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Yoga & Mental Health: Closing the Loop, Moving Energy, & Menopause · No Shrinking Violets Podcast for Women

• 0:05
  Mary: Welcome to No Shrinking Violence.
• 0:07
  Mary: I'm your host, Mary Rothwell, licensed therapist and certified integrative mental health practitioner.
• 0:13
  Mary: I've created a space where we celebrate the intuition and power of women who want to break free from limiting narratives.
• 0:20
  Mary: We'll explore all realms of wellness, what it means to take up space unapologetically, and how your essential nature is key to living life on your terms.
• 0:29
  Mary: It's time to own your space, trust your nature and flourish.
• 0:34
  Mary: Let's dive in.
• 0:35
  Mary: Hi and welcome to the show.
• 0:42
  Mary: 23% of women in the United States practice some form of yoga twice the number of men and I'm guessing the image you got when you heard the word yoga might vary depending on your experience with it.
• 0:54
  Mary: There are at least 10 styles of yoga, including vinyasa, hatha, kondalini, bikram that's the hot yoga ashtanga, yin, restorative and anusara, and I may not have pronounced all of them correctly, but we'll talk more about some of these in a bit.
• 1:12
  Mary: Although many people would think of yoga as exercise and granted classes are often offered as part of a gym membership, I would venture to guess that my guest today would not think of yoga as exercise.
• 1:25
  Mary: In fact, my own concept of yoga has evolved as I've gotten older.
• 1:29
  Mary: I now see it and use it in my own life as a way to connect to my body and be present in the moment, but also it's an important way for me to maintain strength and keep a strong core and a sense of balance, something I would never have thought of when I was younger.
• 1:45
  Mary: According to the Global Wellness Institute, yoga is the largest contributor to the mindful movement market, which also includes practices such as Pilates and Tai Chi.
• 1:57
  Mary: The benefits of yoga are far-reaching and include stress relief, pain relief and cultivating a connection between the mind and the body.
• 2:05
  Mary: When I maintain a consistent practice -- which doesn't always happen -- I feel lighter, (even if the scale doesn't support that), stronger and more graceful.
• 2:15
  Mary: I also feel more grounded and believe that my ability to manage my cortisol, my stress response, is enhanced for sure.
• 2:23
  Mary: Oh, and I sleep better.
• 2:29
  Mary: And I'll be honest, my favorite pose is Shavasana, or corpse pose.
• 2:34
  Mary: It's typically the final pose of a yoga session, where you lay flat on your back, legs and arms spread in a position of surrender.
• 2:38
  Mary: My body now finds it so familiar that I can use it in the middle of the night to help me relax and fall back to sleep if I'm having one of those racing mind nights.
• 2:49
  Mary: I believe so much in yoga that I wanted to share a very special person with you today.
• 2:53
  Mary: I met her recently when she came to one of my workshops to improve sleep in menopause, and we are planning to partner on something pretty cool in the near future.
• 3:02
  Mary: Her name is Jennifer Lynn, and I wanted her to weigh in on the nuances of yoga, the history and the aspects of it that go far beyond the movements and poses.
• 3:12
  Mary: For example, I have recently attended a couple sessions that included the instructor reading poetry, and I know Jen has some of her own thoughts on more recent happenings in the yoga world, so let me introduce my guest today so we can jump in and talk yoga.
• 3:29
  Mary: Jen is a certified trauma-informed yoga teacher with a focus and interest on gentle movement designed to relax and restore the nervous system.
• 3:37
  Mary: She began her study of yoga movement over 15 years ago.
• 3:41
  Mary: After many years spent in the corporate world left her feeling exhausted, burnt out and overwhelmingly stressed, she became a yoga teacher in 2020.
• 3:51
  Mary: One of her passions is intentional gathering in the form of women's circles, which she began facilitating also in 2020.
• 3:59
  Mary: Being witnessed in circles has expanded her life in so many ways and she truly believes in the power of healing and growth through this modality.
• 4:07
  Mary: Most recently, and something I'm so excited about is she became certified as a menopause yoga teacher after recognizing that she lacked resources and support to navigate her own menopause journey and wanted to share this with other women.
• 4:21
  Mary: Welcome to No Shrinking Violets, Jen.
• 4:25
  Mary: I'm so looking forward to sharing thoughts on the amazing practice of yoga.
• 4:29
  Jennifer: Oh, thank you so much, Mary.
• 4:31
  Jennifer: I'm so honored to be here.
• 4:33
  Mary: Alrighty, so let's dive in.
• 4:35
  Mary: So I thought we might want to start with a basic definition of yoga.
• 4:40
  Mary: I think that it's so varied.
• 4:43
  Mary: There's, of course, sort of the popular media portrayal of it, and I know I myself have had so many different types of teachers and I think, having gone to one of your classes, it's very different what you do than some other types of yoga.
• 5:02
  Mary: So that's actually one of the things I love about it, and I'm guessing that many listeners have taken at least one yoga class.
• 5:10
  Mary: But the actual concept of yoga is about way more than an exercise class, right?
• 5:17
  Jennifer: Oh my gosh, absolutely yeah.
• 5:19
  Jennifer: So we'll first begin with the actual definition of yoga, which is to join or to yoke, or to unite, and what the ancient yogis were hoping to unite is our own internal consciousness with that of a universal consciousness.
• 5:41
  Jennifer: So a more modern and inclusive definition of yoga, though, is that it's a system, right, it's a process, a discipline, a lifestyle that really creates a container for us to be held in, and within that container is the aim for us to learn about ourselves ourselves, and this can include learning about our body and the way that it moves, how and where we hold our tension.
• 6:09
  Jennifer: The container includes learning about how our mind works and the thoughts that arise for us, our judgments, our preferences, and it also includes learning about our relationship to something bigger than us, whether we call that something God, or universal energy, or the divine, or what I really like is just a simple trusting in the unfolding of life as it is.
• 6:37
  Jennifer: Here in the West, we really see a lot of opportunities to use yoga as a physical practice, but yoga is so much bigger than that.
• 6:48
  Jennifer: It really is a discipline for all parts of our being our mental, our emotional, our physical and our spiritual.
• 6:58
  Mary: That's a huge umbrella and, again, that's one of the reasons I love it, so I use it now, partly because I had an injury.
• 7:07
  Mary: So getting older it's harder to maintain strength and I didn't really want to just go to a gym and lift weights.
• 7:14
  Mary: But a lot of yoga movement is strengthening.
• 7:19
  Mary: I think it makes you feel powerful and even some of the names of the poses you know warrior I think it feels very empowering.
• 7:30
  Mary: And recently I had, as I mentioned, a chance to attend one of your classes for the first time and you call it restorative yoga, but I didn't really have a concept of that.
• 7:43
  Mary: So when I got there, first of all it was one of the most calming environments I had been in, and that's one of the things, too, I love about yoga, even if I do it at home I have the lights very low and I really like that.
• 7:55
  Mary: But we basically held poses and when I say a pose, I don't want people to picture a pose like plank or down dog.
• 8:02
  Mary: I mean we laid in very again, I mean I think it is restorative.
• 8:07
  Mary: We laid in positions that were did feel restorative and we held those for about 20 minutes and I had never done that and when I left, I felt so good and so grounded.
• 8:20
  Mary: So can you talk about all the different types of movement that also might fall under the umbrella of yoga?
• 8:27
  Jennifer: Yeah, absolutely.
• 8:28
  Jennifer: So.
• 8:29
  Jennifer: There's so many different types.
• 8:32
  Jennifer: I think maybe the first way we can kind of break it up is that in yoga we've kind of got two different areas, so one would be considered dynamic movement and the other would be considered a passive movement.
• 8:49
  Jennifer: Right, so your dynamic yoga is going to be anything that includes movement.
• 8:55
  Jennifer: This would be things such as hatha yoga, which is a slow and deliberate form of yoga with an emphasis on breath control and mindfulness.
• 9:07
  Jennifer: Underneath dynamic yoga, we also have Ashtanga, which is more of a physically demanding practice that involves a series of postures performed in a specific order.
• 9:20
  Jennifer: This one is pretty interesting.
• 9:22
  Jennifer: They call it the yoga for athletes and they kind of tell the story that it was developed for young orphans in an orphanage in India to get their energy out at the beginning of the day a lot of heat.
• 9:40
  Jennifer: And then we have the passive styles of yoga, which yin yoga and restorative yoga would fall under that category, and typically with passive poses, what you see is they are postures held for a series of time.
• 9:58
  Jennifer: In yin yoga it's usually between three to five minutes, and restorative yoga it can be anywhere up to 20 minutes or longer, depending on the posture and what it is.
• 10:10
  Jennifer: Your aim is, and in the passive forms of yoga, we're allowing gravity to kind of pull our weight down towards the earth.
• 10:19
  Jennifer: So there's a lot of props used and a lot of different things that are being used to support the body so we can release our tension and then allow the earth to hold us.
• 10:32
  Jennifer: It goes without saying that the passive styles of yoga, that's not where you're going to build the strength.
• 10:40
  Jennifer: So if it's strength that you're looking for, you would want to go more towards the dynamic side of yoga and for releasing tension and calming the nervous system, I would really recommend passive styles of yoga.
• 10:57
  Mary: Very comprehensive, so I'm going to put a little asterisk beside one to talk about a little bit.
• 11:03
  Mary: So you mentioned restorative and you and I recently had a conversation about that.
• 11:09
  Mary: So that might be something that people may see other places like come for restorative yoga.
• 11:15
  Mary: But I get the idea from what you and I have chatted about that it's not always as advertised.
• 11:22
  Mary: In other words, someone may come to your restorative class but then try another one with a different teacher, and it can be a totally different experience.
• 11:33
  Jennifer: Yeah, yeah, the form of yoga designed by Judith Hanson Lassiter restorative yoga will always be floor-based postures, using props to support the body with the intention of recognizing where in our body we're holding this tension and then consciously releasing that tension.
• 12:03
  Jennifer: So if you're doing that very specific class designed by Judith Hanson Lassiter, there wouldn't be any standing postures or anything where you're supporting your own weight.
• 12:16
  Jennifer: A lot of times what we're seeing now in the yoga world is restorative has kind of become this buzzword, for lack of better terms but people are using it in classes that are dynamic, and so that means there's going to be some movement and there can be a lot of restorative benefits for any class right, because it's the presence that we're really going after.
• 12:45
  Jennifer: But make sure, before you go to the class, that you get really clear on if it is a dynamic form of restorative yoga or if it's the true, actual restorative yoga designed for the floor base postures.
• 13:02
  Mary: Well, one of the things I love is the idea of the earth supporting us, because anybody that's listened to any of this podcast knows that I am a nature girl and I mentioned something about nature in nearly every episode.
• 13:14
  Mary: So when that is part of kind of the instruction, when you're in a class and there's that talk about allowing the earth to support you or being connected to the earth, that feels really good to me.
• 13:28
  Mary: Now I did want to clarify in case somebody is not familiar with the word props those are things like a soft block right or a blanket, things that would support your body if you're in a position that might be aided or become more comfortable by having something supportive, correct?
• 13:48
  Jennifer: Yeah, that's exactly right.
• 13:50
  Jennifer: Thank you for asking for clarification on that.
• 13:52
  Jennifer: So a prop would be anything.
• 13:54
  Jennifer: Typically you'll see it in the form of a bolster, which is it could be round or rectangle, kind of like a big pillow for yoga, and then we use a lot of blankets and we use blocks as well.
• 14:08
  Jennifer: In my classes I like to bring towels too that can be rolled up into a little roll that fits really nicely underneath the head, along the neck.
• 14:20
  Jennifer: So, yeah, a prop is anything that is supporting the body in a way that we can relax into.
• 14:28
  Jennifer: And the importance of props in restorative yoga especially is that it allows us to meet the ground, kind of where we're at.
• 14:38
  Jennifer: So, if we have some type of injury, so, for example, if we are coming into what we would call as cobbler's pose, so we're laying flat on our back, we connect the soles of our feet and we allow our knees to open up wide, and so, as you would imagine, you're going to feel a nice stretch there on the inside of the thighs.
• 14:58
  Jennifer: Well, if you're moving through some type of knee injury, that could also create some pain in the knees to have your legs open like that.
• 15:08
  Jennifer: So in a restorative yoga class.
• 15:10
  Jennifer: What we would do is either use blocks or a bolster or blankets to support the knees up, so you're still allowing the inner thighs to open up.
• 15:21
  Jennifer: However, you're supporting the body where it's at, so we don't want to aggravate any injuries or create any new injuries.
• 15:31
  Jennifer: So, again, it's meeting your body where you are with the props.
• 15:38
  Mary: And it really brings in the idea of just being gentle with yourself.
• 15:42
  Mary: I think when we think in terms of you know an idea of exercise, it's always about pushing yourself.
• 15:49
  Mary: You know, like doing the reps and you know if it doesn't hurt it's not working.
• 15:55
  Mary: And this is such a different idea of honoring your body.
• 15:59
  Mary: And I understand even more, as we're talking, why people think about yoga as a practice.
• 16:05
  Mary: I mean, we don't talk about things like exercise as a practice and so it's more practice, like it's built into your lifestyle and I know from your story you really leaned into the world of yoga as a response to things in your own life.
• 16:26
  Mary: It sounds like a lot of career issues came up for you, things of stress, and realized it wasn't fulfilling.
• 16:34
  Mary: So you must really have a great idea, just personally and from your work with students, of the benefits of yoga.
• 16:43
  Mary: So what are some of the benefits?
• 16:46
  Jennifer: Yeah, absolutely so.
• 16:48
  Jennifer: I mean, the benefits of yoga are vast.
• 16:52
  Jennifer: So let's start with the physical benefits, and some of those could be with the dynamic classes strengthening our muscles, and then, with both dynamic and passive, we also allow the body to lengthen and stretch, and these three areas are really important because most of us are pretty sedentary these days.
• 17:13
  Jennifer: Yoga also improves posture, it has cardiovascular benefits, helps improve balance, improves flexibility and can also help a lot with pain relief.
• 17:27
  Jennifer: So I would say some of the mental-emotional benefits are stress reduction, improved mood, helps to regulate emotions, improves sleep quality and it can also reduce anxiety and enhance resilience.
• 17:46
  Jennifer: And then that final component of spirituality it can really increase our self-awareness, which can expand the way that we view life.
• 17:56
  Jennifer: This is where we're invited to be present and that allows us to be more accepting of life as it unfolds, with less attachment maybe to how we may want it to unfold rather than how it is, and also back to that idea of it connecting us to something bigger than ourselves, whether that's, you know, just trust, you know, or universal energy, or whatever you feel comfortable with.
• 18:25
  Mary: So there's a lot of points of entry, I feel like for yoga.
• 18:28
  Mary: You know, you can be searching for a lot of different things and kind of start to walk into this world and what I found and I don't know if this is true for everyone, but I sort of, along the way, have come up with sort of my favorite poses, and obviously Shavasana is one.
• 18:47
  Mary: But I have a great memory of being at work, and so I worked in a college, so summer would be a little bit slower and I remember that I was talking to my colleagues and really we were all very close, we were great friends, but I talked to them about the legs up the wall pose, which I just love.
• 19:08
  Mary: So I have this memory.
• 19:09
  Mary: We were lying in the hallway of our counseling center because there was nobody else around and we were doing legs up the wall pose and we were just kind of talking to each other and it's such a great memory.
• 19:20
  Jennifer: So that's a little wonderful posture, isn't it?
• 19:23
  Jennifer: Yes?
• 19:24
  Mary: Well, that's the other thing, Jen, that things like there's a lot of twisting right, and so I think when I was young and I think our minds, when we're young, we may be and I don't want to speak for everybody we might be looking for something different from something like yoga.
• 19:40
  Mary: We might be looking for something different from something like yoga, but I used to think, well, what's the point of the twisting?
• 19:53
  Mary: But there's always some sort of deeper way.
• 19:54
  Mary: We're accessing something a little bit deeper right With with some of those types of movement.
• 19:57
  Jennifer: Yeah, absolutely so.
• 19:59
  Jennifer: You know, the postures all stimulate our vagus nerve in different ways, which you know.
• 20:07
  Jennifer: The vagus nerve is a nerve that runs through most of our body and it really plays a big part in regulating our nervous system.
• 20:16
  Jennifer: So anytime that we're able to really take care of that nerve it can really help calm the mind and calm the body.
• 20:26
  Jennifer: And you know this one teacher that I studied with for a while, she described the human body as basically a tube and then within that tube we have a lot of different pumping actions which allows our digestion to move, which allows our digestion to move, which allows our blood to flow.
• 20:45
  Jennifer: You think about any of the systems moving through our body.
• 20:49
  Jennifer: It's done through that pumping system with our heart and different things.
• 20:55
  Jennifer: So when you think about some of these postures, it could be in restorative yoga.
• 21:01
  Jennifer: If we're laying on the bolster and we're twisting to the side, we're really wringing out our organs.
• 21:07
  Jennifer: Right, our body is holding on to a lot of different toxins and things that maybe it could be emotions that we're not digesting properly, and it gives our body a chance to really like wring it out, as if you're wringing out a wet towel body a chance to really like wring it out, as if you're wringing out a wet towel.
• 21:26
  Jennifer: And there's other postures that you know, like forward folds.
• 21:28
  Jennifer: They are really calming to the mind, and the idea behind that is that we're placing the most vulnerable position of our body downwards, so that would be our throat, our heart and our belly.
• 21:42
  Jennifer: Historically, if we're running away from something way back when a saber tooth tiger, these are the areas we would have wanted to protect.
• 21:51
  Jennifer: So a lot of times, if we feel anxiety, any type of covering up of this area can really support us.
• 22:00
  Jennifer: So, yeah, each posture has been specifically designed with something in mind the ancient yogis, really some of the thoughts around a lot of the early postures was that they wanted to be able to sit in meditation for as long as possible, and you and I both know we can only sit for so long before our body becomes uncomfortable, and so a lot of the traditional postures would have just been opening up the body in order to sit in meditation for hours and hours and hours on end.
• 22:45
  Mary: Wow, I like that context and I love the idea of the ringing out, because so the parasympathetic nervous system is, as you said, it's our way of calming and I feel like in our times today, I mean, you can just look at social media for 10 minutes and I don't think you really realize that what is happening is it's activating the sympathetic nervous system and so that's what increases our adrenaline and increases our heart rate.
• 23:08
  Mary: And we have so many things in the world today, even driving.
• 23:12
  Mary: You know that it activates a system that, as you referenced, was really designed way back when we became human to address true danger.
• 23:25
  Mary: And now our sympathetic nervous system is triggered all the time.
• 23:31
  Mary: It's triggered by things that remind us of trauma, but our levels of cortisol and I'm going to speak specifically about women women have a harder time managing the regulation of cortisol, harder than men, and especially women in menopause.
• 23:46
  Mary: So the parasympathetic nervous system, that's your vagus nerve, that's what tells your body.
• 23:53
  Mary: You know what.
• 23:54
  Mary: We're actually okay, but that in our modern world it's much harder for that to kind of fire, to like, do its work because we are often so flooded by adrenaline and cortisol just from our modern world.
• 24:10
  Mary: And so what a beautiful way to, you know, not only connect consciously to our breath and our bodies, but in doing, just in doing some of the things, we are supporting that vagus nerve and that parasympathetic nervous system, even if we don't recognize that's what we're doing.
• 24:31
  Jennifer: Yeah, absolutely yeah.
• 24:33
  Jennifer: You know, the way I've really been understanding stress lately is that, you know, a lot of us aren't completing that stress cycle and so we'll have our cortisol rise, we'll become in a stress state and then we tend to just hang out there, you know, and really our bodies weren't designed to hang out there for extended periods of time.
• 24:57
  Jennifer: And you know, that's really where yoga can step in and help us to complete some of these stress cycles, something I had mentioned earlier about.
• 25:07
  Jennifer: You know, when we connect the mind and the body, it brings this awareness into our lives.
• 25:12
  Jennifer: And so, you know, in our world we really value living out of our mind, right?
• 25:20
  Jennifer: We really value that intellect of our mind, right, we really value that, the intellect of the mind, and we forget that the other half of our story really is our body and the wisdom that we hold in our body.
• 25:31
  Jennifer: And so yoga really provides those two things to come together.
• 25:36
  Jennifer: And it's amazing to see how, on the mat, you know, I've I've watched myself and I've watched others have breakthroughs, things that they've been stressed about for a really long time, trying to think their way through, and it wasn't until they they kind of moved that energy downward, reconnected with their body, that they were able to see the bigger picture and complete that stress response for you know something in particular Well, I love that you brought up closing the loop, because you're exactly right that it's really important for our body and I mean, and again, our mind.
• 26:15
  Mary: We do tend to talk about things separately, but they totally are not separate.
• 26:20
  Mary: But if we can't complete the loop, in the sense of we have the stressor, our cortisol goes up, we respond and then we deescalate A lot of things in our modern world we really can't do that.
• 26:35
  Mary: If we're watching the news right now, there's a lot of things where we can feel powerless and the things that we do are not necessarily solving the problem.
• 26:47
  Mary: So again to go back historically, if you're running away from something that can hurt you, you get to safety.
• 26:53
  Mary: You recognize I'm safe now.
• 26:56
  Mary: In the same way, if you've ever almost had a car accident, when you're finally safe, what happens?
• 27:03
  Mary: Your body starts shaking.
• 27:04
  Mary: You know you responded in the moment to avoid the danger.
• 27:08
  Mary: But once you're safe, then your body is like reassessing Okay, we're okay, now let's shake out this energy.
• 27:15
  Mary: You know we're gonna have to re-regulate our breathing, but you are able to complete the cycle a lot of times when it's something physical.
• 27:24
  Mary: But when we have this constant influx of social media we always have our phones on us.
• 27:31
  Mary: We have a high level of difficulty completing any cycle, and so I feel like yoga is really an intentional way of being able to do that in the modern world.
• 27:45
  Mary: So what do you love about teaching yoga?
• 27:50
  Jennifer: Oh my gosh, there's so much I love about teaching yoga.
• 27:53
  Jennifer: So I actively practiced yoga for about 10 years before I got my certification yoga for about 10 years before I got my certification.
• 28:08
  Jennifer: And I will never forget how I felt leaving my very first yoga class.
• 28:09
  Jennifer: It was almost as if the weight that I've been carrying around for 20 years was just taken off of me.
• 28:18
  Jennifer: And you know, during that time I wasn't living a very present life, I wasn't connected to anything bigger than myself, I was definitely stuck in a pattern of reactivity and my body was full of tension.
• 28:35
  Jennifer: And because I can so clearly remember how I felt going into yoga versus how I felt coming out of yoga that's, I guess the aim of a lot of my teachings is providing that safe space where people can show up to my class in whatever state they're in and be welcomed fully exactly as they are, welcomed fully exactly as they are, and then being able to watch them kind of shed those layers of stress and judgments and thoughts as the class moves forward and then seeing that end result of who they are at the end of class.
• 29:16
  Jennifer: It's really fulfilling and I feel really honored, honestly, at all of my classes for being able to create a space that allows people that opportunity to kind of check out of the world, even if it's only for an hour.
• 29:33
  Jennifer: I think you're absolutely right.
• 29:35
  Jennifer: We just have so much information coming at us all the time and it's really hard to manage so much information, and I don't believe that we were ever meant to have as much information coming towards us as what we really do, so to teach yoga and to provide this quiet, safe space where people can just be.
• 29:58
  Jennifer: It's an amazing feeling.
• 30:03
  Mary: Well, if you all can't tell from Jen's voice, she is a very, very calming and accepting presence.
• 30:11
  Mary: Thank you that he was a rare male right that was attending, because we know that there are not nearly as many men, so any men listening maybe venture into that world a little bit.
• 30:32
  Mary: But you recognize that he had a pain issue and you address that.
• 30:37
  Mary: And I remember early on one of actually probably one or two instructors that I had early on would really walk around the class and adjust people's poses.
• 30:51
  Mary: I remember and always ask permission is okay if I touch you.
• 30:55
  Mary: And I loved that.
• 30:57
  Mary: You know, because little I feel like little adjustments in your movements and your poses, like she lengthened my down dog in a way that I was like, oh, this is what it's supposed to feel like.
• 31:09
  Mary: And I think when someone can sort of intervene physically in a way that's really gentle and supportive and make that adjustment, I always think about those times as really like with gratitude, like that's so cool that you're in a situation where you're being also supported to do things in a way that's going to be the best way to have the most benefit.
• 31:37
  Jennifer: Yeah, absolutely, this can be a little bit of a hot topic in yoga.
• 31:43
  Jennifer: I've studied with a few different teachers who have taught me two very different things.
• 31:48
  Jennifer: So it's interesting.
• 31:50
  Jennifer: And some of the teachers I've been with they say that nowadays we don't ever want to touch a student, that it's not acceptable under any circumstances.
• 32:02
  Jennifer: And then there's other teachers who really advocate, for as long as you're getting consent, hands on adjustments really help to bring the practice alive for somebody.
• 32:22
  Jennifer: And I have had some students with, you know, some trauma that they brought into class and they made it clear at the very beginning that they didn't want any hands on adjustments and of course we always respect that.
• 32:34
  Jennifer: And then other times, intuitively, you know, I am kind of led to the student and ask if there's anything that I can help with, because you know I'll speak for restorative yoga can help with, because you know I'll speak for restorative yoga if you're laying in the posture and you don't quite have the prop underneath you correctly, that can make a big difference.
• 32:55
  Jennifer: You know, in restorative yoga we want to allow the body to be as comfortable as possible.
• 33:00
  Jennifer: But if the prop isn't set up right, you could actually be in discomfort, which won't allow you to relax your mind and then, in turn, your body's not going to relax, which really defeats the whole purpose of restorative yoga.
• 33:16
  Jennifer: So I try to really use my intuition and, you know, meet people where they're at.
• 33:24
  Mary: Well, I'm glad that you talked about those two sort of schools of thought, because I will say that type of helpful intervention has not happened in many years with any of the teachers that you know I've attended a class with.
• 33:37
  Mary: So I think that's something and we'll, near the end of the episode, we'll talk sort of a little bit about, if somebody wants to kind of embark on some yoga, what you would suggest for that, but I think, recognizing that it's okay if there's a discomfort to talk privately with the teacher about that.
• 33:57
  Mary: And you sort of opened the door here for the next thing that I wanted to talk to you about and that's how yoga can specifically help address mental health issues like anxiety and depression.
• 34:08
  Mary: And I know well, I feel like a lot of yoga has mindfulness just built into it, and actually that was.
• 34:16
  Mary: I had a whole episode, episode 11, on mindfulness and I know I will use that a lot, that concept of being grounded, being in your senses, to disconnect from maybe the frantic thoughts that are giving rise to things like anxiety.
• 34:32
  Mary: So can you talk a little about how yoga helps with those types of things?
• 34:36
  Jennifer: So you know, again, we live in a world that unfortunately, values the intellectual wisdom of our mind over the wisdom of our body, and so that's how most of us have been conditioned to live our lives, which is through the mind, right?
• 34:51
  Jennifer: So yoga can really support mental health because, again, it reconnects our mind-body connection and it does this through breath, awareness, body awareness and presence, and something really magical happens when we reunite these two parts of ourselves.
• 35:12
  Jennifer: We can gain more clarity on situations, we gain more emotional regulation, we can begin to learn to identify less with our thoughts and we can also begin to really release any deeply held negative beliefs about ourselves or others, or even the world that we live in.
• 35:34
  Jennifer: So another way yoga can really help with depression and anxiety is through sensory awareness.
• 35:41
  Jennifer: In yoga we tend to view anxiety as an energy that is moving upward, sometimes maybe too quickly, and it usually involves and has a component of overstimulation.
• 35:54
  Jennifer: So to counterbalance this through sensory awareness, we can create a condition that moves that energy downward, towards the earth, energy downward towards the earth.
• 36:09
  Jennifer: So, like I mentioned earlier, there's certain postures that really encourage the flow of energy For anxiety.
• 36:12
  Jennifer: With that upward moving energy to counterbalance, we could do things such as forward fold or, like you mentioned earlier, your favorite posture, legs up the wall, mountain posture, or any slow, deliberate movement with a focus on our connection to the earth below us.
• 36:31
  Jennifer: And then we also have the many different breathing exercises that we can do.
• 36:38
  Jennifer: That moves that energy downward to stimulate our nervous system and it can promote calming within the body.
• 36:46
  Jennifer: And then, of course, on the other side is depression or low mood.
• 36:52
  Jennifer: So in yoga we typically see that as a slow moving, heavy energy that is already moving downward.
• 37:01
  Jennifer: So in this case we would want to stimulate that movement of the energy upward.
• 37:07
  Jennifer: So, working with strengthening postures such as the warrior series or dynamic movements like a vinyasa flow that really connect that movement and the breath, that can really help to stimulate any stagnant or stuck energy in the body, any stagnant or stuck energy in the body.
• 37:31
  Jennifer: And then there's also breath work specifically for low mood, and they would be things such as a box breath, which could be for a four count inhale, four count hold, four count exhale, or a lion's breath which is breathing in through the nose and then a fast, forceful breath out through the mouth.
• 37:52
  Jennifer: And I really feel that there's an interesting concept with regard to restorative yoga in particular, since that's kind of my passion, I'll drop this in here.
• 38:01
  Jennifer: In restorative yoga we view any mental health, specifically anxiety and depression, in the same way you would like I said earlier, with either that rising energy up or that slow, stagnant energy down.
• 38:17
  Jennifer: And in restorative yoga we come back to this idea that we want to either open up or protect the most vulnerable places on our body.
• 38:28
  Jennifer: So that would be our throat, our heart and our belly.
• 38:31
  Jennifer: So if I would have a student in my restorative yoga class who came in and shared with me that they're moving through anxiety, I would never place them in a posture where these vulnerable places are facing wide open to the world.
• 38:49
  Jennifer: If they wanted to do a heart opening posture, I would oftentimes lay a blanket or two or something heavier over the chest to kind of cover up those vulnerable places.
• 39:00
  Jennifer: And because anxiety also has that component of overstimulation, we would probably also work with either a blanket or an eye pillow covering up the eyes in order to reduce any extra stimulation.
• 39:15
  Jennifer: And then the complete opposite would be true for depression in particular, or low mood.
• 39:22
  Jennifer: I would want to encourage that person to open up those vulnerable places.
• 39:27
  Jennifer: So heart opening postures for somebody moving through low mood would actually be really therapeutic.
• 39:33
  Jennifer: You know, if you think about depression, you know, on a physical level you can sometimes see their shoulders slumping down and it's almost like their shoulders are coming down to protect the heart, you know.
• 39:46
  Jennifer: And so that opposite movement would be opening up the heart.
• 39:50
  Jennifer: And then I would say, another way yoga really supports depression and anxiety in particular is if you're doing a dynamic or an active form of yoga, it really releases the feel-good chemicals and endorphins which can help lower stress and improve mood and well-being.
• 40:13
  Jennifer: And then the last way that I just kind of felt it was important to add in here is that, whether it's in-person classes or virtual classes, I think that the form of community that yoga offers can really help with mental health issues.
• 40:32
  Jennifer: You know, when we show up to a place where we can really be seen as we are in the condition that we are in that particular moment and meet new people who are welcoming of us, I think that always has an opportunity for health and wellness.
• 40:50
  Jennifer: And I think you know, now more than ever, it seems that a lot of us are becoming isolated and we have a high rate of individualism in the modern world, which is a really real thing that I see playing a large role in our mental health.
• 41:07
  Jennifer: We are meant to be living, working and playing in community, and without that there's a piece of us that's always missing right, and so we may feel that yearning for something or that longing, and we might not know exactly what it is.
• 41:24
  Jennifer: And so to show up in a supportive community, such as, you know, yoga offers, it can really really help with somebody's low mood or anxiety.
• 41:39
  Mary: Yeah, that idea of connection is really powerful and I think it's so interesting too.
• 41:46
  Mary: And I'll tip my hand a little bit because I mentioned, you and I are working on a little project together, but it was probably at least eight years ago that I bought a book on facilitating women's circles and working full time, working in a college environment.
• 42:02
  Mary: It really wasn't feasible at that point, but it had always been something that was very attractive for me to like.
• 42:11
  Mary: I sort of wanted to lean in that direction, because the other part of I think the idea of supporting each other is something that we touched on here and I mention often is that I feel women have been set up to be competitors too often and social media doesn't help that.
• 42:32
  Mary: But one of the most powerful things for our health and our wellbeing is our girlfriends right.
• 42:39
  Mary: Connecting.
• 42:40
  Mary: That's part of what we naturally do often as women is connect and being in.
• 42:47
  Mary: Especially when you think about the circle shape right, everybody's equal you can see everyone and being in a space where the whole intention is to support each other, not to try to hide or think well, it seems like everybody else is fine, so I have to pretend that I'm fine.
• 43:08
  Mary: And when you're intentionally coming together with a spirit of support and recognizing we all have parts of ourself that we want to support and want to strengthen.
• 43:19
  Mary: I think that is so powerful.
• 43:23
  Mary: And the other thing that you mentioned and I've been a therapist for 35 years but you just most clearly explained the energy of anxiety and depression in such a beautiful way because really, when people are anxious, it is an upward energy.
• 43:41
  Mary: They're in their head, they're elevated, and then that heaviness of low mood is kind of exactly as you're saying.
• 43:49
  Mary: You feel like you're dragging a bag of rocks with you and so even simply, if somebody's just having a day, they don't necessarily have to have a diagnosis of anxiety or depression, but we all have moments where we're anxious because that's actually a protective factor.
• 44:06
  Mary: We need to have that type of energy sometimes to respond to life, or it's just a day that's sad or heavy.
• 44:13
  Mary: Some of these things that are part of a yoga practice can really help and the things that you mentioned and I often tell my clients to stand in mountain pose, which is basically, you know, shoulders back and down, your hands are open right and kind of facing forward.
• 44:35
  Mary: I feel like that is such a strong pose and it's also really opening your heart to the world and taking up your space.
• 44:46
  Jennifer: Yeah, absolutely, it is Yep.
• 44:49
  Jennifer: And then I would just add, you know, with the focus on the soles of the feet connecting to the earth, I think that you know a lot of us underestimate or almost forget how important that connection to the earth really is.
• 45:05
  Mary: Yes, very much so.
• 45:07
  Mary: And again, even just as a gardener, being out and being in the dirt and planting, growing things, that connection, and there's a lot of things in the soil that are antidepressants, but that's a whole other episode, Right?
• 45:23
  Mary: There's one more thing that I wanted to talk about with you, because I know it's a newer certification for you and I am so excited about it.
• 45:30
  Mary: You recently became certified in yoga, specifically for women in menopause, so can you talk a little bit about what kind of concerns?
• 45:39
  Mary: Because you know we have the hot flashes and we have all of those things that tend to shift hormonally at that time of life.
• 45:46
  Mary: What does it help address?
• 45:49
  Jennifer: So, yeah, I did.
• 45:50
  Jennifer: I just received my certification from Yoga for Menopause, which is a recognized leader in the world for training yoga teachers, specifically for yoga for women as they transition through what they call the menopause years, and this is really an important thing to touch on before I speak too much about it.
• 46:12
  Jennifer: The reason that they have termed it the menopause over just menopause is because here in the West, when we think about menopause, we think about that 12 months without a cycle, and so, really, this certification that I just received it's for the entirety of the transition.
• 46:33
  Jennifer: So the menopause includes the stages of perimenopause, menopause and postmenopause, and it's really important to include all of these because they all have different symptoms and different needs during each of these stages.
• 46:50
  Jennifer: I fell in love with this particular program because they took so much wisdom from different modalities from around the world and then they combine them together to create one really beautiful program.
• 47:07
  Jennifer: So menopause yoga incorporates the healing modality of women's circles, where we can come together as a safe place to learn and to share about our own unique experiences as we move through the menopause, along with the healing properties of different styles of yoga and breath work, and then there's also meditation, and a big one in this program is journaling, which provides the data that we need to be able to see the big picture of our life.
• 47:42
  Jennifer: So kind of the way each class is designed is that we'll pick a different symptom of the menopause and then we'll focus on that.
• 47:51
  Jennifer: So you know, you name the symptom, it can address it.
• 47:55
  Jennifer: Some of the big ones that we went over in class are anxiety and overwhelm, low mood, hot flushes, mood hot flushes you know just all the very common things.
• 48:14
  Jennifer: Anxiety and overwhelm was the one that I would say most students kind of related to.
• 48:16
  Jennifer: That were moving through the perimenopause stage and then postmenopause.
• 48:21
  Jennifer: You often had women who were kind of seeking to re-find that joy in their life and so, just like we talked about earlier with the anxiety and the depression, each one of these classes is really aimed to take a look at where that energy is at.
• 48:38
  Jennifer: So, again, with that anxiety and overwhelm, that would be that rising energy.
• 48:42
  Jennifer: So we're going to want to bring it back down towards the earth and then somebody experiencing, you know, just the blues and post-menopause or, you know, feeling stuck.
• 48:52
  Jennifer: That's when we're going to want to kind of bring in some strength training and more dynamic movement and breath work for them.
• 49:02
  Jennifer: Another concern that is very real throughout the entire menopause transition is reduced sleep quality.
• 49:10
  Jennifer: So a class designed with this symptom in mind would focus primarily on restorative yoga or yin yoga postures, which really help to release that tension throughout the body and the mind.
• 49:24
  Jennifer: And it's also a really beautiful class when we focus on sleep quality because, like you said earlier, yoga really is that practice.
• 49:33
  Jennifer: And so, with any of these classes, the more that you do them, the more that you're training your body to come back to these tools whenever you're moving through one of these symptoms.
• 49:46
  Jennifer: So to practice restorative yoga each night for an hour, that's training your body.
• 49:53
  Jennifer: Like hey, when I lay down in this position, this is my time to begin to quiet my mind, to release the tension, and after so many nights of doing that, your body takes it on as a muscle memory.
• 50:07
  Jennifer: So each class is beautifully designed to support pretty much any and all of the symptoms throughout menopause.
• 50:16
  Jennifer: And then, if there is something missing, that's the point of the women's circle.
• 50:22
  Jennifer: That's included in this.
• 50:23
  Jennifer: So it's usually going to be about an hour where you can connect with other women and you can learn tools that they're using or things that they're moving through, which could also be a great resource for yourself.
• 50:37
  Mary: That sounds amazing and I will tell you, I already put your first class in my calendar at the end of the month, I found them on your website calendar.
• 50:51
  Mary: At the end of the month I found them on your website.
• 50:53
  Mary: It just sounds really wonderful because you're right about, again, the feeling of overwhelm that seems to be so consistent and with the shift in our hormones, we do really physically have less in the tank.
• 51:08
  Mary: Everything has shifted and again whole other episode but we need to retrain our brain because our brain will recover and that's the beautiful thing, and I'm going to give you credit for this, because you talked about the second spring and I love the idea of thinking about menopause as a second spring.
• 51:28
  Mary: That's my favorite season.
• 51:30
  Mary: Everything is starting again and once you move through this, you can decide what you want your life to be.
• 51:37
  Mary: And I think we often think about menopause with this sense of dread and this, oh no.
• 51:43
  Mary: And, of course, as you said, you learned now to call it the menopause and isn't it so like Western culture to reduce it to 12 months of a physical thing?
• 51:54
  Mary: You've arrived when you haven't had your period for 12 months, but it's so much bigger than that and the shifts do do begin in perimenopause.
• 52:04
  Mary: So, yeah, what a really beautiful and validating way to address what's happening.
• 52:13
  Mary: So of course as.
• 52:15
  Mary: I yeah, it's really well.
• 52:18
  Mary: I love that you are, you're sort of my conduit into that right now, because you're learning all of that and I love learning that from you.
• 52:26
  Mary: So, as I thought would happen, we have hit about an hour, almost an hour.
• 52:32
  Mary: So I want to pull all of these things together and I didn't sort of warn you ahead of time.
• 52:36
  Mary: I was going to ask you about this.
• 52:38
  Mary: But if someone is new to yoga, if someone's listening and maybe they took a class or two, didn't really love it, but some of this is resonating.
• 52:47
  Mary: In other words, they want to find this sense of connection, this sense of peace or, you know, maybe explore more restorative yoga.
• 52:56
  Mary: Where would be a good place for someone to start to venture into this world?
• 53:01
  Jennifer: Yeah, so that's a really good question.
• 53:03
  Jennifer: You know I'll speak for myself first, and for me it's oftentimes been about the teacher, you know.
• 53:13
  Jennifer: So I see a lot of people saying, oh well, I only like restorative yoga or I only do vinyasa, and I find that to be kind of limiting because then it could just be a style.
• 53:28
  Jennifer: But oftentimes what I found in my experience is that I have learned to love different styles of yoga because of the teacher that was teaching it, whether it was the way that they were showing up and I really enjoyed the lessons that they were bringing to class, or I really enjoyed the sense of community that they created in their classes.
• 53:53
  Jennifer: There's often, you know, bigger components than the physical practice that really drew me to them.
• 54:01
  Jennifer: But I would say, you know, there's so many resources out on YouTube now, um, so if you don't want to spend a lot of money or you don't have the resources to spend a lot of money, you know there's there's free classes offered there and there are so many wonderful teachers and you can narrow it down by style until you get an idea of what feels best for your body, and then you know throughout that you'll probably come across a teacher or two that you really resonate with as well.
• 54:36
  Jennifer: There are also a lot of free resources in our community.
• 54:41
  Jennifer: There's different Facebook groups.
• 54:44
  Jennifer: I don't know that I know any off the top of my head that I could mention right now.
• 54:49
  Jennifer: But you know, yoga is really one of those modalities that a lot of teachers want to give back to their community.
• 54:57
  Jennifer: So I just had an example pop in my mind In Harrisburg, on 3rd Street, it's the community yoga space, so it's a donation-based yoga studio, and so you know, sometimes people show up there for free and other times they have a few dollars to put in the donation bucket, and she offers many different styles of yoga, from restorative to yin, to more dynamic flowing classes as well.
• 55:27
  Jennifer: And you know something we didn't touch on earlier, but there's many different branches of yoga, and one of them is pranayama, which is breath work, and so there's lots of kundalini classes popping up in our area and there's one for $10 that happens on Thursdays at Consciousness Coffee here in Le Moyne, and that's a style of yoga that's very gentle, so you're in a seated posture the whole time and you're just simply working on your breath, but it's still a form of yoga because it's connecting the mind and the body together.
• 56:04
  Jennifer: So yeah, long story, but I would say, start with YouTube.
• 56:10
  Jennifer: Find some free resources there until you narrow down, maybe the style that you're looking for, and then searching the area for you know, just some good classes.
• 56:21
  Jennifer: Oh, my yoga is a great resource, and just plain yoga as well.
• 56:25
  Jennifer: They're probably two of the most well-known studios in our area.
• 56:30
  Mary: That's a great list, and we actually have listeners from all over, even Europe.
• 56:38
  Mary: So, Jen is obviously mentioning different options close to where we are in Pennsylvania, but I'm going to say, as you started talking about Harrisburg, which is the capital of our state, I was thinking there's a small town nearby that does the same thing donation.
• 56:54
  Mary: So what I would encourage is find those options and don't be shy if you can only give a dollar or two or even nothing to start, because often when you go to a yoga studio, those classes are a pretty decent financial investment and I think you get a lot out of it.
• 57:15
  Mary: But I don't want that to feel like a barrier.
• 57:18
  Mary: So, jen is talking about a lot of really good ways to start to venture into this world, that you don't need to have that big financial investment to start.
• 57:29
  Mary: And I also want to thank you, jen, for mentioning the teacher aspect, because 100% you're gonna respond to specific teachers, I think, because sometimes you can feel like a little like meh, you know that was fine and it's not you.
• 57:49
  Mary: I have had certain times where I've done, you know, a series of 10 or whatever and I absolutely loved the energy of the teacher and that is something I think not to be discounted.
• 58:01
  Mary: I think it's sort of like therapy.
• 58:03
  Mary: You know you respond to your therapist maybe or not, so there is something to that, I think, to honor if there's a space where you feel like, wow, this is really, this is feeling restorative to me or this is feeling empowering, you know, kind of honor that.
• 58:21
  Mary: And the other thing I would say is go into spaces.
• 58:26
  Mary: Youtube is great, but this idea that Jen talked about of being in community, when you are in that space and often it is a very calming place, it's low light, there's often beautiful music.
• 58:41
  Mary: That is part of the experience, so we can't always do that is part of the experience, so we can't always do that.
• 58:47
  Mary: I know I do a lot of online yoga, but when I have time, I really love to be in the presence of others and the presence of the teacher and experience that.
• 58:57
  Mary: So, jen, thank you so much for being here.
• 59:00
  Mary: This has been really awesome and I learned so much and I actually feel calm because you have such a calm presence.
• 59:07
  Mary: So I want to thank you so much for sharing all of your knowledge today.
• 59:12
  Jennifer: Yeah, thank you so much for inviting me on here.
• 59:14
  Jennifer: It truly was an honor to speak with you.
• 59:21
  Mary: And I want to thank everyone for listening.
• 59:22
  Mary: Please review or follow the show so you don't miss a thing, and I really would love to hear your thoughts when I decide what episodes I want to venture into or guests that I wanna bring in.
• 59:30
  Mary: I really am trying to build a community here and address some of the thoughts that listeners have, so please comment, or you can even text me directly using the link above the show notes and until next time, go out and be the amazing, resilient, vibrant violet that you are.