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The Secrets We Keep (For Our Friends) · Friendship IRL: Real Talk About Friendship, Community, and What It Actually Takes

• 0:00
  Podcast Intro/Outro: All right, gang. Here's to nights that turn into mornings and friends that turn into family. Cheers. Hello, hello, and welcome to the Friendship IRL podcast. I'm your host, Alex Alexander. Each week we talk about what is working(and what is not) in our friendships, community and connections. Have you ever wished you could sit down and have a conversation about what is really going on in your friendships? Well, you found your people. Join us as we dive into real life stories and explore new ways to approach these connections. Together, we're reimagining the rules of friendship
• 0:57
  Alex Alexander: My husband and I keep secrets from each other, but not the kind you're thinking. There is a difference between hiding something from your partner and holding something for your friend. The episode I want to record today, this isn't about my life, it's not about my husband and I's goals, our finances, our marriage, those belong to the two of us. And I think societally it's very normal that sometimes we have things that stay just between us, and we don't share what our partner has told us with the rest of our friends. But I see a lot of things on social media talking about how, you know, well, if my friend told me that it's assumed that my husband or my boyfriend or my girlfriend or my partner knows, and today's episode is about why I don't think you should do that, because the things we're going to talk about today, they are somebody else's story, and they were never mine to share in the first place.
• 1:59
  Alex Alexander: Now, as I sat down to really think about this, because this is like an absolute value in Michael and I's marriage. There are really three categories of things that we keep secrets from each other about when it comes to our friends. The first one is that our friend explicitly asked us not to share, so they might be telling me a story, or something that happened to them at work, or just like a deep life revelation they're having something they're trying with their health, I don't know, and they might stop and just say,"Please don't tell Michael," and I take that to heart when I say,"Of course, I won't, like I mean it." I do not tell him full stop, and often sometimes I'll even lie about it. If my friend just told me, let's say something about their health, and they're like, please don't tell Michael, and then Michael asked me something about their health, I might be like, "oh, I don't know, I've never, I haven't asked them about that recently," even though I know, because it's not about me and Michael, it's about keeping a confidence for my friend. I could also just say to Michael, I don't want to talk about it, and that's kind of code between the two of us, that he's not going to push, he's not going to ask me any more questions, he's not going to dive in further, he's not going to go ask other people, if that person, if that friend wants to share with him, they will share with him, and he trusts that, and otherwise he's just happy that I am there for them now.
• 3:43
  Alex Alexander: The second category is that maybe the friend didn't ask me explicitly not to share, but I just know that this is something they told me in confidence. So, an example of this is a few years ago, a friend of mine, we got together and we went on like a long walk. I'm talking like two hours of a walk, and she was going through a divorce, and I was asking her all sorts of questions about what had been happening and how she's doing now and how she's gonna move forward, what her plans are as far as a living situation and work, I mean, I'm talking everything from what haven't you been talking about for the past few years. How did the actual conversation go? What does the future look like? Michael knew I was on this walk, he knew who I was talking to, he knew the point of the walk was to talk about the divorce that was going on. He is friends with this person now. She didn't specifically ask me not to share with him, but I got to the end of that walk, I got in the car.
• 4:56
  Alex Alexander: I think sometimes my best reflections on this happen, you know, in like that train.
• 5:00
  Alex Alexander: Transition period between when I was hanging out with a friend and when I get home, whether that's walking or car or plane ride, whatever it is. Sometimes I just think about it, and I think, like, wow, I'm so honored that friend trusted me with all the information they just shared. I know they are not sharing that with many people, and something about that has me just thinking to myself, like, okay, they didn't ask me not to share this with Michael, but some of these things feel so vulnerable, I'm not going to share them with Michael, like, if he wants to know, he can go talk to her about it, and if I ever was going to share anything, I would ask her first, but honestly, I probably never will. And so when that happens, I get home, he knows he's like,"How was the walk? And I'm like,"Man, it was intense. A lot of things have been happening that we didn't know, and I'm not gonna tell you what they are, but I'm just gonna tell you that I'm really happy we can be here for her, and that's about it.
• 6:09
  Alex Alexander: That's all he got from a two hour conversation, because I'm holding that for her. It has nothing to do with Michael and I. At the end of the day, I think he's just happy that she has someone, and that is what has us holding our tongue is that we really value our individual relationships, even if they're not equal, right?
• 6:29
  Alex Alexander: He's happy that her and I have a close friendship. He doesn't need to be on an equal level, and if he did, he would go talk to her himself. Now, the third category is that it's not my news to share, and I have an example of this. A very close, very old friend of mine found out she was pregnant. She was overjoyed, I was overjoyed, and she told me and another friend, the three of us, in a group chat, and she very specifically was like, don't tell anyone else. Now, later I found out she didn't really mean we couldn't tell her husbands, but neither of us did, and you want to know why? Because our husbands also have a friendship, maybe not as close of a friendship, but a friendship with this person.
• 7:18
  Alex Alexander: They have been friends with her for honestly longer than I have, Michael has been friends with her for longer than I have, and so the thought of like stealing her thunder, stealing that moment for the two of them as friends when she told him that there's a little baby on the way, he's going to be so excited, they should get to experience that together, just like I got to experience it with her, and so in that moment, even though she hasn't explicitly told me not to share, I actually like don't want to share, I don't want to be the one to get the thunder, I want to watch them, hopefully, or hear about them if I'm not there, having that moment together, and so part of it is like self, not self-sacrificing, but like self-monitoring for her joy.
• 8:09
  Alex Alexander: Part of it is honestly like I want the joy, I want the joy of watching them as friends for two decades, find out this news. I think that's going to be so fun to watch. Now, I do want to briefly acknowledge, as you're thinking about this, you're like, "Wow, Alex, you might be holding a number of secrets, and you're right, sometimes I am carrying very heavy things, illnesses, past traumas, friends going through their hardest moments, really tough things.
• 8:43
  Alex Alexander: And now I'm carrying it alone, because I have promised this friend that I will not go out and share it with a bunch of people, and there is a cost to that. Sometimes I want to cry about something I know about a friend that I'm not telling anyone else, because I hate that they are going through that thing, but that is a choice that I make, and one that I really value.
• 9:10
  Alex Alexander: Now, you might be thinking, what does Michael think about all this, and honestly, I considered having him come on as a guest for this episode, but I think we would have just ended up meandering all over the place, and it would have, it would have ended up being just like a really long episode with a lot of fluff in it. I want to keep this concise for you. We really value in our marriage, and you can go back and listen to episode two all the way in the archives, where he actually is a guest, and we do talk about some of this, but we really believe that our marriage is stronger when we have this web of support around us, when we each have connections that can hold us up, when one of us doesn't have capacity, when. And one of us doesn't have a specific skill set, when I don't know, Michael wants to go see a basketball game that I'm not particularly interested in, or I want to fly somewhere for a concert that he has no interest in that artist, so it can be fun things, it can be hard things, it can just be having additional people in our lives, we really value that, and we believe that that makes our marriage stronger to have this support system around us, and part of that is sometimes, I guess, sacrificing, even though it's not a sacrifice, like having these really strong boundaries and realizing that we're not always going to tell each other everything, and there are going to be things that each of us know that the other person doesn't know for the sake of those other friendships, so that they stay strong, and it's to the point where sometimes we'll be talking about something, and I'll look at Michael or he'll look at me and I'll be like I know three things about people like our friends that you don't know right now I wonder when you're going to find out those things those might be that I know somebody is pregnant I know somebody is moving I know somebody is switching jobs I know somebody is gonna learn guitar, and they feel embarrassed, and they didn't want Michael to know. They've just told a couple people somebody's doing something for their health that they feel self-conscious about. It could be literally anything. Now, I won't say this about things that I think he maybe is never gonna find out, but if I think they're things that I just know sooner because a certain friend has told me, sometimes I'll tell him, like, I know three things right now, and I can't wait till you find out about those things, and he has the same thing, you know, I can think of a time, well, many times, but one of them where a guy friend of ours that Michael is very close with, like definitely closer than I am, told him that they were trying to get pregnant, having a hard time conceiving, expecting, moving, whatever, having financial struggles, and they told him in confidence, so he did not tell me, he did not mention it to me, he did not give me any inkling that something was going on, and months later these friends share with me, or they share with a wider group, and they're often shocked because I have like a genuine reaction, right? I am like, whoa, wait, what's happening? And they're really trying to gage, like, wow, are you that good of an actress? I'm like, guys, no, I really didn't know. Michael really has known that all on his own since you told him. There's also times where I'm thinking of one example in particular where, like, one of us knows something about a friend that I would love to know. For example, there is a friend of ours that I know is having a hard time in one area of life specifically. I know kind of the general idea of what's happening, but I have not sat down and had an extensive conversation about what is going on. However, Michael has, she has told him everything, all the nuances, and on some level, like, would I love to know, would I love to be read in.
• 13:41
  Alex Alexander: Sure, yeah, I'm always interested in our friends' lives, and especially want to be there to support them in their struggles.
• 13:49
  Alex Alexander: But for whatever reason, she feels like Michael is a better support person for her in this area of life, and that's not really about me, it's about the fact that our friend has someone she can turn to. I don't care if it's me, Michael, another friend, a parent, her partner.
• 14:06
  Alex Alexander: She has someone, and that is all I care about. So, every once while, I'll look at Michael, and I'll be like, 'Hey, so that thing that's going on with her, are we feeling like it's okay, or is it still going on? And I'll just be like, yeah, it seems like it's still going on.
• 14:27
  Alex Alexander: I'll be like, okay, and that's all I know, guys. That's really all I know. I know he knows all the nuance of who and when and where, and like the most recent updates. I just know it's still ongoing, and she's still struggling with this kind of generic thing, there have also been so many times where this kind of trust has rippled out, and what I mean by that is, yes, Michael and I have this with our individual friendships, but then, like, friend. Of friends start to realize or mutual friends, so this actually just happened last night. A friend was asking about some other friends and some big news they shared, and I was like, well, yeah, I've known for about six months now that this is happening, and they were all like, wait, you've known for six months. How have you known for six months? There was no inkling that you knew. And on one hand, I guess they could be upset about that, or they could be trying to like get me to break, but I also think in their minds they think, like, wow, well, if we told Alex or we told Michael or we told them together, they're like a vault, they're not leaking this to anybody, and that's what we are trying to create. If you set a boundary and ask us not to share, or if we feel like there is a boundary, we will work so hard to keep it locked up tight. Our friends know that if they ask us, we won't even with each other. Now, the other thing about this trust ripple is, if you think about my wheel of connection diagram, and if you're like, what is that, Alex, it is something that will truly change your life. You can either go listen to episode 100 or you can head to the show notes, and you can get my book, because that is where I go the deepest into the wheel of connection.
• 17:33
  Alex Alexander: But my wheel of connection really breaks down the different types of connections in your life, and it also is connected to my roots of friendship framework, which is episode 12 also in the show notes, but something I want you to think about is if a friend is sharing something with me, and I would consider them a present friend. T hey are someone I have a very, very deep and extensive set of emotional intimacy roots with.
• 18:02
  Alex Alexander: We have a lot of story roots. We have a lot of beliefs and expectations about our friendship. They might share something with me, and then if I came home and I shared it with Michael, Michael might only be their defined or familiar friend. He doesn't have the same roots that I have, and so if they were all in the room together, this friend probably wouldn't share it with Michael because they don't have the same level of emotional connection, they don't have the same belief that he will support them, they haven't built up all this evidence of how he's going to react, and so I really take that into account, like not only is it the boundaries piece, but I think when you zoom out and you look at the mechanics of what are happening in our friendships, it makes a lot of sense if a friend told you something, you told your partner, and then that friend is mad at you because they're just thinking, like, well, I don't really know your partner, I see them at, like, a couple birthday parties and a couple parties here and there, they're not someone I would share with. I think that's totally valid, and the mechanics underneath that really back that up.
• 19:17
  Alex Alexander: If you're like Alex, what the heck are you talking about? Go listen to episode 12, episode 100 or go get a copy of my book.
• 19:26
  Alex Alexander: Now, this entire episode, everything I am talking about today. This only works because Michael and I share a value. It works because we believe that our individual relationships outside of our marriage support each of us as humans, as people, as growing, changing beings, and that we each individually need that support, and when we are supported in that way individually, that shows up positively in our marriage and strengthens our marriage. It also just helps us individually out as people, and because we love and care about each other so much, I want him to have the strongest support system possible, always, even if something happened to us as a couple. I've loved him for so long, like almost 17 years at this point. Even then, with all the conflicting emotions, I would want him to have a very deep support system, and therefore I want him to have those relationships, and that trust, and that emotional depth, and that security, even if it comes at the cost of us working really hard to have boundaries to hold things for our friends, and, like I mentioned earlier, if you want to go listen more about Michael and I talk about our beliefs when it comes to marriage and friendship, you can go literally all the way back to the beginning and listen to episode two, where he is my first guest ever on the podcast, but that episode still holds strong.
• 21:05
  Alex Alexander: So that's today's hot take, we frame that keeping secrets from your partner, from another close friend. I know I really focus this episode on your partner, but this could also be in, like, a friendship trio, in a friend group, in a community organization. It is so important to respect the other relationships around you. It really has nothing to do with you. It has to do with the fact that your friends are holding something for their friend, not hiding something from you. It applies to all relationships, even if I really focused on marriage or partnership or dating today, because I do think that's the one where a lot of us give ourselves permission, of like, well, they're my, they're my spouse, so I tell them everything. I don't like it, I don't like it, that's my hot take. Don't do it. You are doing it at the cost of your friendship, and keeping those secrets is not a betrayal. It is actually a gift. It is a gift when your friends can trust you fully, completely, even from your own partner, your own mom, your own sister, your other best friend, the pharmacist you met yesterday, that makes you a better friend, and it builds you a stronger web that holds you up and everyone else around you up, and in the case of this episode, even your marriage.
• 22:42
  Podcast Intro/Outro: Thank you for listening to this episode of Friendship IRL. I am so honored to have these conversations with you, but don't let the chat die here. Send me a voice message — I created a special website just to chat with you. You can find it at alexalex.chat. You can also find me on Instagram; my handle is @itsalexalexander. Or go ahead and leave a review wherever you prefer to listen to podcasts. Now, if you want to take this conversation a step further, send this episode to a friend. Tell them you found it interesting, and use what we just talked about as a conversation starter the next time you and your friend hang out. No need for a teary goodbye— I'll be back with a new episode next week.