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Bravery of captain and passengers on FlyDubai flight prevents tragedy · DEEP INSIGHT

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  Speaker 1: An investigation is underway after a co-pilot allegedly attacked the
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  Speaker 1: captain of a fly Dubai passenger jet en route from
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  Speaker 1: Dubai to Tel Aviv. carrying more than 170 people. Israeli
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  Speaker 1: officials now say that they believe that the suspect had
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  Speaker 1: been radicalized and may have been intending to carry out
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  Speaker 1: a suicide attack. The FlyDubai flight plunged more than 1,400
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  Speaker 1: feet in seconds before passengers and crew intervened, preventing what
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  Speaker 1: some Israeli officials have described as a near catastrophe.
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  Speaker 2: Good evening, SkyDubai 1073, Ben Gurion Tower.
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  Speaker 3: Welcome to Israel.
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  Speaker 2: Thank you for bringing our passengers safely back home.
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  Speaker 4: An arrival just like any other at Israel's main international
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  Speaker 4: airport on Wednesday. Though the journey had been anything but
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  Speaker 4: the norm. Around two and a half hours into the
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  Speaker 4: flight between Dubai and Tel Aviv, things went drastically wrong.
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  Speaker 5: Suddenly the aircraft dropped, a massive drop, a massive turbulence.
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  Speaker 5: for 20, 30 seconds, then balance, and then once again
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  Speaker 5: drop for 10 seconds and bounce again.
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  Speaker 3: And then we saw that in the front of the aircraft,
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  Speaker 3: there was a riot.
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  Speaker 1: Many people rushed.
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  Speaker 3: Over there, and apparently one pilot stabbed the other.
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  Speaker 4: Captain Smit Machar from India was the victim of an
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  Speaker 4: attack from an as-yet-unnamed fellow pilot. Only Machar's quick thinking,
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  Speaker 4: releasing the cockpit door lock as he lay in a
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  Speaker 4: pool of his own blood, prevented a major disaster. An
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  Speaker 4: act widely praised later on, including by Indian Prime Minister
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  Speaker 4: Narendra Modi, who pointed to the captain's immense courage in
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  Speaker 4: grave danger. Crew and passengers heroically entered the cockpit and
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  Speaker 4: subdued the attacker, reportedly an Omani national. Off-duty pilots on
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  Speaker 4: board then pulled the aircraft out of an already 14,000-foot
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  Speaker 4: plunge before diverting to a nearby airport in Saudi Arabia.
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  Speaker 2: They managed to take control of the aircraft.
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  Speaker 4: Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was among those to welcome
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  Speaker 4: home passengers, praising those on board for preventing, quote, another 9-11.
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  Speaker 5: I salute these heroes who showed extraordinary resourcefulness and courage.
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  Speaker 5: They saved many lives. They prevented a major disaster. The
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  Speaker 5: plane landed safely at Tabuk Airport in Saudi Arabia. All
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  Speaker 5: of the passengers are out of danger. The offending pilot
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  Speaker 5: has been arrested. and is currently being interrogated by the
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  Speaker 5: Saudi authorities.
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  Speaker 4: Captain Machar is being treated for his injuries at hospital.
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  Speaker 4: At this early stage, the underlying motives behind the attack
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  Speaker 4: are unknown.
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  Speaker 1: And let's get more. We are joined by DW senior
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  Speaker 1: international correspondent Fani Fachar in Jerusalem. How are Israelis reacting
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  Speaker 1: to this, Fani?
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  Speaker 6: There's a deep sense of insecurity in Israel, especially since
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  Speaker 6: October 7th, 2023, and the anniversary is just coming up
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  Speaker 6: next week, the day when Hamas militants killed nearly 1,200
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  Speaker 6: people and abducted more than 200. And this runs very
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  Speaker 6: deep here among Israelis. There's this feeling of vulnerability. There's
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  Speaker 6: this feeling that an attack could happen any time. And
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  Speaker 6: in fact, there was a poll conducted in July with
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  Speaker 6: this question, asking Israelis just how safe, how secure they feel,
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  Speaker 6: and only one third answered answer that they feel very,
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  Speaker 6: very secure and the rest of them only moderate or.
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  Speaker 3: Not safe at all.
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  Speaker 6: And I think this is very important to put in
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  Speaker 6: context also with regard to the rising anti-Semitism worldwide and
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  Speaker 6: where this vulnerability is coming from. Of course, also playing
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  Speaker 6: out amid the way the Israeli government conducted its war
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  Speaker 6: in Gaza and all the violence that keeps playing out
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  Speaker 6: against Palestinians in the occupied West Bank, ordinary civilians.
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  Speaker 3: So a lot of Israelis are saying that they.
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  Speaker 6: Are basically bearing the brunt of Israeli's policies and they
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  Speaker 6: just simply don't feel safe enough. But while there is
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  Speaker 6: this sense of shock and insecurity, there's of course also
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  Speaker 6: this sense of relief that that plane could land and that...
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  Speaker 6: no passenger was seriously physically harmed. Of course, the mental injury,
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  Speaker 6: to say so, is something that every passenger will have
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  Speaker 6: to cope with in one way or the other, as
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  Speaker 6: we're hearing all the assessments and the way they are
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  Speaker 6: explaining what they went through. But yes, there's a combination
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  Speaker 6: of insecurity, but also a very deep sense of relief
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  Speaker 6: that a possible catastrophe could be, was averted.
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  Speaker 1: And Fanny, what have the passengers been saying?
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  Speaker 6: They were basically describing this more than as just being
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  Speaker 6: scared on a flight because of turbulence, but they were
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  Speaker 6: talking really about near-death experience. We hear a lot of
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  Speaker 6: passengers say they thought, quote, we thought we are going
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  Speaker 6: to die. But there's also some surrealness the way these
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  Speaker 6: stories are emerging from what happened on the plane as
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  Speaker 6: we speak.
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  Speaker 3: Here are the accounts of various.
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  Speaker 6: Passengers, witnesses to say so now from board. One in particular,
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  Speaker 6: for example, who described the way towards Prime Minister Netanyahu
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  Speaker 6: in his bloody T-shirt.
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  Speaker 3: It was still stained with blood.
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  Speaker 6: And how he was explaining to Prime Minister Netanyahu and
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  Speaker 6: with that also to the world how he apparently took
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  Speaker 6: out the attacker or the suspect who apparently attacked the pilot,
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  Speaker 6: but also how he apparently took control, at least partially,
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  Speaker 6: of the plane without being a pilot himself because he
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  Speaker 6: said that he saw it on some TV show. Also,
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  Speaker 6: there was a passenger who was a dentist who claims
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  Speaker 6: that he helped to stabilize the pilot that was attacked.
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  Speaker 6: So there are a lot of stories coming from that
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  Speaker 6: are being told from various passengers. While, of course, there
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  Speaker 6: are a lot of questions also in first place how
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  Speaker 6: this incident could happen and what security breaches may have
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  Speaker 6: happened overall. And obviously, that is up to investigations to
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  Speaker 6: decide what really exactly happened that this incident played out
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  Speaker 6: the way it did.
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  Speaker 1: What is the latest on the investigation, Fani? I mean,
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  Speaker 1: it's a Dubai plane and crew. The plane and the
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  Speaker 1: suspect are now on Saudi territory. To what extent will
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  Speaker 1: Israel be able to be involved in the investigation?
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  Speaker 6: First of all, multiple countries want to be involved, but
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  Speaker 6: the United Arab Emirates is very much clearly in the
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  Speaker 6: lead because the plane was registered in the Emirates. Now,
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  Speaker 6: Saudi Arabia will also partially be part of the investigation
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  Speaker 6: simply because this is where the plane landed. And also,
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  Speaker 6: this is where apparently the suspect still is, unnamed, by
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  Speaker 6: the way, so far. There's not much information about him.
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  Speaker 6: And Israel, the Israeli government, Prime Minister Netanyahu, in fact,
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  Speaker 6: said that he wants to get.
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  Speaker 3: To the root of of what really happened.
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  Speaker 6: And this is something that, by the way, is being criticized,
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  Speaker 6: especially given that elections are coming up in Israel in
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  Speaker 6: a few weeks.
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  Speaker 3: This is especially criticized.
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  Speaker 6: Among those people who do not support Prime Minister Netanyahu,
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  Speaker 6: but the so-called anti-Netanyahu bloc, because they say, Why does
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  Speaker 6: he want to get to the root of the problem
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  Speaker 6: here so quickly, while when it comes to October 7th,
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  Speaker 6: and a lot of parallels are being drawn now between
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  Speaker 6: October 7th and what happened, or could have possibly happened
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  Speaker 6: on that flight, why he kept blocking an independent investigation
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  Speaker 6: into October 7th? So clearly there are accusations also amongst
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  Speaker 6: the opposition towards the government that Prime Minister Netanyahu basically
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  Speaker 6: just wants to benefit from all of this ahead of
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  Speaker 6: the elections by pressing for an investigation into... And as
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  Speaker 6: I say, wanting to get to the root, to the
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  Speaker 6: bottom of the situation here.
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  Speaker 1: And at the same time, Fani, I mean, we have
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  Speaker 1: to say Benjamin Netanyahu, you know, he's been trying, we've
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  Speaker 1: seen him out there trying to reestablish his image as
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  Speaker 1: Israel's security protector. Is this incident likely to have, you know,
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  Speaker 1: an impact based upon, you know, what you're feeling about
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  Speaker 1: the mood there in Israel on the election?
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  Speaker 6: There are no new polls at this point that could
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  Speaker 6: underline whether the pro-Netanyahu bloc, I should say, because nobody
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  Speaker 6: is directly voting for Mr Netanyahu himself, but for the parties.
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  Speaker 6: But there's no indication at this point that Prime Minister
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  Speaker 6: Netanyahu is going to benefit from this. However, some analysts
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  Speaker 6: say that temporarily at least, he could have some advantage
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  Speaker 6: in the next couple of days simply by what you
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  Speaker 6: just said, portraying himself as this protector of the country.
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  Speaker 6: We really just have to see, but one thing we
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  Speaker 6: can say for sure, that everything right now is very
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  Speaker 6: much emotionally and politically charged, both ahead of October 7th
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  Speaker 6: next week and ahead of the elections end of this month.
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  Speaker 1: DW correspondent Fani Fachar.
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  Speaker 3: Thank you, Fani.
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  Speaker 1: And let's get more now. We're joined by aviation journalist
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  Speaker 1: David Learmount, who joins us from London. And, you know,
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  Speaker 1: we've heard this extraordinary report here that this aircraft reportedly
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  Speaker 1: lost around 14,000 feet in less than 30 seconds. What
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  Speaker 1: does this tell you about what may have been happening
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  Speaker 1: at the controls? Does it indicate a deliberate attempt to
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  Speaker 1: put the aircraft into a dive, for example?
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  Speaker 2: I suspect you're right. I think this was a deliberate
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  Speaker 2: attempt by the co-pilot, as we now know, to put
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  Speaker 2: the aircraft into a dive or to put it out
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  Speaker 2: of control in some way. But it looks like a
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  Speaker 2: straightforward dive. I suspect that because this was fairly late
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  Speaker 2: in the flight and this pilot must have been considering
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  Speaker 2: when he would do such a thing since he planned it,
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  Speaker 2: that he was waiting for an opportunity whereby the captain
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  Speaker 2: might choose to take a toilet break and when that
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  Speaker 2: happened that he would try to bring the aircraft down
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  Speaker 2: without disturbance but since they were getting close to the
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  Speaker 2: destination he was forced to do.
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  Speaker 1: Something and modern airline safety systems they're built around the
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  Speaker 1: assumption that that one pilot can become incapacitated But what
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  Speaker 1: happens when the threat comes from inside the cockpit? Are
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  Speaker 1: crews trained for scenarios like these?
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  Speaker 2: Nobody's trained for this situation because everybody rather hoped it
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  Speaker 2: wouldn't happen. Something exactly like this has not happened. Things
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  Speaker 2: which were approximately like it, where there are similarities, pilots
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  Speaker 2: who've tried to commit suicide or to kill people on
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  Speaker 2: board and have who succeeded in doing so usually waited
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  Speaker 2: until the other pilot was out of the cockpit. But
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  Speaker 2: in this case, that didn't happen. Now, I don't know
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  Speaker 2: what the airlines can do about this. Not very much.
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  Speaker 2: It's all very well to say, well, you must select
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  Speaker 2: your pilots more carefully. But actually, if you've had a
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  Speaker 2: pilot working for you for some time and the pilot
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  Speaker 2: becomes radicalised by some kind of political or religious movement,
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  Speaker 2: how do you guard against that? Unless you're watching... the
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  Speaker 2: individual's behavior very, very carefully throughout.
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  Speaker 1: And passengers reportedly helped restrain the attacker. In an emergency
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  Speaker 1: like this, how unusual is it for passengers to become
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  Speaker 1: part of the solution?
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  Speaker 2: I think everybody will have known, and some people would
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  Speaker 2: have seen the film of the fourth aircraft, the aircraft
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  Speaker 2: that didn't actually manage to hit its targets at 9-11.
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  Speaker 2: the Flight 91 passengers realised from communications from mobile phones
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  Speaker 2: from their families what had happened to other aeroplanes. They
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  Speaker 2: realised it was happening to them and they stormed the cockpit. Nowadays,
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  Speaker 2: it's rather more difficult because since that time, the cockpit
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  Speaker 2: doors are permanently locked and they can only be unlocked
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  Speaker 2: from the inside. And it's absolutely true what Narendra Modi,
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  Speaker 2: the president of India, has said, that the captain saved
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  Speaker 2: the day because before he was made unconscious by the
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  Speaker 2: knife attack, he managed to open the door which let
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  Speaker 2: cabin crew in. If he hadn't done that, I think
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  Speaker 2: that would have been the end of the airplane and
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  Speaker 2: everybody on it.
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  Speaker 3: At this stage.
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  Speaker 1: What evidence will investigators be looking for to determine motive
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  Speaker 1: and establish exactly what happened in those crucial seconds?
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  Speaker 2: Obviously, the individual concerned, the co-pilot, is being interviewed. I
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  Speaker 2: think it's almost an academic matter what this individual's motivation
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  Speaker 2: would have been, because it was a very malignant a
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  Speaker 2: very very maligned state of mind had he become mentally
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  Speaker 2: unbalanced or was he politically supercharged or religiously in a
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  Speaker 2: state of religious zeal if you go in and you
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  Speaker 2: find out that it was let's say a case of
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  Speaker 2: religious zeal what do you do about that do you
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  Speaker 2: tell somebody to stop going to their place of worship
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  Speaker 2: what do you do It really does go into the
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  Speaker 2: realms beyond what an ordinary airline on its own can
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  Speaker 2: cope with. And even all the airline organizations like the
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  Speaker 2: International Civil Aviation Organization, there are plans afoot and they
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  Speaker 2: have been carrying out ever since 9-11 to make sure
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  Speaker 2: that crews are very well aware of what possible risks
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  Speaker 2: there are. But there are so many variations to this
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  Speaker 2: kind of risk.
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  Speaker 1: Looking at everything that we know so far, what do
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  Speaker 1: you believe is the single most important aviation safety lesson
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  Speaker 1: from this incident in particular?
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  Speaker 2: I think more or less what the captain did. Basically,
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  Speaker 2: get the door open from the inside because nobody can
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  Speaker 2: open it from the outside if you don't want them to.
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  Speaker 2: Get the door open and get help. from the cabin crew,
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  Speaker 2: from the passengers. And I don't think that you'll ever
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  Speaker 2: have any trouble getting help from the passengers, even if
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  Speaker 2: there are risks involved, because if they don't help, if
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  Speaker 2: people don't assist, then everybody's doomed anyway.
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  Speaker 1: David Learmount, thank you so much for joining us to
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  Speaker 1: share that perspective. We appreciate it.