Latest / The Relentless Pursuit of Winning Podcast / Beyond Perks: Building a Workplace Culture Where People Thrive | Mary Baird

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Beyond Perks: Building a Workplace Culture Where People Thrive | Mary Baird · The Relentless Pursuit of Winning Podcast

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Corporate America in particular is kind of broken,
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We were creating burnout. creating unreasonable expectations and telling
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our people do whatever it takes and be always on
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And so then what happens? You don't hit the targets,
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layoff.
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Better employee experience equals better customer experience,
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which equals better business results.
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You have to actually listen to your workforce,
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which sounds so silly and simple,
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but very few companies do it right,
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What's broken here at this organization?
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and this is really important: how would you fix it?
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Hey folks, we're back with another episode of the Relentless Pursuit
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of Winning Podcast. My name is Rick Meekins.
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I am your host today, and in our studio,
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we have Mary Baird. How are you today,
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ma'am?
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I'm great, thanks. Excited to be here.
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I am happy you're here. Folks,
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this is gonna be an absolutely fantastic show.
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Mary is an absolute blessing to you.
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So pay attention. But before we get to it,
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if you haven't done it already,
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please like, subscribe, and hit the bell so you can get updates every time
1:19
we drop a new episode. And without further ado,
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let's get to it. So Mary, you do you've been doing this for a minute.
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You know the drill. Who are you?
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What do you do and why do you do what you do?
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Well, so my name is Mary Baird.
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I own a company called The Simplifiers.
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And gosh, yeah, as an entrepreneur,
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I've been doing this for quite a bit.
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I launched the company way back when in 2003,
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first 11 years was producing large-scale corporate events,
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mainly employee engagement, leadership development style events.
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sold off the event business, moved to England,
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spent seven years focusing in public speaking,
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workshop facilitation, leadership development,
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moved back to the States in the pandemic,
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zero stars, do not recommend. went into corporate.
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I was like, well, what's it like inside the belly of the beast?
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and spent a few years there learning why things take as long as they do.
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learned a lot, learned about dynamics and workplace culture from
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the inside rather than just being the running partner consultants on the outside.
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And then came out of that and was like,
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you know what, it's time to write a book.
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So I wrote a book called Squash the Sunday Scaries,
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helping to improve the employee experience and giving a practical playbook
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to people managers and HR leaders all over the world.
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So here we are now, present day,
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that's the work I'm doing.
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What what what about your amazing podcast?
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yeah.
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yeah, the along the way there's a there's a podcast as well.
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Well,
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fun fact, Rick, I don't know if you know this,
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but in my twenties I was actually a radio DJ for a great number of years.
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And so it's really, really funny to come full circle 20 some odd years later
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to be able to, you know, utilize those communication skills.
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I mean, I was a UT grad for radio,
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television, film. I mean, I actually did something with the degree,
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which is incredible. ~
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What?
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Yeah, the The Simplifiers podcast.
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Every single week I interview someone super smart,
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just like yourself, who can take one topic in work or in life and simplify it.
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so we're in season nine now, a little over four hundred some
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odd interview episodes and another 160 or so solo episodes.
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And the ones that I'm really proud of now ~ are really focused
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on leadership and culture strategy,
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those conversations that are really driving the needle,
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I I hope. And also I do these guided visualization episodes now that are really,
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really fun. So listeners listen with their eyes closed,
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regulate their breathing, and help them visualize what it is they want to create.
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So if that sounds interesting to any of you guys,
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you can check us out online, thesimplifiers.com.
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Hmm, that sounds really interesting.
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My goodness. what was a standout episode for you that just kind of had like your
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jaw on the floor, like, wow, I didn't know.
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Yeah, one of my recent episodes was with Steve Cadigan.
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He was the very first CHRO, the chief human resources officer
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for LinkedIn. So
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Mm-hmm.
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big, big, big, tall, giant job and and role for him to build LinkedIn when
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it was like I think he said, you know,
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when he started there was six hundred people,
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when he ended, there was thousands and thousands of people working at LinkedIn.
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and one of the things that he talked about is something that I also preach as well.
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The way we work is changing fundamentally.
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people are jumping from lily pad to lily pad,
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whether by choice or by layoff and force,
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which is such a bummer. I had heard a stat recently that Gen Z are
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on average going to have twenty-four jobs in their career
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Twenty-four jobs. Can you imagine?
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I mean, I think back on my career path and a lot of it was being an entrepreneur.
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I maybe had 10, you know? And
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~
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so realizing that the future of work is changing.
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So how do you as a people manager or an HR leader really
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do strategic workforce strategic planning?
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Like how do we rethink what jobs are?
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How do we rethink what an organization should look like?
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And
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And you know, support that lily pad jumping that people are going to have to do.
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You know, that's that's that's a really great point.
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I wanna I wanna circle back to that though.
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And wanna I wanna talk a little bit about like your your entrepreneurial journey.
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You know, it's it's
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Hmm.
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like what what made you make that leap?
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I mean, a lot of people, most people,
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I don't I don't only in s us insane people go from,
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you know, hey, I've got a paycheck to hey,
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let's let's go start a job doing or start a business doing something that
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you know we we kinda know a little bit about,
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but you know, probably more than the average person.
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Yeah, I think entrepreneurial people have a slight bit of delusion.
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I think that's an important piece in the brain that you have to be
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a little bit delusional to believe that something is possible.
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but I also think entrepreneurs that are really successful,
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and you know, I hate to throw out the terrible stat,
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but isn't it ninety percent of new businesses fail in the first five years because
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of cash flow? They don't know how to manage the money pi part of it.
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But for those 10% that do pursue on,
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I think it also is somebody who is curious that sees the world and goes,
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why is that so painful? You know,
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whatever that is, and builds a product or service that helps alleviate that pain
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or suffering just even a little bit.
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So being curious and seeing the world around you and going,
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what part could I simplify? And you know,
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that's really the genesis of calling my company The Simplifiers way,
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way, way back when.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. So so what what was your what was that thing that what
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was that problem in the in the world that you wanted to to solve and what what
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was your journey like?
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Yeah, so I launched the Simplifiers down in Austin,
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Texas in 2003. And thank goodness I was smart enough back then to like
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not call it Mary Baird's event planning group or whatever,
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right? That
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Yeah.
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I actually gave it a generic name,
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like the Simplifiers. And for me,
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my motivation was events. I I have always been a strong believer in events
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are a way for bringing people together,
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creating community and belonging.
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And also a place and environment for learning and celebration as well,
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but not frivolous events. And I what I was noticing down in Austin,
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Texas, way, way, way back when is that meetings in particular,
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my God, just shoot me now. Like they don't have to be so gosh darn boring.
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and so we in the first really five to seven years as I was building that business,
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I was like, why don't we make non-traditional events?
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Right.
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leadership strategy retreats in airplane hangars.
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you know, I don't know, a talent acquisition opportunity or activation
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in South by Southwest in a speakeasy.
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Like thinking about it differently and approaching events in a different
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way to make them interesting and engaging for people and and unexpected.
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There's something wonderful and delightful about being not expecting
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the the same old, same old of details.
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And so from the concept of the The Simplifiers events have a lot of moving parts,
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especially if you're planning,
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let's say, a thousand person employee appreciation awards program at the
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end of the year. It's a thousand
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Mm-hmm.
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people you have to feed, a thousand people you have to move in and out
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of a venue safely, and also keep them engaged and excited.
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Those details and event planning in my early career were
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really exciting to me because I was like,
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well, how do I simplify that for a client?
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How do I keep all of the plates spinning and all the the vendors really super happy?
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and drive the goals of the client.
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that was a puzzle I loved putting together.
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Mm, mm, mm. So you were you were really into stakeholder engagement?
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For sure. An event is not just,
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you know, let's get a, I don't know,
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a chocolate fountain and call it a day,
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right? Like there there's so much that go into play of like being intentional about
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how you spend your money, your clients' money in particular.
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Is this driving what we want to achieve?
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You know, do we want the attendees to think,
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do or have action, you know, take action in some certain way after that event?
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and I think that that's that's what's most important is that you're you're planning
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events with intention and really listening to the client and what their challenges
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and obstacles have been. And how does this event,
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you know, which is a one-time thing,
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absolutely, build into a full year strategy.
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Like employee engagement is not a one-off,
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or pizza parties and ping pong tables would have worked years ago,
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right? Like, woohoo, they got me a ping pong table.
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They're listening. I love working here.
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No, it's multi-touch, just the same as they say that it takes you 27 times
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to see a billboard before you recognize it on your morning commute.
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Yeah. Mm.
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I
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think events and employee engagement strategy is a multi-touch moment.
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there's big moments, there's little moments,
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and how do you actually meet your employees where they are and you know,
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tell them that you care about them.
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No, I'm I'm I'm really curious.
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You you had a business that to me sounds like a a little bit a bit of
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a a unicorn business. It's not,
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you know, just the, hey, I'm gonna run this business out of the back out
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of the back of my trunk type of business.
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How did you how did you manage to build the company?
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How did you build those how did you create that trust?
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You know, even that that first client,
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you're like, hey, you know, we're gonna do this this event for you.
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It's gonna cost you more than you've ever paid,
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but you're gonna get better results than you've ever gotten.
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How did you do that?
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Man, Rick, this has taken me way back.
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But in 2003,
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Yeah.
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I had a little bit of delusion and a whole lot of curiosity.
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And I launched this company off the heels of a layoff.
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I was working for a nonprofit at the time that I loved.
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I I was their assistant director of marketing.
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I really loved the job. And and you know,
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the executive director said, I'm so sorry we're letting go of a third
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of the company because this is where we're at,
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right? we love you.
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I'm so sorry. And at that moment in 2003,
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I was like, you know what? I don't want to have another conversation where somebody
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says, we love you. I'm sorry. We're gonna let you go.
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And at
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Mm-hmm.
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that point I made the decision.
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I'm like, right, I'm gonna be the boss because I can
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Mm-hmm.
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never say no to myself, right?
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And I'm never gonna quit or fire myself in the end.
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I'm pretty darn dedicated and integrity is very important to me when I
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say I'm gonna do a thing, I'm gonna do it,
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right?
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And so those early months of getting clients,
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are you ready? I was literally like,
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I made some sort of shoestring website.
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This was well before social media,
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because
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Mm-hmm.
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Facebook
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didn't come onto the scene until 2008.
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I literally printed some flyers.
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I went door to door in my own neighborhood and started to promote my services.
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And so at first, those first six months,
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I was doing actually pretty high-end social events.
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know, 50th birthday parties, 25th anniversary kind of parties and things like that.
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Mm-hmm.
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And that's it. You just get out there,
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meet people. And
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Mm-hmm.
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so I very much believe that event planning is behind the scenes.
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You are not the host of the party.
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You're the magic maker that makes it all feel so seamless so that
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Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
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the host or hostess looks great.
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But when you have a great relationship with your client,
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and I think this translates with any industry,
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any product or service that a small business might be launching,
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guess what happens? The host is like,
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my God, you need to meet my event planner.
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Mary, come out. You meet these people,
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blah, blah, blah. And
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Mm-hmm.
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you know, one magical client led me to many,
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many clients because he was a doctor and ran a practice and introduced
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me to other doctors and
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Doctors would introduce me to their their spouses who work in big corporate,
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and then lo and behold, it does sound like it's magic,
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but if there's any entrepreneurs knowing it's everyday action behind
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the scenes of doing the thing and being bold and asking for the
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the piece of business. That eventually I'm I'm planning the opening welcome center
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for Formula One. Twenty thousand people went through our activation with
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in a matter of three days and we
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you know, took over a whole street block in downtown Austin.
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So it it can happen. Like you just have to have a little bit of delusion
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and a whole lot of curiosity and be a bit bold and ask for what you need.
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Amazing. And and you were an overnight success,
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of course.
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no, definitely not. Do not get that
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mixed up, you guys. That was years.
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I think it was right around year four of the business,
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doing it full time where I was like,
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I can't do this all by myself.
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I need to hire other people. And
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~
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I learned a lot in that juncture as well.
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Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-mm.
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Wow, wow. So let's let's let's let's let's segue into work.
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you started you s you started to allude to the idea that the idea of work
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is broken in the in the traditional sense.
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And I'd love it if you could dig into that just a little bit more,
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give our audience a little bit,
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you know, broader strokes to work with.
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Yeah. Yeah. I I I think that anyone that's listening here that has a boss knows that
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the cracks are starting to show.
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Corporate America in particular is kind of broken,
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you guys.
14:50
Mm.
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and the the stats show it as well.
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So Gallup has a annual report called The State of the Workplace.
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and it comes out right around April,
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May of every year.
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The 2025 report said that only 22% of managers
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are engaged at work globally. 2026 report,
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20%. So it's actually going down.
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that managers are showing up, you know,
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clocking in, clocking out, doing solid C minus work out there.
15:21
And the truth of the matter is,
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if you've had a terrible boss,
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you know this, right?
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Disengaged managers create disengaged teams.
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And
15:30
Mm-hmm.
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what I learned by being on the inside,
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I felt like undercover employee when I was doing it.
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I was like, wow, this is a mess.
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Like, how is
15:40
Mm-hmm. ~
15:41
it that these massive corporations that make billions and billions
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of dollars run off of kind of mediocrity,
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you know, bureaucracy of we would have meetings to rehearse what we were gonna
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say in other meetings.
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And and then have another meeting to rehearse to make sure that we were doing it.
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And when you like add up the salaries and break it down by 52 weeks and
16:04
40 hours and figure out what every single person's hourly rate is in that meeting,
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you're going, we have just spent tens of thousands of dollars
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to rehearse a three-minute presentation to our senior executives.
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That is bananas, right?
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And so their engagement scores are down,
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not only with managers, but obviously with individual contributors out there.
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And everyone, it feels like is sitting there really nervous.
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Because
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Mm-hmm.
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you you you took that on top of everything that's happened in the last
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six years since the pandemic, right?
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Mm-hmm.
16:41
Let's
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just roll the tape back really quick.
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2020 happens. no,
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Mm-hmm.
16:45
world's shutting down. Let's send everybody home.
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We didn't know really what was happening.
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So we just we we really wanted to keep everybody safe.
16:53
Mm-hmm.
16:53
And then
16:53
at some point when people are all home from work or furlough,
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they're like, this is dumb. Why do we work anyways?
16:59
And then the great resignation happened,
16:59
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
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right? Where
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people are like opting out of work altogether,
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right? Some becoming entrepreneurs,
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others going, Yeah, this is dumb.
17:08
And so then companies were going through massive hiring sprees,
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just butts and seats, hiring bonuses,
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just gotta get people back in because we gotta hit revenue targets,
17:17
right?
17:18
Supply chain was busted, right?
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We couldn't get products and services and things that we needed into
17:24
our borders in an efficient way.
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So then what happens after that?
17:28
The knock-on effect of 21, 22,
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23 is that many corporations had these sky high revenue targets to make
17:36
Mm-hmm.
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up for all the spend in 2020 and never quite hitting those targets.
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Supply chain came back, but if we had kept putting these unrealistic targets
17:47
on our work.
17:48
We were creating burnout. We were creating unreasonable expectations
17:53
and telling our people do whatever it takes and be always on and solve
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for yes and all of those stupid corporate things that we've all heard before and go,
18:02
I can't
18:02
Yeah.
18:03
roll my eyes back further enough when you say those
18:06
things to me. And so then what happens?
18:08
You don't hit the targets, layoff.
18:10
Round after round after round after round.
18:13
And so if you're a survivor and you didn't get laid off in this last round,
18:17
hooray! You now have two or three jobs and the same one salary
18:23
and expected to outperform the last season.
18:26
It's
18:27
Yeah.
18:27
not sustainable. And so I find that many corporations are still working
18:32
off of an old model of okay.
18:35
Customer experience, this is most important.
18:38
Do whatever it takes. And you know,
18:40
we're gonna drive money and resource to improving the customer experience,
18:44
which you're not wrong. If you can improve the product or service or
18:48
how the service bit's delivered,
18:50
that makes a customer happy and willing to come back.
18:54
But if you're doing that at the expense of your workforce and you're going,
19:00
well.
19:00
Didn't hit the numbers, let's lay them off.
19:02
Or worse, hey, they're they're really disengaged so and burnt out.
19:06
We'll find new people, right? It's not sustainable.
19:10
So
19:10
Mm-hmm.
19:11
I say focus, and it's a paradigm shift.
19:14
You focus upward in the stream.
19:17
And so my my paradigm shift is this.
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And this, by the way, is completely applicable to micro businesses,
19:25
businesses of one to ten people as well.
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So entrepreneurs.
19:30
Listen up. Better employee experience equals better customer experience,
19:36
which equals better business results.
19:39
So you move the focus up in the funnel.
19:42
So, and I'm not saying that you put all of your money and all of your eggs into
19:46
the employee experience basket,
19:48
but diversify your strategy, right?
19:51
If you focus on simple practical ways to improve the employee experience,
19:56
guess what happens? Your employees go,
19:59
wow.
20:00
They they do care about me. They are investing in me,
20:03
no matter how long or short I'm here for,
20:05
right? And then that makes them want to deliver a better employee
20:11
or better customer experience,
20:13
right? And then
20:14
Mm-hmm.
20:14
when you do that, what do customers do?
20:16
They tell their buddies, they tell their friends,
20:19
and they go, man, I had a really great experience at that company.
20:22
I'm renewing, I'm gonna upgrade,
20:25
I'm gonna keep my contracts. And that turns into revenue and profits.
20:30
So again, the focus should be at the top of the funnel,
20:34
just even with your strategy, not necessarily needing a big spend or
20:38
a lot of headcount. You're focusing on how do I improve the employee experience
20:43
so my people are more engaged and willing and able to deliver
20:48
a world-class customer experience.
20:50
And
20:50
Mm-hmm.
20:51
that creates the results, which require fewer layoffs.
20:56
Mm
20:56
mm. What what I s what I've seen,
20:59
a a fr a friend of mine just just got laid off jobs she absolutely loved.
21:03
And you know, this was the this was the second round,
21:06
you know, of layoffs, you know,
21:07
at her company. And I can't imagine you know,
21:11
seeing a bunch of people getting laid off.
21:12
And happened to my ex wife as well.
21:14
You see these rounds of layoffs,
21:15
and how do you go to work? You know,
21:18
knowing that you could be next.
21:20
I mean
21:21
I do how would you create a customer experien or excuse me,
21:24
an employee experience that is,
21:27
you know, comfortable with the idea that hey,
21:29
you may get you may not have a job next week and you're finding out that quick.
21:32
Yeah. Yeah.
21:33
It's
21:34
not like, hey, we're gonna lay you off in thirty days.
21:36
It's like, hey, sorry, you don't have to you don't have a job tomorrow.
21:39
Yeah, it's devastating. And I,
21:42
you know, I think that senior executives,
21:44
I'm just gonna say it. I think your senior executives at any major corporation
21:48
are focused on three things, you guys.
21:50
and I dare say any small business owners are probably focused on these same three
21:55
things. How do I make the company money?
21:58
How do I save the company money?
22:01
And how do I keep and retain my customer base,
22:05
right?
22:05
Mm-hmm.
22:06
That's what they're focused on.
22:07
How do we make money, save money,
22:08
and and retain and deliver a world-class customer experience?
22:12
That's it. Everything else that you talk about or pitch upwards
22:17
to your senior executive team is like Charlie Brown's teacher,
22:20
like ~
22:22
Ha ha ha.
22:22
they don't hear anything until you tell them what this dru this does
22:27
to drive those three initiatives,
22:28
right?
22:29
Mm-hmm.
22:29
But that's the thing, if you were to say those things to your workforce,
22:33
like this is our focus, making money,
22:35
saving money, and and driving the that's not what motivates them,
22:39
right? The
22:39
Mm-hmm.
22:40
the actual tactical frontline workers who are interfacing with the customers
22:44
all day long, their priorities are completely different.
22:47
So I think in my opinion, You have to actually listen to your workforce,
22:53
which sounds so silly and simple,
22:55
but very few companies do it right,
22:57
I think.
22:58
Employee listening is step one.
23:01
And when you to actually listen to your people and say,
23:04
hey, What's broken here at this organization?
23:08
You could literally send that one the question survey right now and
23:13
see what people come back with.
23:15
and then the follow-on question,
23:16
and this is really important: how would you fix it?
23:19
Because
23:20
Mm-hmm.
23:20
think about this. If you have an organization,
23:23
this say you're a fast-growing small business,
23:25
you've got 50 employees.
23:27
There is a certain set of those people who are actually front lines interfacing with
23:31
your customer all day long, right?
23:33
Mm-hmm.
23:33
And you
23:33
may or may not have visibility to what that experience is like for your customer.
23:38
And so you might be a bit detached.
23:40
And so when you ask your people at all levels,
23:44
all departments, what's broken here?
23:46
And how would you fix it? Different people have different perspectives that
23:50
you may not have any visibility on.
23:52
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
23:52
They're your blind spots. And so
23:55
Of course you want to ask. And they say,
23:57
you know, it's so hard to get clean uniforms to our frontline service engineers that
24:02
go out to people's houses and,
24:03
you know, fix their internet or whatever.
24:05
And so they show up in these kind of dingy uniforms and not feeling
24:09
too proud about being an employee there.
24:12
And the
24:12
Mm-hmm.
24:12
customers are like, God, has this guy ever washed his shirt?
24:16
You know? That changes the customer experience.
24:18
But in reality, you may not even be aware that that's an issue.
24:23
at play that's affecting your bottom line,
24:26
your results, your your profit and revenue.
24:28
And it's a simple fix, right? You have a online ordering system for,
24:32
you know, your frontline workers to get their uniforms easily.
24:36
It's already linked to their budget code.
24:38
Pish posh boosh, new uniforms,
24:40
you know, in two days. It's a simple fix for something that felt like,
24:44
well, no one's listening to me.
24:46
I just have to keep showing up in this dingy t shirt because I can't
24:49
get anything better.
24:51
Yeah, yeah.
24:51
So that's
24:52
just one example. When you listen,
24:54
you know, and you say, you said this,
24:57
we did this, and here's what's next.
25:00
That is a closed loop conversation,
25:03
a com and it's an appropriate way to communicate that I heard you.
25:08
When you shared information about what's broken here,
25:11
we did something about it, and and here's what we're planning next.
25:14
That rebuilds that trust, especially after a layoff.
25:18
Because you know what? I don't think layoffs are gonna end anytime soon,
25:22
especially with AI and automation on the rise.
25:24
But I think that humanity can still be improved by saying,
25:29
hey, we know that this is a really hard situation and we did not want
25:33
to make these cuts. We hear you,
25:36
we're doing this, and here's what's next,
25:39
is part of that employee listening to rebuild that trust and have people tell
25:45
you the truth of what's
25:47
really broken here and then you can take action and improve it.
25:51
So so how do how do we keep people I I hear what you're saying about listening
25:55
to the team and and and
25:56
Mm. Yeah.
25:56
I love that. I th I think that's fantastic.
25:58
~ how do how do we get people to to get that level of engagement?
26:04
So we talked about the idea that,
26:05
you know, the younger generation,
26:07
they will have, you know, 24 different jobs,
26:08
Twenty four jobs. Yeah.
26:09
you know, over the course of their yeah.
26:10
You know, I mean that's that's half of their adult,
26:12
you know, if they're adults for,
26:13
you know, 50 years, you know, if they make that fifty years,
26:17
I mean that's half of their life.
26:18
They're they're changing jobs.
26:19
How do we create as entrepreneurs,
26:22
as business leaders, how do we create a space where either we're expecting people
26:27
to be transient or we create a space that is where people want to stay?
26:32
People want to live. They want to say,
26:32
Hmm. Yeah.
26:34
Hey, you know what,
26:34
I'm gonna be here for five or ten years.
26:35
I'm gonna help build this company.
26:37
Yeah, well, a couple of things.
26:39
One, the very first time you get that survey and they say,
26:42
What's broken here? And you're like,
26:43
everything's fine, it's all great.
26:45
They're not gonna tell you the truth at the first,
26:48
right? It's gonna be like, It's great,
26:49
dumpster fire, dumpster fire, dumpster fire.
26:51
Everything's perfect. but if they tell you little bits and pieces and
26:55
you give them those quick wins,
26:57
it builds up that trust for them to go.
27:01
Okay, next time it comes out in a couple of months,
27:03
here's the real truth. Here's what's really busted here.
27:06
And then you build up that trust and over time.
27:08
So it's not a one and done and like,
27:10
woo-hoo, I'm engaged forever, you know.
27:12
and they won't always tell you the truth from the beginning.
27:14
That's one. Two, I really feel like the conversation it it
27:21
I think that we as
27:23
As leaders in an organization.
27:24
And I point towards HR because HR at more larger companies have a whole person
27:31
or team that is on organizational design and effectiveness.
27:36
O D O E is what it's called. But if you're
27:38
Mm-hmm.
27:38
a smaller business, you still can be have your lens on this.
27:42
The way we are working is changing.
27:46
I mean, I teach teams right now,
27:48
people hire me to teach their teams AI and Copilot
27:52
On a 101 level or on an advanced level.
27:55
And when you give people the tools to utilize generative AI,
28:00
whether it's copilot or ChatGPT or Claude or otherwise,
28:03
that you're activating in people a way,
28:06
a new tool for them to accelerate how they do work,
28:09
which means
28:10
Mm-hmm.
28:10
theoretically, they could be able to take on higher yielding tasks.
28:16
So all the tedious nonsense that
28:18
bogs them down, the TPS reports,
28:21
the things that can be automated or accelerated can now be done faster with
28:26
AI and so with that it's not about giving your people more it's about equipping
28:33
and empowering your people to do the very best work of their lives that's it so give
28:38
Mm. Yeah.
28:39
them the tools that help them
28:41
A thrive and be like, you know what,
28:43
this is my this is the my jam.
28:45
I'm really good at this specific piece of work.
28:48
Even if they're a bottle washer,
28:50
even if they're a data analyst or you know,
28:52
at the bottom rung of the org chart,
28:54
every single person deserves the ability to be proud of the work that they
28:59
do and be equipped with the tools they need in order to do great work
29:04
in this day and age. And
29:05
Yeah.
29:05
so
29:06
I think it requires senior leaders to start to really focus on redesigning
29:12
the job description, redesigning how organizations work,
29:17
and because AI is not going anywhere.
29:20
It's only making work faster and better potentially if
29:24
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
29:25
it's used in an ethical way and you're actually teaching your people
29:29
how to use these tools. I think that makes a big difference.
29:32
And and when a person feels
29:34
Like their organization is investing in them and their professional development like
29:39
that, it means a lot. It does.
29:40
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
29:42
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's that whole servant leadership,
29:45
you know, mentality,
29:46
That's right.
29:46
you know.
29:47
People are not numbers on a spreadsheet.
29:49
And unfortunately executives tend to look at numbers on the spreadsheet because
29:52
it makes it a lot easier for them to do layoffs,
29:55
right? If I don't know John is connected to this number because John's
29:59
my buddy and we go to golf together,
30:01
then it feels a lot better when I have to make a cut of,
30:05
you know, X number of dollars of of salaries and benefits every quarter
30:10
to just be like, these twenty we're cutting,
30:12
these fifty, these hundred. I mean
30:15
In the recent news, this is unfortunately Q four,
30:18
right? This is the season
30:19
Mm-hmm.
30:20
of layoffs right before the holidays.
30:22
Well, in the recent news, Nike,
30:24
Netflix, Meta are all going through rounds of layoffs right now.
30:29
And I don't know if you're following the Netflix story.
30:31
It's really interesting. They've had one of the most profitable quarters
30:35
in in this past quarter. So you're going,
30:37
wait, what? They're still doing layoffs,
30:39
even though they're profitable?
30:41
Doesn't make sense.
30:42
Mm. Mm-hmm. It's painful. It's painful.
30:45
Well, I mean, you see you saw the thing with Microsoft and a couple
30:47
of other companies. I I I believe this is true,
30:49
were getting in trouble because they were just offshoring so much work,
30:53
you know, which was leading to layoffs here for a lot of folks.
30:57
I mean that's it's it's it's scary.
31:00
I mean for me, I mean I haven't worked for a corporation in I've worked
31:03
I did a short stint I don't know,
31:04
a few years ago, ten years ago or something like that.
31:07
And you know, it was scary. I you've got your you've got your book about
31:11
the joys of what is it what'd you call it,
31:13
the joy of going to work Monday morning.
31:15
~ I'm kidding.
31:15
Yeah yeah. Way
31:17
Yeah. I know.
31:19
I mean and and like yes, as I was saying earlier,
31:22
not all corporations are gonna be like this,
31:24
but the ones that are struggling with engagement scores,
31:27
it the Sunday scaries are real.
31:30
You know, it's 842 PM on a Sunday night and your workers are are having
31:35
a sense of dread in the pit of their stomach.
31:38
So what do they do? They pop on another show,
31:41
they pour another glass of wine,
31:43
they maybe order some delivery food and pop an ibuprofen.
31:47
And you know, question their life choices.
31:50
And this is happening to so many people,
31:53
not even just in the US, all over the world,
31:56
that just dread Monday morning.
31:58
And in my opinion, maybe I'm a hopeful optimist.
32:02
I'm like, God, it could be better than this.
32:04
Surely it can be better than this,
32:07
right? Because, like, let's talk back on the layoffs part.
32:11
I read a study recently from Randstad Rise Smart,
32:14
which is an outplacement program.
32:15
That most managers kind of in their five to ten years of experience in their career,
32:21
Rick, you're you're gonna be blown away by this.
32:23
Most managers in the US, it takes them three to nine months to find their next role.
32:30
Three to nine months. Now you pair that stat with the other stat that's rolling
32:35
around there that 50 percent, five zero of Americans right
32:41
now currently have fifteen hundred dollars.
32:43
or less in their savings account.
32:46
I mean, like literally the math doesn't math.
32:49
How in the world can you manage,
32:51
you know, especially if you're a single income household,
32:54
three to nine months being unemployed and only fifteen hundred dollars
32:58
in your savings account? This is why people drive Uber late at night or have,
33:02
you know, after hours kind of contract work,
33:05
'cause like it doesn't make sense.
33:07
So so I think corporations are gonna continue to lean down.
33:12
and focus on profit and the people at the top are making all the money.
33:15
But I think at some point that's that it's a gonna break.
33:19
and then I think companies that are gonna rise up and actually win
33:23
in the next decade are the ones that are focused on employee experience.
33:26
Yeah. You know, I I'm wondering and I I don't know if you have some thoughts around
33:30
this idea, but you know, with with smaller companies,
33:34
you know, you you have your startups,
33:35
you've got your, you know, one,
33:36
two, three, four, five people shops,
33:38
you know,
33:38
Sure.
33:39
one of the things that we're seeing is,
33:41
you know, very talented people,
33:43
you know, just looking for work,
33:45
just getting, you know, just wanting to get employed.
33:47
But a lot of smaller companies can't afford benefits,
33:50
you know, may not be able to hire full time,
33:52
et cetera, et cetera.
33:53
I mean, what do you recommend or what what are your thoughts around being able
33:58
to create an environment to attract,
34:01
you know, some of these people that you can't quite afford,
34:03
but you know, you know, you know,
34:05
we have that chicken and egg syndrome.
34:06
If I can get this person, I can make more money,
34:08
et cetera. How how do you create that story?
34:10
How do you create that environment where people can come in,
34:13
you know, confidently and say,
34:14
Hey, you know what? I know what I can contribute to this company to help
34:17
it grow and then, you know, actually sign on that line.
34:20
Yeah.
34:21
It's it's an interesting question,
34:22
and I don't know if I have all the answers,
34:24
but I can tell you from my own perspective and just the research that
34:27
I did when writing the book, Squash the Sunday Scaries,
34:31
is more and more people are turning towards entrepreneurial pursuits than ever
34:35
before, especially in America,
34:37
right? And I think that there is some responsibility in big corporate
34:42
to realize this change because of layoffs,
34:46
because of the economy, because of where the world is.
34:50
Right now, more and
34:50
Mm-hmm.
34:51
more people are starting their own one man shop or one woman shop,
34:55
right? And while they're still employed,
34:57
by the way, right? While they're still working in corporate.
35:00
And so I think the first step is for corporate to understand that that's
35:04
a reality of, hey, you can't just keep laying people off
35:08
and expecting your survivors to just be sitting there like a,
35:11
you know, do do do do do everything's fine.
35:14
They're gonna the smart ones are gonna be like,
35:16
you know what, I need to have a side income.
35:18
I need to make sure that I
35:19
You know, if the if this goes under in the next couple of months,
35:22
I've got at least some in income coming into my household.
35:26
I think that's step one.
35:28
I think step two is as a an entrepreneur,
35:31
when I was building, and you know,
35:33
it was literally me, myself, and I doing all the things in the early days.
35:37
at first I was thinking I needed a bunch of clones of me.
35:42
Like, I could do all the things if there was just two more Marys around the table.
35:46
And that's what I'll say is is the biggest lesson I learned.
35:49
and I was alluding to earlier to in the conversation,
35:52
is that right around year four,
35:54
I I realized.
35:55
I needed to grow. I could not do it all by myself.
35:58
And
35:58
Mm-hmm.
35:58
so I made the grievous error of trying to hire people that were clones of
36:03
me or what I thought were. And that ended disastrously.
36:07
Because the reality of that is you get a bunch of you's in the room.
36:11
You may be really good and over-indexing one thing,
36:14
but you have got so many blind spots,
36:17
so many gaps that you are not missing.
36:20
So any small business owners or entrepreneurs out there that
36:23
are thinking about making their first hire.
36:25
What I recommend is find somebody who is your exact opposite who believes
36:30
in the vision of what you're building.
36:31
That's it. They have
36:32
Mm, mm.
36:33
to believe in what it is you're you're building,
36:35
and they have to fill those spots of those gaps of skills or perspectives that
36:41
you you just don't have. So if you're a super creative,
36:45
you need a technical person that is a driver and a project manager,
36:49
right?
36:50
if you're a starter, you need a closer,
36:52
all those things.
36:52
Mm-hmm.
36:53
And you just build up from there.
36:55
For me, it's interesting, you know,
36:58
start a business in 2003, still have it running in 2026.
37:03
My focus of quote unquote what's successful is way different now than what
37:09
it was in the in the early stages.
37:11
At first, I was like, I need to have an agency,
37:14
I need to have a fancy office.
37:16
I need to have this, that, and the other.
37:18
And guess what, Rick? I got all of those things.
37:21
And you know
37:21
Mm-hmm.
37:21
what comes with all that? This massive cash flow problem.
37:26
Every two weeks, you're like, how do I make payroll?
37:28
Gotta go out and there sell more clients,
37:28
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
37:30
right? And
37:31
now you're 23 in the business.
37:35
I'm like, how do I run this as lean as possible so it's profitable?
37:40
~ as
37:40
Mm-hmm.
37:41
and as profitable as possible and still give me all the things that
37:45
I'm hoping to receive, like the work that lights me up and I really,
37:49
really enjoy. But also I don't need to have a fancy office space.
37:54
I can do a lot of things with a handful of contractors literally all over the world.
37:59
You
37:59
Mm-hmm.
38:00
know, and so I the question is at that point,
38:04
after you found your exact opposite,
38:06
maybe it's a contractor, maybe it's an employee,
38:08
understand
38:10
why you want something big, what's the motivation behind big,
38:14
you know, whereas instead start thinking about how you're designing your your
38:19
organization to help you make money,
38:22
help you save money, and help you deliver a world class customer experience
38:27
and drive the things that you really,
38:29
really love to do, you know, the your secret sauce work,
38:33
the the strengths that you bring to the table,
38:36
that should be the motivation.
38:38
Mm-hmm. Yeah, you're absolutely right.
38:40
What what you have you have this recurring theme,
38:44
you know, and it's it's it it it's it's around happiness or in enjoyment.
38:48
You know, we we talk about careers,
38:51
we talk about work, or very it's it's in your book,
38:53
of course, you know. what are what are your thoughts,
38:55
you know, around the the modern workforce in terms of,
38:57
you know, how happy they are?
38:59
Yeah. I I I want to shift that and challenge it ever so slightly because
39:04
I think happiness is fleeting.
39:06
It's not a metric that is sustainable.
39:10
And quite frankly, I don't know.
39:12
If you've met anybody who's happy all the time,
39:14
like they're a little bit creepy,
39:15
you don't trust them fully. ~
39:17
Ha ha.
39:18
I I think we as humans have ups and downs,
39:20
right? So it's it's not about happiness,
39:24
in my opinion. It's about satisfaction.
39:27
Yeah, yeah, that's that's a better phrase.
39:28
eighty twenty rule, you know?
39:29
Mm-hmm.
39:30
Like I I would hope that and I think my next book,
39:33
I'll I'll say it on the podcast here first.
39:35
My next book is gonna really focus on that middle manager.
39:39
Mm-hmm.
39:39
Because
39:39
I believe that you spend more time with your manager than your spouse
39:44
and sometimes your family. And and did you know that your manager
39:48
has a greater effect on your physical and mental health than the people
39:53
you live with at home? Because you spend more time face to face with them.
39:56
You think about them at when you're not at work,
39:59
right? and so I think
40:01
Teaching managers how to in a simple practical way,
40:06
again, simplifying is always at the the core of it.
40:09
How to help your people thrive,
40:11
how to help them feel satisfied in the work that they do.
40:15
Like it actually has meaning and purpose.
40:18
I think that's the metric to track and follow and strive for.
40:23
yeah, because
40:25
I was just having this conversation a week ago.
40:26
I was teaching at the HR Southwest conference.
40:29
massive con conference every single year in October in Fort Worth,
40:33
Texas. Fifteen hundred people come to it.
40:35
And in my general session, I was just talking about this.
40:39
Like, we as leaders,
40:42
our our job and responsibility is not to make an adult daycare.
40:46
Right? We're we're not making
40:47
Mm. Yeah.
40:48
this like place that has unlimited snacks and like,
40:50
you know, wellness centers and da-da-da-da.
40:52
Like all those things are great.
40:53
They're perks. At the
40:54
Mm-hmm.
40:55
end of the day, what we're trying to do is drive performance,
40:59
right? Help our people really thrive in the world that they're doing
41:05
and delivering a world-class customer experience,
41:08
right? So it's not about fun, fun,
41:10
joy, joy, ice cream sundaes and unicorns and things.
41:13
It's it's really about
41:14
How do we deliver that world-class customer experience by also really taking good
41:20
care of our people? Because it's our people,
41:22
in my opinion, that are our greatest asset.
41:26
Not our products, not our services,
41:29
not even our client list or our vendor list.
41:32
In my opinion, our people are our greatest asset.
41:37
And so if you think about your workforce as your human capital,
41:42
How are you investing in the people that drive innovation in your products
41:46
and services, who really deliver that world-class customer experience,
41:50
who help create those relationships?
41:53
It starts with the people first.
41:55
Yeah, yeah. I agree with that.
41:56
I mean I I often look at you know,
41:58
I I look at businesses, you know,
41:59
kind of like a community. You know,
42:01
it's like we all bring our skills and experiences and that sort of thing back to it.
42:05
And, you know, when we're content,
42:07
I like I I like that word. when we're content in in the work that we're doing,
42:11
you know, we're we're not, you know,
42:13
we don't have the Sunday scaries,
42:14
you it's just like, okay, I can't wait to get to work to do my thing.
42:17
You know, it's like, you know,
42:18
some of that extra time we have off of work.
42:21
We're just like, hey, you know what,
42:22
I saw this article, da-da-da-da.
42:24
You know, it c it can help our company in in in a certain way.
42:27
And I think that we have to be really intentional,
42:29
you know, about building our companies like that.
42:32
Because I mean, we always as as human beings,
42:35
we're always striving for some level of contentment.
42:38
As you said, you know, it changes over
42:39
That's right.
42:39
time, you know, from the the the you know,
42:42
the office week to, hey, we need to simplify.
42:44
~ But, you know,
42:45
Yeah, for sure.
42:47
this is what we want.
42:48
Yeah, I think that that's that's solid.
42:50
It kind of makes me think back.
42:51
have you ever heard of the author Danielle Laporte?
42:55
Danielle Laporte has this genius book,
42:59
and she's written many books since then,
43:00
but the one that really stands out in her body of work is called The Desire Map.
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if anyone Googles that, Danielle Laporte,
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The Desire Map, and her
43:09
premise of this is is simply this.
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Instead of chasing after the bright shiny object,
43:16
like I want the fancy office, I want the the fast car,
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I want a vacation in Italy, you start instead with how do I want
43:24
to feel at work or in life?
43:27
How do I want to feel first? Well,
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hey, I want to feel connected.
43:32
I want to feel radiant. I want to feel deep contentment in my work,
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right?
43:38
Okay, cool. Once you've determined how you want to feel,
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then the second question is, what am I gonna do in order to feel the
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way I wanna feel? And that feels a lot more sustainable,
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in my opinion, when you're making vision boards in the the month of January,
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you're kicking off the new year with your goals and initiatives and all of that.
43:57
Instead of saying, Hey, I wanna make $150,000 this year and I wanna get
44:02
a brand new BMW and I wanna have the corner office.
44:06
Those things, the reason we can't ever seem to get there is that they're fleeting.
44:11
They're they're sort of shallow.
44:12
They're they're material objects.
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And even when you get them, you're like,
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well, this doesn't exactly feel the way I want to feel.
44:19
So it instead look at it from a human design space and go,
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okay, well, really what's at the core is I want to feel connected.
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So connection means that I want to build community and a sense of belonging
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in work or with my customers, my client relationships,
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what have you.
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And so you're chasing the wrong things sometimes.
44:38
And and then when you get at the core of your feelings that
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you actually understand what the drivers are.
44:43
And that same thing goes with entrepreneurs.
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like you you say, I want to build an event planning company.
44:49
Cool, great. you don't really think about all the things that come with that.
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You take on all of your clients' stress,
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you're managing eight billion logistics questions at any given time.
44:59
It's like do or die because it's you get one shot at making the event right,
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right?
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Wait, why did I build an event planning company in the first place?
45:07
I want to feel connected. I want to feel radiant.
45:10
I want to feel deep contentment in the work that I do.
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And I'll
45:13
Yeah.
45:13
tell you, my early days in the event planner,
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deep contentment was always a driver for me.
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Because
45:18
Mm-hmm.
45:19
there's nothing better than the feeling of producing a 20,000 person Formula
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One welcome center and standing back and seeing people genuinely enjoy it.
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Like
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you know, kids on their the top of their parents' shoulders looking at
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the model of the Formula One racetrack and going,
45:38
Wow, this is so cool, you know.
45:40
Yeah.
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There's deep contentment in doing work that you feel is making a positive impact
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on people. And that's worth building a business around.
45:49
absolutely. Absolutely agree with you.
45:51
Absolutely agree with you. Fantastic.
45:52
did you want to talk about your book real quick?
45:54
Yeah, sure. So the book's called Squash the Sunday Scaries,
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so I'll pull it. It's available online on Amazon or even at your local bookstore.
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and what's cool about it again is if you're a a small business owner,
46:07
a people manager, or HR leader,
46:09
it's a very simple flywheel. You start with employee listening first,
46:14
and it's a choose your own adventure book.
46:16
So you don't actually read it from start to finish.
46:19
You go to the chapters you need the most,
46:21
whether it's like leadership development,
46:23
how do I do employer branding,
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you name it. And that's a a big project that we pulled off this year.
46:29
And in 2027, I'm partnered with an agency called Good Boy,
46:34
where we are delivering employer branding work for companies.
46:38
So if your brand is a hot mess and your career website even worse,
46:43
we can help you with that.
46:45
Amazing, amazing, amazing. Last question for you,
46:47
Mary. so as you know, the the name of the show is the Relentless Pursuit
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of Winning podcast. the idea of winning is something that we
46:55
can typically figure out on our own.
46:56
Sometimes the hard part is maintaining that relentless pursuit.
47:00
So what would you recommend to our audience on how to maintain that relentless
47:04
pursuit?
47:05
Mm, great question. I think it starts with you.
47:08
And I know the best entrepreneurs that I have ever gotten the chance
47:13
to collaborate with or work alongside are ones that know they have to take care
47:19
of themselves first. and so physical health,
47:23
it sounds so silly and it is so simple,
47:26
but really incredibly important.
47:28
So moving my body every single day,
47:31
whether that's walking or lifting something heavy in the gym,
47:34
incredibly important. And I prioritize it in my calendar.
47:37
drinking enough water, getting enough sleep,
47:40
it's again, sounds silly. The food I put in my body fuels my brain.
47:45
The the movement that I do helps me,
47:48
you know, break through writer's block and and see things
47:52
in a different perspective. It allows me to make good decisions.
47:56
And so I
47:57
Highly recommend if relentless pursuit of winning is incredibly important to you,
48:02
you have to use that same drive and determination to take impeccable care
48:08
of yourself first. Everybody needs a therapist.
48:12
Go get one. Because
48:12
Ha ha ha.
48:14
this is not easy. If it was easy,
48:16
everyone would be an entrepreneur.
48:18
And so we of the few that have slight delusion and total curiosity and total drive.
48:25
We have to take good care of ourselves first in order to help and serve others.
48:31
Good stuff, good stuff. That's a unique answer.
48:32
Thank you for that. Thank you for that.
48:34
Mary, if anybody wants to get in touch with you,
48:36
what's the best way to do that?
48:38
Yeah, head over to thesimplifiers.com or find us on,
48:41
you know, any of the social media @simplifiers,
48:44
both Instagram, LinkedIn, TikTok,
48:47
you name it, that's where you can find us.
48:48
And obviously reach out to me.
48:51
Like I'm a real life human. So if you've heard this episode,
48:54
I love getting DMs on LinkedIn or otherwise and saying,
48:57
hey, I heard this episode. I'd love to set up a call and chat with you.
49:01
All right, awesome. Mary, this has been a fantastic conversation.
49:04
Thank you so much for being on the show.
49:06
It's my absolute pleasure.
49:08
And folks, thank you so much for watching and listening to another episode
49:11
of the Relentless Pursuit of Winning Podcast.
49:13
We'll catch you next time.