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The Hidden Mental Health Side of Menopause Nobody Talks About w/ Karyn Rosenberg | 009 · The Midlife Pivot

• The Midlife Pivot: Today on the Midlife Pivot, we're talking about a part of menopause that doesn't always get nearly enough attention, the impact it can have on our mental and emotional health. We hear so much about the physical symptoms, the hot flashes, the night sweats, the changes in our body, and disrupted sleep. But what about the anxiety that suddenly seems to come out of nowhere? The irritability, the brain fog. The loss of confidence, changes in relationships, or that simply unsettling feeling of I just don't feel like myself anymore. Our guest today, Karen Rosenberg, understands just how significant this transition can be. Karen is a licensed psychotherapist with more than 27 years of clinical experience, specializing in areas including reproductive and perinatal mental health. Grief and loss, trauma of and major life transitions, but more recently, she has brought that experience to an area that is finally getting the attention it deserves. The emotional and psychological impact of perimenopause and menopause. Through her work with women, Karen helps us understand what may be happening emotionally during this stage of life and can give us tools to manage anxiety, mood changes, sleep issues. Changes of self-esteem and relationships and ultimately to reconnect with ourselves. And because the midlife pivot is all about that chapter, not simply as something we have to get through, but as an opportunity to understand ourselves differently, we couldn't think of a better conversation to have. Karen, we're so happy to have you here. Welcome to the Midlife Pivot. Welcome. We are Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: Aw, you guys are so cute. I love it. I'm just like my heart is like just so warm and fuzzy right now. The Midlife Pivot: you're so sweet. Well, you're so sweet. You know it, Karen. We found this platform and the two of us are having so much fun. before we got started with the record, we were chatting about this event we went to today, which was this Teach Give Inspire TGIF. We had Barbara Goodeman on the show and And both mum and I said just to constantly be surrounded with women that are pretty much in the same space that we're in and hearing different people have different perspectives on how they're managing and handling and doing amazing things. And also what's important is professional advice. Yes. From somebody who understands and who meets with the with women and can give us a perspective that we don't have. Yeah, and you know it's it's interesting because I think that this area, and you'll obviously, you know, we'll we'll delve into it, is something that is so untouched. And I just know I've been fortunate enough to have my own mental health professional that I work with, and and I know that we talk about this a lot because you know it tends to kind of get ignored. We we kind of put it aside, we're dealing with all the physical changes, but we have to get back to the thought that mentally There is an impact that it has on us, and how do we address that? So, with that introduction, we wanted to kind of bring it over to you. We have some questions that we're gonna pose to you. We'd love to hear your professional advice and just to understand, you know, you've been in the space now, and we just would love to understand what you see with clients and patients. The big picture. Let's go for it. When women think about Perimenopause and menopause, we tend to focus on the physical symptoms. What is happening emotionally and psychologically during this transition that we don't talk about enough? How can you address this? Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: Absolutely. And I think it's, you know, kudos that you're bringing this as part of the conversation. I am so grateful to be able to share some information and have this conversation with you all. I I think of like the menopause transition is over a very long period of time, right? It isn't like you go to sleep one day and the next day you wake up and I'm in I'm in menopause. It's not like that. It is a transition. It can Be even over a decade for a lot of people. That's kind of the average. So it's surprising for people when I'm seeing them when they're presented in my office and even in you know varying ages. A client recently in her early 40s and just not understanding what was going on coming in. I'm not feeling like myself, as you said, or I'm a lot of anxiety. That many times that is how it presents, at least in my office, you know, emotionally. That's kind of the big thing. I'm feeling I never was an anxious person. And all of a sudden I'm anxious. I'm anxious when my husband's driving. I'm anxious. I'm anxious about what my kids are doing. I'm anxious about what's happening tomorrow. The Midlife Pivot: Yeah. Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: And for many, that was never something that they felt. So that's kind of an emotional indicator that that pops up, which is part of it. It's a big part of it. The Midlife Pivot: Yeah. Right. And I think that's how I felt. I kind of, you I posed this question to myself, I just don't feel like myself anymore. You know, I just feel and we hear women say this in midlife all the time, you know, we constantly hear that being said, that suddenly, as you just said, that one feels a little bit more anxious, emotional, irritable. Why can men menopause affect our mental health so profoundly? And how do we begin distinguishing hormonal changes from everything else that's happening in our lives? Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: Right. So I I think what's been so great over the past few years, and that's really when I started doing kind of the deep dive, learning much more, attending conferences and and reading books and understanding it. It was really, you know, especially in the work as you mentioned, doing reproductive mental health, we see clients in the fertility space that many times were diagnosed with menopause early. They went into an early, The Midlife Pivot: Yes. Mm-hmm. Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: premature time in their life, even in their thirties, which is you know, or or or some clients The Midlife Pivot: Devastating. Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: very, very and and and that's I know a whole other conversation. So although I've just been doing in the last few years, it's really been something throughout my practice that a lot of us have s been seeing anyway, so it really is a natural continuation of of the work that I do. So the first thing I I always believe is r ruling out anything medical, getting the hormones checked, seeing your healthcare professional And and then the conversation can begin. One of the challenges I think that's happening now that not every healthcare professional really understands what's going on. So if you could find somebody that specializes in the the we'll just c the call it the menopause transition from mere perimenopause to menopause because even going through perimenopause it doesn't mean and again I'm speaking out of my lane a little bit because I'm not a I do not prescribe hormones, but it doesn't mean you automatically just go on a hormone, but you could start the conversation with The Midlife Pivot: Yes. Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: your healthcare professional because quite possibly through some other evidence-based support through a mental health professional or other strategies that may help you if early in the process. So because I it actually came up recently with my own midwife that I see when she she knows that I'm doing this work and she said it's people because it's a buzzword right now, The Midlife Pivot: Yeah. Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: many are going to see their professionals, healthcare professionals, just put me on hormones, put me on hormones. And for many that is absolutely The appropriate thing to do and to not be afraid of that and to have the conversation. But there's also, in addition, so many other things we can do too when it may be that you're feeling anxious and it could be mental health. It may not always be due to perimenopause or menopause too. Right. The Midlife Pivot: Right, right. And I think that is kind of what we were thinking about as the as the next question. Yes, that would be my next question. You've answered it completely. It's yeah. So it's your turn, Amanda. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, we as we said, anxiety does seem to be a particularly big issue. And I think what we don't do is we tend to neglect our mental health. We tend to take care of the physical. We tend to ca take care of, as you say, everyone talks about, you know, the buzzword, getting onto HRT and making sure that we're taking care of ourselves that way. But the mental aspect of it tends to be neglected. And that's what we're trying to educate people is don't be ashamed to recognize that not only is your body going through changes, but so is your mental health. And addressing that, you know, addressing that. And that really takes me into the next thing, the perfect storm. We talk about this per you know, this perfect storm. Where at the same time our hormones are changing, and many of us are dealing with aging parents, children leaving home, career changes, marriage or divorce, changing bodies. I mean, I feel like I literally threw myself at 50 into that perfect storm. I had everything happening to me and I can relate with so many women and as I talk to my friends who are all in the same boat. I mean we get to you know 50 and beyond and our kids have left home, our parents are aging and we're fortunate enough to have our parents you know living longer. Whereas in the past, you know, our parents died younger, you know, by 60s, 70s, they, you know, I mean you lose your parents. So with us having our parents at 85 and 91 is such a blessing. But We're now having to deal with all of that as well as seeing these physical changes. So how would you recommend helping women separate what may be menopause from what may be simply this emo this like enormous emotional load at this stage of life, which is kind of what you answered before, but give us more a little bit more perspective on that. Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: For sure. You are 100% spot on, you know, being a therapist that has specialized in grief and loss, right? And through helping people through transitions in life, here you are now at this phase of life that it's a blessing and it's a beautiful thing to have aging parents, but also then comes, you know, God willing, your your aging parent is very healthy. But when they are having some challenges or potentially going to appointments and helping, there can be kind of for some not You gu you guys seem like you're doing incredible, but there's can be some of this role reversal, right? I mean, how many I have clients that The Midlife Pivot: Yeah, absolutely. Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: are in their 80s and they're like, my gosh, I'm driving myself to your office. Why is my daughter checking my location and seeing what I'm doing and making sure I, know, like The Midlife Pivot: Sounds familiar, Nisik, doesn't it? Yeah. Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: Right? It's this reversal of because now that there is that sense of responsibility and and feeling, you know, just wanting to keep your eyes on. And I I have a client I'll at this, she's she's 90. God bless her. She just turned 90. She's incredible. And she wears a the little like help I fallen, but I can't get up. And she had fallen, not in my office, but she came in to tell me the next week about it. And she did not tell her two sons about it. And she forgot to press the button. And she said, I never told them. them I think they would because she lives she she lives alone she has some help The Midlife Pivot: Still lives alone. Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: during the day it was the funniest story she said why would I tell them there's I said well you may just want to like let them know everything's fine The Midlife Pivot: Yeah. Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: and you're good but this is you know but also you have the button maybe press it next time it was really The Midlife Pivot: Right. Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: really funny but I guess you had to be there but it it really is a this kind of culmination of of that empty nesting aging parents and and for Some, if that's been your identity, right? For for I've had clients that The Midlife Pivot: Mm-hmm. Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: that they've taken mom as their identity has been the most incredible thing ever. And I respect that. Maybe they stopped working to raise their kids and now they've launched, right? There's the the launching of your kids. That's what we're supposed to do. You have children, and the minute they start crawling, it's like the little goodbye that happens throughout. They become independent throughout The Midlife Pivot: Absolutely. Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: their life to the launch. That's what we're supposed to do, right? Help them with their work. Wings. And if that's been your whole identity, then what? Your kids are off and gone, college or wherever they are, hopefully, productive members of society, and and parents then become part of the identity. Maybe the parents don't want your full attention. if you're lucky to have your parents, for some who maybe don't have their parents, they really are at this like identity crisis of I just don't know what to do with myself anymore. This is right. The Midlife Pivot: Yeah. I mean look Karen, this was me. That is and that is why that that's why this became such a relevant mission for me to be able to start this podcast. Because I was literally at that. I had had a thirty year career, I gave that up because of COVID and and circumstance and empty nesting was devastating. And I really went through five years of You know, from fifty to fifty-five, I went through these five years of navigating this black hole. You know, my youngest had left. stopped working, I was experiencing all the symptoms of menopause, and then my marriage failed. And although somebody said to me the other day, and I love this, she said to me, No, Amanda, your marriage didn't fail, your marriage fizzled out. And it did, and that's okay. And I think that by accepting The mental aspect of it. And by working with a phenomenal therapist, I gave myself the launching pad to launch myself and give myself this platform to be able to bring it to others because there must be, believe you me, if it's happening to me, it's happening to everybody else. And most people just don't talk about it. I happen to be an open book and I happen to want to share it because I want to give people a safe space to recognize. that they're not alone. We talk about this all the time. My youngest often says to me, she goes, Mom, maybe, maybe your marriage ended because this was time for you to take care of Granny and Grandpa. And I like all worked at the same time. I didn't see that. And I said, no, I didn't. But we, you know, you guys what do I say every single week on this podcast, you have to make lemonade out of lemons. And that was how I looked at it. And it it was true. I was splitting my time between Florida and Maryland, you know, and now I'm here and I get to see my parents every Single day. I am so blessed. I am so lucky, and I don't take it for granted. So, you know, providing that, and but but I make time for me. So as much as I'm doing in being able to help them through this next stage, you know, this next chapter, I still give myself, time for me, whether it be my session with my mental health therapist, or whether it be a massage once, you know, once a month, or whether it be Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: Self care. The Midlife Pivot: that self-care, which is Then on to the next one. No, this is all part of the conversation. Yeah. Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: wait, I have to ask a I have to ask you guys a question. What is it like as a as a mom, as the mom, the matriarch, having your daughter back? Like you as we're talking about launching, right, we talk about the boomerang kids that the a lot of 20-year-olds who come back after college. What's it like for you having her back? The Midlife Pivot: Well, let me tell you something. I never lost her. She was always there. And that's her personality. Amanda's always been there. So whether it's age or whether it's whatever. She's always been there for us. And that's her. But even like during this podcast, she said to me, you know, Mom, I said, You've got a voice. Say it. Talk to people, tell them, bring people in. No, I don't know. And I said, I'll tell you what. I'll do it with you. So it became like a partnership because I know that she can draw people to help other people. And what I love about my mom is that she it's given her a purpose. Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: Totally. The Midlife Pivot: You know, and I love that part of it. We we're taking care of my dad, but it's given my mom a purpose. And I felt that she became this caregiver and now she's found her own self care. And this, believe it or not, is her self care. Whether it be looking as gorgeous as she does and putting on her jewelry and making Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: I mean, come on. The Midlife Pivot: up her face but it is and I love that Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: Yeah. The Midlife Pivot: aspect of it. So it doesn't necessarily have to be and that's what we keep on saying. Midlife is really it's that second chapter from fifty to a hundred. Yeah. And that's how we kind of You know that's how we we look at it. Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: Like Jen Sherman, the back nine, right? I love that, fellow Pelotoner. Back nine era. The Midlife Pivot: Right yes, yes. My Peloton, my Peloton of friend, exactly, exactly. But that is so true. Yeah, and it is. It's kind of managing this back nine. for those of you that aren't familiar with the golf reference, it you know, the back nine in your eighteen holes. But that's what we're at. We're on the we're on that back nine. Okay. The question that I was gonna ask, I think has been answered. I was gonna say you specialise in grief and loss as well as menopause, which is such an interesting intersection. Is there a form of grief that can accompany menopause? The loss of our younger self, fertility, certain roles, or even the identity we've carried for decades? Mm. Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: That's such a good question. Yes. Yeah, I I think that thinking about midlife and menopause doesn't have to be approached as a crisis of loss, but rather it could be considered like thinking about as a period of reflection and reinvention, reevaluation, and clarity about, right? So, I mean, because there's grief, there's like little grief, and then there's big grief, obviously, the of of what we navigate. In life. and I try to look at things through a lens very much of obviously gratitude, but from a lens of like from an existential perspective, not to get too like in the weeds with it, but you know, our existence and who we are and our meaning and purpose of life, it just changes everything, which is why this you all doing this is given this meaning and purpose. That's the lens that I often people ask me, what c what's my theory, I I look at it kind of that way. So thinking about menopause and this transition and evolution of these the this phase of life, when you have more meaning and purpose, boy, it sure helps. It helps tremendously. So when I'm working with clients that are grieving there, when their kids are not in their home anymore or or a marriage has now there are different touch points that happen in relationships and marriages. And that's this is one of them for many it's after it may be the during the pre the early years after people have children it's like a whole new thing in the marriage and then The Midlife Pivot: Right. Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: it may be the teen years or parenting and that impacts the marriage and often it's right after when kids leave and so when looking at what the relationship and that evolution now of of a single person there is grief that comes with that but what also can can bring that meaning and purpose so you can grieve at the same time and The Midlife Pivot: Yeah. I never really thought of it from the perspective of fertility. And you know, you've been in the fertility space as well as as as was I. And yeah, we used to tell patients, sorry, at fifty one, you know, our age cutoff for somebody carrying, it was forty something to to use your own eggs, forty-four, I believe, was the age cutoff that we had at Shady Grove, and and it was fifty-one to be able to carry, you know, a a donor egg. And I never thought of it from that perspective. You know, suddenly you get to that stage of your life, and you know, you know, you you we don't we don't want we don't want women over 50 to be having children because you know then what are you giving them? you know, how many years of yourself Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: Sure. The Midlife Pivot: are you giving? But I never thought of it from that perspective of loss, of suddenly, like, I'm yeah, it's another another aspect of this, you know, second stage of our lives, in that the loss of fertility. Very interesting. yeah, so that also takes us on to kind of the next thing, which is about And identity. Why can a woman who has spent decades feeling capable and confident suddenly begin questioning herself during the stage? And what can she do to rebuild that sense of self? And I want to preface that also by saying, and I mentioned it on last week's episode, in that we don't have to reinvent ourselves. I don't want people to sit watching or listening to this podcast thinking, my god, I have to reinvent myself. You know, it's not. Not question of that. Give us advice as to how we can just navigate, this this confidence that we want to bring out in ourselves without feeling this incessant need to reinvent ourselves. Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: my goodness, absolutely. such an important question because I think what we're talking about is like the self-esteem piece that happens of questioning, you know, I was so good at everything I did before, I was the momager that they, you know, that's the term now, manager, mommager, right? The Midlife Pivot: Yes. Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: I did all of it, I could multitask, I am woman, hear me roar, and now all of a sudden like I don't even know what is happening. And I think by normalizing and validating that this is a That typically happens for lots of people. When we approach mental health, to go back to what you were saying earlier, the same as physical health, when we can universalize the conversations, then it really does make people feel less like there's something wrong with me. It's like, this is almost what is The Midlife Pivot: Yeah, yeah. Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: what is to expect. This is kind of part of this process. I'm just entering a new phase of it all. You know, you go through the awkward phase when you're the pre-teen teen years. Well, this is kind of a different awkward phase of yeah, of just figuring out The Midlife Pivot: Awkwardness, right? Yeah. Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: kind of a new thing and and and kind of get getting the kicking the training wheels off the bike to like soar in this phase of life now that it may take it and it doesn't mean everybody, like you said, needs to create a podcast. I mean I created one too and I'm learning to play bass guitar The Midlife Pivot: I love that. Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: and I'm doing, you know, my I have my tribute band podcast, Borrow Notes Authentic Lives, Shameless Plug, check it out if you love music. The Midlife Pivot: I love it. Go for it. Go for it. Absolutely. Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: I'm kidding. so you know, it just may be like quieting down. It may be people who've stopped working that they ran so hard for so long. Like I can allow myself to have quiet space. I'm just gonna enjoy my day reading. Maybe I'll see a friend for coffee, maybe I won't, and that's okay. There's The Midlife Pivot: that and I love that I love that you're validating that because that was something that I was getting questions. People were asking me and I said you as you said that mama just such you we manage our kids. We were you know schlepping them to baseball games and you know football games and soccer games and this and and and all of a sudden they go and now what do I do? But you know it's just making time for oneself. And that's so important. Let alone the children. To me, what I want to ask you is relationships between husband and wife can change during menopause. Between mood changes, exhaustion, body images, changes in intimacy. Partners don't always understand what's happening. What advice would you give a woman about communicating what they need and what do you wish their partners to understand? Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: it's such an important question. So often when I have a client coming into my office, the person that needs to be there isn't in the office, right? It's like The Midlife Pivot: Yep. Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: doing relationship counseling with one person because we're part of a system. We we The Midlife Pivot: Yeah. Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: may be that individual, but we are interconnected to those that are around us. So that partner or spouse is very much a part of the equation and communication is key. It's it I I cannot stress how important it is to be able to communicate and ask for what you need and not feel guilty and not feel badly like you shouldn't be. No shoulds. There's no shoulds with any of this. And right? The Midlife Pivot: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean that is you couldn't have said it any better. All right. So going Into a little bit more about you and your techniques in what you do. you use both traditional psychotherapy and clinical hypnotherapy in your work. How can therapies such as CBT and hypnotherapy help women manage things like anxiety, sleep problems, heart flashes, and emotional regulation? And for someone who's never experienced hypnotherapy. therapy, what does it actually look and feel like? Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: they've been doing a lot of research over the years are what are the evidence-based clinical approaches that a mental health professional can do to help somebody that's in the menopause transition that they've studied and studied. And the two are cognitive behavior therapy and clinical hypnotherapy. So I've been a certified hypnotherapist since I started my practice, right after. I guess maybe it's like 26 years or so now. And and really the reason. I and it sounds real. I'll talk about that verse hypnotherapy because people are always so curious. What is it? What does it look like? The Midlife Pivot: Yeah. Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: It is not what you think of when you go on a cruise ship and the person's on stage and they're going like this and you're gonna turn into a chicken. Not that. It's not that's a myth, The Midlife Pivot: Right, right. Hypnize hypnotize you. Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: that is entertainment. And the people that all of a sudden like act like a chicken, they maybe wanted to act like a chicken. That's why they do it. The guy didn't do anything to them to make them turn The Midlife Pivot: Yeah. Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: into a chicken. Trust me. So there's some myths about it, like it's mind control. I'm doing something to you. It's really not. You mentioned meditation earlier. When I talk about hypnotherapy with my clients, and the reason why I, I was trying to say the reason why I became a certified hypnotherapist was to use as a complimentary approach to counseling. It's amazing for anxiety and stress. It is just such a great intervention that I love using as a complimentary approach to anxiety and stress. Now, over the years, people say, you do hypnotherapy. Can you help me with smoking cessation? Can you help me with the fear of flying on a plane? Absolutely. The Midlife Pivot: Right. Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: And it's great for a lot of phobias and and things like that. It's wonderful. Great for pain management. And in the fertility world, for there's a lot around anxiety and fertility, or with the grief and loss world with pain management, if people are having treatment and navigating. So there are a lot of great tools for hypnotherapy. But what it looks like Like is very similar to meditation and mindfulness. I that's how The Midlife Pivot: Okay. Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: I try to describe it to my clients. Anyone really can be hypnotized because it's all self hypnosis. I'm just guiding, I'm not doing anything. The Midlife Pivot: Okay. Yeah, yeah. Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: So think of it like a meditation or guided imagery, but with a very specific focus, suggestions that are specific to what we're working on, where some meditation is clear your mind. mind let your empty all thoughts this is different i might be doing very directed thoughts so to speak or helping guide you under and what it you lie down in my particular office i have like a big comfy like a love seat with like an ottoman they lie down i put nice spa music on it's total self-care it's super relaxing and i just kind of guide you on this little journey using visualization breath work imagery and And maybe some anchoring techniques and then specific suggestions to work on. So with the way it intersects with menopause. So hot flashes is one of the things people complain about a lot. So there The Midlife Pivot: Mm-hmm. Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: are visualizations that we can do to help with hot flashes. And it's amazing. I had a client come in in the last month, come in one time, and it's short-term, you know. Hypnotherapy doesn't need to be like this long-term psychotherapy process. It can be Pretty brief. I record it on their phone. They can listen to it afterwards, and it's helpful. Mm-hmm. The Midlife Pivot: Amazing. Yeah, that's amazing. Wow. It's interesting, Mom. I don't know if you if you even listen with with Karen chatting and hearing this, it's it's kind of how the different the different sessions or interviews we've had with different people have all kind of intertwined with each other. Because a lot of what Thalia had said in our our week with her was How acupuncture has done the same thing. So it's really taking all these wonderful resources that are out there and making them work for us the best that we can. And I love that. I love that maybe the acupuncture doesn't work, or maybe it does, or maybe we do both. You know, maybe we have the ability to try the hypnotherapy and the it's phenomenal. I just love how everything kind of interchanges with one another. yeah, amazing. To wrap things up, we're going to ask you, you know, we always like to bring it back to the idea of the pivot. I mean, that's kind of the name of the show, and we w we like to kind of bring it back to that. But rather than using or viewing menopause as something that's happening to us. How can women begin to see this transition as an opportunity to reassess what they want, let go of what no longer serves them, and step into the next chapter with more confidence? Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: Yeah, it is very much about transition, both the menopause transition and just transitioning as we're pivoting. Pivot when we think of a pivot, it's like right, a c a quick move. But nothing is really a quick move. It's it is thinking about what we want those next steps to look like and knowing that it may take some fumbling and some steps along the way to get there. And that's okay too. It's the key is just exploring. I think of it really as an exploration. Of seeing what sticks, thinking about, you know, your kids when they're younger and you introduce them to maybe they'll like dance, maybe they'll like sports, maybe they'll want to sing, act. Who The Midlife Pivot: Right. Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: knows what's gonna stick? So it may be just The Midlife Pivot: Yeah. Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: exploring, I am looking within self of the things that I want. And also I encourage clients to think about well, what what were you before that you kind of like let go of and maybe put aside that you want to bring back to you? The Midlife Pivot: Bring back. Yes, yes. Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: Yeah. The Midlife Pivot: And that is so true. And I think, yeah, I mean, even I discovered some of that. and you certainly have. When I think about you and not even, you know, metaphors, but when I think about how you were always so creative. And and in South Africa, you, you know, you had your business and you made your clothing and you took that creativity and you started painting. Yeah. And I look at I mean, yeah, at at eighty she started painting or seventy-nine and she is this unbelievable, and it just gives her that space that you know, those couple hours, but it was something that she brought back. Even at that stage. So again, that's why I'm saying there's no like right or wrong time that we look at. It really is. Wow. I mean that is just amazing, amazing. And look at the joy your art's given you. I mean, when when my my son, he just moved into his own apartment and he came to my mom and he said, Granny, do you think you can can I go through your paintings and can you give me a couple My twenty-nine year old son has three of my mother's paintings in his apartment and it just I I walk in every day and my heart just like bursts because What more? I mean, all my grandchildren have something of some. It's true. But I mean Aaron Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: That's so special. The Midlife Pivot: was the most the most recent because he just moved a couple months ago. And the fact that he went to my mom and he sadly went through all and I mean they're beautiful. She's got beautiful watercolors and it was the fact that he wanted to have that. And how incredible is that? Yeah, and it looks beautiful. And they look beautiful. We'll have to pop up a picture to show you guys. anything that Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: Absolutely. my gosh, that's special. The Midlife Pivot: you feel that we've we've missed out. I do have a closing question. But before I Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: Sure. The Midlife Pivot: get to that, anything that you feel that we've left out in the questions that we've asked you, I think we've covered a lot. I think we did. That's it. Well, that that was my question. So my closing question to you was Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: I feel good about what we covered. Just stay curious and be open and don't be too hard on yourself. Don't be too hard on yourself. The Midlife Pivot: for women listening today who are struggling and thinking, who am I now? I don't recognize myself. What would you want them to hear? Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: be kind to yourself. It we are especially The Midlife Pivot: Yeah. Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: women, we are we have all these expectations. We are so hard on ourselves. And and I think some right, I think sometimes The Midlife Pivot: Yeah. Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: we just have to allow ourselves that same kindness so often that we share and show and give outward, bring it inward. Like they They always say, how would you speak to your closest friend? Speak You should really be that closest person. You should be really treating yourself in that way. and then if you decide that you want to go talk to somebody, I feel like everybody should talk to somebody. It's just again, it's a normal part. Our The Midlife Pivot: I agree, I agree. Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: friends are great. We can have a wonderful support system. But sometimes having that person to just kind of be there, you know, unbiased is a really helpful thing through life and all the things of life. The Midlife Pivot: yeah. That's been wonderful. Wonderful. I mean, and I agree. I I look at, you know, even y you get to speak to your mom, you get to speak to your siblings, you get to speak to your friends, but there's sometimes always a slight sense of judgment or you know, they're not kind of you that unbiased. That's what I love. That was the kind of the key that I wanted to take away. Somebody that is unbiased. And I think again, normalizing mental health therapy. And it doesn't matter whether you're a teen, whether you're an you know a young adult, you know, I push my kids constantly and say, just speak to someone. It's it just gives an unbiased perspective. And that is how I want to end because I think you've given such an amazing valuable tool for Anybody, n women, men whoever's listening to the show, to really walk away from the saying, It's okay to not be okay and how do we deal with it? And I must say, Karen, you have the most unbelievable warmth that comes right through where you listen and you say, That's right, that's right. So thank you, thank you, thank you. Well, we really appreciate you taking the time. I was so excited when you reached out and you know, and and we had met a while ago and it was fun to, you know, I'm having all these people come back into my life and I'm loving it. I said if anything else, I'm like creating my network Karyn Rosenberg, LCSW, PMH-C: Ha. The Midlife Pivot: is be you know, is is growing and bringing everyone and bringing everyone back in. So we so appreciate you giving of your time. I think this is such a valuable, another valuable resource for those folks that are taking the time to listen and with us saying about taking the time. To listen, we do appreciate that you guys do you know, log on each week and get to hear what we have to offer you. We encourage you to continue commenting and sharing the podcast because we want more people to have the access to these valuable resources that we're providing to people. So make sure that you subscribe, that you log on, that you whichever platform you guys end up choosing, make sure that you listen every week and we will see you next time. Next time.