Latest / Craft Brewery Financial Training Podcast / Secret Hopper Taproom Data That Drives Dollars

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Secret Hopper Taproom Data That Drives Dollars · Craft Brewery Financial Training Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Today on the podcast we talked Tapram Data with Andrew Copeland from Secret Hopper.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to share the top two or three common threads of a truly great guest experience.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: What should you do, when should you do it, and what does the data say?
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to talk about missed opportunities when it comes to engaging guests, the power of small moments, and how data is such a big part of what Secret Hopper does.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: Andrew's going to share the key metrics that Taprooms should be tracking that often get overlooked.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: So for now, please enjoy this conversation with Andrew Copeland from Secret Hopper.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Kraft Brewery Financial Training Podcast, where we combine beer and numbers to provide you with tips, tactics, and strategies so that you can improve financial results in your brewery.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Kerry Shemway, a CPA, CFO for a brewery, and a former CFO for a beer distributor.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: I've spent the last 20 years using finance to improve financial results in our beer business.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: Now I'm helping other craft breweries to do the same.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: Are you ready to take your brewery financial results to the next level?
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, let's get started.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: Just a quick note, and we'll be right back to the podcast.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: I want to let you know about a new network for beer industry professionals.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's called the Beer Business Finance Association.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's an organization of financial pros, just like you, looking to improve financial results, increase profitability, connect with your peers, and share best practices.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd love to tell you a little bit more about this.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: If you are interested in learning more, please email me, Carrie at Beer Business Finance dot com.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's K-A-R-Y at beer businessfinance.com, or you can visit BBFassociation.org.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's BBFassociation.org to learn more.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: Andrew Copeland, welcome to the Craftbury Financial Training Show podcast.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: We're video, we're audio, we are all over the place.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: How are you doing?
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: We're in the 21st century, Carrie.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: Not quite, not quite, but we're getting close.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: So what's going on today?
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: I am doing well.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: Excited to be back on your podcast.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: I know we talk all the time, but it's always an honor and fun when you lead the conversation.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: You have me on your show.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's gonna be fun for me too.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: So for folks who may not be familiar with you and what you do, why don't you give them some background?
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I got in the industry about a decade ago.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: I ran a food service for nearly 20 years, working at stadiums and arenas all across the country.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: And whether I was working at a baseball game or a monster truck show, I had the belief that it's about more than just the action you're watching or the food on your plate.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: So at the same time, I was also a beer fan.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I was a homebrewer, I traveled for it.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: It was taking more and more time in my life.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I had this idea that, like all the events that I was working, the brewery experience was about more than just the beer.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: And in 2017, a lot of people had that if you brew it, they will come mentality.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: And as we know, that's changed a little bit.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: But we launched Secret Hopper, which is a mystery shopping company with breweries designed to help breweries collect tap room data to help maximize both the guest and staff experience to create more repeat customers and higher tabs.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: And that was in 2017 when we launched that.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: And the industry's changed quite a bit since then.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: And tap room data is more important than ever.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: It is more important than ever.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: So tell us a little bit about, I mean, in concept, that's you know, but I think people get it, like a you know, secret shopper, somebody's going in and they're undercover.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: But maybe give us some of the the details.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like how does this work exactly?
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a great question.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: So from the shopper side, and who wouldn't want to get paid to visit a tap room?
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: So that that's the model for the guests we're gonna send to tap rooms all across the country.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: So someone's gonna sign up for Secret Hopper, they're gonna get emailed an invitation to visit a tap room that we're working with.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: And typically when they go, they're going to have a flight followed by a pint and sometimes food items.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: We really love including the flight, and I imagine we might dive into it later because it's a great opportunity for staff to engage with the guests.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: But the goal really is for staff to experience the tap room, the atmosphere.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: They're gonna experience your staff behind the bar.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: They're gonna, of course, give you feedback and enjoy, well, they're gonna enjoy your beer, but that's not where our feedback is strictly based.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: But they're gonna complete a questionnaire between 25 to 50 data points following it.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: Then we give this to brewery owners that we work with, and ideally they're going to review that as a report.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: And each month they're gonna receive feedback from four unique tap room visits across different levels of busyness, different team members, different days of the week, different time slots.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: So ideally, all of you brewery owners and tap room managers, you're busy, you'll be able to read the report pretty quickly and be like, okay, you know, Andrew needs a little more coaching on a better engaging with staff or guests.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: Or Carrie did a wonderful job engaging with the guests on Saturday afternoon.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: So our goal is to provide tap room owners and managers data that can help them improve that tap room experience because it's challenging right out there right now, and everybody's trying to get more buttons seats and higher tabs, and we're seeing brewery owners across the country use that data to get those results.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's it's an unlock too, because you have so many people coming into your tap room, and let's face it, most people, whether their experience is good or bad or neutral, are not volunteering that information to you as the owner.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they'll tell their friends, but you know, you'd so it's sort of like this black box of what are they actually thinking?
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: What's the experience?
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I think the service makes a lot of sense from that regard, right?
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: Because they're all out there.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: I want to know what has their experience been and how can we improve it.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: And we start at the very beginning of the experience with someone greeted when they walked into your tap room with a welcoming gesture or hello.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: And we take it to the very end where they thanked upon leaving those bookends of the experience, the initial greeting and the final goodbye.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: If you miss out on both of those, someone's gonna leave with a sour taste in their mouth after visiting your tap room.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's so important for people to simply feel appreciated.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: Because when people feel appreciated and enjoy spending time with you, two such simple things to say, right, Carrie?
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: But when you achieve those two things, people spend more money and they come back sooner.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: These are the things we want.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: So say a little bit more about the questions.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: So you said, you know, people will go into your tap room and they've got a list of quote, like how does that list come about and um how is that formulated?
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, great question.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: So we have two essentially standard versions of our questionnaire we use.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: We use one for general tap rooms that only have beverage, and we use one where we have food involved in there.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: So no tap room experience is the same.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: So we have those base questionnaires, but when we work with a brewery, our goal is to customize it for that individual business.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: So, Carrie, if your brewery you know has certain goals, we can work questions in there to make sure we're collecting the data that you want.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's a hundred percent customizable.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: But with regard to the questions that happen, we're looking at objective things.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: Did Carrie introduce himself?
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's gonna be a yes or no.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: Did Carrie offer recommendations?
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's a yes or no.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: How long did it take for me to receive my flight?
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: Was it you know less than 60 seconds, which would be probably not even realistic, or did it take 12 minutes?
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna tell you the things that either happened or they didn't happen and how long it took to happen.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because anytime you allow really anyone to put their own feedback in there, you have to take it with a grain of salt.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: And we do have a few questions where we get that subjective feedback from the guests.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: And we found lots of brewery owners and managers have found that it can be really insightful.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: But the bread and butter of what we do is the yes or no and time-based questions because you can't argue with data, right?
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: You can't argue with it.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it's interesting too, because when you there is this process of sending people in and they'll experience, you know, they'll order the beer, they'll experience the tap room and whatnot, they'll, you know, write out the answers to their questions or how they and then there's the aggregating of all this data.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe tell us a little bit about okay, I'm a tap room owner, I sign up for Secret Hopper.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I I I understand I understand it makes sense.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: What am I actually gonna get?
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what does this report look like and how do I use the information?
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: The big thing we aim to do is make it actionable.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, one of my favorite metrics we collect is arguably a little subjective, but I think it's really kind of based on a lot of the other questions in the report.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: It comes down to engagement.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: So towards the end of the report, each shopper is going to rate how they perceive the engagement.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, was it low engagement where the staff member probably wasn't present very much, wasn't giving recommendations?
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: Was it more neutral where they're just going through the motions?
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: Was it moderate where they're getting a little bit better doing what they're supposed to do, or was it high?
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: We want to help tap room owners and managers take their staff from potentially low or neutral engagement and raise it to high engagement.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: Because when you get someone who has high engagement, they're going to spend more money.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: So a tap room owner or manager is going to be able to read this report that we provide, and they're going to be to know pretty quickly if the person who it's about, you know, offered that level of engagement.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's a comp, it's a combination of a lot of stacked habits.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you you love you know, talking to comic habits with me, Carrie, of course.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: And James Clear talks a lot about, you know, when you start doing all these little things, they add up to the big picture.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: And that's really what we dive into.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, everything from that initial greeting, the offering recommendations, incurring the second pipe.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna find trends and staff members who, when they start doing all of those actions, they're the ones who are the rock stars in your tap room providing a greater experience.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: So to come back to your initial question, you're going to receive a report that chronicles those 25 to 50 data points, and you can read it and see where that person is doing a great job and hopefully reward them for that.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: Or see those areas of opportunity where you can truly kind of dive in a little bit deeper and realize that someone needs a little bit more coaching or training on something, and you have those action items you can take back to your team.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: And we do provide a score with each of the reports, and it's on a scale of one to a hundred for our basic seeker hopper report.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: The 25 data points there, they're each gonna have a four-point value.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: So everything literally is equally as important because our philosophy is every little thing, once again, adds up to the big picture.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: And ideally, we see when we're working with breweries and tap rooms across the country that each month it should go up a little bit.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: So you get that level where you're seeing just a really high performance from all of your team.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: And brewery owners and managers are taking it back to their staff.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: They're not using this as, oh, hey, we're watching you behind your back or spying on you, but as a tool to make everyone better.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's the big thing here to make the experience not just for the guests better, but for the staff better.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: So for owners out there, when you can get your staff seeing more guests and coming to visit your tap room, they're gonna see higher tabs because they're offering more engagement.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: Those guests are gonna come back sooner.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: They're going to make higher tips and they're going to be making more money.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: You're going to see, you know, less staff leaving, higher retention.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: You're going to see higher tabs.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's truly a win for everybody, but you got to get everybody motivated about it.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it's interesting too, having talked with many topper managers and owners about Secret Hopper.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of them use it as kind of one of their key metrics, you know, because we talk KPIs all the time.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: And hopefully we'll talk some KPIs here in our country.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: Many as you want.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: But I thought that was an interesting like, oh, yeah, we use the Secret Hopper report.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's one of our key metrics.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like when we do our you know, weekly or monthly meetings, you know, we're looking at that number or, you know, what is the data telling us?
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: What's the feedback?
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because again, it's like sometimes we just don't know, but this is really quantifying it.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's customizable data is really how we like to look at it.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: You can go on Google, you can look at all your reviews, and that is a great first step.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: But what you have there is someone's probably really positive, perhaps really negative experiences about your taproom.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: They're not being given anything for that.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just very just general feedback.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: For us, you know, we have shoppers specifically interested in visiting breweries and providing that customized feedback.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really to your needs, the things you're looking to find out, what's going on, and you know, how you can find those areas of opportunity.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it seems like, yeah, there's you had mentioned the questions can be around the goals.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: So that's sort of an interesting um thing for folks to think about is like, well, what are your goals?
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, just generally, oh, we want to be better, we want to have better customer service.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: Well, specifically, what are the goals?
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to kind of like be thoughtful about what outcome you're looking for with the process.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, looking at goals, a lot of people who run tap rooms, they have staff who's been there a long time.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: And a concern I get from a lot of owners is complacency.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, are those staff members just going through the motions?
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: Are they giving your regulars a little more love than the new guest at the bar who could become your next best customer?
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: Those are things that we can dive into.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: Another use case we see more and more of with Secret Hopper, you know, as we see the tap room model just grow, you know, breweries are opening tap rooms in multiple markets.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: They want to make sure it's a consistent experience across locations.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: And that owner or even some managers can't be at each location at once.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: So they want to make sure that their steps of service and their that ideal tap room experience is being presented correctly and consistently across locations.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: We see a lot of businesses interested in feedback for that situation.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I like that.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's interesting.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because you can only be in one place at a time so far.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, I like it because you can so you can customize the question towards um the goals that you have, but it might also be like trying to correct an issue.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: It might also be taking advantage of an opportunity.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: So if it's like, oh, we we really want to promote events more or things of that nature, or you know, we've had a problem with you know, whatever the case may be.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: So do you have do you have any favorites there in terms of maybe breweries, tap rooms that were trying to either fix a problem they were aware of or take advantage of an opportunity they were that was out there?
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, one of our favorites probably going back to the first podcast we ever did what five, six years ago together, to go beer.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think everybody is trying to get better at upselling.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: And like the philosophy around upselling is it's not just to go beer, it's not just that second beer.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: Upselling is letting your guests know about everything you have to offer.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: And even upselling might not have a financial result to it, so to speak.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: So if I can upsell you on coming to the event we have next week, you know, I don't have any numbers that show you bought any more beers because of it, but I'm getting you in your tap room more.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: Upselling is about teaching your guest everything you have to offer.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: But so many breweries they do reach out about the to-go beer.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and I recommend when you get the secret hopper data, each month focus maybe on one metric you want to see success with.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you're telling your team, hey, there are these five to ten different things you got to be better at, whoa, that's kind of overwhelming there.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: But when you say, hey, this week we're gonna do that, or this month we're gonna do this, and you just try to find that one metric that you monitor and you can use data to show them their success on it, I think that's really valuable.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: On the to-go beer side, we essentially see guests when they're not asked to purchase it, they get on their own maybe like 9, 10% of the time.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: That number has stayed pretty much in that same range since 2017.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: But magically, when you say, hey, Carrie, you really like that lager.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to take some home?
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: We've got a six-pack.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: That guest is nearly 50% likely to say yes.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: And looking at the data, the average tab for the person who's taking to go with them, they're spending about$5.50 more.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not a huge increase, but it's getting your brand.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: Well,$5.50 is something compared to the guests who aren't purchasing it.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: But you're getting the brand out the doors.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: They're gonna drink it, they're gonna share it with their friends.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: And on the to-go beer side of things, one thing that I always love to mention is people say, Andrew, people don't tip on to go beer.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I hate to tell you, the data says a little bit otherwise.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, over the next little bit, I'll reference some data from dating back to 2017 to present is literally depending on where we're looking, 10,000 unique tap room visits.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's a massive set of tap room data that's so fun to go to.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: And what we see is guests actually tip higher when they purchase to go beer.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason I believe that's the case is because the staff member who's going to say, Hey, would you like to take some to-go?
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: If they are literally ending the visit with that question, they're probably asking the other questions throughout the visit as well.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: So they're offering that high level of engagement.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: And as mentioned, someone who's giving a high level of engagement is going to spend more.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: And the staff offering it, they're going to see higher tips.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: So we see tips on average, 1.2 percentage points higher on visits where someone purchases to go.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: And also, you know, as I mentioned, you get that beer in your fridge, you share it with a friend.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: Loyalty is something we're talking about so much right now in the beer world because our competition just isn't other tap rooms.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's every place someone could spend their money, their hard-earned money.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: Guests are 22% more likely to plan a visit, return visit within a month when they purchase to go beer.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just driving repeat visits, right?
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what we want.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's all good things.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: And it's funny, I you know, as we were sort of talking about this subject, uh, this sort of quote popped into my head that because we we talk about to go beer a lot, and we still experience the fact that it's just it folks don't ask, you know.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: And um there's this line that's goes something like this as soon as you are sick of saying it, that's when people are just starting to listen to it.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, because we've been talking to go beer for years and years and years, and we're like, oh my God, everybody knows this by now.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: But the fact is it's still not happening.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but I mean, you talk about that's just one data point, you know.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: That that's one of 25 plus that we you know focus on.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: Your brewery may be doing awesome at Togo Beer.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you don't know.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe we can help you find out.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: But we can figure out which data points matter most to you.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, do you want to sell more flights?
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: Are you concerned that your team's not offering guests to have another beer?
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like, where do you want to dive?
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: We can customize and get that data based off the actions of your team and the actions of your guests.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: There's really no limit on the behaviors that we can track, which is why it's always so fun to dive into the data and have conversations with brewery owners across the country.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: So let's do that.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: You've got hundreds of taproom, um, tap rooms that you've your folks have been to and thousands upon thousands of actual visits.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: So we're always kind of like trying to tease out the two or three common threads of a truly great guest experience.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: What are you what are you seeing?
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: What is the data?
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: Dig into your data and yeah, I'm gonna give you the top three.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I do want to point out that a lot of things we say are gonna sound obvious.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: Well, of course you should be doing that, right?
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: But the thing is, when looking at the data, these behaviors that you think are happening all the time, they probably aren't.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: And there's room for improvement.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what we're seeing across the industry as a whole.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: So when we talk about these truly great guest experiences, I like to refer to them as high engagement visits, when your team is truly taking the time to get to know the guests on the other side of the bar.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: So one of the most important things we see is the guests getting greeted in a timely manner.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: Once again, sounds like common sense, but you gotta greet the guest pretty quickly.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: That is super important.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: And in high engagement visits, we see 80% of those guests are greeted within the first 60 seconds.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: So literally less than a minute, hey, welcome to the brewery.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: How's it going?
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: So greeting the guests quickly.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: And and the other looking at the first three minutes, we see 98% of high engagement visits have that greeting within the first three minutes.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: So you gotta greet the guests in a timely manner, otherwise, they're gonna get frustrated, right?
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: The next thing we see that is a huge part of these high engagement visits, I mentioned it earlier, is a sincere thank you.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's happening 99.3% of the time.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I want to show that it's almost 100% of the time because it's so important to end the visit with a thank you.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: Now, another one, and this is one that I actually didn't expect to see this high up, although I believe it's hugely important.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: Your staff need to know about your brewery, they need to know your story, they need to talk about your beers.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: We asked the question for our shoppers was the staff able to answer questions in a knowledgeable manner?
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: It sounds like common sense, right?
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: But it's so an important and guests want this.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because we see it happen on 99.5% of these high engagement visits.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: They don't just want to get the beer, they want to learn about the beer.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: They want to learn about you, they want to learn about everything you have to offer.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: Your team needs to know about your story.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: And if you can't answer those questions, well, maybe that's fine, but get the answer.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: Ask the other person behind the bar.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: Go ask your brewmaster, ask the owner.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: Your team needs to be able to answer these questions, and you, as owners and managers, need to provide them the information so that they can.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, when you look at these three things, the bigger picture is these all kind of fall under the umbrella of engagement.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: Because once again, highly engaged visits are more successful for everyone involved.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's a secret to success.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: I like that.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: So you got to have the warm greeting, you got to have the thank you on the way out, and in between, tell them something about your brewery, your beer, your story.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that is super important too, because you know, we've talked kind of around this issue in the past where you know, what's differentiating your brewery from the bar down the street?
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's it's your story.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's you've crafted people really want to connect with that, but sometimes we have to, you know, tell them about it too.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: And we like stories, so let's hear the story of what's going on with your with your beers and your brewery and and all that.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: And it doesn't have to be the longest drawn-out conversation, but how can you educate the guests on the other side of the bar or at the table, even during the briefest moments when you have a line on a Saturday afternoon?
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: You need to find ways that you can form that connection because that's what we all want right now, both staff and guests.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: Then it makes everybody a little bit happier and it makes your team and your business more money.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: Love it.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: So that's your top three um sort of threads, success threads for a great guest experience.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: What are some missed opportunities that you're seeing when it comes to engaging guests in the tap room?
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I'll go down that engagement rabbit hole again for a minute.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: Just big picture.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: We're seeing some tap rooms miss out on that engagement.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you are a first-time guest at a brewery, let's say you've got 10 breweries within 10 miles of UK, a first-time guest who goes in and gets a low level of engagement, they're only 48% likely to return.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: So if a guest comes, receives a low level of engagement, they're only 48% likely to return.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: That essentially means unless someone is dragging me back to that tap room, I've got nine other potential options nearby.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: So we do see people miss out on that level of engagement.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: And when you get a high level of engagement that first visit, the guest is 99% likely to return.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm gonna take it a different direction now, because you want the guest to return.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: And why do you do that?
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because you want to build that loyalty.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: And we see more and more breweries these days go from mug clubs to loyalty programs to memberships to even subscriptions.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: But how are guests aware of these things that your brewery has to offer?
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: Once again, it kind of can be an upsell opportunity.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: So, how often is your staff asking, hey, do you know about our loyalty program?
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know about our mug club?
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to sign up for it?
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: We don't see this happen a whole bunch, unfortunately.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: The number, I think, is about 13% of the time guests are being asked those questions.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: Guests who are asked about loyalty say they'll return within a week 30% of the time.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: So if you say, hey, do you want to sign up for one of these programs?
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: And more importantly, if you can get them to engage with it, they're gonna return within a week 30% of the time, compared to only 14% if they're not asked about these.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: So loyalty, these conversations, they're nearly doubling the speed of return visits, doubling.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: And in doing so, increasing that lifetime value of that customer.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: So simply asking the guests to join these programs, I think that is a huge miss opportunity because no one's gonna get upset about some of these questions.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to take beer home with you?
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: How dare you ask that question?
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, no, it's never happening.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to start with a flight?
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: Me, a flight?
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like, do you want to sign up for our loyalty program?
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I'm already a member.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: No one is going to get frustrated that you ask.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: So, worst case, just ask these little questions because they can benefit everyone involved.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's definitely a part of customer service.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we think like, oh, well, customer service and sales and suggestive sales, those are two different things.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: They're not.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's like when you go in, you can't buy what you don't know about.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: And as a customer, you know, I'd like to know what you have on offer.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't mean I'm going to buy it, but you know, maybe next time, maybe as a gift for somebody else.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: But that's all just part of the experience is tell me what you have because I'm here because I I love your beer.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: I love your place.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: And especially for a first-time guest, they might not know what they're looking for.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: So if you can teach them everything you have to offer, and it might not even be the beer.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it could be the events that you have.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: They could love that food item that you have, that's the best they've ever had.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's about giving them a reason to return and personalizing that experience for them and finding the driver that's going to bring them back.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: So you talk a lot about the power of small moments.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: So do you have a specific example of a moment that made a huge difference in the tap room's performance or guest loyalty?
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think one to really dive into is you're trying to turn that new guest into a repeat customer.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: And as we just mentioned, it's about how you can personalize the experience for them.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: What are their goals?
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: What are their expectations?
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: What can you find that they're going to crave and become a super fan?
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: And one way, I mean, everybody's business who's probably listening today is built around beer.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's probably the bread and butter of what you do.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: But as the industry evolves, you're maybe becoming a brewery that's also an events company.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you're also a restaurant.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: You're finding other drivers to get people to come to your tap room.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: But sticking to the beer side of things, or beverage in particular, flights.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: Flights are a great tool.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: You and I have talked and written extensively about flights because we love them both as a business tool, but also as part of our experience as a guest.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: And we see a lot of tap room staff not encouraged to flight enough.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: And once again, no one's gonna get upset if you ask them about a flight.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: I still go to breweries that I've visited 25 plus times, and I still want to enjoy a flight.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they have a rotating tap list, maybe they have some seasonals out there.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I just haven't had some certain beers in a while and don't want a full pint of four different beers, and I just want to see what they got.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: So staff are 350, or guests, I apologize, are 350% more likely to order a flight when staff suggest it.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: So literally, you asking me, do I want to order a flight?
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: I am 350% more likely, oh, that's a great idea.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: And taking it down through the experience, average tabs when someone orders a flight versus not ordering a flight,$13 higher.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's a dramatic pause for a reason.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: $13 higher.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: Because you're letting that person, let's call them the first-time guest, find what's right for them.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: If they go all in on one whatever and they just don't like it, they're probably not gonna order a second.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: But if you can learn what they like, ask them the questions, help them find the four or five beverages that are gonna maybe resonate with them.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: And if you can get one of them to hit, literally one of them to hit.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: If you have my favorite beer in the entire world and I don't like anything else that you brew, I'm probably still gonna come back for that favorite beer.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: So if you can find the thing that resonates to them, they're gonna order the next beverage and they're going to spend more money as a whole because they found what they enjoy and they're gonna tip higher.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: They're gonna tip higher.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: We see tipping percentages rise by nearly four points.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: Four points for when you've kind of offered that flight.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's offering a higher level of service and engagement, and that guest who orders a flight is 10% more likely to return.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: So just little things by finding that reason to return.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: And a flight is such a small moment.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: And everybody out there, you know, when you're serving the flight, don't just sling it across the bar.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so many people write down what the person's drinking or have it on a sheet of paper.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta have that.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: Because I've had an experience before.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't a flight, it was small pours.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: I went to a new brewery that opened near me.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: They make a lot of really hazy stuff, which is fantastic.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: And they hand me two half pours that I ordered.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: I asked which was which, and you've heard this story before.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: They couldn't tell me.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: So one of those beers could be the best beer I've ever had.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: But unless you give your guest the tools to order it again, they can't.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: They can't spend more money on the right item that they want to spend more money on.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: So it's so important when you offer the flight to let people know what they're drinking, walk them through it, tell them the story of it, check back in on it, make sure they have what they like because they're gonna spend more.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: Tabs$13 higher on average when you suggest a flight.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's mind blowing, right?
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it ties back to the experience too, because I mean that's just I don't want to say it's unique to tap rooms, but it's pretty close, you know, where you can go and experience a whole broad array of their offerings, and it it does sort of trigger.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think to your point, it's like I'm gonna try maybe four or five.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, I really love number two.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: After this flight, I'm gonna get a pint of that.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought that you know the branding was really cool.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe yeah, I'm gonna grab a hat on the way.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: So it's sort of like this it starts the process to figure out what it is that you like.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: So you maybe you go flight pint merchandise, something like that.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just a nice little easing into, plus, plus it's a fun experience.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: So let's let's return now to more data.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: We love data.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: And we promised this earlier we're gonna talk about key metrics because you know me, I can't go more than five minutes without using those two words together.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: So obviously, data is a big part of what Secret Hopper does.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: You have tons of data.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: What are some key metrics that you know Taproom should be tracking, but maybe get overlooked?
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna give you three because the first is one you talk about all the time average tap size, average spend.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's so important to monitor that.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I think most of you listening are probably doing that.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: If you're not, start it today.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: But the next one I really want to dive into is something that I love, it's probably my favorite metric to monitor is tip percentage.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: Tip percentage correlates directly to engagement.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: If you have a server at a place that you go and you have a poor experience, low engagement, you're just gonna tip too much.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: But when you go and they get you the flight, you get the to-go beer, you feel connected, you're going to tip more.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I definitely recommend monitoring tip percentage.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I know many of you listening are like, well, you know, all of our team has a shared login on the register.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: We can't really do that.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: But you probably can measure trends over time.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: If you notice that, say you have typically three people on, and whenever Andrew is on, tips are a little bit lower.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you might have found your unfortunately weak link, not necessarily weak, that just needs a little more training.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: So that's where you can give that person a little bit more love.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: So monitor tip percentage, whether it's individual or across like you know, shared login four teams.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think that is so important.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's a huge, hugely valuable metric to monitor because it shows which of your staff were taking the time to build those relationships.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: The two staff who's asking the questions, both about, hey, would you like something else?
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: But hey, what do you typically enjoy?
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: They're really trying to customize that experience.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: And directly on the secret hopper side of things, we asked the question how would you rate the level of engagement?
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: And talking to the owners and managers across the country who use our data, that's one of their favorites.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: Because if they're gonna scan through the four monthly visit reports that they get, they can just look boom, boom, boom, boom.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, these people gave high engagement because they're gonna correspond with high scores, high tips, high spins, and these people didn't.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: So you can know pretty quickly of who might need a little extra coaching.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: Once again, that's secret hopper specific, but it truly does come down to engagement.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: If you take away two things from today, two words that you should really be thinking about, or how are you educating your guests and your staff about everything that you do, and how well are you actively engaging with all the above on that?
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: Education, engagement, I can't stress those enough.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, those are those are super important.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um so let's talk about staff training um and best practices here.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: What have you seen are some things that could really make a difference in that regard?
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna lean in heavily on data and its role in training right now because when you start collecting tap room data, and we've gone over a few metrics that you should start to monitor.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: You don't just want to collect it.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's great if you're collecting it versus not collecting it versus collecting it.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I'm glad you're taking the steps to do it.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: So you gotta have those metrics that matter most to you.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I would say following this, and you've done podcasts on this before, Carrie, just think about those three to five metrics that monitor matter most to you.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna focus on those, you know, whether it's you know, to go beer, average spin, tip percentages.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just roll with those three.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: But next, once you have the data, you have to review it with your team.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: There's been breweries that we've worked with, unfortunately, who've been working for us for extended periods of time, but they weren't sharing it with their team.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: They weren't actually using the data, they weren't getting their team to understand how important it was and the results that they could see, and they didn't see results.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: But on the flip side, when some of the managers we work with use the data as a way to motivate their teams, they have these meetings.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: They're transparent with it.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: They say, Hey, Carrie, you did great this week.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: Here's a reward, or here's so and so.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you might be struggling a little bit with this.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: Here's some tools to improve that'll ultimately lead to higher tabs and tips.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, use the data, share it with your team.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: We've got industry benchmarks that we have on our blog that dive into everything from flights to go.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: You name the action.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: We probably have some data to correspond with it.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: Say your team, hey, if you do this, you're going to see these results.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, well, how can I know that's true?
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, why is why are you so sure that if I ask the question about to go beer, you're gonna see results?
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Secret Hopper has data across 10,000 visits that proves this.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just brewery owner says this, and you know, not everybody wants to listen to the boss all the time.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: So it's nice to have that third party come in and say, hey, look, here's the data, and here's what happens when you improve.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: So review it with your staff and show them why.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_01: And when you have the data, pick that one metric and talk about how you're gonna get better with it.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: Let's use flight, for example.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: Let's say you want to sell more flights this month.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well, first off, asking the question is great.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: But what are some situations where you might have a higher probability of actually getting someone convert on that?
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: Does the guest look maybe confused when they walk in?
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they haven't been there before, or maybe your menu is overwhelming.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, would you like to start with a flight?
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you have a lot of rotating taps, and this person might be irregular, but you can tell they're maybe a little slower today than usual.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, I know you come here all the time, but do you want to start with a flight?
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they're wearing a shirt from, you know, some brewery halfway across the country and they appear to be from out of town.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, you're here for the first time, let's get you a flight.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe give your team suggested scenarios of when they can encourage these things.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe the person literally says, Hey, I'm celebrating my 21st birthday, never been to a brewery before.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: Let's start with the flight.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: There are these flags you can put that kind of prompt these certain scenarios that you can dive down.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: So train your staff into when to do these things and truly give them the strategies to success.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: Because when you train them on these small actions, once again, focus on one at a time, monitor them, measure them, and then just maybe once they have it mastered, it's gonna become a habit they do all the time, then move on to the next.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's so important.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: So important.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: And one thing when it comes to getting your staff, you know, behind these things we're talking about.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: Say you want to get them selling more to go beer.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's great to say, hey, this weekend, whoever sells the most to Goat Beer is going to get some sort of reward, some sort of prize, maybe recognizing a staff newsletter on a bulletin board, some something because of it.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: And let's pretend you have that rock star who is consistently doing a great job.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: It might be kind of demotivating for some of your team if they just see one person always hit the top numbers.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe to motivate everyone in your team, not just that rock star, maybe offer rewards for maybe hitting certain individualized marks.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: It could be, hey, if you sell 20 crowlers this week, you're gonna get a prize.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: Or maybe if you can show X percent increase in your to-go beer sales, you're gonna get XYZ.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, make it unique to each individual.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: That way, everyone is getting motivated to work towards that common goal.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I like that.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, just to kind of rewind a little, you were saying you've got all this data, it's coming to the tap room via the reports, it's all distilled down for you.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: You've got a score and this and that, but it doesn't do you any good unless you share it with your staff because it's like how'd I do?
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm not gonna tell you.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: And like that, we talk a lot about that in finance and open book management, and really like if you don't know the score, how do you know if you're winning the game?
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: And furthermore, how do you know how you can contribute to winning the game?
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: So taking the data, because we always say, Oh, we want data-driven decisions, sure, but you want that data to have a meaningful uh impact for your staff because they're ultimately they're the ones that need to know, right?
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: So they can change their behaviors.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you gotta get them excited for it.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: You really gotta get them excited and show them the why behind it.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, oh, well, you keep telling me over and over again, Andrew, that I need to do this.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: Well, if you tell someone over and over again, but don't tell them the why, why are they gonna do it?
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_01: Besides you just kind of beating them with it.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, show them why this is important and what they can personally expect from it.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: We all like to know how it connects to us.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's interesting as we're talking.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: I was thinking, like, you know, we're really a guide, right, in the tap room.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: People come in, and sometimes you write, because that happens a lot.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: You walk in, you're like, oh, you're looking at the menu, it's your first time, or you're just kind of it's you it's a lot of menus, let's face it, they're confusing.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, wow, what am I what have I got here?
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I do need a guide to to make suggestions so that you can kind of navigate, because we talk about like confusion costs money.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like if I walk in and I'm just confused, I don't know.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I walk out, maybe I grabbed something and I didn't like it, and maybe I never come back.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: That that's a question, you know.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: We I've never added, but it'd be fun to add.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: Were you at all confused upon entering the tap room?
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: Because I bet there would be a very, very strong correlation if when they say yes to having a lower overall spend.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it stands to reason, right?
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you and I have experienced it too.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you'll walk in, you're like, I don't even know where to order.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: I can't read that menu.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not do they have food?
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure I looked online.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just again, a lot of this is we'd think we'd have it down, but we're very often overlooked sort of these basic fundamentals.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_00: So and they're all super important as the data indicates.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um so let's dig in a little bit more on this comp concept of upselling.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's you know, you've mentioned this, it's it's not just about selling more, it's about creating a better experience.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: Can you maybe speak to that a little more?
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, absolutely.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's important to, of course, you know, ask, would you like another beer?
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_01: Would you like something to go?
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_01: But breweries are about more than these things these days.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_01: Breweries are event spaces.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: You have food, you have people that people come to see, and it's not just about your beer anymore.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_01: So, as I mentioned, you know, upselling is essentially a way you're teaching a guest about everything your tap room has to offer.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_01: Because when they can find that one reason they want to return, that's all it is.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's all it is.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, your competition is every place someone could spend their hard-earned money.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just the other brewery down the street, it's the restaurant that offers dinner when you don't have any food on your menu.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's the baseball stadium where someone might go, it's the concert down the street.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's any place someone could spend money.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: Why are you going to give them a reason to spend it with you?
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm really expanding the definition of upselling on this, but upselling is essentially an educational tool.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, people coming into tap rooms these days, it's not your stereotypical craft beer customer.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_01: If we want to see this industry see greater success, we need to appeal to more people.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: And to appeal to more people, we need to teach them about all the things we have to offer.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: So you're essentially selling them on what you have to offer.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's teaching them all the cool things that they should know so they can call your space home.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_01: And that community gathering space where they feel welcome, when they feel safe.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then when you get them feeling comfortable in your space, they're gonna want to spend more money.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_01: If you can train them on all you have to offer, you will see the result.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: So big picture upselling is exactly doing that.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's asking the questions, understanding their needs.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: And then if you can do that, they're gonna convert.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's getting a little philosophical there outside of just, you know, would you like another beer?
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_01: Which go into that one really quick.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: We see, I think the numbers are when you ask that question, do you want another beer?
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: Versus when you don't ask it, tab somehow are six dollars and fifty cents higher.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_01: Magical, right?
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_01: So upselling shows results, but it also keeps a flow of guests coming into your business because they're aware.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: All right, so let's you've got a lot of historical data.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: So let's do kind of a then and then and now sort of what was and and what is here today.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: So, how have you seen sort of taproom strategy evolving and how are top tap rooms thinking differently now compared to maybe five years ago?
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'll I'll say it again, it's not just about beer anymore.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think everybody's finally seeing that.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_01: When we first launched Secret Hopper in 2017, while a lot of the things I was preaching fell under the umbrella of hospitality, I really wasn't using that word.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_01: I was talking about engagement education, but we are in the hospitality business.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_01: And how have we not said that for the first hour of our call so far?
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: So hospitality is what it's about, and hospitality ties directly to engagement.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_01: So we look at our data, and then from 2017 to 2020, when you compare low engagement visits to high engagement visits, and yes, I'm using my hands right now, even though we're talking on a screen, we saw high engagement visits.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_01: Those guests who received that high level of engagement spent 14% more.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, a little bit, not a huge number.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_01: When you look at 21 to 2022, the guests who received high engagement spent nearly 30% more than guests receiving low engagement.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_01: Then you look to 2022 to nearly present, to the end of 2022 to nearly present, guests who receive a high level of engagement spent 40% more than the guests who receive a low level of engagement.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's not an option anymore.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_01: You need to be providing a high level of hospitality engagement if you want guests coming back and expending more.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_01: It really kind of looks at the evolution of our industry.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, well, we had, oh, we came for the beer.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_01: Now maybe the food.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: Now maybe the events.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_01: Now you are an overall destination that I crave that offers such a high level of hospitality.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: I can't wait to come back.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love that.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: So another area, another strategy that keeps people coming back is loyalty, right?
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: So let's talk about loyalty.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, what are some maybe creative ways that you've seen tap rooms try to get more return guests?
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_00: What are what are some habits that you've seen out there?
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, first off, ask the question hey, were you aware of our loyalty program?
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_01: Were you aware of our events calendar?
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_01: Making people aware of your offerings, it seems so simple, but most staff aren't realizing, oh, you came tonight for trivia.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, well, do you know we have the steam trivia next Tuesday?
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: Making people aware gives them reasons to return.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, when we think loyalty in the beer industry, mug clubs is the very basic answer that so many places have been doing.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_01: And that's great now, but how can you get more customized?
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you see breweries do things like, oh, you know, you get X number of dollars off your next pint, you know, purchase nine beers, get a tenth one free.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_01: There needs to be these reasons to return.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_01: And to get them, I definitely recommend talking to your guests, asking them what is going to motivate them to come back sooner.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_01: And when we see that guests were asked to join a loyalty program, they're twice as likely to describe staff engagement as high.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_01: That tracks, and they're much more likely to plan a return visit within a week.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, when it comes down to loyalty, these mug clubs, the event calendars are all good, but nothing kind of can beat an email list as well.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_01: When you have that contact information for the guests, you can show up in their inbox on a Friday morning with things to do this weekend.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know what?
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_01: I hadn't thought about Carrie's brewery in a while, and that sounds like a lot of fun.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_01: Now I'm gonna go.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I think having that constant conversation with the guest that extends even after you leave, they leave the tap room.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's really important because they need those reminders to come back.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_01: They need those reasons to come back, and you need more butts and seats.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: So the more you can be top of mind, I think that's extremely important.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: And these are the top challenges now is getting more people to come in, more butts and seats, getting them to come back more frequently, and getting them to spend more, stay longer when they do so.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: So the secret hopper, you know, data that you're gathering really checks a lot of those boxes.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I like what you said at the beginning, it's like we're gathering all this information, not just because it's like, oh, that's interesting, but it's important.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's stuff that you know can really move the needle.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_00: This, you know, the why behind it and the staff training and showing these correlations.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, guess what?
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: If you ask if the customer wants a flight, they're three and a half times more likely.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's pretty good data.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_00: If you ask for to go beer, they're five times as likely to you know take it or say, yeah, great.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so I love how you're combining data with action that's really going to make a difference for these tap rooms.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, everyone listening here today is investing so much time, energy, and money to brew the best beer possible.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_01: There's no one who's skimping on that.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_01: So why aren't you investing the same in your tap room experience?
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because that level of hospitality is going to get guests drinking even more of your beverages and beer.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I talk about return on investment all the time.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, you know, we we always know like what something costs, but we never know what the actual value is.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so this is a great way to say, well, this is this has got an immediate return on investment, you know, all of these specific data points.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: So with that, I guess as we wrap up, what's um, you know, thank you first of all for so much great information and data and everything you do in the industry.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and what's what's a way that people either can connect with you or learn more about secret secrethopper?
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, secrethopper.com is our website.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_01: We put out a new blog every week diving into habits and data and what you can expect from doing those behaviors.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_01: If there's ever anything you want to see articles on, I love a good assignment, so reach out.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_01: You can also email me at andrew at secrethopper.com.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_01: I love learning.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_01: Always open for a phone call.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_01: I really have the belief that something that you know I can learn from you, perhaps I can pass along to someone else and they can see a more successful tap room someday.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_01: So through data and these conversations, we're all better together.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I appreciate this one, Carrie.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_01: So thanks again for having me.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's great stuff, and it's always great to chat.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_00: Have a great rest of your day, Andrew.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_00: Cheers.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening to the Kraft Brewery Financial Training Podcast, where we combine beer and numbers so that you can improve financial results in your brewery.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_00: For more resources, tools, guides, and online courses, visit Craft Brewery Financial Training.com.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_00: And don't forget to sign up for the world famous Craft Brewery Financial Training newsletter.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, get out there and improve financial results in your brewery today.