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The Science Behind Knowing Yourself: How Self-Awareness Changes the Way You Love w/ Dr Tasha Eurich · The Psychology of Relationships

0:00
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm Julie Craftscheck, and I'm U.A.
0:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Xu.
0:03
[SPEAKER_02]: This is the psychology of relationships.
0:07
[SPEAKER_02]: We tend to believe we're self-aware, right?
0:10
[SPEAKER_02]: But in dating and relationships that confidence can be misleading, the way we see ourselves isn't always the way we're experienced.
0:18
[SPEAKER_02]: And that gap can quietly shape everything from attraction to conflict to long-term compatibility.
0:25
[SPEAKER_02]: We're joined by Dr. Tasha Yurik,
0:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Organizational psychologists, researcher, and bestselling author of Insight to unpack what self-awareness really means in the context of love.
0:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Her research shows that most of us overestimate how self-aware we are, can impact how we communicate, choose partners, and navigate challenges in relationships.
0:46
[SPEAKER_02]: We explore the difference between internal and external self-awareness while focusing less on why am I like this to more on what can I do differently creates real change and how even a small increase in awareness can shift the way we relate to ourselves in our partners.
1:03
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not about becoming perfect.
1:05
[SPEAKER_02]: It's about becoming just a little more conscious of your patterns, your impact, and that dynamics you're co-creating.
1:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Remember to subscribe to the Psychology of Relationships on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen, and if this episode helped you see yourself and your relationships more clearly, we love a rating or a review.
1:24
[SPEAKER_02]: This is the psychology of relationships, and you're listening to an episode that just might change the way you show up for love.
1:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Enjoy!
1:33
[SPEAKER_02]: many of us believe that we're more self-aware than we actually are.
1:37
[SPEAKER_02]: And sometimes when we are actually self-aware, it doesn't mean that that's the end.
1:41
[SPEAKER_02]: So this is why we have a self-proclaimed self-awareness nerd with us today.
1:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Dr. Tasha Yurik, her mission in life is to help people become the best of who they are and what they do.
1:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Hi Tasha, how are you?
1:55
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so great.
1:56
[SPEAKER_00]: It's wonderful to be here.
1:59
[SPEAKER_02]: But today we're really gonna get into what exactly is self-awareness and what are some of the misconceptions about what it is.
2:06
[SPEAKER_02]: So let's just start there, what is self-awareness?
2:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's a very big question and it was even bigger than I thought when I first started examining this topic, but just quick background on me.
2:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm an organizational psychologist, as you mentioned, and my day job is coaching CEOs and senior executives, usually telling very,
2:25
[SPEAKER_00]: powerful, successful people that maybe there are some things they could do differently or better.
2:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And I had a client once named me the Velvet Hammer, which I thought was a nice compliment, I think.
2:38
[SPEAKER_02]: sexy.
2:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I know, right?
2:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, cool.
2:41
[SPEAKER_00]: I had been doing this for 20 years, which is crazy because the time is flown by, but in that time, what I've seen with client after client after client, not just as leaders, but as humans, the people who are willing to re-examine themselves, and even be willing to see truths
2:58
[SPEAKER_00]: either themselves or through other people's eyes that they hadn't seen or considered before were always more successful.
3:04
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that actually is what started me on this very fun, very exciting rabbit hole of empirical research on self-awareness.
3:12
[SPEAKER_00]: And my team over a dozen studies over the last 10 years we've been looking at scientifically what is self-awareness?
3:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Where does it come from?
3:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Why do we need it?
3:21
[SPEAKER_00]: And by the way, boy do we need it?
3:23
[SPEAKER_00]: And then how do we get more of it?
3:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, this has kept us very busy.
3:27
[SPEAKER_00]: But to the question, what is self-awareness?
3:29
[SPEAKER_00]: It actually took us almost a year to scientifically define this term.
3:33
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you think about it, it's kind of like the word communication.
3:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
3:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody uses the word all the time, but very often they mean entirely different things.
3:42
[SPEAKER_00]: And that was what we found just with the scientists looking at it.
3:44
[SPEAKER_00]: So here is our simple definition.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I call this simplicity on the other side of complexity.
3:49
[SPEAKER_00]: self-awareness means two things, both of which we need.
3:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Number one, knowing who we are inside internally, and then number two, understanding how other people see us.
4:00
[SPEAKER_00]: And put yourself in my shoes.
4:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Those two things early on in the research study, would you guys think they were related or not related?
4:07
[SPEAKER_00]: If you know yourself, you'd also know how other people see you and vice versa.
4:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I definitely think of it as the first part of knowing yourself less about how other people see you.
4:16
[SPEAKER_01]: So I see how they are interconnected, but also I don't know if it would be the first thought that prompted to my mind at least.
4:23
[SPEAKER_00]: See, your 12 steps ahead of where I was.
4:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, of course, these two things will be related.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And we found for any statistics nerds who are listening a 0.0 correlation.
4:34
[SPEAKER_00]: interest in your internal self-awareness, like who am I, what makes me tick, what do I want, what do I care about, and then how do I come across to other people.
4:43
[SPEAKER_00]: So that was a very interesting finding, and of course, you know, spurred a lot of other.
4:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I feel like that's why there is such an importance here, and why we wanted to talk about this as a podcast episode, as our podcast relates to dating in relationships, because there's one thing about knowing yourself and then the other piece of how you're coming off to others.
5:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Why do you think self-awareness is so important in this dating context?
5:07
[SPEAKER_00]: It's sort of everything, if you think about it.
5:09
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I come from the world of organizational psychology, and I think they're a crazy number of parallels between, for example, a job interview at the first date.
5:19
[SPEAKER_00]: In both of those situations, if you are completely focused on your own experience, not a lot of great things are going to happen, but if you're able to sort of simultaneously jump between what do I want, what do I care about, and how do I sort of understand the me that this other person is seeing, as well as who this person is, because that's a sort of paradox of self-awareness, the more self-aware we are, the more we can put ourselves in other people's shoes, which is very interesting.
5:46
[SPEAKER_00]: But it makes your breaks everything from the first impression that we have to, you know, in a relationship, the first fight or disagreement we have, we could blow the whole thing up, you know, it goes down in flames when really that wasn't our intention.
6:00
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think it's really one of those skills, I call it the meta skill of the 21st century.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's foundational to our success and our happiness in dating and generally in life.
6:10
[SPEAKER_02]: And you're basically touching upon this, which is what are some of the most common misconceptions about self awareness because to me that was mind blowing to even to know that the two aren't correlated the internal, the external I just always assume if you're self aware enough you know how other people perceive you so what are some the other myths and misconceptions.
6:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, let's get to the most uncomfortable one, and we'll just put it out there and deal with it.
6:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's go big first, so the biggest misconception about self-awareness is that we have it.
6:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Being a, so people that think they're self-aware generally aren't.
6:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that what you're saying?
6:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, that is exactly what I'm saying.
6:49
[SPEAKER_00]: And I have the science to back it up.
6:51
[SPEAKER_00]: So here's two data points that I think kind of say it all.
6:54
[SPEAKER_00]: What percentage of people believe that they're self-aware according to our research?
7:00
[SPEAKER_00]: 95% amounts of friends 95 out of 100 people would say yes.
7:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I am very self-aware.
7:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's so much And the actual number is about 10 to 15 percent.
7:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
7:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And how did you measure that?
7:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I don't know if there as a self-awareness nerd, that's a very loaded question
7:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe like the, like a real answer.
7:22
[SPEAKER_01]: As Tasha takes a sip.
7:24
[SPEAKER_01]: She's like, you ready?
7:26
[SPEAKER_01]: She's like, how much time do we have?
7:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe the condensed version will draw conclusions on our own that a lot more wanted to it.
7:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, so basically, there are seven types of self-knowledge that self-aware people have.
7:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Things like knowing our values, knowing our passions, knowing our impact on other people.
7:46
[SPEAKER_00]: And what we did was we measured people's self-assessed of each of those seven pillars of self-awareness, as well as someone who knows them well, that other person's assessment.
7:57
[SPEAKER_00]: And for them to be self-aware, they actually had to tick both boxes.
8:01
[SPEAKER_00]: So this gets back to that paradox of, you know, if we overestimate ourselves awareness, there has to be a check-in balance.
8:07
[SPEAKER_00]: And that was why they had to clear both hurdles.
8:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I have to believe that I know myself very specifically, not just in general, but like, do I have a set of values that guide how I live my life?
8:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Do I know what makes me jump out of bed in the morning and design my life to make that happen?
8:23
[SPEAKER_00]: A and then to someone else agree.
8:25
[SPEAKER_00]: So that it's a pretty down and truly process to measure that, but that's where I think we can draw some conclusions that are pretty astonishing, that it's not just most of us think we're self aware.
8:36
[SPEAKER_00]: 95% of us think we are compared to, you know, the delta, it means 80% of us are essentially lying to ourselves about whether we're lying to ourselves.
8:45
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a thing.
8:46
[SPEAKER_01]: So what's maybe like an example?
8:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I think this would help me just wrap my head around this too, especially in the dating and relationship context of someone that thinks they're self aware, but they're done.
8:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's, so let's make this interesting.
8:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll give you two archetypes.
9:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, no, I'll give you, yeah, I'll give you two archetypes.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm ready.
9:03
[SPEAKER_00]: on one hand.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Think about someone who is completely absorbed in their own internal experience and totally oblivious to the way other people see them.
9:14
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is the person I was watching.
9:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you guys have caught up on the latest season of Mrs. Mazeal.
9:21
[SPEAKER_00]: But you know, have it a little behind, but yes.
9:23
[SPEAKER_00]: So good.
9:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And she goes, I won't spoil anything, but she goes on and a date with this one guy who apparently lived in Spain for a year.
9:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And at the beginning of the date, he said that, like, I lived in Spain, and she goes, oh, that's interesting.
9:35
[SPEAKER_00]: And then it turns out that he starts talking in Spanish to Midge, who doesn't speak Spanish to the waiter, who doesn't speak Spanish.
9:43
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's the only thing he can talk about.
9:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
9:45
[SPEAKER_00]: So, and I just thought to myself, this is a perfect example of someone who has low external self-awareness.
9:51
[SPEAKER_00]: He is totally unable to read the room and the date goes miserably.
9:55
[SPEAKER_00]: She sends up using her phone call and someone invents a family emergency that you have to go home.
10:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
10:01
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's one.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I think we all probably have had that experience ourselves.
10:05
[SPEAKER_00]: But then the other side is just as interesting, although it's a kind of a different problem.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Someone who is so focused on what the other person is experiencing and what they want.
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[SPEAKER_00]: that they don't focus at all on what matters to them.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So they might try to seem a certain way to someone, but not really believe that themselves.
10:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, oh, you like to go off?
10:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I love to go off.
10:28
[SPEAKER_00]: The person doesn't like to go off, right?
10:29
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's a different problem, but those are both examples of what it looks like practically.
10:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And for the first one, you're probably gonna have a lot of first dates.
10:38
[SPEAKER_00]: And then for the second one, you might get into a relationship and things get serious, but then you might wake up one day, 20 years later, and say, this isn't what I wanted at all.
10:47
[SPEAKER_00]: This isn't right for me.
10:49
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's kind of both ends of the spectrum there.
10:50
[SPEAKER_01]: That's fascinating, because the first one I feel like is classic.
10:53
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I would have set if I was to think of an example.
10:56
[SPEAKER_01]: That person that talks to not stop throughout the day, and they don't realize they have had stopped to ask a single question.
11:01
[SPEAKER_01]: We've all been on that date, but the second one that you mentioned is interesting to me because I don't know if I would have correlated that with self-awareness.
11:09
[SPEAKER_01]: I would think it was more people pleasing or low self-esteem something like that.
11:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Like how does that correlate to self-awareness it's it's an interesting balancing act.
11:20
[SPEAKER_00]: It really is about understanding who we are and what we want.
11:23
[SPEAKER_00]: just as much as it is about the impression that we create with other people.
11:27
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think for a lot of people and by the way, the archetype that we use or that I use in my research is I call those people pleasers.
11:35
[SPEAKER_01]: By the way, I am one of those people.
11:37
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't know what color of new car I was going to buy several years back.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So I crowdsourced it.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I asked all of my friends what color car I should get.
11:45
[SPEAKER_02]: But I like couldn't figure it out myself.
11:47
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's not what we think of, but it's a lack of self-awareness and that it's not allowing us to make decisions in the spirit of our success and our happiness.
11:56
[SPEAKER_00]: And when we see ourselves clearly and completely and compassionately, you know, works and all, the good about in the ugly.
12:03
[SPEAKER_00]: That's when we are really, it's almost like a sweet spot.
12:06
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't totally neglect one of those two areas, but at the same time we can live in both worlds.
12:12
[SPEAKER_00]: What a lot of times, you know, they don't agree.
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[SPEAKER_00]: We might see ourselves in a completely different way than other people see us.
12:18
[SPEAKER_00]: But the important thing is recognizing it.
12:21
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's, I think, a really practical takeaway for all of us.
12:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, Tasha, here's another loaded question related to that, especially when it comes to dating.
12:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you think dating apps are playing into the lack of awareness of people?
12:32
[SPEAKER_02]: making them think that they have the awareness, because we always hear people don't know what they want, but dating apps force you to tell them what you're looking for.
12:39
[SPEAKER_02]: And at the end of the day, maybe we think we're so aware of what we're looking for, but we really don't know.
12:45
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'll just use a personal example.
12:48
[SPEAKER_00]: My husband on paper is not the person that I thought I would end up with.
12:52
[SPEAKER_00]: We hear that all the time.
12:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Right?
12:54
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's something about that chemistry where I think you're right if you exclude a whole, you know, type of person because you don't initially believe that to you want you're leaving it up to chance might you find the perfect person in in your you know created parameters maybe but is is a great person for you maybe outside of those parameters.
13:16
[SPEAKER_00]: I can say with a we say in science and and of one one person in the study.
13:21
[SPEAKER_00]: That was my experience.
13:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this is really fascinating because I think I've thought of people that are, I'm thinking of like the past partner of mine specifically, I thought he was extremely self-aware because he was able to see some of his faults and shortcomings very clearly.
13:36
[SPEAKER_01]: But he wasn't able to see the good that he brought to the table.
13:41
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's almost interesting that you're saying that self-awareness isn't just being aware of the faults, but it's how you show up as a whole.
13:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think a lot of daters that we see too don't recognize the catch they are.
13:53
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like, how can people start to look at self-awareness more holistically?
13:57
[SPEAKER_00]: that I'm so glad you asked that question.
14:00
[SPEAKER_00]: And for anybody out there dating, this is really important to keep in mind.
14:05
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, the worst thing that somebody could do if they decide to kind of take a self-awareness journey or begin or rebegin one is to only focus on our faults and our flaws.
14:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I see this all the time.
14:18
[SPEAKER_00]: I see this a lot, especially with female executives that I work with.
14:21
[SPEAKER_00]: They are super heroes.
14:24
[SPEAKER_00]: They're doing impossible things every day.
14:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Everyone's in all of them, and yet when you ask them, how's it going?
14:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that presentation to the board could have been better when really they nailed it.
14:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think the same is true with dating, right?
14:36
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't always see what a catch we are.
14:39
[SPEAKER_00]: So here's a really practical exercise that I think anyone listening to this could do in dating or in work or just in general.
14:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Is think of eight or so people, eight to 10 people, it's good to have more than five so you can start to see patterns.
14:53
[SPEAKER_00]: And open an email or a text and ask them, what is one thing that you see me doing that is really a foundational strength, right?
15:03
[SPEAKER_00]: So you can say, maybe for dating it's your friends, like when you've seen me out there,
15:08
[SPEAKER_00]: What am I doing, or what are you seeing that is something that's a strength that I may or may not see?
15:13
[SPEAKER_00]: And what happens is, as people start to respond, which they almost always do, very enthusiastically, because it's positive and they want to help, is you start to maybe see some things that either you were hoping came across to other people.
15:26
[SPEAKER_00]: or you never knew came across to other people.
15:29
[SPEAKER_00]: I've had, I can't even count how many leaders that I've coached, be like, oh, apparently I'm an amazing negotiator or, you know, whatever.
15:38
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's almost like we have to hear it from other people sometimes to believe it.
15:41
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, it's unfortunate, but it is what it is.
15:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's kind of one way to help ourselves see our own awesomeness.
15:47
[SPEAKER_02]: So once we figure out the disconnect, because I can see this in a dating scenario, I can see someone thinking, I'm a very good communicator.
15:55
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm very good conversationalist, but on dates, they're coming off as cold or stand-offish.
16:01
[SPEAKER_02]: So when we figure out the disconnect, what is that step to closing that delta?
16:06
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a great question.
16:08
[SPEAKER_00]: And the challenges we could go almost any direction with us.
16:13
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's very personalized to what you want to achieve.
16:16
[SPEAKER_00]: I do think that model of internal versus external self-awareness comes in handy here.
16:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Because, you know, at the end of the day, our things going the way we want them to go.
16:26
[SPEAKER_00]: If not, that is what starts us to along the process of saying, you know, I'm really finding this enjoyable and I happy.
16:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Do I feel like I'm ending up with the types of people that I want to be with that help me be, you know, my best me?
16:40
[SPEAKER_00]: If not, maybe there's some internal work that can be done of saying, what do I really want?
16:45
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, maybe what were the five things that the me of five years ago thought were important?
16:50
[SPEAKER_00]: That the me of now doesn't actually care about.
16:54
[SPEAKER_00]: or what how have my priorities changed, even that quick exercise could help us surface an actionable insight and how we're approaching our dating life.
17:04
[SPEAKER_00]: But then on the other side of it, you might also say, okay, if things aren't going well, is it because the other people are opting out of it?
17:10
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, am I getting ghosted or are people like not showing up to the second date?
17:14
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think if that's the case, that is a flashing red light to perhaps consider the impact that we're having on others.
17:21
[SPEAKER_00]: And here's a shortcut that I'll give you guys that has been helpful for me.
17:25
[SPEAKER_00]: We have these theories that were different people in all areas of our lives.
17:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, oh, I'm so different on the first date than I am in a meeting with my boss or talking to my parents or whatever.
17:37
[SPEAKER_00]: that we're usually the exact same person or a very similar person.
17:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Really?
17:42
[SPEAKER_00]: I can back this up.
17:43
[SPEAKER_00]: So every CEO that I coach, I interview sometimes up to 30 people, not just who work with them, but who have known them forever and or live with them.
17:54
[SPEAKER_00]: So this includes adult kids, this includes spouses, childhood best friends, family members.
18:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And it never ceases to amaze me that I hear basically the same thing.
18:07
[SPEAKER_00]: your team thinks you're kind of a jerk or like, oh, well, I'm only like that at work.
18:11
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
18:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh.
18:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Your family also thinks you're a jerk.
18:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think I'm hearing this save stuff.
18:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and of course, you know, it's not identical, but the beauty of that is if, you know, if you're feeling like you're not getting the results you want externally, there's no better place to look than the people that know you best.
18:30
[SPEAKER_00]: So they might be able to help you.
18:32
[SPEAKER_00]: You ask a couple of people identify, what is it that I'm doing to get in my own way here?
18:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Like what, you know, ask the people that you know support and love you and we'll tell you the truth.
18:42
[SPEAKER_00]: And you might get some new data.
18:44
[SPEAKER_01]: So one thing that you ate, I found really fascinating about your TED talk that you did.
18:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Your revelation was to shift from focusing on the why to the what?
18:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you go into that in a little more depth of why you think that's important for self-awareness?
18:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that I think is probably the second biggest misconception that our research found and no one was more surprised than me.
19:07
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a, there's a long history in self-awareness of assuming that the best way to know ourselves, like our underlying motives and thoughts and to your point, why we are the way we are, is to excavate our unconscious.
19:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And usually the way we do that is through questions that begin with the word why.
19:28
[SPEAKER_00]: I get in a fight with my husband, like I say in my TED talk about how to load the dishwasher.
19:32
[SPEAKER_00]: The question, introspectively, that I might ask with the best of intentions are, why are we always fight?
19:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
19:39
[UNKNOWN]: Why?
19:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Then I might get into this loop and here's what the research says and I'll just kind of summarize this and we can go into more detail if we want to, but there are two problems with those types of questions for self-awareness.
19:51
[SPEAKER_00]: The first problem is that we have a false sense of our own accuracy in answering those questions.
19:58
[SPEAKER_00]: So I might say, why are we always getting insights?
20:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And I assume that I can sort of go into that padlocked basement that is my, you know, true self and find the answer.
20:08
[SPEAKER_00]: All I have to do is open it and walk through the door.
20:10
[SPEAKER_00]: But what research shows time and time again is that we actually can't answer those questions.
20:16
[SPEAKER_00]: There's so many parts of our experience and our ourselves that are just not accessible to our conscious awareness.
20:23
[SPEAKER_00]: So what happens is we find an answer that feels true, but is usually wrong.
20:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Right?
20:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, the reason that my husband and I are always going to, and it's usually very, you know, dramatic and creative, right?
20:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, oh, it's because I fought a lot with my dad when I was younger.
20:37
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm replicating that same pattern.
20:39
[SPEAKER_00]: And sometimes there is truth to that, but the point there is that there isn't an answer.
20:45
[SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of times, just because it feels true, doesn't mean it's true.
20:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's where we can get off track, right?
20:52
[SPEAKER_00]: We start to follow this false lead, and we start to believe in, you know, it's end all be all nature when it really is kind of leading us astray.
20:59
[SPEAKER_00]: But the second reason asking why is dangerous is it leads us down the rabbit hole of remanation.
21:06
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know if you guys have experienced this, but every time I ask myself why,
21:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I end up with like the last statement is like because I'm a terrible person and I don't deserve to be and even like confidence, successful, happy people can get there and so that's where it sounds very surprising and it was a surprising to me is it sounds why questions are not the route to self-awareness.
21:29
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like the WebMD model, right?
21:31
[SPEAKER_02]: You can say like, I have a sore throat and then, and of the day you're like, I'm dying because that's what WebMD is telling me.
21:37
[SPEAKER_02]: So what we're saying is it's interesting, we can be curious about the why, but more importantly, it's the what?
21:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Like how are we going to move forward from this?
21:47
[SPEAKER_02]: So how do we use the what in our framework, I guess?
21:52
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's, yeah, it's exactly what we discovered is the difference.
21:56
[SPEAKER_00]: It the huge difference it makes in asking what questions versus why questions.
22:01
[SPEAKER_00]: So at first, we thought this was just a, you know, like a fluke.
22:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, all the self-aware people are starting with what instead of why.
22:08
[SPEAKER_00]: But as we got into it, we really saw the profound difference.
22:12
[SPEAKER_00]: So if I go back to my example, I'm pointing at my dishwasher,
22:16
[SPEAKER_00]: with my husband we get in this fight.
22:19
[SPEAKER_00]: I could ask why are we always getting in the same fight or I could ask one of the following and this is not a complete list.
22:25
[SPEAKER_00]: What part of that did I own?
22:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Or what in that situation told me that things were going wrong in the conversation?
22:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Or what can I do differently the next time we're in that situation?
22:38
[SPEAKER_00]: And the difference there is
22:44
[SPEAKER_00]: we're trying to find a pragmatic way forward and to find solutions and to be empowered to take action.
22:51
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, it's true that I think we should be curious about the why, but there's a humility in what software people do, which is they say, you know, I might not ever know why, but that doesn't mean that I can't have insight moving forward.
23:05
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's the biggest thing is insight moving forward is far more valuable than insight from the past.
23:12
[SPEAKER_01]: I like this idea of how do we merge the Y in the what, because I do think the Y is valuable in the sense that it gives you explorations of all the things that may be going on.
23:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll use an example ghost dig right when you get ghosted.
23:26
[SPEAKER_01]: You could just jump to there's something fundamentally wrong with me.
23:29
[SPEAKER_01]: or doing the why you can explore maybe this person isn't ready for a relationship, maybe they got back together with their acts.
23:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Like there's all these different things, but to your point, what I'm hearing and I agree with is we may never know what that why is and is that actually even helping us?
23:45
[SPEAKER_01]: So in that example with ghosting, how could you reframe that to make it actually beneficial to you without necessarily thinking that you're just doomed?
23:55
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a great example.
23:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Here's what I would do.
23:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I think in situations like that where we have, you know, we feel like we have zero information about what made that person do, whatever it is they did.
24:07
[SPEAKER_00]: It can be helpful to try on different perspectives.
24:10
[SPEAKER_00]: So what I would encourage somebody in that situation to do is to say, what are five different reasons,
24:19
[SPEAKER_00]: And it doesn't matter what the right answer was.
24:22
[SPEAKER_00]: The important thing is that we're getting perspective to help us see the context, right?
24:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, maybe this isn't because I'm a fundamentally undatable person, right?
24:32
[SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, maybe it really is crazy for them at work.
24:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, that is a distinct possibility.
24:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Or maybe they just kind of out of a relationship and they're not ready.
24:40
[SPEAKER_00]: But all of those help us see that, you know, it isn't, we're not wrong.
24:45
[SPEAKER_00]: There's something wrong about the situation
24:48
[SPEAKER_00]: and indictment of us.
24:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's a huge difference.
24:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I really like that over even the Y, even though we've been saying the Y because I feel like it does get you out of that rumination loop that you mentioned.
24:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And I love this, what are five reasons?
25:02
[SPEAKER_01]: So you still can explore, which is essentially what the Y was doing before.
25:06
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not taking that away from anyone.
25:08
[SPEAKER_01]: We're almost like time boxing it, so you don't go down that spiral.
25:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Is there a way to say like a what that can help you move forward with it?
25:17
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm trying to think of like something that would inform our action.
25:20
[SPEAKER_00]: So the next time I am, you know, on a first date or the next time my things are going in the right direction, what are the signals that I might look for, you know, that would suggest we're not on the same page.
25:34
[SPEAKER_00]: It's focusing our attention.
25:36
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not necessarily, we don't even have to necessarily radically change our approach.
25:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Right?
25:41
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the important thing to remember that we've found about self-awareness is its incremental.
25:46
[SPEAKER_00]: So we shouldn't put the pressure on ourselves to wake up tomorrow and be a completely new person.
25:51
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not feasible.
25:53
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not kind to ourselves because there's no way anyone could do that.
25:57
[SPEAKER_00]: So even something as small as setting a goal in this, in this, you know, next series is next round.
26:03
[SPEAKER_00]: And what am I going to, what am I going to pay attention to and what can I learn?
26:06
[SPEAKER_00]: And maybe even what can I learn from this is another great one.
26:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I like that because it's forward thinking.
26:11
[SPEAKER_02]: And think it's not trying to get to the answers like you said that we may never get to.
26:16
[SPEAKER_02]: And the why kind of makes you look backwards.
26:18
[SPEAKER_02]: at, ah, that could have gone better or I should have noticed that, but moving forward and thinking about the what you're thinking about the next time in this situation, what is it that I can look forward to do better?
26:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
26:31
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a great time to bring in a truly profound thought that I recently learned from my friend Marshall Goldsmith, who's, you know, number one leadership thinker in the whole world.
26:42
[SPEAKER_00]: He talks about this concept of every breath we take, we are
26:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm, and at first that sounds kind of simplistic, right?
26:51
[SPEAKER_00]: But as you think about it, what he talks about is, you know, how could I, the me of right now in this moment, fault the me of a month ago, or a year ago, or five years ago, for their choices, right?
27:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Every time I get up in the morning, I'm a new me and I can become whoever I want to be.
27:11
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, within reason.
27:13
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think there's something really powerful about that for dating.
27:17
[SPEAKER_00]: It helps us move forward with intention and insight and not needlessly beat ourselves up, because we're not that same person anymore.
27:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
27:27
[SPEAKER_00]: It really profound stuff.
27:29
[SPEAKER_02]: That is really fantastic to hear.
27:31
[SPEAKER_02]: And even speaking about that, which is something daunting about self-awareness and getting to be more self-aware.
27:38
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the fact that we are constantly evolving and changing.
27:41
[SPEAKER_02]: So yes, I could be very self-aware who I am today.
27:45
[SPEAKER_02]: But do I have to be always this active, in my self-awareness activity to stay as self-aware as I want to be?
27:53
[SPEAKER_00]: That sounds exhausting.
27:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I'll be the first one to admit that it is not a crime to make things easy for ourselves.
28:02
[SPEAKER_00]: So the first thing I think we have to do is recognize that this is a marathon.
28:07
[SPEAKER_00]: This isn't like, oh, if I just do this and this and this, I will be self-aware and I'm done.
28:14
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really inspiring to me to learn about the daily habits of self-aware people.
28:20
[SPEAKER_00]: These are not people who are spending hours every week in therapy, as an example.
28:25
[SPEAKER_00]: These are people who are more likely to find small, almost seemingly insignificant insights in their day-to-day life that add up over time in really incredible ways.
28:36
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think there's something where if we can take that pressure off ourselves of like, oh, I have to increase myself awareness by 50 percent.
28:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And instead, just have, I call it a braver, but why is our mindset, which is curious.
28:50
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, no matter what I know about myself, I may always be surprised by something new.
28:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Positive or negative, but the beauty is, I know.
28:57
[SPEAKER_00]: And knowing is always better than not knowing, because when we know, we can choose.
29:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there was the quote that you had at your TED Talk that touched on this so well it was from Rumi that was yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world.
29:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Today I am wise so I changed myself and I love that quote so much and what you're saying here of just how do you get a little better every day?
29:21
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't need to be these drastic steps.
29:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Why do you think though, you know, taking ownership for yourself opposed to just looking at the world and dating culture as an example protected to dating is so important?
29:35
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think it's even more important in general in every era of our lives including dating.
29:42
[SPEAKER_00]: And it fundamentally comes down to how do you see your role in your own life?
29:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it one where you choose or is it one where choices are made for you?
29:55
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's not, you know, obviously the answer is both.
29:59
[SPEAKER_00]: but there's an empowerment and kind of a sense of self- just moving forward that self-aware people have.
30:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Where they say, okay, I can't control everything and it would be delusional of me to assume that I could.
30:11
[SPEAKER_00]: But in this lane, the lane of me, where every day that I wake up, I can be a new person, I can choose what I want to work on, I can choose what I want to let go of and ignore.
30:22
[SPEAKER_00]: That seems to me in this crazy and complicated and chaotic world,
30:29
[SPEAKER_00]: control over.
30:29
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, it's true for dating.
30:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I think we all have friends on both sides of that spectrum.
30:34
[SPEAKER_00]: One is like, I'm going to get out there.
30:36
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to keep trying and I'm going to learn and the other is like dating is a total scam.
30:42
[SPEAKER_00]: I've never done it again and you know, it's rigged and whatever.
30:46
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think who gets to make that choice?
30:49
[SPEAKER_00]: At the end of the day, even if it doesn't feel that way, it's us, we get to decide.
30:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and what if okay, so I'm just going to speak to the extreme here because I remember when I was dating I saw a profile of someone writing this is what they put in their bio.
31:02
[SPEAKER_02]: I am self-aware that I am an asshole.
31:07
[SPEAKER_02]: What do we say to people who are aware of their whatever state state that they're in?
31:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe they're an asshole.
31:15
[SPEAKER_02]: And they're like, I'm okay with that.
31:17
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm gonna stay this way because I get to control my world and I'm gonna control the fact that I am an asshole.
31:23
[SPEAKER_02]: What do we say to these people?
31:25
[SPEAKER_00]: These people, I came up with a very technical term for, I call them the Aware Don't Care.
31:33
[SPEAKER_00]: They still have the self-awareness problem, don't they?
31:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Because they know they're an asshole, but they really probably don't fully appreciate how much it's limiting them.
31:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And if they do and they don't care, that's really kind of a very special different type of person that you probably wouldn't want to date.
31:49
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think either way, everybody makes their own choices.
31:52
[SPEAKER_00]: And the beauty of being braver but wiser is you say,
31:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, how nice for you is not my job to make you realize what an unbelievable jerk you are.
32:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Keep doing that if you want to.
32:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to devote this energy to my own happiness.
32:09
[SPEAKER_00]: That is, I think the most powerful choice we can make.
32:12
[SPEAKER_00]: People ask me all the time, how do I make, you know, whoever, you know, my spouse or my wife, you have to get another more self-aware.
32:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Can we do that?
32:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
32:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Will we be able to do it in any, any given situation?
32:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe.
32:23
[SPEAKER_00]: But the success rate isn't high.
32:25
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's where I come back to spend that energy on yourself, to forget wasting it on other people.
32:31
[SPEAKER_01]: So, Turo, you're talking about the two types of people.
32:34
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the ones that are focused on themselves and how can I like continue to grow from the
32:40
[SPEAKER_01]: and then the others that are, you know, quick to blame the abs, quick to blame the other people, quick to blame their city, insert whatever external that you want.
32:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, there's a little piece of me that dies every time I hear about just like how the apps are out to get them or how dating culture they're just giving up because of it.
32:59
[SPEAKER_01]: But I also recognize that when you're in the thick of it, it can be really difficult, especially when you feel like all the cards are stacked against you.
33:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Or maybe you feel like you've done a lot of self work.
33:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe you feel like you've been in therapy, and you're like, why will this ever click?
33:15
[SPEAKER_01]: How can people still start to take that ownership without feeling like, you know, dismal and doom that they've done at all?
33:24
[SPEAKER_00]: I love that question, and it actually, I'll take my scientist hat off and put on my human hat when I, which I do from time to time, when I was in, I was 26.
33:36
[SPEAKER_00]: I just got out of graduate school.
33:38
[SPEAKER_00]: I was in my first like big, important Fortune 500 job, and I was like, I'm going to find someone.
33:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I sort of didn't like my options at the time.
33:47
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't remember exactly what I concluded, but they were not
33:50
[SPEAKER_00]: positive.
33:51
[SPEAKER_00]: So I did not intentionally, but in hindsight, I think I can learn from myself in the past, I did the opposite.
33:58
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was like, I'm going to get someone and I said, no, I am not going to try at all to find someone.
34:04
[SPEAKER_00]: And coincidentally or not, I'm not sure.
34:07
[SPEAKER_00]: That was literally when I met my husband.
34:09
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's pretty great.
34:10
[SPEAKER_00]: So, there's something to that to me, and I haven't thought about this question until you just asked it, and I think it's really great in almost doing the opposite.
34:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, if we are so dissatisfied with the approach we've been taking or what's been happening, ask ourselves what would be the opposite.
34:27
[SPEAKER_00]: And maybe just to be safe, we put a time clock on it, so we say for, you know, for 30 days, I'm going to stop looking, and I'm going to do something to help myself.
34:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Or if I've been using one app and I hate it and it's out to get me, maybe I suspend my profile and I go onto a different app.
34:42
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think there's a lot of different versions of what that could look like, but maybe that's something to try is when we're so dissatisfied that we feel like giving up maybe try the opposite behavior.
34:50
[SPEAKER_01]: lot, so it doesn't have to be, let's say, so extreme that I need to alter my whole personality, or, you know, come up with this piece of what's busy.
34:59
[SPEAKER_01]: It's more of just how can I know myself and what's burning me out and what's exciting me, and that's a way of looking at self-awareness into how can I shift what I'm doing.
35:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's exactly right and I would even say the journey of self-awareness can almost be thought of as a series of small experiments and it just takes the pressure off.
35:19
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't have to figure everything out.
35:21
[SPEAKER_00]: That would be boring actually if we woke up one day and we had all the answers.
35:25
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's just, you know, what would it look like if I improved my self-awareness by 1% every, you know, whatever, month, week, year, right?
35:33
[SPEAKER_00]: It adds up over time.
35:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Is this safe to say that everyone can work on their self-awareness?
35:37
[SPEAKER_00]: I think almost everyone.
35:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you work on it.
35:41
[SPEAKER_00]: There was that set for you and Ruby.
35:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, fortunately for me and Ruby, and by the way, I have just as much, it's not more work to do than anyone else, and that's one thing I've learned.
35:51
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, if you are not a clinical, narcissist, for example, somebody who just is
35:59
[SPEAKER_00]: We've all met those people and, you know, is it possible for them to change?
36:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
36:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it less likely that they will probably less likely?
36:06
[SPEAKER_00]: But for most of us, the size of our transformation is only limited by our commitment and our creativity and our openness.
36:15
[SPEAKER_00]: So again, I come back to this.
36:18
[SPEAKER_00]: It is the most empowered thing that we can do to improve our self-awareness in my opinion.
36:22
[SPEAKER_02]: You say something at the top of this episode that I still want to revisit here, you said the more self aware we become, the more we're able to put ourselves in other people's shoes or something along the lines of that can you kind of explain what that means.
36:35
[SPEAKER_00]: So a good way to think about this would be, you know, if you're having an interaction with your significant other.
36:41
[SPEAKER_00]: or if you're on a date with a new person.
36:43
[SPEAKER_00]: When we're truly self-aware, we understand what we're bringing to the table.
36:49
[SPEAKER_00]: In other words, how can I connect with this person?
36:53
[SPEAKER_00]: And how can I share the parts of myself that are the most mean?
36:58
[SPEAKER_00]: And knowing that, in some sense, allows us to focus on the other person.
37:05
[SPEAKER_00]: So it allows us to, instead of, you know, proving how smart we are, how successful we are.
37:10
[SPEAKER_00]: We just are.
37:11
[SPEAKER_00]: We love our entire selves and we're honest and we see ourselves as clearly as we can.
37:18
[SPEAKER_00]: And that lack of something to prove, I think, or trying to make the person do something that, you know, isn't appropriate for the moment.
37:27
[SPEAKER_00]: That is what allows us to say, you know,
37:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Tell me, what are your hopes and dreams?
37:32
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think anytime we've had an interaction with the really self-aware person, we come away with the sense of, like, I feel so seen.
37:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, right?
37:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
37:41
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's the paradox is in seeing ourselves clearly, we can actually start to see other people clearly as well.
37:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Because we're making room for other people in our mental space.
37:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my gosh, I love that.
37:53
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna steal that without permission.
37:56
[SPEAKER_01]: So what are some other ways then that self-awareness can show up in more committed relationships when you have this other person by your side?
38:04
[SPEAKER_00]: The so here this is very specific but hopefully it's it's food for thought.
38:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the longer we're with someone, the more conclusive determinations we make about who they are and who we are and who the relationship is.
38:19
[SPEAKER_00]: And there are times when that can be helpful,
38:24
[SPEAKER_00]: You always do this, right?
38:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Like every time this happens, you do this.
38:29
[SPEAKER_00]: And we get trapped in these cycles.
38:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And the more we can be open to not only am I a new person with a rejoice I make, but potentially my partner is, I think it's a mindset of finding new information, not just in ourselves, but in the relationship and in the other person.
38:46
[SPEAKER_00]: It can be, I think, the difference between something falling apart or even stagnating
38:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Hmm, I'm gonna ruminate on that one because I don't Ruminate reflects.
38:58
[SPEAKER_02]: I just had this conversation with my partner.
39:01
[SPEAKER_02]: I like you always forget what I say If the worst memory, you know what I said now I'm thinking back well, maybe it's just like the I'm looking for evidence to support that But the next steps is okay.
39:14
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm aware that this is something that triggers me what are some ways that I can
39:19
[SPEAKER_02]: help with the information and communication so that it's no longer about his responsibility to remember, but our responsibility as a team.
39:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, I'm gonna think about it.
39:30
[SPEAKER_00]: I could not love that more, and I think that was a perfect example of the shift.
39:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
39:35
[SPEAKER_00]: That's self-aware people experience, right?
39:37
[SPEAKER_00]: You are no longer waiting for him to get his act together.
39:41
[SPEAKER_00]: whatever that looks like, whether whether or not it's true, but you're taking ownership.
39:45
[SPEAKER_00]: And even this is what's interesting.
39:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Even if it's not successful, at least right away, or on your first try.
39:50
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a different feeling that I'm doing something.
39:55
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing something, and that in and of itself is huge.
39:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And you use the what instead of the why?
40:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
40:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Extra bodice points.
40:03
[SPEAKER_02]: I learned that from this
40:09
[SPEAKER_00]: That's so good.
40:09
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, yeah, the student has become the teacher.
40:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it's sensei.
40:12
[SPEAKER_00]: So if people want to get to UA's level of software, just what are some little twists into this over?
40:15
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
40:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I was going to ask you what are some stuff people could take every day, but maybe that's one of them.
40:28
[SPEAKER_01]: But I would side of listening to this podcast on repeat, which we encourage you to do.
40:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, what are we going to prove our down low numbers?
40:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Just keep listening to this every single day.
40:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Whatever, most downloaded episode we've ever done.
40:40
[UNKNOWN]: Good.
40:41
[SPEAKER_01]: What other tips would you have for people?
40:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I could just get that, you know, 1% better each day.
40:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me give you two and they're internal and external focused.
40:51
[SPEAKER_00]: I know, but wait, there's more.
40:53
[SPEAKER_00]: So the first, the first is internal.
40:55
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is something that we saw in almost all of the people that we studied that weren't just highly self-aware, but who had made really big improvements in their self-awareness over time.
41:05
[SPEAKER_00]: And as I mentioned, they weren't spending hours a week in therapy.
41:09
[SPEAKER_00]: They were doing some type of daily practice where they essentially, you know, maybe it was when they were brushing their teeth at night or when they were working out at the end of the day.
41:19
[SPEAKER_00]: They asked themselves some form of the following three questions and I call them the daily check-in.
41:24
[SPEAKER_00]: So the first question, keeping it very focused, is what went well today?
41:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Second question?
41:29
[SPEAKER_00]: What didn't go so well?
41:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Third question, how can I be smarter tomorrow?
41:34
[SPEAKER_00]: or insert whatever word speaks to your heart.
41:38
[SPEAKER_00]: And that helps us build that incremental awareness.
41:41
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think if we go back to this concept of self-awareness as a series of small experiments, it starts to really show what we can learn on a daily basis.
41:51
[SPEAKER_00]: I tried that one thing with my partner who we can't communicate about this one issue.
41:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Didn't work.
41:56
[SPEAKER_00]: What can I try tomorrow?
41:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
41:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe that one, right?
41:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
42:00
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's the internal piece.
42:01
[SPEAKER_00]: The external piece.
42:03
[SPEAKER_00]: This is not for the faint of heart.
42:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh-oh.
42:04
[SPEAKER_00]: But I would never suggest anything that I haven't done first and foremost multiple times myself.
42:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
42:10
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's something that I've named the dinner of truth.
42:17
[SPEAKER_00]: The first time I heard what this exercise was and it was created by a communications professor named Josh Meizner.
42:24
[SPEAKER_00]: I had the same reaction you guys just did.
42:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, oh, that can't be good.
42:29
[SPEAKER_00]: And here's how it goes.
42:30
[SPEAKER_00]: So he has all of his undergraduate students.
42:32
[SPEAKER_00]: You find someone who your relationship with them is important and you want to improve that relationship.
42:38
[SPEAKER_00]: You invite them to dinner.
42:39
[SPEAKER_00]: You ask them the following question.
42:41
[SPEAKER_00]: And you do not in response give any justification, defense of it is anything.
42:45
[SPEAKER_00]: You just listen.
42:46
[SPEAKER_00]: The question is, what do I do that is most annoying?
42:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh-huh.
42:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
42:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
42:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Is that before the answer?
42:55
[SPEAKER_02]: I just like question.
42:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's up to you.
43:01
[SPEAKER_00]: You can kind of get into it, but I think it's good to be like, I want to ask you a really important question.
43:06
[SPEAKER_00]: And they'll be like, ooh, what is it, right?
43:09
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's different ways you can have that conversation.
43:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Some people who might be introverted might want to think about it first, that's fine.
43:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Some people who are extroverts might be fine to kind of lay that on them right after the entry is served.
43:22
[SPEAKER_00]: So use your knowledge of the person, but get the answer.
43:25
[SPEAKER_00]: What do they think that you're doing that's most annoying to them?
43:29
[SPEAKER_01]: What is it about annoying?
43:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Like what made you choose that word over something else?
43:34
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a great question.
43:35
[SPEAKER_00]: So I can't speak for Josh.
43:37
[SPEAKER_00]: He's very explicit about that word, but I'll tell you the reason I think it's helpful is it helps us discover the lowest hanging fruits of self-awareness.
43:46
[SPEAKER_02]: That's true.
43:46
[SPEAKER_02]: That makes sense.
43:47
[SPEAKER_00]: That makes sense.
43:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
43:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow, that should be a reality TV show.
43:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Dinner of truth.
43:52
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, that's a great call me, I'm just saying.
43:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you could survive the dinner of truth, you could survive anything.
44:00
[SPEAKER_02]: You want $1 million.
44:01
[SPEAKER_01]: That should be like a blind dating exercise.
44:04
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just everyone lines up for the dinner of truth.
44:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Speedy shit.
44:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh my gosh, I watched that.
44:10
[SPEAKER_02]: I definitely watched that.
44:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I might not be on it, but I'd watch it.
44:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, this has been such a fantastic conversation.
44:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I have so many takeaways.
44:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the first is we are going to be shifting our language is what is happening at modern data.
44:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And what can you do to date better opposed to, why are we dating the way we do?
44:31
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's one thing, and I like this balance of exploring the possibilities of what could be happening, but also being okay that you may never know and just moving forward.
44:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And that kind of brings me to the second takeaway I had.
44:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Just throughout this whole conversation, how much trial and error went into everything you said?
44:51
[SPEAKER_01]: It was like, okay, well, if
44:53
[SPEAKER_01]: This doesn't work.
44:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll try this.
44:55
[SPEAKER_01]: If this doesn't work, I'll try that.
44:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's such a better mindset.
44:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes it's hard to say, Oh, just be positive focus on the good things.
45:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's a better mindset than ruminating about the things you can't change like the dating apps or your city or all the externals that are usually the go to's.
45:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And my other takeaway with self-awareness is it's not that you have to change something fundamentally about you as a person, maybe it is if you do dinner of truth and you find your annoyances, it can't hurt, but it also could be as simple of just reflecting of how you're feeling in different moments.
45:34
[SPEAKER_01]: and it doesn't have to be all or nothing either.
45:37
[SPEAKER_01]: It exercises we've done in some of our programs.
45:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes instead of saying, okay, I'm going to delete this dating app entirely.
45:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Let me check in with myself and see when I feel the most excited to use the dating app.
45:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Versus when I'm dreading it.
45:50
[SPEAKER_01]: So it doesn't need to be these drastic shifts.
45:53
[SPEAKER_01]: It can just be these little tweets.
45:55
[SPEAKER_01]: in trial and error to understand what's serving you the best and how can you continue to focus on what's serving you and minimize what isn't.
46:05
[SPEAKER_00]: That's amazing.
46:07
[SPEAKER_02]: The three big takeaways for me, one is I feel like we've been stuck in this self-awareness, hamster wheel for too long, where we're taking all these assessments and personality tests and we even look into astrology.
46:21
[SPEAKER_02]: But then
46:25
[SPEAKER_02]: I know this about me.
46:26
[SPEAKER_02]: I know an anxious attachment style.
46:29
[SPEAKER_02]: I know that I have this sort of schema.
46:30
[SPEAKER_02]: I know I'm this in Myers-Briggs, now what?
46:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think this conversation helps us to move forward with that now what this information is power, but we need to be able to use this power to become better versions of ourselves.
46:45
[SPEAKER_02]: I also love this idea that the more aware we are, the more peace it brings us.
46:51
[SPEAKER_02]: the way you were describing this to us where you can see the other person more clearly is because we stopped the mind chatter when we know ourselves and how many of us have been on dates where we totally do not remember what the other person said because we were so concerned with what we were going to say, how we were being perceived, what information we need to give that we walk away only knowing more about ourselves.
47:13
[SPEAKER_02]: and not the other person.
47:15
[SPEAKER_02]: And with dating it's so relational with other people that I think the more self-awareness we get, the more we're able to see other people clearly.
47:23
[SPEAKER_02]: The third takeaway is I have my own journal, but I write my own prompts, but I'm adding these three prompts to it, what went well, what didn't go so well, and what can I do a little bit better tomorrow?
47:34
[SPEAKER_02]: That's going to be really helpful for my journal, so I hope everybody
47:38
[SPEAKER_02]: can add that to their journal prompts as well.
47:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I love how simplistic that is, too.
47:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
47:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Times, you know, they're so extravagant that you're like, ah, I don't even know where to start, but this is just a good way to get the foundations.
47:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's nothing right or wrong with any of it.
47:52
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just that 1% every day.
47:54
[SPEAKER_00]: That's it.
47:55
[SPEAKER_00]: And make it sustainable.
47:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't stack the decks against yourself.
47:59
[SPEAKER_00]: I think we do that often with the best of intentions.
48:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I want to be the the most best that I can be as quickly as possible when it's really I can run hundreds of miles over time if I do a little bit every day.
48:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much Tasha.
48:14
[SPEAKER_02]: If people want to learn a more about you and get a whole of the books that you've written, where should they go?
48:20
[SPEAKER_00]: So what I've learned is it's not really about me.
48:22
[SPEAKER_00]: It's about you guys and your listeners.
48:25
[SPEAKER_00]: So one thing that we put out with the release of my book Insight on all of these findings was a five minute self-awareness quiz.
48:33
[SPEAKER_00]: And you go in, it's a subset of our much, much longer, much, much more boring assessment.
48:38
[SPEAKER_00]: that we used in our research, but it's 14 questions you fill it out for yourself.
48:42
[SPEAKER_00]: You send it to someone who knows you well and they fill it out and you get this really nice kind of high level picture of yourself awareness plus a couple of really specific things you can do based on your results to improve if you want to.
48:54
[SPEAKER_00]: So if anybody wants to take that, it's at www.insight-quiz.com.
49:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Awesome.
49:01
[SPEAKER_00]: We will link it also.
49:02
[SPEAKER_00]: They can get in the rabbit hole of
49:08
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to do that assessment too.
49:10
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you haven't done so yet, subscribe to the psychology of relationships today.
49:15
[SPEAKER_02]: So you don't miss an episode.
49:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Bye.