody knew I was, you know,
• 17:53
  trying to do the sales training manual.
• 17:55
  Like, when I had never seen a manual
• 17:58
  and there was no Microsoft word back then.
• 18:02
  There was word processing programs,
• 18:04
  but there was no word like the stuff we have now.
• 18:06
  There was no voice to text, right?
• 18:09
  It's me trying to hack away at it.
• 18:11
  And I take it to the boss.
• 18:12
  And fortunately, she said yes.
• 18:14
  And in fact, she took herself,
• 18:17
  one of the other senior managers
• 18:19
  and another director of sales.
• 18:21
  And we all went to see a seminar.
• 18:23
  Tom Hopkins in New Orleans.
• 18:25
  And I remember walking in there.
• 18:27
  And there must have been 3,000 people.
• 18:29
  They're pretty good, you know, that's good crowd.
• 18:32
  He came out and within minutes,
• 18:35
  I was hanging on every word, laughing,
• 18:37
  like he was entertaining, he was funny,
• 18:39
  he was good looking.
• 18:41
  Now, I was in the nosebleed section.
• 18:43
  I mean, truth be told, we didn't get front row seats.
• 18:45
  But I just, from that very second,
• 18:48
  I was like, that's what I want to do.
• 18:52
  Well, that's what I want to do.
• 18:54
  I want to be the teacher, presenting teaching.
• 18:59
  Yeah, I mean, it was like, you know, he was part comedian.
• 19:02
  He was part entertainer, the sequences and the processes.
• 19:06
  And in those days, it was, you know, sounds good, doesn't it?
• 19:09
  You know, understanding what a trial close is.
• 19:11
  Understanding steps to building rapport.
• 19:15
  Standing the right questions in the right order.
• 19:18
  Really going through a real life goal setting program.
• 19:20
  I'd never done that.
• 19:23
  And that catapulted everything.
• 19:27
  Ironically, I must have got put into some database,
• 19:29
  which I didn't know what a database was,
• 19:31
  but two months later, facts comes in
• 19:34
  from the Ziggs Ziggler Corporation.
• 19:36
  Oh, okay, I got it.
• 19:37
  Yep.
• 19:38
  Have you going to these events and learning,
• 19:42
  developing skills you're watching Ziggs present?
• 19:44
  You're like, oh, he's amazing.
• 19:46
  Well, better yet, it was an invitation to a seminar
• 19:50
  called See You At The Top.
• 19:53
  And it was a three day goal setting workshop.
• 19:56
  Now, I had realized by that stage,
• 19:58
  just being an athlete and, you know,
• 20:00
  to getting a scholarship, all the things,
• 20:03
  I knew there was some this power in setting goals,
• 20:07
  laying out in advance what it is you want to accomplish,
• 20:10
  writing it down, looking at it every day,
• 20:12
  but I didn't know the wisdom behind it.
• 20:15
  And again, I convinced my boss, I'm like,
• 20:17
  this is the other, you remember you said,
• 20:18
  I could go to a seminar.
• 20:19
  This is in Carrollton, Texas.
• 20:20
  Can I go?
• 20:22
  He said yes.
• 20:23
  The senior manager said yes.
• 20:25
  So I go down to Texas by myself.
• 20:27
  And I'm next to him and I'm preparing for this
• 20:30
  and I get a phone call.
• 20:32
  Jeff, this is where I learned the art of the cross cell
• 20:34
  or the up cell.
• 20:37
  And the call was from Matt.
• 20:38
  This is Katie from the Zig Ziglar headquarters.
• 20:40
  She said, you're coming to the seminar
• 20:42
  and I wanted to give you a heads up
• 20:44
  that Zig is teaching a class on public speaking,
• 20:47
  a very next day when your seminar ends.
• 20:50
  I have a question for you.
• 20:51
  Is public speaking something that's important to you?
• 20:54
  And I went, well, I'm gonna be doing sales training.
• 20:57
  This is exactly, you need this.
• 20:59
  How much training do you have?
• 21:00
  I've never been trained in speaking.
• 21:04
  And then I got introduced to the up cell and cross cell
• 21:07
  and I go back to my boss.
• 21:08
  He goes, well, you're gonna be here anyway.
• 21:09
  You're coming a long ways from South Dakota.
• 21:12
  We had moved across the border.
• 21:14
  And my boss said yes.
• 21:16
  I went there for the goal setting seminar.
• 21:17
  It was called Born to Win is what it was called.
• 21:20
  And I still have my seminar notes.
• 21:22
  1993 of what my dreams and aspirations were then
• 21:27
  from a small town.
• 21:29
  The secondary course on how to speak in public,
• 21:33
  I took it because I wanted to be comfortable speaking
• 21:35
  in front of training classes of 10 people, maybe 12,
• 21:39
  maybe 20 tops.
• 21:42
  Little did I know that that seminar is what catapulted
• 21:47
  everything to allow me to do some pretty cool things
• 21:51
  that you've covered in the bio,
• 21:52
  including becoming the opening speaker for Tony Robbins
• 21:56
  on the biggest stages.
• 21:58
  Traveling Australia with Donald Trump
• 22:00
  and Robert Kiyosaki and Tony Robbins and being the,
• 22:03
  I mean, who would have imagined that small town gene,
• 22:07
  McNaughton, buddy McNaughton is what they called me there,
• 22:11
  would end up being the guy kicking off these mega seminars
• 22:15
  and being shoulder to shoulder with some of the giants.
• 22:18
  It all came.
• 22:19
  The reason I say that, Jeff, not to try to brag
• 22:22
  or impress anybody, but it all came
• 22:23
  because I took advantage of the opportunity.
• 22:26
  I did the work.
• 22:28
  I went to find who I thought was the very best in the world.
• 22:31
  And in those days arguably Ziegler, Tom Hopkins,
• 22:35
  Tony Robbins was still was was was big.
• 22:38
  The infomercials had just started.
• 22:40
  So he was in the beginning of his big, big fame.
• 22:44
  And I listened to these people and I did the work.
• 22:47
  I did the workbooks.
• 22:49
  I did the incantations or the affirmations
• 22:53
  as they were called before Tony changed it to incantations.
• 22:56
  I did all the little things that, frankly,
• 22:59
  a lot of people during those days were laughing at me for,
• 23:02
  oh, it's Mr. Motivation.
• 23:04
  Oh, Gene's reading a motivation book.
• 23:06
  There we go, getting motivated, Gene.
• 23:09
  And I just ate it because I knew that I knew where I was going.
• 23:15
  You know, when I hear your story like that,
• 23:16
  by the way, thank you for sharing that.
• 23:18
  You had used a couple of words like small town boy or whatever,
• 23:22
  but you also use this word vision.
• 23:23
  So I'm curious is because it's not small town like you,
• 23:28
  but originally from kind of New England.
• 23:29
  And you know, there's a certain mindsets of certain areas
• 23:32
  of the country, you know, like small town.
• 23:34
  Might have a small town mindset.
• 23:36
  And I'm curious, what do you think?
• 23:38
  Like I don't know where your siblings are,
• 23:40
  but like if you can do a comparison to what gave you your vision?
• 23:44
  Why, why, what do you think in you,
• 23:46
  you're upbringing or whatever, like rated that bigger?
• 23:48
  Hey, I can leave that.
• 23:49
  I can be something more.
• 23:51
  You know what I mean?
• 23:52
  Yeah, I had five sisters and they were all older than me.
• 23:56
  I have one of my sisters, Debbie, she was 18 when I was born.
• 24:01
  And I was like, I might as well have been her child.
• 24:04
  She took me everywhere she went.
• 24:05
  And I was like her pride and joy as she was 18, 1920
• 24:09
  in that, you know, prime time of age.
• 24:12
  And she was somebody along with my mom
• 24:14
  that just always believed in me.
• 24:17
  Oh, like you could say I was even spoiled,
• 24:20
  not with things and money and stuff
• 24:22
  because we didn't have that.
• 24:23
  But in terms of love and care
• 24:26
  and you can do anything you set your mind to
• 24:28
  and you know, I wanted to be a rock and roll singer
• 24:31
  that didn't go anywhere.
• 24:33
  But I found a way to entertain them through sports.
• 24:37
  And I had a knack for, not that I was a great athlete,
• 24:40
  but I had a knack for getting pretty good at sports
• 24:44
  like baseball and football, basketball.
• 24:47
  And I knew that they would come to my,
• 24:48
  they would be at every single game.
• 24:49
  We're in a small town.
• 24:50
  It's not like they had a drive, you know,
• 24:52
  10 minutes you're at any field you wanna be at.
• 24:55
  And this constant belief of an overindulgence
• 25:01
  of love and attention, almost an overindulgence
• 25:05
  of doing good and being good
• 25:10
  and wanting to earn more of that.
• 25:13
  Yeah, positive feedback loop, you know.
• 25:16
  What was it said?
• 25:17
  Your kids will behave in the way they repeatedly
• 25:21
  hear from you or something.
• 25:22
  I heard a great saying was, you know,
• 25:25
  the more you're positively affirming to others.
• 25:27
  I had so much of that.
• 25:30
  And I loved, I'd still love my city.
• 25:32
  I'm booking tickets to go back to Sioux City.
• 25:34
  I go back to the college homecoming
• 25:36
  and I go back to the high school.
• 25:38
  I love it so much.
• 25:39
  I live in California now, but home, that's always home.
• 25:43
  And it wasn't, you know, I didn't have a chip on my shoulder.
• 25:46
  I did, I have always in my life felt like an underdog.
• 25:48
  Like I had to outwork people.
• 25:50
  I felt like in good, better and different,
• 25:54
  my wiring is, you know, I can outwork.
• 25:56
  I may not have the God-given talent.
• 25:59
  I didn't have God-given athletic skills.
• 26:02
  I wasn't born big or fast or unusually muscular.
• 26:06
  And some people are biology or whatever that is.
• 26:10
  But I always had this chip on my shoulder underdog
• 26:13
  that I can read more, I can listen more,
• 26:18
  I can seek mentors more.
• 26:20
  I can, my dad at 13 years old said,
• 26:25
  you see those guys that you admire,
• 26:27
  and they were playing high school.
• 26:29
  Go watch what they do when they're not on the court.
• 26:32
  Watch how they work out and watch, how they behave.
• 26:36
  He didn't use the word modeling like you and I know it, Jeff.
• 26:39
  He said, do what they do.
• 26:40
  All right.
• 26:42
  Well, then if they've applied themselves
• 26:44
  in a more direct, deliberate way, you know,
• 26:47
  and obviously their commitment level is higher.
• 26:49
  And we see that in the sales space too.
• 26:51
  A lot of sales people, as you well know, wing it, right?
• 26:54
  Don't have like to reference your book,
• 26:56
  which, you know, we'll put links in the show notes
• 26:58
  and we'll talk about this obviously,
• 26:59
  but your book, The Sales Edge,
• 27:02
  you walk through a lot of stuff in there
• 27:04
  about what one of the key takeaways that I got from that
• 27:07
  is, you know, the whole thing about preparation, right?
• 27:09
  And doing your homework and having a dialogue
• 27:12
  or a talk track, being intentional with your time,
• 27:17
  you know, like the story you tell in there
• 27:18
  about the meeting you had with that big executive,
• 27:20
  that luncheon or dinner meeting, you know,
• 27:22
  where he just sat down, all right, let's get to it.
• 27:24
  And you prepared like the night before,
• 27:26
  done all your homework and you knew where their gaps were
• 27:29
  and you knew who exactly how to present a case
• 27:32
  that was gonna be compelling to him.
• 27:34
  Instead of like, yeah, so what's up?
• 27:36
  You know, what are your needs?
• 27:37
  You know, which is how a lot of people approach sales.
• 27:42
  You know, my book is a summary of some of the greatest lessons
• 27:47
  that I had the good fortune of learning from others.
• 27:50
  And I think I do a pretty good job of talking
• 27:53
  through the mistakes that I made as well.
• 27:55
  Because, you know, at the end of the day,
• 27:57
  you were all gonna make mistakes.
• 27:59
  And the question is, are you gonna learn from it?
• 28:02
  Or, you know, be yourself up over it.
• 28:06
  And that, what I like about how, you know,
• 28:08
  I worked with a writer, of course.
• 28:11
  You know, I wrote a lot of it, but you turn it over.
• 28:13
  You speak it out, the professional writer writes it
• 28:16
  and you feed it back and go back and forth.
• 28:18
  And I wanted to really, I think the art of a great story
• 28:25
  is the pain, is embarrassment,
• 28:29
  is the feeling of not enough,
• 28:31
  the feeling of trying something
• 28:34
  and not knowing the outcome
• 28:35
  and the outcome not turning out in your favor.
• 28:38
  The world loves an underdog.
• 28:42
  If I were to tell a story or write a book about,
• 28:46
  here's all the great things I did.
• 28:47
  Here's the top 10 greatest things, Gene Zed.
• 28:50
  Who would wanna listen to that?
• 28:52
  Yeah.
• 28:53
  But the people, I know, like my favorite movie is Rocky III.
• 28:59
  My favorite movie series are the Rocky movies.
• 29:02
  If I, you know, if you only watch one more movie,
• 29:05
  what's your favorite?
• 29:06
  Because the story, the hero's journey,
• 29:09
  the everyday guy gets an opportunity, turns it down,
• 29:13
  tries and fails.
• 29:16
  Mentor comes in to give advice, he denies the advice,
• 29:19
  he gets further and further to the bottom,
• 29:21
  hits rock bottom, decides to listen to mentor,
• 29:24
  takes a new action, begins to get some positive feedback
• 29:28
  or response or feedback or progress, takes more action,
• 29:32
  takes more action, then at the end,
• 29:35
  overcomes the giant, the foe, right?
• 29:43
  And it's a mindset, I mean, the ET,
• 29:46
  every Star Wars movie, I mean, the model,
• 29:49
  the hero's journey model is that's the stuff
• 29:53
  that people wanna hear about.
• 29:55
  I know that's what I wanna hear about.
• 29:57
  Yeah, well, that people have stories, that's for sure.
• 30:00
  And I'm sure you've got a lot of good stories,
• 30:03
  and I don't wanna overlook your accomplishments either.
• 30:06
  I mean, obviously you're being very humble,
• 30:07
  but you've alluded to a couple of those,
• 30:10
  you were, if we roll back to the one thing,
• 30:12
  we share some commonality,
• 30:14
  you were the VP of sales for Robbins Research for Tony
• 30:17
  for several years there.
• 30:19
  And I like the story you have in the book there,
• 30:22
  which is the company had been around for about 20 years
• 30:25
  and you came in and like blew all the old records away,
• 30:28
  like two, three times over.
• 30:31
  Yeah, 29 years the company had been in business,
• 30:33
  and there were 11 different,
• 30:35
  it's called revenue streams and that would be eight teams
• 30:39
  producing different revenue streams.
• 30:41
  Think about products, coaching, mastery university,
• 30:46
  UP, the unleash the power of thin seminar,
• 30:48
  I'm guessing your audience knows Tony and UPW and all that.
• 30:52
  There's ad event sales, there's post event sales,
• 30:55
  there's rollovers from a six month coaching contract
• 30:58
  to a 12, I mean, these are all different sellers selling
• 31:01
  different things in each of these half sales targets on them.
• 31:04
  I'm super proud of the fact that during the three years
• 31:07
  eyes with Tony, we broke every single record at least twice.
• 31:11
  We break the record, break that record.
• 31:13
  Some we broke three times, four times,
• 31:16
  including event attendance.
• 31:18
  Right.
• 31:19
  You know, first UPW I went to was 1800 people,
• 31:24
  by the time I left, we had 7,000 in an event, right?
• 31:28
  I mean, you know, then fast forward that to 10 years later,
• 31:32
  I was in the LA, unleash the power of thin,
• 31:35
  16,000 people,
• 31:38
  live, these are live bodies.
• 31:41
  Yeah, that's crazy.
• 31:42
  And here's another thing that I think is just,
• 31:46
  you know, hopefully people hear our fans of Tony Robbins,
• 31:49
  and if you're not, let me give you another reason why you should be.
• 31:52
  Think about the fact that that man has been doing live seminars
• 31:55
  for 30 plus years.
• 31:57
  That's how he has catapulted his fame.
• 32:00
  That's how he gives back to, you know,
• 32:03
  champions that want to get better or people
• 32:05
  that are desperately struggling and need something.
• 32:08
  The guy has dedicated his life to helping other people
• 32:12
  become mentally and stronger to evolve themselves.
• 32:16
  His business model was shattered 11 and a half months ago
• 32:20
  in COVID hits or 10 months ago in COVID hits.
• 32:23
  He had a 12,000 person event in San Jose
• 32:28
  that was ready to go right before the first,
• 32:31
  we got to shut everything down.
• 32:32
  Like, what do you mean shut everything down?
• 32:34
  I mean, he had to cancel that.
• 32:37
  I mean, just do the math.
• 32:38
  On an average ticket price of,
• 32:39
  let's just, I'm guessing, a thousand bucks.
• 32:41
  Just do the math, the financial math.
• 32:44
  Let alone all the deposits that have to be put down for travel
• 32:48
  and airfare and hotels and arenas,
• 32:51
  like devastating to the speaking business.
• 32:57
  And he didn't give up.
• 32:59
  And it wasn't 120 days later.
• 33:01
  Once we determined in COVID that this isn't gonna be
• 33:05
  a one month, two month, three month thing
• 33:08
  this could go on for a long time.
• 33:10
  If you remember back in April, Jeff,
• 33:11
  we were like, okay, yeah,
• 33:12
  we should be back to normal by September, October, November.
• 33:17
  Yeah.
• 33:18
  No.
• 33:19
  And he invented,
• 33:21
  now he had help and technology people,
• 33:22
  but he invented by the time August came,
• 33:26
  he was doing his four day event in what I imagine.
• 33:32
  I've seen pictures and probably same stuff
• 33:34
  that people have seen online of,
• 33:36
  like the half the size of a basketball court.
• 33:38
  And if you can see me,
• 33:39
  it's like a you horseshoe shape series of giant screen,
• 33:45
  like a like a drive in movie theater,
• 33:48
  but in a horseshoe shape that he could walk in the middle of.
• 33:51
  And for the people that paid the premium amount,
• 33:54
  he would see 10,000 little squares of people
• 33:58
  watching his seminar from home.
• 34:02
  One of the most difficult parts about public speaking
• 34:06
  and doing a seminar,
• 34:08
  public speaking doing a keynote is one thing.
• 34:10
  Doing a two day, three day, four day event.
• 34:13
  The easiest part of that Jeff is the actual on stage performance.
• 34:19
  You, me, Tony Robbins, whoever,
• 34:21
  getting up on stage and delivering their magic
• 34:24
  in a succinct order with a workbook,
• 34:26
  that's the easiest part of the whole thing.
• 34:29
  The hard part, the travel, getting there.
• 34:33
  If you're international,
• 34:35
  the overcoming when you're in Australia or you're in Asia
• 34:39
  or you're in Europe,
• 34:40
  I mean, we're talking drastic time zone changes.
• 34:44
  And, you know, that has an effect on the mind,
• 34:46
  it has an effect on the body with that much travel.
• 34:48
  And he's six eight, right?
• 34:51
  And he figured out a way not only to serve people,
• 34:57
  you know, 23,000 people pay full price
• 35:00
  as if it was coming to their city virtually
• 35:04
  for four days to sit in front of a screen
• 35:06
  or a TV or a laptop for four days, right?
• 35:12
  Then he did the next one, it was 35,000.
• 35:14
  Now, currently, as we speak right now,
• 35:17
  he's doing a kind of a free live,
• 35:20
  it's kind of a teaser, like two hours a day.
• 35:23
  According to, this is an unverified number.
• 35:26
  There were 200,000 people from around the world.
• 35:30
  So if you think about, if he's doing it at three o'clock
• 35:34
  in the afternoon in Florida,
• 35:36
  I don't know what the math is,
• 35:37
  that's gotta be three a.m. somewhere in the world.
• 35:41
  China, Asia, Australia, whatever.
• 35:44
  Think about it.
• 35:46
  He's re-in, this is the power of having an unstoppable mindset
• 35:51
  and living in a world of possibilities.
• 35:53
  He could have rolled over, as many people could have.
• 35:55
  Could have rolled over.
• 35:58
  Said, okay, we're gonna ride this out.
• 36:00
  And he's such a great example of that kind of mindset.
• 36:06
  Now he's figured out the fact that,
• 36:08
  not only does he not have to travel to Beijing
• 36:13
  to do a seminar or Sydney or Birmingham or London,
• 36:20
  he can do it within, I don't know how close this place is
• 36:23
  to his house, but you know what I mean?
• 36:25
  He has the best of all worlds.
• 36:27
  He's serving people at the highest level.
• 36:30
  He's delivering his gift.
• 36:32
  Yeah, and it's actually being in his own bed at night.
• 36:35
  It's profitable.
• 36:37
  And there's lessons all of us can learn.
• 36:39
  Regardless of where we are, there's always a way.
• 36:45
  I'm curious, so while we're on this topic,
• 36:47
  and then for those listening,
• 36:48
  we're gonna go back into the book
• 36:50
  and get to my notes about sales, the conversation framework.
• 36:54
  But so you talk about Tony,
• 36:58
  and obviously one of the greatest things about Tony
• 37:00
  to use him or live events in general,
• 37:02
  of course in my industry real estate mortgage,
• 37:04
  also crushed a lot of those events and so forth concerts.
• 37:09
  But do you think like in the case of Tony, right?
• 37:11
  Or other business related events?
• 37:14
  I mean, do you think what's the future?
• 37:18
  Has COVID created a permanent kind of preference
• 37:22
  or expectation for the virtual event now?
• 37:25
  I think that the world as we knew it 12 months ago
• 37:29
  will forever be altered.
• 37:31
  I think that as humans,
• 37:33
  we have proven that virtual delivery,
• 37:36
  very similar to what we're doing right now,
• 37:38
  can be very close to as effective as live delivery.
• 37:42
  And when you work out the factors,
• 37:47
  one is going to the seminar,
• 37:50
  flying there, driving there.
• 37:52
  If it's getting a hotel overnight,
• 37:54
  your food, unpacking, packing clothing, and so forth,
• 37:57
  as an attendee.
• 37:59
  But then you get to be in the live magic, right?
• 38:03
  Versus getting the content from the comfort of your own house.
• 38:08
  I mean, we, you know, let's face it, a year ago
• 38:11
  we were kind of using Zoom when necessary,
• 38:14
  when people couldn't be together,
• 38:15
  but the preference was in the business world.
• 38:17
  Everybody can come to us to one of the offices
• 38:20
  and you have already sits down
• 38:21
  and they put their coffee down and looks at the screen
• 38:24
  and the person gets up and presents in front of the screen.
• 38:26
  And what we've proven is that we can virtually run a business
• 38:32
  through, you know, whether it's Zoom or Google meets
• 38:35
  or Microsoft Teams.
• 38:38
  And what I've experienced is the speed of business
• 38:41
  has rapidly increased.
• 38:45
  And the involvement of virtual meetings,
• 38:49
  in March and April, you know, I'm a business to business.
• 38:53
  I'm a consultant of mid-sized and large-sized companies.
• 38:56
  It was first the Zoom thing.
• 38:57
  People would be in their T-shirts.
• 38:59
  They'd have their hat on backwards.
• 39:01
  It'd be a jumbled mess in the background.
• 39:04
  You know, it was a temporary thing and they were home
• 39:06
  and probably, you know, in shorts and flip flops.
• 39:11
  Then once the general population became open
• 39:18
  to the positive impact of virtual meetings.
• 39:21
  Like, you know, like I work with companies out of Europe,
• 39:24
  so that means I can start phone calls or Google meetings
• 39:28
  or Zoom meetings at five in the morning
• 39:30
  because they're eight hours ahead of us.
• 39:33
  And I can have four, five, and six quality,
• 39:37
  highly impactful meetings completed now by nine AM, 10 AM.
• 39:43
  So in the global nature of it,
• 39:46
  if it's Australia, there are different time zones.
• 39:48
  If it's Asia, there are in a different time zone.
• 39:50
  But the global nature is absolutely accepted.
• 39:56
  Now, frankly, and it sounds, it looks like you do too, Jeff.
• 39:59
  I mean, you pay attention to your background.
• 40:01
  Cool, right?
• 40:03
  Yeah, because I get up and I get up and take a shower
• 40:07
  and I shave and I put on a, you know,
• 40:09
  I got a sweater and a undershirt on,
• 40:11
  but I'll put on a button up shirt
• 40:13
  if it's important client meetings
• 40:14
  because this is now the first impression in many cases.
• 40:18
  So do you want to have a messy background with terrible lighting?
• 40:24
  Do you want to pay a little bit of attention to your lighting,
• 40:26
  put something behind you that looks good?
• 40:29
  Are you going to comb your hair and shave?
• 40:31
  And, right, this is the new norm.
• 40:35
  Yeah, so you made me think, so productivity,
• 40:38
  that's the word that popped in my head
• 40:39
  or you talked about the speed of business
• 40:41
  and productivity as well, right?
• 40:43
  We're just much more, I would guess, productive, right?
• 40:47
  Because we don't waste time with all the other
• 40:49
  between stuff going to the office and commuting.
• 40:52
  Well, Jeff, think of the day when you would have to,
• 40:55
  you're going to go to an appointment
• 40:57
  and you got to get dressed, drive in your car,
• 41:00
  deal with traffic, park, walk in, sit in the lobby,
• 41:04
  have your half hour, 45 minute meeting
• 41:07
  and then do the reverse.
• 41:08
  I mean, you think about what kind of time
• 41:11
  that you've burned in that process.
• 41:13
  If you had a one hour meeting, the odds are
• 41:14
  you've burned three hours,
• 41:17
  going to parking, walking in that meeting.
• 41:20
  Now, it's absolutely normal to have that meeting.
• 41:27
  Right, yeah, I'm going to do it.
• 41:28
  Just like we're doing it right now
• 41:30
  and accomplish the same thing,
• 41:31
  I can still look in somebody's face,
• 41:32
  I can still see their eyes,
• 41:34
  I can still read their body language,
• 41:36
  but is it as good as a face-to-face meeting?
• 41:38
  No.
• 41:40
  Does convenience factor balance that off?
• 41:43
  I would say yes, absolutely.
• 41:46
  That's interesting, because for those listening
• 41:49
  and you might know this,
• 41:50
  part of what I help deliver for mortgage originators
• 41:53
  is classes or an educational platform
• 41:56
  to help them drive engagement conversations
• 41:59
  with real estate agents to drive referrals.
• 42:01
  And of course, pre-COVID was all in person
• 42:04
  because there was no like a thing forcing us to do virtual.
• 42:07
  But now of course post-COVID, there is.
• 42:10
  And I'm getting two camps.
• 42:13
  One camp is like people will say,
• 42:15
  like last week on our call, you know, a guy says,
• 42:17
  hey, you know, I asked all my agents
• 42:18
  who attended a meeting, do you guys want to go back
• 42:22
  to in person?
• 42:22
  And 80% of them said no.
• 42:25
  We're cool doing it just like this.
• 42:27
  But then we get the flip side where people are zoomed out.
• 42:30
  All right, so here's my take on it.
• 42:34
  I think my answer to that,
• 42:35
  and you'll probably appreciate this being a presenter,
• 42:37
  is I think people say they're zoomed out
• 42:39
  when you're zoom sucks.
• 42:41
  And it's boring, right?
• 42:42
  Right?
• 42:45
  Or it's like content that's irrelevant, I don't care.
• 42:48
  And then on the other side is like,
• 42:51
  what you're alluding to here is with the backgrounds
• 42:54
  and now we have to like, you know,
• 42:55
  not have a baseball cap on and have your lighting now,
• 42:58
  just like when people started with video,
• 43:00
  organic straight from your phone video was cool
• 43:02
  and it still is, but the expectations go up
• 43:05
  once it becomes more of something normal for us.
• 43:08
  And we're like, you know what I mean?
• 43:09
  Oh, look at that dude, he's like,
• 43:10
  you can't even hear him, can't see him, he's not shaved.
• 43:12
  Now people are going to be judging you in this more critical,
• 43:16
  I guess, micro experience of engagement with you.
• 43:20
  Does that make sense?
• 43:21
  Nope, no doubt.
• 43:22
  Here's a, this is a little epiphany I had.
• 43:26
  In today's new world, you get no extra credit
• 43:28
  for being to a meeting early.
• 43:30
  Mm-hmm, but you do get dinged heavily
• 43:33
  if you're one minute late.
• 43:34
  That's true, that's true.
• 43:37
  Right, yeah, if it's a team meeting,
• 43:40
  if it's a customer meeting, aspect meeting,
• 43:44
  being on time is huge.
• 43:47
  Now here, again, here's the plus and the minus
• 43:50
  of this new world.
• 43:51
  Well, I have six kids, four of them are homeschooling.
• 43:57
  Oh yeah, you're doing some challenges, mm-hmm.
• 44:01
  Right, and I'm in an office in a house
• 44:04
  where they're over there and three of them are boys.
• 44:10
  So it's not a crazy fact in the middle of something
• 44:15
  to hear a, oh, I'm gonna kill you.
• 44:18
  Right, so there are some challenges with this,
• 44:21
  but here's the truth, be told, Jeff,
• 44:24
  I've been working with a single client,
• 44:28
  a one client that has hired my full time
• 44:31
  and attention to build a company,
• 44:33
  build an entire legit company.
• 44:35
  I'm not talking, it's me, myself, and I, and I'm gonna do,
• 44:38
  and I'm not judging it, but I'm talking about a one man band
• 44:42
  and get on quick books and get a LLC established.
• 44:46
  And now I'm, quote unquote, in business.
• 44:48
  I'm talking about building a real corporation,
• 44:52
  real corporations with lawyers and bookkeepers
• 44:55
  and accountants and HR professionals,
• 44:57
  salespeople, marketing people,
• 45:00
  delivers of the service which are engineers.
• 45:03
  I've done all of that from this exact computer
• 45:06
  on, I don't always use this microphone,
• 45:08
  but this is being recorded.
• 45:10
  I have not met one person in person, not one.
• 45:14
  And I've hired 15 separate resources.
• 45:17
  If you think about even HR,
• 45:20
  you've got to have an HR person,
• 45:21
  you've got to have contracts drawn up
• 45:24
  that have to be approved by attorneys,
• 45:26
  think about health insurance,
• 45:28
  you think about business insurance,
• 45:30
  you think about taxation and bookkeeping,
• 45:32
  like building a legit business,
• 45:35
  and you just made me think about it,
• 45:36
  like I started this at the end of October,
• 45:39
  so we're 90, you know, 90 days in,
• 45:43
  actually about right now,
• 45:45
  and I've built the entire business
• 45:47
  without meeting one person.
• 45:48
  That includes shopping for property.
• 45:50
  I didn't meet the commercial real estate broker
• 45:52
  for the office space that will be,
• 45:54
  and now we're in London, we really need an office,
• 45:56
  but it's an engineering company,
• 45:58
  so there's equipment and stuff that we've got a house.
• 46:01
  Yeah.
• 46:02
  Well, let's pivot then back to sales,
• 46:04
  and back to your book then.
• 46:05
  So, are you training,
• 46:09
  or do you think that virtual selling,
• 46:11
  even though it's been around a long time,
• 46:14
  is that now like a skill that we have to have
• 46:18
  to be relevant in this quote new world?
• 46:21
  1000% on virtual selling,
• 46:24
  so what has changed with virtual selling?
• 46:26
  Well, organization is critically important.
• 46:30
  Being able to send a file and receive a file
• 46:33
  and open it and look at it,
• 46:35
  or share a doc on a screen, absolutely critical.
• 46:38
  Using programs like eSign or DocuSign,
• 46:41
  getting contract signed like that.
• 46:44
  I'm going to send this to you right now, Jeff.
• 46:45
  All you got to do is click here, click here,
• 46:47
  and click there, and we're done.
• 46:49
  Let's go ahead and do that now.
• 46:51
  You know, the old days of, you know,
• 46:52
  you slip the contract over and hand them the back.
• 46:55
  Do the old Tommy off,
• 46:56
  you just put the pen in front of them.
• 46:59
  Well, that's now DocuSign.
• 47:02
  If you're a buttoned up.
• 47:03
  Yeah, I was going to say,
• 47:04
  so just not leave the two quick.
• 47:07
  This is the thing in our industry,
• 47:08
  and the mortgage and real estate industry is,
• 47:10
  those who aren't yet adapting,
• 47:12
  or have, you know, aren't building these skills
• 47:17
  to virtually conduct a business.
• 47:20
  Are they going to be left behind?
• 47:22
  I think so, unless their referral network is so strong,
• 47:26
  when you can't replace brand identity.
• 47:30
  So if somebody's been in this business,
• 47:31
  they're tried and true,
• 47:33
  you've got an army of former clients
• 47:36
  that either can become repeat clients
• 47:38
  because they re-fi or they move and need a new mortgage,
• 47:42
  but they're also talking about you.
• 47:45
  That's important,
• 47:46
  but I think there's a lot of people that miss the boat
• 47:48
  on their own public relations,
• 47:51
  basic stuff like their social media pages,
• 47:54
  their activity on social media.
• 47:56
  Are they using email to stay in contact with the people?
• 48:00
  Do they even have a database or a CRM?
• 48:02
  I mean, if you don't these days,
• 48:05
  it's just a matter of time when it's going to overtake you.
• 48:10
  It's interesting.
• 48:12
  It's something I'm thinking about a lot with virtual selling,
• 48:15
  if you will, or conducting business virtually,
• 48:18
  you just establish, you can build a business
• 48:20
  and never meet the people individually in person.
• 48:24
  There's so much we can talk about,
• 48:26
  like vetting off of some of these topics.
• 48:28
  If you don't mind, I want to bring it back
• 48:30
  to some of the notes from the book, if we can,
• 48:32
  because there's a lot of stuff in the book.
• 48:36
  Okay, so conversation framework.
• 48:41
  As I'm thinking about, and I'm reading through your book,
• 48:43
  and I'm thinking about, how do I apply this
• 48:44
  to the people who are listening to this,
• 48:46
  which is largely mortgage loan officers,
• 48:47
  who obviously are selling direct consumer right now.
• 48:50
  And you may well know the challenge in the space.
• 48:53
  Well, first of all, it's crazy busy,
• 48:54
  the housing markets on fire, people have refried like crazy,
• 48:57
  so it's just their throwing business at you, you know?
• 49:00
  And I think the need for selling in that environment
• 49:04
  has come down, right?
• 49:06
  Because it's like, look, if the rates are X,
• 49:08
  and you know that's a point less than I'm already getting,
• 49:11
  I don't need a lot of convincing, you know?
• 49:13
  And I kind of already know you or whatever,
• 49:15
  it's like, so let's just go with it.
• 49:17
  But, and so I want to have this conversation
• 49:19
  in the structure of, for those listening,
• 49:21
  is think about this conversation framework,
• 49:24
  which Jean is going to walk through in a moment,
• 49:25
  about it's still vitally important,
• 49:30
  like the first words that come out of your mouth,
• 49:32
  that first impression that you talked about,
• 49:33
  whether you're on Zoom or on the phone,
• 49:35
  and then a conversation framework for your partners,
• 49:39
  to me, which is equally and sometimes more critical,
• 49:41
  but big set up there.
• 49:44
  But, could you just unpack a little bit kind of what you mean
• 49:47
  when you talk about conversation framework?
• 49:50
  Yeah, there's, you can establish leverage
• 49:54
  or B leverage in a conversation,
• 49:56
  and one of the greatest ways to think about it is this,
• 50:00
  it's called frame control.
• 50:02
  The simplest way to put it is,
• 50:04
  the person that's asking the questions
• 50:06
  is the person in charge of the conversation.
• 50:09
  They're the leaders.
• 50:11
  And if you just understand some basic notions
• 50:14
  of what's called a pre-frame,
• 50:17
  what happens before you get on that collar in that meeting?
• 50:20
  How do you set it up?
• 50:22
  And you have establishing the dominant framework,
• 50:26
  the frame of reference,
• 50:27
  which means you are the one asking questions.
• 50:30
  Here's the most profound question
• 50:32
  that you can ask at the beginning of a meeting,
• 50:35
  or the beginning of a video meeting or in person.
• 50:38
  How can I help you?
• 50:40
  I know that sounds stupidly ridiculous,
• 50:43
  but you would be surprised at how many people
• 50:46
  miss this simple thing.
• 50:47
  Okay, you get on now.
• 50:48
  Now, imagine this.
• 50:49
  I've talked to you, Jeff.
• 50:50
  You're the, you're the mortgage guy
• 50:53
  that we had referred to me.
• 50:55
  Before we meet, you send me a series of emails.
• 50:58
  One is, hey, I thought you'd be interested
• 51:00
  in this long list of testimonials I have.
• 51:03
  Or the second one is, is, oh, thank you, you know,
• 51:05
  hey, John, thanks for referring gene to me
• 51:08
  and there's a connected email there.
• 51:11
  John, I won't tell him about your golf game, whatever.
• 51:13
  Something funny right there, right?
• 51:14
  So you got, there's all these little persuasive,
• 51:18
  simple things that you can do to pre-frame the meeting.
• 51:21
  So that person is excited to talk to you.
• 51:24
  They know they're talking to somebody
• 51:25
  that is intelligent in something they're not intelligent in,
• 51:29
  right?
• 51:30
  Like, for a lot of you listening right now,
• 51:32
  mortgage and points and title and that's like second nature,
• 51:35
  but to the normal person like me, that's foreign language.
• 51:39
  I want to be taught how to be a better buyer.
• 51:43
  So you pre-frame in advance.
• 51:45
  What are your touch points for somebody to say,
• 51:49
  yeah, I want to talk to you, let's schedule some time.
• 51:51
  Then it's saying, your first question out of the shoots is,
• 51:56
  hey, I'm so glad we both know Jeff, that's super cool.
• 51:58
  Let's get that right down to it.
• 52:00
  Here's what I like, here's what I like to say, Jeff.
• 52:02
  I want to be respectful of your time.
• 52:05
  So let's get right to it.
• 52:06
  How can I help you?
• 52:08
  Well, I'm looking to do this.
• 52:11
  Great, tell me more, okay?
• 52:15
  And then you just, you go right through
• 52:17
  the who and the what and the where and the when.
• 52:20
  Asking questions and yes, you need to know this information.
• 52:25
  But what you're unconsciously doing is taking charge of that situation.
• 52:31
  And so with a conversation framework, what you've done as I've read,
• 52:35
  I mean, you've come in and you've grown companies and done this amazing growth.
• 52:40
  Like you did at Gateway, you grew them, I forget what it started at,
• 52:43
  but you helped them scale to 11 billion with a B in sales.
• 52:46
  That's a pretty good win.
• 52:49
  You know, to the up there.
• 52:51
  But what you did, did you put a strategic framework together that was repeatable?
• 52:55
  And basically you follow that over and over again, right?
• 52:59
  Well, yeah, I mean, there's there's there's steps and sequences to every type of selling.
• 53:03
  I mean, if you're selling to the government,
• 53:05
  that's different than selling to an individual, right?
• 53:08
  But there are patterns and processes that if you study the successful people
• 53:13
  in any of the fields that you see it over and over again,
• 53:16
  you can understand what the typical patterns of what they do, how they do it,
• 53:20
  when they do it, when they ask for the business, when they ask questions,
• 53:24
  when they back off, but if you're looking at and studying the people that are the best,
• 53:30
  I mean, people are listening to your stuff, Jeff, because you've got a history of success.
• 53:35
  You're a hunter of the patterns of excellence in your job is to orate that,
• 53:40
  to synthesize that and feed it back to the audience.
• 53:43
  That's why people are you're listening right now,
• 53:45
  listen or wherever you are in your car or at the gym, right?
• 53:49
  Yeah, for sure.
• 53:50
  And so pattern recognition is, you know, Tony Robbins says is,
• 53:54
  what is the number one power in business and sales is anticipation, right?
• 53:59
  To anticipate, you've got to understand the patterns.
• 54:03
  Anticipate what?
• 54:05
  Anticipate buying behaviors.
• 54:07
  Anticipate what are the things that somebody needs to know or should know about you or your company,
• 54:14
  even prior to having the meeting?
• 54:16
  Anticipate what is the way you're going to run that meeting?
• 54:19
  You mentioned just winging it like, okay, hey, how's it going?
• 54:22
  Yeah, what are we doing?
• 54:23
  Like having a pattern and a process and a methodology, a roadmap of what you want to take somebody to,
• 54:29
  the customer journey that leads them to, yes, answer a conversion and ultimately referrals.
• 54:36
  If you, there are no shortage of training programs available.
• 54:39
  And Jeff, I'm assuming you have one yourself.
• 54:43
  Now, you have resources, you have tools.
• 54:45
  There is no shortage of resources and tools.
• 54:47
  But what I would challenge everybody to think about is this,
• 54:51
  anything you want to do, you can Google it or you can YouTube it at minimum, anything.
• 54:58
  Want to lose weight?
• 54:59
  Google it.
• 55:00
  Want to run a marathon?
• 55:01
  You never run in your life?
• 55:02
  Google it.
• 55:04
  Want to learn how to cook a five star meal?
• 55:06
  Google YouTube, right?
• 55:09
  It's all there.
• 55:10
  So here's my question, Jeff, why doesn't everybody do it?
• 55:14
  Why isn't everybody wildly successful, happy, proud of their body in a loving relationship?
• 55:20
  Why?
• 55:21
  Wow.
• 55:22
  That's a great question.
• 55:24
  In a simple way, I think because they choose not to, maybe consciously or unconsciously,
• 55:28
  but choose not to do what's required, learn what's required to achieve that outcome.
• 55:33
  Yeah.
• 55:34
  I mean, you're spot on.
• 55:36
  I mean, that's what has been in my head, since it's always in my head, it's like getting
• 55:42
  in shape.
• 55:43
  There's no, there's a gut, the zillion diets, right?
• 55:46
  What's that?
• 55:47
  No secret.
• 55:48
  I'm how to get in shape.
• 55:50
  It's like, eat less than you write and work out, right?
• 55:53
  It's like, it's not rock signs, but people don't.
• 55:55
  Because they're getting into all these choices and stuff.
• 55:58
  Let me bring it back to sales for a minute, because I wrote something down, maybe answer
• 56:03
  this question, because this is kind of what you did at Robbins and probably other companies
• 56:08
  as well.
• 56:09
  Take the same product and pricing and yet grow and outperform people who attempt to do the
• 56:17
  same before.
• 56:18
  And that's the perfect setup for largely what we have in the mortgage space is the products
• 56:22
  are pretty much the same.
• 56:23
  The pricing is pretty much the same.
• 56:26
  So how can somebody write, how do you grow and outperform if everything's baseline is
• 56:31
  relatively the same?
• 56:32
  Like, what's the, the other question to add on to that?
• 56:34
  Like you said, I think this is Tony's question.
• 56:36
  What's the difference that makes the difference?
• 56:38
  I was just going to say that.
• 56:40
  So what's the, you know, I just, there's no science behind this, but typically the, the
• 56:48
  clients that have hired me, I've consulted 159 companies.
• 56:51
  This was as a consultant, not working for the company and I spent 12 years at Gateway,
• 56:56
  almost four years with Tony and the rest has been, you know, I come in as the six, for
• 57:01
  six months or in some cases, that's a year or some cases two or three, is that most of
• 57:06
  the companies that I work with are the premium price.
• 57:10
  Okay.
• 57:11
  And what I say to them is if you have a premium price, you got to have a premium sales
• 57:14
  process and a premium story, okay, we all get that.
• 57:19
  But the truth is, unless your organization is dynamically and radically different than
• 57:25
  the marketplace, which is just very rare these days, unless you're the new one or you're
• 57:29
  the cheapest of everybody, outside of that, 90% of what you do is considered the same.
• 57:37
  Like, I would think mortgage agent A versus B versus C, you're all the same.
• 57:42
  It's kind of like hiring an attorney and I found this the hard way just because somebody
• 57:46
  used an attorney, doesn't mean they're a good one.
• 57:49
  It doesn't mean they're organized, it doesn't mean that I'm going to get along with them.
• 57:53
  It doesn't mean that I'm going to approve of what they say or do or agree with it, right?
• 58:00
  Well, that person's an attorney and I got referred, I'm just going, you know what I mean?
• 58:05
  So, there's a 10% difference that makes the difference and that's the human factor of
• 58:10
  what it is we do.
• 58:11
  Now what are some controllable elements in the human factor?
• 58:16
  How we build rapport?
• 58:19
  How we anticipate buying patterns and processes?
• 58:24
  You control the level and the quality of the questions that you ask.
• 58:29
  You control the speed at which you give responses, control the quality of those responses that
• 58:35
  you give, control the networking, you control what people say about you that are networking
• 58:42
  on your behalf called referrals for errors.
• 58:46
  You control how you stay in contact with former clients to say, hey, thought you'd appreciate
• 58:50
  this by the way, if you know anybody that's looking, make sure and keep me in mind.
• 58:55
  All that's controllable and I'm a huge fan, Jeff, of saying, I've done this for 30 years
• 59:03
  now, of spending the money on something, a course, event, a book, the tapes, the CDs,
• 59:13
  of spending the money because you give yourself personal obligation to actually follow through
• 59:20
  on the material.
• 59:23
  So there's so many people out there that just, you know, I've even sent people my book.
• 59:29
  I mean, the great thing about having a book, especially if it's a, you know, best selling
• 59:32
  book, which, you know, I'm honored for that, is that when I meet somebody and I get their
• 59:37
  address, I can send them a personal sign copy and that shows up.
• 59:41
  I mean, what a calling card.
• 59:44
  And my net cost on that is with shipping is probably seven or eight bucks rolled up.
• 59:49
  But my point is, is I do that to master the initial impression, to give them something
• 59:56
  of value first and not every time to somebody get the book and they read it cover to cover
• 1:00:02
  and they get on and write me a recommendation, no, I'm not doing it to get something from
• 1:00:06
  it.
• 1:00:07
  But I am doing it to master the frame up and build a lasting impression.
• 1:00:15
  Right.
• 1:00:16
  So if we say the 10% difference that makes the difference is the human factor, right?
• 1:00:22
  So.
• 1:00:24
  Yeah, there's a lot in there.
• 1:00:25
  If there are programs, I know I have a several friends that are in the real estate coaching
• 1:00:31
  business.
• 1:00:32
  I have other friends that are in the mortgage coaching business.
• 1:00:35
  And I'm just like, all of those people were super high level top performers in their
• 1:00:41
  day.
• 1:00:42
  And now they've chosen to teach other people how they did it.
• 1:00:46
  This old saying of those who can't do teach, I mean, I got riddled with that when I became
• 1:00:50
  the sales trainer and I'm like, dude, I was the number one seller.
• 1:00:53
  So shut up.
• 1:00:55
  But anyway, just STF you somebody's like, what about Lou Holtz, all right?
• 1:01:01
  My point to anybody listening right now, if you want to be great, it is highly unlikely
• 1:01:07
  you're going to do it just out of the biological wisdom you were born with.
• 1:01:12
  It requires intervention of somebody who's done what it is you want to do.
• 1:01:16
  And if you want to get yourself to follow through, put your money up, you'll follow through
• 1:01:20
  a lot higher.
• 1:01:21
  I had a personal trainer and the only time you could train me was at six in the morning.
• 1:01:25
  This is a few years back.
• 1:01:27
  I said, okay, I was all gun hoe and you know, New Year's resolution and my best body
• 1:01:32
  you're ever.
• 1:01:34
  And it was a hundred bucks a session, which whatever you think of a hundred bucks, it's
• 1:01:37
  a lot of money to me.
• 1:01:38
  You know, I don't care if I'm a gazillionaire, a hundred bucks going to be a lot of money.
• 1:01:41
  I'm going to still get the deals that McDonald's when I can't, just how I'm wired.
• 1:01:45
  I'm like, you're eating a McDonald's, I'm sorry.
• 1:01:48
  What's that?
• 1:01:49
  I'm fully eating it.
• 1:01:50
  The McDonald's.
• 1:01:51
  The metaphorically speaking.
• 1:01:54
  I think that's.
• 1:01:56
  There were many times I did not want to go to that session.
• 1:01:58
  I'm hitting snooze, hitting snooze and hitting snooze and I went because of the hundred
• 1:02:03
  bucks.
• 1:02:04
  Yeah, for sure, because you're on the hook, man, you got skin in the game.
• 1:02:07
  Anyway, that's my, I don't, I'm not pitching anybody's product.
• 1:02:11
  I'm just saying, I am the product of investing money in myself.
• 1:02:17
  and I would, the only thing I would have done 20 years ago
• 1:02:20
  is double down on those investments.
• 1:02:22
  Yeah, well, you said something that's very...
• 1:02:25
  I wanna make sure people don't overlook it
• 1:02:27
  and I wrote it down, premium,
• 1:02:29
  if you have a premium price,
• 1:02:31
  you need a premium process.
• 1:02:33
  Yeah.
• 1:02:34
  This pause for a second, thick because so many of people,
• 1:02:38
  the first words out of people's mouth,
• 1:02:40
  when they're calling this mortgage person is,
• 1:02:41
  yeah, what's your rate?
• 1:02:43
  What's your price?
• 1:02:45
  And to your point earlier about anticipation
• 1:02:47
  and you talked a lot in there about its sales process
• 1:02:50
  and the questions you ask
• 1:02:51
  and how do you show up before the meeting.
• 1:02:53
  So those that are listening right now,
• 1:02:54
  you guys know there's a lot of tools you have.
• 1:02:56
  Some of you currently use them,
• 1:02:57
  some of you could be,
• 1:02:59
  but to better control the perception, if you will,
• 1:03:04
  or the feeling that somebody has about you
• 1:03:07
  before you even talk to them,
• 1:03:09
  including if you're getting referrals
• 1:03:10
  from real estate agents and how do you tee up,
• 1:03:14
  how do you teach that referral partner to tee you up?
• 1:03:16
  For example, but I'm gonna come back to that,
• 1:03:18
  like for those listening,
• 1:03:20
  and probably some later later episodes,
• 1:03:22
  whatever, premium price needs a premium process.
• 1:03:24
  It's cool.
• 1:03:25
  Premium price requires a premium story
• 1:03:29
  and a premium process.
• 1:03:30
  That means when that I can get the same rate,
• 1:03:35
  I can get a better rate down the street comes up
• 1:03:37
  that you've gotta be prepared to answer that.
• 1:03:39
  Well, I'm sure you could get another rate.
• 1:03:42
  There's a reason why I have this many clients.
• 1:03:45
  There's a reason why you were referred to me,
• 1:03:46
  and it's this.
• 1:03:47
  Do you mind if we talk about that a little bit?
• 1:03:49
  How important is A?
• 1:03:50
  How important is B and how important is C?
• 1:03:53
  Because the truth is, Jeff,
• 1:03:55
  there isn't anything available on this earth today
• 1:03:58
  that you cannot find cheaper.
• 1:04:01
  Right.
• 1:04:02
  Right?
• 1:04:03
  You want to though, yeah.
• 1:04:04
  Yeah, I mean, you can have a cheap cell phone.
• 1:04:08
  You can have a cheap car, and I'm not judging it.
• 1:04:11
  You can buy cheap clothing or good clothing.
• 1:04:13
  There's a radical difference.
• 1:04:17
  The other key point you make in your book,
• 1:04:18
  there's so much, I mean, it's like, man,
• 1:04:21
  we could do like three different podcasts
• 1:04:22
  on your book and all the content.
• 1:04:23
  So, I wanna make sure before we forget,
• 1:04:25
  we're gonna put a link in the show notes,
• 1:04:26
  but a website for you guys to go get,
• 1:04:29
  you've got kind of a free preview of your book
• 1:04:31
  if people want it, right?
• 1:04:33
  Yeah, totally.
• 1:04:33
  Go to, it's a landing page.
• 1:04:35
  Go to the, the sales edge.
• 1:04:37
  That's the name of the book, the salesedge.co.
• 1:04:41
  And what you get, that come wasn't available.
• 1:04:44
  Yeah, what you get is a series of videos there.
• 1:04:45
  You get a free chapter review,
• 1:04:47
  but just go to Amazon and buy the book.
• 1:04:49
  Come on, you guys can afford it.
• 1:04:50
  Yeah, I mean, you know, if you, here would be a great example.
• 1:04:55
  Go to the salesedge.co, and I asked for your first name
• 1:04:59
  and your email address.
• 1:05:00
  We don't hound.
• 1:05:01
  I don't put you into some un-stupid drip campaign.
• 1:05:05
  You'll get a couple emails from us
• 1:05:08
  to invite you to and look at other programs,
• 1:05:10
  but the notion here is that you give something of value
• 1:05:14
  for free and let people make their own decision.
• 1:05:19
  If you like the chapter, then there's a chance
• 1:05:22
  you're gonna go to Amazon and drop 12 bucks for the book.
• 1:05:25
  Truth be told, how much I make on a book sale, Jeff?
• 1:05:29
  I know, very little.
• 1:05:31
  Yeah, two bucks, two dollars.
• 1:05:34
  So I'm not ethically bribing you for your $2.75.
• 1:05:40
  Right, but if you follow the sequence
• 1:05:44
  of a very inexpensive landing page,
• 1:05:46
  somebody puts in their name, it goes into a database.
• 1:05:51
  That database will allow me in an unobstructive way
• 1:05:56
  to reach out and say, hey, I just did a new video.
• 1:05:59
  I have this series I do on LinkedIn called
• 1:06:01
  the sales two-minute tune up.
• 1:06:04
  I thought it was cute.
• 1:06:05
  It's hard to get people to watch a half-hour video anymore.
• 1:06:09
  That is just a fact.
• 1:06:10
  I have a hard time watching a half-hour video.
• 1:06:12
  I can listen to a podcast while I'm driving in my car,
• 1:06:15
  no problem if I have that kind of a trip
• 1:06:19
  and I live in Southern California
• 1:06:21
  sometimes going 20 miles is two hours, right?
• 1:06:25
  But my point is I had to think of something
• 1:06:28
  that would give a quick hit of killer content.
• 1:06:31
  Like here's the other thing is, I give away my best stuff.
• 1:06:35
  I learned that from chat homes.
• 1:06:37
  So the chapter I give away at the salesedge.co
• 1:06:40
  is the best chapter.
• 1:06:41
  It's the chapter that's most unique to me
• 1:06:44
  on how to run the perfect first meeting.
• 1:06:48
  Yes, there's somebody's in sales
• 1:06:50
  and they're meeting new people
• 1:06:52
  and they've got to run that first meeting.
• 1:06:54
  This is a roadmap that I learned from another source,
• 1:07:01
  I modified that source because it was a little bit old,
• 1:07:04
  it was spin selling, remember that?
• 1:07:07
  I upped it and what I thought,
• 1:07:09
  I give all honor and homage to spin
• 1:07:10
  but I said, look, I've got a better way that works for me.
• 1:07:13
  I want to teach that to you.
• 1:07:15
  And it gives you a roadmap of how to run those first meetings.
• 1:07:18
  It doesn't matter whether you're in person on the phone
• 1:07:20
  or virtual.
• 1:07:21
  There's a certain sequence of events that has to happen.
• 1:07:24
  Number one, educate yourself on what they're trying to do.
• 1:07:27
  Number two, understand their gap.
• 1:07:30
  They either have a problem to solve
• 1:07:32
  or they have a situation they want to make even better.
• 1:07:35
  Three, take them to the future.
• 1:07:37
  I learned this in NLP.
• 1:07:38
  What's it going to mean for you to do this right?
• 1:07:40
  What's it going to mean for you to do this wrong in the future?
• 1:07:43
  And what if you do nothing?
• 1:07:44
  Where do you see yourself in six months to a year?
• 1:07:47
  Future pace them.
• 1:07:48
  Four, establish an emotional connection
• 1:07:52
  through a story of another client
• 1:07:54
  just like them that said, yes, and are glad they did.
• 1:07:56
  Then offer that case study, offer that phone call.
• 1:08:01
  I mean, that's how I want to be, you wouldn't be surprised, Jeff.
• 1:08:06
  As I've been building this company, I've had to interview,
• 1:08:09
  I don't know, I don't want to say hundreds.
• 1:08:10
  That's an exaggeration.
• 1:08:11
  Probably 50 vendors.
• 1:08:13
  Everything for who's going to be our SEO media spend buyer
• 1:08:17
  to who's going to build our website, who we're going to have
• 1:08:20
  for HR, who's going to do our bookkeeping.
• 1:08:22
  I've had at least five occasions where I liked the company.
• 1:08:26
  I liked what they were online.
• 1:08:28
  Maybe I got referred to them or I found them on Google.
• 1:08:31
  And the seller was so awful, so effing bad that I said,
• 1:08:36
  you need to go to the salesedge.co.
• 1:08:38
  You need to download my chapter.
• 1:08:40
  Do not call me back until you read that chapter
• 1:08:43
  and you follow this process.
• 1:08:45
  You're like, come back second approach.
• 1:08:47
  Let's see it better.
• 1:08:48
  Well, if you're always putting yourself in the buyer's shoes,
• 1:08:52
  think about it when somebody's selling to you.
• 1:08:54
  One thing I like about going to Best Buy
• 1:08:56
  is they're not commissions salespeople.
• 1:08:59
  They're walking around saying,
• 1:09:01
  what can I help you?
• 1:09:02
  How can I help you?
• 1:09:03
  How can I help you?
• 1:09:03
  Yeah, can you tell me how this plug-in,
• 1:09:06
  I need a docking station.
• 1:09:07
  I had to buy one and it was going,
• 1:09:10
  well, tell me what you're trying to do
• 1:09:11
  and what are you plugging in?
• 1:09:12
  And I had a Mac monitor, but I had a Google Chromebook.
• 1:09:15
  And the dude just educated me on the whole situation.
• 1:09:19
  And I didn't give a shit.
• 1:09:20
  What he was selling?
• 1:09:21
  I wanted the best one he had.
• 1:09:24
  Yeah, that happens hard.
• 1:09:27
  Show up to serve.
• 1:09:28
  Which by the way, thank you for sharing
• 1:09:29
  that your acronym edge EDGE, right,
• 1:09:32
  hence the title of the book.
• 1:09:34
  And I guess to close it out,
• 1:09:36
  it really kind of brings back front and center.
• 1:09:38
  This other thing you write in your book,
• 1:09:40
  which is experience does not equal effectiveness.
• 1:09:44
  You know this job, there's people that would say
• 1:09:48
  they've been in sales for 20 years,
• 1:09:50
  but they've done the same thing just 20 times a year
• 1:09:53
  or 20 times every year.
• 1:09:55
  They haven't grown, they haven't evolved.
• 1:09:58
  They're not working on their game.
• 1:10:00
  They're not studying their market.
• 1:10:02
  They're not studying their industry.
• 1:10:04
  They're not working on the skill set.
• 1:10:06
  And I don't have any judgment for them.
• 1:10:08
  It's, I gotta believe what's that?
• 1:10:12
  Dude.
• 1:10:13
  Okay, well, you can say it,
• 1:10:14
  but I have no judgment on those people,
• 1:10:16
  but you know, somebody isn't listening
• 1:10:19
  to this podcast in my voice right now
• 1:10:22
  that isn't an achiever of some level.
• 1:10:25
  Yeah, right.
• 1:10:26
  Success, there's plenty of room at the top,
• 1:10:29
  it's the bottom that's crowded.
• 1:10:31
  And I keep, you know, we get into the tactics
• 1:10:33
  of the sales process and everything it is I know.
• 1:10:36
  And I've studied as, you know,
• 1:10:39
  probably more than the average duck in terms of,
• 1:10:42
  let me go find the very best in the world.
• 1:10:44
  What are the number one selling books?
• 1:10:45
  And I always buy that and read it.
• 1:10:48
  What is out there that's new?
• 1:10:49
  What can I try?
• 1:10:50
  Well, you know, I was challenging my own self,
• 1:10:52
  but you know, it's achievers that are listening
• 1:10:57
  and reading and doing.
• 1:10:58
  It's the achievers.
• 1:11:00
  If you're listening to this now,
• 1:11:02
  it says something about you.
• 1:11:03
  You're hungry for more.
• 1:11:04
  You're either really good and you want it.
• 1:11:06
  You know, there's another level.
• 1:11:08
  You're getting lackluster results and you need help
• 1:11:12
  or you really suck,
• 1:11:13
  but you finally hit a point where you're like,
• 1:11:15
  I've got to go find a resource.
• 1:11:18
  Whatever stage you are on,
• 1:11:20
  it is the changing of your actions
• 1:11:22
  that will dictate your results.
• 1:11:24
  And if you understand the power of delayed gratification,
• 1:11:29
  that would suggest that.
• 1:11:31
  You don't, I mean, I'll just silly metaphor.
• 1:11:33
  You don't go to the gym for one week
• 1:11:34
  and expect to be in shape,
• 1:11:36
  but you do know, compounded that if you alter your diet
• 1:11:40
  in a positive way and you exercise over the course of time,
• 1:11:45
  you will lose weight.
• 1:11:46
  Over the course of time, delayed gratification,
• 1:11:49
  your body will start to shape differently.
• 1:11:52
  Your brain works the exact same way.
• 1:11:57
  And it's the same as true with like marketing,
• 1:11:59
  if we talk about like social media, for example,
• 1:12:01
  which is an area that I know a fair amount of people struggle
• 1:12:03
  with, how do I show up on social?
• 1:12:05
  What do I post?
• 1:12:06
  And you know what I mean?
• 1:12:07
  Figuring out that whole structure.
• 1:12:08
  People, ROI people often ask and it's like,
• 1:12:11
  they need to have the same principle
• 1:12:13
  of delayed gratification.
• 1:12:14
  Just before we had you and I recording,
• 1:12:17
  I was interviewing a loan officer out of the Bay Area.
• 1:12:21
  She did $200 million last year,
• 1:12:24
  pop one percent of the country.
• 1:12:25
  And she heard number one source of business is YouTube.
• 1:12:29
  Four years ago, she started on YouTube.
• 1:12:31
  Four years.
• 1:12:33
  That's delayed gratification.
• 1:12:36
  Oh, dude, I heard something that was so good
• 1:12:38
  and I was like, God, that's so spot on.
• 1:12:40
  This marketing guru said, allow people
• 1:12:43
  to rabbit hole on your content.
• 1:12:46
  I like that.
• 1:12:47
  Like that's YouTube.
• 1:12:49
  So whatever she does on YouTube.
• 1:12:50
  Here's this and here's that.
• 1:12:52
  And you know, there's four keys to this.
• 1:12:53
  There's three dangers you should avoid.
• 1:12:56
  The number one lesson I've learned.
• 1:12:58
  Here's a testament, whatever.
• 1:12:59
  I can only, I'm fairly probably accurate
• 1:13:01
  in predicting what she puts on there.
• 1:13:03
  Oh yeah.
• 1:13:04
  A little bit of time and attention,
• 1:13:05
  especially now when.
• 1:13:08
  Yes.
• 1:13:09
  We have a literal video production system in our hands
• 1:13:14
  that we can carry just like this.
• 1:13:18
  There's no excuse not to do it.
• 1:13:21
  Well, like rolling back to the story you opened up with
• 1:13:23
  was going to the seminars, driving,
• 1:13:26
  sitting in an event, having to go out of your way
• 1:13:30
  to get access to information
• 1:13:32
  that was gonna help you fulfill your vision.
• 1:13:35
  Today, you're holding up your phone as I am.
• 1:13:37
  Today, it's so damn easy.
• 1:13:41
  Well, there's dreamers and there's achievers.
• 1:13:46
  Okay.
• 1:13:47
  Always that.
• 1:13:48
  There's dreamers and achievers.
• 1:13:50
  The achievers are the ones that are getting information,
• 1:13:53
  looking for the information
• 1:13:54
  if they see something like they act on it.
• 1:13:55
  They know that the only way to change
• 1:13:58
  the long-term results is to change the current behavior.
• 1:14:01
  Yeah, I'm into that.
• 1:14:04
  You know, and I think on that,
• 1:14:06
  that's probably a good note to say
• 1:14:07
  some behavior you want to change is to get Jean's book.
• 1:14:11
  Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 1:14:12
  Well, you know, honestly, it's not a big pitchfast.
• 1:14:14
  Oh, don't get my book.
• 1:14:17
  Go get any book that's written by somebody
• 1:14:20
  that's done something pretty big and read it
• 1:14:23
  and highlight it or put it on your Kindle
• 1:14:26
  or put it on your mobile,
• 1:14:29
  what's the mobile book, the audio book,
• 1:14:30
  audio.com, audible.com, digest the info.
• 1:14:35
  Here's another one.
• 1:14:36
  I love podcasts.
• 1:14:39
  Why?
• 1:14:40
  Because in most cases, just like with Jeff,
• 1:14:43
  it's current.
• 1:14:44
  It's real.
• 1:14:44
  They're talking about subject matter and content,
• 1:14:47
  but it's now COVID.
• 1:14:49
  We're in a different stage of COVID right now.
• 1:14:51
  Like Jim Rohn says, life is like the seasons.
• 1:14:54
  You're gonna have your winters, your springs,
• 1:14:57
  your summers and your falls.
• 1:14:59
  And that is the pattern.
• 1:15:01
  That's the pattern of your relationship.
• 1:15:03
  That's the pattern of your body.
• 1:15:04
  That's the pattern of your business.
• 1:15:06
  It's the pattern of your income.
• 1:15:08
  And I believe it's the exact pattern of COVID.
• 1:15:11
  Where we're at the end of winter is my belief.
• 1:15:14
  Yeah.
• 1:15:15
  And next is spring.
• 1:15:16
  And we're all waiting for spring.
• 1:15:17
  That's true.
• 1:15:19
  Well, Jim Rohn says, what do you do in the winter?
• 1:15:21
  You don't wish you were easier.
• 1:15:22
  You wish you were better.
• 1:15:24
  You double down on personal development.
• 1:15:27
  Now, mortgage right now is hottest heck.
• 1:15:30
  I would challenge anybody listening to this
• 1:15:33
  at this stage right now.
• 1:15:34
  Pretend it's 2007.
• 1:15:36
  What happened then, Jeff?
• 1:15:37
  Remember those days?
• 1:15:38
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:15:40
  It was hell.
• 1:15:41
  What, talk about it.
• 1:15:43
  Well, I mean, nobody was loaned in money.
• 1:15:45
  It's like, your number one thing you sell is money
• 1:15:48
  and no one's loaning money, you know?
• 1:15:50
  And it's just like, okay, people don't want to buy houses.
• 1:15:53
  They can't qualify.
• 1:15:54
  There is no money to loan them.
• 1:15:56
  People are foreclosing and RIOs left and right.
• 1:15:58
  And it's just blood in the streets, you know?
• 1:16:01
  Well, guess what, Jeff?
• 1:16:02
  I feel really bad for probably a huge portion
• 1:16:05
  of your audience that has never had the benefit
• 1:16:08
  of experiencing a recession.
• 1:16:11
  Yeah. That's when you found out.
• 1:16:13
  That's when you found out who you were.
• 1:16:15
  Exactly.
• 1:16:16
  That's when many people found out they got drunk on success.
• 1:16:20
  They thought it would never stop.
• 1:16:21
  They spent money like it would never stop coming in.
• 1:16:24
  Multiple home, bought the rollies, got the nice cars,
• 1:16:28
  and actually, you know, they're overlavered.
• 1:16:30
  They're business stopped and they're screwed.
• 1:16:32
  Yeah, you've, you've got to prepare for winter
• 1:16:34
  because it's, it's coming.
• 1:16:36
  Just a matter of what?
• 1:16:38
  I don't want to be doom and gloom,
• 1:16:39
  but I'm also, you have to be an idiot not to think that,
• 1:16:43
  you know, winter, spring, summer, fall.
• 1:16:44
  It is harvest time in the mortgage business.
• 1:16:48
  It is harvest.
• 1:16:49
  Run as hard as you can if you're listening to me right now.
• 1:16:53
  Do not stop running.
• 1:16:54
  Pretend it goes away tomorrow.
• 1:16:56
  Jeff, your business in 07 or 0607 0809 died.
• 1:17:03
  And along with probably 60% of the mortgage pros died
• 1:17:10
  because they were not prepared.
• 1:17:12
  They treated the abundance of business
• 1:17:15
  as it's gonna be here forever.
• 1:17:16
  And I'm not gonna burn the midnight oil
• 1:17:19
  because I need to go to the happy hour
• 1:17:21
  and drink my face off.
• 1:17:23
  Don't do that.
• 1:17:25
  Yeah, it's stock your money away, invest for the future.
• 1:17:28
  And thankfully, it's not that all over again,
• 1:17:31
  but everybody listening knows that, you know,
• 1:17:33
  well, if this year already,
• 1:17:35
  the refires are gonna taper off in the second half
• 1:17:36
  of the year and, you know, all that kind of stuff.
• 1:17:38
  But I think the best way, it's like you said, you know,
• 1:17:42
  are you getting better, right?
• 1:17:44
  Don't, you can't be bitter.
• 1:17:45
  You've got to get better, whatever that's saying is,
• 1:17:47
  you can't be better and bitter, whatever it is,
• 1:17:49
  but you've got to work on yourself.
• 1:17:50
  We all know that.
• 1:17:51
  So the point is go check out Jean's book,
• 1:17:54
  TheSalesEdge.co.
• 1:17:55
  We're gonna put a link to the show notes
• 1:17:57
  and follow him on LinkedIn as well
• 1:17:58
  because you do have some cool videos up there.
• 1:18:00
  And it's like you've done so much, man,
• 1:18:02
  when you even talk about your stuff,
• 1:18:03
  you've interviewed like all the people from Shark Tank
• 1:18:05
  and, you know, the whole chat homes thing.
• 1:18:09
  That's just an amazing experience you had there.
• 1:18:11
  Chat homes are one of the most successful,
• 1:18:14
  like amazing.
• 1:18:15
  You wanna learn about sales, read your book
• 1:18:17
  and also, if you don't mind, read Chets book, right?
• 1:18:20
  The ultimate sales machine.
• 1:18:21
  Yeah, so good.
• 1:18:23
  Yeah, phenomenal stuff.
• 1:18:24
  So, Jean, I can't think of you enough, man.
• 1:18:27
  Oh, this is, it's my pleasure.
• 1:18:28
  It certainly is.
• 1:18:29
  It's my pleasure to just get a share of a perspective
• 1:18:32
  and if this touched somebody out there great,
• 1:18:34
  but, you know, here's the moral of the story.
• 1:18:36
  Pretend it's going away tomorrow,
• 1:18:38
  work like it's not gonna last forever
• 1:18:40
  and you'll never be sorry.
• 1:18:42
  There you go, yep.
• 1:18:43
  Work your buns off, work on yourself,
• 1:18:46
  plug into a program.
• 1:18:48
  Don't treat this time in your business
• 1:18:50
  that's super hot as it's gonna last forever.
• 1:18:53
  There was a point where I thought,
• 1:18:54
  when I was at Gateway,
• 1:18:56
  that that company would never go away.
• 1:18:57
  We're a multi-billion dollar company
• 1:19:00
  and it was gone within five years.
• 1:19:03
  Like the seasons changed and the company globally
• 1:19:06
  did not change with the seasons.
• 1:19:10
  And it's a 11 billion dollar, 21,000 person company
• 1:19:14
  that had grown over 15 years was gone within six.
• 1:19:17
  Gone, G-O-N-E, gone.
• 1:19:21
  And what's, why do you think they've gone?
• 1:19:23
  Like what was the thing that really,
• 1:19:25
  I mean, there must have been market forces or whatever
• 1:19:27
  or was it just internal?
• 1:19:28
  They didn't pivot or adapt or what was it?
• 1:19:30
  There was a disruption in the market.
• 1:19:32
  There was an over investment into retail.
• 1:19:36
  You know, we were traditionally a call us,
• 1:19:38
  we'll build your computer and we'll ship it to you.
• 1:19:41
  We had a manufacturing facility in Norse City, South Dakota.
• 1:19:44
  It was very inexpensive.
• 1:19:46
  Like our overhead was super low.
• 1:19:48
  The new CEO came in and doubled down on retail.
• 1:19:53
  Like retail buildings where you have leases
• 1:19:55
  and heat bills and employees and, and, and,
• 1:20:00
  we opened 300 stores in a matter of two years
• 1:20:03
  and a recession hit.
• 1:20:07
  The owner of the company was worth, I don't know,
• 1:20:11
  $20 billion, you know, semi-retired
• 1:20:13
  and then brought in a CEO who doubled down on retail
• 1:20:18
  and we had a recession and we got,
• 1:20:20
  we were thinking summer, like summer was never gonna end.
• 1:20:24
  Harvest time was never gonna end
• 1:20:26
  and I was running the government division
• 1:20:27
  so I wasn't part of the demise on the decision crew
• 1:20:31
  but when a recession hits and now you've got
• 1:20:36
  almost 400 retail stores around the world,
• 1:20:38
  you can't just shut down a retail store.
• 1:20:40
  You've got long-term leases.
• 1:20:41
  You've got overhead that is there
• 1:20:43
  and that began the demise of, of a company
• 1:20:48
  that was a Wall Street darling through the 90s
• 1:20:50
  that the stock split, I think four times
• 1:20:53
  it might have been more, runs to 80 splits,
• 1:20:55
  goes 40 back to 80, a lot of millionaires made
• 1:20:59
  and I, I never thought in my life
• 1:21:01
  that I would work for another company besides Gateway.
• 1:21:04
  I bled the cow spots.
• 1:21:07
  And it was gone.
• 1:21:09
  Wow, see that's, you just never know.
• 1:21:10
  So it's the, what, it's, what can you can control?
• 1:21:13
  You can control you, control how you respond.
• 1:21:16
  You can control working on yourself, you know,
• 1:21:18
  and who you surround yourself with.
• 1:21:20
  So, you become your peer group, yep.
• 1:21:22
  That's why listening to these things are so important.
• 1:21:25
  Well, I hope this has been a good one for the listeners.
• 1:21:26
  I know I've thoroughly enjoyed it.
• 1:21:28
  I got a bunch of notes and like I said,
• 1:21:30
  man, I'm gracious for your time
• 1:21:31
  and I'm incredibly busy, so thank you.
• 1:21:33
  Awesome, I am super busy going to my 10-year-olds
• 1:21:37
  basketball game.
• 1:21:39
  That's another pleasure of this virtual working.
• 1:21:41
  I have not missed a practice.
• 1:21:42
  I have not missed a game for almost a year now
• 1:21:44
  and I'm super freaking proud of that.
• 1:21:46
  It's awesome. Good for you, man.
• 1:21:48
  Well, let me sign off to you and the listeners.
• 1:21:49
  Thank you for tuning in.
• 1:21:50
  If you like this episode, you know what to do.
• 1:21:52
  Leave us a review.
• 1:21:53
  Gene will be in touch, man. Take care.
• 1:21:55
  Peace out. Rock and roll.
• 1:21:56
  See you, Jeff.
• 1:21:57
  Bye for now.
• 1:21:58
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